Mr. Wake Up Excited, Go To Bed Fulfilled, Returns

Tony Martignetti
Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I'm your aptly named host and the podfather of your favorite hebdomadal podcast. Oh, I'm glad you're with us. I'd be forced to endure the pain of dextroclination if I saw that you missed this week's show. Here's our associate producer Kate to tell you what's up.

Kate Martignetti
Hey, Tony, I'll be happy to. Wake up excited, go to bed fulfilled. That's what Eric Saperston wants for you. In this archived show from October 17th, 2022, he returns after many years to share his wisdom born of research over cups of coffee with some of the most successful folks on the planet. Plus, there's his book, Live In Wonder. We can always use Eric's inspiration and empowering. On Tony's Take Two.

Tony Martignetti
I'm at NTC.

Kate Martignetti
We're sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters' generosity? DonorBox— fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit. donorbox.org. Here is Wake Up Excited, Go to Bed Fulfilled.

Tony Martignetti
It is a genuine pleasure to welcome back Eric Saperston to the show. He is an award-winning filmmaker, bestselling author, executive coach, keynote speaker, and host of the new series 3 Things. You may have seen him on the Today Show, CNN, or Headline News, or in the New York Times, National Geographic, or the Wall Street Journal. He continues to interview world leaders, tycoons, visionaries, and pioneers to understand the common traits that make them successful. He's @EricSaperston and at ericsaperston.com. Eric, welcome back to Nonprofit Radio.

Eric Saperston
Yay, Tony, what a pleasure to be, uh, back with you, my friend.

Tony Martignetti
10 years.

Eric Saperston
That's— some people would call that a decade.

Tony Martignetti
It was, it was February 2012 last time you were on. We met at the thing called the NextGen Charity Conference in New York City, uh, and I've been following you, uh, since. I've got your film we're going to talk about. You've, uh, you've been living a life of wonder. We're going to get to that book called Live In Wonder, um, but I, I've got to ask you about Wake up excited, go to bed fulfilled. Give us some, some, you know, we have a full hour together, so no need to, no need to squeeze it all in here, but like high level, how can we wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled?

Eric Saperston
Well, what a great question. I think for me, first and foremost, you know, I grew up, um, my father before I was born had a stroke. He was 28 years old and he had a stroke. Before that, he was playing minor league baseball for the White Sox. He was a top CEO executive. My mom was a stay-at-home mother. And at 28, my dad went into the doctor, found out he was bleeding in the arteries. They had to do a surgery on him, and he came out paralyzed on the entire left side of his body. And my mom, who was a stay-at-home mother, became the breadwinner for our family. My dad crippled, was really in dire straits and depressed and had a real hard go. And then 4 years later, I wasn't planned. I have an older brother and a sister that are 6 and 7 years old. But even though my dad was paralyzed, he still had some things functioning.

Tony Martignetti
Not 100% paralysis. All

Eric Saperston
right. I was born as a surprise and came into the world with a father that was crippled, a father that was jaded, a father that was angry. And upset for not, you know, and rightfully so. He was an athlete and a participator in life, and all of a sudden, he was regulated to have to really crawl through the world, and it wasn't a pleasurable experience for him. And one of the great lessons that I learned from growing up like that is around suffering. And there's all kinds of suffering. There's suffering that's thrust upon you, like being paralyzed, and then there's internal suffering, mental suffering. One of my personal missions is to reduce suffering and increase joy in people's lives. And I looked at my dad who was struggling, and I thought, well, he's got a lot of wisdom and he's very smart, and I'm grateful to be his son. And he's not waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled. And that's something that called to me. I wanted to do that. And so, Out of college, I realized that I wanted to learn how to do that. And not knowing it myself because it wasn't modeled for me, that's when I came up with this idea of traveling around the country and calling up the most passionate and successful people in the world and asking them out for a cup of coffee so I can learn from them how to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled. And so, I've learned a tremendous amount. And I think that's one of the reasons why people bring me out now to give speeches and coach executives. do all the things is to help people do that. I think the world right now is, for me, from where I'm sitting, when I look at most people, I see most people going to bed exhausted and waking up tired. And then they put that on repeat over and over. And all of a sudden, you know, a week goes into a month and a month goes into a year. And all of a sudden, before you know it, it's been a decade of doing that. And I think that's a tragedy. I think that life is such a beautiful gift. And that we're here to live it. And I think it's important to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled and live every day like it's your last. And a big part of that, you asked me, what can you do to do that? I would say 3 things in particular. One, I would say that it's all about our language, that we use our language and the stories that we tell to shape and create and design our life. And most people are using disempowering language. to describe their life, and they're getting disempowering results. And if we use empowering language, we can have a better shot at creating empowered results. So, we play a game called Up the Language and Elevate the Story. And the higher we can tell, the better story that we can tell about our lives, the better our lives become. So, that's number one. Number 2 on what it takes to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled, I would say it's all about being really clear about the standards, guiding principles, values, definitions, and commitments of who we are. One of the metaphors I like to use is that, again, when I look around the world today, I see a lot of rudderless boats. And we all know what happens to a boat without a rudder. People have become rudderless boats. And when a boat doesn't have a rudder, it drifts. It's at the whim of the elements. The news can impact it. A story can impact it. And people are being spun around. That's why I think people are going to bed exhausted in And what I've learned from talking to the most successful people in the world is that they're clear. And they weren't clear when they became successful. They got clear on the way because that became the rudder of their boat and they became the captain of their vessel. And they were able to carve through all kinds of scenarios to be who they are because they know what their definition of success is. They know what their vision is. They know what their mission is. They know what the values that push and drive them to do what they do. Yeah. And so, they're able to navigate through all kinds of storms. They know their commitments. And I think one of the things that I'm seeing as I'm coaching all these executives around the world is that no matter how successful the executive has become, people need a good checkup. They need an opportunity to kind of reevaluate, who am I? What am I? What do I care about? What's important to me? And get really clear about that. And with that comes confidence, self-esteem, velocity, ease. And the third thing I would say that helps people wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled is definitely one of the big ahas for me after studying the common traits of extraordinary people now for many, many years. One of the big epiphanies was that the people who wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled and live extraordinary lives for decades are people that have maintained, celebrated, and share their sense of wonder. with the world.

Tony Martignetti
Hmm.

Eric Saperston
That we have become a society that has become cynical and jaded and bored and disillusioned. And all that is because somebody has sold out their sense of wonder. Wonder is a birthright that all of us have. Every single child on this planet was born with a sense of wonder. It is our first value. It is about being curious and innovative and exploratory and living life as an adventure. And some people are born with it and keep it and nurture it and celebrate it and go on to live extraordinary lives. And other people let, like, you know, get punched in the gut and let the wind get knocked out of them, let the wonder get knocked out of them, and then they become cynical and jaded and depressed and all those kinds of things. So, I think this world right now, one of my big invitations is for everyone to do whatever it takes to reclaim their sense of wonder, that childlike curiosity, that awe, that playfulness, and approach life from that place. It brings vitality, life force, and aliveness, which I guess ultimately, to answer your question, if you put all those together and a few other things, I think you have a greater chance of waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled.

Tony Martignetti
You make my synesthesia kick in. I get some tears listening to you. Especially the last, the third, especially the third, Live In Wonder, reclaiming that childhood curiosity, sense of wonder. I have to share with you that I've been sharing your— I'm going to call it a mantra. Maybe it's not your mantra, but the mantra: wake up excited, go to bed fulfilled. In my work, I am often talking to people who are 70 and over because I'm doing planned giving fundraising for my clients who are nonprofits. And they're the people who leave the nonprofits in their wills and their trusts and their life insurance. They're typically over 70 or so. So, I shared this mantra with 2 women and they both wanted to write it down. One was 84. And the other, I told it to her on her 99th birthday. I was with her just a couple of weeks ago celebrating her 99th birthday. And I told her about the aspiration to wake up excited, go to bed fulfilled. And both of them— and she wrote it down. This is how a 99-year-old remembers things. She would write it down. She would think about it. And the 84-year-old, that was a phone conversation, but same thing, she wanted to write it down. So, it's inspirational to folks who are over 84 and over, and including a 99-year-old that I shared it with. So, it is such a beautiful aspiration.

Eric Saperston
You know, it really came to me organically. I was, you know, you mentioned that I made a movie out of college. For those folks, I guess, that don't know about it, you know, I graduated from college and My— I, I had gone to college not planning to go to college. I really was— that wasn't really in my focus yet. I ended up going to school, and then not only did I go to school, uh, I, I excelled. I became a student body president and a fraternity president and a resident advisor. I ran the volunteer center, a big advocate. I've been volunteering for a long time.

Tony Martignetti
Where did you go to school? Shout out your alma mater.

Eric Saperston
San Diego State.

Tony Martignetti
SDSU, San Diego State University.

Eric Saperston
And Grossmont College before that. I went to a community college. Like I said, I didn't plan to go to college. I went to community college first, then went to San Diego State. And volunteering has been a part of my soul for a long time. It was when I was a kid volunteering, volunteered for the Special Olympics. I ran the volunteer center. I ended up getting invited to run with the Olympic torch because I was a volunteer. And volunteerism led me to being a speaker at the AmeriCorps conference, you know, for the Martin Luther King National Conference on Service, which then I ended up meeting Coretta Scott King. And then I ended up meeting the director of the FBI, Bill Sessions. And then he introduced me to Governor Richards, and Governor Richards introduced me to Henry Winkler, the Fonz. And then that led to a development deal with Walt Disney Studios. And then it turned our journey. We were traveling. I was— I kind of jumped ahead, but I was, I was in college.

Tony Martignetti
We're going to talk about— I graduated. Yeah, we're going to talk about van life. We're going to get, we're going to get the van life. But

Eric Saperston
no

Tony Martignetti
doubt about it.

Eric Saperston
All right. I think people like to say I was van life before van life was a hashtag.

Tony Martignetti
Yes, before we even had hashtags.

Eric Saperston
Right before. Exactly.

Tony Martignetti
There was such a thing as a hashtag. It was a pound sign. It used to be a pound sign. That's right. At a butcher, you would get a pound, like 3 hashtags, 3 pounds. And then that got converted to a hashtag. And now pounds, I guess, is just LB. Yes, when, when #Pounds was represented by today's hashtag, you were, you were living van life.

Eric Saperston
I was, I was indeed. So I guess for the, for the, just to recap the movie. So the movie where I graduated college, I took, and instead of getting a job because I felt like I achieved a lot in college and I wasn't so ready to go, uh, get a corporate job or go to graduate school, I decided that I was going to take a year off and follow the Grateful Dead and work a ski season in Aspen. So, I took my golden retriever, Jack. I bought an old Volkswagen bus, and the two of us set off across the country. Before I left, my mentor in school challenged me, and he said, hey, Eric, what can you do to make the trip more meaningful? I mean, I get you're going to go party and play, but you're already good at that. What can you do that would provide value on this journey to yourself and others along the way? And he really dropped a great question that changed the trajectory of my life. And so, I thought about it, and I thought about my life, and I thought about how my father was crippled and I grew up in a house like I did, and I thought about wanting to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled and what that would look like and how can I do that. And then I read this quote that said, to know the road ahead, ask those coming back. And that quote stuck with me. And I realized that if I wanted to live an extraordinary life, the quickest and best way that I could do that would be to go to talk to people who are already living extraordinary lives and study the common traits, motivating factors, and guiding principles that enable them, enable everyday people to to produce extraordinary results. And so, I had this vision that I'd call people, and then I set off on this cross-country adventure, not knowing if anybody would say yes or that I could do it, but at least it gave my journey a sense of purpose. So, I set off across the country, and maybe some of you might have seen me and not remembered because how I funded my trip is I would pull into rest areas with my Coleman stove, and I'd set up my dog and my bus, and I'd jam some tunes. Wow. And I sold what I called back then sexy, kind grilled cheese sandwiches made with love for $1 off my Coleman stove for gas money and dog food. And people would walk up to me and just tilt their head like a dog that's confused and just like, what are you doing? And I would tell them that I graduated from school and I'm traveling around the country and I'm calling up the most powerful people in the world and taking them out for a cup of coffee and how I'm funding my travels is by selling sexy, kind grilled cheese sandwiches. How many sandwiches would you like? And some people called the cops. Some people, you know, turned the other way, and other people thought what I was doing was cool, and they started buying my sandwiches. And then not only did they buy my sandwiches, some people, they would give me $5 because they thought what I was doing was cool, or $10 or $20. And a few times I even got some $50 bill once, $50 bills for 2 pieces of bread and some cheese, which is— Wow. Pretty incredible to get $50 grilled cheese sandwiches.

Tony Martignetti
I guess that's, that's what a college education,

Eric Saperston
right? That's, that's what a college education is all about, learning how to market $50 grilled cheese sandwiches.

Kate Martignetti
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Eric Saperston
So I got a chance to get to talk, you know, travel and make some money. And then people were giving me, when they found out what I was doing, they gave me names and numbers, even the people that they knew. Oh my God, what you're doing is cool. We, you know, I was telling them I'm bridging a gap between young people and wise elders and, and do you know any wise elders? And then people would say, oh, you know who you need to meet is You know, Max Cleland, he's a Georgia Secretary of State and triple amputee and a war hero. I mean, he'd be great. Or you can go, oh, my cousin's Bernie Marcus, the founder of Home Depot. You could, you should meet him. He's really great. And, oh, my, my, my sister-in-law is Kathy Thornton, who's a United States astronaut, the first woman in space, and you should meet her. And so, all of a sudden, I got names and numbers of people. Plus, I was cold calling people and, and calling corporations and calling all types of folks and saying, can I take you out for coffee? And then, lo and behold, I was interviewing some of the most extraordinary people on the planet and then was encouraged. What are you doing? And then realized that we were capturing the living oral history of extraordinary people. And then we were encouraged to get a video camera and document our travels. And then we went across the country for 4 years, shot over 500 hours of footage, interviewed over 200 of the most extraordinary people from Billy Crystal to Jerry Garcia to Jimmy Carter to Maya Angelou to on and on and on. Wow. And met all these incredible people, documented their wisdom and experience, and then ended up making a feature film that we got a deal with Disney. And then that movie, we sold our short— we made a short film first and we sold it at Sundance Film Festival. And then our feature won South by Southwest. And then off to the races we went and we had a hit on our hands that were in theaters all across the country, sold-out shows. Oh, you have it right there.

Tony Martignetti
I got it.

Eric Saperston
So, we're really blessed.

Tony Martignetti
I share all this. My DVD, winner of the Audience Award at the Atlanta, uh, Video Film and Video Festival 2001, winner of the Most Memorable Film Award South by Southwest Film Festival 2003. You got to get your— you got to get your copy of, uh, the DVD. I'm holding it up for— we're only— folks are only hearing us, but I'm holding up my copy for, uh, for Eric. The Journey. The film is The Journey.

Eric Saperston
Well, The Journey film. Yeah, it's, uh, you can, you can, you can get access to that at, uh, liveinwonder.com or eric saperston.com. Yeah, the movie turned out, you know, it was in Barnes & Noble and Hollywood Video and Netflix and all that. And it really, it's impacted people all around the world. And it's been a real blessing. There was a little bubblegum and shoestring operation, you know, the little book, The Little Engine That Could. Yeah. I think I can, I think I can. I think our movie was like that. And then it ended up really inspiring and impacting a lot of people. And why I brought up the movie in the first place was that you were sharing with me how you shared wake up excited and go to bed with these really incredible clients of yours and the impact it had. And I was saying that that phrase came organically to me. I was— I had done this travel. I picked up 3 other travelers and we went around the country interviewing people. And it's the story of our own dynamic and what it was like following a dream and being on this adventure and meeting all these iconic people. And then there was a moment where I was in a— we were camping in the snow up in Oregon, and I just looked at the camera. Kathleen, our cinematographer, puts the camera on me, and it's towards the end of our journey before we went home to even watch footage and figure out how to make it into a movie. This was well before that. This was just while we were still on the road, and Kathleen put the camera in front of me and And started asking me, you know, things that I've learned from taking this adventure. And I just looked at the camera and said, I just have one question to ask people, and that is, are you waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled? If you are, you're doing the deal. And if not, what are you waiting for? And that became the last line of the movie. And I've been living it ever since and asking people that question everywhere I go because the question is so powerful to me because it's either one or the other. Somebody looks at that question and goes, either I am waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled, and that's a celebratory life. And other people ask themselves that question and they're like, dang it. I'm not. And if you're not, then it's time to set a course to make that happen. Life is such an unpredictable thing. We just learned from inside the pandemic. And everyone, it's our birthright. I believe it's our birthright to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled.

Tony Martignetti
We have control over a lot of things in our life. The folks we surround ourselves with, the choices we make, Personally and professionally, our thinking, you know, you captured with, you know, our language, using empowering language, but our thinking about ourselves or the way we talk about ourselves. And, you know, these are things that we all have control over, including those big decisions in life. You know, you can make the life that you aspire to. But you just have to be conscious. In, in, in lots of things.

Eric Saperston
Yeah, I think, uh, being conscious is important. I mean, conscious is a big word, a scary word, uh, you know, an out-there word, but I think ultimately what it means is being present.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
Being present, just being present.

Tony Martignetti
Thoughtful, thoughtful about your, your decisions, your choices, your actions. Again, the folks you surround yourself with. I think, I think the folks you surround yourself with, you know, are Do you spend your time with folks who lift you up, who challenge you, whose company you enjoy? Or is it more folks that, you know, are troubled, that bring you down, that are needy? You know, there may be some folks in your life that you don't have a choice about, but a lot of folks in your life you do have a choice about. And I think— I feel strongly about the people you surround yourself with. with and spend time.

Eric Saperston
I agree. I agree with you. I think the principle, the principle there is like attracts like. So, uh, let's say I'm a cynical, jaded, uh, frustrated person, and, and, and of course I'm thinking, you know, I need to hang out with more uplifting, powerful, inspiring people. But the uplifting, inspiring, powerful people aren't going to want to hang out with you.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
Because that person is taking energy instead of contributing energy. So, it really comes down to who we're being in the world and to step up our game. I mean, both personally and professionally. I think one of the things that I'm doing now as a coach, we specialize in coaching executives to achieve meaningful impact and amplify their personal and professional narratives. And to amplify our narratives, that's what we're talking about here is amplifying. The higher our narrative can go up, the more joyous and fulfilled our lives are. People are— it's amazing to me. It's just incredible. Even top executives are using language that's off-putting.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
In our world right now, in corporate America, we've become a culture that's talking about inclusion, empathy, belonging, psychological safety. Organizational health, all these things are important to create a very powerful culture. And most organizations and their executives are using language that is outdated. They're using language that's disempowering. They're using language that's aggressive. They're using language that actually makes people recoil. And they're good people. The people that I'm talking to are good people. They've got great ideas and a powerful vision, and they want to do good in the world. Yet the language they're using is actually sending people further away. And if we start—

Tony Martignetti
Like what, Eric? Give us an example or 2 of this disempowering type language.

Eric Saperston
Great. Here's a— here we talk about distinctions a lot. One of the distinctions that we talk about that's super powerful as a leader is, are people talking Most people— what do you think, I or you?

Tony Martignetti
What do most people do?

Eric Saperston
I'm talking about, so, there's a leader. It could be a leader in an organization gets up and starts talking to his people or her people about what's going on in the organization. Is that leader using I language or you language? I language. I language.

Tony Martignetti
I think they're probably using more I language. I would like to hear more we language.

Eric Saperston
You can use we language. That would be a nice evolution. I would say just from our research and what we see is that most executives—

Tony Martignetti
Oh, they're saying you. It's you, right? It's all you. Yeah, you. I see what— yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric Saperston
People are you-ing all over each other.

Tony Martignetti
You people, you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric Saperston
Yeah. You know what you need to do? You need to follow this. You need to, you need to, you need to, you need to, you need to, you need to, you need to. And then even if it's good, even if it's well-intended, they're using the word you on people and people get frustrated. They get it. They feel attacked. They feel confronted. They feel like you're judging them. The word you is challenging. Way better for an executive to turn around and say, hey, this was my experience. This is what I need. This is what I would like to see happen. This is what I want. And that way, I get to tell my story and you get to be enrolled in my story. You get to see possibility in my story.

Tony Martignetti
What about inclusive we language? We together?

Eric Saperston
Even better.

Tony Martignetti
Even better. Good. Okay. All right.

Eric Saperston
Even better. But it's careful. We is a difficult one because we can be a crutch. People can use the word we when they really mean you. It's different.

Tony Martignetti
All right. To get—

Eric Saperston
it could get a little dangerous.

Tony Martignetti
Okay. You have to be sincere about doing things together, moving ahead together. Together. Yeah. Be sincere. Be genuine about that. All right. Um,

Eric Saperston
here's another one. People say—

Tony Martignetti
okay,

Eric Saperston
people say you know a lot. People will be in a conversation, they go, we learned this, we learned this the other day when we were, we were interviewing an IT guy.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
To work with us. And we took him to dinner and we had a piece of pizza. And then he was sitting there. We were just thinking about this distinction, came up with this distinction around I versus you. And then, my lady and I were at dinner with this guy and he starts telling this story to us. He's like, hey, you know, when you're in Vegas and then you're out partying all night and then you drink too much? And then you pass out, and then you find yourself in a hotel room with a black eye, and there's 2 dudes there that you don't know, and then your wallet's gone. You know what I'm talking about. And Sarah and I are just going, we can't say— we, we actually, we actually don't know what you're talking about.

Tony Martignetti
I can't say I've had that experience to know. No. It happened in Seattle once, but never in Las Vegas.

Eric Saperston
Right. Never Las Vegas, only in Seattle. But what happens in Seattle stays in Seattle. So, we don't talk about

Tony Martignetti
it. All right.

Eric Saperston
But you get what I'm saying. So, that's just one example. But there's so many examples around. And also, just, you know, another one is that executives and in all of our lives, most people are talking about what they don't want to have happen. We spend an awful lot of time talking about what we don't want. I don't want us to screw up. I don't want us to miss the deadline. I don't want us to da-da-da. And most people are always talking about what they don't want. And to me, that's language in the off position, talking about what you don't want. Powerful, inspired, conscious leaders are talking about what they want. They're actually speaking their possibility into the world. They're inviting people to go where they want to. That's what a leader is, is to lead us towards where we want to go together instead of talking about what we don't want. Most people are talking about what we don't want. We're coaching executives to talk about what they do want.

Tony Martignetti
10 years ago, I, I asked you what, what it was that— what was the number one thing that distinguished those who were successful from those who were not successful? And I'm going to ask the same thing, not as a quiz, but I'm just curious if, if over time this, this may have evolved, because you've done hundreds of interviews since we talked 10 years ago. Um, What do you think is the number one thing that distinguishes those who are successful from those who are not?

Eric Saperston
I'm remembering our conversation from 10 years ago. I'm remembering that question, and I'm remembering the answer that I gave then. So, I'll give the answer I gave then and then see if a new one pops up now. But the answer I gave up then was when you asked me what separates those who achieve from those who do not. My answer back then was based on an interview that I had with the president of Coca-Cola, Donald Keough, who was arguably the most successful CEO in the world with one of the most recognizable brands in the world. And I had asked him that question and I said, hey, Mr. Keough, what separates those who achieve from those who do not? And like many of the guests, he looked at me and said, Well, Eric, what do you think it is? Before he'd answer, he'd ask me. And then I'm thinking, well, it's having a vision, finishing what you start, having good communication skills. I rattled off a few answers and he goes, oh, those are all part of the soup that makes it all possible. But what I think— and then again, just the most powerful, recognizable CEO in the world at that time, one of them. Looked at me and he said, Eric, what separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one's ability to ask others for help. We think asking for help is a sign of weakness.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
And it's actually a sign of strength and that our vulnerability and willingness to learn It's

Kate Martignetti
time for Tony's Take 2.

Tony Martignetti
Thank you, Kate. I'm at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, on the floor. They don't call it the exhibit floor. They call it the Hub this year, capturing lots of interviews for future Nonprofit Radio episodes. Nonprofit Radio episodes. We're all in Baltimore together. Of course, the Nonprofit Technology Conference is sponsored, hosted by N10. You heard Amy Sample Ward talk about this, the conference, a couple of weeks ago. We're at the Baltimore Convention Center, and I've got interviews coming up on email deliverability, email marketing, multiple panelists talking about different fundraising topics, something about events, experiential events. And it's like 19 or so panels. So that is, you know, if we do 2 a show, that's 9, 10 weeks of NTC shows brought to you, brought to you, brought to you in living Color Audio by Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. So that's where I am this week, the whole week. And we'll start— yeah, we'll start with the shows next week. That's Tony's Take Two. Kate?

Kate Martignetti
I'm not there with you, so have lots of fun and meet lots of cool people.

Tony Martignetti
Thank you very much. What, you mean we'll have more fun because you're not there? How are those two things connected? You're not there, and

Kate Martignetti
you're

Tony Martignetti
not here.

Kate Martignetti
I mean, you're not here to hear it live.

Tony Martignetti
Oh, well, you're in school, though.

Kate Martignetti
I'll have to wait, I guess.

Tony Martignetti
You have educational obligations that are constraining your time.

Kate Martignetti
That is true.

Tony Martignetti
All right, maybe next year we'll get you out of school. I don't know.

Kate Martignetti
All right, we'll see. We've got buku buttloads more time. Here's the rest of Wake Up Excited, Go to Bed Fulfilled with Eric Saperston.

Tony Martignetti
That is what you said 10 years ago. I've remembered it. I've used it from time to time. And you brought vulnerability in too. I absolutely agree that vulnerability in a leader is a sign of strength. A sign of confidence that they're willing to expose themselves and perhaps their organization's vulnerability to others rather than wrapping up tight and appearing invincible and all-knowing, which is, which is an unachievable state. So has it evolved? Do you, do you feel now that was Mr. Keough's answer and you adopted it? Do you think it's, it's changed? Do you, do you personally see something different through all the, through all these, uh, through this decade since?

Eric Saperston
You know, I think now what I think, I think that is no doubt. I think you just said some really great things there. One, I mean, asking for help is great. I think vulnerability. I think we want to, we want to follow people who are Accessible, approachable, that they're— that I, I, I, I can relate to them.

Tony Martignetti
Genuine.

Eric Saperston
I think that, yeah. And, and yeah, I, I was, I was with somebody yesterday who was talking about his executive teams, and he's like, man, I love those people. I would do anything for them. I wanna, you know, and it was that— and I know why they want to do that is because the people there are right there with them. They're not better than. They're, they're willing to do the work. They're willing to get dirty with them. They're willing to admit their own foibles and their own mistakes, and they're willing to— and I think Creating a culture of vulnerability like that breeds more vulnerability. It inspires more vulnerability and it creates community. I think my answer now, what separates those who achieve from those who do not now are leaders that genuinely care about the people they're serving. Like, really care, care about your health, your vitality, your wellness, your happiness, uh, and really, yeah, are willing to listen. I guess that would be that. I guess that, that's my answer. People— what separates those who achieve from those who do not is one's ability to listen well.

Tony Martignetti
And then you'll hear people's, uh, uh, you'll, you're here, you're here, you'll hear other people's vulnerabilities, other people's needs. And I think the genuine, uh, excelling leader can— um, I, I want to say something stronger than accommodate— can, can support those, support those needs, hear those vulnerabilities, work with them, help people, uh, excel in their strengths and build up their— build up their weaknesses, their weak areas. And

Eric Saperston
As a guy who studies communication, I think there's 3 things that want to happen in every communication exchange with someone, that people want to be, number one, they want to be seen, 2, they want to be heard, and 3, they want to be appreciated. And if we can do those 3 things in any communication exchange, we're winning. And I think being a good listener Enables that to happen. I get a chance to really see somebody. And we talked about being present. That's a big one, just being able to be with people, be with people wherever they are, look them in the eyes, being able to have empathy and compassion and understanding and really hear people, hear people's stories, even the ones that are different than yours, even with people that you disagree with. Can you still Listen and hear them and let them be able to be seen. So, you get a chance to really listen and hear them, heard. You get to really take in what they're saying, even if you don't agree, even if you don't think it's the right path, even if you're not into it, but still give people dignity and respect for sharing. And then appreciate them, value them, understand them, be grateful for them. And then even if it's like, as a leader, people come and tell me, oh, here's a great idea, then it may not be the idea that I think is the right time at this moment. And here's another great distinction that people are using, right? You talk about communication distinctions around language. Most people use the word but a lot. If you go and study people right now, a lot of people are using the word but, and they're using the word but all the time, even when they're comparing 2 ideas they actually believe in. And so, for me, most people that are leading right now, when I talk about language being off-putting, some leader is going to hear somebody's great idea that they think is awesome, and they're going to go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. And then they're going to pivot. All that does is diminish what that person just said, shut them down, and make it feel like they're not as important. And now let me tell you what I think is important. The whole idea of improvisational comedy, it's based on the principle yes, and.

Tony Martignetti
Yes. Yep.

Eric Saperston
Yes, and. Way better than no, but. Most people out there are no buts. If you're a no but and you're listening to this right now, I invite you to give up no but And start becoming a yes, and. It doesn't cost you anything, and it's more inclusive, it's more honoring, and it builds community. No, but just does the opposite. So, if I listen to somebody pitch an idea to me that's not really what I think is the right time for me, I'm going to be like, wow, that's fascinating. And then I'm going to pivot versus no, but let me tell you what my idea is. And you talked about humility. We talked about vulnerability. Another thing, humility, right? That goes with asking for help, but it's also just willingness to— Yeah. to not always have all the answers. We don't have to pretend that we have all the answers. And so, for us, being humble, somebody pitches me an idea and I don't think it's a great idea at the time that they pitch it, but 2 weeks from now, their idea could come into full focus and it was a great idea. One of my guiding principles I like to play with is I like to remind myself this phrase, could be good, Could be bad. Too early to tell.

Tony Martignetti
It's it's open-minded. You know, it's it's it's possibility related. There's something this this could be. It could be fantastic. But you know, we just don't know yet.

Eric Saperston
I dare say living in wonder.

Tony Martignetti
Let's talk about what a beautiful. I want to talk about the book. Live in Wonder: Quests, Quotes, and Questions to Jumpstart Your Journey. First, just reading the title, I happen to love alliterations. Uh, this show I have Tony's Take Two. Uh, if you get jargony, we have Jargon Jail. I love alliteration. You're not, you're not a jargon— I'm not worried about that at all for you, but I do put folks occasionally in Jargon Jail. I love alliterations. So Quests, Quotes, and Questions to Jumpstart Your Journey. That's a great subtitle of a book for me. Um, Live In Wonder. What, what, uh, I know the book is available at ericsaperston.com, but what are gonna be— what are people gonna learn about Live In Wonder? These handwritten pages, what are we gonna get?

Eric Saperston
Uh, thank you so much. You put people in jargon jail. Uh, I've been really blessed. Uh, my, my neighbor is Woody Harrelson, and, uh, we spend a lot of time doing all kinds of fun shenanigans, and he is one of the funniest and smartest people I know, and He's an incredible storyteller and a phenomenal joke teller, and it's a privilege to be around him and our friends, and they're always cracking jokes and telling great stories. And it's almost nerve-wracking to be around such high-quality presenters and performers. The image I have is when I was jumping rope, there's like that rhythm, there's a rope and everyone's talking and sharing a joke, and then— Yeah. And then it's going, and then all of a sudden, You know, oh, I want to tell a joke, and then kind of jump in. And if I tell a good joke, you know, the the rope's still going, and you know, and I didn't miss a beat. Other times you jump in, and now all of a sudden joke doesn't really go well, and then everyone kind of just is like, you know, it's so it's so loud in a room like that because everyone's so good at telling jokes.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
So it's just like a wah wah, and then all of a sudden you you put people in jargon jail. Woody likes to put people in joke probation. All of a sudden he looks and I get there, you know, he's like, Eric, uh, joke probation. And all of a sudden I'm, you know, I get joke probation a lot.

Tony Martignetti
You brought the crowd down.

Eric Saperston
Yeah, sometimes, you know, it's, it's, it's a high-risk game. But, you know, for the times, you know, it's like being a professional baseball player. You strike out a lot, but every once in a while, you know, you hit the ball and people, people invite you back to dinner.

Tony Martignetti
Uh, you could offer Woody, uh, joke jail.

Eric Saperston
Well, I thought, you know, my favorite thing is to put him— he's so good at it. And every once in a while he flubs and I get to all of a sudden go, oh, joke probation for you. And it's really fun. It's one of the things that— one of the principles that I've really come to live by is a rising tide lifts all boats. And being around, you know, I live on a farm now with a bunch of people that live on the farm. We have 280 acres out here and it's just extraordinary. Wow.

Tony Martignetti
In Hawaii, we should— I want folks to know that you live in Hawaii.

Eric Saperston
I do. And, and, and just being in community has taught me so much. I, I did— I grew up in a condo in San Diego and, and, uh, moved to Atlanta, and I've lived in Venice Beach, California, and I've, uh, I, I, I've been relatively isolated even though I've been, you know, popular or created things. I, I've, I've lived in big cities Where, you know, I might know a neighbor or two, but for the most part, I've, I've, you know, been, been more independent. Now I live in a place where I am, uh, with people, and that has been another big growth for me, is to, to one, live where we're planting food, uh, and feeding people and, uh, eating food from the land and learning about sustainability and regeneration and soil and, uh, some really healthy practices. And what it's like to, to be in community and how communities, as well as organizations and not-for-profits and families thrive is by contribution. We've become a society of consumers. Most people like to take, you know, what's in it for me? And really thriving communities, thriving organizations, thriving families are shifting that. They're upping the language and elevating the story to instead of what's in it for me, they're asking themselves, Hey, how can I contribute? How can I make this better? What can I do to provide value? And that has been a secret sauce for sure. To answer your question about the book Live In Wonder, that came to me because of my travels. I didn't have it early on. When you met me, I was really coming off of meeting all these extraordinary people and getting invited to give speeches for Nike and Coke and General Mills and UPS and ADP and United Way and all these. And I was doing opening and closing keynotes in front of big audiences. And I think one of my talents is that I can look at everyone that I've interviewed and I can tell you at least one, probably 2 or 3 lessons that that person taught me. And I could go give a speech and I can interview the executives at a company, find out what values are important to them, go into my arsenal of stories of people who I've met, and then shuffle the deck, pull out a picture of this person and a picture of this person and a picture of this person. And then that's my speech. I can share these really great stories that will relate to the organizational culture and inspire them to even do better. When I would be done with these speeches, you know, the audience would be really gracious and they would engage in questions with me and they would, you know, ask me different things about the movie or what I shared about whatnot. And every once in a while, there'd be somebody who would raise their hand and say, hey, Eric, you know, I really get that you're, you know, you did this cool thing, you met all these cool people, and you're able to share all these great stories and lessons. from leadership lessons and communication distinctions from all these wise people that you've met. And you're doing a great job of it, and I loved it. And I'm just curious, you got to go on this adventure and you did something that most people never get to do, and you got access to all these big brains and extraordinary people. What did you deduce that was the commonality? I know that you can tell me a story about Jimmy Carter or when you met Spike Lee or whoever it is, but I want to know what did you learn? And for years, I would be up there going, you know what? I don't know that I have that answer yet. And it was a little awkward because I wanted to have an answer, but I didn't have it. And it took about six or seven years after the journey. There's a great there's a great line by Khalil the poet Khalil Gibran, who said, as the mountain to the climber is clearest. As the mountain to the climber is clearest from the plain. What that means to me is that when I was on the mountain traveling, all I could see was what was in front of me.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
And I only had the perspective of what was in my immediate surroundings. And things became clear when I got to leave the mountain and be on the plain and look back up and see where I traveled. And I think that's for all of us. We get a chance to, you know, in the moment, we can only do what we can do. do the best we can in the moment. A lot of wisdom, a lot of clarity, a lot of understanding comes after the experience is over. Then we get a chance to kind of look back at where we traveled. Then that's where we get to deduce some really great takeaways. And so, for me, it took a while. It took me 6 years of being on the plane, looking back at the mountain. And then all of a sudden, I was on a surf trip to Costa Rica and I had an epiphany. And the epiphany was that the thing, the greatest commonality, the greatest aha, the thing that all these extraordinary people, whether they were a world-renowned architect, a world-renowned horse trainer, they were a President of the United States, they were a CEO that took an idea from a garage to being super successful, or a rock star, all the commonalities that these folks had in common, the number one thing is that they still were excited and open and willing And innovative and exploratory about life. They were just willing to, like, they showed up in a meeting and they're like, I don't know, let's try that. Let's figure this out. What do you think? And it was just, it was this big light bulb that went on going, wow, there is this idea that we were all born with a sense of wonder. It's the thing that is our life force. People who live in wonder have their light turned on. And it's bright, and we like to be around those people. It's contagious, it's uplifting, it's inspiring to be around people that are still learning and growing. And then there's a whole bunch of other people who are like know-it-alls, and let me tell you how that's not gonna work, and you know, that's never gonna happen, and blah, blah, blah. And they're talking— even that, what I'm saying, the example I just gave, those are people talking about what they don't want. It's never gonna happen. It's not going to work. Those are people talking about what they don't want. It's the negative part versus talking about, hey, I'm not coming from some fairy dust land. Making anything, making a movie, writing a book, doing a speech, it takes work. And it's not like I just get to go poof just because I'm using inspiring language, things happen. Man, it's still hard. I get to go into a meeting instead of going, this isn't going to work, I can go into a meeting and say, hey, you guys are all very smart. Yeah. Can you all look at this idea and share with me anything that you think might be in the way of our success? And then we get to explore those things that might be in the way so we can turn those into the on position. But instead of going, oh, that's not going to work, and let me tell you why it's not going to work, or people that go into a meeting and say, you know what? Yeah, you know what the problem is. I don't care about what the problem is. I want to know what the solution is, and let's figure it out. And then maybe we won't even— maybe not even work. But at least we're focused on the solution. And then if we discover it's not it, it'll reveal something else that'll take us on another adventure that'll bring us closer to the thing we want anyway. So, this whole idea about wonder is that the people who are waking up excited and going to bed fulfilled are people who are living in wonder. And wonder, the thing about wonder is that it's not something that needs to be taught. It just needs to be remembered. We just have to get quiet enough to remember what it was like when the world didn't take away our joy. We got to reclaim our power instead of, you know, all the cynics and all the people that said you couldn't do it, or all the people that were mean-spirited and all the people that hurt our feelings. Just be able to go, okay, well, I'm not going to let you win. I'm going to reclaim that sense of wonder. I'm going to go back out in nature. And I'm going to sit and look at the sunset, or I'm going to go look at the birds, or I'm going to go look at a stream going by and remember how magnificent this place is. I'm going to stand up. I'm going to just right now, I'm going to stand up and put my arms up in the air and lean back a little bit and go, woo! And remember that I'm floating on a ball that's rotating through space right now. We are sitting on a ball rotating through space and we're— it's incredible. Or that even right now, you and I are talking through Zoom technology. This is crazy. I can see you. You can see me. You're in the Carolinas. I'm in Maui, Hawaii, and we're having this conversation. This is incredible. I like to think about, man, I send a piece of mail to somebody and all of a sudden, within a couple of days or weeks, it arrives somewhere. That's incredible.

Tony Martignetti
I get to get on a plane and

Eric Saperston
fly

Tony Martignetti
through space. For 55 cents, that piece of mail.

Eric Saperston
I think one of the things about wonder, a close— if you want to get access to wonder in your life, really start pushing and leaning in, not pushing, but leaning into more gratitude, being grateful, being grateful for it all, being grateful for technology, being grateful for your friends, being grateful for your wife, being grateful for your husband, being grateful for your employment, being grateful to be of service, Being grateful that you have all 4 arms and legs that you can use. Be grateful for your ability to communicate. Be grateful. Be grateful for it all. Gratitude brings direct access to a sense of wonder, a sense of awe, a sense of marvel, a sense of astonishment. So, you asked what the book will do. So, the book came out of this epiphany of going, okay, I just realized that the people that are extraordinary in this world have maintained, celebrated, and share their sense of wonder with each other and the world. And that's powerful. And then I realized, oh my gosh, I now have a responsibility. I went on this quest, I went on this adventure, I went to the top of the hill, I figured out this idea of, wow, wonder is something. I went and checked in. I went back and interviewed my guests and checked in because if I go back through all the transcripts, there wasn't wonder really talked about. One, because I didn't have that in my lexicon to even talk about it. Right. And 2, and this is the real fascinating part, is that the people that I was interviewing, they didn't bring up wonder because it wasn't a success strategy. It was who they were being. They weren't using wonder as a way to be successful. They were just being wondrous. That's just innately who they were.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
And it was just how they rolled through the world. And then I got to go back and check And I remember talking to Steven Tyler from the band Aerosmith, and I leaned into his ear and I said, I'm just curious. I'm exploring the idea of the important role wonder plays in all of our lives. And he looked around and just looked back at me with sparkly eyes and just said, Oh, I could write a whole book about that. And it is true. And I went and talked to all these incredible people and they said, oh my gosh, you're right, Eric. Wonder has been a major part of who I am in the world. Thank you because I didn't even think about that as part of my thing. It's just who I'm being. And my invitation is definitely to reclaim your sense of wonder so that you can attract more wondrous people in your life. Yeah.

Tony Martignetti
I'd like to give you a chance to drop some more names so that folks have an even wider— you've already talked about Jerry Garcia and Steven Tyler and Jimmy Carter and Henry Winkler. I'd like folks to get a sense of, you know, the breadth of your interviews, your folks that you've You've tapped the minds of—

Eric Saperston
Let's see. I just interviewed Daniel Pink, who is an amazing author. He was a speechwriter for Al Gore with left politics and then started writing really incredible books. He wrote a book called Drive. He's got a new book out around regret. He's very powerful. Just interviewed him. Just interviewed Pat Simmons from the band the Doobie Brothers. Uh, that was great. He's the guy that wrote, uh, Oh Black Water, keep on rolling, Mississippi Moon, keep on shining

Tony Martignetti
on. Oh Black— yeah, okay. Yes, drop a couple more, drop a couple more.

Eric Saperston
Uh, I— well, I just, I just interviewed him, just so you know. I just interviewed him. He was just inducted into the Music Hall of Fame. Uh, they were just on their 50th anniversary tour. And, uh, and I asked, uh, Pat Simmons, I said, uh, what are 3 things You've learned about songwriting. And, uh, Pat said, uh, 3 things I've learned about songwriting. Uh, number 1, uh, keep it simple. Uh, number 2, uh, write about what you know, uh, your own experience basically. And number 3, don't bore us, get to the chorus. Ah, that's brilliant.

Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

Eric Saperston
Okay, who else have I— who else have I interviewed?

Tony Martignetti
Yeah, name a few more. Go ahead.

Eric Saperston
I— we interviewed— just interviewed Diana Nyad, who's a world record swimmer. She's incredible. Um, and let's see, I've interviewed, uh, the founder of the Ritz-Carlton. I've interviewed the chairman of UPS. I've interviewed, um— oh yeah, I'm blanking.

Tony Martignetti
How about going back, uh, going back to Uh, your, your, your 4 years in the van. Who,

Eric Saperston
let's see,

Tony Martignetti
who comes to mind there? I know Jimmy Carter was part of that, part of that cadre.

Eric Saperston
Jimmy Carter was incredible. I interviewed, uh, uh, back then Governor Ann Richards, who was incredible, from Texas. Uh, I interviewed Ken Kesey, who wrote One Flew Over a Cuckoo's Nest, and, uh, Merry Prankster. I interviewed Billy Frank Jr., the head of the Indian Fisheries Commission. I interviewed Hazel Wolf, who was a 98-year-old environmental activist, poet Maya Angelou. Yeah, that's a pretty good list. Okay. It's been incredible. I've interviewed so many people, and those are all iconic names, you know, but I've also interviewed farmers and I've interviewed teachers and I've interviewed a lot of people that you've never heard of. And yeah, and I also interviewed I interviewed thousands of young people when I was on my journey. The whole premise of the Journey film was to bridge a gap between young people and elders. So, I interviewed all kinds of young people from every area of life and would interview them and ask them what they were struggling with and then figure out what that was. And then I'd go to the top of the food chain and go, hey, this is something my friends are struggling with. Do you have an answer for that? And that's how we bridge the gap between those that want to learn and those that want to teach. Yeah. I don't think I fully answered your question about the book. You know, you were saying, what does the reader get from the Live In Wonder book?

Tony Martignetti
Okay.

Eric Saperston
And, you know, what the reader gets, one, the epiphany of Live In Wonder, that was the origins of why I felt inspired to write the book. And then the book is about the reader. And, you know, less about me, more about the other is one of my principles. And it was the book's less about me, more about the other, more about the reader. I tell you a little bit about my story in the beginning. It's Quest Quotes and Questions to Jumpstart Your Journey. The quest part of the Live and Wonder book is I realized that I can write a book about my story and my life and all that I learned, and that's cool, or I can write a book that is less about me, more about the other, and it gives people who read the book a chance to take their own journey. And that was more compelling to me instead of me writing and telling you about my journey. I wanted to inspire people to take their own journey. And so, the book, the opening part of the quest is for anyone that's reading the book to pick 5 people in their life that are people that they respect and admire and are looking at that person's life going, man, I want more of that. And it could be anything. It could be, I just got married and I'm newlywed and Bill and Nancy Schmidt down the road have been married for 60 years and they're They're cute as a button, and I want somebody to write that person's name down and then go interview that person. Have you and your couple go interview that wise person to find out the values they live by, the struggles they've endured, and what advice and counsel they'd give you to better prepare yourself to model their behavior. If you want to become a CEO, go interview 5 CEOs. And I wouldn't just go interview anybody, I'd go interview really successful, happy, uplifting whatever it is that you want to emulate and go talk to them. If you want to build a boat, go talk to boat builders, whatever it is. So, pick 5 people in your life that you admire and respect that you want more of. And instead of sitting back coming up with, oh, I can't do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't have the credentials. I'm not sure, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, be more empowered and go, look, this is what I want. I'm not sure how to get there. I've never done it before. Okay, I'm going to go look in my world, whether it could be your neighbor or somebody famous, doesn't matter to me. Pick 5 people in your life that you want more of that in your world and have the courage to ask them out for a cup of coffee and learn. And so, that's the first part is that everyone gets a chance to pick people in life that they admire. That's the quest. The quotes are all these quotes that I've used to keep my own heart and mind open. So, I shared those quotes. They're really inspiring and uplifting to people. Yeah. And then the third part is the questions, and they're all the questions that I've used to interview my guests. So, you can use those same questions to interview somebody, or you can come up with your own. People use the book to actually go do all kinds of amazing things. We've gotten stories from all around the world where people actually go take the book, they pick somebody, they say, I just got this book, they go interview that person, and their life changes. It's been phenomenal. And it's been a really pleasure to have written a book that has impacted so many people. So, if it's something that's calling to anybody that's listening, it's a— yeah, it's based on similar to my movie. It's based on the principle to know the road ahead, ask those coming back. That anything you want to learn about anything is an inspired conversation and a cup of coffee away.

Tony Martignetti
And it's, it's Jumpstart Your Journey. I mean, you had The Journey, you had The Journey the film, you had your journey. It's Quest Quotes and Questions to Jumpstart Your Journey. Could you, uh, could you share one of your—

Eric Saperston
that's me, that's me using— that me— that's me using your in a good way, I hope. Yes, that's me youing on somebody in a good way.

Tony Martignetti
Your journey. Yeah. What's one of your quotes? You have a bunch of— you said you have a number of quotes that you live by. Can you share one of your quotes with us?

Eric Saperston
You want a personal quote that I've written or a quote from the book? Which one are you asking?

Tony Martignetti
Oh, well, I was looking for one from the book. Those are personal quotes though, aren't they, in the book?

Eric Saperston
No, those are quotes from people that have inspired me.

Tony Martignetti
Quotes from other people that you've used. Okay.

Eric Saperston
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Martignetti
Can you share? I want to. I want folks to be inspired about the book. Share a quote. Can you share a quote from the book?

Eric Saperston
I can. Here, let me.

Tony Martignetti
Okay. Well, while you do that, because I put you on the spot, now you got to go. You actually. He's going to his book. What? What better source for quotes from the book than than the book? And yeah, we go ahead.

Eric Saperston
Yeah, I'm thinking about which— I think this is my favorite.

Tony Martignetti
Okay.

Eric Saperston
I think this has to do with one of the things that I learned on the journey is how important it is to be yourself and that most people That's a challenge. Most people are so highly influenced by other people's impression of who they are that they would sell out their sense of wonder, their authenticity, their sense of adventure, all kinds of things to conform to what other people think. And the people who get up excited, go to bed fulfilled, live extraordinary lives are more committed to their principles. Yeah. They're more committed to their values. They're more committed to who they are and what they say they're going to do in this world. And they can't please everybody. It's one of the common things that there's no doubt you cannot please everybody. And when I set off to travel the country in my van selling grilled cheese sandwiches and asking that I was going to call up people and take them out for coffee, for a long time, I had to be ostracized and judged. And ridiculed and had to endure people's projection onto me. It wasn't— it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to be— to have that happen. And if I allowed my self-esteem to be contingent upon what other people thought of me, I'm done. And so, having the courage to speak my possibility into the world is something that I invite everybody to have. It's to be able to just be you unapologetically and to trust the process being you. And this is one of my favorites. This is how we open the book. There's an author, a super uber successful author, Dr. Wayne Dyer, who— that was another one of my interviews. I came out to visit him. He lived here in Maui. And I came out to visit him, and then I ended up staying and moving from Venice Beach to Maui after that visit. But he's extraordinary. He passed away, but he was extraordinary. And he said this about Oprah Winfrey, and this is how I open up the Live and Wonder book. Many years ago, Oprah Winfrey was interviewed about her life. Many years ago, Oprah Winfrey was interviewed about her life and asked whether she had known that she would become one of the most powerful women in the world. She explained to the reporter that when she was a little girl, someone asked her what she wanted to do with her life. She answered by saying that she didn't know, she just liked talking to people. The person quickly retorted, well, you can't make a living

Tony Martignetti
We can learn a lot from the negative, the negative, the down, the Debbie Downers around us, and to ignore them and move ahead with our own journeys. Yeah. Uh, you know, you, you seem to like 3s. What is this series, 3 Things?

Eric Saperston
3 Things, you know, I— after somebody who has interviewed people for the majority of my, my life and certainly my, my, uh, career and have made a movie, you know, I would interview people and spend days interviewing them and then have to go back and watch all that footage I was looking for a way to capture the living oral history of extraordinary people and do it in a succinct and refreshing way. And what we came up with was this idea of 3 things. And I didn't realize that at the time, it was really, again, a real, just an organic unfolding. Yeah. I'm a storyteller and I study stories and I ask people to share their stories. And I think about the basic tenets of storytelling. The basic tenets of storytelling is a setup, a conflict, a resolution, a beginning, a middle, and an end. And if we adhere to that structure, we're telling a good story. And knowing that, I thought, And so, I thought, well, why don't I help that along? I'll ask people to share with me a 3 things question so that they frame it with, here's number 1, here's number 2, and here's number 3. And it turns out that that is a magical formula that we are able to tap into some of the most iconic minds and ask them what their 3 things are. And they nail it out of the park. And they share three incredible, insightful messages, and they're sticky, and they're powerful, and they're uplifting. And that's what we've created. So we've created a new series called Three Things with Eric Zapperson, and I'm interviewing iconic legends, and we're we're capturing that now, and we're we're cataloging a whole bunch of those, and I think we're going to begin releasing those. Uh, in early 2023. So, if any folks are—

Tony Martignetti
Do you know where we can see this?

Eric Saperston
Uh, uh, I, you know what, right now we're, we're in negotiations with a few folks, uh, uh, with some agents and managers to figure out the, the outlet of where it's going to ultimately be. What I'd like to do is if anybody has been inspired by what's happening, uh, today on our chat and want to be connected to the 3 Things, uh, series, to come to ericsaperston.com. And sign up for our newsletter. Our fans will get it first.

Tony Martignetti
Okay, okay. And the reason I say you seem to like 3 things— 3s— because you have the series 3 Things. I asked you how to live in one— how to wake up excited and go to bed fulfilled, and you cited 3 things. You have a game called 3 Things.

Eric Saperston
We do.

Tony Martignetti
You want to tease the game? This is all at ericsaperston.com and/or liveinwonder.com. Uh, but I, I connected to the game from this Eric Saperston site, but I think it goes over to Live In Wonder. But a game called 3 Things, and then, and then we'll wrap it up. What's the 3 things?

Eric Saperston
You've been so sweet. I'm so, I'm so grateful to be asked to be on the podcast with you. I'm grateful for our friendship. I'm grateful that we got a chance to meet 10 years ago, and then that, uh, we get to still be in relationship and check in with each other now. And, and, um, you know, thank you for including me into your world. And, and, uh, one of my favorite sayings is, when you drink the water, uh, remember who dug the well. So thank you for digging such a huge well and being of service to so many organizations. Uh, Tony, you're, you're, you're a bright light in this world.

Tony Martignetti
That's very thoughtful. Thank you. And To give you back some of a phrase that you used, I think you are contagious, uplifting, and inspiring. He's Eric Saperston. All right, so you can learn about, uh, the series 3 Things. For that, you go to ericsaperston.com. Uh, the book Live in Wonder: Quests, Quotes, and Questions to Jumpstart Your Journey, also ericsaperston.com. Uh, for the game 3 Things, I believe that's at livingwonder.com, but you can get to one from the other. Uh, the movie The Journey, that's at ericsaperston.com, I believe. You got to get the DVD The Journey. So, uh, Eric, what a pleasure to be connected for all these years and to, uh, have another, uh, an even much longer conversation than, than our 10 or 12 minutes we did in, uh, in 2012. It's a real joy, a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for sharing yourself, your ideas. Thank

Eric Saperston
you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, uh, let's not wait another 10 years for us to connect.

Tony Martignetti
No, we'll not. You'll, you'll be on. You'll— I'll have you back because I think people are going to enjoy hearing from you.

Eric Saperston
Well, what if, you know, if anybody out there, anybody that's been listening, thank you so much. Uh, thank you for the role you play Uh, in the nonprofit world, I think you are champions, uh, and, uh, lightworkers and, uh, uh, change agents. And, um, I just, I, I applaud all y'all. Just thank you for, for, for contributing and, and making the world a better place. And if there's anything I can ever do, whether it be, uh, coaching, uh, you or coaching your executives or giving a virtual talk or a a talk in person to your organization, uh, please call on me and I'd love to, to help and be a part of your journey.

Tony Martignetti
Eric Saperston, @EricSaperston and ericsaperston.com.

Kate Martignetti
Next week, we'll kick off our 25 NTC coverage with Amy Sample Ward. If you missed any part of this week's

Tony Martignetti
I beseech you, find it at tonymartignetti.com.

Kate Martignetti
We're sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters' generosity? DonorBox— fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit. donorbox.org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I'm your associate producer, Kate Martignetti. The show's social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein.

Tony Martignetti
Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.