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Allison Fine: Matterness and Churn
Allison Fine returns to continue our discussion of how to show people that they matter to your organization. Plus, what’s the churn and how does it hurt your matterness efforts. Allison is co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit.” We first talked about matterness in January. df
Amy Sample Ward: Net Neutrality
Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of the Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN), explains what net neutrality is; why it’s important to your nonprofit; and how you can have your voice heard on this very timely internet management issue.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and you know that i’m glad you’re with me because i’d be forced to endure acute qatar yl sinusitis if i learned that you had missed today’s show matter-ness and churn allison find returns to continue our discussion of how to show people that they matter to your organization, plus what’s the churn and how does it hurt your matter-ness efforts? Alison is co author of the network to non-profit we first talked about matter-ness in january and net neutrality. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network and ten, explains what net neutrality is why it’s important to your non-profit and how you can have your voice heard on this very timely internet management issue on tony’s take two oh my voice just cracked don’t take too like i’m fourteen years old, show your love and raise more money. We are sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks very grateful for their sponsorship, very pleased also, i’m grateful to them and very pleased as well to welcome back, allison fine, because she’s, the co author of the bestselling the non-profit sorry, the networked non-profit and she’s, author of the award winning momentum igniting social change in the connected age. Allison find blog’s about the intersection of social media and social change at allison fine dot com. She also hosts a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy called social good. You’ll find her on twitter at, eh? Fine, allison find welcome back. Thanks, tony it’s a pleasure. Oh, i’m glad it’s a pleasure to have you back and we wanted to keep talking about matter-ness it was so listeners khun maybe acquaint themselves with the past. It was january tenth when alison on and i last talked about matter-ness and we didn’t really finish it, and i was very disappointed that that you weren’t on for the full hour. So here you are back. What do you what do you just remind us? What? What? What matter-ness is what’s concerning you? Oh, sure, so, tony, we’re in the the beginning of the second decade of the social media revolution, i’ve been writing about it for ten years and the biggest shift that has happened as a result of everybody having access to this amazing tool kit tool set is that people can do only what organizations could do before, right, we can publish. We can dahna treyz money, we can organize large protests, we can help instigate revolutions. We have this amazing power. And yet as we have developed this power organisations haven’t embraced our ability to do this. Now some of my social media brethren will say with great confidence, who needs organizations anyway? The heck with, um and the fact is we do need organizations we need their ability to generate resource is their ability to organized over time and their institutional memory, among other things. So there is this gap between the need of people to matter. We all need that as individuals. We need our voices too. We heard we need to know that we’re that we exist that that were cared for and about, and the inability of organization so many organizations to do that and that’s where i came up with this word matter-ness it is that face that needs to be filled with good stuff. When we last talked about it, you left us with several excellent ideas and but one of them i wanted to pick up on was that we don’t have to look perfect that non-profits don’t have to look perfect and tangential to that was be willing to go out to your community and ask them for help, right and way beyond just money help, exactly. So we had gotten ourselves boxed into a place, you know, in the second half of the last century, tony, that organisations, and therefore the people inside of them need to be not only buttoned up but buttoned up perfection and it’s not possible one thing it never was possible, but certainly now that we have social media and we can the inside of organizations much more than we could before and anything that happens is instantly bread and scaled by all of the connections. The idea that we would want to continue to pretend that inside of our walls we can solve all of our problems is an exhausting way to work and it’s ironic because we’re sitting amidst an enormous, resource rich ecosystem. They called him big, small town that have that air filled with people of goodwill who are waiting to be asked to help and yet the default setting of so many organizations and the people lead them is that we need to present the world with our ten point three years strategic plan and ask people for money over and over again and that’s. Just a ah, really unfortunate and sad way to work when there’s so much other creative help out there for people it’s the difference between working from the inside out and looking from the outside in that’s just it had. How do you experience your work? Right? Is your work all about what you need internally or is about what people feel and know and can contribute from the outside in? How do we get it? How do we get to the outside? Wait outside ourselves in our office? Yeah. Uh, so, like any good ten step plan, their first has to be recognition. That there’s a problem. We’re helping with that right now. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. So, uh, the problem begins with a personal set of assumptions that leaders have. Everybody comes to their work, tony, with this invisible set of prescribed default settings about how the world works. And it was, you know, in the in the waters in the millions last century to assume that the world out there was a dangerous place filled with ah wacka doodles and jobs and wing nuts. And all of those folks who just mean you harm. And when you put place yourself in an ecosystem, that’s just filled with all sorts of threats like that very, very difficult to unlock the doors and come on out into the sunshine and play with other people. So it really needs to begin with conversations internally about what are the assumptions that we have about the world about our place in the world? Do we believe that people a matter out there do we want to trust their judgment? Do we want to ask for help? I have a whole, you know, set of questions that people need to start to ask themselves and the best way to do it because it’s very easy, tony, if i asked you to, people matter and you being a person of good will would naturally say yes, of course people matter you’re right, then if i pushed you a little further and said, ok, do they matter if they come onto your facebook page? And criticize you in a way that feels uncomfortable or unfair. Well, now we’re getting into a, you know, a different kind of place, right up until what point do people matter and what happens when it makes us uncomfortable? Right? So we really need to push ourselves through a series of scenarios of conversations about, uh, what our relationship with the world means in practice, not just in theory, and also then how do we show our communities that they matter to us? Yeah, i find that just fascinating that so much time and energy is spent by organizations showcasing what they do and why they should matter to other people. And so little energy is spent in conversation with people out there. On what do you know why they matter? So here’s here’s a fun example? Tony, how many times have you walked into a restaurant and you see the photos up of employees of the month? Right? Right. How many times have you walked into a similar kind of business and seen customers of the month? Uh, right, we don’t we don’t really celebrate those people out there and show them that they matter to us, that’s. Right, how bout a non-profit coming onto their facebook page, and instead of talking about how much you know, money they raised on their last campaign and how great they are? What if they told the story of one donor who gave twenty five dollars, and why this cause matters to her? Yes, a donor of a modest level donor in-kind twenty five dollars, right, who clearly has been moved by something here, right, her feelings, her matter-ness i need to be shown to matter to the organization. We have to go away for a couple minutes. Of course, alice is going to stay with us, and we’re going to keep talking about matter-ness we’ll move to the churn, and i’m going to ask her to tell her. Good post office story, hang in there. I didn’t even think that shooting, getting, thinking things, you’re listening to the talking alternative network you get in. E-giving. Good this’s. The same way we’re hosting part of my french new york city, guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back. French is coming language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p. M. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent we’ve got lots of live listener love love sending live listener love to hamburg, pennsylvania, new york, new york no that’s cool new york, new york. Welcome arco, idaho. Welcome, marco. My voice cracked again. Tampa, florida, new bern, north carolina, atlanta, georgia live listener love to all of you let’s go abroad. Briefly. Teo kyoto, tokyo and osaka, japan konnichiwa live listen love to the asian peninsula there feels good to be back in the studio. It’s been it’s been a few weeks. We had a bunch of pre recorded shows i love doing alive. Listen, love and of course, the podcast pleasantries for everybody lift listening on the time shift you nine thousand plus allison tell you little post office story you’re a little run in with your mailbox or somebody had a run in with your somebody else had a run in with your mailbox ongoing poor mailbox fell off its post a couple of weeks ago. Got you thinking about the post office? Yeah. Fell off sametz. You know, i didn’t really think much about it. I ordered a new one, and it came. I didn’t like it, so i sent it back, and and that was kind of getting delivered, you know, i figured tony it’s just bills and junk mail, right things that really brought but my husband, who was traveling during that time, he really likes his mail, so he came home and and quickly realised that our mail had stopped being delivered. So he went down to our post office, and, uh, he went up to the counter and said, you know, are our male has stopped being delivered into, though you yes, you need to talk to the postmaster. Zoho every post office has don’t you are elevated to the postmaster, you’re in trouble, but you can’t be good. Yeah, so postmaster comes out and she asked my husband, what is, you know, what is interesting is and he says they’re male stopped and she said, oh, yes, that’s right? I stopped the mail and yes, why? And she said, because delivering your mail is a safety hazard, and this is, you know, it’s, not like the mailman had to get out the car, he didn’t have to walk up anything if you just bend down a little bit. Put it in the box, your mail boxes on the floor is on the ground now, right on the ground platform, though it’s not, you know what a tree. And so he said, well, how, exactly is a safety hazard? And she said, well, bending down is a safety hazard, and it won’t be delivered again until we got a new mailbox. And so my husband said, well, why didn’t you tell us? Yeah, and she said, well, i don’t have your telephone number to find a little ironic, since they continue to deliver the phonebook, right? Yes, and you’re listed you listed in the phone, my list, okay? And then he said, well, so why couldn’t you at least put a note in the mailbox that you stopped delivering the mail? Because it’s. Yeah. Now listen, that wasn’t quite the end of it in terms of matter-ness clearly, anybody who most people who engage with the post office feel a sense of not mattering and that’s just but, you know, cliff, we’ve just come to expect mediocrity from the post, yeah, yes, mediocrity and and just a lack of caring altogether. But here’s here’s what? I think the story actually gets a little bit interesting because i posted the story my block and then on twitter and ah, ah, person on twitter came back to me and said, well, have you ever shown your mail carrier that he matters to you and then maybe stop in my tracks? And i thought, no, you’re right, i am too chief at christmas time. It’s uh, it’s just a bad habit. I know, and i did not apologize to the mail carrier when the bucks first dropped off, right? It didn’t occur to me that this could be inconvenient for him in some way, andi, i was rude and and it hadn’t really hadn’t occurred to me, tony, of how much matter-ness goes round around with people who really isn’t a one way street, right? That’s. Outstanding. Yeah. Yeah. Well, have you had a little conversation with your mail carrier? I did. I came out after this twitter exchange. I came out and i flagged him down and he looked very wary. I think he thought i was going to yell at him about the whole faster. And you probably heard from his post master. Yeah. Ah, and, you know, he’s, a very large man in this little truck, and we haven’t met in person, tony, but i’m a very small person, and i thought, well, why would you be afraid of me? But i went down and flag him down and said, i really wanted to apologize for the inconvenience we caused. I hadn’t thought about it, and i wish i had thought about it more and he was absolutely startled and said, please, please it’s fine, i’m you know, i’m sorry got to that level. Uh, and and we then had a very pleasant conversation, but his surprise that my willingness to step out and talk to him about it was very moving. Yeah, he probably was expecting a confrontation and certainly not an apology, but so matter-ness brought the two of you. Together on dh. Now, you each appreciate each other’s sensitivities to this. Yeah, i also need to tip them better at christmas time. Okay, well, interest. Okay, introspection is good. All right, all right. Let’s. Say it’s. A touching story. What about the churn, alice? You’ve been thinking about the churn. What? What? What’s that. So, tony, look, the turn is the bane of everybody who works right. It is the stuff of all of those dilbert cartoons, it’s. All of that business that goes into getting work done. It’s all the process. All the staff meeting all of the memos, all of the e mails. Uh, and with social media, it’s been extended, you know, outside of the office to every waking moment of the day. And the problem with the churn is that it, um, energized by a couple of really bad things, uh, it’s energized by the risk aversion of organizations right to the the volume of the turn gets turned up when organizations become so nervous about something going wrong somewhere. So that’s, where you end up in the meetings where people are playing devil’s advocate and those never ending conversations about what happens if somebody says this and what happens if, you know, we deliver late and what happens and what happened and what happens is that just takes up an enormous amount of time and energy. The second thing that energizes the journey, the churn is the unwillingness of managers and leaders latto let staff people do what they’re hired to dio it costs upwards of twenty thousand dollars, tony for a typical organization toe hyre a typical manager all of the time and direct expenses of, you know, advertising and interviewing and and training somebody. And yet, as you well know, almost the first thing or so many organizations do when somebody hired is to say, don’t use your brain, just follow our rules, right? Here’s the plan and here’s the formula and go step by step, and even when they do have people working by formula, so many managers and leaders feel a need to watch people work so much time on not just supervising, but literally watching where and when people were, and that just creates an enormous bureaucracy and bureaucracy is the turns best friend? They’re b f f f forever, chernin, bureaucracy and it’s what keeps organizations hold inside? Right, if it makes us inside out and that the whole effort becomes obsessed with internal process and therefore antithetical to matter-ness antithetical to matter-ness antithetical to being out there, talking to people, to building relationships with people, to asking for help with people asking me that a problem solved with you. I have had a heck of a time, johnny. I’ve been looking for an organization that went out to their community on facebook, on twitter, on their block, wherever and said we have a real problem, not a window dressing problems like you know what to wear to the gala next saturday night, a real problem. Can you help us solve it? Because the idea of taking problems out publicly is just too frightening for people and that’s a real shame because there’s so many people out there, somebody smart people who want to help it keeps us from it keeps us from looking at an abundance perspective, it’s, and keeps us in that scarcity mentality and that’s related to the risk aversion and the and the bureau bureaucracy and the internal the intern this internal turn. Yeah, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, right that you look at the world is a scary place, you know it, it creates a need to self protect self protection creates a need to be overly careful. Um, which then creates the need to to try to control everything internally, and that is just an enormously self defeating way of working. Ah, and yet, you know, we see organizations that are able tto let their people go the container store does a great job of hiring smart people and training them and then letting them do their jobs well, feeling a need to look over their shoulder every minute of the day. Sametz have you found examples of that in our non-profit community? Not so much now you mentioned that you hadn’t seen examples of non-profits going out to their community looking for help, but in terms of this training and then delegation, so there are i don’t want to be teo slip there certainly, organizations like the national wildlife defense that trains their focus to be on twitter and has nearly a hundred staff people out there speaking every day they get some guidance, but they don’t have to approve tweet, you know they trust them to be out in public speaking about the work and who best to be your ambassador than your staff. People who know, you know, what’s happening. So their organizations like that, like the humane society increasingly great cross mom’s rising, which does a beautiful job of letting their people out onto social media channels to be in conversation with their communities on a distributed basis, not just social media manager that’s exactly right? So it was for the organization to do the best job with social media. Tony, it is not centralized with the manager, but they have is a manager who’s building the capacity throughout the organization for everybody to be on on channels in talking, right? It’s a distributed media you can’t undistributed internally. And and if you’re willing to look from the outside in you make the point that this helps us tio access mohr of that sharing capital it’s out there? Uh, that’s just right, you know. So one of the things that you want to test with your organization is what do you look like from the outside in? So for instance, if you were a stranger, coming to your website would be clear hyre who asked what questions? Too, right? Are their faces that go with names? Are they accessible to you? Because otherwise it can feel like a great big fortress very hard to get in? Uh, and and the other thing is that as we’ve said before, there are a whole bunch of different kinds of capital out there, you know, certainly money, but, uh, intelligence and empathy and, um, all sorts of goods that people can donate, ah, and it’s a question of getting out there in conversation with people once you know what you need, you can’t just go out there, you know dahna with no, no thought in your head about what you need, but you have to go out, you have to ask it and there’s a lot of help out there say something more about empathy. Capital? Yeah, yeah, i don’t want to put you in jug in jail years rade organization called benevolent run by making cashner in chicago and rake it making is a social worker by training and she thought one of the worst things that happened in our society with the growing income gap is that there is no interactions between the haves and the have nots. We don’t bump into people at church or on the subway, you know, in public places the way we used to a couple, you know, just two generations ago, so megan built the website benevolent as an opportunity for people who are trying to get traction out there in this economy, tell their story and asked for just a little bit of help. She’s doing this in partnership with non-profit organizations who can, you know, help folks down and out a bit to tell their own stories. Uh, but it’s phenomenally successful and tony it’s it’s remarkable how difficult it can be to try to get situated and get some traction with your first job, right? So things i had never thought about that megan told me about was, for instance, a new waiter, each his own clothes, you know, his own black shirt, black pants, black shoes get started, and that may not seem daunting to a lot of us, but it’s enormously daunting to other people, or somebody could finally get their first department and have nothing to put in, innit? Or another thing is that dental health is an enormous problem for low income people and if you don’t have dentures, you’re not going to hired by anybody. Ah, and it’s just problems that most of us still think about, and when we hear these stories, we can’t help it the empathetic and and want to help. Megan has given us an amazing mechanism for doing that. And what does the sight again benevolent dot or ge? Excellent. We have a couple of minutes left, and i always enjoy our conversations. I’m so glad you’re back, yeah, share share what it is that you love about the thinking you’re able to do and the work that you do. So am i, you know, next to lou garret, tony, i’m just the luckiest gal around. I get to think about how people can help one another, and one of the things that i love most about where we are collectively right now is that we have so many different ways for people to express kindness and generosity. I’m not suggesting that social media make people kinder or more generous, although i do know that the reverse that the assumption a lot of people have that social media is escalating, bullying and mean spiritedness is simply not true people. Are what they are, wherever they are. But the difference now is that we can see it, right. So when it’s something unfortunate or mean that happens online, you know, which would have just been a private thing before hedley, we all have to see it. But the flip side is, you know, if if all the social media channels were filled with all of that yucky stuff, tony, you and i wouldn’t be there were there because the overwhelming number of right engagements and communications are positive. And when you see day after day somebody just saying to somebody else thattaboy, right, keep going. I know it’s been hard or sharing a lovely, warm hearted story. There was that story last year of the fella on the subway who let a young man sleep on his shoulder and it just went viral. This picture of ah, lovely man with a stranger sleeping on his shoulder. And it was just evidence to all of us that that kind of loving kind of active, random, loving kindness exists all around us. Yeah, and i am so fortunate to be able to, um, observe those things and chronicle them and share them. And make people aware and recognize the fact that we are living in an amazing time filled with abundance, and there are lots of opportunities to do things that were good at doing, which is taken care of one another, and by doing that it makes you feel great. We have to leave it there. The luga rig of the intersection of social media and social change, you’ll find her thoughts at allison fine dot com you’ll find her on twitter at a fine, so glad you’re back. Allison, what a pleasure. Thank you very, very much. My pleasure, tony. Anytime. Thank you. You know about generosity, siri’s, because they sponsor non-profit radio and they helped me to bring outstanding guests like alison fine and like amy sample ward coming up generosity siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks if you are thinking about including a runner, walk in your fund-raising i’d be grateful if you would check out generosity siri’s just see what they’re about and see whether you can work with them, see if it makes sense for youto be one of their charity partners they are at well, you know, i always prefer the phone and s o the person to speak to is dave lynn who’s, the ceo, and they are at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven they are, of course, also on the web you, khun certainly check them out at generosity siri’s dot com either way, if you’re thinking about a run or a walk in your fund-raising i’d be grateful if you would listen to what devlin has to say and see whether it makes sense for you to work with generosity. Siri’s, show your love and raise more money. That is my video blog’s this week. I want to see more love in the fund-raising business it’s that simple, and i don’t mean that you love working with people. I mean, showing your love to your communities and there are really very simple ways that you can do that in the social networks and email and then just every day interactions, everyday things. I would like to see more love in the fund-raising business and that’s going to be my message on monday. I’m speaking to the gift planning council of new jersey opening up their their conference monday morning, and my message is going to be show your love and raise more money there’s a video about that on my blogged, which is tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, thirtieth of may twenty second show of the year. I’m very pleased that amy sample ward is with me back back with me with me back. What is that? She’s, a ceo of non-profit technology network and ten our most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement her block is amy sample, war dot org’s and she’s at amy rs ward on twitter. Of course we know that the r stands for money. Welcome back, amy rene sample ward hi, tony. How are you? I’m doing okay. I’ve been traveling a lot, but i am actually in portland. In my office. In my chair. Your own phone today? Very comfortable. Yes. I’ve seen you checking in. I think you were in warsaw, poland. I know you’re in. Poland was at warsaw? Yes, in warsaw. Okay, i know. I think i think my four square account, which if people are listening and don’t know what four square is just a kind of place based checkin tool. So you can share with your friends where you are. I’m pretty sure that it is on ly airports now i’m getting in that to make sure, you know, because actually i’ll i’ll check in in an airport and and it’s very regular that someone says, oh, i’m in this city, you know, are you going to the same conference or can we meet up? So i get enough, enough positive reinforcement to keep checking in at airports that i continue to do it that’s outstanding and have you actually met people that have have hit you on foursquare? Oh, yeah, i mean, i’ve even you know, i’ve even had friends that are based somewhere else, and they see that i check in at an airport in fourth grade, they say, hey, i’m in this airport with a five hour lay over let’s get lunch and we d’oh it’s terrific, but but you also you know, it shows you other folks who are are currently checked in there, you know, that you may may know or may want to meet up with so definitely that that kind of more new new people to meet sequence has happened as well, yeah. I have a lot of fun with four square i like to drop friends notes occasionally, too, when i see them check in. Yes, i have. I have been the recipient of many of your notes. I always like it. I know. Someone’s paying attention. Thank you. Ok. I have fun with it. You know, i’m amusing myself if no one else s o ah, atleast you remember so, yeah, i’m glad i’m glad i’ve hit you with a couple notes. Yeah. It’s fun. Well, the problem for me often, if if someone comments on i don’t see it right away. Well, i checked it in an airport. I’m probably on a plane, you know, shortly after i checked in. So now i don’t have internet access on my phone and i missed i missed the comments. Sometimes i’m too slow, too slow to reply. Ok, well, i’m never looking necessarily for a reply. I’m just it’s just, you know, working teo people live. Yeah, yeah. And it’s just it’s a fun spot. You know, people don’t really expect too many comments that you get you get, like once in a while, but you don’t really expect to make comments. So being a little bit of an anarchist, i’d like to comment on foursquare from time to time. Good, keep it up. Thank you. Um, net neutrality we are we’re facing the possibility the real possibility of sort of a, uh, privileged class and the internet, aren’t we right? So buy-in in knowing that we were going to talk about this today, i was trying to think, ok, do we just kind of lay out some history? You know, do we really try and make a call for people to take action? And i and i think we can you know, i’m happy to share a little bit of history now, and we can talk about how people can take action based on what they feel about the issues, but i also i think if you’re up for it, maybe we could just spend a couple minutes after we share some of the background for listeners and just have a conversation and encourage folks if you are listening live to go ahead and tweet in some of your thoughts or or your reactions, because i think it’s i think it’s an important issue, but i also think it, you know it’s not a black and white issue it it has so many different angles and perspective and, you know, we’re just two people, so we’re probably not going to cover every single one of those, you know, every one of those perspectives, so just a quick shout out if you are listening, live tweet in some of your thoughts or if your organization has actually made a statement about some of what’s happening with the fcc right now go ahead and tweet out those links to your organization’s statements. It would be great to collect those and see how organizations feel standing yes, let’s, please use the hashtag non-profit radio. Andi, we’ll see what we get. All right, okay, so let’s spend not too much time on the history, but because i do want to focus on where we are now and different proposals that are out there. But but let’s define what net neutrality is right. So this issue net neutrality, of course, has longer definitions, but really, in the most simplest terms, net neutrality is the concept that all traffic on the internet be treated equally, regardless of what kind of, you know content it is or you know what you’re accessing, and some of that comes from historical issues around a service on internet service provider and i s p, you know, wanting to slow down service sabat competitors so one i p not wanting, you know, netflix, tio have really great service for their users because they don’t want their users may be using that that competitors services. So so that’s what? I mean, when i’m saying, you know, all all traffic be treated equally, that you’re really an internet service provider, you’re not, eh, moderator, moderator of that content, does that make sense? It does, and and there are proposals out there now that will put this that concept of net neutrality, that everyone is equal on the internet, which i think we all take for granted right now, but there are proposals out there that would put that, um, that neutrality at risk, exactly. So so back get back in. Earlier in may, um, the fcc released that it would entertain eso so at least discuss and here feedback on the proposal, too introduce to two different lanes of traffic essentially so a fast lane in the slow lane, and that would mean cos or, you know, people willing to pay a higher price for that faster service would essentially have a very different internet, you know, then then people that could not pay or would not pay that hyre price and just for a bit of contacts, we were really glad to see some of intends a long time technology partners and, you know, sponsors of the conference and thunders of some of our work, like google and microsoft and twitter very publicly saying they don’t support that. So i throw that out there, justus context, because i think a lot of people think, oh, well, those big companies can pay for it, and i’ll share it with everyone. But even those big companies recognize that just because some people or some companies could pay for a faster lane that’s not that’s, not keeping with an open web, and wouldn’t this filter down to us as users, whether where organizations or individuals that we would pay mohr and have i have a faster lane on the internet? Yeah, or or we couldn’t pay more maybe, you know, as as individuals or especially non-profit organization. So i posted on posted on the antenna block. Of course, but i also posted on lincoln, and i just was asking for people to share some of their feedback or what this could potentially mean to them. And i have just a couple really short, quote, if that’s okay, i wanted to highlight a couple other people’s perspective on this. Yeah, i i’d like to know what this means for non-profits is as content as a cz content producers and also his users of the internet accessing other content, right? Well and then there’s that third piece, right, which is us trying to provide services often times to people who, you know, are at risk for many different things, including for not being able to pay for faster internet, right, but there’s their kind of three perspectives? They’re so delusional. Karen graham who’s that long time and ten member from map for non-profits up in minnesota, she she shared this quote with more and more non-profits virtual izing their infrastructure and more data management happening in software is a service. The web is everything. Everything is in all caps slow lane means lower staff productivity’s i fear a disproportionate effect on the organizations that are doing the world’s. Most important work that really touches on what you shared, tony, you know, staff trying to do work on a slower lane of the internet go on, then lorry full past shared, she said. My two cents internet access is becoming like a utility sort of internet access khun give low income or otherwise disadvantage folks an avenue to greater opportunities, but not if we start making high speed internet access something available only to those who can pay so that really touches on that last piece. You know, those end users that non-profits air trying to serve, if if they don’t have, you know, a very good internet access and we as an organization don’t either the probability that we can get good content to those people that need it is just so much more unlikely. And you know that it just reinforces for me the divide that we that we’re facing and alison mentioned it, um, you know, this this income divide that we have and now you know, there now there’s the potential of dividing the the internet access along along income long income lines. It’s really bothersome know anything else you want to share from the inten block any other quotes? I can certainly no, no that’s, no, no. That’s what? I thought a couple would be a good start. Yeah, you raise and you bring in the interest of very interesting point to the people we’re trying to serve. So many of them are accessing our services through the web. I mean, and ten is a perfect example for god’s sake, you’re the non-profit technology network if you’re if you’re if you’re ten thousand or so members can’t mike, my voice cracked again, i’m very sentimental today. I’m very moved by every thing today that’s the third time, i would like a fourteen year old if you’re if you’re ten thousand members can’t access at a good speed all the content that you have available to them webinars, or whether they’re just reading bloggers something that’s going to hurt me, really, you know, as the web is moving to this very rich media centric photos and videos, and and even just, you know, kind of really time content updates if and ten isn’t able teo participate in that fast lane and neither are the non-profits were serving, you know, the idea that we could be delivering really quality, you know, video training, i don’t know that that would no work quite as well anymore, and at the same time we’re maybe an organisation, because we’re so focused on technology that could actually, you know, broker a relationship with technology providers and get ourselves somehow, you know, through through, ah trade, partnership or whatever, you know, into that fast line. But that doesn’t mean that we’re still able to connect with all those other organizations who aren’t there. So even if there’s, you know other ways around some of these pieces, i don’t know that there, you know, a sustainable work arounds are reliable as an alternative. Okay, we got to go out for a couple minutes, we’ll come back, then you and i’ll talk about what what to do about this, i think, was laid it out pretty well and how important it is to stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lorts have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m ken berger from charity navigator. That’s ken berger, ceo of charity navigator. He’s. Too modest when he does that, does that recordings for us? Yeah. We’re just talking at the break. Sam and i about how that this all could affect non-profit radio. I mean, yeah. What were you saying? Yeah, well, i’m a content producer. You know, sam is concerned because he’s he’s unconference content producers well, this happens to be the best show that he produces, but or are but there’s a few others like it, doesn’t others now there’s sometimes good, but no it’s it’s. Well, we’re just concerned about would we even would we fit in the class of people that can afford the faster lane? I don’t know, i don’t know what those numbers are gonna look like. And i hope it never comes to that where i have to look at a pricing chart and figure out whether i’m on the i’m on the fast lane side or the can’t afford the fast lane side, especially because, you know, i think the piece that’s important to remember here, and i and i have definitely seen comments in certain, you know, block post comment threads and things like that that this isn’t this isn’t entirely a conversation about the infrastructure, you know, of course people are going toe bring up, you know, that they live in a city with a certain access and then there’s, you know, all that talk of google fiber coming to cities and all those, you know, various infrastructure conversations, this is really not about infrastructure, this is about, you know, going back to that original definition where we’re saying they could have, you know, keeping keeping traffic at as, ah equally treated thing, they could be shifting the content that is getting paid for a cross across your channels, so not just not just oh, well, we live in a city that doesn’t have fiber or or wii d’oh it’s not just the infrastructure that we’re talking about here. We’re really talking about those internet service providers piece being able to decide who’s getting the fastest tickets on their network, and to me, this is also it’s tze political itt’s, a conversation about class, division, class, division, and we see it in so many other realms of our on our society. Aziz alison was talking about, you know, we don’t we don’t see each other. Across the class is the way we used to in places like churches and stores anymore, and, you know, it could it could be here in the internet. Okay, yeah, i mean, especially as you look at the pieces, you know, there’s a there’s there’s a tons of data out there provided by the platforms themselves about, you know, the age, demographics, the race and ethnic breakdowns of people on facebook or on twitter, you know, all those pieces that you and i have even talked about on the show on the show before. And so if you think about, you know, one of those platforms that maybe predominantly has on audience of a certain geographic area or ethnic background and they are not able to pay, but you know, they’re they’re still on the same, you know, i s p then people are just naturally never going to go to that sight again, never going to go to that, you know, social network again because there’s this other one that loads really quickly but it’s, just not for them, you know, it’s it’s, not where maybe their peers are, so i think that just trying to illustrate that nuance. It isn’t just everything on the web that you’re experiencing it. It could be that kind of site. Specific accessory specials place to you? Yes. Okay. What are we going to do about this? A cz individuals as organizations i know you have ways we can express our opinions. Yeah. I mean, i think part of it is is trying tow have some conversations with your staff or or with your friends because it is, you know, we’ve almost in many places in the u s started taking the internet is just a thing that oughta magically appears for us. You know, whenever we open our computer, turn on our smartphone on go, i think trying to have a conversation about how interval it is to your work to your life so that you can start to appreciate it. But also you can then articulate that back to the fcc. So at this point, they have opened it up for public comments, and they’re really simple ways to send. Send your comments in and the one piece i wantto wantto share. The caveat to this is sharing your story, saying this is how much an open web means to me. Or or this is how a web that is no longer open would impact my organization being able to meet our mission or my organization, you know, serving this community. That is not, you know, advocacy that’s going against all of your, you know, lobbying percentage is a nonprofit organization. You telling a story you informing the world really about how important and open web is to your daily work is not something that anyone is banned from doing by any kind of tax status or organizational, you know, level. So i i really do encourage people tio don’t think that your comments are not helpful in this and that your comments are not something that you know you can share because you are a non profit organization. Excellent on brovey reminder that you really can and should be doing this. Yes, you can. It’s. Just not going to tell you what to say. But if you just go to dear fcc dot org’s so d e a r fcc dot org ff has created a very simple little letter format so you could just drop in your ideas. And really again, the point here is not just that you as a person, you know, i don’t like this, or maybe you do, but as an organization is an open web critical to you, meaning your mission, i think that the most helpful and illuminating story that non-profit staff can share because, you know, i think so often conversations about net neutrality or other, you know, larger internet issues come down to those big companies and then all of us tiny little users, you know, at the other end, and we forget that they’re all these organizations relying on on the internet to do their job. I want teo reinforce something that you said about being concerned about this. Whether you’re posting your organizational story is political activity and whether it’s banned by your your five or one c three status, jean takagi and i are going to be on next week talking about political activity and what’s permissible, and this is certainly outside, you know that so every i’m agreeing with what you said, but if listeners want even more detail on what is permissible political activity, gene and i are going to be talking about it next week. Um, i think it’s a very common question, i’m glad. You guys, you and jean are goingto spend time talking about it. We get that all the time from organizations, just what can we say or just what can we do? But as you said, this is outside of that. This is you educating the fcc and anyone else that will listen about the tools you need to do your job. We have a question on twitter is, is there a petition maybe that you’re aware of amy or no, i’m not aware necessarily of any petitions that’s because the fcc is processed for public comments is kind of a specific process that it’s not really, like just sharing a petition. I’m sure that there are some, but i would recommend the deer fcc dot orig letter because they’re sending those as public records as comments against the ruling. Okay, got a d a r f, c, c dot org dot org’s yeah, i’ll tweet it right now. Okay, thank you. And anything else you’re recommending that we do are is is there anything on the intense? I mean, the last the last piece there is, you know, having those conversations with your dafs so that you can start to understand and recognize potential impact from this thie effects that it that it could have on the organization, really going online and sharing your story it dear sec, dot or ge, and then making sure whenever you’re talking to your community that you start educating them, too, and not like freaking anyone out, are you or, you know, trying tio tell them that anything has been decided but really encouraged them? Just as i’ve just encouraged you is you and your team to talk about internet access to think of it more than just something that kind of got set up when you moved into your apartment? Are you know where you got with your phone, but really think of it as this access point to education, to information so many public services, and they can also share share their story about what it would mean to them as a user of non-profit services as a citizen in the us, whatever that may be. All of those perspectives are really critical right now. Agree critical is exactly the word i was going to use to wrap up. Thank you. Excellent, excellent topic. Thank you very much, amy. Yeah, course you’ll find her on twitter at amy rs ward and her sight is amy sample, ward dot or ge she’s, also the ceo of and ten the non-profit technology network and ten dot org’s, thank you very much. Yep. Next week, labor attorney tom was self rum new york on employees versus contractors and the laws around volunteers and interns in your office. Very interesting, and we will keep it interesting, and jean takagi are legal contributor. As you heard me say, we’re going to talk about the bright lines project, which is a movement to have greater clarity on political activity rules affecting non-profits we’ll talk all about that next week. Bicoastal lawyers, jargon jail sentences are possible, i won’t say imminent, but very possible. If you missed any part of today’s show, please find it on tony martignetti dot com remember also we are sponsored by generosity, siri’s at generosity siri’s dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules are music this music right here is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. They didn’t think that shooting. Good ending thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving e-giving are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m we’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking. Dahna hyre