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[00:00:14.34] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:01:28.64] spk_4:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize, a phobia if you missed our eighth and final show in The Innovators, Siri’s be a disrupter. Crisfield has been disrupting since he ran for mayor at age 19. His book, Disrupting for Good, tells the stories of unheralded disrupting folks from age 5 to 77 encourages you to do the same. Thankfully, he’s with me for the hour. He’s the perfect guest to round out our innovators. Siris on 20 steak, too. I’m channeling You were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. What

[00:01:28.85] spk_3:
a pleasure to

[00:02:16.44] spk_4:
welcome our eighth innovator in the Siri’s rounding out the Innovators Siri’s Crisfield, his book is disrupting for good, using passion and persistence to create a lasting change since 19. He’s directed a camp for inner city kids, created viral Internet campaigns, started his own marathon, set multiple Guinness World records and raised millions of dollars for charity. His greatest passion is Mercy Project, the non profit he started with his wife in Ghana, Africa, to help rescue child slaves out of the fishing industry. It’s at mercy project dot net. He’s at May. Meet Crisfield dot com, meet Crisfield dot com and at disruption, Chris Crisfield. Welcome to non profit radio.

[00:02:19.74] spk_0:
Tony, Thank you so much.

[00:02:31.23] spk_4:
It’s a pleasure. I am very glad to have you. Um, we’re getting We got a full hour to talk about your book, which I, which I love, um, disrupting. You

[00:02:32.15] spk_3:
know, you may as well I don’t even want

[00:02:35.18] spk_4:
to start with. What’s a disrupter? Start with that 19 year old ran for mayor story. It’s so good. Um, it was it was your inaugural disruption, I suppose. Um, it’s carried down to your daughter. Will get to all this. Tell the tell the tell the mayor story.

[00:02:52.54] spk_0:
Yeah. I was 19 and a freshman in college,

[00:02:56.07] spk_4:
a text

[00:03:08.78] spk_0:
saying them and really was just actually reading the local newspaper was in 5002 and assaulted the two candidate for male for mayor.

[00:03:14.36] spk_4:
Freedom to

[00:03:19.34] spk_0:
yeah, to 70 year old men. And I thought, You know, in this town of 100,000 people,

[00:03:23.06] spk_4:
what’s this? College is at College Station, Texas Yet Route station, 40

[00:03:31.48] spk_0:
1000 college students, tons of young families. I thought, that’s crazy that there’s

[00:03:32.81] spk_4:
so

[00:03:41.24] spk_0:
one closer to more representative of the average person in this town and their experience, you know? And so I thought I should run for mayor.

[00:03:44.24] spk_4:
I mean, that I’m closer to age.

[00:03:58.18] spk_0:
I’m a college student Centre college students. So let’s go see what it takes. I showed up in the city hall, went to the city secretary. Astor said him. I’m here to sign up, to run for mayor. And she said, Well, you should start with City Council, sweetheart.

[00:04:02.80] spk_3:
So you know our

[00:04:05.37] spk_0:
tire. I appreciate

[00:04:07.03] spk_4:
recommendation.

[00:04:08.05] spk_0:
Especially being called sweetheart feels especially meaningful,

[00:04:11.20] spk_4:
but

[00:05:14.07] spk_0:
I think I’m gonna go for mayor here. I mean, I I think I’m really gonna go for it. And it seems like the same amount of work to me to run for mayor or city Council. And so she kind of huffed and rolled her eyes and slid the piece of paper across to me and I signed up. And then I came to a stop because I had to have a campaign manager had to put their name and information on there for legal purposes, and I hadn’t talked to anybody about going down to sign up. So I before the days of cell phones, too, by the way. So I quickly signed up. My my one of my best friends is also freshman a texting them named Tristan Webber. And as soon as I got home, I picked up my handheld phone there in the room and I called him and I said, Hey, if anyone calls you like the newspaper and ask you about being my campaign manager, it’s true. I’m running for mayor and I put your campaign manager said, Oh my gosh, I don’t know how to do that. I said, Don’t worry, I’m not gonna raise any money. I just had to have a campaign manager. And he said, Our finance manager said, Okay, man, whatever. And I said, Don’t say that If they call, you can’t say whatever you gotta say something about what

[00:05:18.20] spk_4:
a great ass that I’m

[00:05:34.74] spk_0:
gonna be to the community, you know? So he laughed, and and that was that. I was officially a mayoral candidate. So the spring of my freshman year of college, I started wearing black and a dress shirt every day to class and going out and walk in the streets and meeting people and inviting them to vote for Chris Field as mayor of people really got a kick out of seeing my age. I did my homework, and I got third out of five candidates, so I didn’t lose, But I didn’t win.

[00:05:46.14] spk_4:
All right, That’s terrific. What year was that?

[00:05:49.08] spk_0:
That was in May of 2002 when the election was

[00:05:52.41] spk_4:
okay. All right. I love it. Thank you. Awesome. Uh, yes. Oh, um, yeah,

[00:05:58.28] spk_3:
I love that, you know. So I decided to run for mayor. That’s not the first thought

[00:06:14.79] spk_4:
that most people would have. Most people would just scowl about it, be pissed off, and, uh, and talk to their friends about it over a beer back at the back of the dorm. But you’re a person of action. Disruption. Uh, what What uh What generally is a disrupter?

[00:07:04.51] spk_0:
Yes. So in my book, I have two definitions for disruptor, and the first is a disrupter is someone who is uncomfortable with the truth. So they show up, take action and persist until a new and better truth is born. And then the second definition is that a disrupter dismantles accepted norms and forge is unimagined futures. So those were two sides of the same coin, and both of them have very similar messages, and that is a disrupter. Sees something, and they do something. I mean, that’s what it boils down to is they see something that bothers them, which most of us are really good at. But then they do something about it to create something better than what they’re now. And that’s where most of a struggle is on the action.

[00:07:17.31] spk_4:
Yeah, the forging, the forging and the and the sticking. Yep. Yeah. As I said, most of us would not choose to run for mayor. We would, right? We were just scowled about it on and let it go. Let it run off our backs. But all right, all right. So I

[00:07:28.84] spk_3:
don’t know. I wonder if there’s

[00:07:29.94] spk_4:
any kind of, but you don’t mention statistics in the book at all. But do we know what proportion of the the U. S population might be Disruptors versus all the rest of us?

[00:07:41.24] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, I don’t I don’t know that statistic. I

[00:07:44.12] spk_4:
know that

[00:08:15.64] spk_0:
when I went out to look for stories of disruptors to fill the book and to understand Maura about that mentality in that mind because, you know, really, what, where where this came from was I had a friend in 2014 that e mailed me and he had found a program at U. S. C where you could get a bachelor’s degree in disruption. And I was long past college. At that point, I had a couple of college degrees and I wasn’t going back, but he he e mailed me and he said When I saw this, you were the first person I thought of.

[00:08:20.73] spk_4:
Oh, yeah,

[00:08:40.74] spk_0:
And I thought, you know, that is kind of what I’ve been doing all these years. Like I haven’t always had a name for it, and it hasn’t always been very popular, and certainly my teachers didn’t like it in grade school, but that’s what I’ve been to disrupt her for all these years. And it wasn’t always for good. But now it has, you know, Morphin into disrupting for good. And so, no, I think that all of us have that disruptor inside of us.

[00:08:48.54] spk_4:
Yes,

[00:09:06.07] spk_0:
but for whatever reason, I think, actually, kids are better disruptors than adults because kids aren’t afraid to fail. I mean, you think about when a child sees I have four young kids between two. And 10. And what I love about Children is that when they see something wrong, their immediate responses we should do something about that.

[00:09:25.83] spk_4:
All right, my Chris Hold hold that. We’re gonna take our first break. We’re gonna take our first break, but definitely I want to pursue the this this kid channel. So absolutely. Just bear with me for a short break for wegner-C.P.As wegner-C.P.As so that your 9 90 gets filed on time so that your audit is finished accurately and on time so that you are getting the device, the device, the advice, the advice, the hostess so lackluster ITT’s, It’s It’s pathetic, really, That the host is not better. Um, so

[00:09:46.65] spk_3:
that you get the

[00:10:01.14] spk_4:
advice of an experienced partner. You Each tomb, you know him. He’s been on the show just a couple weeks ago and a full firm that has a nationwide non profit practice with thousands of nine nineties and audits under their belt. That’s what it’s all about. Wegner-C.P.As dot com now Okay, let’s go back to be a disrupter. And yes, please. Children are less fearful of failure.

[00:11:04.43] spk_0:
Absolutely, yeah. You know, if you think about Children, if whether it’s your own kids or your grandkids or nieces and nephews are just a child, you know, you know when they see something that’s wrong when they hear a story about Children in another country or somebody who doesn’t have clean water or, you know, whatever the thing is there a media response is not Oh, someone should do something about that or, oh, why haven’t Why hasn’t the government or, you know, shouldn’t shouldn’t someone write a paper or create a petition or go on Facebook and Twitter and complain about the immediately we should help them? Or we should do something about that, you know? And that’s the no, that’s the sort of response of Children, and I love that response I think we outgrow that as adults because we we began to fear failure. We experience failure

[00:11:07.89] spk_4:
and

[00:11:23.03] spk_0:
we know we don’t like it doesn’t feel good. And so for many of us, we kind of, honestly, we stopped trying hard stuff when we begin to avoid anything that might cause this pain. But unfortunately that’s where so much of the transformation happens is in those moments where we might fail. And that’s really where disruption takes root.

[00:11:46.54] spk_4:
Yeah, this is This is a profound, I think. I wonder how many thousands of ideas for a better Starbucks are germinating in people’s minds. Tens of thousands, but no one takes him on. It’s Yeah, it’s

[00:11:47.65] spk_0:
exactly right.

[00:11:48.66] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
in because you use the example of Starbucks, you multiply that times a 1,000,000. I mean, how many? How many times a day does the average person say, You know, that shouldn’t be like that or that could be so much better. I don’t know why somebody doesn’t fill in the blank, but almost none of those times do we actually step into that gap ourselves and say, Why not me? You know, I mean, why not mean that was the question to change my whole life. When I was 19 when I ran for mayor, I ran my first marathon and I got hired to direct a camp for inner city kids, the non profit camp for kids who couldn’t afford to go to summer camp. And all those things happen in a six month period. All of a sudden, I realized that the barriers around me that I perceived as made out of concrete or metal they were actually paper McShay and all they took was the slightest touch, and they fell over. And so all of a sudden it was like my eyes were open to this world and I would see something around me that oh well, you can’t do that like, Well, why not? Or no one’s ever done that before. Well, why not me or someone should fix that? Well, I should fix that. I’m just totally changed the change the way I view the world announced that kind of going along in treating life as though I was a spectator and life was happening to me all of a sudden. Now I felt like I was a fool, capable participants, And if there was something I didn’t like I had the power to change that. They on a big scale like some of things we talked about, but also on a very small scale. If I didn’t like being tired every morning, I could change my schedule to go to bed earlier. If I wanted to make a better grade, I could work harder or go to tutoring or find somebody in the class that knew more about it than I did. And it was incredibly empowering. Thio suddenly view life as a 1,000,000 opportunities to embrace the chance to create really meaningful change. Instead of just kind of wandering along as though life was happening to me, it was a huge paradigm shift for me.

[00:14:17.84] spk_4:
Yeah, And instead of life happening to you, I love your metaphor of paper machine versus concrete barriers on dhe steel barriers, paper mache, eh? Um yeah. You say explicitly in the book we can choose to disrupt. We can’t. It’s a conscious choice. We make not to make a change when we see something that is requires action needs dismantling, you say dismantling. All right, what we’re talking about, kids. Go ahead, tell the story of ah little Micah.

[00:14:40.59] spk_0:
Yeah. So my daughter, Mike, uh, is now she’s 10 But when she was five years old, her stories in the book. And when she was five years old, she came home from pre K, and she’s a feisty little gal, which I love, and she

[00:14:43.45] spk_4:
just

[00:15:00.74] spk_0:
kind of stomped her foot and looked up in my wife for me. And she said, Why don’t we recycle and we think Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? What, What? What? What’s prompted this strong feeling here. And she said, You know, at school today we learned all about recycling and how terrible trash is for the earth. And how so much if it could be avoided if we just recycled. And I want to know why we don’t recycle. And we said, Well, little miss,

[00:15:12.59] spk_4:
I’ll tell you why, sweetheart. Did you call her? You got condescending, sweetheart. You didn’t give her that.

[00:15:16.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I actually probably was a little scared of talking

[00:15:21.07] spk_4:
back. He was pretty fired. Yes, you’re wiser than that clerk in college station. Okay?

[00:15:54.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And I said, Hey, I said Mike a great question. I’ll tell you why we don’t recycle cause we’re just outside the city limits, and there’s no recycling program where we live, and I don’t even know where we would take our recycling, you know, in our city, because the city picks it up. But I don’t know, you know, it’s private and she said, Well, why hasn’t someone started a recycling? You know, business? If the city doesn’t do it, why didn’t someone else do it? And I So I guess they think they couldn’t make money. It’s just not worth the trouble. And she said, Well, I’m glad they haven’t done it because I’ll

[00:15:58.25] spk_4:
do it.

[00:16:15.65] spk_0:
And so, five years old, she hired her brother, paid them a dollar to walk the neighborhood with their They passed out 75 flyers to these long driveways live lived in a neighborhood that had acreage so long, driveways, little leg. Took

[00:16:17.42] spk_4:
him all afternoon, two

[00:16:18.69] spk_0:
hours, three hours and

[00:16:20.26] spk_4:
little wouldn’t

[00:16:38.54] spk_0:
you know. So may I start getting the D E mails? People saying we’d love to sign up for recycling with Michael, we’d love to sign up, so I borrowed my wife’s minivan. I just had a little sedan and we started going out. We went out Thursday morning, picked up all the recycling 15 customers. We start doing that every single Thursday and after two years, Micah’s recycled £40,000 of trash, which the equivalent of like 500,000 aluminum cans and her along the way. I’m getting paid every month, of course, which she has. No idea. She’s five

[00:16:56.17] spk_4:
yards, get $5 she’s excited. But along those

[00:16:58.94] spk_0:
two years, she stays up enough money to pay for first semester of college.

[00:17:04.82] spk_4:
That’s incredible. End up telling

[00:17:05.47] spk_0:
the brother the business for a little brother for

[00:17:08.07] spk_4:
$20

[00:17:10.34] spk_0:
she takes it over when he’s in kindergarten. He does it for a year. We move out of that neighborhood, so he sells it to middle school boys for 200

[00:17:19.07] spk_4:
dollars. That was

[00:17:24.54] spk_0:
the that was the first business creation sale and then eventual acquisition from another company for my five and seven year old kid.

[00:17:40.34] spk_4:
Even a five year old can disrupt Yeah, if the five year old can do it, you can too. That’s outstanding. Um,

[00:17:45.84] spk_3:
you say that, um, most of you find that we’re gonna

[00:17:58.91] spk_4:
get to a couple of stories, and then, of course, we’re definitely gonna get to your call to action. This is not just a storybook, but you want people to challenge themselves and become disruptors e each each of them as well. Um, but

[00:18:03.69] spk_3:
you say that eyes this kind of in passing.

[00:18:04.99] spk_4:
But it struck me because of what we what we talk about here. You

[00:18:07.99] spk_3:
think you feel like most thought

[00:18:09.16] spk_4:
leaders are not in non profit therein most thought leaders Aaron four profit enterprises.

[00:18:53.03] spk_0:
Yeah, I think that I think the non profit industry has struggles over the years. I’m a young guy. I’m 37. So I’m not. I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes. I know sometimes when I say that people, people kind of get frustrated me. But I think that the the business world, the four profit world has more heavily compensated creativity than the non profit world. And so that tends to be where creative, big system thinking problem solvers end up. And I think that’s been at the demise of nonprofits. I mean, I would say like this

[00:19:12.94] spk_4:
well detriment eyes, not detriment, is not killing. It’s not killing us, but it’s hurting us. I think you mean right, e. I understand. I have to struggle with words all time. I’m not being insulting it all. We’re not killing. It’s not killing non profit but definitely injuring them.

[00:20:00.84] spk_0:
But I think that the way I put it is like this. There’s a lot of non profit, if we’re honest that the complexity of our solution does not match the complexity of the problem we’re trying to solve. And unfortunately, when that happened, it means we’re probably not getting at the root causes of that thing we’re trying to solve, because if it were easy to solve and it was a simple solution, it probably would have already been solved, you know? But it’s going to require some sophistication, is gonna require some complexity. And that’s not a bad thing. I mean, that’s a good thing, because when we begin to create complex solution, that’s when we really begin to get at the root causes of why a problem exists. And that’s when we can begin to end it forever.

[00:20:29.52] spk_4:
Yeah, the the problems certainly are complex, but, you know, I don’t know, pick homelessness O r. Or hunger or climate change. Oh, our domestic abuse. Um, animal abuse education, you know, um, but

[00:20:29.76] spk_3:
yeah. And certainly

[00:20:39.96] spk_4:
four profit salaries generally are higher than you know on average, Certainly their higher. But

[00:20:42.70] spk_3:
we, you know, we attract Ah, yeah, Well, we attract an altruistic,

[00:20:53.94] spk_4:
uh, personages Thio, delete and, um, altruism and passion. I’m sure you would say it takes more than that, though. Um,

[00:20:56.86] spk_3:
and there are, You know, there are

[00:20:57.89] spk_4:
bright thought leaders in the nonprofit community, but you’re saying the proportion the larger proportion is is in the four profit enterprises.

[00:21:08.83] spk_0:
I think it’s been rewarded

[00:21:10.53] spk_4:
mawr in

[00:21:11.51] spk_0:
the four profit.

[00:21:12.57] spk_4:
And that

[00:21:13.05] spk_0:
pushed more of that. That direction

[00:21:55.08] spk_4:
I think of what was Thea? What was the charity that was the warriors wounded a wounded warrior. Yeah, I had dug white on who wrote a book about the book called Wounded Charity. You know, they were doing extraordinary work, compensating people highly. The CEO was very highly paid over a $1,000,000 or something like this, which, compared to a lot of four profit salaries, is quite small. But but in our community, that’s that. You know, that was huge. And and they were, you know, you know this story of wounded warrior. Yeah. Yeah. They were doing great

[00:21:56.84] spk_3:
work and they had the outcomes

[00:22:40.68] spk_4:
to prove their success. But the the excesses I got a lot of press and that book wounded charity actually chronicles it very well. I’d like said I had the author Doug White on talk talking about it. But, you know, that was an example of of, ah, brilliant, successful, outcome driven charity. And they got, they got, they got beat up. Yep. So way tend to look, maybe at the draw a conclusion from that. But it was It’s certainly unfortunate, unfortunate case of ah, charity doing very good work. And now it remains as a shell of what it was. Yeah, I’m

[00:22:40.98] spk_0:
sure.

[00:22:42.11] spk_5:
Um,

[00:22:42.91] spk_3:
what do you what’s going on there

[00:22:44.15] spk_4:
at mercy project? We should give you a chance to explain what your what your work is.

[00:27:54.02] spk_0:
Yeah. So about 10 years ago, I read a book that talked about child trafficking in Ghana, Africa, and, you know, now trafficking human trafficking is a really hot button topic. Thankfully, it’s getting a lot of press. People are aware of some of the staggering statistics of modern day slavery and happening right here in America and across the world. 10 years ago, no one was talking about it I had no idea it wasn’t on my radar. No one I knew knew that there were slaves in the world and that people were still being trafficked. It really, really shocked my sensibilities. I mean, I I was When I first read the book, I was like, Hold on a minute. Is this really? I mean, I can’t even wrap my mind around this happening. And so we happen to be pregnant with our first baby at the time, my daughter Micah, and kind of holding those two things next to each other. We’re about to have this baby, and I’m I’ve got these enormous hopes and dreams for her life and what kind of life shall live and the opportunity she’ll have in all the ways I want to give her the world. And then I’m literally holding a book, talking about, you know, Children, traffic, and working 14 hours a day fishing, and I just the contrast of those two things. It was overwhelming, Frankly, and I Googled, the author of that book found her phone number colder, asked her if I could go to Africa with her. And three months later, I got out of a plane on the world in Ghana went out on the world’s largest man, made lake met these little boys and girls who were working all day as Fisher Boys and Fisher girls and and my heart was just broken. Came back to America, Remember just sitting on my couch, weeping and saying to my still pregnant wife, What? What kind of world is this? I mean, how do we How do we raise a child in this world? An ass car child to be kind and compassionate and generous, merciful? How do we ask her to be all those things and we’re not willing to be those things ourselves. When we see something that needs attention, I mean, what kind of people would we be? And so we kind of did what a lot of people do in a situation like that, Or I should say, a lot of what some people do in a situation. I got one of the more common responses, and that is we started raising money with the intention of giving it to somebody else who was gonna fix the problem, and then we could feel good about what we did and go on our way. And so we raised about $75,000 over nine months, just kind of a night and weekend hobby telling people about the Children and over that time, But I went back to Ghana two more times and discovered on those trips that it didn’t feel like anyone was really solving the problem in a way that was going to be forever. It didn’t feel like anyone was really getting at the root causes there was. There was people kind of buying the Children out of slavery. But then they were just giving the fisherman more money to go and buy more kids. I mean, there was no sustainable solution at all, and that was really bothersome to me. And so I knew we either needed just give our money and move on. And I feel like we at least did more than most people or I needed to quit my job, and we need to dedicate ourselves to trying to solve this problem in a in a way that really got at the root causes. So So we did that second when I quit my job in September 1st 2010 about 9.5 years ago, I started Mercy project. No idea what I was doing. No idea how to solve the problem. No idea why the problem existed, but a willingness to figure it out and to go to Ghana and learn from people and just be quiet and and and be a learner and really take that posture of understanding culturally, why it was happening in what could be done about it and so fast. Forward a bit. We’ve gone into these fishing communities that own the Children. The vast majority of the adults in these communities, by the way that owned the Children, were actually traffic Children themselves. So it’s a very vicious cycle, and we’ve taught them how to do aquaculture or cage fishing. So we’re able to grow about 10,000 tilapia in a huge cage, and we teach them how to do all of this and in trade for us showing them how to do this and giving in the capital for the cages. They voluntarily released the traffic Children back into their families of origin, So we rescued and reunited more than 160 Children back into their families. All of those kids are attending school now, and we’ve never had a child re traffic and in the fishing communities way have 15 fishing community partners, each one around 300 people. But our cages have actually increased the average family income by about 16% per family.

[00:27:58.69] spk_4:
So

[00:28:05.04] spk_0:
the fishing is much more efficient through the large aquiculture cages. And just a few men can do the work of many Children. So it’s really been a win win scenario for everybody

[00:28:11.64] spk_4:
Chris have brought. How big is the problem there? How many Children are trafficked on this on this lake owned by the fishing companies,

[00:28:32.58] spk_0:
they estimate 5 to 7000 Children that work as traffic Children, and it’s very small. Each one is there’s no like commercial fishing on the lake. You know, it’s just a guy out there fishing, so you could bring some food back for his family. You know, it’s very small scale,

[00:28:38.78] spk_4:
and they and they own these Children and they take them home with them.

[00:30:29.54] spk_0:
Yeah, they live in the fishing community with the deficient and most most all of the Children, with almost no exceptions, come from a single bomb, families where the husband has either died or left the woman and she has more Children than she can feed. And so our Children are literally starving and she can’t feed him all. She got 456 kids. And so she’ll send two of the Children off to work with the hope that it will let her get ahead so that she can go back and get the Children back. And with the promise from the fisherman, at least the Children will be able to have food every day. Which is Maur. You know more than they have when they’re living with the mom. And there’s a quote from a woman that is always stuck with me. And she wasn’t talking about Ghana. And she wasn’t talking about child trafficking, certainly. But there was there was a poem that she did, and her name probably gonna incorrectly burning, is worst in Worsen Shire Sires S H I. R E. And she was talking about refugees. But she had a line that she was born to Somali parents in Kenyan. She had this line that has never left me, and she says no one puts their child on a boat unless the water is safer than the land and that is so perfectly summarizes. The moms are Children find themselves in that They’re hoping against all reasonable hope that go. We’re at least the Children can have some food every day. We’ll be safer meaning Maur, you know, more predictable.

[00:30:33.14] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:30:38.94] spk_0:
well, getting in there without any food so that I mean, that’s really disciplinary find ourselves and And what’s so complicated? So I’ll

[00:30:44.88] spk_4:
say

[00:31:24.64] spk_0:
because I bet you’re gonna ask this question next so I’ll get out in front of you. The reason we’ve never had a child re traffic is because you’ve got a very holistic process where we have social workers all around the country geographically place guinea and social workers. And we’re very involved in the life of the families. Once we re integrate the kids so were walking alongside each family, helping them understand how they’re making money, how they’re bleeding money, how they can save money on their budgeting, finding a better place to live that caused less money. We do microloan for the win. It’s appropriate to help you make more money and really, really believe in sustainability on a family by family basis. So that power, in a scenario where we’ve not had any Children re traffics.

[00:34:04.70] spk_4:
Okay. Thank you. Thanks for sharing, Chris. Yeah, I need to take another break. And when we come back, we’re gonna go back to the book. I’d like to hear the story of the day care center in a nursing home, so Ah, hang on. Uh, tell that. Think about it. Okay. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at now. It’s time for Tony’s take two. I’m channeling you in this show in every show in every every episode. I am thinking about what small and midsize nonprofits need to know to succeed, whether it’s something related to fundraising or leadership or bored management or other volunteer management. Er, law, technology, you know, prospect research. You know, the gamut of topics recover. But what do you I want to know? Need to know about the topic. That’s what I have in mind when I’m looking for guests. evaluating guests that come to me, Thankfully, a lot about Do I get lucky that way? And when I decided, book a guest and talk to them, You know, What do you want to know? Need to know I’m channeling you. I trust that it’s succeeding because, uh, we got steady, steady, steady numbers, listeners. So I say a little more about this in, ah, my video, which you’ll find at tony tony-martignetti forgot my own domain. I’m so touched. I’m so moved. Yeah, I’m at tony-martignetti dot com, and that’s where the video is, too. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now let’s go back to be a disrupter. My guest is Crisfield, author of the book Disrupting for Good. So, Chris, would you share that story of the day care center in the nursing home? That disruptor?

[00:34:06.54] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s one of my favorite stories from the book.

[00:34:10.33] spk_4:
No, cool.

[00:37:26.03] spk_0:
I’ve gotten a chance over the last two years since I wrote the book, too, to give all over the country. Really. The story’s always tell because I love it So Seattle, Washington There’s a nursing home, a senior living center, and they bring a daycare and put it right in the middle of this nursing home. And so these residents, who are often lonely and you don’t have a ton of interaction with anyone other than one another during the day, are getting the chance to interact and hang out with the kid. And these kids whose parents are at work are getting a chance to hang out with these older residents. And something really amazing happened. I mean, yes, you know, a couple pictures that always put in my slide show on the big stage whenever I’m giving a speech, you know, it’s just straight picture of a little girl making a sandwich, a ham and cheese sandwich with this older gentleman. It’s a cute picture, but always say, What’s great is that this was so much more than a photo op. What ended up happening is that those residents in the senior living home that actually began to keep their memories longer because they were using their brains in a different way, and more consistently, when they were when they were interacting with the Children so much more frequently. And then the second thing that happened was the Children also benefited. The Children began to have reports from their parents coming back to the nursing home into the daycare facilitators, saying the Children were more empathetic, that they weren’t scared of people that were different than them, that they would walk right up to somebody in a wheelchair or with a walker or on crutches or a cane. Somebody with an oxygen tank they were carrying around, you know, little oxygen line to their nose. They weren’t scared of these people anymore. In fact, they felt really comfortable around him because they were spending time with him all day. And you have these older residents that are keeping their memory longer, reporting higher satisfaction of life. You get these young kids to a more empathetic. I mean, it’s a beautiful, beautiful vision of disruption and what’s funny and not in a good way. Frustrating really is a better word than funny. That this happened 25 years ago is when they started this project. His program you think about the number of nursing homes and day care have been built in America in the last 25 years. Thousands and almost none of them have followed model. In spite of its success. I think It’s a great reminder to me that just because something not being done doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done, because a lot of times we take the safer route we take the the route that is the path of least resistance. The road that’s the widest for the the road that has the most people walking down. And we just kind of follow along aimlessly instead of asking. Is this really the best road? And that’s what that story always reminds me is that there’s so, so much good that can come when we’re willing to ask some of those really hard questions.

[00:37:46.63] spk_4:
That’s a beautiful one. Um, it touched me, too. Ah, and the same frustration. What? Why? Why not? More of it. Um, what is that? Is that nursing home still still doing

[00:37:50.32] spk_3:
that program?

[00:38:29.70] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let me remember the name. Mount Mount Saint Vince. And I know it’s in the book Mount ST Vincent. They called the Inter Generational Learning Dinner and a CZ. Far as I know, it’s still still in operation and, you know, still still going strong. Yeah, they call it, uh, child care at the mountain. It’s an inter generational learning center, located within Providence, Mount ST Vincent in West Seattle and 400 older adults that live in the in the resident and five days a week. The Children residents come together in a variety of planned activities. Music, dancing, aren’t lunch, storytelling or just visiting.

[00:38:37.15] spk_4:
So you’re on their incredible,

[00:38:39.36] spk_0:
really, really incredible

[00:38:40.57] spk_4:
You’re on their site. It sounds like you just looked it up. Yeah, yeah,

[00:38:43.25] spk_0:
I was just reading that

[00:38:44.01] spk_4:
off. The Web site

[00:38:46.52] spk_0:
confirm that it’s still still in business since I wrote about him in the book

[00:38:49.62] spk_4:
store.

[00:38:53.71] spk_0:
If anybody’s up in that area, they should absolutely be Inter Generational Learning Center.

[00:39:45.57] spk_4:
Why, that isn’t an incubator for a ll the all the assisted living and nursing homes throughout the country. I mean, the image of, you know, 80 year olds, 90 year olds in wheelchairs chasing chasing I don’t know, 567 year olds around down the hall. It’s I think that’s the way you open the story. Um, yeah, I think it is, but yeah, I just love I love picturing that. I mean, I remember my mom, you know, a great place like that. And, uh, well, it was happy enough place. But there certainly wasn’t the joy of Children. And and the engagement that you’re describing that that has great outcomes for for the kids and and for the for the seniors. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Um,

[00:39:47.47] spk_3:
these are mostly most of stories

[00:39:56.58] spk_4:
in the book are sort of disruptors next door, you know, people that were not known, but to me, the most famous one. And I do know the guy you say in the book. You know, you probably don’t know who he is, but I have his two books. So why don’t we want to talk about Brandon Stanton?

[00:40:40.51] spk_0:
Yeah. Brandon Stanton. Which, if people I don’t know his name. They probably certainly have heard of humans of New York, which is a just incredibly successful community that Brandon Stanton has has Creative people aren’t familiar. They can easily go on to Facebook or Instagram. I think the last time I looked on on Facebook, the humans of New York Page had something like 18 million people who followed the page or

[00:40:42.15] spk_4:
something,

[00:44:30.96] spk_0:
which is incredible. But you know what? He’s what Brandon did was we went out into New York, use a photographer, and he says his own words, he says. He was a mediocre photographer, but he wanted to document, just tell. Different people live their life. All this variety in New York and you have all these pockets of humanity that’s just really beautiful. The diversity and kind of the tapestry that makes New York New York and so what he wanted to do was the photos and basically with just different people from around the city. And so that project never really got off the ground as much as you know, he would have hoped. But what happened was as he began talking to people and asking them if you could take their photos, the vast majority of whom said no way, of course, and kept walking and at hurry New York pace. What happened was the one who said yes. As he began to talk to them and take their photo. They began to just share stories, and over time he got better at asking better questions and one of his common questions that elicited one of most powerful responses from people. If he would say What is your greatest struggle right now? And people began sharing these really intimate, vulnerable, difficult things with him. I mean, just really important about some of the hardest things happening in their life. And they felt real freedom, you know, in doing that with him because he was a stranger. And so he began documenting the story on a on a Facebook page publicly, and he wouldn’t always show the person’s face, especially if there was somebody who didn’t want their, you know, to be connected to their story with their own faith. But a lot of time he would show the face, you know, And the person would say, Sure, this is the truth. I don’t mind if you put it out there. And so what happened was that there was something about this vulnerability, something about the beauty of the the shared human experience, even in its pain, that just resonated deeply with people. And just almost overnight, this became a viral sensation. And, you know, Brandon stands suddenly had this massive a group of people following him that we’re just hungry for this authenticity, which I would argue all of us are so desperate for this kind of authenticity. We have relationships a mile wide and an inch deep, and we’re Maur socially connected than we’ve ever been before. And we’re also lonelier and more anxious and more depressed than we’ve ever been before because we have kinds of of balls or fake connection in very little real connection. And even though this was happening through a computer and people didn’t know these people in real life, they felt a shared human connection because the content was so wrong and it was so real. And so what I really loved about that story and where I really thought Brandon was a disruptor, is He saw an opportunity to tell stories in a fresh way that anyone with a camera and an Internet connection could have done years and years before him. But he figured out a way to do it in a way that really resonated with people and what I love most about him. You mentioned the two books. She put them books out. He’s a true humanitarian. I mean, he’s used to. He’s used his stage, if you will, his platform to lend his microphone to people without a voice and really and up for those who are being oppressed and marginalized and stepped on and again. The best analogy I can use in the best illustration. He used his microphone in his stage for people who don’t have a microphone. And I really love that part of his story because it just really feels beautiful and redemptive for him to do that on behalf of other people could never repay him.

[00:46:30.27] spk_4:
I’m not surprised that his story moves you because I think you’re doing very much the same thing. Telling stories of telling stories of everyday people you’re you’re choosing the Disruption Channel, but destruction theme and you don’t have pictures, But you’re telling stories of everyday people and in terms of, you know, using his voice in his power. I mean, I I see you doing that in your work through ah, through with mercy project. Um, thank you. I gotta take our last break. And when we come back, we got to start talking. We may go a little long this time, letting everybody know may go a little bit longer than the typical hour, but we got to start talking about how we got to get into how to become a disrupter. We’re gonna talk about map was hang on our last break turned to communications, their former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists so that your call gets answered when there’s news you need to be on top of so that you stay relevant in your community. Among the work that you are doing former journalists, including with the Chronicle of Philanthropy they’re at turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time. We may go the long for Be a disrupter. Okay, Chris, uh, let’s zoom moved to the call to action part of the book. It’s not all moving stories. What is, uh, we can’t We can’t go into the detail of the book because people just got a by the book. I mean, that’s just a You got to get the book for the rich for the Ridge detail. We could just do an hour or so overview, but acquaint us with with map and maybe

[00:49:51.41] spk_0:
yeah, so it was really important to me that a not write a book that made everybody feel feel good but didn’t result in any sort of tangible action. I’m constantly saying talk less doom or talk, let’s do more. And I didn’t want to write a book where all I did was talk, but I didn’t empower people to go and do the doing because I think anyone hears the stories of Disruptors. Actually, before you and I got on this call, I spoke to a group of about 100 people here in my hometown, and I mean, they’re everyone’s like this is so inspiring on to be a part of this. I want to make a different thing. We all have that desire. So I really wanted to give people a framework for moving from how want to do something. I want to make a difference. I want to have more purpose and direction and persistent. I just don’t know how to do it. So I want to give them those tools. And so I created what I call the disruption map. You referenced it M a P. And here it’s really pretty straightforward, and I say it’s simple, but it’s not easy. And here’s what it hears what it requires, the first, the em of map dance for make a commitment. And this is where we have to be really honest with ourselves about those truths in our own life and our own families in our own non profit in our own community that make us uncomfortable. Things we know shouldn’t be the way they are things we no need to be better. We have to be really honest. We have to list all those out. I mean, we just gotta plow through and list all those out, even though it’s gonna be a long and an overwhelming list. What makes us uncomfortable? I could be simple stuff, tony. I mean, the thing is, we overthink this, but, you know, I mentioned before I’m a father of four young kids. One of my uncomfortable truth and parenting is that I’m on my phone too much, and I’ve got to be honest about that. I can’t just say Well, yeah, you know, I know I should probably use my phone last. You know, when I’m around, the kids never want them to feel like I’m not paying attention. But But here I am. Pull my phone out of my pocket checking email That doesn’t need to be checked. Checking Facebook. That doesn’t need to be checked. And so we all have those things to make us uncomfortable. Usually we just kind of shrug and say, Yeah, you know, Yeah, I guess that could be better. I know. I know. I could be more healthy or, you know, I know I could read. Maura, I know I need to do a better job following up with those donors. I get their donation, and then I don’t put him in a pipeline to follow up with them. And then when I have to go back to him next year, I realized I’m not talk to him for the last 12 money. We all have those things personally and professionally. So the first step, we make your commitment that we’re gonna we’re gonna write those things down, We’re gonna own him. We’re gonna embrace them. We’re gonna ride him down. There’s power in naming those things, not leaving him out in the universe out there, but actually writing them down. We gotta deal with it when it’s in front of us. And so we write it down. The second step is the A the action plan. And that is we choose one of those things. I think we should only choose one at a time, because otherwise we’re gonna get overwhelmed and not do it. We choose one of those things that matters to us. And we say, What is something I can do today, tomorrow, next week, next month in the next three months to change this uncomfortable truth into a new and better truth. And I like the smart goals, which is not my thing. I can’t take credit for this

[00:49:58.14] spk_4:
but

[00:50:14.52] spk_0:
ago gold setting program that basically gives you How do we set goals that are actually achievable? And so, uh, correct me if I miss one of these, Uh, but it’s gold. The smart chance for specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and timely

[00:50:16.81] spk_4:
time. Time bound.

[00:52:59.82] spk_0:
Yeah, time bounce. That means let me let me use my own example. Say I’m uncomfortable. But how much time on my phone? A terrible action step would be. I’m going to use my phone lead when I’m with my kids. Right? There’s no way we’re gonna ever fulfill that action step because we don’t even know what that means. What does less mean? I guess we could check our iPhone usage, but most of us aren’t gonna do that. So a much better goal would be something like this. When I get off work, I’m gonna plug my phone in my room and not check it again until the kids have gone to bed. No, that is specific. It’s measurable. It’s attainable. It’s relevant and it’s time bound. That’s an everyday going. So every day I can say, Did I do that thing I said I was gonna do yes or no. And 11 of two things is gonna happen. I’m gonna do it. And kudos to me. Now move on to the next thing or I’m gonna realize I like the idea of putting my phone away more than I actually like putting my phone away. And then I’m gonna have to deal with something else. What is? Am I addicted to my phone? Am I addicted to the control or the power that perceived power that comes from having my phone like, Is there something else bigger here? But I’ll never even get to that. If I don’t have a smart goal, it’s actionable, and that’s something I could do today. I mean, somebody listening today can go out. Shoot. I definitely am on my phone too much with my kids around. I can today plug my phone in my room and then we could okay this week I’m gonna go one day every weekend where I don’t even turn my phone on and we all go possible, right? Like it’s who can possibly do that. Well, I mean, we all could 20 years ago and all of our parents could, in all of our grandparent’s absolutely good. I mean, you know, it’s possible, but we can say, Did I do that? It’s an easy yes or no. And so you mentioned earlier tony about changing. We have the power to change, and I can’t take credit for this statement. But one of the most profound statement I’ve ever heard it. We change it or we choose it. And when there’s something we don’t like, like being on our phones, too much of their kids or not following up with her donors or not being healthy or not exercising, whatever that thing is when we know we don’t like it. But we don’t change it, we’re choosing it, and that is very different than feeling like, well, it’s just it’s just what happens. No, no, no, no. We’re choosing it.

[00:53:01.43] spk_4:
We’re

[00:53:30.58] spk_0:
choosing it or we’re changing in the action. Steps really require us to be honest. Like do we want to choose that thing we know we don’t like. Or do we want to change it because that’s the only two options that we either change it or we choose it. And so I don’t even have that language in my book because that’s something I’ve just discovered in last year, too. And I always use that line in my keynote, and I’m always watching people scram, scram, scribbled down, you know, because it’s profound to think about the life in that way. So we have the action step, and then the last letter

[00:53:34.97] spk_4:
You persist

[00:55:29.81] spk_0:
on map, and that’s for persistence. And I really came to both love and hate the truth that the one commonality I could find among every disruptor I identified. It was not their age. Like you said, 5 to 77 was not their education. It was not their money. It was not their acts testimony. It wasn’t the country they lived in. It was the only thing that bound them. The only thing that tied them together was their willingness to persist, and that means they didn’t show up one day and disrupt. They chose day after day after day that what they wanted to disrupt. The truth that made them uncomfortable was worth showing up day after day after day in doing something about. And I firmly believe that when you show up hundreds and thousands of days in a row with the same desire to change an uncomfortable truth into something new and better, that’s where the transformation happens. So I’ve joked that if I wrote another book right now, I would call it a persistent but not so secret sauce to transformation because the truth is it’s just hard to percent. I mean, it’s just hard to show up every day and remember what fake? But that’s what we have to do. That’s what differentiates people who like the idea of disruption with people who actually disrupt. That’s the one difference year. Everyone listening to this podcast to a person I would bet everything I own if they care enough about something to show up every day, remembering why they want to do something about it and what the state they will absolutely, uh, have transformation. They will experience transpiration that saying will become better from the uncomfortable truth. But so many people will not keep persisting because It’s hard. It’s just hard. And so we gotta own that. We got embrace it. If it was easy, we would have already done it. If it were easy, it would be uncomfortable. Truth. It would have been something we already dealt with. But it’s not easy. And that’s why we have to persist. So that’s the M A p of persistence that anybody anywhere can follow to become a disrupter.

[00:56:02.81] spk_4:
Excellent. Chris. I let you just go. Usually. Usually I’m more conversational. But I wanted you. I No, no, no. I you know, uh, had my consent. I wanted you to just go listen, Okay, We’re gonna wrap up, but I want to wrap up with I want you to repeat the two definitions you have for what a disruptor is.

[00:56:46.89] spk_0:
Great. So the first definition of disruptor, Someone who is uncomfortable with the truth. So they show up, take action and persist until a new and better truth is born. And the second definition of a disruptor is someone who dismantled accepted norms and forge is unimagined futures.

[00:57:22.23] spk_4:
That’s outstanding. I love the forges unimagined futures. You’re you’re, uh you’re quite a guy. I’m a move. I’m sort of in Aw, all right, Crisfield. His book is disrupting for good, using passion and persistence to create lasting change. Just get the damn book, for God’s sake, this is it. You’ll find his work Mercy Project at Mercy project dot net. You’ll find Chris at meat, Crisfield dot com and at disruption. Chris Chris Field Thank you so much. Thank you.

[00:57:25.46] spk_0:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. I enjoyed it. Thanks for everything you do for non profit leaders.

[00:57:50.64] spk_4:
Uh, what? Yeah, What an outstanding way too close. Are our innovators Siris next week? Heather? Yeah, Nando with five questions to ask before hiring a consultant. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by

[00:57:56.30] spk_3:
coca Mapping

[00:58:15.32] spk_4:
Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot C E o ah!

[00:58:58.66] spk_3:
Creative producer is clear. Myer off. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. We just started the music a little late, but that’s all right. I’ll take it off the studio Feed shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York You’re with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.