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[00:01:28.93] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me This week’s show. John Haydon, tribute. Well respected and widely known digital fundraising expert with a willing smile, John Hayden died at 53 in February after two years and two months fight against a rare cancer. He was twice a guest on non profit radio. He shares his spoken wisdom with us one last time. If you want John’s last written wisdom, get his book Donor Care, published posthumously by bold and bright media. I wish he and I had talked about it. I hope to have one of his book collaborators as a guest. There’s no tony take to this week, and our sponsors won’t object to just an end credit for this show without interruption There. This is gonna be hard for May at Ah, Here are John’s two appearances on non profit radio. The first is Facebook Fundamentals from December 16 2011 then boost revenue with donor surveys. Rachel Mirror is with John at the 2016 non profit Technology Conference this aired on September 30th 2016. Here is non profit radios. Tribute to John Haydon.

[00:01:32.29] spk_1:
Joining me now is John Hayden. John. How you doing?

[00:01:35.67] spk_3:
Tony, how are you?

[00:01:37.67] spk_1:
I’m doing great, Thank you. John is calling from Cambridge, Massachusetts. He’s the principal of inbound zombie consultants in online strategy and social strategy for small and midsize nonprofits. That’s the audience here in the U. S. And Canada. He’s also co author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies. And he’s well known for having simple ideas for getting the most from social media. John Hayden Welcome to the show.

[00:02:02.13] spk_3:
Thank you for having me, appreciate.

[00:02:05.04] spk_1:
Oh, it’s a pleasure. Um, Facebook. Why should non profits pay attention to and be on Facebook?

[00:02:12.51] spk_3:
Why Facebook? Well, the simple answer is that everybody’s on Facebook. Okay, Um, and regardless of where, you know, it’s not really about the platform. It’s about where people are. And as you may know, and maybe some of our your listeners may know Facebook has about 800 million active users.

[00:02:33.26] spk_1:
Okay,

[00:02:42.92] spk_3:
so these are people that actually log into Facebook 30 minutes, three hours a day. They’re checking in on their iPhone or iPad on browsers and support interconnecting with their friends,

[00:02:48.82] spk_1:
John. 30 minutes to three hours. So even at the short end, on average, people are spending a long time on this one place.

[00:03:15.19] spk_3:
Yeah, exactly. You know, I kind of look at it like the morning coffee routine. You know, maybe 30 years ago, people used to open up a newspaper. How people open up Facebook and they see they get their news. What? What, My friend? Sharing what’s new in the world today. What’s you know, whose birthday is it today? You know, things like that. I mean, it’s really a central part of the culture today, and so non profit, just like when the television came out and certain non profit said while we need to start doing something for TV in the same way, they kind of need to look at where people are using social media, which is, you know, really Facebook at this point.

[00:03:33.83] spk_1:
Oh, so you sort of used those anonymously.

[00:04:10.34] spk_3:
Yeah. So not profit. You know, sometimes I get this question. She’s social media. So many platforms. Where should I? What should I do? I said, look, if you’re not doing idiot all first of all, you get your website straight. You know, make sure you get that first. But don’t think about this huge social media thing. Just think about Facebook because that’s really where you should start. That’s where your constituents are gonna be guaranteed. Your volunteers are gonna be Their donors are gonna be there, not all of them granted. But you know the majority of them on, you know, the fact is that 89% non profits are now using Facebook. So if you are non profit thinking about Facebook, you kind of have to look at what your peers are doing. Well,

[00:04:58.87] spk_1:
yeah, OK, um and I pulled listeners before the show and thank you very much for for retweeting the the the short link to the pole many times. I appreciate that, Andi. One of the questions was, Does your non profit have a Facebook page? So our audience is a little behind the national average. About 77% said yes, and the remainder said no. I better listen to the show so that other 23% or so we’re gonna try to convert them. We just have about two minutes before the break. So I want to just tease a little bit. How do we just how do we just get started? Get started getting started, and then we’ll be out. You and I will be able to spend a lot more time on that after the break.

[00:05:18.27] spk_3:
The best place to start is to have a plan. You know, do some research on Facebook. I actually a website called the non profit Facebook guy dot com non profit. A lot of articles on there, but, you know, come up with a plan and really try and develop a strategy as to where Facebook would fit within your overall marketing communications fundraising plan. And then you really want to start with a Facebook page?

[00:05:31.52] spk_1:
Okay. And, um, we’ll get to the different types of pages because I know this could be some confusion around that after the break. Just in a minute or so. What are the pieces of that strategy or planned? What topic areas should be in there.

[00:06:42.34] spk_3:
Okay, so the topic area would be what are your goals? Specific goals. What do you want to be achieving with Facebook? And it again? It does help to understand what Facebook is good at. What Facebook is not good at understanding kind of its role within your overall communication plan. And then the other thing is, you know what’s going to be your content strategy? What is really unique about your organization, what gets people talking? You know, when you meet people, your supporters volunteers when you meet them and an event and you’re in coffee and bagels together, what is it that gets them really excited? And what did they like? What they like to talk about what they like to share with friends. Build a content strategy around that so that you’re pushing out consistent content on Facebook, which is really kind of the central central point of Facebook. It’s not kind of a static Web page. It’s really not bad. It’s more kind of a living, breathing dialogue that you’re having with your constituents is really the best way to be using a page.

[00:07:07.43] spk_1:
John, we’re gonna take a break, and we’ll get into more detail after this break with John Hayden, author, co author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies and I hope you will Stay with Us. Welcome back. We’re talking about Facebook fundamentals with John Hayden and John before we get into more detail about getting started and the different types of Facebook pages. I am dying to know why your company’s called Inbound Zombie. What is that?

[00:07:25.23] spk_3:
Okay, so impound Zombie, quite honestly, I just literally came up with the name. I’ve always been a fan of zombies, just that zombie movies and what not I find it fascinating and read books about that, and I just felt like, you know, zombie culture will probably be around for a long time. So if I come

[00:07:30.42] spk_1:
for the business

[00:07:58.18] spk_3:
name, that is Oh, current, I’ll always be current. Only after then, you know, maybe like a year later it started having meaning to me like mortar zombies. And this idea that you know what I do for non profit It’s kind of create a situation where people come to them like they actually get to a point where they don’t their constituents in their volunteers. Let’s imagine that they’re like positive zombies that are really smart. They can’t help but come towards the organization. They can’t help but be attracted to the organization through using the Internet.

[00:08:28.39] spk_1:
Okay, okay, as long as they’re positive zombies, not the ones that are, you know, that have the wrapping dangling off them and their bloody and their eyes were just sockets. And as long it’s not that kind. That would cool. All right. Positive zombies on Di did see on Twitter that at Wild Woman fund his mastery in trays, who has been a guest on the show. She looks like she spends more like five hours on Facebook. So I hope our clients are not suffering misery. No hope your client work getting done and other important things in your life are being done and maybe just sleeping less than the rest of us. Okay, John,

[00:08:42.12] spk_0:
what are the different types

[00:08:42.99] spk_1:
of pages? That could be some confusion around that the type of page that a charity should set up on Facebook?

[00:10:06.05] spk_3:
Okay, that’s a great question. So, you know, common mistake that I see is that you know, someone will say, Oh, you know, I just started. I started a Facebook page for my non profit and, you know, how do I get more friends? And so what happens is that sometimes an organization will actually create a Facebook profile, which is for the personal use on. They’ll be using that for their organization, which is basically a violation of the Facebook terms and conditions A and B. It’s not the most effective type of tool to be using. So what I just mentioned the Facebook profile is really what those 800 million people 800 million Facebook users. They’re all using a Facebook program. You know, you share photos with your friends. You check in to Facebook places, you make a status update, connect with high school friends, that type of thing. So that’s that’s really meant for a person now a Facebook page or business page, sometimes called a fan page, since some people might know it is a fan page. That’s really where an organization wants to be starting. And the best way to do this is to go to facebook dot com booking dot com forward slash pages forward slash creates that, Not PHP.

[00:10:14.21] spk_1:
Yes, and then

[00:10:39.70] spk_3:
you want to pick either a local business or place or a company organization or institutions are two different types of Facebook pages. There are six types in total, but these two really apply to nonprofits. A local Peyton place of business might be a museum. That’s a that’s a non profit. The company organization institution might be, say, a foundation that is in a corporate park where really nobody visits them. So you wouldn’t want to advertise the address and location of the business that much. But you still want to have a Facebook page. So these are two different types of pages,

[00:10:52.58] spk_1:
Okay? And it sounds like for our audience, probably the first of those two is more appropriate.

[00:11:00.89] spk_3:
Yeah, Local place or business? Yeah, either one.

[00:11:03.51] spk_1:
Okay, So what can they do on this? Well, eh, So how do they create the fan page? What should be included in it?

[00:11:11.14] spk_3:
Okay, so when you create the fan page, I actually have some videos that you go to non profit facebook dot com. I actually have a few video tutorials about that. But what they want to do is they want to upload a mean image.

[00:11:22.25] spk_1:
John, I’m sorry. Say that you are l one more time that people can go to for the video.

[00:11:30.72] spk_3:
Oh, sure, it’s non profit facebook guy dot com. And then they could just kind of search for it like a little search box.

[00:11:33.98] spk_1:
Was that guy, guy or guide?

[00:11:38.38] spk_3:
I like like you. Why

[00:11:39.52] spk_2:
a

[00:11:39.56] spk_1:
guy like a man. Okay, non profit Facebook guy dot com. Okay, Thank

[00:12:01.64] spk_3:
you. Create the page. You upload a main image. The video kind of walks you through this whole thing, but you want to create the most important thing is probably creating a welcome tab, a custom welcome tap. And the reason why this is important, tony, is because eventually on organization will want to promote the page, you know, through email. Or however they’re gonna have people show up and like the page

[00:12:10.38] spk_1:
exactly

[00:12:38.67] spk_3:
do something on the page. They want to be able to convert the fans. Okay, so when someone shows up, they were gonna make a decision in less than two seconds, whether they should like that page or not. And, you know, it’s been a few studies on this, but organizations that have a welcome cab, which is basically like it could be an image, and it’s just kind of a good first impression. Um, the example that I always used his dog Bless you. If you go into Facebook in the search dog, bless you. They have a great example of a welcome tab. It’s just a picture of a dog and it says dog, bless you, and that’s it. And then, you know, the implication is like the page,

[00:12:55.04] spk_1:
and they have, well, over 200,000 likes.

[00:13:19.62] spk_3:
Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, strategy like this is important. Ah, welcome, tab. Like it’s important because, you know, when you have people come to your page, you want to be able to convert them into a fan once they arrive. And again, you have less than two seconds. So welcome. Tabs will actually convert fans at a 25% higher rate than the wall or the info tap

[00:13:22.16] spk_1:
Those

[00:13:22.34] spk_3:
other two places that you could send new visitors.

[00:13:45.02] spk_1:
Okay. And that example again is dog. Bless you on on Facebook. All right, so the welcome tab is important. You’ll convert more people then rather than them coming to the wall. And you’re seeing a bunch of posts as the first thing they land on. Is that Is that basically it exactly. Okay. Okay. What

[00:13:45.32] spk_0:
else can we do

[00:13:45.90] spk_1:
that, uh, what other features are? The tabs are there on our on our fan page.

[00:14:15.95] spk_3:
Okay, So they have, you know, they have the wall. The wall is really where all the action is going to be, and I’ll get to that a little bit. But you have the wall, the info tab. You should fill out the basic information. Don’t go crazy about about the information tap. You really want to just include, like, a link to your Web site so that people can click on that and read more about your organization, but you don’t want. You don’t need to provide every single piece of information you can you need to about your organization because people simply don’t read an intro cab that much anyhow,

[00:14:20.63] spk_1:
Okay, they’re

[00:14:21.10] spk_3:
really gonna be interested in what’s happening on your wall.

[00:14:24.00] spk_1:
And if they do want more than you’re given the link to the website or the blogged to get that additional stuff?

[00:15:07.89] spk_3:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So now, as I mentioned before, you know, Facebook, Facebook Page isn’t like a static Web page. Okay, what’s what’s really important about a Facebook page is actually the content that you’re that you’re consistently putting on the page. That’s really what the point is. So I often tell people, you know, don’t go crazy with trying to get you page perfect. Just get it out there and start building up a community, start attracting people start having people like the paid and so forth. So when you first create a page, you literally have no one. There’s no plans at all. Okay, in the same way that welcome Tab will convert a fan. Remember I mentioned you know the welcome Tabal Convert fans?

[00:15:13.83] spk_1:
Yes.

[00:15:22.41] spk_3:
The other thing you need to do is you need to kind of acquire a certain number of fans. Because when you first started paid, you have zero fans, okay? And tony, I know you live in New York City, right?

[00:15:26.05] spk_1:
That’s correct.

[00:15:27.08] spk_3:
OK, so you know, it’s a new restaurant opens up down the street, and you go to that restaurant and nobody’s that air. That tables are empty. You probably gonna be a little hesitant about going into the restaurant. Okay,

[00:15:38.40] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:15:51.77] spk_3:
So in the same way with a facebook page, you want to, um you know, page admin can actually use a function called invite friends where they can invite their personal Facebook friend the page, and you can have a few different administrators on the page. And you could have, say, five people who might be an admin of the page and Macon.

[00:15:59.36] spk_1:
They

[00:15:59.69] spk_3:
each ask their own personal friend network first.

[00:16:02.74] spk_1:
And where do you find Where do you find this, John?

[00:16:06.28] spk_3:
It’s actually on the right hand side of a Facebook page once you created.

[00:16:10.35] spk_1:
Okay,

[00:16:12.11] spk_3:
Once you create linkage is invite friends.

[00:16:39.95] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. By the way, I do have ah restaurant in my neighborhood. It’s a Chinese place. It was empty. I went in and I blew it. The food was awful. It was awful. It was a buffet. I wouldn’t touch 3/4 of what was there. And then the other 25% tasted bad. So Wow, you’re right. See on that that’s happened recently. So your your zombie prognostication powers are are strong today. I’m with John Hayden, and he’s a principal inbound zombie and co author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies. Can we customize tabs, John? Or is it only what Facebook makes available?

[00:17:56.95] spk_3:
Oh, you can definitely, you know, add tabs on to face a Facebook page. You know, the welcome to have I mentioned earlier you can create, you know, like an e mail opt in type of tab. You can create petitions. You can create a lot of different types of functionality and kind of add those on to your to your Facebook page and you can use, you know, if you know HTML and CS at Some listeners are very technical. They’ll know how to do this. They can figure this out. But for those who aren’t really that tech savvy, which is pretty much 99% of the town profit, you know, they might want to investigate some third party applications like there’s a company called Short Stack. And if you just even if you just search for them on Facebook, just search for a short stack. They have a great application to create custom tabs. Another one that I like. His fan page engine, fan page engine. That’s a great one. And then there’s, you know, there’s a bunch of other ones, but those are the ones that I that I consistently use

[00:18:07.04] spk_1:
and recommend. Okay, we’re gonna move Thio using Facebook for fundraising on dhe. There’s an important distinction that you make. Why don’t you explain what that is?

[00:18:13.83] spk_3:
Okay, so, fundraising. There’s a difference between fundraising, the relationship and fundraising, the transaction.

[00:18:22.44] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay, So the transaction is actually collecting money

[00:18:26.27] spk_3:
exactly collecting the money.

[00:18:27.97] spk_1:
And Facebook is not so good at that. Is that is that right?

[00:18:31.68] spk_3:
Facebook is not the best way to collect money, Okay?

[00:18:38.84] spk_1:
But but it’s a great way to build a relationship. Wait. Exactly. Right.

[00:18:59.44] spk_3:
Excellent way to build relationships and nurture those relationships and filed a lot of people after they donate. There was some research done by black body, I think about a month and 1/2 ago that found that 30% of people that donate online they actually donate through email. Okay,

[00:19:00.23] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:19:19.94] spk_3:
6% is about 6% of Facebook and Twitter. Okay, so if you’re a non profit, you might say cheese. Then I shouldn’t even waste my time with Facebook. But the fact is, is that a lot of people, when they donate, they don’t just hear about a non profit for the 31st time and start donating. They need to kind of get to know the organization that relationship matures. And then eventually they might join an email list on the Facebook page and then through that email relationship, Then they donate.

[00:19:33.41] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:19:33.77] spk_3:
Facebook is awesome for acquiring and attracting new donors and developing the relationship with those new fans or connections into, ah donor relationship or volunteer or whatever that relationship is going to eventually mature into.

[00:20:08.12] spk_1:
I pulled listeners again before the show, and one of the other questions was, If you have a Facebook page, do you feel it adequately supports your fundraising? And about 62% said no and the other 40 or 38% so said Not sure. And and nobody said yes that they feel it adequately supports their fundraising. But there was a comment that I think is right on point with what you’re saying. And that comment was our page supports community and promoting the cause, but does not bring in dollars. Is that is that appropriate goal? O. R For Facebook?

[00:20:37.15] spk_3:
Yeah. I mean, it really is about the relationship it’s about, I think, um, I think organizations again, I think there’s kind of an over focus on, like the money, the money, the money,

[00:20:42.92] spk_1:
you

[00:20:50.74] spk_3:
know, But you have to think about it for your perspective, tony, when you find out about a really cool Mount profit, you’re not gonna donate right off the bat, you probably gonna join their email list and maybe go to an event and then eventually you’ll donate once. And then maybe you sign on as a lifer. Eventually. No. So Facebook is the best tool for creating an enhancing relationships with constituents online, because what you can do is you can report outcomes on your Facebook page.

[00:21:16.17] spk_1:
We

[00:21:25.51] spk_3:
just We just opened up a new school in this in Tanzania, and it’s doing really well. Here’s some pictures of our students and here’s here’s what they’re learning. Here’s a picture of the teacher. I mean, you could you know, photos do really well on Facebook. And the more that organization could kind of share photos on the Facebook page about what they’re doing, like literally, what is the impact that they’re having on the world that motivates people to donate?

[00:21:44.04] spk_1:
We have just about a minute and 1/2 left, and we’re sort of getting to this topic, So let’s deal with it directly. How do we attract people to our Facebook page?

[00:22:34.92] spk_3:
Okay, great. That’s an excellent question. So a few different things. I usually encourage organizations to leverage the existing their existing assets so they may have a Facebook page would say, three Facebook fans, but they haven’t email list with 3000 subscribers. They can use that email list to kind of promote their page, um, and then get fans that way. You really have to think about you know, how you’re writing the email and and the reasons why people should actually like the page. You want to create a unique situation on the Facebook page that gives people a reason to actually like it and stay connected. The example that I’ve used before GM might share behind the scenes footage for kind of putting together an exhibit

[00:22:41.54] spk_1:
so

[00:22:41.89] spk_3:
you really can’t get that anywhere else.

[00:22:43.38] spk_1:
Right? Stuff You can only see if you go to the Facebook page.

[00:23:09.08] spk_3:
Exactly. So people need a reason people are reasonable. Facebook users are people, and most people are reasonable. They want a reason to do something. The other thing that I usually encourage people to do is to try the Facebook sponsored stories, which leverages what I would call friends networks on Facebook. So if you have 500 fans on Facebook page by taking out a Facebook spot story, you could actually promote that page to the friends of those 500 people.

[00:23:17.59] spk_1:
Okay, the

[00:23:18.02] spk_3:
average Facebook user has about 130 friends. So I mean, just do the math. You can really create a lot of exposure for the page and then collect a lot of fans that way.

[00:23:29.00] spk_1:
John, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much for being a guest.

[00:23:31.14] spk_3:
Great. Thank you, tony.

[00:23:32.00] spk_1:
My pleasure. John Haydon. Principle of Inbound Zombie and co author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies, where you’ll obviously find a lot more ideas. We’ve only had 25 minutes or so to explore John. A real pleasure. Thank you again.

[00:23:44.77] spk_3:
Thanks.

[00:25:31.90] spk_4:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 16 NTC. That’s the non profit technology conference with the Convention Center in San Jose, California. With me now are John Hayden on Rachel Bure. John Hayden is CEO founder Easy, Everything of inbound zombie. And Rachel Buehler is vice president of Training at pursuant. Before we begin with John and Rachel, you have to do our a swag item of the of the interview, which, you may have noticed is a big, big green glass from wind streams and inside is a charging, charging box so you can charge your charge. Your USB device using and then same time Have your drink from Windstream. Rachel, would you have them swag pile, please take the charger out before you drink it in the foreground. Foreground of our swag pile, if you please. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. All right, Rachel. John, Your topic is how to boost revenue with donor surveys. I don’t think people think of boosting revenue with donor surveys, but let’s dispel that misconception, John. How is it that donor surveys can be used to boost revenue? Well, the idea is that the more you understand your donors, the more they’re going to feel heard, right. And then the more that they’re understood and they feel heard, and they’re connected to the organization, the more they’re gonna support the organization. So don’t donor service air really about understanding people that support your organization? So it’s, uh, part of, ah, multi channel engagement strategy. Yes. Say that Rachel is one of our channels in our multi channel.

[00:25:35.10] spk_5:
Absolutely. And it’s a really great tool for understanding what your donors interest are. So then you could target your appeals based on those interest, and you can talk to your donors about the one program that they care about and not the nine programs they don’t care about.

[00:26:33.04] spk_4:
Okay, I don’t think I don’t think many people are thinking about surveys as a channel. I think they’re thinking about Twitter and Facebook and Instagram as their channels. Not a survey. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t say the survey, Zahra Channel. I would say that surveys are almost like an approach, you know, to serve because you could survey people on Twitter. You could survey people on Facebook. You could survey people with a surveymonkey app. You conserve a people in a number of ways, so it’s more like get feedback from donors, you know, approach to a channel. Yeah, exactly. Approach to a channel to a strategy for an engagement purpose? Exactly. Yes. I couldn’t have said it better. I couldn’t have said it worse. Uh, okay. All right. So let’s dive into this. You have some, uh, I can be examples. I don’t feel like starting with the examples, because then you have two DUIs and don’ts, which we’ll get to, but you have some examples to share of good donor survey practices. Rachel.

[00:27:18.36] spk_5:
Sure. Yeah. We shared a example in oven online donor survey in our session. And it was a short six questions survey that really focused on identifying number one. What a donor’s communication preferences are. How are we doing on communicating with your communicating to little just right too much? What what air? The beneficiary preferences the donor has. Who does it don’t care about? Of all the target populations that the non profit serves, which one interest the donor the most? Some questions about you know what, What programs do they care about the most? Is that just some great basic questions that you can use to ask your donors? And these were important because

[00:27:31.64] spk_4:
I was told that it’s six questions. Yeah, Six West. Okay, because

[00:27:33.21] spk_5:
these are all really important questions because donors give for their reasons, not ours. And the more and one of the points that John and I made in our session is, the more you find out you’re gonna ask when you ask these questions, you’ve got to be prepared to use them to use what you learn and honor your donors preferences that they tell you I wanna hear from you more or I want to hear from you less or I want hear about this book. I’ve got to be prepared to be able to deliver on that so that you’re honoring their preferences. You’ve taken the time to find out, and you’re gonna hear next up, it’s gonna deliver on it.

[00:28:10.80] spk_4:
Okay, so we’ve gotta preserve these responses, not just use the to analyze the survey, and then way

[00:28:13.15] spk_5:
we got to make good on it. And that’s what we want to, Because we want to be talking about what they care about, The more we talk to them about what? Care about where they’re gonna give, the longer they’re going to stay with us,

[00:28:56.34] spk_4:
John. Otherwise, people are gonna feel unheard, tony rooms of serving me. If you’re not gonna honor what I asked you to do exactly. You got another? I can’t example for us, John. I can’t example. I’m only quoting from your text here. So is this text fortified? I persisted. It’s somebody else wrote it, and I doubt that you have No, it turns to blame. Too exuberant. Okay, You got some other examples I can’t hear otherwise. Good, sir. Good survey examples. No,

[00:28:57.59] spk_5:
you know, we should see we shared another video example of using video

[00:29:07.89] spk_4:
radio. Sorry, I was definitely the Sessions I did.

[00:29:41.84] spk_5:
So we shared a great example of using video using video to really take the donor right into the action. Take them right there in the field, allow them to really give them an immersive experience where they can experience the donor’s work and then use that to open up a conversation with them. We we’d love to talk to you. We want to learn more about what inspired you to give. We’d love to talk about doing. We want to do so respectfully. If you’d like to hear from us, just click this button and we’ll set up a visit. So it’s a great way to have your donor raise their hand on their own and find out who wants to have a deeper relationship with you.

[00:29:46.66] spk_4:
Yes, okay. I say a little more about what was with the content of that video.

[00:30:41.54] spk_5:
The video simple that we shared was a great video for Operation Smile. It really took the viewer first hand into the operating room, seeing these surgeries in seeing how correcting his cleft palates surgeries, how how they impact of these families and these communities, and they heard stories from the program officers. They heard stories from donors, doctors from doctors from the founder of the organization. And the founder of the organization has a very respectful called the action at the end where he says, we’d love to hear from you. We want to do so respectfully. We’d love to hear your hopes Would love to hear your wishes way If you’d like for us to call you and set up a visit, just click this button. So it’s a really nice way using the e mail since the donor to a landing page with personalized you were all so they could track How the if the donor watches the video, how long they watch it for and then invite the donor to respond and raise their hand if they’d like to have a visit? So it’s another tool to learn more about a donor’s interest and hopefully set up a visit.

[00:32:41.11] spk_4:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. John, I’ll give you a chance to rebuild. I was just there for my looks and that’s it. You could see what? No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Rachel. I was gonna get do’s and don’ts Thank you. Rachel. Talking. John. You want to script something? Yeah. There you go. That would help. They want to sign, you know, I don’t know. I Okay, let’s move. Yes, do the notes. Don’t you ask them how much they recently gave? Don’t ask them what they gave. And these air? No, nose, Because you should know this information, right? So if you ask them that right away out of the gate, they say, Wow, but what if it’s an anonymous survey or we’re not? We’re not. We don’t like anonymous service. Oh, no, we can’t because we’re supposed be honoring references. We’re not from the gate we’re not talking about No, no, no, no, no. Okay. Yeah. And so were were, again, the purpose of the surveys to understand the donors. So we’re collecting this information, putting into the donor database so that we can follow up with appropriate communication. So if someone says, Hey, I like cats versus dogs for an animal shelter, they’re gonna get communication. That’s about dogs. Here’s where all the dogs that were saving and here’s what you can do to help change the life in a dog. So that’s really the purpose is to try and Taylor the communication and connect the basically, have the donor have a voice in the in the cause. Okay. Reaches getting the pen out of swag. Out chili. That’s okay. I mean, John is squeezing the year clients. Just ball. I’m a little nervous. CM. That’s okay. Got tomato. But I know you’re nervous because you’re doing so badly. I know I’m doing our angel holding. It’s made of which is not squeezing. Selling.

[00:33:28.74] spk_5:
Yeah, I would say. Okay, here’s some more. Always gonna give you some dues. Don’t Don’t use a complicated PhD level language. Don’t use complicated language. Keep it short. Keep it simple. Sixth grade reading level literally. You want to be don’t use Have it be all text Use highly visualized examples that fit in with the organization’s mission. Think think of a buzz feed stock was that you might take on Facebook. Like what? Eighties band? Um, I Duran Duran, Psychedelic furs, the cures all. You just see the images and you know how you’re going to vote. You barely even have to read the text. You wanna make it as easy for them to read. It is easy for them to do is possible.

[00:33:47.44] spk_4:
Okay, Okay. Really great level. All right. Don’t don’t Don’t use don’t send people to a website that looks horrible on a mobile device where they have to zoom in and look at the survey in order to fill it out. Don’t ask people 20 questions. Be very careful what you’re asking. And the number of questions. We know 20 years too long. Twenties way too long. Is there a range

[00:34:04.96] spk_5:
of five or six? If you’re doing a survey to your whole group, just keep it short and simple. Five or six? Yeah, And I would say don’t skimp on this subject line. Put his much thought into this subject line as you do your survey questions so that you get people to open it. We’ll

[00:35:46.34] spk_4:
talk about the subject line of the invitation email. Exactly a lot of thought, and maybe a B tests your subject line. Okay. So easy to do now. We all should be tested. That’s true. Yeah, I say be testing is like it’s like letting your donors vote on subject line that they like the best and then using that to send out to all the other people. It’s basically, you know, having them help you write the email. Yes. Okay. Okay. That was a good one. Good response. Don’t have been the beginning of catching up. Like getting out of prison. You seriously? Seriously, like a parole officer. You’re like the worst parole officer. You’re much better. Much better on Twitter. Facebook. We’ve never met. I know you all this time I’ve been holding you back. Yeah, Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Um horse. That’s great, man. Yeah, I’m a good sport. Absolutely. Beat the crap out of you later on. Before you go. I am enough police. Okay? Trouble with affiliate. I will not. Okay. All right, all right. We’ve exhausted. Don’t. Let’s look, Let’s focus on the positive. Yes, Do. All right. Well, Rachel, you hit some of that. You make it simple. Visual night visual. Um, other dues. Other good practices,

[00:36:03.29] spk_5:
I would say. Try to integrate serving your donors in multiple avenues. You know, you can send them a donor survey. You can ask them questions after they. You know, we talked about having just a comment box. What inspired you to make this gift on your donation form after they get your newsletter after an event after a gala. You know, there there are multiple touch points where you can solicit feedback from your donors. There’s a reason why you I can’t go to old navy that buy something for my twins without me getting a survey about the experience and satisfactions and number one driver of donor loyalty. So think of other ways that you can solicit your Dona Speed back.

[00:37:57.63] spk_4:
Okay? We also talked about donor circles, which is kind of interesting. So when you think surveys, right, you think, Oh, the internet. We gotta use a website and all that stuff. But donor circles kind of old school. You get five or six donors in a room? Very kind of, I guess. You know, committed long term donors may be from different. Maybe maybe a volunteer. Maybe a donor could be a virtual room. It could be, you know, a real in person. You meet them in person and you ask them questions. You know what made you decide to initially support the organization? You know what? Um, you know what? What kind of stories really get you amped up? You know why? Why do you continue to support the organization and just have that open dialogue in the small group. And I think often that can be that dialogue can be the kind of source to create the online survey because then we know Well what you know, when you start with an online survey you might be asking. Well, what do we even start with? But maybe the donor circles a good place to start. Find out what are the key kind of issues, or what? The key preferences and then suss that out throughout the throughout the database. Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Okay. Are there certain groups of donors that air? Uh, better to try to engage in a survey than others? Like sustain er’s versus strictly annual donors or non plant giving donors versus others? Many Any distinctions across types of donors that we’re talking with dealing with. That’s a

[00:38:35.05] spk_5:
great question. I would say Surveys air really great for all your donors, and it’s an opportunity for you to be able to identify who your sustainer prospects are and who playing. Giving prospects are and really move those people from the annual fund up because you cared enough to learn about what they care about and you’re gonna deliver on it. So you’ve got you’ve increased your chances of deepening that relationship and deepening their involvement with the organization by asking them the survey because donors give for their reasons, not ours. And it’s up to us to figure out what they are. I see a lot of fundraisers really trying to read their donors minds and wasting a lot of time. And, you know, I like to say Ask more questions. Read Les Mines. There’s someone It’s totally appropriate to say. How do you like to be invited to make a gift? That’s a very respectful way to find out more about how someone does like to be invited to make a gift, and these are all you don’t have to try to read their minds. You can ask him these questions and learn a lot. You build a relationship in the process

[00:39:11.62] spk_4:
because I could think of to Gary with one music suggested. How do you like to be asked and how often? How often should we be approaching use is two or three times per year appropriate five times one time.

[00:39:23.52] spk_5:
That’s a great example. We actually talked about that, you know, you’re giving donors choice when you do that and that that’s giving them control, and that’s a really big part of them deepening their engagement with you. They won’t have that controlled. We’ve got one study where an organization raised 50% more, 50% more at their year and appeal because they gave those donors. Those choices win. Do you? When do you want to hear from us? Windy? Want us to ask? How often do you want us to ask? They first proved the value of their communications, and that’s something I would caution anyone to first. Do you know if the first time you make a gift, if I ask you how much how often you won’t hear from me? You might say Not very much, because you don’t know me yet, But once I’ve proven the value of the communications and you do know and the donor doesn’t of the organization, it’s really great to ask those questions. That’s a really great point.

[00:40:45.94] spk_4:
Thank you. I scored wanting 16 minutes and 40 seconds. All right, John, You want a chance? A chance of what? Score a point. Okay. Ask me a question about good news. Um no eso. So keep the language simple, very simple. And use their words right. Don’t use any jargon that you might throw around in the, you know, internal meetings use their words and focus a lot on visuals. Actually, visuals drop people in the video is a great example. And actually, that video is very powerful because the organization was smile.

[00:40:48.72] spk_5:
Training was operation Smile.

[00:41:47.77] spk_4:
Operation smile. Yeah, it was great. I mean, when the video is playing during our session, I was kind of had tears in my eyes, you know, So that emotion drives the person, take action, right? So at the end, you know, Hey, tell us what we can do or contact us. We want take the next step with you. That person probably more likely to take that action because of that emotion, right? So I think that’s that’s really key is to try to focus on drawing people in emotionally and an appeal to that, because that’s gonna drive the action. And there’s something like logic. Will logic drives a conclusion. So a logical solicitation appeal logical appeal drives a conclusion. An emotional appeal drives a response. Acting exactly exactly. That’s great. You earn 10 points to that. I love it. That was brilliant. Know what gave you the authority to assess points? There’s a host here. You see the signs? Tony-martignetti fitting units. I’m being put in my space sick. I think I’m being hard

[00:41:53.07] spk_5:
on John. He’d

[00:42:28.00] spk_4:
never come back. Although I did it before. Yeah, people will google me, at least. Who is this guy? John Hayden is having a total failure on this video. You don’t even mention it. Credential here that you’re exactly Facebook marketing for dummies. Proof that I am a dummy proof Facebook marketing for demos Take himself too seriously. Not at all. Um, secrets. Your favorite for profit brands use to build loyalty. Let’s start revealing some some of these four profit secrets.

[00:42:57.30] spk_5:
Well, they ask. I mean, you you can’t hardly buy anything or do anything without being asked about your experience. Right? I mentioned like the survey over the dressing rooms. How was the lighting? And and they you know, the best time to build on a great experience or fix a negative one is in the moment that it happened. And that’s why surveys air so great if you ask people honestly, you get a chance to interact in that experience before that donor becomes a lapsed owner. And that’s why it’s great to be soliciting feedback often,

[00:43:43.97] spk_4:
often, often and immediate. Yeah, depending on the engagement, right, depending on what that engagement was. Okay, that’s a good one. Yeah, and actually, someone has a bad experience, you know, they might weigh one question we asked was Have you ever had a bad haircut? You know, so you’re not gonna tell your hair, and I don’t I don’t know if I have been here Cut or not. Probably not right now. But, you know, if you have a bad haircut, Apparently, according to people I know, if you have a bad haircut, you’re gonna tell all your friends. You know, whatever you do, don’t go to the hairdresser. But you’re not gonna tell the hairdresser, right? So it’s important to listen on, follow up. And but just being heard can often turn things around, and I think they would weigh Refer to the recovery paradox.

[00:43:47.63] spk_5:
Yeah, this is known in the for profit sector. Is the service recovery paradox?

[00:44:07.34] spk_4:
Yep. Service recovery. So it says it says that if you do something really awful, and it’s someone has an awful customer experience. If they feel heard, they are more likely. Thio, you know, support you or they’re gonna be more loyal

[00:44:09.15] spk_5:
then if they never had a complaint in the first place

[00:44:11.39] spk_4:
and you don’t even have to fix the problem, that’s the good thing.

[00:44:13.66] spk_5:
You don’t have to listen to it.

[00:49:30.99] spk_4:
Yeah, really, that’s the That’s why it’s a paradox. Like you would think if someone has negative something negative to say about your organization or your business, you know you have to fix it. We gotta change this. But not necessarily. You have to listen something’s You obviously can’t change, right? But just giving that person the opportunity to say how they feel and be heard. Then they say, Wow! Of all the brands of all the retailers of all the non profit I sport, I feel hurt by these guys now. They’re not doing everything I like, but I really like them so that loyalty increases universes defensive, you know, blaming the victim response. Yeah, service. Yeah, exactly. And again, the bad haircut, right? So if you don’t listen to them, that person’s out there on the street telling their friends. Hey, you know, whatever you do don’t support these guys because they’re kind of, you know, Not only did they do it wrong, but they don’t even want to hear what I have to say. Also, you don’t want that on the street. Your customer donor is taking the time to share their opening up to you. If they didn’t care about you, they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t bother waste in their mind. They waste of time sharing this bad. You off? Yeah. This person cares enough to tell you you’re really hurt. That that will increases their loyalty. That’s okay. Yeah. Yeah, way. Got a couple more minutes together. What else? What else can we do? Have to depart. Rachel. It’s okay. Just you don’t have to do it silently. I’m gonna turn off your mike so you don’t make a lot of you are way too big a lot by Rachel. You’re gonna leave me with lackluster way. All right, let’s finish this up, tony. That’s That’s Rachel Buehler, Vice president of training at pursuant. Thank you, Rachel. Thanks, Rachel. Okay, John. All right. Great. I just said we have a couple of minutes left, so don’t disappoint. me. Good. Okay. What What else? What else is gonna be covered in this topic or or what else was covered? Well, I think, you know, I think talked about the thing that we tried to impress people with a donor survey is not just a survey that you do once a year, once 1/4 but it’s almost like a mindset of creating. Offered every opportunity to follow up with the donor and listen to them. So, for example, we talked about when someone makes a first time donation, right? That’s a big deal. That’s a pretty big deal. Hey. Wow. You You gave us money. Don’t. Why? Did you know what was what made you decide to do that? Someone gives a second time, right? If they give one steps, that’s great. But if they give a second time, it’s almost a miracle. So, Wow, where did we? What are we doing that drove you back to us twice? Reinforce the catch of a miracle? That is because we have a 70% donor attrition problem across non profits in the U. S. Absolutely. We’re losing 70% of our donors each year. Yep. So it’s quite a big deal when somebody gives you that second gift? Yeah, absolutely. And then And then, of course, monthly, right. If someone says, Hey, I gave once or twice here and there. But now I want to commit to a monthly program, right? I want to commit to that. Wow. You did that. Yeah. So obviously these follow these donor. These survey questions are gonna be different for each of those situations. Right on, then. Also, you know, even on a donation form, having like Rachel said, an open box That said, if you want, you know, if you have anything to tell us anything you want to share with us about why you’re supporting us, just type it in right here. Just having this attitude of, um, kind of be, you know, having an ear and being open to listening to people and giving people opportunities to share how they feel, you know, even on, You know, I wrote Facebook marketing for dummies, and I’m always telling people. Yes, there’s Facebook insights. You can look at all the data, but read the comments on the posts. Right. That’s where you get all this really incredible personal stories. People sharing personal stories. What they think about certain issues, how they you and also you learn their language, right? How are they talking about the cause We think we talked about as a communications person at a non profit. You know, sometimes they get caught into jargon or talking about a cause in a certain way of thinking they have to educate donors, but, you know, by reading comments, really listen to donors should kind of understand their language how they’re talking about it, using their words, you know? Okay. Yeah. Cool, John. All right. Was that I think that’s a great rap, All right, Because I was so harsh to you. Yeah. I’ll give you a shout out. You should be following John Hayden on Twitter. He’s at John Hayden because he is very good. Does have a lot of good content. And it’s not only about Facebook E mail, anything. Candy, Five tips. Five. Think you sort of known for five of these seven of these quick tips. Very tactical. There’s that value. But you also go deeper too. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I’ve weekly webinars. I do free webinars. I call it the Humped. A coffee break and it’s just, you know, people show up. Look at Wednesday’s 11 and, you know, have a cup coffee. Learned something and leave. That’s it. So, yeah, it’s all right. I feel like I owed you that. Great. Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Really Do appreciate it. And it was fun. I have very thick skin, So I had a great time. Honestly. Tell your friends about not probably I do. Do I tweet about it? I tweet about it. Yeah, Yeah. John Hayden. He’s He’s everything around Inbound Zombie. They do. Marketing Consulting. Exactly. Thank you. Okay. And you are listening and viewing. Tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 16 NTC the non profit Technology conference

[00:50:50.04] spk_0:
next week. Build your grantmakers relationships. The foundation center panel I hosted back when there was a the foundation center. They merged with guidestar last year to create candid If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com Bye, Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO Our creative producers Claire Meyer off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and the music you would ordinarily here right now is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out like John Hayden and be great