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Nonprofit Radio for September 29, 2017: Giving Tuesday Friday

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My Guests:

Jessica Schneider: Giving Tuesday Friday

It’s not too late to make a splash for Giving Tuesday, November 28th. But “too late” is fast approaching. Jessica Schneider from the 92nd Street Y has your last minute tips, tricks and strategies.

 

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Giving Tuesday Friday

Amy Sample Ward

It may not be too late but “too late” is fast approaching. Amy Sample Ward has what you need for Giving Tuesday success in the social networks. She’s our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

 


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Schnoll oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week it’s, laura packard she’s been a guest on the show and she got dissed directly personally by donald trump. You may have seen her story. She has stage four cancer, hodgkin’s lymphoma. She was tweeting to the president about health care policy and the collins gray and bill, and he blocked her. He doesn’t know that. He’s messing with a non-profit radio guest now he’s out of bounds. Laura, i’ve got your back. You have a lot of courage. Congratulations on being non-profit radio listener of the week. We love you, laura packard and i so admire what you’re doing. Congratulations. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into ginger vos toma titus if you come to me up with the idea that you missed today’s show e-giving tuesday it’s not too late to make a splash for giving tuesday, november twenty eighth jessica schneider from the ninety second street why has your last minute tips tricks strategies, then it may not be too late, but too late is fast approaching amy sample ward has what you need for giving tuesday success in the social networks she’s, our social media contributor and ceo event in the non-profit technology network it’s giving tuesday for the hour today on tony’s, take two e-giving tuesday, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we’ll be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com what a pleasure to welcome jessica snyder to the show. She is the director of strategy and collaboration at the ninety second street wise belfer center for innovation. She spearheads several i love that word spearheads levin. Use that in a long time. That’s good that’s a good buy a word, good resume word, too. I should remember that my never search for jobs, but for friends. She spearheads several initiatives and programs, including e-giving tuesday, the women in power, fellowship and social good summit she’s worked at rent the runway, general assembly and the paley center for media. You’ll find the y at nine to wide dot or ge and she’s at your pal jess. Welcome, pal, your pal. Just i love that. What would you do that twitter ideas? Very clever like that your pal? Just, you know, by the time i got around to joining twitter, which is sad that i didn’t join it right away, kind of every form of jessica or just schneider on been taken on. Yeah, i don’t know where how that came to me, but i i thought about changing to something more professional, but at this point, i think it, you know, stay with it, no latto partnership work, and i feel like i’m you know, people spell well, i love it. Yes, you should stick with it now don’t it’s not unprofessional, it’s, just different messes difference. Clever falik um, okay, so let’s kick off our power on giving tuesday with a little bit of history? Sure, that’s things started it with henry, tim’s and who’s been on the show, henry in twenty fourteen. I’m talking about giving to them, but give us a little background. Sure, i think i’ll start just by explaining a lot of people when they hear i work at the ninety second street y and giving tuesday what the connections there is. So if you don’t live in new york city or you aren’t familiar with ninety second street y, we are one hundred and forty three year old community in cultural organization on new york city’s, upper east side. We are everything you associate with the community center. We have a very renowned pre school programs for the elderly school of the arts dance classes with jim, i work in the belfer center for innovation, and our center is really tasked with taking ninety uae’s mission core concepts that have really been the foundation of the institute for the past hundred forty years of building community, of civic based dialogue of philanthropy and thinking about those in a twenty first century context. Okay, so i give him that background just because of people like why is this community centre the hump of giving jesus thats why don’t your that’s the connection e-giving tuesday, i think is supported by all those exactly fit so well into all those. So back in two thousand twelve, henry tim’s, who is now our executive director at the time he headed up one of the centers at ninety y he just had this this idea there’s black friday and cyber monday, two days that unite the retail community, as we all know, to great advantage for them. Great advantage for us. And what if there was a way to unite the philanthropic community as well? And he often jokes, you know, someone was going to claim that tuesday, why am i not the good guys? So, yeah, from the beginning, it’s been a very simple idea, but we spent very little time planning it. Our first year, we kind of last year was when two thousand twelve we’re going to our six year now you spent a couple months just gathering a coalition of people in the philanthropic world and by that, i don’t just mean non-profits a nutritional sense, there were houses of worship, schools, corporations, small businesses, families, associations, way they’re the first year i was there the first year starting oh, yeah. Okay on. And it was really just kind of put out a call that we want to make this day special. We want to bring everyone together. You want to incentivize giving one? To get people excited about giving and let’s, just as an experiment put it on the calendar all kind of got into the world together and worked very closely at the time with our friends at the united nation and foundation in there brilliant communications team helping kind of home dellaccio nastad watch your show, she also runs gelato get us out of d c, where you went to school, you went to georgetown, runs gelato shop for shops? I don’t know, but she still i don’t think she would, you know, she’s, now that we work heading up come some of their social condition and we were, which is sure fascinating and definitely worth reaching out to her because they’re doing really interesting work there. Yes, so we just kind of launched and he said, we’ll be cool. One hundred people participated, a hundred organizations did something that first year on ultimately we ended up with twenty, five hundred participate organizations that we knew of who could kind of officially registered through our site and then just on social media, that data start hearing about all these cool things happen around the country, so we knew we were we were onto something and i’ll just say the first year and this kind of continues to be our ethos, so talk about it, but more as we go along it’s always been a very open movement. We’ve never said this is the right way to participate in giving tuesday or the wrong way. We’ve never supported one platform over another and one cause over the other. We just want to see people uniting, um around the idea of giving back and not just money, but also time probono work advocacy, it’s all any form of giving is what i have to say. Now, what was the moment of we’ll be able to talk about fertilization? Like what was the very first thing about giving tuesday within an email from henry to some people who said, i’m thinking about this let’s have a meeting or when did you first come up that you can remember? Yeah, i was brought into it about a month into the process. From what i remember, it really started with henry and our other colleagues, asha curren just traveling around and having cheating on the show with us, i think, if not last year, two years. Ago talks e-giving tuesday. Yes, yes. He’s, our chief innovation officer at ninety y but we didn’t want to ever be the owners at this movement. And even though we always say we’re the home where the stewarts but we wanted this to be built by the community to start what do you remember? Is the starting the first time you heard? I think it was even the phrase giving tuesday. But like the first time you had this concept, i think the first time for me personally was henry pulling me into his office at the time. There’s. No, even now, there’s no one who works on giving tuesday full time. And i was doing different work at nine to and he just said there’s, this cool idea immediately clicked with me and intercepts if i would help with some partnership work for it, i think on henry’s and it maybe start with a conversation with kind of u n f and kind of that was the start. I think there was a dinner party where the idea was first tossed around and people reacted very positively to it. But i think henry would remember that better than i do there? Okay. So you were near the near the you were like a month in? Yeah, yes. Labeling the embryonic. We’re still in the embryonic stage. I think ways when there was enough momentum that henry realized he couldn’t do this on his own and manage a massive department at a large non-profit where he needed a someone else on his team e-giving sometime and and brain power to it. So let’s assure people now, september twenty ninth so i got all of october and most of the vast majority of november. It’s not too late right now, it would have been better if you had been planning. Like since the summer. That would have been better. But it’s not too late. No, no, definitely not. And i think there’s again, i will go back to c p times there’s no right or wrong way to bird to spain giving tuesday. So i would say the there’s many non-profits for whom giving tuesday is really the cornerstone of their fund-raising for the year and in january, when they lay out their fund-raising plan for the year more their volunteers and plan or their advocacy plan e-giving tuesdays a cornerstone. Of that, and they kind of plan all year around it. But there’s other organizations who are new to giving tuesday who exactly at this time, two months out or like, yeah, maybe we should try something this year and i think what’s really great about how e-giving tuesday he functions and how it is a great opportunity for non-profits to try something new, to do some experimentation, way about rule without rules. And if there is some idea that’s just been circulating on your team, maybe e-giving tuesday’s the perfect time to give it a chance. So not too late at all earlier, you planning the better, but especially if you’re kind of new to giving tuesday and aren’t sure what you’re going to do just the first year doing something smaller. Small start small, right? Exactly, yeah, don’t be overwhelmed, right? It’s not an overwhelming thing. There’s not rules and reports. And aside from what you want to do internally, there’s no, act like this is this is why so many people thinking has flourished because has not managed centrally there’s there’s a resource there’s, a page of sight of tools will get to the tools and resources. And then from there, it’s, you’re own your own desire. Start small. Do something modest, make it the cornerstone of your your fourth quarter, if you like exactly. Okay. I like tio. What else? You know what? Also we gotta go to break. Where was your two fingers? Two minutes ago? I didn’t see them. I didn’t see them these. And then i didn’t see the one. All right, sam says time for break. I didn’t see any fingers. Okay, let’s, go out for a break and then we come back. Of course, jessica and i just getting into giving tuesday stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way schnoll ideas for the other ninety five percent and when i was about to say was that another thing i like about it is there’s so many vastly different calls to action? People think of giving to say nothing of money first, but by no means is it limited to raising money? Give me some other examples that you’ve seen yeah, i think one thing i love about giving tuesday is it really is a way to bring people together, and giving is just such a universal value, it’s something that really unites us. And i think one of the reasons giving tuesday last year really resonated with people. I think we’ll see that again this year is you no matter your politics, no matter you know, the many things that divide us, giving tuesday and the unity that can happen around giving it’s just really amazing to see how that can bring people together is such a common a common thing, so in particular kind of volunteer events on dh in person activations are some of our favorite things to see around giving tuesday. One thing that just popped into my head from last year is there’s, a group called city dads so that’s it it’s in many cities it’s ah meet up group it’s organized around meet ups on and it’s a just dad’s getting together to do volunteer work and kind of create camaraderie and sabat the fact their dads it’s just kind of organizing principle it’s more of a volunteer group, and they partnered with plum organics x, which is a baby food company. And on giving tuesday in cities around the country, they went, teo homeless shelters and other places where people drop off clothing and food kind of assemble little packets that could be given to those in need. And it was just it was giving tuesday, people are looking to do something, and they were able to just organize this event that brought all these dads together, and often i feel like it’s mom to get a lot of the credit or we’re getting out and volunteer work and two year old to shine a light on that kid’s and baby food exactly be moms, but school exactly, and and for plum organics just a great opportunity for them to highlight there social good work and how they give back to the community justice. Such a natural fit so that that pops to my head one of the really most exciting elements of giving tuesday that’s developed over the past few years, and we kind of recognized it was happening and have been trying to support it, but it started very organically are giving tuesday community movements, so these are kind of locally organized coalitions of non-profits businesses, governments, schools in cities, towns, counties and states around the country. Last year, they’re around eighty five of them. Everything from e-giving tuesday, illinois e-giving tuesday, new york e-giving tuesday, charlotte e-giving tuesday, dallas sometimes they re brand more significantly than that to tiny little towns. There’s one in bethel, alaska, which is just a thing just a couple thousand people, they have one one stop sign in town and all the non-profits throughout the day took turns standing at that non-profit and collecting money, but also raising awareness that was then split amongst the non-profits in town and then they had almost like a science fair, but for non-profits, where they call to set up booths and people could come and learn about the different services, either because they want to give back or because maybe that could benefit that from them and really isn’t giving tuesday as a rallying point, but i also want to mention the community campaign so just really what happens if someone steps up and each one of these cities not even necessarily? Non-profit but an individual sometimes soc with non-profits eyes like i see the power of giving tuesday, i see how it can bring people together, and i want to create something grassroots in my hometown and really own it and really personalized giving tuesday not just in my organization, but for the people around me i wanted for the community it’s so lovely, and we as a team, i’m have someone on our staff now, um, who works with us part time, really? To support those community leaders and excellent okay, so let’s get it. I want to get some of the support that’s there, and i’ll just add, though, but what’s really exciting to see in the community aspect is how they support each other and how, when there’s a new community leader that comes on board how people within the already on the giving tuesday team not at ninety weinger out in the world offer advice and say this is what we learned. Oh, you’re a comparable size city here’s how we there’s there’s a ninety white community around community work exactly exactly. You know, i should have asked you just let’s get some basic stats out of the way? How many organizations do we know participated last year? We’ve talked you talked already about some of the things they’ve done, but i want you working how many tens of thousands this’s not me evading the question, but we’ve stopped counting because really, when we reached movement capacity, it’s just impossible to do b of activations and over one hundred countries that we know of it’s so vast we ask people to sign up on our web site, they could be little official partner would or not, but because it’s open source there’s no reason for people tio need to do that, and it’s isn’t a good measure of where we are. So we say hundreds of thousands of organizations on bank lose again, not just non-profits some of the stats we do like to quote is last year online, the twenty five’s e-giving tuesday, one hundred seventy seven million dollars was donated that we know of on lauren homes on, so that does not include offline. It does not include anything that happened outside of those twenty four hours, eight and that’s only dollars and that’s only dollars and just kind of other exact action we talked to talked about and get and and, you know, if a boardmember does one hundred thousand dollar match that day, that’s not in that amount, so it really is just a small fraction of the total giving but it’s nice for us because we can use it to kind of benchmark year over year and see where xero growth is, at least from from that metric i’ve seen petition drives, you know, it’s critical petition for your cause. All right, so let’s get into what people confined if they maybe they’ve done something in the past, they like to do a little more whatever or if there’s the first year, and they’re not that acquainted with it. What are they going to find at e-giving tuesday? Dot org’s? Sure. So i would say the best place to start is the download our complete tool kit, which is a very long document. I would at least art by skimming that which has kind of the basic language e-giving tuesday timeline, timeline, press really sample social media and i think also it’s helpful, because when the best things you khun dio when you’re starting giving tuesday at your organization is to get e-giving tuesday, team going not just one person running giving tuesday, so the toolkit isn’t just for you to read and like, oh, now i can run, giving tuesday starita lead to read and then become a leader of your organization around giving tuesday, but there’s lots of plug and play tools like tweets and press releases if you wanted to work on being a mayor or a proclamation mayoral proclamation tool kit yeah, which i know seems very specific, but it’s something that people love to do and it’s such a great just morale booster when that proclamation comes in a few days before giving tuesday and you’ve been plugging along just to know i remember our first year was mayor bloomberg time gave did one and and we were it was one of those moments that first year where it made us feel really so i just want to share that feeling with people, but i would say one is going to get through the tool kit and just going understanding what it’s all about case studies are a great place to go so that we all have a case study which has for non-profits and kind of the other types of organizations that that could participate local non-profits larger non-profits and with the case studies, if something piques your interest because the others, they’re pretty short, you can just kind of google the organization and giving tuesday and and find out much more see, you know, but the page look like and, you know, really delve more into that, and the other thing you do on the site is signed up for for our newsletter that also get you listed as an official giving tuesday partner in-kind of one and the same and then you’ll get when we add resource is you’ll be aware of those webinars webinars webinars coming? I can’t listen about the top of my head, but bojan e-giving tuesday at orc slash events now you’ll see a list of what’s coming up i know we have one with fire spring next week yeah, there’s always new things being added and leslie, we have a blog’s so as we have examples of what’s coming up for this upcoming year, we update that and we love it when people submit to our blogged what they have in the works less like tio here where this great organization or run e-giving tuesday campaign and more where they were great, we’re a great organization run e-giving to state campaign here’s what our campaign is here’s what we learned last year and how we’re changing because we really want the community to be learning from each other ideas to make the pie bigger, not to get you a bigger slice of it. Excellent and that’s all giving tuesday dot org’s exactly all e-giving tuesday, there was even a year there’s a plan giving toolkit that’s what you do plant giving consulting so everything is close to me close to my heart yeah, you could make plan giving part of your of your giving tuesday plan giving workplace giving if you work with a of for-profit who or even your own non-profit if they do workplace giving, you can think about how to use giving tuesday to incentivize enrollment to poor, bigger gifts on that day. Really limitless. Okay, bonem so i pulled together some some stories from that from this’s from the toolkit, like local non-profits, you know, and again to emphasize your point, this is not only by no means is this only for big organizations. There’s a of the naacp rat free library in baltimore, maryland there, when they’re one of my favorites, somebody from you know, what, two people i got two interviews from people at at ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference, i think we’re talking about energizing volunteers, and they were to ana panel two out of a panel three were from the naacp rat free library, you love them e-giving tuesday wise, yeah, what i personally love around giving tuesdays is when people use it to be collaborative and creative, and i think their campaign is a great intersection of those two. They’ve run a similar campaign the past two years where there’s they find, like the closest football game closest in time football game this year, it was against cleveland, and they challenge a library in that city teo fund-raising contest and then the losing flues and everyone’s a winner except one’s, raising less money but the executive director of the losing library has teo like, if i can remember if they want or not last year, but as much of a football fans, i yeah, but the executive director of that of the other library would like to dress up like edgar allan poe and have to read the ravens and it’s all under the hashtag book bowl e-giving tuesday on they raised i think around forty thousand dollars from that and i mean for a library, when you think about library fund raisers, you know, make sales, i mean it’s it’s online it’s bringing young people in social it’s fun, it’s kind of goofy and just the celebratory nature of it is is so in the spirit of giving tuesday dahna xero i love it’s a small organizations, i mean that’s, what non-profit radio is small and midsize shop from ours from our survey results we which is not so i’m not scientific. About ninety percent of respondents have budgets of less than ten million, so that’s at least we know it’s kind of taking advantage of our website and our resource is but also data we’ve we’ve seen from organizations like blackbaud about who’s participating and mohr and more every year, donations are going to smaller and mid size non-profits okay, people think that, you know, i think it’s one of the misconception people have around giving days or coming tuesday is it’s like the big guys, your elbow, their ways, and but this is really an equalizer, and you know what? Just just to dispel that that myth, i’m going to read some of these organizations that are that are that i got from the e-giving tuesday took it home of the sparrow in extent, pennsylvania, right? That’s not that is not an international organization table in chapel hill, north carolina, in tulsa stem alliance, tulsa, oklahoma, better future facilitators, akron, ohio. Malvin, pennsylvania baker industries so you should not be you should not be put off by your size around giving tuesday. In fact, you should be energized by your size lawyers for children don’t meet me these organizations. You just not heard of operations supply drop in austin, texas okay, so we’re putting that putting that mr bed killing it? Actually, i’d rather not die just sleep because it could wake up let’s, just kill it and it won’t be resurrected because it’s not a holy body. So all right, what else? What else can we say about giving tuesday for a couple minutes? I’m sure i would say another thing we’re just really excited about going into this next year, and i mentioned that we had one hundred global activities and one hundred treyz last year, but specifically there are now thirty five, global movements. So these are countries where an organization like a ninety second street y equivalent has stepped up and said, we want to really own giving tuesday not just at our organization, not just in our town, but for our entire condor country. And these are places have no thanksgiving, no no tradition of black friday or cyber monday. It is so amazing to see we just had in the past couple weeks giving tuesday india e-giving tuesday, panama e-giving tuesday, liberia is new this year and kind of like i mentioned with our community leaders e-giving tuesday here in the u s we kind of bring everyone together, but then just to see how they all learn from each other, it’s been one the most fascinating aspects of the movement as we’ve grown and i think it’s a really powerful on giving tuesday, which has been since the beginning to say to people, no, every act of generosity counts. It means more when we get together something really cool when you give on giving tuesday and you go on your facebook page and you see all your friends are also giving and talking about it. And then to think this is having a global scale. There’s someone in tanzania painting a house, there’s someone in, you know, bangladesh donating blood and to know that’s all happening on this single day. I think that messaging really resonates with people. And again at that time of year, it’s goingto holidays just to be celebratory. And how cool is that? They were all coming together to do something positive. Awesome. You know, you were gonna leave it there because i think you’re not standing that’s outstanding. Get involved with giving tuesday. The place to go is giving tuesday dot or ge? I’m sure jessica at your pal, jess. You having to help you? If you want a tweet, her, your pal jess on. And, of course, the ninety two, ninety secretary. Why, you know, shout them out because that’s! What started? But that’s not where you going to find the resource? Is there at nine to why dot or ge, but really the place you want to start he’s giving tuesday dot or ge? Is that right? Direct and also, of course. Follow us on social media on twitter and facebook. What the organization on twitter on twitter it’s e-giving choose e-giving two’s okay, no day, rios. Guess e-giving twos and at your pal just thank you so much. Of course. Outstanding court also. Know what you can hang around, right? I like that. Okay. Okay. When? When amy sample ward comes on, i will introduce you. All right, so we got a lot more on giving tuesday. Coming up first. Um pursuant the intelligent fund-raising health check. Have you gotten this thing yet? You’ve heard me talk about it for a couple weeks. Download it for nine key performance indicators. Those kp eyes. Hippies. You gotta have your kp eyes. You gotta have, you know, it’s the best practices that’s out now. It’s kip he’s okay. Or alive. That’s what? I call them hippies. That sounds like a breakfast seal. Like i want my i want i want chocolate milk. With mike hippies this morning, but kp eyes there’s ten universal characteristics of organizations that are thriving in fund-raising universal this is this is big the’s. The ten biggest ideas in the universe. This is duitz wait. So which is which is bigger? A solar system. No solar system is inside the universe, right? Isn’t aren’t solar system subsets of universes? Yeah, yeah. So this is not just i mean, if yeah, if these were dying, um, solar system ideas are no ten. If these ten solar system characteristics of thriving org’s, then i would say, you know, it’s really not worth it, but he’s a universal. So you’ve got you’ve got to go get the ten universal characteristics, not merely solar system. Um, get the free paper it’s at its on the non-profit radio listener landing page that pursuing has set up. And, of course, you know where that is. It’s a tony dahna may slash pursuant. Remember the capital p you’ve got to do that well, your cpa’s they do go way beyond the numbers that’s what they say and actually do it weinger cpas. They’re adding value way beyond accounting. They have all these policy statements free. Resource is for you again, just like just like giving tuesday. Dot org’s. They have something on fiscal sponsorship policy. They have a fiscal policy agreement. Now. We just talked about fiscal sponsorships. About a month ago, jean takagi was on with andrew shulman, and the subject was physical sponsorships for the hour. So if you want a lot more detail on that, there was september first september first show. So if you want a lot more detail on that, you can find an agreement. You could find a policy rechner, cps, giving these things away. They have ah, accounting policies and procedures manual ah bank statement review form. You know you’re reviewing bank statements. Hopefully you’re doing it every single month. Are you are you checking everything that you should be? Let the cps tell you what you should be reviewing when you do your monthly bank statement reviews each month your monthly each month that’s redundant. When you do these, you want to have a checklist in front. All right? So somebody more policies sepa is giving free advice. Go to regular cpas. Dot com quick resource is then guides stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books. Quickbooks sage? Yeah, they’ll be fine if you were a business, but you’re not you’re non-profit you’ve heard rumors to this effect, right? You’re non-profit kaplow’s accounting. It is designed for non-profits from the ground up meat from the outset, from the ground they have non-profits in mind, not corporate entities. So make your non-profit accounting do it easier, appaloosa counting easy, affordable designed for you. They’re at non-profit wizard dot com now time for tony’s take to my latest video is giving tuesday. All right, now, that’s. That particular video introduces this. Show so if you’re listening to the show podcast or affiliate or alive, you don’t really need the video because you skipped that you could skip that step, but there are links below. Teo e-giving tuesday roundup that i’ve got, including a video that where there’s possum shooting in the background you gotta you gotta check out this possum shooting video that i did in the in the mountains of tennessee. Um, yeah, just check out the possum shooting. So e-giving tuesday sort of video and round up that is all at aa my site, which is tony martignetti dot com, which i momentarily forgot. Okay. Um, let’s see? Got any sample ward on the phone on? Dh jessica schneider can hang out with us. You know, any sample ward is she’s a social media contributor. She’s, the ceo of antenna non-profits technology network. Her most recent co authored book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample ward, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. They are, of course, is for rene. Welcome back, amy rene. Hi. Hi, that’s. Why i give you this if you serve. Yeah, if you serve intro. That so you could get a little high so you can do slow. It felt so appropriate after such a long intro, it was just like the period at the end of the sentence. Okay, meet jessica schneider. Any sample ward? Hi, jessica. Hi, amy, nice to meet you, telefund lugo jessica can hang out with think we’ve even emailed before, but this is our first time getting teo talk on non-profit radio together. That is true for sure that, ok, eso jessica can hang out with us, and i, uh, i took the liberty of ah, hailing us of her of her extra time. So is that okay, right? I would love that. I knew you would. I knew you were giving person. All right, we’re talking about giving tuesday. Let’s see you. You have some, you know, you’re you’re a strategist and also a tactician. We talked a lot about strategy. I think with jessica let’s, get into some tactical ideas you like you like having people set up in advance. To who, you know, we’re going to be your champions. Well, when we talked about this before and other contacts now for that same, like a e-giving day, like giving to this whillans, you know, so it will not be new tto learn that i’m a fan of letting your community lead instead of the organization be the one out in the lead. I really think that a day let giving tuesday where you’re trying to reach as many folks as possible, but we all know and a lot of what’s going to capture their attention is storytelling and people really being able to speak clearly about the value of your mission. And i think it’s much better when other community members are making that appeal versus just the organization, because everyone’s going to respond to that same? Well, of course, the organization thinks it’s important. You worked there. You know where? Hearing that from a community member. Can can actually be really powerful and potentially change people’s mindset click through and learn a little bit more so i always recommend for organizations, especially organizations where this will be their first time participating and giving tuesday to set up. It doesn’t have to be an overwhelming, like fifty person list, you know could be five people, but make sure you have kind of a social media champions list of people who already have social media accounts, they already know how to use them. They’re probably posting frequently so there, you know, the folks that are connected to them on various channels aren’t going to be surprised when all of a sudden they’re posting about this, but they don’t have to be, you know, quote unquote vips, they don’t have to be superstar, don’t teo? Yeah, what matters is that the people that they are connected to like them and respond to them and engage with them, right? That doesn’t matter what their job title is are or where they live, anything like that, they haven’t engaged group of friends and family and an extended network that’s really what’s going to make him a great champion i’m giving to you so recruit them ahead of time, make sure they know that yes, i’m often in to do this for you, but you’re not making them do a bunch of work, so you’re telling them will send you example, facebook posts their example tweets, we’ll send you photos you can use so they know that what they’re being asked for as their voice in their leadership. But you’re not making them to a bunch of work to come up with what to say and some of those example resource is people will find at giving tuesday dot or ge jessica, how about that idea of the community speaking for you? Yes, i hundred percent agree with everything that amy just said, and it reminded me, i think those of us who work in the nonprofit world, everyone listening right now, um, often thinks on giving tuesday, you know, you get a lot of emails it’s giving tuesday donate to our cause and it’s very important to think about how you’re going to stand out in that crowd, but at the same time, there are so many people who aren’t part of the philanthropic community who don’t give online who are. Going, tio not get any of those emails on giving tuesday and that’s, why it’s so important to think about how you’re going to reach them as well and thinking of your community, is your ambassadors, you know, i might get five or six e-giving tuesday emails, someone else might not get a single email, but they’re going to see something in their facebook freed from there. Best friend from high school saying, no, i support cancer research, it’s giving tuesday. It would mean a lot to me. If you gave to this organization, they do amazing work, so just just think about that and ah, and how you confess, utilize those ambassadors on giving tuesday, amy let’s, go back to you. What else? What else do you think? Well, i think beyond just engaging folk, something that we have heard a lot of organizations ask us about or rather kind of complain about is something very, very tactical that i think often organizations don’t think about until they’re in the moment, and that is a number of organizations have discovered that, you know, it’s giving today they’re participating, you know, dollars air coming in there, super excited, you know, they’re trying to keep that momentum going throughout the day, and they want to post on twitter on up state that says, oh, my gosh, you are goal for the day was to raise five thousand, and we just hit seventeen hundred, you know, help us get to the next amount and all of a sudden they’re hearing from their executive director or maybe their development director that that is not an improved post and that, for whatever reason there executive director or whomever else is giving this approval doesn’t want to share that kind of a milestone, and they’re like, well, but i’m in the middle of typing this tweet what else am i supposed to say? What’s going on? And it may sound surprising, but we have i’ve heard this dozens of times now from organization saying what what should i have done in that situation? Well, i guess my advice is to not get yourself in that situation. It is not yet giving. Tuesday is not the middle of you know the morning and you want to post that update so as you’re doing, you’re planning for this year’s giving tuesday think about what milestones you’re going to want to celebrate and get those approved ahead of time. Maybe it isn’t. Every single dollar that comes in your organization feels comfortable reporting that’s fine figure out what kinds of milestones you do have approval to celebrate so that you don’t have to be in the middle of typing that tweet and find out you can’t send it really think about how you khun frame different milestones throughout the day, as asked anybody that’s ever listen to public radio is going to know that they are ex first that that thinking about hey well, you know, our goal for this hour was two thousand and we’re eighteen fifty who, you know, do we have collars in the last ten minutes to get us up to two thousand? Figure out what those milestones are and how you can celebrate them and how you can use them as kind of another motivational asked throughout the day. All right, how come some organizations might not want to share dollar amounts that since you used that as an example, what? Well, the feedback i’ve gotten, i mean, at least in organizations where to come to me for advice about this is that today? Well, there are a number of different situations, but the majority of them is that they were worried that they wouldn’t hit the ultimate goal for the day and that they would be posting these messages about, you know, we’ve made it to this number, can you keep giving? And that people would perceive that as we’ve on lee made it to seventeen hundred, and we thought we’d make it to five thousand. Um so it was it was like they were intimate painting a perception issue, so they didn’t want to say the numbers i said, okay, okay, jessica, anything you want? Not maybe if not that specifically just about getting thinking ahead in your community i had about communications, that is, i think amy brings up a really great point that the milestone issue? Definitely i hadn’t heard that specifically, but it makes a lot of sense to me, but in general, i would just line up tons of potential tweets and facebook post you probably do less frequently on giving tuesday, but a few facebook posts funny gifts, which ifs like to pronounce it some images using that giving tuesday logo just have it all ready to go, because once the day starts, you know who knows what’s going to happen and having those just said you can cut and paste them if you were running around that someone else can cut and paste them in and you know they’re approved, we’ll just you don’t. Toby developing graphics that day more you could get ahead of time. Agree? Just make your life a lot easier if you and i have talked about that again. Other contacts having having images lined up in advance. So you’re not scrambling. I mean, you do that for you do that for ah, for ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of for a lot of organizations getting images lined up in advance also means making sure you have approval there. Probably, you know photos of people. So making sure that the photos that you want to be able to use on that day, or one where you actually have approval to use those photos, everything is good to go. So that, again, you don’t get stuck in the middle of drafting, opposed, because you don’t have approval. But i also think giving tuesdays a great time to think about images that aren’t just, you know, like a photo that you have taken of a room full of people, but an image that you create with some easy online tools, so that they could be more like graphics. Mostly, i’m making the recommendation because you’re probably going to be posting many times during the day compared to a normal day. And so, using different graphic struck, they can help. Just keep the post feeling fresh and new content out there. A little bit more appealing for folks to share when there’s a graphic sametz chart about all that you did in twenty seventeen that goes along with that tweet that’s asking people to get so it feels like you can get a little bit more information into the post and i’ll just add one more thing to that. Just a best practice we’ve seen is just using the giving tuesday has to hash tag often people. The first tweet of the day, the first facebook post they say it’s giving tuesday and don’t think to continue that throughout the day, and if they’re talking about campaign or doing this great storytelling work-life so i think as much as possible and in terms of approval when it comes to the giving tuesday logo and e-giving tuesday heart, we love to see creativity around that so well in advance. If you want, take the heart and give it to your graphics team or find some twosome probono work for you and change the colors. Whatever you want to do, you don’t have to run it by us and we love it when we see images pop up on giving tuesday that air. Using our logo in a creative way. Cool, cool, me, that’s. What you’ve always loved about giving tuesday is the decentralization. So exactly, and i think for a lot of organizations e-giving tuesday’s the first time, or the only time during the year that they really operate like this, that they would participate in a more global campaign, but also that they are asking for money in a way where they’re actually asking their community member for to make that asked, or that they’re doing it on social media versus, you know, really relying on a direct mail appeal, etcetera. All right, ladies, we’re going to take our take our break. When we come back, we’ll continue the convo. Everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. No big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll we’ve got to do the live listener love, of course, we’ve got live listeners right now in laos, people’s, democratic republic of laos welcome live love to you and federal argentina also germany, gooden, dog, united kingdom don’t know which country i never, never just assume it’s, england, i don’t do that. Could be scotland islander whales united kingdom live love to you bring it here into united states who got younkers a little above new york city, brooklyn multiple brooklyn, multiple manhattan, tampa, tampa, florida live love to you, boston, mass. Bensalem, pennsylvania. Woodbridge, new jersey live love going out there all those places we’ve got someone in ukraine can’t see your city i’m sorry, but we know you’re with us and also in ah, china knee, how we’re south korea, but they’re out there there’s always someone from south korea, always always have sole on your haserot comes to harm nita. I know you’re out there on the heels of the of the live listeners love has to come to podcast pleasantries because there’s over twelve thousand of you listening on whatever device, whatever time and i am very glad that you are with us pleasantries to the podcast listeners. Thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm station listeners throughout the country. Affections to you. Thank you for your thank you to your station for hosting us. And thank you to you. Thanks to you for listening. Non-profit radio affections to our affiliate listeners. Okay. Um example, word. Let’s. Go back to you and find out let’s. See what else? What, what? What advice do you have around giving tuesday? Let’s? Keep it so simple. Well, some advice that i have e-giving tuesday actually come from other a crowd funding type situations and research from crowd funding black forms who, you know people are using for all different types of campaigns all throughout the year, but their research of what makes a successful campaign one of the indicators of a campaign that will be successful and meet it, um, you know, posted goal are ones that regularly post updates on the page so that the content is different even throughout the day or throughout the campaign. If you know another it is not giving tuesday, i think that’s a really smart because you’re sending people to the same link over and over and when they click through, they’re going to want to see that something different, right? So making sure that you’re sending them to that link over and over, that you’re, you know, just like you would if it was a little like news ticker kind of page, you can edit that paige and make sure that you’re putting an update at the top, not the bottom. Every time folks click through, they see oh, it’s, an updated eleven thirty a m and we’re halfway there, great that’s something really short and exciting that maybe i’m one of your champions. I could just copy and paste that as a tweet myself, right? So it’s just a way to keep it fresh on the page, but also to give other people fun, exciting things to share on and help spread your message. Yeah, cool, you could do that right on your on the e-giving page? Absolutely. Okay, okay, jessica, anything you wanna add with respect to keeping the content fresh all day? Yeah, i would say that you’re giving tuesday doesn’t have to be a single day event again based on our limited survey research, about only about a third of organizations just do something on giving tuesday either it’s the middle of a campaign, the start of an end of the year campaign, sometimes the end of a november long campaign. So just a long line of what amy was saying if you are sending people to a page on giving tuesday and then throughout the course of a month or even if it’s a week long campaign, just think about what you could do on giving tuesday throughout today to make it make it unique and incentivize or different stories you could be telling, especially if the page is going to be up for longer than a day. Yeah, okay, and you you, of course, you always want to know what we’re measuring, what what ar metrics going to be for this campaign that we’re engaged in? Well, in my experience, something like giving tuesday feels like a very fast, action packed type of campaign, even a jessica saying, even if more than one day it’s still a pretty intensive, fast moving thing on dh. In my experience, that means that other folks in the organization, whether that means other staff leadership or boardmember i want to know if it was successful, justus quickly, they don’t want to wait three months for your next, you know, development update to learn about the success of the day and being able to report on that means you’re going to have to know in advance. So start thinking about this now is you’re doing, you’re planning, what are you gonna want to be able to measure and report on to know if it was successful or not? Because it may be that you didn’t set up yourself to be able to report on those things that you hadn’t thought about it. I used to give me an example aa lot of folks like tracking on giving tuesday kind of the reach of their messages because as we know, it isn’t just about the dollars range that day, but new folks who signed onto your newsletter people who maybe saw your messages and shared them so folks who were engaged in other ways and that means that you might want to set up certain tools you might wantto have a customized bentley or or other girl short ner link for your donation page that you’re using in all of your tweet so you can really see within that girl short ner screen how many tweets retweet that’s getting? How many folks are looking at how many people are clicking through you might wantto dive into your google analytics and set up some campaign you girls so that you can separate facebook traffic from email traffic from twitter traffic, for example, on dh you know, maybe you don’t care about those things just using those examples, but if you haven’t set them up ahead of time, it’s going to make it really difficult if you wanted to be able to report against those goals and of course, those air going to flow from what are your goals for the day, which which you’re always a proponent of, and we’ve also again talked about it many times. Why are you? Why are you in giving tuesday? What? What at the threshold what do you want to do for the day? Which jessica and i were talking about earlier? It could be any number of things from ah, community. A community day of service. Teo, i mentioned petitions. Could be dollars? Could be new volunteers, you know. What do you what’s your goal or goals for? The day and then that’ll drive. What you going to measure? What have i learned? Something from you through the years. I like it. At least that if i learned at least that much through the years. Okay? Yes, i like it. Okay, i’m trainable. Just anything you’d like to add, you know, metric wass no, but when one nava metrics, i think amy made a great point. But when, when she brought up reporting to board members and senior leadership, it just reminded me how important it is in advance of eating tuesday to get buy-in from that. Like, i love that you need to report to board members because it means that board members know it’s giving tuesday, and they’re excited and engage with your campaign and whenever there’s a reason i know all boards or different, but to engage your board around fund-raising in a new and different way, as opposed to kind of the traditional ways is great. So, yeah, i just i love that idea of getting the board onboard early and keeping them in the loop throughout the day and seeing how you can leverage their connections. And, of course, if a boardmember is willing to do a match always huge that especially if they’re planning on making an end of your gift anyway, saying to them, why don’t you use your end of your game, teo, as a match to kick off our giving tuesday campaign? Okay, cool, uhm ehm anything you’d like to add about e-giving tuesday way, i guess i’m the last thing i would want to say is that i don’t want to feel intimidated by the idea of participating and e-giving teams we have a small community of supporters are because i’ve never really done online fund-raising before, like you were saying, it doesn’t have to be a big fund-raising goal for you, maybe it’s just a chance for you to go get more people in your community to know about the programs you offer, recruit a new boardmember figure out that you have a handful of champions, right? It might just be kind of an introductory year with a lot of other goals that are still really important. Ilsen jessica, i wantto clothes with you tell tell me what you love about the work that you’re doing. I love that every giving tuesday i hear stories that we didn’t know campaigns, we don’t know we’re going to be happening happening that are just so heartwarming and show that there is such creativity in the nonprofit sector and that people are really thinking outside the box and want to experiment and want to try new things and in a way, that’s just just relate to it the more i just that it’s just so heartwarming that that e-giving tuesday khun really be this opportunity. Teo, bring us together to show, like, with the best in people and in just a fun, celebratory way. And i just love being witness to that. And you know where the home of giving tuesday, but really is a movement that’s built by families, individuals, all the non-profits out there so just yeah, thank you guys. Roll. Participating are considering participating. Absolutely. And you’re little more than a witness. You know, you’re a facilitator. Facilitator? Yes, but it’s it’s what all of you are going to do? That’s going? Teo make e-giving tuesday, two thousand seventeen. Amazing. Awesome. Amy, you wanna leave us with anything inspirational? Last? Well, you did. You know i don’t want to jump spot again. You did? You said you said don’t be put off by the size of your organization. Jessica and i had said that earlier, right? Small lords jumpin goto give it go to giving tuesday dot or go check it out. Okay, so i i don’t mean to put you on the spot again. You’re awesome. No, alright, that’s amy sample ward, our social media contributors ceo of inten you’ll find her at amy rs ward and jessica schneider. She is at your pal jess. Ladies thank you so, so much. Thank you for happiness. Thanks so much, tony. And thanks for paying for the conversation. Just said i was fun. Yes, agreed indeed. Thank you, jessica. Next week, oracle net sweet. They have lots of free offerings for non-profits you don’t know about this from oracle, that sweet you shall next week. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com and these are our sponsors. Pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com regular cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Wetness. Cps dot com stoploss accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producers, claire miree sam recruits is on the board is the line producer show social media is by seeing shadows in this cool music. By scott steindorff. Do with me next week for non-profit big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out green. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for September 22, 2017: Robertson v. Princeton

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Doug White: Robertson v. Princeton

Doug White is the author of “Abusing Donor Intent: The Robertson Family’s Epic Lawsuit Against Princeton University.” He returns to tell how trust eroded between donor and university, and a $35 million gift from 1961 ended in a messy lawsuit. He’s got lots of lessons to share to help you avoid the same. (Originally aired May 9, 2014)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Hey, you could catch maria simple on msnbc this weekend. She’s going to be on your business with j j ramberg on sunday at seven thirty a m eastern, so check out our prospect research contributor maria simple on msnbc sunday morning. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show robertson v princeton doug white is author of the book abusing donor intent, the robertson family’s epic lawsuit against princeton university. He returns to the show to tell us how trust eroded between donor and university and a thirty five million dollars gift from nineteen, sixty one ended in a messy lawsuit. You’ve got lots of lessons to share to help you avoid the same and that originally aired on may ninth twenty fourteen on tony’s take two five minute pg marketing we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not. A business you’re non-profit apple owes accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is doug white with robertson v princeton first piece. I am very glad to welcome back to the show and back to the studio. Doug wait, author, professor, advisor to non-profits and philanthropists he’s on the faculty in the masters in fund-raising program at columbia university. Abusing donorsearch intent is his fourth book. You’ll find him at doug white dot net. Welcome back, doug. Wait. It’s, good to be back and to see you again. I have to ask the question. That’s on everybody’s mind though. Cerebral ischemia. What is that? That’s? A well, that this week that’s that’s. What? I’ll suffer if i find out that someone had not heard this week’s show a cerebral it’s a form of a stroke ice since kenya’s had a sense that’s what? It was what i wanted to ask you, being an attorney and all. You probably come up with all of these terms. Yeah, well, we make the well back. When i was practicing law now we would make these things. Up there the way were we would defend against people who had made them up as if the slip and fall in aisle seven on the relish that’s that caused it, and an approximate cause of the ischemia twelve years later, that that was there was actually a cause and effect relationship and that’s what we were trying to defeat it’s great to see things haven’t changed and that’s actually kind of a segue way to a lawsuit story. I don’t know, i’m sure that’s true and that’s why i don’t practice law any longer because i was not interested in the relish bill in aisle seven, but this lawsuit that we’re going to talk about is a lot more meaningful than then slip and falls and trips and falls. You you spend your a lot of time thinking about ethics and fund-raising last time you were on, we were talking about your book around ethics, and this is, uh, donorsearch trust and loyalty. How were all these? How are all these related in your in your professorial authorship? Mind? Well, someone might accuse me of having a cerebral something else because of all of the mishmash that goes on. In my head on this stuff. But i won’t. But really, i think that there’s a lot to think about in the nonprofit world that we don’t otherwise think about, we think about fund-raising and we think about boards and all of those things are important, but i’m tryingto get a handle on what society does with its non-profit sector and how the non-profit sector responds back, and so it takes me to these corners that are really weird, and in this particular case, it took me to a story that had something to do with trust and a lot of money and a huge university. And the question is, how could someone accuse princeton of doing something so egregious and that’s? Not an easy question? Answer. In fact, when i went into this story, i didn’t think princeton was really all that guilty of anything, uh, ok, because, uh, as i read through the book, i sensed you trying to be objective. But in the end, i was left with the sense that you felt princeton really had wronged this. The robertson family. You want to tell the end right now? I’m trying to get people to buy the book here in the story. There you go there. Is going to see oil or alert? We only have an hour together. There’s lots of information that people going by the book around because you were just going to school is going to touch the were scratching the surface that’s in a mere hour. The book is very well worth buying. Nine just kind of yes, i know, but now that was the that was okay, we’ll get into the details of that, but i think it’s sort of a tease, you know, that is that was kind of what i was left with, and two thousand six i had finished the book called charity on trial and was interviewed on television station in washington, and somebody brought up the princeton case because i had written about it a little bit, it hadn’t gone anywhere. It was still in the lawsuit stage, and the interviewer asked what i thought of the princeton case, and i thought that princeton had a pretty good case to defend themselves on. I said that at the time, and i felt that for a long time because i like i’m sure many, many people feel like a place like princeton really has its act. Together and is a pretty good place, and i say that knowing that it’s, i still feel that way. But there were issues that i discovered along the way that i felt really made them look bad. Okay? Okay, and we’re going toe t c we’re going to follow your evolution, okay, you’ve you’ve you’ve come, you’ve come around. I know you’re thinking has evolved. Let’s, let’s not tease any longer. This this goes back to ah nineteen. Sixty one gift from charles roberts heimans set up a little bit for you. Charles robertson, co founder of the great atlantic and pacific tea company the mp supermarkets nineteen sixty one gift to princeton university. Well, let me just do a little bit of a nuance on that. Exactly. The wife, marie robertson, who is the heiress of the mp fortune. She funded it, right? She actually tent. Technically, did fundez yes way say that there were donors, but technically, there was one donor, and that was marie robertson. Okay, but charles robertson, her husband was such a large player in the gift you’re gonna you’re gonna hold my feet to the fire on the details. Well, you’re an attorney and i can’t. Well, i was i was that’s the second time. Now you’ve accused me. I’m not an attorney, sabelo you’re recovering attorney. Yeah. I mean, i do fund-raising more than i do. Attorney work. It plays a part, but i didn’t say it disparagingly. I say it with no i d s marriage, but but you should hold me to the fire because you wrote a book and oh, and i’m glossy. Andi, i you know, ignoring details. Okay. Yes, go ahead. Marie robertson was actually the donor. Yeah, technology. But we think of them as donors and that’s. Fine. She was the heiress of the mp fortune and her one tenth share of the stock when it became available to be invaded after the trust was dissolved in nineteen. Fifty seven was about ninety million dollars. She got ninety million dollars one day from the trust. And charles, her husband, her second husband. I was an investment adviser and he new two things. One is not only should this stock portfolio within the family be diversified, he also did not have any faith in the management of the mp at that time, after the original people died off. He didn’t think it was going to go anywhere. And he was actually right on dh. You could predict anything, but in this particular case, he was right. The mp actually filed for bankruptcy just a few years ago. I don’t know what status today, but it did have a lot of difficulty. The stock did go down, so they were right to a diversify. And also the other part of that in terms of wealth management planning was to make a charitable gift to save on huge, huge taxes. The marginal tax rate at that time was ninety one percent. So this brought them to the woodrow wilson school at princeton university. It did. Ah, charles was a graduate of princeton, so let’s get that out and they were both very interested. Or he was really the intellectual driver behind the gift and it’s purpose. He was very interested, but they both were. They were both interested in international relations. This was an era of that. Today we find it hard to even think happened. There was an optimism in the united states, and there was a lot of challenge because of the height of the cold war, too. In nineteen sixty one, kennedy had just been elected. And so there was the sense of america. Khun do it. There was this idea that we were going to go to the moon, which we did. There was this idea that we could almost conquer anything which we didn’t. But there was a sense, this vibrancy and the robertsons felt that it would be really great if we could go to a really great school, like princeton, the woodrow wilson school which existed before the gift, by the way, and have people go into the foreign service of the government to go out and spread american values, not in any political sort of away or ideological sort of way other than democracy, but do it through the idea of foreign service through a peaceful way. And so the idea was to get students who were at the woodrow wilson school graduate program to then go into the foreign service oppcoll the negotiations ensued, of course, a lot of talk about what the donor’s objectives were, and how to achieve those objectives of a sze yu put it, you know, the broad goal of strengthening the foreign service in the united states. And using the doing that through the woodrow wilson school, their phrase was strengthening the united states government pretty clear, it’s clear, but it’s also abroad. The specific phrase that i think we are probably gonna have to talk about a little bit is the phrase particular emphasis, the idea that students would go into the foreign service area or some branch of the government that had dealings with the foreign service, and that the school would put particular emphasis that’s in the document on putting those students in those positions. Okay, we’re gonna take our first break. Onda of course, doug white stays with us. We’re going to keep talking about the the evolution of this, the the gift and the lawsuit and the lessons, of course. That’s, you know, that’s important that we want to leave you with takeaways so that you can avoid something like this may not be epic in your in your case, but could still be very seriously want help you avoid problems like princeton had with his donors. So stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick, ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Duitz welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love today. Ah, directly live, because we’re pre recording today, but doesn’t you were listening live. I send you my thanks. Thanks for listening. And, of course, podcast pleasantries to those of you listening everywhere else but live very glad you’re with us. The now we have an hour, but we only have an hour. So we have to fast forward a little bit now, too. How things started. Teo devolve from charles and marie the parents to bill robertson, the son of charles and marie. Things started to break down over time in the in the relationship. One of the interesting aspects of this case is they started to break down a lot sooner than princeton had been saying. Charles robertson himself was very upset. Within a few years of the gift with the lack of results at the school, he had done a lot of research on what the school could do. He had talked to important government officials before setting up the foundation. And by the way, this was a foundation to support the program at the woodrow wilson school. Today, it would be known as, ah supporting organization back in nineteen sixty one, they didn’t have that, but that’s what effectively acted as and so he was on the board as well as two other family members. So there were three family members and for people from princeton on the board of this foundation called the robertson foundation that’s important, i think three family members, four people from princeton, absolutely. That was important for a lot of reasons that turned out to be one of the reasons that there was eventually a lawsuit, but it was also important for the irs to give its blessing to the charitable stature of this organization. So charles robertson knew that princeton would have the four votes they would have control. There was no real question in his mind, but he also wanted to have the families input too over the years over the generations. And so there was this balancing act that they were trying to accomplish, and i think they were all going into this in good faith. There’s no, in my view, any question about that? At the point, the gift was made, but there was always some question as to what the school was going to do. In other words, this was going to be a great program for international relations, and it is today. And i want to be clear about that it’s one of the best in the united states or the best in the world. But the gift was made in order to make room for students to go into the foreign service. That was the whole point of the gift. That was the point of the gift. It wasn’t to make the woodrow wilson school great. It was to put people into the foreign service or in the foreign relations positions in the united states government and that’s what wasn’t happening. And only a few years after that, charles robertson started to look at this and say, what’s our progress, and over the years, i don’t know the exact figure right now, but up until twenty or two, i would say perhaps thirteen to fourteen percent of the students actually went into the government, which was an abysmal failure from charles robertson’s perspective, and so he was upset from pretty pretty much the beginning, and i got my hands on documents that proves this. This was not something that bill robertson is inventing he’s able to show me letters that his father wrote angrily. I mean, there was a lot of emotion in these things to show that he was very upset with the progress of the woodrow wilson school bill robinson comes into the picture because he’s young at this point in nineteen seventy two i think he graduated from princeton himself, so he wasn’t really old. He came out of the board after one of the other family members went off and took basically his father’s place on the board on his family portion of the board in nineteen eighty one after his father died. And so bill took over that mantle of keeping a sharp eye on the progress of the woodrow wilson school graduate program, and continue to be unhappy with it. So it did go from charles to bill, but another dynamic here that we don’t often times take into account. What i tried to describe in the book was bill’s intense loyalty to his parents and in this particular case, his father he felt that his father and mother put this gift the hugest gift basically that had ever been given to a university to that time. And he felt that things weren’t being done correctly. And and his mother, too, was very there’s. Ah, something you say in the book that that bill feels very strong that his mother relied on on princeton and this gift up until her death? Yes, on dh. Trusted them. Yes. Yes, this trust was a big deal, and trust is a big deal in all of our lives, and i don’t know that we really analyze it well or feel it about it their way we might, but i feel strongly that both bill excuse me. Both charles and marie were hoping for more from this gift, and they were trusting princeton probably more than they should have been, but that’s another issue point is that by the time bill took over his seat on the board, things were not improving. And so bill kept up that as i say that that i on on the progress, that isn’t what triggered the lawsuit, but that was always ah, thorn in the side of the of the meetings on dove, the progress of the woodrow wilson school, they were not happy on dh there. I don’t know that there was based on what i’ve seen, i can’t say that i would actually say that there would be a point in that forty year history where they were ever happy. Okay, um, i have my favorite character in in the in this epic lawsuit, but i’m not going i know that i want to. Hold that dahna print co-branded an investment committee plays a big role here, and i think that has a lot and has a lot to do with the donor university relationship. Print go. You’re right, it’s the princeton investment company, i think. Oh, company. Yeah, those committee no. Close, close. Not bad. I’m gonna check you on that. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Check me out. Okay. While you’re doing that, i didn’t bring the book with me that i never bring the book because i don’t want to be, you know, page seventy four. You said all right, i’ll have to check later. This is the problem. Open book tests in high school. That’s why they don’t want to go ahead. All right. So the idea of going into a broader strategy for investing was anathema to bill, as it would have been to charles. In fact, part of the original document talked about how investments had to be put together. The idea was that print cho had been established a few years earlier, and the princeton and dahna, which had gone into several billions of dollars. At that point, i was going to be managed in a more modern way from them or traditional life and bill was way in the early eighties. Now we are in the early eighties. Yeah, we are actually. And charles did not want to get too risky with the investments, and neither did bill and bill, by the way, grew into a financial investment advisory capacity in his own right outside of this. And so he had some chops when it came to investigate. He also didn’t want to go to what became a pretty big norm at university investment houses. And that is to say, by the nineties late nineties, especially the idea of alternative investments was very, very popular, and the thieves were hedge fund these head from investing foreign in foreign companies. Yes. Now every every i have to say that what i was in this business in the investment business for charities, i understood there were lots and lots of asset classes and that’s fine way should always be on the cutting edge of understanding how finances and investments work. But they’re became a time when everything was going up and this happened throughout the two thousands to ana and what became really popular was what we call alternatives. Or the alternative investments like you say hedge funds and other things, and bill was really against that idea and print cho was going forward. He went down to print go because they were in another office and said, show me around and tell me what’s going on. And he was just not impressed with the idea of alternative investments and, quite frankly, again oppressions being what it is in twenty late that’s exactly what brought down these university endowments. In fact, princeton was so reliant upon investments they had about fifty percent or a little bit more in their endowment devoted to alternatives which, when i was in the world of investments back in the early nineties, we would think of two or three percent of a large and and so it got turned upside down, and that the tension was whether print coe should be investing the foundation assets along with the university endowment or and in the eyes of the roberts bill robertson that it should not print go should not have control over the investment exactly and that’s what triggered the lawsuit? It was that issue if you’re looking at one moment where the decision was made to actually file a lawsuit. It was one bill robertson finally got fed up after the after the board for two three voted to go to print cope, put the assets in the print going by the way that thirty five million dollars had grown to about eight hundred million dollars. That thirty five million dollars had grown to about eight hundred billion dollars by two thousand. Wow. Okay, that’s. Excellent perspective. All right, now we’re in the lawsuit. What else did the the lawsuit alleged besides the investment? Misappropriation? Well, not miss probation, but they were a couple of expenses and things like that. That right lawsuit alleged what happens? And you probably know this much better than i. But i learned this a little bit more during the course of writing the book. There was a complaint filed. We feel something is wrong, x and then there’s a response. And then in the process of looking at the issue’s, the plaintiffs have an opportunity to go through what’s called discovery. And in the process of that discovery, they discovered a lot of things that they didn’t know beforehand. So the original complaint had to do a lot. With print go, and it also had a lot to do with why students weren’t going into the foreign service. But during discovery, the plaintiff’s found that a lot of the money wasn’t being spent well, either. For example, people excuse me. Other departments at princeton were getting money from the foundation, and those departments weren’t really helping with the woodrow wilson school. The school princeton defends that and says, i’ll just use the phrase they use academic freedom. They say that academic freedom allowed them to make all of these decisions and bill’s perspective, as well as as well as the attorneys. Of course, for the family was that academic freedom, while it’s a cherished concept and we really want to make sure that we never really violated it still has its limits. You can’t, for example, well, maybe you can we don’t know this never was adjudicated by judge or jury so it’s we’ll never really know. But there was this guy this comment during the depositions, where the attorney for for the robertsons asked one of the president’s what what kind of expenditure would be allowed? And the person said, well, almost anything and the attorney said well, how about the hiring a basketball coach? Would that be allowed? And he said yes, oh, my yes, oh, my that’s a university president. That was the university. Yes saying this i forget whether it was the president or dean, i think it was the president and he said yes, because if we need to hire someone at the woodrow wilson school who likes basketball or whose husband or wife, teacher, our coaches, basketball or some connection and that brings that person to the woodrow wilson school, then we will spend that money on the basketball coach’s salary. Well, you can imagine how the robertsons would react to that. Yeah, and understanding that there is an idea, a fundamental, cherished ideal of academic freedom, we still are violating something very fundamental when that answer comes to the fore. Um, now listeners know that we have jargon jail on twenty martignetti non-profit radio, but i didn’t want to put you over there very simple. You know, the complaint that’s just i’m going to get you out of jargon job because i’m glad that you’re back for a third time on the show, so an attorney is going to get me. Out of the u s attorney’s doing all the time. We’re not all they are not. I’m not practicing law. I am not practicing law. There is that explicit. If i made that clear, those who do practice law often are getting people out of prison. It’s one of the noble or things that we do is restore someone’s freed that they do. They do pronoun trouble eyes restoring freedom to those erroneously held incarcerated. So yeah, the complaint is just that’s the way you you have a complaint. So that’s, how you start a lawsuit and discovery is exchange of all kinds of documents, and in this case it was emails and letters. Metoo certainly notes of notes of conversations you wanted. There was a lot. There was a lot in there that, as you said, the robertsons discovered that they hadn’t known about what was going on with the money in this discovery process of thousands of pages, you know, thousands of pages. Not all of them were stingingly terrible. Now, of course, a lot of it’s very mundane. Very, very monday, and you just have to sift through it because you never know when that nugget is. Going to pop out. But, yes, they found that this money was being spent all over the place at princeton and princeton will say, look, a woodrow wilson school is a great place. Okay, well, there’s, no question about that nobody’s arguing that but what we’re talking about is the intention of the donor and the document that was signed in nineteen sixty one that princeton agreed to, and so that the woodrow wilson school is a great place is true. But your relevant to this this question, the other thing was academic freedom. We can spend money pretty much however we want to. And the robertsons wanted to pull back on that. The another big issue in this was the how the robertsons legal fees are being paid. And that was being paid through the banbury fund. Another robertson family foundation let’s touch on that just lights. Just a little. Okay, princeton didn’t want that to happen, and the robertson said that they could do it. They got opinion letters from their attorneys and also had some precedents from the irs, both in private letter rulings and revenue rulings. So they were, i think, firm ground, but princeton still fights that battle today. They still say that it was improper for the banbury fund, too. Pay the robertson legal expenses. But from what i could say they were they were in a good place to do that. The robertsons work. Okay, um, starting to hint at some of our lessons for later on there was issue in the complaint also or in the subsequent complaint after the discovery around financial transparency. Yes. And disclosures that had not been made to the yeah, the robertsons family. Towboat robertson. So not only do we have these money, these dollars being spent their being spent without the family’s knowledge one was a a building that was being constructed almost entirely from the robertson. That was wallace all while, asshole. Yes. And if you ask bill robertson what the big reasons he went to court work, wallace hall was one of the three and a large part of that was they were not told this was taking place. So in other words, they took the position that not only could they use this money outside of direct connection to the woodrow wilson school, they didn’t have to tell the family about it. Forty three is this warner hall? I’m sorry. While us all was not part of the woodrow wilson school, not at all. It was not so to bill robertson. This is as far afield is hiring the basketball coach and paying for it exactly. He was very upset about that, and i don’t blame him. I mean, there were a lot of places where princeton didn’t have toe go to a lawsuit that could have done so much, and we’ll get to those in lessons later on. But when wallace hall came about, bill was livid. Yeah, well, s o you know, the institution does bad things, and then it covers it up and that’s the that’s, the financial transparency that was that was lacking, and it became part of the complaint. I’ve got more, of course, with doug white and the robertson lawsuit coming up first. Pursuant, their newest resource, the intelligent fund-raising health check downloaded for nine key performance indicators to measures your organization’s health. Ten universal characteristics of orders that are thriving in fund-raising eleven pipers piping, twelve drummers drumming i confess i had looked those up. 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Get the non-profit software, the accounting software that is built for non-profits from the ground up, and that is from apple owes appaloosa counting it’s designed for non-profits from the beginning, i think you got that you got the message non-profit wizard dot com that’ll take you to ap clothes and you’ll discover apple of accounting for non-profits now time for tony’s take two my latest video is five minute marketing for planned e-giving i stripped out the most important moments from this show several weeks ago where i did the whole first segment of the show on planned giving marketing, but five minute plan giving marketing quick, quick bursts for your events for your newsletter, whether it’s printer, digital for some printing when you’re printing emails and things, sorry when you’re printing envelopes, envelopes lots of quick ideas in there, distilled almost thirty minutes down to the essential three very tough task. But check out the video it sze three minutes of five minute marketing for plan giving it. Of course, that is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. And here is more of doug white talking about the robertson v princeton epic lawsuit. The great you’re still here, right? I am cool. So we have now this lawsuit and the discovery and the and the amended complaint based on what the robertsons learned through discovery. And this lawsuit is on for six between six and seven years. I imagine the relationship was pretty damn difficulty between the foundation board and the princeton university. Ah, the administration and the people who are on the board from princeton university. They have to get together for board meetings. Excuse me. Yes, they do. And the bill, sister catherine ernst, described it as having a boardmember and then attorney, then the boardmember and then attorney all around the table, and not only the family, but also the princeton side of the board. It was very tense. They describe how in the early days when charlie was alive, that the relations were very good. There would be lunch at the president’s house. There would be a lot of camaraderie, even the problems were developing. The relations were pretty good by the time the lawsuit comes around. Nobody’s talking. Anybody aboard? Yeah, board meetings. And it became the antithesis of what? And again, i teach board governance at columbia. And we talk about the need for ah, transparency and fluidity. And, you know, trust and none of that was was was there during this lawsuit so it’s very, very tense there, even they were actually having meals in separate rooms. That’s, right? They family really saying we’re family boardmember zand the princeton university board members would would have lunches in separate rooms. That’s, right? They did need an adult to come in and take things. It was they ended up doing there for the settlement, but at this point, it was just i can’t imagine how tense that had to be. Yeah, and over six, seven years, yes, right, yes. Okay, um, let’s. Bring us to the settlement. Twenty eight a lot of things are going on. First of all, it’s true that the robertsons we’re running out of money, even though the banbury fund was funding the lawsuits, the love fees added up to about forty five million dollars on each side, which is an incredible about the money and even a place like the banbury fund was starting to feel that now, if i’ve been a part of those teams, i’d probably still be practicing law. Yes, i would have been. The buildings are so easy when you’re in a lawsuit, but i just never got that far. I stuck it out for two years, and i never made it to this level. Well, the judge retired the one that everybody bonded. Teo in light and respected. He retired. The judge’s clerk left to go work for the princeton lawyers, which was interesting. The new judge could only give it one day a week. And that was maria psychic. And she i was only going to be able to do it for one day a week, which stretched the lawsuit out even further. Give a dog a car there. And so there was a lot of delay and and i get this even though we kind of make fun of this from time to time, that even though there was a delay and there was a slow down, the work still had to be continued. The law fees were continuing. And so the question of being able to pay for this was a very acute one for the robertson family. On the other side of the coin, the princeton investments were going south because the crisis was taking place. And they were, as i say, and alternatives. And so they were having a liquidity problem. I think they probably only source of liquidity. Most fat during that time was probably tuition paying parents was just a very tight time. They might not acknowledge it that way, but that’s pretty much how i see it. And so they were both ready. I think, to talk settlement. They had tried beforehand they didn’t get anywhere. Bill originally wanted to take the entire endowment away and put it somewhere else. And that would have been a really riel problem for the princeton. Because if for no other reason, it would have been a real blow psychologically to this story. I really university. I get what they wanted to do there, so they were going back and forth. And the question was, should we force the university to repay all these dollars that they had misspent, which could have been an excess of about two hundred billion dollars back into the foundation? Or can we just take the foundation away? Or can we split away from the foundation and they wanted independence? They wanted to say, okay, we want money to go do our own thing, that is, to say what my parents were doing, who his parents were doing, and the and princeton really didn’t want that, so they said, okay, what we’ll do is we’ll consider chopping off some of this money and giving it to you if you let us keep the rest of it, you guys go away and that’s, basically, what happened? They did bring in an adult david gal fan from milbank tweed who came in and his whole approach was saying not to say who had the better argument legally, his approach was, how can we get out of this mess? And i think he was a good voice. He was not part. Of the litigation. And he was a good voice to be brought in at this time, and he actually did the settlement. He was very good. And the settlement wass that princeton would reimburse the banbury fund the forty five million dollars for the legal fees. And in addition to that, over a period of time, the university would pay fifty million dollars to a new foundation. It’s called the robinson foundation for government. And it now exists it’s, a family foundation, and has its own work and does what it’s predecessor was supposed to do that is to put students into the federal government. But it is completely independent. Totally invested in university. Yeah. And then the rest of the money which probably added up to around six hundred fifty or seven hundred million dollars. Because during that period of time, during the crisis, the dahna came dahna shade. But let’s say six hundred million then was left. I don’t know exactly. The robinson foundation, by the way, was dissolved the original one. And so the money that was in it and was left for princeton went into its general endowment specifically for the woodrow wilson school and today the robertson family does not have anything to say about how that money is being used. There is a complete divorce. Okay, i think that can bring us teo somethings that charity’s can can take away. Um, i still haven’t revealed my favorite character, but we haven’t talked about that person. Um, agreements, should we start with a gram? And this was all went back to the to the phrase a particular emphasis. So do we, which was in which was in the original document creating the foundation? Yes, let’s. Talk about what? What level of scrupulous nous we need to have around agreements with donors. Let me preface it by saying the this this conversation, this part of it right now has a lot to do with understanding that this lawsuit was a story and it’s true and it’s big but it’s really? A reason for being important is that almost any charity and almost any donor i can get into this bind. So it’s not just ah, large family or a large university. Any endowed gift or any restricted gift really, really needs to be put together with what i would call the lessons you want. Bring us. We could easily be talking about a ten or fifteen thousand dollars gift easily, easily and that’s really one of the big messages here? This isn’t just about princeton has got a lot of interest, but it’s not just about princeton and so donors and charities both have to be aware of this when we say when we use phrases like in with particular emphasis, it has a meaning, but it doesn’t have an absolute meaning doesn’t mean that one hundred percent of the students are goingto go to the federal government, but it also doesn’t mean zero percent or ten percent. So we have to have an understanding you and i about what particular emphasis means if it were seventy or eighty or ninety percent, i don’t think charles robertson would have had any problem. I think even if he were sixty or sixty five percent, part of the problem was not just the results, and this is another thing they discovered was that princeton never really cared whether the students we’re going to go and the evidence of that was they never asked on the application whether they were interested in going into the federal government, so there. Was that part of the equation? So and i think you can relate to this as an attorney, we sometimes think of the laws being black and white and here’s what’s, right, and here’s what’s wrong. But a lot of phrases we use are are vague on purpose. They they’re meant to be because we can’t assign a value our specific numeric value to the word emphasis we just can’t do that. And yet, it’s an important idea in an agreement. So if a person is making an agreement today, one lesson is too if you’re going to use that kind of a phrase, uh, define it a little bit more than they did. One one word that gets us into trouble, i think, and fund-raising agreements and that is the word in perpetuity of the phrase in perpetuity because in perpetuity has has a meaning if you look it up. It’s very clear what that meaning is it means forever and forever has a meaning. And so, by definition, we cannot put into legitimately into an agreement, in my view, the word perpetuity because we cannot know what’s going to happen forever. So we have to be more careful. And crafting the language that we’re using. I want i made a gift to my own high school. This is a in the nineteen eighties of deferred gift. Where’d you go to high school exeter, phillips, exeter. And it was back in the day when pulled income funds were popular. You probably remember that yourself. None of our listeners will. There were there was a thing it’s, an antique drug in jail. Again. Well its way. But we have to define it’s now an out of date. Really? Life, income gift. A method through which donors got variable income for for their lives. And the variability became a big issue when interest rates were declining and the varying the variations were all down. And these have pretty much falling out of favor among among non-profits so that’s enough for me. So then come front. When i was doing the agreement, they said and i wanted to honor my english teacher and they said, this is back in like, nineteen, eighty four they said, you know, this going to sound weird, but we might not teach english forever, right? I thought, how is that possible? But it may not be possible. But it was also not conceivable that we wouldn’t be riding horses forever. So had an escape plus, saying that if this ever did happen that they be able to use it to a purpose is closest possible. Something, something that deals with ian practicability of yes, continuing the gift. Yes, and i’m tryingto bring this and tryingto respond to your question about how donors can and charities. Khun b take steps to avoid what happened to princeton so that we don’t just use words capriciously. We just have about a minute before a break, and there’s certainly board implications here, too. I mean, the princeton board reviewed the documentation and probably was involved in in a good degree in the negotiations board oversight of gift. Yes, this is a good example of that. Now, i don’t really fault the board at princeton to too much because it was nineteen, sixty one and not twenty fourteen, and so we’ve learned a lot in the last half century about board oversight and so forth, but that said thie gift was basically shoved through. It was a last minute quick kind of a thing had nothing to do with there at the time current capital campaign and the president really did not have the fullest discussion with the board about this gift, and they should have so board oversight of that process is really critical. We could go out front brake, and when we come back, doug and i will keep talking about the lessons from this epic lawsuit robertson v princeton like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. As we make our agreements more specific and and defined terms as you’re suggesting, we can actually get into trouble because the specificity now binds us two teo, try to predict what’s going to happen and try to predict what issues are goingto a result. So there’s a there’s a balance between specificity and flexibility there is, and when i was saying earlier that we need to be more specific, er not use words capriciously, you’re right, i had that in mind to that there is a balance and it’s there’s always going to be tension. And so the question is, how do we avoid this kind of a thing going into the future? And one of the things that you can avoid has nothing to do with the agreement. It has everything to do with relations. If princeton had done so much differently, this wouldn’t have gone to where it went. But it was the lack of trust, the erosion of trust over the decades that really set the stage for this. Then you can go to the agreement say you’re not doing this well if you have the trust going on at the same time, you don’t need to go to the agreement, say you are or are not doing something but that’s it so so that’s probably the best lesson that anybody can learn from a charitable perspective anyway, to stay in touch with the airs at the donors and the heirs forever. This is an obligation, and if you don’t feel you can do that, you don’t feel you, khun obligate your success is that the organization to do that, then don’t promise to do that that’s part of the deal here in plan giving, when i was in plan giving, doing these kinds of things and talking to you too plant giving directors, i would say you’re you’re actually making an agreement here that will go on for well past the time you’re here, and probably perhaps well past the time you’re even alive. So many generations of successors after you are going to have to do what you’re agreeing to do today, keep that idea in mind when you make these agreements and this particular agreement, nothing was going to erode the idea of a federal government or the need for foreign relations, but still there could have been mohr a trust and more. Specificity, i think, in the agreement, although i don’t think the specificity was the issue here, i think the idea was pretty clear, i mean, with particular emphasis might be a vague term, but it does have enough of a meaning and enough of an understanding by people who consider the table to know that thirteen percent just doesn’t cut it. You know, you know, the good communications and keeping in touch, and in this case, there were there were different presidents who could at any time i thought when, when there was a new president, he or she could have said, you know, we’ve made some mistakes in the past, obviously i was not in charge then, but here’s what here’s, what happened and here’s what we’re gonna do, teo, and make sure that this doesn’t happen again, that humility is so crucial, especially the non-profit i can understand boisterousness from ah for-profit especially if it’s a big one, but at a non-profit there’s this extra special place that non-profits haven’t talked about that in the other book, the non-profit challenge where that humility plays a large large role or should now, just so you’ll know, since this book was published other organizations, air writing reviews and trying to talk with both me and princeton. Princeton refuses to talk about it. They give the same press release that they give that they gave after the settlement they do not want to acknowledge, but something went wrong. How they could possibly agnostic. Now i could understand them having a defense, but to say they were totally in the right, it blows my mind, you know that? Yeah, that sounds like lawyers giving advice and and driving the decisionmaking vs people who are more interested in the long term relationships with donors and alumni. That was paul volcker’s perspective. I interviewed him because he’s, a princeton alum, and he also had a perspective on this situation at the woodrow wilson school. And he was complaining about the woodrow wilson school separately and before the lawsuit ever came, so he was doing it entirely independently. And when the lawsuit came around, he told me, i think the lawyers are driving this. They’re saying, princessa can admit to nothing but i’m thinking, okay, i get that it’s not good, but i get that. But here we are, what, five years? Seven years. Six years after the settlement and they’re still saying we didn’t do anything wrong. Is bill robertson willing to talk now? Yeah, bills bill is going to be speaking with me up in boston next week. Oh, i could’ve had bill roberts instead of you. You could have a visible the name in the lawsuit instead of the guy who just follows it later on, you’re in the gundam, maybe it’s somehow it’s done now. Alright, alright, to settle for this second best. Okay? And so, as we are crafting these agreements again, the board’s role in reviewing agreements whether whether it is appropriate to buying this organization forever in perpetuity, or should we stop short of that and the board is really the last step two that can raise a red flag for the organization it is, unless you can come to some agreement as to what in perpetuity means as they did at the a museum of ma metropolitan museum of art a few years ago. And philippe de montebello said, we think in perpetuity really means seventy five years on the donor agreed to that. Well, that’s ok, that’s coming is a definition. There was a definition, right? So in perfect, what he didn’t really mean what it means in addiction, right? Fright, but yes, you’re right, i think the board has to be very cautious of that. My favorite character, we didn’t talk about her, but you dedicated the book to jessie lee washington. I did, i don’t want to, i’ll let you explain, but we just have it. We just have a couple minutes explain the crucial role just a jesse was an employee at that. The university was asked to look into endowments at the divinity school and found some irregularities and did a report, and it was put away for a while. Then she left on dh. Then the lawsuit became really big, and she said, you know this? What i was working on in the divinity school is very similar to what the lawsuit is alleging. So she came out and went to the lawyers for princeton with seth lap ido and said, i have a story to tell you, and when she got on the phone, seth said, we’ve been waiting for you to come. He didn’t know who it was going to be, but he figured there would be some other person in princeton who would be familiar with this activity that princeton was doing in the endowment accounting and she really represent she she i think, was very courageous. She put her reputation on the line and said, i am willing to go on the record to say what’s wrong here, and he dedicated the book to her, and that was so touching. And i think, well, she’s, my favorite because i believe that most people want to do the right thing and she’s a perfect example of stepping forward being courageous the way you describe most people in non-profits and donors want to do the right thing. I think you’re right. I know you’re right. Doug, wait, author, professor, advisor non-profits and philanthropists. He hangs out at columbia university teaching at the masters and fund-raising program. You will find him at doug white dot net. The book is abusing donorsearch intent. The robertson family’s epic lawsuit against princeton university it’s a very, very good story and very well told doug white. Thanks so much. Thank you, it’s. Good to see you again. Pleasure. Did you think that i was going to wrap up this show without live? Listen, love. Podcast pleasantries an affiliate affections lima, lima, lima podcast pod papa papa an alfa alfa. Certainly not certainly not can’t happen. So the liveliest naralo let’s go abroad. I like the start abroad today in ah poon a india i believe i’m not sure i’m pronouncing it right, but india is definitely with us. Germany. Guten tag. We can’t see your city, russia i’m sorry, we can’t see your city. I don’t know if i should be surprised there, but we cannot, um anybody else abroad? Yes, none, none name none in china ni hao and nobody from nobody from south korea. You know what? I bet south korea’s there, but we just can’t see them, so i’m certainly going to send on your haserot comes a ham nida to our listeners in south korea, there always there and, uh, come in a little closer to home. Coming. Georgia, georgia, i cracked again. Elizabeth, new jersey! I know elizabeth well, i don’t know this, but this is my grandmother used to work at a plant. It was a pharmaceutical plant in elizabeth going back-up a number of years. Elizabeth, new jersey live. Listen love to you also live love goes out to tampa, florida. Woodbridge, new jersey, south orange, new jersey. Why would get jersey checking in lots of places, mostly north. Let’s. Cool, though. And bayside, new york and queens live. Listen love to each of you. Thank you so much for being with us and we’ve got to send the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listening in the time shift. Thank you. 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So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 1, 2017: Fiscal What?

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Gene Takagi & Andrew Schulman : Fiscal What?

Fiscal sponsorship. You’ve probably seen it and don’t know what it’s called. We’ll fix that as we cover what it is; who does it; how it can help your work; getting started; and what can go wrong. Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group. Andrew Schulman is with Schulman Consulting.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We got two new sponsors to welcome today. Wittner, cpas and apolo software welcome, wagner. Welcome apple, o’s. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get slapped with a diagnosis of collect a zia if you tried to milk me with the idea that you missed today’s show physical what fiscal sponsorship you’ve probably seen it and don’t know what it’s called will fix that as we cover what it is who does it, how it can help your work getting started and what could go wrong? Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo non-profit and exempt organizations more group and andrew shulman is with shulman consulting. They’re both with me for the hour. Tony take two sponsor love responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com and by wagner sepa is welcome wagner guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting software designed for non-profits welcome abalos, they’re at non-profit wizard dot com and by we be spelling. Supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be the spelling dot com. What a terrific pleasure to welcome back jean takagi. You know him? You know, i’m for pizza, but he deserves a proper introduction. Of course. He’s, a managing editor, managing attorney of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. And he edits the popular, wildly popular. You should be usually following this blood non-profit law block dot com highly recommended by non-profit radio and he’s, the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tack on twitter welcome back, jean. Hi, tony it’s. Great to be back. Ah, pleasure and were joined. Bye, andrew showman. He runs the only consulting practice in america focused on fiscal sponsorship, showman consulting, assisting both sponsor organizations and fiscally sponsored projects. He’s, an active member of the national network of fiscal sponsors and a probono consultant for the taproot foundation. His companies that showman consulting, dot com and he’s at am shulman. Welcome, andrew. Thanks for having me, tony. Good to be here. Pleasure. I’m glad you both with me. Thank you for the hour we got we got a big topic this fiscal. What? This fiscal? Sponsorship. Gene let’s, let’s. Start with you. What? What? What are we talking about? Fiscal sponsorship. But it is a little bit of a complicated topic. We have an hour together, which is great. The pickles sponsorship can mean a lot of things. And so when people use the term pickle sponsorship, many of them are thinking of it as a kind of using another organization to raise money so that they could get a charitable project off the ground without forming a new non-profit. But it also refers to other types of relationships as well. But it generally refers to the ability of the charitable project to get the benefit of a five a one c three and raising money through five twenty three through the relationship of the project leaders with the five o one c three o’clock you are approached by a lot of, well, intention, zealous people who want to start non-profits and you just mentioned this can be an alternative to that. Do you have you guided people in this direction? Oh, and it has been successful. Yeah, absolutely. Tony so it works is a great incubator for charitable ideas that organizer’s may not be. Sure of you know, we’ll get off the ground or not, but they’d like to give it a try where might be for a limited scope, it might be for you no one event a year or we’re going to just do it for one year and see what happens. It’s great to have a another charity out stairs and things, you know will sponsor even we’ll, you know, we’ll sort of recognise this is an internal project of ours, and you can work with us to do it. And if it works, maybe spend off later and you form your own non-profit so it works of the great incubator, and i often advise smaller organizations that don’t have a lot of administrative expertise. Teo, think about pickles and jean have you also worked in your practice with the sponsor organizations? Yeah, with several sponsors throughout the country, tony and on their way to do it right into ways to do it wrong. So hopefully we get a chance to look into those things a little bit more. Okay? Sounds good. Andrew let’s bring you in. I know your practices both on the sponsoring side and also the the sponsoring a project side. Anything you want to add at the at the outset, the way tryto break this down for people. I would just just echo what you said about, you know, its sponsors have bean a lot of different things, and you know, it the most interesting thing that i’ve run into is that everyone has a, you know, a little bit of personal experience, i say they were looking at physical processes through a keyhole, and if you sort of pull back there’s actually a whole landscape of different things that it means and different ways that could work. So that’s, what it’s really about? Okay? And i got i got, i guess, validation for the two of you being expert in this area, someone e mailed me someone who works in non buy-in the fiscal sponsorship and said that both jean and andrew are experts on then, of course, now we’re on facebook live live listeners if you want to follow us. Ah, watch the video facebook live! Go to the tourney martignetti non-profit radio page, facebook and document hello, reed reed says gina’s, an awesome expert. Thanks for the topic. Absolutely, reed. You’re in the right place. You should be here every every friday one to two eastern. This should be your your staple friday at one. O’clock! But i’m glad you’re with us today read on also vanessa jones is on facebook live hello? Vanessa. Hello. Um okay, so yes, you both said lots of ways to do this, and in fact, there are models a through f so we’ve got six models, but the two of them are the most popular a and c i don’t know why it’s not a and b maybe we can bring that up with the national, the the national national network. Thank you. Thank you, andrew. National network of fiscal sponsors, but anyway and see the most popular. So we’re going to spend time there, but let’s see andrew let’s stick with you. What? Just let i don’t want to tick off six different models because we’re not going to spend a lot of time on four of them. But just what? What are the distinction? Like what? What characteristics distinguish generally between the six models? What kind of different things that we see in the six different models and then we’ll have time to focus on amc. Okay, okay. Yeah. I will go through all of them individually. But, you know, the key differentiator is elearning and this is something jean will hopefully timing as well. Is the legal relationship between the bumper and the project? Ok? And so do you. Think of it. Spectrum, you know is at one and where the project is essentially the eyes of the law of the ira. Just the program pasta. Looks like they decided to start up a new program. It was much the same way to the regulators, you know, down to, uh, c is one where the project is actually a separate legal entity has its own. We got standing, but just does not have usually does not have a five. One two three on those using the answer for that. So there’s all between there there’s all different relationships on different setups, but basically dependent on what that relationship looks like. Sort of what level the project is at in terms of their i don’t know their situation of you know, either. Incorporated. You have any standing? Okay. Okay. So, it’s a different relationships between the two. Andrew, when we come back to you, i need to speak up a little louder. Okay, try toe latto. Right. A little post it note on your by your phone. And speak a little louder. Okay, so you remember through the hour you’re coming in to buy it for everybody. Okay, now i did find, you know, contrary to popular belief. Actually research these conversations before i have them. And at fiscal sponsorship dot com there’s an article by someone who i think is pretty well known in this area. Greg gregory colvin on my right, gentlemen, he’s he’s written a book. Yeah, i don’t have that right. Yes. Okay on dh he’s got a chart. So if you go to fiscal sponsorship, dot com in this paper by him which is called presentation on fiscal sponsorship also aptly named good for him there’s a chart. And it has the a through f and lays out different basic characteristics. And whether it’s a separate legal entity and we’re the charitable of nations belong and things like that. So if you want to, you want to get more detail on the six. Certainly khun consultant jean takagi or andrew goldman. But if you want to see a simple chart, then you could go to fiscal sponsorship. Dot com. Okay, gene let’s. Um, let’s, let’s. Start toe. Break these down. Model a. Way let’s say we just have, like, a minute or so before break. So why do you just given overviewing of of what? A model, eh? Looks like jean sure. So it’s actually exactly what andrew? It said it. It really is an internal program or unit of the fiscal sponsor. And what happens is the project leaders, the people who come up with the idea that they want this project sponsored, go up to the physical sponsor and say, hey, can you develop a internal program within your entity within your charity, but delegate management of it up on the one thing that separates it from just being a plain vanilla internal program? Is that there’s a fiscal sponsorship agreement that allows the program organizer’s or the project organizer to spin it off at any time? They decide that the fiscal sponsorship relationship isn’t right? Or they decided that there finished with the incubation and they want to set up their own non-profit bible, twenty three entity and then move the programme over into that new energy so that basically modeling in that shop? Okay, cool, well done on. We’re going to dive in further on that and talk. About the pitfalls contracts. Bond, gentlemen, what i do want to do is i want to approach this from the perspective of a potential sponsors, because we’ve got, you know, over twelve thousand people working in and around small midsize non-profit. So they’re all potential sponsors, so that i want to look at it from that perspective more than the perspective of the potential projects. Okay, so everybody stay with us. Fiscal sponsorships continue. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the, uh, they’re ninety five percent got a bunch of people who joined us on facebook live. I love it, rob meger, dahna lechner character chicky and i think we’re headed to the beach. Gary astro, welcome, welcome. Uh, is that kurt? Kurt hildebrand? Okay, welcome, facebook, live. Glad you’re with us. Um, okay, so. Uh, your name is jean, not sam. Sorry. Nobody’s name here starts with an s so that was that was a big faux pas. Okay, gene let’s, let’s. Go a little further with model a. Why? Let’s again? From the sponsoring organizations perspective. Why would non-profit want teo taking an internal project from some bunch of ruffian startups? Start up people with a lot of passion, but not any business sense. What’s the advantage to the that sponsor organization. Well, hopefully they have a little bit of business. Otherwise you wouldn’t take them. Yeah, all right. That’s, the main reasons why a physical sponsor and existing charity would say, hey, i’m willing to sponsor your project and actually make it an internal program of our entity. The main reason they should do that, it’s because it furthers their own charitable mission. So that should be the number one reason what ends happening sometime by maybe less informed leaders of some organizations that might be willing to physically sponsor a project is that they think that it might be a way to make some additional money on. And they might say, hey, we can raise funds for this program. But you know, bring in a little of that for our own general admin purposes, and maybe that that’ll that’ll effectively give us more resource is to do everything else. Okay, well, right, because andrew there’s a fee associated with this, right that the sponsoring organization charges the project. Yes, i think that’s correct, usually it’s space, either on the revenue that’s raised percentage or face on the expenses of that project. Okay, and what, what, what, what? What’s. A typical range what’s fair. Well, it depends on the model depends on a lot of things, but i would say anywhere between five and fifteen percent. Okay. Okay. Uh, in the rain. All right. We’re just right now. We’re just talking about model a sow is that? Does that apply for model a five to fifteen percent? Yeah. Model a. We’re probably looking at four of us st nine. Ten. Fifteen. Okay, a little bit hyre right, because the organization that sponsors is taking on a lot of responsibility, right? Let’s, start flushing that out. Yeah, exactly. There. They’re taking on all of the legal responsibility all of the risk in terms of liability for the project. A cz well, as taking on the financial management of the donations that are coming in and how they’re being piela being spent all that money being spent, the employees rest if there’s paid employees so there’s a lot of a lot of pieces for the for the for the pompel okay. And what what’s the board’s obligation here before we before we take this on it. It sounds like something we shouldn’t do just for the revenue. Wait, let me just let me just start with that question. We should not do it. And i think gene was alluding to this. We shouldn’t do it just for the money. Do i have that right? Yes, i would say nobody should get into any part of non-profits to make a lot of money. Okay? And, of course, you know, even e guess, even if it furthers your mission. But you know, if you’re not really into the whole idea, but you just feel like you could let’s say it does meet the criteria that gene mentioned definitely furthers your charitable mission. Ok, got that. But then wait. We could make some money at it. You know where we’re like, lukewarm on the relationship idea. But, you know, we could make nine or ten percent that’s. This is not the way to go about it, right? Right. Right. Yeah. It really also requires the sponsors have there processes of infrastructure in place to do what? Well, i know there’s. We’ve talked about the book that six ways to do it right, andi, i know jean government have flogged their six ways to do it long from a legal standpoint in my world. From the operation standpoint, there’s, probably about a hundred ways to do it wrong on one of them is trying to take on a project as a sponsor when you don’t have your own infrastructures, set up well, and your financial processes and on all of that work is not sort of ready for prime time than if you take on someone else’s. On top of that, you’re just setting yourself up for bad situation. You alludes in the book? I didn’t. I didn’t make the connection explicitly. The book is by gary coleman. Is that right, greg? Greg coleman, thank you. Six. What is what is the exact title of his book? Jean correct me if i’m wrong, but i think it’s a fiscal sponsorship six ways to do it right? Yeah. That’s absolutely right. And and greg corbin is the guru oh, on this topic, tony he’s he’s really led the whole movement on dh written really? The seminal book and probably only full sized book on the matter. And it’s any non-profit actually wants to start a physical sponsorship program or hasn’t, you know, has started doing it kind of informally, but not really gotten their ducks in order. They should buy this book and read it very carefully. Okay. Greg colvin, fiscal sponsorship. Six ways to do it right. Is that right? That’s? Right. Okay, jean let’s flush out some of these legal responsibilities that ah, sponsoring organization is taking on under model a what does the board need to consider and be aware of? So apart from from the mission of the project, they want to make sure that they got the right sort of project leadership in place. They obviously, as andrew was saying, you’re taking on not only all of the responsibility, the legal responsibility, the project and the financial management responsibilities project, but everything to do with the project is to do with your organization as well. So it’s there any risks involved in that project? The liabilities are going to be the physical sponsors you’re not isolated from that. So you’re taking on all that responsibilities the board has got to think about on dh sometimes he delegates this off to management that the project is well to find enough to be able to do it, but i like it when boards actually approved the projects and take a look at the application, which might include bios of the project leaders, um, and any special rigs that might be involved with their activities. So if there are working with children no, if they’re going on outdoor expeditions or if they got a camping program, is going to be dealing with research for on any see more than just sort of playing administration in an office they’ve gotten think about the risks and whether they have the right insurance in place and all of the infrastructure things that andrew said they’ve got to get in order before the accept the project, those are all the things that the board has to say. Yes, we’re prepared. To take on this particular project because we’ve got all our ducks in order to be able t o i handle the management and oversee all of the management of this particular project, its employees and volunteers and everything else. All right? I’m i’m getting i’m getting tired now of talking in the abstract i want i want toe implore you to tell me a story. So, gene, can you have you have a client story you could tell about a model, eh, fiscal sponsorship that that went well? Sure so ah, a typical model a project make may come in that say says we’ve got this great idea. We’re going teo run an after school program for children’s education in this area of a city that doesn’t get much of those services. We’re not sure you know if it’s gonna work or not, we project that we’re goingto bring in about one hundred thousand dollars a year, and we’re not sure of funding outside of the first year we’ve got some donors and foundations, perhaps that if we have a five a one c three, they will commit. So we’ve got this first year commitment of one hundred thousand dollars we’re not sure after that, if it’s gonna work, so we’re looking for a physical sponsorship relationship to start out with, and that might be kind of the first cases of saying from the physical sponsors point we’ll have you done anything like this before? Have you raised funds before or, you know, how did you get this initial one hundred thousand dollars worth of commitment on dh? What risk is there going to be involved in your after school program? What exactly? When are you going to do who’s going to manage it? Do you need employees? You know, are you going to be all volunteer, right? Those are the types of questions that need to be asked of this particular project that we’re talking about and sometimes stop, you know, in that particular project that i’m thinking of, you know, ended up becoming a great project for that sponsor, the people that brought in the project, we’re really focused on program and fund-raising they didn’t want to worry about all the admits, what filings to make? They didn’t wantto worry about payroll tax withholdings or insurance developed beings called the government’s policies, or even putting together a real board of directors, andi get all of that through the physical sponsors that works really well for the project and the programme leaders. The fiscal sponsor gets this project because they’re also interested in in-kind of children and youth programs in their area, they get this great project that gets a lot of attention, does very well, not only for the first year, but for subsequent years after that, and a great long term relationship arises, and the project actually ends up staying with the physical sponsor, not just through an incubation period that they never want to leave the fiscal sponsors. If you imagine tony one hundred thousand dollars, if we’re talking about even ten percent in administrative fees that’s only ten thousand dollars that’s the project would be paying to the physical sponsor in order to get all of those things. All of the insurance policies of filing no set up that a great relationship that can happen. Okay? And it’s continued, gene has been successful staying with that sponsor organization for many years. All right, andrew, i’ll give you a chance when we get the model. See, i’ll give you a chance to tell a story. Ok, not to worry, okay, um, but still i model a andi want remind listeners i’m talking. Teo jean takagi, principle of neo non-profit exempt organizations, law group and our our legal contributor. And andrew shulman, principal at shulman consulting shuman consulting dot com and we’re talking about fiscal sponsorships right now. Model a. We’ll get to the model, see, and we’ll find out why be got skipped over andrew, what do you what do you like to see you mentioned? There is a lot of things that can go wrong. Tick off some things that you like to see in a written agreement, and i’m presuming that there should be a written agreement. Everything i read said there ought to be a written agreement, but sometimes there isn’t, or a lot of times there isn’t so let’s, just assume that non-profit radio listeners are going to do it right. There is going to be a written agreement between the two entities. What do you like to see in that agreement? Well, i like to see i like to see a lot of things, i mean, okay, i mentioned before, nothing, one of the most important one is how you know a clauses in sections that that will tell how this relationship might end it already if and when it’s ready to be ended by either party. So if the project isn’t doing well and the practically there’s aside, okay, we’re you know, we’re going to close up shop. There should be part of the contract that say, ok, when that happens, here’s, how we’re going to do it wording and andrew, including the possibility of spending off to a different supporting organization, right? Right. So that’s the other side, if it does well and they decide either way, we need to move to a different sponsor that maybe has mohr provoc rise more services or more services. Tailors are specific needs or we want to go out. We’re at the point where we’re big enough people enough, we get our own. Five. One, two, three. You know what? How? What are the rules? And one of the for the processes dictates that so that that should all be in the contract, i’m i also like tio put in again, i’m not a durney venus, but i like to also put in the expectations of both the sponsor that the project should have for the sponsor and that the sponsor has for the project, so that gets into a little bit of process. And, you know, when, how long should we expect as a project that’s gonna take us a sponsor too? Latto check when we need to, you know, make a payment to a vendor or to review a contract before we before we do it, how, you know, if we’re if we’re applying for institutional grants from foundations, what’s the role of the project of the sponsor in that those kinds of things as well so that that’s the kind of stuff that usually gets skipped over in a lot of cases, but i found that to be successful as a sponsor, you really have to set the expectations up front of both how you’re going to operate with the project and what you expect from them. Jean would you want to add on the contract side so just clarity about that, that the project and all of the funds raised for the project are really funds raised for the physical sponsors, the party that signed the contract with the physical sponsors so the project leader they’re not registered to engage in fund-raising themselves and they don’t have five a onesie three status out neither the physical sponsors, so they have to realize that when they’re fund-raising there fund-raising as agents of the five a onesie threespot co sponsor, and they’re raising funds for an internal project of that sponsors so it could be restricted funds that they’re raising but it’s not funds for their separate entity or anything like that. So when they spend off, they might form a separate entity. But ultimately all of the funds belong to the sponsors, so there should be that legal understanding and the contract has got to recognize that. Because if you run into an issue with the irs for an attorney general or other regulators, that documentation has got to be perfect, even though ultimately the sponsor should be willing to transfer out the assets that you’ve got a suitable successor that’s willing to take on the project, including if the project leader’s create their own five a onesie three entities, now they’re going to be little caveat to be careful about. So here we go. One of the reason why the termination is because the project leaders have failed miserably and even embezzled money from the organization. Well, then you don’t wanna transfer assets out to something that they created that you know, would be imprudent for for the physical sponsors board. So little caveats like that you gotta be careful about, and then when they draft an agreement, you want to make sure that the sponsor is protected and doing it in the right way. Okay, we’re going tow. We’re going toe. All right, hold on. There just latto close that model a conversation. When we come back, we’ll do the model c will move to that. See what the differences are. See. See what it means legally, andi, i have to do in the meantime, do a little business first, beginning with pursuant, they’ve got a new free content paper for you. And that is the intelligent fund-raising health check. Health care is in the news. This is a fund-raising health check evaluates state of your fund-raising it includes nine key performance indicators. I think those air kp eyes if you want to be jargon e, but we’re not, we’re not here. Ninety performance indicators and ten characteristics of organizations that thrive. Where do you go? You go to tony dot m a slash pursuant twenty dollars starts pursuing check out free resource is from our sponsors pursuant weinger cps welcome again. Welcome, wagner. Welcome to non-profit radio. They are a cpa firm based in madison, wisconsin, and true to their tagline, they do go way beyond the numbers. They are also very generous with tons of free resource is they’ve got a page and has dozens of policy statements for you, including all the policies you need to make your form nine ninety complete like committee meetings, disclosures on fraud, document retention, lots of others and you’ll be hearing me talk about thes from week to week got to check these resource is out too, you know? Different but valuable absolutely from wagner cpas there at wagner c p a’s don’t forget, the less at the end dot com weinger cps dot com you’re quick resource is then guides stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you are in a business, you are a non-profit you’ve heard rumors to that effect welcome apolo software, our second new sponsor, this this week. Apple juice, apple of accounting is the product, and it is designed for non-profits. Don’t use the business software for non-profit your non-profit europe near you are born, used one that was built from the ground up for non-profits financial management. Simple, affordable it’s called apple, owes accounting. It includes fund accounting, advanced reporting, donation, tracking everything you need in one simple software, and you want check out apple of software. You want to see what what apple’s accounting is about. You go to non-profit wizard dot com that is our sponsors, those are our sponsors, welcome new sponsors. I’m very grateful for that. And now it’s, time for tony stick, too, and i am imploring you to show love to our sponsors are our listeners, whether you’re alive. Podcast or affiliate? I’m so grateful. That was not a side. That was a sign of gratitude that everybody’s with us. Um, i need you to ah, i need to check out the sponsors. It’s important. We need them to stay with her us so that we can continue to attract great guests. I can continue to take the show on the road to conferences will get outstanding speakers. They’re the conference speakers. I need you to support our sponsors on their new ones coming october first. So you may hear me mention this again. But for now, pursuant regular sea pia’s appaloosa counting on dweeby spelling. I need you to check out all our sponsors if they if you think they can help you, please let them check them out. Thank you very much. That is tony’s take two and i am with jean takagi and andrew shulman. We’re talking about fiscal sponsorship. Gentlemen, i think we’re ready to move. Teo model. See, unless unless somebody has something burning that the lackluster host did not cover in model a. So anybody, anybody have to say something about model, eh? Okay, going, going, gone. Thank you, thank you. Um, let’s. Move to model c and, uh, give it to andrew. What distinguishes model c from model, eh? Church model c is more of an armed blink relationship. Aunt it’s usually just face around a, uh, candy to space around a specific activity or even a specific grant about me from the project that the project is soliciting through the sponsors tax id number. So basically, in this case, the project, it is not a division or unit sponsor, but they have their own legal status. They usually registered within their state as a charitable organization, but they don’t yet have a five twenty three or don’t have a five, twenty three andi so they remain distinguish where here is that instead of handing off all of that administrative were to the sponsor with model, eh? I don’t see a lot more of that falls on the project, but they’re really just utilizing that. Five, twenty three status of the sponsor two taken tax deductible. So so is this just temporary? Until the the project gets its five. A onesie three designation from the irs, it can be can be temporary. Can be longer term candy. You know, there’s. A lot of uses. I know we haven’t gotten the story time. Yes, but there’s a lot of uses. For model b, the art where if you can imagine, a documentary filmmaker is doing a film that has a terrible purpose heimans telling an important story and they want to raise money via donations. I willbe tax deductible from the donors. And so instead of going through the process of getting their own twenty three, they can actually go through a physical sponsor of the model t and do it that way. Okay, uh, and reminder. I should’ve i should’ve mentioned it earlier. Andrew, remember to speak louder. Okay, write yourself a note and then look at the note to you’ve got to look at the note after you write it. Uh, jeanne model see what you want to add. So i’ll just build on what? But andrew, it just said a lot of times this is a project that thought by arts groups, sometimes by by research group, and they may not actually deformed the non-profit they might just be individual. So proprietors in the case of artist oh, are they might be just a for-profit type of al, l, c or business corporation, but beached in some sort of charitable effort. So the general idea here is they want to raise some money, and they’ve got some willing funders either donate or make grant to this specific project, but the funders and the donors the donors want to get a tax deduction for making the grant, but they can’t make a grant to liken individual artists and just take a deduction for that right on the foundation may not be able to make a grand to an individual artist without jumping through more hoops that they have to do under the regulations when they give to non charities, so both of them would rather give to a charity. But the fund what the artist maybe doing and in that case give it to the physical sponsor and the physical sponsor has the ultimate legal control and discretion over what they’re going to do with the money subject to the restrictions that the donors put. The donors are not going to say you have to give it to this individual artists what the donor’s going to say is we want teo produce oh, are we want to fund the production of a documentary on penguins in argentina and there’s only one, you know, so maker that’s actually doing that and they’ve made that, you know, typical sponsorship contract with the physical sponsor and what the models see. Agreement is a pre approved grant relationship. So basically their physical foncier’s saying, yes, we’ve already vetted this project. The artists on, and we know that they’re doing the research and they’re competent, and we trust them to be able to use our grant money properly. So if we raise the money, teo fund this project, we’re going to re grant it to this person, and this person is going to deliver the project for us, and then we’re going to make sure that it gets published. Distribution is simply because that’s, what a person on league it is, people, that’s, the typical marvel. Okay, so there’s that. There’s. More vetting involved. Do i have that right? Yes, going to be quite a bit of betting in in advance, just to make sure that this person isn’t just pay themselves, you know, for their their own living and, you know, housing expenses, but not do anything charitable with the money or build that they sell to a private collector. So it never gets into the public realm. And it’s just a way for that person to make extra income on their parents, donated the money and took a tax deduction for that that was completely improper and unlawful. So the sponsors got to make sure the vet that, if we’re going to enter into this relationship, are our role is a grantmaker, just like a private foundation might, you know, have a role to vet all of their grantees. But when you’re not going to give a grant to another public charity, you know, the responsibilities and the vending has got to be a little bit stronger, because you have to make sure that your money that you’re giving your charitable monies, that you’re giving us a fiscal sponsor, are only going to be used for charitable purposes. And they’re not going to be a fuse for private benefit. Jean do we know why model b got skipped over? Why did we get screwed? Well, pick first shot at a b b is around and this probably as the third most common of the fiscal sponsorship forms and it’s a little bit of model aimed he combined in that the project is owned by the physical sponsors, but rather than as in model a, where all the employees, volunteers and the contractors all are employed or hired or contracted by the physical sponsor. The entire project is going to be contract id out a single independent contractor in the model b, so you own the project because you want to control the project result, but you hired an independent contractor who would probably be the project leaders that brought the project to you in the first place, and they’re not going to be your employees, but they’re going to be independent contractors to it, and they’re going to supply all the services that our program services the cynical sponsor will still do most of the back office stuff. So is it too late there? Insurance would cover it, but they would hyre out an independent contractor. Can we have movable? Can’t we move? See up to be and be down to see since since sees more popular than be or is it xero late for that? So what? Who created this created this? I don’t know what greg’s mom and creature grantmaking. Dr gramm. We’re popular bin b but b if you look at it in terms of control and responsibility of the fiscal sponsor a is the most responsibility for the physical sponsor is the next most and he’s the least i see. All right, so we were working down a xander was saying earlier. It’s the relation what distinguishes these six is the relationship and we’re working. We’re working toward less less responsibility for the sponsor. Is that a through f? Do i have that right? At least eight, just like different variations. All right, all right. We need to get greg on here. Explain his nomenclature. But thes e the one who created this morass. Okay, we have it. We have a bit of a naming problem. Yeah, if you haven’t noticed. Yeah. Model, eh? My late model. Be okay. Uh, andrew, tell us a model. See story. Sure. So remember to talk loudly. I okay, i’m trying to tell me if i’m not because i’m trying to tell me what i need to talk even more loudly. Ok? Ok. You said okay, go ahead. I worked with. Okay, great. So i worked with an organization that association for non-profit news organizations on dh part of what they do is offer physical sponsorship metoo start up non-profit news entities. So i think, like the local ah, websites that have serve lots and all of the country with all the investigative reporters i’ve gotten laid off from newsrooms they’ve all got out started their own websites to cover local governments and things like that, and they offer a fiscal sponsorship in mile see to those entities to help them get started because and sometimes to stay for a very long time, because the gandhi’s are folks who are starting these entities that aren’t looking to you manage, you know, a non-profits they’re not looking to worry about out getting there there five, one, two, three status and and all of that on this organization that’s those folks, obviously they know who they are. They’re watching them very closely and know they’re acting as the five twenty three for all of those organizations. Okay, and that is that relationship continuing? Yeah, they have a have a great program. They have. Ah, i don’t know, probably upwards of twenty or so. And, you know, like i said, sometimes makes sense for that’s, awful, sponsored project and either model to separate out on their own. And sometimes it makes sense for them to stay, because, you know, if you had a certain level of size and fund-raising staff, bond, all that kind of stuff, uh, it’s, just a really good deal for you to be sponsors. And so, you know, especially in this day and age where a lot of funders are concerned about overhead and have lots of questions about overhead. I always tell people you’ll never have lower overheads in which her under physical sponsorship. We’re going to go out for our last break when we come back. Of course, live listeners love that. We’ve got to do that, and we’ll explore a little more than due diligence. Yes, and, you know potential risks. In our last seven minutes or so, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Xero stoploss live, listener love and shout outs are going to tampa, florida. Woodbridge, new jersey, anaheim, california. Garwood, new jersey i don’t know i was from garfield, but no, this is guard would not to slight not to slight you. Garwood lifeless naralo love love to the live listeners germany. We’ve got a couple in germany, guten tag and also sao paulo, brazil i hate when americans call it san paolo don’t do that! It’s, sao, sao paulo, brazil, obrigado and let’s do a little facebook live love tio packed jackie, who i know is jacked up every sea. Mike zeller, george harris, rusty kansteiner, rusty hello, been a long time. Hello, jack piela zoho been a long time. Good to see you and trudy getting steam. Hello, facebook, live! You could join us, facebook live at twenty martignetti non-profit radio page and, of course, on the heels of all that has to come. The podcast pleasantries toe are over twelve thousand podcast listeners thank you whenever you’re listening, vinge listening, maybe four episodes in a row. Thank you so much, so glad you’re with us. So glad you get value from the podcast and our affiliate affections to the many listeners at our am and fm stations throughout the country i’m grateful to you for tuning in on the on your analog device. Of course, maybe you’re streaming your nephew stream your your radio station. So not necessarily. However you’re listening to your station so glad you’re with us and i thank your station for carrying non-profit radio, expanding the network, expanding the family it’s a family, not a network network. Sounds like a health care organization. It’s a family um andrew who’s, that who’s that sick rings that you andrew genes genes used during this so it’s probably it’s probably andrew’s genes used to hearing all this. I was ranting, you see, listen, specially love jean um okay, let’s, talk a little about some due diligence. Jean i gave you a shot earlier. Let’s andrew let’s, talk to you now about let’s. Hear from you sorry up my voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old on some or the due diligence that is sponsoring organization needs to do, you know, detail. We like actionable details for our listeners lorts sure, well, i think. You know, especially if you’re either either model, either either model, right, looking, too, to take on a sponsored project. You know it. This is a relationship. This is a marriage, essentially, that you’re getting into. So if you start with that apprentice, you think about, you know, in a business sense, all of the things that you want to make sure you know about the folks that you’re, you know, metaphorically getting into bed with. So you obviously want to know about their experience. You want to know about their support networks, whether two people raise money or, you know, bring on more people to help their project evolved. You want to know, you know, if they’ve had any, obviously, any criminal activity or anything like that, for sure, it also you want to find out about their plan. So, do they have a business plan or aa program plan? Do they have a fund-raising fran? Do they? You know, is there any money committed at this point already, like you guys mentioned before, that’s sort of ready to go if they’re able to get this that status, you know, those are the kinds of things that you really wantto dig into and understand, and that, you know a good official sponsor will have a pretty well defined application process that, you know, may have multiple rounds of interviews with the, you know, the staff of the mon for the board of the sponsor. In some cases, you know, like inside you, you do want ideally the board to make this decision or help you make this decision to take on these projects or even to start a sponsorship program because they are the end of the day, the one who’s, you know, they’re on the line at the end of the day, their fiduciary responsible for for the whole thing. So, you know, it should be you should at least have some input into that. Where do you see the responsibility for this do dilgence residing? Who does it? Treyz who i think who on the organization is doing it. So go ahead, and because usually the staff, you know, whoever it will be involved in working with the project from the path of the sponsor, would take the lead, maybe with some help from from some key boardmember okay, jean, did you have something more about through? Dilgence yeah, i just wanted wanted to add that it really is critical that the physical sponsor understand, particularly in the model see situation that there there one’s fund-raising forth the project, even though the project is housed in a different legal entity and that they’re going to make grants to they’re responsible for all the monies and all the responsibilities associated with the donors or the foundations, including e-giving a grant reports back to the foundations, and if it’s government funded the audit requirements that go along with that and that’s where you get the hefty, like the fifteen percent physical sponsorship administrative fees that andrew was talking about, government audits are incredibly difficult to do and expensive but fickle sponsor has got to be prepared to do all of that. They’ve got to make sure they’ve got adequate strapping to be ableto handle all of these and treat all of these is restricted funds and have all of the infrastructure, all the right policies over the right agreements, all of the right qualifications to do business if they’re in different states and registrations, you know, tony, you’ve got to be prepared to do all of that, and that made depend upon each project that they get, they may be incurring additional responsibilities that they’re going to think about on dh what if they what if they don’t do it right? Jean? What? What are what are some of the potential penalties were the worst thing that that happens is of course, the project gets into huge trouble, and they, you know, they engage in some sort of political activities and all of us and you jeopardize your own five twenty three status or a child has been hurt because of the negligence that they’ve got that have exhibited, and you don’t have enough adequate separation in the model c or it’s, a model a and its internal project of your physical sponsors. So you’re completely responsible for the liability, and you may find that you don’t have enough insurance because he went, anticipating those things and the bad if you weren’t really prepared for it. So those air the two worst case scenario. Ah, andrew. It sounds like you really should have some outside help and expertise. If you’re if you’re going to take this on. Well, i would i would recommend it. I mean, i think you especially if you’re doing it for the first time. So are a lot of people come to me or i’m sure jean when they’ve already got a couple of projects underneath, um, i say a lot of people get into this accidentally or at least unintentionally and, you know, like we said, they’re six weeks to do it right there’s a lot of ways to do it wrong on in the operation side of things and you know it, khun khun very quickly go from a really good thing, tio not so good thing in your whole team is now focusing all their attention on these projects and it sort of eating up all of their bandwidth on dso, you know, having some of those processes procedures in place on getting all those things set up is really important again, going back to the due diligence, the written contracts, i guess both of you have seen cases where it’s just been a handshake mary-jo absolutely, yeah, happened a lot. And then when when there’s a termination that happens, there’s a conflict about what? What should be done into who’s, you know, the funds belong to a lot of complexities when they don’t do it right at the start. Dahna andrew was something wanted ad about the downside of a handshake agreement. It’s well, i would i would just say that whether or not there’s a handshake or even a contract, you know, we’ve talked a lot about model a model see, and they are very specifically laid out, but what do you see out in the wild if there’s really a spectrum of how they operate? And some of them i’m not always done to the letter of the law and monsters don’t realize it, and, you know, some of the very long to get by obviously would recommend doing that if you don’t know what you’re doing, but it was really, you know, there’s a lot of variability out there, so if you are thinking of becoming a sponsor or you are a sponsor and you’re not sure you definitely want to talk to somebody who knows what they’re doing, gene, there is no legal definition to these right? That there’s no one legal, definitely fiscal sponsorship isn’t defined in any code or regulations, so cynical sponsorship. Is just referring to these relationship that are ultimately defined by the contract and that’s why you needed a written contract, because we need to know what relationship you actually have and the biggest, biggest thing, and where everything often goes wrong is misunderstanding that an outside legal entity other than the physical concert could not fund-raising for the project, even those of the individuals associated with it are fund-raising for the project, they are on ly doing so as agents of the physical sponsor. So the physical sponsor ultimately has control over all of the funds it is raising. And if it’s going to re grantham out, it’s going to re grantham out under its own legal discretion and subject to what they call all variant of powers in accounting language, basically saying that ultimately, the physical sponsors board has full control over them of those assets, subject to the purpose restrictions or timing restrictions that might be involved with the donations of the craft. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there because i think it’s ah, i think it’s appropriate to leave it on. Ah, sort of a note of caution. This certainly can do wonders for your charitable. Mission and your work, but i feel like what i’m sensing from from the two of you is you know, you got to do this right? So i’m going to sort of leave it on that cautious still a little bit of a finger wag that admonition tone that you probably need some expertise and you’ve got to make sure you do this correctly. Is that okay, gentlemen, anybody disagree with that? How can you? Okay, not at all. Okay, so i want to thank you very much. Andrew shulman. You’ll find him at shulman consulting dot com and at a m shulman and jean takagi editing the very popular non-profit law block dot com and he’s at g tak gt. Okay, gentlemen, thank you very, very much. Thanks, tony. Thanks, anders. Thank you so much. Have a good one. Pleasure. Thank you. Again. Next week, video storytelling and maria semple returns with deep pockets. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it. I’m tony martignetti dot com. I love our sponsors pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com regular cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com kaplow’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address. Card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 25, 2017: Raising Risk & Avoid Social Weariness (ASW)

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Maya Winkelstein & John Hicks: Raising Risk

Risk pervades every grant you get. Lots of things can go wrong. Is it appropriate to discuss potential problems with your funders? Does that advantage your grant competitors? We’ll flesh it all out with Maya Winkelstein of the Open Road Alliance and John Hicks from DLBHicks.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Avoid Social Weariness (ASW)

Amy Sample Ward

With our own ASW, Amy Sample Ward. The social networks are 24/7 and can overwhelm you. But there are ways to make them work for you. Amy knows how to make your social manageable and strategic. She’s our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).

 

 

 


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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with media asta no, pericarditis, if you broke my heart with the idea that you missed today’s show raising risk risk pervades every grant you get, lots of things can go wrong. Is it appropriate to discuss potential problems with your funders? Does that advantage your grant competitors? We’ll flush it all out with maya winkelstein of the open road alliance and john hooke hicks, john hicks from de lb hicks and avoid social weariness et s w with our own s wmd sample ward the social networks twenty four seven and can overwhelm you, but there are ways to make them work for you. Amy knows how to make your social manageable and strategic she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten on tony’s take two show our sponsors love responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuing dot com, and by we’d be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com. We just corrected that problem. Hey, maya winkelstein is on the line. She is executive director of open road alliance, finding new ways to deploy capital to achieve maximum social returns. She had been there consultant. And they loved her so much. They put her in charge. So i guess there must not have been any non solicitation clause in that contract. We’ll flush that out. They’re open road, alliance, dot or ge and at open road tweet. Welcome, maya. Heidtke durney. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. My pleasure. We have john hicks on the line yet. Okay, we don’t have john hicks yet, so sam’s going to give him a call, but that’s. Okay? Because i want to start with you anyway, maya, um, we want to talk about risk to talk about risk and are funding relationships, but, uh, yeah, i know why. Well, uh, you see the opening of the show riskiest everywhere it has stopped anyone on the street and said, hey, the world is unpredictable vehicle, you’re disagree. Everybody agrees. Andi makes sense that in the nonprofit sector, where by definition we’re working with the most vulnerable populations and look vulnerable and challenging. Geography and problems that unpredictability is just a fact of life, but this reality often doesn’t translate into the way that grantmaking works the way that project planning and particularly the going on grantee relationship functions. Andi, we think that change, okay, if i know you have some stats about how ah unlikely it is that a grantee will be asked to assess the challenges that are facing them in the in the program or project that they’re that they’re seeking money for on dh like, okay, you’re welcome, you’re welcome to work those in and but but then, but if if if we’re not being asked to raise this, this issue of risk, don’t we end up disadvantaging ourselves because our competitors in the grantspace may not do the same thing? Absolutely right now we’d like to say that the word risk is a foreign letter word, and you’re on, and i think about the situation as an emperor has no clothes. The truth is, we did do a survey in twenty fifteen, where we interviewed two hundred foundations two hundred non-profits and asked him about it what’s really interesting in that survey is that the foundations acknowledged that risk percent as much hutchisson non-profits it princessa agreed on the number, and the number is one inside the one in five projects or wanted five grand’s legend to encounter some type of roadblock or obstacle that’s going to need additional funding in order to achieve impact on time and in cold. Okay, that zoho both sides acknowledges so to, as you said before, seventy six percent of thunders don’t ask any point in the application what goes wrong and went under so now guarantees don’t tell. So we do have this this dilemma and the question about competitive advantage, i think there’s a really important one because there is a lot of fear among non-profits you know, why would i reveal my weaknesses if you know somebody else competing for the grand isn’t but the truth is, uh, when you don’t talk about brightstep friends, we’re not brave and say, hey, you know, there’s, other things that could go wrong, you really just shooting yourself in the foot because things are so go going to go to go wrong one way or the other, and the difference here is simply for patient setting. Well, we don’t expect a set. Expectations appropriately, they’re thunders then it’s not surprising that they’re blind sided or react negatively when you come up. All right, all right. Um, i saw the so we believe i’m not surprised to hear one in five twenty percent of funded projects will have trouble. I’m in trouble is inherent in anything we do, whether it’s commercial or non-profit i’m just still i’m trying todo playing devil’s advocate i’m trying to think of think like a ceo or a grant writer who is wants to be transparent and set expectations, okay, but my board or my ceo from the grant writer says, look, i mean, the competitors are just not going to do this. We’re making ourselves look like we’re inferior because we’re going to raise challenges that the other people competing for this exact money are not going to raise, and they’re going to look superior and we’re going to look poor, right? And where one where i encourage non-profits to play teo freedom, your donor’s instincts as an investor that’s open lately what all donors are, you know, when we send money out into the world, it’s not baking powder self-funding back and sleep at night, we’re in an era of philanthropy where we want to see change, um, we really do treat our philanthropic dollars as investments for looking for maximum return on investment on if you think about it in the private sector, you know, who am i going to pick the company that tells me that everything’s perfect and they’re never gonna have any problems or the management team that said, hey, look, you know, we’ve looked at all of the issues, these air, some things that could go around, but this is how we’re managing it. Uh, you’ve been really treat with management as a sign of confidence in your management team position it as, uh, a competitive advantage to your advantage that you’re thinking about these things and your competitors are if somebody tries to tell me that something one hundred percent guarantee that for me is a much for red flag and the honesty and transparency of saying, hey, what could go wrong? But i’ve got a plan in place, okay? Okay. That’s ah, that’s. Excellent. That would be persuasive to me. Position as as an advantage. Somebody who tells you that there’s no risk is not doing a complete analysis. You know, they’re they’re superficial and were detailed, etcetera, depending how far you want to go in trash trash in your competition. Okay, that is a great intro, right? We’re goingto going go out early for our first break. When we come back, we’ll bring in john hicks, we got him on the line now, and, uh, we’ll get into where does this start? I mean, is this a chicken and egg thing? I mean, to me, it seems like funders have the greater responsibility. They’re the ones with the applications, but we’ll talk about that on dh, more about, you know this, don’t ask, don’t tell about risk that that were in stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent they were on facebook live, so i want to give shouts shout outs to carry my croghan good to see you, carrie it’s been awhile, it’s been quite so quite awhile. Thanks for being with me, man and jeff rose and also and there are others there are multiple others, but i can’t quite see them all right now, but we’ll get to them more facebook live shoutouts, let’s bring in john hicks john hicks is principal of de lb hicks consulting deal b is for dylan’s light bulb and if you don’t know that story, it’s at deal be hicks dot com he’s on the faculty of columbia university’s master’s program in non-profit management and a contributing author to the books after the grant and the non-profit handbook fund-raising he’s at de lb hicks john hicks welcome back. Glad to be back. Thank you. You’re you’re on vacation in north carolina, are you? Is that right? Yeah. Absolutely beautiful day down here in the outer banks. Well, thank you for joining us on vacation, john. Thank you so much. Thanks for doing that. Uh, jon, do you heard the intro, i hope. Where yuan for that? I was okay. What do you think of this idea of raising risk? Other people might not be well, i think it’s incredibly important it’s something we talk about a lot in our grants glass at columbia university about mitigating risk for the donor and mitigating risk for the non-profits and i was one of very quickly right off the bat compliment maya and her team on raising this topic for grantmaker but i think it’s also everything that i’ve seen has been developed by by the team. I would love to share my plan to share this with my client because i think non-profits have to be looking at risk management in terms of developing long term, sustaining positive relationships with donors, but also, you know, you have to do a reading, undertake a really solid reality check when you’re starting a new program, you know how how much can you realistically do? How much can you realistically deliver? Um, so it’s an important topic and, you know, it’s, just so great to see this being, you know, brought out in the way that it’s it’s been taken on my uh, where do you feel the responsibility lies for starting what you want to see happen a lot more often than it does in, like thirteen percent of grand applications or something dependents look like depending whether you asked the funders or the or the grantees, you’ll get different numbers as to how often it’s it’s raised, but in both cases it’s in the vast minority of applications, do you feel like it’s the funders? Responsibility? Because they’re the ones asking the questions they’re the ones with the with the applications so open it, lee risk itself is a shared responsibility. I mean, these often heard the conversation, and rightly so that non-profit can’t do their work for that thunders and thunder achieve their objective non-profits so we really are equal partners in in sharing and the successive failures and rick, every project that we partner on, but the reality is that there’s also a power dynamic within that partnership, and that power dynamics is very clear and it’s such a the thunders so as much as i do think there is a place and is a safe for non-profits to stand up to breathe ray’s, tow, have the conversation. To raise the issue uh, really, if we’re going to see widespread change, it’s going to have to come from the underside and it’s gonna have to really be be demanded as thunders. And i like to sort of think about it as risk monitoring an evaluation was pan of fifty years ago, right? It wasn’t until even though non-profits knew that they could do better at measurements were trying to do better measurement to billy and sam impact of their products. You know, it’s not told donors have a really big lever when they asked for it. And when they funded that’s, when things really start to move and change, all right, let’s, let’s drill down into some of the how tio, how to do this my way if i’m of i’m a potential grantee and there’s no mention of challenges, risks, obstacles in an application for for granted i’m applying for how do you like? How do you encourage organizations toe raise the issue? Do they wait till there filling out the application? Do they started in the preliminary phone calls that we hope that they’re having before they submit an application? How do you like to see? This one of the things we found on the underside in particular is not that thunder don’t want to know about bricks or don’t want to ask about it’s just that it’s not part of the grantmaking mainstream grantmaking culture, and so it doesn’t even occur to them, and one of the things that is also absent on the underside is very serious for thinking about their own risk tolerance and being able to define that. So one way to ease into the conversation without going straight to hey, you want to me to give you a risk assessment is to ask the thunder about their risk tolerance. Askin, you know hey, what is your profile? What are the types of risks that you like to see potential grantspace taking? And what are some of the risks that you tend to lead to a void in your grantmaking portfolio? Not only is that dahna night entree to the conversation, but it will also give you as the applicant, some really interesting on dh hopefully helpful information around here. What will be a better fit for that particular thunder? All right, john, how do you feel about when when it’s appropriate? To to start asking these questions may be asking the funders risk tolerance, what’s your ideas on how to raise this. I know what my just said about you is that it’s very early on in the conversation? I mean, this is why, you know, a best practices, particularly taking on a ah large initiative, a new initiative you’re looking at standing something significantly, i i’m a big believer in coveting the client or the organization through having on initial conversation with grantmaker i think that’s where you you asked that question about risk colorants, and then but at the same time, i think the charity has i have a responsibility to have considered that question and be able to speak to handle day are assessing risk and how they have factored of risk-alternatives grain up. So i felt that, you know, a grantmaker handup that obligation to the grantmaker and john, can we quantify these things? I mean, ultimately we’re asking the funder for money. Can we quantify the likelihood of risk percentage of likelihood vs versus potential cost? Can we quantify this? I think it really depends on the program. Tony means sometimes if you’re if you’re looking at replicating something that’s already been found there might be information helps you to do that in a lot of cases that i come across, it may be that thie organization is trying something that’s very new and it’s very i mean, it could be a something new within a community, something new with them, a community of practice, and it may be hard to put numbers around that, and i think this is where, again, engaging the grantmaker and a conversation toe tried to bring out the questions that they’re going to have because, you know, ultimately you’re talking to a grantmaker you’re talking to probably a representative, who is? Mom has a responsibility to a foundation board and, you know, you want to get a sense of where is the board? We’re that foundation board, in terms of, you know, going back to what my dad says, what is their wrist and that mike guy, the metrics and the numbers and that helps you to create and construct a grant proposal that would speak to you know, that you could or you might be able to quantify risk. Let me give you a couple of my hold on. One sec, i just gotta do a lot more facebook live shot out sorry if you want to join us on facebook live, go to the tony martignetti non-profit radio page and joining us most recently craig’s swenson onda cara gammel, cara charles hello hello karen, what a pleasure. Thank you. Sorry, maya. What do you want to get my? What do you want to say about quantifying this for funders? Yeah, i’m really glad you brought that up, it’s something that we’ve actually been looking at open road for the past couple of years and unfortunately compared to certainly the for-profit sector, we just don’t have numbers yet, and this is in part due to some of the other clans patients, particularly when it comes to pricing in cause so that our sector is facing. So we’ve actually been having conversations and working with partners that would stand and non-profit finance son, people who are looking at things like overhead on dh, the survey shin cycle and accurately pricing the true cost of a process. We haven’t even figured that out yet, so this figuring out the next step beyond what is the true cost of a perfect projects. To say ok, and now, based on some sort of actuarial tables or other data that we could drop from here is the risk premium, if you will. I do think our sector is going to get there, but it’s going to be many more years and are you you you’re helping this conversation along the way? This research along, i should say, not just conversation, wei are yeah, we are helping to search along. In fact, one of the things that were excited about is within our portfolio. Now that he’s been around for five years, we’ve got over a hundred krauz funded, which also means we now over have a whole one hundred and miracle data points of what actually does go wrong in our sector. Andi, we’re going to be publishing reports later this year or early next year that begins to offer actually the first data that empirical david, what goes wrong? For what type of project, how often and under what circumstances? But failure has always been and can gentle and related challenge to this question of risk. You know, i say failure is a risk realized so and we all know how difficult it is to talk about failure in our sector so it’s very hard to get some of this data because people don’t want to admit failure. There’s certainly not recording failure. Can you open up an annual report? You see all of the good numbers, right? All of the return numbers, nobody, uh, really truck goes around. Failure is risk allies. Dh jonah, you hear snickering whereas my talks about the annual report, you want to answer them? I mean, no, i’m not laughing at you with everything that, you know, i think that it’s like when i’m sitting here with someone who probably, you know, works with charities on reports, and i’m constantly, you know, playing to my clients, that i think when we come back, we’re behold them to come back to a grantmaker and to honestly say when something doesn’t work, what do we understand about the failure? Why did it fail? How are we going to take that failure and learn something? Promise? I agree. I think that you know that sometimes there’s uh uh, there’s. A lapse in communication where the great you know that grant he feels like, okay, i just have to go back. And talk about all the really good things that happened and you’re right on the point of annual reports, there’s a lot of annual reports that just simply, you know, put a fairly burnished picture out there of the work that seemed done when reality not everything works and the more you can understand from it’s better you’re going to bay so i totally agree with, you know, with the point she’s making yes, producing this show, john, i’ve heard rumors to that effect. Not everything works. You have something you will. And when i said you were snickering, i didn’t mean you were snickering derisively maybe i should said you were chuckling or you were bemused. As as my was talking, i didn’t mean to suggest that you were you were being negative. About what? About what? She was saying that at all? No, not at all. You have a lot of you have a lot of good tools that open road, alliance, dot or ge on dh. One of them is you talk about a risk profile statement. What is that? Yes. Let’s. Go back to the convent and made earlier around. What is your tolerance? Andi? This is a tool that we developed with thunders and nine, but i think it is equally applicable and adaptable for non-profits out as well. One of the things that we found in our work and research is that it’s very hard to take steps to manage risk, to try to minimize it or avoid it. If you haven’t gone through the preliminary step of figuring out what you’re willing to deal with or not right, what is your current service profile statement is basically the idea that you go through a a very deliberate and intentional discussion with your your staff for your board, your trustees, depending on what type of organization you are and you really deliberately come up with what you’re risking, tolerance is and think about it along different not so your risk tolerance when it comes to taking reputational risk might be very low, but you’re colorants for innovation might be very high risk is not a single single variable, either. On the idea of this profile statements and it’s sort of the division would be wow, imagine if every thunder you could go to their website and you could look at their risk profile statement. And you could see in writing where they’re willing to take risks where they’re not willing to take risks, you know that? And it’s non-profit we’re able to look at their programs and strategies in the same light you the matchmaking, if you will, between non-profits grantees, not only is there potential for that becomes easier, but if you don’t know what risks you’re willing thank you, it’s very hard, then to identify and managed. So if you are looking to improve your management in general, you would’ve also have to do that. First step is figuring out what risks you even talking about and which ones are going to be worth it to try and save it for duitz and we need to, i guess, then set aside money teo plan for these could negative contingencies, absolutely, and that gets into the risk management side of it is sort of the objects inside of fifty will he other think cubine mind is that when we’re talking about a profiler with cholera in ultimately that’s a subjective measures, you know, whether or not i prefer to curtis, test with stock or treasury bonds is a very subjective choice on dh. That’s a choice that thunder have every single day do they want to invest in the tried and true after school program? Where do they want to invest in the innovative new inner cities i have model and whether or not which one they pick is as much about the impact that piece of the cross product can provide as much of the currents of the thunder, but that’s ultimately a subjective measure, but once you have that subjective measure now, you can do this management, and you can look at the object in sight of the fact that no matter how little tolerance for averse service you are subjectively it’s filled and exits, and you’re going to need to manage it and you can manage it through budgetary actions. You can manage it with internal policies of procedure e-giving manage it with communications on a whole bunch of other tools have been become much more easy to implement and ready it at your weinger john hicks, anything you want to head there? No, i think an ideal world and if we do live in an ideal world where there’s a lot of grantmaker who are listening to this program. Or are taking the time to go and get their hands on the tool kit, and they’re going, they’re going to use that five again, you know, just applauding the work that maya and her team have done on the topic and i hope, it’s useful to the grantmaking communities well, our our listeners are the non-profits over twelve thousand small mid size non-profit so what? We’re we’re i know meyer’s working on both sides because this is a shared responsibility, but so what we’re doing is encouraging non-profits to raise it with their they’re funders on dh that’s, why i want to drill down earlier and about how do you the asked both of you? How do you raise the question? Because where, you know, we’re hitting the non-profits and now the newly competitive because of maya’s my strategy and thinking on this, the newly competitive non-profits because they’re there now at a competitive advantage that they weren’t roughly twenty eight minutes ago. So i feel bad i feel bad for your competitors, not listening. You should, but you shouldn’t. But i do because i wish they were listening, which we have more but wait, we don’t have an audience to brag about of course we do, but i feel bad for the feel bad for the ones they’re not listening. My, i’m going to give you the last word. We just got about thirty seconds ago. Once you wrap up for us. Sure. Well, i guess that’s the last thing i would say, you know, keeping that non-profit audience and nine is duitz sebi breaks, you know, and stand up. There are a lot of a lot of things that you think you internally and externally with their fenders, put a risk front and center center onda also in terms of your own internal processes, you sustenance on your own. Anyway, even if you don’t know, never hear about it. Yes, what? You’ve just made your program stronger. You’re gonna have more impact and be more successful, which in turn is gonna attract more donors regardless. So i do think there’s a lot that non-profits could bring to the table here on but the end of the day without non-profit hundreds of just sitting on piles of money doing nothing. So i think it really, really is a great role that complaint my is executive director of open road alliance, open road, alliance dot or ge and at open road tweet john is principal of de lb hicks at de lb hicks dot com and also at deal be hicks. Maya. John, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your pleasure. Got a void? Social weariness et s w with our own s w amy sample ward coming up first pursuant acquisition campaigns, they’ve got a free webinar, so much of the content is free it’s almost it’s redundant to safely webinar when you’re talking about pursuing but just in case you’re a first time listener free weapon are coming up to help you acquire new donors. It’s on august thirty first what inspires that first gift for a donor? They’ll talk about it. We’ll have lots of examples and and as we do here, actionable strategies just like non-profit radio, if you can’t make it live on august thirty first at noon eastern, then watch the archive listen live or archive, just like non-profit radio and the place to sign up. Is that the new landing page that pursuing has for non-profit radio listeners, that is tony dot m a slash pursuing with a capital p go there, sign up for the, uh, acquisition campaigns webinar and if you can’t make it live, you’ll get emails about you get an email telling you when the archive is available, so it doesn’t matter where you could make it alive or not. Just go, tony dahna i’m a slash pursuant we’ll be spelling, you know that super cool spelling bee fundraisers, millennial fund-raising and fund raising because they do spelling bees that include live music and dancing and stand up comedy, not your seventh grade spelling bee. At least not my seventh grade spelling bee from like, what would that have been? Nineteen, seventy one or something? Or nineteen, seventy five? Whatever. I was not like that. Throw that out. Check him out. The video that will show you all this happening at one of their many events is that we be e spelling dot com. Then just talk to the ceo. His name alex alex career. You’ve heard me talk about him. Get him, alex at we b e spelling dot com or you could pick up the phone. The numbers on the website. Check out the video. We b e spelling dot com have a millennial spelling bee fundraiser for your organization, low risk that’s probably don’t have to raise the risk issue for a spelling bee. I would think, what could it possibly be besides embarrassment now, time for tony steak, too. Listen, i really need you to be supporting our sponsors pursuant, we dispelling two new ones coming, the two new ones coming next week. Yes. Apple owes software is starting next week and also wagner, cps so we’re going for sponsors and peace organizations come to me. I’m very grateful for that because they know we’ve got a very consistent show every single week for seven years and over twelve thousand listeners, and i need you to step it up and show your love to our sponsors. So if you’re looking for millennial fund-raising talk to, we’d be spelling, and if you are interested in lots of free content bond fund-raising management then talk to pursue it, check them out, go to that landing page and likewise will be hearing me talk about wagner, cpas and apple owes software we need to show the love to the sponsors. Please keep respond to keep your sponsors. Our sponsors keep our sponsors in mind, thanks so much, and that is tony stick, too. And now time for a s w r own amy sample ward she’s, a social media contributor, and she’s, the ceo of inten, the non-profit technology network. Her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about multi-channel online engagement she’s that amy sample, ward dot or ge and at amy r s board. Welcome back in the sample. Ward. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Did you see? I put i’m sure you noticed that she had put your initials in the segment title. Now, i actually thought maybe this meant there was a lot more pressure now that any topic in the future has to be able to fall into a nasco w acronym. No, i don’t. I don’t feel like that now. Besides, i’m the one who put there. I would be putting the pressure on myself because i there. Yes. You don’t hear me. Hello? Hear me? I cannot hear you. I’m not sure if you can hear me. Okay? Okay. Why don’t you call back and call back so i can hear you now? Okay. Okay. Now i was saying that there is no pressure because first of all, i did not ask you to come up with a title that met your initials. I did that myself, so you can blame me for that. And no, not not a precedent setting measure. No, you don’t have to worry. And we just lose amy. We did just back now. Now you are back. Okay. Did you hear? Everything i just said, i’ve been in the system the whole time listening to the whole show. And then when it’s my turn to talk wait cut you off? Yes. Did you just hear my whole diatribe? No, i didn’t hear you. Well, alright, basically. Well, i thought maybe i sum you buy my comment. Oh, come on. You know better than that eyes no silence on non-profit radio that never that would never happen. Okay, well, you’ll have to go listen back. But the short answer is no it’s, not a precedent. Don’t worry, grayce so what? We are talking about setting boundaries around your social. Is this getting to be now? Is this going to be an issue for you and your community? Definitely been a really kind of top of mind. Intentional topic here at and ten, i think i think last fall leading up to the election, regardless of any candidate that any single person was voting for. It was just such an intense election and the, you know, everyone turning to social media all throughout the campaign turned to social media that i think by the time the election happened, everyone was just really at this kind of emotional breaking point around how much content there wass how often updates were coming through and that’s both content from, you know, out less media outlets, newspapers, etcetera, but also just content from each of us write everybody sharing things and adding commentary and just reflecting on things that i think people have you no for almost a year now felt like i have to find a way to take a break, or i may be going to lose it, you know, i’m just reading too much, and i feel like if i’m not, you know, i’ve left my left my desk, but now i better open up twitter on my phone because i want to make sure i’m staying on top of this, that people are getting to a place that i think is really overwhelming. I understand, yeah, there’s so many more people paying so much more attention to the networks and the news. I mean, this is the social networks on dh exactly on i would never advocate against that way. I mean, i’m excited that we have a country that feels like people are paying attention, i think, for non-profits that this is a huge moment for us because it means that when we send out on a call to action or an appeal, we can make less of a point about what it is that’s going on because people are are now informed and waiting for that action and indifferent way, right? So on one hand, as organizations it’s a really great time because people are informed and are paying attention, but as individuals and individual staff, i think if we don’t set some boundaries around how much content we’re trying to absorb every day, we will just burn out. Look how good she is bringing it right back to the listeners wait brilliant were brilliant contributors on this show, the host is lackluster, but the contributors are outstanding example exemplary, alright, so yes, so as individuals and maybe even as organizations to i mean, if we’re a small organization, we don’t we don’t have a devoted social media director manager, this applies on the organization level to so what ideas you got? Well, i think at the very basic, when we’re talking about just boundaries in general, something that i have been practicing and that a number of other staff here it and ten have also been practicing is to kind of use different devices as a way to create boundaries. So for example, i don’t have facebook as an app on my phone, and that means that i’m only going to go expose myself to the world of facebook if i’m sitting at a computer and i can open up a browser right? That i’m not just like on my phone, letting myself be kind of mindlessly sucked into that news feed, so separating which which channels which applications you’re going to look at on different devices means oh, well, you know, maybe in the evenings you liketo have a tablet because that’s, where you read, you read a magazine or you have a kindle or something, making sure that you minimize how many other apsara on that device will help you create some boundaries so that’s excellent. And then in addition to that, i think it kind of goes hand in hand, but it’s picking times of day where you want to engage, so saying, you know what? During the morning when i’m getting up and i’m having my coffee and i may be with my family, i don’t wanna have to start the day already worried about what’s happening in the news, right? So, like i during these times, even though the temptation is there, i don’t check twitter until i get to work or something. So picking sometimes a day where your mind knows, okay, it’s okay to go down the rabbit hole. This is my life twenty minute twitter break when you get into the office or something, but then the rest of the time, you don’t feel like, oh gosh, i should check i should check i should check you say, no, i have that time when i know i’m going to go check it. That’s a tough one. You know, people have been saying that about email for a year for years as manager. Way of managing your inbox on ly check email, whatever two, three times a day instead of i think the is in the aft national adult average, like a hundred times a day, we look at our phone to check email something instead of doing it a hundred times. Cut it down to three that’s a that’s, a tough one. You know, last time i had beth can’t iran and i know you know, beth very well and she’s very smart. She talked about how difficult it was for her to break the habit of waking up and picking up her phone and looking at email it’s, hard it’s shorts and part of it, if you know you have that habit, let the device help you with that, right, you can set your different channels, whether that’s, social media are email or whatever toe on ly shou notifications at certain times or never shown on vacations. I think it is very healthy to make sure your phone is not constantly showing you the number of unready males, because that is just like a stressful little picker, right? So, you know, howto open email on your phone, you can go look at it, but you don’t need this scream at all times to be shouting at you fifty on read emails, right? So you some of the control that you have just by the settings and was identification setting their display settings to help create some space there? Yeah, that’s a great one. You know, i’m going to do that that’s a great, like that little red badge next to my helmet that red number you need that. I don’t need that in your life, right? I’m going to look at that. I’m going to check email anyway. I don’t need to know that. There’s there’s one i didn’t. I didn’t get to. I just checked back. They just check twelve. I closed the damn thing. And now there’s one how did that guy? How did that bugger sneak in there exactly. Just feel good about closing it. Yeah, you don’t need that picture and you know it’s a great one. It’s not a phone app, necessarily. But if you use gmail, i know a lot of folks do. If you use gmail there’s a free ad on called bloomerang and if you in add that into your gmail in your browser, it can mute that incoming email like you were just talking about for you. So it’s not a matter of temptation of saying, gosh, i can’t even open my email because i’m always forced to look at it two or three times a day. You can have it open. You could be sending emails. You can read emails that air there, but it will not show you the incoming. E mails wow, during these times where you say i want a mute email for the next hour so that you’re not tempted to dive into all those new emails while you’re trying to focus on something else. That’s outstanding what’s that called it’s called bloomerang bloomerang and it only works with what did you say? Gmail workflows gmail? Okay, well, i don’t know if it works on other things, okay? I know that it does work with female. I’ve heard i’ve heard of female, so okay bloomerang cool, you’ve great ideas, it’s amazing. What? Well, i mean, i think it’s what’s important, even if those air to specific things that you already do or you don’t care to try, they’re just example to illustrate that there are some ways that we can use technology to help us stay away from technology. There are some good tools are quick little add ons that can help you create some boundaries and some filters so that you’re not feeling overwhelmed all the time that you don’t have to do all that work, right? You don’t have to say i just need to be a better digital citizen and not care to check. Facebook, facebook wants you to check it it’s going to send you notifications every way it can and it’s trying to get you back in there so you don’t need to feel guilty for checking the notification instead. Think about where where should i go turn off those notifications? Facebook isn’t trying to tempt me back in and the emails the emails of facebook sends did you know that seventy nine people like the recent posting you’re non-profit happy hour? Oh my god! Yeah, i got to turn that off, too. All right, that’s, too? Yeah, i got one the other day that i thought i felt so desperate, it’s said. You have not updated your public, i don’t know if it was my profile or just i hadn’t posted to my own kind of, you know, posted into the news feed in fifteen week don’t you want to see it? And i was like, if i haven’t done it in fifteen, we space book makes me maybe you could just let me go, you neo-sage they’re trying to trying to get you back in. You’re not cooking on enough ads for them to suit them exactly. All right, we gotta go out far for a break. When we come back, we’ll talk about the ultimate low tech non-technical way of turning yourself off. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t g n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back and i got to say hello. More shout outs to facebook live, we’re on the tony martignetti non-profit radio page and scott williams with us. Mike hargrove, barbara freeze owner and terra kelly who’s now tower hickey, but i know you’re a star. Kelly welcome. Good to see you, facebook live! Thanks for being with us and there’s people on other pages, too, if you made beyond the talking alternative page. Thank you so much for being with us, facebook live and that leads me, of course, to live listener love the podcast audience the what am i saying? The live streaming audience. Our live love goes out to tampa, florida. Woodhaven, newjersey, ridgewood, new york. Which one you want? That’s, queens. We also have brooklyn. We have new york, new york. We’re missing staten island in the bronx. We got left to get that follow five boroughs, but live love to the three bottles that are with us. Queens, brooklyn in manhattan, andi woodbridge, new jersey. Also besides woodhaven, let’s, go abroad, seoul, south korea cells so of course, always checking in. So so, so loyal in seoul and your haserot cancer, ham, nida, germany. We can’t see your city? I’m sorry, but germany’s with us. Guten tag and rio de janeiro, brazil welcome live listener love to you also on the podcast pleasantries go out of course, to the over twelve thousand listeners on the podcast medium were multi-channel here where multi-channel multi? I know we’re multi personality maybe, but we’re multi multi. So, uh, every time i’ve been on, at least one listener has been on from seoul, i think that’s so awesome. Yeah, yeah, they are soul is very, very boyle. Yeah, i love it. So the podcast were the podcast audience. You’re pulling me back in howto live love. I’ve advanced. I’m past that now. I went to the podcast wasn’t i’m sorry you’re into other channels? Yes, or the other that’s, right, it’s, the podcast audience. The pleasantries go out to the over twelve thousand listeners, the ceos, the fundraisers, the the board members, the consultants pleasantries to you. And then, of course, the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Thank you. So glad that your station has included non-profit radio in its weekly schedule. Affections to our affiliate listeners and turkey in mexico joined us as well, back to the live love turkey, mexico sorry, we cannot see your cities, but but we know that we know you’re there. We know you’re there. All right, amy sample ward. Thank you for that indulgence, even though you interrupted, but okay, so let’s go to a very i know it is that i love having you on, you know that let’s goto a completely non tech way of setting boundaries, and that is just turn yourself off and take a take time away right from the social net from the networks. Yes, take a little social media vacation. Ah, sabbatical, if you will, you don’t have to close everything permanently. You don’t have to cancel all of your accounts, but, you know, and i think it doesn’t have to be like i’m going to take the month of september off of twitter or something. It doesn’t have to be so rigid and intense, but just saying, you know what? I wantto give a gift to myself of saying that every sunday afternoon is for me and not for the internet, it could be that simple, right doesn’t even have to say, oh, gosh, it’s twelve oh one, i’m already entered into my afternoon of no social media just saying, i i want i know that it will make me feel better. I’m going to give this to myself and then as you start to make that a regular routine, i think it’s easier to say ok like this feels good. I didn’t have to check anything all, you know, all sunday afternoon or whatever today it is, just give yourself that regular vacation very good idea and so simple to do and, you know, be good to yourself, you know? You need you need time away from the i don’t know the pace, the fast pace of the networks and the networks are only expanding and they’re only encouraging you back. Mohr and maura’s, we were just saying before the break, you’ve got to take control, you have to you have to it’s on you. They’re not gonna let you alone. You have to tell them you have to tell them to let you alone. I mean, just in that same way of, like, take control, i think it’s so easy to feel like, especially with channels like twitter where there’s it’s just happening so fast, right is just kind of streaming by that it can feel like you’re kind of this passive participants audience member right there, watching all of this content go by that again, just like you’re saying remember that you can be in control, that i think some of the smartest things to do for using it, not just setting boundaries about when you use it, but when you are using it are to use the list, make sure whatever channel you’re talking about, that you’re kind of filtering that content. It’s okay to follow a million people on twitter but start making a list of specific voices or people or certain hashtags that you you really do care about that you trust that you want to listen to first, and then instead of feeling like, okay, this is my to use that example from before. This is my kind of twenty minutes twitter break when i get to work instead of feeling like great. Now i need to read like all of twitter somehow open first that lift and just listen to those voices that you already know you care more about her that you wanted to listen to first, and then if you have extra time, open up the whole world of twitter, go back to your full kind of followers stream but don’t feel obligated to just always have to consume it all. Use some list on dh kind of filter down what you’re reading. Okay, excellent. Listen hashtags yes, and go there first, cause that’s your most important stuff to you, right? And then, of course, we could weaken turn off certain people if we need to. Yeah. Oh, my god! Unfollowed people just a kn follow-up make that stop if that if that is something that is not productive, you don’t mean maybe they’re your aunt and you feel like you can’t facebook unfriend them just mute them. Tell facebook you never, ever want to hear from that person, but they will still see that your facebook friends you know, maybe you need to maintain that in your family but again let some of those system preference options help you hide content that is on ly goingto make things worse for you. Okay, so and in that similar way i think you know something that’s been really helpful for me and my friends. Outside of work is just being intentional, you know, having conversations with folks and saying, when you realize that every person has started kind of their story or the article that they wanted to talk about by saying, oh, i read this article on facebook or i found this thing on twitter realizing that everyone’s starting place with social media, you know, we kind of had this conversation of i want i want to intentionally go find content that’s interesting to me that i made, you know, maybe i don’t tell anyone about it, i just read it while i was eating lunch. Or maybe i want to talk to my husband about it, but i don’t want to have to start every conversation with i read this article on facebook. I want to feel like i am, you know, i am not beholden to just those social channels i want to go find some other content and knowing that kind of having that realization has helped me and my friends and i have been all have a couple points during the day where we say i want to go like, look at the new york times home page. Oh, how crazy versus waiting for news. Articles to show up in twitter stream so just kind of thinking about how you want to be interacting with with content and media instead of just passively feeling beholden to the channels that you’re already a part of, i think also helps just with that kind of awareness, like we used to pick up the newspaper every day from from from a doorstep. Yeah, yeah, from the news stand okay, okay, which never like two minutes or so left. What else? What else? You have some ideas around filtering fill your other ideas around filtering content. Yeah, something that i found really helpful is that, you know, inside of channels like facebook is having private or semi private group that i engage in a lot more than just that generic kind of big news feed type engagement. So i’m not logging into facebook just to see what happens to be there. I’m logging in to go talk with this community. Andre could be really small or, you know, they could be professional, that i’m not saying there’s only one type, but i think creating some kind of safe private spaces with your friends, with family, with people that you like in any other way is really helpful because even what i have found t use facebook, arlington is two examples of people will still reference content in that group that maybe, you know, is everybody’s sharing that, saying on facebook or there’s a big news item on lincoln that lots of people are interacting with, but it’s a it’s a different way to talk about it in that group than it is often, you know what i’m talking about, where, like lots of different voices jumpin on a thread, and it just turns into a dumpster fire so instead, you know, having a kind of smaller, safer space to talk about things again just makes it feel a little bit more positive to engage their, especially around news items. Then it would be i just feel like you’re commenting on somebody’s post again create small groups that you want teo intentionally interact with versus just waiting to see who’s online and there could even be offline in your really real time real life community. Oh, my god! Okay, we get yes, yes. Oh, yes! Oh, heretical. How heretical is that? All right, we got to leave it there in the sample ward. Thank you so much. Thank you. You’ll find her at amy sample, war dot or ge and at amy r s board next week. I don’t know next week. Oh, no, i do know. Next week i was going to threaten you with fermentation that we actually i thought it might be from fisher, but no, we’re not doing that. It’s going to be with jean takagi. Jean takagi is returning and we’re going to talk about fiscal sponsorship. Big topic. I think we’re going to the whole show. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire miree sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. And this very cool music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do you put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 18, 2017: 5-Minute Marketing for Planned Giving & What’s Fair Game?

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Maria Semple: What’s Fair Game?

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Info you find on LinkedIn about a potential donor belongs in your report on the person. What about Facebook and Instagram? What if the tidbit is embarrassing or compromising, but valuable to your org? Should you friend prospects to learn more? Maria Semple walks us through the ethical conundrums. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder. (Sounds much more interesting than the first segment.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d become fei broke calcification if you hardened to me with the idea that you missed today’s show five minute marketing for planned e-giving the best person to reveal my wildly simple plan giving promotion tips is me oh boy, i don’t know what i’ve gotten into, but i’m here and what’s fair game info you find on linked in about a potential donor belongs in your report on the person. What about facebook and instagram? What if the tidbit is embarrassing or compromising but valuable to your organization? Should you friend prospects tto learn more about them? Maria semple walks us through the ethical conundrums she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder this sounds much more interesting than the first segment and ah, much easier sarrantonio take two planned giving timing we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com all right, well there is not a guest to welcome because, uh, i’m it, um, it’s a little awkward, because although i do a ton of speaking training this, you know that i don’t know, i think it’s very different that’s on a stage, people expect to hear me because i’m in the program it’s not like i just walked in, but i have crashed a few conferences, but they never up on stage. It hasn’t been successful yet, but those aside, you know, i’m in the program i mean, i mean, alright, i’m in today’s program it’s been booked, i’m booked for the spot, but the show is never been me sharing, you know, for, like, for a full segment. What? What i purport to know about planned e-giving or charity registration. You know, i filled in from time to time. Ah, guest is lead or a segment ran short maybe a pre recorded thing man short. And so i would fill in for, like, five minutes or seven minutes or so think is probably the most, but this is, uh this is a different one. This is different experience. Andi, i’m ah, i’m a little nervous about it. My voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old. Um all right, well, i mean, i certainly capable, but it feels weird that’s what i’m saying, it just feels different. This is not my typical venue for me to be speaking without having somebody to talk to. Let me just do a little technical detail first, sam is the facebook shared on facebook live shared on the non-profit radio page, can we, uh because i don’t want it just on my personal pager doing facebook live today? I don’t know if maria simple is going to do facebook live on her end, but you’ll you’ll certainly be hearing her when when it’s her turn. But look at me. I’m already rushing to the second segment already know this is this is okay. Not yet. Not yet. Maria, hang on. Okay, so you want to share the facebook live to the non-profit radio page so that it’s called tony martignetti non-profit radio. Okay, i have to do it on mine. Okay, so ah, i apologized, teo, podcast listeners for ah, for this. You know, just give me a little technological moment, okay? I’m in my facebook. Ah, i see. Live what? Ah, sam’s. Gonna say, i’m gonna take my phone and take care of that and of course, you know, we’re gonna get to the five minute marketing tips. Just hold your horses. You’ve got a nerve, you know, nervous guest. Okay, sam is going to take care of that. So five minute marketing i haven’t expanded version of this that i have done at conferences runs on for ninety minutes or so you’re not getting that version. Don’t we’re going to keep to the toe? Keep to the hour. Okay, but, you know, i mean, if you want me, tio training your conference. I love teo. I love to speak just this is today’s a little weird. So so here’s what? I ah anticipate we’re going to cover very briefly. What plans giving is we’ll make sure everyone’s on the same page with that. What kinds of non-profits benefit? Like what? What do you need to have in place before you can start your plan giving five minute marketing. Okay, on dh. What? The radical revocable planned gift are that that we’re going to be talking about marketing for and there’s a lot more plan giving beyond revocable but that’s what’s going to talk, you know, which is like scratching the surface, you know? Well, it’s, not bite off too much. I want you to get going with plant. E-giving and it doesn’t have to be in depth. So we’re starting with the revocable, and then we’ll get into the marketing tips, which is the bulk of book of our time. Okay, i’m feeling a lot more comfortable but it’s still also a little weird now, it’s like fifty, fifty instead of like ninety ten on the weighted to the weird side now, it’s like fifty fifty okay. Plan giving this’s a method of giving that is long term, involves the donors consideration of their long term plans. Their state plans a retirement plans very different than asking a donor, too, right? A fifty dollar check or even a half a million dollar check or a five million dollar check. These thes gif ts involved more personal considerations of family on dh. How your charity fits into their much longer term plan. And then, typically, these are cash to your organization when the donor dies. So again, long term, if you get a sixty or sixty five year old to include you in their will, they’ve got a twenty five, thirty, thirty five year longevity. So long term. You need to have this long term view of fund-raising. Your board needs to have that. We’re going to get to that board support. But this is not the type of giving that is going to pay the five year capital plan. Or or, you know, any kind of immediate immediate budget needs that you have. This is long term fund-raising. I want to stress that the outset that this is not on ly for your wealthy donors, i mean, the five minute mark in tips i’m going to be giving you these these quick ideas, these air, we’re going to be doing these for all your donors. We’re not getting into discriminating by age, um, because these are easy tips. So i want you to know that these are ideas that are appropriate for any donor-centric to get to this is not on ly for your wealthy donors and all of plant that applies to all of planned e-giving people are very modest means can be terrific planned give prospects i literally mean, if they have been giving you fifteen dollars, a year and they have been doing it for many years, like twelve of the past fifteen years, or eighteen or nineteen or twenty years of the past twenty, they are great plan giving prospects. This is not playing e-giving is not only for your wealthy donors, please take that away and that does not applied on ly to what we’re talking to about today. All of planned e-giving people have very modest means, very modest can include you. In their state plan, the smallest plan to gift i’ve ever seen was a thousand dollars in someone’s will and that’s very rare that i’ve seen that only a handful of times in twenty years. Thank you seventeen twenty years i’ve been doing plan giving only seen a couple seen that a couple of times the average charitable bequests in which you’re gonna be talking about a lot about will’s requesting a will, the average is around thirty six to thirty seven thousand dollars is the average bequest, so please take away planned giving is not on ly for your wealthy donors. Um, we’re going to ah, i just got, you know, we’re going to take our break now, and when we come back, then we’re going to get into what you need to have in place, what kind of non-profits benefit what these revocable gifts are that we were talking about and the marketing tips stay with me. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent since people joining us because that voice again joining us on facebook live. I gotta gotta shout them out. J frost hello. Thank you. Interesting subject. You’ve had me. Uh, jay, didn’t we set something up there? I speak about this. Or maybe i did charity registration for you, but j, are you running for congress? I heard that. I don’t know if it’s true. Let me know if you are running. I admire that very much. If you are. If you’re not, i, uh i still admire you, but you’re a little more lackluster than if you are running. Jackie likened jackie, laken maria and and that’s it okay, so far so far. Ok, cool. Thanks for being with me on facebook. All right, let’s, get into which organizations benefit right now. By the way, i feel much more comfortable now. Now. It’s like ninety five five in my comfort in this format, speaking alone. All right, so what do you need to have in place? You need to have individual donors? If you are strictly grant funded government funded fee for service funded, then you don’t have any potential for plan giving. You need to have individual people e-giving from their pockets and that’s distinguished from people who get you corporate gifts from their employers. That’s different you need to have people giving from their pockets, maybe it’s just your board. I hope all your board is giving from their individual pockets. They certainly should be. Lots of guests have made that case over the years, but, you know, it’s limited to the extent that you have individual donors, if you have lots of people who give individual gifts and great that that is a prerequisite also some longevity i’d like to see at least five years in an organization, because what are we asking the donors to do put you in their will or their other long term plans? Retirement said retirement or state plans inherent in that is the belief that your organization is going toe outlive them. And even though there’s, great passion and even fury sometimes around, you know, new organizations, they’re going to live forever. Your donors don’t may not have the same confidence probably don’t that you do when you’re a brand new organization, so i’d like to see at least five years that gives some confidence that your organization will survive the people who make these plan gifts for you some depth to i’d like to see more than just ah, founder and one or two people, same reason longevity, you know, you might have small potential again. Maybe just you’re bored if you’re just a founder and one or two people. But ah, outsiders is going to be much harder to persuade outsiders that you will survive them if ifit’s a tiny organization just a few people. The long term view of fund-raising i explained why before this could be thirty years waiting for cash to come to your organization. So you need to have a long term view of fund-raising um, and you’re bored metoo needs to understand that building endowment, i hope every knows what endowment is just in case endowment is that fund that you never spend the principle of you only spend, eh? Well, you may not. You only spend income and you may not even spend all the income you have a very good year in your returns, you know, in eight or ten or twelve percent year because non-profits are typically conservatively invested, you’re probably not spending that eight or ten percent, you’re spending a lot less like half of that because they’re going to be years when we turned your lower but that’s the purpose of an endowment isto live perpetually live forever. Hopefully, you’re never spending more than income and plant giving is perfect for building endowment because so many plan gifts are unrestricted and they could get put into that endowment fund, and even a lot of the restricted ones can go to endowment of creating endowed funds for aa program of yours. Ah, scholarships or popular if it’s ah, you know, if it’s some kind of school college, anything you know, really a donor could endow just about anything programmatically, as long as you are willing your organization’s willing to continue that program. So plan giving very good for building endowment. That board support. I mentioned any new initiative. If you’re gonna start planned giving, you need to have the board on board and aware of the long term nature of these kinds of gifts six months into this, you don’t want to boardmember complaining, we haven’t recognized any cash. You’re spending time, even if you say it’s only five minute marketing and but where’s the cash you don’t want that so set the expectations correctly at the outset, but your board members know again long term could be twenty, thirty years for some donors until the cash is received by your organization and any type of mission. I really don’t care what you do if you’re saving animals the sky, trees, educating, feeding, sheltering what else can we be doing? You know any of the charitable missions, anything religious, anything, social service, cultural museums. I worked in the north buried, um, you name it. Anything charitable, it doesn’t matter. Everything i’m going to sixth explain applies for you fund-raising across all charitable missions guaranteed um snusz cj frost in answer didn’t answer whether is going for congress. All right, maybe he’s not. Oh, not yet. He says. Not yet. Okay, well, getting there? Yeah. It’s easy for me to say. Why did you do it? Tony? Martignetti plant giving. So when we are ah, yes, this is this has come up for me a lot. Sexism. I want you to avoid not giving women the attention that they deserve in planned e-giving this goes back to january two thousand eleven, you can go to tony martignetti dot com could see the block post. Just just search sexism. A tony martignetti dot com. You’ll see the post i did and one of the comments. So what i’m what i’m quoting now from is from a comment not me surprise, not quoting myself. There were women who said that they had dropped hints, left messages, sent emails or boldly said something about a state planning and planned e-giving two non-profits that they had been supporting and this was more than one woman, it was one comment or talking about friends of hers, and they have been ignore it. I don’t know how that could possibly happen that is gross negligence and oversight just don’t don’t ignore women. I mean, they have money and they live longer than men, so a lot of men are giving the money to the women. But even if they didn’t, even if they had a shorter life span, they’re still half the population, women have wealth, and they want to support non-profits, so i don’t know how these hints, messages and bold statements could possibly be ignored. Don’t let that happen in your office, it’s gross. All right, we’re moving now to the what what types of gifts i’m talking about. The revocable plan gifts the three. I want to focus on our charitable bequests, that’s, a gift in your will. I got more detail on that living trusts to type of trust that people set up is not charitable purpose. It’s not set up for charitable purposes, but you could be a part of it and being named a beneficiary. Okay, those are the three revocable gifts that were focusing on today. There’s, a ton more you, khun do cracking again, oppcoll sip. Pardon me. Ton more you can do with planned giving, but oppcoll um, i’m only focusing on three things today that these three revocable gifts cherokee, facebook live says yes, we do. Tony yes, women have money and they want to give it don’t ignore them. All right, so these are the three revocable gifts that i’m focusing on because, you know, it’s only a half an hour now and now i feel like i don’t give myself enough time she’d done the whole show. Maria simple, you’re out, you’re out. I’m going out for sixty, all right? No, no, uh, let’s. See? And i want you to know that you can have a very, very respectable planned e-giving program just by focusing on these three revocable gifts, your organization may not be big enough to go any further, and that is fine. And you can have a really respectable, successful plan giving program if you just focus on these three types of gift. Well, you’re already feeling like i’m going to run out of time. All right, all right. So please take that away along with its not only for your wealthy donors. Please take away that you could be a very successful planned giving shop just focusing on these three revocable gif ts absolutely you’re bigger. You want to go further? Absolutely, andi, i worked a lot of organizations that do but also work with a lot that don’t all right. This charitable bequests again, it’s a gift in somebody’s will it’s the most popular kind of planned gift by far, you can expect like seventy five to eighty percent of the gifts that you get to be gifts by will. Why is that? Lots of reasons people don’t have to tell you that they’ve done it? It’s private, we always asking we always want people to tell you because you want to be able to say thank you, but they don’t have to, they can change their minds. This national statistic is like four percent of people change their minds after they put a charity in a will so it’s highly highly unlikely, but you don’t want to be in that four percent. You’ve got to treat your donor’s well and it’s comforting to donors to know that they can change their minds because that’s why a lot of donors don’t tell you because they feel if they do. Tell you, they then have an obligation not to change their minds. We all know that that’s not true. You can change your will anytime you want. I cut my wife out routinely every couple days. There’s. Nothing left for her, but u s so it’s comforting to your donors to know that they can cut you out, even though it’s highly unlikely. But it’s a reason that’s another reason that gift by will are so popular because it’s comforting to donors to know that no lifetime cost this is money that comes out of your state. Lots of people have charity they’re supporting, they wish they could doom or than they can while they’re living. I’m in that situation, but they can do for you cracker voice again. They can do for you mme, or they could do more for you in their state so that maybe their ultimate gift has to be for a lot of people again, remember modest, modest means donors of modest means. They wish they could do more, but they can’t, but that’s an advantage in that there’s no lifetime cost to these. Okay, that’s really? Pretty much all i want to say about requests. No, except for do they get a charitable deduction. Doesn’t matter because these are people who love your love. Your non-profit they’re already donating to you. These are the kinds of people who’re gonna include you in their will. So the charitable deduction, the estate tax deduction who knows what the state of it is going to be in the future? We have no idea, even within the next couple weeks and months, let alone twenty, thirty years from now. But that’s not the primary motivation for most planned gift it’s not that it’s, not the state tax deduction, so don’t worry about it. Okay? The other one, we won’t talk about his living trusts. As i said, it’s set up um, teo, not for charitable purposes. They set it up. People set it up for expedience to get get things out of their state faster. It works because there’s not a court supervised process like if if like it isn’t with a will called that you might have heard this probate process jargon jail, but the probate processes the court supervising the distribution of your assets after your death and by the way, i was death, you know that some people like to i don’t kind ofyou from eyes passing demise. The fact is, you know, we’re going to die and that’s ah that’s, just a part of planned e-giving and when i’m not saying, when you talk to a donut, you’re saying, when you die, we want you in our will we want to be in your will i’m not saying that, but between professionals, you know we can we can say death so that’s what probate is that court supervised process and the assets will get to ah teo ball beneficiaries quicker through a living trust and that’s typically white set up what’s your part in it. The trust has to say what happens at the donors at the death of the person who creates the trust. That’s, your donor has to say what happens. Ah lot goes to my husband, children, husband, wife, children, grandchildren, your charity khun b also one of those beneficiaries at the person’s death you could be named that’s. What? That’s what the value of the living trust is and the third one recovering is the name the beneficiary that’s? Just i’m gonna stop calling out my voice cracks that’s. The last one. I’m calling out the name beneficiary. Anything that has a death benefit. Think of life insurance, that’s, the most common example. You’ve got to decide where the death benefit is going to go, when, when, when you’re where’s, the money going to go most of it goes to husbands, wives, children, grandchildren. But maybe there’s a percentage for your charity. Five percent. Ten percent somebody can carve out. We always say family comes first. But after that, how about a small percentage for for our charity? But going beyond life insurance, some retirement plans, iras four oh, one case for three. B’s cept the small, small employer pensions. Some commercial annuities have death benefits. Some checking and savings accounts have ah, on brokerage accounts have have death benefit metoo them. So anything that has a death benefit your charity can be named all right now we’re getting into the actual five minute marketing tips that i have let’s start with events, drop a few speaking points into remarks were already hosting the event is not a plan giving event but any kind of gala. Any event where your c always speaking that’s probably everyone get them to say something about planned giving. You just need a couple of sentences. This’s. Not even well, i was gonna say not even a full paragraph, but two sentences. Khun b paragraph this is not even a full minute literally. I’m excited. We’ve kicked off a campaign to encourage you to remember us. You know, the organization in your will, it’s, very simple to do and secures our work long into the future. For instance, you know, then you can name a program or something that could be that could be endowed. I was talking about earlier, perpetually, or you could just, you know, rattle off program that you have. You know, you can support any of our great programs. You want more information? Talk to there’s a director development in the corner, you know, you know her. Talk to me. Talk to whoever it is. That’s it it’s like three, four sentences, quick it’s not the main part of the event by any means. Just we’ve kicked off a campaign. That’s a little news hook. It was something interesting kicked off this campaign. Love for you to be a part of it. It’s so simple you couldn’t tao any of our great programs support any of our great programs in the long term. Please talk. Teo. Whoever it is a t end of the program that’s it. I didn’t even spend a minute. Good thinking. I’m gonna run out of time. I should have we’re simple, you’re out. Um okay, five minute marketing was teo. So moron events pretty a program. You already printing a program for pizza? Put something about plan giving in the program. Put a little mention, you know, i’m the evangelist for plan e-giving without the religious overtones of evangelism, but you know, you’re doing the program. Same thing we’ve kicked off a campaign. I’m like dictating it to just start writing. We kicked off a campaign to encourage you to remember us in your will, it’s, so simple to do, secures our work long into the future. Your attorney is going to need our legal name, address and tax id. Here they are. Boom that’s it. Can you put that in your program? But you can or, you know, if you don’t even wanna go that much, just say we kicked off a program. Talk too. Whoever it is, whatever the contact person is. Please. I would love to talk to you today. Get something in the program again. Not spending any more money. You’re already producing programmes anyway. Kayman sample ward is on social media contributor and the ceo of and ten the non-profit technology network out in the prophet oregon. Yes. Wonderful. Welcome, amy. Well mmm. So many. I can’t name them. Uh, not that many more. A couple more. We gotta live. Listen, love too. That’s coming later with second segment. Okay, um okay. That’s it for events again. You not spending any more money already producing the program? Say something. You put something in your already speaking put in a couple of dropping a couple sentences. Oh, my gosh. Print channels. You doing newsletter? Or whether it’s print or email put in a sidebar with the same thing we’ve kicked off a campaign love to have you participate it’s so easy all you need is our two included to include us in your will. Well, you need your legal name, tax id and address. Here they are. Boom! Drop that into a sidebar on any whether it’s print or digital your annual report. Whether you do a printer digital say something about planned giving, innit? Also now i know some organizations i know are getting away from naming donors. I’ve learned that that’s in their annual report, it was always so cumbersome, you get the misspellings and i got so embarrassing the wrong levels. But if you’re naming them, if you’re naming donors in the annual report include your plan giving donors any direct mail you might be doing joppa buckslip in, you know, that’s, a book of your buckslip two third of a page, you print three and page drop it in the same thing that i’ve been talking about kicked off a campaign love to have you participate all your attorney needs is our legal name, tax id and address here they are boom drop that in it’s a third of a page doesn’t cost any more doesn’t increase your postage um, while you’re doing that while printing on direct mail printing envelopes on the envelope flap the flap that you’ve got a print, the envelopes anyway a checkoff box send me information on including your or the name, of course in my will we’ll check off everybody reads that everybody sees the envelope flap so easy i think i gotta wrap it up down i say, sam nods all right, so, uh well, time flies. Holy cow. It’s amazing. This show is out of control. What a show! Um, okay, that’s, five minute marketing for planned giving and what’s fair game with maria simple is coming up first pursuing acquisition campaigns. You need more donors, new donors, it’s their next free webinar on acquisition campaigns getting your new donors what works to inspire that first gift. They’ll have lots of examples actionable strategies which i love you know, i’m always drooling down with guests. I don’t know if people get annoyed but durney bluhm welcome on facebook. Cool. Thanks for joining me. Um, i know people get annoyed. I know listeners. Don’t have guests do but drilling down to actionable steps? I don’t like vagary, i don’t like ten thousand i mean sometimes ten thousand feet, yes, but then we got to drill down. You got to start it. You start high level but then we drill down to tactics. Who actionable steps that’s what i love and that’s what pursue is going to have in this in this webinar that’s? Why they’re that’s, why they sponsor non-profit radio for pizza and so s so now where do you go to register gnome or pursuing dot com click resource is took their bernard no that’s out. Don’t do that. Go to the custom, earl. They have a landing page for non-profit radio listeners. They stepped up their game so we’re stepping up. We gotta step up our game and i need listeners to go to this landing page. So, tony dot m a slash pursuant with a capital p please. In bentley, it matters. You gotta have the capital p in pursuing tony dahna slash pursuant that’s where all the pursuing registrations are going to be from now i’m for now provoc radio listeners i announce our three fifty that they pursuing has, uh, renew their sponsorship. So grateful for that, tony that m a slash pursuant capital p for the acquisition campaign’s web in arts on august thirty first, but if you can’t, oh, it doesn’t really matter, because if you can’t watch live, sign up there on that landing page and then you’ll get an email that tells you when the archive is up. But if that happens within forty eight hours of the live, so if you can’t make the r live watching archive, sign up and you’ll get an email tells you how to watch the archive. Tony dahna may slash pursuant, we’ll be spelling. Please watch the video. See what a fun night of millennial fund-raising looks like that can be yours. This could be your fun night it’s devoted to you it’s not so there was some confusion. Some people thought it was a bunch of charity’s one night. No, we’ll be spelling hosts this for you, for your charity, a night of live dance comedy, um, music, live music and spelling and fund-raising for your organization, this could be cool for any millennial supported organization. If you’re trying to acquire millennials on dh encourage them in get them activated or if they’re already supporting. I don’t know. Uh, i know any sample or do you still on? I don’t know. I don’t want anybody on the spot but intent should consider ah, we’ll be spelling. Um, okay, so check out the video. We b e spelling dot com and then talk to the ceo alex career. You know, he’s a nice guy. He was on the three, fiftieth. Just pick up the phone and talk to him. We be the spelling dot com. Now time for tony’s. Take two and, uh, plan e-giving what do you know? What a coincidence. See how this show is orchestrated? This doesn’t just happen. This is a thought goes into this. Or you could say i have such a limited before that the topics have to coincide because i got so i got so naturally that’s going to come up have to sound the same show. No that’s, not the case planned giving the timing does not matter. I want you to get started with plan giving using those five minute marketing tickets i gave you. And it doesn’t matter when you get started. It’s not, you know. This is informational it’s educational it’s not write us a check. Now you know it’s, our it’s, our annual campaign it’s not like that this’s informational stuff educational donors are going to do it on their timetable, but you’ve got to stop start marketing and promoting the idea. That’s okay, so it doesn’t matter when you start so today’s friday for the live listeners yourselves, the weekend maybe take monday to talk to your ceo tuesday should be starting five minute marketing tips in plan e-giving that’s what i would say so give yourself till tuesday on dh for people listening podcast and of course, our affiliate listeners. So that’s, give yourself three days and then on the fourth day on the fourth day, he said you should begin plan e-giving that’s when the light comes, i don’t think it was the fourth day, but i’m not. I’m not steeped in genesis, okay, the video if you need more promote if you need any more encouragement than that, you could watch my video promote planned giving your timing doesn’t matter. It’s at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two. Maria simple has been patiently waiting. You know her? Aside from a patient waiter, she’s, the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her latest book is magnify your business tips, tools and strategies for growing your business or your non-profit she’s. Our doi end of dirt cheap and free ideas. She’s at the prospect finder dot com and at maria simple and she’s on the phone. Hello, maria. Hello, tony. How are you today? I’m doing great. My voice krauz i said i was gonna do that, linda, like kowski joined us. Hello, linda. Jackie liking says hello from noven health. Hello, jackie. I wish you were coming to the beach. She bagged out on me. Um okay. Maria? Yeah. It’s good to talk to you. Last time was very brief on the three, fiftieth that’s, right? That’s, right? And so now we’re plugging ahead to your for four hundred shell, right? That’s? Correct. It’ll be july twenty eighteen. Absolutely. In the meantime, way want to talk about ethics and what’s what’s fair game. What? You deal with this every single time you’re doing an assignment for a client, right? Yeah. Yeah. That’s. Right, tony, i mean, you know, when we’re talking about prospect research and we’re thinking about all the various tools that we have available to us as prospect researchers, you know, we have to think about what’s available in the public domain because that’s, the thing that’s going to be really important, keep in mind that a donor has the right to come in at any time and asked to see what information you may have compiled on them. So you want to make sure that that you’re always using sources that are available in the public domain. So where we kind of get into some gray areas are in the area of social media sites? Yes, okay, and i think that’s a very, very good test never put anything in your c r m database that you wouldn’t want a donor to read, i think that’s a good test. What do you think? Yeah, yeah, and and i think even even in the way that you’re writing up your reports, try and think about it as an investigative reporter trying not to put subjective statements in there, even if they may have been sort of subjective statements that you might have heard, you know, through the grapevine from volunteers or board. Members or whatever about somebody’s lifestyle or their marital status or whatever it may be, you know, try and just put a statement in there, you know, like whatever the couple divorced in x y z, day ten, you know, leave it out that i don’t think anybody would take offense to that very objective. A bunch of people just join us on facebook. So i got to tell you that we’re talking about the ethics of planned, of, of prospect research and what’s appropriate to be documenting and finding about potential donors. And i want to welcome michael zeller, attorney in north carolina. Just charlotte just hosted an outstanding fiftieth birthday party. Oh, my god. Michael, that was outstanding. You know, i know that. You know, i feel that rob maker. Good to see a rab. Welcome. And dahna gillespie dahna collectibe rivera, but i know it. I know. He’s dahna gillespie. Welcome. Um, okay, so but there can be great value in the end. What you find in social media, of course. I mean, people put a lot of stuff on social and their privacy settings are typically, i think, generally not set the way they want them. And but so there can be a lot of prospect research gold in in the networks, right? Yeah, that’s, right? So, you know, what i thought we might do is just sort of talk about sort of the top three networks for a couple of minutes, like the linked in facebook and twitter and may be trying to figure out, well, what types of information can we glean on dh? Should we be cleaning it? Should we be using it? You know, even if we were stumble upon it, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you put it into this. C r m r we’re into a written report. Yeah, okay, it’s, anarchist, but that’s way could do it that way. I’m just you know, i was thinking of some of the things that you could find out. I mean, you can find out about divorce, right? You know, i’ve had friends, i’ve had two friends who were posting about suicidal, suicidal thoughts, you know? I don’t know probably a lot of people see that, but i mean, that’s very disturbing, but does it belong in a prospect research report? Maybe i don’t know, maybe if you’re looking for that plant. Gift let’s not go there. I’m just kidding. Ae okay, i’m gonna let you off the hook. But it’s, good let’s go over that. We’ll skip over that. Okay? You know and and the words very sensitive stuff. Okay, so you want to you want to start with it? Works. All right. Let’s start with now to me, linked in to me, anything on linkedin is fair game in a prospect research report is that is that is that am i overstating and my oversimplifying? Yeah, i think that anything you find on lengthen, especially since lincoln has what they call a public profile that is out there it is searchable on google. It will come up on page one of google’s search results. If you if you google your prospects name, they’re linked in profile is going to be there. So yes, indeed, anything that you find there is going to be a public domain, and this is sometimes very valuable information. You’ll be able to find out, you know, their longevity at various companies. Maybe some of the companies that they’ve been associated with may have been for for a long period of time. Maybe they’ve got some. Stock that they’ve accumulated from within that company so you might want to think about steering the conversation in the direction of appreciated securities. Okay, okay, but we wear what we want to focus to on the ethics. So so basically, linkedin is do you consider linked in to be wide open? Yes. Okay, absolutely. Okay, i don’t see any ethical questions around anything that people might find in linked in. No, not not what they might find, but the ethical question might come in as to how you as the prospect researcher or the executive director of the development staff using length in how you might have your own privacy setting set up in such a way that, um, you know what other people can see once you’ve looked at their profile, right? So you have three choices on lengthen. You either have people know that you’re looking at there, profile your face, your title and where you work, right are going to follow you everywhere on linked in that headline and a picture so that’s full transparency when you have your privacy settings set up that way, that means they get to see you’ve been looking at them. And you get to see who’s been looking at your profile, but lincoln has two other privacy settings. One is sort of a semi private where, you know, you could be a management consultant in x y z industry in new york city area. Or you could be anonymous when you’re in one of those two modes, then people will not know that you’ve been looking at their profile. Okay? And we have covered this before. You know, this is what i consider fully dressed topless and naked. That’s. Right? Okay. All right. Uh, look, i got a chuckle out of maria. Simple she’s. Probably the only one that’s. Okay? I amuse myself. People should know. You know, if you don’t think i’m funny, i’m amusing myself that’s the most important. And i forgot to shut out joan pel xero i’m sorry, joan. I skipped over you. I scrolled up and then i lost you. Joan pills her on facebook. Thanks for so much for being with us. And also ralph asante and, uh, and mary and mary michalowski joined. Hello, mary. Thanks for joining us on facebook. I might do this more often. This is cool. Um all right. So ethically linked in safe now, let’s, go, teo. Ethical conundrum, where you want to go next, all the anarchist, i’ll give it to you where it’s, like, you want to know what network that let’s talk about facebook, okay, so wide open, okay, yeah, i mean, that’s, the network where people are really sharing about their family, their pictures wait, no, this so what? What do we do with what do we do if we find something that we believe is compromising, like let’s, say, a divorce that that maybe they don’t want the organization to know, but maybe that’s? Just what that’s, just one example, but compromising, but valuable to the organization. How do we deal with that? Again, i think go backto original statement if it’s going to if it’s going to jeopardize your relationship with that donor or that donor prospect, i think you leave it out of the conversations, you leave it out of the c r, m u leave it off of written reports, so if you could just sort of have that is your bellweather, i think it will serve you well, okay, okay, and also you’re your organization might have social media guidelines in place, so check that out first as as your you know, you may have certain guidelines that you, as an organization have decided upon. So if that is the case, anybody knew that you’re bringing into the organization should be aware of the social media guidelines both in terms of how they’re going to use social media for are on behalf of the organization, but there may also be, you know, standards of conduct that they’re expecting a view is an employee’s so again, default back to that statement and default back to your own bellwether your instincts if it feels like it’s going to jeopardize that relationship, don’t put the info in there also apra the the professional association for prospect researchers has a statement on ethics, and we’re going to talk about that after the break. So if your organization doesn’t have, you know, you might be a small organization without a social media policy as it relates to prospect research, apra can can help you out. We’ll get to that, okay, i like you’re like you’re like, you’re guideline, all right, we have just a couple minutes before a break, like a minute and a half a minute what’s the next network you want to talk about? Was it twitter waken talk about twitter that one probably won’t take long. You know, twitter is one of those social media platforms that people might be using, especially these days with regard to their politics, so the weather yet, and that might be important for you to know about depending on what type of organization that you are. So, again, if if knowing someone’s politics is important, you know, maybe checking out to see if they’ve got a twitter feed might be something you want to check out. Okay? Seems like you, twitter, you’re less likely to find something compromising it’s possible, but less likely to find. Something compromising on it. Okay, let’s, take a break. When we come back. I got, of course, i got live. Listen. Love podcast, pleasantries and affiliate affections, naturally, but also will get into the apra ethics ethics statement little about that, and we’ll see what else we had to stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back and i feel like starting with the with the shoutouts, teo, to our listeners, i’m going to start with facebook, but i don’t because it’s a fairly new formats only second time have dahna facebook live, so thank you, everybody on facebook! I believe i have shouted out everybody who joined us. Thank you for being there. Can i ask you to do? Ah one or two things like it and share it like it and share it. I think we know how to do that. I’d be grateful on facebook. Thank you very much. Live listen, love, we’ve got two in germany, guten dog, multiple. So multiple germany and seoul, seoul, south korea, always checking in so soul you’ve been on our minds, obviously a lot on your haserot comes a ham nida coming back into the u s, tampa, florida woodbridge, new jersey, matthews, north carolina and staten island and new york, new york, multiple new york city. Thank you. Multiple manhattan, new york appreciate that staten island. Thank you for being with us. Love it only to burroughs i don’t know. Queens, brooklyn, bronx. All right. Next time we have had a show way had a couple shows. Where was all five boroughs? And then, of course, the podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand listeners. Listen, that’s, why? You know, i don’t know if you put two and two together. It takes me over seven years to do that. But that’s, why? We have such loyal sponsors because there are over twelve thousand people listening to the podcast. So you know how grateful i am because it makes the show so much more fulfilling when there are sponsors, you know, helping me out. Basically mean that how else can i say it? So thank you for listening. You are attracting the sponsors to the show, and i do mean attracting the ones i announced it on the three fiftieth coming up. Wagner, cpas, that’s the only definite one. And i said there may be another one and there may still talking them, but they’re coming to me. So thank you, that’s over twelve thousand podcast listeners each week pleasantries to you and the affiliate affections to our am and fm station listeners through out the country. I’m not sure where you are, but what am i saying? I know exactly where you are and i even know when each station puts me in their schedule. Us, i prefer the us, puts us in their schedule, someone our block during the week, and i’m glad that on on your station, it could be saturday morning might be tuesday night, whenever affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners. Thank you for being with us, thanks to your stations for carrying non-profit radio multi-channel amy’s have award will love that were multi-channel we’ve been for years, and now we get into channel, i’ve discovered facebook only took me seven years, cutting edge, cutting edge what we call a pioneer. Yeah, right. Um okay. So, maria simple. Thank you for being patient again. The patient prospect. Researcher. Thank you. A lot of gabbing today. I’m off on tangents. All right? I feel like a facebook pioneer. I know. I know you’re not giving yourself enough credit. You’ve. You’ve been on facebook for a long time, it’s. Just that you’ve not been using this brand spanking new life from large. Yeah, mother it’s quite brand spanking new, but thank you. Thank you for you. That’s the point. Thank you for driving home that point and character chicken master just joined karen. Welcome on facebook. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. Okay, so we’re talking about the ethics of prospect research. Oh, my god. There’s tons more. How come they don’t show up on my phone? Because why? Oh, they’re in a group. That shit. Oh, my god. There’s! Hundreds. Well, dozens more scores, more than dozens scores more. Uh, okay, i don’t think i should do all those. But thank you. If you’re on facebook and i did not shut you out from from beth granger toe. Harriet steinberg to melinda roth. Epstein to eric mendelson. Thank you for being with us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, so i maria i’m all right. So where do we go from here? Let’s talk about the apra s o apra aperribay pr. It started out as the american prospect research association. Then it became the association of professional researchers for advancement. Now, it’s just apra. So they’ve done to me that’s an abandonment of roots. They’re just apurate. Apurate. Apurate doesn’t mean anything to me probono actually ready haserot along they’ve been after all along i know what stood for different things. It’s i don’t know. I object to this rewrite of history like next it’s going to be we’re gonna be taking down statues of george washington and thomas jefferson in-kind i was around, i was around when they made that shift. And this this is the reason for it. They used to be just the american prospect research association. But now the association really envelope people from all parts of the world. So they wanted to be able to, you know, have that reflective of their their membership base. So now it’s, the association of professional researchers it’s like aarp. They don’t want to be the association. Of retired american association of retired persons anymore haven’t been for years. It’s history rewrite. I don’t mind change, but when it benefits me but it never does that’s why the world has to change without my consent i don’t know what this is, what i don’t i don’t grasp all right, let’s talk about their code of ethics anyway, so they have this ethical code and it does relate to social media specifically so right. So one thing i see is a balance for trying to balance the individual’s right to privacy with the needs of the institution that i like doing that. Yes, he did. And really, it is. It is very, very important that that that balance is capped for sure. Okay, yes. So drilling down on that. What about friends? They have they talk about. Should you be a friend to potential donors? People, you’re researching that’s a no, no. Right on. Yes. In terms of the essex statement that apple put forth that that that is correct, they would really recommend that you do not friend were really enter into a personal relationship with prospects or donors. Now lincoln could be, you know, a completely different platform, right? Because now we’re talking about a business social platform. Okay, right? All right, so but no friend. What about what? This seems like middle ground. What about following somebody on twitter? If you’re a prospect researcher, yeah, i mean, i think that that would be okay to be a follower on twitter because, you know, they’re again twitter feeds are very public, and so, you know, i don’t think there’ll be any issue. They’re okay, but you need to disclose who you are, that’s also in the statement in these guidelines, you need to disclose that you’re a prospect researcher for the organization. Do you need to say that? Um, well, you know, sometimes people will individually have ah, personal twitter account so that i feel the only twitter account that you’re following people from them, then you know, that is it, you know? So i think you have to start looking at your staff and determining, you know which staff members are on twitter hour? Is that the organization that it’s going to be a follower of that individual on twitter and again? It’s two very different to two very different things. Okay, okay, what about corroboration if you find something on a social network, is there an obligation as a prospect researcher to corroborate it from us from another source, or, like almost like a journalist or no? Yeah, if you can, absolutely ah again, is it personal versus business information? That’s going to probably make a difference in terms of what you’re going to try and source in terms of corroboration. But if you know you are, i’m thinking about having somebody make a major gift to your organization and you stumble across something on social media that gives you an indication that this might not be the right time to make that because you might have seen something going on on somebody’s personal facebook feed. You might just double check with you, noah boardmember that knows them well or something like that and just ask, you know, if they know anything about the timing is still a good time to talk to that individual. Okay, maria simple. We gotta leave it there. You’ll find the apra social media ethics statement at apra home dot or ge a after home dot org’s maria sample. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Absolutely. You’ll find her at the prospect finder and she’s at maria simple. You should be following her on twitter. If you’re not latto it’s your life, okay, next week, talking about risk your institutional funders. That’s going to very interesting. Plus, amy sample ward returns, and you gotta let me know what we’re doing. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by re be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com, more sponsors to come, our creative producers playing meyerhoff sam labor, which is the line user, shows social media, is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.