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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of Hypo Foria if I saw that you missed today’s show. Zombie loyalists. Peter Shankman is a well known and, uh, often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His book is Zombie loyalists. He want you to. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas, lots of interesting stories. I like to play this each year. Originally aired on December of twenty fourteen on Tony Steak, too. Time to be an insider, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash Pursuing by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers. Brechner cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is Peter Shankman and Zombie Loyalists. I’m very glad Peter Shankman is with me in the studio. He is the founder of Haro Help, a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment. Laura was sending out fifteen hundred media queries a week, two more than two hundred thousand sources worldwide. It was acquired by Vocus in two thousand ten. He’s the founder and CEO of the Geek Factory, a boutique social media marketing and PR strategy firm in New York City. Peters on NASA’s Civilian Advisory council. Well, you’ll find him at shanklin dot com, and he’s at Peter Shankman on Twitter. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid Fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to Non-profit Radio and the studio. Welcome, Peter. Get to be here, honey. Thanks. Pleasure. You live on the west side of Manhattan and you and you. There’s a There’s a pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get Wolfgang’s not far from, you know, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse, right? Morton’s Correct. Why is that more? I’m a zombie loyalist to Morton’s. What does that mean? I I love the service. The attention to detail, the quality, the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When I walk into that Morton’s or any Mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When I call one number in New York or anywhere in the world, it they know who I am by my cell phone. And I’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal. Uh, happiness toe here for me and my wishes are granted is aware that we have any happy hour holiday party coming up at Morton’s next couple days. And you know, as always, I forgot to call and make a reservation. You know, I called yesterday and said, Hey, I need a and she has to get a reservation for seven people. Now, you know, there’s a night at, uh, seven p. M. Which is, you know, the week of holidays. And they looked and they said, Oh, well. And then I guess their computer system kicked in. Of course, Mr Schenk non-profit I’ll get that for you right away. You know how it will have a great booth for you, That a lot, you know, and we’ll tell us names the people attending and, you know, you know, you know they’re going to specialize, menus for them and their names on. They really They have ah, really high level of service that they provide. Not just to me. That’s the beauty of it. You know, it’s one thing for everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing if they just provided to me. But they do that for everyone, and that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes a reservation and not that I’m special, I’m actually rather abnormal. But what a normal person makes a reservation and says, No more tests. Okay, greater. You celebrating anything? So yeah, it’s my wife’s birthday waiting. Always ask after anyone said, Oh, you know what, It’s my wife’s birthday. Great. What’s her name? And her name’s Megan, whatever. And you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu. It has happened, but they make it. And then Megan, whoever she happens to be, well, in the next forty five minutes, you know, taking fifty selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re going to go Morton’s you say in the book, You get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s why I want to start with that Morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the VIPs as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting going to tell that story. That’s a good story. But it’s a good story. Love stories. I was flying home from a day trip to Florida and was exhausted and starving, and they trip meaning you’re flying down a canoe down to six a. M. Lunch meeting flew back. Same day, you know, one of those one of those days. And, ah, I jokingly said The tweet. Hey, Morton’s What? You meet me at Newark airport when I land with a porterhouse in two hours. Ha ha ha ha ha! Um, you know, I said it the same way you’d say winter. Please stop snowing things like that. And I landed, Find my driver and said Next My driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the Mortons back, they saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a a steak and and, you know, as great of a story, is it? Is it that’s that’s It’s a great stunt, and it’s a great story, and it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing. But, you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering steaks to airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And, you know, if they just did that, if they just delivered the stake, the airport but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a store. So you know what they did for Peter. But you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings, and that’s that’s really, really important because what winds up happening, you have great experience in Borden’s. And then you tell the world, you know, Oh, yeah. Great dinner last night. That was amazing. I would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world where you know review sites are going away and I don’t I don’t need to go to yelp reviews and people I don’t know and you know if they’re shills. Whatever the case may be, I don’t know or trip advisor. Same thing. I want people in my network who I trust and people in their network who they trust. Then by default, I trust so and that’s going to that’s already happening automatically. You know, when I when I land in L. A and I type in steakhouse, you know, not me. I know I know where the steak house on telly. But if someone typed into Google Maps or Facebook Steak House in Los Angeles, you know, they’ll see all the steakhouses on Google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment positive will they see those first. And that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting out of photo Oh, my God. Thanks so much more in love. This. That’s positive sentiment. The network knows that. And so if you’re looking for a steak house, you know and your friend six months ago had that experience. Oh, my God. Amazing state. This great place. The sentiment will be there. And and and the network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly is through this awesome customer service of the customers. You you have say more about something. Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer. You know, You see all the ads, you know, the Facebook post. You know, we’re at nine hundred ninety. Followers are ten are one thousand. Follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s current saying screw you to the original nine hundred ninety followers Who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that one thousand. You know, that’s not cool. The the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. There. Ah, revenues go up are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer eight. Fifty two. It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How do you know? How are you? We notice that you posted on something about a, uh, you know, your car broke down. Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but you know, you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest, ah, outlet or whatever. And, you know, once, if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will you use the phone? Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that, that that really focus on the customers you haven’t made the customers you have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your And this all applies to non-profits. Certainly as well. The question, But even more so. Yeah. I mean, if you know non-profits constant worry about howto make the most value out of their dollar on how to keep a dollar stretching further and further. And, you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you. Who’s a non-profit who said to you, You know, we want to help here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple Hey, thanks for doing her, but actually reaching out asking what? Theywant asking how they like to get their information. Things like that will greatly increase your donations as well as making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are letting them to your p R for you. And that’s what a zombie loyalist does. And this is for this. Could be donors. Could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot. But giving time is enormous. And if you know if they have such a great time doing it, they’ll bring friends as as zombies. Do you know zombies have one purpose in life? A. Real zombies have one purpose in life. That’s the feed. It doesn’t matter how the Mets are doing it doesn’t matter, you know, because chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how, how anyone’s doing. You know what’s going on in the world economy. It doesn’t matter. What matters was zombie is where they get their next meal. Because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise, they will die zombie loyalist to the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom, they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know that one friend who eats eat nothing but the olive garden because, oh, my gods, greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know. And they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie loyalist. And you want them to do that for your non-profit. And there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touch and we’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with Peter Shankman. Gotta go away for a couple minutes. Stay with us. It’s time for a break. Pursuant, they have two. New resource is on the listener landing page, the field guide to data driven Fund-raising. That is practical steps to achieve your fund-raising goals, using data and case studies and demystifying the donor experience which guides you through creating the donor journey map and also includes stewardship strategies on landing page Tony dahna slash pursuant Capital P for please. Now, back to zombie loyalists. Peter, It doesn’t take much. Teo, stand out in the customer service world doesn’t really doesn’t you know? And the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, if you think about that book? I love this example. Whenever I give speeches, I ask, I ask everyone the audience like, who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise, their hands like, OK, what made it great and without fail there. And well, we took off on time, and I had The CD was a sign, and we landed on time and like So you paid for a service, They delivered that service and you are over the freaking moon about it, like, that’s the state that we’ve become. You know, that’s how bad customer service has been, that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were going to win. Nothing more less than twenty minutes in the post office line exam. And I’m ecstatic, exactly. You know, it’s it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good, just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else is crapping your one level above that, you’re going to win my favorite. My favorite jokes. Thie two guys air out in the woods hunting in the woods in the just jog. It was the first one sees a bear and they see this barren, barren, raised upleaf about to strike and the first one reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes. And it was the studio. Don’t be community. You can’t outrun a bear. And I don’t need to understand how wrong You know, I love that joke because it’s it’s so true. That’s the concept. You know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game. Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place, No question about it to create the zombie loyalists. Yeah. I mean, you have a You have a AA company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm, You know? I mean, lookit, lookit a cellphone companies, you know, they call them cause you have a problem, right? T or T Mobile. You call them your problem. They’re actually the customer service. We’ll handle Your caller actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly, they could get you off the phone, you know, not on whether or not they fix your problem fat, but how fast they could get you off the phone. Which means how many more causing everybody worked. When I worked in America Online, we all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But, you know, again, it’s just it was a system called Vantage for you to sign on and assumes you signed on. If you want to call, you know that was tacked against you if you were in a call and and it went over a certain amount of time that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked not in the favor. The customer. There are some companies out there who allowed there customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. You know, my favorite story about this Verizon Wireless. I went overseas, as in Dubai, and I landed two buy-in. I’m turning My phone had gotten global roaming on my phone, which you know, twenty bucks for every hundred megawatts. Okay, so I land and I turn on my phone and it says, like, before I’m even off the plane. I get a text that you’ve used two hundred dollars in roaming charges. What? How? You know, three hundred dollars by turning it off the planet. We’re something’s up here. So I called Horizon on a nice guy. Answer the phone and Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, the first thing that was Yes, sir. You do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in Dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global. That’s more hemispherical. Roaming, I think, is the issue. And so I said, Well, look, I’m gonna be here for a week. I said, You know what? You have my credit card bill. Me like cubine bilich a thousand bucks. And you let me have the phone for, like, a week, and you know that, You know, five hundred hours I won’t go over to gigs. Would just do something for me. Sorry, sir. I’m not authorized to do that. You can look so what I have is well, you can pay twenty dollars and forty eight cents a megabyte. I’m like I’m sorry, Seriously, which equates essentially, too. I will be charged twenty thousand forty eight seconds, three thousand forty eight cents for every I think the times for every four seconds of the video Gangnam style, if I decide to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So I simply hung up. I’m hung up on your eyes and I went down the street to the Dubai. The Mall of the Emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, is a freaking ski slope in that, and I’m not joking. And as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of like the eighty six different electronic stores in this mall, bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone. I have went next door to the local SIM card store, bought a SIM card that gave me twenty gigabytes of data and a thousand minutes of talk for forty dollars. I then put that in my phone because I it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for Google and everything imported. And Verizon did not get a penny on that trip. How easy would have been from Horizon to say, Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. They still make a lot of money off me. And I would tell the world how great Verizon wants to work with and how wonderfully, how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that I will never They will never make a penny from any international trip. And I take what, fifteen of them? A year? Because now my cell phone, um, my international cell phone that I bought all I do is pop out the SIM card on my land wherever I am putting a new SIM card. So and you’re speaking and writing and telling that story ports and rittereiser. And every time I tell the story about variety that make it a little worse. Apparently Verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. I read this in Internet must, you know? So? Not necessarily. But you know, the concept that all they had to do, all the energy was in power, Mark, and it wasn’t Mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me. And so it’s this concept, you know, And the funny thing is, it comes down. If you really want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like Verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility. Because the fiduciary responsibility of any company CEO all the way down the employees to make money for the shareholders future responsibly means by not allowing me. And they don’t allow a mark the customer service agent, to to help me on DH take a different tack. He’s actually losing money. Too many CEOs think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our numbers next quarter. I’m fired companies and other countries to anything with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because he okay, what can we do now that will have impact the next five, ten, fifteen years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and and augment and Cos America. Don’t don’t think about that. That’s a big problem. I’d buy a product line, has a lot of natural and recycled materials. Seventh generation, and they’re they’re tagline is that in in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an American Indian. It’s great. It’s a great line. I mean, just thinking about how much money Horizon would have made for me in the past three years over, just just my overseas, you’d be telling a story about like them about Morten like the one about things. Look, a lot of people listen to me and they went for a time when you Googled roaming charges variety when you Google Verizon roaming charges my story about, however, how I saved all this money really big came up first because I did the math. And if I had not called Mark and bought my own cell phone and done this, I would have come home with thirty one thousand dollars self-funding and you damn over rising wouldn’t know nothing about that bilich up. Too bad. Sorry about the fine print and plus the employee who sold you the quote international plan, right? I’m sure you told her, didn’t she said, Where you going? I’m going to Canada and I’m going to Dubai. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy Wass shevawn. We thought it was near Canada, but yeah, long story short. Couldn’t use it. All right, so employees have to be empowered. There’s to be. We have to be but changing a thinking, too. I mean, the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteers don’t volunteer. You get At the end of the day, where’s your money coming from? Looking for Non-profit or Fortune one hundred? Where’s the money coming from? You know, And if you no, we see it happening over and over again. We’ve seen what you’re seeing right now. Play out every single day with company uber on uber. It’s so funny because uber makes you know the value of forty million dollars right now. But that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything If people are running away in droves, which people are, there’s a whole delete your uber app movement that Lard mo God you people are doing. What’s the problem? Well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business, Insider, said he started the company, get laid. His goal was to always of a black car when he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that’s. He came out and said that and you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their God mode, where they can see they actually create. There was, Ah, don’t read this, my business insider, as well it was. They created a hookup page that showed, or, ah, Walk of Shame page that showed where good women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends, oneaccord believing certain place on weekends, going back to their home. It was obvious that they, you know, some guy, and I think they did that. And, of course, just there, their whole surge pricing mentality. Which is, you know, two days ago, there was a couple of symbolism the terrorists thinkers, Harris attacking in Sydney at that at that bakery, and Sidney, Uber and Sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know, and and they later refund it all was a computer glitch. I’m you know, I’m sorry. You have a stop button and you can when you see something happening like that there has to be someone in the office because you know what, Not cool. We’re going to take care of that and hit the stop button. And it was, Yeah, that tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. You know, I was having an argument with one of my Facebook page, facebook dot com slash Peter Shankman because they said, Oh, you know, So what? They don’t they don’t turn surprising. I have enough cabs there and, you know, people can’t get home. I said, I’m pretty sure that the on ly come, but I’m sure that no one had cab companies that I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs. Uber’s, whatever. Yet the on ly stories I read about companies screwing up during the event where uber, not Joe’s Sydney cab company. You know, I didn’t see him staring up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing. You got it. You got to respect your customer after, as we’re ah training for that, then not only trying to change that mine ships well in in trying to change that mindset. Rewards for custom for employees that do take go to go the extra mile. Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not going to get in. Try always to tell every one of my employees you’re never getting in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy. You’ll get fired for not doing it. You know you’re fired for not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking not doing everything that you could know. Ritz Carlton is famous for its calling the hires people not because whether they could fool the bedsheet, but for how well they understand people. Because in Wisconsin’s mind, it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic. And that it’s such a key word. Empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how much you’ve called customer service? Yeah. You know, I have to have to change my flight. Might my my aunt just died. I really Tio. Okay, great. That’s three dollars. I just wanted one hour earlier. You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half. A pound. That’s twenty five dollars. I just can you can you just cut me some slack. You know, So empathy and giving the custom, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions, and it is okay to make changes. And this is where a smaller organization has huge advantage. It’s easier to change that’s what kills me. You know, I go to these try to frequent small businesses. When can I go something Small businesses and they won’t. They act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they don’t have. Ah, like they want to be respected. Almost. They don’t have like, a sixty six thousand page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply, ah, do something on the fly. And yet for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating famous And what guys? You’re acting like a big You act like mega lo mart here, you know, And you’re not Mega lo mart and you’re just Joe’s house of stationary. Whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me. You’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have eighty five billion customers would come to the door after me, you know, But I have a pretty big network. And for a small business, two get killed socially as social becomes more and more What? How we communicate, you know, it’s just craziness. It’s, you know, we’re pretty much in a world, I think, where something almost hasn’t happened to you unless unless you share it. A joke that, you know, if I can take a selfie, was I really their? But it’s true, you know, we do live in a world where, you know, I remember God ten years ago, maybe not even not even ten years ago, I was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know, And it was like, running from that’s what I said, Yeah, carry my phone, right. And it was like a I think, a point eight megapixels. You know, it looked like I was taking a picture with a potato, but it was It was Thiss. I remember It was two thousand two and I was in Chase Bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller and I pulled out my video, you know? It was there The crappiest video you’ve received. I pulled out and I said, you know, I started recording and the one being the Catwoman In-kind wasn’t the woman behind the counter was talking to the customs saying, you do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now And the customers saying, I just wanted my balance. And Yuen, you manager comes over, I get this whole thing on my little crappy three g Motorola folk phone. And I remember I posted online and Gawker picks it up. I gave him my e mail. You know, my headline I put my blood was, you know, chase where the regulation ship is that Go out yourself, you know, And it was It just got tons of play on Gawker. Picked it up. It went everywhere. Totally viral. So it’s one of those things. He was just like, you know, this is in two thousand two. It’s twelve years later. How the hell can you assume that nothing is being with that. You’re not being recorded. You know, I I they were blowing. I sneezed a couple weeks ago, and, ah, not to get too graphic here, but I needed a tissue big time after I was done sneezing, never going through my pockets looking for desperate looking for tissue, like looking around, making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that with hoexter viral sensation, You know, I mean, I went God, I went to high school with eight blocks from here, right? If the amount of cameras that Aaron Lincoln Center today were there in nineteen, eighty nine, nineteen ninety, I’d be having this conversation entirely. I’d be having this conversation behind bulletproof myself. Yeah, so, you know, you’d be you’d be talking to you have to get special clearance to visit me. Pray, be it the super Max in Colorado. You know, it’s one of those things that you just like my kid who’s who’s almost two years old. Now, he’s gonna grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And I’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves. You know, I mean, God, the things that I thought, you know in in high school, I thought the stupid is in the world Thank God there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank God creating these zombie loyalists. And we’ve got to change some. We’ve got changed culture and thinking and reward zsystems. Let’s go back to the the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors? I love I love this analogy. And look, accufund analogy lets him in a bar and there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher. I got to go. You know, you don’t know me. I’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home. Let’s get it on. I’m impressed. I am that good Chancellor should get throw a drink in my face. Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this. That’s probably now lets us sue. Let’s assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know, no. Bored with Friendraising. And she’s over there talking to friends. One of her friends. Holy crap. That’s Peter Peter Shankman. I’ve heard him speak. He’s in this fantasy world. I’m single, too. He I think he’s single and he’s having this amazing guy. I know he has a cat. You haven’t. You should totally go talk to him. The very least I’m getting this girl’s number. That’s PR. Okay. And what are we trust more me with my, you know, fancy suit collar going over the seventies. Leaders in Hi, I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, Hey, we’ve been friends since their great I’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. You know, obviously, that that’s where good customer service comes into play. And that’s where corporate culture comes into play. Because if I have a great experience with you and at your company, I’m going to tell my friend when they’re looking, and I will stake my personal reputation. There’s nothing stronger, and these are the people who want to breed at Zoho. Willis. That’s stronger than advertising, strong of the marketing, and they’re going to share. People want to share that. Think about the Internet, runs on two things. It runs on drama, drama and bragging, hyre bragging and drama. And if you if you need any proof of that, you know go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened. You know, bad customer service, bad, whatever. But then look at all the good Hashtags. You know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we lose our seat. Oh, my God, I hate this air land on the worst airline ever, But when we get upgraded, right, hashtag first class bitches or whatever it is, you know it looks to me like that on the because we love to share. It’s on ly a great experience if we could tell the world. And it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well. We need to take a break. Wagner CPAs nufer The New Year. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s no longer got to be in person each quarter a witness CPAs, C. P A. We’ll cover topic that they are expert in. They know it top to bottom and you need a basic understanding of it. On January fifteenth, its revenue recognition for your grants and contracts. Regular cps dot com. Click Resource is then seminars. Now time for Tony’s. Take two. Yes, it’s time to be an insider for the New Year. I am kicking off this expanded guest interview. Siri’s these air going to be exclusively for non-profit radio insiders each week. Ah, go deeper into a topic with with a guest or will talk about a topic that we didn’t cover in the show. Interview videos are going to be on a private playlist and YouTube entirely for insiders to become an insider. Uh, like I said last week, sounds like something other people would make you pay for. I do not just go to tony martignetti dot com and click the Insider Alert button name and email. It’s all we need and you become a non-profit radio insider. Start at twenty martignetti dot com. And there that’s the center of the universe started. Start, and there and then that’s you never need anything else. Now let’s go back to Peter Shankman and zombie loyalists. Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are going to keep doing it. People will always share again. It goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and buy stuff, I can Me, I mean anything from, like, a bad experience, too. That content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah. You know, how many times have you seen companies fail? Horribly? You know, after major disasters, when companies or tweeting, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theatre in Aurora, Colorado. The Dark knight, The tweets. Hey, shooter’s. What’s your plans for this weekend? You know, and I’m just going, Really, You know, But of course, the thing was, the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the so wait, we’re society. Like I said earlier, that loves to share when when great things happen once but love to tell the world when we’re miserable because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Arika It’s funny you mentioned generosity. Siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture. And somehow, when you’re just doing your job because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job. But you don’t realize there are ways to get around that. I listened to your podcast, among others, when I’m running through Central Park and more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through Central Park. But I get there. I’m in Iron Man have it And so I go to Central Park and it’s super early in the morning cause I usually have meetings and I dont run fast. I run like I really dont run fast, but but as I’m running. But let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of Iron Man. I have try that. The thing I do, I do it. You know, my mother tells me that I just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports I should do. But on the flip side, I’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, you know. But so I’m running through Central Park. Last year it was February February of thirteen and fourteen of this year, and it was around four forty five in the morning. Because I had a an idiom, meaning and had to ten miles. So four foot every morning running about but labbate around nineteen. Seventy ninth eightieth Street on the east side in the park and a cop pulls me over. Andi says, What you doing? Look at him. You know, I’m wearing black spandex. I have a hat. It’s five degrees. I don’t wantto playing checkers, you know? Well, you know, I’m like, I’m running it. He’s like, Okay, can you stop running? I’m like, okay, seeking the park’s closed like no time. Look, I’m in it. Look around. There are other people who know part doesn’t open this exam like he’s ago. Would you have any idea? And you’re like, No, I’m running. He does what you name I’m like, Seriously, look, I’m writing you a summons. I’m like you ready? Metoo sametz for exercising. I just want to clarify that you’re writing metoo. And sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in Central Park before it opened. The charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, I’m like I get the concept. The curfew is to keep people out after two. A. M. It’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like, I’m not carrying, you know, a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp. I’m not smoking. I mean, I’m doing something healthy, and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um and I said, you know, I’m gonna have a field day with this. I said, I kind of have some fathers. There will be a lot of fun. I’m not. You know, You’re just doing your job, sir, even though you have the discretion not to, but Okay, So I go back home, take a picture, might take it, email it to a friend of mine in New York Post, You know, front page New York Post next day. No running from this ticket, you know, in your times covered it. Runner’s world covered. I mean, I went everywhere, gawk uncovered it, you know, And my whole thing was just like, Dude, you have discretion. Look at me. You know I’m not I’m not even going super fast, For God’s sake, I’m just just trying to actual size here, you know? And of course, I went to court and I beat it. But how much money that cost the city for me to go to court, fight this thing, you know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion, of power, of empathy, to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen. And again, small shops So much easier to do. Yeah, flatline flat organizations. I work with a non-profit animal rescue Non-profit. A friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. No, I can’t. But there’s a friend of mine, Scott, ever. And she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate in her memory to this non-profit. So I sent him a check. And about three months later, I get a coffee table book of mail. And I was living by myself the time I didn’t own a coffee table of you. No more money to spend on my flatscreen and I Ah, remember I call I look at this coffee table guy throw, I throw in the corner. I look at it over next couple days. It pisses me off. And how much? How much of my donation did it cost to print? Man produced this book to me, and so I called them up. Well, sure, we believe most of our donors are older and pry prefer to get a print version, as opposed to, like, digital. You know where they throw it away like you don’t traditionally, but okay, I’m like so So you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in you’ve asked all. You know, we just assume the most dumber older. I’m like I open my mouth on of joining your board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor-centric get their information and shock of shocks. Ninety four percent said online. And so over the following year, we launched Facebook page, Twitter page zoho flicker account YouTube. Everything. P s the following year for that donations went up thirty seven percent in one year in that economies right ran away. Tonight, donations went up thirty seven percent in one year, and they saved over five hundred thousand dollars in printing Malian reproduction. Imagine going your boss, boss revenues up thirty seven percent and we save the half million dollars in Boston about you’re really good. Yah! You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they want. We have tons of tools for segmentation. My God, you’ve gotta listen to what segment you want people want to be. You know, someone someone asked me that. A show? What? What’s the best way I knew nothing about their company? What’s the best social media left me to be on? Should be on Twitter shevawn Facebook, I said. I’ll answer that question If you can answer this. This this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese Gouda or the number six they don’t understand. That’s not a real question like neither is yours. Like I can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience, can I said, Go ask your audience. Believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station. The Midwest come and go. I just love the name Kumo Angio and their tag around But you can read more about the tagline is always something extra I think Come on the jokes just write themselves for God’s sake But they don’t take themselves to see really love that come a ghost knowing the name of the company gas station. And you know I remember there in Iowa and I went to visit a friend and I and I was like, You’ve got to get a photo of you in front of Coming goes on. And the beauty of this is that, and some of their employees actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. We start to go. You know what? You use Twitter or Facebook and they say, Oh, you know, and they record the information and they know it. Customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel invested. They feel invest in your company. They feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non-profit, requested their their their questions and they feel like they’re nufer Harrow. Every month we have a one question Harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey. And it was we’d get, like, a thousand people respond. I’d spend the entire weekend emailing. Everyone responded, thanking them personally. In-kind hyre weekend. But it was great, because we’ll wind up happening. Is that, you know, if we took their advice and launch it on Monday with the new thing, they Oh, my God. How did this? They took my advice. Yeah, was your advice to a hundred other people advice. But we took it and they don’t like it. And it just It just made them so much more loyal. And they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in. There were days I got there days where I was in temple. One morning, the garment center synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal. And I’m starting her on. I look at it, it’s almost on fire. It had frozen because we were mentioned in Seth Gordon’s morning blogged on. And at that time I was getting emails. Every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was like overheating. I t at the battery and like reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new fourteen thousand subscribers in like three hours have seen some scene. We got to take a break. Tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You get a long stream of passive revenue when cos you refer, process their credit card transactions through Tello’s go to landing page, watched the video, then send potential companies to watch the video. If they use, tell us you get fifty percent of the fee for each card transaction. It adds up the video. Is that tony dot M a slash Tony Tello’s I can’t do the Live Listen Love live, but the love goes out were pre recorded this week. But the love is going out. I mean, for God’s sake, you know, it’s going out. If you’re listening, live, that’s you. Thank you, Love goes to you whether you’re from Northvale, New Jersey, New Bern, North Carolina or Sacramento, California or abroad. Of course, if you’re in Mexico City, if you’re in Iran, ifyou’re in Egypt If you’re in Germany, China, Japan, Brazil, live, love goes to you Doesn’t matter where you are It goes on the podcast pleasantries. They’ve got to go to our over thirteen thousand podcast listeners each and every week. It’s amazing pleasantries to you the podcast listeners. Now back to Peter Shankman. You say? Excuse me? You say that customer service is the new advertising. Marketing NPR. Yeah, it really is. Well, again, you know, if we’re moving to that world where so imagine a lot of limp and I love that. I can use this. Now imagine a lot of lamp latto. Lamb has water, oil and a heat source. Right. Heat source heats the oil, The oil flows with water. It makes pretty colors. I’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high. Now I’ve heard. Now imagine if Crystal’s Imagine if you’re ah, everyone you meet in your network. Okay? He’s a drop of oil. The water is your network. And what is your world? Everyone you meet in your network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice cream with local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids, second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network. You know, right now, when Facebook for started, I would see the same weight from a kid. I was junior high school, his posted at the same weight as, like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything my friend from junior high school’s doing having talked to in fifteen years, Facebook setting a lot smarter as Google. Now I see the people I communicate with the most okay, And if I if I reach out to communicate with new people, they start rising and my feet in my stream. If I don’t, they fall. It’s just like a lot of laughs. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil. That heat source at the bottom that’s rising. Raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance, so imagine the heat sources relevance. And the more I interact with someone, the more the higher they go in my network in, the more I see of them, the more trust level. There is when I’m at a bar and I meet someone at a restaurant. Unconference I meet someone I don’t need to connect them. I don’t need to go on Facebook, friend request, you know, awkward friend requesting is when you stop and think that lesson. My friend requested some of the real world with second grade. Will you be my friend? My daughter is doing that because, you know, it’s like cat, Will you be my friend? Kind of the captain will be here. But you know, it’s this awkward thing. Who the hell friendly west someone? If I find hang out with you the bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out to dinner and we’re having a good time for friends. I don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away. Friending Following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if I meet with you and I have a good time with you and we talk again if I use your business. If I go to your non-profit, If I donate, if I volunteer, whatever the network knows that the more I do that the more interact with you, the more you have the right to market to me. And the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more I will see information about you, the less I will have tio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends, Zia, you’re going to fade. I don’t Unfriend, you just disappear. Unfriending is also dated a woman We broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. There was one from the other one because it’s just awkward. So the whole kapin friend of me. But you know, the causes of not having to do that of just you know, okay. I haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see your post anymore. The real world, that’s how it should be. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, Yeah, they can start to defect. No question about our wonderful gonna spend a little time on If you’re not reading now, you’re talking to them, giving them what they want, talking about their information, helping them out. They will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is, you know, if I have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years, and then all of a sudden over time, I’m noticing less and less that restaurant’s doing less and less tio, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change. And I don’t feel that, you know, I’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come. So you know, Peter, because if I tweet some, like, Wow. Can’t believe I have to wait forty minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else a smart restaurant, they’re following me and they’re going great, you know? Appears No, wait. No way over here. Why don’t you come to blacks? Lorts we’ll give you a free drink, you know, you know, and that right there that’s first sign of infection and I might become infected by another pan of the company becomes a little less for them. And so let’s take you have a lot of good examples. Let’s take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customers understanding when they’re not happy and fixing the situation before it escalates. You can contain a small outbreak, a small outbreaks. Well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people, finding out what the problem is. Getting him to one room, fixing their problem. Healing them. You have a good, uh, united story right back. When was Continental? I was a frequent flyer and booked a trip to Paris. Andi, I was very angry because they charged me four hundred dollars looking for you. I remember what it was. And then I called the CEO. I just just for the hell of it. I’m like I’m going. I wrote a letter. An email before social. Right friend wrote an email. The CEO, like this? Ridiculous. I’m freaking fired-up like three months later, my phone rings. Hello, Peter. Please hold for Larry Kellman, CEO of Coming Little. And I’m like, Oh, crap. You know, And I got your telephone. He’s like Peter hated misjudgment. Doing started letting these freezes their new way. We sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna weigh them for you. But if you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and end of the phone the next forty minutes. What is staring at it like holy crap? Larry killed on the CEO of United Airlines just called me and talk to me, and it was like it was like God coming down and say you now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous. And so, you know, I have been faithful to Continental and now United ever since on DH. They continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re they’re improving. They were getting a lot of crap over the past several years and that there really are starting to improve its nice to say and not only of course, your own loyalty. But you’re Oh, my God, How zombie loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s unquote fired-up latto bradrick attract so many friends to united. I’ve made so many friends. I mean, my father, you know, he only fleshing out it now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom on the Internet, and I only drink my wife. You know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way. We gotta go away for a couple of minutes When we come back. Of course, Peter and I’m going to keep talking about his book comes out in January. Zombie Loyalists. Time for our last break. Text to give. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source? Here’s a second way mobile E-giving You can learn about it with texted. Gives five part email. Many course. Get them over five successive days. You’re only five emails away from raising money through mobile giving. This will dispel a lot of myths for you around Mobile giving. It’s cheap to get started. Its easy for your donors. Text NPR to four four four nine nine nine To get that many course, we’ve got several more minutes for zombie loyalists. Here they are. You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes. Netflix. They’re both. They’re both in the book. So it’s so one leaving. If you know if, you know, start the cure. One leaving. Yeah. And then that’s the thing. You know, the little experience. Maybe the Internet with the hashtag, everything like that. You know, it doesn’t take a long time for those things to sort of blow up in your face. And, you know, the other day everyone say, Oh, you know, Twitter’s responsible for for us losing another not you’re responsible for you losing. Yeah, yeah. And if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions don’t speak well of who you are, then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know, And it was all social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know. Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and Netflix are good example because they they bounce back. They took responsibility, and yeah, they both owned dominoes, came out and said, You know what? You’re right. Our pizza. And we do have a problem. We’re going to fix this. And they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now, I may or may not even ordered the Maroons in awhile. And I live in New York City. That’s that’s a that’s a sacrilege. But, you know, I have the app on my phone from oversea. No traveling somewhere being should bring or whatever. And you know what? Do you get it eleven thirty at night when your flight’s delayed me landed dahna. Which reminds me, I should go exercise on the flip side. Looked so much like Netflix. They they also were screwed up. You know, they were losing that trial switch between the two. They came up with a new name, and it was so gross and public. Oh, man. And so and again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now, so we really need to see if they’re able to repair themselves. Listening is important, but both those both those two examples they’d listen to their customers. Think there’s a problem with listening? Because everyone’s been saying, Listen, listen, listen, for months and years and years and years now. But you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listen, just listen. Actually, follow-up, you know, it’s one thing to listen, You know, I used to love my wife. I could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But I don’t actually say anything back. She’s a smack right, you know, and go to the other room. And so you really have to. It’s a two way street, you know, listening is great, but can’t respond. And look, I think further. And I was like, Oh, Twitter, so great because someone was complaining on Twitter and we went online. We we’ve saw the complaint that we fixed their problem in. Yes. How about if the problems exist in the first place? You know, because the great thing about Twitter is that, Yeah, people complain on Twitter. The bad thing about it is there complaining about you on Twitter. So it’s like, what if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if what if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that I didn’t have to tweet? Hurts is my favorite story of all this for I used to rent from her. It’s religiously and then I went to AA Phoenix. Sky Harbor Airport has past April and I gave it. I was giving a speech and go on. My name’s supposed be on the board. You know, second grade, that car, and it wasn’t okay. What happened? I’m going upstairs. I weighed forty minutes on the VP line. After forty minutes, they finally say, You know, there’s a on ly one guy here. A lot of people might have better chance we go to the regular line. Okay. Probably told us that a little earlier in the regular spent forty five minutes waiting the regular line. It’s now been. Are you tweeting while this is happening? Well, I had to know, I was actually not only tweeting, I don’t have time to create a MIM. That should give you some idea of how long I was online with myself on those offgrid enough. That means I get to the counter. I can help you. Yeah, I was downstairs. The VP doesn’t tell me. Oh, you via preservation in upstairs. Like Yeah, OK, let’s let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here, like, right? They have to help you. Well, it’s not, Really they You guys for the same company? I mean, I could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to go to the next, like you just next to me. Okay. So if you know anything about Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, all of the rental car coming through on the same place Yeah, so I walked fifty feet. It’s a bus, Takes you to the big bang a civilian where they’re all next week. I walked fifty feet from the cess pool of filth in depravity that was hurts to the wonderful Zen garden of tranquility that was Avis. And in four minutes I had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named Phyllis, who was sixty six and moved to Phoenix from Detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me. She smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said, That’s another refugee from Hertz and I said, This happens a lot. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, You think they have done something about that. And so on the way out in Avis, I thank them. I walk past her. So I shoot on this, you know, sort of look at the look of the beast. I get my Avis carnage at my hotel. Wanted to Tel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience called Peter and hurts in the terrible, horrible. Nobody could really bad customer experience. What, you have a kid. You find out we’re writing titles about your blood post that I have to do with kids books I do not like hurts, Sam. I am. And and I included in this block post The five things I’d rather do than ever rent from hurts again. I think number three was was ah, ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. With, just, you know, and it’s a bit. But of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. Oh, Miss Jay Manuel, This is ahead of North American customer service. I saw your butt. I’m like they’re like, you know, we’d love to have it make no like you’re not going to fix the problem. Number one sametz Davis car. I’m never going back to her. Number two through a five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me is a customer for life. A customer who have been so happy and I would have loved you. Five people blew it. So don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to know. What you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens. Because five people, it takes every single employee to keep your company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, P s Avis reached out to thank me personally, and I am now just this ridiculously huge, loyal fan of Avis and always will be. You have a pretty touching story, but when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really Yung wei. Have a couple of minutes Tell that tell. That could stay. That was in the East side, which again is yet another reason why I live in the West, that nothing good ever happens in Manhattan’s east side. So I was I was working and I can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that I think back in the I C B Y. No, no tcb. Why was the country’s best yogurt? The countries I C. B. I. Why was a poor I can’t believe that you can’t believe is that your family was yogurt was a poor attempt to capitalize on his teamviewer working in this store and I go in every day and make the OK to clean the floors. I do, you know, a typical high school job, and it was during the summer and houses people walking by things like Second Avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hyung from, you know, there was awning, right? It’s only that there, and they’re the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished, ever. And I found I found some brass polish in the back with all the beer in the back and went after anyone outside. And I’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was if the Poles were shiny, people saw them. Maybe they come in the store. Maybe they’d want toe, you know, buy more screenplays. And the manager came out. What the hell you doing? Told him what I thought I’ll pay you to think inside. You know, like there’s no customers in there. Okay, I’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast and I quit. I just quit that job. I mean, like, I couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise bring fifty grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds? It took a little elbow grease to make the police claim that might bring in more customers. What the hell You know, But you’re not paid to think you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, I just I I encourage if any kids listening Those teenagers, if you if you boss says that to you quit quit. I will hire you. Just quit it. Probably worse thing in the world that you could possibly do because you have customers who you have customers who every day could be helped by people who are paid to think. And that’s the one you want. We gotta wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do. I get paid to talk. I mean, my God is the same stuff I used to get in trouble for in high school, but on a bigger picture, What I really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. I run a series of masterminds called Shank Mines, Business masterminds, shank minds dot com There, daylong seminars around the country and I had some kind of meat. You know, I took your advice about X, y Z, and I started listening little more. And I just got the largest retainer client I’ve ever had in my life by a factor, for she goes, and I just can’t even thank you. Never said gorgeous by-laws akhilesh. Like, I can’t even thank you enough. Oh, my God. Being able to help people, you know, at the end of the day, we’re I’ve yet to find another planet suitable for life. I’m looking so we’re all in this together. And if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more? You know, there really isn’t a need to be, as do she is as we are as a society. We could probably all be a little nice to each other, and you’d be surprised if it’ll help. The book is Zombie Loyalists, published by Pal Grave. McMillan comes out in January. You’ll find Peter at shankman dot com and on Twitter at Peter Shankman. Peter, thank you so much. Pleasure is mine. Thank you. Always loved the zombie loyalists. Show Peter Shankman. Thank you so much Next week. Customer loyalty with Curtis Bingum. See the relationship there was. This show was put together, Man. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing Capital P where you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Read your cps dot com by tell us they turned credit card and payment processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Lee Boyd says the line producer shows social media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our reb guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn. You with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Hyre.