Welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the podfather of your favorite hebdominal podcast. Last week was show number 725. If your aptly named host wasn’t so lackluster. He’d have reminded you last week that we’ll celebrate our 750th show in July. Tragic. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be forced to endure the pain of exophthalmus if I saw that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer Kate to tell us what’s coming. Hey Tony, this week we have Consider video. There are lots of video use cases you may not have in mind, like employee recruiting, donor stewardship, and volunteer recruiting and thinking. After you identify how video might work for your nonprofit, you need the right equipment, which doesn’t mean spending a lot. Then there’s preparation, shooting, and editing. Pat Taggart makes each step very doable, so you can realize the full potential of this powerful medium. He’s founder of Sky Blue Creative. On Tony’s take 2. Nonprofit radio’s response to the new administration. We’re sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, DonorBox.org. Here is, Consider video. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome Pat Taggart to the show as founder and chief creative at Sky Blue Creative. Pat uses his skills as a documentary filmmaker to create fresh, exciting content that moves the needle for organizations of all sizes. He educates leaders on how to use video to attract and engage employees and customers alike. Pat is on LinkedIn and his company is at sky Blue Creative.com. Pat Taggart, welcome to nonprofit Radio. Tony, thank you for having me. I’m here in the city of Philadelphia where I know we kind of share some common roots, all that, you know, you maybe weren’t born here, but you went to school at Temple, I just learned. I did, uh, off mic, yes, I went to Temple Law School 1992 graduate. I used to live at, uh, I lived in, uh, pretty close to the campus, uh, Broad and Gerard, Gerard, just scratching the surface of just getting into North Philly Broad and Gerard, right? 12 I think it was 1220 North Broad as a matter of fact. Right on. You are in the city. Well, I know this is not a sports podcast, but I have my Eagles hat on. Our Eagles as we’re recording this, are gonna be in the Super Bowl this weekend. So hopefully, Broad Street will be full of Eagles fans come Sunday night. I’m sure, yes. I, uh, uh, a very poor sports, uh, with, with very poor sports understanding, recognize the importance of, uh, The Super Super Series, Super Bowl, Super Bowl, not Super Super Bowl. That’s the World Cup, World Cup, World Cup of not doing the World Cup Series. We’re in the Super Bowl here, sir. Uh, OK. The Eagles and, uh, the Kansas City Chiefs who have won enough. That’s what I’ve heard. Even I am aware that, uh, people are tired of seeing. The Chiefs, uh, in the Super Series, so, or Super Bowl. So, um, good luck, good luck, Philadelphia. Thank you, sir. The Eagles. All right. Video, we’re talking about video. You like to think about video, you’re documentary filmmaker. Uh, talk to us about now. Our listeners are all in small and mid-size nonprofits, so we are not gonna have large video budgets, which I know is not a, a problem for you, uh, and for your, your style and thinking, um. Let’s talk about just basic principles. But, you know, it’s like, give us some, some familiarity with your, your style, your thinking around video. Sure. So, as the story goes, I was 22 years old, fresh out of college, and my career as a sports broadcaster lasted about 4 months. And so I started a wedding video business and very quickly realized nobody gets married Monday through Thursday. Let me find something to do with my time during the week. The natural progression was corporate video for both for-profit and non-profit companies. And so I went out, met these really engaging people, and then we’d put them on camera and everything, Tony, would completely fall apart. These very engaging people with, you know, all of a sudden it looked like for the lack of a better term, a hostage video. They’re sweating and they’re stuttering, and they look scared to death. And I said, my gosh, we have to figure out how to make these videos better or this career is gonna be very, very short-lived. And it really came down to two things. First was we were making people stare into the lens of a camera, and for almost everybody, that’s very unnerving. But secondly and most importantly, we were scripting people. And the fact is that the story already exists in every nonprofit on the planet, there’s a great story and the story exists in the folks that founded that nonprofit and the folks that make that magic every day, and of course in the minds and hearts of the people that they’re helping. And so every second that you spend scripting content for video, you’re actually doing a disservice. For the final product. What you need, instead of being word perfect, is to be genuine, and it’s very hard to do that when you script yourself. I, I admire that. Uh, I, I use that in, uh, in, in my own practice, you know, be genuine in, I’m a big advocate, uh, in the consulting I do and plan to giving fundraising of handwritten notes you in a little card. You don’t need an 8.5 by 11 sheet to be genuine, sincere. Right? Heartfelt. You can do that in a couple of sentences. Sincerity comes across when, but, but uh, but now convert that to video, uh, we’ve got a camera in front of us and the, the same reason that I don’t like, well, podcasting, you know, we’re using mics, mostly the reason I don’t like scripted questions is because they lead to scripted answers. So I appreciated for instance that you did not ask me for a list of questions, which I would not have given you. I, I politely decline every guest that asks that because scripted questions lead to scripted answers. And I would like to have a conversation with folks. I would like to draw them out about their expertise, maybe some personal things as well. And uh so for all those reasons, uh, I’m, I’m, uh. Simpatico with your overall thinking about being genuine, sincere. So, Um, how do we start to, so let’s start to pull on some of these threads. How do we avoid, uh, a hostage video? Uh, if we’re gonna shoot video, there has to be a camera or a phone or some device. I see over your, uh, over your shoulder, you’ve got a fancy looking camera, handheld device, right? That’s for your documentary style, you can walk with people through the hallways and Like, uh, SUV, whatever that is, that kind of stuff that’s exactly what that is like a handheld unit. That’s called a 4D, but the, the, the point of it is it’s, it’s kind of an all in one camera that’s built in for tracking. Um, but what I often tell organizations is don’t get wrapped up too much in the technology. Yeah, we don’t need no, no, you do not. You certainly don’t. And what I will tell you, which is very exciting for everybody except for me. Um, is that the cell phone in your pocket? It is better than a camera that I spent $7000 for about 10 years ago and now can’t sell. So that’s wonderful news, right? Hold it, hold it up. It’ll be an archive, a museum piece. That’s what it is. You can donate it somewhere for a big charitable deduction in 30 years or something. I don’t even know if I can donate it at this point. It kind of breaks my heart. Obviously my fault, right? I missed kind of the cut off on that. But that cell phone that everybody has in their pockets, the folks that are running and working in nonprofits, you could be using that today to be able to produce content. Technology is no longer the barrier. In fact, you spend about. 100 bucks or maybe even less on Amazon and pick yourself up a stabilizer for that camera. So like a, a little tripod that your phone will fit into, a, a basic light and a microphone that interfaces with that camera, you’ve really up the production value. And it’s not thousands anymore. It’s like 100 bucks, right? And so that’s no longer the barrier. That used to be one. The other barrier, of course, that everybody faces is, oh, I don’t like the way that I look or sound. I cannot put myself on video. I can’t ask the people in my organization to put themselves on video. I hate my voice on video. I hate my face. That also doesn’t hold water because it’s the same voice and face that you use on Zoom calls like we’re doing now. It’s the same voice and face that you bring into in-person meetings when you meet with donors and you don’t think twice about it. So, If you don’t like the way that you look and sound on video, just don’t watch it. The content’s not for you. If you’re producing content to consume yourself, you’re probably a sociopath, and we have a way bigger problem than video. So create the content, put it out in the world, never watch it, problem solved. All right, that’s very thoughtful. Um. How about, uh, something out another thread you mentioned, you know, everybody gets nervous, nervous in front of a, right now let’s say we’re just in front of a phone on a simple tripod, it’s ourselves or our program staff or maybe the folks that are benefiting from our work, you know, maybe we’re trying to get some candid interviews at. The animal shelter at the food pantry for folks who are willing, you know, wherever we might be. How do we overcome this nervousness? Uh, that is, is, is natural. Yeah, a couple tips for that. So, first of all, remember that it’s not live. If you go into a meeting and you’re only coherent about 10% of the time, chances are whatever your objective was going into that meeting is not going to be achieved. People are gonna think you’re either crazy or incompetent or some combination of both. However, if you take 10 takes of something that you want to put on video and you only get one right, well, the rest of the world is only gonna see the one that you did correctly. And so you had a 90% margin for error. And nobody knows it. So take the pressure off yourself and just feel free to experiment knowing that you’re the only one that’s going to see your mistakes. The second thing that I would say, and it goes back to earlier in our conversation when I talked about how unnerving it is to stare into the lens of a camera, maybe do some stuff documentary style, which is looking slightly off camera. So right now I’m looking directly into the lens of my camera. If I just shift my eyes. A couple of inches, and I’m having a conversation with somebody else. Even if you’re just looking at the wall and there’s nobody there, then for you, it’s much more comfortable not to have to look into that lens, but also for your audience, they feel like they’re dropping in on a conversation. They’re privy to something, you know, as a third-party viewer and they’re not being directly marketed or sold to. So the way that they received the message is a bit more comfortable as well. So shifting your eyes a couple of inches can really help with some of that nervousness. Or coaching others to do the same. You don’t, you don’t have to you don’t have to look at me as I’m holding the, you know, because we, again, you know, maybe we’re interviewing staff or beneficiaries of our work, you know, you don’t have to look at me. You can, you can look at, look a couple of degrees away. And that may, that may make you more comfortable. Look at you. Look out over the animals that we’re talking about, right? Look out over them and I’ll just be recording you and you don’t have to worry about it. All right, all right, um, what about scripting, so you’re, uh, for very good reasons, as I said, I’m, uh, sympathetic to, uh, avoid scripting, but then how do we know what to say? what do we? How do we prepare to, to make the points or to have others make the points that we would like them to make, but we haven’t written it out. Well, one big distinction is unscripted doesn’t mean unprepared. So if you’re gonna say we’re gonna create a video, what I often like to call a brand story, or we’re gonna tell the story of the company, if my company was going to do that. We would have a strategy meeting with the folks in that nonprofit and say, hey, let’s talk about your story. Tell me what makes you unique. How do you do things differently? What’s your purpose? Why do you love the work that you do? Who do you help? How do you help them? We have to be educated on that and then myself as the interviewer sitting in the seat across from the people that are on camera, I’m not gonna hold a list of questions, right? Because I’m gonna try to give them the same energy that I want in return and just engage them in a really, really authentic genuine conversation. And we might film with 6 people at that nonprofit and each of them might be in the chair for 15 minutes, right? So you’re talking about an hour and a half of content. For what might ultimately wind up being a 3 minute video. And so, The goal there is to collect a whole lot of clay and then to take the onus totally off the organization to try to put something like that together. The onus should be on us to find that story. Chances are if people are working at a nonprofit because they have a heart for that and a talent for the specific roles that they play at that organization, they may not be storytellers and that’s OK. You should never put that pressure on yourself if you’re not. Find somebody that can help you shape your content and you brought up budget earlier. If it’s not someone like us that’s been doing it for a very long time. Maybe you can find an intern, maybe you can find somebody fresh out of school, but there are people that have these specific skills that know how to do this. So don’t struggle to try to do it yourself if you know that’s not in your toolbox. That’s excellent advice, uh, around, uh, having a volunteer or an intern, uh, especially younger folks may be very acquainted with, you know, a video editing app. Uh, you can do you can do, you can do pretty robust video editing right on your phone if you have, I mean, I have an iPhone, that’s, that’s what I know. I don’t know Android, but, uh, I imagine it’s similar, uh, but you don’t even have to just, you know, you, you don’t have to be limited to that. OK, you know, you make a very good point. You know, uh, you remind me too of my, uh, stand-up comedy days. You, you walk off stage and I would think, oh shit, I forgot to say I, I forgot this bit I wanted to do. Nobody knows what you didn’t say. So your point, nobody knows about the 90% that uh is, is edited out. They know that they know the 10% that you did. Hopefully I did more than good, 10% good. So I was doing stand up, but, you know, nobody knows what you forgot, what you left out. So don’t worry about that part. That’s such a great point. And you’re exactly right about that. And the other mistake that people fall into all the time, Tony, is trying to fit everything into a video. Man, if we’re gonna talk about our nonprofit, they need to know everything about us. No, they don’t. They don’t need to know everything about you. They need to know what’s really important and it doesn’t need to linger any longer, then it’s totally relevant and interesting to them. And so these videos never exist in a vacuum. It’s not like someone’s gonna see a video about XYZ nonprofit and never be able to get any more information that they need. And so, big piece of advice to nonprofits is decide whether you want to educate with your video primarily. Or you want people to feel something, you want it to be a bit more emotional, because information many times. And emotion work against each other. And so if you really want people to feel something, you don’t want to overload them with a ton of information. You don’t need to tell them a ton about your process or or or how to apply for help, right? You really want to hit them with that emotion and then make them say, oh my gosh, I love what this organization is doing. Let me find out the actual information. Let me find out the tactics. It’s probably not the place to do that in a video. Where you’re trying to make them feel something. Does that make sense? Absolutely, yeah, you’re, you’re, that’s the sincerity, the genuineness that we talked about in the opening. When that comes across, if people feel the connection, they’ll go do the research. They’ll go to your, they’ll go to your site and, and presumably that’s the place where all your programs are and the giving button, etc. So you’re not, right, you just, you’re just trying to, you’re just trying to draw some, draw people in. Right? If you can draw them in through the heart, their brain will follow, and that’s where they’ll do the, the, the research to find out, to find out greater detail. It’s time for a break. Imagine a fundraising partner that not only helps you raise more money, but also supports you in retaining your donors. A partner that helps you raise funds both online and on location so you can grow your impact faster. That’s DonorBox, a comprehensive suite of tools, services and resources that gives fundraisers just like you a custom solution to tackle your unique challenges, helping you achieve the growth and sustainability your organization needs, helping you help others. Visit donorbox.org to learn more. Now back to consider video. Any other advice on, uh, no, OK, let’s say I’m a uh nonprofit CEO or maybe I’m a marketing communications person and I’m coaching somebody else, you know, uh, again, it’s somebody, um, let’s take somebody who’s benefiting from our work, um. I, I, I, I, there are certain things that I do want them to hit on, but I don’t want to overload them 3 minutes before we start recording. Any more advice on how to, how to help them through? Yeah, great question. Uh, so let’s, let’s hit the lead up to that because there’s a lot of people that never get there, Tony, to ask the people who are there helping to tell their story because they feel like that’s exploitative, that hey, I can’t ask this person that we’ve given some, some sort of help or aid to, to share their story because we wanted to just help them. We weren’t helping them for the, for the chance to raise money or to gain or to do anything. And that’s, that’s wrong. Uh, the, the fact is that a lot of these folks are very eager to give back in some way. And if you explain to them, hey, no obligation, but we’d love to share your story to try to help more people like you that were in your situation when you found us. You, I mean, most of them are gonna say yes, and I learned that firsthand many times over the years. And as far as how to prepare them, I don’t think you, you hit on something. I just, I wanna emphasize folks are looking for a way to give back and you know, it may not, maybe they can volunteer to help others or maybe they can give some money or you know, but if they can’t do those or even if they can, there there’s a good likelihood that they’ll be willing to. Sit with you for a half hour for you to hone down to a 92nd, you know, in a little 92nd spot, and it does not need to be exploitative, you know, uh, and, and, and some of the work we’re doing is, you know, we’re, uh, this kind of subsumed we’re assuming, you know, the person is, is not a person of means. They may very well be a person of means. So there’s the first thing. Or even if they’re not, they may very well be looking for a way to give back. And, and be happy to sit with you for a half hour, so you can call out 90 seconds of of valuable content. But so I just wanted to emphasize those points you made, but you were, you were about to say, you know, about how to prepare, how to prepare these folks. Yeah, as far as how to prepare these folks, I, I don’t think that you necessarily want to prepare them. I think that if you’re thinking about specific content to get, I think the person that really needs to be prepared is the person asking them the questions or conducting the conversation. And so really educating that person on, here’s the outcome we want to create. Here’s their story, the person you’re gonna be interviewing. Here’s the points we really wanna hit on. And then for that interviewer, sometimes you have to circle back 3 or 4 times to the same question phrased differently throughout the conversation to get the certain sound bites that you want. But you really don’t want to go to somebody and say, hey, kind of say this, right? And the other thing that I would strongly advise against is if you are working in the nonprofit and you own that relationship with the person that you wanna share their story. I don’t believe you should be sitting in the chair across from them. I don’t think you should be saying, hey, tell us how great we are. Tell us how much we have 60 Minute style. No, there should be someone sitting across from them, but it should not be the person that owns the relationship. If you’re the person at the nonprofit that welcomed them into the organization and we’re the primary caregiver or help giver. I really believe the conversation should be had with someone that they weren’t previously familiar with, so that they can talk about the organization without saying this is what you did for me, right? Because it’s inevitable if I’m sitting across from you, Tony, and you, you are leading a nonprofit and you helped me, you helped me and my family. It’s gonna be really hard for me to not say, I’m so grateful for what you did for me, for what your organization did for me. You want them to talk about the organization in the third person? And it’s very difficult for them to do that if they’re talking to someone within the organization that they’re very familiar with. Why do you want it to be a third person reference? Because then it, it sounds, it sounds a bit more genuine as opposed to someone, it almost sounds like you planted them there. What were they going to say, right? Like, if you’re sitting across from them and you own that relationship and you’re saying, hey, tell us what we did for you. The words might certainly be genuine. But the fact that they’re speaking directly to you, as a listener, I’m thinking, well, did they have a choice? Are they really telling me the truth because obviously they’re talking to someone within the organization. I’d rather hear them say, you know, I, we encountered XYZ uh this way, and here’s how we learned about them, and here’s what they did for us. I never want to hear, thank you for what you did for us. You guys did this, you guys did that. Now, if that’s what your organization likes to hear, totally fine. My opinion is it’s better coming from a third party and it’s more comfortable for the person if they are able to be their true authentic self and not sit there and have to keep wondering. I wonder what this person wants me to say exactly. All right, fair point. Um, we’re gonna get to, uh, some use cases, uh, momentarily, but, uh, we’re gonna pivot a little bit to this, uh, 4 month, uh, sportscasting career you had. What, what, uh, why, why did it, why did it last all of 4 months? What happened? What’s that about? Yeah, I, I don’t know, Tony. If you can find the producer and find out why that show got canceled, I’d really appreciate it. Broke my little 22 year old heart. It’s the only thing I ever really wanted to do. Uh, but I will also tell you that in the 4 months that I did it, I realized, number one, I wasn’t very good at it. But also, #2, I wasn’t able to be very creative. The work that we get to do today, what I love is that there’s no blueprint to it. And so you have no choice but to be creative. And it’s all centered around conversations. So I will be told when I was a sports reporter for that very brief time, go out and do a 92nd story on this athlete and make sure you include this, this and this. Well, there’s not a whole lot of room for creativity there, right? But in the work we do now, I might go out to a nonprofit, have a conversation with 6 people, bring back an hour and 15 or 1 hour and a half hour worth of footage and some B roll, and there is absolutely no blueprint to be able to put together a story other than cutting it down, finding the gems, and figure out how those puzzle pieces fit together. So the fact that I sucked at it and the fact that I got fired, uh, or that the show got canceled, de facto fired. It’s a blessing in disguise, certainly, and I’m just very grateful that we’ve had the chance to help so many organizations over the years for sure. Well, that was, that’s a very impressive pivot. Uh, I still wanna, I still wanna go a little deeper. Uh, I see over your over your shoulder above that camera. I see a CW knowing from your, you’re from Philadelphia. Is that Case Western? That is West Catholic High School, uh, high school varsity letter. Listen, I’m true to my school. I love that varsity letter. Look at what happens. What happens when you. Yeah, what happens when you turn a kid’s playroom into an office and you get these beautiful built-in shelves, but you don’t know what to put on them. You start digging in old boxes, right? That’s where the varsity letter came from. I see that’s your varsity letter. OK, um, sorry, so the sportscasting job was right out of college. Where did you go to college? La Salle University. So down the street from Temple University, right Philadelphia. Phil, went for communication and, and had a very kind of traditional. Communication by the book education. So. A lot of the things that I’m doing now from a production standpoint, uh, were, were things that were the complete opposite of what we were taught, which was all very script-based. OK. OK. And uh sportscasting was at a local Philadelphia station or a Comcast station called CNA. I was a high school sports reporter. Very glamorous, Tony. Very glamorous indeed. Well, it’s local local news, there’s value in local news. Oh, for sure, it was a start, right? Like, I mean, I actually was on the air for, for, for all 4 months. And then I would have had to move around to really small markets and have no friends and make no money and live on ramen and try to figure out if I can get. Back to a big market and you bootstrap your way up, you know, through uh Lincoln, Nebraska and Omaha, uh and uh. And, and move your way hopefully to a major market, but right, that takes that takes years and right, but we’re not, we’re not picking on Nebraska, right? Because we just hit on two cities, both in Nebraska. I did, yeah, well, they’re Midwestern, you know, they’re not major markets, but they’re maybe well, I’m not sure, they may not be bigger than, no, they’re probably not bigger than Philadelphia. I don’t know. Oh gosh, no, no, but maybe I could have done news at a place like a high school sports coverage coverage at a smaller town. That’s, that’s kind of what I was thinking. That’s exactly right. Bootstrapping your way up. All right. All right, so that, thank you. Thanks for sharing a little sportscaster background. It’s time for Tony’s take too. Thank you, Kate. As I said last week, uh, amid the, the funding frenzy, the, the, the freeze, and then the release of the freeze, and, uh, now USAID funding is frozen and USAID’s future looks bleak. Uh, um, as I said, we’ve got your back. I’m, I’m thinking about you, we’re supporting you. Uh, thinking especially of the nonprofits that are affected very adversely by the USAID. Freeze which seems like an imminent, uh, elimination of the, of the department. So, but beyond that, you know, I don’t wanna be just like Pollyannaish or you know, uh, ignoring. The, the trauma that. A lot of our listeners are going through because of these funding, you know, changes and uncertainties. So, you know, we, we did have, uh, in December, we had Gene and Amy talking about Potential threats to uh to parts of the community. Uh, Gene and Amy are gonna come back later this month to talk about some of the real threats and how to counter them, how to prepare for, for things that may, uh, may come in the future. Beyond that, I’m working on a guest from the Alliance for Justice to talk about, go deeper on. what could be coming and how to prepare, basically, you know, resilience in the face of a lot of uncertainty and maybe serious challenges beyond just uncertainty. So, we’re definitely dealing with it. In addition to that, though, I believe in consistency in the face of uncertainty, uh, you know, we’re gonna keep doing the, the kinds of topics that we do week after week. And, and just, you know, be sort of a bedrock for you, that you can count on, you know, we’re not gonna be political. We’re just, we’re we’re gonna deal with the facts that are before the, the nonprofit community in the United States. We’re not ignoring those in the ways I just described, we’re gonna deal with those, but beyond that, it’s, you know, consistency. You can count on nonprofit radio to not be alarmist, just. Continue our programming and that will include the things that I was describing and, and maybe more. Oh, that’s, that’s what’s planned just in the next couple of coming weeks. I do host a more sort of activist group, which is not related to nonprofit radio. We, we’ve met only twice. If you would like to be a part of that, if you’d like to be on the email list for that, you can send me a message, you can use my email, Tony at Tony Martignetti.com. Let me know you’d like to be on the list for that group, or you could send me a message on LinkedIn. But I need your email either way. So if you’re gonna use LinkedIn, make sure you include your email, and I’ll just include you on the list of this, uh, at this point, I would say nascent. Nonprofit community that is working. Uh, to support each other and also to identify how we can prepare and react. But, you know, that group is devoted to those subjects. Nonprofit radio, we’re remaining. Very consistent as we have since 2010. And that is Tony’s take two. Kate, oh, I, I missed my cue. Oh, right. And that is Tony’s take too. Kate. I didn’t have much to add other than I think what you said, uh, consistency in a time of change and uncertainty. Is helpful. I wanna put that on like a t-shirt. OK, yeah, no, I, I, I think there’s value in that that you folks know that they can count on nonprofit radio, so yeah. We’ve got booco butt loads more time. Uh, we got just about a butt load more time. Here’s the rest of, I’ll just redo that. Ah. I love Buu, that’s uh. We’ve got just about a butt load more time. Here’s the rest of Consider Video with Pat Taggart. We’ll honor your, uh, your savvy pivot now. Let’s get back to the uh to the subject, uh, for the time being anyway. Uh, some use cases. So you mentioned um. One that I had not thought of, which is uh why I’d like to talk about it. I’m trying to, I try to. Channel listeners, what you know what might be interesting to them employee hiring use of video in a hiring process. What does that look like? Who’s who’s doing the video? Are the applicants doing the videos? Are we doing the videos and then the applicants, do we, should we demand videos from applicants or is that, is that really belongs in the arts and not here? What, what is, what is video in uh in hiring look like? Yeah, so typically what we do is is go out and help companies tell the story of their culture to attract people that fit that culture. And since COVID, The majority of our initial reach outs from companies. Are based around that rather than marketing, which is completely different than pre-COVID. The war for talent has never been more intense and it’s very difficult to attract people to your organization for profit or nonprofit, obviously. And so what do you do? The best way to attract people that fit is to sit people that are already fit, that already work with you and choose to get up and follow your mission every day in a seat. And let them talk to someone like me. That can find out why they choose to stay and why your culture lights them up and why your organization has given them purpose and then cut it into a piece where someone can watch it that’s looking for a position and say wow, I would fit there. That aligns with my personal core values. I can imagine myself waking up every day. And following that mission. Now one important caveat where these things go wrong sometimes is that. Organizations try to paint the most rosy, perfect picture of what it’s like to work there. Because they want to attract everyone. But the truth is they don’t want to attract everyone. In fact, these videos just as much as they attract the right fit, they should repel the wrong fit. So it’s very, very important to be specific about your culture, about work, about maybe some of the things that wouldn’t work for people. Let me give you an example. At one organization we did work for, there was. You know, a call for very early hours, and so they started very early in the morning, right? They packed meals very early in the morning. Well, if you like to sleep in. That’s gonna be a terrible fit for you. But a lot of organizations would leave that out because they say we don’t want to scare people away. Oh, you want them to know that right up front because you don’t want to waste a second of your time interviewing someone that might slip through last 2 or 3 weeks and say, hey, this, this is awful. I don’t, I don’t wanna be here at 5 a.m., right? So be very specific about who you’re looking for and and who you’re not looking for. And a great way to do it really is video because if you create it one time, it can work for you. You know, for the next 235 years, 10 years, as long as your mission hasn’t changed. What about videos from the applicants? Is that, is that a thing? is that, uh, I, I thought that was trending for a while. Well, I guess, I guess that was during the pandemic also. Uh, but that, you know, that puts a lot of pressure on an applicant. Now I gotta, I gotta look right, I gotta have good lighting, otherwise my, you know, if my production values aren’t high. That’s gonna, that’s gonna impinge on the hiring because the people aren’t, people watching are not gonna be sophisticated enough to overlook my low production values and so I gotta, you know, I have to invest in a light kit and you know, is that, is that a thing or is that, is that passed, uh, video, videos submitted by applicants? No, I, I certainly think that that it can be useful in certain organizations. Obviously, we don’t do it because we can’t create it. Right? So, you know, it’s not, it’s not something that, are you seeing it? Are you seeing that or, or, or not? Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, you are not, you’re not off base on that at all. I think, I think there’s a lot of organizations that are using that to their advantage and really, especially, you know, if And I truly believe this, that you can’t really feel someone’s tone and their heart and their energy in text. You know, they can write something. How many times have you seen somebody write something, a text message to you and they use 4 exclamation points and then you see them 10 seconds later and they’re not very excited at all, right? So it’s really hard to determine someone’s intentions and their voice, uh, through text alone. I think video is a great way to do that and you know, it’s free for the organization. If somebody can’t figure out how to send you a short video. Chances are they’re not gonna be able to handle whatever their day to day tasks are. Oh, that could be. All right, tech wise, OK, yeah, or give them like 4 simple instructions. Hey, please record this wide screen, not vertical. Make sure you’re in a room with a solid background, and then if if they mess up two or three of the very simple instructions. Well, they didn’t take it very seriously and they don’t pay attention to details, right? OK, that could be. All right, those are interesting. All right, interesting, uh, tests, simple, simple. All right. Um, what about for donors? Well, I guess, um, I mean we’ve, we’ve talked through what, what the value could be, you know, testimonial videos, things like that. We didn’t, we didn’t call them that but having your donors talk about the nonprofit is that I think that’s similar to having those who are benefiting from your work, you know, maybe they’re having testimonial videos, uh, a couple of testimonial videos on your site. That sounds similar to having either your program staff or those benefiting. Talking about, you know, so I think you, I think your advice there would apply. What about, um, you’re seeing much use in The, uh, the organization creating videos to thank donors, you know, personal videos. I know, I know there are apps for that. You might not be a fan of those like Bonjoro or, you know, might, you might not be an advocate of those, but I know that they exist. What about personalized video as a, as a thank you? I think it’s wonderful. And I’ve seen organizations do a really great job of automating that. So there’s two ways to do it. You can create kind of one master thank you video that can go out when someone donates, it can be auto generated via email. They receive a thank you email with a video embedded, uh, or, you know, if you want to go to the next level and maybe at a certain donation level, you create a custom video. And you know, you have maybe split it up among your team, uh, or, you know, if you’re the leader, maybe, hey, you say at this donation level, whatever that is for your organization, I am going to record a 20, 32nd video to thank that donor very sincerely, very organically. And I think obviously, personalization is is best. Uh now, depending on how many donations you receive and the size of your organization, you might say, hey, that’s not feasible. That’s a great problem to have, right? In that case, maybe give a shot to something that’s uh that’s a little bit more canned, not in a bad way, but, you know, just pre-produced and I think that using video in ways like that because it’s such a great idea, but also just looking through your full experience, your full donor experience and how they encounter the organization all the way through to the point they donate and say, is there a place where we can substitute some text for video? And my guess is that most organizations you’ll find a couple of ways to make the process more engaging. And I would add to that that uh applies for volunteers as well. Everything, everything we just said, you know, I, I asked you about donors, but all, all applies to volunteers as well. Um, what else, Pat, what, what else would you like to talk about videos or small mid-size nonprofits that we haven’t uh scratched into yet. I think we hit a whole lot, Tony. I really what I would say to folks is, you know, the best time to get started is, is, is now, and it sounds so cliche, but people really wait on video because they think it has to be perfect. And it doesn’t have to be perfect. It just has to be genuine. So just start creating some content, let people in maybe behind the scenes of what it’s like to run your organization, share stories, maybe they’re not the story of your organization, but stories that happen every day, really wonderful conversations. You can certainly protect people’s privacy and you don’t have to mention who it is. You can just say, hey, we met someone today that and, and tell the story, right? Uh, but there’s so many stories that pop up every day. It’s why we love doing work with organizations. And oftentimes they just don’t get shared, which is a real tragedy because there’s magic behind those stories, and I think that if you’re intentional about sharing them, put the self-consciousness aside, put the, you know, the default feeling that everything has to be perfect aside and just say we’re doing great work in the world, we want to share it with more people, we’re going to start recording videos. I think you’re gonna get a really positive response from people. My kids. They don’t read, right? I mean, they read when they have to, but how do they consume their information and entertainment. They watch how old how old are they? They’re teenagers. um, and, and so that there’s a whole group of people and now the twenty-somethings that I know as well, they’re the same. And so the wave is coming of people that, you know, didn’t grow up with video as a luxury or as in hey, we also have this, it’s their primary source of information and entertainment. And for so for the long term viability of your organization you really need to speak to people in that way because it also rubs off on us like if I have kids that are constantly watching video, I’m probably gonna watch more video as well, right? So tell your stories and realize that there’s a whole audience of people out there that maybe they’re not gonna donate but they might be a perfect candidate to come work for you and it’s the only way they’re going to learn about you is if you put yourself on video. that, that sounds like a wrap up, but I, I gotta pull on one of the threads that you, uh, we, we’ll get to the wrap up. I’ll, I’ll, you’ll have another shot at, uh, terrific inspiration, uh, even for a video, um, the everyday stuff in your office, you know, we take it for granted because we’re doing the work day in day out, month after month, but, but folks who Might give or volunteer or who are currently, you know, they don’t see that day in and day out and they they’re interested, you know, if they’re giving time or money they’re interested in the work that you’re doing and uh something behind the scenes, you know, that’s not the work being delivered, the the pro the program being delivered, but something behind the scenes now not, you know, not a staff meeting. But some, some kind of engaging, uh, engaging scenes that are behind the scenes that most people don’t see, you know, you might not be able to invite them for, uh, an in-person tour because your donors are too, too dispersed. But to share that behind the scenes stuff, I mean, we, we love that behind the scenes. So think of the, think of the, uh, like the, the, the blooper roles that we, you know, that, uh, that major celebrities create, you know, we love that stuff. That’s the behind the scenes. That, that we take for granted that that can be very, very engaging. Yeah, let people in, right? That’s what you’re saying. Let, let them in. I am saying that I love and I love that and it’s so true. Just, you know, you know, but the stuff that you take for granted is not routine to those who love your work and just don’t get to see it, uh, done at the granular level that you do there you do have. Engaging Uh, interesting stories to tell. For sure, yeah, and sometimes when you’re when you’re in the minutiae of every day. You can lose sight of that, and sometimes it takes somebody from the outside to say, hey, this is, this is really cool. You know, why don’t you tell anybody about this? It’s like, I don’t know, it’s just kind of what we do. Yeah, it’s what you do every day, but it’s interesting to the rest of the world. Somebody from the outside, like Pat Taggart just like Pat Taggart just did. Like Pat Taggart, but there, there are more, there are more, Tony. Uh, you know, we, we, we love, we get a chance to work with, with uh select few companies and we, we typically go pretty deep with those companies, uh, because I really believe that if you’re going to bring in somebody. On the professional level, like us, you don’t just wanna create one video. You wanna be very intentional about, hey, here’s our punch list, here’s our wish list, while we have everybody together, while we are thinking about this, let’s create a library of content. That is going to take us from next to no or no video to absolute best in class video and fill our social media pipeline for the next year or so. With all this really great organic content we can capture. Pat Taggart, founder and chief creative at Sky Blue Creative, you’ll find the company at the aptly named uh URL sky BlueCreative.com. Thank you very much, Pat. Thank you for sharing. Tony, I really enjoyed the contest. Thanks for having me. The contest, boy, I’m still thinking about this football game. Yeah, he’s got the, he’s got the hat on. He’s got he’s obsessed. All right, go Eagles, Eagles. Next week, the 4 mindsets. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you. Find it at Tony Martignetti.com. We’re sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, Donorbox.org. Oh, I love that alliteration. Fast, flexible, friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate Martignetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.