Gene Takagi has been Nonprofit Radio’s legal contributor for four years. Here’s his best advice.
Gene Takagi has been Nonprofit Radio’s legal contributor for four years. Here’s his best advice.
Great ideas on using video (from NTC, Nonprofit Technology Conference) with Michael Hoffman CEO of See3 Communications
Protecting your donor promises: Robertson v. Princeton with Prof. Doug White at Columbia University.
Personal Branding with Dorie Clark.
New domain .ngo, including explanation of how domain naming works (I learned a lot!) with Andrew Mack (AMGlobal Consulting), Glen McKnight (NARALO) & Evan Leibovitch (ICANN) (also from NTC).
Female Technologists: A really smart panel with Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery & Tracy Kronzak (ditto, NTC).
Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%
I Love Our Sponsors!
Allison Fine: Matterness
Allison Fine, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit,” reminds us that people matter. But nonprofits often don’t show the love. What can you do to show people how important they are to your nonprofit?
Gene Takagi: Program Your Board
Your board probably recognizes its fiduciary responsibilities, but does it know its role in overseeing programs? Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO).
Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.
You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.
If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.
When and where: On Fridays at 1pm Eastern: Talking Alternative Radio
You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.View Full Transcript
Transcript for 174_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140110.mp3
Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:07:12.869Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2014…01…174_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140110.mp3.143928126.json
Path to text: transcripts/2014/01/174_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140110.txt
Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be seized by acute epiglottis itis if i had to hear that you had missed in front of the media in twenty fourteen janet falk principle of fall communications and research shared what belongs in your twenty fourteen media plan on how to execute so that media pay attention to you and social sites to watch in twenty fourteen amy sample ward had the social media sites that will take off this year. She’s, our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network this week matter-ness allison find returns, co author of the network to non-profit she’ll remind us that people matter, but non-profits often don’t show the love. What can you do to show people how important they are to your non-profit and program? You’re bored. Your board probably recognizes its fiduciary responsibilities but doesn’t know its role in overseeing programs. Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo between the guests on tony’s, take two our fan of the week were brought to you by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising for runs, walks and rides. And by t b r c cost recovery getting your money back from phone bill errors and omissions. Very grateful for our two sponsors, allison find you should know me. Uh, hello. I didn’t give you a proper introduction yet. I was just i was just saying your name. But but hello, how are you? I’m fine. We’ve been introduced before, though way have but it was a year ago and some people may not remember there’s been a lot of shows since then. So let me let people know. Besides, you deserve you know, is it from some recognition for your work, your body of work? Because you study and write about the intersection of social media and social change. And you are the author of the award winning book momentum igniting social change in the connected age. And of course, your more recent book is the network non-profit co authored with beth cantor who’s. Been a guest on the show? Yes, allison find you also. This sounds like this is your life. I don’t know. Because usually i’m not talking to the person but that’s, the way it got set up so that’s the way it happened. Of course, you also host the monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy, called social good. Um, i have one of those two, did you? I think you knew that. Sure, on twitter, you are at a fine and your site is alison fine dot com. Welcome back, allison, thanks so much for having me. Tony it’s. A pleasure. I enjoyed talking to you. Thank you. Do you still have your you don’t still have a fine blawg. What happened to a fine blanc? A fine blogging is on my website. Oh, at allison, fine dot com. Correct. Okay, very good. Okay. People matter, but non-profits don’t show it what’s your concerns around matter-ness so i’ll tell you how i stumbled on this word. Tony good. I recently completed a three year term as president of my congregation. I made it. And where was that uncertain whether you would survive your presidency? You never know in the middle of one of those things, but, you know, it was a great honor, okay? When i began in that role, i was inundated with emails of concern from congregants, and i would diligently try to answer every single one, you know, i’m i’m so sorry the doors were locked when you showed up, so sorry you didn’t get it think you know as quickly as you wanted, i’m so sorry, you know, that i would agree to do when you came in. Whatever the issue wasn’t, um am tinkering with things and trying very hard to be responses. And about a year into that role, tony, i got the ultimate email from somebody. It was a long time congregant who said she was in the hospital for the week before, and she was very upset that nobody had called her, even though she didn’t. Tell anybody she was in the oh my goodness. So i got that even i sat back and said, what in the world is going on here? There’s some other stuff. She must have some other. This this doesn’t make any sense at all. And then going back through the other complaints, i saw this pattern and the pattern was right across the board, which wass i joined here because i wanted to belong to be a part of something important to may and whatever you have just done has made me feel like i don’t matter at all. All right. I thought i was important. I thought i counted. I thought you cared about me and what you just did show me that you don’t. And it takes a lot of work to undo that hurt for people, you know, feeling like they’re insignificant. Tony is not a an insignificant problem for any organization, any business, much less social service or human or research organization. Uh, because it really hits to the core of people. We all want a matter somewhere. Alison let’s. Just make sure that everyone understands the congregation is ah, this is a jewish congregation. Is a jewish temple synagogue human-centered new york. Okay, okay, just making sure that you understand. It’s it’s, it’s we’re talking about religion and faith based on dh because that may have special meaning for the for the members they may they may hold you to ah hyre standard than they would be average charity that they’re they’re affiliated with. I think there certainly is, you know, a depth of feeling on the part of a lot of people when you join a religious congregation. But when i went, i went on to facebook and then i asked people win when have you felt in your life? Like you don’t matter to an organization or company and got a whole slew of responses. Tony of i don’t matter when i’ve asked the organisation changed my name on appeals and it doesn’t get changed. You know, i don’t matter when i make a contribution and instead of a thank you note, the next thing i get us, another asked for a contribution, right? I don’t matter when i go to the gala of the organization and don’t get greeted by anybody. It was an across the board feeling of i am trying. To contribute somewhere this is, you know, very particular to causes on non-profits i care about a cause, and i feel like i’m a cog in a great big direct mail machines, yeah, technology and our fast paced work lives and personal lives, these things cut both ways. I mean, there are efficiencies and productivity that are important, but we have to treat people like they matter is right. I mean, we’re we’re going to come out in this, so this is this is a cutting edge, you know, the two side of that coin of technology on the one hand, right? It can make the wheels turn very quickly. On the other hand, it could make us all feel like we are, you know, far on the outside. What happens with organizations, tony, is that they become enamored of efficiency internally, right there is the the mantra of daily work is basically, how quickly can i finish my to do list? We’re trying to cross things off my to do list, which is never ending. You know how it would make a great progress. That’s, right? Yeah. There’s. Always things added. Yeah. Oh, it’s. Not like that. And i got one in my heart, you know, goes out i go and see non-profit folks who have pages and pages of to do list and what they become it is what i call they become inside out organizations they view the world from inside this, you know, little case of trying frantically to get all of these things done because they’re always under resourced. And in that doing in that drive to try to make some progress on the to do list, they forget that they’re actually individuals out there. So we we engage on a transactional level rather than a personal relationship type level, right? And so what happens is you begin to view the world in in buckets, you know, you hear organizations oh, all the time, tony, talking about buckets of people right here are our empty nesters, and over here are people who live in this part of the city and over here are direct male donors, constituents way to manage the work, to try to organize people and in some kind of cluster that way constituent groups, constituent groups, right? I don’t like that. One day you are a constituent. Ah group like that you’re not a person anymore. Yeah, this is this is interesting. Well, it’s, interesting, because we’re you’re giving thought to something that on dh voice, to something that i think a lot of people feel dahna it’s, also just very topical for timely ideas, i should say for me. Yeah, there’s just there’s been some guests who have been encouraging us to humanize the world the way from the perspective that day that they bring to the show. Whether that’s, the example i’m thinking of off immediately is ah, instead of calling people prospects, you know, potential donor ours, but the prospect, you know, prospect research that’s the one that just comes off my head. But it’s very interesting. You’re you’re a bit of an anarchist, you know that? Oh, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that you’re a troublemaker. You sister told you i’m a pot stirrer, tony. Their pots out there to be stirred. Your pot stirrer. Okay, i like anarchist plot stars that same. Okay, you know why? Because somebody has to remind organizations that have become too enamored of systems too enamored of, you know, paradigms and all of that stuff that at the end of the day, it all boils down to people, right? And if you’re making people feel like they’re only value, teo is the check that they could write or have written, uh, that’s. A terrible way to do your work to meet your mission. It will. You know, you might the financially better off you will not. Your soul will not be fulfilled. Your work will not be fulfilled that way. But even financially in the long term, i think you’re going to suffer. We have to. We have to. It kills me, but we can’t take a little break. We’re definitely coming back. I’m already regretting that alison fine is not with me for the full hour this time. Not not that, not that are not that gene takagi is a crummy guest gene gene, maybe listening. Is anybody from california, san francisco, but he could be traveling. I don’t see him in san francisco listening right now, but gina, i love you, too. I do love you. I’m just we’ll have to have allison back, okay, let’s, take this break and we’ll come right back. I didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need wear small business consultant so we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe, right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three, four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent time for live listener love we got kendall park, new jersey, seattle, washington, irvine, california, new bern, north carolina live listener love to you, you matter, but, you know we do live listen love all the time, and everybody knows that not just because alison fine is reminding us that people matter live listener love is all the time podcast pleasantries, of course, if you’re listening in the time shift, i love you, too. We’ve got the netherlands, we’ve got inchon, korea and seoul, korea on your haserot for our korean listeners and there’s more live listener love coming, lots more live listener live listeners out there. And allison friend of yours, i guess maybe on twitter. Jennifer flowers says that she wishes you were on for the full hour. Also that way. Thank her for me, jennifer. Alison says thank you. You just think to yourself, but you’ll come back of course, right. Absolutely way. Love you on non-profit radio. Um okay. So where this this process orientation? This? Yeah, right. I mean, it’s a turn process? Yeah, but okay, so we have to strike the balance. Yeah. Okay. This is very hard, you know, you make this is this love that you were talking about this. You make people want toe, take a step back, you make people take a step back and want to be better in there. I think day two day relationships, not not just only in their non-profit roll, but i think just day to day i i admire that. I admire that. You you think these thoughts? Well, i think the key tony is trying to remind people and help them to figure out how to make relationship building primary in their work life and their whole life, right? Because it is so overwhelming life right now, there’s so much information were clicking and tweeting and picking and poking and all of those things. But what doesn’t change is our need to connect with people personally on the need to be connected in really meaningful ways. And so i take it as my responsibility to keep reminding people of that that you can use this technology technology that can potential like next to you with hundreds, thousands, millions of people. But at the end of the day, i hope you’ve touched one person in a meaningful way, sametz oppcoll let’s get into some detailed ideas that you have about being able to go about doing this better. Yeah, so one of the things that organizations particular non-profit organizations don’t do well, tony, if they don’t tell stories well, uh, which is astounding because their work is so important and so good. Ah, and yet when they tell stories, they tend to do it again inside out, they do it about the process of something, you know, people showed up less thirty two people showed up last tuesday night for a movie night, and it was fabulous on we made fifteen hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars, and we had cookies out, right? Right? Or a testimonial, right if they asked someone else’s falik it’s about how this is the best organization in the entire world, hands down and what they’re missing is an opportunity to enable the people who were touched by their work to talk about what it meant to them. Oh, and we have all the tools to do that they could do a one minute youtube video, right that when i came to this singles program, i wasn’t alone. For the first time, i didn’t feel alone, right? That is so much more powerful than you know, the singles program is the top ranked blah, blah, blah, you know, in the metro area, which doesn’t mean anything to anybody, but you talk about touching people in a way that they don’t longer feel lonely. Wow, now you really have something, right? Everybody has what i call up these iconic stories buried within their organization and it’s the job of everybody in the organization, not just staff, but bored and volunteers as well to try to look for them. So, for instance, if we are a let’s, say we’re ah, a school on we might even be devoted to the catholic education tradition because i believe there’s such a school that may be listening in in westchester. Actually, we might empower the students. Teo do ah video with their phones. You can absolutely do a video and talk about how does it feel to them to go to this school? Right? What makes it different? A lot of kids who come teo religious education. Where in secular schools first, this difference, it feels different should feel different. Uh, what does? It mean to be connected to the teachers here? How do you feel about your classmates? Do you feel like people care about you here? And e? I don’t want to hear that from principals and teachers and parents. I want to hear that from kids, right? Yes, and they’re right there and they have all of these tools, he’s said. To be far better storytellers than kids twenty years ago could have been please we have. We have recording studios in our pockets, it’s, exactly right, everybody pull out your phone and tell us one thing that makes you feel good about being here. I love it, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yes, of course the technology is empowering. Yeah, this is the asking for testimonials, that’s true, you know, jeez, you’re touching me. You’re killing me. You know i love you and i hate you at the same time. You’re annoying the hell out of me, but you’re not even married to me, tony. You’re close enough, you just in westchester. I feel it anyway. No, you know, i hate it because you’re making me want to do things differently. You know how annoying that is, it’s it’s not so far away from where people are right it’s changing the lens, right? It’s saying we have to stop just talking about us as an institution and start talking about us as people who are engaged here, right? How does it feel to be touched by us to be touched with us? To be part of this, um, effort, i’ve talked often with people who are running addiction programs or mental health programs, and obviously they aren’t going to talk about individual clients without their permission. But i say perhaps there are parents ah, in your community, uh, who could be asked to talk about what it meant to you to find a safe place for your child, even if you don’t use their real name, right? Thinking about how powerful that is, tony. Finally find someplace that cared as much about your child and your child difficulties as you did that’s the place i would want to take my kid not not, not the place that has the latest drugs are the most, you know, mds on staff. It could be enormously touching and and informative at the same time. Yeah. What jury is just one part? Okay. Yeah, i know. What’s what’s, what’s something else. You know, i like to leave listeners with things they can think about and execute. Right? So we need to take a good, hard look at the social media communities we are building. I know that. You know, amy sample ward is your regular social media guru. Rest as she should be because she’s fabulous. I know she speaks about this as well. But thie idea tony isn’t just about the flashy numbers, right? I can’t tell you how many times have been in board rooms of the past two three years and listen to the recitation of social media, transactional numbers and everybody fantastic. Ten percent up on likes on face. The vanity metrics knew i was missing a phrase it right? We’re all all the bells and whistles, and it means nothing, right? So everybody in an organization one i hope that they are using the channels and that the organization is comfortable with lots of people speaking about the work, um, and to the people, are learning to become calm, rotational on the channels. That’s, a big jump organization, right? So we’re so again, we’re back to like testimonials. But the default setting in organization is to talk about your organization to people out there. So you’re just using social media is a great big billboard and losing all the power of the conversational ism of the tools that make them so powerful, that that’s, why they’re ubiquitous, because you can talk and somebody conduct back to you. I love twitter for that. I have i’d say i have the most fun on twitter talking toa listeners. Yeah, yeah, i love i love love love twitter, right? So you can you can engage with people you can feel like you’re having a conversation and when you do that, tony, when you move from billboard to conversation, what happens is other people who are watching and most people are lurking and watching, not engaging, which is fine, but they can see and experience how you think about and treat people that’s really important. I sent tweets sometimes, and i feel a chill or i or my my eyes get watery because someone has told me how much they you know, usually it’s tze not much more, much deeper than love love non-profit radio loved the show, thanks for doing what you’re doing, you know? And i’m sending back gratitude and thank you so much appreciate that and i’ve gotten away from saying, check us out on facebook trying stop doing that and just be gracious but and grateful and just and stopped there with just gratitude, but sometimes, you know, i click that send and i really i feel like i feel something physical in my body that really the marrow eyes were getting a little water here. I feel a chill going through me thie emotions we have when we’re connecting with people anywhere, it doesn’t matter what the vehicle is our real right we are there, you know, emotionally, um, reaching out and feeling the love from somebody organization see to do two things in their engagement’s much better. They need to be much more gracious in there thinking a cz you were just saying and just they need to thank a thousand times more than they do you know that the churning out the thank you letter it’s just not good enough. Why not take to the channels and every day just think a donor on the child’s right for a modest gift, right? You could take the channels and thanks sally smith in missouri for the eighteen dollars, contribution, we are so grateful to have her support and other people are watching you be grateful. That’s. One thing and that’s the easier one hears the hard won. He ready, tony? Yes. We’re all buckled up. Ready for the hard one. You’re already pissing me off. Go ahead. No, no it’s going to get worse. Part one is taking a problem to the channels and asking people to help you solve it so we’ve heard from people that they’re tired of getting four uh fund-raising requests a month from us now we are trying to meet our budgetary demands. Here are our annual budget and to date that’s been our best strategy for doing that? Help us sell the problem. What do we need to do differently to one make you feel like he really matter and you’re not just an atm machine, but two to help us solve our financial problems, help us figure it out. I worked with one organization that had to get rid of that got rid of their snail mail news monthly newsletter, which fourteen thousand dollars a year they couldn’t afford it anymore, and they began to hear from people that they missed it. You know that getting an email with a pds and it just wasn’t the same thing, and they had the courage to take it to their face, the group and they help us solve the problem, and a donor came through and gave them a donation hopefully will continue to in the future. But it wasn’t about the donation it’s about the stop looking like you have everything perfectly down pat because you don’t and start engaging your people in real problem solving on twitter. Lynette singleton is with us using the hashtag non-profit radio, and she says that clark howard once labeled customer complaints as free many customers satisfaction surveys it’s related to what you’re saying, people are when people are communicating, they’re doing it for a reason. They they’re they’re sharing their feelings about what you’re doing that’s, right? If they didn’t love you, tony, they wouldn’t bother complaining. We wouldn’t tell you they just right they would they would just go away, right? And your job is to say, if somebody complains about something it’s likely somebody else has the same complaint and just didn’t make it. So what is the possible harm of going out and saying we heard about a problem and way need your help, your input? I think organisations particularly non-profits work way too hard to try to look perfect, tony and i think it’s to their disadvantage to continue to do that. I think that’s absolutely true, they don’t want to reveal that they’re having trouble with the budget as you mentioned, or maybe staffing or maybe volunteer revels or maybe the facebook pages not engaging i don’t mean just metric i don’t just mean numerically, but really engaging wise and they don’t want they don’t want anybody to know it that’s, exactly right and pretending that you’re not having problems. It’s just keeping people at a great distance. We have just a couple of minutes left. Damn, um okay, so all right, don’t be afraid to ask the questions of the of your community, of your of your folks. All right? Can we leave people with one more idea before we have to go? Uh, so one more idea, it’s more of a concept than an idea. Tony, is this concept i’ve been writing about this year working on a book on this called big small towns, and the idea is that everybody is physically, geographically located somewhere. We’re all living on land somewhere, and we will for the foreseeable future, going to school and going to work and go into the doctor. But at the same time, we’re also citizens of communities on online, and these aren’t separate dichotomous places. These are integrated places. Write that i will go online, get an idea, bring it down to the ground and work on it or ask a question or meet somebody and in the totality of it, it’s one really big small town, really, really big, small town, and when we begin to think about that integrated on line on land ecosystems, i think it begins to enable us to see a great world of abundance out there, that we don’t always see that we can go to people for help with ideas of capital for volunteers, for a whole bunch of things online that can enormously benefit are on land communities. So i just want to really share that with people that i hope that they can begin to see the world through that kind of lens in the near future. Allison, find magnificent you’re pissing me off, you make me want to be better and i love you love you too, tony. Ok, al, you find her and alison find dot com on twitter she’s at a fine if you’re not following alison on twitter it’s your life, you know what can i say? We’re going to finish, we’re gonna continue this we’re gonna have ahh matter-ness part do re ducks s o i will be in touch, allison or no pleasure. Thank you so much, tony. Thank you. Lynette singleton. Thank you for participating the conversation. Uh, thank you for that one that thank you very much. Other people i need to thank. Rally bound. They are a sponsor of this show. You know, without sponsors, bringing the show is ah, is a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Um, a conversation like this? Um, yeah. I’m grateful to rally bound. They are. Ah, peer-to-peer fund-raising software company it’s friends asking friends to give to your cause a za non-profit radio listener, you will get a discount on rally bounds campaign platform people have been calling already. That’s very cool. I love that. I’m glad. Um really bound helped a camp. It was the first time doing peer-to-peer fund-raising the camp raised nine thousand dollars and got one hundred eighty four percent of its goal. You’ll find them at rally bound dot com or just pick up the phone and call joe magee at rally bound. He’ll answer your questions and he’s gonna help you set up your campaign. I know, joe. Um and i know he’s. Not gonna pressure you. They don’t, they don’t. He doesn’t have to rally bound dot com or triple eight seven, six, seven, nine o seven six i also want to thank and i am thanking t brc cost recovery telephone bill reduction consulting yourself, rabinowitz he goes over your past phone bills, he’s looking for errors, mistakes, services you didn’t order ninety percent of the time he finds a problem, and when he does, he picks up the phone and deals with the phone company to get you money back. If he doesn’t get the money back, then you don’t pay him. I’ve referred yourself many times, and he is also no pressure team drc dot com or two one, two, six double four nine triple xero fan of the week at lays right on twitter it’s, lazy w r i g h t she’s in indiana, she’s in the cornfields of indiana, she loves non-profit radio, a runner and a knitter. Who’s your girl non-profit radio loves you back at lease, right? Thank you so much. If you’d like to be a fan of the show, i’d love to talk about you. Uh, talk to me on twitter or facebook there’s so much. Live listen, love here. I can’t i can’t stand it. Harrison new york east orange, new jersey, san francisco, california. Well, that’s probably. Gene takagi, los alamos, new mexico. Cedar knolls, new jersey. Chung ching, china. Ni hao. Cas ou guy, japan. I apologize if i pronounced it wrong. But, you know, live listener. Love is going out to you in japan. Konnichiwa. Um, goodness, i think that’s tony’s take two for friday, the tenth of january second show of the year. Sam is frantically handing me notes. Huntington station, new york. Welcome where you’ve been. You checking in late. Better late than never, i suppose. But you should have been here a half an hour ago. Huntington station. Now live. Listen. Who loved to hunting the station? New york, of course. Jean takagi he’s, a principal of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Gene has been gene has been a regular contributor to show it’s got to be going on three years. Gina i if it’s not three it’s very close. He had it’s, the non popular, that the non popular beautiful he had it’s the popular non-profit law blawg dot com non-profit law. Blogged dot com it’s very popular. And on twitter he’s at gee tak gt happy new year jean takagi. Welcome back. Happy new year. Tony it’s. Great to be on. Thank you. I love having you. How long have you been a contributor? Every month, i think it’s been a little over three years. That is it. Is it over three love make it could be i think we met three years ago at a bar in san francisco. If i remember, right? Oh, for sure. It’s not like we picked up up there where i knew you before. I’m not that easy with contributors. I mean, yes, we we knew each other. And then we certainly did meet that’s, right? With along with emily chan? Yes. That’s. Right. Um, let’s see, our board has our board has some responsibilities and around program you’re concerned that they’re not they’re not fulfilling those responsibilities. Yeah, i just feel like there’s there’s maybe some, uh, lack of attention paid on the boards roll on program oversight? I think so often went, especially when you talk with lawyers or accountants were talking about financial oversight, and we’re saying we’ll make sure you’re solvent. Make sure you have enough money to pay off your debts, they become due. We don’t really talk very much about programs, but certainly the management folks and the funders air talking about programs and whether they’re effective and efficient, that furthering the mission. So, you know, i thought we should explore a little bit about what the board duties are in in that event as well. Can you just remind us first, we’ve talked about this a while ago. There are three duties that board members have. I was faith, hope and chastity, or on the greatest of those is but yeah, the three duties are the duty of care and that’s act with reasonable care in providing direction and oversight over the organization, the duty of loyalty, and a lot of that has to do with avoiding conflicts of interests that are not in the best interest of the organizations, but are more for the best interests of an insider and the duty of obedience which lawyers air very interested in, and that’s a bang with both the outside laws of, you know, that apply to the organization and the internal laws like the by-laws and other policies. That the documents may have said, those are the three to be to be concerned with, ok and and around program program is essential. Man. That’s what charity’s exist for his programs? Oh, my voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old exist. That’s exciting stuff. Now that it is, it is that’s. Right? Well, you make it interesting. That’s. Why? I love having you back. You make the what could very well be a dry topic. I think you make it interesting. And listeners do too. Yeah. That’s. What charity? They’re here it’s for a program. Yeah, exactly. I mean, who cares? The indie at the end of the day, if we’ve got great financials, if none of our programs are effective and we don’t do a service to the community precisely. So what? What do we need to be doing? What the board’s need to be doing around around program? Well, i think in meeting those three duties, the critical aspect for boards to make sure they’re reasonably informed. Ah, and just get a program report every month or every two months. You know, a ten minute program report from the executive director or program director is fine and good. But does that mean the board really understands the programs and whether the advance the mission? Ah, and do they understand how the program’s advance emission? And did they ever ask you more difficult questions about are the programs effective at advancing the mission? Or do we have alternatives? Or should we think of alternatives that might be able to advance that mission mohr effectively or more efficiently, given the limited resources that we all have? First up in this is and we have talked about this. Your mission needs to be very clear. Yeah, and one of the things you have to do is make sure you go back. And this is the lawyer speaking. Make sure you go back to your articles of incorporation and by-laws and make sure that the mission statement that years thinking you’re thatyou’re furthering is consistent with what the law says. Your mission is. And that’s that’s how it’s displayed on the governing documents and in figuring out whether we are effective at meeting our mission. Now we’ve gotto identify cem numbers, right? I mean, it’s not just gonna be a ten minute report from the program director we’ve got to be looking at some numbers to figure out whether our we’re having the outcomes that we want, right and it’s such a such a difficult question and that’s, why it’s it’s all about keeping informed? Because, you know, the whole area program evaluation and back cantor and and a lot of institutions like the stanford center on philanthropy, in civil society and mckinsey and, you know, the non-profit cordially foundations, and they all have been writing all sorts of things on program evaluation and how we need more metrics and, you know, but all of that is great, but this is really hard stuff for a lot of non-profits to do so, yes, trying to figure out what what measurements are are important for us to figure out. Are we advancing our mission effectively? And then are we advancing it efficiently is really hard stuff, i think tip typically non-profits will, you know, measure how much money we’ve raised, how many visitors we’ve had or people with served, how many members we have, what is our overhead ratio on? We’ve had discussions on that topic as well, and, you know, those are interesting figures in all important, and i don’t want to downplay that. But what about you know, then, you know, the number of clients served. For example, does that really tell us what impact that’s done? No, before the clients. And you know, the program staff may know that. But how does the board know that if we have? If we served a thousand clients last month, did we did we serve them by giving them one meal? Did that change their lives? Did we do more than that? Did we provide services? What? What and impact are we trying to aim for? And what results are we getting those air really difficult things to try to figure out. But i think the board needs to push the organization in that direction. Of trying to figure out are the programs that write programs? Are we effectively implementing it? And if you want to, you know, evaluate your executive and evaluate your programs. You’ve gotta have a good understanding of that. I feel your passion around this, jean. I really do. It comes it’s it’s palpable. Now, in managing these programs. It’s, not the board’s roll. Teo, be day to day. There’s clearly there’s a delegation that has durney happening? Yeah, absolutely. And and the board certainly has the ability, teo, and should be delegating if they have staff in an executive director, particularly delegating those duties on those people. And especially, you know, holding the executive accountable and tasking executive and making sure the executive has resources to be able to do this, to try to figure out what measurements should we take? Teo, evaluate our programs. What what’s important? What do we have the capacity to do now? And what? What do we aspire to do? What are outside stakeholders wanting? What are the foundations saying we must have? And what are the donor’s expecting from us and how to our competitors provide that type of information back? I think we just need to push. Our executives were lucky enough to have them to figure some of those things out. And none of this has done overnight. Of course, tony, but you know, you you’ve gotto work at this, and sometimes you’re going to move forward, and sometimes you gotta move backwards. But you’ve got to keep pushing, pushing ahead. You just asked five or six really difficult but critical questions. Um, it’s a good thing. This is a podcast. Cause. Now people can listen. Go, go back to the past one minute and listen to those five or six questions. Jean just just named, you know, difficulty, but, but but critical. And and yet the board’s oversight responsibility remains and that can’t be delegated. That’s, right? So you know, the board, khun delegate management, but the board can’t delegate its ultimate oversight of the organization and it’s, you know, it’s responsibility to plan the direction of the organization. So status quo, if you know if that’s all you’re satisfied with and you don’t aim to do anything else with that, you know, that may not that may indicate that you don’t have the best board in place, and i was a little shocked teo learned, i think two days ago guidestar held a web cast, and there was a survey done of executive directors, and seventy five percent said they were unhappy with their boards and there’s a big disconnect there. Seventy five percent proof. Okay, what else? What else, uh, is part of the boards oversight of program? Gene? Well, you know, one thing i kind of want to emphasize as well is that i don’t want to put all of this on the board of directors, and i realized that the vast majority of board members are volunteers and have busy lives otherwise and are doing an amazing job. Trying to contribute to their organizations, the disconnect with the exec director is usually because of communications and a lack of understanding of their respective roles. So i just want to put a little bit of a burden on the executive director as well, to make sure that they are emphasizing board development and helping the board understand its responsibilities and sometimes bringing in experts, even though they may cost a little at the outset. Khun b really valuable to an organisation to try to figure out what these roles are, and again put in a little investment up front, and you can get payoff down the road even if you have some failures along the way. But it’s just that continuing to push forward to trying to understand what you’re doing who’s responsible for what? On figuring that stuff out the metrics themselves again. Our khun b, you know, exceedingly difficult if if i asked you give us metrics on changing laws when we were fighting for civil rights. Um, well, that might take years or decades to get any measurable results per se that might make a thunder happy. And you know what would have happened in the early sixties, you know, civil rights organizations just had their program shut down because boards didn’t get the right metrics that would have been ridiculous, right? So we have to understand the limitation of these measurements as well, but continue to try to figure out what important steps or bench marks were shooting for and what’s important to do, even if we don’t get the metrics on and make sure our funders and donors and stakeholders understand those limitations as well, just a minute or so before before breaking what? What kind of expert would help us with this? What would we search for? Well, there there are some consultants out there who specialize in program evaluation, and there there are definitely resource is out there. I have named a few organizations already, but let me give you a few more the foundation centre and they’re grantspace website has got some excellent resource is on program evaluation, the national council of non-profits also has some excellent resources. They’re they’re definitely resource is out there, and if you look for non-profit consultants who got program evaluation expertise, i think that can be a starting place. This is also a ripe area. For collaboration amongst organizations that are serving similar populations, or have similar missions. To try to meet together and talked about how they’re measuring, you know, their program, results and what would work for maybe, you know, across the sub sector that that they’re serving, all of those things are really important. I think again, executive leadership is really important to get the board in motion, but the board also has to hold the executive responsible for making sure that happens as well. Let’s, take a break. Gene and i, of course, will keep talking about the board’s responsibility around program and the executive director’s, too. Lynette singleton and at lays, right. Thank you for thank you very much. For those very, very kind thoughts on twitter. Hang in there. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s, monte, m o nt y monty taylor. Dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. More live listener love junction china ni hao, the netherlands gary indiana the home of christmas story, right? I’m pretty sure a christmas story that movie took place in gary, indiana live listen, i’d love to gary, indiana, and we’ve got a couple checking in from japan, hiroshima and kobe konnichi wa, farmington, michigan live listener love out to you. We have a question from twitter jean very loyal listener lynette singleton asks, do we know why there’s this lack of love between executive directors with and their boards, any ideas what’s contributing to that? I think i’m sorry, tony, that i think there are a number of factors that make be contributing to that, but i think the first is lack of understanding of the rules that each place and then it’s it’s a matter of communication between the two parties, there are great expectations that that board’s place on executives and the reliance on the executives tio teo, make do with limited resources to produce amazing results, and that can sometimes be a very heavy burden on the executive without a lot of support from the board and exactly what the board’s role is in supporting the executive. Director’s also, i think there many areas where there’s a lack of agreement or understanding between those roles and, you know, fund-raising is actually one of the areas of of ex, actually, some controversy, i think, you know, is the board involved is the board’s role to raise funds for the organisation. From a legal perspective, i might answer no to some extent, from a more operational perspective, i would say, of course, it is so there’s, different considerations, and that was a charity navigator to study, right? I’m not sure. I thought you said i’d start with. I’m sorry, the organization that did the webinar. Okay, okay, god start. Pardon me. Ok wave talking, talking about program meeting the mission, but there’s also legal requirements around program as well. Sure, and then the board should make sure that the executive is ensuring that the program is in compliance with whatever applicable laws might be there, whether it have to do with the facility of the organization or the employees and volunteers working for it, their basic risk management steps that they may want to take a swell, including ensuring that there’s proper insurance for whatever activities are are involved. Obviously, if you’re doing a summer day camp involving rope climbing and like that that’s going to be a little bit more significant in terms of risk management than if you’re just doing administrative work, lots of legal compliance, things, licensing, permitting and in all of those things as well, can boardmember sze be personally liable if laws are being broken and that’s why we have directors and officers insurance, isn’t it? Yeah, part partly why we have that it’s usually, you know, if there’s some sort of negligence involved when the boardmember acting not as a boardmember but as a volunteer for a program, then you’re probably looking at commercial general. Liability insurance to protect against, you know, somebody slip and fall and blaming the volunteer who was right supposed to set it up on the board members, directors and officers. Insurance will really protect against decisions that the board made that ultimately, you know, in hindsight, we’re negligent or grossly negligent, and, you know, if they decided to hold a program in involved involving bungee jumping with six year olds and without adequate supervision that, you know, that would be be a type of negligence that could get boardmember personally liable for something like that. But volunteermatch boardmember czar really, really, really rarely held personally liable absent some sort of malfeasance or self dealing benefit themselves. Okay, i’ve seen some six year olds on the subway that i wouldn’t mind having participating that that bungee jumping off a cliff i could i could give them a little shove to get them started, but not not kids. I know nobody related to me, only only what’s people have seen some hype it that it go well, now they’re real. I’ve seen him in the subway. I just don’t know who they are. I can’t name them, but i could point them. Out easily. Probably on my way home, i’ll encounter a few. Um, what else should we be thinking about? You know, your get before i asked before we do that, you’re an anarchist. Also, you’re making us. I got two troublemakers on the show today. You are making us ask questions that are very difficult, but but critical? Yeah. You know, e think of lawyers and consultants more broadly. That’s what? What we do, we can implement the changes that we talked about, what we want to raise the questions because we want boards and executives to really be thinking about these things and discussing them. And that’ll help break down the barriers and the misunderstandings and hopefully make more executive directors feel that their boards air great, make more executive, make more boards feel that their executive directors are doing a great job as well. As i said, i feel your passion around this. We have just about two minutes. You have another thought around this? Yeah. You know, just tio, make sure that again and i’ve talked a little bit about this is that there are limitations to what metrics can provide to an organization and some things. Just take a really long time to figure out research i mentioned lobbying on civil rights issues is one example, but research as well, you know, for gonna engage in research of a new right and how it’s going to work or developing a new medical device or drug that’s going to be beneficial to developing nations and the people there who might not have the resources to be able to afford these things. We’ve got to be a little bit experimental, and i know you know, there’s been preaching to the choir about embracing failure and sharing it so we can learn in advance, but that really is something that i’ll echo as well, that, you know, we’re going to get metrics and sometimes the metrics they’re going to show we failed, but if we never fail, that means we’ve never really pushed the envelope of making a more substantial change, and we’re just sort of, you know, relying on making little incremental changes, and we have to think about our organizations and say, are we the type of organization that just wants to stay status quo? Do we want to make little tiny, incremental changes year by year? Or do we actually want to look at solving or advancing our mission in a really big way and actually take some risk and then find some programs out there that might be more risky and that might fail and help educate our funders and our donors and our supporters that you have this is what we’re doing, and not everything is going to work, but this is the way to advance, you know, our cause lawyer with a heart jing jing takagi really so grateful that you’re contributing to the show? Jean, thank you so much. Thank you, johnny. And thanks for basing this serious subject may that’s alright, uh, we have a little fun with it. You’re an anarchist is no question you’ll find jean at non-profit law blogged dot com that’s the block that he had it and he’s at g tack on twitter. Thank you again, jean, thanks so much. Next week, female financial literacy alice march returns and personal financial planner sheila walker. Hartwell is with her. Wow, what a show today! Really? I’m just i’m moved. Damn! I love doing this show. Um, about two female financial literacy women need to get up to speed in professional and personal money issues and what’s public on private companies are prospect research contributor maria simple. The prospect finder has tips aplenty for doing your research on privately held companies. Please remember rally bound in your thoughts and telephone bill reduction consulting also tb rc they’re helping to bring the show to you. Valley bound dot com and tb r si dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. We’re gonna be doing a remote more about that next week. A pretty prominent remote and it’s going to live streamed. In the meantime, you could check the hashtag e-giving twenty thirteen if you want to learn before waiting for the announcement that i make next week. Our music is by scott stein. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I hope to be with me next friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com dahna you’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get a drink. You could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two one to seven to one one eight, three that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Hyre
At the end of the year I’m thinking about my favorite doings in 2013, from my blog and Nonprofit Radio.
The Overhead Myth Letter Signers with Art Taylor, Jacob Harold & Ken Berger
Measuring the Networked Nonprofit 150th show! with Beth Kanter
Cool Crowdfunding with Dana Ostomel
I Had a Great Interview But I Didn’t Get the Job with Susanne Felder
Grant Writing Revealed with Jana Jane Hexter
It’s fun to look back over the year’s work!
Do you know the movie that “I gotta have me my posts & shows” is a reference from? Private message me. If you get it right you can pick a book from the 30 I have been given by Nonprofit Radio guests. First to message me privately gets the biggest selection to choose from, and so on. Postage is on me!
You have my best wishes for a Happy New Year!
Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%
I Love Our Sponsors!
Deni Elliott: The Ethics of Asking
Professor Deni Elliott from the University of South Florida edited the book “The Ethics of Asking.” When have you got an ethical issue in fundraising and how do you resolve it? How helpful are the ethics professional codes?
We’ll talk about examples from the book and answer your questions. Use the #NonprofitRadio hashtag on Twitter, the Facebook page or this blog post to leave a question.
Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.
You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.
If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.
When and where: On Fridays at 1pm Eastern: Talking Alternative Radio
You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.View Full Transcript
Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:05:29.304Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2013…11…168_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20131115.mp3.465160462.json
Path to text: transcripts/2013/11/168_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20131115.txt
Hello, it’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. Oh feels good, very good to be back in the studio after three weeks hiatus from the studio. Oh, i hope that you were with me last week. I’d go into ischemia if i learned that you had missed getting to the next level. Lawrence paige nani is the author of the non-profit fund-raising solution based on his work as an executive director and fund-raising consultant, he had proven strategies to get you to the next level of fund-raising revenue this week, it’s the ethics of asking professor denny elliot from the university of south florida edited the book the ethics of asking when have you got an ethical issue in fund-raising and how do you resolve it? How helpful or the professional ethics codes? We’ll talk about examples from her book and take your questions. If you’re listening live, you can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio on tony’s take two five reasons to promote the ira roll over now i’m very pleased to welcome to the show durney elliott she is a director and professor. In the department of journalism and media studies at the university of south florida st petersburg, she holds the point there. Jamison chair in media ethics and press policy and is the campus on buds. She’s written more than one hundred and ninety articles and book chapters. That’s a hell of a lot hyre my bio, this the number of words i’ve written, this is very impressive. She has authored co authored, edited and co edited books, including ethical challenges, building an ethics tool kit, ethics in the first person and the kindness of strangers, philanthropy and higher education. Her writing and her thinking brings her to the show. Professor durney elliot, welcome. Well, thank you. Are you in florida? At the moment? I am yes. Enjoying the winter weather of southern florida. We’ve got the winter weather of southern florida appear in new york practically. Oh, that looks to warm up here. You do a lot of thinking about ethics and and fund-raising, um what? How can we distinguish ethics from long? I’m sorry. How going to sing? Which ethics from law? Law? Legal. Oh, from law. Yeah. You know, that’s an interesting thing. And i decided that i just do a lot of thinking about ethics in my position as department head i’m involved in fund-raising and one way or another to bring some sort of needed resource is into the department, and as i ran too, ethics centers it when a dartmouth and one of the university of montana, sometimes i once felt like a combination of smoke and mirrors. I’m pretty familiar with the day to day in down and dirty part of fund-raising too, so it’s not just a matter of thinking about it, but it’s a matter of thinking about what what one is doing in practice and how it differs from the law is that in philantech p and fund-raising blank with most of the other areas in our lives latto develop law defines a minimal standard that, you know, if you drop below that minimal standard, that you could be held accountable by by statute, generally for your actions. But ethics asked you to think beyond that ethics, asi to think about what’s the right thing to do in a hole. Fear of what ethically permitted actions the law is much narrower, as as you’re saying, there are lots of things that are legal, but wood transgress ah, standard system of ethics, i think yes, sir, my my favorite example is, is just a really straight for everyday example for all of us and that’s it. Now, if you think about about truth telling and lying, you can count pretty much on one hand the situations in which the law prohibits you from lying. You know, you can’t lie on your on your income tax forms and you can’t lie when you’re i know a witness on stay on the stand in court, but but for the most part, we’re pretty honest people. If somebody stopped me on the street and asked me, you know what time it no, it says, according to my my smart phone, i’m going to tell them the truth about the time is i know it’s a baby, i’m going to be truthful with my students and with my friends and colleagues and that’s all in the realm of ethics that no, that goes way beyond what the law requires me to do. Where does morality fit into this? Well, you know that that’s kind of a conversation, probably for maybe even a different kind of radio. Show in that er for more than two thousand years of western moral philosophy, we’ve been thinking systematically about the nature of how it is that people should and should not treat one another. Uh, the word ethics comes from the greek jessica, um, meaning custom or convention, or how we expect people to treat us and the word moral comes from mores again, the latin word for custom or convention and how we expect people to act. And so, you know, i guess what i’m saying is fundamentally there’s really not a difference between least between how i will be using today ethics and the word ethics and the word morals. But that was some people say, oh, well, morals has to do with religion or sex and ethics is what you do in the workplace. I spend a lot of my time trying to integrate our lives and make sure that that i can help people think about how to be the same good person, regardless of what role they happen to have on the moment. And so i tend not to make an arbitrary distinction between morals, morals and ethics. Some professors have over or some philosophers have over the past two thousand years and some haven’t okay, well, when we have those people on there were still living than they can make that distinction, but okay, thank you. And you’re and the topic of the book, the ethics of asking that we’re talking about is, is, uh, your concerns about how fundraisers persuade people to give, right? Yeah, i think that that that when we talk about fund-raising or actually let’s even talk just about the act of giving of donating one’s extra resource is note to create public good as that person sees it, that act is super auditory act it’s ah, it goes beyond what somebody is minimally required to do. And so i think that that when we are working with people who are doing acts that are above and beyond what is minimally respected, explore other assembly expected of folks in private and public life, that there are special considerations on dh special obligations that folks have toward the givers toward the folks who are donating. Okay, um, and we’ll talk about some of those special obligations. How does a person who is a fund-raising professional i know that they are facing something that is an ethical issue. Well, first of all, i think it was the following. Okay, well, first of all of us, everyday face and we generally don’t think about it because we don’t have to, i don’t have to think about it, he’s my example of the stranger asking for time or directions, i don’t have to think about, oh, do i want the light of this person or not? Of course, i’m just going to tell him the truth. And so i think that that’s the only time that ethical issues sort of come to our consciousness or awareness, is when we’re feel like we’re caught between loyalties or caught between expectations are caught between doing something that seems best for our personal self versus doing something that seems better for another, okay, and in those conflicts of loyalties, that could be us as individuals, as you said, or could be, our institutions also conflict, right, right institutions and what may be best for a donor, right? Fundraisers have an interesting complexity of obligations. Ah, fundraisers when my fund-raising role as department chair, for example, i have obligations to the department and to the university as a whole. But at the same time, when i put myself in a position of of trying to extract ueno rie sources from people who don’t, who aren’t required to give them to me or to the university, to the department, i i take on new and special obligations to them as well. All right, we’re going to talk about some of these obligations, et cetera. We take our first break, and when we come back, durney elliot and i will continue talking about the ethics of asking hang in there. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our coaching and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe. Right groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who wants a go what’s? Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com. For details. That’s. Ivory tower radio. Dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You should know that we are sponsored by two companies, responded by rally bound, which is peer-to-peer fund-raising for runs, walks and rides and also welcoming new sponsor t brc cost recovery. Getting your money back from phone bill errors and omissions and i have a little more to say about both of them toward the end. Um, denny, you don’t mind if i call you danny wright is not to be professor elliot does it? No, denny is fine. Tony. Thank you. That you edited this book. How how does that work with you? Everybody else does all the rating, and then you just say we need some commas and paragraph breaks. How does that work when you’re oh, i wish i think it would look like actually, after editing some books and writing some books on co authoring some books, i i’ve decided that that actually being sole author of a book is probably the easiest route out of all of those. How does this work? Yeah, well, with editing a book, basically. Ah, the editor, you know, is in charge of the overall theme and the big idea of the book, as you know, an ethics of asking. There are a variety of chapters on different aspects of fund-raising, including plan giving and prospect research and and, uh, friendraising, i think, is what i call it, but the right and so as editor, i was sort of in charge of the overall idea finding the right people, teo, to write or collaborate with me on specific chapters and ah, and then actually, the tough part is getting them to get things done on deadline, and then no writing the writing, rewriting and revising chapters so that there was, you know, kind of a flow to the book so that it feels like the chapters go together even though they were written by different people with different backgrounds and different ideas. Okay, i did get that feeling alright. So that’s your responsibility as the editor, i thought, thea, i thought the company that i thought the book publisher would do that for, you know, that’s you no book publishers don’t do too much these days except actually get them out and with any luck to a little marketing. Okay, um, we’re this fund-raising that we’re talking. About fund-raising is essentially building relationships, so your concerns they’re around how or some of your concerns around how professional fundraisers are going about that. Yeah, you know, and that that happens in so many different levels. I’m thinking, all right, for example, was planned giving that no, i most fundraisers would really like to tap into, uh, into funders who have an opportunity to buckley’s states or, you know, some of substantial, uh, capital or or property, and that is usually brokered by by an external third party. You know, an investor, an attorney, somebody who is both represents the interests of the giving client as well as works with split with potential sites for the gift. And so, you know, hell of what the relationship is between the organization that serves to benefit and the the middleman, the third party there is often a point of conflict prospects. Research can can be a an ethical issue in that i know from, uh, from my days not just at this institution, but other institutions of higher education that i never met with a potential donor without having a whole dossier on that on that donor andi on what are development office had decided the person was capable of giving on much personal information regarding that person, and and i always felt a little uneasy in that it was not clear to me. I mean, it was clear to me that that that as an agent on behalf of the organization, i certainly shouldn’t say mr so and so, you know, i don’t know if you are aware that i’m aware of, you know, of your three divorces, et cetera, et cetera, you know, i mean, i knew better than to do that, but at the same time, i thought, you know, what would he think if he knew that i had all of this information on him and was just not telling him that i had it? So that’s the prospect research level, and then there is the relationship level? Aziz aziz, you know, people give to people, and so the idea of building a relationship with potential givers is an important piece of it. But i think it’s really easy for for potential givers to misunderstand the intentions of a fundraiser, i think it’s easy for fundraisers to move into what i would call a seduction phase and that may or may not be true sexual seduction, but but the but the move from fund-raising where the giver potential giver and the development person are both working with common interests for the organization is a different matter, i think, ethically speaking, than a situation in which the fundraiser is trying to woo the potential. Geever wow, there’s so much there that you just laid out planned giving is the consulting that i do and have done for sixteen years, prospect research way have a regular contributor on the show. We talked about prospect research once a month, maria simple and the relationships you know, that is hitting home because i’ve been a fundraiser for sixteen years and buy-in planned giving you no, you deal with people who are often in their seventies eighties and often we don’t or widowers, um and, you know, sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s hard, i mean, i’ve been, i guess let’s talk about the last of the three things that you just laid out that’s, the one that hits the home it’s almost poignantly for me. Bonem you know, i’ve been in in lunch situations i don’t like to i don’t like to meet prospects over dinner and andi, i know that we’re going to talk about language, and that term prospect is a little off putting to you, and we’ll get to that. So i’ll say so. I’ll adopt your language on dh say i don’t like to meet donorsearch prospect, potential donors over dinner. It’s just something you know, that evening hour just feels like it’s over there over the line from a sow, but i do like to intimate yeah, that’s right? Dinner is more intimate can be and you wantto eliminate any possibilities of that. So always lunch. But i do like doing over meals. I do like meeting latto potential donors over meals and clients over me like that because there’s a shared were sharing, we’re sharing a space were sharing a meal we might depending on the person we might actually be sharing an appetizer sometimes that’s not too often, but sometimes so there’s that sharing of the physical space and the and the activity around at the other physical space also it’s a flow that we all know, we all know that the server is going to bring water and then i’m going, i’m going to always ask for water with no ice because that’s my, you know, so, but once we get that over, then the server is going to leave us with the menus, and we’re gonna have a few minutes and then we know the servers going to come back, and then the stuff is going to bring the starters, and then the servers going toe clear those and bring the entree and we’ll, you know, we’ll have about five minutes or seven minutes or so between the starters and the entree starters ending in the entree. So there’s a there’s a a common understanding of the flow, as well as the sharing of the space and sharing of the meal, right? And what? And actually one of the things that i’m hearing you say in this and if you don’t mind sort of picking this a part of it, but the but there are a couple of things that’s going on that are going on there, that when you’re in a situation in which you’re, you’re asking some buddy to do something that they don’t have to do, which would be a potential donor, that that one of the things that that you’re that you’re doing is setting up a scene that has a comfortable and known flow in ritual, and so the idea is that is that is that you don’t have neither you nor the potential donor have to think about the context, and so it creates comfort and and i’ll say it shared intimacy in the fact that you’re both comfortable with that. Now, if you’re meeting somebody over a meal who is coming at at this from from a different culture where it may be that that the rituals are not quite the same or a little at odds, um, it would be fun and exciting, but it’s going to be a different feel than something where you know, where you’re meeting with somebody from your same culture and where you know that the ritual is is well known. The other thing about meeting over a meal is that there is something no metaphorical and symbolic about the idea of eating, of nourishing one another. If you’re picking up the check, you are certainly nourishing, you know, you’re feeding that that person and that that is, um it is a highly symbolic act of, of nurturing and caretaking and so what you’re what you’re doing is showing the potential donor that that you’re going to take good care of her, you know, in the process of this transaction, you’re also making a very strong point that this is not it’s, not a business meeting. I mean, if i need to sit down with somebody and i know that there’s something difficult to talk about a meal is really not the place to do that well, okay, now, something difficult that requires privacy, right? Although i would say in new york, i know some restaurants that have quiet spots but still might still the potential donor or the donor, but i might even be thanking someone, so it might not be asking someone to consider gift, but i might actually be thanking someone on behalf of the client, but but, yeah, there are situations where i wouldn’t but yeah, and if it’s, if i know it’s gonna be a difficult conversation, then i wouldn’t do it in any public place restaurant otherwise, but i think you can do business. You said it’s, not a business contacts, but i think you can do business over a meal. You don’t think so. Handed business over a meal, but it’s a different but it, but it creates a different kind of of interaction and different kind of relationship. I’m just as an example, if i have a graduate assistant to or a graduate student who is obsessing over her thesis at the moment and this in a tough spot, i’m very likely to take her for a cup of coffee and we’ll sit and have a cup of coffee and talk about the situation, but just the fact that i’ve gotten her, you know, in a company in a comfortable place, i’m nourishing her, giving her, you know, getting her a cup of coffee, and we’re sharing that that sustenance together is going to create kind of an openness and a readiness that is different than if i’m meeting with a student about a problematic grade in my office, you know, there’s that i’m creating a different context, and so when i want a student to sort of relax and the opens and, uh, you know, i have be more ready to listen to what i have to offer. I’m going to feed them something? Yeah, okay, that’s what i’m suggesting you’re doing. With potential donors, yeah, you’re suggesting that i’m duplicitous that i’m no, no, okay, i know it sounds like i’m a little like i’m a little devious, this is no, okay, i mean, i do think that fund-raising get get friendraising gets devious, and i really would like to talk about that specifically, but don’t take it since i’m not a marine, and i know i’ve been called that for some devious, no, but but it sounds like you’re suggesting that some people do it for a different reason than the reasons i’m suggesting i do it. Actually, i’m suggesting that you’ve got all the right instinct. What i’m saying is that this is some of your behavior, so wait say that again, i’m sorry. What say it again? I don’t know what i’m saying is you have all the right instincts, the fundraiser that you want to get the potential donors someplace where the person feels relaxed and comfortable sharing something with you and is getting something from you, which which which automatically that creates a response of giving back? Yeah, that’s the part that i don’t think of the that i’m giving to them really with the organisation’s. Dollars? I’m not the one personally picking up the check, but that’s the part i’m not thinking of that i’m giving to them so they should be giving back. I think this, you know, does this come down to character? Some people might some fundraisers might take people out for meals with that intention with that thought that i’m giving to them, they need to give back so it doesn’t just come down to personal character. How s it? No, i excited. I don’t think so, because and i think and i think that what you’re saying is is that you do it just because you’re a naturally good guy, which i certainly believe you are and that and that that’s a matter of character. Where is people who do this intentionally to manipulate the donor? You know, get the donor glass wine letter, you know, feel, relax and, you know, and so on that maybe there’s something that shows less character in that i would say that every phone great fundraiser has the responsibility to think about how every professional act is perceived and or is likely to be understood by the potential giver that’s very helpful, i think. We have we have just a couple minutes before, before we take another break, i would. We solicited questions from listeners, and we got a bunch. I’m goingto i’m going to throw one at you from that we got from facebook. This is kelly on facebook. You’re in the middle of a capital campaign, and the organization’s plans change. Your executive director thinks the changes are no big deal. Do you notify donors who committed funds to the original plan or follow the executive director’s lead, which would be keep it quiet. Well, first of all, i think that i would wonder about an organization that that changes something significant in a kapin radcampaign midstream that no one hopes that a campaign doesn’t get announced until about fifty percent of the money is raised or pledged, and that no, that that pretty much every every detail has been tested out. Ah, in-kind on a variety of audiences first, but but okay, but so you find yourself in that situation, i think that that that any donor that has made a contribution that if the, uh, thean tense abila donation can’t be met, that there is unethical and probably in most places, a legal obligation to make it clear to the donor how things have changed and obviously moving forward, you need to be honest about where things are now and where they’re going. We’re going to take a break when we come back. Tony’s take two got some live listener love and more conversation about the ethics of asking with durney eliot, stay with us e-giving didn’t think dick tooting good ending things, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving get in good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! Hi, i’m ostomel role and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour eleven a m we’re gonna have on shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a m on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. So glad to be back in the studio because i can send live listener love new york, new york, new bern, north carolina rest in virginia, houston, texas live listener love out to u k beck is checking in we got montreal and palma role maybe i pronounced that very badly, but you’re in quebec if your income back and you’re not in montreal. Yeah, that’s the name that’s the year that yours is the town that i’m trying to pronounce. Welcome, of course we’ve got listeners in china chung ching shanghai ni hao, seoul, korea always checking in always appreciative of korea annual haserot and there’s more live listener love coming tony’s take to my block this week is five reasons to promote the ira roll over now for your donors and potential donors who are seventy and a half years or older. This ira gift opportunity ends on december thirty first. It’s been extended a couple of times, but i wouldn’t bet on congress for any purpose, including charitable giving being extended, so i’m not too optimistic that this would be extended again. So let’s assume i’m assuming with all my clients that it’s going to end on december thirty first. It’s. A very easy way for donors who are the right age to make their year end gift to you. It’s. Very easy to promote, and i’ve got promotion ideas on the block. It’s also easy for donors to execute. They just fill out a simple form that there are a custodian, has. All they need is your organization name, address and tax i d number and that’s, part of what makes it so easy for you to promote. Not a lot of explanation. If you have potential donors who are the right age, i suggest you work the ira e-giving opportunity into your year end fund-raising plan and there’s a lot more detail on that. On my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, that is tony’s. Take two for friday, fifteenth of november, the forty fifth show of this year. Denny, do you mind if we take another listener question? Of course not. This came from booster advisor on twitter. What are your thoughts on hosting fund-raising event for people you don’t know who experienced a tragedy booster advisor, the person maybe thinking about maybe people in the philippines or something like that, any issues around raising money for people who you don’t know who you know of suffered i, uh, you know, and i’m not exactly sure what’s behind the question, so that may take a couple of different stabs at it, i think it’s fine to raise raise funds for people who have experienced trauma, traumatic events, wherever they are in the world, and i i think that that there are often questions about how those funds are being managed both in country as well as in the process of getting them from donors here. So i mean, so assuming that that the management details are worked out, i don’t see a problem with doing that. Uh, so i guess i’m kind of searching for what other? What, what other ethical issues there might be? Okay? You don’t you don’t really see this as that much of ethical. Issues, i mean, that the way the medal i see that the management problem management and legal in terms of management of funds that are intended for charitable purposes, the law has a fair amount to say about that, okay, right, right and well, and i know i’ve done not very popular work on breast cancer charities and how how money money is, well, how it doesn’t support services that are being implied, although maybe not, and not specifically said, and how, uh, breast cancer charity websites make it very easy donate and very difficult to find services. So the, you know, i think that that that one can raise money legitimately for any number of things. But i think that the process of fund-raising encourage an obligation to the potential donors that that money is going to be managed appropriately as the donor’s intended, and that the donors are very clear on what percentage of the money is actually going towards the charity as compared to take administrative cost. Talk about this use of the term prospect which, as i mentioned you, you have you have a chapter in the book devoted to language. What is it about that? Term that turns you often, and you prefer a potential donor. Well, it sounds like mining on, and i think that that when we, when we separate people by a label, whether we call them human subjects, i also do a lot of writing on research ethics and when we refer to people as human subjects that we’re putting them in a class that’s different from, um, no, those of us who are doing the research, those people who are actually doing the work and when we talk about potential people who are potential donors as prospects that that again, we’re setting them off it’s been in the class that that makes it easier to do things to them that we wouldn’t do to our appears for our family members are so sort of objectifies them exactly there no longer people were going that farm, and wei will know that there’s still people on? Yeah, i mean, like i was thinking of your human human subjects, we’re not referring to them as people were medical researchers going them human subjects, but in fund-raising i don’t know, i think, were warmer people over here on the fund-raising side than the medical. Well, you know, and be really honest, a lot of the work that i’ve done on on problems with charities and nonprofits and social service agencies start with the premise, but when people think that that they’re doing good things because they’ve got a really good and that they’re working towards that is raising money for an important cause that that that’s when the warning bell should begin to go off because we knew organizations traditionally don’t take a careful look at charities or fund-raising because, you know, it all sounds like it should be warm and fuzzy and the thing and it’s good people doing good stuff for the good of society. I mean, how many goods can you get in one sentence? Now, i believe that that people who do development work and i believe that people who work in non-profit tend to be pretty good people because they’re not in it for the money, so i didn’t appreciate that, but, you know, but it’s, the whole path to hell is paved with good intentions. That gets to be a problem that when folks think that they’ve got a really important end that are really important, you know? Cause that they’re trying to support sometimes they then the rules just because they know how, how good and important the causes that they’re working for. It’s it’s kind of an ends justify the means argument there’s a line in the movie the big chill that rationalizations are more important than sex try to get through the week without a good rationalization. You’re s o yeah, stretching the rules for a very good cause. When we’re talking, maybe about you mentioned breast cancer or hunger, we owe our working with disabled it’s it’s it seems pretty easy to do right well and and let me know you had said something before break about about whether i was at saying that you’re a devious, which i wasn’t in that case, but but let’s talk about deception for a minute, just because this is one of those areas where in my work over the years with with development folks and, well, fundraisers from from various sectors, not just higher education that excuse me, start that, that this is one of those areas where people think, okay, they’ve got a potential donor, and i’ll just bring an example that that just comes to mind from a capital campaign is a matter of fact. Some some years ago, so there was a ah a ah, a donor potential donor providing a whole lot of money for for a university to have a building built that would carry her her husband’s name, her dead husband’s name. And you know, and that was great. That was all. Everyone agreed completely with that. But this woman also really, really wanted a family fountain in a particular spot on campus. Well, they, uh the that the fundraiser working with the that actually they were more than one fun, but the development people who were working with this potential duitz donor i knew that in the no long term scale of things, that that where this woman one of the fountain was not going to be was not going to last more than about ten years, because if you look down the line, you know, there were other buildings that were going to go up on campus and this pristine spot that she loved and her husband had loved. I was not going to be that christine spot anymore due to the age of the donor the folks at the university this decided that that this particular donor would most probably be long gone by the time you know, the campus changed in a way that would make her unhappy. And so they decided that it was safe just to let this this potential donor believe what she wanted to believe. I find that unethical because, again, this woman is it was doing something that a super aga, torrey it’s something that is that is ethically ideal to use different language, she’s doing something that she doesn’t need to do. And i think that there’s a special obligation of the organization that would take her money, um, to make sure that she knows and really understands everything that she would find relevant to the giving of her gift. Damn, i think i would i don’t know that one that one really shakes me. I i would like to think i would quit over that if i was on that development team, and we were told not to reveal that the fountain isn’t going to last more than ten. Well, but why? I mean, she’ll never know the difference. It’s just wrong you she why tryto be more a little more articulate, that’s just wrong because she’s making a gift under under a set of assumptions and conditions that that the other side knows are false. That’s why it’s it’s almost. I don’t know if it rises to the level of legal fraud in the definition of fraud on statutes, but i know it gets pretty close to me if it does. If it doesn’t exceed that it doesn’t cross that line, i think that’s ah touching on fraudulent well, actually, and the the and the way that it was laid out in this particular situation. I mean, thie the building was going up with the husband’s name on it, and it was going to be a lovely building. And i know a lovely and permanent mark on campus for sure the fountain was by far, you know, a smaller, you know, seemingly incidental, not very important gift, at least from the university’s point of view, and they know they were going to put the fountain in. They just knew that the that the woman thought that the fountain would live on forever. You know what? Where they’re understood it wouldn’t yeah, they know something that the woman doesn’t that’s. That’s that’s ah, meaning in contract terms to me that’s a material term that the organization is omitting now i’m taking it out of the ethical and putting it in the legal. But to me that’s a material term that they’re omitting like to me, that would be the same as you’re renting an apartment and there’s is there’s lead paint on the walls and you don’t reveal that that’s that’s. Okay, gideon, this scenario because it’s the same kind of issue that comes up but it but it’s a very different set of facts. So we have another donor and the the ah ah, the donor, you know, wants to give money for the university, and it understands to be kind of old school and, uh, really doesn’t believe in co ed dormitories. Now, for any number of reasons, the university knows that no, that before long, even though there’s no specific thing on the books right now. But before long, all the all the dorms on the university will be co ed. And so no again does that is that information that has to be given to the the potential donor, you know, it’s it’s a change that that every university is making and some folks, in fact, some people at the particular university i’m thinking of. I said, well, you know, we can’t deal with all of the prejudices of all of our donors. And we can decide what’s relevant for the donor to know and what’s not. We got to go away for a couple of minutes more. Danielle. It stays with us, and i hope that you do, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Dahna podcast pleasantries going out to everybody who is listening to the podcast, wherever that might be from whether it’s, itunes or or elsewhere. There’s podcast dot d lots of people listening to the podcast in germany wherever you might be listening to the podcast pleasantries out to you more live listener love pompano beach, florida tustin, california welcome, andrx, les france i hope i did that well, bonsoir we’ve got germany listening live you’ve got kuwait listening live you got the netherlands listening live and i did come back yes live listener love to all our live listeners podcast pleasantries wherever and whenever you might be listening to the time shifted show denny, i’ve got some more, some more this inner questions that came in i got one from this’s from rory asking about corporate branding. How much of a charity’s brand is it ethical to sell? She puts selling quotes to accompany we might be comfortable with logos and branding at fund-raising events. But to corporate logos have a place in, say, university classrooms. Yeah, i think that’s ah, that’s. A really good question. And i would come down to me particularly are now just at ticket from hyre. Education, although i think we’re going extrapolated from that. But i think that the core mission of an organization and i know that’s what sound naive, but i think that that should remain pure in a certain way. That is that one should be able to conductor the mission of the university without having corporate brands on everything associated with the mission. But that is okay, teo, to brand things that air external here’s an example at my university in my department next year, we are starting a new graduate certificate program and food writing and photography. Now we are not selling the sponsorship of that program, but at but we do have an annual food conference of no culinary of communication conference that’s associated with that program that’s open to the community every year, a half day seminar and that we definitely are seeking sponsors for and so if there is, i think, a sense of ancillary sponsorship, but now, but it gets complicated because if we look at breast cancer charities no, it again, a zone area of where i’ve done some particular research that we have situations in which which some breast cancer charities exists because of their, you know, their corporate sponsorships and the relationship between the charity and the corporate sponsor becomes so tight that individual donors are often left out in terms of not understanding the importance of people, giving in a true philanthropic way that is now just to promote the common good. And that sometimes folks in need of service is that air being touted by the charity get left out as well. Have a related question about taking donations from organizations that are not not in direct contradiction to your mission but still have or may be perceived to have negative impact on society, the person asks says there are some cases that are obvious, like cancer charities not taking money from tobacco companies. But what about navigating gray areas on dh like arms manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies? She also suggests oil, oil pipeline companies are there right ones issues around us. Yeah, i think that that again gets problematic and the mawr complicated or society gets the more problematic it is. I do appreciate cancer charities that that no won’t take tobacco money, for example, but at the same time if they take pharmaceutical money from certain pharmaceutical companies, pharmaceutical companies are owned by chemical companies, which released carcinogens into the air. And so the question is of like, well, how far back are you willing to go? And i think that really what it comes down to for many organizations, is that it’s a matter of public perception, that if there’s no, if we can’t cancel charity doesn’t want to take money directly from eddie ah, now an organization that’s known to be cancer causing. But if you take it back one or two generations in terms of of no corporate ownership that nobody knows, i think that that’s not okay, um, i think that, um, that there should be limits in terms of of, um, of no donations that people take, but i think that that needs to be stated, because when we come to individual donors in my experience, uh, fundraisers and charities are quite willing to take money from folks, whether they, you know, just want to give out of the goodness of their heart or whether they’re giving for the tax break or whether they’re giving to, you know, re pay back some private since so so if an organization is going to refuse money on the basis of, uh, of how that money was made. I think that that needs to be stated clearly and transparently. We have to leave it there. Durney eliot, director and professor in the department of journalism in media studies at the university of south florida st petersburg durney thank you so much for me. Yeah. Funnel by your lunch. It’s been a real pleasure. No, no, no, i’m not i’m not putting myself in a compromising situation. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next week, karen wooster is executive director of wreaths across america. They have grown their volunteer support enormously by being hands off and supportive. We’re gonna talk about you’re building that volunteer base. Maria simple is back. She’s, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor. We’ll talk about the disk assessment tool to figure out whether your potential donors are dominant influencing steady or cautious disc. Personally, i’d like to be all for those. So i wonder if i can manipulate the assessment. Our sponsors rally bound is a sponsor. They make simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising software friends asking friends to give to your cause. You get a discount as a non-profit radio listener you can find them at rally bound dot com or just call and talk to joe mcgee he’s the person who will answer your questions and give you advice on setting up your campaign. And i’ve met their ceo. I’ve told you before shmuley pinson, you can reach them as i said, rally bound dot com or triple eight seven six seven nine zero, seven six welcome to t brc cost recovery our newest sponsor, youself rabinowitz, is ceo there, so we have ah, sponsors yourself wuebben with smelly pinson. Sam labbate liebowitz on the board muzzle toph, i love this. Yo steph! What he does is we’ll go over your past phone bills looking for mistakes, and when he finds those mistakes and he does over ninety percent of the time, then he fights the phone company to get your money back, talking about errors, services you didn’t order and what all you also finds is well above market pricing and gets you the money back and you only pay him if he actually succeeds. If he actually gets cash back, otherwise you don’t pay him. I’ve known yourself for close to ten years and i have many times referred. Friends and clients to him, and i’m very comfortable referring him to you, it’s, tb, r si dot com or two one, two, six, double four, nine, triple xero, which could also be six, four, four, nine thousand, but i like two one two, six, double four, nine triple xero. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. This outstanding music you’re hearing is by scott stein. I hope you’re gonna be with me next friday, once, two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. E-giving denting, tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sexy body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday said. Known eastern time to learn timpson. Juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Sold every thursday ad men in new york times on talking alternative that calms. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Dahna i’m the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent fund-raising board relations, social media, my guests and i cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s wanto to eastern talking alternative dot com. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Dahna hyre