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Nonprofit Radio for April 25, 2014: Your Matching Gift Program & Your Board On Grants

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Adam Weinger: Your Matching Gift Program

Adam Weinger
Adam Weinger

Adam Weinger is president of Double the Donation. He’s got great ideas about starting or scaling your matching gift program. Who should manage? Check. Low effort marketing? Check. Best processes? Check.

 

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Cindy Gibson: Your Board On Grants

Cindy Gibson
Cindy Gibson

Introducing our newest contributor! Cindy Gibson, principal of Cynthesis Consulting, will be with us monthly, sharing her expertise on grants fundraising. To kick us off: Your board’s role in the grants process.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m very glad you’re with me. You know what? Because i would suffer the embarrassment of aural facial granuloma toe sis, if i came to learn that you had missed today’s show you’re matching gift program. Adam weinger is president of double the donation he’s got great ideas about marketing about starting or scaling your matching gift program. We’ll talk about who should manage it, low effort marketing, best processes and more, and you’re bored on grants all welcome our newest contributor, cindy gibson she’s, a principal of synthesis consulting, and she will be with us monthly sharing her expertise on grants fund-raising to kick us off this month, your board’s role in the grants process between the guests on tony’s take two what i love about planned e-giving we are sponsored by and i’m very thankful for, um, generosity siri’s very thankful, very grateful and thankful for their sponsorship, and i’ll say more about generosity siri’s shortly and it feels very good to be back in the studio haven’t been live and in the studio for. A few weeks feels good going to be back live, and of course we’ll have live listener love throughout the show. I’m very pleased that adam weinger is with us, he’s, the president of double the donation, providing tools to non-profits across north america and europe to help them raise money from employees matching gift programs double the donation was recently named one of the top ten startups in atlanta. They’re at double the donation dot com and adam is at two ex donations on twitter. Adam weinger welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It was my pleasure. You okay there? Yeah, okay, you’re sound well better now. Um, matching gifts, it’s the first time we’ve talked about matching gifts on the show, i’m glad you you brought the topic to me. How important are they to fund-raising? You know, they’re one of the areas of fund-raising that is often overlooked by non-profits annual fun giving is often a top priority. Major gifts is often a top priority, and matching gets kind of some bonus money that’s out there for organizations that can impact their budgets but just aren’t always being thought about in focused on by non-profit. Yeah, often an afterthought. Well, what are what are? What are some of the numbers? Why give us give us some some motivation for for being more more thoughtful about our matching gift program across the united states? There’s probably a few billion dollars annually that’s donated from corporations through their employees matching program, which is a substantial amount, but at the same time a lot of non-profits just aren’t focusing on it and aren’t really thinking about it and aren’t promoting importing matching gets to their donors. Yeah, i think there’s a concern that it’s kind of burdensome, maybe a little paperwork intensive. Ah, people don’t really know how to get started with it. So, you know, we’re going going try to dispel some of those some of those thinking some of those myths, this all started with general electric right in nineteen fifty for was that the first matching gift program? Yes, so we’re actually hitting the sixty year anniversary of the first employee matching program so gentleman named philip rito at one point was the chairman. General electric conceptualized the idea of a matching just program as a way to really inspire general electric employees to give back, and their program started focussing out on hyre agitates him, but has since expanded to match employee donations to pretty much any five oh, one c three organization, our matching gift programs on lee, part of employment if you’re at a very big company, or does it trickle down tto smaller size organizations? I don’t know. You know, there’s definitely a bias towards larger corporations with general electric, the ibm, the four eyes in bank of america of the world. But we also have been our own database tracks small companies. You haven’t fully matching the programs. I know. I was recently contacted by an individual who, um, runs a peanut butter manufacturing company, and he has thirteen employees and was looking to start up a match and get program. Okay, so all they’re predominantly at larger companies. Definitely. A lot of smaller companies offer them as well. All right, yeah. I mean, that peanut butter company could have been craft, but with thirteen employees that’s a pretty small business. Do you know the average matching gift donation to charities? Do we know that? So we know a lot of data on. I’m kind of the minimum and maximum center out there. So if i were do kind of ballpark the average minimum, i would say cos match donations starting at twenty five dollars, none too often times a few thousand dollars. So the maximum range between a thousand and fifteen thousand dollars annually pern employees, but in terms of the actual mountain that gets matched, it’s highly dependent on the organization’s donorsearch oh, is it is an organization’s donors, small donors or some larger donors? Is it common for a company to have a cap on an annual matching gift for foreign employees? Definitely so almost every company with a matching program does have a cap turn employees, and that range is typically between a thousand dollars heimans fifteen thousand dollars, but we do see cops ranging as high as fifty thousand dollars more there is even one company out there, which matches up to three hundred thousand dollars annually. Okay, what? What company is that? Three hundred thousand it’s sort of a fund management. Okay, it’s not too surprising its financial services. Okay, is there a way i’m sure there is? How would someone know what companies participate in matching gift so there’s a couple different ways? The first is just encouraging and organizations donors to check with their hr department, so we see a lot of small non-profits really taking that approach is including that recommendation in emails in the college of letters on dh, then really just a google search. You’ll see a lot of lists of companies out there, they may. Not be one hundred percent accurate, but they’re good starting spot. I’m and then also on our website, we provide free list with detailed information on some companies, as well as a searchable database of companies that match impolite donations. Okay, i was going to ask you if one of the sources is is more reliable than others. But i guess double the donations is the most reliable. Definitely. I mean, it really goes to the core of our business. Is maintaining a database of companies that match employee donations. Okay, what are the basics of matching gift program if an organization is on? Of course, our listeners aaron small and midsize jobs. That’s what? I think the topic is perfect because they may not be paying enough attention, as you suggested, teo, to imagine, give program what? What are the basics of it? So when you looked at each company’s guidelines, um, they have a few different standard elements of their matching its programs. The first one is really who’s eligible, so is it only opens full time employees or part time employees eligible as well or retirees eligible. And in many cases, retirees are the second element is which non-profits are eligible. So, is that all five oh, one seat, three organizations, or just certain types, such as arts and cultural or civic community organizations, huh? Third element is how much will a company match, so those minimums maximums, and then the fourth element is really the submission process. Okay, is it? Is it common for companies? Teo restrict the type of charitable mission that that they’ll give. Two, you see that a lot. About sixty or seventy percent of cases companies will match teo pretty much any five oh one c three organizations online. In the remaining cases, companies do restricted to certain types of organizations. That’s interesting. Are they restricting it by charitable mission or by geography, or varies, what do you see? It’s, very typically it’s by kind of a charitable mission? Well either restricted to education, arts and cultural organizations, civic and community organizations, environmental organizations, there’s, a few different broad categories, but in most cases, companies do match employee donations to non-profits based around the country. But it is typically north america non-profits or non-profits in the u s. Okay, we have to go away for a couple seconds when we come back course, adam and i are going to continue talking about your matching gift program, hanging there with us co-branding dick, dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding, you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving thinking. Think. Duitz do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent we’ve got live, listener love and how glad i am that i can send live love being back here in the studio. Ellensburg, virginia, atlanta, georgia salt lake city, utah live listen her love to you let’s go abroad in china nongaming ni hao also we’ve got sakai tokyo and couture you she could dock you she japan konnichi wa i hope i said the name of your city correctly is not your not your last name, so i don’t feel as bad i’m not getting a person’s name wrong it’s a it’s a city, although i do try with cities too, but i don’t feel as bad as if it was a person. Any case konichiwa to our japanese listeners and, of course, to those nine thousand listening in the podcast, whether you’re on the subway, on a treadmill, in a car, maybe you’re at your office. Maybe you’re supposed to be listening to your kids podcast pleasantries toe all our podcast listeners adam weinger he’s, president of double the donation and we’re talking about your matching gift program, adam, if an organization is not currently doing much, or maybe doing nothing with matching gif ts. How do they get started? I think the first step is figuring out two at an organization is responsible for match. Yes, we talked to organizations all of the time where they’re doing very little, but the big problem is the organization doesn’t even know who’s responsible. So i think that first step, who figuring out well, does fall to an annual fund director, does it fall to someone from the corporate giving team, or should it be a volunteer’s responsibility? Okay, now, you know, organization that has the luxury of choosing from those onda lot of organizations, don’t. It might just be two or three people, and one person is devoted to everything. Fund-raising so it will be. We’ll be clear where it falls for them. But for an organization that has that luxury, where do you like to see the matching gift responsibility? We always recommend that it falls under the annual funds, um, just because they advantage a large number of communications that go out to their donors. So we think it’s a good fit in the annual fund department and the data that we’ve seen shows that that’s where it falls in most organizations, okay, all right, so once we’ve decided who’s in charge of it, what what do we do next? Geever the first step is really evaluating how the organisation is currently promoting that gifts. So looking through the organization’s website and seeing if there’s any wording of any time that even references magic gifts, looking through the acknowledgement letters that go out after someone makes a donation and seeing what those say are they prompting donors to think about matching? Yes. So our recommendation is i’m kind of evaluate your organization’s current marketing and see where there are opportunities to incorporate matching gift for this, ok, what what kind of matching gift messages do you like to see? You mean, you had said earlier something as simple as looking, asking donors to find out from there their employers if they have a matching gift program? What other marketing? Do you recommend right at the bare minimum? We think organizations should be saying, check with your hr department, okay, that’s the least you should be doing. Yeah, and then as you move up, i’m kind of in your matching get sophistication, starting to share examples with your donorsearch so if you’re non-profit is based in atlanta sharing examples about coca cola’s matching just program and home depot’s matching your program so that way you’re familiarizing your donors with what they are and how they work. And when you say share the details, what what would you be sharing? Um, you know, just a paragraph on a few different companies, i’m so we’re sending out a matching gift email to all of your donors you want to say? Did you know many companies offer an employee matching program? For instance, home depot will match employee donations up to one thousand dollars per year per an organization, huh? And you can submit your matching gift online so just something very, very simple that shares a few additional details about one or two companies. Sametz so you see you are you’re recommending some some communications that air devoted two matching gif ts or or you’re suggesting you see this as part of an annual fund appeal or some other some other appeal, i think of various end of the year email to all of our organization’s donorsearch is pretty valuable and easy to send, and then i also think that match and if should be incorporated into kind of the ongoing messaging that goes out. So in a tax receipt letter that he sent to a donor after they make a donation, that’s a great spot to change the organization’s conflict that we’re using to highlight match and guess, do you get frustrated at all? Because matching gift is sort of ah, you had said a step child or an afterthought. Does this, uh, this cause you personal frustration? Much? Not really, and it makes that matching gifts are never going to represent fifty percent oven organizations fund-raising so i definitely don’t get frustrated by it. I looked at all of the opportunities for organizations to make small changes in what they’re doing that could be very impactful. Okay? You’re you’re you got a better outlook than i do. I get frustrated that plant e-giving cause i do plant e-giving consulting is often a step child, you know, i on da. It has great potential as matching gift programs do. But, you know, i get a little frustrated sometimes, but i see it as an opportunity to teo help evangelize and spread the word. Um what what are somebody too? Pardon me. Sorry, tony. I guess i do get a little frustrated when you know we’re talking with larger organizations and they’re such easy winds out there. I mean that they’re small changes that an organization can make that would be very impactful. But for whatever reason, they’re not making those changes disappoint that in some cases, it’s okay, to share a little frustration, you know, it’s not, you know, not like think you’re going to be shooting people’s heads off for anything over it. But it’s okay, you know, have a little frustration. That’s ok? That’s it’s an opportunity. What are what are some of the small changes? And maybe you’ve already mentioned them, but you’ve mentioned just now. You said it a couple times. Small changes that organizations could make toe have a big impact. What are what are some of those small changes? It’s really? Two things the first is having no one being responsible for a match. And, yes, effort at an organization. Yeah, we hear from organizations that sometimes when a donor sametz a matching gift form, no one is even verifying the the donation and it’s going on claims because of that. So having a point of contact that the organization is important and working through the marketing effort. Okay, now we’re getting to the nuts and bolts a little bit, which is very good, you said, validating the the new one’s, validating the donation. How does that work in the program? Hyre so there’s a couple steps for when a donor sametz rematch and guest the first is that the donor needs to tell their company that they made a donation to an organization. So going back to home depot um what say your organization? As a donor who works for home depot, they made a two hundred fifty dollars, donation. Tina organization, the donor needs to walk into home depot’s matching gift website with their employees, user name and password, and registered the fact that they made a donation and then home depot will mail you a letter or send you an e mail to the non-profit asking non-profit to verify that in fact, the donor did make a donation. Oh, and then sometimes these emails or other communications go unanswered, and then the money is left on the table. Yes, so fey non-profit doesn’t respond to the emails or to the letters the company cannot verify that the donation was actually made, and we hear about that from organizations on a somewhat regular basis that they were viewing past donations and realized that a lot of the match tells older nations never actually got claims. Oh, my goodness, that’s never. Okay, i would have thought that that would just be done as a matter of course, but you’re you’re saying, since nobody’s in charge of it, it falls between the cracks and money’s left on the table. Yes, that’s, exactly it. Okay, all right, um, all right, so let’s, go back, tio getting started. We’ve identified who’s in charge, and we’re thinking about marketing. Now, what else? What else do we need to be doing to get this program going? Those were really the core for a lot of small non-profits because i know a lot of your westerners do fall into a smaller side. You know, my recommendation is find a volunteer who’s very organized. You can really delegate your matching gift efforts to altum someone who may not have the means to donate large amounts of money but wants to support your organization. It can really improve your matching gift effort just by being focused on that. So looking through your through an organization hyre value donors figuring out where they were and reaching out to them to see if there eligible to submit a matching gift. Okay, so this is something that we should be. We comfortable delegating teo to a volunteer in a smaller organization. Yeah, one hundred percent, especially if an organization doesn’t have the staff. She focused on matching gifts. It’s, an area of fund-raising that can be delegated to a volunteer. Okay, let’s, let’s, explore the marketing a little more. Do you have a preference for channels? Email over direct mail over social networks. So emails obviously a very affordable channel for non-profit to market matching. Yet we do see some organizations that used direct mail. But what we always you recommend. Organizations think about it’s, kind of the cost per piece to send a letter. Andi, if they’re going to use direct mail to only send matching gift forms and guidelines and communications out to some of their hyre and donors. So built sunday paper letter to a donor who made a twenty dollar donation. You just been organization. Just won’t see the ah rely on that. Okay, hyre dollar donate hollered hyre dollar donors ah, other other message you had suggested making this part of the acknowledgement letter that sounds like a very good idea to it’s a perfect time for the gift has already been made, and you’re now saying thank you seems like a perfect time to think about the have the donor think about a matching gift possibility definitely in the acknowledged that letter in the tax receipt, a letter that goes out and then he’s knowledge on emails um, and then you wouldn’t actually mentioned social media, and we see a lot of organizations promoting match and gets on social media when they were see vacek from a company um, they’re sometimes taking a picture the check and posting it to social media as a way to encourage other donors to think about that again. Oh, yeah, cool and but, yeah, yeah, now you got this visual, it encourages the program. You could put that on twitter, instagram, facebook, even okay, yeah, that’s a really simple thing to do. Take a picture of a check in it’s, a simple post and we have a variety of graphics and images on our website. As well that non-profits are welcome to use too share across different social media networks. Do they have to be working with double the donation? Tio take advantage of that. They don’t weigh just a variety of free graphics because we know there’s a lot of smaller organizations out there who may not be ready to sign up for double the donation service, but so benefit from some of the craft that we’ve created, as well as our entire marketing toolkit, which really had suggestions and examples for organizations know excellent that’s, very generous. We do him good. Um, of course, that’s double the donation dot com, since they’re so so gracious e-giving mouth shout, um, do you have? And people go to our website makes it actually access those marketing materials down in the footer. Mom it’s, the last link in the bottom of our web page under the section resource is it’s called matching your marketing materials outstanding. Excellent. You have a little ah case story of ah organization that that you saw turned things around and make a substantial difference in their in their fund-raising. Yeah, i mean, we share from a lot of organizations that we work with a lot of very positive feedback. So the lazarus cancer foundation, which is out in california, um, signed up with our service, i believe it was back in december of twenty twelve and wasn’t doing a whole lot back-up to promote matching yes, and they really implemented a number of our strategies across multiple of their fund-raising website it’s across all of their communication strategies, and, you know, we’ve seen some of the different figures on how much they’re bringing and now for matching gifts first, this previously and there’s been a substantial increase. Um, i don’t want to share the exact because they don’t have their profession, but we hear a lot of great feedback from organizations who make simple changes. Okay, we have ah, question from lynette singleton she’s, a big fan of the show, and she’s live tweeting the show, and you can follow her tweets that using the hashtag non-profit radio annette, thank you very much for tweeting very dahna grateful is the word i’m looking for very grateful when you’re able to do that, thanks for joining us, and she has a question, adam, what about you saying something on the on the online donation page? It’s a great spot to promote match and guests we see a lot of organizations who, um either pavel line on the online donation page that says, you know, check to see if your company will match your donation. Other organisations asked for a company name and then passed that name along to the individual who’s responsible for the organizations match and get efforts so that way they can look up that employer andan, other organizations who subscribes to our service. I’m actually include at length to a searchable database of companies with matching of programs, says they empower their donors too access forms and guidelines and company specific information directly while making a donation. We have to leave it there, adam weinger is president of double the donation there at double the donation dot com, you’ll find him on twitter at two ex donations adam, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It’s been a real pleasure. Thank you. Matching gif ts, of course. Excellent way to raise money, but so is a five k run or walk and generosity. Siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks. I am seed there five k run, walk in brooklyn a couple of weeks ago, great fund raised a lot of money for ten charities that were there. Generosity. Siri’s does the back end work from t shirts, race bibs finish your medals. They have professional chip timing. They take care of getting the permits and licenses that air needed. They take care of getting the portable restrooms and the fluid stations on the course of the photography. Videography they take care of all this back end, um, and also provide each of their charity partners with customised web pages for your charity. And also, of course, for your participants. So for their fund-raising and generosity, siri’s has a charity support team which helps you with your team building and your fund-raising that that charity swat teams there to help you. They are at generosity siri’s dot com. They have events coming up in new jersey, florida, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia, toronto. You can just pick up the phone, you know, heard me say this before for other sponsors. When it’s to pick up the phone and talk to the person, have a conversation. Um, you would talk there at general city serious to dave lynn. L i n n he’s the ceo they are at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven seven one eight five or six nine triple seven just talk to them, see what? See what they’re about and how they can help you and how you could become a part of one of these multi charity events that they host throughout the country. And ah, last week i called them so erroneously this is terrible generation siri’s, so i apologize for that is not generation siri’s that was if i had an intern, then the intern would have written out there were the name general city siri’s and i would not have abbreviated it last week g end. So i blame the intern that i don’t have since i don’t have an intern to blame. I blame the one i don’t have because it’s clearly not my mistake. Generosity. Siri’s is our sponsor working with our elders, those who are in their seventies, eighties and nineties. It is what i love about doing planned e-giving work i’ve been doing plan giving for seventeen years, eleven years in my own business, and i love working with older americans. They have this peace. About them and this comfort. Um, that is just an ease. You know, they’re not thinking about business development and social networking. That stuff is well, social networking is too some of them very foreign, or they’re just basically just scratching the surface of it and business development. That is like decades old for them. And this just leaves them with a harmony and a piece. And i just love that. And it’s it’s what i really love about planned e-giving and i say more about that on my block there’s a video on my block where going to a tiny bit more detail about why i love working with our elders. That is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty fifth of april seventeenth show of this year. I am very glad that we have a new monthly contributor. Her name is cindy gibson. Welcome cindy. Hi. Thanks for having me. My pleasure, she’s. Our newest contributors. She’s going to be covering grants fund-raising month to month she’s our prep today, emmick she has a phd and over twenty five years of experience with non-profits, she’s had leadership roles for several national foundations and non-profits so she’s been on both sides of grants. Manship she was a non-profit times top fifty power and influence, sir cindy is principal of synthesis consulting. You’ll find her on twitter at sin gib si n g i b and synthesis consulting is see why end t h e s i s welcome to the show, cindy. Thank you. I’m glad you’re able to be in the studio first time. I’m happy to be here. It’s exciting, you’re going to be usually calling in from from boston indeed. Okay. Oh, can i say something about matching gifts? You certainly you just cover that. Just a little tip for your listeners. You might not know this, but if all of you listeners, if you have a friend who works in a foundation, a lot of foundations give two to one or three two one matching contributions for their employees who have a favorite non-profit on want to give a contribution. They can submit it to their office in the foundation and they’ll give you a match. Excellent. Adam didn’t mention foundations. Thank you very much. We want to talk about you’re the board’s role in grants fund-raising just rolled their eyes incredibly. All right, so i just thought, why is that big eye roll? What are you seeing in boards or not seeing inboard? Well, i think it’s funny because everybody always that’s like the standard topic. What? How can your board helpyou? Fund-raising and as any good fund-raising will tell you, it’s just it’s sometimes is this a fan task to get your board involved? And the grants are no exception on dh so well, we all love our board members it’s always an ongoing slog to try to get them to appreciate the their their role and fund-raising and so a lot of what we’re going to talk about spills over toe all different kinds of fund-raising but we’re the tap your expertise on grantspace ship specifically to the extent that there’s something specific to grants. But, yes, we have had guests urging, imploring, beseeching non-profits to doom or with their board. All right, how do you suggest we get started? What should we be saying at our next board meeting or before or before? So we all know it’s relational, how many times can we say that it is? But i say this all the time and i’ve sat on boards, and i watched boards, and i funded big intermediaries that do this kind of capacity building. And they all say that you really have to work on building a culture of philanthropy on your board. And what that means is it goes beyond, you know, the development director of the executive rector coming into a meeting and saying, hey, board members, who do you know what this foundation or you know, who do you know, the trustees? Do you know the president, which is great if they know them, but it has to go beyond that. It has to go beyond okay. How do you know them? Are you willing to reach out to them? How are you willing to reach out to them? Is it a letter? What is your role in getting to them? So it goes beyond just sitting around and saying to aboard, hey, give us the names and i’ve watched boardmember that the’s means literally throw pieces of paper on the drum director and there’s no time at all to sit with them and strategize. You know, you really need to have the strategy, the strategy with them just well, okay, here’s, i identified i named the name or i picked check the name off on the list. You take it from here, right? And i’ve seen that on dh some and then development directors or exactly directors walk away, and then they they’re very frustrated because they don’t know what the relationship is, and they don’t know how willing the boardmember is to follow up on it. So you the more you can get the board members and in my opinion, devote time at every board meeting to do this process to not just say, okay, boardmember is writing ball down, but okay, let’s, have a discussion, then you know our so and all brainstorm about how each of these board members in their contacts could move this forward together. Every strategy is going to be different for every funder as we know. So the third step of that is prioritizing. Which ones do you think are the most promising relationships that the board members have have identified with foundations or otherwise on which ones we’re gonna concentrate on. And then finally, what? The next steps were going? Teo, you know, really codify it so okay. So you you’ve given us a lot there. We’ll waive time, tio unpack. I had to talk fast. Okay. Don’t weigh have twenty five minutes. You don’t need to and there’ll be other months to your coming back. So we can always continue which we i’ve done with contributes before so it’s not a problem don’t okay in terms of prioritizing well now let’s seemed to take a step back before that. You want to see this at every meeting and then a discussion around strategy, just like we do with individual fund-raising now we don’t necessarily do it at a board meeting, although we may. Tuas well, but we strategize about individuals all the time. Who’s the better. Okay, we’ve identify who’s the best person. How are we going to do when wei have something coming up that they should be invited to? Or should it be maura oneto one is should we just be engaging them in our communications? Good. I just threw out three things. There’s all kinds of ways. And i think that the big challenge with bored, bored people come on boards and they think i’m going to be asked to fundraise, you know? And you really have to sort of give them a set of options like you just did very well, but i can’t stress enough you made the remark about doesn’t have to be at the board meeting, i found that it really needs to pay that’s part of the culture thing that i’m talking about literally setting aside that time in a meeting and making for everybody’s sitting there and that’s what they’re focused on for a period of time, almost in grains, a sense of value into the exercise, and then it makes people automatically think, oh, i’m going to this board meeting, i’m going to have to start thinking about it, and then i’m going to have to start and actually, you know, at the end of these sessions, if you have time to go around the room and say to each boardmember how are you going to follow up on this this contact that you just gave me saying it out loud in front of your peers? There’s some sort of contract there, and you can go and people were taking notes, you go back and say, well, you said you did this, okay, so you want to see the regular part of the agenda and it’s adding gravitas to the whole conversation because you’ve said, like you said, and i said in front of people and, oh, and you’ve got a you’ve walking away with some responsibility and, ah, a meaningful responsibility for a boardmember okay, um, in terms of the prioritising you mentioned, um, a lot of people, i think, get one off requests from boardmember zx could even sometimes even worse, i come from the executive director or ceo look at this grant that looked this grant that so and so, god, what will we do that kind of work? Send them a proposal? What do you do with that? Those kinds of one ofthe requests, which cannot, you know, sometimes you’re not so infrequent, they’re not infrequent that gets tow the prioritizing thing, you’re right. I mean, you could go around the room and talk to your board members, and you will always hear the there’s always one boardmember that we’ll say at least one ah, i know somebody at the gates foundation or i know somebody at the hewlett foundation, which are huge foundations and and while it’s actually really good to have someone on your board, who knows somebody there when you start to dig down with, um, it’s, may not be somebody that’s really the dirac act conduit or somebody who can really move things at that foundation and that’s what i mean about so that to me, that’s not a priority right now down the road? Sure, you know, give that boardmember time to get to that person, right? A couple of emails, maybe go out to lunch, test that relationship out to see if it’s worth pursuing it’s, the board members that have really the have direct relationships very close relationships with funders that are not a cz thie odds aren’t as stacked against you on dh for small non-profits that’s usually your local foundation or your community foundation are or a family foundation. Those are the kind of relationships we’re going to see that’ll probably go to the top of the last first, and then ps the more you get that kind of funding as a grounding. Ah, the more national thunders will pay attention to you because the first question that national foundation’s will often say is, do you get any local funding if you’re so cocopa non-profit and if you don’t, it is a red flag, they will say, we’ll come back to us when you can show that you actually have traction where you live first. So so that’s what i meant, okay, excellent. You like the foundation center for for grants, research att this point where we’re finding out what charitable missions, different organization, different foundations of funding and who boardmember czar like the foundation senator labbate i’m a big fan, the foundation center when i was a funder, we funded it and they continue to be the place to go. Ah, and they’ve gotten much more sophisticated. They’ve had a turn in leadership and the person who runs a broad smith is extremely technologically savvy, and they’ve really transformed it, teo, a real state of the art search and john that being said, of course, now there’s other sir tensions out in the world. I mean, you’ve got google and you’ve got, you know, i have to do is google something and you’ve got guide star, you know which part has all the nine nineties available, which you’re probably your best resource in terms of seeing who that foundation has funded before and who’s on. The board and you know, the all those kinds of things. So, you know, there’s, a wealth of materials, but certainly the foundation centers a great resource. Okay? And, of course, they have their cooperating collections exactly throughout the country. Clay on dh if you can get to a cooperating collection library. It’s absolutely free and there’s, always a librarian, that’s helping you sure there to help you, but it’s always online, too, and you can go right directly to the centre and get the website and go to their resource is pretty quickly, but okay, but then there’s ah, is there a subscription fee? If there are there’s bundles and packages, you can get your sorry, okay, no, no, no, that that was for me. You haven’t been in monisha. Um, that was sam. Give us a hand signal and cindy’s, yes, my feeling, secure, apologizing. That was for me. What do we do when we get these one off requests that aren’t such a high priority? And it does come let’s say, from a volunteer before boardmember now key, build it up and make it the worst case scenario a significant boardmember has suggested that we do go to the hewitt foundation or ford or great gates, or or what is something that’s just not a good fit, whether it’s enormous or not it’s, not a priority. What do we say to him or her so that they feel their request has been honored but isn’t going to be immediately handled, right? Well, we say that’s a really stupid idea, and you’re off the board now know it was a different scenario way. Well, that’s going to depend on your relationship with the boardmember but i think most port members, if you say to them, we really love the idea that you know, these people, i mean it again, it is a really great thing if you’ve gotta boardmember who’s gots and into some real money on a foundation, but, you know, we really just have to take our time and pursue that relationship over a little bit longer. Time period, until we build up our base of other founders that they’re going to pay attention to that sort of what i just said, okay, going back to it, yeah, so we could we could make it a lower priority that way cracked, we’ve gotta lay the groundwork before we could be, but in the meantime, but in the meantime, they should be, you know, sure, sending an email, little heads up and saying, you know, look, i’m on the sport of this non-profit and they’re great, and i know you probably can’t fund them now, but, you know, can we send you information or can we go to lunch and just sort of do an informational meeting, you know, again there’s the eye, i think it’s all good, i think all of that sending funder stuff, even though you know, they’re not going to read it, you never know on dh e mean, you may assume they’re not going to read it, but you never know and just them seeing it across their desk periodically, over and over again, they’re going to start seeing your name and associating it with an organization that maybe they should touch, too. We gotta go away for a couple of minutes. We come back cindy gibson, and i’ll keep talking about your board on grants. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got lots of live listener love bangkok, thailand olivos, argentina welcome, argentina. We don’t get too many south american listeners. Welcome and seoul, south korea on your haserot hanoi, vietnam welcome. We don’t get too many from vietnam, but occasionally you’re you are with us. Glad you are coming back to states new bern, north carolina, las vegas, nevada live listener love to you, um, cindy gibson, our new ah monthly contributor on grants fund-raising talking about the ah, the culture of fund-raising on your board. I know you have a lot to say about the culture. Uh, what else? What else would you like to see? So i thought one of the things i wanted to mention is we always talk about how to get boardmember is more involved in to strengthen the fund-raising culture, but we very rarely talk about some of the challenges and the downsides of port involvement in some of this. But you do want us to have our board involved? Absolutely okay, theirs and i wanted to put through a few cautionary notes on their and and one, of course, is that has been a subject of huge debate is whether foundation board members foundation should sit on non-profit boards on dh that has been very, very controversial, but it’s becoming a more common practice. And so this is what let’s set the stage was not something that i’m aware of a lot the foundation is funding your organization could be yours could could be just a foundation funder who can’t find you necessarily, but it likes your organization on dh asks to be on your board or, you know, somebody nominates ok, ok, go ahead. So this this sort of came about is a bigger trend about well, fifteen years ago, um, and it sort of came out of the whole venture philanthropy world where business people were becoming more and more hands on. I wanted to be more and more involved in the things that they were funding through their foundation or through there, their individual giving. What have you? And they started asking to be on boards on dh non-profits i think at first were yeah, those so win win, it’s great, you know, to get this big funder on our board, but over time, some non-profits came to see it as a hindrance because they were either huge conflict of interests whenever a funders in the room, no matter what setting it is, people tend to shine for the thunder. Ah, they limited honest discourse, sometimes in the in the board room, even though they were all supposed to be peers. Everyone was painfully aware that this person sitting on their board had the potential to give the money or knew lots of people with money and tell them things that were going on that they may not have wanted share. Ah, in a personal story, when i was at a foundation, i had five non-profits come to meet with me and say that they wanted to have they want to see if i and some other mike funding peers could have an intervention with another funder who sat on two of the organization’s boards and was so so hands on and dictating. What? What this organization to do but everyone on the board and the organization was afraid to speak up and challenge him because he find it them so it’s. Just a cautionary tale about you might think that’s a great thing at first. But, you know, be careful with that. Okay? Excellent. What happens when you get a no from we’ve we’ve done all our due diligence and and even let’s say it was a boardmember connection and ah, we will return down. Um well, that’s, that’s always distressing and it’s hard not to take personally, but it’s usually not it’s usually a number of reasons that you get turned and we all turned down, and we all know that, but it’s particularly difficult, i think when you have a boardmember who is in a position of power already, and and you have to go tell them that you were turned down and they were the ones who may have shepherded this through, um, you know that boardmember has a personal relationship with with whomever and the funder, and they’re going to say what they need to say, you know, even if you’re not there, they’re going to have a personal conversation, probably with their friend at the foundation, and find out what went what went wrong. But what i would say is is to not look at that as a clothes store unnecessarily is tio, then work with the boardmember how’s that relationship and go back to the funders and now and say, well, can you? Do something else for us. Can you call up five other funders for us? Can you do that? Sure. I mean, good program officers will do that. They really do see that as part of their job. Um, or can you do a funders briefing for us? You know, can you host a lunch way? Have george in jail on non-profit radio and i’m sorry too. In course you’re at you and you’re very well. Second appearance, but first, first as a monthly but it’s, easy to rebuild. Rebuild do-it-yourself were very easy. Rehabilitation and parole program. Ah ah! Funders memo what? What is that? So? So this is just a briefing. Let’s say let’s say that i want to dio i’ma non-profit and i want to talk to other funders. Buy-in non-profit i could go to x foundation who turned me down and say okay, you can’t fund us. But you know these five other funders. Urine. You know the miss colleagues. Could you have a lunch? Your foundation and invite your colleagues so we could present what we dio to them and it’s a briefing it’s really not asking for money, it’s, just here’s. What? We d’oh let’s. Have a conversation, and you can even do it with two or three non-profits, you know, have sort of, ah bigger event out of it, and i have actually done a lot of those, and i know lots of other funders have done that as well on, and they’re a lot of them are glad to do it. So you get if you get the right non-profits there and the right mix of funders, the conversation could be really great. I mean, could be very rich because you start talking about the issues that large, you know, so excellent, right? But there’s, no money on the table necessarily not necessary. Just we’re opening up, we’re opening the door ok? Yep, exactly. And also that no is not the final answer. I mean, there, there’s there are other funding cycles, and they’re going to be other years and opportunities. Yeah, exactly. And something you just have to say to them, is this a definite no. Can we come back? I mean, you really have to clarify because next time you come on, you want to ah, you want to talk about what makes a good proposal, right? That’s under it, that’s. Great. Okay, am i out of jail now? Oh, yeah, you were yeah, it sze not hard to get out, but it’s. Pretty simple to get in because i’m jumping at the chance to put people into jargon. Jail jumping. Cindy gibson synthesis consulting is her practice see y in th e s i s and you’ll find her on twitter at sin gib glad you’re with us for a month the month anger in my pleasure. Thank you. Next week it is going to be, um, accounting professor brian mittendorf about using numbers in your stories and i promise you we’re not going to have a dull accounting lecture. We’re going to start with finding out how it is that always asset equal liabilities guy would like that explanation that from when i when i quit my accounting class at carnegie mellon university about two weeks into it, i want to know this magic of how assets equal always equal owners equity plus liabilities. If you could explain that to me. Well, well, i don’t know what i’ll do, but i’ll just be i’ll be excited, so this is not going to be dull. Counting conversation using numbers in your stories, that’s what we’re going to talk about. Also, maria simple, our prospect, research contributor returns and she’s going to have some wisdom. Of course, she’s, our doi end of dirt, cheap and free resource, is never lets us down there. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz, is our line producer. Shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell, social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio, helping me when i go to conferences and do remote interviews. John federico of the new rules, this music, you’re listening to it’s by scott’s dying be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. They didn’t think dick tooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to talking on turn their network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking.

Picture of Tony Martignetti interviewing Sheila Kelly, Pamela Mohr, & Wendy Kleinman at Fundraising Day New York 2013

Nonprofit Radio for July 26, 2013: The Event Leadership Puzzle & Back To Board Basics

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Picture of Tony Martignetti interviewing Sheila Kelly, Pamela Mohr, & Wendy Kleinman at Fundraising Day New York 2013
Interviewing (R to L): Sheila Kelly, Pamela Mohr, & Wendy Kleinman at Fundraising Day New York 2013
Sheila Kelly, Pamela Mohr, & Wendy Kleinman: The Event Leadership Puzzle

From the Association of Fundraising Professionals’ NYC Fundraising Day in June, our panel solved the puzzle for honorees, chairs, hosts and committees, from goal setting and recruitment to motivation and thanks. I was with Sheila Kelly, vice president of development at The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research; Pamela Mohr, executive director of FACES at NYU Langone Medical Center; and Wendy Kleinman, president of WK Planning.

 

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Gene Takagi
Gene Takagi: Back To Board Basics

Gene Takagi, our legal contributor is back. This month we’re talking about who belongs on your board and for how long. Should your CEO be on the board? Is it OK if your CEO chairs? How about other employees? Should you have term limits? Gene is principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO).

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s july twenty sixth i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope that you were with me last week. I would suffer atrial fib relation if it came to my ken that you had missed maria cuomo cole on relationships miss cole, a philanthropist and board chair of help yusa, shared the professional value of all her relationships, including her mom and how they’ve helped her and help yusa succeed. We talked at the june meeting of executive women in non-profits part of new york society of association executives and tumbler tactics, amy sample ward, our social media contributor, co author of social change, anytime, everywhere and ceo of and ten, explained the value of tumbler, how to decide whether you should be in it and how to get started this week, the event leadership puzzle from the association of fund-raising professionals, new york city fund-raising day in june, our panel solved this puzzle for honorees, chairs, hosts and event committees, from goal setting and recruitment to motivation. And thanks, i was with sheila kelly, vice president of development at the michael j fox foundation pamela more executive director of faces at noon you langone medical center and wendy kleinman, president of wk planning also back to board basics jean takagi are legal contributors back this month. We’re talking about who belongs on your board and for how long should you ceo beyond the board? Is it okay if your ceo chairs? What about term limits? Jean is principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take two my block this week is women’s touching relationship stories my pleasure now to bring the event leadership puzzle to you from fund-raising day new york city last month here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in times square in new york city, and our subject now is event leadership with me r sheila kelly, vice president of development for the michael j fox foundation for parkinson’s research on in the middle is pam moore, executive director of faces at noon you langone medical center, and wendy kleinman, president of wk planning limited ladies welcome it’s a pleasure, wendy let’s, start down the other end. There what what’s the trouble with that non-profits have of the challenges that they have around event leadership. Well, i think there are a lot of non-profits today, everybody is vying for the same dollars and everybody’s buying for the same audience everybody would like to have the same leaders at the helm, many of whom have been over asked, and i think it’s also it’s identifying, you know, the right match when you invite somebody to take on the leadership role it’s important that you identify what the organization’s needs are and you try to find the right person teo approach that matches and believes in your mission and who feels that they can help you raise the funds you need. Okay, pam, these thes leadership positions can take a lot of different titles, right? A lot of a lot of possibilities. What a quaint listeners with what, what the scope is that we’re talking about. It could be anything from being an honoree to an event where you’re expected to bring in a certain amount of revenue, either giving it or getting it. It could be whether you’re chairing an event, it could be whether you’re sitting on a benefit committee vice chairing an event there are so many different titles, so many different forms of event leadership, but the most important common theme is that everybody needs to know what their expectations are in advance, so they understand what their role is in your event. Okay, making expectations very clear and i guess also gold setting, i guess. Sheila, for the event itself. Yeah, it’s, it’s, tremendously important to be very clear from the outset what your goals are for the event, both from a revenue perspective and also just what you’re trying to achieve for the for the organization and making sure that the people that have a leadership role with that event no, what what they need to do to help achieve that goal on dh, that i think when you find the right people and they know that they are part of something that, you know, there’s there’s a distinct goal for they’re going to be more willing to sort of step up to the plate and take on what you’re asking them to d’oh okay, now we just have about twenty minutes together. So why don’t we start at least our focus and maybe we’ll end there. We’ll see with the committee. Get your volunteer committees. What? What? What kind of what committees are we looking to recruit? First, i think it’s very event specific. It depends on the kind of event that you’re hosting. So if you’re hosting a golf event, for example, your committee could be helping you plan the event. They could be helping you with all the details. But if it’s your gala and, you know, we have a large gala, really? We look to our committee’s simply for fund-raising and for forgetting new people to come to the event and to help us expand our network. So i think it’s it’s about being sort of clear about with the specific events what you’re looking for, people to d’oh. Okay. And how do you start the recruitment process? A tte michael j fox foundation for us for bone event volunteered for event volunteers. Now we really do look within our network. We have so many amazing supporters who care about our work. I think that that’s key. You want to make sure that the people who are are involved have a direct connection to to your mission and to what you’re what you’re trying to achieve and so looking within first before going outside makes a lot of sense because there are people right there who are going be willing and able to get involved, and so that’s that’s typically where we start and also people self select, you know you will have people within your network who will who will raise their hand and say, please let me know how i could be of help and it’s if that person is, is the right fit. You know you should take them up on that for sure, pam, what wanted your quaint listeners what’s the work of faces at the gnu lango in medical center? So faces stands for finding a cure for epilepsy and seizures. We are an organization within and why you and go on medical center that raises funds for research, education programs, advocacy for patients with epilepsy and their families. Okay, and where do you start your recruitment process for event volunteers? So i’ve lived two very separate lives, one working for a major health care non-profit and the other one now it faces, which has only been eight months what’s so amazing to me. About my job now is that i’m dealing with a grateful patient fund-raising so i work directly for dr orrin devinsky, who is the director of the comprehensive epilepsy centre at n yu, and we work directly with the people that we impact every day. So where i’m looking for events, volunteers or donors or chairs or honorees, they’re all people that have been impacted some way by the comprehensive epilepsy centre and a recipient of some service that we’ve provided so it’s building relationships with the existing folks that have been involved and seeing who they know that they want to get involved and then being introduced to new people. One of the things that were actually looking to do with our board is to create a board event. We really want to get the word out. People don’t know enough about epilepsy, seizures and how common it is, and one of the ways that we want to do that is not just our gala, because not everybody wants to come to a gallon, so we’re working with our board to develop an event where they invite some of the individuals that they network with so they can hear. About what’s been going on in the world of epilepsy right here. When did you have advice for smaller and maybe midsize shops that that may not have the internal constituency? Teo look to first for event volunteer leadership. Well, every organization has somebody who is in charge, and that person is out in the world all the time. So what we do is we try to encourage every mind, whether it’s, the board or it’s, a executive director or the director of development, or even if it’s a small committee made maybe two or three people that they should always remain cognisant of of a good candidate is just in their travels through life, you know, in the workplace or in their social life. Oh, you know, we mentioned earlier in the panel, you know, everyone goes to cocktail parties and many people have jobs full time jobs in addition to the non-profit work they volunteer for so on, and then, you know, you talk about what you do, and if somebody expresses an interest in wanting to learn more that’s someone who could be a potential candidate to get involved in your organization. So that’s one way of looking at the outside to bring people in, they don’t have the infrastructure to pull from, like, a donor of strong donor-centric urging those conversations and basically that’s essentially good branding to yes, people should all your people well outside fund-raising should always be talking well about the organization and and know what it’s needs are, i think, and those needs might be event leadership volunteering. Exactly. And i think it’s it’s learning how to talk about what the organization was also in a very friendly, approachable manner on dh to make it interesting because people want to know who you are, what you like to do and where you spend your time what’s our next step, then wendy, you’re the consultant on the panel what’s the next step, after we’ve identified some people who are potential leaders of the event, how do we start to approach? What should we be talking about with them? Well, i think you can you can meet on a one to one basis. Maybe initially, teo, explain all the different areas where the organization might need some health. It could be joining the committee. There might be a greater interest in the board, which has a bigger picture approach, or the gala committee, which might be specifically for one event. Uh, and everybody has their different strikes. Some people are better at selling table. Some people are better at bringing an auction items. Some people are better at selling journal. Latto. So i think, it’s it’s, having that discussion and trying to find someone’s comfort zone and really assess their capabilities, where their strengths are, ok? And i think it’s a mutual decision sometimes, and that makes a lot of sense for all volunteer positions. Really? Yeah, from the board. Teo teo. Someone who’s, doing something, not his time consuming but way, want to be engaging people where their interests are. Okay. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. 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So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney yeah. Sheila. Pam, do you want to share how you approach people for for these kinds of positions? Anybody wanna with your first up? You know, for us, really? It’s it’s, the relationship building in stewardship is is sort of the most important piece, right? And i think to wendy’s point people have different strength. And so when you find someone within your network, or or someone who’s new to you realising what they want to be involved in, there might be someone who is very interested in events. There might be someone who’s just interested in helping to to find new donors. There’s, you know, there’s lots of different ways that you can engage with people in it. What we what we refer to it, the fox foundation is giving someone a seat at the table, you know, having them feel that they are, they might. They have separate work outside of what, what they do with the foundation. But they are an extension of what we do and making sure that they feel that they’re armed with the right tools in the right messaging so that they can speak to the work of the foundation as well. I think that’s hugely important you want you want all the people who are associated with your foundation and with your mission out there talking about the things that are important and it’s the job of of the internal people to make sure that they have all the right information, that they’re on the support that they need? Absolutely what do we do now? So we’ve recruited suppose there are some committee members who aren’t quite pulling their weight, sam, i imagine that gets frustrating to those who are how do we how do we deal with that situation? I’ve dealt with that situation many times, so i think the first thing that actually needs to happen is and we had talked about this earlier is roles and expectations. I think that when you’re working with an event committee, the most important thing that you can do from the beginning is give them the rolls and expectations, so they understand exactly what’s expected of them this way. There’s really no question about what they’re supposed to be doing and what the result is supposed to be. These committee members need to be treated as leaders because most of them are probably leaders in their industry, they need to understand that the event that they’re working on, you know, the funds raised for this event are directly impacting the mission of the organization, and they have tto take ownership, and they have to own the actual event and understand that what we’ve, you know, and we’ve talked about this earlier during our session, what tends to happen is that if you do have individuals that aren’t pulling their weight on the committee, but you have people that are many times those people will almost self select away from the committee because they understand and recognize that they’re not doing what needs to be done in order to get to make it happen. Ok, in order to reach that goal, all right? That’s helpful? What if they don’t start self elected? Sometimes it could be it could be a problem, obviously, i you know, i’m a shoot from the hip kind of person if there’s somebody who’s not pulling their weight and they’re bringing the rest the committee down, it would probably be an individual conversation with that volunteer and letting them know that, you know, this is really what we expect for. The level of what this event is, perhaps this isn’t the right police for that particular volunteer, maybe there’s another part of the organization a lower level event, some sort of program we understand that they’re completely passionate about the mission and the cause, and they want to continue to remain involved. But maybe this particular event isn’t the right match for them and let’s identify what might work and as long as you know you can find that place for them, they’ll be happy. They don’t want to be a part of something where they feel like they can’t give what the other people are giving that’s also kind of, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not a comfortable place to be. I would think. Sheila, what about having the committee organize themselves in terms of who’s going to be a leader? Who’s going to take on? What do you prefer to see? The committees decide that among themselves or you appoint people once they’ve agreed to be part of a committee, appoint them to certain certain positions we typically help with a structure. This is it’s really more apparent in some of our smaller events that are led through? Our community fund-raising armed with team fox way. Find that people really do want teo want to know what what we need of them. And as we were talking about in the panel, people that do this for a living, we would probably we were all on a committee. We would self select ourselves, right? And we would be able to divide ourselves up. But that’s not everyone’s, core strength. And so i think guidance in this area is key. And if you if you have a group of individuals that are passionate and they want to help and they want to get involved, helping them with the structure is very important in terms of the overall success of the event. Okay? Anybody want to add tio having the committee cam or wendy having the committee decide among themselves and versus lending structure? I think that there are some individuals, you know, much like sheila had said there are some individuals that might know, you know, if we were on an event committee, we would probably know what we would be good at. Whether i would be really great it’s sponsorships and shell. It would be really great. A ticket. Sales or whatever that looks like and every so often you obviously want to honor the request of a committee member that says, i really want to work on this, you know, and what i usually do with the committee when i am dividing them subcommittees, i give them a interest for him and they’re going to fill it out, and they’re going to indicate what theywant, obviously, i don’t want to put somebody in a role where they’re selling something if their strength might be planning, but most of my committees that i have formed, we’ll have some sort of fund-raising, you know, commitment to it, but that level might very depending on each individual person, so i don’t necessarily let them make their, you know, they can select what they want, but in terms of the overall leadership structure and setting that up and dividing them up and letting them know and, you know, i’ve handled that as a development professional, okay? I’m sorry, wendy, was there something you want to add to that? Well, as consultants, we’re we’re a little bit more objective, and sometimes we can observe a committee in a different way because we’re not. Dealing with them every day like hammond, sheldon might be in the sense that their internal so, you know, we’re asked for opinion about almost everything when it comes to putting an event together, so that includes sometimes helping to identify who we feel or who we would recommend to be the chairs, for example, who shows the strength. Dahna and because sometimes the committee members themselves were just too close to one another that they can’t single each other out, so we’re standing a little bit apart, we could say, well, we think that she would be a great chair and then and that person would be a great co chair, and this person probably shouldn’t leave the auction the auction chair, for example, because they’ve been so influential ins and busy obtaining auction item, so sometimes the strength or more apparent to us and they are even to them, to the committee members themselves, so we just helped them identify that guy. What else can we say about these events leadership committees? I haven’t i haven’t asked you about more more advice around. Go ahead, i think one of the things that also came up in our most in the most recent panel that we just had is the importance of treating the committee as as a leadership group on treating them like a professional group of individuals who are there to help move the mission of the organization forward giving them, you know, in addition to setting the expectations that i mentioned before making sure that they have all the tools that they need in order to be the best that they can be, whether that’s making sure they have a budget, making sure they have a timeline, they need to understand what this event needs to gross. We need to understand the expenses behind the event, what it needs to net at the end of the day as well. They need to have those clear Job expectations 1 of the best examples that i had given is making sure that, you know, if let’s say you have a committee and they’re actually submitting a list and there soliciting individuals, making sure at the end of each week there’s a spreadsheet that’s organized by solicitor, so every single person on that committee understands what money’s come in, who is responsible for bringing it in how much and where they need to be to do this on a weekly basis. I’ll do it on a weekly basis during events season. Absolutely. So i think, it’s, just the same way that you would handle it like a business. You want to handle your event committee the same way they want to understand, they need to understand that you’re taking this seriously. This is serious. Without this money, the mission of your organization is not going to move forward, and i think if you treat it that way, they will treat it that way and it’s a mutually respectful and professional relationship. More more you want, i couldn’t agree more. I mean, transparency is imperative when you’re dealing with planning of events, and when you’re working with the committee, they need to know exactly what expense structure looks like what the revenue expectations are so that they can feel a part of it, you know, events event fund-raising is expensive. It’s it’s, one of the more expensive ways to raise a dollar and anyone that does it for living knows that. And so there’s always that balance of making sure that you’re keeping your costs down, that you’re doing that. You’re maximizing your investments, and again, many of these committees air filled with people who run their own businesses who have great perspective in this area and and using them to there, you know, to the best of their abilities is actually makes your event even better. It sounds like this kind of work for ah volunteer could be great cultivation to be, be enhanced, enhance the they’re their own giving, or maybe expand their volunteer rolls in the future. I mean, if there’s that kind of transparency and they see that it is run like a business, as you say, sounds great cultivation from or more activity, whatever, whatever, yeah, whatever form that takes, we’ve seen people move at at the fox foundation from someone who just gets involved at the team fox level who running, running a marathon and fund-raising from their peers to then joining, you know, our leadership council, which is sort of a junior board of directors, and you know that that level of engagement just continues, but it’s about making sure that you’re cultivating that relationship from the beginning in the right way, especially for people who want to who want to have a greater involvement with your foundation and i think it’s giving him that experience too, you know, it’s making sure that they’re having a positive experience. One of the best feelings that i have is when i’ve transitioned a committee that might not have been functioning as well in the fund-raising side and giving them these tools and providing, you know, changing the structure of a committee so that it functions the way we’ve been talking about and then having them get so excited about it. And then when they come to the event and they see this, you know, seamless, amazing galla golf cocktail party, whatever it looks like, they want to get more involved, and then they want to recruit other people to get more involved so it in turn by doing it this way, it might be a little bit more work on errand, but in the end, it’s going to increase our revenue and it’s also going to expand our relationships within the whole community. We have to leave it there, ladies. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Pleasure. All three. Thank you. Sheila kelly ceded closest to me. Is vice president for? Development. Michael j, fox foundation for parkinson’s research pam mohr is executive director of faces finding a cure for epilepsy and seizures at the gnu langone medical center. And when d kleiman is president of wk planning limited again. Thanks very much, ladies. Thank you. Thank you for being with me. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen. Thanks so much. And my thanks. Also to the organizers of fund-raising day twenty thirteen, sponsored by the association of fund-raising professionals. New york’s, greater new york city chapter. Gotta live listener love lots of new yorkers. Massapequa, new york, new york and brooklyn, new york. Welcome, live listener. Loved to you also new bern, north carolina. Gonna be there very soon, very soon. And washington, dc all up and down the east coast. Where’s there’s, nobody east of ah, nobody west of philadelphia and, well, we got santa. See joe argentina, that francesco or alejandra? And also ottawa, canada. Welcome live listener love to all of you will hit asia shortly. Right now we take a break for a couple minutes when we come back. Tony’s take two and then gene takagi with back to board basics. Hang in there. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hi there, welcome back, i want to also send along with the live listener love podcast pleasantries, especially to germany, gooden dog have lots of german listeners to the podcast, from a site called podcast that d so good in dog to all end and podcast pleasantries toe all the german listeners. Time for tony’s take to my block this week is women’s touching relationship stories? Remember last week you heard my interview with maria cuomo coal, which was pre recorded at a meeting of executive women in non-profits after that, we opened the discussion of relationships to the group and lots of women shared very touching stories of people who have been important in their lives and help their careers. And i included just a couple of minutes of the group discussion in last week’s clip, but the whole discussion was about twenty minutes and it’s really very uplifting on dh very tender, and that video of the video of that interview is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com and it’s, also on youtube, if you prefer to go there directly the channel israel tony martignetti cem very tender and touching stories from executive women running non-profits now and the audio is much better than it was in the clip that i played for you last week. And that is tony’s take two for friday twenty sixth of july thirtieth show of the year and show number one hundred fifty two. Jean takagi is with me. He’s, principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he is at gi tak on twitter. Hello, jean takagi. Welcome back. I’m tony, thank you for having me, it’s. Always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us from the west coast. We’re talking about cem cem board basics this month on dh specifically, who should be on the board. And maybe for how long? Let’s. Start with the well, let’s start before we get into individual people. Do you see trouble or or challenges a lot of times around who belongs properly on a board? Well, i think a lot of organizations right now, tony, are struggling with recruitment, trying teo attain diversity. Getting a different skill sets on the board. Different representations of populations. Um, at the same time, it seems that the boards are very underutilized asset of many organizations in terms of the valley that they’re adding, or at least in terms of how the ceo or the executive director perceives the value add of the board of directors. And i think i’m going back to some of the board basics. Is a good place to start and explore some of these issues about not only what that board could be doing. But what, what aboard should be doing. You since you mentioned the ceo and their role with respect to the board, we polled listeners before the show and asked if your ceo is a boardmember and forty percent said yes, sixty percent said no. Should a ceo be a boardmember great question, so i think they’re different stages of evolution of organizations where whether the ceo belongs on the border not may change, and i’m going to sort of give you kind of the lawyers disclaimer about that i’m dunaj unconscionable thoughts on this, but there’s always going to be some exceptions tease general rules, and my general thought is tony, is that once an organization is matured, having the ceo or executive director on the board of directors can be troubling because of the potential conflicts of interests that are involved. And the big one is that the board is responsible for overseeing, evaluating the performance of and determining the salary and compensation of the ceo at the same time. If the ceo is on the board that is overseeing himself or herself, you can see the inherent conflict that’s involved. What couldn’t they? Couldn’t they recuse themselves from any discussions off of those issues? Yeah. Absolutely, and i think that’s commonly how organizations treated so if they’ve got their ceo on the board, whenever it comes around, too evaluating performance or determining compensation, the ceo recuses themselves from the board and the rest of the board makes that decision. However, that seems teo sort of discount the possibility that decisions on programs and finance and budget don’t also affect the ceo personally and the ceo very may very well have a personal interest in all of those aspects of an organization that are very important for boards latto oversee and make decisions on, and if the c e o by virtue of being on the board, i can control the board discussion and analysis of these issues, then it really creates a problem and allows the board to sort of get away from from mid duties of acting as the check and balance to the ceo. So is it not sufficient than let’s? Say we have a boardmember i’m sorry, we have a ceo who’s a boardmember um if they can contribute, but they don’t vote sounds like i mean, they still could they still control the discussion, but then they don’t have final decision. Making authority because they’re not a voting member of the board. It’s a great question the night, you know, i see lawyers actually struggling with this idea in many states and in california, we actually recently made a change or a proposal to a change in in the statutes about what is a director, and i think for most lawyers, the idea they want to get across to their clients to their non-profit clients is that there really is no such thing as a non voting boardmember and the reason for that is because boardmember have fiduciary duties, and they’re ultimately responsible for the management of their organizations. So while they khun delegate duties, toe officers and executives and ceo, they ultimately hold responsibility for what happens with the organization, and you can’t really ultimately hold responsibility is a boardmember if you can’t vote on the issues ah, yeah, so there really is no such thing as a non voting boardmember nonvoting director. What you may have, though, is a ceo or executive directors that is invited to attend in and participate in all of the board meeting’s except when the board meeting go into executive session and determining when the board should go into executive session without having the executive director there so that they can actually tied it by themselves on independent of the director, determine what is necessary to direct the organization and the future toe oversee the organization, how it’s doing in the present and in the past and do a little of what i’m going to quote somebody else’s term that they coined the lucy markets is a governance expert out of the uk, and she calls a stargazing about planning for the future and trying to determine how teo look into the future and make sure that the organization is ready to be able to respond to future challenges and take advantage of future opportunities a great role of the board that they probably don’t do enough for most boards don’t do enough of this when the ceo is they’re trying to ground everybody to the present, sometimes that future stargazing aspect is lost. So those are some of the reasons why maybe the ceo just recusing themselves at certain times isn’t isn’t the best idea. Well, that kind of cells short, visionary ceos, i mean, every ceo is not going to be wedded. To what’s happening this quarter in or this year and i think a ceo could be visionary and be looking fifteen, twenty years ahead doing that stargazing also, yeah, absolutely. I think we would hope that that when when, as a nonprofit organization boardmember myself, we would hope that when we hyre are ceos that we are looking for somebody that that has that inherent ability to be able to stargaze and be a visionary and a champion of that vision. On the other hand, i think we know, especially for smaller organizations, tony, and you’re probably well aware of this as well. Ceos are so burdened by the work of the day to day management of the organization that sometimes they just don’t have the opportunities, even if they have the skills t able to engage in that type of stargazing and board members may be in better position to bring their valley. So that added value that we talked about that board may not be giving enough of to an organization that’s, a really strong air in which they could do it and having the ceo lead, that would be great if that’s possible and then having the board, you know, sort of be the counterbalance and check, uh, to the ceo. Perfect, but if if the board is just relying on the c e o to champion all of the vision and determine what the vision is of the organization, he may not have the healthiest organization around let’s, go back to something you said a few minutes ago, jean the that you can’t really have a nonvoting boardmember because that that abila gates, the fiduciary responsibility of a boardmember was that i’m sorry was that was that california law or that’s a california proposal? What? Well, that’s california law and i think, while it may not be stated explicitly in other statutes, are depending upon what state your urine, i think that’s the general idea of most, if not all, of the states, that we’re not really supposed to have somebody who is a boardmember with the fiduciary duties of a boardmember, but otherwise unable to to vote on any of the issues do corporations for-profit corporations struggle with this? Also mean, my sense is that it’s routine for a president ceo to be a board member of a corporate board? Do you do you know? Do they struggle with this the same way? Non-profits are they absolutely do? Tony, this is a major topic of controversy and has actually been hitting twitter a lot in the for-profit circles as well among the governance experts and it’s close to a fifty fifty split about whether ceos they’re going to serve on the board of directors neither mainly mainly for larger public organizations. Oftentimes again, yeah, that the board is supposed to be the check and balance to the ceo and to bring the ceo onto the board might start to facilitate this rubber stamp board that just sort of agrees with a ceo and sort of puts all of their trust and relies on the ceo’s opinion just too far rather than acting is the check and balance, but it goes both ways because, you know, we haven’t really talked about the benefits of having the ceo on the board, and there there are some benefits, especially in the early stages of an organization. Do you have a visionary ceo? The only way that that ceo and possibly that’s, the founder of the organization to recruit the best members onto the board? Maybe if the ceo is on the board himself or herself because they’re the draw. They may be the draw to the organization, and without that person’s leadership, that organization may not be able to evolve to the next stage where, you know, i’m talking about where hopefully a cz the organization mature a little bit that you can get to a phase where their partners, the ceo on one side and the board of directors led by chair of the board on the other side, rather than blending the two together. But that may take a little bit of time to get to that stage, especially for small organizations, really depending upon the champion of the organization and its mission being the founders ceo and the boardmember all, at the same time, another advantage to having the ceo on the board sounds like would be that the other board members would be not so likely to get intruding into management day today. Issues. Yeah, but that’s that’s actually a good point. So sometimes, while directors ultimately have the authority tio and the obligation to ultimately manage the the organization that’s collectively, as the board of directors individually, board members have no inherent powers. At all. So that’s that’s something to really think about individually, director’s really don’t have powers unless they’ve been delegated to them as possibly officers of the organizations are agents for some specific tasks, but it’s a boardmember just by virtue of being a boardmember shouldn’t start directing employees of the organization and telling them what to dio even the executive director or ceo because it’s the board collectively that that overseas that that and not individual directors so i’m good, really good point let’s move to having a ceo chair, the board? What what’s concerns there. So all of the concerns of having the ceo being on the board of directors as a director are amplified when the ceo is also the chair of the board, and interesting enough, this was a recent article in the non-profit quarterly where and author just took the opposite position not now, fairly advocating it in all cases, but sort of making us aware that, well, sometimes a compensated ceo cancer because the chair of the board and it may be perfectly appropriate because what they want to do is completely aligned with what the board wants to do, which is advanced the organization’s mission is effectively and efficiently as possible, and if again the board doesn’t have a champion to do that other than this is the ceo, the ceo is almost resigned, teo being a member of the board and leading it forward so that part of the argument that that that author made but they’re the cons are again is that you can really encourage a rubber stamp board, you can lose the checks and balances that you’ve tried to design for the board, and ceos can, even without knowing that they’re doing so, make decisions that are based not necessarily in the organization’s best interests, but in the ceo, you know, ceos best interests as well, and not in terms of sometimes in terms of making more compensation for themselves or protecting their own job status, but sometimes it can be for more innocent reasons. Just the ceo thinks a certain way about a particular project and wants to protect that project ahead of others, perhaps, or looks to the present more than to the future of the organization and again in wanting to protect everybody, all the employees from from facing layoffs or anything like that doesn’t want to make that difficult decisions that might improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the organization in future, and really holds to the status quo, because there’s so many personal interests that are involved as well that the ceo maybe, like, here she is safeguarding too. So that’s where the board you know, it’s kind of this objective party from the outside looking in, khun really provide this different perspective for an organization. If you have the ceo of the chair of the board, designing the agenda of the board, being responsible for the education of the board and orientation of the board and preparation of all the board members before every board meeting, everything can get planted in a certain way to sort of direct everybody else to just approve. But the ceo is recommending and that that’s the danger of having a ceo is the chair, the listener pole. If if your ceo is a boardmember does he or she chaired the board, only thirteen percent said yes, and the other eighty seven percent said no that they don’t have that. We have just about a minute before we go away for a couple of minutes um, you’ve seen cases where the there’s, a volunteer chair of the board, and they’re identified as ceo of the organization. Yeah, and and that’s that’s kind of an interesting fact pattern that that oftentimes takes place even if the by-laws don’t say anything. So if you’ve got an executive director hired but your state law says that either the president or the chair, the board is the ceo, unless the by-laws state otherwise, even though you haven’t executive director, the chair of your board, maybe the ceo just by default of the law because you’re by-laws don’t say anything else, and that may not be a great place for a volunteer chair of the board tow want to be in should anything ever go to court and that person be held responsible as the ceo of the organization for understanding and knowing what the organization is doing on a day to day basis? And aside from the legal aspect of it, i think that would diminish the authority of the paid executive director. Absolutely. Here you’re absolutely right, and i wantto point to something that was on the april twenty sixth, two thousand thirteen show the guest was eugene fram, and he and i talked a lot about the title ceo versus executive director and how that and how executive director tends to diminish the authority of what, what he recommends. B b the ceo. We have to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back. Jean, i’ll keep talking about board a six. Hang in there, stay with us. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. God, that’s. More live listener love. Ah! Houston, texas. Yakima, washington. Rocklin, california. Outside sacramento. San francisco, california. And a masked us avenger listener. Tokyo, japan durney chua and we know that it’s francisco imbriano zara is francisco welcome. Lots of masked listeners in japan. Also bunch of mass listeners in japan, seoul, korea and goose on korea on your haserot and chung ching, guangzhou and shanghai, china. Ni hao, so happy to have all the live listeners. Love i love sending live listener love it’s, more like my live listener love, then love going out to you because i love doing it. Jean let’s see that’s ah, let’s continue with the possibility of having other paid employees or even contractors on the board. Seems to me this is getting messier the further we go, yeah, it can get messy hair as we go along and, you know, here in california, we actually have ah, state law that says for non-profit what we call public benefit corporations. So those air, the charitable organizations that are not not religious and focus, um, on lee up to forty nine percent of the board may be compensated or related to someone compensated and that’s, whether as an employee or an independent contractor, so a majority of the board essentially must be interested or not compensated or related to anybody confident no, jean, that still seems too high to me. Forty nine percent, i think, should be, like, ten percent. You know, most states actually don’t have that law at all in the vast majority of states don’t have that. So i agree with you that it would be great to have a small minority of the board compensated so the board can be can be the real checking balance in terms of making decisions that are not beneficial primarily for the employees directors, but primarily for the mission of the organization in most states don’t have those laws. And i think part of that is to accommodate some smaller boards where they may only be three or four board members to start out with. And you do have the founder, who’s compensated on the board and, you know, so e-giving ten percent, which would be very tough. Well, all right, well, then, say one out of force, you know, based on the size of the board. But but it seems risky tohave employees or even do you see this case where it’s it’s other employees or even vendors to the organization on the board? Yeah, way, absolutely, tio i don’t know, i don’t know, maybe i’m it just sounds crazy to me to have especially vendors on the well, no, actually, they’re equally bad to me vendors and and other paid employees aside from the ceo, i just don’t think they should be on the board at all. Yeah, you know, i for the most part again, generally, i would say i would agree with you, you really lose out on all the checks and balances that we talked about, even maur if you’ve got not only the ceo on the board but other employees or contractors as well, and then what about the situation, tony, if the ceo is not on the board but one of the vendors is on the board now, that creates, like this unusual situation where the ceo is really responsible for making sure that bender’s is performing under whatever contract that they have. But the vendors sits on the board that oversees the ceo and can affect the performance or even the retention of the ceo and that that’s kind of crazy, isn’t it? Yes, that’s, i can’t. I can’t see a case where a vendor or contractor to an organisation belongs on the board. I don’t care, even if they’re volunteering their time and the value of their services, or whatever, they, whether they’re volunteering or being paid, they just don’t belong and an employee’s equally bad. You know, some employees are on the board, but not other employees. I mean, what does that do to the peer-to-peer relationships, working relationships in the office? Yeah, they can’t create problems, but let me take the other side for just a moment. That lawyers love to do this right, then so let’s take the other side and say, well, what about a vendor who has been a great vendor paid vendor to the organization that’s been giving discounted rates to the organization all along knows the organization really well on dh if you continue to use that vendor, you just get far better value than you would by using any of her his competitors out there. And now you feel like the vendors so aligned with the mission of the organization, you actually value the perspective that this person could bring to the board and no one invite them onto the board. But you don’t necessarily want to take away this advantageous business kind of action that you have with this vendor, and you may be paying double if you go out and bring them on the board, but not continue to use their services. That may be a case where i say that’s, ok, you’ve to be very careful about this, but that may be okay to bring that vendor onto the onto the organization and in, you know, in a slightly different matter. What if you’ve got a board member? Who’s not a vendor right now, but he says, hey, i can leave my, you know, that’s, an extra business space, and we’re looking to expand i can offer you a lease that, you know, just half the price that you’ll find anywhere else, and you go ahead and have the all the independent board members of that that statement to make sure that what actually is much lower than when what fair market value would be for that space, and that may be another case where it’s okay, the boardmember eventually becomes the landlord of the organization, but that may be okay as well, but you do need the check and balance of independent board members to prove those type of transaction. So you’re not just relying on somebody saying that, yeah, we’re way cheaper than everybody else, you’re actually verifying that with the independent boardmember okay, well, i’m not willing to go that far with you. I think the the vendors perspective can be brought in by the by the ceo so that i think the perspective could be represented. And, you know, if the person loves the organization so much the way you’re describing it, i don’t think they would double the price just because, you know, way didn’t put them on the board. All right, i don’t need to do neither do i, tony, but, you know, it’s interesting board source, i believe, are no urban institute did a study of non-profits that have they’re they’re contractors on the board, and forty five percent said it would be difficult to terminate that relationship that contracting relationship and but only seventeen percent, haywood said it would be very difficult terminate that contract relationship and still keep that member on the board. So it’s an interesting thing, i think generally i agree with you, we don’t like the idea of having them on the board because of the conflicts of interest, but i can understand situations sometimes went when it might be appropriate. You’re more understanding than i am. Jean wait, we have to leave it there to be continued let’s do aboard basics again because we didn’t get to term limits. And then there’s also the question of, you know how often should the board meet? And i’ll bet you have some other topics. So let’s do board six again next time. Okay, that sounds good. I look forward to it. Excellent, i do to thank you, jean takagi, yet it’s the non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he’s at g tak thank you again, jean next week, a new feature out of the blue we’re going to bring people in that have offed be jobs and a connection to non-profits of course we’re going to start this with sand or cats he’s a fermenter, and actually he called himself sandorkraut and we’re going to talk about the history, benefits and methods of fermenting foods and he’s got a simple sauerkraut recipe and in a future out of the blue, we’re going to go from sandorkraut to santa claus, we’re going to bring in santa claus and mrs claus, they’re going to be in the studio in october, kicking off their busy season next week. Also, scott koegler returns he’s, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news he’s also in ina file, so that means fermentation is bad for scott koegler you want to follow me on twitter, i’m at tony martignetti our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, and we’re saying goodbye to regina walton of organic social media. We’ve had a terrific three year run with regina she’s, been with me from the beginning of the show, and you’re listening because regina promoted the show and you saw her good work, and that brought you to us. Thank you very much for gina it’s. Been a pleasure. I hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday, one to two p, m eastern, a tucking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving intending to be a good ending? You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. 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You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hyre

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Nonprofit Radio, April 26, 2013: A Conversation With Eugene Fram

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Professor Emeritus Eugene Fram
Eugene Fram: A Conversation With Eugene Fram

Professor Emeritus at Rochester Institute of Technology, Dr. Fram is author of “Policy vs. Paper Clips,” introducing nonprofits to a corporate model of board governance to cut out the minutia from agendas so your board can focus where it should, on policy and planning.

 
 
 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent for april twenty six twenty thirteen i’m your aptly named host question have you raided and reviewed the show? I haven’t asked for for many weeks, and if you haven’t done that, i’d be grateful if you did. We increase the ratings and reviews on itunes considerably the last time i asked, and if you haven’t, i’d be grateful if you did if you wouldn’t go over to non-profit radio dot net, start there and click readings and reviews and then give the show one to five stars, hopefully five and an a rating. I’d be grateful for that. Thank you very much. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d suffer acute respiratory distress if it came to my attention that you had missed a conversation with amy. Sample ward part do she’s, our social media contributor and co author of social change. Anytime. Everywhere we talked about your multi-channel plan fund-raising calendar, staffing and budgeting and now you know what a home page hijack is this week. A conversation with you, jean fran lots of conversations professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology dr fram is author of policy versus paper clips introducing non-profits to a corporate model of board governance to cut out the minutia from agendas so your board can focus where it should on policy and planning roughly thirty two minutes into the hour on tony’s, take two ah that’s, a little bit of a toughie because i’m recording this about three weeks in advance, and i don’t know what’s going to be on my block, but i’ll share some gratitude on tony’s. Take two my pleasure now to welcome eugene fran he is professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology he’s, a consultant, board chair and volunteer director for non-profits he has authored a co or co authored more than hundred twenty five journal articles on marketing and non-profit and corporate governance, he wrote the book policy versus paper clips, which you can find on amazon to introduce a governance model that we’re going to talk about on twitter he’s at eugene fram four a m just like the oil filter eugene fran, welcome, welcome good morning to you. Good morning to you, it’s it’s morning in california on the day that we’re recording very early morning. So thank you for joining me this early from the left coast. It’s. My pleasure, jean. Are you are you part of the fram filter family, buddy? Chance. Unfortunately, i am not. You’re not those things still around. I don’t own a car. I haven’t had a car for years. We are fram oil filters still around. Do you know why? I think they’re still on the web. I seen them. Okay, you have but that’s, not you. I’m sorry. And that’s not me. That’s. Alright. I’m not part of the great martignetti liquor family in boston and new england either. So okay. The both of us are suffering from famous names and chronic under representation in the in those wealthy families. Yes, we’ve been born with huge handicaps. I’m still trying to overcome mind. I hope you have overcome your one hundred twenty five articles. Yeah, somewhat. But you know, my ambition is to go to a thousand. Okay, well, now that you’re in retirement, you have more time for that. But yes. That’s true. Professor emeritus jean what? What’s what’s happening with boards? Why? Why do you feel they are missing the mark? Well, boards from a governance point of view non-profit boards from the government’s point of view, frequently have retained the old nineteenth or twentieth century model off of governance, where the board has a multitude of committees and tries to eventually micromanage the uh uh, the staff in the process, nothing gets done or the organization, although it has potential as stunted growth. Ah, if it in that way, because volunteers like myself and again as i talk, i’m not talking as a non ah non-profit ceo or e d i’m talking as a volunteer director, we can’t be there day today, and we can’t, uh, manage the minutia that is no, are they not necessarily monisha or the work that really needs to be done and we can’t really manage truly professional staff, we can help. We can advise we can help. We have an obligation to set policy, but uh, but we’re simply, uh, part timers or some person has described that we’re birds of flight through the through the organization because we’re they’re traditionally three to six years, and the staff stays and works and works under different boards. Your concern is that despite the well meaning board on dh and individual members having great potential and the best interests of the organization heart you feel they’re actually through these old models stunting the organization? Absolutely. And i think it could be proven when you look at any number of organizations which has suffered this way. Do you want to give an example or to, uh well, i’ve consulted with a number of them on, but i don’t want yeah, i’ll talk t o generalities specific organizations where the the the board actually got ah, where the volunteers on the board actually got involved to the level that they were, uh, they were managing departments. Eso if the decision had to be made, the department had first went to the volunteer uh uh, advisor or whatever they call him at the time and then went to the d with the advisers either decision or concern or whatever the department had won it. So the organization didn’t grow until they finally change. They finally changed the model full time employees reporting to a parttime volunteer argast person. Exactly. Oh, my all right. Let’s, let’s. Start with the beginning of the process and we will get to the corporate model that you lay out in your book way. We’ll get to that let’s. Take a couple of discreet sort of time line points and along a board members life cycle with the organization and i’d like to start with recruitment. Makes sense, i think. Xero what can we what can we improve around our board? Recruitment? Well, the chief executive officer where, whether they be a nadie or a president ceo, as i suggest, needs to have more contact with the board with the individual board members. I think they they have tto have more contact between meetings that has to be in often and formal. Ah, and they have tio they need to get to know each other. And i suggest, uh, that they actually made quarterly to informally discuss the concerns and the challenges. Ah, that the chief executive officer is facing. I, uh there are various techniques for doing this. I recently read in the harvard business review. Uh, a recommendation. Uh, that the, uh uh uh, we’re one, uh uh, for-profit ceo actually sends a email out to the board every sunday morning. Uh, just laying out very briefly, uh, in this case, his concerns about what’s going. On in the organization and what new ideas? He has a c as he indicated in the article, he says, i don’t worry about grammar right now, gina, i’m trying to focus on recruitment, so maybe maybe in in in this board meeting is often as you’re suggesting they’re identifying gaps in the board, and maybe they can try to fill those gaps with new board members that’s, right? Ok, and but as they’re going through that recruiting process to identifying skills that they need that the board is lacking, how should they be talking to potential board members? Well, they should talk to board members that what they do is to value their contributions of time, the most important thing, and they make ah, meaningful use off the board members time they don’t ask the boardmember the potential boardmember to do frivolous things, uh, such as stuff envelopes or our or get involved with watching slide shows or commenting on slide shows as one. Now that i’ve heard of s so that they focus on, they focus on the policy in the strategic issues of the organization. Okay, we’re going to take a break now, jean and when we return. We’ll keep talking about the little about the life cycle of the boardmember. And then we’ll get into the corporate model that you lay out in policy versus paper clips. So thank you, gene is going to stay with us. And i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? How i’m rika keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant? If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s. Six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com metoo welcome back with jean fran, and we’re talking about policy versus paper clips and focusing your board where the attention, where its attention ought to be on policy and planning and things like that. So jean question about in the recruitment process, the expectations around time and fund-raising for potential board members were still now just talking about the potential member what should, what should a non-profit be revealing about time and fund-raising well, they first ought to be very clear about the time commitment expected, and they ought to delve into a deep discussion with the boardmember on this because i’ve just consulted with a organization that has recruited cem very fine people who are working on people who are building their careers, and they lay out the they discuss the the time commitment for the organisation, but in the final analysis, after being on the board for three to six months of the people have, uh, huge work commitments, and they say, j i just can’t i made the time commitments. Oh, and so they had to restructure the board in a way that allows the chairman much more responsibility, i think, than a board chair should have. And what about the fund-raising expectations? Well, not all board members will enjoy fund-raising i think it’s necessary to find those who might enjoy it or have experience with it to make some commitment to it on dh. Do you want to see that as a dollar amount or more flexible based on the individual based on what the individual strengths are, if they have contacts? That’s one thing, uh, if if they have aa dollars to give or you are in the are able teo network with people of substantial wealth, that is another thing. Okay, but there ought to be. Do you agree with this one hundred percent participation personal at some level for for all board members? Yes. That’s necessary? Because foundations, when you go for grants often look at that as a board commitment, showing board commitment that they have made the financial commitment to the organization. Should these expectations be in writing for the potential boardmember? I think so. But i think it depends upon the culture of the board and they understandings that air developed at the beginning. If you, uh, if they, uh, if the board gets a lot of questions after after being on the board for a while about those commitments, maybe it’s necessary to put it in into writing, but not necessarily a legally binding contract. Oh, no, no, no, no. Okay, but just something that here’s what we’re expecting and please, you know, indicate that you’ve reviewed it. So we’re all have well have consistent expectations, right? We’re all on the same page, okay? Eso then moving. Teo orientation. If you recruited the right people, what should board orientation look like? Well, orientation, uh, should take place. I would say over i again size and complexity of the board about a six month period, andi, in the sense that there might be a half day or a couple our orientation about the organization and its mission is a mission, vision and values. Oh, and any other details that they they have to be concerned with. But then other issues ought to be ah brought up for the new board members as they as they progress through their first six months during this period, the, uh, the board chair and the ceo i need to be readily available to answer questions from from the new board members s o that they become fully apprised of the issues as they go along a two day board, uh, section in which a lot of information is thrown at the person, uh, simply doesn’t stick its a matter of repetition, understanding and going through the process themselves. And as you know, we all learned best when the when the problems are immediately in front of us. Ah, for example, uh, with board liabilities, a lot of boards will bring in a lawyer and and lay out the potential liabilities for a boardmember in their particular situation. Uh, they hear a lot about the laws, but they if you’re not a lawyer, they frequently forget it. Uh, so when an issue comes up ah, that the that there might be a a personal liability in in the situation, it’s up to the ceo and the board chair to remind the new people and refresh the older people that this particular situation might be affected by this particular legal precedent. Would you put new board members on a committee right away? Or would you keep them at large? I would keep, um, at large unless they have a strong desire to go on a committee. And of course, a sze yu know. I suggest that there are really only three committees needed. Yeah, on this is a way of getting into the corporate model. What are those three committees? Well, first that’s. Very simple. You have a planning and resource committee. Ah, that looks forward. It looks towards the strategic plan. It looks towards the resources that i have both, uh, human resource is and financial resource is it looks forward to the planning that is, that is necessary. It also has a special responsibility that the other committees don’t have and that is to, uh, teo ah, monitor and mentor ad hoc committees. Any man as, uh, special issues come up of a strategic or policy nature ad hoc committee need to be formed for that particular issue clearly, because because we don’t, we only have three standing committee, so we’re going to get it right. We’re gonna need ad hoc committee, particularly everything ascot committed to take care of the issues. They come up, come up esso and then that’s is that their their their responsibility. On the other side of the picture is the assessment committee and the assessment committee simply assesses how we have done. Okay on that includes the oddity function and the er in states such as california, where you need a separate audit committee. A subcommittee of that assessment committee performs the audit function, meets with the auditors. This all seeds up to the to the executive committee. The third committee, which has the traditional executive committee duties of of ah, of acting for the board and emergency situations and taking a final review off the various reports that air coming through before they come to the board. So it’ll give you, say, have a board of twenty one people with seven on each. Ah, you will find that, uh uh, by the time it gets to the board, uh, through the process is the large part or nearly all the board are familiar with the issues they may disagree with with some of the proposals and have other ideas at the board meeting. But everybody is full of pretty much everybody is wholly informed. You say twenty one board members as an example. So this is cannes. This corporate model worked for organizations that have just maybe half a dozen boardmember xero their way. We could divide. That in four or however we want to arrange that, depending upon the needs of the corporations of the non-profit, uh, this is a flexible model, okay? And people have used it in different ways. Ah, and, uh, for example, i once met a person, a new organization that didn’t have any standing committees. All committees of the board were ad hoc committees reporting to the entire board. They were happy with it. I would have been happy with it, but evidently it worked. It worked for them. All right. So there’s flexibility is this more what we see in corporations and you have to you have to help me out because i don’t. I’m not familiar with the corporate model. Is. Is this more typical of the way corporate boards operate? Very few standing committees, maybe not exactly the same, but very few standing committees. Lots of ad hoc committee’s. Well, this is being ah proposed by the bye. Some major consultants now, as you as you noted in the book, however, i hate to say, but i’ve been at this for more decades, uh, than i care to admit. And in turn, uh, there are a cz faras. I know, based on the sales of the first two books there, which was the first to additions, which were their sales of over ten thousand copies, i would estimate the thousands of boards have adopted it on dh. However, it is still controversial among some boards and its best used with boards who have, uh, a about a million dollar budgets and roughly let’s, say about, uh, no over ten to twelve, fourteen full time employees. Uh, when it comes to the nation type of non-profit board uh, the i think the traditional model of bored involvement in operations is necessary because, uh, they’re simply not the man power to get it done. The basic problem in the process in the change is that boards begin with board involvement in operations and when they grow, they still sick with the old model stunting the growth of the organization, frustrating the chief executive office operations officer and on dh missing huge opportunities that they could have right in their growth. Gene, i’m not clear on, but i’m not clear on something. Is your recommendation for smaller organizations teo to stick with a more traditional, smaller younger organizations? I guess yes. More traditional sport model. If you have an organization with a budget, for instance, i know one that i’ve been very close to, uh, it has only has a budget and does great work. Charitable work have two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in that case, uh uh, i would stick with the traditional oer organization, however, uh, in the book. Hey, hey. Still need tohave on audit committee of some sort. And the book describes what there’s a nest starita have that, you know, once or twice a year a cz the accounting issues and financial issues come up. And of course, the corporate model is important to have in mind as the organization grows exactly that’s the transition that they were going in. I’m just saying that’s, the transition that your urine compensation and allows you, teo, to grow two very large uh uh to a very large organization, if you want to go in that direction and it’s sort of mandated once you get a larger number of poise and, uh and, uh and larger finances to handle, if you’re in the area of over a million, if you’re in the area of one point five two, three, four, five, six million so full. I had one client a couple years ago that still had the old model on dh. They had a budget of six million dollars and, uh, the chief executive officer said to may look, i could be running away with this board, you know, they’re just not had supporting me in the way they should be supporting me there, worrying about the details of the operational details that they hear about now. That’s the policy versus paper clips. Yeah. And just there worrying about hypothetically the paper clips just to remind listeners that gene fram is professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology and the author of that book policy versus paper clips. Jean what? What can we expect? Aside from maximizing our growth potential? Sounds like more efficient operations. Um what? What else? Khun kayman organization expect if they adopt this corporate model of board governance. All right, well, uh, one is the the board members feel that they’re doing meaningful things. They think they see that there proposing projects. They’re monitoring their development. Uh, they’re getting to know the staff. Eso if the succession issue comes up, they know who. Uh, who? Ah, who the, uh, prime candidates might be, and they become really maur involved with the organization, as i indicated in policy versus paper clips. Ah, the ideal organization is a partnership between the board, the management group and the staff. They are all working together, there’s communications there, ideally and on. And they’re all focusing on the objective of meeting the needs and the grow, often the growing needs of the clients. Okay, we just have about a minute and a half or so before the break. What about employees who are accustomed to going to board members with with problems that assume that’s gotta stop? Yes, that has to stop that’s what they refer to it is the end run in the non profit organization. So the end runs have to stop, and they and everybody has to understand that it has to stop hyre so that people are not. People are not reporting to board members, they’re reporting to they’re they’re they’re supervisor or maybe it’s the ceo and president. But yes, but we can’t be going to board members for everyday problems. No, we can’t pay, uh, salary levels, uh, problems with promotions and so forth and so on. That’s particularly difficult and smaller community and smaller communities, e-giving where many of the employees might know, the, uh, the board members personally, you know, so that becomes important. So there is a transition period, uh, which can take anywhere from two to three, maybe even four years while this adjustment takes place. Okay, jean jean, we have to take a break. We’ll have plenty of time or to talk after this. After we go away for a couple minutes, i’ll come back, tony’s, take two, and we’ll keep talking to jean frame about the corporate model. Stay with me. I didn’t think that shooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding, you’re listening to the talking alternative network, get him. E-giving duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and their voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Schnoll i’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oh! Hello, i’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love this week as i’m not live, but you know that i’m grateful for the live listeners out there so lots of love to those in the us and throughout the world we get routinely get listeners from china, taiwan, japan recently ah, the uk, england and ireland of checked in so grateful for wherever you are live listener love and that’s really ah tony’s take to you know i want to thank you for listening to the show and supporting the show. I produce it for you because you’re working in or volunteering for a small or midsize non-profit a charity that’s doing great work that you’re passionate about either is an employee or volunteer and you know, it’s it’s personal i’m saying to you, thank you very much. Thank you for listening and supporting the show, and i’m very glad that you’re with me, maybe through social media, all the places that i am in social media if we’re connected there to thank you for that as well. I am grateful for your support and that’s tony’s take two for friday, the twenty sixth of april seventeenth show of the year gene let’s. Keep talking. Okay, what about you? Mentioned just briefly. Let’s. Talk a little about assessing the work of the of the ceo. Who does? Does that fall under in this corporate model? Well, that’s the, uh, that’s the assessment committee makes sense. Ideally, the assessment committee looks at, uh, two aspects of the of the ceos work and the organizations outcomes. You don’t look for processes. You look for outcomes and these khun b those, uh, those data, which are what we might call ha ha ah, hard data and that’s the data that you have with accounting records, records of membership, what a number of clients, things of that nature that you can easily major. And then there, there qualitative ah, measures that you can measure has should make sure which most or many organizations don’t major, for instance, impact on the community or or excuse me image. Ah, in the community, things of that nature more qualitative. And in that area, i suggest that you do what we call, uh uh, use in perfect metrics. In fact, i have an article out on it. And i’m sure if any of you ah, if you take a look at my website. You will. You will see it there or if you even put it on in under my name, you will find it is available on on the web on. And that is a process that i suggest with the co author, that if you use in perfect metrics over time that you khun dr process dr provoc progress and develop exchange it develop change. Excuse me, jean’s blogged itt’s a little little lengthy. So i’m going to suggest that the easiest way to find gina’s teo, do a google search on eugene fram. Yes, thank you very much. I have now have ah ah. In fact, i have an anniversary right now. I’ve just put out my hundred fifty fiftieth blawg a titled what non-profits ceos think of their boards? Other recent ones air program reductions are mandated. What can a non-profit d’oh okay, another one just for example, is management knows all what does a what’s a non-profit director to dio okay, people find you. Really? I think easiest through google search now, this years have put my name into google and there there’s a lot. A lot of links there for you this use ofhim. Perfect data. Gene, won’t you say a little more about that? Doesn’t doesn’t sound like something we’d want to rely on. Well, if your process is good and you sample reasonably well, you get data. That is not exact, but you get a feel for it. Uh, for, for example, uh, i once, uh, have was on the board of a of a charitable non-profit that was targeted, uh, to counsel. Ah. P ah, various people in the community was heavily supported by the united way. And we weren’t getting many. Ah, ah, uh uh. We weren’t getting many respondents from the inner city, so i suggest it as the boardmember uh, that i, uh, talk with some of the people in the community. What, that time no one was the settlement houses and ah, and see in the inner city, uh, which were community centers, which is a better word for them. And see what they perceived is the problem. Esso i went to them and i found out what i what they thought were the problems. And now you’re only talking to three people, but they knew the communities there and the, uh, the first thing. That happened was the aids of the community centers called, uh ah, my, uh my president and ceo and said, guess what in one of your board members coming down to talk to me? So i, uh and he said, yeah, i know. And we had agreed to this prior to that. And so i listen to these people. I came back, i gave him feedback hey made changes to try to, uh, garner a greater proportion of the clientele from the inner city. And then after a year, uh, went back and talked to the people and i said, as are many changes and they said yes, there’s been modest changes, but there’s still more that needs to be done. I fed this back to the present ceo, he made changes. And then at the end of the second year, there were there were substantial changes, and the board got out of the business of evaluation at that point. All right, so buy some buy some key interviews of the right people, right? Yeah, we don’t have statistical significance and exactly, but on everything that surrounds proper, peer reviewed research. But who can afford to do all that all the time exactly. And and the article contains practical examples. Were both myself and my co author, jerry tally, a sociologist who both of us have been in ah, an end quote in the business a long time have have used the model and have found it very, very helpful. And over time, if you repeat this, asai did and and the example i gave you it was only a about a two year run until the things started to turn around and then the ceo was evaluated on on ongoing from there you mentioned earlier something i wantto spend a little more time with the proper title. Your recommendation for title. For the the chief of the of the organization, you feel pretty strongly that executive director is not sufficient. No, uh, executive director can mean various things because it’s, used in a in a in a wide variety of ways on executive director can be a volunteer who manages the budget of a small church uh uh with a let’s say, a two hundred thousand dollars budget. An executive director khun b, for instance, one i’ve encountered recently. Ah, was the it was the head of a ten. Million dollars ah, charitable organization with over one hundred employees. And i don’t think, uh, the title executive director in the twenty first century, even in the last part of the twentieth century, gives, uh, the chief executive officer of a non-profit the position and stature that that, uh, that he or she needs toe work effectively. So what do you prefer to see? I prefer once you get into the, uh uh, make the make the transition. I prefer president and ceo because people understand their what that means, it’s clear that that person has responsibility for operations except those decisions that have to be made by the board. And that title may have significance for board members also that they recognize the responsibilities of of the president and ceo exactly on dh to add to that. And in many cases, the non-profit president ceo has more management responsibility than a number of the members of the board. For instance, if you’re a professor, you loft and, uh, i don’t have any management responsibilities. Um, never had it. Okay, you worked as an individual contributor. Same thing about a physician. Uh, who is, uh, who has a single practice. The same thing with a, uh a lawyer who is, uh, who has a a single practice or even it’s a part of a major law firm. They just haven’t had the responsibility of the that the president and see the chief executive has of of the nonprofit organization implementing this. A corporate model seems to me there’s a lot of trust between boardmember sze, between the board and the president ceo, between the staff of the organization and the president ceo between the staff and the board. It sounds like there’s a lot of trust required. Yes. You have to have trust it’s it’s. Really? I if you’re and you picked it up exactly. It is a trust model it’s a model in which you have to trust the ceo. Uh, you have to trust the staff that they are professionals. But on the other hand, it also calls for rigorous evaluation. It’s not the traditional evaluation of the border, the staff where they send out a questionnaire at the end of the year and and ask people to return it. You don’t get full returns and the questionnaire is poorly formatted. It takes investigation and robust evaluation and what are we going to do with trustees who are reluctant to give up the managing the paperclips responsibilities? How do we manage those people with difficulty? Yeah. Go hope you got something better than that. Otherwise, i’m taking you off now. I’m going to cut your mic down. If that’s the best you can do. No, uh, some people you have to give them what they might consider meaningful activities such as chairing the annual dinner on things of that nature who are not working, who are not interested in the policy. For instance, if you have a major donor who, uh, just is not interested in policy and strategy and wants to do that over time. What you hope will happen with the ah corporate model with my model is that, uh, the, uh, board will turn over to people who have these dynamic interests and understand that they have to do a robust evaluation, not a cursory one, and that the majority of the board will be those types of people. We got to take a break. Jean fran stays with me, and i certainly hope that you do, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Buy-in are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Buy-in durney welcome back. We’re wrapping up. We have about another five minutes or so and want to continue with with jean for the that time and talk about some of the advice that you have around week board practices. There’s there’s. Something on your blogged. There are a few posts on your block about overcoming week board practices. One of those is one of those bad practices is overlooking absences. What do you suggest there, what’s the problem. And what do we do? Well, you have boardmember sze uh, who? Uh uh, fill a board members, uh, board position and they’re consistently absent. And this is a very touchy situation. They may be very fine. People have great skills, but they simply don’t have the time to attend board meetings, which obviously critical to the organization. Uh, i think the best thing you can do is to try to talk to these people, try to retain them on the board or understand, uh, what they’re missing by not attending the board meetings in some instances. Ah, it’s it, khun b a a termination discussion. For instance, i just recently encountered one and which, uh, the board chair had this discussion with the person and she said, i’m just sorry i like the organization. Ah, and and i’m i’m tied to the mission, vision and values, but i’m doing international travel and my best, the best i can do is to open up the position and resign in other cases if you can find the root cause of it and do something about it for them that’s that that could be ah, that could be another alternative, but it’s very situational on dh. Very individual to see what you can do. Teo, handle the situation you had suggested earlier. There may be a different role for the person. Maybe it’s not. Our board will be something else i can do to support the organization. Yeah, in this one, they’re, uh instance, that i just mentioned. I i had talked to this individual and i said to her, well, look, uh, it’s obvious that you can’t do anything immediately, but your role made in your job may change again. Uh, have you asked about taking a leave of absence from the board on da ah, future time. A year, year and a half. Two years, maybe. Things during that change around and so she’s still connected to the board in some way. I may even get minutes of the board and so forth. So on as a way of retaining that person’s interest in the organization because she was there. She’s, a very fine person. Thoughtful, analytical, does critical thinking and had very broad experiences. In-kind of the dream, the dream boardmember. So you try to make these accommodations. What about insufficient due diligence on the board first? How do we how are we going to recognise that? Well, i think that’s again the, uh the, uh the board chairs responsibility along with the chief executive officer. When things are not discussed in an adequate detail, that they bring the issues up that they pride to do some of the due diligence for the people. Because again, the boardmember zehr not being compensated by large they are. They have other jobs jobs that are their main main concern. And so you may need to help them along on the dew dealings. Due diligence side jean has other identified board weaknesses and and how to overcome them on his on his blogged jean what is it that you love about working on boards? Well i, uh i like the people on dh i’ve served on a number of human services are, you know, charity type boards as well as, you know, trade associations and so forth, but on the boards that especially those that are charitable in nature, you see in these organizations, people who figured early stand ten feet tall, they do much more than they are compensated for, they do it willingly, and they really have the client’s interest that mind, a tte heart, and and then in their mind, you know, i’ve seen ah, social workers in on and homes on group homes, uh, take take some of their clients to their own homes on weekends, or even take them on vacations far beyond what is required of the people in order to ah, help them overcome the handicaps that they have. You know, those are just examples, and when you see people like that really dedicated it and you can contribute in your way, you know, i can’t do those sort of things, but i can contribute to they’re doing it, we have to leave it there. Eugene fram, professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology, google him remember it’s like the fram oil filters fr am googling to find his block. His book is policy versus paper clips it’s on amazon jean, thank you so much for being a guest. Well, thank you for having me been my pleasure. I hope you will be with me next week. Consultant and author amy eisenstein returns last time she was here, we talked about her book, fifty asks in fifty weeks that was april first, two years ago, and her new book is raised more with less took her two years to write it. I hope that was time well spent, and we’re going to find out next week we’re all over the social web, you know that you can’t make a click without testa dura lisp arika smack your head hard on tony martignetti non-profit radio twitter, for example, use the hashtag non-profit radio. Check out the hashtag follow me, i’m at tony martignetti you want to know what’s coming up before the show sign up for our weekly insider email alerts that’s on the facebook page, click alerts. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules were gonna be remote starting starting season in june at fund-raising day in new york city. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one two to eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Hyre no. Durney i don’t think that’s a good ending. You’re listening to the talking. Alternate network duitz getting anything. Think xero cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 28, 2012: The Law Of Attraction & Private Benefits: Not Dirty, But Bad

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Melanie Schnoll Begun

Melanie Schnoll Begun: The Law Of Attraction

To attract major gift prospects and potential board members, you have to put your best foot forward to get what you’re seeking. Melanie Schnoll Begun is managing director at Morgan Stanley private wealth management. She helps her ultra high net worth clients make charitable gifts and get on boards, but she has practical and valuable advice that applies to any charity soliciting a major gift or recruiting a board member. (Originally aired on April 20, 2012.)

Emily Chan
Emily Chan: Private Benefits: Not Dirty, But Bad

Rules against private inurement, excess benefit transactions and private benefit (don’t think “friend with benefits”), keep your charity operating for the public good. Emily Chan, from the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group, is our monthly legal contributor and she’ll explain the rules.

 
 


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Dahna hi there, it’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on september twenty eighth twenty twelve i’m your aptly named host. I do hope you were with me last week. Yes, i do. It was a bonanza alliances remember we had the true italian roseanna imbriano principle of our eye consulting encouraged you to secure strategic alliances that expand your marketing and save your marketing budget because they cost you nothing and claire’s cliches. Claire meyerhoff returned she’s, principal of the planned e-giving agency creative director of this very show, we talked about cliches for you to avoid and simpler words to replace them with. I didn’t have the heart to put her in jargon jail because she created it this way. The law of attraction to attract a major gift prospects and potential board members, you have to put your best foot forward to get what you are seeking. Melanie schnoll begun is managing director at morgan stanley private wealth management. She helps her ultra high net worth clients make charitable gif ts and get on boards, but she also has practical and valuable experience and advice that applies to any charity soliciting. A major gift or recruiting a boardmember and this interview with melanie was originally aired on april twentieth, two thousand twelve. Show also private benefits not dirty, but bad rules against private in your mint i like that word in your mint. Yeah, private in your mint xs benefit transactions and private benefit we’re not thinking friends with benefits private benefits these things keep your charity operating for the public good. Emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group is our monthly legal contributor, and she will explain the rules between the guests on tony’s take two my block this week one more week still seven tips for small shop planned e-giving because i think it’s important and i’ll talk about one of those tips are you on twitter while you’re listening? You could be if you open up another window, don’t don’t close the window you’re listening on now because you’ll lose me, but if you want open up another browser window on twitter, you can join the conversation there using the hashtag non-profit radio we’re about to take a break and then we’re going to go right into my interview with melanie schnoll begun, but first i gotta send live listener love to takashi in japan. Takashi, japan, newport, rhode island, and minneapolis, minnesota. Live, listener love going out to all of you. Stay with me after this break, it’s. The law of attraction, co-branding think dick tooting getting stinking thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. Nothing. Cubine joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller emotional freedom, and greg brayden will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order, or h a n j dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio with me now is melanie schnoll begun. She is a managing director and head of morgan stanley private wealth, management’s philanthropic services. She serves as a philanthropic advisor to families, foundations and family offices, working with the firm’s, ultra high net worth clients. She’s, the incoming board president of the juvenile diabetes research foundation of new york and bored treasure of the partnership for philanthropic planning. My show has been a sponsor at there. National conference on philanthropic planning the past two years. I’m very pleased that her work and her expertise brings her to the show. Melanie schnoll begun welcome. Thank you so much, tony. Just one correct that’s why i’m the current oh, you’re the could hurt the president of the board of juvenile diabetes research funding. I have to say that because the topic today that we’re gonna be talking about if i didn’t correct you about my party particular officer position on a board, i wouldn’t be selling the reason why i said or or why i think it’s so important to serve for constance he believe in so this is why i need an intern we’ve built you and i would both blame the intern, and it wouldn’t have reflected on you badly at all. What is your work around with ultra high net worth individuals? What are you doing with them? Well, i think that my work is providing meaning in their life. Many of our clients come to us because they’re in the middle of a transition. Perhaps they’ve sold their business, maybe there’s some interesting event that’s happened in their life, perhaps even a very sad event. That’s happened their life, and we help them identify how to be very strategic, purposeful and planned in there, giving for many clients when they think about making a contribution, even a large contribution, they don’t put a tremendous amount of thought into it. It might be a cause that they’ve heard about maybe one that they’re associated with, but they’re not doing a deep dive into the background and the backdrop of what’s really going on in that non-profit organization or what else there might be out there in the world, so we try and provide that professionalism, and then along the way, make our clients professionals. Themselves. What? What? What do you find motivates ultra high net worth and shortly, i’m gonna ask you, what is ultra high net worth? But we’ll work our way to that. But what do you think motivates their giving? Well for some clients, it’s because someone sick in their family for other clients, it’s because they’re say little more about that someone sick where the e-giving in memory of the person soon will be a memory will hopefully to find a cure. Hopefully the final work usually clients witness a major keynes in their attitude. What they used to buy with their wealth no longer becomes important and that’s because the second that someone has a diagnosis in their family of someone who’s ill the only thing they’re thinking about is identifying better treatment and perhaps secure. So we find often that we come to the philanthropic table with someone who has just been given that diagnosis scammer and is looking for the solution where so many of us just our resource is we go to the web and we learn as much as we can, but when we’re talking about people with extraordinarily extraordinary wealth that can actually invested. In a possible cure that’s what they want to buy it, they want to buy the cure. I think what’s shocking and disappointing in many instances is that clients, no matter how wealthy they are, find out that they can’t necessarily buy everything. So it is that deep investment for the long term, perhaps not even for the benefit of their family member who might be ill but for others to find a cure better treatment. Better resource is that might bring some of our clients to the table. Others are just deeply invested in their community. They want better cultural organizations. They want better education for their kids. Certainly in new york, that’s a very big issue about private school, public school. And as your children are going through that educational problem situation, where are there enough of fine schools in new york to send our kids to? In many instances, they find that they that there’s not so. Our clients are interested in identifying. How can they be the solution to the educational drama issue? We have just a couple minutes before break. What? What what’s the definition of ultra high net worth. What is how much money? Are we talking about, well, a lot more money than i have? I’ve always said that i really hope to one day be able to be my own client, but for us, ultra high net worth is really defined as clients who have a net worth of twenty five million and more. The reality is that it’s a very open span for those clients, though, with twenty five million and mohr, they usually have a significant out a significant amount of money that they could do something incredibly impactful with their philantech, um, on how much i’m wondering, how much does somebody who has that kind of wealth walk around within their wallet, like, like i have typically, like thirty or forty dollars in my wallet, but so i would probably not be confused for ultrahigh worth of net worth. If someone stole my wallet, i probably wouldn’t i probably couldn’t get away with that, but, you know, like, how much do you think they have just on an average day in the well, how much do you think that carry around? Probably probably no cash. I think that i think that most about very wealthy people typically put most their stuff on cards today. So you know what? Actually, i would go after your wallet if i knew that you were on the street. So just watch thirty or forty bucks, so i was ready. I was ready to go, like, three or four hundred in my wallet, and then it almost be worth it to lose that much if i could get two muggers to think that i’m ultra high net worth. Yeah, yeah. Now they would share the story of the ultra high net worth guy, you know, among their prison friends. And i could, you know, get known that way. But i’m going about it the wrong way. You got to go down so well, no cash. Now, we need to talk about prison reform as faras labbate. Right? So so how can you make sure that those who come out of prison then are better off than when they went in and are telling the story of twenty martignetti being ultra? Yeah, absolutely. We have to take a break when we return. Of course melanie schnoll begun stays with me, and we’ll continue talking about the law of attraction. So i hope you stay with us talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time, join me, larry shop, a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business, it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s, really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest is melanie schnoll begun, and melanie let’s talk about it. When charity’s air trying to solicit gif ts you have your clients who are ultra high net worth, but you have, i think, very valuable advice for any charity that’s trying to solicit any major gift, which maybe five hundred dollars or thousand dollars for some charities. What what’s your you see sort of faulty proposals a lot, don’t you? Yeah, i think that non-profits believe they understand who the donor is, and they prepare something in advance. That’s a critical error, you never know who that donor is, the famous saying. If you’ve met one philanthropist, you’ve met one philanthropist, so we try and tiki non-profits to perform a radical listening, and that means spending the time to really understand why a donor may want to be a donor to their organization. The time will be incredibly valuable both for the non-profit but even more importantly, for the donor, when a donor has the opportunity to talk about what they care about, why they care about the organization’s mission, you hear things you really hear things inside of that conversation inside the conversation in the donor’s hat so radical listening is a skill that we teach non-profits to practice. And that skill is something that serves both board members. It serves the staff of non-profit organizations, and at the end, you’re really giving a service to a donor. I think that most of my clients find that no one listens to them well enough. Yeah, but but a charity that’s that’s soliciting a major gift. However they define that might feel that they’re not going to get another meeting with this person. They go one shot. We finally got the meeting. We got forty five minutes. Way better. We’ve got to lay it all out because we may never get a second meeting that’s, right? So you walk into every meeting with the idea that if i really listen to this donor, i’m going to get the second meeting. If you walk in with a proposal thinking that you know who this person is and what they want to offer your organization, you’re probably guaranteeing yourself that you’re not going to see that donor again. So does it always work? It may not always work if you begin practicing it. Well, if you spend so much time performing discovery on that donor both in the dance of the meeting and then, while you’re sitting at that meeting, i think over time you’ll find that your practice as a fundraiser will dramatically improve. So you’re suggesting that if you can move the donor while while radically listening, then you’ll get a follow-up meeting brightstep my suggestion is, if you are performing radical listening, you will move the donor, okay, okay, even without introducing your mission and your work in the first in the first meeting, right? Because you’re going to hear from the donor what the donor wants to dio instead of telling the donor with a non-profit wants the donor and you do know there’s a threshold interest, otherwise you wouldn’t have gotten the first meeting would have gotten the meeting would have gotten the meeting. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an important skill it’s something that has been written about andi, i think that we can’t live in that fear fundraisers can’t live in that fear that this is joan, or will not be interested in talking to me again. In fact, most of the conversation is not a conversation most of the conversation is letting that ultra high network don’t talk to you, and you’re just there. To listen or again, it could be any level donor, and i’ve had where we have a regular prospect. Research contributor maria simple is on, and she and i have talked about the value of the face to face meetings, and she’s a professional prospect researcher who knows all the web webb resource is, you know, but she still recognizes that the greatest prospect research comes from a good, good conversation, absolutely and and and and he’s absolutely right face-to-face looking the donor in their eyes. In many instances, i think being on the donor’s being in the donor’s territory so a place where they’re comfortable, where it’s an environment either their office, they’re home, maybe somewhere where they’ve recommended that they like to go for coffee. Usually i recommend going for a glass of wine because, you know, does it doesn’t hurt, but her loosen up? Yeah, exactly. I’ve tried to get sam lee boards to have wine here, but he’s not doing it now you’re not really radical listening, right? I just radically demand thanks, you know, but i’m not a charity, so i think i’m exactly only have third example, everything was but you only have thirty. Dollars you’re while you are charity ticket, you can’t get a decent bottle of wine for thirty bucks. So then the careful listening radical listening is goingto inform your valuable proposal when that when it’s the right time, that’s, right meds and the valuable proposal some hints that we give to non-profits as they’re preparing that that proposal brief three points know what are the key issues that you’ve heard? The donor has said to you, the areas where they’re really interested in supporting on ly talk about those areas, right? Putting in a proposal for stuff that you haven’t heard because the organization needs it, but the donor doesn’t want it what’s the likelihood of that getting funded so three typically are the most that we suggested a proposal going backto a donor that you know what they’re interested in, you’re going to get a much better response. Bilich other tips for the for the proposal itself for the written document, you brief couple pages, right? A couple of pages in fact, most of our clients today, they don’t want to read stuff, right? And they fear that if the non-profit is spending so much time and resource is preparing proposals, then they may not be spending the money that i’m giving to the organization i’m doing. The work so in many instances, it’s brief short. In fact, non-profit should ask the donor. How would you like me to prevent to present a proposal? Is it isn’t even something that you want in writing? Or should we just have another conversation? I would welcome that second conversation so that now the second meeting, the donors prepared to do their own radical listening, right? Is there a problem? Sometimes when a donor gets sort of passed off from somebody who knows the work very well to the fund-raising professional who’s goingto the closer it’s like it’s, like in a in a car dealership going to which i have very bad memories of a child. Buying my first car was awful, but at a car dealership going from the salesmen to the finance manager exactly going that office and the door gets closer, you know, but being passed from the maybe the executive director or someone who knows the work well to the closer, the fundraiser doesn’t something get lost there sometimes. Yeah. What? What gets lost is the gift. So no one wants to be handed off everyone in that non-profit organization, both from voluntary leadership to professional. Staff should be able to talk about programming if the executive director is the one who has contact with that donor. If it’s a boardmember who has the contact with that donor, or if it is the professional fundraiser that has the contact with that donor, the conversation could be between those two people bringing others include others in the conversation. But don’t hand a donor. Roth. I have ah ah, client situation that happened with a large university hospital. Incredible organization doing tremendous work. And this client’s unfortunately this this medical institution was not able to save the life of our client’s husband. But he wanted to honor him. She wants to memorialize him. And the doctor who was treating her husband was the individual that he wanted to leave a contribution for. So that he could continue doing the great work that he began with her clothes with her with her husband. Many of the conversations happened between her and the doctor. It was intimate. She could see clearly what she wanted to accomplish. And then when it came down to the clothes, she was handed to a development director. Ah, fine development director. Someone who’s spent years. In the business. But it was so disconnected and she felt that were there. Were you there for the meeting? So i was there after the fact also, i came in to help save the gift. Okay? And we this this donor-centric working with us after he felt that brush off from the doctor and it was completely unintentional. So totally unintentional. It’s just protocol just about innocuous handing off. But it’s, the way things are done, he wasn’t supposed to close that’s someone else’s responsibility. So what? I teach both boards as well as professional staff, it’s, everyone’s, responsibility clothes. If you’re the one who has the relationship, you need to be confident enough to make the ask. And you need to be prepared enough too close. And if it’s, i guess if it’s a really technical gift which it could be a large dollar amounts, then at least include the in your case, the doctor but generally the program the work expert in the conversations don’t leave him or her out in the hall while now the professional closer, you know, goes through his is her stick that’s, right? And you know it. The attorneys thie accountants all the financial advisor’s. All of those professionals need to play a role in the process if the donor wants him to be included in the conversations about the specifics of the gift that’s great, but there’s the technical aspects of giving and then there’s the emotional aspects of giving and what i see getting lost. It’s, it’s, it’s never technique, right? You could draft a perfect trust. It could be absolutely accurate. The document itself could get an a plus plus in any fine law school. But if the donor is not connected emotionally to the gift, it doesn’t matter what the document says. Melanie schnoll begun is managing director, head of morgan stanley, private wealth, management’s philanthropic services and we’re talking about the law of attraction basically had a look good when you’re either soliciting a gift or soliciting someone for boardmember ship, which is what i’d like tio transition to now, okay, appealing to a board appealing to a potential boardmember. Since you’re working with ultra high net worth people, i’m going to guess that sometimes there approached because they’re very wealthy. And how do they feel about that? Yeah, so in the law of attraction, it’s it’s rarely because they’re really good looking now. Many of them might be hot tonight, but it’s usually because they’re wealthy so similar to the idea of marriage. Right? So when i got married, i married for love. I married for looks there’s, you know there’s a little bit of money to that’s all so that’s, always wonderful when you think that before you can say sex on the show is this the part where you were thinking of coming? It’s coming, it’s coming, it’s coming sex is you have to have a little foreplay before sex. So it’s getting there russia you’re right. That’s been my problem. You’re russian it you’re as well among others, but let’s keep it let’s. Keep it focused on alt-right network from latto let’s. Take this conversation on the bed here. Right? Right, right. So the opportunity of creating a marriage between a potential boardmember and an organization it’s incredibly important. So the the reason donors believe that? Serving a non-profit is an appropriate step for them is because they’ve been courted well, it’s, because they find the organization incredibly attractive and good looking it’s because they want to spend a lot of time with that organization because they want to see that organization grow and really achieve incredible impact very similar to marriage alive know the problem with marriage is is half the men in divorce, so the same is true with non-profit port service, you’re excited at the beginning, right? You can’t wait for that next kiss can’t wait for the next date and then quickly within the first year, if the non-profit doesn’t really know how to work well, play well, dine the donor well doesn’t understand where they like to go to how they like to vacation. If the non-profit doesn’t know how to use the donor to his or her maximum capacity, they get bored, they get disenchanted and the worst thing is donors cheats like just like what happens in many families that fall apart, they begin looking at other opportunities that really do want them thinking that it’s better on the other side there feeling remorse about having joined this board. Everything was great in the beginning that right? The honeymoon stage, but about exactly right, exactly right? So spend your time non-profit should spend their time thinking about whether or not this is a person they want to marry. Is this a person that will bring value to this relation? Can we grow together? And what do we each bring to the relationship? It has to be more than just money again, just like many families, right? If all you’re going after is the wealth than a marriage for many, many years will fall apart, you know the boardmember potential boardmember wants to know that they’re going to be used effectively. That’s right? You’ve utilized way. Don’t use board members. We usually large numbers. Okay. Okay. Um, taking over the show? No. She, um let’s. See, so but a lot of times, board charities need an expertise. We need an accountant or we feel we need an attorney. And in some specialty real estate, maybe or something. So they’re seeking that profession. But that is contrary to what you’re recommending. Right? So i think what boardmember sze need to be on? What boards need to do to get the right. People on their team is they have to look for people different than themselves. What happens with most non-profit boards is you look around the board table and everyone’s the same right, because it’s, a friend introducing another friend. They come from similar backgrounds, specially smaller charity it’s, a friend of the executive director of the founder, absolutely especially small non-profits and specifically, when they’re getting off the ground, right. So it’s, the founder, it’s, the founders best friend, its founder, sister, and perhaps someone who worked for them at one point time or an intern. So non-profits really need to think about how can we bring true diversity to our board? Professionalizing aboard must include accountants, financial advisors, lawyers, but you can’t just look at them as a lawyer, you need to look at them as a lawyer that has a mission that there interest must be tethered, if not tied to the nonprofit organization, that they’re a lawyer that’s their skill set. But ultimately we know that even if they weren’t a lawyer, that they really support the work of that organization. I wantto have you bring something out that we had talked about that very wealthy people are not un interested in working for smaller midsize working among being utilized by small and midsize charities. Is that right? Absolutely. I think that many very wealthy clients believe that they can be better utilised in a small nonprofit organization. In fact, that’s where most of their money came from. So the majority of our client base started their own closely held businesses. And they realise what it means to rule up their sleeves to get dirty. They love that kind of opportunity and nonprofit organizations. So when you come into these large non-profit organizations very bureaucratic, very political. So many individuals that look like them. So it is even mohr attractive for wealthy people to see that you know, my gift. We’ll make a significant difference here, but my time may even be more valuable. Tulani schnoll begun is a managing director and head of morgan stanley. Private wealth, management’s philanthropic services. Melanie, thanks very much for being in the studio. Being a guest, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. Been a pleasure. Got more live listener love tokyo. Welcome. Seoul, south. Korea. Welcome and chandler, arizona, also, and from minneapolis, my thoughts are with you, the very tragic shooting just yesterday. Very sad thinking about you in minneapolis, minnesota. Now we take a break, and when we return, tony’s take to stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order or a nj dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz no. Schnoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time now for tony’s, take two and then after that, it will be emily chan. We’ll be talking about private benefits not dirty, but bad on tony’s take two for my blogged this week is what i mean to be saying i kept up seven tips for small shop planned giving an extra week because i think small shops need encouragement and it’s important. And one of the one of the seven that i’ll talk about this week is just start simple. I had made the point last week that there is great opportunity for small shops and that you shouldn’t be intimidated by planned e-giving the best place to start is very simple gif ts charitable bequests in people’s will and everybody needs a will. Everybody understands what a will is on dh for some small, real small charities that might be the place to stop you might that might be your whole plan’s e-giving program encouraging bequests in a will. If you want to go a little further, you can encourage people to name you as a beneficiary of life insurance policies or their ira or pension. These are all those those air, very simple, being named as a beneficiary. You just encourage your, um your prospects to fill out a change of beneficiary form that they get from the company that administers there, ira or pension, whatever it is it’s very, very simple to do so. One of the seven tips that’s on my block is start simple and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty eighth of september and the forty first show of the year before. Before i bring in emily chan, i gotta send live listener love to my hometown. Well, my current town, new york, new york. Thank you. Finally, we don’t get too many listeners from new york. Where is everybody? Emily chan is a attorney and she is an attorney at neo-sage non-profit and exempt organizations law group, which is in san francisco. She’s, also a principal contributor to the non-profit law blawg she’s, the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer i’m anxious to see what she’s going to do in twenty thirteen. You can follow her on twitter at emily chan and i’m very glad that she is one of the regular contributors to the show emily welcome. How are you? I’m doing great. Gene is not going to be with us this week right now. He’s in baltimore right now, working with one of our clients. Okay, so i have ah, costello, but no abbott that’s. All right. Um, we’re talking about private benefits in a moment, but first we want to wrap up a little bit about fiscal sponsorships. There’s a little more. You wanted to leave listeners with from from last month? Yeah, just to wrap it up, i think there’s maybe three things that i want to remind listeners about with physical sponsorship. We were able to talk about it in that short amount of time, but it is a very complicated concept, and more often than not, we see people doing it wrong as opposed to write. So if i have three tips for non-profits, that would be one. Definitely. Do your homework. You get that other one. Give me the cold in book on six weeks to do it right. I read about it. Talk to people to make sure that your organization has a process for oversight. That’s a big area where we see organizations dropping the ball. They just practically speaking can’t do it. And then finally, if you are going to enter into physical sponsorship agreement, make sure you get that contract review because that’s defying everything and all of your rights and the terms and conditions that both parties are agreeing to. Thanks very much, emily. Okay, we want to make sure we set the stage correctly for people on fiscal sponsorship now with private benefits. What are we’re not talking about friends with benefits, my innuendo? Because, you know, that’s just the way i think, for some reason, what are we? What are we concerned about with respect to private benefits? Private benefit is really one of the core concept for public charities because they’re organized for charitable purposes for public purposes and deserved charitable classes. So there’s actually three rules that helped to govern organizations to make sure that they’re in compliance with the federal tax laws and keeping there five, twenty three tax exemption, the three rolls are the private benefit doctrine, the private interment doctrine. And then finally, the access benefit transaction roll some hoping today we can just do a kind of a primer on these three rules to give organizations of better understanding about maybe some areas where they’re starting to tiptoe into violation. Okay, it’s. Interesting. You say primer? I say i always say primer, you know, that’s interesting i could do to short out. You do long i interesting. I don’t know which okay, maybe depends where you go to law school. I don’t know. Where did you go to law school. You see hastings, you see hastings university? Okay. I went to philadelphia temple. So could be a different philosophy thing. Maybe prime ing and priming. Ok, let’s, stay prim and proper when our prime ing and priming and talk about the private benefit doctrine what is what is that one? So this is the broadest rule in its applicability. It’s really? Just saying that in order to be organized exclusively and operated primarily for your exam purposes, you need to serve public purposes as opposed to private interests. So what this mean, really? Some examples would be entering into unfavorable or unreasonable contracts with third parties. It may be serving too small. The class of beneficiaries. Okay, wait, wait. Let’s, let ze unpack this little bit for listeners so unfavourable or unreasonable contracts. What? What does that? What does that look like? You? Yeah, so for example, paying more than fair market value for goods and services. Okayo are agreeing to certain terms and conditions that are just to the detriment of the organization, really giving more to that third party than the organization is getting in return. Okay? And that could be any any vendor doesn’t have tto be anybody who has a relationship to the we’re going to get to those but doesn’t have to have any relationship to the charity at this point right in this in-kind benefits and that’s quite the private benefit rules really the broader because we’re talking about any person, just any person out there saying that you cannot serve their private interests. You really deserve that public interest, okay, right, you’re enriching them unreasonably, and so your public benefit is being eroded, right? And it’s currently the iris acknowledges, though you know with e-giving public benefit, there may be some private interests that benefit from that. So the key for the private benefit doctrine is that any private interests that are served, they need to be incidental. So thie irs looks at it both on it qualitative perspective and saying it’s just a byproduct of serving that public benefit as well, quantitative so that private interests being served needs to be in a substantial amount as compared to the public benefit on an example would be an organization chooses to help with the restoration of a lake for public use. Yeah, and there’s certain properties that live around the lake, those properties are going to increase in value if that lake is improved. But that’s a byproduct of fixing this lake so that the public can come in and use it as a public space. And when they compare it, then hopefully thie value that’s being given to these homeowners that live on the lake, hopefully insubstantial as compared to the public benefit that’s being served by fixing this lake. Okay, way sent. I sent live listener love out to minneapolis, minnesota. That could apply right there because it’s, the land of ten thousand lakes that’s very timely example. Very, very bright. You see, hastings, very good law school. You’re the outstanding young attorney in two thousand twelve, so i’m not surprised at all. You’d make that connection. Okay, so is this. So this is sort of related to ensure ensuring your exam purpose the same as what the irs does when they initially evaluate whether you’re entitled to a tax exempt five oh one c three status, right? This is just sort of same evaluation, but ongoing absolutely and so for organizations out there that are applying for their toxic status, private benefit is a big red flag for the irs in delaying the application or maybe even a denial of exemption. So it’s important to understand this when you’re developing your programs and you’re describing it on your application and also thinking into the future about how you’re going to operate, right? It’s not it’s, not enough to just do it at the outset, meet meet, meet the criteria in the beginning, get your approval and then lose. Lose, i guess lew’s mission focus. Really? I mean, you are supposed to be a public charity, right? Public benefit. Ok. And the organization’s record on this well on their annual information returns so that’s another area that even after they get their exemption, that they need to be cognizant of this rule, and understand that their programs need teo being compliant with this doctrine. So it’s part of the form nine ninety or the nine. Ninety easy there’s an explicit question are you serving? Would say no to that? Yeah, the questions they ask, though, certainly can reveal those types of facts. So when you describe your mission or you describe your biggest program on these are the things that will come up also looking at payments, you know what parties do you have contracts with? What kind of relationship you have with them? All of this information just kind of comes out through the form because it asked so many questions. Okay, interested? I want to send live listener love teo someone who joined us from brisbane, australia live love look live love going out to brisbane. Emily, there is, uh, anything else you want to say about the private benefit doctrine that that broadest of the three, i think that’s i think that’s a good start. You feel you’ve exhausted that. Ok, ok, i’m not exhausted. I’m not saying i’m exhausted. I’m just exhausted the topic way, tio. Now you have the prohibition against private in your mint. I like that word in your mitt spelled with an area of course in your mint is that? How you would say in your mentor, do you say in norman? And you would say in your mind, okay, i thought, maybe hastings, you say it differently than, like primary dreamer. Ok, what’s this what’s, this mean private in your mint? So this this doctrine actually comes from the language in five twenty three of the internal revenue code, which says that no part of him, that earnings of the exempt organization can unearth the benefit of any private shareholder or individuals in your and your to benefit right private, individual or shareholder. Okay. In other words, it means that the organization cannot give a disproportionate share of benefit, too. Specific people and what’s different about this rule on the main difference from the private benefit rules. But it’s looking at just a specific group of people what they call insiders, which are persons who are in a position to exercise significant influence over the organization. So directors the officers and directors right? Sanders to write. And so the most common example of where these problems who comes up is with excessive executive compensation because you’re giving a disproportionate share of benefit to someone who has significant this’s something that we see in the press in the in the popular press a lot. Where a million dollars, nine and a half dollars salaries. And meanwhile, the organization’s cutting the programs. Okay, i mean, it’s certainly an important issue, and it does make people very angry. And when they give their money to the station to find out that you know the disproportionate share going to insiders who have control over the organization but to give to be fair to it may not be a disproportionate share. Me, if it’s a big enough charity, a million dollars salary could be very well justified, right? Yeah, absolutely. Andi, we have just just, uh, let you know, we just have a minute before break or so okay. Um, and i just wanted to point out to there’s other ways that this comes up. For example, paying excessive red paying again less than fair market value for goods and services from an insider. The greg mortenson issue. With central asia institute. There’s. A lot of speculation about whether about organization violated private interment rules because they paid so much to support his book signings and, you know, the publication of his book. And there was a question of what did they actually get in return? There’s. Lots of ways that private interment can happen, even though what we see most commonly is executive compensation issues. All right, we’re going to take a break when we returned. Of course, emily chance days we listen, we keep talking about private benefits, not dirty, but back. Stay with us. Dahna hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it it better because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance? Focus and motivation. Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop, second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back, emily there’s. No there’s, no rule against doing business with boardmember sze businesses though, right? Of course, no there’s not, but because of these types of private benefit rules certainly you want to be cautious that’s an organization and make sure that you understand what is appropriate and what wouldn’t be appropriate, even if it’s the terms and conditions there all there you also have to think about how the public’s going to do it, and how your supporters and also your critics so that all gets taken into account as well. Okay, are there’s some measures that we can use for what’s what’s market value what’s appropriate if let’s say a boardmember is offering office space for rent for the organisation. But what do we do? A market analysis what’s your advice? Yeah, those are all great. Basically you want to take all the steps to show that it’s being negotiated at arm’s length? I’m getting independent appraisal having let’s say if the contract approved, i haven’t reviewed by an attorney you know, documenting in your meeting minutes what it is that you’re considering and why this is justified and why this is really in further in severe exam purposes. All of those steps are going to help protect the organization on it is important because under this doctrine, there’s no de minimus exception. You know, we talked about with the private benefit doctrine that you can have incidental private interests served with the private and merriment doctrine where we’re just looking at insiders it’s an absolute rule and the way that it’s written on the irish i can actually take away your tax exempt status if you violate it. Now we don’t see that happen very often, but let’s, hold off on that. So so there’s. So when you say there’s no de minimus testing me even just a little bit over, say, ah, market value or a little bit over what would be an arm’s length transaction could be in violation of the prohibition against private inhuman. Yeah. In theory, yes, at one dollars. Okay, okay. You’re right. We don’t see it happen a lot because that is a very city air penalty for let’s. Say something that can be corrected or something. That’s. Very small. An amount. So what the irish did they developed. What is the third rule? The excess benefit transaction rolls. On basically what this does is it creates an immediate sanctions so that the irs doesn’t have to go so far as to i’m takeaway tax exempt got it intermediate sanctions okay, immediate sanctions, so this fool is going to sound very similar, but there are a little there are some differences on this school basically says that an organization cannot provide an economic benefit. Tio what i’m going to call it disqualified person, which i’ll explain in a second have exceeds the consideration that the organization is receiving in return, so disqualified person is similar to the concept of an insider, but they want to use a different term for it. You could have just said the supplies for insiders, there was someone and there’s a little nuance to it, it’s someone who has a substantial influence over the organization within the last five years. So we’re thinking of the same type of people, though high level managers, directors hyre speeding, please let’s say papa upleaf founders the same types of people that they choose to call it disqualified person under this role on basically if it found that there’s an excess benefit transaction, the penalty now is an excise tax. So it’ll be twenty five percent of the excess benefit tax to the disqualified person. You received that. Okay, let’s, unpack this a bit. All right. So it’s paid by the individual, right? It’s paid by that disqualified person to dp. Okay. And they could actually get bumped to a two hundred percent tax if they don’t correct it. Ok, ok. Also important for organizations is an organizational manager can also get taxed if they knowingly and willingly approved that transaction as tax tax as an individual. You mean yes. Ten percent of the excess benefit up tio twenty thousand dollars. Okay, so the organization would be prohibited in these cases from from paying these excise taxes for the individual. And it would be inappropriate for the organization to pay the taxes because there are certain indemnification that an organization can provide again, this is going to be a state law that california, for example, a breach of your fiduciary duty takes you out of being qualified indemnification. So here, if you’re you knowingly and willingly approving a gn xs benefit transaction, that certainly, you know, raises the concern about reaching a fiduciary duty and having approved that and so, organizations again doing their homework, getting reliable third party dahna toe look at asking for professionals for, you know their ex offgrid opinion on the matter. Those are all things that help protect the organizational managers from ever finding themselves in this situation on def, they if the charity pride tried to pay the excise tax, that could be in violation of the prohibition against private in your mint, keep going. Good. It’s a grand circle. Okay, we have to leave it there. Oh, god. You have one more point. You can make it a few seconds. Yeah, organisations would also look up and you’re going to put me in jarring in jail a procedure called a rebuttable presumption of reason. Profnet oh, my goodness. She does this with ten seconds left. Idea rebuttable presumption of reasonable this. Go ahead. Googling it’s a three step process that organization’s community based we give some the presumption that they’ve done a reasonable entered into a reasonable transaction with these disqualified people. So we don’t need to get into the details but write it down. Look it up. Okay. Say the phrase one more time. Rebuttable presumption of reasonable next-gen multi-channel. Is an attorney at the non-profit exempt organizations latto group in san francisco and our one of our regular legal contributors. You can follow her on twitter at emily chan. Thanks for being on. Emily would talk to you in just a couple weeks. You’ll be back, thank you very much. My thanks also, of course, teo melanie schnoll begun and the people at her company at morgan stanley who help arrange that interview next week nufer ends at events andrea nirenberg is president of nierenberg consulting group. She wants you to deepen and broaden the relationships that you create with people who come out to your events. We’re going to go deep and broad sounds promising and amy sample ward she’s going to kick off her new exalted status as social media contributed to the show, you’re going to be on once a month. We’re going to talk next week about designing for engagement, andi that maybe a jog in jail before she even gets on the show? I don’t know, maybe i’m a take her mug shot between now and next friday, designing for engagement, social media, new social media contributor amy sample ward shall i unpack it? For you, trust me, have you joined? Are linked in group? We have members from galveston, texas, dubuque, iowa, and muncie, indiana, where ball mason jars come from. Are you in the linked in group? You ought to be because you can continue the conversation with guests at that site. I do it. I asked questions follow-up questions, and in fact, i have a perfect one for emily. If you’re going to talk a little about that rebuttable presumption on the linked in group, i have a new fund-raising fundamentals podcast up just up this week, recruiting the best volunteers for your fund-raising this is the podcast that i do for the chronicle of philanthropy, you’ll find that ten minute podcast on itunes it’s, also on the chronicle of philanthropy website and again, it’s called fund-raising fundamentals wishing you best luck. Good luck, the way performers do around the world last week was italian in cool. Oh, allah bolena, and i’m wondering if you are still in the ass of the whale, you’re gonna have to stay there for another week because not till next week. We’ll have a new language lesson for you and a new way performers wish. Each other luck. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is line producer shows. Social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, how i hope you will be with me next friday, one to two p m eastern, at talking alternative broadcasting, which is always at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that shooting the ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving e-giving it’s. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 10, 2012: Working With Your Small Organization Board & See The Right CRM System

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Interviewing Terry Billie, Wendy Nadel & Lisa Robb at Fund Raising Day 2012
Terry Billie, Wendy Nadel & Lisa Robb: Working With Your Small Organization Board

What’s special about working with small shop boards? We’ll talk about setting expectations; recruiting; training; fundraising and assessing your board’s capabilities. My guests from Fund Raising Day 2012 are Terry Billie from the Hudson River Museum; Wendy Nadel from Yonkers Partners in Education; and Lisa Robb, executive director of the New York Council on the Arts.

 

Maria Semple
Maria Semple: See The Right CRM System

Constituent relationship management. You’ve got constituents: employees, donors, volunteers, vendors, clients. How do you manage your relationships with them and what’s the impact on your prospect management? Maria Semple is The Prospect Finder and our prospect research contributor.

This week’s segment with Maria has a survey. Please take a moment to answer three quick questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.

 


Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/J68T3SM


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Durney hello and welcome to the show, it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. I’m excited to be back in the studio. It’s been a couple of weeks. Oh, do i hope you were with me last week? Of course i do. I’d be devastated to hear that you had missed last week’s show it was audit week, you’re hr audit. Karen bradunas is a human resources consultant. There may be things hiding in your hr closet that you need to bring out and dust off to avoid problems later on, we talked about your benefits plan immigration, paperwork and that’s not only for immigrant laborers and what to do if you get audited by federal or state regulators and your social media audit, scott koegler continued our discussion from the one hundred show on sites that help you assess how you’re doing in social media. Hoot suite marketsmart radiant six on a couple of others scott is the editor of non-profit technology news on our regular tech contributor this week, working with your small organization board what’s special about working with small shop boards we’ll talk about setting expectations recruiting, training fund-raising and assessing your boards capabilities my guests from fund-raising day this past june are terry billy from the hudson river museum, wendy no adele from yonkers, partners in education and lisa rob, executive director of the new york council on the arts also today, see the smart cr m system, constituent relationship management you’ve got constituents, employees, donors, volunteers, vendors, clients how do you manage your relationships with them and what’s the impact on your prospect management? Maria simple will be with me, she’s, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor between the guests on tony’s take to my block this week charity corporatization reduction three i’ve talked about this before the blurring of the line between corporations and charities. I’ve got a couple of new data points they’re on my block and i’ll talk about them on tony’s, take two use non-profit radio the hashtag to join the conversation on twitter hashtag non-profit radio right now we take a break and when we return all intro my pre recorded interview from fund-raising day on working with your small organization board, stay with us e-giving didn’t think dick tooting good ending things you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Getting anything. Dahna cubine joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show, new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday starting soon. Number ten, ten a m on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna hi there, and welcome back. I want to send some live listener love got listeners newport, north carolina. I miss you, north carolina. I own a home there, and i haven’t been there in a few months, but i’ll be going back next month. Missing north carolina st louis, missouri live listener love out to st louis right now. We have pre recorded interview from fund-raising day here in new york city this past june on working with your small organization board. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day conference two thousand twelve in new york city were in midtown manhattan at the marriott marquis hotel on the subject we’re talking about right now is working with your board. My guests are terry billy, assistant director of advancement at the hudson river museum. Wendy adele, executive director of yonkers partners in education, and lisa rob, executive director, the new york council on the arts ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. You have all three of you and thank you for taking time on a busy conference day right before lunch on we’re going to get youto lunch. Don’t worry, you won’t be late for lunch. Your subject is working with, uh, boards of small organizations. Lisa, why are boards of small organizations different than boards of larger organizations? Well, normally boards at large organizations that do a fair amount of fund-raising it’s a given and planning and very kind of instrumental involvement with the board, but less so on a volunteer basis or operational basis. Smaller organizations tend to have closer relationships to boards in terms of really what they’re doing for you and it’s also more difficult for them than at large organizations to get some of those things done. So you sometimes encounter at a good small, a good board in a small organization, tremendous work ethics and tremendous alignment with the mission because it is more of a struggle to get to some of the resource is that the larger organization board sort of inherently have. Wendy, why don’t you just set some context? Explain what youngers, partners and education is about what’s your work. We are a public education fund that supports the yonkers public school district for an independent organization that works to increase the number of students in yonkers who graduate from high school and completed postsecondary program. Okay, and now terry what’s, the specific mission of the hudson river museum, the hudson river museum is a history, science and art museum, providing opportunities to brought in the artistic and cultural experiences for people in the hudson river region. Okay, lisa wanted to explain what your work is with counsel in the arts. I’m the new york state counts on the arts is an agency of new york state government, and we work for the governor and receive our money through the budget. Process from the budget enacted every year by the governor and legislature. And we distribute thirty five million dollars of public funds to about fifteen hundred organizations, of which eighty percent have budgets of under seven hundred thousand small organizations. Tony let’s, dispel a myth that you have to be with just a few minutes ago. Boards of small organizations are not necessarily small board know they can range anywhere from thirty five to seventeen or fifteen, usually not less than that. And do we find the same type of diversity on a small organization board that will find in a larger organization board? Yes and no. Sometimes you may have a larger organization may have more corporate people that have connections to larger, mainstream corporations. Then you may have some people that have more connections to private foundations community board sent have a lot more community leaders, people who are connected politically, people who have businesses in the area on dh. Then, of course, you do have people that live in the area that may work for a corporation in a, you know, another capacity. And you also may have some folks that are government based. Okay, so you’ll have that local commitment, as lisa was describing, right? You have a little bit more local commitment. You’re your group may live in the area where your organization is, where a larger organization your your trustees may live elsewhere, right? So so so why don’t we stay with that, terry? What? How can we leverage that? That local nature of the board? Well, you’re trying to first off people become members of your board because they’re interested in what you do, and they want to help it serve your community, the community that they live in. So the urge to be part of something bigger than they are is one of the things that you want to work on. And so then you just need to work and find out what their capacities are, who their contacts are and see whether where their strengths are, too. Have them help you. Okay, twenty let’s start with sort of the chronology of board members life cycle, uh, recruitment. What? What are the challenges and that a small organization faces in recruiting successful boardmember we liked it really? Just talk from how we do it in my organization, but we typically try to identify specific areas of need that we have on our board and some of the gaps of skillsets connections, how people are connected on and we try teo, identify people who can fill those gaps on the board. Sure, and typically, the way we recruit them is through personal relationships. Typically somebody on our board might know of somebody or i might have met somebody, or in some cases, people have even approached us with an interest in the work that we d’oh. And now, since you are a local organization, you’re drawing from a smaller pool of potential talent. That’s correct, but you have the advantage of it being local and again, the commitment that at least talked about that’s. Correct? Okay, okay. Back-up lisa, special challenges of other special challenges around recruitment of boards for small charities that we should talk about. Well, i think one of the things we talked about in our workshop earlier, wass the wendy spoke to it. Well, that sort of a lining, the at a small local level. You may you want to make sure you know really what you want their role to be because they really is a commitment level. And interest level that is often not there. In the larger organizations. People may actually want to do tacit work for you. They may want to make real connections in real time for you, it’s, really not a so, you know, they’re not doing it for source social reasons. So i think, a lining that, you know, the individual in what they want to contribute, and then what the organization needs is even more interesting with smaller organizations. Because there’s more opportunity, i think, to really work with the boards one on one with real goals, that they want it, you know, complete with you, because you’re a small organization, you can actually do that. The goal isn’t a, you know, twenty five million dollars capital campaign, it’s a. You know of of two hundred fifty thousand dollars scholarship campaign, where numbers that become more achievable. So i think that is a challenge. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven, new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Money, time, happiness, success, where’s, your breakthrough. Join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy. Share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. To create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation. Fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’ve had a guest on not too long ago. Melanie schnoll begun. Her work is with very ultra high net worth clients in the bank. I apologize. Either j p morgan or morgan stanley. Apologies, melanie. But her her one of the point that she made was that very wealthy people shouldn’t be ignored by small organizations. Potential boardmember because it could be bigger. They could be bigger players on a smaller board, of course. Plus you want their expertise, but they could be very interested in a small charity. Good when we actually have a few board members who have been on major major boards, like in new york city. Um who i think have a more gratifying experience. Kind of working on the more local level, rolling up their sleeves, having a direct impact on a cause rather than sitting on a fancy board and going tio three or four meetings a year and about feeling expected to write a check and doing nothing. So i think, that’s, that that’s really the just the distinction, right? Same thing here. My organization has a wide variety of folks in both wealthy and not so wealthy. But people who were really involved and and the smaller organization that’s that’s the reason why they become a member of the of the of the board is to get involved because they have a passion. So, terry, since fund-raising is so important for board members, how do we set the appropriate level of e-giving four boards at small organizations what’s your place there? Some places just give one level of giving for everyone saying, okay, everyone needs to give five thousand dollars or three thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars or whatever it is, but it has to relate to the size of the board’s budget. So for example, my organization does not have a specific geever get, but we expect everyone to participate in the annual fund everyone to give to the gala in some way, shape or form and everyone to give an additional gift of some sort. So you may have some folks that can give twenty five thousand dollars to the gala and then ten thousand to the annual fund and then an additional gift from their private foundation and then other people will, through their company or through there, and a combination of company and the personal money. Give five thousand to the gala, you know, one thousand to the annual fund and, you know, some other money, so it has to be a willingness to accept so it’s a willingness to accept what they khun dio right? Because it’s their capacity so it’s about having a conversation with the boardmember when they’re coming on to understand, to have them understand that there is a responsibility to see support the organization, and then to talk about what level that they’re comfortable giving it. So is that how you assess their capacity? And you’re just really you need to have a conversation what they’re comfortable with, right? Well, i mean, you’ve done the research, you’ve done the research before you brought him in as a trustee to kind of know what they’re pass it e issue done the the prospect research to say, ok, well, this person, you know, has given here there and what have you so you kind of have an idea of what they’re financial level is so then it’s a matter of having a careful conversation with them too say, you know, what is it that you feel comfortable with? And it is, of course. It’s important to set those expectations at the recruitment stage, right. Exactly together. Normally written down. I mean, this is not it’s not uncommon to have written documents that say your contribution will be two hundred fifty dollars. You know that that’s? Not an uncommon. Okay, where you’ll be expected to go to an event or you’ll be expected to cultivate whatever. It’s not uncommon to have those things even written down. It’s. Not like these air secret or uncomfortable conversations. You know, they’re just that’s just part of the business relationship. Most bored people understand they will be a set of contributions they have to make some of which include financial time. Whatever would you would you go so far as to recommend that they be a document that the boardmember signs? Yes. In most cases, there is a is a a a a board agreement. Okay, because liability means you normal. Ok, wendy, partners in education, we don’t have a written agreement, but we haven’t explicit verbal commitment that in most cases has been honored without a problem. Okay, it is not in a contract. All right. How about communications with with a small organization board is that? Is it any i’m guessing easier because most of the people are local? Terry, go ahead. Well, we my ceo communicates with the board on a regular basis. Individually, we have meetings every month, so every other, every was every other know every other month is an executive board meeting. And every other month on the other side is our full board meeting. And then we do not have a board meeting in august. So there’s that then there’s also committee. So we have committees, there’s, a finance committee and development committee, a program committee and nomine nominating committee. And so they usually meet every other month or every two months, three months or something like that. And then we all like i communicate with staff with the board members that i’m working with for a specific project or the, you know, different staff would work directly with the boardmember so it’s, more informal words again, a larger organization with larger, more high level board members, you may not have as much communication access access to them and communication through all your staff with them. It may just be a point to point from your ceo to the board or maybe your ceo, your cfo and your development person, the only people that talk to your board when they were going to say something on communicating for us. I’ve really have kind of individual relationships that the board members. And for the most part, i’d say seventy five percent of them. I have. I’m in communication with on a very regular basis, and you’re the executive director. S, right. Ok, which is, i guess. They’re more accessible to the charity. Also, the board members make themselves more accessible than a larger organization might find. Well, i find ways email, and i mean, i think communication is really easy, you know, whether wherever you live, you could just shoot and email and get a response, but because the board’s pretty active everybody’s working on something so there’s always i mean, it’s not the communication is not for the purpose. So much of updating as it is to kind of do the work, and we work together as you know, collaboratively on you, no specific issues and projects that puts me into direct communication with the board members on a fairly regular basis. So what about switching topics? Labbate hyre assessing the capacity of your board in different capability, different areas, maybe it’s fund-raising maybe it’s love assessing whether you have gaps in expertise? What what’s important? I think, wendy, we’ve all talked about nominating committee’s and what we do, we’re in all the organizations i’ve worked for is the nominating committee is one of the most important committees on any board or the nominating people, and we we do it very almost like database oriented. You know, here the five or six strands of talent that we need, you know, social talent, business, talent, political talent, you know what, marketing, whatever it is, you know, here’s the slots where that is filled now, here’s, what? We’re going to have gaps, we spend a lot of time looking at the term limits, and when people are coming up for renewal too, you know, because gaps will then because you really want to call today, you know, minimally, a year in advance, you want to start your cultivation efforts because you make no assumptions and and also things come up for people, you know, they were interested last year, but this year someone is ill in their family, they’ve gotten a promotion, they’re moving, etcetera, so the nominating committee is very important and to be very strategic about on the goals. I mean, you could have a goal that you have celebrities that’s fine, but, you know, you have to just make sure it’s all you’ve gotten what’s it called a pipeline, you know? So you’re constantly putting names into that pipeline, and your board is very active in that process. Well, they are on their on the nominee they are, the nominating committee rarely includes people from staff in anything other than, like a, you know, did that’s really very much the work of a board there also engaging the full board. Oh, christ, as they identify needs. Oh, you know that it’s talked about usually nominating and issues of bored recruitment are are usually part of certain board meetings. You know, it’ll come up as an agenda item and then there’s the nominating committee, which has, like, you were saying this most of the time, i talked to our board members when i was at pelham art center because they were working board. Wendy so a lot of the communication had to do a task oriented project management, things you were doing together, military. Anything you want to know about assessing the capacity of the board. Okay, what about board training? Any any differences in when a new boardmember comes on any differences that you’ve identified you, emmanuelle for smaller organizations that okay, please go ahead. We have aboard manual that we’ve been evolving our organization’s not quite five years old yet sweeping, evolving that and new board members that come on, get an orientation. They are given emmanuel. And each year we, you know, have ah, two three hour orientation for our new members and that’s how we train them. And there is no big formal training program but it’s more of an orientation to the organization. Ok? And most of them have been to something that we, you know, most of them know us and not where they joined the board. Someone in the other workshop had an interesting idea. She spoke about on their board. They actually had, like, a, you know, in high school or college, the key club where you came in new and someone was aligned to you. They had a senior boardmember each new boardmember that came on, there was a relationship. They were the mentor to that new boardmember i thought that was a really good idea. I thought that was a great idea. What we do is we have a retreat every year once a year. It’s ah, saturday afternoon. And so we are doing both role playing or discussions talking about topics that are of interest, reviewing our strategic plan. So last year at our board retreat, we went through some role playing in how tio make an ask good. Okay, excellent. That kind of leads me to something interesting. I think i hope hyre what about board members who aren’t comfortable asking directly, but maybe can be engaged in other activities around fund-raising why did you continue, terry? Well, some people are very they they feel uncomfortable asking their friends, their family or going to to even business colleagues to set up a meeting for something. Um, and so you need to find different ways for them to to support whether they can host a party of their friends at their home. We’ve done that. Where then you have your museum staff and their friends. They’re so the museum staff could do the cultivation because we’re that’s what we do. S o or you can have them come with you on a site, is it with a funder or a lunch? And they just need to be the intro person and the ask and the program description and all of that comes from the staff people, so they are observing their participating in some way, but they’re also they’re shadowing. They’re learning through it by going through this, you know, site visit or you? Know, observing the ask at a cocktail party or what have you do you find that they become the ones who are reluctant in the beginning? Tio actually ask become more comfortable. Have you seen that? Well, a little bit, yeah, i mean that’s the goal and sometimes it may take a little longer depends on everyone’s personalities different and some people are more comfortable in the limelight and others are not. So you have to kind of work with what they’re willing to do, what their comfort level is and you can’t force someone into something that i want dio that will be a disaster. Forget wendy’s. I don’t think i think something terry set is is really key, and that is, you know, in addition to asking people for money equally is important is is just opening up doors, making introductions and that’s i mean, even for people that don’t like to ask for money making introductions is really important because, you know, particularly if you really believe in the mission of the organization, the organization khun sell itself that’s themselves, that pipeline that lisa mention constantly introducing new people. I know we have a boardmember and you know, one of things i like to do is just kind of focus when i have my board members do. And we have one boardmember who has some really key foundation contacts and his what i asked him to do every years you get me into two foundations and that’s it that’s it that’s your job and that’s huge. That could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. So anything you want and what i do think that friendraising and fund-raising are all part of that same resource development. And as long as you can make sure there’s enough prongs and what you think of resource development there’s no, boardmember that can’t help you if we have to leave it there, ladies. Thank you very much, wendy. Tell you. Thank you. Lisa. Rob is executive director of the new york council on the arts. Wendy liddell. Adele is executive director of yonkers partners and education. And terry billy is assistant director for advancement at the hudson river museum. Ladies, thank you very much. Thank you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve at the marriott marquis in midtown manhattan. My thanks to the three ladies. Some live listener love out tio st louis, missouri, hello, jersey city, new jersey. Welcome back. My dad was born there, i told you, used to live on mcadoo of reston, virginia. Hello, live listener love, and then we go further east vietnam. Welcome. I wish i knew the city. I’m sorry, our software doesn’t tell us what city. Right now we take a break, and when we returned tony’s, take two, and then maria simple will join me to see the smart cr m system. So i hope you stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll i’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. That live listener loved that i sent to vietnam is joined by love going out to korea, and if you’re listening, if in a foreign country i’d love for you. Teo, tell us what city you’re in because our software doesn’t tell us so you could tell me on the linked in group or the facebook page or tweet me. Let me know what cities you’re in vietnam and korea tony’s take to roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is charity corporatization re ducks three i’ve blocked this before, as you can tell from the title, and i’m still concerned about blurring lines between charities and corporations. More cities, for instance, are collecting what they call pilots payments in lieu of taxes from charities or they’re considering getting these payments from charities pittsburgh in memphis for most recently and there’s in my block there’s a link to a chronicle of philanthropy article talks about pittsburgh and memphis and a number of other cities that are either collecting those or looking at it. Also, we have corporations starting to look like charity’s, taking some in some of those charity attributes there’s the b corp in california. That’s ah, a form of organisation be corp. For an organization that gives some public benefit as well as having a profit motive. And in a lot of states there are low profit, limited liability corporations also called l three c’s on dh does i put this together with some other data points and just concerns me that the charity start to look like corporations and start getting treated like corporations in terms of those taxes. On that corporations start to look like charities. It’s on my block. The name of the post is charity corporatization re ducks three. My block is tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, the tenth of august thirty fourth show of the year. Joining me now, as she does once a month, is maria simple. Maria is the prospect finder she’s, an experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now with an exclamation mark at the end. And she is at maria simple a si m pl e on twitter. Maria, welcome back. Hi there, tony. How are you today? I’m terrific. Very well, good to have you back. Thank you. We’re talking today about c r m constituent relationship management. Why is this important? Well, you know, it’s very important for non-profits to track relationships that they have especially fund-raising purposes, in my opinion, you know, i’m talking more about fund-raising side there as a prospect researcher that you want to be able to see, you know, where our people interconnected you want to be ableto have a certain data point certainly noted in a system that’s going to be able to capture the relevant points of information that are important for your organization and a broader cr m really goes beyond even the donor database. It would be able to track relationships that you have with volunteers with perhaps people that are coming in, uh, to use your organization’s services on a daily basis so it can give you a really broad picture. And, you know, i any any time you can have any type of a tool that shows sort of relationship management for a mapping tool, you know, i’m all for that, okay? And you and i have talked about too, that prospects don’t only come from donors and fund-raising quote fund-raising prospects. But could be employees or vendor’s vendors to the organization or consultants. Right? Right, right. So these are all the types of relationships that you can manage in a system, you know, ideally, you know, a picture scenario where you are a ah non-profit executive at a small commit sides non-profit and you get a phone call and somebody says, you know, hi, this is, you know, tony martignetti i’m looking to talk to you a little bit more and expand on our last conversation. If it’s me calling, you probably should hang up, but it’s using some other example? Yes. You know, you would want to be able to instantly trying to recall well, gee, what? Tony and i last talk about what were the talking points? You know what? What was his area of interest? Right? So ideally, if you’re, you know, at your computer, will you be able to just, you know, put tony’s name in there and pull up some sort of a data sheet on tony said that you’d be able to track what what were our last conversations? And, of course, you know, this is really important. There’s a lot of turnover right at non-profits so, you know, you want to be able to have that that that long term relationship tracked a donor doesn’t care, right? They don’t care that there’s while they developed relationships with key personnel at the non-profit but in terms of the overall longevity and their commitment to that non-profit organization, whomever that executive director development director is, um, he’s probably not as important as the overarching mission and trying to make sure that that there’s that continuity that people will continue to understand what that donor’s intent is what donors specific interest are. Yeah, it becomes quite embarrassing to say, you know, someone who’s new in the position, you know? I don’t i don’t really know what what conversations were before me, you know, it all just needs to be documented. You’re right for the institutional knowledge and continuity, yeah, absolutely, really critical and donorsearch budget organizations are really just using some sort of a spreadsheet right now to manage this, you know, there are systems out there that are fabulous, and they really range in price. Do you want me to talk about a particular guide that can that can help them kind of identify this. And i can actually put some information on on your paige is well about it. Yeah, in just a moment. Let me just get to one of the survey questions that we had about what? What systems people are using now to manage constituent data. Fifty percent of using razor’s edge. And about seventeen percent are using donor perfect and about a third of using other other software systems. But nobody said one of the choices was it’s on paper or in our heads. And so, thankfully, nobody nobody said that. And nobody said excel spreadsheets. Good thing. So all right, so people are past the index cards, at least. Listeners. Well, this is sophisticated audience, so you’re not going to get your average executive director ceo fundraiser listening to this is a sophisticated show, so the sample is skewed. So we’ll presume that there are some who would say it’s on paper in our heads, but they’re not our listeners. They could be were welcomed them, because then after today’s show, they could choose a different answer. Find value. This’s a that’s. Right? Of course. S oh, please. Why don’t you, uh you have an idea if we had just a couple minutes before break, you have ah, a place where people can sort of compare software, is that what you have? Yeah, absolutely. June twenty eleven idealware dot org’s, uh, terrific website for all types of things having to do with technologies for non-profits they came out with a free downloadable guide that’s called the consumer’s guide to low cost donor-centric and they reviewed lots of systems, and then they go into in depth and review sort of their top ten systems and across all kinds of different, uh, data points, you know, they’re reviewing them, of course, for price. And by the way, all assistance they reviewed technically felling under the four thousand dollars range. Okay, so these are not going to be like razors edge is not going to included, right? Razor’s edge is a very high entry cost. Yeah, so i thought, well, with, you know, your your listener audience of the smaller to midsize non-profit that some of their recommendations might actually fit very well for the non-profits they’re looking at, you know, how well can you manage the donor information? The reporting, tracking events, some of the systems khun do that? Well, yeah, because event event attendees that’s another constituency, right? That’s, right? They might attend an event, but they’re not. They’re not donors in the strict out of pocket sense without any other, any participation. So event attendees another important constituency that’s, right? And they are also some of the systems will do male merging very well. Others are not as great at it. Email. How well can the system email out or play? Well with an outside system, for example, i know that there are certain databases that played very well with donorsearch software, like tapestry in constant contact or constant contact in sales force. Dot com they are two systems that integrate very well together. So integration actually is another data point that they looked at. So, you know, i recommend everybody take a look at that particular guide because it’s free it’s downloadable um and idealware is actually having ah, replay on their webinar that they have on that particular topic as well. And i happen to have received an email. Just tweak that they’re having a sale on their recorded webinars. So for this month, only august it appears that they are nine dollars to download the past recorded webinar. Okay, but and the the survey sounds like sort of a consumer reports of of c r e m now does idealware this is important to know his idealware create today of their own software package or now that they’re not in that business there just a value. They’re reviewing it, right? They will value you don’t. Okay, so we’ll put the idealware dot com. But what? What we put oh, dot org’s. Thank you. But why don’t we put the link to the this document? Go on the facebook page and in the linked in group? Sure, i can do that. Okay. Thank you, maria. You’re always very good. And maria is maria doesn’t only say she’s going to do it actually doesn’t. So the show ends at two p m eastern. I would expect now putting round spot. No, but i’ll just say very quickly. Maria will have the stuff up. I’ll just leave it there. She always does. You always. You always have been. Um okay. What? You had a conversation with a ceo of, of of of a newer, newer offering in this field right recently? Well, actually. That’s what prompted me to kind of take a look at their whole cr m area? There’s there’s a very new, interesting software out there. And it’s called unify o you and i f y o dot com. And by the way, it works best on google chrome. So i know that was one of the questions that i made sure that we are listeners answering on since you’re right, but since you just mentioned it, let sze get that question out. It was which internet browser or using it work fifty percent explorer. Fifty percent are chrome, and then a handful of people, i guess, have to and the about a third of those said fire fox so a third of the yeah, about a third of the half what the hell am i talking? About? Fifty percent said explorer, fifty percent said chrome and about seventeen percent said firefox. So obviously summer using multiple systems. That’s what i was trying to convey in the past minute and a half. Okay, so way. Just have a minute before break. So say a little bit more and then we’ll come back. Okay? Sure. So what it is is a technically they call it a browser extension, and if you go to their website, they have a really cool little video. And i can post, uh, on your page is, well, a link to a specific video that talks about how confused for prospect research and that’s what really caught my attention, but basically what they say is that it bridges the gap between you and your c r m so and we’ll give you a little bit more information on that. But it really completes your customer profiles toe all of your cloud applications, so it integrates with several systems already sales force dot com high rise, which is another cr m system that i’m actually not as familiar with, um, and so, since sales force dotcom does have a non-profit maria, we have to take a break hold. That thought you were just saying, since salesforce dot com does have a non-profit when we return, we’ll let you finish that sentence. Stay with us. Talking. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. 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Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Altum welcome back, maria. Simple it’s. Your turn. Teo, finish that sentence on thing about sales force dot com they do have a non-profit related cr m so eyes that free budges. Do you know if that’s free? I believe it is. Yeah, i have. Yes, i was approached, i think. But it wasn’t recently by a salesforce dot com representative. I think it is free. The dover street version for charities. Yeah, i believe it is so what’s kind of cool about it is, you know, it had caught my attention was the fact that if i’m assuming now that the sales force dot com tool that non-profits air using would indeed integrate with unify oh, so if we’ve got any sales forthe users out there, i’d love some feedback. You know, through my page or tony’s page to see if it’s working well for you, but basically once you load this unify o icon up into your tool bar so let’s say then you are looking at somebody’s profile in sales force dot com you can click on the little unify. Oh, uh, icon and it will show you other other interactions that have happened with that person, so if that person has been tweeting about your organization or any email communications that have happened, you can manually put in specific notes about a person, so i’m thinking for a really small to midsize non-profit this could be a very interesting solution. Now, this is brand new. Tony okay, yeah, this is brand new, this is you launched may twenty twelve um, i had an opportunity to skype twice with the ceo of this company in recent weeks so i could get a better handle on understanding it and they love feedback. So, maria, it sze pulling in the whole web when you when you identify somebody that you’re you’re interested in? Yeah, well, it integrates best with certain platforms, but yeah, i mean, if you’re browsing and google chrome, so i was right, it has to be it only works in google chrome so far right far only google chrome, but they are looking to develop it for the other platforms as well. And, you know, i just think, it’s something really need to take a look at if if any of our listeners have an opportunity to do so and provide some feedback, they hadn’t created this. For the not non-profit sector originally, so to know that there could be this applique ability because you can have teams of people so let’s say you’ve got the executive director, the development director, maybe a program director and maybe a couple of board members be considered a team. All this data can be shared. So if you and i are on a team, tony and i want to try and figure out what? When were the last communications, it would pull an information about your last email communications okay, and are you testing this unify? Oh, maria, you know, i’ve been playing around with it a little bit, but i don’t have sales force dot com loaded here so that’s, why? I’d love to know somebody who does have it to see how that how, how that could integrate but it pulled in lengthen dad a twitter feed and i think it’s gonna have a lot of applicability it’s free right now, and it won’t stay free forever, so there will be a fee attached to this at some point. But i’ve been told by the ceo they’re going to keep it very affordable for the nonprofit sector. More broadly, when you’re looking at your your cr m software it’s important to know what, what your goals are from your from your system. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, is it’s a system that is only going to be turning out donorsearch ports is this system, as i mentioned earlier, that might have to do mail merges and email marketing? Um, is this a system that is going to be able to help you track, um, interactions, right with those air critical for prospect freak prospect research? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you think about all the points on the continuum on the development cycle. So you’ve got the prospect identification and research think about how will it play into cultivation? Solicitation the thank you, the follow-up and the stewardship i c c r m being invaluable not only for me, it’s, a prospect researcher, but certainly in stewarding donor forward. So it should have really flexibility to be able to provide additional notes. I love cloud based systems personally and don’t put me in george in jail. Now, i think the audience knows club. I think scott and i have talked about cloudgood other other other guests have, okay? I think people should know the cloud by now, i’m clear to talk. Wait, we just have about a minute and a half, though. Okay? So any cloud based system, for example, will enable any board members that you give access to the system, say they are very active and cultivating and solicited, soliciting people and meeting with people outside the office. Then they can certainly go ahead and type in notes about those particular meetings. And that again for that continuity is very, very important. Maria simple is the prospect finder. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now. And her website is the prospect finder dot com maria. Such a pleasure. Thanks very much. Thanks. Always tony on dh something occurred to me as i was talking to maria, you know, wanna make sure that i’m not sounding hypocritical because i blogged and talked about on tony’s take two. My concern about charities being too much like corporations. And now here we are talking about with marie about salesforce, dot com and unify. Oh, a system that wasn’t developed for charities was developed for companies. I do think there are good practices, great practices. In the in the for-profit corporation sector that charity’s can learn from and vice versa. I think corporations could soften themselves in some ways and learn a lot from charities. It’s the it’s, the so learning from each other, that’s to me, that’s distinct from starting to, um b organized by be regulated by by the other by state and federal overseers as one that you’re really not as as as b corp to start to look like r l three sees the limit for-profit limited liability corporations, i think start toe look at so that’s the start to look like charities that’s the distinction for me between what maria and i were talking about when i blogged about this week my thanks, tio terry, billy, wendy nadella, lisa, rob, of course, and the organizer’s of fund-raising day twenty twelve as well as maria next week grow your grassroots. Michael o’brien is a consultant and a grassroots organizer. Why this might be good for your organization and how do you get started? We’re talking about bringing new people to your cause and how to keep them excited about your work through the grassroots. Also, scott koegler returns. He’s the editor of non-profit technology news in our tech contributor you know i’m gonna be talking about devices, laptops, desktops, mobile we’re all over. Social networks checked out are linked in group facebook page maria will have the resource is up there? Follow me on twitter and use our hashtag non-profit radio. Also, i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy it’s called fund-raising fundamentals. If you like this show, you might like fund-raising fundamentals it’s on itunes, it’s, a ten minute monthly podcast devoted to fund-raising continuing to wish you good luck in the way that performers do around the world. I want to keep this up because it’s fun and and i can do whatever i want on this so house with buy-in bruv house won’t buy-in bro that’s german for break your neck and your leg like we would say in the u s break a leg. Germans want you to go further because they have a large orthopaedic surgeon constituency, so they weren’t broken necks and legs and my thanks to janice taylor for these language lessons and contributions. Do you have one away that foreigners greet performers that are just about to go on stage and what they wish them how they wish them luck. Share it with me, let me know, and be sure and tell me how to say it. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Janice taylor is our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, which you will always find at talking alternative dot com. I didn’t even think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You get anything. Dahna cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hyre