And welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite hebdominal podcast. I’m traveling this week, so sorry about the echoey sound, low quality laptop mic. I’ll be back in the studio next week. I’m glad you’re with us. I’d come down with bacillary angiomatosis. If you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate, with what’s coming. Hey Tony, here’s what’s coming. Be human and be yourself for best fundraising. Messy and authentic. That’s how Brad Tun wants you to come to your fundraising relationships for best outcomes. Be genuinely curious about people with a dose of strategy, and you’ve got his formula for success. A retired hip hop recording artist, he has great storytelling advice. He also shares how LinkedIn is vastly underutilized by nonprofits as a relationship builder and what you can do to excel there. This is an especially fun and spirited conversation. Brad is an account executive in nonprofit technology at Instill. On Tony’s take 2. Tales from the gym. Rob, PhD. Here is, be human and be yourself for best fundraising. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome Brad Tun for his first appearance on nonprofit radio. Brad is an account executive in nonprofit technology at Instill specializing in helping chief development officers and frontline fundraisers bring clarity and simplicity to major gift work. Brad’s approach is rooted in a deep belief that fundraising is fundamentally about human connection. Oh my God, are we, are we simpatico on that? You’ll find the company at Instill.io. And you’ll find Brad very active on LinkedIn. Brad Tunn, welcome to Nonprofit Radio. Uh, that’s the, this is the, the greatest introduction I have ever heard. I, I am like, I’m ready to run through a brick wall right now. So, so thank you for this. All right, I’m glad the enthusiasm is, uh, infectious. Absolutely. We have spent a lot of time getting to know each other on LinkedIn. And we got connected by a mutual friend. Uh, I mean, in terms of your philosophy, that’s what I was not aware of. I see you on LinkedIn a lot. We’re gonna talk about LinkedIn, how you believe it is vastly underutilized. We’re gonna get there and how personal you are on LinkedIn, but we got connected around your belief in. Uh, the humanity of fundraising that, which I said, uh, I had to, I had to digress from your bio. I don’t even give the guy a complete bio without me interjecting my opinion. It says is how, this is how lackluster the host is like the, the, the guy can’t stop but inject his opinion. He doesn’t even give the, uh, a complete bio of the guest before he’s interjecting his own editorial comments. All right, but no, we do connect over that humanity messy. Authentic, present. All right, we’re gonna talk about all that, um. Uh, Share, go deeper. Share your philosophy about, uh, fundraising about major gift work. Yeah, absolutely. I, I think, I think fundraising is about connection, not activity, and Many, most of the fundraisers I talked to in 2025, almost 2026, are buried in reports and systems that don’t reflect the real state of their donor relationships, right? The, those, those in between the lines. Um, those soft skills, those things that really make people tick, and I am a firm believer, I’m a firm believer in a lot of things because I’m stubborn. The red-headed, uh, stereotypes are true. Um, but I’m a firm believer that connection and, and human relationships start with a deep-rooted sense of genuine curiosity, where I can seek to understand, not seek to respond. Um, and, and really be focused on what is the why of this person. And, and as you know, Tony, I, I’ve been listening to the podcast a long time. Fundraising is storytelling, and I know every nonprofit leader knows that at their core, it’s storytelling. But it’s, it, it, people don’t give because they want to support the organization, right? People give because they see themselves in your story. Whatever your story is that you have hopefully shared with them, they see themselves as a part of that. And, and we have to be able to give them that opportunity to join our story. Um, I’m gonna stop there or else I’ll ramble and that’ll be the end of it. Just hand over the mic. I’ll turn mine off. All right. Um, no, there’s so much, there’s so much there that I, you know, at all levels. I mean, that’s a high level, which is exactly what I asked you for. You know, I, I, I’m, I’m nodding, I’m smiling. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I’m just, I agree. Um, but we, we get this. I don’t idea this. fallacy that major gift officers and, and fundraisers generally need to present a certain way that we need to, there’s a facade. And if we’re not professional, if we’re not, Uh, you know, exact, that we’re gonna disappoint the, the donors or the prospects. We’re gonna disappoint the nonprofit that we, that we love, who, whose work we love, otherwise we wouldn’t be doing the fundraising for them. We’re gonna let them down if we don’t have the, the major gift persona. Cut that off at its knees, please. Yeah, I’m, I’m with you. Um, and, and this gets, uh, fundraising is life. It, it is. Um, and, and there’s a lot of parallels and, and things that I’ve learned the hard way through this experience, but all of those things you said, I, I need to present myself a certain way. I’m gonna let the prospect down. I’m not gonna get this major gift. I, I, I, I, it’s all rooted in Self-centered fear, right? It is, and, and, and I don’t mean that in an egotistical way, like I’m going in thinking I’m better than or anything like that, but I’m focused on myself. I’m worried about how I’m gonna be perceived. I’m worried about, am I gonna get what I want, which is a gift. What if I don’t? What if, what if, what if? Instead of a complete mindset shift where I’m focused on you. On you. And that’s where I get back to this sense of genuine curiosity. If I come into a conversation completely detached from any sort of outcome. I don’t control whether or not you give. I can’t, I can’t open up your wallet for you. I can’t make the wire transfer. I can’t. I have to let go of those outcomes. I, I, and, and, and detach. And I have to focus on you, the human being, and get curious because if I don’t, I’m not gonna actively listen and I’m gonna miss an opportunity for connection. And when we seek connection first, Amazing things happen that otherwise never, never would have. I was talking to somebody the other day and I, I can’t remember, but they’re like, I, my business is better than ever. And it, it got better than ever. When I started openly referring. People that came my way to other people in my industry because I knew they were a better fit for what they wanted to do. Right? I wasn’t, I wasn’t aligned, but I started making those referrals, right? Instead of trying to square peg round hole stuff. And then the universe for whatever reason, my business skyrocketed, right? It’s the same thing in fundraising. I think when we look at the human. And we’re messy, and like we talked about, and we’re imperfect. Yes, I wanna show up professional, right? I, I want to represent myself in the organization the right way. 100%. Yeah, like, yeah, you know, I’m gonna show up on time for the meeting or even early so I know I’m on time. You know, I’m gonna respond to messages, you know, we’re not talking about being messy like being messy, lackluster and a poor performer. We’re talking about being a, you know, a messy human being. Yeah, like, yeah, like. No. Here’s the, the, the secret is that no one, no one has life figured out. Not a single person, right? Like, can we just acknowledge that and just say how hard things are and how, how, how unpredictable things are? Do I want to, do I want to, um, Give a prospect the idea that my organization is unorganized and scrambling, and no, not necessarily, but at the same time, I can be transparent with what we need and why we need it without beating around the bush, without coming up with some You know, uh, my, my, my vocabulary is nowhere near the, uh, the level that yours is, Tony. But, but I, I can’t, I can’t come up with, right? I don’t need to come up with some overarching, incredibly creative way to say that we could use your support, and here’s why. Here’s what it would mean. Yeah. Right? Um, that’s what I mean by messy. It’s like, I’m not, I’m not gonna say this perfectly. And if you hear me ramble a little bit, it’s cause I get excited and I truly believe in what we’re doing. Like just level with people. Yeah, I love the excitement. When the passion comes through, it’s, it’s infectious. You know, I, uh, being Italian, I tend to wave my arms around or not, you know, and we’re doing this, and we, you know, we, we had, you know, our census was 15,000 patients on any given day in New York City or, you know, whatever. Can you imagine 15,000 patients? So, um, all right. So, yeah. Um, Honesty, you know, just honesty. Um, and when you do make a mistake, like I was saying, you know, you, you, you respond to messages. If you don’t, if you don’t respond, if you mess something up, just apologize. I’m sorry. I’m, the email went longer. I’m sorry it took me longer to get back to that email or that voicemail than, than I wanted and certainly than you wanted. I’m sorry about that. But let’s still meet. I, I still would like to meet you. I just, you know, I, I messed up, uh, answering a voicemail, but, but let’s still get together because this cause, you know, merits your, merits your attention. It happens. I, uh, it happens. I was messaging with, uh, a prospect of mine a couple of weeks ago. Um, and her name is Jamie, and I typed Jamie, um, and she called me on it. Which she had every right to do. And I responded immediately and just, you know, I think previously I may have got. Earlier in life, maybe defensive or gosh, she’s taking that a little too seriously. What’s the big deal? What’s the big deal? But immediately I let my guard down and I immediately, I immediately own it and say, Janie, first of all, my apologies. I can’t imagine how many times that happens to you. My last name is Tun, and you wouldn’t believe how many times people glance and they call me Tom because like, I don’t know how it happens, but it does, and I know what that, how frustrating that is. So I did, I apologize and Off to the races. And that’s a tiny, tiny example of just. Just, just show up. Just show up. People are, the bar has never been lower for human connection ever, ever. If we just show up, it, it’s, it’s amazing what happens. Yeah, human connection and, and customer service. That’s a great callout, the way, if you, if you, I think, I think the average customer service is crap. So we’re just asking you to be a little, you just have to be better than crap. You really do. I, I was, I’m, I, I got a, uh, I, I’ve tried out some new technology on my end, and I, uh, there was a bug with it, and I emailed support, and I know it’s an entrepreneur that’s running it. He’s doing everything, and he immediately emailed me back and said, I’m on it. That’s all I needed. Yeah, yeah. It took the rest of the day, but I didn’t care. I wasn’t sitting around wondering like what’s going on. Um, yeah, that responsiveness is, you’re right, that’s a good call out though. You talk about quality over quantity. Yeah. What do you, what, what do you mean by that? I think in the sense as it pertains to fundraising, it’s being intentional and reaching out to people as human. I think, um, I think people are so burned out over automation. Um, that’s not to say we don’t send out an end of year thank you email or something, you know, I’m, I’m not in, I’m not in the comms world. Um, I’m not saying that, but I, I, I think, I, I think there has to be intention around building real genuine relationships, um, and we’re about to be in 2026, and I continue to see, uh, we are gonna be when this, when this, we’re, we’re airing this in, in January, so it’s there you go, my apologies. It is 2026. It’s 2026. We’re there. We’re recording made it congratulations December, mid-December, yeah, um, we’re there and I still see. Donors not being thanked. Like, it’s unbelievable. It, it’s, and, and, and, and they’re, they’re not retained. Um, so by quality over quantity, what I mean is we gotta stop spraying and praying. We gotta stop trying to give our major gift officers portfolios of 34, 500 people. There is no way to manage those relationships effectively, none. And you’re doing yourself as an organization a disservice by thinking they can. Um, they may not tell you they can’t because they don’t want to disappoint you, development leaders, but they can’t. Um, and you’re gonna lose way more than you win. That’s what I mean by, by quality. What do you think is a normal, uh, reasonable, uh, prospect? Uh, prospect pool of responsibility. Yeah, my, uh, I’m gonna paraphrase here, but, uh, our VP of, uh, of, um, of, of partner success, Eric Franz, will, will get on me because I can’t remember the name of the law, but there’s a law out there with number of relationships you can actually as a human being, you, uh, and I can’t remember it. I’m terrible with that. 100 to 150 is the max. Like that’s, that’s it. That’s it. Um, if you’re, if you’re a leader and you’re having to. Uh, split your time, then it needs to be even smaller than that, um, but I’ve talked to, look, uh, I talked to major gift officers and major gift leaders all day every day, and you wouldn’t believe the number that are the numbers of portfolio sizes out there. 40, you see, you, you hear about 250, like 3, 250, 300 in the in the thousands sometimes in, in the thousands. Um, and, and, and managing touch, touch points with automations and, uh, it it lends itself to being reactive instead of proactive, right? Like I need to wait for someone to come to us or ask something or whatever, uh, to bubble up to me rather than being able to manage and, and build effective relationships, right? Yeah, over 150, uh, in a, in a, in a prospect portfolio, uh, prospect and donor. That is antithetical to what you and I are talking about. You can’t have human connection with more than, you know, whatever that law is that we don’t need a law, we don’t need the law. We just, it’s, we just know it’s common sense. I mean, there’s only so many, there are only so many relationships you can manage. And just to make it explicit, you know, people are, are. Falling off the, off the portfolio as time goes by, you know, the, the, the folks who you, uh, get to solicit solicitation for, and they say, no, you know, I’m just, I’m not at that level with this organization. I’m gonna, I’m gonna keep doing my, $50 a year or my $500 a year, but I’m, I’m not gonna get to the level that you asked me. Uh, I’ll, I’ll just continue. OK, well, that person then, however you define major gift in your port in your nonprofit, that person is no longer a major gift prospect. So they come off the, they come off the, that portfolio and another person joins them, join, joins the port. Portfolio doesn’t join them because they, they’re no longer in it. So, so the, the portfolio is, is evolving, but we’re not letting it get above the, the 150, which is what I’ve typically seen 100, 100, 100 to 150 max. Yep, you got it. Um, yeah, you got it. And, and, and I think, I think people that communicate back with you that they’re gonna stay at their level, that’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, I’m doing my job. That, that’s effective communication, and you never know what might help happen down the line, but I’m never gonna completely forget them. Maybe that goes to a different, a different department or a different, a different process, um, but we gotta, we gotta stick with engagement, and that, that’s any information is good, is helpful information. Absolutely. And, and you’re, you’re thanking them for all the giving that led to this solicitation. I mean, they’ve, they’ve been so loyal that you, you thought they would, well, you considered them a good major gift prospect. Turns out they, they, you were right. Your assessment wasn’t wrong, but that, it’s just not, they’re not at that level with your nonprofit. So then you move on, you know, as, as, as we’re talking about, but, but you’re grateful for the giving that brought them to the solicitation. And for their commitment to continue it. That’s right. Absolutely. And I do that. I do that, I, a lot in planned giving where I, I’ll solicit a gift in a will, most typically, but whatever type of planned gift, and the person said, you know, no, you know, my estate is for my children, or I do love the work, but not at that level, like to, to include you in my long-term, my, my estate plan or my retirement plan. But I’m, you know, I’ll, I’ll certainly keep up what I’m, what I’m doing, what I’ve been doing. You know, we thank you, thank you, because it, because all that giving brought us to this, to this conversation. So thank you for everything that you have done and that you just committed to keep doing it. Thank you. What a blessing transparency is. Yeah, absolutely. Let’s talk a little bit about, uh, Brad Tunn. You have, uh, you have a background. You have a very interesting background that drew me to you. This is what drew me to you on LinkedIn at first. I think I first found you through a comment and I clicked on the guy’s. Retired hip hop artist, yeah, that’s talk, talk, tell us, tell us about that work. Pretty standard life path, right, for so humble, red. I mean, doesn’t, didn’t everybody have a, have a, have a hip hop career? No. So, uh, I guess I, um. Yeah, I, I, I went to, to school. I went to, to Indiana University, uh, for sports marketing and management because, uh, the movie Jerry Maguire had come out and that’s what I wanted to do with my life, right? I wanna be Jerry Maguire. Oh yeah, um, so I had, I had a brief stint in the sports business world and found out very quickly that it was not for me for a variety of, of, of reasons, um. And um I was a, uh a single guy, no kids, living on my own, and didn’t really know what I wanted to do. Um, so I did what any rational human being would do. I had uh a, a, a, a small amount of money in a savings account, not much. I, uh, drained it, went to the local Best Buy, bought a bunch of studio equipment, and set up a, a, a studio in my apartment, my one-bedroom apartment, and embarked on what I had no idea at the time. Uh, would become an 8, 9-year career as a, as a hip hop artist. I released 4 albums. I toured, uh, I did shows. Um, I would work odd jobs on the side that I was overqualified for to help pay the bills because, you know, the, the Indiana hip hop money was not making anyone rich. Um, that’s not a huge hip hop market. It’s not, even with the intern, even with the intern. That, um, and it was phenomenal experience. It, it’s created so many life lessons for me. I, I can’t even begin to tell you, um, when I started, it was bad, Tony, like it was bad. The, the music was not good when I started, yeah, you’re just, I mean, what did you know from, what did you know from hip hop? I, I knew I loved to listen to it like I, and I. I think it was a very, a, a very, um, helpful emotional outlet. I loved the emotion behind it. I loved the underdog mentality. Um, you know, who were some of your influences? I may not know them, but who? Oh, I mean, so, I mean, I grew up in the 90s, so anything, uh, Tupac, Notorious BIG, Nas, Jay-Z, Eminem. I mean, everything that your parents hope and pray you don’t listen to as a teenager, right? I became, yeah, now I couldn’t speak to any of those lifestyles because I did not live them. However, that same type of, uh, I would say, uh, emotional outlet and, and therapeutic way of writing, uh, was great for me. And what I found out very quickly. Is that, man, the sky’s the limit when you really, really work hard. I mean, as simple as a lesson as that sounds, like, I was never the most talented rapper. I did get better, thank, thank God to everybody around, um, but I just outworked everyone and, and made connections and, and did things that people were scared to try to do and, uh, it opened up a lot of doors and I’ve carried that with me, like, and as a parent, I can tell my kids the same thing and really believe it, right? Um, it’s, so. Yeah, absolutely phenomenal, uh, experience, um, and it’s been, we still talk about it, uh, to this day. It, it’s, it’s huge. If, um, I’m sure in a, in a, in a closet somewhere in this house, there’s a case full of Brad Reel CDs still, uh, that went unsold from that era. So if anybody ever wants one, happy to ship it out. Nobody has CD players anymore. Listen, listen to. that that nobody has them. Well, you have the discs. All right, so you were Brad Real Real, R E A L, uh, yeah, that was it. Yep, yep, Brad that was it. All right, yeah, yeah. Is there, is there still some music online? There is, um, there is, uh, Spotify and, and all those streaming platforms. Uh, my last album is still out there. It was called, uh, Letters to the Editor. That was 2012. Uh, it’s still there. It’s still there. So go stream it occasionally, randomly, I’ll get a check in the mail for 17 cents from Apple. It’s great. It’s really great. Letters to the editor. Look at you appealing to the mainstream media in your final album. That’s exactly right. Maybe this media, maybe this medium isn’t the best one for me. I, I’m gonna try, I’m gonna try editorial. I’m gonna try op ed pieces. There you go. You got it. Um, did you do concerts? How big, like how, how big, how big venues? What, um, so, um, at the peak of it, I, uh, I opened for, and I don’t know if anybody know who these people are, but I opened for, uh, I played a show with Cypress Hill. I played a show with Wiz Khalifa and Cypress Hill. Cypress Hill is going insane. Insane in the membrane in the membrane. Insane in the brain. I remember them. And I played, uh, I played our amphitheater here in Indiana, um, in front, well, I played as the doors were opening. So the capacity of the venue is 12 to 15,000, but, you know, nobody was really there yet. But I was on the stage opening for Wiz Khalifa. Um, but for every one of those there were, you know, Tuesday nights at the local hole in the wall performing for the other rappers and their girlfriends, you know, in Bloomington, Indiana. There you go, plenty of shows in Bloomington, Indiana. So what’s the, what’s that feeling? All right, suppose there are, there’s several 1000. Suppose you got 5000 rap fans. Uh, you’re opening. OK, I understand your opening act, but still. You, you got, you’re bringing power. What, what does that feel like? Thousands of people moving to your words. I, I don’t even know where to, where to, how to describe it. There is no feeling in the world, even right now, just thinking about that. I, my juices just get flowing. Um, there is the adrenaline, the, like I just feel at, at home there. Um, it’s such an expression of, of art, and, uh, I took it very seriously. If people were gonna come out, I wanted to act, you know, bring the energy and, and make the The audience be a part of it. Um, but it’s like they say, right? I don’t, um, I’m a big sports guy and, and when like, when, when football players retire, they say it had nothing to do with, Sunday afternoons, right? When you saw me on the field on Sundays, it was Monday through Saturday that I couldn’t do anymore, you know, the, the grind, the practice, the, uh, I mean, I was, I was working 40 to 50 hours a week at a regular job to help pay my bills and I was doing hip hop for 40 to 50, 60 hours a week on top of that. Um, and it’s like, at some point, I started having kids and I was like, ah, Yeah, yeah, but the rush, the rush of the fans, the, the adrenaline, they’re moving to your words, they’re moving to you. They’re moving to you. Um, yeah, there’s something really cool, and I’ve taken that with me. Like I’ve never really had, um, public speaking. I do. Um, every now and then I’ll get in front of a group of people now, um, in different capacities, and, and, and I love it, and it’s all because of that. Like, it’s all because of that. And, uh, yeah, I, I’ve, I’ve really, really, really enjoyed, enjoyed that part of it. It’s time for Tony’s take 2. Thank you, Kate. I’ll say Happy New Year again. It’s uh it’s only the 2nd week of January, so I’ll I’ll throw in a happy New Year there, everybody. I’ve got a tails from the gym. This one’s uh revisiting Rob, the retired Marine, Semper Fi. Very interesting guy, as it turns out, I, uh, I’ve only ever overheard conversations with him. You’ll remember Rob is the guy who got the, uh, sourdough bread. From Kim. And other sordid stories about Rob, the, the retired Marine. December 5. I got chatting with him, you know, he, he had been talking about a Marine Corps reunion. That he was hosting, uh, it was the 250th anniversary. Uh, he was hosting it at a local restaurant that I’ve been to, and I’d been hearing about him. I’d hearing him talk about it for a few weeks, inviting folks. Um, and then I saw him in the men’s room, and it, I, it was a little awkward, you know, it was just the two of us, and so I, I, I don’t know, I felt, I felt awkward not saying anything. So, As we’re walking out of the men’s room, I, I, and, and we were leaving together. Um, we didn’t do anything in the men’s room together, which is just a coincidence that we were leaving together. I asked, how’d the party go, the Marine Corps reunion party. So we got talking. And Rob, uh, actually is doing his PhD in global policy. At the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. And he’s very near finishing his degree. Next month, he defends his PhD dissertation and all the research around it. That’s pretty impressive. Uh, a, a, a Harvard PhD, um, he has a master’s degree in North Africa and Middle Eastern studies. He did marine tours in Afghanistan, multiple tours. So this guy is, is, you know, he’s not only worldly, like well traveled, but a student of the world. His master’s degree in North Africa and Middle East, and he’s doing his PhD in global policy. Um, his PhD dissertation, I think it’s, uh, I think it’s called While We Were Sleeping or As We Were Sleeping. And it’s about. Failures in. American and Israeli. Policy over many years that led to the, um, the Israeli attacks. Um, by the, by the Palestinians, uh, in the Gaza Strip. So he studied that, you know, the, these technology, but also, um, military failures, political, I guess, I mean, I’m saying failures. I mean, it’s an analysis of all these factors that, um, I think essentially his thesis is that that these factors led to, Uh, the attack So, very interesting. And his daughter is a pediatric oncologist in New York City. So Rob, our, uh, our marine friend, um, Semper Fi, very interesting guy. Uh, and I haven’t had a chance to talk to him since. This is all, this is all in one conversation at the gym, and I haven’t seen him since. But I, I know his dissertation defense is coming up, so I’ll, I’m, I’m obviously gonna ask him about it when, uh, when I see him. Very interesting. Rob, PhD Rob. And I don’t think anybody else in the gym knows. I’ve never heard him talk about it. Interesting when you talk to people, right? That is Tony’s take 2. Kate. I’m proud of you for socializing for once in the gym. Oh, thank you. Usually you’re making people angry by stealing their spot or what. Mrs. Blood and Soil, that’s Val. Yes, yes, you’re right, um. Yeah, I, I reached out, uh, like I said, it was, it was a little, it just felt awkward walking out with the guy who I’ve seen dozens of times in the gym. So I chatted him. Yes, I, I opened the conversation. Thank you very much for being proud. We’ve got Beauco butt loads more time. Here’s the rest of Be Human and Be Yourself for Best fundraising with Brad Tun. So tie that into today’s work around this, this is, must be an influence on your, your storytelling ability. What, what, what can you, what can we take from, That experience of yours and, and convey it into our storytelling. Yeah, I think it’s all about, yeah, it’s, it’s about being vulnerable. It’s about, uh, self-discovery. It’s about being OK with what I don’t control, um, and the unknown, uh, and what that allows me to do as a human being is to really just, lean in and engage with life. If it’s fundraising, if it’s personal relationships, if it’s business relationships. I don’t have a sense of fear in what if, what if this doesn’t work out? What if By doing this, I don’t get to do something else. There’s none of these things that truly come up anymore. We all have real life things, right? We all have real adversity, real trauma, real things that happen, and I’m not talking about those. What I’m talking about is the everyday, um, when I’m able to just show up as, as truly myself and understanding that things are gonna work out the way they should. As long as I’m truly me. And whatever is meant for me will happen. That, I think that’s where the real lesson is, is. I can’t force, I can’t force life. Like I have to live life on life’s terms. I can’t force things to happen. Um, I can work hard. I can, I can show up on time, right? I can. I mean, I, I can get myself together. I can, I can do these things, absolutely. Doesn’t mean I don’t grind, doesn’t mean I don’t have goals, right? Um, but there’s something beautiful about Just just letting, letting go and stop trying to fight so hard. I don’t know if that’s a good response or not to what you were asking, but that’s kind of where my mind went with it. Well, it’s personal, it’s, so it is very good. It’s very, it’s very instructive. Um, you know, controlling, one of the things of many you just said, you know, letting go of what you can’t control. You, yeah, you said earlier, you know, you can’t control whether the donor is gonna make their donor-advised fund contribution that you’re soliciting or take out their wallet or, you know, whatever. You can’t control that. What you can control is, How, well, yeah, how you, you know, how you come, how you present, everything we’ve, everything we’ve been talking about. You can, you can control your own. Your own self and, and in being, in being your own self and just presenting as authentic just coming as authentic. I don’t even want to say presenting. It makes it sound like a presentation. Just come as you are. Come as yourself. Just come. And if I, and if I share, and I could, I could level with you if, if I’m an MGO and, and you’re a, you’re a prospect, I can say, Tony, I, I don’t know if, if your why and what you believe in aligns with what we do in our story, but here’s why I thought it might. And like, I may be off base, like you’re, and it’s OK if you tell me that, but here’s why I, I, I thought it might, right? When you were talking earlier, you mentioned This and we’re trying to do that. Does that resonate like I can just. I can be curious. I don’t, I don’t know because I, I, I think, um, I keep reading too, Tony, and this may be a separate tangent, but I keep reading, you probably see some of the same things that I do where there’s a mindset somewhere in the corner of fundraising where that, that, that raising funds, uh, feels like begging. I keep seeing it and I’m like, I don’t, I don’t understand that. Like I. I, I don’t understand that mindset that like we’ve already lost if we feel like raising dollars is begging or asking for, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s coming with, uh, with humbleness and, and almost a contrition. I’m sorry to have to ask. No, no, we, no, we ask confidently, we ask firmly, uh, we may get no’s, we do get no’s. You will get nos are great, by the way, nos are great. That’s fine. Now you know where you stand, as you said earlier, you know, the information is valuable, but, but we don’t, we don’t ask with, with, uh, sheepishly, sheepishly, awkwardly, so, you know, uh, quietly and, and, and contritely. No, no. All right. You’ve said a couple of times, curiosity, curiosity. I think you’re talking about curiosity about people. Just Yeah, jeez, that why this curiosity about people. How does this help a, a fundraiser? I, I, I, I think then I don’t make any assumptions, right? Um, I was talking to, um, A chief development officer of a, of a larger nonprofit, um, last week, and she was telling me a story about how they have different, uh, I was at a, uh, a school and this person had this potential major donor had an engineering background, right? All their degrees. These were in engineering, um, they were, uh, uh, uh, an alumnus of the engineering school and all that, and the person was on their wealth screening tools, like, this is a prime candidate to give a major gift to our engineering school, right? And they kept hitting this person with engineering. Uh, information and testimonies about the engineering school and they were building a new wing for it and this, that and the other, and they were getting no traction. Fast forward, they got a meeting with the guy. They walked into his house, uh, in person, and he’s got incredible artwork up, right, within his house, and they start asking about the artwork. Long story short, the guy was an engineer because his parents pretty much made him. He always wanted to be an artist. Um, and, uh, we’re able to get a large gift for the art portion of the school, right? Uh, so that, that’s what I mean about curiosity is not coming in with any assumptions. And, and when I take, when I detach, like I was talking about before, then I’m able to come with really no true agenda because I’m not focused on an outcome. I’m not focused on This is how this is gonna go. I can have my roadmap about how I run a meeting and what that looks like and what, what materials to bring and, and all of that. But I need to really unders like what makes you tick. And let the conversation go. The way it goes. And, and, and that’ll lend itself. I have a 2 year old right now, so I’m constantly reminded of what genuine curiosity is. Now I need to have better questions than why, why, why, why, but that’s helpful, you know, never satisfied. Right. I consider it, uh, almost a gift when I can meet somebody in their office or in their home. You’re surrounded by, by, um, artifacts as, uh, that, that, that reveal the person. Where, where did you catch that fish? Whose wedding is that photo from? Uh, you have a boat. Uh, where’s that home? Who are, are those your, are those your parents? Are those your grandchildren? What, what, oh, I see you went to Indiana University at Bloomington. What, what did you study there? You know, you’re surrounded by potential questions and, and that’s where curiosity. You know, it just becomes so, so valuable and it’s way more fun. Don’t we think that’s more fun than like all this structure and process, and I don’t know, maybe it’s just me because I’m not like a, I’m not a detail-oriented guy at my core. I have to really focus on, on, on a step by step process because I usually just figure out the temperature of the water after I jump in. Like that’s, that’s just, um, but I just find it, it’s much more fun way to live. Yeah, because you don’t know what you’re gonna learn. You don’t know. Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, it’s curiosity about people. Uh, that, that’s, that, that’s how you’ll learn about them, what motivates them, you know, like the engineer who’s, uh, who wanted to, really wanted to fund the arts. You got something else in your background that you are very open about. You’re very open about it on LinkedIn, uh, your own sobriety and recovery. How does that, how does that help your work? Oh my gosh, um, I’m, I’m, I’m grateful, you know, uh, my journey through sobriety has not been a linear one. I first got sober from alco I’m an alcoholic, uh, back in 2017. And uh my sobriety date now is January 26, 2024. So you can see, it’s not, it’s a, it’s been a journey of self-discovery, um, and we don’t know what we don’t know. Um, but it is the absolute focal point and foundation of my entire life. And when I speak to these things, I’m actually, I’m, I’m throwing some lingo out here without even realizing it when I, when I, when I say, you know, don’t, uh, let go of what we don’t control. Um, showing up vulnerable and, and human, it’s all centered in, um, in, in self-centered fear. It’s all centered in recovery and, and, and sobriety for me, are, are these lessons. I am so grateful. Uh, To be in recovery. I’m so grateful. And, and the reason for it, I, I’m pretty confident that I was the type of person without this disease of alcoholism. I was gonna live a fairly mediocre existence. I just, you know, I, I had some good times, some bad times. I was gonna kind of go through life, uh, like, like that, um, not, never truly engaging with my own life, never trying to reach my full potential or grow. It just, for whatever reason, um, but, but through all of this, What’s been such a, an incredible blessing is, is I know, I, when I wake up every day, I have two choices. One is to be the absolute best version of myself that I can possibly be. The other is to lose everything I have. That there’s no middle ground, uh, for, for a person in, in, in recovery, at least for me. There’s no middle ground. Um, I don’t, I don’t believe in the word maintenance or maintain. I think we’re either growing or dying. And if I’m not getting better or growing or, or learning something new every day, then I gotta be careful. Um, so yeah, that, that has been. I, I, I just see life completely differently now and to live a life without. Uh, fear of, fear of what you’re gonna think of me, fear of if I’m gonna get what I want. Are you gonna take what I have, um, all these things. Uh, and the universe has a beautiful way of, of attracting like-minded people to you. Once you start to live authentically, you just attract authentic people. It’s, it’s crazy, right? Was it the hip hop period in your life that, uh, brought you to the alcohol addiction? You know what, um, it’s a, it’s a great question. Looking back, you know, hindsight’s twenty-twenty. Um, it certainly did not help, um. What really did it for me was somewhere in my late 20s to early 30s, I developed um really debilitating anxiety, like real bad, panic attacks, the thought of like laundry to do would put me in the fetal position. It, it just and it’s hard to explain if you’ve never been there, but like, uh, mental health is very, very big to me, um, big deal. And I found out quickly that alcohol made that go away. It made it go away, took away the anxiousness, like just like that, and it became my best friend, um, until it didn’t. Until it didn’t, that didn’t last very long. Um, it’s a selfish, it’s a very selfish and demanding friend. Oh my gosh, it’s a jealous, jealous more, right? Yeah, um, and what I learned the hard way is that, you know, I was attempting to numb out anxiety or fear and, and, but you don’t get to pick what emotions you numb. So I was also numbing joy and happiness and presence and all of these things, um, and it was killing me fast, um. The gift of desperation. Um, I’m fortunate enough that I get to work with, with other people in recovery a lot. Um, it’s, it’s something that fills my cup. And I tell people all the time like. Uh, even if I could, I wouldn’t give you, I wouldn’t give you the gift of desperation. You gotta, you gotta get it yourself. You got, and, and because you have to experience that, um, I’m as hard-headed as they come. And uh throughout my journey, I thought I had it figured out. And I was doing so well that I created a life that was beyond my wildest dreams. I married the woman of my dreams, had a, we have a beautiful blended family, all of these things, but then I started, I started repeating some of the patterns. That I was doing when I had blamed it on my first marriage, my, uh, an environment that was, uh, tumultuous, like a, a career I didn’t want to be in, like all these things, and I’m like, it, it dawned on me that it was me. Um, and I was on the verge of losing everything that mattered to me, and that was it. That was it. No way out. None. And it was like, you just got to let go. Stop trying so hard. Uh, and ever since, it’s just been, it’s a beautiful thing. Yeah, I don’t know. Well, congratulations on where you are. Thanks. I appreciate it. You said it’s, you said it’s not linear, so I, I recognize that there are, there are struggles, maybe struggles every day, you know, I don’t, but congratulations on where you are and, and also just thank you for sharing that. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Um, yeah, thank you. What amazes me about your, Brad, your, about your philosophy is, I mean, you work for a company, uh, called Instill. They’re Instill.io, Clearly a technology company, but you’re humanity forward. Yeah. Do you have any, any dissonance in the company? I love that question. And here’s the thing, it’s why I lean into it. Um, human is, we’ve been, we’ve been talking this whole time about to be human, right? How to be human, how to show up more human. And that’s in a world of AI, look, I use AI all day, every day, I use it all the time, uh, for work, for my grocery lists, for all kinds of stuff, right? So that I can show up more human to the human parts of my life, right? That’s what technology should do. It should fill some gaps where we need it. Take away admin, manual things that Anybody could be doing so that I have now the bandwidth, the tools, the insights to show up more human. That’s what it should. It should not replace. Any human connections. That’s why if you ever see me posting, if you ever see me commenting, if you ever get an email from me, if you ever get a text message from me, it is me. And I, there are so many tools out there that promise You know, Gold at the end of the rainbow, if you just automate all your workflows, please don’t do that. Please don’t do that. Please show up as yourself, please. Um, there’s plenty of other ways that, that technology can help you, but when you’re communicating with another human being, it should be you. So, is it, is it as simple as, you know, these, the tools that, that you use in the, in the ways that you use them, just give you greater time and, and, and bandwidth to, to be, to take the time to be present. With other, with other humans, is it, is that simple, or is there, is there you got it? No, I, I, I think that’s it. And, and maybe see things that I couldn’t see otherwise, right? Things that maybe would fall through the cracks. So not to like get too, um, into the weeds, but like if I have a, a, a portfolio of donors, um, if I don’t know what to go look for, I won’t find it, right? So if I can have things surface to me that I didn’t even know I needed. Like relationships between donors. Um, or the sentiment of that donor the last 2 or 3 times we’ve talked is going down. I need to nurture that relationship before it’s too late. These are the types of insights that where I can now be proactive. Instead of reactive. Because if, again, if I don’t know what to go look for, I can’t find it. So, you know, I’m staring at a spreadsheet. Who do I want to reach out to today? Well, it’s been 6 months since I gave Tony a phone call. I guess I’ll give it to him even though he gives every December. Why am I calling him? Like what, why? With what message? And, and, and I have to take all that time to think about those things before I do it. This is why we burn out, right? Is, is we’re just kind of, we’re wandering in the dark. Um, I guess that’s what I mean. All right. Let’s switch to LinkedIn Yeah. You would like, you’d like nonprofits to be doing a lot more with LinkedIn. You are very active there. It, it brought us together, uh, so there are downsides to the tool, obviously. That’s sorry for that. Putting those aside, putting that, that, that unfortunate, uh, relationship aside, no. What, what, what, what are we not, what are we not seeing in, in, in nonprofits, uh, capacity that, that we ought to be exploiting? So here’s, here’s the way I view LinkedIn. I view it as, um, a neighborhood or a coffee shop, right? And if I’m a nonprofit leader. Um, my donors or potential donors are sitting in this coffee shop and I can pull up a seat right at their table and it’s not rude or creepy, right? I can do that. So, um, I can get in the comments, I can, I can post about Things that my organization is doing and start to formulate my own neighborhood of who my prospects are, who my donors are, and we’re interacting all day every day. So when I go to make that phone call or that ask or that piece of outreach later in the year, they already know me, we’ve already had a warmed-up conversation, right? I am top of mind and It is blue ocean. No one else is doing this, right? No one is doing it, and, and you’ll see it out there. It’s, it’s. It’s flooded with salespeople. And, um, LinkedIn gurus and all the things that are worthwhile, but in the nonprofit space, I see very little of fundraising leaders out there. sharing their why and, and, and being personable and approachable. It’s one thing for me to have the organization’s page, right? Come to our, come to our gala, come to our event, and I’m, I’m reposting it, right? If, if I’m Brad, if I’m the development director of XYZ nonprofit. I should be speaking to and posting to the universe why I’m there, what, what brings me joy, what fills my cup, um, start to get in the comments of, if I have a donor database of 150 major donors, I need to find them on LinkedIn, follow them, connect with them, be in their comments, right? Find out who else is commenting on their stuff, right? And that’s how I do outreach. That’s how I build connection, and no one else is doing this, and it blows my mind. Um, I’ve been consistently on LinkedIn for, I mean, I’ve had an account for a long, long time, but every day for 8 months. OK. And I can’t tell you the number of relationships, and yes, business, I’ve drummed up, but more importantly than that, community and connection. It, it’s been, it’s been absolutely Incredible and added so much value to my life. You can share behind the scenes moments about the organization, reflect, share donor impact stories, right? Leader leaders posting with their own voice, so I can, I can be human. People will relate to that, right? I wanna know, um, I, I give to a handful of organizations here in Indiana, um, and I love a couple of them because the, um, the Chief Development Officer. Posts about um moving her kids into college, right? Or just, just messy everyday things. It is so awesome. And now I have an emotional connection to that organization. When that same person talks to me about having a difficult moment with their kid after school, and then 2 or 3 days later is reflecting on a donor story about their nonprofit and then going and making an ask for a campaign, I see the human. Um, anyway, I’ll, I’ll get off my soapbox, but I just think it’s untapped territory. Um, I think there’s fear in putting yourself out there, which I can understand, but it, it, it’ll come back to you tenfold. Yeah, you’re being vulnerable. Um, and I, I think a lot of what attracts people to you and, and, A community around you is because you are so, you, you are vulnerable, you are personal, you are intimate in a, a, a, a, a good number of your LinkedIn posts, which I’ve commented on and told you that I admire that. And I’m telling you now, I, I admire your vulnerability and, and it’s more than presence. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s an intimacy. You, you, you do share, you, you share some intimate stuff. Well, uh, thank you. I appreciate that. Um, I think likewise, um, not just with the podcast, but, um, I appreciate your ability to, um, articulate, I think what a lot of people are thinking and feeling, but put it into words that makes it digestible for a lot of people, um, and you’re not shying away from things which I find so refreshing because We can pretend all day long, not just with fundraising, but I, I, we can act like everything is, is wonderful and, and great, and there’s so much good out there, but I think being constructive, um, and always wanting to improve and get better and pointing out maybe some deficiencies and things like that is so important and it opens up a dialogue. Um, so thank you for, for you doing that, uh, as well. All right. Follow us both on LinkedIn. Follow Brad first. Brad Tun, T O N. No, Tom. His name is Tom. It’s Tom or Brad. It’s Tom, very good. It’s Tom. You will not find me under Tom, but you’re welcome. I don’t know, I’m sure there’s a great Tom out there. Tom Tun. No, you won’t find that. No, uh, he’s Brad. He’s Brad Tun. Uh, Brad, you leave us with um. Uh, you, the, uh, I will typically say, you know, leave us with some inspiration, you know, take home moments. This has been like 50 minutes of inspiration. So, uh, but maybe it’s just something we haven’t, we haven’t talked about or you’d like to say a little more about that, that you didn’t. Leave us with something that We haven’t heard some, some, some, some, uh, some Brad, some Brad Real that we haven’t heard. Here’s what I’ll say, um, if you appreciate someone in your life. Uh, tell them. Tell them, um, thank them. I’m, uh, I’ve grown a cut, and, and you know what, it is, it’s awkward for about 5 seconds to pick up the phone for no reason. Especially if it’s someone when they see your name, they’re gonna think something’s wrong cause they don’t hear from you very often. It’s awkward for about 5 seconds, and then you’ll feel 10 ft tall. Um, so if someone means something to you, tell them. Brad Tunn You’ll find him, as I said, very active on LinkedIn. Follow him there. You’ll find the company Instill at instill.io. Thank you, Brad. I knew I was gonna love this. Uh, genuine pleasure. Thank you very much for sharing all this. The pleasure is mine. Thank you so much for having me, Tony. Next week, zero-click marketing. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at Tony Martignetti.com. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate Martinetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.