Tag Archives: In-kind giving

Nonprofit Radio for November 3, 2017: Labor Law & In-Kind Gifts

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Thomas Wassel: Labor Law

Tom Wassel

Attorney Thomas Wassel says nonprofits often make mistakes around employee versus independent contractor (it’s not enough to pay them by invoice!) and when bringing in volunteers and interns. We’ll keep you on the right side of the law. (Originally aired June 4, 2014.)



Maria Semple: In-Kind Gifts

Maria Semple

Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder, returns to share her advice about in-kind gifts. How do you find these non-cash gifts, their value and the right appraiser? When do you need an appraiser? Maria answers all. (Originally aired October 10, 2014.)



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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of gigantic nastya if you inflated me with the idea that you missed today’s show labor law attorney thomas l says non-profits often make mistakes around employee versus independent contractor that is, you should know it’s not enough to pay them buy-in voice and when bringing in volunteers and interns, we’ll keep you on the right side of the law that originally aired on june fourth, twenty fourteen and in-kind gif ts maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder returns to share her advice about in-kind gif ts how do you find these non-cash kinds of gif ts what’s their value and how do you find the right appraiser? When do you need an appraiser? Maria answers it all that originally aired october tenth, twenty fourteen tony, take two, show the love responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com you’re not a business, you were non-profit appaloosa accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com tell us they’re turning payment processing into passive revenue streams for non-profits tell us processing dot com here is tom russell with labor law. I’m very glad that subject of labor law for non-profit springs tom will sell to the studio. He’s, a partner in the law firm cullen and dyckman in garden city, new york, and in new york city, he’s been advising employers on a wide range of labor and employment law matters since nineteen eighty three he is president elect of the long island, new york chapter of the labor and employment relations association. Thomas l welcome to the studio. Nice to nice to be in your studio, tony. Pleasure to see you here. I’m glad we could do it face to face. So employees versus independent contractor, it turns out, is not enough to just pay somebody buy-in voice. And then, while love they’re they’re an independent contractor. That’s absolutely enough if you want to get into trouble. But it’s not enough if you want to do it right. Okay. Basically, whenever one person is performing services for another person or another company, the presumption is that there are an employee and that with everything that that entails, including federal taxes, state taxes, worker’s compensation benefits, unemployment insurance benefits, employee health benefits, things like that in order for them to be classified properly as an independent contract that there’s a number of tests that they need to meet. And if they don’t meet those tests and accompany miss classifies employees big trouble with the department of labor. Okay, we’ll talk about the misclassification ramifications. And so now we’re talking about federal and state, the the where where is this test? This test is from the i r s and then and then. Well, is that the eleven points is that from the irs? Absolutely. The irs. The internal revenue service has an eleven point test which is used for determining whether or not you have to take out taxes from people’s wages. Okay, but every state also has its own version of the test there there. Pretty similar, but in terms of whether or not you need to contribute for worker’s compensation benefits or unemployment insurance benefits and they all apply pretty much the same type of test to determine the employee status. Okay. So it sounds like you’re in pretty good shape if you’re following the irs test, which we’re going to talk about, but you still need to enquire at the state level or or you’re not, because you’re not a hundred percent safe if you’re doing following just the irs. That’s, that’s absolutely true in other words, each state can have its own rules and merely complying with the federal law that that’s fine in terms of federal taxation. But certain states have have stricter rules with regard to treating people as independent contractors versus employees. So you need to see counsel in the state in which you practice. I practice in new york, so you know, my comments about any law would be limited to anything in new york state and federal law. Okay, we’ll stick with the federal with the caveat that you should check the state level, but you’re on your you’re well, on your way if you’re if you’re complying with the irs regs, i imagine, absolutely. Okay. Okay, so are we these these eleven items? Eyes is basically around the relationship between the employed, the non-profit and the person doing the work. Absolutely the key elements. In the test, without without trying to go over check checklist abila talk on some of them, we’ll get to something it’s a degree of control that thie and i’m going to go. I’m going to use the term employer here, even though we may say it’s a contractual relationship, okay, but no, we’ll say, or the employer of the company, the relationship between the company and the person performing the service is in an employment relationship. For example, the company tells the employees where to work, what time to show up what their duties are? Ah, and what do they report to who they’re going to supervise if they’re going to supervise anybody, things like that in a relationship like that that that tends towards the employer employee relationship as opposed to an independent contractor for an independent contractor, you basically say here’s the job, here’s here’s, what i want you to accomplish, maybe cem general guidelines do it when you think it’s appropriate, although there may be deadlines set, but i’m not going to tell you how to do it. I’m not going to supervise you on a day to day basis i’m not going to provide you. With the materials to do it, you do it on your own and i’m simply going to pay you a fee, which is another important distinction there the fee basis versus an hourly or salary type basis? Okay, we’ll get to that. You you touched on something that i want to explore a little bit, the place where the work is done. So you you can’t have the person always coming to your office to perform the work know that you can’t have the person doing the work in your office, but it really that would depend on the nature of the work. For example, if if you if you have employees doing the same work and now you’re going to bring in somebody else from the outside to sit alongside your employees and do the same work? Well, that’s an indicator not not it’s, not a single point test, but it’s, an indicator of an employer employee relationship. Now, if this person has his or her own business on the outside, has business cards may work from more than one company at the same time or one after another on it, since you’re simply hiring that outside company to perform services for a limited period of time. Well, that it tends to lean more towards the independent contractor relationship. How do we balance these eleven? Which we’ll get into some detail about some of the others too? But is it ah, like majority, if you have, if you have six out of the eleven year okay, andi it’s going to go one way or the other based on a majority? Or how does it work? Well, there is no bright line test. Those lawyers like to say, i think to some extent you apply the duck test if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck it’s very fact specific and a trier of fact, whether it would be a through the department of labor or worker’s compensation board or in a court of law would look at all of these factors and say, well, okay, the control factor tends to lean towards employees, but the independent company factor tends to lean towards independent contractor and way all of these factors together, and then come up with an answer. Okay, so these eleven points are are the things that iris is going to consider? This is what they’re going to look at, and they’re going to put it all. Together, and they’re going to make a decision. Absolutely. Okay. And i guess it would work similarly at the state level. Like when you mention department of labor. We’re talking about the state department of labor could be state of the state or the united states department of labor. There’s both and and they’re very interested because independent contractors aren’t entitled to overtime or minimum wage or anything like that. You you pay them a fee or you pay them. You pay a company a fee to do something and that’s. Fine. But if their employees and they work more than forty hours in a week, they’re entitled to overtime. Yeah, we may have time to get more into that. Okay. I think we will. Actually. What are some of the other side? The other factors in these in these eleven points. But as i mentioned it’s the ah it’s. How people are paid. Yeah. That’s a good one. Sorry, let’s. Talk about that one. The fee versus fee versus salary. Right. Well, typically, an employee may get an hourly wage. May get a weekly salary. It’s generally, the relationship is often not always but often sort of open ended. That is to say, we’re going to hire you not necessarily for a two week barrier or until you finish this job, but we’re going to hire you as an employee and keep you on. But we pay you on a pay check, a supposed to an independent contractor who would normally be paid through some voucher system or through through ah, obviously issuing a ten, ninety nine, which is the tax form for independent contractors and might be in a lump sum. It might be in regular payments, but it’s not based on number of hours worked or anything like that that again, depending on how you structure the deal, that would tend to lean more towards employees or more towards independent contractor. What about? I think you mentioned giving someone the tools to do the work so you shouldn’t be giving them ah, laptop tto do the work or or other things or certainly office space dedicated in the office? I mean, that’s tending to look like employment, right? When you’re giving them that stuff? Absolutely. If i say, come into my place of business and i’m going to give you everything you need to do the job. And you don’t have toe put anything on the table other than what i give you that’s the hallmark of an employee, as opposed to an independent contractor who brings their own knowledge, skills and tools to the table and does the job that you’re paying them to do. We’ll go out for a short break, and when we come back, tell marcel and i’m going to keep talking about this and then we’ll get into volunteers and interns, and then i believe we will have time to for overtime for employees you’re supposed be paying your employees overtime. Do you maybe want to turn this off? If you’re listening in the office on, remember only the bosses want to hear this, we’ll get into all that stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna let’s, send some live listener love arco, idaho and orlando, florida live listener love to you very glad you with us let’s, go abroad. Seoul, korea man yo haserot, islamabad, pakistan i’m sorry. I don’t know how to greet you in, uh in is it pasha pashtun? Passion is that i’m not sure what, but live listener love to you in islamabad, irrespective of how i would say it in your in your tongue, in your language bonem changing china, always welcoming the chinese lots of listeners, ni hao, nagoya and tokyo, japan sending you konnichi wa and there are others will get to them kuwait also, i wanted to get to kuwait. Um attorney thomas l let’s see if you’re if you’re the person who’s doing the work is getting their income from a bunch of different places. Is that that’s that’s? One of the factors, isn’t it that’s, clearly one of the factors, and and that would certainly militate or tend towards a finding of an independent contractor relationship? If you hire a company, the company may have its own letterhead may have its own invoices, may have its own business cards, may have an ad in the yellow pages for those of us who still actually use paper yellow pages or maybe a gn internet listening nowadays. So if you hold yourself out as an independent company and maybe even filed company tax returns on have a company workers compensation policy, things like that that again would lean towards the independent contractor relationship rather than employees. If you are ah found by the irs to have misclassified people doing the work, would you expect that the irs is going to report to your state department of labor that that they’ve found a misclassification? That’s, that’s a really good question? And i get asked that those kinds of questions a lot from lots of different employers, i tend to represent employers, and my understanding is no, they don’t necessarily do that that. Ah, particularly if you settle the case, the words that come to you and say you messed up, you need to pay x amount, and if you settle it voluntarily, they’re not going to go broadcasting it to the world so that there could be more agencies to come and knock on your door, because that would discourage you from settling in the first place that’s not to say that other agencies won’t find out about it, and certainly if a case republic, if you would have to go to court, which is a public record and other agencies saw that they could be knocking on your door as well. Where do you see employers messing up? Well, it’s again, it’s the any of any of these factors will any or any role these factors? I have clients, and obviously i’m not going to mention names. Uh, i brought you for so it’s um, provocative name dropping, i thought i’d like to keep practising law for a few more. Alright, alright, you’re not retired, they you know i have i have clients that have they’ll bring people in and they treat them as independent contractors and they say, well, they’re only going to be here for two months. I’m hiring them for a special project and i say yes, hiring see, that was the key word there on it doesn’t matter if you’re hyre it is a temporary employee or a permanent employee that’s one factor, but not not controlling you temporary employees, their employees, so you have to treat them as contractors, and i’ve had a number of audits fromthe state workers compensation, border unemployment insurance division that come in and say you’re not paying premiums to these people because you’re not treating them as employees. Pay up. What? What are the penalties let’s talk about the federal level? What would you expect from the irs if ur misclassifying? Well again? In most cases, if if you own up to the to the mistake, you’ll certainly have to pay what’s owed but safe for the i r s not only will you have to pay what the employers share of the taxes wouldn’t really be, and they also have to pay the employees share of the tactics so security taxes that should have been paid exactly pay both the employer and the employee because the employer messes up. The irs isn’t going to go to the employees and say, by the way, some of that money you got, we want you to give some of it back. It’s, the employer’s responsibility to properly pay the employees. Okay, so the back taxes that were owed, what else? What else might be expect? Well there there could be civil penalties involved to or if it was done. Knowingly, over a long period of time, with no knowing that you were violating the law usually second or third offenders, there could be some more severe penalties involved as well. You’re always welcome teo disagree with the onerous right on contest there, their belief that you’re misclassifying absolutely, you know, just just cause the irs says so doesn’t make it so. But the presumption is that these people are employees, right, and it’s up to the employer to prove based on the law that these people are actually independent contractors. So if you if you want to fight them, you better have a pretty good case. Let’s move teo volunteers and interns what? What are what are non-profits often getting wrong around these? Well, the good news for not for not-for-profits we call them not-for-profits in new york, but non-profits same, the good news for non-profits is that you’re allowed to have volunteers in the in the in the in the for-profit sector, you basically can’t have volunteers. Anybody who does work for you has to be paid, but in the in the nonprofit sector, you can’t have volunteers, but there are some rules about that as well the work that’s being volunteered for can’t be the same kind of work that’s otherwise being done. In other words, you can’t have a paid clerical person sitting at a desk and then have somebody else come in and say, well, i’m going to volunteer and i’m going to do the same work sitting side by side, the paid girl really? All right, so it’s like an example of that? Suppose closed, you have employees that are preparing mailings. You’ve got a five thousand piece mailing going out and you don’t hyre ah, male house, you’re doing it inside and you’ve got people stuffing in printing, stuffing envelopes, putting stamps on, and then you bring some volunteers in to do that same work side by side with employees. That’s, that’s, not a volunteer. I’d be very concerned about that if i was the employer and i would if i was their attorney, i would be tell saying we need to take a long, hard look at this because again, people sitting side by side, some people are being paid. Some people are, quote, unquote, volunteering very dangerous situation, even if the volunteers volunteered. I mean, even if they walked in and they love the mission, they’ve said, i want to help you. How can i help? And you said, well, we could use ten hours on, you know, over the weekend to put this mailing together well not-for-profits tend to be generally charitable, religious or religious organizations and the servant public purpose and that’s why they’re allowed tohave volunteers to some extent, but to the extent that you’re basically just doing the same work as other employees and saying, i don’t want to get paid for it, the law doesn’t really sanction such things. Oh, my okay, i gotta take a little tangent because you mentioned for-profit companies, and i’m interested in that on the intern side. What about all the unpaid internships that are coming right now? It’s, it’s, summertime, what about those? Well, and you read about them all the time in the paper about the irs or the part you read about them in the new york journal? I don’t not seeing it in the where i’m seeing in popular more maur, general press well, you get for-profit sar allowed tohave interns, but not that you can’t just but but i had on somebody and say, hi, you’re an intern, you’re gonna work for me and you’re not going to get paid. That would be violating the minimum wage laws for, among other things, but somebody can provide an internship if under certain circumstances, if they’re getting some sort of academic credit from an outside institution, if they are getting some sort of actual training from you that’s not specifically tailored to your organisation, but but taylor to their field of study, if they understand from the outset that they’re not going to get paid and that’s an internship also, it has to be a relationship where i understand from the outset otherwise it’s indentured servitude you tell them you’re getting gonna get paid, then they don’t. They don’t see a paycheck. That’s ah there’s got okay. That’s clearly got to be rolled believe it or not, that’s that’s when i passed that spelled out there, they have to understand that somebody’s done it alright on and also they’re supposed to actually because they’re an intern and learning from you they’re supposed to be, if if anything, and impediments to the business not ah bonus to the business. In other words, if the business says we’re going to hyre fifty interns to do all sorts of work for us and make money for us that’s not really a bona fide internship, the purpose of the internship, the primary purpose is to give training to the intern, not to make money for the company. And if it’s really a benefit to the company that’s one of the factors that will be looked at to say these air, not truly interns. Okay, thank you for taking little digression in tow. For-profit i love it, you know, you have these answers on top, your head man. Xero no notes, which i admire, i don’t like i don’t like notes, really? I have notes, but it is just off the top percent wonderful. I’ve been doing it for thirty plus years. I know you start to learn it if that helps. Yeah, yeah, so let’s, go back to the non-profit side there are so the general rule is that you can’t have unpaid work as volunteers, but then there are these exceptions that we were starting to get into right if it’s a bona fide organization charitable organization and people are truly coming and say, i want to lend a hand to do you were having were having a blood drive? Or we’re having a a special event and i’m a community member. I’m going to come in and volunteer to give some of my time to help you that’s a true volunteer, but again, if if they’re volunteering simply to do work that the company not-for-profits would otherwise be paying for that’s a problem, employees of the not-for-profits basically can’t volunteer to give away free work. That’s interesting. I wonder if that comes up much. I don’t know. Well, if you see it well, i haven’t seen it, but it’s addressed in a number of decisions or regulations where somebody’s tried it. Yeah, obviously what’s in there? Yeah, right. That’s. Interesting. Okay, if you haven’t, i’d say you have an employee working for enough for-profit and and and there’s some child care, you’re going to sit with some child kind of symbols. I don’t want to use the term baby sitting because that sounds jargon, but some sort of ah monitoring situation, which is not within the normal scope of that employees work. That might be okay for a volunteer for the employees, but certainly the employees can volunteer to do. Additional work that employees already getting paid for and where do you see non-profits making mistakes around the volunteer and in turn, well, i get calls from from some of my not non-profits and so, you know, we’ve got we’ve got all these people are in here and, you know, they’re here for, you know, ten or fifteen hours a week doing all this stuff, and i say, really what’s your first question, what were some? Of course? Well, i say, well, what are they doing? Do you have other people that you’re paying to do the same work? And they’re working side by side? Are there are these people already employed by you? Because if they are that’s major red flag onda geun, if they’re duplicating or substituting their substituting for paid employees, that’s, that’s a problem? We’ve got somebody who’s out on a totally leave elearning leave a family medical leave act type of leave, so they’re gonna be out for twelve weeks, so we’re gonna have a volunteer filling for twelve weeks, okay? Do you have a sound of a klaxon in here or, you know piela only like that, but that’s just my voice is all. We have is scary enough thrill enough weak enough as it is that’s very bad. So paternity leave maternity leave. You can’t have a volunteer filling in you’re basically saying, i’m going to have somebody do the same work as a paid employee, but i’m not going to pay them no lost don’t let you do that. All right? I think that’s very interesting. All right, so what do we do, teo, to remedy this. So when your clients are then calling and there, then finding out in this call that they’re they’re running afoul, what do we do next? Well, i tell them aside, i’m obligated to do as an attorney. You should change this, and you should start treating people correctly going forward because every day that you’re in violation of the labor laws or the or the tax code is a new problem. If you change things today or tomorrow and start treating people properly, pay them, then you don’t really have a problem. And by the way, all you have to do to comply with most laws is pay minimum wage and you know you don’t. You could have people have clerical people making fifteen dollars. An hour? I need somebody to fill in, and i’m just going to pay the minimum wage. You can do that, you just can’t pay him nothing. You can’t have them volunteer if they’re not truly bona fide volunteers, can you work out some alternate form of compensation besides, besides money? Like maybe they get some benefits of services from the organization i get sort of a barter arrangements. What i’m thinking of is that is that possible barter arrangements are legal, but their taxable i don’t represent any barter companies, but i happen to have a close friend who’s involved in a bartering company, and i know that when party a’s trading goods or services with party be, both sides are issued ten, ninety nines and and the company, the bartering company, will report that to the irs. So if you just say instead of paying you seven twenty five an hour, which is the federal minimum wage, it’s hyre in new york state and a lot of other states, but instead of paying you seven twenty five an hour for forty hours, which is with two, two hundred ninety eight dollars a week, i’m going to give you two hundred ninety dollars worth of free food that’s that’s a taxable event and frankly, it doesn’t comply with the law. The fair labor standards act, which is the federal law that requires people get paid, requires that you get paid in cash or the equivalent of cash, not in goods and services they’re certain deductions allowed, but not completely excellent. Now we’re talking about federal and state law here, a cz well around the volunteers and interns. Absolutely okay, so we’re talking mostly federal, but with the same qualification you need to check about check what the standards are in in your state are you? Are you still pretty well on your way to compliance? If you’re if you’re complying with what the irs requires, like like we said over on the independent contractor side e, i would say, you know, qualified lee, if that’s a word, if you’re complying with the federal rules, you are more than likely quality complying with state rules, but i certainly can’t give that as a guarantee without taking a look at the state rules. Understand? Okay, let’s, spend a little a little time. We’re just a couple more minutes on overtime for employees, what is the problem here that you see? Big problem is that certain employees aren’t being paid overtime because employers think they don’t have to. And the biggest fallacy, the biggest myth that i see is and and employers and employees both believed this is that if you paid a salary, you don’t get overtime that’s not true, you need to be paid a salary in order to be considered exempt from overtime. But on lee, certain employees performing certain duties are exempt from overtime. The main ones are talking about those one of those executives, administrators or administrative zone and professionals. So if you’re ah not for-profit ifyou’re ah, counselor, a psychologist, psychiatrist, a professional you’re not in your pay and you’re paid on a salary you’re not entitled to overtime, but you may be a highly highly paid administrative person who works closely with management. You may be exempt from overtime, but if you are a lower levels let’s, say, a clerical person lower simply on the orc chart. Not in terms of your worth, but and you’re you don’t have it, a lot of discretion and control doesn’t matter if you paid on a salary you’re entitled to overtime if you work more than forty hours in a work week and that’s not waivable, you can’t agree not to take it. You can’t enter into a contract dipped in blood notarized doesn’t matter. You have to get paid for all hours. Worked at time and a half and not less than time and a half. Pay attention to the labor law. Thomas l, a partner in the law firm of cullen c u l l e n and die kayman d y k m a n in garden city, new york and also in new york city. Thomas l thank you very, very much in my pleasure, mine as well. In-kind gift with maria simple coming up first. Pursuant i hope you find your existing donors who are hiding in your file the ones who are prime and ready to upgrade. 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So we got that we get the live love going out to somewhere, maybe multiple burrows in the five boroughs and then beyond that it’s a wide open country from left costa right coast? I don’t know, but wherever you are listening live, the love goes out and on the heels of that it’s, the podcast pleasantries that has to go as well, so grateful to our over twelve thousand podcast listeners know for pushing thirteenth out. You know, i don’t look every week, so i don’t really know. I just know that the trend is upward, but i only look at the raw numbers every week, but you know, we’re we’re we’re over twelve thousand there’s a stick with that so grateful that the podcast listeners are with us pleasantries to you and our affiliate. Am and fm listeners throughout the country. Thank you for being with us on your am and fm stations, wherever you are. Affections to the affiliate listening audience, the affiliate affection, the affiliate, audience affections. I could do triple a if i felt so inclined. But i think that is enough affections to our affiliate listeners. Here’s maria simple with in-kind gif ts marie sample is back. She’s, our monthly prospect research contributor and the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria. Hey there, tony. How are you? I’m doing very well. How are you today? Just fine. Thank you. Go that’s. Good. We’re here to talk about gifts in-kind on this fall afternoon what way are we are? But i first need to just quickly mention to you that apparently i am having a three year anniversary with your show this week. Really? You’ve been tracking your well, you know, who’s been tracking it is lincoln oh, really? You saw an anniversary notice on lengthen. This is this is your third year yet it sent out an anniversary notice. Tio my connections and i all of a sudden started getting all these congratulatory notes this week. So i thought, well, that isn’t that appropriate that here is my my weak. Teo, reconvene with you. So it’s been three wonderful years. Wow, that’s really something i would if you had asked me, i would have thought it was i would’ve said it was more like two holy cow that’s. Terrific. I get those notices, i but i don’t always read all of them. Usually i just read the birthday notices. I don’t always read all the work anniversary notices, but i also noticed they send them out throughout the month, so they don’t. They don’t only come in the beginning. So maybe i just maybe i haven’t gotten yours yet. You’re three three year anniversary, but happy anniversary. I’m glad you’ve been with me for three years. Thank you for having me for three years. Wonderful. Oh, thank you. My pleasure. Gifts, in-kind let’s. Make sure everybody understands what a gift in-kind is. Yes, that’s, right? Let’s do that first before i get thrown off into jargon jail first, first out of the gate here, so gets in-kind we’d really be anything other than monetary donations, so typically they would be considered donations of food, clothing, medicines, furnishings, office equipment, building materials and, you know, even sometimes services that air provided by somebody could be considered ah, gift in-kind as opposed to a gift in cash that they might give to your organization. So if they’re providing some sort of a specific service and then not charging you for it, i know that, you know, sometimes consultants will do that on on a pro bono basis, so that would be considered a gift in-kind as well, i could throw out another example that i’ve worked on a few times gifts of artwork, art collections are also gif ts in-kind i worked on a really interesting one once. Ah, it was a presidential memorabilia collection, and it ah, included a picture. It included the resin, the one of the nixon resignation letters original signed i think there were five or six that he signed, and it also had a picture of that famous picture of jimmy carter. Menachem begin and anwar sadat. You know, the three of them are shaking hands well, thiss was a deep into six figure art collection, but so they can be really interesting on dh cars. I’ve worked on a couple of classic car donations also, which can be quite valuable. I know you mentioned automobiles. I was just thinking of classic automobiles, but yeah, they they could be they could be kind of fun to work on. Well, so, you know, it must have been interesting. I’ve never had the opportunity myself to be working directly with, uh non-profit while they’ve been, you know, fortunate enough to receive something, you know, of that type of value on also, you know, it got me to thinking about, you know, well, what if i were a small, timid size non-profit and have the millionaire next store living in our community? And maybe people didn’t even realize they were housing any type of art collection or one or two even significant pieces in their home. And you know what? You know? What do you do? What is the next step that you do if you find out that perhaps somebody’s left it to you? And their will, or they could be making the gift while they’re still alive. When then, you know, it got to be really complicated as i started to research this a little bit to try and figure out. Well, what is the non-profit need to do first, in terms of valuing the artwork? So what did you do? I’ll tell you what organizations i kind of came up with that are reputable in terms of places you would turn to, but i’m curious to know how it worked out. How did you appraise the artwork? Yeah, well, let’s, um, let’s, take a step back and make sure he understands the for a gift that’s valued over five thousand dollars and again, like maria said, this is we’re talking about non-cash gifts, so not this is not cash or stock, but something other than that. Over five thousand dollars, the irs requires what’s called a qualified appraisal and that’s a term of art and the qualified appraisal has certain requirements, and a qualified appraisal has to be done by a qualified appraiser and that’s also a term of art, and they’re certain credentials that the irs requires the place that i turned for the presidential art collection anyway was thie the american association of appraisers? I think i’m pretty sure they’re based here in new york, and i believe i contacted them first for some recommendations specific, too presidential memorabilia, was it perhaps the american society of appraisers? Because my research shows that they’re the oldest organization founded in nineteen thirty six, and they think they are in the new york area, okay, could have been, but i think there’s another one, too, which i think is triple a american association of appraisers or american appraisal association, so we could try either one of those years is years more bonified because you actually research that i’m remember i’m living off the top of my head. Yeah, i actually am. I can actually post a list, uh, post show onto your facebook page, but there were actually sort of six top societies or associations, if you will that that my research turned up one was that one i just mentioned the american society of appraisers which according to this particular web site that lists them, says that this one is the oldest and then there’s the art dealers association of america uh the appraisers association of america there’s a triple a? Yeah, there’s. That could’ve been it. Okay. Thie appraisal foundation, thie international society of appraisers and the private art dealers association. So i thought that was all interesting. Then i got to wondering if you can actually turn to any of the major houses that actually, you know, the auction houses like those that you might be seeing featured on something like antiques roadshow. Ah, but i didn’t know if that was, uh, if people turned to those types of auction houses to help, you know, evaluate the worst oven item. Certainly an auction house, i suppose, would get involved once there it actually want to, you know, offload that particular items so that they will end up having the cash. I would imagine that would be the case for any non-profit other than a museum who would want to that gift, perhaps as part of their dahna display? Yeah. It’s it’s ah, it could go broader than that. You know, there are ways that non-profits khun use gifts in-kind in their mission that that are permissible and are not so obvious, like hospitals can use artwork because they can decorate. Waiting rooms and hallways and things. One of the classic car donations that i worked on was for a university, and we were anticipating using the classic convertible in there athletic recruiting because they thought that seventeen eighteen year olds, when they’re thinking about what college to go to to play sports, might love driving around in a being driven around in a fifty seven chevy. I’m pretty sure that’s what it was convertible, so there are different charitable uses that they’re not as obvious as like you said, you know, the museum, there can be other charitable purposes for for these types of gift now, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. That sounds great, actually, i can i can really see how an organization might want to step back and think about how it could fit in, as you said to their overall mission or two attraction, like in the case of the college or university there with their son sports department, really? And of course, there’s also the other examples you gave you no services could be gift in-kind so that’s, obviously being used used up immediately a point that i want to make, too is sort of subsumed in what we’re saying, we’ll make it listen. You have to find the right kind of appraiser. There are like i mentioned presidential memorabilia there. Our appraisers are specialising just that. So if you had a ah, a fine art photograph that was being donated to you you need to find someone who specializes in not only find our photography but they may even specialize in the particular photographer the artist or the era if it’s ah it’s ah it’s! Not a contemporary piece of art so you have to find and this goes into the irs requirements. Do you have to find someone who specializes in precisely what it is you’re being given? If it’s an automobile automobile appraisers it’s just like a medical specialist, you have to find the right kind of person. Maria, let me ask you about trying to find gifts in-kind i mean, these don’t only come from wealthy people. I don’t want people to be left with that idea. They’d only come from people of wealth. What about ways of finding gifts in-kind in your community? Well, that got me to thinking about not not just the individuals in your community. Who, um i might be capable of doing this, but then i started thinking about all of the corporate programs that are in place, for example, that have gifts in-kind as part of their overall corporate social responsibility so they may have a corporate giving program, a corporate foundation, then they may have a separate set of programming related to in-kind um, and then i was wondering, well, how could a non-profit potentially find who are the corporations in my area or, you know, i’m a non-profit in need of, um, you know, whatever women’s closing to help the women in our shelter be closed in the winter months or something like that, you know, where could i find that actually found? Sure, there’s multiple websites, but i found a non-profit website that that looked like it would really be helpful front for your listeners to know about and it’s a good three sixty have you heard about that one? Oh, i don’t know it is what is a good three sixty dot or ge? Yeah, good three, sixty dot or ge and so you can go into this if you are a non-profit and you’re you’re in search of product donations. And you cannot go. You can see the companies that are there. And then, if you’re a company that wants to list your product donations, you can list what you have available on dh. Of course, if you’re an individual that would just like to donate to this particular or a good three sixty dot org’s, you can do that as well. They’re looking for monetary donations. Always. So i just thought it was a pretty interesting, almost like a clearinghouse. It looks like to me. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s, why you’re are dyin of dirt cheap and free. Anything else you found out there about trying to find these types of gif ts? Um uh, i was thinking about this might be more suitable for organizations that are, you know, related to being near the water or maritime or marine environment organizations. But you and i have touched upon yacht’s in the past and trying to figure out, you know, yacht owners and so forth. But, you know, sometimes there will be people who would like to actually donate their yacht, just like people would want to donate a car supposed to try to sell it on their own. So boatinfoworld dot com would allow you to search by stay or county or zip code for a list of boat owners near you. So, you know, if we have anybody in the, you know, marine related industry listening to the call, they might want to check out boatinfoworld dot com to get a list of boat owners. Um, and it could be something that they would want to start cultivating relationships with those individuals getting them and involved in cultivation events, etcetera. You always go the marine way because you have a sailboat. I know you don’t and in-kind wave that in dahna that’s. Ok, you are you donating your sailboat? No, not any time soon, not okay, so you were quick to answer that, too. Okay, okay, where l should we go with this? What if, in terms of, well, i’m sorry? Was there anything more about finding potential gifts? In-kind or is we exhausted that um then i start thinking about real estate, and i was wondering, well, how would you find out if you want it to proactively find if there is real estate, that could be potential for donation? And i was thinking, well, i guess if you got involved in developing a solid relationships with realtors in your area or, you know, even the banks that you know, unfortunately, these last few years, we’ve seen such high foreclosure rates and so forth, there might be some opportunity there if you have conversations with bankers in your community or realtors to find out about some potential properties that could become available, you know, before as a donation. All right, we have to go out for a couple minutes. We come back. I have a couple of tips about real estate gifts that marie is talking about, and we’ll keep going on gif ts in-kind stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s, aria finger do something that and naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Dahna more listeners have joined us from south korea on your haserot and also taipei. Taiwan has joined us. Ni hao. Maria simple. Hey, there. What would i say in jersey? What up? How you doing? Yeah, i doing that’s just yeah, i was born in jersey and i was raised there, so i don’t like that that kind of organized crime overtone around new jersey, but sopranos obviously hit that home. A couple of things that i wanted to reinforce about real estate that that you have brought up real estate can be a very, very good gift for non-profits it can also be a really lousy gift. You have to do your due diligence around real estate and basically it’s the same as if you were buying a home or a condor coop. Do the same too diligence before you put that charity name in the the the chain of title. So you want to do an environmental assessment phase one. If that raises any issues, then you have to go to a face to assessment. If the land has buildings on it or a home, whatever you want to make sure that the building is all in code. So there’s there’s, that kind of an inspection, a building inspection title search to make sure that there wasn’t there isn’t some defect in the title, basically all the things you would do as i said that you, if you were, if you were buying the place to yourself, whether it’s got dahna buildings on it or not before you took ownership of a piece of property, you want to make sure that it’s clean in all those ways environmentally title code and building inspection wise. Oh, and if you do all that, then you can end up with a really valuable gift of real estate. So you you bring up an interesting point. I hadn’t really thought about that chain of title that you just mentioned hyre so if i’m understanding you correctly, does that mean if if somebody were to approach an organization let’s say while they’re alive and they say, you know, i’ve got this undeveloped piece of land we want to leave, too. I would like to donate to your non-profit organization, and if you decide to say, pay well, great and take that piece of wind and then immediately sell it and let say it’s. Sold within, you know, three months time. And if you didn’t go through maybe something in the environmental assessment and then somebody down the line says, wow, i can’t believe x y z non-profit, uh, ever owned this piece of land it happens to have had, you know, contamination on it or whatever. So you’re saying you could end up coming to bite you in from almost like a pr perspective if your name’s somehow attached to it. This’s like a law school exam there’s a bunch of things in the inn. That hypothetical you just gave me? Yep. P r yes, but i think even potentially worse than that. Although pr can be pretty bad. There’s a potential for legal liability. If it’s if it’s an environmental mess, then all the owners in the past and i’m not environment the lawyer, but i know a little bit a very little about it all. The all the owners in the past are potentially liable for not having cleaned it up or possibly for having contributed to the mess. So and that applies to individuals to so yeah, that’s. This is why we do environmental assessments. You can you can get in some really sticky legal trouble, if they’re turns out later on a couple of owners later or something to be an environmental problem and, you know, you didn’t know about it, you didn’t insure against it, things like that. Go ahead. I was just wondering, what about in the case of somebody who is willed, a piece of land or a property that had some sort of an environmental issue from years ago? Let’s let’s, you know, think about somebody who may be owned. Ah ah, a family run gas station for a number of years or something like that or on oil related business oil tanks or something, and then the spouse dies. The person continues to all the remaining spouse, continues to own the property, has no heirs and decides to leave it at her will to a non-profit so then i’m wondering what the impact is mean in this case kayman non-profit just say no, we don’t want it no, thank you. Yeah, again. Sounds like a law school, hypothetical, by the way, i do recognize you turning the tables on me, asking me questions on i and i and i don’t appreciate it so you may not reaching your four with me. Yes, thie through the amount of time that you have to renounce a gift, i’m pretty sure that’s what it’s called in a will varies from state to state it’s typically ninety days or, you know, maybe longer for any beneficiary of a gift by will to turn it down. You don’t have to accept something that’s in a will. So if in your hypothetical the non-profit would want to do its due diligence around that real estate before it accepted the gift and within the time period that it can still turn it down, if it doesn’t want it. The only thing that came out of your earlier one was you said the the charity sells the real estate that’s a whole other issue. If it’s sold within three years of the time of the date of the donation, then that has implications for the donor’s charitable deduction. The donor’s charitable deduction gets reduced because if the charity unloads, i’m using an unkind word, but i’m not using a loaded word but gets rid of that gift within three years of the data donation that it’s presumed that the donation was not part of their charitable mission, not within their charitable mission and therefore that the irs goes back to the donor who claimed the donation and that and the deduction associated with it possibly years earlier, and reduces it from a fair market value to a cost basis dahna deduction. And that could be a huge difference between what it costs the donor to get something and what the market value of it was when they made the gift so big implications if charity does not use a gift if does not use a gift for at least three years, i have to go out in about a minute. Maria so i kind of took over your segment, but but you were asking me questions. So it’s your fault? Um, well, no, i mean, you know, you’ve given us so much food for thought, really? And i think, you know, the bottom line is you really have to be able to, you know, seek out the right appraisers, seek the advice of financial and law professionals when you’re going to be getting any sort of a significant gift. Ah, oven in-kind gift any non-cash related gift that you really do need. Todo your homework and and ah, and know what what to look for here, i think it’s, good stuff. There are a couple of irs publications that will help you publication five twenty six, which is called charitable contributions and also publication five sixty one, which is about gifts in-kind and those qualified appraisals and qualified appraisers i was talking about. Okay, maria, we got to leave it there. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, tony maria simple are doi n of dirt cheap you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter she’s at maria simple next week let’s wait and see i’ve never let you down. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com weinger cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com stoploss accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit card and payment processors. Passive revenue streams for non-profits tell us processing dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. Do with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the odd, they’re ninety five percent go out and be great duitz what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 23, 2013: Cool Crowdfunding & Grow Your In-Kind Giving

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Dana Ostomel: Cool Crowdfunding

Dana Ostomel-Deposit a Gift-BioHeadshot smallDana Ostomel, founder and CEO of Deposit A Gift, shares her wisdom on how to create a successful crowdsourced campaign, from appearance and copy to who you’re reaching and how.

This segment has a survey. Please take a moment to answer four questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you!




Anita Fee Willis: Grow Your In-Kind Giving

Anita Fee Willis and Tony at Fundraising Day 2013
Anita Fee Willis and Tony at Fundraising Day 2013

Anita Fee Willis is vice president of strategic partnerships at New York Needs You. At Fundraising Day in June, we talked about how to create or grow your in-kind giving program. She steps through the process from assessment to “thank you.”




Please take a moment to answer four questions about crowdfunding. If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it. Thank you!


Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NRFZKG9

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Hyre cerini hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i hope you’re with me last week, why i’d suffer particular all over my body if it came to my attention that you had missed linked in to make hires. Mork albert is a linked in trainer and evangelist he returned to explain how linked in branding and search along with your non-profits profile page can work together to help you find the best people to fill your job openings and linked in page analytics. Maria simple, our prospect research contributor, and the prospect find her you know her introduced the new page analytics that will identify your linked in updates that drive the greatest engagement and give you other valuable data this week. Cool crowd funding dahna ostomel founder and ceo of deposited gift shares our wisdom on how to create a successful crowdsourced campaign from appearance and copy to who you’re reaching and how and grow your in-kind giving, i need a fee. Willis is vice president of strategic partnerships at new york needs you at fund-raising day in june, we talked about how to create or grow your in-kind support, she steps us through the process from assessment to thank you between the guests on tony’s take two, you still haven’t a o l e mail. I’m very pleased to welcome to the studio. Dana ostomel she has a marketing in background and branding background with over a decade of experience with brands like snapple, century twenty one and home depot she’s, founder and chief gifting officer of deposit, a gift, a crowdfunding platform at deposit, a gift dot com dahna ostomel welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, it’s a pleasure what’s this let’s, make sure everybody’s on the same definition page. What what is crowdfunding? Sure so crowdfunding is essentially taking your fund-raising online, but not the way that the majority of non-profits air doing it today. Most non-profit websites have a donate button and there’s usually some sort of sterile transactional donation page crowd funding is about how do you love it, your social network? So you create an online donation site that is personal and engaging and has built in social media tools so that it’s compelling to give and it’s compelling to share and people are sharing with their own friends, networks, colleagues, right? That’s correct. Okay, this has become quite popular and say, like, the past three years or so, yeah, i would say, really? Even in the last two years, it’s caught fire. Okay, what do you think is driving that fire? I think what’s driving it is that people have started to realize that this is going to sound a little bit cliche, but the power of the internet really the fact that you can tap into your personal network in a way that you never could before. So i like to think of it like a chain letter, right? So the traditional chain letter came in the mail. Um, you know, there’s only so many printed copies and stamps you could dio um, but now when you’re doing your sort of chain letter online, you khun blasted out to your entire network. You can post it to your facebook page or your linkedin page of you know, however many contacts you have and all of a sudden you’re reaches that much greater your sight don’t have a gift positive, positive gift. Exactly. Thank you. Sorry. Deposited gift. I didn’t start. Out as a charity fund-raising sight. It, in fact, took off in a way that you didn’t anticipate. Yeah, i know it’s been really interesting, so we’ve been live for close to four years, and we actually launched in what was called the cash gift registry space at the time when we went live, crowdfunding wasn’t even a glimmer in anybody’s i wasn’t really happening. What was happening was that people who are getting married or having babies wanted a polite way to ask for cash gifts on and at the time, really, all that existed were called honeymoon registries, where people would register for parts of their honeymoon. So when deposited gift came on the scene, we really sort of disrupted the universe and said, well, you can actually register for any life event for any type of gift and about about a year into being into business, people started using us for fund-raising and were very customer centric business. And so we would we talk to people and find out, and what happened was, is they made the mental leap before we did. If you can register for your honeymoon, why can’t you register for your school’s fundraisers? Sort for people to give directly to the ipads and, you know, the sports equipment or the education fund? Why can’tyou fund-raising tio raise money for your non-profit for a specific event that’s happening or for a friend who’s in need, and so people really like the idea of being able to do directed giving so it’s not just about giving to a fund, but it’s also being able to break down that need. And i think it really empowers donors. I love that it took off in a way that you didn’t expect much like crowdfunding ahs a perfect example of what crowdfunding individual campaigns khun do exact happen to your site? Yeah, i mean, they really sort of just catch fire, and people just started using it in all sorts of innovative ways. And so what happened is that in the last year we were really having a lot of customer conversations. We started working directly with different non-profits even though it was still on a platform that kind of looked more like a gift registry, they really loved that idea of breaking down directed giving, so we had a non-profit use us for their adoptive family, another one for their thanksgiving thanksgiving boxes. Another four hurricane sandy relief on dh while that was happening, we developed actually a new platform that would be dedicated specifically for fundraiser. So now, with deposited gift, you actually come to us, sign up in the system, ask you, what do you hear to do today? Are you here to create a gift registry or you here to raise money for a cause, which is really what we want to talk about today. So if you’re here to raise money for a cause, you go through a specific setup wizard and you come out on the other end with a really beautiful donation site. We like to think of it it’s like, almost like a little micro site so it’s not even just a donation page and that’s kind of a nice contrast between what a lot of non-profits have today where it’s sort of like a sterile, just a one page feels transactional, kind of like a cash register versus a colorful, warm, engaging page with photos where you can tell your story have built in social media tools and built in processing so people can give really easily and move. On but it’s also something that they want to share because they know but if it’s something that’s close to their heart and they pass it on to other people, they received the site it’s going to tell its own story. And now and in this passing on that’s how that’s what i think about funding and that, you know, we’re extending the the charity’s community to our supporters, friends? Yeah, you could think of it kind of like concentric circles, right? So you have that initial network who’s already loyal to a specific organisation those people are probably going to give no matter what, those air sort of like your key influencers that’s what i like to call them, they’re going to be the people who give first and they’re going to be the people that you can really count on to share. And i think, you know, i know we’re going to get into more tips and tricks later, but just on the specific topic it’s really important? Sometimes people think, oh, crowdfunding, it’s using my social network it’s, mass so i can just sit back and send out email blasts and, you know, post on facebook and there is an aspect of personal communication that’s still really important, but the fact is that you have this site that tells your story, um, and you can reach out individually to those people who actually are already part of your your bandwagon, as you might call it asked them, do you know, ten more people that you could share with? And so now it goes to that second layer network, those people get brought into the fold and they feel like it’s something worth giving, they’re going to pass it on, and people don’t have to write, you know, these long, impassioned emails, why you should give because the site tells the story for you it’s more i did. I did this, i think it’s something that may interest you, you know, check it out exactly. And if it’s really compelling if you set the side up well, someone clicks like or clicks tweet on your site. Other people see that you know that’s in everyone’s feed on all someone has to do is click over and read what it is that you’re trying to achieve. Okay, excellent that’s ah, that’s like a great segue way to thinking about set up, we’re going to talk about what you need to think about if you’re if you’re going to embark on this after we’ve chosen deposit, a gift to be are to be our site, what you’re really thinking about for our campaign, let’s get started, absolutely so there’s the two most important factors two successful campaign are your setup, but then marketing, i’d almost say it’s like a forty sixties foot, so in terms of setup it’s really about choosing compelling visuals, at least one right, you have three to five seconds to make a good impression someone lands on your site, you want them to see a picture that pulls them in it’s about telling a concise and powerful pitch, right? So how do you tell the story of what you’re trying to do and who you are and also setting a goal and try and explaining what you’re going to do with the use of funds? And we’re going to have time to go into each of those, and then we just have about a minute before we take our first break and just tease a little bit what goes into the marketing plan and we’ll have deep love playing time? Sure. So, marketing plan. I like people to think of it it’s like they’re roadmap, right? You really you know, sometimes i’ll get customer service emails and they’ll say, ok, we set up our side. It looks so nice. Why isn’t anyone giving me money and there’s this myth that the internet is just going to shower you with money? Um, and what people don’t necessarily realize and it’s, you know, might be hard to hear, especially if marketing is a daunting thing, but we actually have a lot of tools to help people through that, um, is you need to have a plan. You need to have a roadmap. You want to think about who’s your target. How are you going to reach those people? You may want to even segment the target until, like those key influencers, maybe ten to thirty people you talk to first so that you don’t blast out your campaign with a zero balance, right? You wanted to have some money and at first, um what are the other means? To communicate with people that are effective for your organization is online. Good. Do you have? Ah, strong email list. Do people respond well to written communications? That’s fine with deposited gift, you get a unique girl, so it actually translates beautifully to the offline world. So you basically look for the avenues that, you know, your audience is going to respond well to, and just hit it hard. Okay, on dh thinking, do about how often you’re going to be hitting it hard, that’s, right, ok, and the duration and length of your campaigns. We’re gonna have time for all that demons with us for playing time. We’ll go away for a couple seconds. When we come back, we’ll keep talking about cool crowd funding, so keep listening. 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See, let’s talk. So let’s talk about i’m sorry. More about the set up. I think one of the first things you mission was appearance. I mean, how are we going to decide what? You know what we should look like. Exactly. So you want to think of your crowdfunding website is like your storefront. Think of it as the difference between, you know, just a cash register and a well merchandise store, right? One actually makes you wanna stop and shop and the other one and also tell your friends about it, right? You should go back, and the other one does not. Um, so you want to find a compelling visual and depending on your cause, you know, it varies. Sometimes. It’s, your logo, your organization sometimes. It’s a picture of the people who you’re impacting sometimes we’ve helped people actually overlay their logo on a nice photo. You also can put video, you can put video on your home page banner, and you can also put it on all of your sub pages because what we offer actually is like a little micro site, which a lot of people like because it almost feels like a little stand alone website. Um, and that way you can have various pages, if you wish, and it should be looking like your own site, right? So the idea is to have it be a nice compliment so sometimes well, you know, we offer a lot of hands on customer service, almost like consulting, but just because we enjoy it, there’s no extra charge on dh, we’ll assess, you know, what is it that would make the best impact for your particular campaign? So is it pictures of your constituency that’s, often very effective because people want to know who they’re helping a logo can be important, so you may want to choose the same logo that’s on your home page so that they match, you know, sometimes when i talk to non-profits they’ll say, well, you know, can you embed in our website or shouldn’t it look exactly the same? Like some? Sometimes they have a concern because they’re sort of used to the idea of just having this transactional page that’s embedded in that oh, what happens if i send people to another site? But there’s actually a lot of benefit, because one thing you want to think about is reducing the amount of clicks you want to make it really, really easy for people to land on your site, get sucked in and give and you know, non-profit websites are our wonderful they have a lot of information on them, and they’re usually not solely for the purpose of donating right there’s reasons why people go to non-profit websites to learn about the organization. Tto learn about the executive board to maybe get involved sometimes they’re going to donate, um but there’s a lot there’s a lot of information it’s usually packed with a lot of copy on dh usually when you click on the donate button, there are a lot of organizations where you have to click a few times, but before you can actually donate. You know, every time someone way used to give and then there’s different methods of giving and you click on that and then maybe have to read something about other way are, you know, a little deeper and then a third clever time that happened, the actual landing, you’re losing it down on people, you’re losing people. So what you want to do is, you know, with deposited gift, you get a custom microsite with a custom you earl, we always say you want them to communicate back to each other, to link back to each other. So if you’re working on a specific campaign like like a gap, like a gala for your, you know, holiday benefit and what’s really nice about a crowd funding site is you can almost create, like i like to call it an online home for your event. So it’s not like you know, those of us in the online fund-raising world are saying, you know, traditional fund-raising like, you know, go away the idea is not work with what has worked well for you, but take it to another level. At the end of the day, your goal is to raise as much money as you possibly can. So why wouldn’t you top into your network online? It’s just a missed opportunity so you create this online site you linked to it from your home page? Maybe make a really nice graphic on your home page that’s advertising it, but also when you’re when you’re doing your marketing and you’re thinking about that marketing plan, so you’re going to be doing email blast campaigns, you might have an annual appeal letter, social media, you know, there could be fliers of flyers work. Well, you’re gonna have that unique. You are all from deposited, gift and that’s what you want to give people and some people go. What do you mean, you don’t? I’m not going to send them to my website. But that’s not your objective. Your objective is to share your campaign and raise money. Okay, let’s, keep talking about the the set up. The things we need to be thinking about. How do we decide what the goal of the campaign should be? Well, you know what that’s going to vary for everyone? I think often what will say is be realistic but slightly aspirational. Right? So you don’t want your number to be so crazy that the thermometer is never going to start rising and showing any progress the same time. You don’t want it to be so low that you’re actually lowballing what the true need is, so it really kind of depends. You know, some organizations are just doing like their yearly benefit, and so they tend to have a goal based on progress from the year before. Maybe they want to best it by x amount of money. Um, other times we have ah, non-profit on our site right now, that’s actually raising money to send their dreamers off to college. They’ve got seventy two high school graduates who they’ve been with since the third grade, and they wanted to send them off with all of the same school supplies and computers and nice things. Does he want to give a show? Yep. That’s, i have a dream foundation in los angeles, los angeles. And so they did a great fundraiser where people could do very directed giving so they could give toward the computer, give toward the backpacks, give towards the sheets and towels or a general donations. So they actually knew how many kids and what were the things they need so they could quantify and there till you’re seeing the impact you’ve talked earlier and well, i think we’ll have more time to spend to spend on this, but people won’t know exactly what kind of outcome they’re gonna get, and this is perfect. You’re goingto provide a backpack. Ah, laptop. Exactly. A lot of people want to give something tangible. They want to feel connected. And, um, you know, we see this, for example, during the disaster relief, right? Everyone always wants to do good and immediately runs to their closet. What can i give to the people who have just had their house destroyed? You know, what kind of food can i give? An often? What ends up happening is that ah, organizations get bombarded by a lot of stuff that is well intentioned but might not be necessarily what they need. And really, what organizations need in order to be able to triage really quickly is they need money. They know what their specific needs are, but they change day by day, hour by hour. And sometimes, when all of those well intention goods arrive, an organization ends up spending a lot of resource is time and money on just storing and sifting through things and so depositing it is a nice, happy medium where people can organisations khun list out okay, we need x amount of diapers. We need clothes, we need canned goods and then people still sort of get that same joy and lift out of giving something specific. But the organization is getting the money. I’m not burdened. What about the duration of the campaign? How? What? What kind of thinking goes into how long this should last? You know, it’s a good question. I was just on the phone with an organization in chicago that’s building ah, kiddie land playground there. Um neighborhood in chicago doesn’t have ah, playground for the kids and i was coaching them on, you know what they should be putting on their site, and i said, you know, i think it would be a good idea to have a deadline. People respond to deadlines now deposited gift does not force you to have a deadline. We’re not one of the all or nothing crowdfunding sites where if you don’t reach your goal by a certain time, you won’t get your money. Um, so we leave it really open and flexible, but i think when you’re thinking through that marketing plan and creating a timeline for how you want to communicate with people, it’s a good idea to pick a line in the sand i mean, the truth is, at the end of the day, you can extend it if you need teo in the case of the kiddie land playground, you know, they decided to pick mid september, so it was about a month. They’re going to go strong starting next week and promoted and see how it goes, and if they need to fudge it, then del, you know, say, hey, you know what we’re doing so well, where fifty percent of our goal, you know, we need a little more time let’s add two weeks and keep going. Other times people have, you know, there’s a luncheon there’s a gala, there is thanksgiving, people need food, that’s your deadline, okay? And then likewise, with the duration also your goal. Khun, i can change. I asked you about gold, but, you know, you might might not want to get too set or too carried away with trying to pick the exact number because you can always change that, too. I can always change it. The only thing that happens is that your thermometer will recalibrate based on what you’ve received. Towards think that’ll be okay. They’re right for the moment. Arika i think it’s completely fine. And also, you know, sometimes if you if you kind of go on the more conservative side and you start to beat your goal, there’s nothing wrong with a thermometer that says we’re at one hundred and fifty percent that’s. Wonderful that’s very motivating. Um, telling the story. You mentioned a couple of ways. No photos, videos of people who are benefiting from your work. Whatever it is, does it? Does it need to be less text intensive? And mohr visual what’s your vice around at least texting a lot. Davis can feel our campaign story. Yeah. You know, i was just on the phone with someone yesterday and, you know, normally, you know, when it’s your campaign it’s your baby, you have so much to say, you know, and it’s really, really difficult to self at it. So i would say, you know what? Put everything on the paper first and then we can always we can always cut back, but to be is concise is you can be so we are so on. So we’re raising money for this. Um, you can even kind of break it down, like on the about page so you could have sort of an intro and then you can use, you know, text formatting, you know, so make a bold underline the headline that says, like, you know, how will the money be used? And then people love bulleted list it’s much easier to read than a big, chunky paragraph, so use of funds data did, um, you know, maybe then you want to say, learn more about organization and maybe you do look a three to five sentence blurb, and then it says, tto learn more, click here, and that goes to your website. Okay, so there are ways to sort of use lynx and formatting to sort of keep things concise onda also, you know, we have we offer thee about paige, but then also on your actual contribute page, you can put a note, so you’ve got sort of two places where people can read about what you’re doing and the other thing. Is that we did the layout of the site so that when people first land on the main page of your fund-raising site there’s, a very prominent contribute now little ribbon where you could just enter an amount and contribute so yeah, something very quick. The idea was if someone doesn’t want to read anything, which is why having a nice visual at the top is important and some thing that you have a title, that you have a visual and you can identify your organization, people get it someone’s already said, oh, you should give to these people they go nice picture, they read the two to three sentence blur that says we’re so on, so great i’m going to give one hundred bucks they entered in. They click contribute now they’re done in two minutes or so. And then for the people who want to read more, they can navigate as they wish. Okay, you you alluded to the sites where it’s all or nothing. Which away some krauz which is the way some crowd finding site so it’s our set up isn’t there? I mean for a non-profits trying away which which type of site should i? Use isn’t their advantage toe having all or nothing is can’t we use that as a motivator to get more people to give? Because we can say, look, if if we don’t make our goal, we don’t get anything, you know, i think that the all or nothing thing makes sense when you’re trying to launch a product, right? If you’re trying to launch a physical product, which is actually really nothing to dio, usually with the non-profit world, you can’t really create your product unless you get the full amount of money that you need. So in that way, i can see there’s some logic to that you could make the argument that, well, you could at least do the prototype you could get halfway through and then, you know, keep going with a non-profit most of the time, i mean, and even if you look at their friendraising efforts today, they’re just happy to raise as much as they can raise there’s not usually a scenario where if they don’t raise a certain amount, something won’t happen. And if there is, like, with annual campaigns usually at least even now, they just keep going until they get there. So i think the idea of not getting any of what you raise really would be a detriment to non-profit, too, could always find a use for those funds. But i think having a deadline and that’s, just something that you khun set within your marketing communications is really important. Okay? And we’re about to talk about the marketing plan. Remind, excuse me, remind you i’m talking to dana ostomel and she’s, founder and chief gifting officer of deposit, a gift which you’ll find at deposited gift dot com let’s. Talk about the marketing plan. Um, who are we trying to reach? How are we going to reach them? How often? How do we decide these things, right? So you want to segment your target market, um, and you need to think about friday of aspect so one is what do you have in terms of an e mail list you want to? And if you’ve never done email marketing before that’s okay, there’s always a good time to start, get as many males together as you can use une male third party email systems such as like a male champ, which actually up to, i think two thousand five hundred emails i don’t work for male tramp, but it’s a good service if up to twenty, five hundred emails it’s free, they don’t even charge you anything. It’s actually two thousand two thousand per day? Yeah, it’s, because i use it. Yeah, for the email blast that it’s amazing so for free and what it does is it keeps track of your list for you and also gives you stats on like who’s opening it, which links there clicking on so it can be very useful. You want to pull together your email list that’s number one number two you want to start kind of segmenting you’re constituency. So think about who are those key influencers? Who can you go to first and actually, yeah, now you mentioned talking to them first. So you have some money raised already? Yeah, you don’t want to know, like i want to go public with xero xero yeah, there’s a nice strategy to, like, not launching your campaign with a zero balance. So you go to people specifically like that? I have a dream foundation in allah what they did, wass they actually went to their e board, so they sort of launched it internally to their their board and said, you know, well, you give when you pass this along, so by the time they had actually, then when it hadn’t launched it publicly to their whole list and they had some money there, i mean, crowdfunding is all about the crowd, right? People follow the herd they want to give when other people are giving so that’s a really important strategy, and, you know, it can run the gamut depending on your organization. You know, when i been talking lately to students, they’re all going back to to school right now, and clubs and sororities and fraternities are looking at fund-raising um, and so they can start with, you know, their parents or alumni and go to them personally and say, hey, this is what we’re doing, you’ve never been able to be involved in our fund-raising before because it’s always been like a table in the quad, and now we’re bringing it online. Um, when it comes to non-profits even if you have, um, not even a very strong email list, but of course you have a paper mailing lists and you’ve got the phone, you know, who’s most onboard, you can call people up and say, hey, here’s what’s going on? Most people are online, even if you haven’t put together the list, even if you don’t have the money exactly. I mean another strategy is that you could do really inexpensive postcard mailing campaign like let’s say you have no email list at all. You could do a postcard mailing campaign with the girl because it is it’s, not a long gibberish. You are relics of customized girl getting people to donate, you know everybody who gives on your deposit gift fund-raising site, you get that donor data and it’s exportable into excel. So it’s also a nice way to start building and actually that’s interesting leads to one of the questions that i pulled listeners on before the show. Which was do you believe that for people who had run a campaign? Do you believe that your campaign was successful? On one comment? Was we? We raised most of the money? That was our goal, but it didn’t feel like a wind from the engagement side of things or the reputation post campaign. We want way want to use this not only to raise money, but teo increase our our our donor base and our engagement levels. Right? Right? Yes. I someone i was talking to out in ah, at the jewish family services in portland, oregon. Yesterday we were, um they used us for their adoptive family last year and thanksgiving. We’re goingto were planning their next events, and they said that they use the term fund-raising and friend raise. So the idea of, like, you know, getting that engagement, getting the community involved, seeing other people, i think that’s one nice thing about crowdfunding site is that you see, who else is giving. I mean, people can also list themselves as anonymous, and even if they do, it’s still shows up in your recent activity feed. So that shows a lot of engagement on dh. Then, as an organization, you get all of that donor data so you can continue the communication. So when you think about your whole marketing plan, your whole communication strategy it’s it should be sort of long term. So you think about okay, how we gonna launch strong? We’re going to go to those key influencers first, and we’re goingto pat our goal little bit and get some money, okay? Next group of people, what are we going to do? We’re going to do samina mail blast a week one i always recommend you do to email blasts, right? You want to go strong every week? There after, you should do at least one e mail, but you don’t want to make it look were to otis, right? You need to just you need to be looking for reasons to be touching base with people so it could be we’re giving you an update. This is the progress we’ve made on our goal. It could be shout outs to people who’ve been really supportive. It could be. Maybe you’ve already started using the funds, right? Kitty bland has broken ground on their playground here. Look at a picture of how it’s going. So far, i mean, you could even add pictures to your site so people can see the progress, um, and the same thing with, like, your facebook posts, your twitter, you know, the tweets that you put out there using pinterest tumbler linked in, and then how about getting toward the end of the goal? So is your starting get towards the end? And, you know, that’s when people kind of start to poop out a little bit, right? You have to keep up that momentum, same thing you’ve got, you know, you may even have to go a little stronger, maybe it’s two emails that final week final push yeah, the final push you might do other things offline, like so you may end up having an event and at your event, maybe you have posters on the wall. If it’s ah sit down event, maybe you make little card to the table people can give on their phone. So you wanna have calls to action at every touchpoint another question that i asked dana for listeners before the show is whether you’ve helped to manage a charity’s crowdfunding campaign, and only one third said yes, two thirds, actually. Said no, so maybe that will change a bit after after listening to you to wrap up. What is it that you love about the work that you’re doing and, uh, and deposited gift is doing well, you know, we really pride ourselves on high touch customer service, so probably the best part of my days when i get to talk to customers, learn more about what they’re doing, help them choose the images, helped them position their campaigns and and actually watch them start growing. We have a couple of campaigns right now just going off the charts. Um, and it’s amazing. You know, it’s funny. I’m getting e mails from the people going. Wow, that’s. Awesome to see how this works. But, man, this is a lot of work. And, you know, i think that’s the part that people don’t realize, but then we offer coaching on. Okay. Well, so what did you do today? Did you send an email? Have you posted an update yet? Um, and just helping people achieve their goals. It’s really amazing. Outstanding. The site is deposited gift of deposited gift dot com. And dana ostomel is founder and chief gifting officer. Thanks. Very much for being a gift. Thanks for having me. I just said, being a gift when you are again, your gift, your gift to the show, thank you for being a gift to the show. Thank you, thanks for being a guest is, well, it’s. Been great being here. Thank you. Take a break for a couple minutes when we come back, some live listener love there’s a lot more, including new jersey and maryland, about to get shout outs and then tony’s take two, and then we have grow your in-kind e-giving keep listening there, huh? You didn’t think that shooting the getting dink dink, dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. E-giving cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. More live listener love lodi, new jersey and trenton, new jersey welcome, upper marlboro, maryland. I’m headed to delaware shortly, actually tomorrow. Lomita, california and west hampton beach, new york live listener love to you istanbul, turkey live listener loved to you i’m sorry, i don’t know how to say live listener lovin in turkish, but we have ah, listeners also in japan, in kobe, yokohama and tokyo. Konnichi wa tony stake through this week, you still haven’t a o l e mail? Um, i feel a little bad for you on that’s. Why i blogged it this week, i know if you are one of the ol email users, i’ll avoid saying, hold out, you know, i don’t want you trying to make not to make too many value judgments to many value judgments. Ah, but so if you’re still in jol email user, you’re probably thinking what’s the big deal, you know, sometimes my friends make fun of me, my kids might make fun of me what’s the big deal, it’s just e mail it just it just has a certain young look to it, and it just suggests that you’re a little out of touch if you’re still using a o l e mail? Um, and i say a little more about it on my blog’s your your friends are your friends want to tell you, but they don’t they don’t really they don’t want to get to the level of an intervention, but they want you to know that you’re a whale email is bringing you down that’s all, um, you can read a little more on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony take two for friday, the twenty third of august thirty fourth show of the year we have now an interview that i did with anita fi willis talking about growing your in-kind giving this is from fund-raising day this past june and here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen with the marriott marquis hotel in times square, midtown manhattan with me now is i need a fee. Willis we’re going to talk about in-kind gif ts and anita is vice president of strategic partnerships for new york. Needs you, anita, welcome. Hi. Thank you. Pleasant. Have you your seminar topic is building a robust in-kind gift program. A case? Study of new york needs you. So you’re the perfect. Yes, tohave. What is it? Some you see, some shortcomings typically among charities in in-kind giving programs. Well, i think a lot of charities might not even understand how they could be getting in-kind support. So part of it is really doing a needs assessment and figuring out where the gaps are and then figuring out how they could plug those gaps with connections and their networks for going up beyond you know who they already know. Okay, our audience is small and midsize non-profits so let’s, start with the base line. Make sure everybody knows what in-kind gif ts are let’s. Keep it start basic and build from there. So what? How do you define the in-kind in-kind giving is provided as when a company or individual provide support that is not financial. So for new york means you, which is a mentoring crew development program that helps low income, first generation college students achieve college and career success. Us, it means dahna providing workshop space. But that’s something that we spend a lot of money on is just space for our saturday workshops where our students and their mentors come together. We realized we were spending over one hundred thousand dollars on food at these workshops. So getting a food partner to provide discounted food was a huge win for us. It’s. Those kind of things we realized, you know, having a semi annual clothing drive where are volunteers were donating gently used professional attire to take it up a notch. Getting a corporate donor to, you know, donate stuff off the racks. It’s really? A different level of the program. So how do we do this? And thank you for explaining what new york needs you is about where? Well, where? Well, where would we find it? That new york needs you. Dot org’s, that’s. Crap. Okay, where do we start with our needs assessment? It sounds like you did a lot of introspection. Close close inspection into what? What? The possibilities are short. We actually have a handout that will be on the website we handed out at our panel, which just ended. But that helps organizations as a starting point. And i think it’s important for people from different teams across the organization to be involved in that assessment because, you know, it’s, a fundraiser. You have a different perspective that someone who’s actually doing the work and people doing the work at different levels recognize different things, at least in our program. You know that when i first started people said ozon, the students need, like dental assistants and different things, and when we actually rank them in priority order, you there were the things that are in our budget that we were trying to get help so that we didn’t have to spend so much. And then there was the wish list of additional items. The dream list of, you know, if we had unlimited resource is for example, our students are in college and we want them to go on and he’s successful, you know, graduate schools, so getting a partner to provide free test park classes was a definite wish list, you know? And then when we got that that it comes off the list and then you have other things to focus on, so always kind of updating that list, making sure that you know what you’re asking for. And then in our case, we make sure that those needs air communicated so on my monthly dashboard, i put you know how much ivory is financially, and i put the in-kind support and when my ceo go starboard, you know, he asked these air the ten asked this month, and we’ll incorporate in-kind asa’s well. And when you do get those gifts, whether they’re on the real wish list or the real thing, deeper needs some cause for celebration. Yeah, absolutely. And we have a gong in our office. So we celebrate whenever, just as if it’s a financial donation, you have to thank, acknowledge and continue to cultivate the donor in the same way. And sometimes those in-kind gifts can then lead to financial support. Okay, so once we’ve identified our needs what’s, our next step, i start looking for potential partners who are not yet. Yeah, i think once you identify your needs, you also have to clarify your ass to make sure that you know you also what your assets are. So in addition to knowing what you need, you also have to figure out what you have to offer. Because, you know, from a corporate perspective, everyone is always thinking what’s in it for me. And so you have to think about what do you have? That you could be leveraging. So in our case, we have a great network. We have these wonderful college students that are diverse and could be attracted to hr departments or diversity recruiters. And we also have ways that we recognize our partner. So, you know, just things like awards. Those are things that companies like and so putting together, you know, our partnership strategy, we really had a menu of options. And so for our purposes, you know, it looks like three or four buckets for new york needs you, there’s financial in-kind volunteers and internships. And then in exchange for that we have things like awards, the connection to our networks, the listing on our website, all of those kinds of things that we can offer. So we do have to think of this is a two way street it’s not unlike going teo corporate. A potential sponsor. It’s. It sounds very similar to seeking a corporate sponsorship. Maybe for an event or something like that. Exactly. Okay, so taking inventory of what you have to offer and then how do we start to make our make our approach? Well, i would say once you figure out you know what you have to offer and what you need. Then you start making a list of who you think could fill those needs and so you can start with your network of, you know, who do you know who might know someone and build from there? I think that’s, you know, everything starts from a smaller place. Usually it starts with the people that i’ve already stepped up to be in leadership. So in new york needs you, we have a number of volunteer boards, we’ve been advisory board, governing board, a young leadership board and a mentor leadership council. So those people have all, you know, volunteered themselves in a big way. And so those are the natural people we start with. What about vendors to the organization? You look to them to the vendor list? Yeah, and actually, we’re having this barbecue coming up in june e teeth with witchcraft. And so for that event, you know, that started by them providing discounted food for workshops. And then the ceo wanted tohave an event for us. So he’s donating all the food and it’s a great special event, and we actually had a vendor approach us someone who did the flowers for our benefit dinner last year? And she said, i’d love to work with you. We explain we don’t have a budget for flowers, this event, but she said, you know, this is a market where i want to do weddings. I know you have young professionals, so i’m happy to donate and so, you know, we didn’t even approach our vendor in that case. They came to us and you didn’t. You didn’t realize that the young professionals are a potential source of weddings in the future and so that’s yet another thing that new york needs you has to offer. Great. Okay. Okay. Okay. So we’ve identified. So certainly the board. Board’s key volunteers, vendor’s other places that we can look for potential support or if not directly, other networks that we can tap into for potential support. I mean, for us, we really tried it. I think a big part of it is communicating. So, you know, people have their elevator pitch. Like everybody that works at the organization. Should know what you want, what you need. Everyone should know what the organization does. But then when those opportunities arise, so every meeting i go into, you know, i think the great part about in-kind giving is it makes it much easier to get to it. Yes. So if a company says, i can’t give you money, is there anything else? You know, i have a conference room, and i can say, yeah, actually, you know, we want a team retreat we would love it comes from, or we have this small group of e s l students that want to meet on a saturday that would be perfect. So i think that you know, the more that you know what you’re looking for, then the more you khun tap into those opportunities, you could be targeted. If you know this exact company would fit this need, then you can start narrowing in on the company. And who would you need to talk, tio? And then ask your network again. Who knows somebody who might know this person? You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s, monte, m o nt y monty taylor. Dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you do regular training, or or how do you disseminate needs to other people who don’t have this as a primary responsibility, but might come across someone who can help? How do you get that word out? Shoretz so internally as a half, i communicate that our staff meetings, what we’re looking for and then externally, you know, hasn’t mentioned we do monthly dashboards, and so we report that to our board so that they’re aware of it. But we also have conversations with all of our volunteers about their companies and, you know, what are they interested in? Just trying to tap into the different ways that we can partner use? Some companies provide volunteermatch ing and some, you know, way recognize some have space don’t so it’s great to have the insider who knows that culture and that company better to know what their interests are as well. Okay, let’s, continue the process. Who should be in the well? How do we try? How do we get a meeting? We’re leveraging the relationship that that initiated that. The interest? Yeah. So ideally, if it’s a volunteer that works there, we would have the volunteer in the meeting. With us, and that just makes everything go smoother because they usually know the person. So, you know, we don’t have to prove ourselves so much because someone else’s, you know, already champions inside, and they speak that internal language so they could say, i know we’re working on this campaign, and i think this would be really helpful for meeting that goal, which we don’t know us outsiders do you find volunteers generally willing to go in those meetings with you? Yeah, we’ve been really fortunate tohave volunteers, we’re really engaged in the program, and so they’re the best ambassadors for us. And so i think the on ly reluctance is sometimes, if people, you know, they want to make sure that they’re fully equipped with the information that we provide them with, you know, our deck of information, so they are fully equipped. We also let them know that we’re gonna be there to answer all the technical questions, you know, if people want to know about our budget in different things, okay, um, next step, what were in the meeting, i’m going to guess a lot of listening about what the company’s interests are. Yeah, we would. Have done her research before the meeting, so we should know what they’re interested in already and who they’re funding what they’re doing. And then in the meeting, as i mentioned, we kind of have a menu of options. So we talked about partnering and you give some possibilities, and we really want to listen to hear what resonates with them and what’s what’s the next step. So then you do and ask, and then if it’s yes, then you go from there. If it’s no, either way you’re following up, the next step is always following up and continuing the communication. So if it’s yes, you’re hashing out the details of what that looks like in the logistics and if it’s no, you’re still trying to figure out if there are other ways to get to yes. So if it’s no on this kind of in-kind we don’t have a space that’s big enough for your workshop. Well, do you have, you know, some whatever it may be, depending on the company if it’s, for example, this clothing company do you have some volunteered groups that might be willing to work with us to organize a clothing drive that kind of thing, okay? Or maybe that smaller spaces appropriate for something else that you haven’t. Okay, i always like to say six knows and you’re half way to it. Yes, as long as you find out what the objections are you, khun khun sounds like you’re very creative work around them. Yeah, and if if there’s no way of partnering and still doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t, you know, maintain a relationship because you never know where that person might move. And if you have a good relationship, they might go to the company where you really wanted to have a relationship again with yes. Excellent. Okay. Are we in the execution stage now? Yes. Okay. How do we make sure that the partnership works for both of us as it’s being carried out? Shoretz so, i mean, when we’ve talked about it, vardi giving you all the different things that we can offer at these different levels, you’ve communicated to me what you’re interested in, and then we go from there. So if you’ve indicated that, you know, you want to help with volunteer recruiting as one of the things of our partnership, then we talk about that. If it’s, for example, the space ifyou’re gonna host a workshop, then we talk about who should be my point person on that. Do you want to be copied on all these emails? Do you want me to talk to your logistics people so it’s just being very clear because you don’t want to bombard people with emails and things that they might have interested in, but some people really like to be kept in the loop, even if they’re not the point person. So it’s really making sure you have clear communication about in the execution, okay? And after after execution, the event is over. How do we express our gratitude yet again? So you think i mean, depending on what you have as a non-profit what kind of media channels you have? You know, we have a monthly newsletter, we have a website and facebook and twitter, and so we try to think our sponsors and partners on there, but we also just, you know, as an individual that hand written thank you note the email follow-up just, you know, making sure that people really understand thatyou appreciate this whether it’s money or in-kind support that you really do value it and that i think, you know, sometimes seeing people as fundraisers, you think they’re just want something from you, but when people actually appreciate you and value you and, you know, want a relationship with you, i think that’s what people really want, i do plan e-giving fund-raising and i write a lot of hand written notes because they’re so uncommon and and so simple, and you don’t have to fill in eight and a half by eleven sheet, but something really genuine, sincere, heartfelt, you know, it can be said in a couple of sentences and it’s so much more appreciated, i think that and the eight and a half by eleven letterhead, you know, word produced document, so i agree with your hand written note idea, how do we continue the relationship? I think it’s really helpful for anyone and fund-raising to be very organized and to be tracking everything to do so that, you know, okay, we’ve had this event, i thank them, and then hopefully we’re talking about next year’s event or an expert shop you’re gonna host so it’s not ended the conversation, it’s just, you know, moving on to the next step of when will we partner again and making sure that you have some regular touchpoint if you don’t have an event again together until a year later, making sure that there’s some points you’re going to check in tow to see how they’re doing. If there’s anything, they need making sure that you send them, you know, your end card, that you’ve appreciated them, making sure that there’s some kind of communication along the way, no different than individual fundez, exactly. We’re treating people like people, yes, what have i not asked yet? We haven’t still a couple minutes left. What would you like to remind people of that we haven’t talked about? Maybe. What are the challenges around trying to get in-kind giving? Okay, i guess the challenges probably, or just that people don’t necessarily i understand what it is and so talking to volunteers about it, you have to just give examples and make sure that they can see that just because it’s, not a budget, doesn’t mean it’s not possible sometimes that’s better because you have more freedom around this kind of thing. So, you know, we recently had a meeting or something so they couldn’t give us money, and we said, well, what about on a saturday? Are you using your workspace like, you know, would that be possible and then mean, the conversation developed from there, but it’s, like you can’t expect people to think of these things, you really have to be targeted with your list of wishes and as with anything, you know, that more prepared you are, the better, more likely you are to succeed. What about the organization that just feels they don’t have anything to offer back? I think that then you’re probably having a hard time raising money if you don’t feel good about your programs and you don’t feel that this is something people should want to be a part of then i think that’s an important thing you need to work on because, you know, people want to be part of a winning program, so you need to feel good about it and be ableto really identify what your strengths are and how can you market yourselves is unique. Okay, let’s, leave listeners with one tip toe get started. Get started in their in-kind let’s have no in-kind giving program let’s just remind where how do i start? Sure. So you can use the worksheet on the website from today’s conference new york needs you dot org’s and this fund-raising day it’s one of the handouts. I believe it’ll be on the website as well. Ok, and so basically just start by looking at your budget and figuring out what do you want to be spending less on that someone else could be helping you cover and then make a wish list of things that aren’t even on your budget. Ok, so you have those two lists. The needs and the rial. Aspirational wishes. That’s cool. Thank you very much. Thank you. My pleasure. Need a fee. Willis is the vice president, i was i was going to say director it’s a good thing i didn’t do it off the top of my head. Vice president of strategic partnerships for new york needs you one. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen thank you very much for being with us. Got more live listener love madrid, spain and lima, peru welcome live listener love out to you next week i’m going to be on bethany beach in delaware, but we have a very good show for you prerecorded couple weeks ago trim tab marketing james eaton is president and creative director of the tronvig group he’s gonna explain how something small and seemingly insignificant, like the trim tab that helps she steer huge ships could make a big difference in your marketing. Also more social. Now what amy sample ward, our social media contributor, has thoughts about how to manage the internal changes when you make social media apart of your office culture. The overhead myth show is booked for september sixth. Three ceos who signed that overhead myth letter from better business bureau guide star in charity now arika charity navigator are coming on the show september sixth, and i’d love to have your questions for them twitter, facebook, blog’s some of your questions. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with you next week. Friday one to two eastern at talking alternative dot com. You didn’t think to bring a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving e-giving good. Are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday said. Known eastern time to learn timpson. Juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative that calms. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. 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