Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%
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Tony’s Guests:Lacey Kruger & Misty McLaughlin: IA & UX: Information Architecture & User Experience
Lacey Kruger, lead information architect at Blackbaud, and Misty McLaughlin, the company’s principal user experience consultant, have lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success, so visitors return and supporters stay engaged. Recorded at Blackbaud’s bbcon conference last October.
Scott Koegler: Tech Trends
Scott Koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News, tells how he sees nonprofits using computing to fulfill unique needs; engage through social networks; and customize their own computing.
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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host it’s february first twenty thirteen we have the campaign for five hundred stars going on, i want to mention it now mentioned also at tony’s take two if you go to my blogged twenty martignetti dot com, you’ll see the campaign video you’ll see the rationale laid out it is basically to extend the reach of the show so that mohr charities khun benefit as i picked the experts, brains were trying to get one hundred ratings on itunes, and hopefully they’ll be five stars. There’s your five hundred stars campaign, please rate the show in itunes. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d be mortified to learn that you had missed grantwriting revealed iana jane hoexter was with me for the hour, she’s, the author of grantwriting, revealed twenty five experts share their art, science and secrets. We talked about researching relationship building, writing and why you can’t polish a turd this week, i and you ex information architecture er and user experience. Lacey kruger lied information architect at blackbaud and misty mclaughlin the company’s principal user experience consultant have lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success, so visitors return and supporters stay engaged that was recorded at blackbaud sze be picon conference last october and tech trends. Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, tells how he sees non-profits using computing to fulfill unique needs, engaged through social networks and customize their own computing. And as i said on tony’s, take two between the guests, the five hundred stars campaign. Right now, i have the audio from my interview at the blackboard conference, and the subject is information architecture and user experience. Here’s that interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of pecan twenty twelve. We’re outside washington d c at the gaylord convention center. My guests now are misting maclachlan she’s, principal user experience consultant at blackbaud and lisa kruger. I need information. Architect at blackboard. Ladies. Welcome. Thank you. Like it’s. A pleasure to have you both. Lacey, i have to ask you, what does a lead information architect do for a big company like blackbaud? I work with non-profit clients of all shapes and sizes at two. Really? Follow-up help create a intuitive structure for their content, so organizing the information they present on the website in a way that people that are using the website can understand it. Okay? And that really is sort of the definition of information architecture is this putting content together so that it’s argast to itiveness usable use your friendly all concerned about the user experience, right? It’s a it’s, a blueprint for a non line experience so it’s the structure of the information okay? And you’re topic that we’re talking about is getting your priorities straight. A guide to successful information architecture, misty let’s. See what? What’s the what’s the first idea that you have around information architectural start basic and we’re built for move up. Excellent. All right, so in my presentation, i outlined sort of a top ten list, like any good late night talk show host, anything that you can be doing, things that non-profits typically get wrong on websites, and i would say almost everything on my list more than half of the non-profits that we work with just get it wrong. So the number one thing that that i would say most non-cash labbate fail at and that’s, the most important online for kind of creating an effective experience for bringing people in and getting people to stay on their website, is articulating their mission in a really short, compelling, concise way that’s almost of the level of the vision of the organization. It’s, what is the social problem that we’re trying to address and what is our particular impact or approach on the world? Hyre we responding to that? What charity is doing wrong around around this? Well, typically, organizations have their mission. They know what their mission is. They want a present too much so they either air on the side of your five senses from my annual report, i’m going to put that right on my home page, which no one can read it super text heavy it boggs people down, people just don’t even see it or they just go for a tagline that might be cute, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t really talk about what the organization is doing, how they’re changing the world so particularly a new visitor coming into a website, they just can’t figure out if they’ve landed in the right place. People just lose tons of new traffic because they’re really true. You are the right size. They’re not even shit. Well, they mate, they made sort of think ellery, this organization has something to do with what i’m after, but it doesn’t seem like they’re really kind of making an impact or this isn’t necessarily the cause that i want to learn more about. I want to support so a lot of the time, if somebody’s coming to you through a google search, you don’t clearly articulate your mission. Just don’t get another chance, lacey. Now, in the last last session, i just learned like boxes. Sure, you both know, like, is this appropriate for for a light box on? Why don’t you explain it like boxes? Because everyone listening to this may not have heard the others weinger light boxes. This is totally just a neophyte question is a light box an appropriate place for you’re it’s, ice efficient state after you tell us what? Like boxes. Okay, so light boxes. It’s. Kind of a non obtrusive papa buy-in. It allows the user to see the content behind the papa. So it interrupts the experience with the message that the organization wants to get across. But you can still visualize what? Behind the message. So it’s really easy. Tio, click out of it and dismiss the message. A shaded bok’s ship you could see behind. Exactly. Yeah, my ideal fight question is, is that is that compelling? Is that compelling enough for light box? Having this concise, efficient, i would not suggest it. I think a lightbox a better use for a light box is something that has a specific action. You want users to take something like donate now or you take action or fill out this form or something. And with learning about the organization learning about their mission you really want them to explore. And, you know, click around and read different stories. You have, you know, it’s not just one thing. It’s it’s. A multitude of different inputs experience so it’s okay, if people have to click to find concise mission statement mr was talking about he used you said he wasn’t such a deal. Fight question. Maybe it’s important enough that it rises to the level of light box. But i understand it does well, where should it be? It should be something that comes across in the home page. So one of the things that we do is is way gauge a user’s reaction to the home page. So we show a home page to a user. This is a usability test. We show them the home page, and we say, what adjectives would you use to describe this page? And if those adjectives match your organization’s mission and your messaging, then you’re in good shape. But oftentimes they don’t that’s a basically a focus group for the home it’s. A usable yeah, basically it’s, a usability test, and you can do it online. So it’s, really quick, and you don’t have to get people all in the room together. That sounds a little sophisticated, but a small and midsize charity could probably do something like that. Maybe in a board meeting or a maybe they do host a little event or something like that if they don’t have in other words, if they don’t have the wherewithal to create something online. Is that is this doable in our little round table or something? Sure, another great place, great free place to get input from your users is your social media channels, so you could you could publish, you can publish a test like this for free online, and you can post a link to it on facebook or twitter and then people that are following you there can that conflict to it? Doesn’t your users so it’s a great freeway to recruit people to help? Okay, this deal will come back. You know the number to now. I know you don’t listen, do you know the same number ten? But mr knows it’s a top ten list presley roughly. Yeah. So what’s your throne. Another one. Whether whether it’s number two or not. Well well, never. Alright s o a few others but i think are worth mentioning. Wanna? Storytelling. One of the most important things in an organization could do is both tell and show the impact of its mission. So showing can happen in a couple of different forms, something like an infographic. We’re showing a few key statistics for those kind of analytical thinkers. Those people who are considering making an investment in the organization who want to know what kind of an impact you’re having. Something like an infographic on the home page that says we provide vaccination for fifty percent of the world’s children. That something unicef does powerful number that can visually represent that, in a way. That’s, really compelling talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? 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And when lacey and i talked to our guy notations and we actually go out and talk to their audience, the number one thing that people say they want more of universally stories, it’s stories that helped him get a feel for the emotional impact of the organization and make them connect to it. What are some of the best ways of telling these stories? Well, personal profiles are one way, and the organization could really kind of find a few kind of two faces and a few key stories. Another great way is actually to get people whose lives have been transformed to tell their own story and that’s. One of the ways the web is really powerful, that you can really solicit content from people who were personally involved are helped by the organization and get them to tell the story of what? Happened? How their life has changed as a result of it. Lacey telling it in what format? A week. Talking about video or its print or it’s all these or what? Video video is a great option. I think i think it’s important to have the text as well. The text as the substance of the story, but video. You know, if you have some video testimonials, those can be very powerful tools you do need you do need something to draw somebody and to make them want to watch the video. So it’s kind of a lot to ask for somebody to click and watch an entire video about something. But if you give them a preview of it and make them, you know, compelled toe watch it than video would be a great way to tell the full story. Do you have a place around? How long? Something like this should be a way to talk about drink this two or three minutes too? Increase the viewers or fifteen, ten, fifteen minutes? Yeah, i mean, i was short is better. Our attention spans are not what they used to be. So shorter is always better, i think. All right, so another, aside from sharing impact and outcomes, vividly least he wanted to give us another another idea around information architecture. So one idea that that we see a lot of is organizations that structure their content like their organization and structure so they, you know, they organize it by department four in-kind, you know, a different division that the organization works with, and while that makes a lot of sense to the organization and they can each kind of own a section of the website, it doesn’t make sense for their users. You know, i don’t know what your marketing department does versus your fund-raising department and i don’t i don’t really care, i just care kind of what are you doing on the ground? So i think i think, you know, using structures and labels that resonate with your users and not not necessarily your internal stakeholders users need to come first in their perspective, okay, how do we figure out how are users are thinking about our organization? Information should be yours, there’s various ways to research that on there’s some low cost ways. We’ve talked about smaller non-profit so i’m just talking to people. And asking them kind of what they think. There’s a there’s, a research technique called card sorting that you can present teo users a basically a set of cards with kant, the types of content you offer so these stories would be one of them, you know, news articles would be another one, events would be another one, and then you ask them to group things to group the content, according tto what makes sense to them, and then you can use that to really guide this structure of your website. Okay, is that where you want to say about that? Argast there are a ton of using research methods, and i think that this kind of gets to the heart of what user experience is, which is that we really take the approach that an organization has goals they want to achieve online, but the only way they’re going to do that is if they begin from the place of their audience. So they really research and map out and understand who these folks are. Lacey and i often develop personas, which are kind of detailed portrait of the major audience groups that our organization is trying to reach. Online or offline? And try to really understand what it is that’s driving and motivating that particular type of person and that tell me, organize content, we create an experience, okay, let’s, talk about it. This is interesting personas are hypothetical ideal oppcoll what do you know about these? Look what you create about. So we really try and make that a storytelling exercise, which is a demographic information with kind of fundamental it’s also attitudes, motivations, perceptions, behavior, schools, it’s sort of all the reasons that someone might be seeking out your organization, or that you might be trying to get them to be aware of who you are so they can also be aspirational. It doesn’t have to just be people that you’re reaching today, it could be people that you’re really trying to seek, but you failed to be able to connect with well, what’s great about personas is that they give you a framework kind of strategic, audience oriented framework as an organization to get your marketing department on your fund-raising department and your programs, folks all organized around the same type of folks, so that not just your website but you’re offline communications your email. Marketing their social media presence all of that is organized around this theme for audience groups it’s a really good internal tool for building consensus and getting people on the same page. Excellent. And i want to remind listeners that i had a guest. James is your tronvig group his work is around marketing. I talked a lot about building these personas also to some live in unconference i don’t remember the date of that show can can access it, but look for james on the block search for him as a guest, fine, very similar conversation, what we’re talking about right now creating these hypothetical personas, and he talked a lot about involving the board yes, especially in the aspirational persona, anything anything you want to add in that respect so it’s part of our process is that we begin with stakeholders, and we like to begin from the kind of all the way from the bottom, all the way to the top of the organization and everything so board is really critical, particularly board, because they removed from the day to day operations of the organization a lot of the time. But then the web folks with customer support people who answered the phone and they hear the kinds of complaints, but they really know who these folks are because they’re talking to them. So really at all levels of the organization trying to get stakeholder employed and then help people to kind of organize around these personas, including the board, because it can really shape the board’s vision of who you’re going after. Khun really molded it could be a tool for getting boardmember all on the same page with each other. Hoexter lacey let’s, go, teo. Another another good practices. Wait. Let me ask you for that either of you, major in information architecture is is such a major where? Yes, i am saying yes to you might not believe it, but i have a master’s degree and information architecture and usability. Okay. Yes. So there is a program out there in the online world. And i’ll just say it comes from the discipline of information science. So that’s, you know, organizing libraries, organizing videogames, organizing any place that’s an information or an interactive space. These kinds of principles apply. You could really learn a lot there. So that’s, the kind of background that i come from lacey comes from an interactive advertising backgrounds second, tell us where your master’s degree program hey, someone’s grief, they’re interested in such a degree. University of texas school of information how did you become an information architect? So i was an advertising major at the university of texas, and they had an interactive advertising sequence that was just a special series of classes that i took. And so that was the beginning, and then i did, you know, i worked in an ad agency for a while and then moved into the non-profit space that khun vo and and really worked with misty teo, develop our methodology around design and really dive into the information architecture. So anything so it was a slow transition on when i graduated in college in interactive was so new that there weren’t really information architects. So as soon as that niche kind of created itself, i found that that was where my home was. That was where i was meant to be. So i fear that all these years i’ve been mispronouncing the name of your former company convoy, and he wasn’t wrong via can be another reason it’s convenio and not cardio. It’s a schwab. They go back like fourth grade english and my homeroom teacher talking, you know, like more than a second green. So suave officials have you? Yes, i think that people sometimes go for they reach for convict. And so con vo seems like a natural stress, but actually in english. Apparently i’m married to a linguist way. Put the stress on the second to the last syllable in many cases. S o convene. Okay, that would be the italian pronunciation to yeah, very common with italians. Have accent on the second last that’s, right. And so in latin. Convenio means with vision and that’s where the name came from that’s how the founder information architect married to a witness. It’s true snusz lisa let’s. Talk about another. Another good practice in information architecture s o so one of the ones that comes to mind is creating a visual hierarchy. So on your home specifically one identify what the key points, the key messages you want to convey. So, like misty talked about earlier, your mission and vision should be number one on that there’s also, probably some actions that you wantto encourage from your home page. So i think that having a visual hierarchy that it’s basically a design principle that ensures that the big key salient points are what stands out visually on the page so they might be, you know, a different color, they might just be a graphic on next ism text, but the visual hyre he is what conveys to users look at me first, look at me. Second, intel is that kind of guys there experience around a page, okay? And you would develop that screw you users talking to users about how they are going through your sight versus how you’d like them to be going through your sight, or or do you do it more based around the way they’re doing so, whether you want them to or not? So the the inputs are both from the users and from the stakeholders. So our job as information architects is really to combine those two sometimes distinct set of needs, so the stakeholders wanted communicate x, y and z and the users are looking for, you know, a b and c and so it’s it’s a meshing together of those two things that that designates what the visual hierarchy should be. And that that’s sometimes a balancing act, but usually usually stakeholder messaging. What the organization wants to convey kind of comes first because it’s like this, this is what we want you to get across. Can i add one thing there? No dahna wrapped it up. It was perfect that your colleague is given insufficient explanation is that way work together a lot. So we tend to tag team this morning because of course, you’re welcome way often use web analytics data, i think one thing that’s hard, right? If you talk to people, people can often describe their attitudes and their motivations, but they don’t really know what they’re behaviors are there just sort of predicting? I think i would act like this. So analytics data is a really great kind of hard metric sort of way to look at trends and how people use an information structure, a website. What do they really interact with? What are they seeing? What are they not even saying so a lot of the time, you know, the kind of piece of this that we can bring in addition to research we really do with the audience surveys, that sort of thing. Is a really behavioral picture of how people are using the site, and that helps to really inform ways that we think people will use it what we can do with it. Okay, what are some of the ways that we influence? How they move through the site because it is simple is fun size? Lacey mentioned color it is simple in these things visual priority top to bottom orientation. Navigation is obviously the primary tool that people used to traverse when they’re really looking for something to move in and out of a website, you can do a lot that’s really powerful with having really strong navigation devices, um, and then they’re just a variety of ways that we can provide pathways into the content so you can throw all your content up there, and some people think that’s the solution that more is better, lacey and i really take the approach that more, more is not necessarily better if you have a ton of content, what you’re trying to do is move people strategically down paths towards the content that they’re looking for and that helping a lot of klicks is not necessarily a bad thing, but that used to be kind of the common wisdom with the web no clicks, you know, you really want people to get everything from the home page, but actually what people want is to feel like they’re on a journey towards the thing that they’re looking for, that they’re making progress, and if you can help them do that, they don’t actually mind moving around to find the thing that they want. Ladies, i’m going to guess that you have a lot of frustration as you you navigate the web, whether it’s, charitable or run or you’re not charitable sizing goto, who means a lot of frustration, there’s frustration, but there’s also a lot of inspiration. Um, i would say, you know, i didn’t major in information architecture, er and the majority of my training and education about this has been my own experiences online, so i learned a lot from other sides, you know, when i’m looking for something on amazon dot com and i confined it like that that’s something that i’ll take with me in translate to what we’re working on. So there’s good and bad there’s definitely some poor experiences out there, but there are good ones. Too wanted to share. What is it you love about information? Architecture works. I would say it’s very creative without being visual you create on it allows me to really kind of use my let to think about how things should be organized. And, um, you know, the graphic design part of it is is very important. But i think separating the information side of it from the graphic side of it allows for a bigger picture and allows for a cleaner in solution. And i think there’s also just so many facets to information architecture’s. So we designed the navigation structures and the way the continent looks on the page. But we also designed back in data structures and how a gn administrator would put the content into the system. So it’s just a big universe of on a different types of work. And it keeps things interesting and dynamic all the time about you. What i love about this work, we just have a couple of seconds. Yes. So i would say good idea is like a good therapist. But it anticipates your needs before you even know that you have them sometimes that it gives you something. That you may not be able to get anywhere else. And then it sort of satisfies you in a way that keeps you coming back again and again. So i like helping people get what they want and get their needs. Recession was getting your priority. Street guy, too successful. Information architecture. Christine mclaughlin is principal user experience consultant. Blackbaud and lacey kruger is lead information. Architected blackbaud you are listening to twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty twelve, thanks for being with us, durney. Thank you, my thanks. Also to the people at blackbaud who helped me that october day last year, especially melody mathos very helpful that day and everybody else’s blackbaud right now, we pause for a break, and when we come back to tony’s, take to the five hundred doors campaign and then scott koegler on tech trends, stay with me. They didn’t think that sending the good ending. Ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. Nothing. 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Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hi there and welcome back it’s tony’s take two roughly thirty two minutes into the hour, the five hundred stars campaign i’m hoping to get the goal is one hundred readings on itunes, and of course the hope is that they’ll be five stars. Our five hundred stars campaign why am i doing this? What’s the what’s the case for support, as fundraisers would say it’s to increase the visibility of the show so that more non-profits can listen and benefit as i picked the brains of my expert guests that’s it you’re helping the charity community nationwide start at non-profit radio dot net, and from there, click viewing itunes or you could just go to itunes and search for the show name. Either way, i’d be grateful for your help. Very grateful if you would rate the show in itunes and five stars would be terrific there’s a campaign video on my blogged and this is all explained there, but you don’t have to go to the blogged just just jump to itunes and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, february first, the fifth show of the year scott koegler is with me now, he’s the you know who he is? He’s the non he’s the editor of non-profit technology news he’s, a regular monthly technology contributor on twitter, he is at scott koegler konigstein are scott kottler welcome back. Thank you. Tell me, how you doing? I’m doing terrific. Get that down. Good. Thank you. You do too. We’re talking this this month a little about trends, trends that you saw in two thousand twelve as the editor over there at non-profit technology news. What did you see? Well, you know, there’s always a lot of things going on in one, probably non surprising thing was the increased use of social media. It’s just, you know, it’s almost a given that non-profit i need to participate in social media just like you’re doing, tony, you know, with your itunes and your show and the kind of things were there, but the corollary to that is that people are looking beyond the social media and beyond the traditional methods of getting together, which and that’s, really the more surprising to me is that there was a break from social media into more traditional meaning. Face-to-face or letter writing or what phone calls? What? You mean? Yeah, well, hit one of them, actually, but i throw out six things. I’m bound to hit something was about to hit a target with one shot. Yeah, phone calls, for instance. You know, i used to be that before social media before even all that kind of thing really depended on paper mail and phone calls, you know, if you had paper mail that was kind of general, but if you needed quick responses, if you needed to actually get a message to someone personally was phone calling dahna so as we start to move away from that and rely on facebook and twitter and those other kinds of things, it’s pretty easy to discard the more traditional methods of contacting folks. One of them is the phone calls. And you know, if your constituency is large, obviously making phone calls to the entire, uh, donor base or a participant bases is pretty impossible. That’s impractical. Maybe so we’re seeing we’re seeing more activity. And what phone trees. You know, the thing that churches and schools used to to contact the people? No one like when there’s a snow day like a snow. Day he’s like that, so they’re using. So you’re seeing you’re seeing non-profits enlisting volunteers to use in phone trees? No it’s, thie automated phone trees more often, you know that still technology hyre honor requires, you know, prior set up, but we’re finding that that that the phone is, you know, one of those ways that needs tio needs to be used sometimes, okay, are there are there providers that you’re aware of that that are good in automated phone tree work? You know, i don’t know who they are. We’ve had comments from a couple of, uh, back-up couple of non-profits that have used them, but my understanding is that the that they are locally based a lot of times, and some of them are actually equipment that you install so there’s a variety of things if you have a question about it, my my recommendation is going to go to your local church and ask them what they’re using because they’re probably have one installed somehow, okay? So going backwards in technology to get attention because people have been abandoning the phone just like they’ve been abandoning hand written notes exactly and there’s a couple of reasons. Aside from just you know, you want to contact somebody but one of the organizations that we talked to, uh, those events and, you know, there’s a change in the weather and you need to contact folks email is really not always going to get there. Not everybody has seen on their smartphone. Not everyone has a smartphone, and so being able to contact folks as there may be getting ready to go out the door it’s really important. So that’s, why the phone tree but there’s also another piece to that, and that is along with the fact that people you can’t get too may not get to email right away or in some cases again, depending on who your audience is may not even have e mail, and that is the text messages. And again, there are there are providers that can do what’s equivalent to an email blast by text message again that requires having at all set up and having your you know, your text, your phone number’s already installed and ready to go. Um, the text messaging is one of those very immediate contact method. So again, do you have a the event, the weather? Changes. You need to change the location or tell people that has been called off. Text messages is one of those not quite as retro as telephone. Direct telephone contact. Sure, but it’s, you know, it’s. Another another method. Ok, yeah, if you if you know your constituency has the has the technology. Um, i see text messaging, you know, going back to the phone. It’s. Interesting. I own a home in in north carolina, and the police department there uses automated phone tree to alert us to incoming bed whether hurricanes, there was a rash of burglaries in one neighborhood, not my neighborhood. Of course we’re we’re we’ll secure. I haven’t, you know? Yeah, but some in one of the lesser neighborhoods in that town, the police were saying that there have been burglaries people had been. And they got to the level of saying that the burglars were getting in a lot of times through the garage garage doors being left open. So, you know, they got to that level of detail in aa in a in our automated phone call. So you know, there’s a there’s, a town government using it and not a big towns small. Town north carolina? Yep, yeah, those technologies kind of reach everywhere, so and so wrapped up in what we’re talking about is figuring out what what is what makes sense for your you’re non-profit and your constituents, whoever they are you trying to reach exactly the point, tony it’s uh, not not all constituencies have, you know, our enthusiastic facebook users. So, you know, some are some, aren’t i, uh, i know that some of us older folks, you know, just don’t always live and die by facebook, so wei need to have other methods and, you know, not just older folks, but, uh, it really just depends. I mean, think about the disabled community, you know, they may have special, special needs in terms of being reached, you know, if you have a i don’t know death community, you know, you need some other way than just telephone, so lucy need the enhanced telephones. So now i see why you unfriended me on facebook you’re using this opportunity using this platform that i give you as as a way of explaining to me why you unfriended me on facebook, i guess because you don’t use it very often, right? So you figured, you know, i have tony as a friend as well, unfriended. Co-branded yeah, sorry, all right, um, but ok, so you’re a former ceo, chief, information officer. How do we go from recognizing what our needs are specific to our organization and finding the technology that’s going toe? Help us fulfill those needs? Good question, but then that’s what your baby, i try. It’s really a kind of a multilevel approach. First of all, you got yeah, you really have to think. I mean, hopefully, if you’re if you have a constituency, you have been able to connect with them. I mean, that’s kind of the whole point, and so you have some basic understanding of what their needs are, right? So so you need to just think about that, you know, how how do these people communicate? How what do i see when i when i talk with them, what do i experience when i’m when i’m with them? And of course, one another way that is maybe not quite so obvious is actually ask them, yeah, certainly would like to be communicated with, right? What? How did they get messages? Have a talk with people that are important to them to find that out on dh, then kind of pursue the the resolution for that just to research again, asking maybe other non-profits you know, a lot of intelligent non-profit activity out there, you might have, you might have expertise on your board, correct possibility if there’s a marketing communications person or if there’s a technology person um what’s your what’s your sense of, you know, technology consultants? I mean, are there people who who think broadly about technology or there, or there only consultants who work in phone trees or social media or, you know, other other other specific areas? Uh, yeah, of course, there are people who work only in specific technologies that generally called sales folks. Yeah, and, uh, you know, there are consultants to deal in social media and unfortunately, no that’s become kind of a commodity kind of a thing. I i saw a survey recently were there were, um just the term social media consultant has has become meaningless because everybody is one. Yeah, yeah, i see that i’m not on the more important way to go about it is to find find somebody who does consult on a broad range of of issues and isn’t really focused on anyone. Technology, uh, isn’t being paid to promote one specific thing, not not to put down social media experts, but it’s really it’s become a catchphrase? Yeah, that not everything is social media. You know, it’s, not the whole world. On twitter, i see so many people who call themselves social media either experts or gurus. Oh, yeah, guru is just so become become so ubiquitous that it is meaningless now, and i think every it seems like so many people who are just users of social media consider themselves now gurus and experts. So if you are looking for somebody in that area, you know, make sure they’ve been doing this for, you know, i mean, social media, ten years or so, ten or twelve years, it goes backto old social communities, there’s more than just facebook and twitter in social media, you know, early blogging was is certainly social media, so you want somebody who has, who has a breath of experience and many years, and i personally i tend to stay away from the people who are self proclaimed gurus. Um, i’m just kind of off the topic, but there is another way to check that out and to find out if somebody is, in fact, a social media guru, and i don’t really mean that. I mean, i mean, if they’re well connected and that’s really more important than being, you know, any particular label, i think we talked about this before there’s a site called clout k l o ut yes. Right? And it, uh, it takes a kind of a broad perspective. It is still based on social media, so it, uh, it takes into account traitor twitter, facebook, google plus link, then foursquare, youtube, the flicker, you know, all kinds of things, and it measures your influence of anybody’s influence on, um, you know, on those different areas. Yes. Okay, so you can pretty easily go on to clout and find find somebody’s measure, in fact, okay, hold that thought. We’re going to take a break right now. Scott will come back, and we’ll continue talking about clout and measuring the influence of the gurus. Stay with us. Snusz you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back. We’re talking technology trends with scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find at n p tech news. Dot com scott, what were going to say about clouds? Cloud is again a measurement of the social media in foot, right, quark, a variety of places. So what i was going to say was let’s, check tony um, and but you know what, tony? I did, and for better or worse, you and i have an equal score of fifty nine that’s humiliating to me what you’re equal to me. Yeah, because you said you don’t even use facebook thing is rigged. Forget cloud, alright, everybody listeners ignore what everything said everything that god said about cloud because it’s it’s clearly a charlotte in sight, it doesn’t doesn’t know what he’s talking about no it’s k l o ut clout, dot com and that’s interesting scott that we are that we’re equals it is and you’re not even trying. I know, i know, but you know just let’s. Look at the score for a second. Okay, fifty nine is actually not bad. Oh, they give you a rating for that fifteen out where it stands. You have fifty nine. I mean, if you just look at kind of the general, um, the seventy is like, almost the top of the rank really is for seventy is really, really good. Eighty is like superstar, um, fifties is, you know, is pretty good. So, you know, actually a fifty nine or sixties is actually you and i, tony, are among the influential gru’s there’s that word in social media. So without without really talking about you and me as we were talking about gurus and health, that term has really kind of become irrelevant. You can look at a sight like cloud, and there are a couple others that i can’t remember. They’re kind of up and comers, the cost been around the longest of those and so eh, it’s, war, you know above fifty is actually pretty good. Okay, so that person would have some credibility in social media, right? But and that’s a good way to check out somebody if they say they’re grew. Just put their ideas in cloud and we’ll see if they got a twenty five they want yeah, right. That’s, that’s. More like your grandmother, right? Grandfather’s? Exactly. Right. So we have a few more minutes left. What do you see coming as a trend in twenty thirteen or and maybe beyond, you know, specialization. I think the whole issue of using existing applications and existing tools in ways that they were designed, um, is what everybody does. The what’s coming now is using tools, system’s, applications, methodologies in new and different ways that we were not originally intended. Is what’s happening next? I think you know the phone tree. Text messaging. All those kind of things are becoming more and more viable again after all this time. Text messaging blast. You mean so right? Ok. Anything more specific that you can say about what you want? Oh, let’s, try it this way. What would you like to see? What would you like to see that’s not out there? I would like to see more, more personalized connections again if we just take text messaging, for instance, with email. If you’re sending out an email blast to your constituency, most email systems allow you to insert their name. You know, some information, all right on the flight. So it looks like it’s personal, even though you really know that it isn’t. But it would be nice to have that kind of capability with text message, even though they’re very short. Hey, tony, you know, i hope we show up today. We changed the location. Make sure you get the right place. You know, that kind of a message would be nice to be able to do, um and it used to be i think that text messaging in particular was kind of frowned upon because it was because it costs. The receiver money, and that hasn’t really changed except that now most phone plans include some number of text messages in their plan, so it’s a little bit less onerous on the recipient. Okay? And i think it’s always smart if you’re going to do that to offer a way of opting out absolutely no block, text block or text opt out or something back, and then the person is saying, i don’t want to incur the charges for any future messages that this center would might might send to me, right and that’s that’s the personalization. And along with the personalization is the method of contact when you sign up for a service, a lot of, uh, a lot of the services will say what? How would you prefer us to contact you? My voice by email, by text, whatever it might be. And so those kinds of personalization services can really go a long way too, you know, kind of solidifying that that connection between you and whoever it is that you’re trying to communicate with you. Okay, well, we’ll look for more, more personalization. Anything else you want to wrap up with? Scott? No. Tony let’s, let’s. Get out there and boost our krauz scores. Yeah, well, seventy to me especially. I just i don’t know. I don’t know whether you should be elated to be at the same score i am. Or i should be very disappointed to be at the same school you are. But something definitely is off to look into this more. Okay, thank you very much. God good to talk to you. Take care. He’s the editor of non-profit technology news again at n p tech news dot com and he’ll be back next month. Next week professor john list from the university of chicago on the value of lead and matching gift in your campaign. And chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud has lots of ideas for increasing your matching gifts. So we have some research people next week, but don’t worry, i’ll keep the keep to talk straight forward and relevant, not not academic and pedagogical. Sorry i couldn’t send live listener love this week. You know, i love to do that a few times a show, but this show was pre recorded. We’re all over the social web facebook, youtube, twitter linked in four, square and still on ly tied with scott on cloud, i’ll pick one of those out facebook. You can sign up for weekly email lorts there be the first one to know who the guests are for that week and what the hell while you’re there, why did you like the page? See us on facebook. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, and it shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Remember the five hundred stars campaign, please go to itunes. Great, the show, one to five stars. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one, two, two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting, which is at talking alternative dot com. I think that’s. A good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. 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