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Amy Sample Ward: 19NTC and NTEN
We kick-off our coverage of the 2019 Nonprofit Technology Conference with NTEN’s CEO, Amy Sample Ward. She dishes on the conference—including its wonderful food—Portland, and the organization she leads.





George Weiner: Strong Social Ads On $100 A Month
You can have an effective social media advertising campaign on a small budget, if you plan smartly for your targeting, messaging and measuring. George Weiner is co-founder of PowerPoetry.org.





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schnoll Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn die gastric if I had the stomach. The idea that you missed Today’s show. Nineteen ntcdinosaur n. Ten We kick off our coverage of the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference with intends CEO Aimee Semple Ward. She dishes on the conference, including its wonderful food, Portland and the organization she leads and strong social ads on one hundred dollars a month. You can have an effective social media advertising campaign on a small budget if you plan smartly for your targeting, messaging and measuring. George Winer is co founder of Power Poetry Dot or GE, and that was recorded at the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference on Tony’s Take two Grieving in your plant e-giving. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service, fund-raising Data driven and Technology enabled. Twenty dahna may slash pursuing by what your CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash Tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here we kick off our nineteen ninety six coverage with Amy Sample Ward. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference were at the convention center in Portland, Oregon, This interview. Like all of our nineteen ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profit make an impact there, Right next door here. I know you can see him on the video you got, you got you got a piece of them in the video and with me now is the CEO of the hosting organization of NTC, which a lot of people call. And ten we’LL get to that. But the organization is in ten. The conferences NTC and Amy Sample Ward is the CEO of and ten and, of course, our social media and technology contributor on non-profit radio as well. It’s wonderful to see you. Thank you. It’s nice to get to be in person as we say that every year, but it’s the only chance we get. Exactly. Teo I’LL have to coordinate a trip to New York at the same time is a records show. Yeah, that would be very nice if you could put it on a Friday. Friday. Wanted to. Were still same as we used to. Try and make it happen. How many years have you been out here now? Six, five six. Have I been well? I used to be out here. Well, yes, you were born here, but I moved back. Yeah, six years ago. Six years ago this summer. Because that’s six years ago this summer. I will have been the CEO. Okay, June. That’s right. You took you took in June. And before that, you were the membership director, Correct. But on non-profit radio? Much, much longer than that. Why do you know so much about me? This is like a strange fact findings. Because because because I’m common knowledge doesn’t know its way here. And I knew you think I don’t think I have a page on like a piano? I don’t think so. I don’t either. I don’t think it’s something you need to aspire to necessarily. No, no, just just sharing. Your parents will feel bad about that. Um, all right. So we’re at NTC, which a lot of people say we’re at intent. I had I had probably a dozen people e mail me ami it inten Yeah, I’m going to intern. I heard you going to Inten. I don’t bother to correct him. Do you know you could probably get one hundred times more than I do? Do you correct them, or do you just accept it? We don’t necessarily say. Oh, you said the wrong thing way. Just respond with Yes, we’LL see you at the NTC. You do that. You know I do the same thing, you know, in conversation or email. We do that. But on Monday and Tuesday, a lot of the work of whichever staff person was currently that we call it Social Media Captain, whoever’s the ones you know, staffing social media for that. Well, we do like, two hours at a time. Otherwise you get, you know, subject to the Internet. A lot of their work the couple days before the conference is replying to people that are using the wrong hashtag. Okay, then say it’s not in ten, nineteen, nineteen antisocial people. Do you know, Tio, they do every combination of N ten in the year and ntcdinosaur the year. Yeah, so Ah, lot of it is just so glad you’re excited. Please use the actual half way. Have these for a reason. Right? Okay, so we are at NTC, which is hosted by and ten. Correct. Okay, we’ve said that correctly. So I see the way I’m opposite the thie audience. Big center, stage, stage, office at the main stage. And I saw a right now it says gender neutral bathrooms, restrooms. But earlier, I always say bathroom too. And the other day, reward restrooms made that intentional kind of thought of. Well, you don’t take a bath. No, I know, but so a restroom is really just We’re not really resting either. Depending on what we all know, health is bringing the status of your health may not be resting either, but I do see two three four five two thousand three hundred forty five registrants so fast that yesterday’s lowercased eso still killer still. Yeah, I see. One thousand four hundred seventy four. First time registrants. Yeah, enormous it is. It’s higher than we usually have a way. Were chatting about it. All right. Wait. You have a nutrition problem, I think. Well, I think it is also important. Remember that this is the most attendings we’ve ever had. So it isn’t as surprising that there’s that, that there’s a significant bump in new folks because we’ve never been in Portland before. It has a proportion, but I’m just saying the NTC has never been important lit. So that’s a lot of folks who’ve never had the conference come to their area, even if it’s not Portland, you know, the larger region. And the last time the NTC was in the Pacific Northwest was Seattle in, like two thousand five. So ah lot, you know, the this the Washington, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Alaska what we consider the Pacific Northwest. Those five states haven’t had an NTC in a super long time. So I think there’s a lot more folks from the greater region that came out this year that have never come. Okay, Okay. Yeah, we’re also exciting that that many new folks where you come in great energy Yeah, yeah. Now are their stats on longest the greatest longevity and NTC scene that slide. Well, we don’t necessarily, you know, in the super early days, there wasn’t like a database that was trying to track it. So we don’t have. We don’t have the receipts from, you know, two thousand, two thousand one two thousand two. But we do track how many folks have hit the ten year mark, and I think that we have a slide. I think it’s like seventy six that are here. Have been to ten or more. Okay, that’s that’s a yes, I have to. You know it. Shout out ntcdinosaur and intend for the slide. I just saw that you were very It’s very friendly. I think there’s a breastfeeding in lactation room on, and it’s not often the corner. It’s right by the elevators. Prominent? Yes, you have a You have a meditation room and meditation and Ricky prayer room by room. Yes, so that you know, because this this can’t be cacophonous and right fast learning and oh, my God, I’m overwhelmed. How could I bring all this back and you need to settle right Then we have folks who feel like they have to miss an entire session block because they need to go back to their hotel to make sure that they can pray to certain time like No, Just come downstairs for those fifteen minutes and pray and go back to your session, you know? Yeah. Very, very welcoming way. Wanted to be level of all d ay, you’re inclusive. You welcoming. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for noticing those efforts. Yeah, I appreciate that. Because that takes time and money and stat. Yeah, of course. Of course. Um so Wei have three hundred sessions here. Nineteen. We’ve got one hundred eighty over three hundred speakers. Your speakers, because you got a lackluster host. I’m sorry, but it’s OK. I’m here to correct the facts. Yes. No, fake is okay, right? Please don’t. Okay, So three hundred speakers out of eighty session. Yeah, we’ve got a record here. Non-profit Radio thirty seven. Wow, They’re having interviews. That’s going to be a full schedule. It is. It is. Yeah, that’s awesome. Last year was twenty eight or thirty, Okay. Thirty seven thirty seven. Every session, every every session block shoutout to ash. Who by? By sending emails told speakers that he wouldn’t have been coordinating with. Yeah, he was. He was excellent. Great. Helped us get a record. Great. I don’t know. You’d have to You have to extend the conference for us to have it. Or, you know we’re not We’re not. How would you say? I guess we’re not sustainable, right? We’re not scaleable scaleable. Thank you. You’re correct. We’re not scaleable. We are sustainable. We’re not scaleable. Yes, you’LL have to expand the conference for us to get more than you or I don’t know. I don’t eat lunch. Don’t you don’t get a restroom break. Neither of which is sustainable, right? Crack or feasible? What else we got? Menus. Your food here is always very good. Always a gluten free gluten free options Vegan Kosher. Hello. Everything excellently taken care in there that cost money. It costs a lot of money across a gross amount of money. Kosher in law was a lot more than well, just bring out, you know, brings whatever you got. Yeah, fifty percent of our menu has to be gluten free and begin so that already costs a lot of use because they consider that specialty meals they do. Is that because of institutional policy at inten? Yeah, we just know that by doing that were also ensuring that there are other corollary allergies that are being taken care of and accommodates a lot more folks with that kind of level. Yeah, yeah, it’s time for a break Pursuant. The Art of First Impressions. How to combine Strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and how to make a smashing first impression. It’s at the listener landing page, of course. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to nineteen ntcdinosaur and in ten Tell us about the keynote speaker. Oh, Italy in Bombay, you don’t eat. Elina loved that Italy abila. Yes, please. She is incredible. She is, ah, community activist and technologist and on everything on. And we asked her to join us and share some of her experience interviews, specifically because of her work at the intersection of kind of traditional non-profit, work-life isn’t necessarily one campaign or one organizing effort, but you know, meant to be kind of sustained programs over time. And what does it look like to do that with folks who are only going to be engaged for one protest or one march or one campaign, one program? Maybe that maybe they will be inspired to join after that, but you’re not necessarily banking on that, right? So her experience and work at at those two intersections, all of it because of technology she has. I mean, she shared this morning, but also a lot of what she’s passionate about is making sure that everyone who works for social impact, whether you’re in a non-profit, you’re building your own activism, your community organizer in your community that you are ensuring you have tech skills because that is going to be what helps us win these fights, right? You have to be able to organize online. Teo, use the Internet to find information like all of those pieces, that it’s not some IT department in a sophisticated organisation, every single person working for change needs to invest in their own tech skills to be able to really organize and fight. Now, other days, lots of conferences would have multiple keynote speakers, right? You don’t do that. We don’t have one keynote speaker. Yes, and then the other s o tomorrow and Friday. You have the ignite session. Yeah, so tomorrow are ignites. There are six different people and they are all telling stories their stories are very different from each other. But all of their stories are about how we can use the Internet to change our communities, change our organizations, change the world. And on Friday we announce our three awards, the Antenna or the Lifetime Achievement Award, and the Robb Stark Memorial Ward. So Friday is brunch. We got a jazz band. There is even more food than we already provide on we’LL just announce those community words. Okay? Yeah. When do we get the announcement? About twenty. And tc, uh, twenty. They’re all up on the website. So in twenty twenty, we will be in Baltimore in twenty twenty are Sorry. Yes, twenty twenty ntcdinosaur, Baltimore twenty one and TC is in Pittsburgh and twenty two anti sees in Denver. Okay, Pittsburgh for months in college. Really? I don’t know that Carnegie Mellon. Oh, cool. I don’t know that I like Pittsburgh latto hyre life Pittsburgh to and especially when we’re talking about the non profit sector and the tech sector those to the intersection of them also those two have are really changing pittsburgh right now. Si mun pit with Nelson. Yeah, right. And the Russians have been so many drugs in the tech companies and start ups there. There’s non-profits who’ve been there for a hundred years. And there’s non-profits, who are just starting. You know, it’s a really vibrant city, so I’m excited to go there for the NTC. They’ve had a true revolution. That was That was steel, steel, steel manufacturing, right. Industrial city. Yeah. Back is Justus. Recent is like the seventies there would be Sometimes the street lights would have to come on in the middle of the day. So the guy gets the coal ash. Right? So that’s an off on output of steel manufacturing like that. I mean, it was it was a dirty durney manufacturing city, but that, you know, a part of the industrial Revolution, our industrial economy. Yeah. Yeah, then But now very high tech biotech, right. The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Huge. So huge in, in medical, medical tech, Andi, Also in some incredible museums and art organizations, they’re so yeah, really, I’m excited, but I’m also excited for Baltimore next year. You know, Baltimore has seen ah, lot of visibility and news. I think in ways that folks can believe things about Baltimore make generalizations about Baltimore that aren’t aren’t consistent with the lived experience of the community there, you know, and especially with intense focus on digital equity, there’s a lot of work in Baltimore right now to make sure people have access and are getting online are part of the Internet world. So I’m really excited for what we can dio in Baltimore and, you know, things we can lift up from the local community at the conference, which, you know, is part of what we’re always doing trying to make sure people are out in connecting and experiencing the city when they come to a conference. So yeah, yes. So So for so many years, you were wedded tio contracts that have been signed years ago and you were alternative, and they don’t exist anymore. Your This is your first year of freedom, isn’t it? From those two. New Orleans was our first was seventeen and DC was our last DC contract. Okay, Okay. I brought a piece of nostalgia and you gave me and I forgot to get it because I was so excited to get started. Could you bring me R? She’s off camera dancing around my laptop bag. Please. Please. There’s a bit of a well, so excited. It’s not too far back. Okay, So what else can we, uh What else You want to acquaint us with nineteen NTC? What? I mean, I’m I’m really excited for this year because we have a couple different kinds of sessions in the past. You know, we’ve always had ninety minute sessions and they could take different formats, panels or presentation. One day, seventy five, there were ninety. But now, this year, we’ve introduced tactical sessions, so these are intentionally short. They’re only thirty minutes long. They’re meant to just be, like, truly tactical. You know, these are five tools you can use to do X. You know, eso folks can use that as their time to just, you know, pick their new photo editor or there what? You know, whatever and get really specific advice about how do I do this thing in WordPress or whatever it might be? So the click candy of conference, right? Right. Third, and it’s quick. Right? Learn something fast in five hundred, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So we’re excited just to test that out this year and see how it goes. See what we can learn from that. How to make it better for next year. But I’m excited that we can have both of those. So it’s not always big, heavy, brain taxing topics. There’s also some that are like we just had lunch. I just want you to tell me what app to use, You know, for managing Twitter or something. And I want to go. Okay, So, yeah. Was that staff driven or community community idea? Yeah. Community folks have been asking for, you know, not a thirty minute session specifically, but they’ve been asking for other ways to get Mohr lighter way tactical content and wondering, You know, if you have a whole ninety minutes, we’ll you’re going tohave to cover like, here’s one hundred tools that you you know. And that’s not helpful, because now it’s overwhelmingly a long list. Eso We’ve heard that community feedback for a few years, and this was our our first attempt that howto make it happen. All right. Yeah. So what’s your nostalgia? I only sixteen. I brought the last print. Yeah, Print program guide in programme programme. Exactly. I have to say these were from the non-profit radio perspective. This is actually more convenient for me? Yeah, because I could have it out, you know, And I could go right to I had all the pages Dog eared for which session? Our interview next See there highlighted their starred It it was always there for me, so I would just like it’s like you’re conference here, but they would lay flat. Yeah. And then I could just pass this off to the person doing our postproduction. Heywood have all he It always was a guy. He would have the information that he needed, and I didn’t have to type it out, right? Were sent him to a site. Um, it was a lot easier for me, but see, instead I had a bottle. You know, we have a pdf version of the agenda that you can have that in print. I guess I could go on. All right. All right. I’m not sure, but I think this is a keeper. This is like the last er, Yeah, the last stapled Rolling Stone magazine, Right? Exactly. Exactly. Um, let’s talk about D I Okay. And as it relates to the conference in ten. Very conscious of diversity equity and inclusion aside. Well, you certainly mentioned prayer rooms. Very important. What else? What else? Folks should know that this is a very conscious, consciously designed conference. Sure. I mean, I guess there’s a few different layers we could talk about. One is the kind of surface experience layer where, yes, you could go to a prayer room. You can get pronoun ribbons. You can use a gender neutral restroom. Those kind of surface level things, the next layer down are things that only some people see and that is work we do with speakers. We give them communications and training ahead of time, orientation ahead of time. And then we give them essentially like reminder sheets in their room that remind them of, you know, not saying you guys not saying I t guy or, you know, whatever. What? What can be a common micro aggression as a speaker, you know, on ly calling on certain people. So we try and train them to be ready, act in a way that is consistent with how we want this conference to go on, and then the next layer down from that are things that folks probably don’t see at all, which are, you know, the policies and practices we have for picking and engaging vendors. You know, anyone that works with us has to commit to our policies. Has Teo participate in an open process? We invite certain folks to apply to be vendors, you know. So there are things that happen behind the scenes that also help create the accountability kind of a true beginning of that chain that we really want to be part of. We’re told every year by the convention center that we work with, that they have never had, which I can’t believe it’s true but whole different. They tell us different, convey that they’ve never had anybody say we will only be here if we can have gender neutral restrooms that we will only be here if you open up your process to hyre folks of color if you know. So when we put that out. Convention center staff say we’ve never been asked this before. We’ve never been asked to meet these expectations. We will, you know, let’s go work to do this. And some of the folks we worked with have said Now that you’re demanding this of us, I’m in a position to tell, you know the place I work. They need these standards. But I may need to work in this way, Graham. Right? Exactly. So then we can influence that process for other folk enforcing it through the organically right? On DH they’LL they’ll do it they’Ll They’re not only their consciousness raised, but they’Ll adopt policies. Um, right, organically right on DH for market for market driven purposes they want they want attract other conferences. Exactly. And they can now make Now, hold this out as an attribute, whereas before in ten game, right, they didn’t even But maybe they don’t even have consciousness. If they did, they didn’t happen on organizational was important when we’re talking about, you know, organisational institutional power and how to use that power. You know, it is in that way in negotiation, in contracting. But also, you know, we have in our policies that we will not hold any of our conference is in a state that has laws that discriminate. So when you know, a certain state says, hey, we really want you to come and we say Great, Will. You just introduced this bill. We will not come to your state. They you know we are not an organisation that, like has lobbyists and does that kind of work just have the money that you spent. But a convention center does. Right giant hotel chains dio eso when we tell them we will not come there. We will not give, you know, the Marriott or the Hilton or whoever any more money unless you go send your lobbyist to take down that bill from your state Congress. That’s also a form of institutional power that we want to be consciously wielding. Well, then, New York is open and North Carolina is out. Its true North Carolina’s out and Indiana’s out, he says. Well, um, my wife and I live in two different cities. If everybody knows that, you might have heard that from times. If you listen, a lot of you may have, you may have heard rumors to that effect. You’re an insider’s true if you’re in sector. Thank you. Wait. We have a couple minutes left. What’s what’s knew it knew it into Well, we’re hiring two positions right now for okay, so we’re hiring office and admin coordinator. So somebody that would be working with all staff on you know, all of the kind of admin processes like renewals and invoices and all of that kind of stuff. But then also working with the technology team on in office technology support, getting Teo learn how to manage a database. We’re We’re thinking of it as essentially our entry level tech job that we’ve never been able to create before, so that we are also building up new technologists who are probably not with a degree in technology or anything like that. And then we’re also hiring a membership and marketing director. That used to be your job. Yes, many, many years ago. Membership included marketing as well. It just wasn’t in the title right on DH. Someone left and created an opening. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And so we use that opportunity, you know, just to kind of really refine what they’ll dio. And we can talk more about this in coming months. But in later this year, in twenty nineteen, we’re going to roll out a new membership model. So they’ll also get to be part of the strategy and implementation of that. Of course, this is like a long time coming. Staff have been doing this work. It’s not we’re not going to get hired and make it up like we’ve already got it. But they’LL be part of how we message it and how we work with the community and that change. I’m a member. You are just mean. The place is going up. No, no, it’s not about that. It’s just the model around membership and and what it means to be a member. What you get is a member s So we will talk about that coming months. Yeah, remind me if I forget to ask. Okay, income share in coming months for sure. And so and let’s make it explicit. Thie, the ten office is in Portland. Yeah, this is where your baby This is our timeline at home. Yeah, the first time you ever said that. You said that before? Yes. And you. But of course, you do have virtual employees. We know that we know that from previous conversations. How many? How many here in Portland? We have eleven in Portland. When we have three that are remote. We’re hiring too, So we’LL see how that goes. Okay, so you’re going up to sixteen. You have sixteen staff. Does that sound right? Um love Oh, I’m messing on the math Wrong We’LL be at fifteen eleven threes fourteen Oh, yes. A ten, ten and ten and three plus two. Okay, Yeah. Okay. Um, we could leave it there or we could talk for another minute. So let’s talk for a minute. I don’t get to see you that often. Yeah, well, what’s So what’s new with non-profit radio, I would say the biggest thing in new on non-profit radio. Well, very exciting. The AC bilich sponsorship. Yeah, Sponsorship. ActBlue isn’t awesome. Yes, vendor partner in the sector. We appreciate that they are a good one to partner with you. You know, I would’ve told you if they were a bad one. You know that e I know you would’ve You would’ve looked out for me. Thank you. So that’s very exciting to have a kind of of prestigious partner on the other thing. Nuit non-profit radio would be the insider side of videos that are a little late on rolling out there. They’re having they’re gonna have them there on my phone, there in the zoom. There isn’t a cloud. Nice postproduction by me has not been not done yet, but yes, only insiders and get a little deeper. Dive. Ah, short short form five, five five six minutes. Video Deeper Dive with a guest. Then What about What about outside of non-profit radio? What other work stuff? We never talked about your works. We talked about my work study plan giving consulting? Yeah. Twenty nineteen to very, very Marquis names. I’m now consulting and playing giving for what is now Brady. How it used to be the Brady Center or the Brady campaign to prevent Gun violence right now. Just rebranding within the past few weeks. They rolled out there. Brady? Yeah. Thank you for doing work with them. And I am their plan giving council. Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Yeah. On DA. This is a very big year for them. Twenty fifth anniversary of the signing of the bill. Right? Fortieth anniversary of ah, they have another there. They have another anniversary to know. I didn’t know that I was a twenty fifth anniversary of the signing. The Brady Bill? Yeah, on the other theater, marquee name really is visiting their service of New York. Oh, cool. Huge agency? Yeah. Have fifteen thousand employees, right? Two billion dollars in revenue. Yeah, and written work. I am building their plan giving program as well. Oh, great landing. Yeah. Thank you for doing all of that. Does important work way. We never get to talk about it. We don’t because I don’t like, you know, like, what if I get to interview you one day? Let’s not get carried away. Wait, Let’s leave it there. And now it is time. I have to say goodbye. Okay? Having me, thank you for being a part of this fun. Three days. This is our fifth. Yeah, it’s not probably fifty NTC. Yeah, but I haven’t been to a session yet. Oh, my God. You look, you get your own version of the session with speakers here. Dio How many? I get thirty seven sessions. Right. Get the quick, get the short version. The thing. Get the thirty minute version of thirty seven sessions. Yeah, she’s Amy Sample Ward, CEO of and ten. And we’re in nineteen ninety Sea. She’s also the social media and technology contributor for non-profit radio. And this interview, like all our ntcdinosaur nineteen ninety si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thank you so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’ve got a free webinar coming up. It’s on April sixteenth. Tips and tricks for your nine ninety. The best part of this, I think, is the part that talks about increasing the PR value of your IRS. Form nine ninety using different sections, including Narrative for Marketing because you’re nine ninety is widely available. Guide Star, Charity Navigator, your own site and widely read by potential donors. Regular cps dot com Click seminars and then go to April. Now time for Tony Stick, too. Grieving is part of your plan giving program. I’m still grieving my father in law’s death early late late last week. Um, and it got me thinking in my sadness that there’s grieving as a part of your plan to giving program. And that is when relatives call you to tell you that someone who was a donor to your organization has died. They might be calling because the donor had you in their life insurance. Or maybe it was a charitable gift annuity. Whatever the reason, grieving people will contact you when, ah, when your plan giving donors die on. I’m I’m talking here about when family members contact you, not when it’s an attorney’s office. That’s that’s different there. They’re not grieving the way family members do. So I’m talking about the family members calling on DH. You need Teo Teo Treat this special and I talk about it in my video. I’ve got some tips there, you know, like making sure that you keep your promises. For instance, meet your deadlines. All the more reason to do that with someone who’s grieving and, ah, and needy and and not at their best by any means. So I’ve got some ideas on my video as it occurred to me as a ZAY was grieving and that the video is that tony martignetti dot com Now let’s go back. Let’s go to George Whiner and Strong Social ads on one hundred dollars a month. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety Sea. It’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference We’re sponsored by our partners. At Act blew all the interviews that nineteen ninety cr they have free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guest is George Whiner. He is co founder of Power poetry dot or GE George. Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on the show. Your topic is effective. Social media advertising on one hundred dollars a month. This is doable. Yeah. I mean, that’s why we titled the session that way. Why would we do it? Otherwise, you might Maybe you’ve ah, had sessions in the past that were not well enough. Attended. So you needed to kind of lead in. Well, the problem was, we originally started with ninety nine dollars. No one believed it. You know what that extra dollar made? All the difference. All the impact came in that last dollar. Very good. You have us your own podcast. What is that? What you give a shout out for your own? Well, we do appreciate the love the whole well dot com slash podcast is social impact tech talking about stories in the nonprofit world where people find that you can find that at a whale dot com slash podcast culwell whole whale dot com dot com slash podcast. Okay. No. And you’LL give a shout out to non-profit radio next time you’re in front of Mike. We absolutely will. Okay, we will. Hey, we could have a crossover episode cross over. That sounds intimate. I don’t know. It’s all right. We’Ll get there. We’re talking about our here. We could talk. We’re going to figure this out zoho old hands first. Um OK, so you say this is doable. I believe you. I believe you. That is the session topic. So identifying the best platforms. How do we How do we pick our best platforms for ah r o I of our our our small investment. Oh, my gosh. I feel like people playing at home should do the bingo card. Every time we say roo I the return on investment or K p I you can start to mark off the bingo cards. Choosing the right platform you’re right is saying, you know, where do we go to find the audiences that we want to resonate, that we want Teo to bring to our site or convert to action and just at a high level, you know, spoiler alert. Frankly, we’re starting with Facebook and Google. They’re very big, like we’ve heard revealing artefact. Yes, yes, you can Google to that effect. So it’s a good place to start because frankly, if you want Teo, go where the humans are there, there. And anyone who says the teens are not on Facebook anymore have forgotten that Facebook owns a little company called Instagram Whatsapp and continues to grow. So your audience is likely there. And so starting with those platforms is a eyes, a safe bet. Okay, now, I had someone on earlier today say that her advice is regarding Facebook, that you not use Facebook for fund-raising, but use it as a referral source back to your own site. Because the data around fund-raising isn’t shared by Facebook, which we that that seems that’s common knowledge. So Tio not sacrifice data beyond Facebook because billions of people are but use it to drive people to your own site for actual donations. Is that consistent with your advice? Yeah, these are various flavors, and and the funny thing about you’re going to say no. No, it’s not. Funny thing about Facebook is like tactics or temporary. I understand what you your core question was there is, like, follow the data. Am I getting the data? What is the value of that? Am I decreasing friction, However, by having a Facebook fund-raising button. By the way, we’ve had organizations that turned on the Facebook fund-raising button and with no other activity whatsoever, literally just cash checks for tens of thousands of dollars. So it would be an error to, say, Ignore this, reduce friction. However, if you are driving a campaign, if you are creating messaging by all means, send them to a owned platform by own platform. I mean, you get the money and you get the data because, by the way, like you mentioned, if you can’t follow up with that one hundred or five hundred dollars donor, you are losing out on the lifetime customer value, which can be estimated at roughly three ex initial investment. Well, like that’s that three three times mission. So if you look at if you look at selling widgets, right, three to five acts is what if we were selling e commerce like you’re selling blankets or glasses, that user comes on and now they’re modeling in general, they look at that. You can also look at sort of em in our benchmarks, knowing that you’re only going to keep, you know, one out of four thereabouts or one out of five thereabouts of that first time investor. But you kept them. He kept that donor so retention Israel. And it’s probably a lot less on Facebook. Okay, amend our M in our bench market report. What is that? Men are It is Ah, you know, quickly. Ah, it’s ah organization that does a lot of consulting, but also a very well known benchmarking. Reports of the M in our benchmarks come out they, like, analyzed about two thousand on profits pull together a tidy little report. I’m not familiar with it. And our non-profit radio, We have jargon jail. I went to Dragon chaillou. You’re in, you’re in. But it’s easy. It’s easy to get out. Probation is plus Now I should say parole parole is widely available. Um, okay, that was Facebook. So Google, you wanted to be taking advantage of the Google advance? Well, before we were all away from Facebook, there is more Facebook. So we’re talking about a hundred dollars like the last thing I feel like most people want to dio is give Mark Zuckerberg another dollar and I like pause there, and it kind of kills me that I’m like at a non-profit conference saying Hey, you know, needs like another overpriced hoody, That gentleman. Now I’m gonna pause again and say Facebook is not a social media platform. Stop the podcast. Replay that Facebook, if you are a business, is not a social media platform. It is an ad platform. If you think it is a social media platform and if you think it’s free, you are incorrect. Every minute your social media team spends on creating the perfect post the right picture putting it up on every Tuesday at three PM you have spent time. Time is money. You were already e-giving value toe a platform that, by the way, reduces through the drank, reduces the amount of people seeing your post on your platform. So by not paying you were actually losing money. Reduces the number of people flush this out for me. Sure. So let’s say you have forty thousand people on your Facebook page which power poetry does in twenty fifteen. That was awesome. We made a post and of that audience, ten to twenty percent potentially hyre. If we did our job right would see that post that’s tons of impressions, tons of traffic. Today, that number is well under five percent and decreasing, meaning every post doesn’t go to every person the same way that if I had an email list of forty thousand people, we actually get analytics. It ends up in their inbox. Is if I send a text message, We know that it’s arriving. There is not the same way on Facebook and thinking that is an error. Okay, So if you are a business, do not be thinking of Facebook as a social media. It is an add plastic. It’s a A. All right, How are we gonna y How do we wisely spend one hundred dollars? All right, let’s get to the hundred dollars and paying attention to what we want out of Facebook. You mentioned accurately. Before that, maybe we want donations. We’LL precursor to donations are emails, relationships, relationships built over time, you’ve had many guests that talk about nurturing those relationships. Now you can spend anywhere from you know, we’ve seen numbers at fifty cents to two dollars to get relevant emails, registrants people on your newsletter that you can a nurture a relationship over the next nine months and get that donation. By all means. You can also go right for the hard. Ask the will you marry me on the spot? Type of like give me money. However, it makes more sense to overtime buildup. That list and Facebook has an ad platform is frankly creepy and fantastic. You, Khun Target any subset a person you can look and create lookalike audiences from your existing email list. Your existing donors You, Khun target people that are friends of your existing donors. The amount thie amount of targeting and options, uh, is daunting. However, if you focus on what you’re after, For example, the emails that lead two dollars you confined value confined are why there The same way that a company selling sweatshirts online does you can sell the opportunity to get to your organization. Okay. Okay, um more you want to say about Facebook before we, uh oh. I don’t think I could rant and on and on, and I really No, no, I I’m excited. I I I couldn’t let that topic go away and tio my big thing this year. Tony, My big thing is making sure that I say the words Facebook is not a social media platform. If you are a business, it is *** platform and P s Instagram is next. Oh, yeah, Yes. Got to take a break. Tell us you were in fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their card transactions with Tello’s we’re talking debit credit card transactions. The small fees add up, you get half of them and that’s what makes your long tail of passive revenue their video explaining it all is on the listener landing page at Tony dahna em a slash Tony, tell us you watch it, then have the cos you’re thinking about referring Watch it and then make your ask. Would they make the switch to tell us for a long stream of passive revenue for your non-profit? Durney dahna may slash Tony Tell us, Let’s do the live listener love. It’s gotta happen. Uh, we are pre recorded this week, but the live love goes out nonetheless. You know that the live love is not mitigated or dampened or hampered or hindered or minimized Ah, or trivialized by any means or any of those synonyms that you could think of. So if you’re listening live, the love goes out to you. And if you’re listening by podcast, the pleasantries goes out, go out to you. Try to keep the noun and verb agreement in sentences. It’s what? The storm. That’s why that’s why I’m aspiring to. So the pleasantries go out to the podcast audience to our over thirteen thousand listeners. Thank you for being in our podcast audience now back to George Whiner. But I want to turn. I want to turn over to Google because Google’s awesome. You mentioned the So You want two more months? Yeah, great. You want to see us focusing on add grants or you got something else because we have a couple of guests already talking about at all right, So you know, I grant you, Let’s talk about your God, the actual dollars that we can apply to Google. Google. Another fantastic at platform Add grants are an incredible gift. That said, there’s been some updates that put handcuffs on the grant, namely, you are now. If you were in the ad grant as of right now talking in twenty nineteen, do you want you? Only your ads only hit remnant inventory, so that means the people that are paying go first, and once they have maxed out those positions you are then given access to remnant Inventory, which is still awesome. Still drives traffic, however, if in your ad grant and this is your homework. If in your aggregate you realize there are certain words that literally print money, traffic users, emails, whatever it is, throw fifty bucks at it. Say, Hey, we’re gonna actually pay to show up in the prime position at the prime hour for conversion rate and let’s pay for and see what happens. Look, if you could turn one dollar into two dollars, do that. And by the way, if you’re dealing with, say, puppy adoption and your local community and you realize that like nine p. M. On a Thursday is like puppy a clock and you realize that that’s when people are looking, spend the time. Get those people onto your site when they’re in that buying frame because you don’t have that level of control with ag grants. Its a little bit more distributed, and you’re sort of second in line. Your second. Alright, alright, but so now if you if you do test this and it does well, you’re you’re encouraging organises orders too. Spend spend money to get the higher rank and not just get the remnant inventory. If this test goes well, invest more in it. Even though you have the Google at Grand, even though you have the Gula grant, the Agron is wonderful for testing ground for paying attention to what’s working across many different areas could get ten thousand dollars, use it or lose it a month. But if there is something again that is of high value, you know, take, you know, take off the hat of like, Oh, we’re getting for free. Why would we pay for it? Because you will get better positioning as you mentioned, better priority of time and placement. And you know what? I’m talking about one hundred dollars a month and I’m doing that. I’m not saying spend twelve hundred dollars all at once. I really want people to think about this as drumbeat advertising not to campaign advertising, not one and done. Because we just don’t learn. Because by the way, you Khun spend twelve hundred dollars in one day and learn absolutely nothing on either of these platforms. Okay. Okay, um, targeting the audience going, Can we switch the audiences durney instead of platforms? Khun, we’re speaking audiences were latto audiences. We are We’re speaking tio, not radio, since both insiders and casual visitors How do we? Uh, well, let’s let’s go back to Facebook. As you said, it’s It’s, uh, what would you say? Fantastic and creepy at the same time? Yeah, Useful, angry. Be peaceful, Creepy. How do we How do we start to target the right the right right audiences on Facebook. So when you’re talking about your audience, you know, think about it more abstractly first, and we can talk about the, you know, brand personas that you imagine. And if created with your your various marketing firms or internal, you know, your internal activities, you know who does our message resonate? Who do we want to resonate with Now we can think about it from the perspective of you know, you’re probably thinking immediately because you’re in the nonprofit sector. How do we get more money? How do we get more donors? However, there’s some organizations, for instance, that are interested in shaping the hearts and minds of let’s say, college students around a certain topic. Call it I don’t know reproductive rights, or let’s say you’re interested in shaping how government officials in a certain area are thinking about the importance of water rights. These are all opportunities to make sure your message shows up in front of that audience because you can have, for instance, a thirty second p ece a bit of awareness and you can actually have a targeted audience. Let’s say I wanted to find all of the college is in all the colleges in California and say, You know what I think is important that you make sure that women feel safe and have an ability to report acts of sexual violence. And here’s thirty seconds on why that’s important. I could then set up a campaign that makes sure that every single dean and above or staff member has seen that at about seven times and roughly for at least ten seconds. What is the value of that level of awareness in that level of targeting? Now? It’s enormous. That is so easy to do on the platform, and that’s just the start of it. We can use the Facebook pixel on your site, which also delivers analytics, but we can use that pickle to retarget. We’ve heard this term before. I don’t want to end up deeper in jargon. Jail retarget just means Hey, there are people that stop by this booth. Now, after two weeks have gone by, I can send an ad in front of them disproved being a metaphor for your Web site. I could send an ad that follows them across instagram Facebook and say, Hey, way know that you were here. He’d probably want to say that, but come back and watch the show and we could do this for one hundred dollars with one hundred dollars. All of this is yours. Retargeting. All right, where do we find these tools on on Facebook? So, fortunately, and unfortunately, Facebook makes it very clear that you should be advertising. And it starts at business, not facebook dot com. So it business dot facebook dot com They’re going to be showing you how to spend money. The thing that grinds my gears actually about the advertising is that most people would have answered that with well inside of your Facebook page, and you go into your posts. And when you’re in the admin view, there’s a little button that says Boost Post that is the biggest rip off on the platform, and I won’t like it. Go too far down this rant. But that is a waste of money ninety five percent of the time because it’s only targeting to your existing audience. It’s also just taking a random message that you happen to post and selling. You reach selling you likes when you could have taken that ten hundred, however many dollars back and look at how much you’re spending on post when you could’ve taken that and done something is fistic ated, as I just mentioned before, turn that into say, Hey, we know that for fifty cents we confined emails of people working at colleges. We can targets so much better than that. So instead of the simple minded and easy instead of the boost post, you need to be going to a business that facebook dot com correct. And you need to set up an ad account. You need to think about the audience. You need to think about the message, how that will resonate and drive toward the outcomes that are going to move your organization forward. Okay, okay. Who’s post? Everybody does that. Everybody does that. You’re a troublemaker. I like causing trouble like No, no, no. When I when I see the tide going the wrong way. But I think when you see this, I going well, yeah, I absolutely agree. Never, never do something because lots of other orders they’re doing it because there’s a lot of crappy practice out there. So the sole reason for doing something should certainly not be Lots of other organizations are doing it. You know, I would like to do, you know, just like a moment of empathy, saying that look when it started, boost Post was actually a decent tactic, and then it became woefully inefficient. Tactics expire, and unfortunately, in our technological landscape at present, they expire faster than ever. And so you’re learning something that’s two years old, and you’re like, That’s still good because the half life of knowledge just dropped off a cliff. And we have many, you know, talented marketers with great instincts that aren’t able to refresh on every single nuance of what’s going on on this platform. So shows like this our helpful conversations like this are helpful, and TC is helpful because we have a chance to be like, Hey, everybody, I found this thing. Don’t do it or do it. What you doing? It powered poetry dot or ge? So what about Yeah, You know, I feel like I have this split split life here. Power poetry dot organs the largest teen poetry platform in the country with roughly four hundred thousand monthly active users on it, creating a safe, creative platform and free, by the way, for young people to share their work. And so they share their work. We have, ah, funny machine learning algorithm that tells them what’s similarity. They are two poets and rap artists, and they learn more. They learn more about their work. And we tricked them into writing more poetry, which is a fantastic literacy and emotional expression. Tools. So that is a co founder there. It’s an incredible organization. We’re always looking for partners. If you have a pulse, will partner with you. Uh and then on the whole whale side, I’m I’m the founder of a whale. A digital impact agency, that there’s an agency behind the podcast. Yeah, Okay, okay. Digital marketing agency culwell digital marketing and also way offer educational tools for non-profits as well through our site. Time for our last break text to give diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving. It is not only for disasters. It is not only for small dollar donations. It does not have to be small. You can build relationships by text. You’re doing it all the time with family and friends. You could do it with your donors. Khun, learn how? By texting NPR to four four four nine nine nine NPR four four four nine nine nine. We’ve got several more minutes for strong social ads on one hundred bucks a month. We still got some time left together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got another seven minutes or so. So, uh, what else? What else did you promise, Teo to those who attend your session, plan a campaign from targeting to messaging to measuring, Measuring? Let’s talk about some measurements. Thank goodness. Because if you didn’t mention it, I was going to mention it. If you don’t measure it, it won’t get better. We’ve heard this statement before, but especially true with ads coming back to why it’s a hundred dollars a month and not throw it away in twelve hundred dollar bonfire on a Tuesday is because it gives us the opportunity to measure What we’re looking for are the signals that those dollars are turning into emails turning into valuable traffic or the outcomes that way seek the she’s. The analytics available on Facebook are fantastic, and it seems you’re spending money. You’re getting so much more than you used to when you bought a billboard or on ad and the, you know, fill in the blank paper. Which is a different problem, however, were getting and looking for things like cost per acquisition. That just means how much money did I have to spend for that email or that click or that engagement? So I want to be paying attention that I’m also using Google Analytics, Google Analytics, a free tool code, every single page of your sight. That thing gives you insights into the source of traffic behavior of the traffic and how people are using your site. And so you want to look at both of those, especially as you’re you’re advertising across platforms, saying, All right, I’ve set up a goal, have configured it, saying, Hey, Google analytics, you know what’s awesome when somebody donates, you know, it’s also awesome when somebody gives us an email set those up his goals so we can see the source of traffic. Did they come through an ad and then sign up or convert, as we call it? Convert toward one of those outcomes. We can analyze that we can create reports, but those of the metrics that we’re looking for things like conversion rate are great things like that. As I mentioned before, cost per acquisition and knowing that for your audience of our great flush out the conversion rate just in case listeners not not familiar with that hundred people come to your website and you happen to know that two of them happened or Ted say ten of them just to make our math easy. Suddenly we have a ten percent conversion rate. If ten of those people signed up for your e mail list, that means, Hey, we may want to pay attention to that more than something that’s a cent traffic to your site and only one out of one hundred one percent ended up converting anything more on measurement seem to be pretty pretty passionate about it before, before I open it up to general topics. What love general traffics. However, get there, we’LL get there on measurement. What’s happening right now is we have a wealth wealth of numbers being thrown out of us and data data burdens. Yeah, we’re sort of drowning in it, which means the signal to noise becomes harder to track. And so coming back to just plain old common sense is a real asset. And I like to think of it as our acquisitions. Perfect example. How much did it cost me to get that even? Unfortunately, also thrown numbers like reach and things like, how much, uh, reach of your friend’s interactions frequency. There there are more numbers than you know you care to mention so paying attention, tune. But what are your goals? What do you want? You want an email? You want a dollar? What? Don’t I get that? But you can get distracted, and sometimes it’s fine to go on those sort of data dives and be like, I have a crazy question. I’m gonna go find the answer. However, if you’re driving down the road, I don’t need to know the reach of that Twitter post. I need to know how fast I’m going. So miles per hour. How much gas I haven’t tank and That’s the reason when you look at your car dashboard, it’s not telling you how many followers you’re freaking car has. It’s telling you what you need to know when you need to know it, and it’s giving you information. As you know, one common tip is when you look at the next dash border number in your team has handed you, Ah, ask them. Nice. But so what? What is the Delta? What is the difference of this versus the time period prior or this time last year? Because if I give you a number, Tony seven. Are you happy or sad right now? Number used to before compared to what they used to before, the higher the better. All great, but we don’t know that xero depends what you’re asking. So ask what the delta is. Make sure your dashboards have that delta with relevant time frame, so at least know whether or not to be happy or sad about the number. Okay. George weinger. Um, we got another minute and a half or so. Maybe two minutes. If I If I feel generous, What did I not ask you? What would you like to talk about? Around this one hundred dollars advertising spree. I think it’s hard, Tio, when we approach this from a scarcity mindset when we think we don’t have the money, good scribe mindset, even a hundred dollars a month, you’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s so much hope that finds that doesn’t go doesn’t reach that low. But if you are, I mean, there’s some people listening to this being like Hey, that’s a lot. And you know what? The hope is that after six months of this, that hundred dollars is actually turning into more money for you, and you’re sort of hinting at it before. By the way, if something’s working, if you’re turning one dollars into two dollars, you should do more of that. I would take that bet very often. And so one piece, you know, whenever this may come out. But during cue for especially may be a good time to turn on some of that retargeting we talked about and saying, Hey, you know what anybody that has come to our site in the past year? Or maybe he’s even on our donor list. Let’s just remind them with a sort of at least four impression thirty second video, meaning that we’re looking for a frequency of four. Hit him four times. Say, Hey, we’re still here and we’re doing our one time appeal. That is the one time a year where I’m saying it’s okay to ask for the donation because it is more top of mind. You do that overlapping around giving Tuesday you set your monthly budget. We’ve seen those types of budgets return on investment, assuming that you’ve been doing your homework over the year, assuming that you’ve been building in a list of anything that you were going to hear it again and again from guests on your podcast about building that relationship. And that’s a little extra already a little extra boost at the final stretch of the year for you. Okay, George, is this podcast have been around since two thousand ten, so I’ve heard about relationship building a few times. How long? What’s the longevity? Of course, longevity is advantaged. Vanity metric. I could have twelve listeners have been doing this since July two thousand ten. How long is a whole whale been around? We were founded in twenty ten, so we’ve been around a little while, and I don’t think about anybody but the twenty fourteen, so I respect anyone who can hang on for for a while. You know, it’s it takes a lot of energy and persistence. Teo do the hard things over time. I’ve heard rumors to that effect. Yes, I’ve been to thank you very much. I’ve been told he’s George Whiner cofounder, Power Poetry dot or GE and you’re with twenty. Uh, what are you with your? With the nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference, the non-profit radio coverage thereof. And along with all our nineteen and TC interviews, this one is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profit to make an impact seethe swag on the desk, which is a water bottle for for listeners who don’t have the the luxury of the video. And you also see it on my chest on my T shirt. Well, it’s on a teacher, not literally. It’s a tattoo. It’s not that he tattooed it. George Whiner. I already I already I already backed you up, so let’s let’s leave it there on this is Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si, thank you so much for being with Me and George Whiner. Next week be accessible and go bilingual both from nineteen ninety. See if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com Responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits Data Driven and technology enabled Tony dahna may slash pursuing capital P by witness CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Telus Credit card and payment Processing Your Passive Revenue Stream Tony dahna may slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer show Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein You with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 1, 2019: Successful Run/Walks & #19NTC

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, Molly Sullivan at Fordham University here in New York. She was sharing the show with her colleagues and accidentally sent it to me. We love listener sharing. So thank you very much, Molly, for doing that, even if you have to share with the host. I love sharing. So share with me all the time, but thank you for trying to get it out to your colleagues. Hope you hope you got that Taken care of. Thanks for sharing Molly. And congratulations on being our Listener of the week. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with forma cation if you made my skin crawl with the idea that you missed today’s show. Successful Run Walks Emily Parks, Melcher Productivity Consulting with run walks to give you her best tips that will make your sporting events winners. She’s founder of Organized for Success and nineteen NTC twenty nineteen Non-profit Technology conference is March thirteen to fifteen in Portland, Oregon. I’ll be there. Amy Sample Ward are social, media and technology contributor, CEO of N ten and a Portland ER, shares. Why you need to be there. Here’s a hint. You can hear this right now, so you’re use technology durney steak, too insider responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing, but Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com Bye. Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine. Pleased to welcome Emily Parks to Non-profit radio, she’s an award winning productivity consultant who founded Organized for Success in two thousand seven, using tips using tips garnered from her years as a small business owner and productivity consultant. Emily has more than doubled income generated by the lunge Forward, five k run, walk and rally that she directs for the Lung Cancer Initiative of North Carolina. She’s at or GE the number four success, and her company is organized. The word for success dot biz. We’ll have to show Emily Parks thank you so much for having me today. It’s a pleasure to be joining you. Thanks. You calling in from Raleigh, North Carolina, Are you? Yes, I am. Okay. You know, my heart is in North Carolina often. Yeah, cause I own my own two homes there once. Ones like, only an hour away from you in Pinehurst. Yes. And as a beautiful town. Yeah, it is. It’s nice. There. Rallies. Lovely. I love Raleigh. Absolutely. A little bit of everything in rally. A lot of college students Do I like that? Yeah. So let’s talk about our successful run walks to get started. You like to see a comprehensive checklist? Well, my experience working with entrepreneur small business owners, non-profit managers, frontline employees, every human being has reinforced the research that our brains are meant for thinking whether that strategic or creative. But they’re not meant for remembering things. And so when we’re putting together any sort of an event, but particularly a charity, run or walk, there are so many things to be remembered, and I find that capturing those is a great way to make sure number one, nothing falls through the cracks, but also, we can actually a sign a deadline for each of the items in the checklist. We can make sure that it it flows more seamlessly from conception that to the event day, and that we’re able to actually check them off the list. But there’s definitely a sense of accomplishment and empowerment where you’re checking things off the list. Yeah, I was like that when I can scratch something off a list. But so So if I forget, uh, my wife’s birthday, I could just say My brain is not made for remembering. So layoff, Is that true? Well, there is this little thing called technology that can help you with reminders and things like that so we can use the tools around us. But yes, actually, when so numbers were first created, they were given four digits. Because all the psychological research shows that we’re not able within our brains to capture more than four things at a time. And you’ll notice when when children or adults go through I Q testing and they give you the items that you need to remember and then they do something else and they come back and they ask you for those items. They only ask you for three or four different things in that list. And that’s because our brains are just not meant for remembering those things. Okay, now, when I was in when I was in college, I took some psychology courses, and it was cognitive psychology. One of the things we learned. Maybe this is Maybe this is outdated now, because this was nineteen eighty, Something, um was that the brain could remember. It was it was seven plus or minus two chunks. Does this sound familiar to you, or it does So bizarre is that learning so on a chunk is not necessarily a digit. I mean, you could put if you were, If you trained yourself, you could put six or seven or eight digits in a chunk. And then you can remember seven plus or minus two chunks of somewhere between five and nine chunks, you know, but you have to train yourself. You can’t do that right out of the gate. That is that. Is that antiquated research that I just wasted people’s times listening to? No. But there is a caveat to that. There’s the emphasis on number one training yourself, but number two, using tools to connect those items together. So a lot of times you’ll hear people talking about a list of items or shopping list or something, and they create a story that ties the different items together. So you’re more inclined to remember closer to that seven to nine range, then the four to six range. If you’re doing something with your brain to make those words matter, or there’s numbers matter or they’re more meaningful. Yeah, okay. You got do some exercises with them or something. Yeah, part of the part of the final exam in that course, the Professor Red things off. And I think you know how to have pens down or something. Your hands up in the air or something. And then And then after he read off a series of whatever they were, you had to write down as many of them as you could remember. That was, uh that was interesting. Exam. All right, Durney. How’d you do on the exam? Oh, no. I’m more like seven. I’m more like one plus or minus two chunks. My, my So so I grasp on when you say our brains are not made for remembering, I grab onto that so that will sustain me for another ten or twelve years. Well, in another thing, not only that our brains are not meant for remembering, but they’re meant for thinking is also that our our brains don’t grass someday. So one of the other reasons that I like a checklist is because of those deadlines that I mentioned. If we have associative deadlines with our checklist items, then it’s not floating out there as a wish. It becomes a goal and something that we contain. Gia ble attain. I don’t know about you, Tony, but I have yet to dahna calendar that has some day on it. So when I say that I’ll get to that someday, it usually just keeps falling down the list further and further and never actually gets accomplished. And when you’re planning a walker run, that charity is depending on the action’s getting completed in a timely manner and deadlines pair nicely with that. I admire how, how deftly you segregate us back to the topic. We’re supposed to be talking about an off the topic that I digressed, too, which was a seven plus or minus two chunks in the psychology class and everything else. So that was very well done. We’ve got to take our first break pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. Do you need more donors? This resource is all about donor-centric guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. Plus how to identify your unique value and use it to advantage, plus creative tips. It’s all about making an excellent first impression for Donorsearch acquisition. You’ll find this at Tony dahna slash pursuant Capital P for, please. Always for that listener landing page. Now, let’s go back to successful run walks. All right, Emily. Eso brava. Well done, Segway ing us back to the topic that you got tired of talking about That I made you digress to That was never tired of talking about psychology. But I do know that I want to be able to give your listeners as much value as we possibly can. Yes. And if you, uh, worthless host digressions as possible, that’s that’s the natural conclusion From what you just said. I understand their kayman value is always Well, it better be. I just got some value to this. Okay, so what’s our next step? You You tell me what you want to talk about after after having that critical checklist, How about teamwork? No, I don’t want that. I don’t like that one. Now go ahead. Of course, Steven, do it. Well, I the quotes that come to mind when I’m thinking of planning charity walks and runs are in love as faras. You know, if you want to go quickly, go by yourself. If you want to go for go with a group or together everyone achieves Mawr. I mean, there’s there’s countless Mantra tze with which a lead our organizational group. But having a committee might be the most important element for the success of both the event, the growth of the fund-raising and the overall mission driven element of any charity organization committee’s Okay, we don’t want a committee too big. I mean, of course, right? I mean, this is a run walk, so of course it can’t be handled by one person, so absolutely I’m not not debating that. But you get too much committee. Andi, you get more, get more committee. I don’t know stagnation. Then you do productivity out of a committee. Absolutely. You want to make sure that you have enough people in the room said that each of the necessary rolls is fulfilled. But you want to make sure that you don’t have so many that it slows down the decision making process or that anyone on the committee doesn’t feel like they’re truly contributing. People want to make an impact. People want to help your non-profits vision and mission come to fulfillment, but if they’re just filling up space and coming for a free meal, they’re going to feel less fulfilled in the process. So I find making sure that the committee includes a volunteer coordinator, a team captain, coordinator, an exhibitor coordinator or host for those vendors that will be at the event a media contacts and then particularly someone to oversee the food and beverage element of your event. Those air really integral roles that helped the committee divide and conquer on the necessary functionality but also empower all those team members. Because if you’ve got a planning team that has the the right people in the right roles, then everybody excels because they’re all ableto bring ideas and energy and their network for bigger and better results. I’m in Italian, so I gravitated to the food and beverage section. What if we’re thinking about doing a run walk you know, we don’t do these annually with planning one first. One. What kinds of what kinds of foods and beverages should you provide to your your runners and walkers? The answer to that, Tony actually depends on what type of event you’re trying to have. I find it. The charity event that I oversee for our Greensboro Lunge forward here in North Carolina is part of a run, Siri. So there are running events all throughout the year, and participants that do at least five of those in the Siri’s get X surprising. So been to many throughout the series, and there’s different feelings at different events throughout the year. Some of them really focus on making sure there’s enough doughnuts and bagels and sausage biscuits or bananas or oranges for free race snacking and then refueling as soon as you’re done with the rich. There are others like ours, where we do have those items beforehand, particularly the bagels, the doughnuts, the bananas, oranges. You know, those high energy fuelling foods. But we also partner with a local restaurant in brewery in the area to be ableto have brought and beer now talking. Now, now breathe here for everyone that participates in the five K is always an exciting draw for any runner. And I’ve decided that if you run a five K, you’ve earned your free beer afterward. Can I just show up in shorts and a T shirt and just crash and forget the five k part? And just just I’ll do the walk from my car to the beer stand. Well, how about you registers a participant to the five K, but she just sort of hide in the background during the running part, and then you get your beard the alright? Exactly. Yeah, right. Right. I mean, you still get the teacher about trying to skirt the system, but I don’t want to cheat the charity, so I mean, I’ll donate, you know, I’ll donate to the charity too, but you’re in Brant’s. That xero okay. So a little some comfort food for afterwards, if But you know. But I hear you too. And you know, it depends on what part of the country you’re in. It depends on what your mission is. Beer and brats may not work for the American Heart Association. Well, the beer could mean that that alcohol is hard healthy too, in moderation I don’t know about. Maybe they read washing. Yeah, Yeah or yeah. That’s a myth, though. You know what? That’s the red wine producers all, however all alcohol? Yes. All alcohol again in moderation. The two ounces to three ounces or two to four ounces a day or something. Has the has the heart healthy benefits. But the red wine industry jumped on that when it first came out and said, You know, red wine is the is the source. You get the same heart healthy benefits from white wine or other other alcohol spirits. Trust me. Just you have to just trust me on that. That’s great. That marked the price of admission. Jellicle, my limoncello Limoncello, not lemon Jell O, please, Limoncello. What else do I like? Bailey’s? Yes. You get the get the advantage from all those different alcohol types. Not on ly red wine. OK, another worthless host aggression. I’m sorry. I don’t know why you come on the show. I would if I were you. I’d hang up because the hostess who keeps dragging you into places there only I think the lesson about alcohol. That’s a pretty good lesson learned All right. It’s true. Um, especially skillsets wear Red day today. Always today. Where? A day for what? Yeah, for the American heart is American heart miss that one. All right. Okay. Uh, while I’m in New York somewhere and gray and black, that’s that’s That’s the de rigueur colors here. All right, So what’s next? We gotta have some captains coordinators on the committee, right? Absolutely. So, talking about this, members of the committee that touched on the volunteer coordinator was the team captain coordinator. And I find that that team captain coordinator is an integral part for the growth of any run wall. Because if you’re using your committee and your media contacts and your email messages that go out your social media marketing to touch on each individual directly from the organization, you’re not gonna have the breadth and depth of reach that if you have a team captain coordinator who is the point person for energizing all of your team captains, then it gives the team captains the fuel to go out and work with their network and make those personal place to grow their network. And thereby you have this whole army of individuals that are out getting people excited and energized and signed up and making donations and asking their friends and family and neighbors and colleagues to come and join them. Research shows that we need to hear about something at least five to seven times before we want to learn about it. So if you’ve got your marketing messages going out, but then you also have Team Captain’s asking for help e-giving personal invites to their contacts. Then you reach that five to seven threshold faster, and you get more people to go to the website, learn more about the event and sign up, make known ations and truly take action. Okay. And then, of course, there’s technology that can help us to. It’s enlarge our network as well. Absolutely. I’m a firm believer that a combination of message sitting so email, marketing, multiple platforms of social media if you if you were non-profit, is the size of a mid having a text messaging element, that’s a huge way to get people while they’re on the go. You can also make sure that you’ve got calls going out. Our team captain coordinator does a great job to make calls to the team captains and then the team captains. Often Tom’s will call people on there on their teens, so it’s sort of that domino effect and also another coordinators that we touched on earlier. The volunteer coordinator and Exhibitor Coordinator. Um, you could also have a sponsorship coordinator, but those air all people to get other organisations involved. So your sponsor coordinator is getting people to donate money as sponsors. Your exhibitor Coordinator is getting organizations, businesses, community partners, tohave table tops at the event. And your volunteer coordinator is working with Universities High School’s key club, all different types of volunteer outlet to get more people there on the premises. Most events I’ve seen need anywhere from one hundred two hundred volunteers for a walker run. And you want to make sure that you have those bodies so that things run seamlessly throughout? Okay, wait. If you’re talking a minimum of one hundred volunteers, that’s a that’s a huge event. Yes. You know, you’re talking about So what size hominy, run runners. Walkers? Do you have just wait? We average between five hundred eight hundred participants, but we have a cz many as twelve hundred event. Okay. Okay. One factor we want to make sure we consider again. I imagine this is most valuable for people who haven’t done this much or at all. We need to make provisions for the folks who aren’t able to run or walk, but they’re going. They’re going to participate in a wheelchair or, ah, bike. So it’s one of the I don’t know what those bikes are called, but they’re they’re not your average bike, but you know, people who want to participate or need to participate, other than running and walking two, two elements to that number one, every walk run is responsible for partnering with the city in which they host their event to make sure that there’s adequate police coverage. One of the main functionalities of those police officers is to make sure that whenever that walk run participant goes through an intersection there protected from oncoming traffic. And so part of that is, Is your course flat? Or are you educating potential participants about where the hills are so that they can plan accordingly? Part of it is making sure that the police are aware when there are participants that needs special consideration, like those in a wheelchair or those that may be walking with a walker or things like that. We have also partnered with local organizations that they have runners that put some of our lung cancer survivors into these. They’re there kind of like they’re like, adult stroller type things. But they have three wheels and then the two handles on the back so that the runners can push the survivors that are unable to make it through the five k or the one k distance so that they’re able to participate in the festivities, right? Sure. Okay. Okay. Very good. And but making sure also, one of the most important things to add to your checklist as you are somebody doing a walker run is to make sure that you have first aid coverage. And for us, that has been a an organization with city where they have first aid medical medic who are on the bicycle. But it depends on where you are located and what resources are available in your city or town. But make sure that you’ve got first aid covers. Okay? Excellent admonition. Thank you. And then. So if we have this overall logistical checklist, there’s got to be sub checklists for probably each of these committees, or write each of these discreet activities were talking about. They need their own checklist with timeline and deadline absolutely going back to that part about needing to hear about something thought to seven times before acting on it. A checklist for marketing messaging that incorporates multiple different emails, multiple different social media campaigns, multiple different mentions that other events that people might be coming tio or calendar listings and things like that is huge. So a checklist for your marketing efforts is important that could in-kind clued media coverage and a timeline for how to reach out to media people. But then also a separate checklist for volunteer recruitment is huge. That volunteer coordinator needs to know where they should be sharing information and with whom. At what day. There’s not a someday on the calendar, so making sure that their specific deadlines for each step in it is huge. The exhibitor coordinator needs to know at what intervals to reach out to sponsors to see if they’re going to exhibit two. Solicit details about who needs electricity or who’s going to be bringing a ten by ten ten things like that. So the overall checklist being broken down into subjects list makes it great to delegate and have teamwork and everybody carrying a part of the load. But Mohr ever make sure that everybody is working and tamed them together so that your checklist makes sense working? Congrats, Emily. What’s your plan for crummy weather? Oh, I wish I could just stick a biodome up over the area where we’d have our event because, unfortunately, whether it’s the number one thing you cannot control and our events do happen, rain or shine. We have had some really chilly mornings because the greens for lunch forward happens in November because that’s Lung Cancer Awareness Month. But also because Veterans Day falls in November and military veterans are impacted by lung cancer a significantly higher rate. So our weather plan is threefold. Number one. We do an amazing goodie bag for each participant that has things like an extra pair of socks. Gloves that have, like the TEC tips on, Um, um, we give out to bargains are Beanies, I guess, is the new name for them. That people can wear to cover their ears in their heads. So number one is the Good East to acquit people for the weather. Number two is we do have the contingency plan that if there is a tornado coming through or lightning strikes or things like that, would you cancel the event in that place? But the third is to just educate people from the get go that our event happens. Rain or shine. OK, thank you very much. Very welcome. That was a wonderful question. I appreciate you touched tonight. Only took me twenty five minutes to achieve one. Thank you. Now all of the questions are great, that one, especially because people don’t necessarily think about the weather being something they can’t control. Your looking on your checklist, that all these great things that you can control and unfortunately, we don’t have a magic wand away just and say, Oh, we need a bright, sunny day with seventy some degree temperatures outside. Well, you’re in North Carolina, so you have a better shot at that. And lots of other parts of the country That is very well, remember, it’s a wonderful weather and November you have a better shot of that, then Lots of other places. Okay, way. Got a few minutes left, like, three minutes or so. Left. Um, well, how how early do you like to start the planning for this? We often times start as a committee with a debrief of the prior year’s event the week or so after that prior year’s event. And because our event is in November, we will do the debriefing in December in January. And then we actually start hitting the ground hard and February with making sure location is secured that our race route is is confirmed and certified that we coordinate with the city we coordinate with the police. So we started that the past couple of weeks. In January. We will hit the ground running through February, and then our committee will start having regular meetings in Mark and we start meeting every other month with people doing functionality in between those meetings on their own. And then starting in the summer, we’ll meet every month. But our with the event being in November, we make sure that the website launch is no less than six months before the event. Okay, the registration went okay. Excellent. All right. So really, you’re ITT’s a year round deal, all right? Absolutely. Family. We just have a minute left, which I need to hold you too. So what do you want to wrap up with in a minute? Make sure that you, as a leader for your event as well as everybody on your committee, understands that everybody is human and we can do the best we can. But schedules are going to change. Problems are going to arrive. There’s going to be fires to put out. So cut yourself some slack, incorporate self care and asked for help because teamwork will make everybody so much more successful. All right, That’s excellent rap, Emily. Thank you very much. Thank you. Toni. This fabulous. My pleasure. You’re right. You are fabulous. Emily Parks. She’s at Organ. The number four success and her company is organized for success. That’s the word for dot biz. Thank you again, Emily. Thank you, Tennessee. This was a pleasure. Let’s take a break. Well, your C P s. Here’s a block post for you. The differences between your nine ninety and your financial statements. Have you ever looked at these two things and seen the same word description, but there’s two different numbers, and it seems like they ought to match, especially if the same person, same companies doing the two things. But there are reasons why they don’t that and other things. Simple explanations there covered in this In this post, you goto wagner cps dot com Click Resource is then blogged. Now, Tony steak, too. Have you become a non-profit radio insider? Yes, he’s talking about it again. Oh, my God. Because that’s where you’re going to get the special access now special access to the private videos that I’m doing with guests Thiss Week with Emily. Since she’s a productivity consultant, we’re goingto do something, as as these videos always are that we did not talk about on the show. It’s not just we got a short regurgitation of what you just listen to on the show. What’s the point of that? So we’re going to talk about a productivity tip using the Eisenhower matrix, Emily and I. So that’s one example. But there’s there’s Ah, probably got six of these or so in the can that haven’t been released yet, but it’s going to be all part of part of a they will all be part of a private playlist and you get access to the playlist. But being a non-profit radio insider, how do you do that? You go to tony martignetti dot com and you click the insider alerts button. It’s so damn simple. It’s just name and email, some other podcast. It would probably charge you, but I don’t and I’m not going to. It’s not like I’m putting you on a list that you believe you’re going to get. You’re gonna get charged. I just wanted to be an insider. That’s how you get it. Okay, So you started twenty martignetti dot com. What a surprise. Let’s bring in AA step award. She’s been listening in, and, uh, she’s our social media and technology contributor. What do you know about that? She’s also the CEO. Event ten. How about that? NON-PROFIT technology? I’m sorry. Uh, well, the Non-profit technology network she’ll admonish me. Her most recent co authored book is Social Change. Anytime, everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. She’s that Amy Sample, ward dot or GE. And at Amy R. S. Ward. Welcome back, Amy. Simple word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. Actually, just as I was waiting my turn in the digital Q. Here I was looking twenty nineteen, a brand new year calling in non-profit radio. And then I was like, Wait a second. How long have I been doing this? And I just checked my email and it six and a half years. Is that, like a real thing? Absolutely. Just gave me a chill. Literally. I have a physical chill. Give me goose bumps. Yeah, because the first show you were on, we used to talk about this on the anniversary shows, but happy Toa. You know, not that that’s the only time. But so this is how I know the first show you were on was the one hundredth show. And yes, that’s what I remember that, you know, there’s searching through your Gmail can be a little difficult. So I just Tony hundreds show because I knew that the first one and yeah, that was in July of twenty twelve. That’s right. July is every every July is a new fifty new fifty more shows. Fifty show milestone and live twenty twelve. Yeah, and we’re at show four hundred. This is four hundred twenty seven or six or eight or somewhere around there. So that’s three hundred and twenty some shows and fifty shows a year would be six, seven, six years and a little less than half. You’re absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. How do we possibly have things? They still talk about you. Uh, well, you make that you make that you make that determination on, then I routinely veto them, and then you make another determined. You probably have. Come on. So true. Yeah. You probably have come up with more. Like probably like seven hundred topics. Three hundred fifty. Some shows you’ve been on. Well, of course, you have been on every week either, but But But it has been that long. It has been that many years, you know, because you know, we get along great eye. I think you don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to. Wei have a strong enough relationship that I could say you can remain silent you on the show and it’s fine. You can remain silent when I say we have a good relationship. E-giving all right. So are you calling in from the End ten office? Yes, I’m calling in from antenna H Q, where we are quite literally surrounded by boxes as we have one last week where you know different different swag, different supplies, all the you know, physical things that make the conference happen are being sent to the office and then they get all rounded up and take take to the convention center in, like, one giant truck. So right now it’s the final week of the boxes like Back-up around us. I see Right? And, of course, we’re going to talk about nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit technology conference now. In years past, when this has not been in Portland, where your physical headquarters is, would those things just have been shipped to the hotel. And so that would should save staff a lot of a lot of labor fame. It’s here in pieces because a lot of it, you know, I mean, we are somewhat conscious of the carbon footprint we’re creating by putting on a conference. So as much as we can, we use your two year so a lot of it here in our building storage and then, you know, we bring it out in package. What we need to take for that year by the stuff that we need to buy, and then it normally gets put on him one or two palace and shipped to conventions come. But since we’re in the same town, that’s not like a thing we can’t have should become falik ties the boxes and literally just drive them across the river, you know, five minutes away. But we also can’t just take it. And, you know, like behind the scenes reality of big conference planning is that convention centers and decorators have all these rules about when you can access the pre event storage when you can access, loading, dock all of that stuff and that you’re charged every time it does get access. So instead of Ah, shipper, that’s going to put it on a pallet, you know, on some big truck and go across the country and said, We have a moving company coming to move these things. And that was quite an interesting process of trying to talk to movers. And we’re like, Well, no, we’re not moving offices, but you do need to pick it up from an office. We’re still going to work here. It’s just other stuff you’re picking up, so Yeah. Okay. That’s s o. I liked the behind the scenes stuff. Um, yeah. So you said Big conference. It’s always over two thousand. You have. Ah, you have a goal for the number of its India. We have a map Wey have, like, the amount of people that can sit in chairs. So we’re currently on track to sell out at our cap of twenty. Three hundred twenty hundred. You thinkyou? Yes. You think you’ll sell out twenty three hundred? Okay. Yeah. I mean, we have we call it a calculator, but essentially, it’s all of the week by week registration data from the last, like, ten years, and it just charts it in. So every week we put in how many registrations we do have. And it calculates out what we’re on track. Tio hit. If we continue the pattern of the previous data at Tio hit our cap of twenty three hundred a head of the conference, which means we’ll have tto, you know, hang up the closed sign on registration at some point. Yeah. Turn people away. All right. So get in. So then now place to go. Of course. Is in ten dot or GE. It’s right on the right On the home page. Big band. Is there a banner across the top? Yes. Big dahna krauz stop you. And ten dot or ge. Um Okay, So what? What are what are we signing up for? What we’re getting into if we when we sign up. I’m glad you asked. You’re getting you’re signing up for all kinds of things. There is. This is my very weak attempt creating a bridge to Emily Segment. There are some community members who already organized some morning runs, and one of the lunches has a guided walk by Beth Kantor. So the NTC, then I’ll have a technology conference ISS filled with all kinds of things that I think folks expect at any conference. They’re going to tow learn, but it’s also filled with things that I think community members often don’t expect to be in a conference. So on the first hand, there’s over one hundred eighty sessions this year so that, you know, three hundred some speakers and just lots and lots of opportunities to go learn from other practitioners what they want to dio on our conference has we label sessions are in our kind of way of thinking. We’re more like categorizing them or tagging them into the five kind of categories of an organization. So program fund-raising marketing, communications it and leadership. But they don’t act as like tracks or, you know, some conferences. You sign up and you’re you have a certain job title and those of the sessions you have to go to. That’s not how it is. I can’t see anybody can go to any session, but we use those labels because since then, DCS all about technology, there could be two sessions happening at the same time, about data or about maps or whatever. But if you see that one of them is tagged as a communication session and one is tagged as a night session, it’s easier to say, Oh, well, I couldn’t see the difference between these one of these is maybe going to be more technical, and one of these is going to be about, you know, external community communications. Um, and in that same way, there are people attending all those sessions, people speaking those sessions who are from every different kind of job type, every different kind of, you know, organizational mission, big, big, huge enterprise size organizations and really small one person organizations. So wherever you are at in that world, however, many staff are on your team or what mission your organization has there will likely be someone else has that matches your reality that you could find at the conference and share and learn with them. Have you ever gotten to go to many sessions, Tony? Because you’re always also creating content. I thank you, and we’re going to talk about what I’m gonna be doing there, but no, I’ve I’ve never been. I’m proud of this. It’s just the way, because I’m on the exhibit floor capturing fantastic interviews from your speakers. I have never been to an NTC session. Although I’ve been to This will be my fourth and T C. Hold that, though. We gotta We gotta take a break. Please tell us. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source Get a long stream of passive revenue? When cos you refer process their credit card transactions through Tello’s, watch the video, then you send the potential companies to watch. And of course, there’s also applies for your own credit card transactions as well. And you will get fifty percent of the fee that Tello’s earns for each transaction. Not the prophet. Did I say profit? No, I did not. Fifty percent of the fee for each transaction goes to you from the referrals you make to tell us that video you will find at the landing page for listeners at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s All right, you gotta do the live listener love on DH. It’s going out. It’s going out. Tio, New York, New York, Brooklyn, New York. Thank you. Brooklyn and New York for Brooklyn and Manhattan being with us. Uh, let’s go. Let’s go west Phoenix, Arizona and Tampa, Florida. Well, that’s coming back east, of course. Um, and then let’s go abroad. We got We got two nations where we cannot tell the city and they’re very disparate. One is Columbia, and one is Russia. So I’m sorry I cannot dahna shout you out by city, but the live love goes naturally. It just goes, it goes to the whole country generally. And then you got the targeted and the specific and the attribution yl love directly to those listeners. And then we also got sent to Domingo in the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic. We don’t see you too often, so thank you. Thanks for being with us. Live Love to you as well. Yes. And the podcast pleasantries. Thank you very much. But I’m not finished quite yet because I have to send the podcast pleasantries. Amy, you know that That’s the that’s the vast majority of our audience thie over thirteen thousand people who listen, whatever device, whatever time whenever it fits into their life could be Could be the next couple days. Could be many weeks or even a couple of months sometimes based on the stats, and I see the loud the downloads continue. We easily weeks after and sometimes months after an episode, so That means podcast pleasantries. Tow our podcast listening audience. Now, Amy Sample Ward. Thank you for your indulgence there. Um, yeah. So non-profit radio is partnering with and is sponsored by You don’t mind if I do a lot nastad out on my own ship. Well, y you know what I’m doing Asking you? Yeah, Come on. Stony martignetti Non-profit. When did I get so polite? What is this transformation? Yeah, of course. I’m gonna be doing a video and saying more about this as we get closer. Teo Ntcdinosaur Tch is March thirteenth to fifteenth. Um, we’re sponsored by ActBlue at at the NTC Act Blue and Non-profit Radio. We’re gonna be sharing a booth with an oversized booth a ten by twenty. So come and see us. ActBlue will be there and they are the non-profit radio sponsors. As I’m capturing at least twenty five, hopefully as many as thirty interviews for later broadcast on the show. All speakers from Ntcdinosaur as people come off or sometimes before they do their session, they come and see us in the booth. And we recorded very cool interview all about using technology to make your work easier so that you can focus more on your mission and less on the the tribulations of technology. This is ntcdinosaur and ten and ntc. That’s anti tech tribulations. That could be our new catchphrase. Yeah, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t use that. I don’t think it’s for just that. They both start with T, but they don’t have the same sound. So it’s not an alliteration. It’s just two teams that don’t. So don’t don’t use that. In fact, let’s let’s talk about something that’s Ah, I thought you were going to admonish me for even even set it up so you could admonish me. So End ten is no longer the non-profit technology network. Right? Okay. Eso you’ve got You’re going the way of the American Automobile Association, the National Abortion Rights Action League, Thie, American Association of Retired Persons. All these organization that just want to be known by letters. What? Why do you do that? So we’ve always been known by letters. We’ve always been in your right hand, but I’ve always been allowed to say and ten we allowed Or we kept the Non-profit technology network a piece of it. Not that we use that ourselves, but that it was still there if you went to the website or, you know, use the logo or whatever, because people have this very strong expectation that they should get to know what the letters. I mean, you know that the letters have to be an acronym and that they need to know that I’m afraid I’m one of the one. Ultimately, even though we were saying the word stood for non-profit technology network, that wasn’t even what they stood for anyway, are actual legal name is Non-profit Technology Enterprise Network. What is Enterprised? Clearly has an organization. This wasn’t just me. You know, this is many years even more. I was here that e I did not mean anything. It’s not being used. So we just got to a place where we said, Why do we have to focus on Non-profit technology network? Which, if you didn’t know if you weren’t part of the community, just heard those three words. What do those three words means? They don’t really mean anything, right? Like they’re still not very descriptive. Um, so if the whole long words aren’t descriptive, let’s just stick with the name we already used. It’s maybe not descriptive, but neither is the long words. So let’s just go with an ten. Have that be our name and move on. Not have to spend all of this time. Oh, and then stand for this. No intense stand for no technology tribulations and stands for using technology strategically to meet real community need. Right? Like, get that piece out of there. Stop wasting time on that and just say, antennas this community in this work, and this is what we d’oh Okay, Okay, but, I mean, I think non-profit technology that part of it anyway, of the Non-profit technology network. I mean, yeah, I don’t agree. I mean, I think that’s descriptive. It says it says we’re about non-profits and we’re about technology, but Antenna doesn’t tell me even, Well, where do social enterprises sitting there? Where does that mean that we build technology or that we use technology or we endorse technology or were consultants I’m not offering. That is our perspective. But those are the questions we got all the time based on that name. Okay, because non-profit technology network could Alright, could mean a lot of different things. I was just focusing on the fact that it at least narrows it down from from brightstep. Ditigal would come to us say, Oh, it says that you you must build non-profit. You must build technologies for non-profits ru must, you know? So it’s still wass. Those words have meaning, but it’s a different meaning to all different people. And it is It wasn’t right. You build websites or something like that. Okay. Okay. So So then a newcomer Well, a newcomer would goto and ten dot or GE, presumably on. And then I guess they would quickly about. And then they would then read the text on the about Paige, right? I think it’s that simple, right? Okay. Okay. Look, very few people really care what didn’t What’s the name of the organization is what they’re coming to the website for is all the content that we have the conference looking for community groups, right? They’re coming for something else. And the name is just like where they got that article from right way. Didn’t we have received one email sense since dropping the Non-profit technology Network and on Lee going within ten, which is something we did back in November. But we have received one email from from someone that just said, You know, I’ve spent x amount of minutes I cannot find on your website what NTM stands for, and I need to know. I need to know. All right. Right. Well, did you talk about him or her off the ledge and word using technology strategically to meet your mission? It stands for deporting this community in this way. You know, you used to tell her you didn’t tell them they want and they wanted to know what? Those letters. So did you give it up? Eventually Did you say non-profit technology, Enterprise Network? Or did you refuse? I don’t know. I think I wasn’t me. That responded. I didn’t get the email. I think they may have said, You know, our founding legal name is this, but this is our D B. A. I’m not sure. All right. We just see this is This is why I, uh um Oh, yeah. No, we got time. Yeah, I’m thinking I just got a cue that we only have a minute left thinking Oh, my God. Can’t be over yet. But that’s just for a break, OK? Just for a break. Yes. Yes, of course. Way need Teo Metoo? Yes, but now we need to talk about ntcdinosaur. Uh ah. There’s more to say. And I’ve I’ve decided from from talking to Emily I think I’m going to coin this new thing W worthless host digressions because we’re there rife there with the show is rife with them today. And they do pop up from time to time. W hd is worthless. Host digressions. All right, let me take Let me take our last break. Please. Hoexter give. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source. This is the second way you heard the first way before now is the second way right now. Amglobal e-giving learn about it with text. Gives five part email many course. Very simple. You get five emails over five days, dispelling myths, telling you how that it’s not as expensive as people think that the barriers are not high etcetera, including the tech barriers. Um, very easy start the many course to get it going. You text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Okay, and indeed, we do have several more minutes left, for example, Ward and ah, what else without? I was going to So what I was saying earlier we could rewind prior Tio tio. It’s hard to remember. Sometimes it’s hard to remember what came before there. So long. So long, their arduous. I was saying, There’s things people in debate, so duvette educational sessions. But the things that folks don’t necessarily anticipate that are part of what I think makes the NTC such a special event are more of the community pieces. So every day during lunch we have active sessions. So instead of a session where you would go sit in a room and hear somebody speak these air sessions where you can go do something. So there’s yoga. One day there’s going for a guided walk around around the river outside the convention center. You know things like that. You don’t need toe, bring other clothes, are you know Otherwise, Prepare for those things. You Khun, decided to him in the moment, but they’re just a different kind of peace. Um, all of the lunches and the breakfast on the last day have what we call birds of a feather. And those are things where people even now are submitting topics that they want and those then get set on the table. And anybody, you don’t just sign up for them. But you can go find one of those tables and meet other attendees and talk and those air anything from people saying, You know, I use WordPress for my website and I want to talk to other WordPress users to people who like Star Wars or people that mitt for people that like board games, eso it. It doesn’t have to just be technical topics, but that’s a really fun piece. And similarly, in the evenings we have dine around where people say, I want to go to dinner because we always need to eat dinner and you can just put your name onto a list. And these air reservations made for six people at all at, you know, delicious restaurants around town. And you don’t know the other five people. But you all get to go to dinner together and have a great dinner. And you are only responsible for buying your own food, of course, but you get to meet a couple other people in a setting that is, eh, Something needed to dio You need to eat, but be a small group. So you’re not trying to, you know, Here’s somebody ten seats down. I’m just a small group dinner. And, of course, Portland, Portland. Very well known for food here. I’m here. I’m season on the food again, like I did earlier. Yes, you make. No, we’re already trying to limit, you know, but challenge. We’re coming up with just again pulling back the curtain here to the behind the scenes is Portland Restaurant culture is mostly a no reservation culture. So the way the dying around usually work is that we have placed, you know, We’ve held reservations at restaurants, and then people can just add their name to the block. But many restaurants don’t allow reservations at all. So and that convict for tasty, delicious Portland restaurants. That way, we anticipate people want to go, too. So we’re trying to think of ways where it’s like you all are signing up with the group, but you’re just gonna walk over there and wait together for table. Might just have to be the reality, you know, right? But for a table of six, you know, that could be a bit of a weight too, right? That’s going to have fun around it. You know, we can have fun in the restaurant right now. Yeah, okay. But you know, you’re driving home the point that a lot of ntcdinosaur community driven. You keep it very open for people, Teo, contribute ideas and make ideas happen at NTC from the community. Very. Yeah, well, altum up. I mean, if you want to plan ahead and and do that kind of thing, you can. But we also wanted to be a place where people feel like they could meet somebody in the hall, start having a conversation, Realize they want to organize something and be able to have that happen while they’re still in person at the conference. Yes, that’s something I admire about Ntcdinosaur. So we have a couple of more minutes left. Of course, you goto in ten dot org’s you’ll it’ll be very obvious where to go to sign up. Are we still in the early bird pricing time, or has that passed? Oh, that passed in December. We got ten days until the regular registration rate runs out on DH. Pretty shortly after that is when we’ll be it the sellout No limit on the wait list to go up. So definitely go get your registration. And one thing we’re always asked is if they’re still opportunities to present. And the M ten session process is again kind of a community open process. People submit sessions in the summer than the community votes on them than US Steering Committee of experts based on topics vote on them, etcetera. And so that process has already happened, however, part of and then values and recognizing how strong and smart this community is that we don’t allow single speaker sessions. There is no topic that could be covered that truly. Only one human knows about it, so we don’t have sessions where just one opinion is getting shared. But however, that means there are some sessions where the person who you know is leading the session and was accepted. They don’t know somebody else that’s done a project like they have done, or they don’t know someone else who has an area of expertise like they have. So we have a page on the website. Anybody can see that lists any sessions where the speaker has currently told us they want help finding another speaker. So if you want to go, that page changes every day. But if folks want to go to that additional speakers page in the program section of the website and take a look. And if there’s a topic there that you know about, you can fill out the form and suggest yourself as their co presenter. Awesome, yes, So there there is still that opportunity. Wonderful. All right, so that’s Ah, twenty nineteen, the nineteen ntcdinosaur course. That’s the Hashtag ninety ninety SI Portland, Oregon at the Convention Center in Portland, March thirteenth, the fifteenth Come See me and Act Blue and non-profit radio together in a booth. Um, any sample board, of course, will be one of the guests that will be interviewing. And they’ll be twenty four to twenty nine other guests of panels. Panels that, Amy. That’s true. You’re the only single that I do interview at NTC sometimes. Well, actually, sometimes it’s a panel, but only one person could show up. It could be a panels two or three, but only one. But that’s rare. It’s quite rare, like one or two others. Maybe it’s always at least two people be for the probably eighty percent of the interview interviews that I captured there. All right, we have to wrap that up. Thank you so much. Amy and I will see you. I’LL see you in March. I can’t wait to see you. Great. Thank you very much. She’s Amy Sample Ward Amy sample war dot org’s and at Amy R. S Ward, you goto and ten dot org’s to sign up for nineteen Auntie si next week. Financial fraud with Tiffany couch. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com insiders, you’ll be hearing increasing your productivity with the Eisenhower Matrix with Emily Parks. Get those videos sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers regular cps dot com Bye. Tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. 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Nonprofit Radio for October 12, 2018: KPIs & Fundraging

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Anna Rhodes & Brenna Holmes: KPIs
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference (18NTC), shares its wisdom and insight on using key performance indicators to build consensus around goals and measures for your nonprofit. They’re Anna Rhodes and Brenna Holmes from Chapman, Cubine & Hussey.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Fundraging
Amy Sample WardIs your org positioned to accept help from supporters who are pissed off and want to channel their anger to something constructive, like raising money for you? Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN), explains what’s going on and how you can take advantage.

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent under aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with gastro inter opto sis, if you brought me down with the idea that you missed today’s show kp eyes our panel from the non-profit technology conference eighteen ntc shares its wisdom and insight on using key performance indicators to build consensus around goals and measures for your non-profit they’re anna roads and brenda homes from chapman, cubine and husky and fund-raising is your organ positioned to accept help from supporters who are pissed off and wanna channel their anger to something constructive, like raising money for you ? Amy sample ward, our social media contributor and ceo of and ten non-profit technology network, explains what’s going on and how you can take advantage. Tony, take two thank you, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wetness e p a is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine nine here are and erodes and brenna homes with k p iis. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use, dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guests are on a road and brenda homes. Anna is deputy director of analytics at chapman cubine and husky, and brenda holmes is vice president of digital at c c h ladies. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to have you both have you. Have you done your session already ? We did. We just just finished, finished all your coming off it, all right, it’s coming off the hyre exact. The bar is open now. Life is good. You’re topic was, but are we making progress, establishing and using kp eyes ? Okay, uh, maybe we’ll start with, make sure that everybody understands that a k p i is a what you stated in unison together, keep performance in the caner. We see that the voice okay, i think that’s pretty well understood, but let’s, just make sure, okay, why are these things so important ? Let’s start with anna because, er it is so hard to keep everyone within a non-profit hyre working towards the same goal instead of looking at all of their different measurement. Um, so having a way to agree on what success really looks like can actually end up making you be more successful in the end, because then you’re all working towards the same goals. Okay, so the part of this topic is organizational buy-in or we’ll not organic. Yes, whatever happens, you fire of you defined focus, a bunch of people, a bunch of people need to agree, so called that buy-in okay. And i also see another part of this is data overload. I mean there’s, just so much available, right. We need to focus on brenna on what’s what’s, the most important stuff. Exactly. Yeah, and the main thing, you have them clearing up the misnomer that not all kept metrics are kp eyes, right ? So everybody does have to agree. On what what are we trying to track ? Why are we tracking it ? How does that help us meet our strategic objectives and our end goals, right. So once you have the buy-in on all those goals, then you’re able to dig down deeper and develop. What are those specific metrics that will help us meet these kp eyes that we can then measure against those strategic objectives to ensure that we do have success and that we are tracking over time ? Okay, okay, very good, that’s, great, overviewing, thank you. Alright, so. Well, should we should we start with our so we started our organizational goals. Yes, because that’s what ? We’re measuring against that, you’re just saying that. So now we got to get okay. So this all obviously should flow from our mission. I’m gonna go back to that. That that that fourteen year old voice, that really reason that we exist our mission statement. Okay, from that, we have gold now. Now. Okay, i’m gonna assume that everybody buys into the mission. Otherwise they wouldn’t be working there. Hopefully. But now now way. Get to the goal stage people could start falling out. That’s where the disagree it’s not too far from mission to gold, but we could start losing people. What do we do ? Go ahead, runner. Yeah, i’m gonna start so we we like to focus it on the building. Kind of smart goals, right ? So what do we need to do ? Departmental e department by department to help us achieve our mission on dh. Really phoning it in tow ? Really ? No. More than two. Three. And i went up to five in our session. I was like, oh, but, you know, two, three things that we all can agree on as a group that these are priorities. These are important goals. And, yes, there’s. Other things that are important. But if we let ourselves go down the rabbit hole of just saying, listing everything that’s important now, things no longer important, which is what you’re starting with you yours, referring to earlier with the data overload and it’s, especially. Eazy, because digital metrics can be so different than offline metric to instead have the i’m actually moving it away a little bit, okay, okay don’t worry, it can actually be easy. Tohave the metric create new divisions within just the development department divisions that didn’t even exist before, but it’s sustainers causing problems in solving so a cz longest. You’re looking at twenty things in google analytics and through the facebook manager over here, and then a completely different set of metrics for direct male you’re not even working towards the same goals within the development department. So that’s part of why so important to start at the goal side of things rather than at the measurement side of things, so that the measurements always air serving the goals supporting those goals, right ? Okay, i imagine we need top down by this has got to come from leadership. That’s the goal agreement we still go agreement it’s got to be driven from above and and accepted. Yes, it doesn’t necessarily have to be driven from above but don’t really actually, i was you know, as i was saying, i think it could be bottom up it can be, but but but the leadership has to be on a great okay. Okay, for sure. All right. Uh, all right. So we agree on our goals. Now, now we’re moving to our kp eyes. How are we going to how do we know what that’s measurable belongs at the top within within these goals ? Yeah, that we’ve all agreed on. Well, and even before you get teo, what are the kp eyes ? We need to develop strategic objectives for each goal, okay ? Because the girls tend to be a little bit umbrella there. Vega. Right way. Operation. Exactly like we use greenpeace. One of our clients in our session today partnered with us, and one of their goals is defending democracy. Okay, well, that’s big right and an existential and long and yeah, eso then we developed strategic objectives that will help them measure against whether or not they’re being successful in duvette defending democracy it’s time for a break pursuant there. E book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and practices to your non-profit it’s free as you’re accustomed to all the pursuant resources. Are and it’s on the listener landing page ? No surprise, tony dahna may slash pursuing capital p for please and pursuing i guess now back to kp eyes from the non-profit technology conference. So what are you ? What are some of them that they chose so way ? Work through those greenpeace ? How come that on right now is accident or not at this table ? Alright, now they’re long sorry, it’s not proper radio your life. I know, i know, but we worked through them from the department perspective. So what would it mean for the fund-raising department to be supporting the organization goal of defend democracy ? So it is easy for fundraisers to think that their job is always the same. It is always just raise money, raise lots of money and then we’re done. But there actually is more nuanced than that if we’re trying to defend democracy. Well, sadly, that isn’t something that we’re just doing today or for the next month. That’s actually a long term project and certainly at least through the trump presidency. And and, you know, given how greenpeace defines this goal of actually reducing the amount of money in politics, i mean that’s going to take sometime. So that means whatever funding that fund-raising is supplying has to be sustainable and it’s the net that matters, not just the growth tomorrow. Okay, so that means now we’ve clarified the objective in the fund-raising department. So that’s, the next stage come up with the mission statement for the organization ? We’ve turned that into a number of goals for the organization, the big dream things defend democracy, stop global warming, all of these huge concepts and then we’ve broken them down for how does my department contribute to that ? And on lee, once you’ve done that, can you decide ? What am i going to measure what’s actually being, what do i need to measure ? Ok, right. So the object’s strategic objective is growth in sustainable net revenue. We’ll both sustainable and net are two measurable things. So then you can build your kp eyes off of those keywords on dh actually, decide on what are the metrics that we have to check ? How do we agree on collecting that data so that everything has a flat, measured baseline that we can then benchmark ourselves against what periodically so that we’re checking in on that growth ? Side of the goal and when we’re at this stage, is this just our department ? That’s that’s really making these decisions ? Okay, so we’re not we’re not at the higher levels anymore. It’s not necessary, correct is where the department level, but we’re going to build back-up so we’ve gone down to the department level to figure out that’s, so i mean, you’re using your expertise, so you want your fundraisers figuring out how fund-raising can best support the fund-raising goal, right ? You don’t i don’t want a cfo deciding that, but in the end, the cfo has two buy-in on it, all of leadership does have two buy-in so once the various organizations have figure out out their objectives and their kp eyes, then you have to come back up a level and talk across departments and see how these objective support each other and possibly adjust them is where we ended up with our greenpeace example is actually making slight objectives when the marketing department and the fund-raising department saw the amount of overlap between their objectives and the tactics in specific that they were planning in order to get there, so that sounds like an ah ha! Moment, way. Have a lot more in common than we realized. A cross marketing and fund-raising. Exactly. Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, dahna, but let me ask you where should we go next with this ? Where do we go next with discussion ? You talk good. Well, i was just gonna say i think, you know, we used marketing and fund-raising as the example here because obviously, the ntc audiences, a lot of marketers and fundraisers, but the same structure and the same necessity for kp eyes it’s in all departments, right ? Whether it’s, your program, people who are actually implementing the services or whether it’s your public relations or media relations outreach people like all of these departments have to go through the same process on. And i think there will be a lot of those. Ah ha. Moments for organizations who are used to working in silos when they start thinking about the goals. Right ? Actually being achievable of strategic objectives that can be measured to get back against the mission on dh over there. Okay, uh, what about digital digital fund-raising kp eyes ? You talked some about that ? Yeah. Okay, let’s. Shut out. You want to start anna s. So there are a lot of questions about digital fund-raising kp eyes because people immediately go to the measurements available. In google analytics, and which one of these should i use as if the answer is the same for everyone ? So this just, you know, as if conversion rate on your petitions should be asserted number for every single organization and that’s what defines success ? Because we can show you how to set that up in google analytics, so that came up in our session, and it was a another reminder to folks to go back to the beginning, decide on your goals. Yeah, i think i feel like a lot of ways it’s, like the ultimate consultant answer is it depends right ? Because everything is it is individualized. If you’re not taking the time to audit yourselves and personalize and get that organizational buy-in and that organizational priority list, then they don’t really matter than they aren’t kp eyes, they’re just metrics, whether they’re showing growth or loss or what they’re just vanity numbers at that point because they have no tie to the strategic objectives in the mission of the organization. We had one question in the session, which was great, and it was about supporter scoring and i think that’s mental really hot topic in the digital. Space border scoring ? Yeah, i don’t know what that is. Okay, so when the ads taking basically qualitative, um, pieces of information, whether that behavioral traits or demographic things on dh scoring it, putting a quantitative wait to that to then build a model to show you these are my best people, my top ten deaths ill or my latto bottom ten on dh, then also using it to find lookalike audiences and things like that out in the world. So you want you’re doing this for different constituencies like donors, volunteers, exactly, event attendees, service beneficiaries, okay, different constituencies. And the problem is exactly the same problem that folks have with models in the direct marketing space is that for non-technical users, they hear model, and they’re like, oh, it obviously adjust to my program. It’s must have something to do with artificial intelligence. I hear all these things are great, these people are scored at the top, therefore they’re the best for me, and then they’re surprised when the results don’t match that. But any model has to be based on what your actual goals are, so if you’re using a response rate, a response based model and your goal is actually to increase high dollar donors. That model is not going to serve you. The people with the top score in that model are not necessarily going to be the high dollar donors. And so it was the same thing with the supporter scoring thie. It was a very good question, but it again starts from the data side of things rather than the gold side of things. We have all of this data. We have thes scores saying these supporters are our best ones. We should contact them every chance that we get our screening. Fill those right back. Yes, when i think a lot of it stemmed for for that, for a lot of people in for him in particular, asking the question that like which which one should i buy ? Right which model is best ? Which scoring which software should i purchase that you actually have to do the internal look looking in to find out what’s important to you before you decide what direction on demand that of the vendors ? Because it’s true, that all of these models can be adjusted when you are able to communicate what is actually valuable to your organization. Otherwise, you’re going to screen it. You mean screening ? Yeah. Yeah. That’s not commonly known. Now, i think i think most most orders say they just take the algorithms. Yeah, they’re provided the show. Andi. Everybody gets the same. Same right ? Yeah. Yeah, that that’s not leveraging that to its utmost. Yeah. That’s. A very good that’s. A very important point. I think people are just taking it and they figure well, there there’s a half a dozen vendors. So there are each have different a proprietary algorithm way. Have to pick one, right ? Not so. And not so you can. You can negotiate. Oh, yeah. I got a chorus thing just like the k p i s started you off area that’s. Two songs together. Ask for what you need and it doesn’t matter what how big the screening of doesn’t matter whether martin lundy or blackbaud or know it it is it is going to affect of the pricing, but asking the question it does not affect the pricing. So always asked the question of these air the things that are important to us. What would that mean for the price that you would offer on the model that you built that incorporates these things that are important to us. So find that out from a few different vendors when i was a good partner vendor is going to ask those questions of you the best ones will write they don’t know because they do try and have everybody tries to have an off the shelf product that’s going to be successful for the majority of users, but really the ones that are caring about donor-centric communication and really carrying about long term relationships with the non-profit that they partner with should be asking those questions because it is about building that custom model based on the weights and measures that are important to each of the organization and each individual program or department in the organization. Okay, in my experience, that’s it’s not surely aspirations on night. I’m an optimist. Yeah, there’s optimism and then there’s today i think you know that saying, you know, you know, but i just haven’t experienced it. I know i’m working planned e-giving fund-raising so i’m not, you know, i don’t have all the conversations with potential screening vendors, but i just have never heard this that you can negotiate. On tweaking tweaking of the yeah, i’ve never heard that i’ve always you know, i say whether it’s your own professional development like negotiating raises or what but if you don’t ask, you get everything is negotiable. Everything’s negotiable think lorts in london was negotiable. And speaking of an analyst there’s nothing that i like better than being told exactly what your goals are so that i can build something that it’s really going to be successful, right ? Yeah, that’s the battle them to anna and say, show me these numbers, right ? I come to and i say, i’m trying to figure out this about this co owners this i’m trying to figure out the answer to this question, and then she comes back to me with the metrics that solve for x better than actually just telling me ac okay, yeah, well, we still have ah, good number of minutes together left. What ? What else ? Maybe other questions that got asked or other things that came out of your that were in your session that we haven’t talked about yet ? What else is there ? Well, one question that i got wass what software solves this ? I’m paraphrasing, but basically it was what what do i buy that will make this ? Um but thiss kp i process ? Yeah, are there ? Are there tech solutions way ? Haven’t talked about that at all ? No, i don’t think everybody just wants that easy answer, right ? Nobody likes introspection, and there are tons and tons of software programs that can display your kp eyes, so if you’re looking for a data visualization, a solution that board a dashboard product there’s tons and tons of thumb out there and what i told this person was that if your issue is that you don’t have the staff, teo, learn new software and you don’t have the budget to buy something that isn’t going to solve all of your problems. Then don’t buy anything, put your kp ice and excel, but, um, in a word, doc, if you have and it really is the process and the conversations and having thie organization wide agreement that makes this powerful not you know all, i’ll create some great visualization for you, but i can create plenty of great visualizations using meaningless data. Some some some of this discussion reminds me of ah, strategic planning discussion still mean you’re getting organizational buy-in we’re all agreeing on common goals and the measures toward those goals. I mean, those goals inform the future direction of the of the organization. So there’s overlap between this and a strategic planning process. Yeah ? Oh, definitely. Yeah, and that was a big part of it. The draw. When ana came up with the session idea, i thought it would be she roped you in ? Well, no, i basically solicited her. But then she came up with the idea because ntcdinosaur like solo. So i mean, i don’t know, but i’m the one that speaks of these things all the time. And i was like, anna, your turn. But it was her idea. The session was great and i just fell in love with it because it’s not just about numbers, right and that’s what people think that’s always important question. Exactly agreement. It really is about the change. Even change management, strategic planning like all of you respect exactly. And that’s, i think is. So is it lost on a lot of people, especially at non-profits ? Where everybody’s wearing ? A lot of hats, everybody is doing multiple jobs and just trying to get the next thing done on the list that this really forces you. If you want to do a right to take a step back and think about how your day to day activities impact the mission, impact the strategic objectives and on go from there and i think that’s, i think that’s really refreshing for people to do just in general, whether you’re developing kp eyes or not, because it does make you think about why we do what we dio and people who work in non-profits as well as those who partner like us, who partner with them, we do this because we love right now work the outcomes of the mission that zit and we all get so tied up in the weeds of the day today that we forget about the mission and how amazing the organizations that we work with. Our and people have a very hard time because they’re wearing a million hats, hats, and they have way too much on their plate. They just need to get that next e mail out so that they have a very hard time. Deciding okay, today i’m going to stop and actually go through this k p i building process, but i would urged people to try it because, uh, wait, we have a couple minutes left, and i think we talked a lot about motivation. Hyre logistically, how do you take this on you ? We meet once a week, tio i mean, he’s, a big topic you can’t you can’t do this in a in a week now, but you meet once a week, over months or a couple days over every other. How did you do this ? Logistically, i would suggest tacking it onto the front of your annual budgeting process, so work back off from when you’re budgets are due to the board, and then when their due to your department lead and due to leadership, and then give yourself a minimum of a month, but ideally two months so it’s, like not unusual for to be a six month process from the time of the department objective and kp i development to the time that the budget is actually finalized and signed off on by the board. Okay, excellent, helpful and that forces you to revisit on at least. On an annual basis, right, because you’re reevaluating before that next expenditure budget is good into place annually now, okay, okay, yeah, we have, like a minute and a half left. I wantto make sure this fits just right. So where ? Who wants to leave ? Leave us with closing thoughts. You know what else to say ? Okay. I wish i had something easy. Tio. You’ve seen this working clients, right using transformation and clients in the process can work. Yeah, stamina. Devote your vote attention to it. And i have seen it make those data day tasks easier, because then you have fewer interruptions from other departments or from leadership trying to push you in a million different directions. Dahna. Okay, it’s. A really good point. That’s. A good place. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Love are well done. Wonderful. Okay, thanks. They are on a road. Deputy director of analytics chapman, cubine and husi. And also brenholz vice president of digital at c c h. The interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with accounting or your nine ninety ? Are you thinking about a change of accountants in this ? Ah, next in the next cycle for yourself. Check out weinger cpas. Dot com. You start your due diligence there, of course. And then talk to them. The partner ? Yeah. Huge tomb. You know, he’s been on the show. He’s a good guy. I trust him weinger cpas dot com the place to start now. Time for tony steak too. Do i say thank you too often ? If i do, please let me know, but i’m saying it now. I am grateful that we have the support we have now over thirteen thousand listeners, whether you are listening, live podcast or affiliate thank you if you’re following along on twitter. If you’ve, uh you’re following what we call it on youtube is just following subscribing if you subscribed on youtube twitter, youtube i thank you facebook, facebook, facebook fans! It doesn’t mean much anymore. It seems to have very much faded into sort of triviality. I remember the days we used to say like us on facebook. Facebook dot com slash twenty monday now provoc radio those were the dark days, but i’m grateful that’s it. Thank you. However you’re with us. Thank you very much. It’s. My pleasure to welcome back amy sample ward. You know her for god’s sake, she’s, our social media contributor in the ceo of and ten the non-profit technology network where we just heard a segment from for the last conference her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample war dot or ge and at amy rs ward welcome back, amy simple word hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s always a pleasure. I am. I’m always waiting for the day when i just stopped getting invitations. Yeah, it’ll happen that way too. I won’t officially tell you. I’ll just stop course. Just slowly stop scheduling me and i will know it. It’s over. Yeah, i won’t even be slow. It’ll be abrupt. It’ll just have the thing. And then six months later, you’ll think about well, hopefully is not that long. Couple months later think packed. Jeez, tony hasn’t been in touch with me for, well, that’s the way it’ll happen. Um, okay, so we’re talking about fund-raising fund-raising underage. What ? Yeah. What ? Uh, put this on your radar. Well, you know, i don’t think it’s necessarily new. I think it is. Has old as the world of fund-raising, you know, centuries and centuries old. But it has been something that here and in ten. As as staff, we’ve been talking about a lot, especially in the last two year political climate on dh it’s the way that i would define thunder aging is you can think of it a bit a bit like peer-to-peer where it’s individuals it’s not necessarily on organization or staff members, people out in the community fund-raising and it’s, the fund-raising that happens or the campaigns that happen in response to things in the news, you folks in a specific geographic community care that something is being proposed or moving forward ? That’s going tio threatened a way that they live their life or the way that the organizations they support are able to do their work, and in response to that kind of anger, that rage, they want to feel like they’re doing something, and it doesn’t feel like there’s really anything that’s in their power to do in-kind of that complex world we live in of policymakers and government officials and all the way down to us citizens. And so they start a fund raising campaign to benefit those organizations that they support that they see as the ones who are in a position to try and make a change or support people experiencing whatever situation is happening. So it’s really driven by individuals reacting to the news, you know, whatever that news, maybe not saying that this is something that only happens in one kind of view or political party, but as as a country, i think we see these examples of fund-raising jane becoming more and more visible, bigger impact on dh more, yeah, so not new, but certainly amped up under thinks the twenty sixteen election and since donald trump is president certainly amped up on really throughout the country, but, you know, i even has they say both sides because i’m trying to get away from us being a polarized nation, but across all across all political spectrums amped up yeah, okay, okay, yeah, you know, there’s a there’s, a there’s, a sense that, right ? You know, it it comes from a sense of sort of incapacity, you know ? Yeah, i think it really is that powerlessness that i think a lot of communities feel where, where the ability to make policy or protect existing policy or change processes doesn’t feel like something they are ever a part of, and yet they’re impacted by the results of those changes and that powerlessness, i think, is part of that rage, right ? How could this happen ? But also, how could this happen and not include me when i am a person that is a part of this, and so a kind of counterbalance that there’s this feeling of ? Well, if there’s on top of us, you know that all donate five players surely will be able to pull those funds, you know, into this organization or into this movement that can’t help that a lot of this i think, comes from or is is related to what you and i talked about in august over marketing, you know, if if there’s if there’s an over marketing problem in the non-profit community, if we’re constantly at eleven on a scale of zero to ten, then you know where, where were guilty of amping up the amping up the rhetoric, right on dh, the passions and the anger and the outrage for sure, and, you know, we don’t have to go down that path, but i think fund-raising when done successfully and by successfully to meet a part of that means in conjunction with an existing organisation and you know kind of ah request or past that makes sense for them to move forward with when that happens. It’s, because organizations are not over marketing, right ? They are very clear there, very consistent. They are providing information that helped synthesize the news, the changes, the policies, whatever it is and demonstrates really clearly that they are part of the fight or the solution or the alternative path. And that way it’s clear for supporters again. You know, these aren’t necessarily campaigns driven by the organization’s. These air campaigns driven by community members who just are so fed up they want to do something. And so when organizations can be very clear and communication be very consistent about the the things they respond to in the news or the issues that they are going to speak about, it positions community members to know oh, my gosh, i’m so upset. You know, i heard this thing on the news, but i know this organization i support, i trust them. I know exactly what they do. I know exactly how they’re part of a solution that i want to see. I feel comfortable and confident starting to fund raise for them because i know where they stand, i know what they do, and i’m able to even borrow that language, you know, for my facebook poster for my, you know, fund-raising page and in a home run by the organization, they’ve given me the tools and resources to help me create a campaign, you know ? So exactly we’ll get to that because, you know, you want to have ideally you want to have these things in place so that the community is empowered. Exactly, yeah, do you because you want to benefit from this, you know, if your community is upset, there’s there’s a potential benefit for you if you’re working in that space ? Exactly. Do you have a sense of what ? What helps make thes campaigns more successful ? O or not ? Yeah, i mean, i think that like anything there’s going to be those examples that are true out liars on dh, you know, feel like magical unicorn rainbow fundraisers that happened, and we’re not necessarily trying to replicate those, but the things that you can do is an organization beyond what we were just talking about being really clear and consistent on the issues that you talk about, that you respond to in the news demonstrating and communicated kating, how you address those things do all of that, but also i think if you think about this as a peer-to-peer campaign that you’re just not launching, you want to go through some of the same steps, you want to make sure that as an organization you can take donations electronically, that you, you know, have that kind of donation button set up on your website, but also that your, you know, maybe registered on various other peer-to-peer donation platforms so that if people wanted to create a campaign for you, you’re in the system and they can, you know, attach to your profile and have the funds go to u s o that’s one kind of administrative step to take and then on a planning communication side of things, you want to make sure that you’ve done again some of those same peer-to-peer best practices, you’ve got some tool kits that are really easy to find on your website, really easy to follow that say, if you’re going fund-raising for and then you know, whatever your organisation’s name is, here are the things that we know are successful here’s what ? Our logo file is that people aren’t just making a version of your logo that’s not right here’s, you know our mission statement here’s what we’re doing on these kind of top five issues, whatever you think may end up being the things that kind of rage people into fund-raising for you, so you already have sametz tab lish talking points out there, so put some of those tool kits together on dh. I also think that it’s important to keep in that you know it doesn’t have to be a pdf. It could be a page on your website that is, quote unquote the tool kit. It could be a google dog, it could be whatever, but make sure it’s up to date and you’re including things that are even even for people who want to want to fund rage but don’t want to create a whole page for you somewhere or don’t want it to be a long term thing, but they’re kind of really easy to copy paste messages that point back to your donation form so even if they don’t have the capacity or or maybe skills and knowledge to set up a fundraising page for you, they could copy paste that facebook comment that says, you know, i support and ten this is what they’re doing on this issue here’s the donate link so that you can even get those folks, or maybe it’s the lighter end of the spectrum. We gotta take a break tell us you’ve heard from charities that referred companies for credit card processing, and they’re getting the revenue each month you’ve heard from the companies using tello’s for their credit card processing now can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue that comes from the fees that tello’s urns from the companies you refer. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony tello’s. Now, let’s, go back to amy sample ward. You ticked off a whole bunch of things there, andi, you didn’t have to go, but you were concise, you know, like you’re reading the outline for your next book for this chapter, fund-raising because, you know, i think that it’s important to keep in mind as like an idea about all of this is that this may be different from how organizations may think about other fund-raising campaign is that often really successful ? Fund-raising campaigns community led fund-raising campaigns the organization’s air in the background, but that doesn’t mean the organizations were not actively a part of that campaign being successful, so you don’t have to be the star because you’re going to be the start that’s all the talking points or about how you are going to do this change and that’s why people air are fund-raising you don’t need to be the voice that’s saying all of that so don’t feel like once somebody starts, you’re goingto kind of publicly jump on that and and you’re helping them by being really public about it. That’s actually, what you can do to help them is to be in the background reach out to them, send them an email if you know who they are, you know, send them a phone call and say, what do you need ? Do you need more messages ? We have staff to do that, you know, do you need images ? We can give you some images, help them and give them the fuel to make their campaign strong and don’t feel like you need to step out in front of it. I mean, you want to provide the infrastructure and an ongoing support, but but i think we actually counterproductive if you stepped in and started dahna messaging within their peer-to-peer campaigns, right o for sure we’re going the merciful st makes people feel like, do you even really care about this ? Are you just doing itcause ? This organization had you right ? I’m injecting, it loses that, yeah, you lose the first piela the pier is now the non-profit non-profit to the person’s peers who are not their peers, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s too long a string to abbreviate you can no longer abbreviated ptp. So exactly and i think what’s important to remember to is that the path you think might be most obvious or even easiest may not be the past for them and that’s ok, if they want to really focus on email because that’s who they are and they, you know, send lots of e mails every day and that’s where they know people will open their e mail and read it don’t tell them they need to be tweeting, you know, don’t tell them they need to post on facebook whatever channel somebody’s most comfortable with let them go through that channel. And say, you know, instead of giving you really easy to use tweets, we will write, you know, paragraph chunks for you to use that are compelling that have links to resource is whatever it is that’s going to help them in their outreach on dh you just have to be flexible tete that. Yeah, again, it’s you know, it’s it’s offering support. I mean, the first p knows where the second piece all right, where they hang out. You know, they know my friends. I know my peers put it in the pdp what’s a good word. I was structure, but lexicon samson in the lexicon, you know ? So i know where my penis will like these hangout, so don’t don’t tell me what i gotta do. Of course not. You’re interfering and yeah, yeah, no, i’m great. Yeah, but peace that’s interesting. And i would love to put you on the spot in here. Your thoughts to tony is is the way that these kinds of campaigns justice we’re talking about really centering the people who are fund-raising and not the organisation. How that means they are different in the way that you recognize those donors and supporters. The way that you recognize the work of that campaign on the way that you take credit for those funds, i think there’s a lot of nuance in that give in the way that these campaigns often start the reasoned that people give to them versus give teo you as an organization. Right ? I think it’s important to remember people are giving to that campaign to that rage and not necessarily to you as an organization, even though they are giving he was an organization, right ? So how does that, you know, maybe require, as an organization, you have different practices for the way you recognize and think those donors and those supporters that maybe you do when you run other campaigns yourself ? Yeah, i don’t take well to being asked questions on my own show on your own. Show it sze tony martignetti non-profit radio way. You just made my voice crack. I’m so upset. I know i would say you i would say you need to defer to the to the first p the person who ran the campaign for you, i guess first. Are they willing to share contact info toe let you directly. Thank the donors. To the campaign, maybe one. That all depends. Where did those donations go ? Over there, where the donations happening on a platform where, you know the contact information with saves captured, renamed not you know, i think there’s a lot of kind of technical russians in there too. Okay ? But even if i did capture it on my e-giving form online, i still would ask the the person that person’s permission because they know their peers better, you know, then, you know, how would you feel ? Would you mind if we, uh, could we thank them ? Wei have the info, but we’re not going to use it unless you, you know, let us say something or could re send a message from you to them and, you know, maybe the two of us, right, send a combined thank you message. Maybe our ceo signs it and you sign it, you know ? So what i want that’s a really great idea for for some instances, because you’re then maintaining the same relationship you had during the campaign where your job is an organization was to give them what they needed. And now you’re reinforcing their leadership in the community by saying we’re going toe thank you. And if you would like to, you can pass on our message of things to your, you know, to the donors, but you’re kind of still putting them in the position as the leader instead of the organization. Yeah, yeah, they’re they’re in the lead. I mean, there, there. Yes. It’s there it’s there community that they were fund-raising from so, um, yeah, you wantto elevate them ? Absolutely, uh, that’s, my son and i think it’s also important. I mean, when we think about this, any kind of fund-raising campaign as list building and what that means for future cultivation, whether more donations, bigger donations or other actions, you know, kind of other ladders of engagement. I think there are a lot of instances in fund-raising jean situations where the people who feel kind of fired-up and are supporting that effort are doing it in the way that’s not visible to the organization, at least from a like database perspective, you know, they’re not signing up on the organization’s website. They’re not donating to the organization through a donation form that the organization has access to, so they’re not coming on to the list, but these are people who are fired-up and finding ways against through those leaders who are kind of calling their community action, too continue giving them more news, continue giving them updates even after the maybe donation phase of it is over, but not lose contact with those people and continue to go back to them to say, hey, you know, we got a million dollars, which is not unheard of in some recent examples of fund-raising, you know, we got a million dollars in a week it’s been a month here, the eighteen long years that we’ve hired, we just wanted to let you know, you know, or here’s work that’s happening because of this so that they continue to be in a place where there almost spokespeople for for that action now, and they are saying, hey, i just got this word from the organization, this has been the impact of what we did, and, you know, they get to be the ones sharing that news because you don’t have a way to connect with other people, so at least make sure you don’t lose contact with those that you d’oh, we got to take a ah last break. Text to give, you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving easy for your donors. If your donor’s consent a text, they could make a donation. We’re talking about that right now, it’s, part of your infrastructure, it’s simple, affordable, secure plus the ceo chadband oid very smart guy he spent set up a smart company um, it’s easy to get the info text npr for non-profit radio to four, four four nine nine nine npr to four, four, four, nine nine nine we’ve got several more minutes for fund-raising well, i’m very glad of within the sample ward would it was one thing i wanted to bring up is a question that has been brought up here at staff when we’re having conversations about this world of fund-raising jane and that is that you can’t anticipate when it’s gonna happen because of the news of the death everyday tension between, you know, you don’t really know what’s gonna happen in the world every day in advance. And what does that mean, given that it’s september right now, when people are probably have already done or at least starting to do now their end of year campaign planning ? So what ? Does it mean if you were, you know, done months of planning all this work ? You’ve launched your end of your campaign ? It’s ? You know, november, december, you’re running this end of your campaign. Something happens in the news. It’s that moment, you know, it’s okay, at least in my opinion, open tio what you may think, tony, but, you know, it’s okay to me, if that means your end of your campaign comes in way under goal and you stop tweeting about it because it may be more important to focus on this other angle where your community is fired-up in a different way, then continuing to almost compete with your community’s interests on, and i think that can be hard in the moment to say, oh, my gosh, we did all this work. We have all these goals and expectations are bored, you know, wants to do x y and z, and now we’re not gonna send this, you know, email out or something, but depending on, of course, you’re going to have to gauge what the community’s responses and all of that. But it may mean that you do let go of that end of your campaign. And that has to be okay. Maybe there’s a way to combine the two so that you know, so yeah. I mean, i definitely think it matters what the universe is, what the community is trying to campaign around. I think you could definitely, especially for your organization willing to do it. I have it in real time and make that end of your campaign talking points aligned with the communities, talking points, you know, if it’s not a huge departure from what you needed, what you needed to say anyway, that’s yeah, i agree. I mean, i would i would try toe message it so that you can you can take advantage of the the outrage. And and as you’re saying, you know, message it into your end of year, you know, it’s that it’s a tough one, because, i mean, i know a lot of listeners have small organizations with, like, one, two, three, staff people and, you know, end of year is like, you know, way may not make payroll if if we don’t do a certain amount in the in the fourth quarter or a lot, a lot of times, you know, like the month of december um, so it’s it’s hard, you know, you gotta yeah, i don’t think that you know, on the first tweet from a community member, you know, manage, stan, you’re not doing now, you’re doing it lightly, but i’m just, you know, i’m trying to balance the i’m trying to balance, you know, what’s not competing with your community, what your communities anger is and what they’re talking about. Versace, versace, you’re own your own messaging for the biggest campaign of your year. Um, i’m trying out for a lot of organizations that have a diverse fund-raising kind of palate with maybe online fund-raising and end of your fund-raising and major gift that it is just filters into maybe how you balance or prioritize amongst that grid, like maybe you say, okay, well, our online fund-raising focus will be supporting these community members who are tryingto lead some campaigns and, you know, are offline is just going to focus on our major donors, and they it might be an opportunity that they feel more compelled because now they see other people, you know, are coming coming to support the same organization that may be a lower financial level, but it still means something, so i think it’s really, about how it plays into the mix. Dahna yeah, yeah, i agree. I’m just considering the balance on a zai know how critical certain campaigns, whether it’s fourth quarter or not, you can be teo teo, people in to those organizations that are small, like i said, you know, one, two, three before employees, you know, i worry about making payroll and making, making rent payments that can that can keep you up at night, you know, you know, um, okay, we still got a couple minutes left. About two minutes or so left before we let you go. What else ? What else should we be talking about for two minutes ? Well, you know, i would be curious outside of on ly fund raging the ways that organizations are also using the news for, i don’t know howto turn raging into the end of other words, but, you know, these air really important moments for organizations for what we were talking about before, with this building and ad ad advil raging, i really committed to making raging part of the word, but, you know, finding ways where probably a little bit more on the fly, which is always hard for organizations, whether they’re bigger, small but finding ways to say, ok, this thing was said, here’s, how we feel about it, you know, do you stand with us something that doesn’t have to have any material outcome from it ? You’re now not, you know, producing an event or launching a program because you’ve said something but ways to get your community feeling like oppcoll they are with you, they know where you stand, you are getting that information back from them to be able to maybe segment your list really dynamically to say, wow, all of these people responded to this news item this day and, you know, these people didn’t that’s another wayto plan for cultivation later. So i think even if your community isn’t necessarily starting fund-raising campaigns for you or you’re not starting fund-raising campaigns in response to the news, you can still be using things that happen, whether they’re local or regional, are at a federal level, help you get more information about who your supporters are, what they care about, how they, how they came to sign up for you so that you can again better reach out to them. But think about your list before you start sending out fund-raising messages later. Yeah, it’s, not it’s, not all about fund-raising wait, we’re gonna leave it there and you say the word you’ll find her at amy rs ward and just follow her for god’s sake. You see all this wisdom ? Get it on twitter at amy or it’s war and also amy sample word dot org’s. Thank you so much, amy. Thanks, tony, my publisher. Next week, jean takagi returns with his take on donor advised funds if you missed any part. Of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr too for for for nine, nine, nine. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Nothing. Cubine hi, are you interested in blockchain technologies and cryptocurrencies ? Then tune in here on talk radio. Got n y c with me, david every friday, eleven a, m twelve p, m eastern time. As we answer your questions and interview, great guests live on internet radio on building the blockchain where you can catch the blockchain revolution. You’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in something potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dot. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz

Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2018: Your Website Redesign & Overmarketing

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Oren Levine, Lisa Ghisolf, & Emily Patterson: Your Website Redesign
It’s your step-by-step guide to a website makeover. Let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Oren Levine with International Center for Journalists; Lisa Ghisolf with GizmoCreative Factory; and Emily Patterson, founder of BeeMeasure.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Overmarketing
Amy Sample WardIt drives Amy Sample Ward bananas. Let’s talk through her issues and preventative measures. She’s our social media contributor and the CEO of NTEN, Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

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Oh, hi, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a habit ood if you told me the dull idea that you missed today’s, show your website redesign it’s your step by step guide to a web site makeover let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is orin levine with international centre for journalists. Lisa gets off with gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measure and over marketing it drives amy sample ward bananas let’s talk through her issues she’s, a social media contributor and the ceo of n ten non-profit technology network i told you to, i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p well, you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give amglobal donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here is your website, redesigned from non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re hosted by the non-profit technology network, coming to you from new orleans in the convention center. This interview, like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, i guess now are orin levine, lisa gets off and emily patterson, or in his director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa is founder and creative director at gizmo creative factory, and emily patterson is founder. Be measured that’s b e like the insect welcome buy-in. Your seminar topic is gourmet taste on a pizza budget. Tackling a website, we design for small non-profits, and i noticed that in your session description, use the word small three times. That’s perfect for non-profit radio because our twelve thousand listeners are in small and midsize non-profits. So i don’t have to admonish you or remind you even taylor, your comments too small and midsize or no, i don’t, because it’s, you’re right, it’s in your dna, it’s in the dna of your workshop topic, anyway, get carried away. Personal. Okay. What what are the challenges? Let’s, start down there with emily on the far end? What are the challenges with website redesign? Hyre? Definitely, i compare website redesigns, teo doing laundry, at least at my house. Okay, that it’s something where it feels like you put all this work into it, and then when you’re done well, there’s a whole new basket of laundry, and you need to start all over again. Yes, it’s, a project that it could take over here and then it’s. You know, another year passes by and it’s, time to start redesigning your website all over again, because technology and trends change so frequently, something you have constantly have to keep up with. What do you part of what you described way? Have you done your workshop yet, or it’s coming? No it’s tomorrow at one thirty and that’s a preparation for you? Okay, she’s like a batting range, putting, putting green. I don’t know too much. I don’t be doing sports analogies that that was a mistake i don’t anything about. I don’t know anything about either of those sports, football or tennis, so okay, what do you need? What do you need to have in place? Could we start with you? Lisa, can you could you adjust that one? What do you need to let in place? But think about before you embark on hiring someone to do it or doing it in house? What do you need to think about? You really have to think about weirder site is now and if it’s working for you and if you comptel, if it’s working for you, since we generally have analytics, but also are you getting the results that you want out of it? Are your constituents getting what they need out of it all of that kind of thing? And then it’s just improving upon what you have if its content or design usability, all of those things, okay? Or you want to add wear at the pre stage now, exactly. And this is in some ways where the small comes in, because one of things your back of your mind is, is what resource is do you have realistically to approach the project, which will probably be less resource is than you would love to have? Especially if you know you’re looking at other websites and say, oh, i’d love to have a website like name your large corporation here and because you’re not small non-profit you can’t. And in addition to the questions, lisa was passing one of the question, in fact, you need to ask is, you know, why do i have a website at all? You know, it’s really gets down to what am i doing? I’m murcott what’s the purpose why do i want people to visit me in the web but who’s coming to visit? What do i want them to do when they get there? And by being really careful about asking those questions that helps you match what you could do there to the limited budget you’re going toe? How do you overcome this stick of the orange? How do you overcome not knowing what could do? It is not your site is not doing it now, but it could, but but you don’t know. What it could do because you’re not already exploiting that. How do you feel that gap, that knowledge gap? Well, it’s ah, sort of a balance between what what it’s already doing, what it could do and what you wanted to do. And a lot of what we talked about in our own organization was trying to distill down of all of our laundry list or went backto the laundry analogy, a laundry list, emily’s basket wish list of all the things you wanted to do or could do or might do an ideal world. It’s really important to try to focus down on a few very, very critical things that you want the website to do. Focus your efforts there that both helps focus the minds of the people who are responsible for the website and then focusing your budget on a realistic set of goals you can achieve. So you might brainstorm and then and then and then focus exactly two realities. Okay, okay. See about something else you pledged to cover in your workshop. Hold your feet to the fire. Think about who to hire. Whether you need is who wants to take this one first? Whether. Whether you need expertise, we don’t necessarily have to go in line. One, two, three, three, two, one, which i don’t i don’t like that, but we can now for now anyway. There’s soup for now, but i’ll bring it up if we keep up with us whether whether you should a lot of small orcs probably do need help, right, then we’re gonna need some technical help. This website project definitely on dh speaking as a designer and developer, generally i come in when they don’t have those resource is on staff, or if those people are overwhelmed and speaking to lauren’s point, sometimes you can brainstorm with those people and find out exactly new things that you may not be aware of ways that you can integrate databases better, etcetera on improving communication. So, you know, so much of it is just what you’re re sources are and what you’re willing to put forth. So you’re often in the role of having tio make the expectations fit the budget. Yes, we can’t do that yet. I know you would love to, but if you want to do these other things that you said were playing top three priorities. And we can’t do this. You can’t have six priorities. Yeah, i’m a big believer in phase development, so if you could do it in six months, then we’ll do it in six months when it’s more feasible. Okay, how do you, uh, how do you message that reduction down, too of reality when it when you’re talking to the ceo executive director? Oh, gosh, i mean, i basically put it the exact same way that we can do this in six months. We can still make it happen with the budget that you have, but if you want to put more towards that, then of course, we could make plenty of things happening now, so okay, so bring it down. Arika money. Yes. Way to spread it out. You can have it, but it’s gonna take longer. Okay? In fact, one of the things we talked about in the session is sort of tricks. I learned i was emily start going out orders don’t get going out at one point, i want i want to head over to emily because she’s really the expert on how to manage to ceo seo, i’d better let her speak for that. I’m not going sequence. I don’t want you to continue, okay? My my one question is that one of the now now a great host, it’s time for a break, pursuing their newest paper is pursuing e-giving outlook it’s a roundup of all the fund-raising data that you need, they took the latest fund-raising reports boiled them down to the essentials into a concise content paper, plus there’s a video archive of the weapon, or that they did around this whole subject. It’s, an ensemble piece, paper and webinar both on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now, back to your website redesign say something talk emily yeah, it was like they had a message to you, ceo message manage expectations about the top level uh, so i think one of the things that people don’t realize, especially at the top level around website redesigns is just yeah, how much, how much work and how much? And thus time and money is involved, and i think having teo yeah, message and set expectations around that is a big challenge buy-in vices that i’ve worked and now in a zoo independent consultant, my point of contact is typically, you know, you’re marketing director or your communications person who have, who handles all of communications and all of fund-raising so kind of a mid level person and being able to work with them to help them set expectations with there with their boss around the web website, because i think a lot of a lot of executive directors, you know, they’re a little bit detached from the project and, you know, they’re looking online, and they’re seeing all of this awesome stuff that other organizations or, you know, even for-profit companies are able to dio and they don’t realize, you know how much time and money needs to go into that. I’m going to pick up on on emily’s point, that becoming the position of being the non-profit that’s working with cos, you know, we were designing the web site, and one of the things we try to make sure of is we knew internally in our own organization who who is responsible to make the final decision so that, you know, family’s talking the communications director, she needs to know that when the communications director says we’re not going to do this, then hearst boss is not going to come down two weeks later and say, well, actually, we are let’s keep that anyway, because that’s, how you lied to basically blowing your budget and changing your plans. So it’s, very important as an organization is a nonprofit taking on the project to be clear in advance. Who are the decision makers? Who are the real stakeholders, who is going to make the decisions and who needs to stay out of the way? That’s perfect. So who should be let’s? Go to you family? Who should be part of this design team? I mean, i think having one clear a person who is ultimately one person is in charge. Yes, having been in the position where three people are making the decision, you know that doesn’t really work. So ultimately one person has to have the final say. So we are we are not doing this, but i think lots of people should be involved and be able to have their input because you will otherwise get in this situation. Where oranges years, months later i don’t know. How’d we get this? Yes or no? You roll that definitely derail your project. If all of a sudden you had someone pop up and say hey, what happened? Teo x y z i thought we were doing this, and then as a consultant to be the person who says, oh, sorry, that’s not in the budget, i think it’s so we need to think through in the beginning stages, who are the stakeholders? So but with the web, but at our website affects everybody. Lisa, how do we decide whose we can’t have too many people in the process? I already said that how do we decide who should be part of this process and who should be sidelined? A big part of that for me is design theory. Tio it’s basically starting off with talking to all of the people who are going to be using the site. So if it’s one person from the board, one person from the staff, one actual end user, et cetera, and they don’t necessarily have to be people who are involved in the decision making part of it. But fighting out how they actually use the site and how they would like to use the site and how it all fits into the overall organization makes a huge difference in the end result and how successful it is, okay or anything you want to add to this? Yeah. And that’s another reason why inside the organisation it helps to have somebody you can sort of manage some of those relationships internally in some ways be a bridge between the organization and the external party. I in some ways fulfill that role in my organization. I’m not responsible for the site, partially because i have experiences a web product manager, i’m ableto some ways mediate, i suppose, between some of the internal forces intentions and our external external vendors, and that makes life easier for them because they have fewer people to talk to, and we’re clear decision making it makes life easier for us and that we’re able to resolve some of our issues ideally before we start having to pay for it’s going to more detail on this, managing the contractors or contractor whatever that is doing the process. Emily, you’ve got something you want. I was going to say that i think having your communications director or someone at that level lead the project is a good call because they’re in a role where they khun both understand more closely, like the technical side of what we’ll need to go into this because they’re close enough. To the project, where they might be in a role where they’re updating the website. But then there also. Removed a little bit from it and more into the business side of things where they can understand the bigger picture and the business decisions and the important role that stakeholders play. Where i think if you put the website in the i t department and have that management come from that side, they might spend more time kind of focused on how is everything working exactly and ignore the business side of war on the into the code? Okay, okay, let’s, let’s talk more about managing the contract with doing this project for us out. How do you? How do you like to be managed? I don’t like to be managed, but well, essentially the biggest thing is always communication on both ends of it and setting expectations. Some people love to talk only via email, some are i need to get on the phone with you to make you understand this and it’s an inter generational thing, it’s just it’s. Everybody certainly has different feelings on that bye, setting up expectations of how often we’re going to talk, how we’re going to talk, how we’re going to be managing all of these assets, all of these things that makes things so much easier down the line, and you don’t have developers who disappear or gaps in knowledge where well, we have no idea where we’re hosted right now, which is a huge deal, because so many people don’t really know all their passwords and everything. So let’s, let’s move to something else that you were are going to cover tomorrow. Use of data, you said data tio dr better flew and better engagement. Who’s the everybody plays family, right? Emily, you’re got two thumbs pointing to you. Yes. Yeah. That’s. The data portion of it is really my specialty. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about what the stakeholder they wrote to me in for the stakeholder section because i had had this other presentation that oren saw where it was about using data to kind of manage people’s personalities, but definitely needed to manage personnel. That was that was different. There was somewhere else. Yeah. Is that another? Another kind of interested? Okay, about how you can take the day that you collect and then use it. Tio appears the different sort of questions and issues that pop with your different stakeholders, but definitely before you embark on your redesigned some suggestions about, you know what sorts of data people should look at, a lot of it depends on what sorts of issues pop up with your various people who are involved. I really kind of feel like there’s kind of three basic types of issues that it will happen, you know, there’s the sort of person who doesn’t you might have it from your executive director or from another person, your organization, they don’t necessarily want to spend any money, so helping to make the case that we need to make this investment and we need to invest in better technology, you can use your your google analytics user testing surveys a variety of different things to get a good picture of what’s going on with your audience because who’s using your website is not necessarily reflecting the needs of the person using your website isn’t reflecting. You know the needs of the people in your audience, they’re not in your office, they’re not the same. Okay, what else about data? I’m so you also get the person who is has all the fun ideas, maybe, you know, reads a lot of things. Online about the latest trends, and we need to have this widget and that widget and helping them get a good perspective on, you know, what’s really going on with our users where we really having problems with our site right now that definitely need to be fixed in the in the redesign, you can use google analytics things like back-up they have a funnel feature to see you. Nowhere in your process is people you’re losing people dropping out, leaving your side, and then i love surveys and user testing as a way to hear from riel people how frustrating it is for them to use certain functions on your website. So who would you send those surveys to? Is that that cut across all your constituents metoo donors, board members, people who are engaged, engaged with your programs, receiving your service is all those people get survey like that? It depends. I’ve done ones on the website, which i think are nice. Google has ah, very low cost pop up sort of survey you may have seen them before that you can answer a couple questions, and then there’s typically kind of an open end response, which is a great source for people’s france. Ok, things are kind of questions. Do we ask? You can certainly ask about user rolls if you want. If it’s important for you and your your website to understand who’s used what constituency you would word it this way, but what constituency they fit into. We’re delivering services, etcetera. Okay. What? What else do you want to find out? That’s? Fine, but you could totally keep it super simple. And just as something like, you know, what brings you to the site today? Are you satisfied with your experience? If not, you know what recommendations do you have for us? Those three questions? I think we’ll get you a good picture of what’s going on. I mean, i’ve had guests on who say the best survey is, like, five fewer questions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so short is not problematic. It all it’s preferred? Yeah, especially if you you know, you’re kind of you’re popping up at them. They’re coming to your sight because they’re trying to do something else. So you want to keep the survey short because you’re kind of interrupting their experience? What else can wait? Talk about around this? You’re going, you’re going to feel ninety minutes tomorrow. Well, let me add another more point about data again. I’m coming at this from persuaded emily. So i thought the data when emily stop, okay or you can talk about data. Whenever we took a breath, i thought that was the end of the day that i could talk for days about data e talking about okay, just the one small point i wanted to make again back to managing expectations, it’s away to also manage expectations your stakeholders had about people who are wedded to. We’ve always had this section on the website i love this information is valuable and it’s useful to be able to go to analytic state and say twenty, people visited this page in the last five years. We don’t need it. Okay? Spell, myth it’s also a legacy pages that people are tied to strongly, but nobody else cares it’s also testing out processes to like, how long does it take someone to actually make a donation or to find the volunteer form or something like that? Does it take to long for them to get there and they get tired of it? And they just leave, or does the executive director have an idea that they love this particular feature, but no one’s clicking on it or they wantto accident actually everyone’s clicking on it. And we don’t know that unless we actually get true user data, so it helps it. A lot of scenarios are based in reality. You know, the numbers no like yeah. All right. Uh, okay, so we still have you just took it five or six minutes together. What else can we talk about on this topic website? Redesigned. You promised a step by step guide. We missed any step. Well, there’s, plenty of stuff. Cemetery. Alright, so name some names, something we haven’t talked about it content auditing of your current site. So actually, i’m going to cut you off there, like three or four sessions ago, we talked about content, name another one and another step way of linking on it that we haven’t talked a lot of sessions, police about post launch care and the whole yeah, because to me kind of the laundry analogy to but to me, a website is a living, breathing thing. And just because you’re done with it, because it launched does not mean that it is done. You need to keep feeding that for google to pay attention to and for your users to pay attention to. You also need to be aware of the ongoing costs of maintaining the site and keeping it secure. Ilsen and already you have a laundry. Now you wanna bring laundry and maybe a lot of what you want. I’m thinking more about sort of laundry all of a sudden, you know, chris created out of no where in your hamper, because what happens is part of the consequence. If you’ve been really successful, i think in managing expectations and limiting the scope of your redesign and coming up with a very clean site, that means there are going to be items that fell off the must have list that are now on the might have list or nice to have list, but after launch that’s an opportunity to sort of incrementally add in some of the things you may have wanted to do earlier as budget becomes available. That’s part of what lisa was saying about it’s, an ongoing project not only maintenance but ongoing improvement i remember, but i used to work at a large non-profit before people with sort of a background in your television program, you would say that keep iooking cleanse the website done, and i think least i mentioned at the beginning of our talk it’s never done that’s an ongoing lisa, do you see? Oh, our emily also commonalities around things that people want but don’t really need or, you know, durney generalities about things that they say is a top priority, but really it’s, not any any generalizations you could make around that. How about home paint sliders? I was just thinking that way, but everybody loves big sliders, right? No one clicks on them. They really don’t know. They don’t stop it to go back. So many guys attract many home page sliders. Yes, they get teo slide too, i think. Yeah, they and then they go to what they really want. Okay, i think people, maybe this is at least as different impressions. But i think there’s just too much emphasis and too many politics around the home page and what goes on on the home page because most sites people are coming in sideways, you get a lot of people coming in. From search, especially if your sight is well designed and has, you know, all the ceo best practices. People will come in to your bog post or to your content pages, and they’ll never see your home page. And so in projects i’ve been involved with, the home page gets very political and can stall things. Okay, that’s, old thinking that everybody’s coming directly to our our main, our main domain. And everybody wants a piece of it. Yes, there’s a lot of fighting about. Okay, so you are generalizing about okay, george, as i was going to bring this up before, but yeah. There’s a lot of oh, you know, my department needs to go on the home page. This is very important. Very important to this organization. All right, all right. What else could we were going to flush out? A little bit more? Got another couple minutes left. What one thing is, i was going to advise i came up with a bunch of sort of tips and tricks. If you’re inside the organizations that have ways too, to keep your stakeholders, i was going to use the word under control. But that’s a bit of a loaded term, but back to the prioritization, you know, prioritization is really critical, you know, making those choices about what you want to do and there’s been lots of cases in several projects i’ve worked on when you know your stakeholders might have a long list of things they want to do. And as somebody who’s running a project it’s really important to learn how to say pick one really focuses the mind i sway for, you’re not going to need that. That sort of thing to really help helps sort of focus the issue. Everybody gets one right, you could. You could name as many as you like, but you’re gonna get one priority. Okay, okay, yeah buy-in talking to clients. I used to say to people, you know, we can do this, you know, or we could do this and that response, wass, what can we do both. So i have learned to rephrase it and say, here are three options, pick one, okay. We asked what you, uh so what do you love about the work that you do? You know, organizations i work within cos they’re so wide ranging that it always amazes me what you can learn, what you can pick up and all of the commonalities of them too, you know, there there’s so many things that they’re all trying to get across, even if they’re a tiny little organization. So it’s, um, and making a difference with it with the actual and product from what they can about you are what you love about this work. I think what’s really interesting about the work is one year’s going setting off on a website redesign you think you’re doing a technology project, and it almost inevitably ends up being a management project because i think we’ve alluded to it before that the company’s your organization’s website is really related to how it’s organised how the organization works and you end up sometimes having more conversations about how the organization works and how we’re running on what our strategies then, about technology, about the actual some introspection. Okay, emily, i’m gonna give you ten or fifteen seconds. What do you like? What you love about this work your work about the work that i d’oh. I mean, i like that it’s always changing. I specialize in data stuff and it’s a field that’s constantly evolving. So i like that aspect of being able teo, keep up on it and always be just like our websites. Yeah, conley evolving. Always changing. Never finished. All right, they’re orin levine, director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa lisa it’s. A guess off. Yeah. Sounder and creative. Director of gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measured. Thanks so much for being with us. I think this interview like all of them here it eighteen ntc sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with non-profit video coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps for pete’s sake, talk to you. Eat huge tomb. You know the man. You heard him on our four hundred show. Did he sound high pressure to you? Of course not. He sounded like the gentleman that he is gentlemanly and professional. Check out the farm of course. Got to do your due diligence. Do your research weinger cps dot com then pick up the phone. Talk to you, wagner, cpas dot com then moved to real life now tony steak too it’s finger wagging time. I want you to plan ahead so that you make time don’t just look for it try to find it. You make time for yourself yourself over labor day weekend time alone, its restorative you heard last week steve rio talk about thie the benefits throughout your day of of mindfulness and presence, and even maybe ah meditation for a couple of minutes. I mean, they do virtual meditations of bright webb, he said, every day for five minutes, take time for yourself. Make time for yourself over labor day weekend, even if even if part of it is a nap. It’s restorative, you’re in e-giving profession you give you give, you have to be a little selfish and take make that time for yourself wagging my finger and there’s a little bit more on that in the video at tony martignetti dot com what a pleasure to have amy sample ward back. She is our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network her most recent court third book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample board, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. Welcome back, amy. I think having me back, it’s always a pleasure. You’re always you’re always welcome back. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Should be a surprise to you. We always work well, i hope that you’ll let me know if i get cut from the roster will stop taking your calls. Know that we’ll have to wait on the phone. I’ll call in with a different say. I have a question to make up a different name. All right. Um, we’re talking about over marketing over marketing. This is a, uh, a bothersome thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think it’s probably bothersome to everyone. That’s. Why it’s not successful? Yeah, it’s. In the long run, it annoys people and they turn off. Okay, i think that’s true. You know, maybe we’ll look att cem symptoms of over marketing so that you can do some self assessment. I think it’s it’s, probably one of these things is much easier to see in other people which may be coming totally right. I think it’s definitely hard to self diagnose your organization as an over marketer and instead very easy to look at other communications, other websites, what have you and feel like? Oh my gosh. You know and just to be clear, when i say over market and maybe this is a point of clarification between the two of us, i am curious how you define it. But for me, over marketing is when you market everything equally instead of choosing as an organization what your priorities are. Okay, so it seems very scattershot the marketing then from that those kinds of organizations very scattershot, everything is equally urgent. Everything is equal, equally impactful. Everything is, you know equally the thing that you want people to do right, then yeah. Okay, interesting might might my sense of it is it’s it’s i’m more looking at the frequency you know, if i get too many emails too many if i see your twitter you know, blowing up my twitter stream you know, i see i see too much from you it’s it’s too much it well in however, you define the time but e i’m seeing too much, um, well, and i think that that frequency piece could is, you know, one of the ways that over marketing manifest, because you could also say that it, um, you know, separate from frequency, it could just be type it could be that you are just like your web site is, you can’t even navigate it because every single thing has to have its own space on your home page that’s the call to action and whatever, you know, there’s different ways that it might manifest, but frequency certainly is a big one. Ok? And christie’s bleed over. I mean, you know, if your if your website has everything is an equally high priority, then that’s the trouble you were, you know, that’s, the trouble that you’re that bothers you the most is that every everything is urgent going on and everything has a page, every page is called action. You know, his first came to me as an idea because someone sent me an email with i printed it. It’s literally the the email signature is a half a page and i did not printed in eighteen point five i put it in twelve point fund. A very reasonable size. I’m this person’s email signature is a half takes up a half a page, right? I’m sure that the emails they’re sending two people are, you know, a very reasonable, like hi, tony, and then a couple sentences and thanks so much. And yet their signature is three times that. Yeah, yeah. Or more. It’s, you know, there’s itt’s. Well, i gave it away. It’s a he you know, it’s it’s it’s filled up with i mean there’s like zoho linked in you are el there’s a well there’s there’s web sites. There’s a you are elves, but then they’re not linked. And then separately there’s www the length number one w w was like number two and number three and there’s the mailing address and there’s. Ah, fax number off a twenty eighteen a fax number on then there’s and then there’s some congratulate, you know, self promotion stuff about anniversaries. How long he’s been in different lines of business and it’s it’s a half a page. So that’s what? Put this on my radar? You know, i guess i’ve subconsciously i’ve probably been thinking noticed it certainly, but tio got into my consciousness and i asked you about it and you said, whoa drives me crazy. So so here we are here we are. I’m just commiserating in the things that drives, but it’s for a good purpose, we’re helping where i’m not complained, my larry david, i’m not i’m not complaining, i’m helping, but, you know, what’s so interesting to me about that, like, the starting place where this conversation is that so many organizations, i don’t think, ever think about the signature line of there down both from the perspective that that, uh, i mean, that’s, you know, hundreds if you count all of your different staff, hundreds of messages a day to community members that could be reinforcing your organization’s brand or voice or mission having a standard, you know, signature block for everyone in your staff that, you know, great, everybody has the right information there, we probably don’t need to list our fax machine, you know, for all of those things because i see so many times where you know, one person, one organization writes at one way another person you can’t they don’t have a signature block, all you see is like, thanks, amy and me, but who? Are you, you know, co-branded spectrum that’s a missed place for just reinforcing the brand of the organization, but so few organizations know that you’re their signature block is kind of a passive called toe action space. Um, and at intend, we test that and we have a we use our goal for non-profits account, and that allows us if anyone listening uses the google suite for your organizations, you have, you know, females, you know, you could just administer as an organization what everyone’s you could add, like a call to action at the bottom of of the signature, and you don’t have to worry that some staff forgot to put it in, like, you could just administer that, and it is immediately in place for all of your emails, and we change that regularly, but we also track that and, you know, there are people that click on that signature link where we’re promoting that and you see and actually click through and register. So it is a place to call people to action. It is not necessarily a place to successfully call them toe action with eighteen different things that you’re saying, you know, it needs to just be one and have it be something that’s actually relevant to why you’re emailing people vs maybe, you know, links all of these different awards and promotions. You actually test different signatures. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Eminently doable. Eminently testable. You know us, we test everything. Okay. That’s, you technology network? Yes. Bonem all right. So let’s, let’s encourage some self assessment. We just have about a minute or so before before taking the first break. Um, i thought of i thought of some symptoms that you might that that that maybe hitting you in the face if you’re if your engagement numbers are declining, if you’re if you’re of actual follower numbers or connections, if that’s, you know, if people are dropping off that way, so i thought of either one of those, you know, people might still be following you, but they’re not engaging that’s, that’s bad or they might just stop following you or being connected. No thing can in fact, tonight, adam a nuance to those numbers. Certainly it’s healthy to have people stop following you on twitter or toe unsubscribes miree male because it means people are reading it and it no longer, you know the priority in their life, it’s not the topic that they care about it’s. Fine, you don’t need to feel bad of someone on subscribe to the newsletter but that’s the point you’re making tony is that if you are getting in ten people unsubscribes sections one new person subscribing then your ratio is a little off you want tohave, you know more people continuing to subscribe. Then you have a fall back off. Thank you for refining my point. Thank you. I mean, i mean that generally we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us enough with the talis moughniyah. Lt’s you’ve heard them. You’ve heard them from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, those charities air getting that revenue each month that long tail you’ve heard the talis moughniyah, lt’s from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing. I bet you could use more revenue. Tell us long stream of revenue. You know how this works? You refer cos they take on tell owes you the non-profit get fifty percent of the revenue from those fees. Watch the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now. Back to amy sample board. Thank you for that indulgence. Yes. All right. So, indeed, big numbers, you know, that’s bad and unsustainable. You know, you’ve got your tenant followers a day and one new follower, your that’s that’s, not sustainable. Um, let’s. See, um, if you i thought you know how about reading your own stuff reading your own to spend a little time romping through your own, you know, your own twitter stream your own instagram, facebook, these things boring you your own website, have you read? Have you read the last a couple of weeks of content on your website? A few if you have something that’s regularly updated that that often does it bore you? I would say that’s a bad somebody i think what’s interesting about that suggestion and that so many people we’ll overlook is that we, of course i have read all of it listed it, right? So the idea that we would go back and look at it feels like some time wasted because, of course we wrote those tweets. Are we, you know, posted those pictures? Never, but the value in what you’re suggesting is not look at any of those. Single post it’s look your feed without looking at your whole timeline or whatever, right? Like, just look at for twitter, profile and all the content in order that’s been posted or your instagram profile or your website, because that’s where you can really start to see from your followers perspective or your community’s perspective. Whoa, you know, this is this is what it felt like, or this is what it sounded like. I think that’s something we don’t do often enough it’s organizations because we don’t feel like we need to, because we’ve already reviewed all that content when we posted it individually. Yeah, we wrote it ourselves see, this is this is why you’re an author, co author of two books, and i’ve never written a book because you you put a finer point on it. No, i’m the shallow guy, i got this idea and then you refine it, give it depth and meaning and eso like on the comic book writer, and you’re the you’re the writer of books that actually get published by, you know, by well known publishing companies. Yeah, but i haven’t even done one of those yet. Yeah, ok. Er and you just and i’ve been thinking about it, and you just heard it. And you you put you put, you add depth and, uh, greater meaning to it. So thank you. What a team. You know, good teamwork. Yeah, work. If i didn’t have this show, you could because, you know, i don’t think you need me to get started, but i need you to add the depth and the color enough beating myself up. Okay. Um, no. I’m having fun doing it. So what are you? Nobody. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so nobody here’s the nobody here is the self loathing. Oh, that’s not true. Thousands of people listening. Yes. Don’t remind everybody said you have more in your list in this moment. Don’t remind me more of my list more my list. What of these of these things? I have more. I have things on my list. I can add, um, i have one more staff complaints if the staff, if the staff is feeling that their content is you know, however, they describe stale o r, you know, repetitive. You want to pay a lot of attention to that because they’re the ones producing the content. So if staff or if you’re hearing from staff, i think that’s a bad sign, what do you what do you have totally eye? You know, now i feel obligated to add depth and color all of your suggestions, but the piece that i would add there is i feel like it’s, not just staff saying that it’s repetitive, but the conversations that you might over here amongst your staff that are kind of like a warning sign warning flag that you’re maybe doing over marketing is when people are saying, you know, i’m marketing this in someone else’s say, no, the postcards you know, went out yesterday for this someone else, eh? Zoho on twitter were saying that you have people, you know, you’re cross team isn’t talking about the same thing, then you’re probably doing, you know, equal parts promotion of five different things at once and that just naturally not going to be a successful your community members can’t take in five different request to do something that are different and actually do them all for you. Very bad sign if there’s conflicting messages across your across your team, i thought it was this i thought this was the priority, right? Okay, what else? What else do you have on your symptom symptom list? Well, i don’t have as many symptoms. I have a list that’s, more like things that you khun d’oh. Okay, um, yeah, okay, we could switch over there. I’m game for some guests. I would say you’re not a baby, we can talk about a few things underneath is i really liked the idea for organizations, you know, of course, we all know that we should have, like, a content calendar and marketing plan and all of these things. But the reality is i’m going toe just operate within reality that we don’t have those things or we have them and they’re not updated or or or whatever. So instead of saying, oh, just go finish off that editorial calendar that you should have instead of that recommendation, i’d say just pick a team. It could be every month it could be based on certain weeks that, you know, we’re leading up to events, whatever. And having a team i think, really helps people across the organization, you know, in whichever team there in know that they can still talk about their team. Or their program or their service. But do it in a way that still aligned and advancing whatever over our james focus organizationally needs to be the priority. So it maybe we can use in ten for an example. Course i could speak to that, so we might say, ok, this month’s needs to be focused on the ntc, but we still have membership campaigns that happened, we still have course promotions that need to happen, you know, where there’s still all this other work, but we don’t need to be saying register for the nbc become a member. Sign up for this course that’s happening next week, you know, apply for this program because that’s not going that’s, where we get into the half a page email signature, you know, someone said saint arthur, steam is auntie si lets people say culwell instead of just talking about membership, i’ll talk about how members engaged at the ntc instead of just talking about, of course, next week, i’ll say this course has a similar topic at the mtc, and this is a way for you to continue your learning. You know, it just gives people more oven umbrella that they can talk about their programs while still staying. Kind of on message. Okay, yeah. I can i can i can toss out one for recommendation, and that is to put yourself on your own lists, make sure that you are seeding yourself so that you’re seeing the feed, the posts, hearing the podcast, whatever it is the same way, same frequency as everybody else. Yeah, and then had a way to do that. It’s not just getting your own organizations emails, because to your point, there are lots of different channels were using in ten does this and i’ve talked to a number of our other organizations who do this, too, whether you use black, which is kind of an internal messaging tool, or you have an internet or whatever tool you’re using for kind of internal content and conversation. Most of those tools there’s probably a way where you can have your organization’s account, your twitter account, instagram show up in there and that way you have essentially, you know, one channel in slack or whatever you used that just is showing all of your tweets, so not only can you see when a tweet has gone out, but what it was about, and then you can very easily scroll through and say oh, my gosh, way! Look at what we have been saying or what we haven’t been saying or whatever on dh you don’t have to say, okay, now everyone on staff has to create a twitter account and go follow the organization and check it every day. You can just pull it into a central system so everyone can see it. I see. Excellent. Okay, okay. She’s, the co author times two. Amazing. All right, let’s, take another break. Okay, let me take a break text to give you’ll get more revenue because text to give makes e-giving easy for your donors. If your donors can send a text message, they could make a donation to u not only simple also affordable and secure the way to get more info and to claim your special listener offer you text npr two, four, four, four, nine nine nine couldn’t be any simpler. Npr. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine we’ve got about six more minutes for over marketing with amy um, we run really medicine, okay? Please go ahead. So this suggestion is coming from a place where at and ten, we have definitely seen return on the work, but also in recognition that if you’re if you’re organization is suffering from over marketing, you’re already putting in the time to do a bunch of work so let’s just move that work to something else, and that is the idea of promo, okay, it’s, not just for your big annual fundraiser or, you know, once a year event for anything programs for things that are year round, even creating again, you’re already doing this work because you’re already over marketing, so instead of putting it all out as an organization, all the work you did to come up with those tweets or those block post or whatever put them into, you know, a a shared document or a wiki or google doc or whatever, and instead of sharing them on your own feed, share them with community members that can that are interested in that that maybe participate in that program before whatever that they want to be out in the community scene is talking about your work and promoting it and it’s still getting out there. People are still hearing about your programs, but you aren’t saying okay, well, our twitter feed today is going to have to cover all ten of these topics you say today we’re covering this topic, but we know that we’ve supported community members and they have access to these promo kits. Tio help us spread the word excellent using yes using your most dedicated constituents, friends, followers sort of a back channel way of getting them to help you promote board members boardmember could be idea for that, right? Okay, are for sure, all right, i’m going to get one out because i know you’re going to say it, i’m gonna get out first, okay? If you feel you’re over marketing on promoting your own work, share the work of others instead. So the obvious, you know, sharing on facebook, facebook shares, they’re so they’re so rare. Now facebook shares please share other people’s content obviously twitter, the re tweets on twitter or you go or spend that time going out and finding, you know, curating the content of others and sharing that because, you know, it’s relevant to your community. I know you’re going to say that yes, well and i think something to remember to when when you’re thinking about content and mixing it up so that it isn’t just you talking. About the thing that you want people to do over and over, another place where you could look to content in addition to sharing, of course, you know that i’m always going to say, share other people’s work and rise up the community is just as you are doing, too be the one that reminds your community that they can take a break, that they can have fun, that the world is really hard, it feels right now, and so much is going on, and we’re always asking our community to take action to support us, whether it’s fund-raising or advocacy or local actions. But maybe you are also building community and building trust with them by being the voice that says, you know, we hope that you take a saturday off and just be with your family or go to the zoo her, you know, go for a hike and and you aren’t always calling them toe action that you’re also treating them as full people that need to take a break and be healthy too. Yeah, that space space critical. We had steve rio on last week talking a lot about that he’s. Interesting do you know, do you know steve rio, bright webb? I don’t know. And i know i heard he’s, based in vancouver. Andi has twenty five employees. Maybe that includes contractors, but they’re all over north america. Very interesting. Okay. Um, they do. They have. They have virtual meditations. You probably heard me or not. Uh, not not mandatory optional, but they do a forty five minute virtual meditation every day a couple times a week. Sorry. Three times, three times a week? Um, yeah, i think yeah. Mindfulness, you know, presence. Oh, and, you know, there’s there’s research that shows that that that helps you be be more efficient in your in your workday. Um, every sample would really have, like, two minutes left. Um, you have another. You wantto recommend something else. If you feel you’re over marketing, do you have another recommendation? While the other piece that i was going to suggest is kind of the office that and that is just in case there are listeners who are, like, no, our problem is that we never marketed anything we never, you know, actually promote ourselves because it’s all you know, maybe they’re your web site is is just kind of content, because your programs or your round and you don’t feel like you have timely things, so if somehow you are on the opposite end of the conversation and feel like you need more help finding ways teo to market, i would say, just look through whether that’s, your social media accounts, your website, whatever and look for those empty spaces places that i think organizations could really take advantages putting in in their twitter bio or their instagram bio, or whatever that you know, a girl that shows up right there and the short kind of narrative box you have to write something, put what feels more like a timely kind of a call to action or reference a campaign that you’re running or whatever that is, and put a girl in there that doesn’t just go to your home page, same with your email signature. Look for those empty spaces where you can make it feel more timely instead of just the permanent kind of here’s our home page here’s, what we do here is our mission statement she’s amy sample ward she’s the author i’m not you’ll find her at, you’ll find her and amy sample ward. Dot or go! And also you should be following the woman for god’s sake, twitter is so much wisdom coming follow-up for god’s sake that’s the end of it just for pizza. Just follow at amy rs ward. Thank you, amy. Thank you, tony. My pleasure always next week. Maria semple returns with real estate for prospect research. If you missed any part of today’s show i deceit, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. 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