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Nonprofit Radio for February 28, 2014: Increase And Engage Web Traffic & Moving To The Cloud

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Sophia Latto & Mike Snusz: Increase And Engage Web Traffic

Sophia Latto & Mike Snusz
Sophia Latto & Mike Snusz

From bbcon 2013, Sophia Latto, principal consultant at Blackbaud, and Mike Snusz, senior internet marketing consultant at Blackbaud, uncover strategies to use metrics—beyond Google Analytics—to help you increase web traffic and engage visitors.

 

 

 

Scott Koegler: Moving To The Cloud

scottkoegler2009-150Scott Koegler returns to talk you through moving your critical functions—think donor management and payroll—to cloud computing. Scott is our technology contributor and editor of Nonprofit Technology News.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio you know what you’ll find here? Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent? Of course i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i am glad that you’re with me. I’d suffer the unsightly nous of eruptive xanthou mma if it came to my attention that you missed today’s show increase and engage web traffic from b become twenty thirteen sofia latto, principal consultant, that blackbaud and mike’s news senior internet marketing consultant that blackbaud uncover strategies to use metrics beyond google analytics to help you increase web traffic and engage visitors and moving to the cloud. Scott kegel returns to talk you through moving your critical functions think dahna management and payroll, for instance, to cloud computing. Scott is our technology contributor and editor of non-profit technology news, so i covered that up on today’s. Tony’s take two between the guests non-profit radio news. We’re sponsored by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising and by t b r c saving you money on credit card processing fees. Let’s go right now to the interview from bb khan twenty thirteen about increasing and engaging web traffic. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty thirteen we’re at the gaylord convention center outside washington, d c and maryland with me are sofia latto and mike’s news. Sofia is a principal consultant for blackbaud on mike is senior internet marketing consultant also a blackbaud sofia, mike, welcome. Thank you. Thanks, tony it’s a pleasure to have you both you’re workshop of topic is tactics twenty tactics pardon me, teo. Increase in engage web traffic. I don’t want to don’t want to undermine already. You have twenty ideas. I’m i’m guessing that this starts with analytics. Mike, you wantto where do we begin? Yeah, yeah. So we had four different kind of topics or or categories for the different sessions, but a lot of it was based on ah, analytics and how non-profits are kind of under utilizing some ways to increase traffic things like search engine traffic and what tools are out there. What house search has changed in the past couple of years and even in the last week and and basically how they can take advantage of these to do some of the things that the corporate marketing world relies on heavily to increase it engaged traffic so we shouldn’t be fearing what we can learn from the for-profit sector? No, no, not at all, and i know it’s a little scary sometimes for non-profits they have limited staff, they have people who have different backgrounds that may not be an area they have expertise in, but there’s a lot that they can actually do to kind of stand out from other non-profits, for example, search engine results have changed quite a bit in the last year or two there’s a lot more local results coming up. When you search for, say, high schools, you’ll see high school’s around where you’re searching so google’s pretty smart google knows that you’re probably looking for something around your area, and so this is an opportunity for non-profits to have a better chance to drive traffic for mohr kind of general words like volunteers and events and things that previously they may not have come up that high, but now if they if they localised search engine optimization, they could drive more traffic that they weren’t getting before. Okay, so you want to say more about this localization of of search results? Well, in terms of localization way actually have ways that people actually use terms in a regional area. So one of the things that we recommended, one of the tools that we talked about was using google trends. And so if you are let’s, say, an organization that’s based in a ocular state and you’re looking for the best phrase phrasing for call the action or maybe a very prominent link on your website, you can actually use google trends to find out if the kind of words that you might be considering are going to be high search words of those popular searches. And you can actually dig down a little bit deeper and get into certain metropolitan area. So places like around florida or metropolitan new york or even in l a and you confined that you’ll you’ll notice regionally, people use different language teo to search information than they do across the u s o in terms of localization, you can actually drill down a little bit closer and get words and phrases for your links and your calls to action that’s going to resonate with your area with your reason region excellent how do we start? With google trends, where do we find that you find it in google analytics and you can go in and what’s nice about google trends is it allows you, teo compare terms with each other to see, so for example, you could take the words like donate, make a gift and give now and run those through google trends, and you confined what people, what words people normally used for searching and if you do that today, you’ll find that the word donate is actually a more popular trending term that people are using in searches. So maybe if you’re if you’re an organization that relies on donations from people let’s, say, you know, hurricane sandy, you’re actually going to help those people and you know that people are searching. Teo give teo a natural disaster. The likelihood of people finding you easier is if you use terms that people search with more often on your calls to acting so donate hurricane sandy relief would actually be a better a better bet for you in terms of driving traffic than saying, you know, give to relieve victims so that it’s just one of the tools that you can use, ok? Outstanding let’s, stay with us. How do you activate google trends in google analytics? It’s actually, nothing that you activate its a simple tool and a lot of search engine optimization professionals might use it for research and so it’s just very simple. You you khun, you know google google trends and get on to that tool and you can pop in terms that you want to compare and then, you know, clicked quick go and it’ll actually show you a nice graph, and then you can start to drill down in certain areas in region. So if you’re an international organization, you can look globally at what trends are, what words are trending, or you can actually dig down a little bit more locally and go to more metropolitan areas. So it’s it’s a handy tool it’s very easy to use like you mentioned search results changing even just within the past week. Yeah, we’re recording on monday, september thirtieth, twenty thirteen what’s happened in the past week. No eso google had a big announcement last week that kind of upset or i guess, i guess less a lot of search engine professionals little bit dismayed that usually in google analytics you can see the phrases people search by to find your organization and a lot of non-profits used this to see, okay, they’re searching for mission names or the name of our organization, and this is data that you can see about who comes to your website. Google announced it to be a little bit more private and to make sure that they’re there respecting people’s privacy is this is not going to be available to non-profits or anybody moving forward that this information about what terms people search by to find your website are no longer going to be available in google analytics, but they will with the word is initial word that they’re still gonna have this and something called google web master tools that a lot of non-profits don’t use and there’s a lot of great information in there. It actually shows a lot of information about people who see you in search results, but they don’t necessarily click through to your website. So now i think the challenge for non-profits is to utilize this a little bit more. It was kind of under the radar tool that organizations weren’t used a web master tools. Let master tools yeah, and this is where it this is where the word is that you’re still gonna be able to see this information. You could go back three months now, and i think they’re going to change it to a year. You can go back and see that data shows a lot of valuable information, so i think that’s going to be one shift for for online marketers and non-profits okay, let’s, help them, then our audience is small and midsize non-profits about nine thousand of them. How do they? Well, first do they need to be a web master with that level of skill to use google web master tools? Yeah, not really, so they can use the same log in that they use for google analytics, right? And it’s just it’s activating google web master tools, there’s a little piece of code you can add onto your website and it starts tracking the information so it’s not a very complex process that they would have to do. Okay, is it more than we can talk through? I mean, where would you find this code if you don’t? You don’t know where the code is, so so. Go to google what master tools just just google it it’ll come up as the first result. Log in with your google log in that you use for analytics for your organization and it’s going to give you very clear instructions a couple of things you can do it different ways you could take a little snippet of code and then you add it to your website. Google makes it pretty easy to do if they can’t find, you know how to do it, then you know somebody, somebody, maybe within the team can do it, do it very easily. So don’t be put off by the name web master tools right now, i have that you don’t need to have that level of skill toe, right? Take advantage of you. Go ahead. So i mean with google there’s there’s such a vast array of things that you can look at and you, khun d’oh, and they cover all skillsets so if you’re not, you know, web master, there are things that you can get from those tools and still use that data, you don’t have to be a genius, but in some cases, you know, some web masters are going to be using those tools for some very high, high level code analysis, so it runs the gamut. Ok, don’t be scared. Yeah, there are things in there for you that you can use. Yes, absolutely. They didn’t think that shooting, good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, you waiting to get in. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. All right, now i know in your in your seminar you went beyond google analytics. Sofia, where did you start? Well, one of the things that we were talking about is, you know, google’s great, because it’s giving you data, it’s giving you numbers and so numbers tell you a story, but they don’t tell you the full story. So, you know, let’s talk about driving traffic to your website and so, you know, getting traffic to your website that’s, something that google is really helpful doing, you know, search engine optimization, you get traffic there, but once you get traffic there, the whole issue is, are you going to engage those people? So, you know, you literally have seconds for somebody to make a decision about your organization. Do they want to engage with you? Do they find you credible? I mean, we’ve all done those searches where you know, you’re clicking on something after a google search, and you get to this hideously design website, it looks like a ransom note and you immediately say that’s, not a credible organization, i don’t want to engage with them and you and you move away, make that decision and within. Like within seconds, we’re five seconds, absolutely. And so, you know, the whole idea is you can actually do some tests to find out if your home page of your landing page is resonating with your audience and, you know, design is what’s going. Teo, draw somebody into your side and it’s goingto make somebody want to click on your site so there are usability test that you can conduct, and one of those is a five second test and that’s a great test that we do a lot with their clients at blackbaud and we do what we do is like, if we’re embarking on a web design, we usually run a primary conversion path. So, for example, a donation will run their original website through a usability test, and we can identify some problems in that conversion path and what’s nice about usability testing as well. Google gives you numbers, you can actually drill down and look in a usability test result and see where people are clicking from step to step within a conversion path, and that can help you identify some issues. Okay, so when we finish a design, we’ll run the same thing through usability. Test the new design and we can actually measure to see if we’ve actually made improvements. Okay, mike, could we get some detail on how we conductor usability? What? Sophia just called a five second usability test. Yeah, way we start that. Yeah, well, i think the tools that the team uses a lot free tools out there or some that are small feet per month usability hub i know is one that you recommend sophia usability hope dot com o k it’s a great tool for another one, i think there’s also, i don’t know off the top of my head, but there’s there’s other ones out there and there’s also ones where you can actually measure convergence on mobile on mobile applications. Well, ok, now would we just google usability test? Is that going to find us the platform? Absolutely. So, mike, summer free and summer lo fi based. Yeah, i think a small monthly fee, but but definitely when you’re thinking about people coming to your side, i think i think that is well worth that. There’s also some other tools. Well, we can talk about when it comes to email testing and getting more from your email that are definitely worth it as well. Yeah, let’s talk about fine let’s talk about email testing to go ahead. Yeah, so so well, i think that’s really one of the underutilized areas that non-profits look to do with their emails so, so much they want to get emails out and they get him out the door. But one of the things that could really improve the result of your email campaigns are testing things like subject lines or you’re called action links. We did a campaign with a back to school campaign last year with an organization, and they went through six different subject lines bef for they found one that really resonated with their recipients at twice the conversion rate, and they were able to use that for the rest of their campaign, and they raised two to three times more money. So it’s he’s really simple things that if non-profits could focus on them and being efficient that they can really help to improve their their email programs. Sophie, i know you. You have some examples of working within different types of testings to get mobile results to get to get other kind of information without on tools that you could use for your emails as well. Ok, so let’s, stick with the mail. Well, how do we start doing this email testing? What are there again? Platforms? Tools or what? Well, a lot it’s a lot of times, they’re they’re right. Within the system where you can, you can utilize within the system, you know you may split up your list into small little chunks or segments and do a test of a subject liner. You may do a test of a lincoln and flexible age simulating, yeah, do it to ten to twenty percent give it a day or two, see which one does better, and then send the winning message to everybody else, and especially with end of your campaigns coming up fund-raising critical time for non-profits to make sure they get the most of their under your campaigns, and there may be a better version of an email that’s out there that’s going to get you more donations hyre conversion rate, a lot of that’s free, a lot of that’s, right within simple email tools that we offer that’s offered out there on and then there’s some ad on things that if you want to dig a little bit deeper and find out who’s opening up a mobile device who is how long they’re seeing your email really, really interesting things are people taking a couple seconds? Are they taking ten or twenty seconds that you can start to find out which of your your messaging and you’re content actually resonated and people people were engaged enough to read it. Okay, we’re gonna get to the mobile twice now in sofia’s nodding every time we’re gonna get to the mobile let’s stick with you, mike. What? What are some of the variables that we should be testing mentioned? Subject line. Yeah, yeah. What else should we be? A be testing. So marketing sherpa does a huge four hundred page study every everything second again marketing sherpa sherpa, they put out a study. And what they found in the last couple years is the effect of elements to test were targeted, targeted audiences and tailoring content to them. Which organizations really should be doing anyways, if i’m interested in a certain aspect of your organization? If you deliver information about that, say it’s a certain type of cancer lung cancer, breast cancer i may respond more to an email about that or an ask about that tailoring, you know, content by audiences, by interest, but if you’ve never done testing before, subject lines are a great place to start way see results and different types, you know, whether they’re intriguing, whether they’re shorter, whether they’re fun or direct testing, what what’s going to resonate their studies out there, but until non-profits tested with their constituents, they don’t actually know what resonates with their comm in situ in bass called the action links or another great variable to test and, you know, when eating meaning the words that are that are that are linked, yeah, yeah, yeah, like donate now we were, you know, that donates going t vs chip in and move on dot org’s uses chipping a lot. Yeah, so that is that what you mean? The wording of the of the clickable links? Yeah, yeah, and sometimes they just say, click here sometimes it’s just register and when you’re scanning e mails using these tools and you see some people just look at it for a second or two, they’re probably going to look at your leg because that stands out. A little bit more and if they just seek, click here. If they say register it’s not really going to tell them what? Why they should do it when they should do it by so testing out, maybe longer legs testing out when you have images, donate buttons, different placement, different colors. You know, the ultimate goal of a lot of e mails is to get people to the next step to your web page. The more you get there, the greater chance you have of raising money, getting people to register. So if you could increase that, click through rate. It’s it’s a great variable to test as you get into your different emails and campaigns. Okay, excellent. Sofia, we contest mobile. I’ve heard i’ve heard rumors to this effect in the past couple minutes, way contest people’s reactions on mobile to our site. Well, it’s not necessarily the reactions on mobile, but one of the important things i mean obviously email is i call it the lava lamp. Its ever changing and you can never figure it out. It’s always a challenge for everyone. There’s. So many e mail readers out there there’s so many different devices, so many different sizes, and so you have a choice of either sending a scalable e mail or response of email, and they’re both very challenging. And so how do you make sure that you’re delivering a good experience a scalable e mail versus a responsive yes on tony martignetti non-profit radio. We have drug in jail that neither of those words or phrases are particularly difficult, but you’re gonna have to define them once the words get put together. All right, so a scalable e mail, it can also be referred to as a mobile, friendly email and that’s, an email that is usually designed a little bit more basic. So it’s usually one column, the fonts are a little bit larger. You usually have very simple copy the links, their very large because the scalable email and also it’s, usually a little bit narrower and it’s designed so that when it gets delivered into a desktop or a tablet or a mobile, it actually scales to the size to fit in the wit. And so you want larger font so that when it scale small for a mobile device, you can read it and you want links that air. That air open that have space around them. So when you put your thumb on that link, you can actually click it when it’s really small, responsive email actually realize on media queries and so a lot of devices that are out there have media queries. And so what it does is it’s actually based on a grid, and it actually performs calculations, and it delivers a different experience and different devices. So your desktop is one experience and it looks great. And then if you deliver let’s, say, on an iphone it’s going to change the configuration based on some calculations and it may stack all your information so you have one nice long, thin email that’s, easy to read and the pot charge sizes change, but it only works for media for devices that have media query. So the good news is it’s going to look great on all of those devices? And the bad news is that all devices have media queer so it’s hard for me to believe that this is all going on, but it’s all going on behind on email message yeah, and it’s a chance. So so when we’re selecting une male provider whether that’s, i guess, a sophisticated pay service there are, or something like e mail, mail champ or or constant contact, we need to know whether it’s sending responsive versus scalable e mail well that’s in the code of the email so it’s not whether they consent it any any email service provider provider consent either one of those e mails, but it’s, how the emails coded so it’s the back in code, the html, and so and so one of the tools that you can use there’s a couple of tools out there, there’s email on acid, which is actually built into eliminate online tool, and you can use another tool called litmus. These work with any email service providers and it’s usually again a small and on fi, and when it does, does it actually take a little bit of code and you run your email through these through this test and it actually will show you what your email looks like and all the e mail readers and all the devices so you can actually start to see how your email is being rendered in all these things. So not everybody. Not every non-profit has a budget. Tohave ah, big testing lab, where they have twenty devices, they can check everything so what’s a little bit better is to use one of these great tools and actually see how your emails being rendered. And then you can make some changes based on, you know, whether or not you feel like you need a scalable e mail. If you’re content, dick state dick takes for scalable or response. If you have a lot of content, you know, maybe you might be working with the response of email. Now the tools you mentioned that that’s working with blackbaud products working illuminate luminant online has email on acid built in to its email tool. Okay, but email on acid is a great tool that’s out there, that’s available to anybody if you’re using male chimp vertical response in the same thing with litmus, let ms dot com that’s another tool that’s great to use, and that will help you actually take a look at how your emails being rendered in. Another thing about these tools is that especially litmus, they actually have a subject line. They show you what your subject line looks like an email inboxes and it actually helps you look at your pre header techs to see how that works with your subject. What is your pre header text? Well, if you have a mobile device and you take a look at your inbox, you see that there’s a subject line and then there’s about eighty to one hundred falik isn’t usually if you can’t read this message, but that seems like a waste. It is the way it’s doing it wrong. Okay. All right. So this is this is usable landscape, arable land on an e mail that is being wasted. These the way i usually see them is if you can’t view this properly, etcetera. Right. What first, mike, how do we how do we get into this pretender? Text? Where is it? S so it’s it’s usually the opening tex of your email. It can also be coded into an email if you want something different than what? What is the first line? Or the first couple of lines? But what’s interesting is a lot of emails. Usually at the top of the newsletter is something else. Save you this in a browser view this in some other technical language. You know courtney, your show you can throw people in jail for using these people don’t always understand this and having that, when they see that with the subject line there’s a disconnect, they see a subject line on one subject. They see the technical jargon the really good non-profits it are taking advantage of this and doing it the right way, they use their subject line together with the pre header to really engage people. So the subject line may start to engage you with one element of the campaign or what what’s contained in the email and then the pre header gives you more information. I think one example comes to mind best friends, animal society did a really good campaign last year with the subject line talked about e-giving toe animals and then the pre header actually went a little bit further and engaged you enough. So you wanted to open up the email because in your inbox, it’s, very easy for people just to delete your email out out of the inbox on mobile devices, everything else, and so the real challenge is getting them to the next step, and the pre header could really help to engage if it’s. Taken advantage of it. Compliments the subject line. Okay. Excellent. I just assumed that that was uncontrollable. I don’t know so many. So many of them are abysmal. As you said, mike. Okay, uh, we have, like, another three minutes or so left. What else? Sofia let’s. Go back to you think you’re looking at mike. I’m gonna go. I’m gonna shake you up, but i think what’s, uh, what happened? I ask you about what more can we share about this? Well, i can i can actually share one simple thing that i actually mentioned a mike and mike said, wow, i never really thought about that. And so one of the things that i shared with the group this morning, as i said, think mobile first when you’re making social media posts and the reason is that most people are looking at social media on their mobile device. And so i start to think about putting your information at the top of your social media post to make sure that they see the important information. And then the most crucial part of this is any page that you’re linking through social media, it better be responsive and it better be mobile friendly because if you’re driving people to your site and they’re going to your site on a mobile device, you have to make sure that that experience is good for them when they’re coming to your site and they’re getting a desktop site on their mobile device, they’re going to leave. So always think mobile first, when you’re posting for social media, all right? And then how do we go ahead and optimize those pages that we are sending two for mobile? How do you do that? You cannot create a mobile page or a mobile, a micro mobile site that you can use for for special landing pages and actions that you want teo draw people into, or you can create a response of website so that your website actually looks great on all the devices. Okay, can it also be a simple if you have a wordpress site is just turning on the mobile theme? Is that going to do what you’re talking about? I believe so, but i don’t know this for sure, but yes, i think so. Okay. Okay. We got another minute behalf. Mike, what do you want? What you want to? Wrap up with yeah, so i would say a thing to focus on better email sign up process, so email generate online donations greatest source of online donation generator, but non-profits don’t always put a great emphasis on female sign up on their home page on their internal pages. It’s sometimes buried have abetter process where it’s prominent on your home page, he tried to convert people on internal pages when they go to the form, have it engaging, tell them what they’re going to get, overcome their objections of too much email. Repeat that in the confirmation e mail. If non-profits khun grow their email list, they’re going to have a greater chance of raising more money online from email. See, the thing is that i would say if they haven’t checked out youtube’s non-profit program, they should sign up for that because all of these videos that are out there that are compelling that caused people to donate. If you sign up for youtube’s non-profit program, you could put a link at the end of the video or in it, where people can click on it and go to donate right from there rather than seeing videos of kittens or dogs or anything else on youtube that may distract them after they watch it? There’s a call to action that takes them right to your donation form could really look to boost could versions that way by by signing up for that program and utilizing those links. Where do you find that youtube program for-profit good. Sign up. Youtube dot com slash non-profits. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. He’s a terrific ideas. You guys are chock full of ideas. Twenty of them one way only. Really scratched a couple. Really outstanding. Sofia latto is principal consultant with with blackbaud and i shortens our title. But we were doing a be testing. I shortened it in the beginning. Why don’t you give me the full title of the section that you’re with a principal consultant within? I work with the user experience. A design group in blackbaud interactive. Thank you. Andi mike’s news, sr internet. Sorry. Senior internet marketing consultant erect. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Enjoyed it. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan. Twenty thirteen. Thanks so much for listening. And my thanks to everybody at b become for helping me get all these terrific. Interviews tons of live listener love, it’s, amazing haskell, oklahoma. Beaumont, california. Fort lauderdale, florida. New bern, north carolina. Charleston, south carolina we got another south carolina. Do you know each other? Goose creek, south carolina also worcester, mass atlanta georgia live listener loved to each of you let’s go abroad. Only one listener in china today. Ni hao to jeonju how? Where are all your friends? There’s? Usually multiple chinese listeners? Moscow we’ve got one listener in moscow. Wonderful. Welcome. I don’t think i’ve seen you before. Welcome moscow live listener love to you konnichi wa too. Matsuyama, iga tokyo and tokushima, japan. Konnichiwa live listener loved to everyone there’s, more there’s even more live listeners. I can’t do them all right this moment, of course. Podcast pleasantries. If you’re listening in the time shift, wherever the heck you are listening. I love you too. Podcast pleasantries to everyone listening at their leisure. Our sponsors. They helped me bring you this show this non-profit radio you’re listening to right this moment. Rally bound is one of them. They make simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns. Pick up the phone and talk to joe mcgee. It’s that simple. I personally i like talking to people rather than doing business over the web, if i have a choice and a lot of times you don’t have a choice, but with rally bound actually, you do. I mean, of course, you could go to their website rally bound dot com naturally, but you could talk to joe magee and get advice in a conversation about what rally ban does for you and how you can set up a campaign. Talk to him. Triple eight, seven, six, seven, nine o seven six or rally bound dot com of course they have fake use that rally bound naturally, but why deal with f excuse when you could talk to somebody? I wouldn’t? If you had that choice, would you rather talk to someone? Talk to joe? We’re also sponsored by t b r c cost recovery. They save you money on credit card fees when donors make a credit card gift, you don’t change companies t brc talks to your existing credit card processor to get them to lower the fee that you pay on each transaction. If they don’t lower your rate, you don’t pay them. This’s yourself, rabinowitz he is the genius behind. T brc i’ve known this guy very close to ten years in about another month, aiken say ten years, but i’m such a literalist i’m still saying very close to ten years. I’m pretty sure it’s next march that we first met i mean, in march, um, i’ve referred him many times over the ten years i’ve known him nearly ten years that i’ve known him. Talk to yourself for benefits, you know, i don’t know what to say. You could go to his website. Sure t brc dot com, but would you rather talk to someone and do business with them in a conversation two one two, six toe before nine triple xero yourself rabinowitz non-profit radio news welcome. If you are new to the show from last week, which was the big show, we have their face off between atlas of giving and giving us a i got lots of very good feedback from that, but if you are new to the show from last week, welcome, i’m very glad that you are with us. I am grateful, in fact, to each of our over nine thousand listeners, and i’m getting very personal here, i’m thanking you, i’m in your ear right now, radio even internet radio very personal medium and i’m getting personal. I’m thanking you. I appreciate you for listening for spending time with me. Thank you there’s. More non-profit radio news on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty eighth of february ninth show of this year scott koegler you know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find at n p tech news dot com and you’ll find him on twitter at scott koegler. Scott, welcome back. Hi, tony. Good to be here again. It’s. A pleasure. We’re talking about the cloud. You and i first talked about the cloud and software as a service or sas in a segment that i called sassi because that’s, my clever creative wit sassy on that was april fifteenth of two thousand eleven. So even, you know, back almost almost three years ago, you and i were talking about cloudgood puting and software was a service. What has happened in three years? Why are we talking about this again? Well, you know, interestingly, what happened is that people talk about it less. Um and i think that’s a good thing, because when we first talked about it, it was kind of the new oh, wow. This is cool. You know what we’re gonna do with that kind of a thing? Yeah, and anymore, it’s. Just the way things work. And it makes all kinds of sense. Um, just because, well, i’m sure that you have had your you go rounds with stalling software and maintaining updates and, you know, purchasing disks and installing them on computers and having this match is between this computer and all that kind of stuff, right? Yes. I have experienced that from time to time. Yes. And i think it’s common, i mean, it’s one of those things that has been the bane of computer administrators forever until crowds came along. Our sas. Same same thing. Well, it’s moving the program’s off into a vote computer and connecting to them buy-in in that connection so that it doesn’t matter what you have on your desktop or in your hand, right? Right. And, you know, the experience is pretty much the same way you’re looking at a screen. You get a keyboard and allison, you click and type and move. Things around and for most of us, it’s way really can’t tell the difference anymore between something that was installed locally and is running on a crowd service. Um, that’s a good thing. Okay, so we are over the security issues that you and i know talked about close to three years ago. Is that? Is that off the table now? Um, security issues in the cloud are off the table. A cz much of security issues in the office. So yeah, in a way, it’s less of an issue because there’s always a security issue. You know, you can’t get away from the half target about that. Well, yes. Oh, right. So, you know, it’s reality that has to be dealt with, but the clients turned out that called computing is no more or less secure than then locally hosted. Okay, are you aware of any, um, a large? Not well, any any non-profit security breaches that have that have resulted from from cloud computing? Is there anything that i’ve maybe missed through the years? Have you ever heard of anything? I have not heard of them. And hopefully that’s because they haven’t happened. You know the thing with target was just so big that number one legally they can’t avoid announcing it. Secondly, there were so many people affected by it that it was impossible to avoid the kind of publicity. Um, you know, we have way had a similar thing here in south carolina. I think it was a year ago. Now where the in the states i think it was the tax records got hacked, so i know if he called state of non-profit i guess that qualifies okay, okay, but i haven’t heard of any any particular non-profit entities, nor non-profit service is that tak tonight, i think you probably have the same level of legal obligation to announce those kind of things, maybe more so of them. Maldon public companies. Okay, certainly to their constituents anyway, so that that could be why we hadn’t heard. Also, i think about throwing at the listeners if you have been aware of or been a victim yourself or somehow have heard of ah, non-profit that that had a data breach. Let me know that may that may merit a show. Maybe there are lessons there that that can be learned. Or if if the institution would rather not do a show then of course, we don’t have to, but but i’d be interested if if you’ve heard of anything and just so that we know that everybody is thinking our eyes on the same plane. What scott’s referring to with respect to target the the retailer was millions of credit card users. Information was stolen right around christmas time just last year. Yeah, talk about bad timing. Yeah, well, yes, for for all of us who aren’t the hackers, it was brilliant for them. Maybe i shouldn’t call them. They’re all thieves, but but they’re they’re they’re the rare thief. I think most thieves not too brilliant. All right. But anyway, we’re going to be on the social social commentary tangent. Sorry, or i am. I don’t know where i’m going so open. So i’ll stop going there because it’s ridiculous. Okay, what should if we know that we are now pretty secure in the cloud. No worse off than the desktop on. And we have great compatibility problems that don’t exist anymore. What? What kinds of processing and data belong in the cloud for us? Well, you know, in general, i would say everything i’ve gotten personally, to the point where i have very few applications of locally, i used the google, um, you know, google bach’s suite. So all my emails up there, like my documents are there, um and, you know, part of the initial problem or concern with that was that what if my connection goes down? You know, it happens, right mean, cable get cut on all this kind of thing, bad weather that whether can interfere, yeah, definitely, yeah, like we’ve experienced, there may be a storm that puts out an entire region so right, you know, so the question there is is the baby that’s on your local computer that is also backed up to the cloud, which one is the one that you could get to? So the good point is that if you have that kind of facility with duplication of data, duplication of programs, but then one of the other is is probably going to be available to you. Now you may have to go somewhere other than where you currently are because, you know, your your officers or your living soul did maybe under water or electricity may be out, but your data, you know, should be either maybe on a laptop that you’ve got that you can use or is a safe and available by the cloud once you get somewhere else. All right, let’s see options that really could save, you know, you save anybody. Well, let’s, use your example of google docks on google calendar, i presume you use google calendar. Also, i do. Okay, obviously, in the cloud now for local, though, are your are your google documents stored locally? Also, yes, i have what’s called google drive, which is a connector. So when i say the document, it is saved to my local and also saved to google docks on my google drive, i didn’t know that, you know, for instance, i will be traveling next week, so my google ducks that are on my desktop computer will remain mayor, but all i need to do is connect my laptop to the internet, and i’ve access to, you know, all of my email, my calendar and my documents. Okay. Ah, let’s, explore this little bit google drive so google drive is accessible locally on your on your desktop even if you don’t have an internet connection it is. And how do you how do you get to the documents that are stored locally on your on your desktop? Um, well, first i’ll say that i’m using a windows based desktop computer. I assume it works similarly for mac, but i i don’t have that experience. So there’s a little program that i installed from google called google drive, and what it does is it sets up the location on my hard drive on my computer it’s really a folder on the drive, and anything that i put into that folder is automatically synchronized with my of my cloud based google docks. Cool dr so it’s an automatic function, so i when i want to open a file, i can either go to my file folder on my desktop, go to that document, double click it and it opens up whore! I couldn’t go to my google drive, which actually looks just like a local drive, but its timeline click on the document and it opens up so there’s two ways to get to it, then, thanks. I’m not really sure which one of you’s most frequently, but i switched that enforces because you know, they’re both there and and i do. Whatever’s. Convenient at the moment. Ok, so that local and remote capability should be should be very reassuring and that’s that i presume this is something we should look for. If we’re doing any kind of cloud computing it is. And i have to say that not all fast paced programs offer a local the local options. Some of them do. Certainly, if you have a constituent management system, um, that you know where you store all of your constituents data and pretty much everything else for you. Non-profit, um, part of the appeal there is that the information, the data, the programs and the activities are available for use anywhere by anyone who you allow to have access to it. It’s all password protected, that kind of thing. Um and so the fact that it is, um i guess, for lack of other description, that it doesn’t exist anywhere in particular, it means that everyone has access to it. In that case, having it also locally would not really be a good thing because it’s not personal data, right? Share data. Right? Right. All right, we have teo to go away for a couple minutes, but we’re going to comeback scott. Now they’re going to keep talking about moving to the cloud, including, we’ll get teo. Back-up we haven’t talked about back-up we’re talking about operating, and i’ve got more live listener, love, stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Did we just hear that? Ah, let’s, go abroad, live! Listen, love bangkok, thailand, i’ve been there. Welcome to the show. Bangkok, iran this is the second week in a row. Pretty sure iran was on last week. Welcome to you, live listener love to thailand and iran, iran. I’m sorry. We can’t see your city if we could, i would certainly shout out your city, but we know you’re with us. Um, did i shout boston, massachusetts in roswell, georgia live listener love to you if i didn’t, if i did so more love, but you can’t send enough what’s the big deal, uh, on your haserot too many listeners in seoul, south korea, and also an young south korea on your haserot. Scott koegler he’s in south carolina, and i wanted to talk. Scott, i want to ask you about privacy versus versus security. Do you do you worry that google can read everything that you put in your google docks and in your google calendar and possibly serve you up ads or use it for other purposes? I do, i worry about it now. I don’t worry about it, i take it for granted. Yeah, okay, well, it’s wise, to take it for granted, because we know they’re doing it. That’s what they’re i mean, that’s. Their business information is information and and targeting advertising, too, you know, to appropriate audience is doing, and i like it. But you know, the the truth is that most people see those ads and almost nobody clicks on them, you know, it’s it’s a sad thing, but it but it is the case there was a, uh, there was a study down on facebook ads, and i don’t sorry that i don’t recall the specifics about it, but the quick rake on them is just abysmal. So even though they’re there and kind of, um, you know, you see them, they become eyesores. Most people just disregard them completely. For instance, i’m looking at my gmail right now and in my primary list, okay? Just the inbox. There are no abs. It’s just it’s just you know what? Yeah, once i opened one of the e mails, now i begin to get ads across the right hand side. Yeah, they’re pretty innocuous. Okay? I don’t know. Yeah, the targeted ads bother me. Maybe i’m maybe i’m an aberration. Um, i feel like i’ve talked about this before when it’s come up. Other times i feel like i’ve been a little invaded when i get a ad. That’s that’s targeted that i know is because i went to the site but didn’t close a sale or something, you know? I went to a site and browse around or it’s because i read some kind of content and so, you know, you could sort of see the relationship. I know i feel like i still feel a little invaded when i when i get those i haven’t, you know, i have not overcome that yet. Well, it does give me pause because i know that i went looking for boots from my wife one time and everywhere, every page on every website that i went to where these women’s boots coming up. So you gotta wonder, okay, what does that say about me? And god forbid, i go anyplace that i really don’t want to know about anymore. Yeah, right. Well, what also says about you is that you’re a cross dresser. Well, exactly. Well, not exactly, but it’s it’s out now, but don’t nobody listens to the show, so i don’t want nobody knows nobody hears this show. Don’t worry about that. Let’s talk a little bit too. Moved to the subject of of back-up in the cloud. Very well advised, right? Yeah. Back-up is back-up there’s? Definitely something that you want to do. I mean in general, but in the crowded is even better. The issue with that is that if you are backing up local data, there are restrictions about the practical restrictions, not necessarily legal or technical, but just practical restrictions on how much you can actually back-up based on internet bandwidth. Good on we all look at the the download statistics for no the speeds. You know, when you get an internet connection to your cable company, they brag that you get twenty megabits of download. What they don’t talk about is the upload. And if you’re backing up it’s the upload that little matters that’s, the that’s, the speed at which data moves from your computer to their cloud server. Cool. Okay, so typically a twenty megabit god download speed, which is pretty fast. Ok, they fast? Actually, the comparable upload speed is more like one two, two megabits. So when you download a whatever a gigabyte file, you will get that in a minute or two. But when you try to upload a file even now, let’s face it. A digital image photograph is going to be a couple of megabytes. Um, it’s really going to take a long time for that? The upload now, what’s what’s constraining the upload speed is that your own service that’s slower than the server the clouds over giving it back to you? Or what’s what’s constraining us it’s the it’s, the connection that you’re paying for yeah, so you have a if you have a cable connection, right? Cable cable company connection uh, it’s it’s their service, that is slower. Yes. Okay, now it is possible to get hyre speed, but obviously it comes across so major corporations they’re goingto have called by synchronous in other words, it’s the same opposite is down what they’re saying, lots of money for that, you know? All right, so we need a small non-profit probably doesn’t write s so when we’re talking about backing up in the cloud, we need to be aware of our upload speed. And then and then you know how you get it back is important because that’s your retrieving your data? Yeah, exactly. And where you get it back, you know, may not. How you get it back may depend on where you are and what you need to do with it. So if you’re, uh, if you’re local, computer environment is underwater for instance. And you moved to a new location. You need to download essentially your entire data. Your entire set of data. Yeah. So if it’s a lot when they want to order a order it on the hard drive and have it settled tonight rather than try to download it. Okay, a lot of services offer that kind of capability. Scott, we have just a minute left, and, uh, i want everyone to know. This is scott’s swan song he’s he’s going to be leaving after about three and a half years. We’ve had a good long run together. Scott, we have it’s been a lot of fun planning. It’s been my pleasure, you’ve been you’re the longest running contributor, it’s all because, you know, i want to change up topics and more about that another time. I don’t wanna talk about new person coming on to talk about scott and the three and a half years that he has spent. As you know, basically a monthly contributor. Definitely. Regular contributor buy-in technology. Scott, just as it’s really been a pleasure working with you. Thanks, tony. And same to you, it’s been a good run and, uh, you know, i uh, how would we go? Sounds very good. I know we’ll be in touch on twitter. Yes, we will. All right, thank you very much. Scottie scott koegler tulani take care, my pleasure editor of non-profit technology news n p tech news dot com and at scott koegler on twitter next week, another interview from bb con earning that society level gift and jean takagi are legal contributor returns he’s a very smart guy always learned something from gene rally bound and trc they support non-profit radio. I’m asking you to talk to them joe magee and yussef rabinowitz ifyou’re in the market for either peer-to-peer fund-raising or if you accept credit cards, talk to gdpr rally bound or tb rc rally bound is at triple eight seven six seven nine o seven six or rally bound dot com and t brc dot com or to one two, six double four nine triple xero our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, we have to say farewell to debra. This is the last show that she’s going to be social media manager of we’re going to be making a change starting march first. Deborah, thank you very much. Farewell and good luck. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, this music you hear it’s by scott stein. I met him last night at a gig. He was at symphony space, thie barth, aaliyah and symphony space. What a nice guy took pictures and everything. Check out the facebook page, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great network duitz get in. Thank you, cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to talking on their network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Come on.

Nonprofit Radio News

TMNR official logo squareA lot’s happening for Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. It’s all good, I love it and I want to share it!

Live Listener Love & Podcast Pleasantries!
I’m so grateful to our 9,000+ listeners, whether live or archive. I produce the show for you. You are the reason Nonprofit Radio is thriving. Thank you!

Last Week’s Show
Last week was the Faceoff. An exhilarating show–I’m not exaggerating!–where Atlas of Giving and Giving USA dealt face-to-face with their issues about each other’s work. This is what Forbes.com dubbed the “philanthropy food fight” and I played cafeteria cop.

 
There were a few transgressions, but nothing unmanageable. (I did have to turn off someone’s mic.) A few jibes, but no Jargon Jail. 

 
To Our Contributors:
You’re amazing! I’m so grateful to each of you: Scott Koegler, Gene Takagi, Maria Semple and Amy Sample Ward.

Each month, you take time to prepare and share valuable info for the benefit of small and mid-size nonprofits. Such devotion! You each exemplify what’s great about working in the nonprofit community: sharing; loyalty; expertise; professionalism; and good fun.

You each are a pleasure to work with!

Farewell, Scott!
This Friday is Scott’s swan song. Editor of Nonprofit Technology News, he’s our longest running contributor, at close to three-and-a-half years! I decided to change topics (see below), and I don’t want to have more than four regulars. They are half the show and I want to keep half open for other brilliant guests.

We’ve had a good long run together. Many thanks, Scott!

Welcome, Cindy!
In April, Cindy Gibson will join as our newest contributor–on grants fundraising. She’s principal of Cynthesis Consulting and has over 25 years helping funders (like the Carnegie Corporation) and grantees (including People for the American Way).

And Now, A Word For Our Sponsors:
Thank you! RallyBound, peer-to-peer fundraising, and TBRC, reducing credit card processing fees. I’m very thankful for your support of Nonprofit Radio.

I love producing Nonprofit Radio and I’m grateful to everyone who has a part in this incredibly valuable resource we create each week for nonprofits.

Thank you!

Nonprofit Radio for February 21, 2014: Faceoff: Atlas of Giving & Giving USA

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I Love Our Sponsors!

Sponsored by RallyBound peer-to-peer fundraising for runs, walks and rides. Also sponsored by TBRC Cost Recovery, saving you money on credit card processing fees.

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Rob Mitchell, Gregg Carlson & Una Osili: Faceoff: Atlas of Giving & Giving USA

Rob Mitchell
Rob Mitchell
Gregg Carlson
Gregg Carlson
Una Osili
Una Osili

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You need to not miss this! And I want you to join the conversation!

Since Atlas of Giving announced its review of 2013 fundraising in January, there’s been tension between them and Giving USA in other philanthropy media. For the first time, they’ll be face-to-face, rather than talking AT each other.

These organizations have 2 things in common:
1. Each prepares a broad analysis of fundraising results.
2. Each has problems with the way the other measures and forecasts.

My guests will be Rob Mitchell, CEO of the Atlas; Gregg Carlson, chair of the Giving USA Foundation; and Una Osili, Director of Research at Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

We’ll talk through their issues around accuracy, methodology and relevance. We’re taking your questions, too! Submit them as comments below or on Twitter using the hashtag #NonprofitRadio.

Forbes.com dubbed it the “philanthropy food fight.” On February 21, I’ll be the cafeteria cop. 

 

 


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If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Hello and welcome to twenty martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and this is show number one hundred eighty started this show in july of two thousand ten. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of disc wamidh of gingivitis if it came within my ken that you have missed today’s show a very big show philantech be face off atlas of giving and giving yusa since atlas of giving announced its review of twenty thirteen fund-raising in january, there’s been tension between them and giving yusa in other philanthropy media today for the first time, they’ll be together rather than talking at each other. These organizations have two things in common. Each prepares a broad analysis of fund-raising results, each has problems with the way the other measures and forecasts we’ll talk through their issues around accuracy, methodology and relevance. It’s a face off, so i’ll be the referee, which is ironic that i’m using a sports metaphor because i got my varsity lettering announcing, but i’ll fill the role it got the attention of forbes dot com they dubbed it the philanthropy food fight. If that’s what it is, i’ll be cafeteria cop, we have guest live tweeters. Alex daniels, a reporter for the chronicle of philanthropy, he’s at alex daniels seop the chronicle is retweeting his tweets and lynette singleton lynette is a big, loyal fan of non-profit radio and principle of singleton consulting group she’s at s c g the number four non-profits we’re taking your questions on twitter use hashtag non-profit radio we’re monitoring that hashtag here in studio on tony’s take to today i have a professional development survey on my block and i’d be grateful for your help. We’re sponsored by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising and by t b r c saving you money on credit card processing fees. It’s a pleasure to welcome my guests. Rob mitchell is ceo of atlas of giving on twitter he’s at philanthropy man also looks to me like at fill inthe roman could think of it either way, he’s in the studio on dh. He also has another twitter id at atlas of giving. Greg carlson is chair of the giving yusa foundation he’s at giving yusa on twitter and is with us from henderson, nevada. If you’re gonna be in nevada. I’m not sure why you would choose henderson, but welcome greg carlson dahna osili is director of research at indiana university, the lily family school of philanthropy. She’s, the researcher forgiving yusa on twitter, she is at i u philanthropy and she’s with us from indianapolis. We have the west, we have the heartland and the east coast. We have a special structure to start today to keep things balanced, we’re going to start with a back and forth we’re going to start with greg is going to take sixty seconds to describe giving yusa and then sixty seconds for rob to describe the atlas of giving rob is then going to ask e-giving yusa a question and either or both greg and unit can answer, we’re going to record how long greg a noona take latto answer, greg is then going to ask rob atlas of giving a question, and rob will have the same amount of time that giving us a took. We’re going to put a five minute maximum on the question answers, though five minute maximum for each side, but of course rob gets how much time greg and unity we’ll be monitoring don’t worry if you’re confused, we have it under control here and they were going to repeat this a second time, so by the second time we do it, you’ll be familiar with exactly what we’re doing, and the second time will start again with rob asking a question of e-giving yusa and then after that round, we’re going to take our first break and then we return, we’ll be a little more back to normal and i’ll have some questions and, ah, maybe there will be questions from twitter. If you have questions for for our guests today, please use the hashtag non-profit radio. So let me first welcome everybody. Rob greg dahna welcome thanks, tony. Pleasure to have all three of you. We’re going to start with greg. We do have a timer. Greg here in studio we’re timing. We’re going to give you sixty seconds to describe e-giving yusa. So? So please do that. Well, thank you. Toning given at the mission of the giving us a foundation is to advance the research, education and the public understanding of philanthropy. We welcome today’s conversation. Almost no of the foundation’s work through giving us say annual report on philanthropy, which we have produced for over fifty five years. We always are pleased to share what we do and how we do it all with the goal of helping the fund-raising practitioner and threw the question. So what does this mean to me and to my organization? Fiona and i are pleased to be with you today. All right, thank you very much. That was way under a minute. Thank you very much, greg. Glad to have you and owner with us, rob mitchell. You you get a minute, teo. Describe the atlas of giving. Well, first of all, tony, thanks for hosting this discussion. The atlas of giving my original goal was to create a tool that i never had access to. And thirty years as a practitioner. I was looking for a timely benchmark of giving for comparative purposes and a reliable, regularly updated forecast so that i could raise more money by timing events and promotions and creating budgets based on real data. I wanted it to be useful for working fundraisers, non-profit leaders, board members and the press and the public. The atlas of giving is about looking forward. We monitor the velocity and trajectory of charitable giving. We’ve got our finger on the pulse of american philanthropy. The atlas is ah high fidelity monthly benchmark of us giving by sector source and state the only highly reliable forecast of charitable giving for each of the next twelve months. With the atlas. We know what is happening in giving each month and khun schedule fund-raising events and promotions at times when they’ll get the best results, we can also create and revise budgets based on a reliable forecast. Robin, thank you very much, there’s the timer you just heard. All right, um, we’re gonna have. Rob now is going to ask a question of giving us a greg noona, either or both of you can can answer, but there’s a there’s, a five minute maximum combined for both of you, okay, is that is that clear? Yeah, good. Okay, cool, alright, rob, please. Thanks, craig, in enough for participating, by the way. So my first question is, what would you tell working fundraisers and non-profit leaders about how to use giving yusa information to raise more money this year and plan their upcoming fiscal year budgets. Greg dahna well, i’ll go ahead and take that, i think the first crack at that way may tag team that’s tony sure, okay, yes, it is so, robin, in terms of how the advancement professionals and development professionals in our field use our information with giving us say, we’re identifying true patterns and trends, and, uh, and i stay true because there’s some patterns and trends that that might not be as appropriate in terms of measurement and you’re making plans as as other ideas on deacon talk about what some examples might be of that. But the practitioners in the world in our field really used giving us say, too, see where the money’s coming from and where the money’s going tio and so specifically, then teo identify the overall e-giving patterns that would then enable them to know where to think about investing. Additional resource is as we move forward, you know, what would you add to that? I would just add that giving us a provides an overall context for non-profits to understand trends within their own sectors. Hyre oh, god, i don’t know. Oh, okay, um, e-giving usa allows non-profits to understand trends within their own sectors, but also provides them with an in depth view of what’s happening throughout the sector. We really strongly believe that giving us is an important tool for fundraisers, but it should be used alongside other resource is depending on the non-profits need we should also emphasize that in this sector non-profits experience, a lot of volatility in their fund-raising activities there’s a lot of months, months fluctuation as faras making decisions for a researcher. What this means is that there’s a trade off between thie information that’s widely available on the information that’s accurate and so one big hallmark for us been that trade off between speed and accuracy. Okay, the non-profits sector needs data quickly, but the non-profit sector also needs reliable data in order to make planning decisions, budgeting decisions and so forth. And so one of the i think hallmarks of giving us has been to make sure that information provided is reliable while providing an overall context of what’s happening in the sector. Okay, we’re going to stop there. That was two minutes and two minutes and thirty five seconds and greg would you would you kindly ask robert question, and then we’ll give him the same amount of time. Tio tio, answer. Sure, thank you. I think we would all agree that the volunteer board and development professionals we serve need and deserve accurate information. Rob, for your company’s product. What outside data and process do you use to validate the estimate you initially released? It’s probably best greg, to talk first about how we created it because what we did was we assembled a team of twenty five, phd level statisticians and analyst, and we actually took forty two years of e-giving yusa data and i thank you for the work that you’ve done over the past five decades. We could not have created the atlas of giving without giving yusa what we were looking for, wass we use correlation science, and so what we’re looking for, based on the data that we had from what was available, what factor’s, what economic and demographic factors correlated two, two e-giving both well for the national number for sectors each of nine sectors and each of four sources, and so we’ve been able to determine what exactly those factors are those economic factors for each sector, for each source and for each state now, and what we’re able to do then is we were able to build on algorithm we have sixty five different algorithms, one for each sector resource in the state and the national number. And the the interesting thing is that the factors involved for, say, individual giving are very different and their strengths are very different from those involved in corporate giving, as you might imagine. And so are you. No way. Our technology has proven that she isn’t used by hedge funds, that cheese by the federal reserve bank and others. It’s. Correlation. Science is a proven wait. To do this kind of analysis, greg, you have about another half a minute. If you want teo, use it only go ahead if you like. I’m sorry. No, i’m sorry i said the wrong name. Sorry, rob. You have about another thirty five seconds if you would like to use it. Sure, the last thing i’d like to say is there has been there’s there’s been a lot of stuff in the press about transparency and so forth, and i’ll just re emphasize what i said a few weeks ago, which is we would actively look for a major research university to enter into an agreement with us to evaluate everything that we do and everything that we’ve done and look for new research opportunities, using our data and our technology. Okay, thank you very much, rob. You can ask another question of greg and guna and will record how long they take. Teo teo, answer that question. Go ahead, rub please, rob. Sure, so i’m i’m curious about this. In the past twelve years, the number of non-profits in the u s has grown sixty percent over that same period of time. New technology is dramatically improving fund-raising results for many of them, not most. Non-profits donorsearch vise funds now account for more than four percent of charitable giving each year, and they’re they’re growing at a phenomenal rate online, giving a skyrocketing and popularity. And yet, in spite of all this, all this trend upward, i’m the giving yusa answer for charitable giving in the united states seems to be stuck at two percent of real gdp each year. And so my question is, does that bother you? Greg dahna greg well, they what i would say that that rob is that altum as we do our analysis, we’re taking into account okay, hundreds of variable, we’ve tested over seven hundred variables of issues that correlate with giving in order to develop our report. And so as we work through our report, we are doing a number of things which would include the use of the advisory council on methodology, which is an outside group that we’ve organized which their main job is to challenge both are processing our sources, asking, how can we do better that’s how we begin each and every year is we lay out processes of developing our report and then secondly, it’s critical that we have outstanding researcher and we have the best in the business for the indiana university lily school philantech on dh, their credibility is second to none when it comes to these kinds of questions. And so as we develop our annual report, this is the process that we go through in terms of determining how we’re going to them share with our sector results of our findings, you know? What would you ask? Yes, i think the question rob poses a very intriguing one, he says, how can we change that percentage from two percent? And we agree that it is indeed certainly an important issue, but it will take a lot to move that needle. This takes us back to the question at hand, which is how does giving us actually obtain its numbers? I just want to emphasize that giving us a estimates rely on in-kind a metric methods that have developed not just that the lily family school, but that we indeed share those results. Has greg mentioned with the advisory council in methodology, which includes leading researchers from institutions throughout the country during its history? Giving us has tested over seven hundred variables that potentially correlate with charitable giving by households by corporations and foundations, and i should mention that in every single period before we release giving us, we verify and validate this data, and we also consider, if anything, in the environment needs needs to be taken into account. So over time, we’ve added to that seven hundred very bold list by looking at additional factors that may have the potential to affect shared e-giving, including economic and demographic variables. So i just want to emphasize the two percent numbers, one that we have looked at very closely. Our advisory council methodology is well aware of, and our users are well aware of, but to change, that percentage will require not just the work of the non-profit fundraisers, but also our whole society being involved as well. All right, that was that was three minutes. So we’re going to now have greg is goingto ask robert question, and rob will have three minutes. Teo respond, greg, go ahead. Actually, you know, i think you’re next, okay, only you have a question, okay, very good. Well, i will use this minute, just to mention a few points that address tony’s question, he said. There’s been a growth in online giving, which is true it’s, now about five percent of all giving and certainly don’t advice. Funds are rising part of the fund-raising landscape philanthropically landscape as well. But we should keep in mind. Dahna mouna yeah, i want okay on the call, okay? The last thing we heard you say was keep in mind you’re you’re posing a question now to rob, right? Oh, yes, i’m posing a question, rob, but i also wanted to just very quickly mentioned that a few of the points that robberies such as the writer and online giving and also the use of dahna advice oh, no, no, no, i got to stop you. You’re transgressing a little bit it’s not eyes, not jargon jail it’s typically have george in jail, but it’s not that question for rob is the scientific process really depends on verification and validation off estimates in particular for the monthly and state and sectoral estimates that you present what dina sources used ultimately verify and validate those data sources because at least it’s not exactly clear, given that the methodology is not necessarily shared widely, how that verification and validation process is taking place. Well, first of all, we do not use we don’t use old irs data were not using any surveys. The atlas of giving, as i said, is based on correlation science, and so we’ve identified the factors that in their strengths, as they relate to each sector and each source, and those factors include regularly vetted and regularly reported economic and demographic data things like the case shiller price home price index we use gdpr of course we use actually there’s, there is one source that actually correlates to auto parts sales, which we’re not saying that that’s a cause, but it actually auto parts sales is important in that particular algorithm, which is not unlike the fed they’ve actually decided that auto parts sales are important, teo to the unimportant correlation to the banking business. So the the factors that we’re using our are regularly reported by the government and sound economic and demographic groups that give this information and our algorithms. If you’re looking for me to say that our algorithms have been vetted by the university of indiana, i’m not going to give i’m not going to say that, because of course, it’s not true, but again, i would emphasize we we’d welcome the opportunity for a major research university too. Teo, look at what we’re doing and and evaluate and comment on it, rob, you have about another minute and twenty seconds you can continue whether answering that question or anything else, but you get three minutes, okay? I would just say that, you know again in terms of utility what we’re most interested in, as i said in my opening statement, is velocity and trajectory of e-giving and as a as a someone who practiced fund-raising for thirty years, i was really interested in not just what happened a year and a half ago or two years ago. I was interested in what’s happening this month last month and what’s going to happen in the next twelve months and that’s what we’re really all about, okay? Wow, i am not i am not accustomed to this formal structure. This is not typical of non-profit radio so people joining us for the first time we don’t we don’t usually have time limits and things like this, you will see that after the break, we’re going to take our first break and when we come back, i’ve got some questions. I have a question from from my blogged, and we’ll see if we get a need live questions. If you want to join the conversation, join us on twitter and use hashtag non-profit radio to ask your question. Stay with us. They didn’t think dick tooting good ending things. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever duitz welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’ve got a ton of live listener love. Hamburg, pennsylvania! Fort lauderdale, florida. Dallas, texas. Atlanta, georgia, new bern, north carolina. Locust grove, virginia. Corvallis, oregon, indianapolis, indiana live listener love to all of you, there’s mawr in the us! But we’re going to go abroad. We’ve got guangzhou, china, and kunming, china ni hao in japan, we’ve got tokyo and yokohama, konichiwa, and we’ve also got korea, south korea always loyally checking in on son and gun, po han, yeo haserot and also seoul, korea. Um, greg noona, way got your message that you’re experiencing a bit of a delay. We want to make sure you’re not listening on your computer. You should just be listening to the to the conference number that you dialed into if you’re listening on your computer than that would definitely cause a delay. So if if you’re doing that, the best thing to do would be to meet your computer and just listen on the phone, and hopefully that will correct the problem time let’s say, okay, i want to make sure that listeners understand the method, the methodology and whether the methodology is pretty much the same between the two, but you’re using different variables or or whether it’s it’s actually different now, i think the i’m going to speak for a lot of people, i think on greg nuna, this first one is for you, i think a lot of people believe that the e-giving usa uses surveys and you did for many years you surveys, but then you changed, and i think it was in two thousand ten. First of all, dude, you don’t have that history correct, you’re no longer using surveys. Let let me correct this because it’s a really important issue within us. Based on an econometric model, it includes econometric analysis and tabulations e-giving usc does not depend on a survey, it does not use a survey. In fact, what it uses are data sources, including irs data data from the bureau of economic analysis, the philanthropic, the sliding panel study, which does provide an estimate of non itemizers e-giving we use data from very various sources within the non-profit sector, including the urban institute national center for charitable statistic, which provides the data on the uses the subsectors including education, health, the arts of environments i think there’s a lot of the need to clarify that giving us is based on econometric model providing estimates so in it is basically an estimate of e-giving that relies on the most reliable and most up to date data available. Um, i should also mention another distinguishing characteristic of giving us is that it’s, extremely transparent, it’s been peer reviewed. The econometric model on which giving us is based on has actually been published and in a peer reviewed journal and v s q because of its transparency and its commitment to transparency e-giving u s citizens fact replicable and verifiable anybody, whether researcher non-profit practitioner, our fundraiser can reference the data and actually see how those estimates were derived. In addition, giving us the update those estimates as more three cent and updated data becomes available from government sources and other industry aggregates and releases those revised estimates over time, giving us a program to be extremely reliable. To give you a sense of the reliability of giving us from the initial to the final estimates between two thousand for two thousand eleven, those estimates were between one point four percent difference the difference between the original and the final estimate was one point for-profit scent. And the median difference was one point. One. Okay. You know, i’m gonna haul night. Yeah. Okay. I’m gonna i’m gonna ask you stopped there. But i do want to ask about the history, though. What in the past was it? Wasn’t it a survey based model? I understand, it’s. Not now. I understand. But in the in the past. And what was it? A survey based model for years. Yes. In the past, when giving us first began, it did do a survey of different subsectors. Now, why did we switch? When the data from those charities the nine, ninety easies and the nine, ninety forms became available, we were able to actually provide an f estimate off those subsectors, using the most recent and up to date irs data available through a partnership with the national center and shared both statistics. So that’s actually, when that which took place on were able to develop a comprehensive econometric models for each of the subsector. Okay, and was that switching in two thousand ten? No, that was done in two thousand five for the subsectors. Prior to that, we since we have been doing the work, which is at the beginning of this decades in two thousand is when we started an econometric model for all the sources and for the uses that only became possible when the cs at the national center for charitable statistics start began a partnership with at the lily family school back then, it was the centre and philanthropy. All right, so rob, we have we have methodology based on econometric modeling and peer reviewed. How is the atlas of giving different? Well, i can’t say that we’re a peer reviewed we’d like to be peer reviewed, but we’re we’re also a were also a business. And so in the same way that coca cola isn’t going to release out of their safe their formula for making coq, we’re not going to release that either, but what we will do is we’d be happy to partner with a major research university in a controlled environment toe look and we would be willing to show anything we show every all sixty five algorithms, we’d be happy to show them anything they’d like to see. We’ve been able to reconstruct my monthly giving data by sector. Source and state back to nineteen, sixty eight we’d be happy to show them that database, so we’re not allergic to transparency were just need transparency to protect our proprietary intellectual property, you know, with the indiana university be interested in partnering with with the atlas of giving? Absolutely we be delighted, and i think that the hallmark of any data estimate that’s used in the nonprofit sector has to be that transparency and also verification and validation. So we would welcome the opportunity to share our process without less and work jointly with to verify invalidate their data on what that validation and tails is actually comparing the actual prediction with what happened in the sector. And so i think that’s an important process for increasing confidence and strength of the estimate for atlas e-giving we welcome that opportunity, and we’d be able to share it with the field more broadly, not just to check the data for internal purposes, but we would welcome that opportunity so that we can, in fact, share the broader results with the rest of the non-profit okay, well, i’m not committing rob mitchell, teo extending an offer to the indiana university i was just wondering if if the university would be interested, but no it’s, certainly not speaking on behalf of the atlas e-giving, rob, let me ask you about the atlas and and owners point verification verification of your data well, in the same way that they validate their data with their own internal sources in their own, their own systems, as she said, they revise their their estimate a couple of times after the original estimate comes out. Generally we measure we our estimate is one thing, and our forecast is something else and are forecast has been very reliable on a month to month basis. It’s over ninety eight percent reliable. Now, this is based on on the numbers that we calculate, not on the numbers that giving yusa calculates, right? So if if you’re looking for something to compare our forecast to giving us a cz estimate, it isn’t gonna happen because we’ve found that the correlations that we’ve identified for each sector source and state for giving in the us, our numbers have diverged pretty significantly. I mean, you can go and look at the atlas numbers over the last few years and look at giving us a and you can see a very different story being painted well. So how in the heck do we know who’s? Who’s, right? Let’s, let’s bring greg carlson back in if you’re both so divergent, how do we know that? How do we know who’s, right? Well, this is a key question that you’re asking me. Yeah, i know, i know i was very pleased personally, when a couple of years ago, your company took on the very difficult task of getting into the forecasting in prediction business because honestly, our our industry and sector were greatly benefit from an accurate forecast, but a zai look at your own analysis using not our numbers but your numbers over the last two years of your forecast, you’ve been off by a total of about fifty billion dollars, and so, you know, i’m just confused as to why you’re saying that your accuracy on your forecast is at whatever high percentage you claim it to be? Well, we’ve actually done the reliability calculations and month, month to month since two thousand eleven month to month were more than ninety eight percent reliable on a three three month basis where ninety seven percent reliable on a six month basis, ninety five point, three percent reliable on a twelve month basis, ninety three point, three percent reliable. And the thing you have to remember, greg, is our forecast, like any forecast conditions change and the example that i would give you is two thousand one, two thousand one was shaping up to be ah, pretty good giving year, and then september eleventh occurred and giving dropped off significantly for the last quarter of the year and into the first quarter of the next year. So we update our forecast every month, and we report that, and by the way, we give our we give our information away for free, okay? It’s uh, but what i would say to that, rob is that the average practitioner is eating information to make investment and budget decisions, and the boards that they are working with as to where they’re going to put their time and resource is typically with all the institutions i’ve ever worked with, their typically doing their budget and planning process six months before either the beginning of a calendar, your fiscal year. And so when, when someone gets into the prediction forecasting business and so for instance, in two thousand thirteen, this past year, where you forecasted that giving would be nearly flat at one point, six percent, then using your own number, it actually increased by nearly thirteen percent. How is a practitioner actually, then to use that information with the fact that they’re having to do their budget that much ahead of time, that they would have mess this philanthropic giving opportunity? Had they decided to conserve their budget with that initial estimate of just one point six? Well, as a as a practitioner for thirty years, i can give you the answer to that question in terms of budgeting, yeah, the forecast changes, i mean, things change nine eleven happens, the asian tsunami happens, events happen, and we’re keeping our finger on the pulse of american philanthropy. So as things change, the forecast changed, and that was true last year. Yes, our forecast at the beginning of two thousand thirteen was very, very modest, almost flat, as you said, and then it turned out to be a fantastic giving your if i was just trying to validate the atlas of giving, we try to make our numbers come out exactly to the forecast and we didn’t do that, and if you want to call that transparency, i think that’s pretty transparent because we finished, you know, we reported that giving was up more than thirteen percent last year on that was after our first and i want to say the first of twelve forecast for monthly forecast updated for two thousand thirteen. So as a practitioner, i would say, set your budget based on the best data you have and then monitor and update the budget as conditions change, we have to take a take a little time that zits tony time now so everybody can take a breather because i want to recognize our sponsors that helped me to produce incredible shows like today’s rally bound supports the show for our live tweeters, please, would you please give a shout out to at rally bound falik bound to makes simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns, it’s friends asking friends to give to your cause as a non-profit radio listener, you will get a discount. People have been doing that. I’m very glad people are claiming the discount and calling talking teo rally bound it does not have to be an event. It could be any fund-raising campaign as an example, grades of green in los angeles used rally bound to raise twenty two thousand dollars. 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Talks to your existing credit card processor to get them to lower the feed that they charge you on each and every transaction. If they don’t lower your rate, you don’t pay them. It’s yourself, rabinowitz he is the genius behind the company. I’ve known yourself for nearly ten years, he’s no pressure. I wouldn’t work with somebody like that. You could talk to him. Two, one, two, six, double four nine triple xero or tb rc dot com i have a professional development survey on my blogged i’m interested in what it is that you do to keep current and fresh in your work naturally non-profit radio is at the core of your professional development, but what else? What’s what’s on the periphery around that non-profit radio core webinars, conferences, blog’s books, whatever it is i’m interested in, it doesn’t matter whether you’re in a non-profit or you do consulting, i’m interested in how you keep up with what’s new that survey is on my block at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty first of february eighth show of the year and as i mentioned one hundred eightieth show let’s, unpack a few. Things that came up in conversation there the question of the forecast. Greg dahna does. Does e-giving yusa provide a forecast for what will happen in the coming year? Let me take that question so let’s, just be clear the estimates that giving us he provides our projects shin, because the most recent irs data that we have is actually only available with a two year lag. So we are ultimately in the process of actually providing a forecast even about the current year that we’re in because the most up to date government data is not available until two years after the fact. So i do want to raise the point about a forecast it’s an important one. I agree with greg there’s, a need for more data, more reliable data within the sector. But we are concerned about atlas, at least the discussion around a monthly estimate, our monthly forecast because there isn’t an ultimate check off that estimate within the field because iris does not actually publish monthly data, so there would be no way to confer firm or not confirmed how accurate that forecast was against what actually happened. So the example i would give to sort of explain what a forecast is, the weather forecast is one that we all know well, but we can always check how reliable the weatherman wass because we know what happened in terms of was it snowy? Was it rainy on the challenge with the least the description of atlas of giving? We don’t ultimately know how this is done, because it’s not transparently provided is that there isn’t an ultimate benchmark for that monthly forecast or even the regional forecast that have been described. Okay, rob well, what about the forecast? Sure, we provide a monthly benchmark, but she’s questioning the how it’s validated the the best validation is those who use it, and i would say this, you know, one of the things we’ve learned since creating the atlas is dahna how money is raised and who money is raised from makes a huge difference in an organization’s success or lack of success and in the current economy, it’s it’s been a striking couple of years in that respect, because what we’ve seen is that organizations that rely on organizations and churches that rely on lots of small gifts from lots of small givers our are still struggling, and the reason that they’re struggling is because of the effects and after effects of high unemployment. Conversely, all you have to do is google record giving and you’ll see colleges and universities in particular and donor advised funds have had fantastic years for each of the last three years, and the reason why is it’s directly tied to the rebound in the stock market? And some rebound in in real estate prices, among other things, so different, and those organizations raise money very differently. Colleges and universities, college graduates have less than a three percent unemployment rate, so unemployment is not important for the kinds of people who typically give to colleges and universities. But for a church or a large national charity, like the one i used to represent. Thie american cancer society, lots of small gifts from lots of events and small donors. It’s a tough time, and so your question was about validation. Hyre you know, as a practitioner, i would say if if somebody presented me with the atlas forecast, i would be completely skeptical, but i would test it. And so if you said to me, it’s going to be better for me to have my event this year in august rather than october, i might not do that right away. But if it was a direct mail drop, i i think i would i would move not the whole file, but i’d use a small percentage of the file to test and see the results in a controlled study. And then as the as i determined that the forecast was reliable, i could move more and more of my fund-raising promotion activity to the months and times during the year when it is forecast to be the best and make more money for my organization. We have a question from alex daniels. This is directed at e-giving yusa. Alex is a reporter for a chronicle of philanthropy. He’s live tweeting for us. Uh, he’s questioning does giving us a provide a forecast? You know, i’m not. I’m not clear because you say you’re using data that lags two years, but you’re calling it a forecast for the future. So can you? Well, i let me clarify e-giving usa provides a current, so basically giving us this year will provide a nest estimate of what happened in twenty thirteen that is because the most recent data available to us is available with a two year lag. I want teo just emphasize so in a temple where providing is already a forecast based on what data is actually available and what is possible to verify and validate when it comes to monthly data, a monthly forecasting there is no reliable chair oppcoll giving data that exists at the monthly level on giving amounts and most of the economic variables that would be used to create a monthly estimate, i want to be clear, i’m talking about the monthly estimate rather than a national estimate. There really isn’t government data is also available at a lag on a monthly basis, so it would be almost a challenging to actually validate a monthly forecast for reasons one into a stated above and i think the same would be said about the state by state aggregate e-giving forecasts and estimates because in fact, no reliable data is available on giving at a state level that’s available in a timely and consistent basis. Itemized individual giving by state and geography legs two years or more. And so geographic data on corporate and be crossed data is also available at significant lags. I’m not available at the state level in any reliable way, so i think when we’re talking about a forecast, i understand the need for timely information. I think the non-profit sector would benefit from very reliable information, but that has the trade off between accuracy and speed and especially with the monthly forecasts have weaved as we’ve described it’s, very challenging to see how you would actually check the accuracy of that monthly forecast on dh. How is atlas actually held accountable to the sector on providing a monthly smb? Because, as we said, there’s, no outside data source that could be used, i think, no, no, no, no, i have to go, i’m sorry we have to take a break. I’m sure rob disagrees with a fair amount of what you’re saying and we’re gonna give him a chance. But we have to go out for this break, so please stay with us. We’ll get that we’ll get robbed to respond, and then i have questions about the timing. When these things come out january versus june and plus, we have some listener questions. Gosh, hang in there. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Welcome back. We got tons more live listener love new york, new york, moline, illinois. Austin, texas english town, nevada, pittsburgh p a. I went to college there. Carnegie mellon and wolf amass live listener left to each of you end, of course. Podcast pleasantries for the nine thousand of you night more than nine thousand of you who listen in the time shift whether you’re on your treadmill in your car, who knows where you are podcast pleasantries to you and i forgot to send them last week, so i’m sending another one this week. Podcast pleasantries. Everybody listening on their own schedule. Michael baker at my at m baker cfr, thank you very much for the shout out. We’re doing the best we can. I appreciate it. Thank you, michael. Okay, we got to give robert chance, teo, and they’re gonna get off the forecast subject. Rob, you want to respond to what is suggested about forecasts monthly for cause? She was talking at the monthly monthly forecasts. Not being verifiable. Well, i’ll tell you one way that you could make it immediately. Verifiable. We offer a product on our website for less than two hundred dollars, any? Non-profit or charity church can go on our website, answer six easy questions and backed up by a database of more than nine hundred ninety thousand cells individual cells of information, they can get a fiscal year forecast of what giving will be for their organization, and they can go back and update that forecast each month for twelve months. So if the forecast works, they’ll know and i will say also that one of the services that we also provide in charge for our regular monthly report is free, and that includes e-giving monthly giving by sector source in state and an updated forecast for each of the next twelve months. So that’s free. But we also use our technology to build a specific model for specific organizations, and when we do that, the accuracy of what those organizations actually achieve in their fund-raising and what we forecast that it would be is incredibly reliable. Okay, i have to give a shout. Teo tony macklin, m a, c, k l i n he wanted me to ask a question about what’s not covered by the atlas for giving us a or any other review. Tony, i’m at a time. But his concern i’m going, i’m going to give voice to his concern, but we’re not going to respond to it, so so you take a breath because you’re not going to respond to this. It isn’t time, but tony macklin, first of all, you can check it on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com he also blogged on his own block, and i’m sorry, i don’t have the name of that, but again, i just gave you his name. His concern is that for the charitable organizations that aren’t captured by data that’s reported to the irs, andi, i’m going to ask about churches shortly, but but he’s concerned about e-giving by people who don’t itemize on their taxes, for instance, or even down to the cash that we drop in jars at counters and buckets and on street corners. He’s also concerned about giving two organizations that aren’t five oh one see threes like advocacy organizations, civic organizations? What about crowdfunding platforms? Rally bound, our sponsor happen to be one of those? Well, not not the these two parties not capturing that andi, can’t we’re not going to give voice to anything i’m giving voice to tony. Macklin but when that’s he’s a blogger and he was good enough to submit a question in advance, please check his blogged name again. Tony c, k, l a and tony macklin. I would like to ask e-giving usa about churches. Oh no, you said, you’re you’re basing it on nine nineties, but churches aren’t required two churches and religiously affiliated non-profits aren’t required to submit nine nineties, they’re exempt. So are you missing that, or how are you capturing it? If you’re if you’re not getting it through the nineties? Very good. So the baseline estimate for religious e-giving in giving us is based on a tabulation of giving to the religion subsector includes congregations how’s the warship, not nine nineties, and once we develop that initial estimate, we have calculated the rate of change by working in partnership with religious entity such as the evangelical council financial accountability on that rate of change is what we apply to the base amount of giving to all types the religious organizations, including non christian houses of worship, which is a knife segway into the bloggers question i just wanted to mention that giving us he doesn’t take into account known itemizing stoploss diverse populations, including a number of immigrants authorities, would you? Yeah, you have to we have to cut off on it. That’s not fair, you’re transgressing again, you know, because i said, we’re not going to answer that. And now now you know, because it’s not fair, because i don’t know, i’m not we don’t have time to give rob wayto answer. Tony macklin is concerned. I’m just letting listeners know that he has those concerns. All right, we can raise owners mike when i’m sorry to do that to you, but trying trying to be fair here, you know you’re the researcher, you’ve transgressed twice, i’m watch, i got my eye on you, you see what happens theat, khadem ix to see what the academics because you used to standing in front of a class and but you can’t have your own way here. I got tio latto cafeteria cop in this in this food fight, alright, i apologize for doing that, but it is the only way i could get your attention, you know? Okay, let’s, talk about the timing that these come out rob the the adults e-giving comes out in january e-giving yusa comes out in june, um, i would think i’m going to get this to the atlas of giving folks because i would think that puts you at a disadvantage, because if non-profits tryingto develop a fund-raising plan for a year, how can they do that? If they have to wait until june of that year of the calendar year to see your results? And i got a whole caution. You really have about two minutes left in the show. Okay, i do think this goes back to our theme of reliability, the trade off between reliability and accuracy and speed. Final government data don’t are not available in until later on in the year for the previous year or even for the current period and also the process. The irs numbers only become available in the spring of the current here a swell and though their preliminary irs numbers so we’re back to the question of speed versus accuracy and the trade off. But what is the weight? But i but what is the non-profit to do? If if if they don’t get your numbers until june, right. So we do think that the june numbers provide a context for giving, and in fact, they are reliable. As we said, we’ve validated and verified that they did the monthly data available in january. With all due respect, atlas of giving is that it’s not even possible to validate and verified that number. And i do have to a question why someone would have to actually buy a product in terms of data, to figure out whether it’s okay, we’re gonna stop there. Wait, stop there, rob, you have about a minute. Well, that was a lot. You have a minute, okay? I would just say that you know, fortune five hundred companies if they were waiting for a year and a half to have information, if matile was waiting for a year and a half to have information or a forecast of what they know what’s gonna happen this this november and december and sails, they have some kind of a forecast and they’re banking on it because they have stockholders that are relying on it. So we’re using that most of the fortune five hundred companies half sales forecast that air using the same kind of technology that we use and that’s that’s what we’re about velocity and trajectory of giving. Ok, weare goingto we’re going, we’re going, we’re going to leave it there cause i have to wrap up and close the show. I’m not sure that we resolved anything, but i do think that constructive conversation is always very helpful. Maybe it just comes down teo culture. These are two very different organizations. I see atlas of giving as sort of young and upstart ishan entrepreneurial on dh, smaller and smart. I see e-giving yusa as also smart. Been around for decades, though i’m not sure what it’s forty or fifty years, but just grant me that it’s been it’s been several decades. They have a major institute behind them on that’s funded by a major foundation, the little foundations based in a major industry pharmaceuticals. So there may just come down teo culture. Which culture do you prefer? I don’t, i don’t know. I want to thank my guests. Thank you very much. Greg carlson, dahna osili and rob mitchell thanks to all three of you next week. An interview from bb con the blackbaud conference last october. I got so many great interviews there that i’m still airing them from from october next week. It’s going to be increase and engage web traffic and also scott koegler returns. He’s, our monthly tech contributor the editor of non-profit technology news going talk about making the move to the cloud rally bound and tb rc they support non-profit radio mics show make this show possible. Joe magee and joseph rabinowitz. They’re good people. Check them out, please. Rally bound dot com and trc dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, the show’s social media is by deborah askanase, a community organizer. Two point. Oh, a special shout out to deborah, thank you so much for all the advance work on this, a little more complex and interesting show. Thank you, deborah. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules also want to thank in the studio assistant producer janice taylor timekeeper. Our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. They didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 14, 2014: I Heart Institutional Funders

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Cindy Gibson: I Heart Institutional Funders

Cindy Gibson Headshot 2:14 Nonprofit radio showCindy Gibson, principal of Cynthesis Consulting, has over 26 years working in and supporting nonprofits. How do you show the love to private, public and corporate foundations? What’s the role of your board and technology in building relationships with funders? What’s the right mindset to have going in?

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host it’s valentine’s day happy valentine’s day. I hope that you have lots of special valentine’s that’s a special people in your life and you’re and you’re sending them some, uh, some love and some special wishes today. Reach out to a valentine that you haven’t talked to for a while and i’m very glad you’re with me today i’d be forced to endure geo trick oh, cece, if i came to learn that you had missed our valentine’s day show, i heart institutional funders cindy gibson principle of synthesis consulting has more than twenty six years working in and supporting non-profits how do you show the love to private public and corporate foundations? What’s the role of your board and technology in building relationships with funders what’s the right mindset tohave going into this relationship on tony’s take two my professional development survey we are brought to you by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising and by telephone bill reduction consulting trc i’m very pleased that cindy gibson is with me today. She is a practiced emmick. She has a phd and over twenty six years of experience with non-profits she has had leadership roles for several national foundations and non-profits she was a non-profit times top fifty power and influence sir she’s a principal of synthesis consulting you’ll find her on twitter as at caen gib cindy gibson welcome to the show thanks for having me tony it’s a pleasure you sound loud and clear there you sound like you’re next door but i know you’re not you’re in the yurt in massachusetts in the boston area is that right i am getting out of a lot of snow appear ok and we had a lot down here which what kept you from moving yeah that that that’s okay next time maybe where where in massachusetts are you i’m in boston okay um what come non-profits be doing better around relationship building with with funders cindy oh my gosh that’s such a huge question way haven’t our toe floor pardon me we haven’t our to explore it well let me say a couple things about it generally one of the things that we have all heard if we worked in a non-profit ing on any kind of fund-raising training which we probably all have, is that ninety nine percent of fund-raising is about people that people give people give to people again. We’ve all heard that ad nauseum, but what has really struck me is that a lot of non-profits while they get that about individual fund-raising, you know, for individual donors, they don’t necessarily get it about institutional thunders, you know, there’s more than seventy thousand foundations right now in the united states, all of which are unique and all of which have lots of people in them that have their own biases and quirks and personalities. So it’s important to get to know those folks on dh when i find is this is generally speaking, of course, some non-profits don’t operate that with that in mind, and so they they have, they tend to do some things that are probably not the best practices on i can’t talk about those if you want, we’ll get to them, okay? Oh, okay. Um, so that you’ve been on both sides of this relationship. You have worked for funders and also grantees is that? And you have your doctoral degree. Is this put all this together? That’s. What makes you a practiced emmick sort of i mean, i i was a, um i actually started out in video production for a very big non-profit that was run by norman lear, the television producer, so i really started i really learned about marketing and communications way back when before they, you know, before they became really recognized as an important part of non-profit work on dh, then i went into more foundation work, and i actually i should back-up say, was that development director for several years as well, um then worked and got into consulting and now work with mostly thunders but still it’s non-profits on program development in strategic planning, so i worked in a very large foundation full time as a program officers. So yes, i’ve worked on both sides of the death, and this makes you the practical academic record exactly like yes, because then i was getting my phd and did a lot of work with non-profit advocacy groups as a phd during a lot of research on that, so i’m able to straddle both of those worlds can talk in the thunder speak and which, you know, sometimes devolved into academic speak, but i can also work with practitioners because i have been a practitioner, i’ve been on the ground now in our discussion, we’re not talking about government funding, is that right? We’re just why? Why is government funding different than the corporate or the private or public foundation funding? I think it’s a little bit more formal it’s, certainly much more codified in terms of their ten government, tends to have a lot of, um, templates for their funding applications. You need a lot of data, you need to be really prepared for those application processes. I think there are some personal aspects of that relationship in terms of government funding, but i don’t think it’s, as um, is quirky as it is with foundations, every foundation, as you know, it’s very different, okay? And i guess sounding like tougher to build a relationship with a program officer at a government agency that it would be at the funders that we’re going to be talking about. I just my personal experiences that i think it’s a little bit harder government does tend to be more of a faceless bureaucratic institution, then i think some sounds so nineteen, eighty four bleak and certainly it’s. Not government fund-raising has certainly not been something that i have been immersed, nor joy necessarily want to be that’s the way it sounds. Okay. All right, well, we’re not holding you. Yeah, we’ll just i want to make that distinction to everyone stands what we are, what we aren’t talking about. We’re talking about all the other institutional funders. All right, so you said you have some some ideas around. Did you see a phrase it as good practices or bad practices way could start there? Well, let me just let me just say going back to what i was talking about at the opening, that you know what non-profits do sometimes even though they say they understand the importance of developing relationships with, i’m going to say foundations, meaning generally, you know, corporate institutional foundations, family foundations, all kinds of foundations, they tend to operating campaign mowed a lot of times, and they jump in and say, you know, we need to raise a million dollars from ah foundations by the end of next year, andi so they start jumping in about you know which foundations to re approach with the stuff we’re doing or they look at their calendar and guidelines, you know, of these foundations, and they start dreaming up something that seems to be a match and then tried to sell it through a proposal or a letter. Ah, that usually doesn’t work because, again, there’s no connection between the organizations and who they’re trying to reach out tio perfect examples, they just had coffee with somebody the other day who runs a medium sized non-profit that’s been around for a while, and they used to get most of their income from their conference fees. But as the years have gone by, the conference has sort of not been attracting as much and earned revenue, so they need to branch out and do other kinds of fund-raising in the first thing she said to me is, well, we need to raise six million dollars by the end of next year, and my question to her was, well, okay, so who are you looking at? And do you have any kinds of relationships with them? And, you know, she stared at me blankly and said, well, no, you know, we’re just we just think that they’ll get it basically, and and then i asked her, have you ever invited him to your conference before? Have they come? You know, no, they never have so it’s a great example of how they sometimes non-profits don’t think about these kinds of things. Another thing they don’t think about right away is whether they should even be targeting institutional thunders for their funding in the first place. You know, in a lot of meetings, i’m sure a lot of your listeners have where non-profits will sit down, the staff will sit down and they’ll say, well, we want to get money from the gates foundation, you know, we’re in education non-profit why shouldn’t we get money from the gates foundation and failing to think again about that? Five million other people would like to get money from the gates foundation, and even particularly small and midsized organizations are probably gonna have a really hard time, even if they know somebody at the gates foundation getting money from them. So that’s that’s sort of another thing that that i see a lot a lot happened, okay, we’re goingto take our first break, and when we come back, cindy and i, cindy, you and i will will explore some of these. In detail and start going into whether you should. I mean that’s, a very good threshold. Question. Whether even, should be approaching institutional funders hang in there. You didn’t even think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get thank you. Think xero good. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got to send some valentine’s live listener love new york, new york mountain view, california and westchester p a live listener love out to you we also got south haven michigan valentine’s live listener love let’s go abroad lugano, spain somewhere in el salvador’s, little mast we can’t tell what city el salvador live listener loved to you let’s say hello to japan konnichi wa tio witco, kush agha and tokyo i know you don’t celebrate valentine’s day, but we do here and you could be a valentine even if you aren’t in the confines of the united states. You certainly get valentine’s live listener love from non-profit radio from me from the heart. Okay, sin. Give cindy gibson. Um, how do we know whether we should be going to institutions for the money that we need in this? In your case, that great hypotheticals. Six million dollar gap within the next year? Uh, well, i think first of all, you have to do your research again. This is something that everybody says, but it’s amazing how many non-profits don’t take the time to dig down and really look at the institution they’re approaching, another examples i had a friend who works in a higher education organization in the development office and, you know, this is an office that’s got amazing numbers of staff to do this kind of research, and she said they hardly ever do it. They have again start where they’re doing stuff about possible foundations without thinking about, you know, whether they’ve even look to see if there’s a match in terms of the foundation’s interests and what they’re doing now can’t. The foundation center is a good resource for that, right? Correct on guide star and in my opinion, one of the best ways to see what foundations air funding our toe. Look at your quote, competitors, people, other organizations in your field to see who they’re getting money from. How would you how would you go about that? It’s? Very easy. You can go look at guidestar again. You can look at their web sites. A lot of times organizations will have ah, ah, a link to our donors or our supporters. Um, you sometimes can see them in the nineteen nineties or in the foundation center. Annual reports. You know, there’s. All kinds of ways to find out another way you can do that as another friend of mine, who’s, a great fundraiser, says that he actually will call up some of his colleagues and other organizations and ask them to make an introduction for him. Granted, that doesn’t always work because sometimes organizations are competitive and they get a little proprietary. But he said he found that it works for him and and in return, he will then introduce some of his colleague organizations to funders when they asked that’s very interesting, very collegial. Okay, so even if it works just a quarter of the time still, you’re getting you’re getting warm introduction vs cold introductory letter or letter of inquiry? Correct again, you know, i would say that cold introductory cold calls and cold proposals and e mails probably only work about one out of a thousand attempts. Oh, my goodness, i will say, is the former development director i have had not happened. One but that’s very rare. Okay, so so we need to be developing the relationship before we ask for money. So this is is that what you’re that’s? What you’re proposing, it is and i think that goes back to getting back to digging around for research is the second part of that is once you figure out if there is a match with what you’re selling, and i do want to say one thing about again trying to decide whether you’re right for institutional thunders is just because, again, you just because you may have somethingto sell them, which, again, sometimes a lot non-profits don’t i really have something to sell institutional thunders they think they do because they get very wrapped up in what they’re doing in its great work, and we all, i think it’s, great work, but there’s a tendency for all of us to get steeped into our own narrative. I might run a terrific after school arts program that’s great in my community, but taking that to ah, larger funder not not a local thunder, for example, who might be interested that somebody like, you know, a bigger national or even state funder may not be the best approach. So really, really thinking about, you know, whether there’s a match if you do decide there’s a match and if you think there is a good match and you do have something to sell. Then the next step, of course, is finding out who’s behind jews, institutional walls and how you can get to those people. How can you develop those relationships? Okay. And i only know the, um the foundation center as a source for who’s who’s on the board of a non-profit of a foundation is that is looking at the board members the good wayto ah, good way to see whether there’s a relationship that might exist between your organization and there’s. Well, so the first step is yes. I mean, go the foundation center. Ask around to your colleagues, as i mentioned. Look at their lists and who’s funding them again. This is not a linear process. I mean, it’s. Clearly, you know, something that you have to sort of work at all different angles. You scour lists and lists and lists and look at who are who are their trustees, who are the program’s staff members and sometimes who are who are the staff members that aren’t necessarily in the program that you’re interested in, but that are related to that program area and the institution that you never you never you be surprised you. Might know, or you might know someone who knows again look into their funding, contact them, there’s lots of ways to get it. Who’s, the president of the of the institution, you know all kinds of ways to look at an institution, and you really should look at it thoroughly. And then the next step is the personal, um, aspects of this, which all comes down to networking. Andi, let me let me bring in the role of your own board as you’re trying to determine where the relationships may exist, hoping that there is one all those lists that you talked about, those should be shared with your own board as well. Right? So starting with the basic premise is that all non-profits i don’t care how small they are, um, or helping they are they have networks, um, that they need to work and they have power in those networks. And i think getting non-profits toe understand that sometimes it is difficult there’s always six degrees of separation among all parties involved in these kinds of relationships, building exercises and that’s what you have to look at clearly the board can’t stress this enough is your number one? Resource for developing personal relationships? Um, if you don’t have a board that’s going to help you make those connections, you need thio either get one on dh. You do that by developing a relationship with your board chair so that you can identify potential board members that do have connections that you need to work and that i should say, isn’t aside that’s not just people with money putting them on you more, but people who may have lots of different networks within your community, like, you know, they know the real estate developer or they know the head of the local bank get some on your board or, you know, people who can help you just reach out to different places that you may not be able to reach out to. Um so what do you do with the board? You get into the habit of asking your board every single board meeting to look at who you’re looking at in terms of approaching, um and their names on a list of the names of the people in associating with that institution and one of the things i’ve actually been the chair of? Ah, couple development committee’s on a board, um, one of the hazards of knowing howto fund-raising when you get on board, you always end up being the chairs are well, they’re using you for your expertise the way you’re suggesting listeners do with the person who knows the developed the local real estate developer. Right? Well, see you. So what? What i try, i will speak from my own personal experience, and it seems to have worked well is that i’ve usually as the board a person who works on development, um, and p s it’s really good to have a development, share your board, who really focuses on this and who works directly with the director of development of that organization to prepare those lists for every board meeting. And so what we tried to do in the boards i sat on is that we integrate every board, meaning we not only build in on a permanent agenda item fund-raising you know, we make that a priority for a board meeting and takes an intentional you need to be intentional about that, but we also i would allocate ten or fifteen minutes every board meeting to pass those lists around during the board meaning and ask the board members to check off whom they knew at these various institutions if they knew anyone what their connections might be and give them five or ten minutes to do that, and then you can collect those that information before the board meeting ends because we all know if you don’t do that and you say i’ll follow up with you on, i’ll send you this email and ask if any of the lifts it’s really hard to get those responses back. So this way, you really make a point of getting boardmember every meeting to think about who they know, another thing you should put on that list at the very end is the question who isn’t on this list that i’m giving you that should be on dh that, you know, i might be able to help us get into another constitutional thunder that you might know of. All right, so you yes. You want to see this as a regular part of board meetings? Yep. D’oh, i will say that i’m not naive. I mean, i know that this is not something that a lot of non-profits and board feel comfortable if you know i know a lot of remembers hate fund-raising they have a negative perception of it, you really have to work to change the culture of those boards and speaking from personal experience, i have to say that it that takes time, you know, you have tio, um, integrate this notion that it’s everyone’s job fund-raising, um, talking about, you know, a giver get policy where every boardman member makes a contribution but also commits in writing, preferably on that can talk about that, but to joe, nate, um, other things, and that includes connections, you know, saying i will give you a personal contribution, but then i will also help you get access, teo, at least five other people, including people who work in institutions that, you know, might be able to give you money. So getting bored, you know, to do that, sometimes you can train them sometimes i bring in people who are really great at this and do trainings with board members, um, and the other thing you have to do is you have to make it pleasant for them, you know, if you’re asking them if you’re following up on a boardmember who says i know? Joe blow at this foundation and following up, by the way, is really important people don’t do that, but if following up with boardmember and saying, ok, so, you know, this person work with us just to develop a strategy to getting in front of this person and if, you know, take them with you on the visit before you take them two on the visit, make sure that you give them the research on the back-up they need to speak comfortably a lot of board members, even though they might know somebody and a foundation doesn’t mean that they know what to say once they get there. Okay, so, you know, making it easy for them to work with you gives them it’s just more pleasant for them, and they start to understand the process more. Okay on. So we’re starting now we’re moving from you found where the relationships are. Two howto start to make introduction to the to the institution, to the people that are known in the institution. Um and so you okay? I understand. You’re suggesting the boardmember is going to make that introduction? How best, teo, how best to structure that meeting should should. You invite the the program officer or whoever it is that’s known at the at the funder to come to your office to see maybe to your facility. To see the work that you’re doing is that is that kind of introduction. Every meeting. I think there’s some other things to say yeah, i mean, there are other things to do. I mean, there are ways to get noticed it’s not just, you know, it’s, not just your board, it’s also, you know, who does the executive director? Not director might already know that person. And so it really depends on what kind of relationship you have ahead of time. You know, what kind of meeting structure? Okay, you have to be so set up a strategy for each from actual fundez tronvig approach is going to be different every meeting you’re going to have to it that’s what? I mean, this is this is time consuming work, and it really takes constant attention to making sure that somebody is paying attention to, you know, which means can we get which people are going to that meeting who’s? What are we going to say? Are we even going to ask for money at this meeting? You know, all of those things have to be taken into considering okay, we’re developing a strategy just as t follow the parallel that you mentioned early on which same thing we would do with individuals weii, we know. Someone or we want to know someone how do we get to them? Who could make the introduction and what’s our strategy for that individual it’s identical on the on the institutional side, i would say yes in terms of of that relation. And then of course, then there are differences in terms of, um, you know, institutions, individuals are goingto a general statement, but individuals generally are going to be a little bit more interested in the personal relationship that they may have with either your organization or the issue that you are focused on. And that is actually the case for a lot of family foundations as well, and foundations that are located in the local errors, they’re really interested in local funding. National or bigger foundations are not going to be attuned to, you know, the personal interests. You know, for example, i am a a family foundation, and a lot of times, you know, that’s a small foundation but it’s run by or involved individuals who are, you know, may have a personal connection to the free health clinic in their community. Their relative went there and got great service, so they really wantto support that. Organization so you’re going toe have a little different? Um, angle, when you going to talk with, um, could be much more personal to them, then you would going into a new institutional thunder that doesn’t have that that’s a little bit more formal, they’re not going to care as much. I don’t think about the fact that their brother went there to get service, although of course that helps, but they’re going to be much more interested in, you know, what is this organization you’re talking about? What are you doing? What’s the evidence that you have that you’re better than any other organization i should fund, you know, what’s your value at it, and i will say it’s an aside, that is one one thing that non-profits overlook a lot when they go to meet with institutional thunders is toe understand that these people see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people who were doing very similar things that you might be doing. And if you can’t tell them where you fit in your quote market, what makes you valuable? What makes you distinct of? And then what? How your work compliments what other people are doing in your field? I would say nine times out of ten it’s not going to be a strong cell for them. Okay, way really important. Remembers a lot more to say about that. Okay? Yep. Thank you. Because we have to go out for a break. And when we come back tony’s take two and then cindy and i are going to keep talking, but we’re going to move along to social media. And what is true networking? How do you get yourself out there to be known within the work that you do so stay with us. Oh, that’s, right? We don’t have a break. I just ah, i’m thinking on the old model i just transition two talking about the amazing sponsors that we have that helped me to bring the amazing guests that we have, like cindy gibson rally bound, for instance, they do peer-to-peer fund-raising you’ve heard me say this a couple times in the past, they are a rally bound dot com they create help you to create campaigns that are friends asking friends to give to your cause. You get a discount as a non-profit radio listener, as people have done, i’m very glad that people are talking to joe magee at rally bound. It doesn’t have to be a run walk, ride or race could be, but does not have to be event based. Um, joe was telling me about grades of green in los angeles. They used rally bound to raise twenty three thousand dollars through their youth corps. This is a group of advisors who are in grades three to twelve, and each of them in the youth corps set up personal e-giving pages ask their friends to give, and they raised twenty two thousand dollars grades three through twelve that’s, i think, is pretty cool. You can speak to joe magee that rally bound he’ll answer your questions there’s no pressure that they just don’t work like that. He is at triple eight seven, six, seven nine o seven six or rally bound dot com also tea brc cost recovery is a sponsor yourself rabinowitz besides saving money on phone bills, he can save you money on credit card fees. When donors make a credit card gift, you don’t change companies, yussef talks to your existing credit card processor to get them to lower the fee that you pay on each. Transaction those feeds add up. I’m sure you’ve seen if you if you haven’t take a look at your last bill, those credit card fees are taking money out of your pocket and sometimes cos ray’s their rates. Ah, and sometimes more than once a year. Even so, yussef will get you a lower rate and then actually monitor your bills for three years to make sure that the fees don’t rise and if he doesn’t lower your rate, you don’t pay him. I’ve known yourself close to ten years he’s also no pressure. I just don’t work with people like that. You can talk to yourself at two one, two, six, double four, nine triple xero which would also be to one, two, six, six four, nine thousand or he’s at tbe rc dot com. I have a professional development survey on my block. I’m interested in what you do to keep current and fresh in your work clearly non-profit radio is an integral part of that there’s, no question about that, but what else are you doing? Webinars conferences, blog’s books, whatever it is you’re doing, i’m interested doesn’t matter whether you’re in a non-profit or your consulting. I’m interested in how you keep up with what’s new around non-profits the survey is on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, fourteenth of february valentine’s day and this is the seventh show of the year coming back from the break. That really wasn’t a break, but because we used to take a break. But that was my mistake. Cindy gives him still with us, right? I am here’s, your paper shuffling. I hope you’re not reading from papers. Hope not. Okay, um, so let’s, talk about getting out there a bit. You have some ideas that are beyond what i think people typically think of is as networking in getting your you and your organization known you have a lot of ideas, but i think the first one clearly is can’t stress this enough. As the executive director has to be out in the world, they have to be visible on. And they have to be seen as an influential in the field. They have to be at the table when there are meetings of their peers. Um, they are it’s great for them to be to put them make. Sure, they’re on panels at conferences where institutional thunders are going to be over there. Staff i i think it’s important to ask the executive director, too, right or blogged, you know, funders notice that stuff a perfect example is a an organization that i pulled in to write an article with about something for you pretty well known magazine in the field. Um, that article caught the attention of a very, very large funder, um, in on the west coast to now wants tohave an entire conference with fifty or so other funders based on that article on dh, this is a an executive director who absolutely refused to even consider writing anything because she didn’t have time to do it, and i feel like that’s missing a huge opportunity, going to make the time to do that stuff i think you need to be as you touched on tony about social media think you it would be good, teo, you know, get a twitter account like tony and i have on by, you know, constantly tweet what you’re doing or get your staff to tweet what you’re doing. Ah, funders air getting on twitter a lot of the staff of foundations are on twitter andi even the presidents are starting to get there much more slowly, but they are, um, ask other people who you know that are influential teo and on social media to tweet and talk about the stuff your organization is doing as well and funded that their network and then also, um, aside aside from your own twitter stream, would be the importance of who you start following you want you want to be following all the all the funders that you’re interested in that’s, right? And because you’ll learn from that you want to be listening as well as talking on twitter? Absolutely. And when you see, for example, that a donor or a program staff member has perhaps tweeted something about, you know, their latest publication or whatever, you can either retweet that or you, then you can follow up with them and send them a direct message and say, hey, you know, i just saw your tweet, we have ah project going on like this, just in case you’re interested, you know it. And if a donor does recognize you, if the fun a thunder does tweet something about you or put it on, lengthen or on facebook always respond to that, you know, even if even if that thunder doesn’t say, well, we just funded this organization, even if they’re just talking about you or your issue, try teo, monitor that stuff and make sure you follow-up and say thank you, and, uh, they love to talk to you about this sometime if you have a chance. That’s ah, that’s just good good engagement online practice is correct and as we know more and more, fund-raising becomes more more moving toe online, you cannot separate engagement anymore from from fundrasing and it’s a critical thing for non-profits to think about it, they move forward. What about over on linked in if you if you find groups that are around the cause or causes that you’re involved with participating in groups, i think that’s a great suggestion example is, you know, just the other day i was scrolling around linked in, and i saw that robert wood johnson foundation, for example, had a group that they were had a group, that they have a group on there for professionals who are working in the health arena, and so i clicked on it and i said, you know, send us your name and we’ll we’ll see whether you qualify and and turns out they did, and so now i’m on that that group, so i never would have thought of that, had i not been, you know, just sort of looking around on lengthen so it’s a great suggestion, i think i want to say again, this amazes me how you forget this is that when you’re having, when you’re non-profits having a special event or an open house or a conference or some kind of public event invite thunders, they’re invite prospect thunder’s not just your current owners invite people that you’ve always wanted teo get in front of to those events, it’s just a really easy way to get in front of these people and let them know that you’re around, and you’d be surprised sometimes they show up and that gets this is a really important point, i wantto emphasize, is that it? I don’t think it’s the best strategy for even when you do have a contact in a relationship with this person, say on twitter or is to just go right in and start thinking about ok? How much they got money from them now that i have this connection, one of them a strategy that i used as a development director and i’ll pass this along because it worked well for us and this organization was that every time our organization would do a new publication or we were mentioned in the new york times or we had, like, some sort of shout out from on influential i would pull together that information, and i would look att i would send it to two types of thunders the people who already funded us as well as i had a list of prospect fundez foundations that i’d wanted to get in contact for a long time, and i would send them a different kind of note, and the note would basically say, we know you’re interested in this issue. We just happened to have done this new publication or hears this article that mentions us, and i didn’t ask him for money. It was basically just saying thought you’d want to know about this, and we would do that for about six months or so just to let those thunders know that we were around and to get it in front of them. And so by the time that we were ready to try to make a strategy to get in front of them, tow, have a conversation. Um, they were already somewhat familiar with us. They knew our names at least and just a p s. If you can get your board or your executive director to write personal notes at the bottom of those kinds of notes or an email, so much the better. Okay, the and that’s, another parallel with individual fund-raising were that’s, right? Were routinely inviting potential donors to events not only existing, not only donors potential donors as well. Another parallel. Um um ok, um, let’s see? So you’re something you’re concerned is that too much of the thinking is around. It is being a transaction and not a genuine relationship. I think that’s a great point on dh it’s something that i talked to people about it cause i get asked a lot about networking because i, um known for that i love connecting people. I have lots of different networks on one of the first things i say that people is. Is that if you go in too? Ah. Networking and i’m going to a meeting quote to network if you go into that meeting with the attitude that i need to reach this person because i can get something from them or i want to get money from them, so i really need to go network with them. I don’t think that’s gonna serve you well in a long time. It’s not even genuine it’s it’s not genuine is not a relationship. It’s ah, i’ll give you a perfect example of that transaction. I had a, um coffee with a person who runs a nonprofit in new york. You drink a lot called me a lot of coffee meetings you have well, networking e i don’t drink coffee and i hardly even drink tea, so no whoa, no e-giving teo can’t invite somebody over sabat skim milk and no, because i really do believe in people who know me know this. I meet with everybody who just about everybody who asks me to me or talk to them or to make a connection or help them make a connection because they think it’s important, and it does come back to you over the long term, even when you’re not looking for something in return, it does help in a long term, and again, this example is this is a man who runs a really great non-profit and he was in trouble, he was having trouble financially, and he wanted me to help him broker some relationships with some foundations, and i suggested a person who was fairly high up in the food chain and a very large foundation that he should meet with and his first response wass why would i want to talk to this thunder she’s not interested in what we do she’s never going to find us? They’re never going to find us, and, you know, it had to gently remind him that every opportunity that you have to get in to these places, whether or not they’re going to give you money or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s all good. You never know when that contact is going to lead to something else thunders talk to each other program officers talk to each other all the time about organizations, and they are really good about saying, oh, we can’t fund this organization, but maybe you can it just so happens that this person and i was trying to connect him with is known in the foundation world for being a huge connector, and that if she can’t fund you, she will remember your organization and recommend it to other funders and other foundations. And he actually sent me an e mail a couple days later and said, i’m so glad you said that to me. I just i really needed to be reminded of that. We have to take a break. When we come back, i’m going to ask cindy whether program officers are nice people. Nick, stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? 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Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We got more live listener love, let’s. Go abroad, teo teo to asia and without soul and five other people whose locations are masked in in south korea, but certainly wishing you valentine’s and on your haserot, also in japan, shirakawa joined us and beverly, massachusetts not which is not in asia it’s far but it tze not far from cindy gibson. Ah, it’s ah, but is not in asia you, despite what most new yorkers think, live listener love and valentine’s day wishes to beverly massachusetts r program officers. Nice people, cindy it’s. A great question, but it’s like asking, you know, are all radio announcers. Nice people are are all chefs nice? Of course. But in ah, seriousness. I think you would get different answers to that. Depending on who you asked, i actually have a friend who’s written a hilarious article about the various types of program officers that he’s given them all names and everything. Which is quite funny. Where can we find? Where can we find his article? Well, i’m actually trying to get him to publish because he’s, of course, like a lot of people are scared. It’s, hard to be, you know, honest. It’ll block out what goes on in foundation on and raise money at the same time. Um, but but for the most part, my experiences that program officers are are nice people in terms of their there tio advocate for you on and i think that’s important to keep in mind, yeah, let’s, let’s explore that they’re they’re advocating for you to their organization and they’re bored, right? And you need to help. How do you how do you how do you help them do that? Well, first of all, you a couple things you listen, i can’t say this enough a lot of good fund-raising is learning when to shut up and when to talk and when to listen to what they’re saying to you on dh because they are there to help you. Now that doesn’t mean that you you have to be a sink offense to program office there’s a lot of grumbling goes on legitimately from non-profit people saying that, you know, program officers are pain in the butt, they can be gay keepers, they can throw obstacles in your way, they can make a completely unreasonable demands, and that is a whole other show that you could explore about the tension that that happens between program officers and program staff and non-profits lots to say about that. But you, you know, you do want to go in with a sort of attitude that my work deserves your support. This is a really great thing that you should be supporting, and then how can we work together to make that happen? You know, ah, great story about another story is that when i was at carnegie foundation that i used to work at, i had a very entrepreneurial woman come to see me, whose whose organization you would know your listeners would now on, and she came with a friend who who actually happens to be a friend of mine as well, just for moral support. And she proceeded to tell me all about organization and how great it wass and i didn’t get a word in edgewise, and so when i finally got to talk to her, i said, you know, i love your organization personally, but this is never going to pass muster with our decision makers because it just doesn’t fit and it’s their job to basically throw a wrench in everything we we advocate for because that’s their job, they only have a limited amount of funds and they have to decide. So i gave her a bunch of advice about here’s what i think you could help you get through. You should change this, try to look at this. I didn’t want to change her program, i didn’t want to give her, you know, i didn’t want to make her completely jump through hoops, which i have to say, a lot of program office or sometimes d’oh all i was saying is, if you literally just massage the language a little bit and changed the angle that might help, what happened was i got a request that completely ignored everything i said to her on dh i had to write or a turn down and say, you know, it’s nice about it, but they said i’m sorry, but this isn’t gonna work and she was furious with me, you know? So from that side of the desk, i have to say it’s, it’s, it’s frustrating when you want to help and you can’t wait can’t move on yet. Do you still have that friend, the friend who came with the fan? The fan you’re still friends are ok, right? You didn’t lose a friendship over this. Did you permit? You did lose a friendship over there. I know. He actually agreed with me and he was he was embarrassed, but the woman was still talks about it. He still talks about it. The woman wasn’t listening. Didn’t listen to you, didn’t yeah, stand aside. She then went around me to the president and, you know, that’s always no that’s, usually not a good idea. And most presidents will kick down, kick them back to you. Of course. Yeah. And so, you know, anyway, so the other thing i wanted to say, a couple things is you have another thing i would recommend with your prada monsters is that you be honest all the time. I know it’s hard, to be honest. They know it’s not rewarded a lot of times. But, you know, you have to make a choice. You know, you can lie to them on dh. That that’s a risk you could take, and it might work for you. But if they find out that you’re lying and they usually dio through other program officers again or their colleagues you don’t win at all. I mean, i’ve you know, i’ve had i’ve heard of grand cheese and i’ve experienced snusz of, you know, the executive director’s air leaving or they aren’t making their budget, and i had to hear about it through a third person, and it really isn’t a great way way have we have just about a minute or so left. So on, um, on the note of be honest, which i always advise clients to do, i want to leave with this. I want you, teo, tell us what you love about the work that you do, cindy um, i love the variety of it. I love that i get to work on different kinds of issues with all different kinds of of organizations, and mostly i love that i get to work in a sphere that reflects the values that i feel personally committed to. Cindy gibson is a practiced emmick. You’ll find her at synthesis, consulting and synthesis spelled with a c because her name is cynthia synthesis consulting dot com and also on twitter at caen gib si n g i b cindy, thank you so much for being a guest in sharing. So it is my pleasure. Thanks for having me. My pleasure next week. You do not want to miss this, its face off atlas of giving and giving yusa for the first time they will be face to face rather than talking at each other in the media. I should say in other media, other media forbes dot com dubbed it the philanthropy food fight. And i wish i had thought of that. Each of these companies that does broad analysis of fund-raising results has problems with the way the other measures and forecasts they’ll talk through their issues. We will take your questions and i will moderate that’s next week. Remember rally bound and telephone bill reduction consulting joe magee and yourself rabinowitz they support non-profit radio. They’re good people. Please check them out. Rally bound dot com and t brc dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big. Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. They didn’t think that shooting the good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. You waiting to get in? Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m lost in a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Geever

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Image courtesy of Anne Davis 773, Creative Commons license
Image courtesy of Anne Davis 773, Creative Commons license

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