Jen Frazier, Kate Dreyfuss & Ben Freda: Responsible AI Adoption
We continue our coverage of the 2026 Nonprofit Technology Conference (26NTC), with a panel that helps you find the low-hanging fruit for AI at your nonprofit. They share their 5-Step framework for deploying AI in small, thoughtful steps. They’re Jen Frazier, from Firefly Partners; Kate Dreyfuss at New Music USA; and, Ben Freda with BFC Digital.
Chris Rosica & Bethany Friedlander: Ethically Using AI
Chris Rosica and Bethany Friedlander share 5 strategies to create compelling web and social content with AI, keeping in sight ethics and risks: Ideation; targeting; optimization; repurposing; and, staying human. Chris is from Rosica Communications and Bethany is at New Bridge Cleveland.
We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners
Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.
Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
We launch our coverage of the 2026 Nonprofit Technology Conference with an NTC perennial: Rubin Singh. This year, he asks you to consider the human side of tech that impacts your CRM, and really, all technology: governance; business processes; inclusive design; and, change management. Rubin is CEO of OneTenth Consulting.
Amy Sample Ward: A Conversation With The NTEN CEO
NTEN hosts the Nonprofit Technology Conference. NTEN’s CEO, Amy Sample Ward, is also Nonprofit Radio’s technology contributor. They join us to share about the people and place of 26NTC. What does the host CEO do to prepare for a major annual conference?
We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners
Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.
Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. View Full Transcript
And welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite hebdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be hit with delusional parasitosis if you infested me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate, to give you the highlights. Hey Tony, we have consider the human factors. We launch our coverage of the 2026 nonprofit Technology conference with an NTC perennial, Ruben Singh. This year, he asks you to consider the human side of tech that impacts your CRM and really all technology, governance, business processes, inclusive design, and change management. Ruben is CEO of 1/10 Consulting. Then A conversation with the N10 CEO. N10 hosts the nonprofit technology conference. N10’s CEO Amy Sample Ward is also nonprofit radio’s technology contributor. They join us to share about the people and place of 26 NTC. What does the host CEO do to prepare for a major annual conference? On Tony’s take 2. Tales from the gym. Sourdough from Kim. Here is, consider the human factors. Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit Radio coverage of 26 NTC. That’s the 2026 nonprofit Technology Conference. We are kicking off our 26 NTC coverage with this interview. Everybody’s gathered in Detroit, Michigan, this incredibly savvy, smart tech community. And we’re beginning with Ruben Singh. Ruben is CEO at 1/10 Consulting. Ruben, welcome to nonprofit radio coverage of 26 NTC. Thanks for having me, Tony. It’s a real pleasure kicking off. You’re our first one, first one of the year. Excited to be here. It’s a real privilege. My pleasure too. Thank you. You’re a perennial. I don’t know, 3 years running, 4 years at least, at least, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always enjoy the conversations. Um, thank you. I do, I do as well. Um, just give us an. Overview of the the the topic your your session topic is beyond the technology, the human factors, the human factors driving nonprofit CRM success. Give us an overview. What, what are we confounding between tech and human factors? Sure, sure, um, yeah, thanks for asking. That’s why I really love being here at uh. Um, at NTC because, uh, I spent a lot of time throughout the year, uh, going to other different conferences that focus so much on products, um, on, on newest innovations and, uh, newest technology, and, uh, this conference really gives us the opportunity to step back and say, you know, what makes the technology successful, and in my 20 plus years of consulting experience it actually has very little to do with the technology. Itself it has to do with all the things that are surrounding it in my opinion, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the, the technology is out there, um, everyone’s, you know, all, all vendors are really, um, doing as best they can to make sure they’re, they’re aligned with, uh, the needs of the community, but, um, that in itself doesn’t make success, so that’s kind of what I’m hoping to, to touch on this week. OK, sounds very good. Yeah, thank you. That’s a great overview. Uh, you can, you can grab, yep, grab his mic and. So what are some of these, uh, Amy also we might wanna be sensitive. I’m not sure about if the PA is a little too loud. I’m not sure it might be. We’ll take care of that. What are some of these human factors that you think are influencing CRM success? Sure, um, there’s gonna be about 5 or so that I’m gonna cover in my talk, um, but I can surely, uh, chat about some of those here. I, I, the first and foremost is really clarity of purpose. Um, what is it that we’re trying to achieve with the system? Um, oftentimes, uh, organizations will reach out to us and say, hey, you know, we, we need Salesforce, uh, and then I might ask them, uh, you know, what is it that, what, what is it that drove you to that decision, or, you know, what business problem are you trying to solve, and there’s not always answers for that, um, or the answers are very different depending on the different folks that you speak with, and, um, you know, it’s, it’s very easy, especially when, you know, you as a consultant to wanna jump in and problem solve and, all right, let’s build. Um, but, uh, you know, as I’ve learned through my career, uh, you, you really need to start with that strategy first, um, so that’s a, a, a, a key point of, of clarity of purpose, you know, what is it that we’re trying to achieve? Are, are we all on the same page of what we’re trying to achieve? Are there potentially different goals? Is it, you know, that we want to increase fundraising? We want to, uh, you know, we wanna be able to measure our. Impact better of our programs we want to be able to tell our story better. Is it, is it all of the above, um, all, all of these things ultimately need to be defined so we know how to, to, you know, uh, chart a path forward. I feel like some of this may be simplicity too isn’t, I think it’s simpler, although taking on a CRM change is not, is not simple, but. Is it, is it easier from an institutional perspective to say, you know, it’s a tech we need tech we needs Salesforce and we need versus being more introspective about our human our our our our human influences over technology? Absolutely Tony I think you you you hit the nail on the head there. I think it’s uh. Uh, oftentimes I’m brought in for what is said, hey, we, we need to solve this technology problem. We need to migrate to this new system or we need to upgrade here. And as I start having conversations and peeling back layers of the onion, I realized, goodness, this, uh, this is not a technology problem at all, um, or, or a very small part of it is technology. Um, there’s, um, you know, and, and I would say that, um, we, we often as a consulting practice, um, get brought into. Uh, organizations that have had a system for a very long time or they may have had an implementation that didn’t go very well, and when we look at the system itself, um, it, it’s almost, it is a reflection of the organization as well. It’s, it’s like we could see what your operational model is just by looking at your system. If it’s, if it’s very siloed and the data is very, you know, walled off, well, you know, it, it’s probably how you operate as an organization. Um, you know, every, everybody kind of doing their own things without a whole lot of synergy or a whole lot of, uh, ways to, to, um, work with each other towards a shared goal. Um, if data is, um, not really, really maintained very well, there’s not a lot of good data integrity, well, that probably reflects about, you know, how, how much or how little you value your data. Um, there’s so much that we can learn, you know, by seeing how the systems are and, and to your point. It takes that introspection and um it is much easier to just build and to be fair because then we can jump into a we can jump into it now we’ve got these 18 month project and just take a life of its own and we can ignore we can ignore we can ignore it the issue, the human issues and the culture issues that that we’re suffering through. Yes, and, and if I can, you know, if I’m being truly honest here, um, I will be honest it’s a safe space here. Um, we, uh, vendors, product vendors and consultants, uh, like myself, we don’t, we don’t necessarily make it easier, you know, we, we’re also like, oh, you know, if you’re not jumping on AI right now, you’re behind, or, uh, you know, if you’re not taking advantage of the latest product, oh gosh, where are you, you know, so I think, you know, we, we play a role in some of that as well, um, and so I really, uh, respect those organizations and, and especially those leaders within those organizations. who have that introspection and humility to say, you know what, before we jump into this, um, we need to make sure, uh, we’re aligned and, you know, our data is right and we’re, uh, you know, we have, uh, similar ideas in terms of strategy. We’ve cleaned up some of our processes. Otherwise what we’re doing is we’re spending those 18 months building something that ultimately won’t be used, um, and really, uh, hurts the bottom line of the organization and the impact they’re trying to deliver. How do you help clients? Make the pivot from we need the we need the tech solution to. We need to look introspectively at our, our human factors. Good question. And it honestly it doesn’t take much, um, you know, I, I, one thing I, I tried to insist on in our projects and try to build it into the, into the budgets is at, at bare minimum of, of what I call a visioning session where if nothing else we get leaders, managers, some, uh, you know, folks who are using the system in the front line. Get them together and be able to have a simple conversation about what exactly are the goals. Who are you as an organization? What are you trying to accomplish? What are those metrics that, that can tell you that you have or have not accomplished it? Um, what’s your vision of how a CRM system or your technology is going to help you achieve those things? Really just these 5 or 6 questions, um. I will get a good uh idea of how uh aligned they are and then you know when you ask those questions and everybody in the room has a different answer, that’s when they realize oh OK we’re not ready to jump right in um there are cases where everybody is aligned OK well then we can we can move a little bit faster and start talking about requirements and design, um, but I would say majority of the time with nonprofits, you know, trying to juggle as much as they have to in, in very unprecedented times. Um, it is, uh, it’s really, uh, that, that, that sort of initial conversation, um, is usually what makes folks realize, oh, we really need to step back and do this right. I’m wondering, has this cost you clients where, where, you know, they, they realize they’re not ready for the kinds of solutions and the kind of work that you bring? Um, it, it, it, it did early on, it did early on, early on I would say, you know, that they would come to us and say, hey, you know, we were referred to you, or, you know, can you implement this, and, and, and I like to step back. OK, well, we’ll find somebody else then. Um, oftentimes I’ll, I’ll actually refer them to somebody else. Like I, I, I don’t want to, I’m not in the business of, of, uh, wasting nonprofits money, um, or, or setting them up for failure. So, um, there’s, uh, but I would say as, as I’ve gotten further in my career and, you know, um, have shared a little bit, you know, the success story. That we’ve had with this approach, it’s, it’s actually, you know, we’re starting to see some nonprofits, uh, uh, reach out to us for this. They, they know that they, they need someone and, and they also don’t necessarily wanna bring in a different strategy consultant because they don’t want to have someone who is so disconnected from the technology, um, so they like to have someone who understands the technology, understands the technology roadmap, but doesn’t start there. Um, so I would say it’s, it’s actually, um, it, you know, at the beginning, it, it was tough at first trying to, to convince folks that this is the right way, but now folks are looking for it. Yeah, you and I have talked in the past about inclusive design. Let, let’s talk some about the, again, remind folks the, the value of that and, and how that plays into the, the human factors that are going to influence our, our CRM success. Absolutely, thank, thank you for asking. It’s, it’s not a question I get asked enough, so I appreciate that. We’ve talked at length about it. Yeah, well, I appreciate it. You, you always make sure that we include this as part of it, as part of the conversation. I, I love that, um. It’s, uh, uh, it’s, it’s definitely one of the factors, one of the 5 factors that I’m gonna be speaking about today later on, um, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s really just asking ourselves, uh, when we build systems, uh, as I mentioned, it is a reflection of the organization, it is a reflection of the organization’s values, so we have to ask ourselves who, who, who is at the table making these decisions about how the system is gonna be built, um, and who is not at the table, um, if and who is not at the table, you know, what can we do to get some form of representation to make sure that their voice is heard. Um, oftentimes I’ll go into an organization and, you know, IT will, will, will be sitting with me and say, OK, let’s get into requirements and design, and that’s why I always, you know, say, OK, well, we can, we can talk about this, but ultimately we’re gonna need to talk with the folks who are gonna be using the system day in and day out. Um, or some organizations even a step better, say, OK, well, you know, here’s our super users, and I’ll, and I’ll say, great, you know, I’m happy to talk to the super users who love, you know, the technology, who love CRM. I also wanna talk to people who hate, who hate it, who are uncomfortable with it, who are reluctant, who are resistant, even. We wanna talk to everybody. We wanna talk to people of different demographic, different lived experience, the, the, the more, the more, uh, perspectives we can get. Um, it is gonna help us build a system that’s really designed for everyone, um, so, so I, I, I do believe that and I think also we’re in a time now where, um, we have to be mindful about the data that we capture, um. You know, we, uh, only maybe 10 years ago everyone was talking about big data and collecting as much data as possible so we can do all kinds of, uh, analysis and such and, and patterns and visualizations, um, where I think the nonprofit community is being a little bit more intentional, needs to be more thoughtful about the data that we capture and the data that we decide, hey, this is not, not good or not safe to, to keep in our system. Um, so, you know, these perspectives don’t really come up unless there’s people in the room who are thinking about it, um, so that’s where the inclusive design part comes in, uh, is really making sure we have, uh, as many perspectives at the table, so we have a system that’s really designed for everyone, and we’re being mindful and intentional that, you know, in the data that we capture, the processes that we build, that we’re really. Keeping our communities in mind that we’re serving and and not potentially creating harm, you, uh, you alluded to the principles. I think you’ve got 5 principles of, of, uh, for successful CRM implementation. What can you just tick off those 5, um, clarity of purposes, as I mentioned, the inclusive design is another governance is a 3rd. Um, uh, leadership and leadership growth in the process is, is, is a 4th, um, and the 5th, uh, is, uh, uh, the, the human factors, uh, sorry, the, the emotional, social, emotional aspects of, of moving to a new system, and that’s where I’ll speak a little bit towards, you know, really just understanding that for some folks, uh, moving to a new system, it’s, it’s more than just. Just a technology change, it is really changing your way of life, especially for, you know, I, I work with gift processors who’ve been doing, you know, this, this, this job, um, where they really ensure every gift is, is, uh, entered and processed and coded correctly. Some of these folks have been doing this for 1015 years, um, and it could be a thankless job, and, um, you know, everybody wants them to move quicker, move faster. Um, and, and so I, I, you know, spending time with folks, um, in those roles have just made me realize that this is more than just a software change. Um, it’s really their livelihood, it’s their, it’s the way they do their work, it’s, it’s what they feel comfortable with every, every day, so we have to be thoughtful and intentional in the way that we, um, bring change in those situations. How about the governance role? What, what’s the, what. You’re you’re thinking there, yeah, on the governance side, um, it’s, it’s sometimes one of the hardest things to, to get, uh, folks on board for, but it’s to me it’s one of the most critical things. It’s, uh, you know, when we, when we roll out a new system, it is, it is, we try to make it as perfect as possible, but it’s only good for that moment in time. Um, organizations will evolve. They will change. Their needs will change. New programs come, new programs go. The, the, the social political climate changes, um, and the system needs to evolve with it. And that’s one of the things that I’ve seen when we, when we see how CRM or why CRM systems failed. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest reasons, um, because the, there’s no structure in place to ensure that the system is evolving along with the, uh, with the organization. So when I say governance, I’m talking specifically about a committee, a council, call it what you want, of a cross-functional group of uh folks across the organization, some leadership, some frontline staffs, everything in between. Um, making sure every department is, uh, or business unit is represented in this council, and they’re actually the ones who own the system. It’s not IT. It’s not consultants. It’s not any particular vendor. It is really this governance council that ultimately makes the decisions on, on what gets prioritized, how the system will evolve, what integrations are in place. Um, they don’t have to be technical, you know, that’s where. You know, consultants or IT come in to help implement and execute, but the ultimate decisions are really made by this, uh, governance committee in itself, and I could see how that would bleed into leadership, another one of your five principles you need leadership to create this governance council to make it real and not a, you know, a facade, right, right? And you’re saying and that yeah, and, and the buy-in that the governance council owns the. Owns the system. IT is a support absolute IT is support. So but leadership. I was, I was encouraging you to talk something about the leadership role. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that, um, and, and it’s critical because, uh, we work with some organizations right now who’ve who’ve taken our advice. They’ve created this data governance council, but it’s tough because let’s take an example, um, you know, how do we track certain demographic fields in the system? It might seem like a very simple thing of how do we track race, ethnicity, gender. Um, in, in, in these types of factors, uh, there’s actually a lot of discussion and debate when it comes to these things, you know, how do we wanna break things down, how do we wanna track it? Should we track it, um, and there can be lots of, um, differing opinions here, but this is where leadership then comes in and says, OK, I’ve, we’ve listened to everything, and, and they help, can help facilitate and manage the discussion. Um, there’s also, uh, another topic that comes up in these governance councils is also permissions and security. Um, especially for organizations that are, that are a bit siloed or are used to having their own shadow systems or their own way of doing things, you get everybody together, but now everyone wants everything walled off. I don’t want anybody to see my data. This is where leadership can come in and say, look, these are the advantages of, you know, transparency. This is what the advantages are of, of having some shared data. It can bring synergies that you can, we can refer from program to program. Um, so you know there’s going when we get these governance councils in place, um, there’s going to be debate, there’s gonna be discussion, there could be very heated discussions, but this is where leadership can really grow into, uh, they can either, you know, avoid it and say, hey, you’ve all figured out yourself, or they can lean into it and, um, help facilitate decisions. That can help the organization long term so leadership growth um or that leadership role is is critical to making the data governance work. Say a little more about the the growth and the the evolution really of the system you’re saying as the as the institution changes the the system has to change with it. Uh, is that, is that just like a, a technology maintenance plan, or, but rather, I’ll tell you what, rather than me guessing what it might be, why don’t you just tell us what, what it actually is? Yeah, yeah, sure, um, no, no, all good, um, so an example of specifically around data governance is, um, I sometimes work with organizations, uh, and we start looking at their data of, you know, OK, well, let’s say for what we need to, what we need to move to a, to a new system. Um, they wanna migrate to a newer platform and such, and I find all these data points that are there that have been there for maybe 1020 years, and then you start asking around and nobody can really explain what it’s for, um, nobody can explain the, the root of it, the origin of it, and it’s just things that have been added over time. Um, in, in the most basic form ways, it, it, it clutters the system. It adds to the technical debt. It clutters the layouts that makes it hard and, and, and to use, and, um, oftentimes that stale data, um, it, it sort of takes away from the confidence people have in the system. So they’re like, OK, yeah, I don’t know if this data is accurate. I’m not going to use it. Uh, in fact, I have this spreadsheet that I keep, and I know that’s accurate. A death knell to CRM success exactly antithetical to CRM, uh, yeah, and then if we, if we tie it back into the inclusion conversation, um, you know, sometimes I’m, I’m working with a nonprofit that works with, uh, housing, for example, and then I start looking at all these questions that they ask in their questionnaire questionnaires, and it has to do with criminal history. It has to do with substance abuse history. It has to do with all these things, and I, I start, I have to ask these questions. Why are you tracking all this? What is it is. It, is it required? Is it, and then some of the answers I get back is, oh no, no, no, this was from a grant report that somebody asked for 10 years ago or, um, a leader who was trying to do a report and they asked us to capture this, but nobody’s actually using it right now, um, and now if we think about, you know, big data, data analysis, we talk about AI, um, you know, my fear is, uh, that this, this data gets in the hands of the wrong folks and it can actually harm the communities that, that, that they’re trying to serve, so. Um, so I think that those are just a couple of examples of where, you know, systems need to evolve with the organization and then of course there’s the more operational stuff, new programs, different data points that we wanna collect, different drop downs that we wanna collect, um, and just making sure that the system evolves. The moment, the moment the system doesn’t catch up with it and it becomes too hard to make changes, um, that’s where you’re gonna see the shadow systems and the spreadsheets coming back into play. Share something else that uh you’re gonna talk about in your session today that that we haven’t talked about or or go into, go into more detail on something you think we haven’t covered sufficient. Yeah, I think, um, yeah, the part that I’m most excited about is, is really just talking about how, how the, the, how the CRM is really that operational model. I don’t, I don’t think folks really see that enough, um, you know, I am gonna ask folks like what, what are the, you know, key reasons that they see CRM systems going sideways or implementations going, you know, getting derailed. Um, so I’m excited to hear what the feedback is, but I know when I’ve done these presentations before, it rarely has to do with the technology, and so, um, you know, so, so I think that we haven’t talked about things like change management. Of, of course that’s definitely a key component of it, um, but yeah, I’m really most excited about just kind of talking about the operational model, and, uh, you know, when I, um, Had, I did a similar presentation last year and I spoke a little bit about one of the, one of my five factors back then or last just last year was, um, make sure you start every project with a project charter and uh I don’t know if I feel strongly about that this year. I say the project chart is important, but you know I, I, I would start with a theory of change like that that I think is more important, um. The, the, the project charter could is still a good data element to capture um on how you’re gonna run the project, but I think it’s a project charter, charter, yeah, yeah, of like, you know, what are we trying to accomplish in this project, who are the people, who are the roles, um, how do we make decisions, it’s important, but I think even more important and what I’m gonna emphasize this time is, is the strategy part of it. You know, who are you as an organization? What is your theory of change? How do you intend to achieve the change that you’re trying to create in the world? Let’s start there. Let’s start there and then, uh, we work backwards. We then we figure out the processes that will support that. We figure out the outputs that you wanna track to know that you’re successful. Now let’s start talking about the technology. The technology comes last, OK, yeah. Let’s, uh, so that’s the place to start. We’re gonna end, uh, we’re gonna end our conversation with that. Ruben, always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Ruben Singh, CEO at 1/10 Consulting, where you know that you’re not gonna just be sold a system that, that, uh, will keep Ruben busy for 18 months, but, uh, you ultimately unsatisfied with your CRM that, that, that does not happen for 1/10 consulting clients. So pleasure, Ruben. Thank you. Thank you so much. It’s time for Tony’s take 2. Thank you, Kate. We’ve got tales from the gym, sourdough from Kim. I learned recently. Uh, one of my, uh, visits to the gym in the morning that, uh, the sourdough bread. Is still flowing from Kim to Robert. I know you know Robert Semper Fi, our, our, uh, PhD, our Harvard Kennedy School of Government PhD in, uh, global studies. Recently, new PhD and it was Kim who was giving him sourdough bread. We saw this happen once before, uh, and they had made it sound like it was gonna be an ongoing thing and it turns out that it is. I saw the exchange, she brings the loaf. Last time she went out to the car to get it. Uh, she was, she was, uh, this time she was better prepared. Oh no, you know what? Last time it was impromptu. She was just talking about the bread and he got a loaf, but then it’s continued. And this week I saw, I witnessed one of the exchanges firsthand. It’s amazing to see, to, to catch a glimpse of, of monumental, you know, milestones of in history like this. The sourdough loaf, exchange, the transfer. The gift of bread from Kim. To our new PhD Robert. So, it was a startling thing to witness. I’m, I’m glad that I was there at, at the moment. You just, you just never know when these things might, you know, might never, might, it might never happen again. You just, you just have to get lucky in life this way. I also learned that Kim is the choir director. Uh, here in town at the church. Now, my town has lots of churches, but I guess one is the church. If I had to guess, I would say it’s probably the, the biggest one, which is the Baptist Church. Uh, Emerald Isle Baptist Church. But I, that’s a guess. She’s, we just know that she’s the choir director at the church. If I ever get confirmation on, uh, on which church in Emerald Isle is the church. Of course I’ll share it in another Tales from the gym. And that is Tony’s take too. Kate. I think you need to get a loaf of this sourdough bread. Well, the first thing I would need to do is start talking to Kim. I guess you can’t just walk up and ask for a loaf. Yeah, no, I’d have to start, yeah, you know, and I wave or I say, I do say occasional good morning to Kim, but that’s it. That’s as far as it goes. So, first thing I would have to do is introduce myself. That’s a big step. You know, I like to, I like to get my stuff done in the gym. I’m there to work, not, uh, not chat up folks. Uh, oh, I got another tales from the gym. Oh, a, a, a, another chatty guy, chat, and this guy. Uh, it’s coming. It’s coming. There, there’s, there’s too much chatting. I got, well, again, I got a place to go. Well, I got a place to go back here in my home office. So I take care of my workouts in the morning. I gotta leave. I, I can’t be chatting between sets and It’s just, there’s no time. There’s no time. You know, um, these folks are all retired. We’ve got just about a butt load more time. Here is a conversation with the N10 CEO. Welcome back to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of 26 NTC. You know that that’s the 2026 nonprofit Technology conference. You know that all these smart folks. Using technology or consulting in technology or thought leaders in technology, all for the social good, you know that we’re all gathered here in Detroit, Michigan. My guest now is Amy Sample Ward. They’re the CEO of N10. We are not at N10. We are at NTC, which is hosted by N10. It’s a little bugaboo that we share, uh, a little. Joke that we share. So we are hosted by N10. Amy is the CEO, of course, you also know that they’re the. Technology contributor to nonprofit radio. Amy Sample Ward, welcome back for, I don’t know, the 60th time, the 70th time to nonprofit radio. Thank you for having me. Thank you for, I forget the number, you’ve already told me 12 times of getting to do this at the NTC. It feels good to have it’s like it’s a core part of it now, you know. Thank you. You you actually planned for where. Nonprofit radio studio would be. Oh, absolutely. When we were on the site visit, we’re like we’re right here, this little beautiful view, sunny corner, everybody walking by, you get that like perfect podcast, ambient background noise of, of chatter and laughter. Yeah, no, we, we held this corner for you. Thank you very much. That’s what a lovely, what a lovely intro. That’s, that’s fabulous. Thank you. You can uh doff your little mic. OK. So we’re gathered here in Huntington Place, yes, which, which, uh, which is the convention center, but they don’t call it that. Exactly, thank you. I didn’t want to steal the headline, but yes, it is the Detroit Convention Center. Yes, we have thought, I, I, I’m quite curious how it came to be named that because. You know, like, what was the focus group room where they just tried and then everyone loves Huntington. Great. OK, well, let’s just call it Huntington Place, you know, um, I’m sure it’s maybe named after someone or mayor I, yes, the province leader of, yes, this is a trivia question. I, I can’t wait for a listener to email me like I can’t believe you didn’t know. Why is it Huntington Place? All right, but it is, and we’re gathered here. How many of us are gathered here in person? Well, because we’ve committed to continuing having both an in-person and a virtual, we don’t totally know how many people are in the building because you could just join virtually and not tell us. You can swap out at the last minute, totally, yep, so we’ve got, um, just about 1600 attendees in total. How many of them are in the room on any given day? I’m not sure, but you know, I, I don’t imagine that it’s 5, So it’s probably close to that number. OK, much higher than 5, right, much closer to 1600. OK, that’s right. Um, what’s, um, we’ve had, we’ve had a lot of chats, not surprisingly here at, uh, in the studio about artificial intelligence, of course. I imagine so. Let’s, let’s diverge from that. Oh, thank you for that gift. Share, share, uh, today’s keynote. I, I, I cannot. Uh, be in the key in the, in the comments for the keynotes because we’re setting up the studio because, uh, last minute stuff has to be done, ready for the 9 o’clock interview. So what was today’s, uh, keynote about? Sure, today was our, uh, the whole keynote was presented through our partnership with PIT UN, the Public Interest Technology University Network, um, which is part of CUNY no, no, oh, Pitt. OK, the pit lounge, we’re, we’re right here across from the pit lounge, yep, we sure are, um, CUNY, like many other universities, are part of that network, um, of the of the university network. That’s right. But so just to answer, I will come back to your question and I’m gonna take a meandering path, uh, to first say that because everything is horrible, everything is hard, um. Not everything, many things that we really tried this year to embrace the things that aren’t hard and horrible which are partnerships and collaboration and community and invited a number of other nonprofits who not just like in a. Talking point our mission aligned but like practically are part of what it means to advance intense’s mission of having equitable technology and an equitable world, Pit UN being one of them, spaces where they’re trying to make sure tech is built in community with community members. So we asked if they would come underneath the tent and and just have one big tent for this year and they of course said yes uh and we’re like we’ll do all the things we’ll sit right here we’ll bring all these people, you know, and one of the things they offered is how do we elevate these conversations should we partner on one of the main stage conversations and we said yes of course and how. We showcase what what it means to actually build technology in community. I think obviously that’s something I talk about you’ve talked about, you know, like that’s an idea, but how can we prove to this whole audience that it’s a real thing that people do every day. So this morning’s general session, Andrene Soli, the executive director of PI UN. Hosted a conversation with two practitioners from the Pitt UN Network where they talked about, yeah, literally this is a center at a university I run and we get all these students and all these community members and also these local government folks and these businesses and we built this whole advisory and then they decided what tech they wanted and then they built it together and then they have rolled it out and here’s how it’s sustained and really talked about like. Yeah, it’s not just possible, it’s, it’s happening, um, and, and kind of filled the morning with those possibilities. OK, cool, cool, cool. Um, so I, I’d like a little insider insider scoop or something like what is as we sit in this hallway with all these people, let’s get the secrets out. Yes, you’ll you’ll you’ll temper my question. No, what does the CEO of the host organization do with a 1600 person. 2.5 day conference. I see you, uh, you run back and forth. You, you have a radio in one hand. Lots of people have radios. All the team members have radios, but, uh, you know, I see you having conversations as you’re going up the escalator. You’re shouting down at the, you know, like asking this, yeah, but, but did the audience understand the nuances of the ethical considerations as you’re, as you’re gliding up this 10 minute answer is coming? Do they understand the ethical considerations as the as you. Um, no, so what, what, like, you know, what, what’s your, what’s your, what are your days like for the, not the lead in, but the live, the live 2.5 days. We started yesterday, today’s Thursday. Tomorrow we close Friday like around 2 o’clock or so, roughly. What do you do for these 2.5 days, you as the CEO of the host organization? It’s a great question, um. I think that my job is making sure that everyone is competent doing their jobs, so making sure everybody on the team knows if they’re. Signed up on it we have an internal staffing calendar for all the different roles to make sure people get breaks and get lunch and can walk away and not talk to anyone for a minute, you know, and so if they’re signed up for a shift and they’ve never done it before, do they know how to do it and they feel good and they don’t have to. Admit that like I’ve already checked in to say hey this is what’s gonna happen do you feel good you know you can ask me questions um and then the same thing goes to all of the partners anybody that’s here attendees too like. I want everyone, if you made it all the way here, even if you walked from a block away or you flew from 4000 miles away, that like. If you’re spending all of your precious energy to be here that you, you get out of it whatever you needed out of it, you know, and for some people that sessions, OK, let’s make sure the sessions are running, the AV team is there that, you know, those are gonna come off and you’re your best self, but also that attendees or partners, everybody felt like they’re leaving. Like satisfied and satiated and full and ready for a whole another year of hard work. So, A lot of my walking around or talking with folks is just like, do you have what you need? Do you not know where to go? Do you not know that, oh yeah, there’s already a room for that like here let me show you on the map where that room is, um, and then solving when people say no I don’t have what I need actually or I don’t know how to find that room, uh, and walking in there. So that’s my job. OK, so not, not so much putting out fires. That’s the, the, the team is empowered to deal with the if someone has a, has a purple lanyard and a radio, that means they can, so we have a, a pre-conference meeting with, with a representative of every vendor associated with the building and we say. You’re escalating it to me because I, I, I guess you believe that has to happen. Anyone on the team can say yes or no to a question and can authorize how we do this work. You, you pointed out last year that when you go to that, when you have that meeting with all the representatives of, I guess, housekeeping, uh, food, security, everything. AVIT. They’re accustomed to meeting one or two people on, on the host from the host organization. You bring the whole team. All of intent is in those meetings and they’re shocked. Like all these people, we can, we can deal with all these people. It’s right, and we ask every single one of them does an intro. Every single one of them shares what part of the conference they run. Yeah, alright, so you’re doing it differently. The food is excellent this year, as good as usual. We do really care. We want people to food. I know, yeah, I know, I mean. Uh, I, you have plus all the options. I mean, uh, there’s gluten-free, which I know is important for you, but it’s important for hundreds of people here, and there’s kosher and there’s vegan. The options have all been, it’s all been arranged. It’s not like we don’t halal, sodium-free, everything. Thank you for calling out a couple more that I that I didn’t think of, right, um. What’s the, what, what goes into the planning? Like, what’s the, what, let folks in on the. The two weeks before the first day here. What’s that, what’s that like for N10? Two weeks before, I mean, by that point we’re so down into the details of, OK, do we feel like this, you know, do we want an easel sign or a meter board sign at the bottom of that escalator? jargon jet. What’s a meter board sign? Oh, a meter board is like is literally those tall signs that that stand like 2 m tall, um, versus an easel sign which which goes on an easel, um, but yeah, we’re really down into the details within 2 weeks, you know. We have looked through all the bins and storage and we’re deciding that 2 weeks out is kind of when we do our final, you know, do we think that we need 3 more plastic sleeves that hold an 8.5 by 11 sign, you know, do we need more chocolate for community assistance desk, um, I think. Our biggest work starts a year out, you know, 2 weeks in it, you know, the train hasn’t just left the station, the train is like arriving the next and so our kind of our, our shipping. What about shipping? No, shipping is a month out. Shipping is already done. Yeah. 00, everything’s already on site here. Yeah, OK, OK, OK, um, but. We take, you know this, we talked about, you know, we have intense sleep day on Monday and then the following week is when we have our kind of multi-hour debrief and we start a debrief doc for the next conference. in 2 weeks because we don’t wait until it’s over to start, you know, um, because as soon as you’ve done something well now you know oh I shouldn’t have done it that way I’m gonna put it in the debrief, right? so we’ll go through everything. That we’ve put in there for the last year, make decisions. OK, do we just need to vent or is that actually something that we need to change, right? Or is that an idea for something to do differently and then we in that same document transition to here’s the build for next year. Speakers need a different form when they do their thing or badges need a different field in the, you know, right then and that feels in some ways like. A really big mental lift because you in order to make a lot of those decisions we’re like really playing in our mind OK what will that be like to build the registration, you know, checkout process or what will that be like to run a session in that room if we change the AV set and so it takes a lot out of everybody and it’s like hours of discussion. But then once we have that, we’re just referring to that document for a year, you know. It feels like there’s a catharsis to that too. I don’t have to keep this in my head, you know, it’s until we start the, the planning for the next one. That’s dump. It is a common refrain because it’s a year-round practice. Somebody will say, oh, I wish I had thought of put it in the debrief. We just, you know, star that document and everyone is just opening it all the time, all throughout the year, yep, put it in the debrief. OK, this is valuable institutional knowledge. Yes, yes, cumulative they are, they are coveted documents, you know, that’s cool. That’s cool. Um, are we, are we able to announce next year’s location? Yes, I should have looked up the dates. I know where it’s gonna be, but is it, it’s in Portland. Portland. It’s Portland, expected to be Portland and it’s in March. That’s OK. That’s OK. We’ll, we have plenty of nonprofit radio episodes between now and then. 50 50 to be exact. Between now and then, so there’ll be plenty of opportunities, but yes, next year’s is in Portland in March. That’s right. OK, because we, because you’re so egalitarian. Last year was Baltimore, East Coast. We’re Central Detroit. And West Coast is always Portland because so many staff live there and so Portland. Do we know two years out the location? We don’t. We don’t know that. Oh, you’re not bound. We’re not bound. You’re not bound. OK, well that’s good, right? Yes, flexibility because in years past, there were, there were binding contract COVID. Threw off the the cadence of how far out you could really book too. So I see. OK. OK, good. So Portland next year. Look forward to that. I already met someone from the AV Jen partners with us every year. Yeah, I didn’t know that. I, you know, she’s an all black and she’s got the logo on her shirt. Uh, you know, audio tape, whatever it says. And so I just pigeonholed her into, oh, they do the graphics and the recordings of, of all the of the sessions and the and the main room and the comments, etc. But no, she said she does the early walkthrough with you. They’re year round. Told me how you thought about this alcove for nonprofit radio and she’s, yeah, this is perfect. So yeah, so I’m gonna talk to her early for next year on how to get all my gear to Portland. This year, Amy, my wife and uh production assistant here, uh, lives in Indiana. Uh, where you went to college, um, so she drove, so I shipped a bunch of stuff to her because I fly. Last year Baltimore, North Carolina to Baltimore, I drove, so I drove the gear. This year I shipped the gear to Amy. She drove it up to Detroit. Next year nobody’s driving. No one’s driving all the way, neither North Carolina nor Indiana to Portland. So I would like to be able to get my gear there. It’s a real pain in the ass to bring it on a plane. I’ve done it. I’ve done it, but I’ve so many bags, gear bags, so Jen Jen is gonna. Partner with me. Jen’s gonna help you. She said talk to Hailey and Jen will have advice. Yeah, what were you gonna say? Well, you know that I do this to you regularly, but can I ask you a question, even though it’s your radio show? I think I know what you’re gonna ask, but yes, well, OK, it might be the one you, well, you might surprise me. Go ahead, of course you can. I was just gonna say it’s been 12 years of you being at the NTC and hosting. So many, I mean you do a really great job kind of curating if that doesn’t feel like a weird word, but you know selecting a real cross section of content across, I mean there’s, you know, 180 sessions or whatever and you’re not doing 180 interviews that would, you would be here for 2 weeks, you know. Ash’s with Ash’s help, I do, I do go through and select, but so I’m curious, you know, obviously 12 years ago people weren’t talking about AI and now a bunch of them are, but you know, separate from that kind of change, I’m curious any reflections that stick out to you of like. You know, I, I’m in the middle of the storm and, and you’re in the storm but not in the same spot of it that I am and I’m curious like if you can see shifts in those conversations or in those topics or in those, you know, like I’m curious what you see that’s maybe changed over those 12 years as an indicator of, of the larger sector conversation. Well, I’ve, I’ve, uh, complimented you on this before that you are a very much a macro and also micro thinker and I tend to be more tactical and so less of a macro thinker, so it’s a challenging question, but yeah, no, uh, so it’s not the one I was expecting. That’s OK, which is fine, which is absolutely fine. So I would say. You know, the way, the way now technology is mostly software, it’s not exclusively, it’s also human processes are, but I would say the way technology has evolved has changed the conversations. I mean, you know, 12 years ago, I don’t know, like I feel like 12 years ago we might have still been reading software manuals or app manuals, you know, but, but now software is so intuitive and. The user experience, I mean, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know if 12 years ago we were talking about UX and UI. I don’t know if we were, they were very technical conversations. And, and yeah, but you know design is not just intentional but it’s just more common. I feel they’re part of that. Yes, you can feel more a part of it because the technology is more I guess human human focused, you know, it’s, it’s, it seems like it’s, it’s more common. They’re more common threads binding the technology than there than there were 1012 years ago, um, yeah, an app. Across multiple apps is a more common experience than it was 1012 years ago. The expectations are, are, are higher, I think software is certainly more sophisticated, um, but it’s, it’s, it’s more than just user friendly. It’s, there’s a more common understanding of what technology is now than I think there was 12 years ago, I think. Yeah, you would not have, you wouldn’t have looked at, well, what do, what do our competitors do? That we can improve upon presumably, but, but you know, where are they starting from versus, you know, now versus, you know, let’s start out of the box. So I’d say that I’d say that. I don’t know how to put that in 6 words, but I like that and and I think that’s all for the good and that’s all for the good of humans interacting with the technology um it’s for the good of the missions that we’re all here to promote through. Savvier use of technology, that’s all for the good, yeah, yeah. The question I thought you were gonna ask me, tell me what that is, uh, what’s a common theme this year? Oh, OK. I mean, you’re welcome to answer it if you had an answer AI, of course, which was, is more common this year than last year, but you know what I’m seeing within that niche. Much more. Conversation about the environmental impact. We’ve only got one floating in the sky. People are more concerned about it this year than they were last year. Last year, uh, ethical considerations and, and that certainly not that we’ve abandoned the ethics and the biases of using artificial intelligence, so more of like the social human impact when you say ethical, just clarifying because people maybe categorize environmental as the ethical, you know, ethical use of our resources versus ethical. Impact on humans that’s the bigger picture that you that you see. Yes, I’m seeing more of the physical environmental concerns. Water, electricity centers, yes, with massive data centers, and I think that’s because of the proliferation of them. It’s like even just in the last 12 months that conversation is coming up. If it’s not in your backyard, there’s a good chance it’s in your state. Right. We’re now talking about billions of gallons of water. Well, and, and it’s so complicated, right? Like there’s already great examples of communities doing like the real work of democracy, you know, like local communities working together, lifting up their voices and saying no, right, getting city council to not approve a, a data center contract or, or whatever it might be. However, and I think that’s great, you know me, I, we could go down that road deeply, but the thing I hear every time I, I want to celebrate one of those stories is, but then what about the community that didn’t have enough people. Like I’m gonna cry just thinking about it I know you know or know how to organize to know how to organize to organize they didn’t know what to do, hadn’t hadn’t built that social infrastructure as a rural or low resourced community. To get to make the city council do that same thing, these are the voiceless, right? or or the marginalized, right, and, and so I, multiple things are true at once. I’m so proud of communities saying we get to have a choice and our choice is no and that needs to be respected. And at the same time it is true that there are so many communities that don’t know or have access to the resources that would allow them also to get to do that, you know, so then it’s like well then we just completely keep repeating the same patterns of the places where jails are built. Right where data centers are built, where giant warehouses are built, are continue to be in the places that are gonna keep mostly impacting those same groups, you know. Yeah, yeah. And the physical impacts of all those things, as well as the environmental, just environmental meaning like just what what you you do you even have a neighborhood or you just live someplace. You don’t have a community, you don’t have a neighborhood, you just have a home or an apartment somewhere. Yeah, I know. I don’t know. They’re Amy Sample Ward. They’re a good friend. They’re, they’re our tech contributor. They’re the CEO of E10, um. I don’t know. They’re in our hotel. You’re, you’re in our hotel. Maybe we shouldn’t, I don’t know. Do you have a Friday night planned? Um, for the first time in my personal NTC history, so of every NTC I’ve worked as a staff person, but even as an, as an attendee before I worked at N10, um. I am leaving Friday night. I have like the last flight out because, um, Saturday, I was gonna say tomorrow but it’s not, it’s not Friday. So the, the, the next day, um, at 10:00 a.m. is my daughter’s ballet competition and I wanna, I don’t wanna miss it and I couldn’t and I couldn’t fly in time. You know, on a Saturday morning, so I had to take the last flight out late Friday night. Good parent. Good parent also they’re a parent. Also they’re a parent. Yes, and she’s very upset she didn’t get to come to the NTC this year and it’s like, well, next year for sure. Yes, of course, of course hugging her. Yes, yes, she will expect an interview. I’ll put her on mic. Why don’t you bring her with you? It’s, uh, it’s Amy and Oren next year. That’s on mic. Yeah. OK. Alright, alright. They’re Amy Sample Award, the CEO of N10. They are the host organization of the nonprofit technology conference. We’re at NTC. We’re not at N10. N10 is the host. Amy is the CEO. Thank you very much, my friend. Thank you for having me, my friend. pleasure. Thank you for having me. You’re, you always, you always plan on nonprofit radio. Thank you. 13, we’ll be there in Portland, whatever the dates are, we’ll be there in March in Portland next year. Yes. Next week, our 26 NTC coverage continues with responsible AI adoption and ethically using AI. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at Tony Martignetti.com. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate Martinetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.
We launch our 25NTC coverage with the CEO of NTEN, which hosts the Nonprofit Technology Conference, sharing the numbers and the experience of this year’s Conference, earlier this month in Baltimore, Maryland. They’re Amy Sample Ward, and they’re also Nonprofit Radio’s technology contributor.
Rubin Singh: The Human Factors Driving Your CRM Success
Don’t blame your tech first when it feels like your CRM database is letting you down. Human beings, the tech users, have responsibilities that precede, and must align with, your technology. Rubin Singh returns to enlighten us about business processes; inclusive design; personal and professional growth; and more human factors that impact the success of your CRM database. He’s founder and CEO of OneTenth Consulting.
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And welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the podfather of your favorite hebdominal podcast. We’re kicking off our 25 NTC coverage this week. These two segments are both from 25 NTC. It was a wonderful conference. I think the best. Uh, this was, I believe, the 11th year that I’ve hosted nonprofit radio, uh, in a studio at the nonprofit technology conference, and I think this was the best one. You’ll hear Amy and I talk about that. So excited, legitimately, you know, some people say, uh, I’m excited. No, I’m excited that we are launching, inaugurating, kicking off our 25 NTC coverage this week. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d suffer the effects of ramidenia if you pained me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer Kate with what’s coming. Hey Tony, this week it’s 25 NTC. The CEO of N10, which hosts the nonprofit technology conference, shares the numbers and the experience of this year’s nonprofit technology conference last week in Baltimore, Maryland. They are Amy Sample Ward, and they are also nonprofit Radio’s technology contributor. Then the human factors driving your CRM success. Don’t blame your tech first when it feels like your CRM database is letting you down. Human beings, the tech users, have responsibilities that proceed and must align with your technology. Rubin Singh returns to enlighten us about business processes, inclusive design, personal and professional growth, and more human factors that impact the success of your CRM database. He’s founder and CEO of 10th Consulting. On Tony’s take 2. Tales from the gym. Meet Roy. We’re sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. DonorBox, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, DonorBox.org. Here is 25 NTC. Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit Radio coverage. Oh wait, I should do what Amy loves. Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the podfather of your favorite hebdominal podcast. What a genuine pleasure to welcome. The CEO of N10, the host of the 2025 nonprofit technology conference, Amy Sample Ward, welcome. Thank you. I don’t know that I’ve ever gotten to see in person witness live the Podfather intro. So yeah, exactly, it doesn’t have the same power, you know. Uh, so, uh, we’re here at 25 NTC. We’re at the uh Baltimore Convention Center. Oh, I, I should have said that our coverage here is sponsored by Heller Consulting technology services for nonprofits. Very grateful to Heller Consulting. How’s the conference going? CEO. It’s going great from community perspective, you know, I think we didn’t really know what to expect in this moment right from the community perspective, yes, I mean you know there’s always special things um there’s always opportunities to continue refining. Uh, but you know, from the, from the community side and kind of what we spend so much time focusing on, you know, the community experience, we just, you know, would anyone actually. Feel like coming when they woke up Wednesday morning would be, you know, like are is anyone even gonna be in a space to have conversations or wanna go to a session, you know, and we’re not trying to pretend that everything is fine and normal or that those things exist, you know. I like we’re certainly embracing that and yet we’re trying to embrace it within a reality of well we’ve all planned for this conference to be here so so it is still a a structured thing and and how porous can we make it in real time together to also meet whatever needs are emerging by maybe going to a session that was already planned and you know the speaker had prepared but from that conversation came something. Oh my gosh, we, we need a space, we need to keep talking about this right now and what do we do, right? So I’ve heard a couple of stories like that anecdotally that I’ve got I’ve learned so much I need to learn more now and you realized what I didn’t know and I I need to connect with that person or, you know, um, I heard it from an audience, uh, like talking to somebody who was sitting next to the person who was talking to me and then also to this for. Speaker, I, you know, I need to connect with, I forget whether it’s him or her or whatever. It doesn’t matter. Um, I need to learn more from this person. Alright, let’s let’s, uh, you know, I always like to ask you the numbers you know how many folks are with us here in real life in Baltimore, Maryland. I don’t know that I actually have the accurate numbers. We, we’re. Uh, 1800 registrants overall, but given how many shifts are happening, I don’t know exactly, and, well, I’ll finish my first sentence and then I’ll add a second so I don’t know how many folks are necessarily in person because we don’t. Require if you’re in person you have access to the virtual and so folks that couldn’t come for whatever reason didn’t necessarily have to tell us that so we don’t totally know or they could have even come one day and then gone virtual another day that’s right so I don’t totally know how many folks are in the room. I know that I think catering told us that over 1600. Silverware were used at lunch today. So just for lunch today I guess that yeah I know I only used one and I used one upstairs even so it’s a proxy for right so that’s how many people ate lunch I guess. OK, um, talking about the conference experience, uh, we’re gonna bring in someone who was a previous guest Aia Aria Ma, come on, come on, Arya. you can share my mic, just share my mic. Yeah, let’s make it easier. Um, because this is her first NTC, and I, I, she was saying, she was saying things that I think you would want to hear as CEO. So I said, if you want to come back, well, it’s not gonna be quite that long, but, uh, yeah, it’s not gonna be quite that long, but thank you. Uh, if you wanna talk to the CEO, let Amy know that, that, uh, what, how you feel about your first NTC. So this is Ama. Um, her company, uh, are, are you just, you say your company, so I don’t have to look back two pages. OK, I’m, I’m the principal consultant founder of Lunara, so I do consulting with environmental conservation nonprofits. Um, first of all, thank you. This has been amazing. I’m actually from Baltimore, so just jot down from Boston, do a quick family trip, and the people here, I feel. Like NDC really has curated an amazing group of people where it’s not really about networking but really connecting and knowledge sharing the accessibility here it really feels like the staff are here looking out for the for the participants and it’s just been an amazing time connecting with people the bird like the feathers of a bird table conversations, the comfy chairs like this is I’ve been to a lot of conferences. And it’s definitely one of a kind. So thank you so much for curating an amazing team, curating amazing people who come here. It’s been a really great time for me. All right, thank you so much for being thank you for being one of those amazing people that is here, right? Thank you. I so appreciate that. Of course, of course, lots more NTCs in your future. OK, good. Thank you. Thanks for coming back. Glad you did. I, yeah, a little treat for you. I knew I knew you would want to hear something. Thank you. You’re welcome. Um, So, oh, I turned up for that was turned it up for our, yeah, OK, um, alright, so we have about 1800 people. Well let’s call it 1800 between friends, just as a round number. That’s good. OK yeah, we, I mean, I think there were like 12 people who just showed up and registered on site yesterday, so. Yeah, the number is a moving. When we talked a couple of weeks ago, you said people just show up. I was amazed at that. OK, it happens. OK. There’s always room at the NTC, you know. Yeah, well, we’ll add another chair. What did Ari just say? There’s a staff. Thank you for the staff, looking, looking out for all of us. Yes, of course. We’re accommodating. We’re, we, I’m a member, so I’m not staff, but I’m, I’m part of the N10 the N10 community. I don’t want to call it the the NTC people call you NTC. Yeah, I know Amy. She runs NTC in a way they, they, yeah, um. The commons experiment, yeah, I mean, I hope like we could talk about it for a minute. I’m just gonna preempt your intro and say for people who run conferences as part of the larger work of your organization, right, not that not that you’re an event planner, but people who are listening to the show and have organizations that have conferences as a part of your programming. Would love to learn what you are testing because we, as I said the other day you know there’s that like analogy or whatever like oh I pulled the band-aid off and just you know tried something we we found every band-aid and we pulled them all off at once and tested everything is is different this year. There is not an exhibit hall with pipe and drape and 10 by 10 squares that you have to walk through, uh, hallway hallways of corridors of, uh, it’s an open space, open plan. The studio here is set up right behind all the chairs that are facing the stage where the main stage where all the keynotes are and the awards were given. Um, we’re by the food station. Well, the food is here. It’s just the the hall is open. There’s not anything dividing us. Yeah, we sold no exhibit booth packages. Uh, and I admire it, I admire the attempt at change. Look, even if you, I’m not, you’re gonna decide as a team what you’re gonna do, but even if you went back to 10 by 10 cubes, uh, pipe and drape next year, I would still admire the 2025 experiment because you are trying something that radically different. You’re not bound by what every other conference does and what you. Uh, what N10 has done year after year after year for 24 years, this is our 25th, your 25th NTC. So you’re not bound by, by your own history even. I just, I admire the outward look, the fresh look, even if you go back to the way it was last year, I still will never stop admiring what you did this year. Thank you for saying that. I mean, I think. It in some ways was was and is a huge risk to say we don’t we’re not even selling packages that would equate to hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue um so if anyone’s listening and would like to write a check, please let me know um. But it just didn’t feel like that hard of a choice for us because it feels like every year all we want is to get closer and closer to an experience for as many people as possible to be in community and we, you know, getting rid of the booths was just one thing there’s also, you know, sessions are working in different ways and there’s. More furniture in this room that is not from the convention center, you know, it’s not rounds with chairs. We actually rented every piece of furniture from a local furniture company, um, just to, I can say the name that’s my show, not the Freeman Company. We’re not we’re not using that. We actually have put on an entire, you know, 1800 person conference in a convention center without a decorator, um, so we. Did everything ourselves so that we could control and make it just how we wanted it to be. You rented how many chairs you found a source for all these, all the everything, yes, every, every vendor is local, every maker is local. Yeah, you have a little shop. There’s there’s a market, local, local vendors that yesterday I saw cutting boards, uh, I see art, uh, that’s all I saw, but there’s a market over there, local, local vendors love it. You, you also do something smart that I learned, uh, one of your team members told me. That uh you you have your staff retreat in the city where or one of your annual retreats in the city where next year’s NTC is gonna be that’s very smart that way all everybody has walked the building we’ve all stood there and said, do we think this is really where badge printing could go? Do we really think this is. Because we also make basically every decision as a team for the conference, so you know there’s no one person on staff whose job is the conference and they get to make the decisions we we do it together or we say who wants to be in this decision, you know I think we’ve even talked about some of the the way Zen10 works um on the show before but. Yeah, so it feels good to have everybody be there, which means this late summer, early fall we’ll all party in Detroit and see what 26 NTC is gonna look like. OK, 26 NDC NTC in Detroit. Uh, no, it’s very smart and you’ve walked out. in the hotels we can make a couple of restaurant suggestions if somebody comes up because we, yeah, yeah, we went to that place. Yeah, very savvy, very savvy. I admire it. I don’t know. I just feel like I would never have thought of that. Like if I was a CEO I would, I wouldn’t need somebody else to suggest that. I think I never would have thought of that. Can I ask you a question? Do I get, is that allowed on nonprofit radio? OK, OK. I had an anarchist in the previous, uh, OK, I was gonna ask you, you know, I know, I mean with 160 plus sessions every year you have a hard job of only doing 30 or so interviews or or 20 or whatever the number is, right? Yeah, yeah, because it’s that’s only a fraction of how many sessions you could have um chosen from. But even still, I’m curious from the interviews you’ve had from, from a day and a half or so. This is content different this year? Like, is there, is there trends or or interesting notes surfacing because of the time we’re in, because of the moment we’re in the moment of under this administration, the the shifts of of the sector, but also even just like this weird moment around AI and the moment around, you know, all of those different pieces, is there something that you’ve seen? Artificial intelligence, yes, more panels on artificial intelligence. I, I requested more so we’ll have a couple more um. Yeah, I, that’s that’s what I was thinking it’s artificial intelligence, um, you know, the, the political environment, it comes out a little bit, but, uh, first of all, a lot of our, well, yeah, no, it comes out you know of course beyond the fundraising, uh, I was gonna say the fundraising panels have mentioned it, you know, but, but, um. Uh, also in the tech, uh, we just had a panel on personally identifiable information, how to preserve that, um, and including from government intrusion and subpoena, um, so you know that would not have been a topic last year would have been a thought, a possibility, um, so yeah, I’d say those mostly the AI and then the the the political and the, um, data, data protection, data protection, yeah, yeah. Um, Is uh is is Max here? Max stage managing? No, he hasn’t for a number of years a few years yes, yes, and I didn’t see Or Louise here. No, she, it’s not her spring break. Oregon already had spring break, so she is very mad to miss her first. TC. Oh, is this the first one? I think so many years at least, or yeah, I think so. She’s about to be 9. That’s right, yeah, yeah, I guess she missed Denver too because that was she was in school then, but yeah, so those are the only two that she’s ever missed, yes, even as a little babe, yeah, so we don’t have like a family photo booth photo from this, yeah, she has them like up on her, on her, you know, cork board in her bedroom. Yeah, I know he has all the NTG. In like the photo, you know, yeah, parent, yes. Um, How’s, uh, you know? How, how are things, uh, how’s the team, how’s the team doing? Thank you for asking. Um. I, I’m just looking because they’re in that room. That’s our, that’s our staff office so that we can see if there’s any issues, but that’s where everybody’s working the halls on fire or something. You’ll see it’s like a uh um called um smoke towers or fire towers. So, so we’re on, we’re we’re down on the floor, but up maybe 40 ft or something there’s windows and that you’re saying that’s the it’s like in the mall, you know, where the security is behind the one-way glass up above, yeah, that’s, yeah, so staffs up there’s too high, we can’t see in you know staff is OK, I think. Like Any any organizations group of staff, you know, there’s. A staff person dealing with this other issue that’s not work related and somebody you know caring for a relative and somebody trying to help their kid that’s having this struggle is that you know so. Uh, the team is OK. We’re a great team and folks have just been like. Even reflecting in real time like God we’re just like showing up for each other so strong and we feel so like happy to get to show up for each other these these few days together but also try to hold that like you know behind that or underneath that or around that. Life is hard for everyone right now in so many ways that have nothing to do with putting on a conference or or replying to your work emails or you know it’s just like everyone is always carrying these these other things that they’re thinking about um and we know and we’ve and we’ve heard from community members as we do every year that. We want the NTC to be a place where like you can set all those burdens down like it’s OK to talk about all of that stuff you know this is not like a perfect professional face you know like what does that mean? What what is my professional? I don’t know. You know, but also I think it’s a little bit hard for staff to feel like they get to do that too when we’re working so hard to create that space for the community because we’re also like on radio and calling catering and you know we’re like doing all these other logistic pieces so in some ways the staff like miss out on the on the best opportunity to do that that we have every year because we we’re we’re kind of behind the scenes but usually on Friday. Less logistics are happening because it’s the final day of the conference and then you know all but one or two people will get to be at the general session and listen to the keynote and everybody will get to like just go to a bird’s table at lunch or go you know people will really get to kind of come out and and. Enjoy it for a little bit. And when does the team depart on Saturday? Yeah, we fly out on Saturday. Oh yeah, we’ll, I mean Friday, Friday afternoon. Oh yeah, our stuff is getting palletized and taken away at 3 p.m. tomorrow. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yes, and like we have volunteers, we have, you know, we have um. I mean it’s end 10. We have a spreadsheet, you know, and every storage bin is numbered and we know what goes in bin number 1 and bin number 2 and you know you just look at the spreadsheet and everybody knows what has to go. I see. Of course we have a spreadsheet for that. Yeah, wonderful, um. Yeah, I would say, and I’ve told others this, uh, this is, this is, I think this is the 11th, uh, NTC that nonprofit radio has come to, yeah, uh, I think it’s the best. I do, I do, you’re just saying that because I’m sitting here and I’ll push you off the yoga ball. I said it to somebody else. No, it’s, yeah, you know, you know, uh, no, I really do admire the open plan. I love. It’s, yeah, it’s just a better feeling, you know it’s not a congested feeling we’re not confined to a 10 by 10 cell. Right and like just from an attendee’s perspective, you know, we didn’t want to shrink it down to only a room of 1800 chairs in theater seating or something, you know, like there’s all this open space. Do you wanna just sit on the floor and build Lego? Go for it, you know, you wanna drag a chair away from a table and talk to somebody else? Go for it. Right, we, we, it’s called a pre-con when before you have an event we have a meeting with, you know, the head of every part of the facility, right, uh, like here’s the security, right, like, you know, one rep from every part of the building comes and you have this precon meeting. And they are like, OK, who are you? it’s like just the day before or a couple of days before or is this we do we do it, no, no, no, we do it Monday so you’re on site, you’re like ready to go. You’re starting to load in and usually events that do this like send one rep from N10 right? we send all of us, all 16 of us show up because each of us are here, right? And you’re supposed to say like, you know, is there any info about your attendees? Is there anything the team should know, you know, and we say. If our attendees want a chair move, that chair is moving. Right, you’re not radioing me for like an approval. If attendees walk up to you and say the water is out, you’re refilling the water, right? Like this community is making the space. Our job was just to make sure water stored in there 16 of us right that you can take direction from, yes, and I mean if they say we’d like a whole another part of the building and could you bring catering there that please don’t do without our approval. Right, but we really want to have a, a place that is just open. Make it. Do put the chair where you want it to be, right? Like Ryan, bring your penguins and set them up. Apparently everybody’s like putting in the chat who gets to take them home, you know, like that feels like a gift to ourselves and hopefully a contribution that’s additive to the sector to to have a space that’s like that or that tries to say. What does it look like? We’re, we’re not a trade show. We’ve never been an actual trade show, but what does it look like to say, yeah, there’s no booths, just talk to each other. And honestly like there are some providers who are here for the very first time and they’re like what? What am I doing? What, what am I supposed to do, right? So we need to do a better job of setting people up whether they’re a provider or a sponsor or just, you know, attendee what to expect, what do you, what does it mean to just walk into this huge room and pick, pick a velvet couch to sit on and talk to somebody, you know, but just walk up yeah um. I, I, I just heard someone’s heels. I, I looked because I thought I heard pickle. I thought it was pickleball, but there is pickleball here. We have there’s pickle ball. There’s ping pong. Oh yes, and the pickle ball tournament yesterday, you know, it ended in, I’m not gonna say controversy, um, but it was heated because E0’s very own Carl came in 2nd place and he desperately would like that trophy. Is there a rule about employees? No, no, no, no, but Carl keeps he has spent a year reminding everyone that last year in pickleball he lost in the first round, but to the eventual winner. Right, it’s just, it’s just like, you know, the, the drama of a bracket process and so he wanted to redeem himself this year, right? He made it all the way to section. Yes, right, Carl. Alright, alright, and Carl is celebrating, I think, 18 years as an N0 staff person. He’s our IT director. He started as an AmeriCorps Vista. That’s incredible. Yeah, is he the longest? He’s the longest. And then how many years are you since membership I’ve been, I’ve been, I started at the NTC like the, you know, two days before 11 NTC was my first day as membership directors, um, and, and Ailey’s right behind me at 13. 0, she’s she’s outstanding. She curated this table that we’re sitting at. Uh, she got the chairs that we’re sitting on, um, she chose this spot for you all to be able to see everybody coming in visibility. Yes, it’s very nice. Yeah, Ali on her game, her thank you. All right, I know you’re busy. Thank you, CEO. I hope Aria was a nice surprise. It was such a gift. Thank you for doing that. I so appreciate it. I’m gonna tell the whole team with our at our daily debrief, um, and. And I look forward to the next time Gene and I get to be on the show and I have slept in some reasonable amount of hours prior to talking into the microphone, but I really value you being here and creating a digital platform for so many of our community members to get to share, you know, all of their smarts beyond these walls. So thanks for thanks for the collaboration. Yeah, lots more. OK. Amy Semple Ward, they’re the CEO of N10. They’re our technology contributor here at uh nonprofit Radio. Thank you. Um, and thank you for correcting me, parent, parent, yeah, yeah, you’re right. I mean, I know you’re right, but thank you for the, thank you for the correction. I’m, I’m a trainable boomer. You’re very trainable. We’ll leave it there. Thank you also for being uh with with uh nonprofit Radio’s coverage of 25 NTC where we are sponsored by Heller Consulting technology services for nonprofits. It’s time for a break. Imagine a fundraising partner that not only helps you raise more money, but also supports you in retaining your donors. A partner that helps you raise funds both online and on location so you can grow your impact faster. That’s Donor Box, a comprehensive suite of tools, services and resources that gives fundraisers just like you, a custom solution to tackle your unique challenges. Helping you achieve the growth and sustainability your organization needs. Helping you, help others. Visit donorbox.org to learn more. Now it’s time for the human factors driving your CRM success. Welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio coverage of 25 NTC, the 2025 nonprofit Technology Conference. We’re at the Baltimore Convention Center, where we are sponsored by Heller Consulting technology services for nonprofits. My guest now is Ruben Singh. He is founder and CEO of 1/10 Consulting. Ruben, welcome back to nonprofit Radio. Thanks for having me, Tony. Good to see you again. This is, I think your 3rd, maybe 4th, 4th you’re counting, you’re more accurate than I am. Um, your session this year is the human factors driving nonprofit CRM success. Uh, I don’t know, I wonder, do you see people often or organizations often blaming technology when the problem is more team and human? Yeah, that’s exactly the the premise of it, Tony. I, I, um, uh, I’ve I’ve often found myself as a consultant coming into situations where Um, you know, the client we’re working with at the prospect we’re speaking with says, ah, we need Salesforce or we need, you know, uh, this particular solution or virtuous or something else, um, and, uh, you know, because they’ve had a bad experience with the technology that they were with, uh, and so, uh, as I’ve seen this so much throughout my career, um, and then you know you start peeling back the layers of the onions. And then you see, oh well, you know, the business processes are not fully defined. There’s not, you know, a plan for adoption, there’s not a plan for governance, uh, and so what I’ve realized is that, um, often times, uh, where the, the, the failures happen have really has nothing to do with the technology at all. So yes, that’s exactly what the premises of this uh of this um workshop. So the symptom I don’t know, cycling through, uh, platforms like, oh we need Salesforce, and then they have Salesforce for 3 or 4 years and then they realize, oh, no, Salesforce wasn’t really the solution. Now we need we need the Microsoft platform, right? Does it happen like that? That’s definitely a part of it. I think there’s also, you know, just there’s always this sense of urgency um as new technology comes along. Um, that uh we don’t, if we don’t innovate, we’re gonna fall behind, um, and we’re seeing a lot with, you know, AI now as well. Um, it’s, it’s no different, you know, everyone say well if you’re not using AI for your solutions, uh, you know, you’re, you’re gonna be left behind, you’re gonna, your organization’s gonna fail when really. Um, that is, that is really forcing organizations to adopt certain things that they’re not, they may not be ready for their, their processes may not be in place, their data might not be ready. So, um, so just like we’re seeing right now with, you know, the latest trend of technology, um, feel the organizations we work with just feel compelled to to to rush into whatever the particular trend is, um, and sometimes there’s business pressure also. Uh, you know, if this particular system failed, you know, new, new CTO comes in and says, ah, I need to prove myself or I need to get something going, so oftentimes they try to get the, the, the cart before the horse. You mentioned business processes a couple of times. What what kind of processes should we, so now we’re getting to what the human factors are that you need to have in place for the technology to be successful for the CRM. Well, what kinds of business processes are you looking for? Sure. Well, um, first, are they defined, are they documented? You’d be surprised how many nonprofits I walk into where, you know, they could be operating just fine, um, but there’s no nothing really documented and that’s fine, that’s where, you know, consultants like ourselves who would come in and help, uh, understand them, review them, define them. Um, and then there’s some that are just, uh, not very, uh, as you as you learn more about their business processes, you see that there’s, um, just inefficiencies, uh, that are there as well. So what kinds of business processes are we talking about? Just some examples. Yeah, um, fundraising, for example, so check come, you know, stack of checks come in, you know, what are the different processes to get that data entered into the system, or it might be donor advised funds, you know, what is the process around that? Or you know, we have a uh uh a series of files that need to be uploaded or it could be an application. process for programs uh that that might be so it it it could be um the grant distribution process what’s the reviews and applications that process who needs to review, who needs to approve before a grant might be approved. So, um, so there’s really a cross grant making fundraising program delivery um there’s there’s all kinds of steps that needed to happen and we ultimately want the the system, the technology to make it work as efficiently as possible. So we we we heavily rely on business processes to make sure that we’re. Um, that we’re creating things that ultimately makes the systems more efficient. So the technology is supporting the business processes not not we’re not relying on the technology for the business process, but it’s, it’s supplementing what our processes are. That’s exactly it. I would, I would add one more thing to that, you know, in addition to the technology supporting the business process, it also has to support the strategy. So that’s kind of one of the other points that we’re gonna be talking about later on today. Um, is to make sure that there’s a clear strategy. What is it that as an organization you’re trying to solve, um, how do you know that you’re successful? What are those markers or indicators to confirm that you’ve, that you’ve, you’re successful because we want again the technology to support that, uh, we want the technology to be able to track and report and monitor to make sure you’re meeting your goals, so. Uh, as a technologist, it’s a little bit tricky sometimes because they, they, you know, the clients often expect us to come in with a technical solution and, you know, code this and configure that, but we, we like to kind of step back and say, you know, what is it that you’re trying to solve? What’s your strategy? How do things work? Where can we create some efficiencies, then we start building. OK. Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s often important to have that consultant perspective to take a step back because you’re, you’re probably often. Uh, at 110th Consulting, and I’m, I’m gonna ask you to remind listeners why it’s 110. I think I remember, but we’ll get to that, we’ll get to that shortly. Um, you know, you’re, you’re often, um, confronted with, you know, we need, we need new technology. That is not our, that’s not our feedback. Amy. It is, it is feedback. OK. OK. There we go. Thank you. Oh, can you just try it with a lower volume? We’re uh we’re we’re, you can tell we’re live here at we’re, we’re just turning on the loudspeaker because the plenary session just ended, so we have a we have a loudspeaker and it was feeding back. OK, so that was us, that was us. Tala. All right, we’re accountable. I’m accountable. I feedback. It’s time for Tony’s Take too. Thank you, Kate. We’ve got a new tale from the gym introducing you to Roy. Uh, I met Roy by. Same way I hear about lots of people, uh, overhearing other people talking about Roy, uh, after he had left. And I know who he is. I’ve, I’ve seen him around. Uh, I’d say Roy is probably early to mid 70s. And the, the thing that the uh the two guys talking about Roy were focused on. Was that, um, well, he talks a lot, I agree. Uh, and he doesn’t put the weights away after he uses this one machine that he focuses on a lot, spends a lot of time on, and, and he actually grunts a lot when he’s on this bench press type machine. Uh, I had not noticed that he doesn’t take the weights off like you’re supposed to, but these two, guys did, uh, as well as talking about how chatty he is, and, you know, that he, he like, uh, just spends too much time in between his sets. Talking to other people. Maybe even annoying other people, uh, they did, they didn’t say that, but. They didn’t like how much he talks, and they don’t like that he doesn’t put the weights away. So I was, uh, so I was keeping an eye on Roy, you know, after I saw, I saw him again, and, um, word must have got to him about the weight part. Uh, he didn’t, he didn’t talk any less, still very chatty between sets. But he did start putting his weights away after he was done, takes them off the machine, puts them back on the rack where they get stored. So that’s good. So Roy did uh improve his bad gym behavior. Now, how did he get wind of the idea? That he’s not. Practicing good gym etiquette, I don’t know. Uh, I, I, I had nothing to do with it. I just stay out and listen and, and I happened to watch well, cause I heard about Roy once I learned his name, so then I was paying more attention, and that’s when I saw that he, he, uh, exercised good gym etiquette. So, but how he came to change his ways, I don’t know. I swear I had nothing to do with it. So that’s Roy at the gym, uh, along with many of our other characters I’ve introduced you to, uh, through the, through the many months. Roy at the gym, the community gym where I work out, uh, 44 times a week. And that is Tony’s take 2. OK. Are you sure you haven’t spoken to Roy before? Because he sounds familiar. I don’t think so. You might be, you might be thinking of Rob, Rob. There was Rob. He was the Marine Corps. Remember Semper Fi? He was talking to a another former Marine, and they ended their conversation with Semper Fi, the the Marine Corps motto. You might be thinking of Rob. I, I’ve seen Roy, but I never knew his name. OK. Hm. A lot of our names that are short. Well, it’s a couple. Try to keep track of all the characters at the community gym where I go, try to, maybe we should start a database. We should do, maybe we should start a CRM database. We said. We’ve got Fuku butlers more time. Here’s the rest of the human factors driving your CRM success with Rubin Singh. So you’re often confronted with our technology sucks, you know, we need this platform is not working for us. Nobody, I don’t know, nobody ever seemed to have learned it right. It doesn’t, it doesn’t work with what we’re doing, what we’re trying to do, and but you need to step back and say that there may very well be something deeper than your platform. OK. Absolutely, and you know there there’s there’s that and and I’d say also there’s been times if I’m being totally honest, Tony, where I’ve don’t don’t don’t be disingenuous, don’t lie to no I can’t do that, um, but, uh, you know, I’ve I’ve been part of teams early, early in my career where, um, you know, we have, we’ve completed the project. We have finished on time, we’ve finished on budget, we checked all the boxes for all the requirements that we met, but at the end of the project, at the end of the go live, honestly I, I felt kind of uncomfortable. I felt uneasy. I felt sick to my stomach because I knew that despite all the things that we’ve done for the technology, the nonprofit is not set up for success in the long run. Uh, some of the ways that I sense that were, um, they, you know, maybe all the users were really excited about the technology, but maybe the leadership was not fully on board, so they may not have, um, you know, they have not modified their processes, how they’re gonna do reporting, how they’re going to measure progress, how they’re going to measure performance, um, if they’re not really bought into the system, um, the whole thing’s going to fail. Um, also another key thing is governance. For leadership, the leadership buy-in is essential, uh, I think we may have talked about, or if it wasn’t you, it was another NTC how to get that leadership. It’s, if, if, if the leadership isn’t committed, leaders who are listening, CEOs, uh, executive directors listening, if you’re not completely committed, I mean your teams, your teams know that they figure it out and their commitment, uh, uh, is gonna be equivalent to yours for sure. If you could spend tens of $1000 on a on a new CRM system, if not more, but if you as a leader are gonna say, OK, you know, fundraising meeting, you know, fundraising, you know, check-in is going to be on Monday and everybody bring your spreadsheets, um, forget, you can forget the investment that you made in that CRM system, you’ve lost adoption right there holistic look remind us why your your company is one. Yeah, you know, well, um, you know, we’ve exclusively worked with nonprofits and, and very early in our, in our startup phase, uh, we worked with a lot of, um, uh, faith-based organizations, um, and, uh, it was, it was funny that as I was working with different organizations whether it was a synagogue or a church or a mosque or or cordura. Um, they all seem to have this 10% concept, this giving back of 10%, uh, to back to the community, back to causes, back to the good of, of the whole, um, and I thought that, you know, despite all these different faith traditions being so different, there was something that was, uh, you was a common thread amongst many of them, and so that’s kind of where 1/10 the consulting came from, yeah. I had it close. I thought it was, I thought it was giving I was giving back, but giving back 1/10. Yes, exactly, exactly, um, you, you, uh, your session description talks about inclusive design as a as a means to. Achieve the the CRM success that we’re looking for. Uh, say, say more about the design process, inclusivity. Yeah, well, well, we feel strongly that any technology that is meant for everyone should uh include as many people as possible as part of the design, otherwise, um, there’s gonna be blind spots. Um, uh, you know, this might seem, uh, you know, unrelated, but I was reading some stories about how when Um, uh, there’s crash test dummies, um, were being used, um, to test the safety of vehicles. They were based on a male body of 5′ 970 pounds and, um, the, and as is the 2011 University of Virginia study that showed that women were much more likely to be harmed or hurt in an accident. Um, than men were and 47% more it was like a pretty ridiculous number, so, um, just makes you wonder like when, when these vehicles and safety were designed and assessed, were they really thinking about different body types, different people? Well, the same thing applies to, you know, technology, um, the story I often give people is, um, you know, even my own parents, my, my elderly, uh, you know, parents, you know, from an immigrant community when they signed up for the COVID vaccine. Um, it was a process that was clearly not designed for immigrants and it was not designed for elderly, um, you know, it was, it was a the application form was very, uh, cumbersome. There was a lot of information you had to have, have prepared you cited this in a year or two in the past, yeah, the online form was not, uh, well, not user friendly for 70 or 80 year old, yeah, yeah, and so. Um, and, and so like, and then you, you also hear that uh well the immigrant communities are not signing up for the vaccine and, and it’s a public health problem. So, um, you know we feel that CRM is the same day is the same way that um it often times I walk into a room for a design session and I have the IT professionals there or because they’re the ones who can give us the quickest answers, um, or we have the people who are like the quote unquote super users who are the most technically proficient. Um, but you know, to me, if we really want to have inclusive design, we really want to see what who who’s not at the table. Let’s maybe have people of different ages, different technical proficiency, different, you know, socioeconomic, different uh parts on the company hierarchy because if this system is really designed for everybody, we need to get as many different thoughts, ideas, perspectives involved, um, to me, uh, often times if we overlook that, um, it, it, it ends up being a gap that we have to fix later. Um, you, uh, you also cite, um, this being valuable for uh professional growth. How is that? Yeah, and this is something, uh, as I get older, Tony, I’ve been reflecting on on a lot and uh I’ve been, um, I’ve I’ve felt this in my professional career and I’ve I’ve had the um privilege to uh teach as an adjunct professor close by here at University of Maryland Baltimore County. And it’s something I often tell my students, it’s like, um, you know, if, if you really want to be good consultants in this space, um. You know, we, we often times focus on the, the, the credentials or the certifications and you know we go crazy with the certifications and, and you know so we can present that and say, ah this is, you know, this is who we are but in my experience what’s been most useful and also has been useful to to the success of our projects is really being an expert in the industry that you’re working with, being passionate about the industries that you’re working in. Um, so for for us we tend to have a focus on the social justice sector, um, and it’s, you know, in my tradition, in my blood, and my, in my, uh, upbringing to be working with these types of organizations and really understanding the ins and outs of, of these organizations, and I feel like that’s been able to, um, uh, it’s it’s been something I’ve been uh able to bring to my projects, bring to my implementations, um, and the love and care that we give our clients and. It’s, it’s been very helpful so it’s something I, I encourage folks to, um, you know, to, to work on becoming experts work on becoming um keeping up to date with what’s going on in the industry so if you’re a nonprofit technology consultant being fully aware with the challenges with grant making or you know how government funding might be affected these days or you know taking an opinion on how AI can help or harm uh nonprofits. Uh, taking an opinion on data privacy and where it fits, so, uh, what I’ve seen is that what our clients need is not just, just people who are experts at the technology, but experts at the industry that they’re working in. And what about professional growth for for folks in nonprofits as they’re looking at their own businesses? I mean this is sort of a broadening exercise where folks are learning. there as you’re you’re suggesting for consultants, the folks nonprofits learning outside their own areas of expertise. Yes, yes, absolutely, um, an example of that is, you know, uh, to me I realize that, you know, equity and and technology is, is, is ultimately, you know, uh, it’s super important for inclusive design and inclusive systems, um, so for me that meant, um, I was gonna become a. A certified DEI practitioner, um, so I went and, you know, went through the classes, got my certification, and, and that was something that I, I wanted to make sure that was part of who, who I was. So while you might think that this might not be part of your part of your, um, technical credential, um, this might not be part of your technical credential, um, it, it having that business credential or having that expertise was super important, um. Another example could be change management. Um, so if, if you feel that change management, excuse me, change management is something that you’re passionate about, by all means become a certified credential change management professional because it’s only going to make all your projects, uh, more successful. Get you outside your comfort zone. Yeah, I mean I think there’s I think there’s value in that. I’ve I’ve seen it professionally, um. Just, you know, challenging, challenging yourself, you know, outside outside your normal boundaries and and and it really applies to any industry, so as I tell my students, if you’re a The technology is everywhere, so you know if you wanna do fashion tech, become an expert in the fashion side of it a sports tech, become an expert in the sports side of it doesn’t really matter, um, but it’s really just about, you know, what my clients over 27 years of of of this work, um, they don’t really care how many salesforce certifications I have. They don’t really care about, you know, what they, what they care about is do I understand them? Do I understand their business, do I, you know, what, what else do I bring to the table? There’s lots of tech consultants out there, but what else do you bring to the table? So it sounds like we’re in your backyard, uh NTC. You teach at University of Maryland Baltimore County. Yes, yes, yes, just uh uh right right outside 20 minutes from here, so it’s nice, we’ll see you again next year. I don’t do you know where next year’s is? I believe Detroit, but, uh, wherever it’s gonna be, I’ll be there. We’ll be together. Um, what else, what else are you gonna share on this topic that, uh, you and I haven’t talked about yet? Um, we are gonna, I think the one other thing, and, um, it’s not something I talked about, you know, a few years ago, but it’s just so much more relevant now is, um, you know, again as far as the, the human factors that that uh affect CRM, it’s also uh looking at um, you know, how bias and discrimination can make their way into the systems, um, so whether it is algorithms that are built, whether it’s AI models, um, and, uh, making sure that we have. Checks and balances in place to ensure that the data is um not toxic in any ways or or the data is not skewing results in a in a way that could um hurt or harm communities. I think one example I if I can give a specific is, you know, if you are a nonprofit that uses an algorithm for recruitment volunteer recruitment or application reviews, um, you know, making sure that those do not, uh, uh, create skewed results, making sure that. There’s a checks and balances process to make sure that that that the results are not discriminatory, that they’re fair, they’re unbiased, um, and that’s something that, um, organizations are really grappling with how do we do that? So I have some, some models that I’m gonna be sharing as well today that I’m pretty excited about on on how you can create some checks and balances. Yeah, um, I mean it’s uh I wish I wish I had my diagram I could bring up here too. Yeah, but um, yeah, yeah, um, but it’s basically just um being intentional about, OK, you know, if again starting with strategy, so let’s say it’s a volunteer recruitment plan and you say, you know, I and I had a lot of this well we want to increase our, our diversity in our recruit in our volunteer pool so you know it’s, it’s basically setting some measures for that. um, we wanna have 20% of, of this particular demographic or 40% of this and then it’s really just um creating some checks and balances just like in any. Um, in any implementation of of technology there’s gonna be a, a testing phase, there’s gonna be a data validation phase. So what what I’m proposing is we also have a a a a a bias detection phase. We also have a, um, you know, um, uh, a sort of um discrimination and bias, uh, check that we essentially do so in that case we will just like we have parameters to say these are the percentages we’re looking for, what are the results for it? So, um, so it’s, it’s not rocket science, but, but it’s really just making sure that when we build our test plans out that we’re also checking for bias and discrimination. I know a lot of work on LinkedIn. Have you written a book? Um, in the works, Tony, in the works you mentioned it or maybe I’m just that you ought to write a book. OK, uh, you’re working on a book, um, early stages, yes. But um but yeah, now there’s I’ve I’ve kind of captured a lot of thoughts um over the years about this and you know these are things that were just kind of things I uh thought about, you know, like uh you know this doesn’t feel right or this could be done in a more equitable way or this is this is not really doing good. Even though we’re calling it tech for good, um, and then, you know, being in communities like this at N10 and NTC, uh, made me realize, oh, I’m not the only one who thinks like this. There’s others who who are who have also found some weird stuff in out there in the implementation world and and I think, um, you know, as a consultant who, who now has started my own practice, um, I realized, you know, I don’t have to just continue being part of the problem, you know, I can. Uh, I can try to shift some things and, and, um, share my stories to, to make sure that we, we, we, we collectively do better. OK, now, you know, I imagine you’re, you’re part of a minority faith community in the United States. How does that inform your practice or or how does it open your eyes to the inequities that that we were you know, you’re doing more to fight than I am. I bring voice to them, but you’re actually doing. Well, well bringing to it is is very important, so I appreciate that you do that, Tony. Um, uh, yes, as part of the sick tradition I think um it’s it’s a few things. um, I mean it really does fuel a lot of my work, um, you know, the sick tradition is a very um deep in in community service and in justice and in collective liberation, so it it really is a fuel for, you know, the, the, the focus on the social justice sector. Um, but I would say, yeah, absolutely, you know, being a visible minority does, uh, help me have, uh, that the radar is always on. Um, you know, and, um, I, I’m, I’m very aware, hyper aware of of things that just don’t feel right or that that that that don’t sit well with me, whether it’s happening to me or someone else, um, so you know, early on in my career I was, you know, thinking to myself, ah, you know, I’m just learning the ropes, let me just follow along what everybody else is doing and you know, different practices that might happen in in implementations themselves and technology implementations. I’ll just go along with it. It’s fine, um, but now I, I didn’t it right, yeah, so now I kind of sense that, you know, I feel that agency that I can, you know, I can, I can speak my mind, I can step forward and say, yeah, you know, this, this persona building exercise we’re doing for marketing, you know, of, you know, guessing what. Different races and demographics might feel about our work. Yeah, it doesn’t, that’s not great. That’s there’s other ways to to get that information that doesn’t sit here and, and, you know, enable stereotypes, uh, you know, we can use archetypes, we can, you know, we can ask people directly why they could come to our nonprofit or don’t come. So there’s there’s alternatives out there, you know, the tried and true methods are not always the best, um, they’re not always the most equitable, so you know, let’s let’s brainstorm other alternatives. Did finding that agency come from starting your own business or before then? I think it was a combination of being in circles of other technologists of color that, you know, where I, I felt very empowered and said, ah, you know, we’re not the only ones, you know, like other people feel this way and collectively. You know, there’s things we can do better, um, and then yes, starting the company and I I recognize that comes with privilege, um, and not everybody can speak out the way that they want to, but, but definitely starting starting my own practice and being very transparent with my customers about, hey, this is who we are, this is what we’re about. If we see something that doesn’t feel right or that the data that you’re requesting from your clients is is overreaching, we’re gonna, we’re gonna raise our hand and and you know what I thought might have deterred. Customers is actually um uh had customers gravitate towards us. They want to be held accountable. Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m glad you found your voice it’s always good to see you, thank you very much. Thanks so much. My pleasure. Singer and CEO. Thank you for joining us for our. 2025 nonprofit technology conference coverage in the Baltimore Convention Center and thanks to Heller Consulting technology services for nonprofits for sponsoring nonprofit radio at 25 NTC. Next week, more from 25 NTC PII in the age of AI. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you. Find it at Tony Martignetti.com. We’re sponsored by DonorBox. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters’ generosity. Donor box, fast, flexible, and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit, Donorbox.org. I’m gonna miss that alliteration. Donor box is going away this week. Fast, flexible, friendly, fundraising forms. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer Kate Martignetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Be with us next week for nonprofit Radio, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.
We launch our 25NTC coverage with the CEO of 
Don’t blame your tech first when it feels like your CRM database is letting you down. Human beings, the tech users, have responsibilities that precede, and must align with, your technology. Rubin Singh returns to enlighten us about business processes; inclusive design; personal and professional growth; and more human factors that impact the success of your CRM database. He’s founder and CEO of 