Welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite hebdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d suffer with biliousness if you upset my stomach and gave me a headache because you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate, with what’s up this week. Hey Tony, here’s what’s up. Savvy CSR seeking. Kimberly O’Donnell delivers strategies and tactics for your corporate social responsibility fundraising. She advises you to build relationships and avoid transactions. Lead with mission and your compelling story. Include volunteering, tap your community to avoid cold outreach, leverage your own data, and a lot more. Kimberly is with Bon Terra. On Tony’s take 2. We lost a sponsor over a show. Here is savvy CSR seeking. It’s my pleasure to welcome to nonprofit radio, the chief fundraising officer at Bonterra, Kimberly O’Donnell. She leads the coaching and consulting program at Bonterra, working with nonprofits and major corporations to strengthen fundraising, engagement, and corporate social responsibility. She taught nonprofit leadership for over a decade at Georgetown and George Mason Universities. You’ll find the company at Bonterraech.com. And you’ll find Kimberly on LinkedIn. Welcome to Nonprofit Radio, Kimberly O’Donnell. Thank you. It’s great to be here. My pleasure. You see, I donned my Bonterra gear. I got my hat on. I love it. I love it. It looks good on you. I hope that’s the current, that’s still a current logo, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah, it works great. I got this. I got this a couple of years ago at the, uh, nonprofit technology conference. Ah, in 10, OK. I was trying to figure out where that hat came from. It came from, yep, came from that conference. Uh, is Bonterra going this year into Detroit? Do you know? Great question. I, I believe. So, um, we do a lot of conferences. I don’t go to that one, but often you’ll see me at a lot of different, um, shows. I’ll be at AFP Icon this year, and, uh, the peer to peer forum is coming up in a few weeks, and, um, Points of Light, uh, Foundations, uh, conference later this year, the bridge conference. Anyways, um. Yeah, uh, but N10 is a, is a great conference, uh, for, uh, nonprofit folk to go to, to really learn a lot about, uh, the evolving tech that’s out there and the new resources that are available to them. Yeah, it is a fantastic conference, and it’s not only for technologists by any means. It’s for everybody using tech for their social good mission. Uh, yeah, I’ve brought the podcast there. This, I think this is gonna be the 12th year, 12th or 13th year in a row. Uh, where we, we capture lots of interviews over the 2.5 days of the conference and as I said this year in Detroit, so I bet Bonterra will be there. I’d be surprised if you’re not there. I, I, I believe so. I, you are right. So let’s talk about corporate social responsibility CSR. You have lots of solid advice, good advice, savvy advice about. Uh, making your pitch, you know, thinking through how to pitch. We’re gonna talk about all this. What, uh, and then how to make the pitch and to whom and what you offer. Start us off with a kind of a high-level, high level overview of like the value and what maybe what you see some nonprofits not doing so well that we could, we could improve upon for our uh nonprofit radio listeners. Yeah, sure. Um, well, I would say the landscape is changing, right? Like as we step into this, let’s level set about what is going on in the sector today related to CSR and the, the. Relationships that we have with our um corporate partners, uh, last year we saw big shifts in federal funding, um, and that caused a lot of organizations who were affected by those cuts to go, wait a minute, where can I get other resources, right? Like how do we, how do we fill this bucket and by the way, corporations. Why don’t you step up and give more? Many of those corporations, some did, right, like, but many also went through a period of pause, where they began to evaluate what their core pillars were, because in addition to all that was happening with the federal funding changes, they were also taking um some, some, uh, strategic, you know, evaluations of their DEIB. Programs, they’re giving pillars, all of that. And so what happened last year was, there was a period where, where nonprofits were going, hey, we need to go and go after more corporate funding. And the funders were kind of looking internally going, wait, I need to reset our strategic pillars and just make sure that we are in align so that we can support as many organizations as we can more fully and thoughtfully. Um, so that happened in the first half of the year, um, really going into Q3, and then what we’ve since seen is that many corporate partners are going, OK, um, we, we know who we, we are and, and what we stand for. But with the new one big beautiful bill, the new tax law that went into effect in January, um, we are, we are not sure yet what our overall giving might look like moving forward, because there are different benefits now in with this, uh, tax law. So, I say that as, you know, to just kind of give Get us started in thinking about why, um, it is time to think strategically, uh, as a nonprofit about your corporate partnerships, and what things you could be doing in this year, um, to really reestablish those relationships and go and find new ones that can potentially be, uh, mutually beneficial. So how do we start our, I guess, our local analysis, like, you know, within our nonprofit? What, how do we think through what we bring? Because we do bring, you know, you, we’re not, we’re not asking like from a position of weakness. We have things that, that corporations want. How do we, how do we think through what, you know, what, what we bring as, as we’re, as we’re starting to, I guess, assemble our pitch? Um, so, great question. And the first thing to do is really think about what your stories look and sound like, and how they might appeal to your corporate partners. And also maybe do an audit of your corporate partners, who they are, where they’re located, why they are partnering with you. Um, it could be that they’re local to your community. It could be that They’re tied in some way to your mission, right? But really kind of dive in and assess who they are, what size organization are you working, you know, are you working with mostly small organi, you know, companies, um, or local branches of banks, for example, or your local, you know, Target or Walmart, right? Um, and if that is the case, then. Determine, like, is this, is this the best grouping for us? Um, or if you’re working with much larger organizations, why is that? And, and what are you doing? Um, so that kind of gives you a sense of what you have, and then begin to think about what might be, um, who you, who you might target moving forward. And so as you think about those things, then you also can begin to think about how to prioritize your mission through storytelling. How you can communicate that why, um, to a corporate funder for why they would be involved with your organization. And you always want these organizations to be a good fit. It’s not like it, it is a mutually beneficial relationship. And, um, and you want it to feel good, um, and not be such a stretch. So like that’s, that’s the first thing, right? It’s kind of going, all right, who, who do we have and what organizations might we want to um engage moving forward. If we’re looking at a, uh, so I sort of see two buckets. So if we’re, we’re looking at a, a local, you mentioned, you know, Target or Walmart, and there’s that versus local businesses. Might be a dry cleaner, it might be an auto car dealership, might be a laundromat, restaurants, but, so let’s, but what’s that banks might be, might be a local, local bank in the, in the county or the state, right? Not a, not a national bank. Um, so, looking at that first cohort, um, does the local Target or Walmart or Best Buy, you know, do they have discretion or, or are they gonna refer us to the, Corporate headquarters or or is it a mix? Yeah, it’s, it’s typically a mix for some of those, you know, big box retailers and, and, uh, grocery stores and things like that. Um, as a corporate entity, they likely have a foundation, they likely have, um, a CSR office that’s focused on their overall, um, giving strategy, um, and their employee volunteer programs, all of that. But they often will have some discretionary funds that they can, uh, use. To support local organizations. They also, you know, some of those organizations also allow, uh, charities to come and, um, you know, have a table in front of the, the store, um, or they can come and speak to their employees about their mission. And so, um, there are different ways that a big box retailer or national, international company might be able to support, uh, a smaller local organization. OK. And then on the local business side, I mean, I guess you, you have the advantage that you, you’re not gonna be put off, uh, to, to a, a, a larger office somewhere. You know, if you’re in the restaurant or the local bank, you’re, you’re, you’re talking to the decision-maker, but, you know, the dollars may not be as, as great as, uh, as great as a, you know, a national retailer or something. Yes, yes. And you know, you can establish a lot of those relationships by going to the entity, um, and, and sharing with them, you know, how you are connected. You could set up meetings. But you could also meet great contacts through your chamber of commerce, through your Rotary Club, right? Like different community groups, um, are also wonderful places to start to establish those relationships. You mentioned employee volunteering. I wanna, uh, pull on that thread a little bit, because that’s something that a lot of companies are interested in, and that, that could include local, that could include local businesses, um, as well as national or international brands, right? The, a lot of companies like employee volunteering, and even some of them will even compensate. The, the, the employee for the time that they spend. That’s right. That’s right. So they have a volunteer paid hours, right, um, and what they call VTO, volunteer time off, and they encourage their employees to track those in their system, um, our, so Bonterra’s software, uh, one of our, uh, software products is for just that, um, for tracking volunteer hours, for, for giving grants, um. It’s called cyber grants. And, uh, so we are very well, uh, you know, well skilled, well schooled in, in corporate giving and volunteerism. What we’re seeing is that volunteerism is on the rise. There is a, um, there is a big push within companies for their employees to volunteer because, um, it just. Feels good, right? Like, it’s great for the business, it’s great for the employees. Employees who volunteer typically have a higher, um, perception of their company. They have higher satisfaction, um, scores, uh, when, when they are surveyed, um, they feel more connected to the, the company and their community, um, and they’re really proud of the work that, that their company does. And so, Um, so it is great if you are a, uh, a charity to begin to think about how you might engage these companies of all sizes in volunteer activities. Um, and some of the things that are popular right now are, um, really around purpose-driven things. Um, micro volunteering, uh, I think is a really interesting concept, um, things that, um, uh, employees or Or, you know, employee volunteers can do in a very short period of time, um, where they could also be learning about your mission, um, and also helping you in some way, potentially virtually if you have some virtual volunteer opportunities, that is great because then that will appeal to larger, um, companies that may not have a physical footprint in your community, um, but they still are really aligned with your mission. Uh, for example, I’ve seen, um, Uh, those micro volunteer projects evolve around, um, having, uh, providing an overview of like the coral reef, uh, degradation and, and then having employees go and, you know, review the coral reef and spot different areas where there are, um, so where you say micro volunteering, is that like, like an hour at a time or something? Is that what you mean? as little as 15 minutes 15. to 30 minutes. Yeah, yeah, really short periods of time. Um, another example is, a homeless organization actually has, uh, put materials to create, um, straw mats in, um, these bank branches, and employees could go when they were taking their 15 minute break, their lunch break, they could go back and they could work on weaving this, um, mat. Uh, and it might take several months, and, but the whole office is doing this during their, their break time. And so they are collectively making something together, and they are collectively helping, um, to address homelessness and, uh, and just care for others, right? Like, so that is a feel good thing. They’re doing it on their own time. It is in the office. Um, there are other, I’ve seen like, uh, DI. What they call them DIY volunteer kits, where, um, uh, there’s a hospice organization. They don’t provide fresh flowers to new hospice hospice patients, but they do have, um, they do, uh, through origami make origami flowers. And so they will train the employees on how to make these flowers, and they’ll make them in their own time. And so those are, those are little micro volunteering opportunities. And what you would call DIY opportunities. OK, those are brilliant. Um, yeah, so, all right, so we need to think through how we could Create volunteer opportunities, more, more traditional, like, come on, come on, come to our office or our campus, spend a half a day and You know, I don’t know, volunteer with the animals, uh, walk the animals, uh, or, or feeding, or I’ve heard of, you know, assembling backpacks, like for students, things like that, or student kit or kids that are going abroad to, to our armed forces, you know, whatever, whatever it might be. But as well as the micro. Which sound, you know, that, that has to be done. I mean if we’re talking about 15 or 30 minutes, that’s, that’s an in-office. You’re not coming to the office to do it, you’ll, you’ll spend all the time just going back and forth between offices. But, but, but off-site, but that, all right, you’re opening, you’re opening, and they’ll also, I have another example that I thought was really interesting. They, um, this is for children. I’m, I’m trying to think of who it’s for, but basically they had like coloring. Pages where employees could color or do an art project that would be sent to an individual or a letter writing, right? Like all those things that can be done that appeal to remote employees, um, but still help them feel engaged. Um, and, uh, and there’s just, uh, another thing to consider is, with this one big beautiful bill that’s out, um, so, what it, what it says is that, um, corporations. Uh, would need to donate, uh, 1% of their revenue to receive a tax deduction. Yeah, there’s a new floor this year, a floor in charitable giving for corporations. And so, this could be very challenging for a lot of companies who are very generous, but maybe didn’t hit that 1% floor. And so, what we may see over the next few years is what is called bunching. Um, they may, uh, give in 1 year and then pause for two years, and then give again large grants, right? Like that would equal 3 years of their giving, but They’re gonna give it in one year to get that tax advantage. Um, now, there are other ways that they may, um, be able to support charity, and that is through corporate sponsorships, right? Like, so I could see there being more corporate sponsorships available than there were before. And then also workforce development dollars. And so these are coming from the corporation as opposed to maybe. The, the corporate foundation, um, workforce development dollars could be really helpful for, and, and could be leveraged along with the volunteer, um, a volunteer angle, because, uh, you, as an organization could go in and provide some sort of training to that company and to the employees, um, that could be developing them and then they could do a project with you. An example is. Um, grant making. So there is a, uh, I think they, they had a charity come in and talk about, uh, the impact of grants and grant making. Um, and then the employees were schooled on how you make decisions around grant making, and then they reviewed applications from students. Who had applied for, for grants. So it’s a really neat connection, right? Like where you’re, you’re educating their workforce on something that is tied to the sector and also can be professional development for them longer term, um, around grant making and, and overall charitable giving and, and some of the hard decisions that, that occur. You said something interesting about, you know, sponsorships, because if the company is doing sponsoring with you, sponsorship with you. They could, they could make that part of their marketing budget and not allocate it as a charitable gift, so they don’t have to reach the 1% of whatever it is, gross revenue, whatever the calculate, whatever the, whatever the accounting item is that you have to exceed a 1% of. But they, if they make it a marketing activity, then they don’t have to reach that 1% threshold for it to be a deductible expense. Is that right? Bingo. That’s exactly it. And that’s what I mean as well with the workforce development dollars. So sponsor, so pitch it as a sponsorship, not as a charitable gift, right, right, um, or as a training, um, opportunity or training, or you said I know workforce development, yeah, yeah, so with both of them, um, and it’s, I think it’s interesting because, you know, during COVID, after COVID. I have also long said, boy, are events expensive. And so, you know, they take a lot of time and energy. It’s big labor on staff. Um, and so, when COVID hit, we wondered if there would be fewer live events and big events and the galas and all of those things and the golf. Golf tournaments. And, um, and so now it’ll be interesting to see like with this avenue for corporate giving, if we, if we start to see some more, you know, an uptick in, in some of these larger events for organizations again. And, and sponsoring, right, right. Um, what do you think? Oh, I, I, I think the, I think the shift from calling it charitable giving to training or workforce development or sponsorship, yeah, I, I, I mean, I, I, to me, that just makes like accounting sense and, uh, and tax sense and I don’t know, it’s, they’re, they’re so closely aligned. There’s a, there’s a very fine line between charitable giving and, and sponsoring slash marketing. So, yeah, I, I mean, I think we’ll just see it reallocated, but, but from the nonprofit perspective, it’s in terms of your pitch, you wanna be, you wanna be savvy. You wanna let folks know that, you know that they are now facing a 1% floor on their, uh, uh, on their charitable giving, only above which is deductible, but you come in with, uh, a, a sponsorship idea or a workforce development idea. There’s also a mission alignment. You, you alluded to this, but I’m like, I’m pulling on some threads that you, uh, that you mentioned earlier. You know, you wanna make sure that Your story, I mean, your, your mission aligns with the values of the company, right, overall. Oh, 100%. I mean that’s what’s so important, right? Um, you wanna have good matches. You want this to feel good on both sides. And, um, and often many organizations, um, many companies will, um, Support you, become more engaged with you if it does feel like it’s aligned on both sides. So, I think that’s, that’s really important. I think, you know, as I said, start by doing an analysis of, of who’s giving and why, who your targets might be. And then begin to think about how you can target them, uh, or these new companies and begin to develop relationships. And that’s what this is about. Companies want to have relationships with these nonprofits, and they want it to feel personal for both the company and for their employees. So that’s an important piece. And a relationship is a two-way street, Tony. So that’s the other thing is, um, if you haven’t yet, please reach out to your. Corporate partners and ask them how they’re doing, you know, you can note, hey, there’s been some big shifts now with the, with the new tax law. How is that affecting your giving strategy? That is a very fair question to ask these corporate partners because they’ve been thinking about it, um, or, you know, with things that are happening right now, um, with inflation and, and with the economy in general, and, you know, overall impact of, of many societal things, what’s going on within your company? What are some of the things that you’re concerned about? Um, is there anything that we could be doing on our side to better support you? Uh, and then if they say to you, um, you know, we may need to scale down some of our giving, um, it will impact you, or we don’t know if it’s gonna impact you. Another thing that you can do is you can also ask them if they might make some introductions to other, other companies and other colleagues that they have that might also align. With your organization. I’ve heard from CSR leaders who did a lot of that last year. They said, look, we had to cut down and really hone in on our, on our pillars, um, and as we did that, we invited some of these, you know, uh, groups to come and, and, um, come to conferences where they could network or other networking events or we made personal introductions for them. Um, so there are many, uh. Companies and CSR folks who are doing that, and all that takes us an ask, right? Like, uh, people get so nervous about like, oh, asking anything of their corporate partner, um, for fear of losing any kind of funding, but, but that’s what this is about. This is a relationship, and there is nothing, you know, there’s no harm in asking for other ways that they might, um, support your organization and help, uh, others learn about your organization. In the vein of a relationship, you know, what about making multi-year asks? Like, you know, instead of, instead of us coming to you once a year or these one-off things where, I don’t know, support the gala or let’s, you know, let’s have a, a, a, a, a grant that, that has some volunteering and some sponsorship, you know, mix. How about pitching like a three-year, a 3-year relationship or maybe even a five-year relationship? Is that, Is that feasible, or I, I would say it’s very feasible, and I think a 3-year relationship is a great place to start, you know, 2-year, um, and, uh, and see what they think. Like, it’s also a great way to begin to get creative in how these, um, companies may support you and how you can secure, um, more funding longer term that’s sustainable for your organization. And that just feels more like a partnership than a transaction. You know, the, the year after year thing, OK, you made a pitch, we’ll give you the $200,000. OK, next year, you made a pitch, you know, it, it’s, it just, it doesn’t feel like a relationship. It feels like a series of annual transactions. Yeah, yeah, well, and, and similarly around grant applications nowadays too, right? Like you have that. And so how do you make these grant applications feel personal as well? So Bonterra has, um, a, uh, has, has built and embedded AI into a lot of our tools and, um, and we the first social good um company to actually have an agentic AI platform for nonprofits. And, um, and we have a tool called grant Match AI where they can go in, a nonprofit could go in and search for grants, and then there are match criteria, and you can see why you match to these different, um, grant opportunities. And how strong of a match it is, could be by geography or by mission or a number of things. And then what’s so cool about it is that this application, then you could use AI to start the application, and it will pull in your mission and help answer some of those questions. But what’s really important is, is that there is that what we call the human in the loop, right? The human, and I heard it last week. From an AWS colleague who was calling it human at the helm, you need to have these applications feel personal, have the data in it that really shows the impact that your organization is making, so that the grant reviewers will be able to see and feel your organization and what you really are doing and achieving. It’s time for Tony’s take 2. Thank you, Kate. You may recall a few weeks ago, I made mention of a potential sponsor, looked very promising. That, uh, that potential sponsor is not gonna join us. And that’s because they object to. One of our shows, uh, that was, uh, the Decolonizing Wealth show, which I replayed in December. I’ve replayed it a few times. Uh, the original recording was 2018. I’ve replayed it, I believe, 3 times since then. And it was deemed by this potential sponsor company to be too political. They didn’t like it, uh. I stand by it. I think it’s a great show. It’s why I’ve replayed it several times. Uh, Edgar Villanueva is the author of the book, Decolonizing Wealth, and that was, as I said, also the name of the show. And, um, yeah, he talks about the intense concentration of wealth in the United States and the impact of that on philanthropy. And he talked about plans, you know, for overcoming that. Uh, uh, that concentration and essentially doing what the book says, decolonizing wealth, uh, deeply rooted, you may recall in, um, Native American Thinking, and wisdom because he’s himself is a Native American. He’s a member of the Lumbe tribe. So for that company, that show was too political and they, uh, withdrew their interest in becoming sponsors. They had never, they hadn’t joined, they hadn’t signed up, uh, but they’re no longer a prospect. With that, I would say if. Your company feels that nonprofit radio is something valuable for the nonprofit community and you’d be proud to have your company, your brand affiliated with the show. Let me know, because we have a sponsorship opening. That is Tony’s take 2. Kate There are other donor fish in the sea. There always are. That’s absolutely right. That’s true for individuals, that’s true for companies. Absolutely true. You’re right. We’ve got Bou butt loads more time. Here’s the rest of Savvy CSR Seeking with Kimberly O’Donnell. Also in the vein of, uh, relationships, your advice is to look within, as we, as we think about who to, who, which businesses to approach, you know, you, you think about who are the past sponsors been, what, what contacts might you have within your organization. Yeah, yeah, that’s a great starting point, right? Um, looking at, looking at your past corporate, uh, sponsors, um, looking at the employees who have volunteered with your organization, um, looking at, uh, actually one of the things that, that you could do is, um, on newsletter forms or on any kind of form that you have, you could ask, you know, uh, are you open to sharing your, you know, Your profession or your company, um, we are always looking for matched gifts, you know, does your company have a matched gift program? They can just check the box, yes or no, right? Like, but if we don’t ask, we don’t know. And, and often it’s, it’s reliant on the employee coming forward and saying, I have a matched gift program. I’m going to give to you, and I’m also going to apply for this match. But we, as a nonprofit also need to be asking that question and having. That, um, socialized in many places. Um, you could on your giving page have something that, that states, you know, that, that you, um, you know, you ask about match gift programs, and then make sure that your software is able to, um, effectively link that. Uh, I used to work for a nonprofit where we didn’t do a great job. My software was, was terrible, um, and it. And it, it didn’t match those soft credits easily. And I can remember one of our employees coming to me and saying, hey, my husband has been giving these match gifts, and they’re not connecting to me and, and my relationship with this company. I’m not getting credit for it whenever we have the donor rolls. And it was really because things were not matched well internally. So, um, that’s something that I know that we at Fonterra having fundraising, um, software. We, we. They’re very careful to be able to, to have those soft credit matches. What’s your own background? Let’s talk about, uh, Kimberly O’Donnell for a few minutes. What you, you, uh, you were executive director of a nonprofit? I was of a volunteer center back in the day. I was a chief philanthropy officer of a, um, of a foundation. It was a, a, um, a, um, medical foundation tied to a medical association. Um, so I was, that was the American, American Psychiatric Association, wasn’t it? American, um, yeah, Psychiatric Association Foundation, yes, um, so psychiatrists, um, and, uh, that’s OK, you know, you can, we can shout them out. So psychiatry is, that’s a bona fide medical practice. It is, uh, and they do amazing, amazing work, um, and much needed in this day and age, right, um. So, uh, yes, I also worked for, um, a, uh, what is called good 360 now, um, and so that is product philanthropy. So the giving programs for very large companies like a, um, Adele, uh, Sara Lee, Hayneshoser, Duracell, they would all leverage good 360 to um manage the logistics of their corporate, um, in-kind giving. Uh, so, so, yeah, you know, getting those, you know, having a, a program where we were able to vet those who were going to get, you know, laptops and things like that, or, or personal good items. And so, uh, and there I oversaw the membership of the nonprofit, um. Groups that receive the in-kind gifts. So what I’ve been able to do over the years is really have a, a sense of, um, giving a volunteerism, um, and giving it all different levels. And then I, uh, this, I’ve been at 3 nonprofit tech companies. Um, the first being, uh, um, prospects research, uh, with Wealth Engine, which is now part of Ultrata. Um, and so I saw the power of, um, LLMs and, you know, where technology could go many years ago, you know, like, in 2000, and, and just have been amazed and fascinated by where it’s taking us today. I mean, it can do so much good for our social goods sector, and I, I can’t wait to see what more we can harness with AI. It can. I, I have my own skepticisms and concerns about. Giving away our creativity. Uh, you know, uh, when, when, when I, I, I don’t, I don’t like to see us. Use the large language models for like a first draft of something. I know that’s maybe contrary to what you’re thinking, but to me that’s the most creative. Thing, uh, that’s not a very good word. That, that’s, that’s some of the, that’s some of the most creative work that a human can do is looking at a blank page and, and creating it. Uh, so when we, when we see that creative work, To the, to the large language models and then we become Basically a copy editor. You know, I, I, I have concerns about that and it’s not only writing, but also music and art. And so I have my, I have my concerns, you know, I have my, like, Skepticism, my, my concerns, you know, I, I, uh, yeah, you know, I don’t, I don’t want us to become less creative creatures. I agree with you. I mean, and I think that’s really important to recognize is, is how do you keep the creativity in there? And where, where is that special sauce? I would say, I find that, that first draft, um, that’s created through agentic AI where, where you are already training it with your voice and, and your mission and all of that is built in there. So you’re, you’re helping it become somewhat like you, um, is, is. Very helpful, particularly for smaller organizations where they may not have the, the experience, um, like I do from years of fundraising to know where to start with that draft, right? Like, if you have never been a fundraiser, and yet you have to write an appeal letter, it can be really hard to know what to put in that to start. Um, and it could take a lot of time. And so that’s where if you have a Trained agent who, who understands your voice, right? Like who gets your organization and can start with that, then you can then go in and go, all right, well, I now know how to set this up to actually be successful in asking for contributions. And so now let me put in some of this, the feeling that the storytelling, that, that experience that I want, I want people to, to feel and yeah, I, I, I would say then I would. I, uh, it’s a fair point. I, I, I would be concerned then about what the model was trained on, you know, cause you, you made, you made, you were very clear. You made the point, you know, it’s in your tone. It was trained on, but, you know, is it trained on your, your content and your voice, or is it, you know, a, a, a, a generic like chat GPT, uh, that, that you haven’t given your individual content to. So it’s, you know, it loses, it doesn’t have your voice, it doesn’t know your voice, um, so, all right, and that, and that is the, that’s the big fear that we had, and it was actually why Bonterra went so quickly into developing our. Or um what we call Bonterra Q and that comes after James Bond, right? Like Q is behind the scenes, helping out, helping to God, right? QUE is what we call it. And that was trained on. Decades of experience, uh, we actually, I oversee a team of, uh, fundraising coaches that work one on one with nonprofits throughout the country. Um, and there are 20 of them, and we leveraged our coaches to go in and really help with our, um, developers and everybody else who’s designing Q to make sure that it had that strategy and that thinking around best practices in place so that we could develop that and then. Now for our customers, it is all their information and it’s all gated just for them. No one else can see it. And so what they’re seeing is, um, having that fundraising coach who helped, you know, who, who one on one is, is helping organizations, but then now built into our tools so that it can provide that guidance to help them be more successful from the start. But, I absolutely agree, and I think everybody at Fonterra would agree in saying that, um, you need. You need to have that human in the loop. You need to have the human guiding it and that this is a tool. It’s a tool in our toolbox, but it’s not everything. And that’s another great thing. Um, let’s say that you’re gonna go out to, um, a corporate prospect, and you want to make a pitch to them. You can actually use, you know, AI to help practice that pitch, to really hone in on those talking points and really make it more compelling, uh, ultimately, and hopefully more successful. But I really want to go back, um, for a second if we can to, um, how we go about finding potential corporate partners. Yeah, the prospects, OK, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that’s really important because I see and hear that a lot, you know, as a fundraising coach, um, how do I find more corporate donors? Uh, it’s, it’s important to look within, right. Ask the questions, to look at those folks who are coming to events. I think a big lost opportunity is you may be hosting an event. Let’s say it is, um, you know, a gala or some sort of thing where you might have corporate sponsorships and people have tables. There’s often not any interaction after that event with those people. People who attended on behalf of that sponsorship, and we don’t even in many cases have the full contact information for them. So, you know, think about how you can begin to capture that contact information and have them opt in because they came to your event, they feel some tie to it, you know, keep that relationship going. That’s a very good idea, the, the, the. The, the representatives of the sponsors, right? The sponsors who bought the, uh, for you, it could be a $1000 table, it could be a $25,000 table. But the, the folks who came to fill that table, They, you know, it was, they weren’t, they, well, some of them may have been forced, but they weren’t all, they probably weren’t all forced. Some of them do have an interest in the work that you do. And right, could that be a, a further lever into the organization, right into the company, right? Is that what you’re suggesting? Absolutely, absolutely great volunteer opportunities. By the way, it could be the spouse of someone who works there who’s also at another company that would, that could be opening a door for you, and we don’t capture that information. We don’t connect with them afterwards, right? We go and we say thanks for coming. And we have their name, uh, because they registered in advance, but, you know, that’s it. Well, we don’t, right, but, you know, but have a little, have a conversation with them, like collect business cards. People still carry business cards. Uh, or you could just use the LinkedIn, um, uh, uh, QR code that is it. So you know, link in with them as, as, and, and leverage LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great resource for prospecting, um, so that’s another great one. let me share an example of what did not work for me years ago, but I think a lot of, um, uh, new fundraisers, new board members, I’m sure we have many board members listening right now, um, they’ll come to the organization. And they’ll say, oh, there are these huge companies that, in my case, I live in the Washington DC area, that are here in DC. They should be supporting my organization. At this time, I was a, uh, I was a volunteer, uh, development committee member for the volunteer Center, which I, you know, ended up working for later. And I said, all right, let’s go out to all these big companies, and let’s ask them to become involved. Let’s ask them to give a. And I, you know, wrote these beautiful letters and mailed them all out, right? Like, and nobody did because we didn’t have a connection. It doesn’t work. You cannot go in cold like that. You have to find the connection. Another thing that I did is I was, so the geo, the point is the geography is not sufficient. Just because they’re in, just because they’re in the DC area and so are you, doesn’t mean that they’re gonna, they’re gonna accept your funding proposal. And also a lot of times people go, well, this organization has a lot of money. It’s a big company and so there are big bucks available to you. We don’t know that. We don’t know that. So let’s get to know them and let’s see what is possible. Let’s ask them questions, you know, what, um, what types of causes do you support? Um, how do you give to. Uh, the, your organizations, um, is it through grants? Is it through corporate sponsorships? Um, is it through volunteer opportunities? What does your timeline look like for, um, giving, uh, you know, do we need to put in an application? Is there a certain period where they’re open, you know, where there’s open, um, Uh, RFPs and things like what does that process look like? There are some basic questions that you can ask, and that’s great. Um, and then let’s say that you apply for a grant and you don’t receive it. A lot of organizations do not receive those grants in the first go around. Um, and so don’t be afraid to call or reach out to the organization and ask to speak with someone to learn a little bit more about, um, why you were not. Funded and what opportunities may exist and then keep at it, right? Like, we don’t, we don’t succeed the first time every time we go after, uh, a gift, um, or anything really in life, right? Like it, it’s about, um, learning along the way, honing it and developing that. I, I can’t say it enough. It really is the theme of our, of our conversation today, but that relationship is so, so, so important. I, I, I, it’s great advice, uh, to, to follow up when you’re not funded. The, the same advice applies to, to private foundations. When they, when they reject your proposal. Your grant application, ask why. It’s the same, it’s the same on the corporate side. Uh, how do we come short? How can we do better? What didn’t, you know, you might learn, uh, total, you know, we just don’t fund that mission. Well, you, you probably shouldn’t have applied. You probably should have known that going in, but, you know, if it’s that flat, OK, then you know not to pursue that again. But it’s usually more nuanced. It was a diff, it was a close call. It was difficult, you know, we love the work you do, but there was another priority, you know, or something. So, OK, that’s encouraging for next year. Or, you know, but yeah, the, the relationship, you know, just because they said no, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go back and ask, how come? How come no? Yeah, yeah. And what kind of data are they looking for, right? Um, and there is a move towards more trust-based philanthropy. And so, you know, can you bring that into the conversation as well? I remember, uh, speaking with a woman who had started a nonprofit, and she went to, in this case, to a community foundation, and she said, look, you know, you’re asking me. To give a lot of data to you, uh, for a, a gift that is not a huge gift. And it’s a lot. It’s a lot for a one person shop. You know, how can, how can I do a good job of giving you the, the reporting metrics and the things that you need, um, in a way that makes it mutually beneficial. And, and, and, um. Realistic for me and my organization. Did the company concede a little bit? Did they, they, they did. They actually changed their, they, she joined their board, their advisory board, and they have changed and they have moved more towards trust-based giving. As a result of that, that person stepping forward and saying, you know what, this is a lot. This is a lot. So I also encourage. And this goes back to the relationship, right? Like, I encourage, um, uh, fundraisers and executive directors to go to these funders and say, hey, can we do this a little different? Or this is my issue right now. How can, how can we solve it? Is there a way? And in some cases it can’t be, but in others it is. I volunteer for a local food pantry. I go and I pick up food on the weekends, uh, from a major, major retailer, and I have to punch in a bunch of data that is not the same in their, like, little computer system right next to the door of how many boxes of this item and that item I got. It takes me probably, I don’t know, at least 5 or 10 minutes. To do it. I also have to count, like, what’s in 40 boxes of donated goods. And I take it to the, the food pantry, and the food pantry weighs it. They weigh it. And so, they are scratching their heads. They’re like, this corporate partner of ours is having us, that you collect data that does not equate how we are collecting data. Because we’re weighing the food, so we could tell them exactly how much, but instead they want it in boxes. There’s that like misalignment that actually can cause some friction in the way in which we, we, um, show up to report, right? Like to show impact, and it could be duplicative in some ways too. Or even counterproductive. And we’re, they’re measuring boxes, we’re measuring pounds. Or how many pounds in a box, and then we can, we can work together. Oh, you should see me because there have been times where I get some like loose things. I’m like, is this a box? Like what, what, what, there are 3 things in this box. Like, what does that constitute, you know, and, and what, what category do I put this in? Is this a meat? Is this a dry good? I haven’t heard the, the trend you mentioned toward trust-based, uh, giving of philanthropy. Uh, you’re, you’re seeing a, a, a move away from. So strictly database. Say more about that. You’re the, you’re the first person I’ve heard. Yeah, so trust-based giving, trust-based philanthropy is really in, in, uh, our funders saying, we get that you are going to put our dollars, you know, towards the greatest good, towards, you know, and you have good intention in doing that. And so in some cases, they, they completely scale back how, uh, an organization needs to report on that. That, um, there is a, I think it’s a bank that we work with, who was saying that they do calls. They’ll do like quarterly calls or semiannual calls, um, to hear how the gift is being used. And that’s when they get the stories that they can use in their annual impact reports. So, their corporate impact reports, they can put those really compelling things in there. But they’re trusting the organization to provide them with the, with the information that they need, but not make it so egregious on them from a data capture standpoint. The data is there, but it doesn’t have to be manipulated to meet their needs. Um, so that’s, uh, and we’re seeing that both with community foundations as well as corporate giving, um, and it’s wonderfully refreshing. Interesting. Yeah, I, I wonder if, I, I, I’m, I’m guessing, I’m musing here. I wonder if that’s, uh, any trickle-down from the McKenzie Scott method of giving, you know, she, she, from what I understand, she requires, you know, like a few metrics, uh, you know, I think it’s largely trust-based and, you know, for, for her major, you know, transformative grants. I wonder if that’s, I wonder if what you’re saying is trickling down from her. Our methods, uh, it certainly is impacting it, right, um, but I, it’s been around longer than that, uh, but it’s definitely gaining more steam, and, and so that’s super helpful, um. And we see, you know, uh, we also have seen a lot of this through, um, the GoFundMe’s, right? Like, and the, the fundraising that was being raised, uh, really starting around COVID era, uh, to support community. Hey, I’m going to give, uh, you know, $50 to help, um, buy a neighbor a new refrigerator because, you know, there’s died, right? So, so that we are. Experiencing trust-based philanthropy in many ways now and so it is, it’s another piece of it. Interesting. All right, so Kimberly, leave us with some Inspiring notes on corporate social responsibility and our, our, our, our approaches. You know, what, what, what we can, what we can yield if we’re taking your advice. Uh, I would say this, having spoken with many CSR programs in the past year, I can tell you that they want to do as much as they can to help our sector. Uh, they are deeply embedded in it, and they believe in the great work that everyone is doing. So, please don’t lose heart if you feel like the corporate sector is not giving as much as they should to your organization. or, or, you know, there’s that perception because it, it really isn’t there. I’m seeing a, a real desire to do more and be more creative in the ways in which they support organizations. So, so that is great, right? Like we know corporations care about our sector and want to do good. Um, and so then it’s a matter of how do we make the connections that we need. Need to have these deep, you know, corporate relationships. And that comes from diversifying your base of corporate supporters, um, always being on the lookout for new potential, um, sponsors and supporters, right? And, and looking at those relationships that exist through your board, your volunteers, um, and employees and other stakeholders. Right? Asking for introductions, um, going out and networking, those are great ways. I always look at it like a bull’s eye, you know, who is really close to our organization, and then how can we kind of look out and beyond, um, to find new connections. Um, don’t put all your eggs in one basket, right? Like one corporate partner is wonderful, but boy, if that’s your only corporate partner and they’re changing their strategy, um, or. They can no longer support you, that’s a big threat. So, so begin to, you know, think through what that strategy of acquiring more corporate donors looks like, and the discipline that it takes to build that, because they don’t always happen overnight. They can, it might take a year or 2 or 3. I loved your idea, Tony, of asking for, um, a multi-year gift. I think that’s really sound as you think about sustainability. Um, I think it’s also great if you can do any kind of virtual opportunities or small micro opportunities for your, um, uh, for volunteering with your organization, uh, get creative around that, uh, and then also celebrate your corporate partners when you can, through your own annual impact reports or your, your quarterly impact reports or whatever you do. Through your newsletters, right? Like, think about that. You don’t have to overpromote though. I think that’s another thing for people to think about is there’s no need to, unless it’s part of the relationship that was established, they don’t have to be thanked every single time in every single way, right? Like, have those conversations, but try to keep it in a way that really feels natural for your organization. And then also, um, well, I know you’re a little hesitant about the, the prospect of AI, what we know, we, we, uh, published an AI readiness report at the end of the year and we found that 91% of funders are expecting to see a positive impact from AI. We know that they, um, understand that nonprofits will be using this moving forward and that there’s. Great opportunity to, to scale down on some of the, the back-end work that, and time that it takes to do fundraising and engagement and other things. So, AI will help with that. So what AI is able to do is it’ll be able to help, um, you spend more time on those personal relationships, more time really thinking about how to maximize fundraising opportunities. And Um, that’s what gets me really excited. Folks can go and, and, um, check out our AI readiness report. We actually have a, like an AI readiness quiz they can take. Um, we’ve made some predictions for 2026 around how organizations are going to be using AI. And, um, and then just in, in kind of thinking about CSR, um, having it be a piece of your overall fundraising pie. Kimberly O’Donnell, Chief fundraising officer at, uh, Bonterra. You’ll find the company at Bonterraech.com, and Kimberly is on LinkedIn. Kimberly, thank you very much. Thanks for sharing all this. Thank you. It was great being here. Next week, your inclusive strategic plan in 5 steps. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at Tony Martignetti.com. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer, Kate Martinetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.