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Amy Sample Ward

Nonprofit Radio, April 19, 2013: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward, Part Deux

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward, Part Deux

She’s our social media contributor and her new book is “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” We pick up where we left off on March 15, to talk about your fundraising plan: scheduling; testing; staffing; budgeting; and tips for your website campaign. Amy’s dad Tim joins in to share what it’s like raising a social media scientist.

 
 


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Zoho welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host feeling a little raw today little tender it’s friday, april nineteenth, and with what happened on monday in boston and then on early wednesday in west texas, the explosion in a fertilizer factory, of course, monday was the marathon bombing and now today, all kinds of craziness in boston, and maybe now, even on a train between boston and new york, we’re not really certain least that’s the latest i’ve heard as of, uh, one o’clock eastern, so yeah, i was goingto ah, i was going to implore you, teo to goto, itunes and ratan review the show, but that just doesn’t seem like it’s. Ah, really has a place today. We’ll deal with that another time. Just give your thoughts. Teo to boston and and watertown, massachusetts. Also a lot of stuff going on was bullets and explosions over in the overnight onda also thinking about west texas? I do hope you’re with me last week because i’d suffer it would hurt if it came to my ken that you had missed followship with alison fine she’s the co author of the network to non-profit and has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers while still keeping goals in sight she shared her thoughts on followship and social media boundaries are legal contributor jean takagi from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco suggested rules for your use of social media it can’t be a free for all for your employees and volunteers and jean had helped to keep you out of trouble this week a conversation with amy sample ward part do she’s our social media contributor and her new book is social change anytime everywhere we pick up where we left off on march fifteenth to talk about your fund-raising plans scheduling testing staffing budgeting and some tips for your website campaign and i’ll be chatting with amy’s dad also between, uh, well, between the half. Ours uh, roughly thirty two minutes into the our tony’s take two my block this week is keep your marketing simple. I’m always pleased to welcome amy sample ward to the studio she’s membership director at non-profit technology network and ten, as i said, her most recent co authored book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement the forward is by two time guest of this show, craig mark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects no, sorry work that in there that has been on the show twice, her blogged is amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s at amy r s ward on twitter welcome back, kayman sample work. Thank you for having me back. It’s. Always a pleasure. Um, i guess my one of my first my first question is on the cover of this book the word’s, any time and everywhere. I’m showing her the cover now to remind her of the are separated. But they are not hyphenated. Why? Why aren’t they hyphenated the way proper english would be any hyphen time? Because they’re in different lines and every hyphen. Where where is the copy editing on this? On this cover? Yep. I don’t think i’m gonna let you just go by with this job. It’s it’s apparently thie design aesthetic. Okay, which you had no control over, i guess. Hyre okay. Okay. I think this should be hyphen. I mean, i think these things are important in a language, all right, but it helps you enunciate the title very well. Any time, every right. Trying to learn how to spell her. You would think that any time was two different words. And and it’s, not it’s, not everywhere is not two different words. It’s. True. Okay. Um let’s. Ah, i like to reflect a little bit. Okay. We talk all the time about online engagement and with what’s been happening this week. If you are engaged online on your charity, does nothing at all related to anything around violence or maybe victim or family support or politics of guns. Your charity has nothing to do with any of that. How do you respond? What do you do online, too? Let people know that you’re conscious of what happens in the world. That’s outside your own. Sure. I think i mean first i would say i understand the argument of, you know, we don’t work on the politics of gun issues, however, you probably work with people and ultimately in any crisis or disaster, people are involved, you know, and reminding your own staff that it’s not just about bombs or terrorism, this is still about people and treating whatever response, whatever communication you have next in that light that there are people involved in this, i think helps you just take the right tone regardless of where you go next, because you’re then being responsive to what if it was you, you know, you would want someone to treat you are your city or your issue like people were involved. Next, it’s a great opportunity to go check any scheduled messages you have any tweets or facebook post that air maybe already scheduled about something else. Also, look at your content calendar. You know where we planning on sending out an email appeal this week? That was, you know, using the story of this great little kid, and now maybe we don’t i want to do that story or maybe not that message it all this week, you know, not that you have to completely shut down. Every organization didn’t stop this week, but trying to be responsive, teo, the fact that, you know, even in your own goals, you’re probably not going to get the analytics or the metrics you wanted, you know, no one’s going to be clicking through that email anyway, if that’s not what’s on their mind. So looking at not just scheduled tweets, but what’s on your what’s scheduled to go up on your block what’s scheduled to go out and email looking at all of that immediately so that you can either put things on hold, readjust change, maybe which story was going to be in a newsletter? You know, there’s things like print ads or direct mail that that that’s already out there, you know? But people also don’t look at the newspaper and think, i can’t believe that this ad ran like because in our minds, we know that that’s not like a real time media, and we know that that’s program six weeks in it, right? Exactly, but when you see something go up on twitter, you know, when you everyone else is just watching twitter for news updates it it really does feel a little bit more. Careless because they know that you let it happen. You know, you could have changed that tweet. We talk a lot about engaging with people online. Not so dissimilar lee from the way we engage with people face to face, you know? And when when i saw you earlier today, we you know, i told you that i was feeling raw and sensitive and you know, that was that was really basically after right after hello. Yeah. So, you know, i’m doing that in it, you know? I’m sure i’ll do that with friends. I meet for dinner tonight. It’s not it’s, not unlike online when you can have a conversation about this or at least share your feelings when it really it just doesn’t deal with your data your day to day world, right? It’s it’s never going toe. I mean, i don’t want to say never as if any statement could ever be, you know, all all encompassing. But for the most part, it’s not going to hurt your organization to say something like, our hearts are going out to the victims and here’s a link to resource is or hears, you know, the the google spreadsheet that was created to help, you know, people say i found this person or this person is missing, you know, like that it doesn’t hurt your brand, it doesn’t hurt your cause, even though you might work on a totally separate mission to say, hey, we know this is happening, and we want to make sure that we’re one more post in your facebook stream that’s pointing to resource is instead of to something else, okay, excellent. Sabat well, we’re going to pick up with where you and i left off last month. It was march fifteenth with the fund-raising plan, we have just met and a half or so before we go away for a couple of a couple minutes, why don’t you just tease a little bit? Share what, what we might be talking about with respect to a fund-raising plan? Sure, i think last time we talked kind about the components of the plan and this time we can get and i think to the nitty gritty, a little bit more like what does a bee testing really look like in a campaign, especially in real time? How do you figure out what’s working and keep kind of iterating as you’re in the middle of the campaign and then also what does that look like for your organization? Who’s involved once the campaign is live, is it just that development director or other staff? You know, playing into that campaign on then even what does it look like on online? What is what is your website need to do to be responsive to the campaign? Okay, maybe testing. Yeah, i don’t i’m not sure that that really qualifies for jargon jail, i’m not really feeling like putting buy-in jargon, and it probably doesn’t even really qualify. But why don’t you just explain what a be testing is? Sure. So for the most part, you could test everything on your website just by saying, well, it’s, their people are clicking on it, they like it, but it’s a little bit more scientifically valid. If you say have two buttons and people when they came to your website, they’re being presented with one of two buttons, and then you can just leave it up for a few days and say, gosh, anyone that saw the blue button clicked three times more than anyone that saw the red button, for example. So, it’s, just changing one component at a time with two versions, so that you can figure out which works better and then start changing the next thing. And you’re directing people to both of them? Yes, simultaneously. Yep, i guess, randomly, exactly. Okay. And you, you have an excellent example in the book about the the clinton bush haiti fund, and we’ll talk a little about that. Ok, we go away for a couple seconds. When we come back. Amy and i will continue this conversation about about her book and and your fund-raising plan. Stay with us talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, not too many live listeners today, i’m suspecting that a lot of people are if they’re online, they’re looking at cnn or some other some other news source that they trust. But i will say, live listener love out too. Forest grove, oregon and new bern, north carolina also since shu taiwan ni hao and for korea, we have listeners in seoul and young in korea. Buy-in yo haserot glad that you’re very glad, very glad that you’re with us. Thank you. Um okay, kayman sample word let’s talk about some of these details of of a be testing. What does this look like? Well, you can do it. I mean, even though we used the example before of your website, you can do it on anything. You know, you could do it in an email. Newsletters on little microsite, it’s. Just a page essentially, whatever. Wherever you’re trying to put content out, you could do a be testing. So it could mean different photos, different buttons, that text it could also mean having a photo or no photo. You know? Ah lot of organizations will do a b testing specifically around fund-raising with on that on that donation page, does it have a photo or does it just have the form or, you know, does it show maybe a image of some sort that shows, like, how they’re using the funding, for example, or what the project looks like that they’re asking for money for or again, is it just the form, you know? So and that’s it it’s going to change it’s not going to be the same for every single organization? You know, you have to do that testing because if especially if you’re an organization that’s used a lot of images in your campaign in your appeals that’s, you know, that it’s driving people to remember what, what this is all about maybe having that photo there again, we’ll just keep that emotional tie to the campaign. But if it’s your raising money for something that you haven’t been using, that kind of graphical support for, well, maybe people would get there and say, why do you have this random photo of a child up here? You know, so so you want it to be consistent, but you also want a test to see. What’s going to get the most completion on that form. Okay. And so i just said quickly before the break. But you are you are you randomly? Your technology is randomly assigning people too different a and b version that’s what? They be testing it first of a and b version. Is that right? What happens? So there are all different levels of sophistication, so you may be using a tool. Google has a, uh, baby testing tool. Optimize. Lee is another pretty sophisticated tool to use for that, especially around your website. But with email marketing, you could just say we want to send, you know, half the list, this message and half the list. This message or say you have a thousand people on your email list, send the the first one hundred message a the next one hundred message be and then wait two hours, see which one had more opens and then say, great, we’re going to go with that message to the other eight hundred. Okay, so this could be that instantaneous. We’re just a couple of hours. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Now, an email, a popular thing to test is a subject line, right? You could be having different versions of a subject line, right? Everything else would be the same. Exactly. The message inside is the same. But having, you know, a call to action versus you know anyone, regardless of which side you support anyone that’s on a political list. You’ve seen them testing those subject lines. You see messages coming almost every day during campaign season. Sometimes it just has one word. You know, sometimes it has your name in it sometimes it’s a really long call to action and that’s just those campaigns testing out what’s getting the most people to open this on the on the fund-raising landing page side, you have the example of the clinton bush haiti fund. They changed something so subtle, just the words within the button that you click right. The red, they have a red button and i have i’ve read that red is a very powerful colors. Red is supposed to be a very good button color for donate now for donation buttons or buy buttons. So they changed it from submit that the word in the button was submit to support haiti, and they got a fifteen percent increase in dollars per page view just something so subtle is that exactly and part of that, you know, some organizations think, well, we don’t want to write submit because normally, you know what we want them to do is donate or whatever their word choice, maybe, but if you have all throughout your website, if you keep using the word support, support us through your donations, support us by taking this action, and then someone gets to a page where there’s a button that says donate well, it feels really weird because you’ve already been consistently using this it’s other word, so that consistency is important, you know? And again, if if you go look on your website now and you see that on your your donate paige it’s the only place you say the word donate but the rest of the time you really are talking about, support us financially. That’s an opportunity to do some testing because maybe donate works for your organization, and you should change those other places where it says support or the other way around. Okay, excellent example, right of potential testing. Another thing they did there. There’s. This little geo trust verified icon. I guess that it’s a trustworthy site, right? Forgiving? Is that what that is right? And there are all different kinds of those, you know, whether it’s charity navigator, geo trust like all those different things that say, basically, we’re not goingto take your money and do something else with it, i guess again, there’s different levels of what these other certification sites mean to, but some places have found, you know, some organizations found that by putting those kinds of seals of approval, i guess you would say on the donation for more on the button, they saw a big increase, but others have found like they did. You know, when you when you take it away, you actually haven’t they well, they decode, they had to do when they when they took that away, they lost five percent revenue right per page view. Exactly. There’s a trusted icon similar to papal, verified on the commercial side. Exactly. So people have gotten really used to even if people don’t necessarily know what geo trust is or they don’t know what you know, charity navigator is they don’t know what they are, but the fact that it says it’s verified, you know, someone’s looked into these people, give some amount of trust, some of the things that you suggest it could be changed on dh tested form fields, how many form fields you have the donation amounts that air suggested those little radio buttons that you click ten, twenty five, fifty hundred and that’s a really big into change especially, you know, certain campaigns have found easy ways to to mix that up because if they had a number involved in the campaign, you know, if if the campaign was around ah, holiday and it was on the thirteenth or it was a military campaign and they wanted to use the six as there number, and so then you just have increments of six, and you, maybe you say sixty is the default. Whenever organizations test that out, often they find people that the hyre number really does get donated because they’ve just mixed it up a little, you know, they didn’t defaulted to ten, you know, they put it up there a bit because people will still put it down if they want to have a smaller number, you know, but showing kind of the idea with where that preset radio button. Selection is is basically trying to say this is the average gift. This is the normal donation. So it’s not, you know, we’re expecting you to do this, but, hey, most people are doing this one. Thats why its preset on sixty. You know, eso it just encourages people. Tio not think oh, this is just a ten dollar or that’s. Just the twenty five dollar normal donation, you know, so putting different numbers in there that are, like, thirty three and, you know, throws people a little. We have. We have tim sample on the line, tim samples called, and this is amy’s. Dad, he called in last month. Tim. Tim sample. How are you doing in oregon? I’m doing good. Doing good and plays it’s it’s already done, or or a gun or gone where? There’s no evil or we’ll help you. Oregon. All right, there you go. You go. Oregon. Are it’s not gone? There’s? No e at the end. Oh, thank you. Alright, oregon, but i’m right in the middle of work right now, but i’ve had an opportunity to come down on my desk and lock the doors. Nobody bought it. I’m at your disposal. Thank you, tim. You know, i wanted to ask you. I have here with me. You know, this little kind of sort of shrinking kind of wallflower, you know? Never not very engaged. Not very out there. What? What? What is she always like this when she was growing up? Oh, you’re talking about my daughter? Yeah, i know. I know. It’s. Hard to tell. Yeah. Yeah, alright, now, but without the sarcasm has always been a type a personality. Yeah, and always always engaged. Like, was she in? A lot of i could’ve asked her, but it’s more fun to ask you. Was she out there? Like, in activities in elementary school in high school? I mean, she’s, the online engagement, everything poster poster will do you good. Everything she could possibly get involved with. She was involved with her mother, and i tried to give her every opportunity to try every sport, every activity you wanted, you know, you know, as parents, we tried to do that for her can. My god, you’re a good example of amy. I tell this story. He probably doesn’t remember it. But in the second grade, i said anything. You got your homework done? Well, yes. He had two next day’s homework done the whole weeks on. John had read three chapters ahead. It was the last time we ever ask her if she had her homework done. Never had to worry about amy school or anything. Okay. And always self directed, always always getting right with it. And and i feel like he is right now. I know and engaged also always engaged with the public. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. How did we know that she’d end up a consultant and someone that people look to for advice about online engagement? Did you see this coming? I thought he’d be president united states by now myself? No, no pressure. Thanks, dad, but i didn’t want to go into politics. I amy always had a sense of what was right and wrong, you know, always interacting with other children. You know, she always knew what was right or wrong. She never made bad decisions that i can see. And if she did, she so well, i hit way didn’t know about it. All right, we’re back, but, uh, she has a sphere of alligators. Is that is that you’re doing? Is that is that you’re doing, she has a fear of alligators. Is that you’re doing fear of alligators. You’re not aware of this? Well, we don’t have many alligators over here where we live in oregon, oregon in oregon, oregon. No, i know. I never knew he had any fears at all. It was an example after a trip to florida. And tony will let me live it down if it comes up to you. Okay. Yeah, i have a fear of snakes. Oh, i don’t think i pass that on to her. I don’t know if alligators are reptiles like snakes are alligators may or may not be reptiles. Maybe maybe look together. Alright. Alright. We’re gonna let you go back to work, tim. All right, perfect. Thank you very much for calling the opportunity. We thank you that we don’t know if your daughter by tim sample. Okay. Goodbye. All right. I want to have some fun. Do that that’s fair. Okay. This’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. You are in charge of the shop. Future president. I know i the bar’s pretty high now. Yeah, i in fact, when alison find was here last week, i asked her if she thought that a presidential candidate could emerge outside the two major parties from online on. And she felt that it could eventually, but that we would see local, local lance’s first mayor’s maybe governors or senators, you know, but more local than presidential right away. But i was i had you in mind. I had your president cha operations. I don’t i want to. You know, there’s. Another election coming up it’s true only only only few years it’s. Really? Not all that far away. So exactly. Okay, but she felt it was possible. Do you think it’s possible for a for their previous president there emerges online. Yeah, especially. I think around someone from a grassroots campaigning background not political, necessarily, but someone that’s that’s already actively working online to bring people together for other social issues or other co kinds of campaigns. So so someone who’s in it in that way, i think, could easily cross over to say great. Well, now i want to run for for an elected position versus i’m just going to be the organizer that keeps this. Keeps this movement going. Okay. You have anybody in mind? Apparently i need to put myself in the street don’t talk about other candidate. Exactly. Were we stupid? All right, i will go on the record. What’s up today, never mentioning another candidate. All right, um, let’s oh, there was one more thing. I want to point out that matching gif ts is another possible, maybe another another possible testing. So oh, exactly the existence of or how big a match might be, right? Especially, you know, something to think about with phrasing of matching gifts is there’s the version of, you know, if we get to this number, we get that same total matched or every ten dollars gets matched. So then people think, well, my ten dollars isn’t going to mean much to this really big pot. We have to get two of twenty thousand, but if instead you say the matches, you know, dollar for dollar, whatever you khun give, how does that affect your community? Because some communities may really get behind the idea of, like, having to get to that really big number together and other communities want to feel like they’re five dollars, was still matched and still meant ten dollars, for the organization. So think about the way you use the match in your campaign, and several weeks ago, we had a university professor on from university of chicago. John list talked about scientific research around matching gift does. Does a three to one match necessarily pulled more than a one to one match, right and where and on dh, also, in the phraseology of the match, what you’re describing and that will show was on february eighth of this year. If you want to hear discussion about the scientific research specifically around matching gift excellent, we’re going. T take more of a break, another break, and when we come back, we’ll talk more about who gets involved in the campaign, some budgeting, maybe some calendar ring and things like that, and also tony’s take, too, of course, comes before all that. Stay with me. Good evening, dick, dick, tooting, getting dick, dick, dick, dick, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Nothing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Durney welcome back, live live listener love for berlin, germany joined us good noggin on dh time now for tony’s take to my block this week is keep your marketing simple i’m going to try to adhere to that right now concise, informative, jargon free, i think it’s not easy to do, but i do think it’s worth striving for it just makes your communications so much simpler on the receiving end, whatever, whichever way’s you’re communicating, achieve least shoot for simplicity. My blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty sixth ono were who wrote this friday, the nineteenth of april, and that is the sixteenth show of the year. Amy who’s, who should be involved in this work and how are we going toe? I estimate the time that’s going to be involved in our online campaign? Sure, i think fund-raising campaigns just like any other campaigns organization, maybe running advocacy list building, you know, community engagement, etcetera can’t be thought of as something that’s completely contained within the fund-raising department, because ultimately there are e mails and there’s this a b testing on the website and all of those other components require all different staff from different departments, so it’s an opportunity to to create, i think, processes we suggest in the book where you will have regular opportunities for staff across departments, not necessarily like on all staff meeting, but staff across departments that are ultimately all creating the success of that campaign to come together, whether that’s like every week or however your organization wants to do it, to have a meeting where you’re all in the room at the same time, or all on video chat or whatever you want to do so that everyone’s talking about it. So as soon as you break that campaign down into the people that are in charge of the email never talked to the people that were in charge of actually counting how many people are coming through the form, then you’ve already said, well, we’re not even going to have the best conversation we can have with this campaign staff aren’t talking to each other, so creative process first, so that everyone involved is coming together regularly to talk about kosh. We saw that this button language was the best. Well, the email better have that same button. Language, you know, any maybe testing that you’re doing anything you’re learning about what’s working with the campaign should then be immediately reflected in all the other components. So how you either evaluate ahead of time staff time or recognize all those different pieces are maybe serving the rest of the organization. So thinking of of people in communications is not just communications staff that all they do is communicate, but they also served fund-raising and they also serve advocacy, and they also served programs. So what does that mean as far as your staff plan? And what does that mean for your value evaluation of staff? You know, those communications staff in this example couldn’t just say, well, my job is to send e mail and i sent them, but how, you know, how was your function in this organization, reflective of our success in our fundraising campaign were reflective of the success in our advocacy campaign so that it’s showing that that person isn’t just responsible for hitting send on thousands of emails but showing them even in their own evaluation, that they’re part of the whole organization success, which i think is critical for having all of you dafs buy-in toe working towards your mission. You know as soon as you say, well, your job is just the website. What their job is the web site because it’s serving the mission of helping people understand you know what your your cause is all about and so did did they lead the baby testing that help figure out that that button actually could have, you know, in increased by fifteen percent the donations that’s huge that’s, not just the fund-raising team that’s also that person who’s managing the website. What about the smaller shop? Just a two or three person arts group? I mean, how are we gonna build even ah, modest campaign into what we’re trying to. We’re struggling to keep get getting done day in, day out, right? I think, for smaller organizations, but really, the same lesson applies to everyone. Ah lot of of the components of the campaign are actually developed way in advanced. If you’re collecting stories actively as you are working with your community year and you’re keeping those stories not just on a piece of paper in your desk, but, you know, kind of like a story bank you have you have ah, bank. You could draw from of all these different stories then in that moment when you need to create a campaign, maybe it’s a response of campaign because some horrible event has happened and you want to make sure people are aware of your services. You know, for example, you have that content. You don’t have to then spend a week developing. Okay, who’s, who from our community do we want to talk to? You know, where could we get a story about our services in action? You’ve already created that content in advance. So especially when you only have two people, the more you can do to just kind of be librarians, you know, tio, cart, chronicle and archive all that you have all the time so that you can really easily just say that’s, you know the book i want that’s the story i want off that shelf and let’s put it into this email. And then again, a be testing is so, i think, critical for really small shops, because if you really can just say we’re going to send this e mail to one hundred people each and then know that the one that got more opens is what we’re going to send, even though it took you maybe an extra five minutes to go back and say, okay, now, send this list. That was a really great five minutes, because it means you’re getting that many more people opening that message let’s, look it. Ah, um, budgeting our campaign may involve some adwords. Facebook, facebook, yeah, how are we going toe? How do we figure out what what we should be spending money on is beyond the time. That also is an indirect, indirect cost, right? First, obviously, you know, you have to have the caveat of it all depends what’s your campaign about where is your community? Ah lot of people have have realized that you’re not necessarily just going to make all of your money from your fund-raising campaign on facebook, but a lot of those people that are participating as donors, maybe on your facebook page. So thinking about how you budget for promotion of the campaign versus budget, for the call to action, you know, you may want to just invest in having ads showing the efficacy of your work so that when people are then emailed a call to donate, they’re like, oh, yeah, you guys do really great stuff. I do want to donate via email because that’s, my, you know, i’ll just click don’t and go to your website, but maybe it’s different for your organ community. Maybe your community doesn’t really know, and they just need to be told, like there was a disaster and donate, you know, it depends a lot in the circumstances, i think it’s also, especially with things like facebook, where they’re changing the algorithm like every five hours you have to do so. May be testing, you have to invest in that a be testing. So you know which of these ads are working better? Do we do promoted posts, or do we do ads? So some of it is just having a reserve of that advertising budget to test with and you don’t have to spend a lot of money, you know, like facebook ads or not expensive, right? For probably fifty dollars or so you could oh, exactly, you attest? Oh, for sure, yeah, and the problem or the great opportunity that could become a new obstacle for organizations, is that when you get in there to do a facebook at our, you know, promoted post, you’re you’re presented with the opportunity to pick like which gender location, background so many details that it can either be overwhelming and you just say, well, i just want to go to everyone, and then you’re going to run out of that fifty dollars budget instantly, you know, or you get so narrow and who you want this ad to go, too, but it never really goes to anyone, so i think there’s a little bit of opportunity, teo play even just with that. That scale of who do you really want to promote this to? Who is your donor and what do you know about them? Which goes back to what we talked about months ago, about how, you know, investing and knowing who your community is first, so that you can say the right things on the right channels, and i appreciate that your advice always is. What are the goals of the campaign right now, and not only to raise the money that that? Well, actually, the campaign may not be about even about money, but may not only be the explicit purpose of the campaign, but also to grow engagement in the long term, bring some new people to the cause may not even buy-in respond to your call to action, but now they’ve joined your community exactly, exactly, and for them this you know, your campaign that maybe their friend donated to was the first time they had heard aboutyou, but they’re now hearing about you in a really trusted way, because they heard that a friend not only supported your work but gave money to your work, and now they just wanted follow along, and eventually you can. You know, encourage them up that ladder of engagement to become a donor as well. And in that respect, not everything in your campaign has to be about the call to action, right? I mean, i know i guess you want the called action to be frequent, but there can be things that are informative beyond the call to action. Exactly. I think a lot of organizations were shook about a fundraising campaign, i think. Okay, first and foremost, they are donating to this campaign. They’re going to donate to this campaign. They really get that out there, and then people donate and then there’s nothing else, you know. So people feel like, well, i did the thing, but there has to be more aiken dio so recognizing that there is always more they khun dio having that thank you, paige pushed them to the very next step. What’s, the next step for you is that great. Thanks for donating here’s the button to share on facebook that you just donated, you know, or is the email confirmation encouraging them to share their story about why they donated so that now you have one more story and your story bank? You know, so think about what people can do to still feel like they’re contributing to this forward motion because they already donated, which is huge, so don’t take someone who’s willing to take a really big action and then just dropped them off, keep them, you know, sustained that engagement and keep them engaged so that you can ask them to donate again, you know, if they haven’t heard from you, and now you’re asking again for them to donate, will they feel like don’t you remember that i already donated? But if you’ve said, you know, hey, share this on facebook? Hey, give us your story, etcetera, and then you say thank you for donating. Please help some more. They feel like yes, of course we are trying to get there together. What is ah, home page hijack for-profit it’s called many things, but basically i’m sure most people have experiences when you go to a website and you just, you know, landed on the website haven’t clicked on anything, and then something pops up. Even the new york times does this you you think you’re going to go? Read an article from the new york times that your friend just tweeted that and there’s a thing that pops up that says, don’t you want to pay for new york times content? Why don’t you subscribe? That’s that’s ah, home page pre-tax, for example, it’s basically a light box that pops up and says, whatever you thought you were here to read. This is what we want you to read and it’s great for people that if they really are just hitting your home page because maybe they were, you know, searching online for something and came to your website, they don’t know or you have directed people back to website, and it can pop up and say, this is what’s happening here is the called action here’s, that big red button that says support haiti or whatever, and obviously they could close out of the box or lorts like autumn, it etcetera, but the fact that it makes it super front and center left, literally front and center on the website helps direct that traffic into the call to action where you could maybe instead of them seeing your home page that’s, you know, normally fairly generic has lots of navigation, et cetera and drives them to a page that’s just about the campaign, you know, really focused. They can see the donate form they khun see whatever helps funnel people just to the campaign instead of accidentally clicking unlike, oh, what is this organization about? And what do you do and what’s? This other thing? I see a photo of, you know, it just helps funnel people in where you want them to go. You have advice about how frequently someone may see that home page hijack, so maybe it shouldn’t be more than once a week person and the technology will support that our exam twice a week per person or whatever you think exactly, yeah, i mean, it’ll where people out if every time they go to any page of your website, they’re getting this pop up essentially, you know, but if you can say yeah, once a week or the first time someone comes to the website because maybe outside of a fundraising campaign, you could use that for many things you could have it say, join our email list, you know, subscribe to our news, whatever you want that pop up to be so if you see that every time well, gosh i signed up a week ago, and i’m seeing it every day, you know, so just may be the first time that i p address hits the web site, you know? We’re going to take a break in about a minute. We want to have some print possibly to be in support of our campaign. I want to just open that topical bit. We’ll talk more about it shortly. Sure, i think print is actually a great medium, especially for fund-raising still one of the main drivers of fund-raising effort so looking again at that piece as a way to frame all of the content that’s going to come later because you’re going to be ableto change up at the very last minute, what you tweet and what you put in an e mail, etcetera. But if that print piece supports that overall called to action, the overall message and maybe has just won fairly general story that you can then really dig into that story of what that person’s you know, experience was or what those services mean to the community. It’s a great way to frame things as a oh, yeah, i remember this, you know, every time. They didn’t get an e mail from you. Alright, we’ll talk more about this and the fund-raising plan in general. When we return with amy, sample ward. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Dahna hi there again and welcome back. Uh, anything more than you want to say about print in support of this, i would i would add that prince should certainly be needs to be in this fund-raising calendar with a campaign calendar that we talked about last month and it’s something that we’ve talked about in the past, i forget what episode number, but we talked about competition and how teo, you know, if if you were doing a phone bank, for example, of donations and you and you mentioned the research shows, at least if you were to mention, you know, the previous collar don’t thisyou know people are more inclined to say, well, i’m going to do that if someone else did print is a really easy way to do that as well, because you clearly know where they live, you are mailing something to them. So say, on average, people in your neighborhood donated this last year to our campaign. Oh, my gosh, now they like now i’m going to look in on my neighbor’s like which ones of you donated one hundred dollars? Now i feel guilty, i’m going to donate a hundred dollars, you know? So so keep those same principles that you use online with making it be a riel story, having it connected to something directly when your mission have a very clear call to action. But then take advantage of that local competition that peer pressure of this is this is really, really in your neighborhood. But also this is how people are actually helping us. So you should too. We can also have competition in telemarketing right in our telephone call once just remind i think this may have been last month, but in the way that callers are greeted and encouraged or thanked for their past giving, there could be some competitiveness. Exactly. Exactly. So i’m not just saying like, oh, thanks you want to donate, but also, you know oh, you have reviews caller exactly. The previous collar donated this. And if you can, if you can hear sometimes, you know it’s it’s hard to just make a judgment. But if you could hear that it was a male calling and you could say, oh, well, the man before you donated this if you if you have that opportunity too, to be gender specific, the results or even hyre from studies that say, you know, once i’m told the previous collar was a woman and she don’t even more than me well, man, i want to donate as much as her, so all right, let’s, let’s wrap up our campaign with the thank you’s yes, thank you’s are critical and thank you don’t have to be at the end of the campaign. Thank you should be every time someone’s done something, so when they sign up for that email lists, you know, thank them if they donated, thank them, but also do that thinking in public when you can, you know, you’ll see people in the campaign putting on facebook that they, you know, because they got to the thank you page, the confirmation page, and they tweeted or they posted to facebook that they just donated, well, that’s a great place if the organization is then liking that post you, you know, privacy settings are such that you can see their post or on twitter, the organization is retweeting them to them that’s huge validation the organization noticed that i just tweeted out, you know, that i donated and i’m i got retweeted or i got thanked publicly and that certainly doesn’t take, you know, a lot of effort. You’re not creating any new content. You’re just saying thank you very much. But it can mean a lot publicly for the community to see those individual voices being thanked. How do you feel about the mailing of small small tokens? Oh, yeah, of gratitude. Oh, i think i think a hand written note, even if all it says is, you know, tony, thanks so much for your donation. Amy. It was a hand written note. It had to go through the mail. You know, it means a lot. Exactly. Could be something online, maybe maybe a little gift certificate or a discount to a site or something. Exactly how else can we say the small ways of saying thank you, right? And there are lots of ways where you know it. And ten we can say thank you by saying, you know, to thank you for what you’ve done here is a free webinar, for example, you know, web in our past. But for other organizations, it can also be an opportunity to say, because you donated, you’re now invited to this event that’s only for our donors. You know, so you’re also providing access to something that is otherwise exclusive, and you can use that as a way to say, hey, all of our donors are going to be joining us at this, you know, a local place that everyone knows is really fun or, you know, historic or whatever come join us in this, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, because he’ll be a national campaign, but you could say if you’re a donor, you’ll get the link to the live stream and you get to be there for this interview with our founder or whatever, and even if people don’t want to go it’s still saying, we know tony, you donated, and we want you as part of this conversation, just the act of inviting exact is very, very it is very gracious, exactly in larger organizations that i that i work with, well, often invite people on the other side of the country to a luncheon that we’re hosting in new york city to to say thank you right way don’t expect them to come. We know the observers are tiny that they will, but the act of the invitation what if they were going to be in town for other business where they were going to be in town meeting with someone, and now they can say, oh, while i’m there, i’m also going to go to this luncheon because i donated and that’s really cool, you know, i’ve never asked you this. You’ve been on many times. What is it that you love about the work that you do, this whole body of work that you that you’re involved with? What is it you love? I i love the people like i love that we are in a position to get to support not just one person that we’ve met, you know, and, like, help them do whatever, but we can help hold communities that’s really exciting, you know, or that you can help all of those people in the community know that they’re in a community. I mean, i think that’s the really exciting power of the internet is that people thought i’m the only person that has x y and z here on the only person it’s experienced this, and now they go online like, oh my gosh, i’m not special at all there’s a million people who’ve had this and so part of it is that that feeling of like, i’m not special, but i’m not special because there are so many of these other special people you know, and getting to find them and create community with each other, even when you can’t all be physically in the same room. Her latest book is social change. Anytime everywhere you’ll find amy’s blawg at amy, sample ward, dot or ge once again, a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Be sure and thank him for calling it. I will it’s dad, dad to you? Yes, next week policy versus paper clips a conversation with eugene fram he’s, professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology. Dr fran is author of the book policy versus paper clips introducing non-profits to a corporate model of board governance to cut out the minutia from your agendas so that the board can focus where it should on policy and planning. We’re all over the social web. One example twitter can use the hashtag non-profit radio to talk back after the show. Tell us how we’re doing. You could tell me how we’re doing. I’m at tony martignetti you can follow amy sample ward she’s at amy rs board. We know that the army’s for rene handup, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. I’d hate to contract a chronic or acute disease. In the meantime, that’ll be one to two p m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Hyre oppcoll are you going to do? You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Nothing. Upleaf hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at w w w dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Dahna hyre

Nonprofit Radio, April 12, 2013: Followship & Social Media Boundaries

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

picture of Allison Fine
Allison Fine
Allison Fine: Followship

Allison Fine, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit,” has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow nonprofits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of followers while still keeping Oz in sight. She’ll share her thoughts.

 
 

picture of Gene Takagi
Gene Takagi
Gene Takagi: Social Media Boundaries

Our legal contributor, Gene Takagi from the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), suggests rules for your use of social media. It’s not a free-for-all for your employees and volunteers. Gene will help you stay out of trouble.

 
 
 


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Dahna hi there on. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Have you read it to review the show on itunes? If you haven’t, i’d be grateful if you go there. I know you don’t have to go back once you subscribe, but i’d be grateful if you would make the trip here’s what some people are saying in reviews gold for non-profits the best non-profits show period although that person had eclipsys after that period. So it’s period eclipsys i’m amazed at the variety equality and depth of his interviews. That person probably thinks i’m shallow. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been amazed he should just be fulfilled and his expectations being met. You have no idea what the trouble i went through to put those three reviews up their different accounts, i had to go to a public library, use the computer there. So please supplement those three that i put up with with your own one two, five star rating and and review the show. I’d be grateful. This is friday, april twelfth and i very much hope that you were with me last week because i would develop acute pancreatitis if i heard that you had missed talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot president of practice development council, is a consultant and coach in cross generational communications think sixtieth, sixty ish boss and twenty five ish employees or seventy year old fundraiser and thirty year old donor-centric ship, phyllis had strategies for understanding and working across the generations. This week, followship alison find, co author of the network non-profit, has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers, while still keeping oz insight and she’s going to share her thoughts. Also, social media boundaries. Our legal contributor, jean takagi from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo suggests rules for your use of social media it’s not a free for all for your employees and volunteers, jean will help you stay out of trouble between the guests on tony’s take two. The irs is still using form nine ninety to inquire about your compliance with state charity registration laws. Sounds thrilling, but i can make a lot more interesting than it sounds. My pleasure now to welcome alyson find she studies and rights at the intersection of social media and social change. She’s, author of the award winning book mo mentum, igniting social change in the connected age, published by wile e. Her latest book is the networked non-profit co authored with beth cantor, also widely published. She’s, a contributor to harvard business review online that’s at hbr dot or ge she hosts a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy called social good. I have one of those, too, and she blog’s a fine blawg at allison fine dot com. They’re two l’s in allison on twitter, she’s at a fine allison with two l’s welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thanks for having me, tony. I’m delighted to be here. Thanks, alison. Um, you work at the intersection of social media and social change. It sounds like a crossing guard. Yeah, what’s their what’s it that intersection well on off a lot of activity, uh, and a reshaping of institutional life right now. Uh, whereas what used to be on the outside for institutions are in use on the insider is out and that’s the kind of changing of the contours in the landscape that i’ve been taking a hard look at the last several years. What do you mean what’s in was what’s out was in what it’s in is out? What do you mean by that? Well, so imagine tony, you’re running a small social service agencies surety and there are bloggers out there and tweeters and a whole bunch of other folks who are interested in your issue and they’re looking hard. So those folks who used to be on the outside not really able to see inside are poking around now, and they’re talking about your issues and they’re talking about your organization and on the other side, the staff of organisations, whether organizational leadership of likes it or not, are on social media channels and talking about the organization. Well, so what used to be on the inside is now on the outside, uh, and what it does mainly for very traditional non-profit leaders gear the heck out of them. Yeah. There’s ah, right. Scaring about scared about losing control. Yeah, they already lost control. Go continue to care that they’re going to lose it. Okay, on dh. What are your thoughts around? Followship? What do you mean by followship? So now we’re looking at an environment and ecosystem where organizations are flatter, some by economic necessity and others because they’re using social media and networks better and, uh, there’s this changing relationship, as i said between inside and outside and the reality is tony, that people who are open toe helping causes and non-profits aren’t sitting back on their couches waiting to be told what to do, they aren’t waiting for the latest press release to come out, so smart organizations are understanding that in this new environment they have to lead by following their crowd and it’s a very different dynamic. It doesn’t mean they’re not leaders right there setting big goals and saying to folks were trying to get from here, there, you know, we’re trying to end homelessness, we’re trying to reduce obesity, whatever the big goal is, but we need you our crowd to help us get from here to there, and you’re going to do that by being creative and energetic and working side by side with us. But why do why does why do i, as the leader of this very well run? Stewart lee run very efficiently run very productive social organised social service. Organisation that that i’m head of why do i? Why do i need to follow? Don’t i know the goal? What you say you like to say, oz and and how best to get there? I mean, i have a strategic plan, i have a board we’ve we’ve interviewed like minded agencies in the town, in the in the community, we’ve included our community in those interviews to produce that strategic plan. I mean, i think i know best i’m sure you d’oh uh, but the bottom line is, tony, you might think you know best, but social problems are enormously complex. We aren’t making progress in a lot of areas, and if organizations are very honest with themselves, they’ll see oftentimes the lack of progress and we can’t do this work alone, we have got to do this work in communities with communities, and the only way to do that is to treat people as part of your effort, not the foot soldiers doing on ly what you asked. So you’re taking a look at the fact that, uh, things like hunger and poverty and homelessness and domestic violence and climate change any literal way economic we’ve been at these things for generations, you know, so look, over the last thirty years, the needle hasn’t moved on these things, not because we’re not trying, not because there aren’t smart people doing the work, but because they are enormously difficult to solve, and institutions alone can’t solve them. It’s very dismaying to me is i think about all those things that we’ve been at for for generations, but don’t be dismayed, tony, because the great news is we’ve got this, you know, very vital, robust, energetic new way of looking at the world using our social media tool kit oh, and engaging networks of people to do great things, but you’re very encouraged, okay? But you’re concerned also, that people are that leaders are not engaging in the right way. They’re more following their their written strategic plan or they’re they’re treating as you suggested constituents as foot soldiers, you know, do this now, volunteer now sign the petition now. Donate now come to our event, uh, and and and they are exhausted. I spoke to over five hundred social service leaders in wichita, kansas yesterday. Lovely, lovely people. And they are exhausted, tony and they are struggling financially and they’re getting burned out and this is a large reason why pushing the boulder up a hill by yourself as a siloed institution is not an effective way of working. Okay, we don’t have to do it anymore. We have an alternative. Okay, followship is our alternative that’s? Exactly right? Okay, i’m not just made anymore. I’m already uplifted and just just ninety seconds you turn me around all right? So you want teo, you say, you know, take down silos, break down walls, open the culture wei have just like two minutes or so before our first break. What’s our what’s, our first step we need to know where these people are, what they want to do. The first step is listening. Yeah, right. So the first step is once you have come to the understanding of i need to work different, like, you know, there was a world out there that i can connect with. But i have to do it in the right way. Then you begin by listening. What are people out there talking about in regards to my issue and regards, maybe to my institutions. And how can i best help them more listening than we did in the interview’s for creating this music plan that’s exactly right? I’m in a more natural wave of listening through conversation like tony, right? This isn’t a science. This is being human and asking people tell me what you think. Tell me how we’re doing. Tell me why you were dismayed last year when we didn’t do act. I really think social media provides an opportunity for us to re humanize ourselves out there. So i, as the head of this social, i’d like to be ceo of a rather executive director. Okay, president, ceo of this social services so i khun b or i should be engaging directly. Well, you know, social media is not a spectator sport contact sport made everybody hands on and in order for you to run your agency, i think you’ve got to be engaged with your community. All right? I don’t want to break my collarbone. No, like that baseball player did just yesterday. That would be bad. That was just too much contact. But you can’t go on injured reserve. We need you on the field. Okay, on doubt. I mean, i could be having face to face conversations with my folks, too, right? Yes, thanks for the reminder. I never, ever want to give anybody the impression at social media, a substitute for in person engagement. It augments it, it never, ever take the place of it. We’re gonna pick up right there. We got to go away for a couple of minutes. I’ll have some live listener love when we come back and continue this conversation with alison, fine about followship. She’ll stay with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated ghisolf dot com or it’s. Six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com konnichiwa live listener love to tokyo and support of japan. Konnichiwa. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Live listener love also california. We got san francisco and tustin, california. Welcome, san antonio and clifton, texas live listener love to you as well on dh lots of others to come. All right, alison, what should we be listening if we’re gonna be listening? We need to be asking questions of the folks who are connected to our to my cause. What? What? What questions should i be asking? Well, it’s it’s going to depend entirely on your particular cause, tony and and where you are and your life cycle of your organization you just starting. Are you? You know, more mature. I really strongly encouraged people to actually start by just listening and not speaking. Not something that we are taught to dio anywhere. I didn’t take a graduate course in it, did you? No. And in fact, when i was in the dark days when i used to practice law, i was i was always upset that there wasn’t a billing code for listening or thinking that was another there’s never a code for. Thinking i always had to be doing something, producing some documents, some delivery ble what couldn’t i just bill half an hour for thinking about your case? I couldn’t do it. No, i i understand that. And we, you know, in the nonprofit sector b value, dizziness, a great deal. Uh, but it’s very important to get a feel for what people are talking about, what they’re passionate about, what they’re interested in and then to begin to practice asking questions. There’s a great irony, tony actually have to remember howto ask a good question because organizations aren’t good at it we’re so used to broadcasting, though, used to wrapping up ourselves and talking points that are closed, that learning how to honestly openly, authentically asked a riel question that you want to know the answer to that you don’t already know the answer to take some practice. And, of course, this all feeds into riel engagement in the social networks. Exactly. Exactly think about it, tony, think about the number of times you’ve been approached by a non-profit right that there is a they send you a press release or they send you? Ah, you know, direct mail piece. And those aren’t conversations, right? Those they’re just messages being sent at you. You know, it’s a broadcast broadcast right now think about the difference of if you got from somebody who said, you know, i know that you came to our event last year. Um, how’d it go for you? Would you think about it? What do you think about us? What can we do? Better but that’s a conversation. Okay, okay, now we need to ah, keep our goals in sight. Um, you’re just you want us to be you want me to be flexible and how i get to them. That’s exactly right. There’s a group called epic change epic epic change. Okay, they are raising money to give to for global poverty alleviation. And the way they go into every year is they create a facebook group. They invite their, you know, folks duitz expressed an interest in their cause or rather than few fewer into the group they here’s the goal for the year. We’re trying to raise x amount of money or we’re trying to work in a new country. How we going to do it? How we’re going to get from here to there and people really engaged, it takes those great facilitation skills. That’s what followship is all about right? It’s, not the wild west you’re not just letting it go anywhere it wants to go. You’ve got to be a great cocktail party host to make that happen, right? Keeping the conversation going, but it really is being respectful of the creativity and smarts of your supporters and engaging them in a process of getting you from here to there. What am i going to say to my board that looks at me let’s say this is a five year old agency and i’ve got ah, oh, seven hundred fifty thousand dollars annual budget, right, trying to keep it fairly modest, but, you know, i’d like to have achieved something in five years for pete’s sake. Um, my board expects me to be the leader. What am i going to say to them when i’m asking when i’m asking them to allow the agency to be flexible and taking tio not only take into consideration, but follow the follow the lead of the crowd? Uh, with so if you have a very skeptical board, which would be a shame, right? We really got to think about who serves on board and and why we keep packing them with so many lawyers. Yes, much bigger topics for life, right? Because, lord find on certainly uncertainty very, very unsettling. Yes, you well, now. Ah, so if that’s the kind of bored that you have, what i strongly recommend is that you try followship as an experiment, take one small area in which you work for this year, maybe it’s one fund-raising event, maybe it’s one new program or revamping an existing program and try out the idea you’re not throwing the whole organization out. You’re continuing with the things that work. But you are figuring out a new way to work with people that will be particularly appealing to younger supporters. That’s, i think, is the case you could make any board. Okay, we’ll take it and we’ll take it in bite-sized pieces. Could it be? Could we do this around an event? Absolutely. You had suggested the event earlier. How do we do have a wee look what could have done better? Think about the difference tony of posting on facebook from a group that you’ve liked that says march nineteenth is our gala dinner buy your tickets now from a post echo’s up six months earlier that says we’d like to do a spring event. What kinds of things have you been to lately that you like? What kinds of things do you think we could do and start a conversation about it? Which one do you feel more excited about? Yeah, i’m going to participate in the latter. Mohr you engaged me now i have a pretty sizable ego, though. It’s gonna be hard for me now. All right? So you’ll help me persuade the board. Now, i have to now have to persuade myself that i don’t have all the answers in our community geever so if you feel that you have all the answers, i would suggest social change work is probably not a good fit for you. Therapy is probably wise psychiatry, perhaps even psychotropic drugs i’m already using them. I’m afraid already on psychotropics led me to this delusion. This is really, really hard work now, okay? It doesn’t mean that we don’t need mars confit and people running organizations. Of course we do. But if their ego is so large, they don’t allow other people. To help them solve large community problems, and they’re not going to get very far because these are collective problems that need collective solutions. You’re critical of president obama’s campaign back from two thousand eight what what happened there? I don’t think so much in two thousand eight is as opposed to this last one, so two thousand eight it was great fun, right? They let people come in and gave them a menu of things that you could do and let them go, which is great then they forgot about them once they got elected. I didn’t quite know what to do with a multimillion person proud once they got into the white hot right house because, you know, forbid somebody should talk about marijuana or something that made them uncomfortable. So they put them all into a direct mail, dona base and that’s. What they did this last election cycle was that they had a very clear, tightly controlled, um, ways of managing people as fundraisers and as voters. And that was it. So i found the last cycle enormously disempowering for people. Zamora how they treated the two thousand eight followers. Exactly in two thousand twelve you don’t really think you’re so smart and creative anymore. We don’t really need your help that way. All we need are your checks in your vote. People have a lot more to give them that ego. We know it now. We’ve been in office for years. We know what we’re doing, we know what we’re doing, and we’re going to control this thing to get from here to there. Allison fine is and author most recently of the network to non-profit, which is widely published and that you can find it on amazon. You can also find it on the barnes and noble actually found it a little less expensive at barnes and noble. Um, and i want to send some more live listener love, so to new bern, north carolina, frederick, maryland, and lasalle, illinois live listener love we have listeners in china knee how that’s from shanghai and hei bai, the asian continent very well represented for tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thank you. I’m glad you’re with us week to week. Um, alison, do you think a a presidential candidate could emerge from the social networks? I think what we’re going to see tony is we’re going to see it start at a more grassroots level. We’re going to start to see some layers around the country and then some governors who come up this way. Uh, it’s too hard to try to scale this at a national level first, i think, but you’re going to find somebody who’s very good at this. And, you know, rand paul could be that person because the tea party really get followship or there really are they particularly grassroots organizing online in a way that other people down they are particularly good at online engagement there. Fenton, stick at it. How so? What? What does that they do that you admire? Uh, they allow lots and lots of people to talk very loudly. Right? So being loud doesn’t bother them at all. A part of their dna. Being loud bothers other organizations and awful lot. It scares them. They support local organizing without having a need to try to control all the local organizing. They’re fried or foundation does the same thing right gives you an idea of what you should be doing. So the local p party talk. About these kinds of things, but when and how you do it that’s up to you say the name of the foundation again. You cut out. I’m sorry. The surfrider foundation. Thank you. Surf rider. Okay, they’re fried. Er it’s a non-profit thirty five years old in county started in california to provide coastal cleanup. They have hundreds of, um, chapters around the country. And tony, they basically let them do what they want to do. If you want to mash up our logo, go ahead. If you want teo street cleanup this year instead of coastal cleanup, go ahead. And in the end, the spokes do an amazing amount of work on dh. Just engage thousands of volunteers in this third rider. Like the tea party, i understand that you can provide big goals. You can provide the contours of what we need done and then let people go. Those are excellent examples. I never thought of the tea party as as such a good example of online engagement. But yeah, everything you’re saying is true. They do. They said broad outlines and and then they have hundreds of local activists and i mean and low under the local. Chapters and they’re not worried about descent. They’re not worried about disagreement, they’re not worried about some yelling. You know what happens to awesome with organizations, tony, is they’re so concerned about anything that smacks of criticism that they find it very difficult to step outside in unguarded ways. All right, um, the strategic plan that i’ve mentioned that we my organization spent about twenty thousand dollars on for a consultant to help administer and do the interviews and coalesce, and we had that nice powerpoint deck that they presented to the board a year ago. What am i going to do with my strategic plan? Throw it out. Oh, allison, fine, i said i was being very polite when you mentioned it the first time, and i didn’t bring it up. What a waste of money it was. Well, all right, let’s, talk about it now, because i’ve got my board on board and i’ve set my ego aside. That’s a very big step. Yeah, but it hasn’t solved the problem yet, right? So look how many groups you know that spent all that time and money on a strategic plan. Do everything in the planet at the end. Go the boy. That was the best thing we ever did. All right, maybe one or two over my career. Mainly. What you hear is holy, who spent a lot of time on that thing for sure. And in that process, you know, closer to your community as an organization, right? You had an outside or talk to them a zoho you couldn’t talk to them, which i don’t underst dan oh, that’s interested? Yes, i can’t talk to your community. That’s the core got a scientific approach, tio data collection because that’s the corner of their plan. You know, i was a program evaluator for a long time, tony. So you know, i have respect for people who collect data, but to say that you need an outside to come in and interview stakeholders for your organization, as opposed to the conversations you should be having every day with the people who are most important to your efforts. I don’t get it. And then the worst part, though, is pretending that we can project out years at a time. Right now, when anybody who’s successful in business will tell you right now that you can’t plan out more than a year? You just can’t your troublemaker. I am okay. And i’m small, so people really kind of leave me alone. I admire troublemakers. I like things to be shaken up. It’s a school during you call a pot stirring okay? During, right? Something that pops. Not so much troublemaker. All right, i’ll call you troublemaker. You call yourself a buster? How does the occupy movement do? Just we just have about two minutes left. What’s your assessment of them. I think that, uh, i think it’s fascinating. I think they did a great job of turning out. Ah, lot of people. But i think of that kind of organizing tony like a pointillist painting. It’s one dot and it’s going to take a lot of dots over a lot of time for that thing to mature. It’s. Not over yet. It’s just in its infancy ilsen. Fine. I hope you’re going to come back. My pleasure, i hope. It’s been my pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much. Alison. Fine. Her latest. My pleasure. Her latest book, the network non-profit co authored with beth cantor. You confined it. Amazon. You can find it at barnes and noble and on twitter, she’s a fine thankyou again, alison. My pleasure, tony talking. We’re gonna go away when we come back. Tony’s, take two about some charity registration technicalities and then social media boundaries with jean takagi. Stay with me. Ditigal lending the dude in the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Dahna and i’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio time for my take to taxes are on everybody’s mind april fifteenth coming up so i’m talking about the tax form that charity’s fill out the nine, ninety and between that form and one of its schedules, there are two questions that probe your offices compliance with state charity registration laws, which i always think is interesting that’s a federal agency questioning whether you’re complying with state laws. It’s not a good idea too fudge on those questions because you’re nine, ninety assigned by an officer under penalty of perjury. So you want to be conscious of your compliance with those registration laws in each state where you are soliciting donations, it’s not enough to just be registered in your home state if you are soliciting in other states. The post on my block is irs continues inquiry on charity registration compliance the block is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twelfth of april fifteenth show of the year jean takagi is with me he’s, our regular legal contributor to the principal at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com, and he is at gi tak gt. A k on twitter. Jean takagi, welcome back. Thanks, sonny. How you doing? I’m doing well, pleasure to have you back, it’s, good to talk to you. We don’t want to need to set some boundaries around social media. Why do we need more than just sort of usage guidelines? Well, let me first get some of your opening comments, tony, dark days when you’re a lawyer. Oh, yes. So you have a song about just go i jean i you know, i i love that you love the practice of law, it did not do for me what it does for you, but i appreciate that, tony, it definitely isn’t for everyone. And i heard alison’s comments as well about lawyers finding uncertainty unsettling on probably being deal breakers and, well, now i don’t think she said, did you say deal breakers? I know should i sort of added okay, well, let’s, not let’s, not put words in my mouth because defamation is one of things we’re going to talk about your there we go. So part of the reason why you need you need rules in this game. And so i actually agree with ours that lawyers do find uncertain uncertainty unsettling, and we can sometimes be deal breakers, which are my words and part of the reason why is that? Because if we give advice, tio some organizations and, you know what, consultant were to give that advice and has ninety nine percent effectiveness and ninety nine percent of the organisation it works really well, there is that one percent it might not work well point, and they might actually get in trouble using that advice with the lawyer we can’t afford to do that. We’ve got to make sure that we’re protecting one hundred percent, which means we can’t quite be is aggressive in some ways in other ways we can let organizations and our clients know how we can empower them to let them know what is okay to do and that they should feel comfortable doing it, that it may be part of theirs, their duties in terms of furthering their mission in order to engage in those things. So that’s one of the reasons why, why we wantto have rules so there’s a better understanding of how to play this game of using social media. And, you know, i think, tony, when you play any game, we should read the rules first, right? They understand what you’re doing. My favorite game is monopoly. I don’t like other players to read. The rules just, you know, yeah, i know. And then and then, you know, i have a good eye use the rules of sort of guidelines, and then, you know, i’ll borrow a little from the bank and things like that, you know, at below and at below market rates and things like that let’s go actually into a couple of those things that you talked about borrowing money from the bank, okay? Let’s say, you know, we organize this nationwide effort and have our volunteers go out and create different events fund-raising events in, uh, in different locations throughout the country, on behalf of our organization and furthering our movement. Well, let’s say, we’ve got ten of these things going on in seven go really well, can we gene, can we taken example? I’m thinking of ah, move on dot or ge, they are frequently get their emails, attend an event in manhattan or the bronx or, you know, can somebody in well, they know that i’m in new york, so they don’t ask me to host elsewhere, but they’re certainly doing these things throughout the country. Yeah, and a lot of organizations are now using facebook and and other platforms toe mobilize their supporters throughout the country, right? Okay, so, you know, let’s, say it’s an organization that’s like move on that that’s got a nationwide presence with a lot of supporters throughout, and they’ve got some active people in different locations again, let’s say they’re ten events and seven go without a hitch and raise a lot of money for the organization. But one of the things you asked and when the things you talked about your take two is, are they registered in those states in which the volunteers there suddenly engaging in these fund-raising activities? Because if they’re not, that can get them into trouble, right? Tony, i think you know better than anybody it can is the now the volunteer yeah, they’re volunteer is acting as an agent of the of the organization at that point. Or is that? Is that a question? I think that’s a question and, you know, the more that the organization is telling the volunteer on how to organize the event and what rules should apply to the event and how the money should be collected and forwarded to the charity, i think it looks more and more like it the organization’s event and charity registration has got to be something that considered okay. Now i’m skirting jargon jail. We haven’t talked about jack in jail for weeks. I’m disappointed too many. My guests are plain talking, plain language. I don’t like that like abstruse language talks over everybody’s head. So why don’t you help define define for me? Because i said, are they an agent, but that that actually is a term of art has legal import, doesn’t it? Yeah, so generally an agent is acting on the authority and on behalf of the principal. So if i ask, skew tony and you are except that you’re going to make a donation on my behalf, another charity and i give you the money to make that donation. You’re acting as my agent, your not making your own donate donation of money. You’re donating the money on my behalf. You have certain responsibilities by taking on that relationship. I’m the agent and you’re the principal in that example, correct. So if the charity tells a volunteer agent to start fund-raising them and organizing an event on their behalf, then it’s really the charities event and the volunteers acting as their agent, which means the charity has responsibilities in that jurisdiction. Okay, okay, so the other things that you raised is, well, what if somebody just took off with the money? But if you’ve got a volunteer there but you have no staff presents there and you don’t really know this volunteer, you just sort of engaged with them online, and all of a sudden they’re holding this event for you, and they take off with the money. Now, what happened? What did you do? What? What? Showing a reasonable care did you take to make sure something like that wouldn’t happen then the awful thing is, what if somebody gets hurt at this event and right? And now in this case, it doesn’t even have to be an event that is a solicitation event like maybe we’re just we’re just rallying the troops, but we’re not asking for any money we’re not soliciting, just trying to maybe we’re all watching a video together or it’s some, you know, kind of activist activity, but but no money is changing hands. Go ahead. So something else could happen. Yeah, exactly. Right. So whether it’s just being an educational event, uh and you’ve got some people out there, they’re gathered together under the charity’s name and you know, they’ve gotten together and maybe there weren’t any steps, teo, prevent some risks or maybe it’s like a walkathon, so maybe it is a solicitation event that’s part fun solicitation, but there weren’t these risk management steps that were looked at charity. The cherry didn’t really take any step to make sure that no harm’s could be prevented that were reasonably foreseeable possibilities of that. So those are things that charities have to think about when they start to mobilize their supporters are are the supporters holding their own events? In which case do do those people after register in order to fund raise for another charity? That might be an issue as well? Or is it the charity’s own event, in which case the charity’s got to think about registration and also creating rules of the game again that have to do with holding that event to make sure that the people who attend or the people who have money get solicited are protected? I’ve got two troublemakers on the show today you’re a lot of trouble, gene, you’re asking a lot of questions? Let’s, try toe help with some answers. What? What? What do you know? Right now, we know what we have to think about, but what are we going to do should we not be hosting these events? Or is it cannes insurance help or we need we need written regulations about what volunteers khun do in other places. Where we supposed to do? Yeah, i think we’ve got to figure out first two’s event is it? Is it the charities event? Or is it the individuals that are gathering together that are raising funds on their own? And if they’re raising funds are their own? Are they going to get in trouble? And should we try to help them understand what their responsibilities are in what limitations there are for them to start raising money on their own without being under the umbrella, if you will, of the charity so rules of the game, first who’s event is it, and if the charity has authorized and encouraged it, it should try to protect those people who are going teo organize the event as well as those people were going to attend the event and having rules there instead of just guidelines makes perfect sense to me, you know, you you’re not allowed to, uh, you know, serve alcohol to minors may may seem, you know, very simplistic and obvious, but sometimes when you’ve got volunteers who you’re unaware of, you’ve not screamed, not interviewed them. Um, you’ve got to be really explicit about what’s, okay? And what’s not okay, even if you think it’s obvious. So rules of the game and rules of the event, i think there’s something that you have tohave in-kind also have some people, you know, on the charities staff that or they’re volunteers, if they’re in all volunteer organization really think about risk management of that event, what risks are involved? And should we take steps like having a first date? You know, kid available or having some people there are having a written release and waiver of liability form that all event participants find those air things to think about? And then the charity registration thing on top of that, if it’s an event of any significance, i think you have to really seriously think about that and probably by your book, tony. Okay, or have me register for you. There you go. Now what if the agent doesn’t follow the rules, then? Is the organization protected at least? Well, maybe, maybe not, but what could i have got any colonization playing the agent and sue the agent? But whoever got hurt from that if its a charity, that man is going to kind of everybody. And if the charity has a deeper pocket than the agent and if it’s, you know, just day ah, volunteer who may not have ah, a lot of that worth and the charity may have a deeper pocket, and the plaintiff lawyer will go after the charity in that case and if they’re not register stirred on top of all of this in that state, it’s going to look even worse for the charity in terms of saying, well, you know, we tried our best, and we just didn’t you didn’t weigh had rules, but but the the solicitation was illegal because the charity wasn’t registered in the state. That looks bad. Yeah, your insurance company might, even if you have insurance might say, well, you’re operating illegally. We don’t ensure that well, okay, uh, okay. So we we strayed a little bit from social media, but that’s fine, because we’re talking about events which might be propagated through social media. What about more directly, you know, the advocacy advocacy online? Sure, i mean, i guess he’s a big thing for for non-profits and i’m just a big proponent of non-profits engaging in a lot of advocacy to further their their mission, but social media channels again allow, you know, a lot of questions to rise, like whose message is being sent? You know, we’ve allowed staff members and volunteers in this kind of followship model that that alison is describing in and where everybody’s is contributing, are you going to be sending conflicting messages? And are some of those messages going toe actually be attributed to the organization and not be a communication of the type that the organization is allowed to do? Like an election eri and communication worth jargon jail right durney election hearing endorsing a political candidate which a five a one c three cannot do, but an individual can do so it gets a little grey when an individual uses an account that has the organisation’s name somehow attached, whose account is it? And is that communication? Ok, ok, but what about i mean, alison was sort of seeking feedback from from the community, i mean suppose someone uses their own account to post something on the organization’s facebook page or or points ah, address is a post on twitter to the organization that i mean that’s what the person’s using their own account? Yeah, i mean, would that be ok, though? That’s the organization is not responsible for that one, is it? Even if it’s just on their facebook pages, somebody else posted it? Well, let’s think about that. What? What if it was a really defamatory statement against somebody? Or what if it was endorsing a candidate for political office, tony and the organization has control of that facebook pages being able to delete that comment out of there, should they do it? Or should they just let it sit there? My my feeling is conservatively, you’re going to want to delete something that would be illegal if the charity had posted it itself. Obviously, you don’t want to show opinions and participation of your supporters on the facebook page, but you don’t want, you know, people the flame or defame others, and you certainly don’t want, uh, charity metoo attributed with endorsing candidates or engaging in some sort of private benefit that that benefit thie organizations, insiders. Those can all get the organization into a lot of trouble. We’ve got to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back, jean run, and i will keep talking about the social media boundaries. And i’ve got some live listener love for the korean peninsula. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back on io haserot for soul, young son and day, john korea on your haserot. Dahna. As i said last week, especially south korea, in our thoughts, lots of saber rattling, you know, i saw i saw seventy something interviewed, and he said, the north is just like a schoolyard bully. It’s, no big deal. Andan. I saw a twenty something interviewed, who said she was nervous and pays attention to where exits are. When she’s, when she’s in buildings. So, anyway, are our thoughts are with you, south korea jane. Let’s, let’s see about okay, so let’s, continue with this online. The all these questions about online your you think that? Ah, non-profit should delete things that it wouldn’t be able to print or ah, post itself on, say, facebook or twitter? Yeah, i think it depends on the channel that you’re using. Sometimes you’ve got listservs where you’ve got a charity, that’s decided not to moderate the contact content, but put in disclaimers that might be one set of rules that applies. But with your facebook account, i think you’ve got to be be careful, especially if it’s a page that’s under the control of the charity, if their comments on there again, that would be hurtful to the charity or hurtful toe. Others that’s something that you might think about the leading, and if it’s obviously going to be in violation of of laws, you’re going to want to report it. You know, it’s against facebook zone privacy or policies as well, but to protect the organization, i think that’s really important, and that gets into what we were talking about earlier about defamatory statements, um, could also be is like harassment? Yeah, absolutely. So you’ve got to be careful, there’s. Some sometimes employees or even managers will use social media channels now to communicate with their people that report to them and got to be very, very careful that they’re not sending messages that if they communicated in real life or by email. This is not all of a sudden. Better because it’s being broadcast on social media. Aren’t there also issues around posting other people’s content? Either me either an excerpt or even just linking to it let’s talk about that? Yeah, it’s a great question. Tony gets a little bit confusing when we’re talking about copyrights on copyright protection there a lot of non-profits out there that are just accepting from other sites and thinking that as long as you attribute that that source that it’s okay, and that might not just be content written content, but that could be photos and music as well. The company presentation, you got to be careful because somebody else owns that content, and just because they’ve published it on the web doesn’t mean they’ve given free permission for anybody else to copy and use it so that can get organizations into trouble. There are some some exceptions for fair use, uh, which might involve charity or commentary or criticism on sometimes for non-profit educational purposes, but that can get really big. Ah non-profits really want to know what they’re doing when they are borrowing or accepting content from other sites or from other individuals, and then suddenly posting it on their own and again, even with attribution that that may not be sufficient. Yeah, attribution doesn’t hear it. So you’ve got to make sure that either you’ve gotten written permission to use that content or you’re using it in a fair way that would not create an infringement liability issue. Okay, but those fair, those fairways, those those are the exceptions that you were talking about in fair use and they’re pretty pretty well defined. Well, not so well defined. Well, ok, they’re specific categories. Yeah, and they’re definitely enforced in different ways in different jurisdictions. So if you just read, you know, website resource on fair use don’t rely on that, but i do encourage all non-profits if you are borrowing or accepting or commenting on other people’s content and putting it up on your own sites to make sure you understand what the rules are, so do look some good, you know, reputable web resources for that and then move on from there in california, we’ve got an organization called public counsel that’s got excellent information on copyright and fair use, and i think other other states organisations could probably look at that stuff as well, because some of the state laws will be similar and just get a general idea of what the rules are and that’s a public counsel c o u n c l e that’s, right. Okay, just a couple of minutes left before we have to go away. Gene. So if there is a violation or something you’re you’re just concerned about you talked about deleting the post, what else should we be conscious of? Well, i think the important thing, especially on a governance levels way talk about board board duties now, tony is the board to develop a social media policy for the organization, so now they think and delegate the drafting out to management, but to have a social media policy and to make sure that everybody using social media on behalf of the organization understands what the rules are and what the risks are, because those those volunteers and supporters want to do good things for the organisation for its missions, they don’t want to go get the organization into trouble, but what happens is oftentimes they just don’t know what the rules and risks are, so educating them through a policy have guidelines for sure, but also have solid rule in place that don’t allow them to. Do things that would violate the law think that’s critical, just like thirty seconds left. Jean how about apologizing on the site where the violation occurred? Sometimes i can work, some sometimes can get you into more trouble, so you know, sometimes you’re just during the pot even more tomorrow how allison’s, where then? And that can create more more divisions, so it sort of look at it on a case by case basis. Look, a senior management, the american red cross put out a tweet before that says this was a rogue treat that says, when we drink, we do it right getting withered. This was a mistake, somebody using their personal account and thought they thought they were using their personal count. Instead, the american red cross account american red cross immediately came up with an apology that said, we’ve deleted the road treat, but rest assured the red cross this sober and we’ve confiscated the keys, humor, apology and everything worked out just fine. All important points to keep in mind. Social media is not just a wild west gene takagi principle of neo, you’ll find his block at non-profit law blogged dot com, you’ll find him. On twitter at gt a kg tech gene, thank you very much. My pleasure to talk to you again next month. Got some final live listener love teo taiwan we don’t know the city, but taiwan welcome and ni hao next week a conversation with amy sample ward reduction part do we’re talking about her new book co authored book social change? Anytime everywhere we started last month and there’s more to cover about your fund-raising calendar and social media. Andi, i’m hoping for a special appearance by tim amy’s, dad hoping we can get him to call in like to have a little fun with tim sample we’re all over the social web can’t make a click without lador a spark a testa trying to say, smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio pinterest for example, i’ve got boards for the show and my blogged my favorite board on pinterest, though that i’ve got is women leading non-profits lots of videos of female non-profits ceos like abby falik of global citizen year and marry in wright edelman of the children’s defense fund. If you can suggest some that are missing, please do our creative producer is claire. Meyerhoff sam liebowitz is our line producer, but not today. Today, the line producer is janice taylor. We don’t have an assistant producer, but we struggled through. Janis filled both roles. 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Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what you’re born. Teo you society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic. I want to go what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio, dot com. Every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights, nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking.

Nonprofit Radio, March 26, 2013: Discover Your Brand & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Nadia Christina Tuma
Nadia Tuma
Nadia Tuma: Discover Your Brand

Nadia Tuma is a brand innovation strategist with clark | mcdowall. Your brand goes much deeper than logo and tagline. What’s the process to discover your brand strategy? Once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and I will discuss.

 
 
 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler returns. He’s our tech contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. What content should you post for consumption and where should you put it? How do you start your content marketing? Scott and I will discuss.

 
 
 
Both segments have survey questions. Please take a moment to answer three quick questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.
 
 
 

Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey , the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://tony.ma/Zpjgmr


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Metoo hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. I want to wish you cog, posca, so make i hope i’m saying happy easter in, i’m trying to say happy easter in hebrew and ah and happy passover in italian is born passat born peskay it’s march twenty ninth, two thousand thirteen and i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be disgusted to hear that you had missed irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explained, the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix the problems we talked about the common mistakes and what to do and compensation clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the san francisco law group, the non-profit and exempt organizations group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if camp is excessive? And what’s that automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t properly disclose benefits. We did a mock board meeting and i walked out remember i had sound effects and everything. I’m amusing myself if you refuse to be amused. I’m amusing myself last week. I want to make something clear. Last week i had said that gary vaynerchuk, gary v you may know him as had been on last week, which would’ve been two weeks ago. He was scheduled to but he had to reschedule for may. Well, have him in may and i just want to make it clear i was not drinking last week. I had recorded the show many weeks ago, back when gary was still going to keep his promise. But then he broke his promise, but he made up for it. We love we love gary. I’m just getting gary in case any of his entourage is listening. We like gary v and he’s coming this week. Discover your brand nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark i mcdowell that’s not an eye there’s no period it’s clark vertical line mcdonnell that’s very dramatic clark vertical line, vertical mcdonald, your brand i’m glad not he’s laughing. She hopefully realizes that i wrote this copy. So i know it’s, not an eye. Your brand goes much deeper than logo in tagline i hope you recognize that what’s the process to discover your brand strategy. And once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and i will discuss all that also content marketing scott koegler returns he’s, our regular tech contributor the editor of non-profit technology news what content should you post for consumption? And where should you be putting it? How do you start your content? Marketing scott and i will discuss that between the guests on tony’s take two planned giving is part of your fund-raising team that’s what’s on my block this week, i’ve got some simple ways that planned giving can support the rest of your fund-raising my pleasure now to welcome and introduce nadia christina touma she’s, a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdonnell i guess you know it’s probably supposed to articulate the vertical line. It was an ampersand you’d say clark end, but it’s not supposed to be clark vertical line mcdonnell just clark macdonald that’s where she’s an a brand strategy innovation ist her work is creating and revitalizing brands in our swiftly changing world. She’s on the faculty of the school of visual arts, s via the masters in branding program, where she teaches brand strategy. She has worked with non-profits such as slow food and why i see in the pittsburgh concert society and in college at carnegie mellon university. She had a minor in piano performance, and we’re going to talk a little about that, too. Nadia touma, welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. Glad to see you laughing already. Very good. Um, co-branding i think there’s a lot of misconceptions about what a brand is. What? What? What is branding? Well, that is a very good question. First one out of the box. Alright. Alright. Complimentary. You could stay the whole hour. With pleasure. Ah, i often get that question. A lot of people don’t quite know what branding is. I have a lot of confusion even within my family and my closest friends there. Not sure exactly what i d’oh. I think the best way to describe branding is to define it as what? It’s not co-branding is not. Ah, brand strategy is not marketing it’s, not advertising its not a logo it’s, not pr. It is actually the foundation. And the strategy is really the backbone of all of those things that it will then effect. So, you know, a brand strategy consists of things like a mission, a vision, reasons for being the dna of what a company and its products stand for you. And then all of those marketing pr efforts are executions off that strategy. All right? And then you have to maintain your strategy once you’ve once you’ve devised it well, not only maintain that’s very important maintain, but also stay relevant and state different. So it requires connection to the world connection to your consumer. You know, the world is not stagnant, and neither should have brand be stagnant. S o you have a very solid foundation, but you have to move with the times as well. Now, how do world renowned brands like apple? You know, nike, how did they create that that aura around them? And you just say apple and people think of steve jobs, and they think of beautiful design and innovation and slightly expensive products. But how did they how did they had to create that well, that’s, really the magic question and that’s, why people like me exist which is to help companies really create that magic, but at a very fundamental level there are couple characteristics that make a brand very strong, one of which is its first of all, that it’s relevant, that it’s relevant to people’s, lives to companies, lives. Another important characteristic is that its distinctive so it has to be relevant. But it also needs to be somewhat unique um, and somewhat special in a way that the delights people there’s also another really wonderful thing that strong brands do, which is they defined categories, and they almost shift culture in a way. So if you think about really strong brands like apple, for instance, you know they’ve really changed the way we interact with the world, with music, with movies, with people, you know, and those very, very strong brands are able to almost do that and shifting culture, which is really cool. All right, so let’s, let’s, bring this to the to the small and midsize non-profit level. You talked about a lot of things in developing the brand strategy, but so let’s let’s. Try to flush this out. How do you how do you start? Toe create your strategy. What? What you want to be? Yeah, and that’s oftentimes the biggest challenges actually understanding. What is it? What is our reason for being? Why do we exist? And that’s challenging? Because a lot of times there might be differing opinions or different objectives within an organization within a midsize non-profit but but every non-profit has a mission statement almost always go to the home page it’s a simple pull down it’s right there in front. They all have a mission and you in a vision. So, isn’t that. Isn’t that the basis or there might even be some the differences of opinion? Despite that? Yeah, i know a lot of times the mission statement it could have been written by, you know, someone who founded it years ago, and it may not be as relevant or the way in which it’s interpreted might not be consistent across people who are making decisions everyday within that organization. Eso when we think about a mission statement it’s, you know, it’s sort of a first level and that needs to be agreed upon, of course, but from there there other components like understanding who were retargeting what’s our consumer, our audience, you know, what exactly do we offer, even from not just a functional standpoint, but an emotional standpoint, even if you’re just a midsize non-profit that’s all very important. S o sometimes mission statements, vision statements are written without those components in mind. And so that’s what needs to be really fleshed out internally, say, a little more about the emotion? Yeah, so you know every organization, whether you know, whether you’re lady gaga or your you know, proctor and gamble, you’re offering functional things, so you’re offering toilet paper or you’re offering entertainment and music, but you’re also offering, and i don’t think lady gaga uses ivory, so probably not right. I don’t think she uses anything anyone else used, but from an emotional standpoint, you also have to deliver something right brands need to make you feel something on dh. So even if your say, you know a local music organization that promotes local talent, there needs to be something emotional that the audience gets from using you. Otherwise you become just purely functional, and a purely functional offering is not a complete brand and we can articulate all the all this i mean, we can pull all this into ah ah, cohesive statement and understanding among all our different constituents are bored are our staff are sea level people, the people who are benefiting from our services, whether they’re students or or the homeless way? Yeah, absolutely. And what’s actually critical when you’re implementing ah, brand vision or a brand strategy is to get buy in from every level of the organization. So everyone who’s doing the accounting? Teo being a spokesperson, teo, you know, being the ceo all need to believe it’s it’s the difference i often tell my students it’s a difference between interacting with a customer service representative it zappos, who clearly believes in the brand to buying something at duane reade and interacting with the checkout person, okay? Or maybe state government, maybe that’s all right, that’s a good example of the other end of the day. Yeah, okay. We’re gonna take a break. We’re going to dive more into detail about how to develop your strategy, what that process is about. So now he has certainly stays with me. And i hope that you do too talking. Alternative radio. Twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service, sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com buy-in durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got tons of live listener love china so well represented. Young jang kun ming chung ching, shanghai, shenyang, wuhan. I’ve been to wuhan and i’ve been to shanghai. Shi on is not there. I was in shi on to where she on left fans behind and she on i thought. But china chinese ni hao. Very nice to have you with us and seoul, korea and day. John korea. Very nice to have you with us on your haserot here in the u s new york, new york. Welcome, smithtown, new york. Welcome. Will smith times at long island, i think i think it’s long island welcome live listen, love tto all those live listeners and more to come. Okay, nadia touma. We’re talking about the importance of branding here. By the way, when you become a partner in your firm, i want you to tell them you want an ampersand before your name. Okay? Not the verdict. I don’t care what kind of equity they offer you a share in the corporate jet. You want not the vertical line. You want to be end too much, really? The memo percent um okay, let’s, go let’s, get into this process a little. Now all these all these constituents need to be involved. You mention from accountants to board members at sea level. Bonem what do we what do we start this this process with if we want to develop our brand well, there’s, just like they’re possibly dozens of definitions of what brand strategist do there’s also many ways in which a process khun begin. I’ll tell you my personal perspective. I truly i truly believe that partnering with whoever you’re working with is incredibly important. So getting together say, your ah brand strategy agency or you’re working on your own, getting together with that client and really sitting down and understanding what’s the issue what’s at stake what do your objectives try to understand? What’s our goal and together as a team really outline what a success look like. You know, it’s really define what those girls look like and parameters, you know, what’s what can we change what’s off limits? You know what can we not touch from there? I think it’s really important to get the perspectives of a lot of different stakeholders within that. Organization and try to understand is there are other inconsistencies among them in terms of what the mission is, what the vision is. Do they see the company going in different directions? Do they see in a different place in five years? What are the different strengths and weaknesses that various parties see? Understanding even that is an insight is to understand what’s our current situation. You know where the inconsistencies, where the commonalities and from there, we can start to create a common goal. So there’s a lot of conversation, a lot of interviewing focus groups. Is that is that it was that all part of this? Well, focus groups come a little bit later. So once you do wanna interview internally and understand what’s going on within, because the change will have to happen from within. So getting a good read on that is really the first step. Okay on, i did survey listeners before the show on dass cked in the past five years, have you given considerable thought to your brand strategy? A little more than half said yes. About close to sixty percent said yes. And then about fourteen percent said no and about a third said, i’m not sure what brand strategy means i better listen to the show, so i hope those listen, i hope you’re on. I hope they’re either in china, japan or smith down listening, all right, but no more than half have feel that they have given a lot of thought within the past five years. Well, i think in the past five years, there’s been a sea change in the perspective of brand strategy. I’ve seen it absolutely well, i think that brand i mean it’s still a nebulous term that clearly people aren’t quite sure what it means. I think that there’s been quite a shift recently in going going from financial measures on ly in terms of measuring success to trying to build in metrics that measure the quality of your brand as well. I think cmos and ceos are recognizing the importance of having a strong brand in addition to the bottom line. Now, cmo is a very common term for you, but here on the show we have drug in jail on i would hate wade. You have a female ward for for george in jail offenders cmo so that all the listeners know what you’re talking about, chief marketing officer excellent does a lot of non-profits certainly don’t have cme owes a lot of this falls right on the executive director or maybe a communications and marketing staff but might not be a chief marketing officer. All right, so we’ve gathered all this information from all the different constituents, and i think including importantly, people who are benefiting from the work that we do a zay said earlier, whether they’re students or they’re the hungry who you’re feeding the batter to your sheltering them in there, they’re certainly included, we have all this information. Now what? How do we coalesce this what we’re looking for, right? So i think that once we’ve understood what’s going on internally, we want to then turn r r face toe to the outside world and understand who are we affecting? So is that the hungry? Is that students and decide who was it really that were after? And i don’t mean after in a predatory sense, i mean, in terms of who’s, our audience, who are we trying to read? That’s actually an incredibly important part of it to really define that target audience on and i don’t just mean to finding it in terms of demographics, so you hear a lot of terms thrown around, like males eighteen to thirty four or moms with kids or the baby boomers. The reality of it is that each of those groups has shades and shades of different types of people so it’s more important to understand. Are you looking at moms with kids who are into organic food or, you know, are you looking at males eighteen to thirty four who are married and, you know, working full time or are things like that that that add texture to who you’re looking at and then it’s important to understand? Let me ask you when you’re doing that? Do you ever devise hypothetical people? Absolutely had guests? I’ve had two guests in the past. You have talked about that for in terms of marketing strategy. Yeah, about that oh, that’s. Incredibly important. So we call them creating personas on dh it’s. Really? It’s it’s wonderful to do with clients. Because i think one of the pitfalls of working all the time with inman organization is you start to see your audience as a number or, you know, a cell. In an exception, a stereotype of some complete stereotype and it’s. Amazing to see the way in which top level executives will react. Teo very well fleshed out persona and what i mean by persona is outlining the person as if they truly were a person. What do they like to do in their free time? What brands do they use in other categories? That’s incredibly important. What’s their education level. Where did they go to school? Where do they like to vacation? And you really bring that person toe life and they become someone that is relatable. And in that sense, i think you create better solutions, theun just saying, while we need to increase exp i twenty five percent and why by sixteen percent do you give those personas? Name’s? Vivian? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And a lot of work goes into that is, well, really the name? Yeah, sure. We’re okay. All right, all right. So i made you tigress labbate because that’s interesting cause the other guests i said have made the same point sabat so we’re coalescing this invention that we’re going outside. Are we doing interviews with with these potential personas? Were trying to meet people who fit the description of these different personas absolutely, i think that the most important thing to do is to talk to your consumer, and it’s really brings it to life. You, khun do surveys. My personal preference is to go out into the world and really interact with who you’re going to be speaking with on dh that could be done in a variety of ways. So ethnography zehr quite popular, and that means don’t get into that jail again, jack in jail ethnography xero when you go into the audience is natural habitat really so to speak? So if you’re studying, you know the way in which people consume alcohol, you might be going to bars or their homes before they go out. If you’re, you know, studying perhaps skin care, you might go and observe someone shopping for skin care. So you really want teo me? Clearly, it won’t be a pure experience because you’re their jotting down notes and you know, you’re obviously observing, but you do get to see those those nuances that you might you might not get if you’re in a focus group facility. Not to say that those air not incredibly valuable because they are one of the things you get from focused group that you don’t get in other types of qualitative research is that you get social interaction, so you’re watching people react to things, and then maybe another person says something that sparks another thing, and then someone else builds on that and you start to get these incredibly rich insights from whatever stimulus you’re bringing in. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdole, which you’ll find on the web at clark with no, no, eat the end. Mcdowell, m, c d o w a l l clark macdonald, dot com what types of questions are you asking these people? Well, that all really depends. It depends on the objectives of what you’re trying to find out. So if you’re if you’re doing just straight consumer package good type research such as skin care, alcohol or you nutrition shake or something of that nature you’re trying to understand really the needs behind it. One of the things that is let’s think let’s, bring it to a non-profit sure you’ve worked with a music and arts group in the past. Yes, i suppose it is. A small arts group. What what? What are we trying to find out from their their their constituents? Eso for example, for this small arts organization that i worked with, they sponsored and showcased local classical musicians in a recital setting. And they were having an issue with their audience. There wasn’t enough of coming to these recitals. So really it’s it’s not just saying, why are people not coming to a recital? That’s sort of just scratching at the surface? What you really want to try to understand or what are those unmet needs that is, is prohibiting them from coming, right? So what are those barriers that miss making people do something else rather than come here? And i think that’s really actually across the board what you want to find out and that’s incredibly challenging because people don’t know what they don’t want. So it’s very hard for them to tell you what they’re looking for, why they chose something else, exactly, or its group or a college why they chose it. Okay, so how do you start to get to this s o that’s? Really? Where the art meets the science it’s really that’s when you have to really sit down and create a solid methodology, and what that means is you really need to thaw. I almost think about what you’re trying to get first and work your way backwards. So if i’m trying to understand, you know what is really driving? Ah, consumer, not to go to our side and go to a football game instead really try to break that down in a way that gets sort of a roundabout way to get to them. You would never ask them. Why are you going to the football game rather than the recital? You’re trying to understand it a deeper level? What is that that makes them feel fulfilled? What is it that makes them feel happy with their free time? And then you have to do a lot of the back work to fill in those gaps. This is very esoteric. It’s. We call them leaps there you really have? Tio i almost asked around the question and look at that negative space in a way, and then make those connections to understand what’s missing. Okay, so all right, so now you’ve got your internal constituents, your external constituents. You’ve made some leaps. In judgment, there must be some kind of testing of what of the leaps that you’ve made, and the the early conclusion that you’re starting to draw? Absolutely. And this is when you bring it all together. So as you said, we spoke internally. We understood what was going there. We understand what’s going on in the outside world. And then now you need to bring it together and say, okay, what makes sense here if we have x and y parameters internally and this is what success looks like? And then this is the opportunity that we’re seeing in the outside world. How do we marry the two? How do we make a solution that makes sense given constraints, opportunities, but the organization and then what we see, as you know that that really juicy white space in the outside trying to bridge this gap you are between opportunity and on reality. Exactly. Okay, and so a lot of times, what will happen is you might have you might find these incredibly lofty, wonderful opportunities out in the world. And then what ends up happening is you do have to bring them down to earth based on what’s, actually. Possible on then. So there’s a process of testing on then what? What’s the end result of all this that’s a great question. Another one? Yeah, two out of twenty five. So it can take the shape of any number of things so it might end up being just a brief, you know, a word documentary, power point dahna document or it could be something that’s a little bit more of emmanuel, but essentially, what you’re giving is a set of guidelines. So, you know, you you should recount the journey that you’ve taken with the client so they can see how do we get here? You know, what does that look like? And then once you’ve told that story, you outlined things like, ok, what is our positioning mission vision statement? What does it look like when we apply that to our pr? What does that look like when we apply that to our visual identity? How do we talk about ourselves? All of these sorts of sort of guidelines to help you talk about that strategy that you’ve created? How do we talk about ourselves in terms of actual words and maybe stories that we tell or or things like that? Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s, all those executions i talked about at the beginning of our conversation. You know, what is advertising look like? What is marketing look like? Not from a here is a an ad, but thank you. Here are here’s a type of language you should be using here. The types of colors you should be using. The tone, the personality, all of these things that affect the way someone might interpret your brand. How do you feel that, uh, musical performance overlaps with with the work that you’re doing? How does that inform your work? Well, i would say that generally speaking toe work and brand, you just have to be curious. Keep your eyes open, be interested in a lot of different things because you have to make a lot of esoteric connections all the time. So music is just one of those other things that sort of opens your eyes and ears and fingers and a very different way exactly. And share what? What it is that you love about the work that doings. Clearly, you enjoy it very much. Very passionate about it. What? What is it that moves you? About what you’re doing, you know it, it’s it’s incredibly interesting because you are studying people and you’re studying societies and how people feel about things and make decisions, you know, ultimately, companies really are creating products and services for a changing world, and that means that you have to study the world and study interactions and connection and what you love about all that it’s incredibly interesting to be a part of and does the nature of the business is you’re always working on a different type of industry and a different type of consumer. So you’re always learning, you know, deeply about a lot of different types of things, thanks very much for being a guest, not here. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdowell at clark mcdowell dot com right now we take a break, and when we come back tony’s take two about plant e-giving as part of your fund-raising team. And then scott koegler returns and he and i are going to talk about content marketing. Stay with me. You couldn’t do anything to getting dink dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him! Nothing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team i’ve got there five strategies for using planned giving to help other parts of your fund-raising there’s no reason that plan giving should be silo or blackbox. It should be supporting all your different fund-raising methods on you will fund, for instance, when you’re meeting a planned e-giving prospect, certainly you want to know ahead of time whether they participate in the annual fund and if they have been giving annually, you want to thank them and if it’s appropriate asked them for an increased gift to the annual fund if they’re not participating annually. It’s appropriate to ask why? Maybe there’s objections that you can help to overcome and and find a new annual donor that’s one that’s one way of helping the annual fund corporate support, maybe corporate sponsorship if you know in advance or you learn in the meeting, that person works for a company asking about the possibility of corporate sponsorship. Not that they would be the decision maker, but maybe they’ll make the introduction to who the decision maker is and that entree is always valuable now than being strictly a cold call to that office. So there are lots of ways that plan giving khun support other types of fund-raising i’ve got more ideas on my block. The post is called planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team and that’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty ninth of march, the thirteenth show of the year. Where did march go before we bring scott on? I want to send more live listener love we’ve got guangzhou, china and nokia, finland and porta vallarta, mexico. Now, if i can figure out if we can identify those cities, how come it’s united kingdom? Why is that? We don’t even know the country and uk? Yeah, you well show you irish english, we don’t know what i’m going to say you’re you’re welsh because that’s the least likely so welcome from wales and if you’re not in wales, why is your what is your identity, your location being masked? We don’t want your street address, but certainly country would be nice, scott koegler welcome, i’m doing terrific, scott koegler we know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it and p tech news, dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor, and this month we’re talking about content marketing what do we mean? Marketing? Yeah, what do we mean by this? You know, i actually for a different name for that, i call it authority marketing because it’s really, you know, you’re trying to, uh, trying to put for information about things that you know about your so you’re asserting your authority and you’re letting the people that you talk to, hopefully that read, whatever it is you’re doing, i know that you are authoritative on then the short part of that is that you’re not really selling, although, you know, being an authority and something means that hopefully people will come to you when they need answers and when they need services and products, i see that that’s what we’re talking about, okay, authority marking is a little more more descriptive and and what would a, uh, what types of things would non-profit want to be demonstrating authority in? Well, you know, the short answer there is the things that the non-profit is about so the cause the methodologies they’re using again any anything that they that they know about so that’s kind of across the board for non-profits and also for-profit type organizations. But non-profits can talk about just all the things that they do. So it’s, you know, it’s putting forth your message in a non marketing kind of away. Okay, so you and i have talked in the past about surveying people to find out what their interests are. There might be value in doing that to find out what about your work or related to your work interests them? Sure, sure. You know, you always want to get feedback from your constituents. And sometimes you get feedback from from a survey. That’s that’s a very good way to go. You know that your percentage of respondents varies all over the place. You know, i’ve had i’ve had anywhere from one percent. Twenty percent response rate course, twenty percent is great. But it’s it’s tough to achieve. Yeah, has to be something very, very interesting to them. And you might heat, you know, so that maybe a second or third generation of your of your survey, you know, kind of homes in on those issues now, but you know, another way to get feedback on what’s interesting is to get feedback on as comments on articles that you post in a block and those you generally get significantly less percentage, but those are typically more insightful. They’re more direct, you know, you know that they’re interested in that particular topic because, well, they read the article on they’re responding to it. So it’s very good way to get get responses. Now you have an article at n p tech news dot com, which says that only we have a number of articles, of course, a couple you do, but this one specifically says that sixty nine percent of non-profits are not blogging. Yeah isn’t in that stunning in this age of every you know, every schoolkid has a blogger and, you know, uh, it’s tough to imagine that, you know, almost, uh, almost three quarters, certainly two thirds of non-profits are not putting out a block, so, you know, i won’t say shame on them, but shame on well and our listeners are consistent with that. One of the poll questions i ask before the show is is your non-profit blogging at least. Twice a month that’s not even very common, but i made it a low threshold twice a month and seventy one percent said no interest. Only fourteen percent said yes, the other fourteen percent they didn’t know. So this is very consistent, actually with with what your article is just within a couple of points dahna way believe that the block is a good place for all this content. How do you do get started with your block? If you’re in that sixty nine or seventy one percent is not doing it. I will say that it’s not surprising that the number is so high because even though the technology for putting together a blogger is really easy and really available and even free and i’ll talk about the specifics in just seconds, the time to do the blog’s is a very scarce commodity. You no way talk about operations and and events and all the things that have to go into a non-profit and there are a couple of things that are critical to writing a block one is the time to write the second thing is the ability to write, you know, cogent phrases and just, you know makes things that are right, things that are interesting on getting somebody to actually be consistent. So those three things are, you know, probably the killer’s toe actually producing a block on a consistent basis. So that’s one thing that’s this very difficult, overcome and that’s why a lot of organizations or maybe something not as many as we might think, actually hyre out there blogging, and they get professional writers or managers to produce content for them and manage the the website, the block, whatever it’s called and send for them, you could try soliciting content from your constituents could, whether they’re the people benefiting from your work. Or maybe if you’re a bigger organization, maybe some of your employees can contribute. I don’t have to be writing right could be video absolutely there’s all kinds of different blogging tools now one of them and we’ll just kind a segway into this. Yeah, you know what? We talked earlier about pinterest that was a couple months ago on dh pinterest, you know, i mean it’s really a blocking platform, but it is a way to put out dahna typically images or videos of of information that’s of interest to the organization and to the constituents. Another one that you well, let’s, step on pinterest, pinterest is not all that time consuming. Because you can be. You can upload your own content, but you can also be out on the web. You find something that’s interesting, relevant to your work. You you just pin it to a board using the earl. Great it’s it’s. Very quick and easy. The good thing about it is that it it keeps it can keep a consistent exposure. Uh, that if there’s a negative, i would say that it’s it really is not generally original content. It’s something that you you found and shared, right? Right. But it’s it’s bad, but it’s not really blogging, right? No. Right. But it’s jemaine to your work. And could be interesting to your constituents who are interested in the work that you do, right. And what you just said there is, you know, being interesting to constituents. That’s really the key to any of these you’re you’re content curator of of content, and you become an authority, hopefully within your within your sphere, right? I think, you know, tend to touch on that authority issue if you’re if you’re pinning some content that’s not your own, uh, that maybe, you know, kind of the reverse of becoming the authority. Okay, you’re a curator and that’s a good thing. So you’re bringing things of interest, but you haven’t really added to the authorities factor. So somebody who’s actually interested in what you pinned is just going to click on that pin and jump to the site. That weird originated, so i’d be careful of their, you know, but it is a place to get exposure. All right? Let’s, talk about the block you had. You have some suggestions about getting started with blogging? Yeah. One of them you talked about was was tumbler and tumbler is, i guess, it’s a version of interest and that it’s, highly visual. Um, but you actually can post content there. You can also curate it and post. So on it’s a free it’s, a free resource. You could just create a account you can upload pictures of your events. You can upload text about whatever it is that you’re doing. So so that’s. Ah, relatively easy way to get in. It’s, it’s, inexpensive and fur and supposes cheap on dh free i think? Yeah. Okay. And that’s t u m b l r write the word tumbler without the okay. Okay, so, yeah, i would suggest that maybe uneasy. Wait for an organisation to get in where there really isn’t any there’s. No overhead. It’s, quick and easy, todo. Now, wordpress is very popular, but that’s that’s maura, traditional type written blogged, right. Uh, correct. Right. Word press is probably the white, most rightly used blogging platform, although there are plenty of others but that that could be for you can actually do a you can set up your own wordpress block account by going tio it’s. Um, we’re press dot com, actually. And you could get the free option and start with that. And so you can set that up and you can actually just start to write articles. You can write the articles right within wordpress and just click save and it’s published so it’s very, very simple todo right there there are elaborate wordpress blog’s but you don’t have to shoot me not to start. You certainly shouldn’t start there. You start seeing i would say start with just the three one and go from there add content had pictures. If you have videos, you could do, those two do. Although the free site has restrictions on, you know how much you can actually upload and save to the site. Okay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we’ll talk a little about maybe creating cem video, that’s, that’s, simple to do, because that could be compelling authority marketing. Now i’ve had to change. The name of the segment accommodates got from content marketing now already marketing that’s. Ok, i’m flexible, you flexible, dammit! All right, we could take a break. You stay with us, scott will, and i hope you do, too. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com that’s, monte t m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oh! Welcome back. Tokyo, japan, fukuoka and metallica, japan welcome konnichi wa. Very nice to have you with us. New york, new york and memphis, tennessee live listener love and our listener in the united kingdom. We sussed you out. You tried to hide, but we learned that you are in manchester, england. So not welsh after all, which you may be pleased to hear that you’re not welsh. Well, you could be welsh, but listening from manchester but probably not. So we found you despite your efforts. Teo cloak on. Be deceptive. All right, scott koegler let’s, talk a little about video because video, you know, you and i have talked about this before, it doesn’t have to be high production phones that take shoot video are so common you could arm your employees or your other constituents with the phone, maybe at an event or maybe just on their own. This could be good authority, content authority, marketing, absolutely. And it’s uh, sometimes actually, most of the time, it turns out to be very current because the videos, as you just mentioned a lot of time, shot with their with their cellular cell phones with their smartphones, and we’re even just any kind of digital camera now takes video. Uh, of course, the smartphones. You, khun, take the video posted almost live on, you know, the face of people like to see themselves and people that they know so particularly had events. I saw one organization that recently kind of they turned around the old thing about putting the the, you know, the throwaway camera on the table? Yeah. And they put a card on the table that says, use your cell phone, uh, shoot a video and uploaded here, and they got i think they were just overwhelmed. They think they’ve got a couple of hundred up loads. So, you know, that’s good and bad, right? How do you use and select the ones that you wanted? But it did. It proved the point that it was a very popular option and something that people would engage with immediately. So just kind of take that idea further. What do you do with that? Um, you can either download those those videos and create a kind of a montage using your own software, or you don’t have to do that. You can actually use tools within youtube to, uh to mash up your videos on create, you know, kind of an overview doesn’t have to be ah long or complex or even, you know, two super high quality just paste a bunch of pieces together, right? You to diligently, of course, youtube has editing editing tools right now. There’s a sight that we know one listener maria simple likes because we know maria because she’s, a regular contributor and you talked about this site almost a year ago on a moto for video. Exactly an emoto is great. Um and, uh, i mean, what it does is it allows you to use both video and still images and create a you know, we’ll call it a video, and it actually is a video. Even if you have images there, uh, there’s basically photos, and it does very complex transitions. You can overlay text on it. You can overlay background music on becomes very engaging. So, you know, in a matter of probably ten minutes, you can produce one of these things. Yeah. Maria maria has been using it for a non-profit that she volunteers with, but she heard about it from you first. And like i said now, it’s been close to a year she’s using it all right? And we’re just, you know, a free tool that’s simple to use and, you know, sort of quick and dirty video that can be can be moving or informative, right, exactly an authoritative and that, again, just the good kind of go back to that word that’s really, what we’re trying to do here is to increase the believability that you’re just you’re not just somebody out there trying to raise a few bucks for, for who knows what you know, but you are actually an organization. You have a purpose, you know what you’re talking about, and it gives the people that you’re communicating with something teo grab onto teo to associate with and maybe even to, you know, get it personally and personal involvement with well, there you go, that’s that’s what this is all that we were trying to engage, we’re trying to have a connection, a dialogue so that you become affiliated with the work well aware of the work and then hopefully become affiliated with the organization, maybe as a volunteer, maybe as a donor, maybe just as a spokesperson and an advocate on the web right? Absolutely. And you know right back to the blogging section. And you mentioned, you know, get some of your constituents, your volunteers, whatever to to contribute content. If you have a relatively large organisation, you have a much better chance of getting, you know, five or ten individuals who are able to contribute something. If you could get them each to contribute something every two months, even you’d have a you have something to become consistent with. Consistency is one of those things that really counts. Okay, on dh there’s, your there’s, your sort of army of advocates and and volunteers. I mean, you may never make that. You may never meet the people, but if they’re contributing content once in a while, they’re supporting your work. Exactly. Exactly. We did have a correction for you, scott. The forward press sight is its wordpress dot or ge. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, i got sign up. Dot wordpress, dot com uh, so if you want to go directly to the sign up, but you’re right, wordpress dot or ge is where you go first. I am sorry. Okay? That’s okay. Okay. No, no, no. All right, but sign up. Dot wordpress dot com. But if you want to go directly toward press and learn more about it, that would be wordpress dot org’s. Okay, now you what? You’re trying to be an authority buy-in and i really messed up well, but i want to help you. It’s xero there only nine thousand dollars will do good. Only nine thousand people listening. Well, no. Nobody listens to this show. So it’s not gonna matter. It doesn’t matter what you say. Any closing thoughts you want to leave people with in their authority? Marketing? Um, i would say it’s it’s something that really people are hungry for, even though there’s plenty to read on the web. Uh, you know, the old thing, you know, you can’t publish anything. It is untrue. It’s untrue. On the web, right? Yeah, of course. But i would say just along with that, if you if you plan to go into this one of your main goals, should be to be consistent and to do it on an ongoing basis, you know, putting up one post every three months just is not really gonna do anything. It’s. Probably worse than doing nothing. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news at n p tech news. Dot com and scott remind us what your twitter ideas it’s xero scott koegler course spelling koegler is not easy. So it’s seo t k o e g l e r all right, scott, thank you very much, but with this, we’ll have you back next month. Thanks doing my pleasure. Thank you. More live listener love, new york, new york, memphis, tennessee and richardson, texas live love to all of you hope you’ll be with me next week when we’ll be talking about talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot is a consultant in cross generational communication. Ines boomer boss in a general i worker gen x boss and a boomer worker how about a general i fundraiser and a boomer or boomer plus donor? We’ll talk about strategies for working across the generations we’re all over the social web you can’t make a click without sparkle adoro testa, i hope i’m saying smacking your hard head backing your smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio that’s what i’m trying to say anyway, you can’t make a click without that. Ah four square, for instance, are you? On foursquare, if you are, then let’s connect because i’d love to see where you’re eating your breakfast in your dinners. I want to know what’s coming up before the show sign up for our weekly insider email alerts on the facebook page. There was a time when i had to say facebook, dot com forward slash tony martignetti non-profit radio that was, those are my dark days in social media. Now, i just say on the facebook page, and we all presume that you know where to find that our creative producer. Yes, we do have one is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor shows social media is barbara jean, a walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope to be with me next week. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Talking, alternative broadcasting talking alternative dot com on friday, one to two p, m eastern. I didn’t think you could do. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz get him. Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect. No more it’s time. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Told you.

Amy Sample Ward

Nonprofit Radio, March 15, 2013: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Tony’s Guest:

Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward

Our social media scientist and monthly contributor has a new co-authored book, “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” We’ll talk about how your nonprofit can raise money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our anytime, everywhere world.

 
 


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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and it’s friday, march sixteenth. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. It would hurt me deeply if it came to my attention that you had missed integrate communications and marketing that’s integrate g r e a t communications and marketing. Diane lansing, president of lansing associates, had ideas for getting your communications and marketing in sync. She wants you to apply analytics so you’ll know what works and what doesn’t in the short and long terms sounds simple, but are you doing it? Diane had advice for getting you started and p r i programme related investments are prospect research contributor and the prospect finder maria simple was with me to explain why foundations don’t only make grants, some offer loans, loan guarantees, equity investments and other pr ise how do you find those foundations? That’s what we talked about last week with maria she also had info on conferences that you’ll want to pay attention to this week. A conversation with amy sample ward, our social media scientists and monthly contributor, has a new co authored book social change any time everywhere how to implement online multi-channel strategies to spark advocacy, raise money and engage your community the book is shorter than its title. We’ll talk about how your non-profit can raise money in fact, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our any time everywhere world. Amy sample ward is going to be joining us, but she’s not here yet, so we’re going to start with tony’s take two instead of doing that later in the show, and then we go to a break and we’ll hope that amy’s here the time that that break is over. Tony steak to my block this week is number one podcast and two in the top five i want to give many, many thanks to blogger cheryl mccormick she’s, the principal of ascend non-profit consulting, and she named her top five non-profit podcasts and this show to show that you are listening to right this moment was number one, tony martignetti non-profit radio and cheryl, thank you very much for that fund-raising fundamentals, which is my monthly podcast that i host for the chronicle of philanthropy was number three. Cheryl, thank you very much. Again for that on this show number one show, in case i hadn’t mentioned that she likes jargon jail, she likes my jog in jail, and she likes live listener love that i send out, and i like those things too, and i think they are. I think both podcasts are highly rated by blogger cheryl mccormick, but also doing very well outside that because they’re fund-raising to do, um, i just love the opportunity to meet people that i would not have met otherwise and not only meet them, but pick their brains today, it’s going to be amy sample ward for an hour if she ever gets here, but all the other people, all the other guests, you know, i get to talk to them for twenty five, thirty minutes or so. Ah, that is just a riel joy, knowing that you’re learning from them as i’m picking their brains and we’re all learning, we’re both learning. I’m learning as well and as you fund-raising fundamentals, that’s a shorter one that said that’s, a monthly podcast, it’s only ten minutes and it’s devoted to fund-raising, but again picking the brains of experts for the benefit of listeners that is a real pleasure. The fund-raising fundamentals you can hear on the chronicle of philanthropy website and it’s, also on itunes, cheryl’s only negative for the for each of the two podcasts was that there’s not enough of them, she what she wishes i did them more frequently, and that was very gracious of her. Cheryl mccormick. Thank you much very much again. Her company is ascend non-profits and you’ll find cheryl mccormick at ascend non-profits dot com, and she has a very cool logo. The check out the logo for their company, very nicely done, very smart, very clever there’s, more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two little extended version for friday, the fifteenth of march, the eleventh show of the year. We’re going to take a break, hoping amy sample ward gets here by the time that’s over on while we take this break, i’ll be putting together some live listener love and thinking about what we’re going to talk about. If amy doesn’t get here in time, stay with me talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’ve got live listener love forest grove, oregon welcome forest grove you haven’t been here before. Welcome. Lincoln, nebraska, brooklyn, new york and woodside, new york welcome live listener love out to all of you let’s. See in aa. Tokyo, japan. Osaka, japan, and fukuoka, japan. Konichiwa, welcome live love tto live listen to love teo each live listener amy’s not here yet, so we’re going do a little a little preview of her book, a little browse through her book. The first thing that i want to point out is that i wish it had more pictures when i’m when i’m picking books. I i flipped through looking for pictures and i probably would not have bought her book. It didn’t have enough pictures for me. I like pictures like more graphic, so it has graphics and has some screen shots. It’s very good that way, but i would like more. I would like more pictures in amy’s book. Aside from that, any simple word has just joined us. Well, i’m sure you did. All right. Pick moment. Take a moment. Impose yourself if we figured you were in the subway, i was just saying, i wish your book had more pictures. Oh, yeah. Pictures of what? Just it doesn’t really matter. I don’t know. A cute dogs, landscapes, landscapes. Yeah, i just look, i look for pictures as i’m i’m browsing through the book section. The books, it was meant more for reading than browsing, but okay, take another breath. Yes. You knew you knew that we were waiting for you, and yeah, i was going to be fine, but welcome. Thank you. Have you for the full hour? Yeah, exactly. I’m happy to be here for as much of the subway would let me to be our best majority. I did. Tony’s take two in advance. So? So when i’m i’ll have that time together. Congratulations on your book. Thank you. Its code written by allison. Is it keeping kapin kapin much? Tell us about alison she’s, the founder of radcampaign and the tele summit and network women who tech she’s based in d c uh, she’s. Pretty cool. Yeah, i met her because i was at your book launch. Oh, that’s right book launch that you did at the at planned parenthood parenthood federation. Yeah, yeah, that was very good to about forty people. If you got to meet your husband, max? Yes, very nice. Often left alone as your traveling throughout the country. Yes. That’s the that’s the first time he’s ever seen me speak in any capacity in public? Yes. He said that i didn’t talk to him. You know, first time i know. Lovely. Um okay, we’re in. Why do you let’s make this clear? Where? Ok, i need any time everywhere, what’s, what’s our anytime, everywhere world that you are trying to help people make social change in. Well, the anytime everywhere is really focused on the people, not the organization. So all of your constituents, donors, supporters, whatever you want to call them, they are, you know, living their lives basically around the clock, their life. And they are thinking about okay, if i want to talk to this person, i’m going to do it here. Or if i want to talk about this topic, i’m going to do it here. You just interact with your community, however you do as an individual, it might mean a friend calls you and then after you hang up, maybe you go look at facebook and interact with another friend there and then maybe send your mom and email, you know, but you’re not thinking okay, well, i only talked to sam on the phone, and i only talk to my friend barb in email, you know, you as people, we don’t treat our communications and our networks in that way, so organization shouldn’t be saying, ok, well, we only send you emails or we only let you talk about our campaign on facebook. We need to think about the way we communicate and allow our communities to engage with us as as a way that crosses all those channels as well, okay? We’re not segmenting our lives and write our community, our conversations, right? Stilted, like communications are conversations, right? I see somebody on foursquare check in, and i’ll make a snarky comment or something that i have seen one of those geever andi didn’t answer it as i recall, um, in fact, you were recently traveling, you were in south by southwest. I wass that’s ah, what i think of it is just a big music and party and drink fest. Is that what many people think of it that way as well? I’ve never been there at the beauty of being me is that i can know nothing about something and still be an expert in it. Yes, of course. Oh, i think i’m very well acquainted with south by southwest. Even though i’ve never been there. Why don’t you tell us what the rial tell people like me who think that everything that they know nothing about but it’s a very comfortable place to be. Actually i what is south by southwest? Well, it it are very originally was a music festival, but now has three components music interactive, which is really all kinds of technology, not just social media, including gaming and all kinds of interfaces hardware, software, etcetera and film. So film and interactive take place the same week. Concurrently on then the following week is all music. Were you there in your capacity as membership director of non-profit technology network? I waas so there’s a non-profit lounge there lounges of all different types sponsored by different people. So there’s, a blogger lounge meant for bloggers to find each other, etcetera. So the non-profit lounge is sponsored each year by beaconfire ah, long time, you know, and ten member organization sponsor, etcetera, and they opened it up for others to get to be in the space with them so and ten had a presence. We had a couple couches, if you will, and i was also working with them to manage the content each day so that people that were started in the lounge, what kind of concert we had was that we had a different topic each day. So we had one day was focused on measurement and metrics. One day was focused on engaging millennials. One day was focused on technology, staffing and the capacity around technology. Um, there were a couple more, and we so we highlighted little, you know, not not trivia because they’re real. But, you know, just little tidbits from our research each day based on that topic. So you come in the room and learn different things. And then at lunchtime we had panels on that topic so people that we knew were going to be either at south by southwest. Are actually based in austin that we could bring in to talk that day, just with whoever wanted to be there and engage with them. And then night times that was the drink fest in well, for some, i think drinking started as early is, like eleven, because i guess technically it’s noon on the east coast. Yes, yes, all right, anything. Did you learn a couple of one or two little things that that you didn’t know or maybe reinforce something that what was your was your take home from from south by the has to be something? Yeah, i think you know, they’re always different applications or tools that get launched itself myself west. So people, you know, waiting, teo, unveil some new application, and so there was a bit of that as well, but i think this year, the feeling that i got from a lot of the non-profit and social impact crowd at the conference was that people are really starting to get to a place where they feel really proud about some of the things they’ve done in their non-profit and they they wish, you know hey, what? Why don’t we get all the attention? You know, just because that really big organization, you know, that has tons of marketing budget and had tried and tried many things and then succeeded with something, you know, we’re a tiny organization, and we did that to, you know, they want a platform for their voices to but, you know, south by is always kind of mixing up the content and have had different tracks and and things like that over the years. So it’s not to say that there will never be a platform for them. But i think this year, there are a lot of organizations there, you know, looking for a place where they could stand on their soapbox and then get to share with everyone what they’ve worked on. All right and excellent that they got that exactly like to see that small, especially small and midsize shops getting attention. Craig newmark wrote the forward to your book. Craig is the founder of craig craig’s list, of course. And quick connect. He’s. Been our guest on the show twice. I think that was a trivia question once. How many times you been on the show? Oh, did we do that? Oh, i think we did i think for a giveaway and weigh just you were my guest for the hundredth show and we’re giving away? Yes, but the answer’s two way long ago gave away a lot of intense swag for us to give away. Yes, and he says in the forward that social media and good customer service or big deals you think we were going, you and i talk every month about social media, we know that that’s a big deal goodcompany mers service what? Why? Why is he talking about that with respect to the social engagement social change? Well, i think it doesn’t matter if you’re for-profit aura non-profit if you do true direct service or not, ah lot of the most basic day to day interactions that you could be having with your community take the form of customer service, even if you know, in a non-profit we normally don’t call them, but answering people’s questions or just being able to be present on social media, where you see people asking a question, even if it’s not about you being the organization that can answer the question for them and really playing a service role builds community in such a small kind of passive way, but that israel and you’re creating value with them, that it is a matter you know, if you are comcast and you want to use twitter to answer customer service questions or, you know you’re the humane society and you want to use twitter to make sure people know how to get help with their animals and and, you know, i like your just broad definition of what’s customer service. I mean, it may just be interacting on a day to day, right? You may not think of it as a service to the customer just having, you know, we’re just engaged in a conversation there on the engagement ladder and what exactly were just, you know, talking to them right, exactly and helping helping your supporters take advantage of all that they could do with you is customer service, you know, someone calling and saying, i want to volunteer, but i don’t know how and you pointing them in the direct in the right direction that is still a customer service function in your organization. We’ve got some live listener love we’re talking about texas austin, texas, where itself by was but we have san antonio on the line, santa or on the web? You know antonio, texas live listeners love welcome, welcome to the show and the conversation let’s, talk, talk a fair amount, i think about fund-raising and then how will we even, you know, engagement and advocacy get, you know, getting talking toa advocates and motivating advocates, and you spent some time talking about the different motivations to give why white people are giving on dh there certainly have been articles and books on this right by the the traditional, i guess fund-raising prose that are out there, you you spent a little time with emotions, emotions versus statistics, right? What would you like to say there? Well, obviously, we are humans, we are driven by emotion. Um, and i think that a lot of online tools facilitate that really well, you know, how many times have we seen a tweet or gotten an email where they say, you know, this many million people in this country are dealing with this issue and it’s like, okay, well, i don’t actually know a billion people, so i can’t conceptualize that very well, you know, but having a story that directly connects with you and is someone that’s already been served by that organization helps you understand the kind of person that is may be dealing with that issue and the way that the organization helps them because that’s really what we need thio conceive as the person who’s going to take action. Isn’t that what does it really mean for a billion people to be dealing with this issue? But what does it look like to help a person with dealing with that issue? If i can conceptualize what changing the fate is, then i can understand how i can help it and be a part of it. But if it’s just the raw data, it’s really hard to see what the action is in that, and social media really helps with storytelling because you can have, you know, people interacting people sharing their own story in response to that story, it really facilitates that, but the other part of emotion is our natural competitiveness and, you know, not really wanting to say, oh, yeah, my friend karen gave a lot more to that organization that i did. Who says that? Who says, oh, i gave the least of my friends. You know, and and tapping into that natural competitiveness, you know, using peer pressure for good is actually very successful. One of the research reports that we sight in the book was in pledges, so so, like a pledge drive over the phone, but still you could do this on social media, but when the collar you know, talking to the donor said that the previous caller had given more than they were about to pledge they then up to their pledge, and they upped it even more when the color sad. Oh, actually, the woman before you, if it was a woman collar and once they knew it was the same gender is them. They gave even more so just by presenting the opportunity to be outdone by someone else, people wanted to beat them. We’re going to talk that’s, outstanding. We had a guest i had guessed professor gen shang from the university of indiana, and she had done research with this was telephone based also with public radio and bloomington, indiana. When when? When certain whether she had five key words and when they were used to thank the person you’re or to describe the person as as a donor, so you’re very kind of you to give or it’s very compassionate of you to give that it increased the the donations right for that call. And actually i think that we’re doing it. I’m being a little inarticulate, but where they were doing it was i want to thank you for your kind donations in the past or your compassionate or your thoughtful donations in the past, and we hope that you’ll you’ll help us today. Yeah, those using there were five different adjective she had and they could trigger they would trigger hyre giving than someone who who was just thanked. Thank you for your past giving, right. So this is this is really interesting when it’s gender and when there’s a comparison to the previous calling out, how were they, you know, like with the language they were using? Because you don’t be snarky about, right? Right? Do you remember? I know they were introducing that it’s now the top of my head, it was something like, you know, similar like, thanks so much for your desire to give the woman before you donated fifty how much would you like to donate? So you’re just kind of using it as a context setting statement and then giving them the chance to say like, well, darn it, i’m given sixty five, you know? Yeah, excellent. Okay, um going back to your point about big numbers versus a face, i found a quote, i’m going to quote mother teresa, i found a quote that that’s pertinent to this, i think she said, never worry about numbers, help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you social media can make a story come alive, it could be a person near you, it could be pictures on instagram. It could be video youtube video on your blogged you can you can put a face to the the homelessness or the hunger that affects a billion people right, and show people how their gift will will impact that that story right? And i like the part of the quote that says start with the person nearest to because that’s too, what we’ve talked about many times in the show don’t go out there and try and find these new people. You already have a community of people that you work with, that you’ve served. Start with their stories and then other people will come out of the woodwork. You know that identify with that story or that have also been served, but maybe i hadn’t talked to you before, so start with the stories you already have and just show them out to the to the rest of the community. Ok, so some peer pressure, yes, about suffering a little point about about suffering can be a valuable, motivated give yeah, it’s kind of a weird nuance on competition. It’s it’s part of why things like walkathon tze and challenges of you know, if i if someone donates five thousand dollars, i’ll shave my head because we actually really liketo watch each other have to deal with something that we don’t have to deal with. And so it’s it’s part of why we can say great, you know, if you pledge, i’ll have to run this many miles. Terrific. I would like to see my friend have to run that many miles yeah, and again, doing that in a place where all those people, you know, in a like a thon process where all those people are competing for donations gives you both layers. Of the captain’s competing against each other for the most pledges, but then also all of their friends saying, oh, yeah, i want my friend to have tto shave his head back in the dark days before, before i knew you as well as i do, those were the dark days they were well, they were more your doctor darker for you if you’re going there were darker for you before you knew me then and then before i knew you, um, i was used to now, so you’ve even like you, really? You haven’t liked me because i used to pay more attention to vanity metrics, then you and i have talked about vanity tricks, and i’m going to give the quintessential example of it in a second. I pay less attention to those things now more involved in the more thinking about the engagement, and i was paying at that time very close attention to the number of facebook like likes, likes of the show’s facebook page, and this was a couple of years ago, and i wanted to get to three hundred and i don’t remember where we started, right? But i with some high school friends. Of mine, who were willing tto co chair the campaign. I issued the blue pedicure challenge and i said that i would get a blue pedicure if friends from anywhere but the two friends from high school with cochair radcampaign if we would get to three hundred lakes and of course we did get the three hundred likes within a certain time is like two weeks or so. We’ve got three hundred and and i went across the street from the studio here there’s this clip on the second floor there’s a salon and i got a blue pedicure and i had video it’s sons on the youtube channel. It was great fun. Yeah, and people said, you know, a soon as we got the three hundred are weighted the blue pedicure. Yeah, it’s tony gonna make good on the way we want to see the photo so i had video of me making my appointment, which was won. And then i picked my color. Nice. Different shades of blue, of course. Of course. I picked my blue color. And then i went back a week later for my appointment, and i upgraded to the powerful max. Also i got the paraphernalia. I don’t even know what that means, but well, they put your feet in warm wax. Oh, interesting wax. Okay, yeah, i don’t know what i’m supposed to soften. I think too interesting. That was my first and last boedecker left so many questions now, so well, they’re all answered on the video there i’ll go to the video i block i met blogged it too. I know it’s on the but certainly it’s on youtube blue pedicure challenge you took a multi-channel approach to this pedicure experience. I did that’s true because we campaign was in multi-channel and then the impact in the outcome were were probably blawg and certainly facebook and youtube e did take multi-channel provoc any other and plenty of engagement. Lots of engagement it was great fun. Yeah, it was good. So pie in the face you use the pie in the face example in the back. There’s. A picture of someone one of the few pictures in the book has someone getting those lots of graphs and good pictures. Has someone getting a pie in the face and there’s a picture of alison’s dog in the book leah leah lida lida lida. Like peter, with a now. Okay, why is why is there dog picture? Because they adopted her. And so there’s ah, case study in there about an adoption campaign. Okay, so there you go, there’s a picture and it’s a cute i didn’t say there were no pictures. I said it’s not enough to suit me. We’re coming out in the fall with color book edition, a graphic novel way have just about a minute before break let’s talk about the last area of motivation sharing impact you and i talked about this before, but let’s just remind listeners how important that is. Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, i think a lot of organizations, when they think sharing impact, they think, okay, well, you know where the campaign’s over will send an email that says, we got all of the money and now we’re going to do the thing. There we go, that’s the report, but but there’s versions of sharing impact that are kind of like evergreen content, you know, the putting, putting some of your expenditures or big, successful things in the footer of your email. So anytime someone goes in the photo of your website. Anytime someone goes your website, they see this is how much money is being devoted two programs, and this is what those programs have created, or whatever. There’s also reached the research that shows on donation forms, where you actually show the impact of the money, people donate more so, again, just just keeping it really clear, clear and present all the time as an opportunity, right? Wait, go away for a couple minutes, and when we come back, of course, amy stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get him. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent there’s a bunch of you on facebook, there’s a bunch of you on twitter and join the conversation with those already there on twitter, use the hashtag non-profit radio thanks for joining us multi-channel let’s see what you bring in-kind caroline, caroline, caroline xero eyes are san antonio is that i believe shut up, san antonio. Um okay, so we’re all about multi-channel we should have a plan for our multi-channel now engagement strategy turns out we are too, right? Yeah, you want to have goals? You and i have talked about some of this before, but right, putting it all together now and you’ve put it together in a book. So it’s ah it’s worth it’s worth revisiting the stop? Yes, because they are important. R r multi-channel plan goals. But how are we going to figure out where we want to be? Well, especially for fund-raising you know, goals have to be really specific. It’s hard to say we’re going to do this year and campaign because we would like to raise some money and you know where we’re soup kitchen, we do things that are important. Although important, not compelling has a goal for your staff to even create a campaign out of, but also for your donors to want to support. But if you can say if we raise this much money, it will actually give us this many meals in this much time, you know, three hundred meals over the course of the month. If we can raise this much money, people then can imagine both you know what their actual, like hundred dollar donation means as faras how much is served, but it also sets you up to do more than your asking, you know, if you say we’re we’re shooting for ten thousand dollars and that gives us three hundred meals for the month of january as soon as you get close to the goal. It’s really easy to say terrific. Now, if we get ten thousand more, we can feed everyone for february two instead of those campaigns that you see where they’ve done a really great job, they’ve activated their community, and once it starts, they actually start raising a lot of money and then they get to the end and they think terrific close down shop, you know, the thermometer reached the top instead, you’re setting yourself up to go is much, you know, raise as much as you can in the time that you’re planning to run the campaign and you also set yourself up. If in case you don’t reach your number, you’re still able to report back in a successful way of saying, you know, we had high hopes of raising ten thousand and we didn’t get there, but we’re still have enough to do two hundred bills this month, and this is how you could help us, you know, after the holidays to serve those last hundred or whatever. So giving yourself a really clear goal lets you iterated kind of as the campaign goes and respond to how it how it’s doing important, do you think tio, have a time limit to your your fund-raising goal? Definitely ah lot, whether you have one week or a one month or however long that the time is, you’re going to see an initial tick and then a big drop in the valley and then as it gets closer, you know, everyone starts donating again, so it doesn’t really i mean, technically, it matters you don’t want to say this is a yearlong donation campaign, but whatever the duration, is it’s really clear or it’s really important to be clear about when the end date is so that people know ok? It’s coming, oh, my gosh, i better donate now and and they actually respond to that e mail instead of just saying, oh, well, i could do it next time i remember or next time i have my wallet. In-kind now we’re gonna have to figure out how to message message just campaign, so that should be a part of our our plan also, exactly, and a lot of organizations, you know, when when starting to think about a campaign fund-raising or otherwise get really excited in that staff meeting when you start brainstorming like the catchphrase of the campaign, you know, and that can be fun and enjoyable, but very rarely are the witty catchphrase is actually the things that include the action and the ask, so don’t spend too much time thinking of like balloons for ur or whatever like crazy thing that maybe is related to the campaign is because you want to make sure whatever very simple phrasing you use and then build your campaign off of includes the aschen, the action so what, you know, give or do this thing for, you know, this many meals in this time? And then once you have that core message, ain you khun start planning out of communications calendar that’s reflective of all those channels you want to use remembering, of course, offline or direct mail and not just e mail, etcetera. The other part about messaging that i see organizations forget about is is they concentrate on how they’re going to launch the campaign, and their communications calendar will say, you know, here’s, the first email that goes out and here’s, how we’re going to decorate our facebook page and rebranded there’s no date in that planet’s launch plan and then exactly exactly for exaggeration plan. Sometimes organizations say, well, you know, we want to be responsive, we want a wait and see how it goes. Well, that’s totally fine, but you could still say our plan is to send a second email day three of the campaign, and we’ll be able to say what you contribute exactly. You need to have planned out when you’re going to message so that you can say great if day three, we’re going to send it on update email let’s, make sure later that afternoon facebook has an update as well, and not just another you know, status report or something, so it helps you maintain a good flow across your channel so it’s not always responsive and you’re you know, twitter isn’t just thanks, thanks, thanks, but also has things to share out, you know, that match your other communications you meant now you mentioned offline also. So this is that we’re not just talking about online social social networks, but the offline strategies should be coordinated, if that’s the way that you’re right, typically engaging with people right? And some organizations may plan an offline launch event the day that the campaign is launching. So of course, you know there’s a lot to do there, but it’s also a good reminder to to capture content from that launch event that you can use throughout the campaign. If you have a bunch of people in one place, make sure summer your staff have their phones or flip cameras or something to take some videos, and then you have maybe half a dozen videos you can use during the course of the campaign that again, just bring up on individual story, give you some divers content, etcetera, you know, whatever kinds of content you could pull from that live event but it’s also a good reminder that many organizations, even while running a campaign, have other work that you’re doing. And so maybe you have a press event about some of your other work use that as an opportunity. Once the press component of that piece is over, you know you’re done talking about that policy change, you have a room full of people, then say, great, you know, this is all done i had now want to talk to you about this campaign we’re running, and we’re on day five and it’s going really well and here’s the story take advantage of all those offline opportunities to engage people kayman sample ward is a cz membership director of and ten, which you’ll find it, and ten dot or ge and the book that we’re talking about whether that she co authored is social change anytime. Everywhere you khun follow amy on twitter she’s at amy r s ward at which we know stands for rene the artist for rene and her block is amy sample ward, dot or ge? Get some more live listener love madison, wisconsin, tustin, california. Salem, oregon welcome, salem. Welcome you’re in. So you were in salem several months ago. You were in somewhere in oregon. Weren’t portland, portland not very far away. Okay, italy, we don’t know what city in italy we just have a vague reference to italy. Buy-in giorno, chou. Welcome live listener love also tio sudbury in ontario, canada. And barnaby burnaby. Pardon me, burnaby in british columbia, canada two provinces welcome canada he’s offline strategies. Amy um, could also be so for aside from events direct mail if you usually using that channel telephone. Yeah, right. This these could all be coordinated in your three day or one week or one month campaign. Yeah, especially if you have stories that you know you’re going to use ahead of time in your campaign. You know, things that you’ve collected in the past, because if you khun send a direct mail piece, especially just something simple, like, ah, postcard or, you know, an invitation to participate in the campaign that is from that person or telling that person story has their photo, and then, two days later, you can send them an email that says, great. Now, the campaign’s open, and it has that same story. People then can say, yes, i know that story. I ready to kim. You know, i’m ready to join or actually remember that they’ve signed up with your organization at all, and that they should be engaging in this campaign. And that direct mail piece wasn’t a like a mistake in their mailbox in their apartment building. What do we know about how donors give across multi-channel versus more traditional the off, strictly off line? Well, that data is changing every year is we actually get more and more data at all have more people that we can ask survey, etcetera and and organizations are also becoming more sophisticated with being able to track there donors with they came from online or not, and then just able to report that data so it’s getting more it’s getting clearer every year, but really, we know that people that are online aren’t just saying because i found you online, i want to give to online or because i found you offline. I want to give to offline there’s actually a lot of back and forth that happens. And for most people, even if they are millennials, where people think for some reason, you know, young people only ever look at facebook even if they found you on social media, they still come to your website tto learn about your work and figure out if they want to donate to you so that relationship, maybe on facebook, that relationship may be off line at events they attend, but they still want to go to your website where they can kind of take control of what they’re looking at on your website and learn about your work? So it’s still really important that you have information on your website, but also that you provide that donation? Ask an opportunity button, what have you on your website so that once they go there and learn about you, they could take that action? We also know that activists are seven times more likely to be donors, so we can’t treat people like, well, this is my activist list in this database and over here is my donor list because those activists are totally primed to now give you money, they just put their name on a bunch of work for you, they might as well, you know, give you ten dollars, so it isn’t just about allowing them to come to you wherever you are, but also making sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity teo to engage in donation or fund-raising asks excellent keeping with our multi-channel a c said you could join us on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio there’s some folks on the facebook page and we have a phone call. We have tim. Tim, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you very much. Hi, dad. Ah, that’s. Adorable. Dad called yes. That’s to sweden. Where you where you calling from? Amy sample wards. Dad. Well, i work important oregon, but amy was raised, and we live out in the country outside of portland. Okay. And, uh, of course, her mother knew first and called me and said, oh, my god, going to computer your daughter’s on the radio. I just had to get on here listen and tell everybody i see how proud i am with us. Oh, thank you, dad. I love you. Now i hope you’re gonna listen. Other shows to tim, you know. Oh, i will now want you to be a regular water in there. Yeah. Do you have? Do you have a question? You really want to ask amy? Yeah. When’s. He coming home. This’s too sweet. I love this. I’ll see you on saturday. You will at a girl. All right. Find adal. Proud of you, amy. Thank you, dad. Nice to meet you to let me on it’s. A pleasure to meet you, tim. If you want to, if you want to ask. A question of amy. You can call eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. Or you can also treat us. We’re monitoring the hashtag and the facebook page. That’s. A very nice way of saying you’re stalking social media in case people ask questions. Here in the studio, i’m busy talking now, theo control. We want to engage people in our messages, whether they’re online offline and you talk about the hooks we have just a little we have a minute before a break, what just once you just tease the idea of of the hook a little bit? Sure, i mean, different people have different ideas of messaging hooks and what you can do, but i think for people really thinking about multi-channel campaigns, the important idea of a hook is that that’s, the consistent piece you’re going to throw in so that whether you’re maybe sharing a photo and a story of someone on facebook that day or you’re sharing a big infographic about, you know, all this work that’s going into the campaign or maybe it’s just tweets about simple actions people can take you use a consistent hooked to bring them back into the campaign. So when isn’t just like this photo or share this info graf or, you know, retweet this step, but there’s an additional hook that always connects it backto larger campaign so people don’t think, oh, the campaign must be over, and now they’re just sharing info graphics. But but that there’s always some peace hooking. It all together, so it, you know, you want to break the campaign and into individual stories, individual images and smaller actions, but they have to be connected. Otherwise, people don’t get why am i doing this today? And i did this other thing yesterday. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes when we come back, amy, and i’ll keep talking about your your multi-channel plan and what should be in it, including the goals and the messages in the hook that we’re talking about. Stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Durney welcome back. I’ve got more live. Listen, love asia so well represented in john china sold. I’m sorry. Inchon, korea in john career where the airport is. Everybody knows that on john korea. Seoul, korea. Welcome, manu haserot. If you shout china, shanghai, china taipei, taiwan ni hao. Amy, did you know all these languages? No, i have been to korea, but i don’t remember much more than hello. Were you at the airport in inchon? No, you don’t know. You went to the floor. Different airport. I flew into seoul and then hopped over. Teo, you know we’re other places. Okay, um, the these these little hooks you you have some ideas about matches the hook in as part of your your message plan might be that you have a campaign match which could be which could be motivating to people to give. I thought you meant matches like to ignite striking matches. Right, that’s. Why? I could see the look on your face. Keep talking until you come back till it’s. In my reality, we need to show some reality. Um, yes, matches are a great way. As you know, in a fund-raising like retirement today campaign especially. When you know that money is already guaranteed, you don’t necessarily have to just recruit a matching sponsor, you could say, well, the sponsors giving us ten thousand dollars anyway, let’s give this sponsor more visibility, give them more value as a sponsor, but also leverage that to get more individual donations. So saying, you know, this sponsor is goingto give for every one of your dollars, and we want to get up to ten thousand just like, you know, they will match more to say, you know, every time you do this action, they will donate so that way you can, you know, maybe you don’t necessarily have a fundraising campaign that’s pure fund-raising but you want people thio maybe donate, you have this sponsor that’s going to donate the bulk of the funds, but you really want to get some behavior change in your community. So the diabetes hands foundation did a great campaign. We’re actually fall diabetes hands, foundation spend, you know, they’re they’re focused on people with diabetes and really making behavioral change so that they have healthier lives and are healthier people. So they had a campaign where there was a matching sponsor, so they were going to donate every time people exercise for thirty minutes and then took did their test so that they were being able to see from their own results that when they took a test than exercise for thirty minutes and then took another test, how much better their results were blood a butcher on, and then you report that. So so go onto the website or goto instagram and share a photo of view exercising and to prove that exercising for thirty minutes doesn’t mean you drive all the way to the gym. You change your clothes, you know, you do the thing, whatever it could just mean taking your dog for a walk that’s twice as long as normal. So you actually get to thirty minutes instead of maybe, you know, ten or fifteen around the block and realizing you don’t have to go out of your way to be exercising every day and still see those positive results in yourself. So every time you posted that you did the testing and you exercise into the test again, then the sponsor was going to donate. So of course you have all these people that for one month no. Every time i do this thing that i should do anywhere, you know, they’re going to donate money and then because you’ve done it for an entire month, and even if you only did it once a week, that was already for five times that you’ve taken this positive action and seen how easy it is, and you’re that much more likely to continue that behavior outstanding. I love how it’s so closely tied to exactly what they’re what they’re mission exactly, exactly improvement of health, of people with diabetes. Exactly. So now, if we have these messages now, we need to identify who they’re going to go out, too and where where they’re gonna go out? What? Which way said you and i are always saying, you want to go to people where they are exactly, but it’s also not the same message, every single place i mean, we have all experienced those campaigns where an organization sends you an email and then post on facebook like the exact same two paragraphs that they just set you in an email and then you don’t hear from them for the entire month, and they’re just waiting for the response to come in, so recognizing that you’re going to have some consistent messages throughout the campaign, like we talked about with the campaign communications calendar, but also that they’re going to be slightly different and nuance so new macy on facebook people not really catching the campaign, not really engaging, and yet you see people on twitter going crazy and sharing that information, so you’re going to have to address the facebook community, maybe with less information about the campaign, maybe that community is just saying we’re not really interested, so don’t be posting every single day because otherwise they’re definitely going to tune out, whereas you could start engaging twitter more cause people are really responding there. So it’s it’s also recognizing where to pull back and not just okay? Well, we’re going to send the ask everywhere another channel that you and i haven’t talked about it, we just have about a minute left. So is mobile. Yet for people who have given you permission, yeah, say little about mobile mobile is great for engaging people, especially in the middle of the campaign where you could send a text that says, hey, reminder, tomorrow is going to be the last day. So today, when you get home, you should donate or even include in the text the link so that they could go from there, you know, text message on their smartphone over to the to the web and donate their so long as you’ve actually optimized your website. So from a phone, the for the forum doesn’t look like this weird gobbledygook. Amy sample ward she’s, co author of social change anytime everywhere i’m very grateful that she’s, our regular social media contributor thank you. I really enjoyed having you on. Do you have so much banter with others? I want to believe that i give you the hardest time. Okay, well, i want then i in that case, i want you to continue believing that the book is social change any time everywhere get the book. We just talked about a small part of it. We talked about the fund-raising part, but it’s all about engagement and increasing advocacy. Moving the needle on engagement get this book it’s ah it’s on you’ll find it on amazon social change anytime everywhere amy’s blogger is amy sample ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy rs ward amy, thanks so much. Thank you, real pleasure. Every time i got some more live listener love a story in new york, that’s, queens, welcome historia milton, ontario, canada, ontario. It checked in before we have had sudbury. Now we have milton welcome milton, and we’ll have to hold off on the rest of the live. Listen up until next week, so we’ll see who the live listeners are next week and next week, it’s going to be all lawyers. They’re going to stay in line, or i throw their ass is in jargon jail, it’s that simple, who writes this copy, i what i need is an intern, so i could blame for this shabby copy. If anybody knows an intern who wants that crummy job, please on twitter or facebook, let me know next week it is all lawyers first we’re starting with irs sale in aisle four o three b i’m going to say that word again because i’m pleased with that irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller is a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun and he’s going to explain the irs is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Trust me, i will keep him out of jargon jail and he’s he’s an interesting and very good natured guy, not your average lawyer. We’re gonna talk about the common mistakes in four o three b plans and what to do competition? Clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. They’re going to talk about the issues around proper compensation of your execs and others, there’s a lot to talk about there, and we’re going to a board role play also, we’re all over the social web. Amy amy sample word name a social network just name one lincoln, we’re not on lengthen. Yes, you know we are linked, and of course, we’re on the length. In group you go linked in group, you can ask the what we do there is, you can ask the asked a guest even more questions. Yes, the linked in group, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, but talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that dude is a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. 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Nonprofit Radio, March 1, 2013: Press Pause & Divine Devices

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Julie Funt
Juliet Funt
Juliet Funt: Press Pause

The daughter of Candid Camera’s Allen Funt, Juliet Funt is a consultant to Fortune 100 companies and a motivational business speaker. She wants you to make time in your life for White Space(r). You’ll be less stressed, more creative, sleep better and be more productive. Relationships will flourish. She has a kids version too. We’ll do a White Space(r) together.

 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Divine Devices

Desktops, laptops, tablets and handhelds. Scott Koegler has tips for picking the right device to fit your budget, work style and personality. He’s the editor of Nonprofit Technology News and our monthly tech contributor. (Rebroadcast from August 17, 2012)

 
 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s friday, march first. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. It would cause me mortal pain to hear that you had missed donor-centric j love is the ceo of bloomerang we talked about holding on to the donors, you’ve got because it’s much cheaper here, cheaper and easier to keep a donor than to replace one. Jay had strategies to help you and maria’s sites maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder kept up her reputation as doi n of dirt cheap and free sites she reviewed donorsearch and list select this week. Press pause juliet fundez, a consultant to fortune one hundred companies on a motivational business speaker. She wants you to make time in your life for white space. You’ll be less stressed, more creative, sleep better and be more productive. Your relationships will flourish. She has a kid’s version too she’s, the daughter of candid cameras, allen funt and we’ll enjoy a white space together. I hope she’s gonna let me do that with her and divine devices desktops, laptops, tablets and handhelds scott koegler has tips for picking the right device to fit your monthly budget, your budget, whether it’s monthly or annual, your work style and your personality. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and he’s, our monthly tech contributor that’s, an archive feature from august seventeenth of last year that means it’s old but it’s good and worth rehearing between the guests on tony’s take two, i contribute to the non-profit the fund-raising for non-profits blawg, and i’ll share what i’m doing over there. My pleasure right now to welcome juliette fund for more than ten years, she has worked with organizations to flow the norms of business for the better she’s, a nationally recognized expert in coping with the age of overload in which we all live and work as a busy corporate speaker and consultant, business owner, wife and mother, she practices on a daily basis. The white space concept that she will share with us generally actually prefer to have hypocrites on the show who who have advice for others but don’t use it themselves. So juliet, we’ll see what happens you’ve already heard you’ve already hurt her, chuckling. I love it with us. From los angeles, i’m pleased to welcome juliette fund. How are you, julia? My pleasure. Thank you for for a sharing time with us and your expertise? Um, what’s the problem, juliette, that white space is supposed to be helping us with it’s, the daily overload and the way that we all sit down to our work in the beginnings of the day. And we have grand aspirations for doing a lot of things. And then we end up segueing into reactivity through the entire day. Because there is this task assault for most people, where they sit down at their desk or their laptop or wherever they work. And suddenly the world floods in and the rails are ideas about what would have been good. What would have been a nice way to spend the day and then there’s all sorts of other tangential problems that occur because of that overload. And that task assault problems that ding us in the areas of productivity and engagement and creativity. Then the friends, he kind of takes place and continues at home in our brains. Where were you with our families with sleeping while we’re trying to have what we used. To call a weekend and so we have a hard time separating from it, and the problems that it provides in the work week are only then amplified by the way that it makes us stressing guilty about the way that we can do what we want to do when we were with our loved ones. So it’s, really, when we do white space work, we always tag back and forth. Although most of our businesses around business there’s really a lot of personal applications well and what are some of the impacts of this task overload? Well, people are just plain stressed to begin with, they’re not as engaged. They don’t feel good about their day at the end of it because they have an accomplish what they hoped, and we see creativity scores going down actually, for the last eighteen years, that’s not only task overload causing it, but both adults and children are you seeing creativity scores go down and down and down and that’s a bad pairing with what we see on the business sign, which is that fifteen hundred ceo that ibm just creativity is the most important leadership competency of our future that’s on one side on the other side, our ideas, they’re just withering in front of this constant motion and constant dizziness. We just can’t have ideas in that environment. I hate that feeling you mentioned once or twice at the end of a day, or even even just the end of an hour where it’s it’s not i didn’t do what i had hoped to do in that hour or that day, right? Well, we can’t seem to regain control in a business environment. A lot of it has to do with what i call the four horsemen of the apocalypse, which is email power point travel in calendar who’s the basic elements what did you what did you call it? The four horsemen of what the corporal corporal apocalypse we call corp aka lips. Okay, but incorporate or in a non-profit er, if you’re a solo printer, wherever you are, usually your meeting calendar in some form another, even if those meetings or just conference calls or and your email and they need to be producing decks of some kind and the perfection around those decks and travel or calendar management, those consolidated areas tend to be the biggest pain. Points. But there’s also a lot below them. You didn’t mention texting. Should we have four horsemen of five horsemen? Actually, should we have, like, a dozen horses, really be its own horseman? I tend to focus on email because if we really had to find one bad guy for most of us in terms of time ravaging, it would be the power point deck. You know that thing? That thing just eats at me. I miss transparencies and little little find markers that we used to write with on the those big, bulky, noisy overhead projectors. Yeah, i missed a little. Those little transparency, those little acid tate sheets. I’m talking king. I mean, i miss just going into somebody’s office and saying, i got an idea. Can i bounce it off you for five minutes now, people say, come back to me with the deck and then people go off twenty seven versions and take all week and see, i think in some way are verbal skills are after seeing because they keep going back to let me write a deck. Let me write a deck it’s also getting in the way of just being able to say let me scope this out for you. And then, if it’s worthwhile, let me spend half of my work was riding it. I also miss those overhead projectors. Because i was one of the few kids in high school who knew how to change the bulb. Specially made me very well. Yes, thank you. So, do you recognize that so quickly? We’ll have been together for a few minutes. Yeah, maybe very popular among the faculty att the high school. So we’re going to we want to press pause. I know. That’s, your phrase. Press pause. Are we scheduling this time what’s our logistics for preparing for whitespace. Okay, so the first thing we have to do is understand what white spaces. So what white faces is either an improvisational or a scheduled period of time or thought that we do whatever we want with that we reserve for the area for which we have no plans. It is that flexible, fluid, open thinking time and pausing time that we used to have more of. And then once we have it, there’s quite a lot of ways that we can implement it, that the most important thing is to lace. Our days through with these small pauses. So, for instance, we have executives who will take. I just got off the phone yesterday, hearing about someone who blocks two to four hours of thinking time each day on their schedule. Well, that must be a very low level person who has nothing to do, right? Well, no, it’s, not and that’s what’s. So funny. Sure. Have you no, nothing, no ability to plan their days. And the higher up the chain you go, the more the luxury item of time to think is something that we have discretionary choice but that’s. Quite a grand white. Yeah, too, right? Yeah. That’s. Quite grand. Um, white space can be taken in little sips like a glass of water you keep on your desk and you just take little sips through the course of the day is breathe and paws. We’ll be in and longer periods where you grab a half an hour an hour that’s on your calendar and defended and premeditated. And during that time, you sit back and really just let the mind go as it will. They’re one of wonderful things about it. It’s really nimble and once people have the word white space and they added to the lexicon of their life then they find ways to you that maybe aren’t even what i would prescribe it’s just reminding them over and over that space is not the enemy and that word itself being in your language reminds you that space is not the enemy, so this can be improvised or planned improvisation doing an improvisational, he sounds like fun, like you could just say, i don’t have anything to do for a couple of minutes. I’m goingto what would you say? I’m gonna have a white space? Or do we want special? There’ll never be anybody who ever meet at their place of work and says, i don’t have anything to do for a couple of minutes unfortunately mean that, well, a call mike that canceled or somebody might be running late and you find yourself in it happens, yeah, that’s that’s true, we call that forced white face when your system to reboot or someone’s later, you’re upleaf unfortunately, because of our handheld devices usually weaken gobble that time right back-up the second we have an elevator ride or waiting for a dentist or any moment. Of unaccounted time. The cellphone and smartphone will allow us to immediately insert technology fix into that cause the white space, even in those times, needs to be a choice and needs to be purpose. Okay? Yeah. And moments of forced white space when you’re when the world makes you wait when the world makes you stop, that is a beautiful place to just abstain on purpose from filling mindlessly with the next little thing. You could be checking off your list. Yes, right, right. Even when it’s not on your list, you check. Checking now. Having this list, mirage that we’re just going to keep checking things off. And then one day we’re gonna open our list in-kind flank. You know it? Never. It never is going to happen, right? Never is. I’m sorry to be the purveyor of bad news, but no that’s, not that’s. Not coming any time soon. It’s list it’s a relationship emotionally that we have with the list of the constant work in progress that that’s more important in terms of grabbing white space. But i can give you if you like a few simple applications of where white people live. Yes, we’re going. To take a break. First, though, juliette. Okay, andi, when we come back, of course you’ll stay with us and hope everyone else does, too, will have a little live listen in love, and we’re going to try. We’re going to try a white space, we’re going to do, ah, a short, white space. Somehow we’re going to figure this out, okay, everybody, stay with us, all right, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m rick, a keg, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications that calm, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time to send live listener love. Tustin, california. Atlanta, georgia. Vincent, ohio. Philadelphia, pennsylvania. South hadley, mass live listener love going out to all those cities and states. Wasilla, alaska. I love wasilla that is the hometown, or at least to the town where sarah palin was was mayor and then she became governor. That’s wasilla. So, if, if you know sarah, give her our regards, but if you don’t, we know wasilla live, listener, love all those places, and juliet fund, have a little. I have a little love for you, a little guest love. If you hold on one second, we’re goingto, hopefully, this is gonna work standby. Yeah, i might call you when i first moved in. This is just one funny story. Uh, i have a drugstore and a woman ran in. She was absolutely beside us off. Her husband had reached for the wrong box on the medicine cabinet and taken poison by mistake. That’s a funny story. He was home on the floor like kicking, you know, when turning blue and everything. It was a real emergency. She needed an anti dote desperately and was a very tough situation. And it turns out the druggist was allen funt. That is that is woody allen on the jack paar show from december nineteen sixty two. Well, woody allen was on candid camera a couple times. He was one of them. He did it sketch about dictating a letter to his secretary. He was dictating a love letter to one of the greatest candid camera bits of all time. Oh, excellent. Before his before, he was widely so widely known and recognized. Yes, when he was really cool. Hoexter figuring it out. Excellent. I found that clip and i would hope you have some fun with it dahna great let’s. Say, all right, so what’s, our next step leading up, tio, we’re going to do maybe a twenty second white white space to get. Well, it seems like getting the grammar right and helping you there is probably gonna work. It takes some white space or we have some white space has its way. If we were to have some white face on the show, i would first need to give you a little tiny primer of what it is and what it is not. And then we could do some time. Dwight. Space, if you like. Okay, i thought. We’d do it for, like, twenty seconds or so. Great. Okay, no way would have won. I’m sorry. We would have won twenty seven it’s. Ok. Well, that and that’s. Wonderful. Because one of the things that i said about white faces, people just go with it where they want. So if you want to take a white space that’s just fine with me, the butt white spaces, not meditation. And this is one of the most important things, especially with a mindful audience to explain, because if we say let’s, do twenty seconds of white space in a few minutes, we people will not know what to do with their brain during that period of time because it’s, a foreign thing and what they’ll think they’re doing is meditating. And i need to just give you the primer of the difference. So meditation is about taking your mind and disciplining it to return over and over to a single point of focus, whether it’s breath or a guided thought or something along your candle. Now, the the analogy i use is that meditation is like taking your dog for a walk on a leash and you keep saying hell hell hell, you’re pulling it back to this concentrated point of focus. White space is like taking your dog for a walk and you take the leech off and you hit him on the button. You say go white space is about freedom of thought, improvisation of thought, and it has no parameters of what the mind is supposed to be doing. In fact, that’s how we ebb and flow around and end up a creative places is that we’re not on a driven reasoning agenda in which the mind thinks differently than when it has this freedom. So if we were going to do twenty seconds of white space, what we would ask everybody to do it, stop multi tasking for a minute, which they’re probably doing stop that, put all that stuff down, put both feet on the floor and take things out of your hands and just we would weaken time twenty seconds and just let them see how it feels. Let your mind go, okay? And i’m goingto participate, so i’m going to ask sam. Sam is not gonna get away space because he has the time to twenty seconds. Otherwise i’ll be looking to stop. Watching i want my mind won’t be frito race. And andi, i like the analogy of being hit on the butt too, with the newspaper. Okay, you know, before you do it’s great that you said the word race because just so you know, in your early stages of discovering whitespace, whatyou will mostly experience is just the blender of your mind. You know, you stopped the blender and all the stuff that keeps going rahr. So you just be probably thinking about what you have to do next and that’s pretty typical, but just see if there could be a little freedom or exploration and they’re not guided just free. Okay? All right. So sam is going to top janis. Janis will tap me on the knee when twenty seconds are up. And listeners, i hope you’re taking this to heart where we’re going toe. We’re gonna have a white space. Alright on, don’t we? Can i keep my eyes open? You can’t do anything right? It doesn’t matter because we’re not meditating. Okay, okay, why don’t we start sam? All right, that is our twenty second white space that we just shared its okay to share await space, right way. That goal is for individual team or organizational used so you can be on a person, a person level or larger and, you know, it’s funny as we’re having white space, what was occurring to me was if i could tell a little personal thing, i have three little kids and their little so i don’t go out much in the evenings, and i’m starting to do this new thing, which is wednesday night is mommy’s night, and mommy goes out and see it’s, i’ll go out of seven and see later, go to bed with daddy and it’s, a very new thing. When you’re very, uh, into your little kids, we tend to say, i tend to be home every night for bedtime. No, i was i this wednesday was just my third wednesday, and i sat there in the cargo have no idea what to do with myself. I am free, and i have no clue which direction i stephen drive and so the analogy that often people have a little white space and they just they sit in the car. Just i have no clue where they will go with it. And what i find them believed that the more we take it, the more there will be clarity in terms of what it should feel like. But that little twenty seconds is all it takes in between a meeting getting out of a car, finishing a tough emotion. Just those pauses. Mine was can i share mine? Okay, yeah. I went back to meeting someone. Who’s been a friend for years on dh. When we first met on the a train here in here in the city, i was on that. I don’t know why i was thinking of subway. And then i went to this meeting to meeting this dear friend alice who’s been on the show. Um and she’s been on and she’s been a friend for years. I don’t know. For some reason, i went back to that meeting her on the a train. And in addition to the pleasure of white space, the creativity benefit. I believe that when we left the mind, go in the nooks and crannies that it feels like maybe you start thinking about the subway and then you start thinking about alice, and then you remember that alice loved apple pie, and then you remember that apple pie has a double crust and you think, oh, my gosh, i’ve been trying to invent things for our computers skin that were inventing and it’s a double cross that’s the analogy that being and then suddenly you’re in the ah ha moment on that’s you can’t know where it’s going to lead and that’s part of the benefit on beautiful creativity that we’re lacking that were that were definitely hurting in and, you know, we’re hurting in a lot of organisational whitespace aspects to i don’t know how many of your listeners go to a place where lots of other people go during the day, but even the silliness of scheduling meetings from three to four and then the meeting that follows it from four to five in a different location, you have to be on star trek to go from that thing together. I don’t know how you do that, so that ten transitional minutes of white space in between two meetings allows an infinite amount of thought and rest and break to occur that that then leads to so many other wonderful things, so they’re khun b time centric white space, mind centric white space it’s, very nimble let’s talk a little bit about well and let me remind listeners i’m with juliet fund and she’s, a consultant to fortune one hundred companies and motivational business speaker as well as consultant, and you’ll find her at juliet j u l e t front a few anti dot com let’s talk a little bit about white space with kids your time with kids what’s what’s your message there. Well, it’s important to know that there’s a pretty strong separation in terms of when we’re doing whitespace for business. We don’t talk about whitespace for kids, but i have a personal passion about the fact that most children these days are busier than any fortune five hundred ceos, so and they’re incredibly starved for white space. They are incredibly starved for this improvisational creative time where we i’m saying, we don’t know exactly how old you are. Forty six we used to go out in the backyard and we just make stuff up for hours and and we made dragons and dinosaurs and demons out of nothing and in our minds, and that happened because of the vacuum of planned activity. They don’t have that now they go from thing to thing, to flute, to spanish soccer toe homework to karate to dinner to grip, and they’re always on their little mission. So it is a huge passion of mine to help families reclaim that unstructured time. Help adults figure out how to model in front of children that every second is not supposed to be a moment of activity and productivity and construct ihe vitti to just have some moments where there’s just open this, um, even the weekend for average families. You know, a lot of times the dad wakes up, and as soon as his eyes are open, his brain is flooded with the home version of his things to do list he’s got to do the gutters, he’s gotta do that duct tape. That piece of the whole he’s got theirs got all that and the woman is organizing in garage, failing and multitasking and going to birthdays and retirement party that we weak blood our weekends just as much as we blood our business day, and we don’t have enough family time where? We look at each other and just say when we feel like doing it’s like nothing, we feel like doing something spontaneous, i think there’s great interpersonal thing that we’re taking for that, um, how do we say no to the kids who want to be going from soccer’s flute, teo tennis? Well, there’s, two types of kids there’s kids that want teo and the kids that are being pushed to and in our, you know, very strange, obsessive progress these days from kindergarten to college, people are obsessed with their kids being forward, moving and the best of everything, and you know, they’re they’re working on their little resumes when they’re at the happy turtle preschool, making sure that they’re going to be in harvard someday. So, first of all, there’s a lot of mind changing that needs to happen in terms of letting kids be kids in my personal opinion and not necessarily cramming their brain full of so much learning so early, so they want to give them the force. Two kids, a lot of kids are doing a lot of activity simply because some adult thinks that it would be good eventually on their resume or just to make them quote unquote well rounded or smart or advance or impressive or something, those kids are very easy to remove activities from because they’re the ones going. Please, please, please, i don’t want to go to piano, please, please, please, i don’t want to learn japanese, they’re already saying, stop. Um, the kids who do have a great zest for life and they want a lot has to be disciplined the same way that we latto cookies and we say no to a screen time and we say no to a lot of heart things that they want at a certain time, and sometimes a glut of activity is not healthy in the same way that he died of all sugar is not healthy. How did growing up a cz the daughter of a celebrity inform your your work now? That’s such a fascinating question, you know i’m against on a baseline level, i’ve always been used to being in front of people on some level, so the early chops just becoming someone who was comfortable stepping up on stage and proffering opinions and performing and all that just came pretty easily to me. Um, i think it also let me get into the space of a lot of people’s heads because growing up on a diet of candid camera was, on one subtle level, all about the human condition, candid cameras, very funny, but in my particular case, i was growing up with an amateur anthropologist who wanted nothing more than to just keep looking at people. And what do people do and what do people think? And it became a part of my wiring to always be enquiring and studying, and i think this particular celebrity, with his particular expertise, ended up having a daughter who then was just constantly fascinated with people and that that’s good for a consultant and a speaker and a person who’s coming up with thoughts that might help other people, because if you create that all on your own dad without really, really paying attention to people, you can get very far off course. What else do you want to share about your work that that i haven’t asked you, juliette? Well, i think that we can’t we’re talking about the people that are probably in your lerner the listener population very, very committed to the mission doing the work for sure heart were talking before about them working at eleven o’clock at night, working after work is over, and this this profile e-giving loving non-profit professional is so classic, and unfortunately, it does tend to be a profile that lends itself strongly to skipping white one because it simply consolidating the jobs of many people and doing a second job, if you will, after the job, but also because when you lied from your heart, it’s, easy to make your own self care last and just keep giving and giving and giving. And so with those kind of folks, i’m always really focusing on boundaries where the lines after which e-giving mohr is actually not giving more. Where is it actually taking away from your levels of presence and enthusiasm and excellence to the people that you’re giving to and that’s a very delicate balance for if i understand the focus correctly in your audience, it’s a very delicate balance. Now i think you understand very well. Yeah, um summarized for us what? You’ve alluded to a lot of this, but what is it that really just makes you wake up in the morning that you love about? The work you’re doing well, what makes you wake up in the morning if my kids what i love about the work that i’m doing, actually, physically, literally, what makes me wake up in the morning is my kids. But what i love about the work that i’m doing is that it is a you said something with an antidote and oh, it was the woody allen clip about an antidote. It is such an antidote to this heavy we wait problem that is laying on top of so many people were almost forgetting, like some group memory, that we’re losing the probability that the the possibility that the day can include sips of pausing and daydreaming and thinking and recuperation, and we’re kind of co creating this reality where that’s not even possible. So what i love about white space is the opposite and it’s the anti message, and i think people are really hungry for it and it’s fun to talk to them about it because they light up instantly and they say, oh, my gosh, my organization could have a little more of that old fashioned thinking time we could do so much and it’s it’s, i get to be in a role where i am giving them permission very exciting. Give them permission to go back to something that they find so intuitive and that they need so badly. Julia funt is a comm insult in’t and motivational speaker and you’ll find her at juliet fund that calm juliette, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Thanks so much. Tony was really fun. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you. I want to send live listener love. We got more domestic and foreign live listener love waterford, ireland, hong kong cheung ching, china, shanghai, china teo teo to the chinese knee. How? Seoul, korea. Young son, korea i say yo haserot to denver, colorado, new bern, north carolina in brooklyn, new york, what’s going on. I love live listener love right now we go away for a brief moment, and when we come back, it’s tony’s, take two and then divine devices with scott koegler stay with me co-branding think tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get anything? Thing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! Hi, i’m ostomel role and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour eleven a m we’re gonna have fun shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a m on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto durney dahna time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour, i contribute to the fund-raising for non-profits blawg. I’m doing a series for them for small and midsize shops on starting a plan giving program. I blogged there once a month and i’m doing this siri’s step by step how to get a plan giving program off the ground this month’s is why i have a plan giving program case you need teo justify it to your vice president or you’re bored. Perhaps why plan giving is important. That’s what’s up right now, the block is at management help dot or gq or you could just google fund-raising for non-profits and they also have bloggers there on lots of different subjects. Board fund-raising social media fund-raising grants manship a lot of other topics and there’s more about that on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, the first of march. Unbelievable first of march, the ninth show of the year. How about some more live listener love before we go into this clip from from scott koegler what pocket wisconsin i love the w w wa baka wisconsin, new york new york finally calling would new jersey hello hello, kobe, japan in izawa, japan, tokyo, japan welcome konnichi wa and here’s the clip from scott koegler from last august divine devices we had a listener joined since the last live listener love. And so before i bring scott in, i want to say hello to serbia. Hello, serbia. Scott koegler how are you? I’m good. Tony, how you doing? Great. You’re not survey, are you? Uh, serbia? No. No, i don’t think so. No, we have taken a wrong turn. We travelling to south carolina today, so but i think when you’re in the carolina, you’re in south carolina. Scott koegler, of course, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find that end p tech news dot com and this months we’re talking about devices. Scott there’s tablets, there’s, laptops, desktops, handhelds. How do we figure out what the heck is good for us? Yeah. Kinda never extend, isn’t it? I used to be a pretty straight decision between desktops and laptops and that’s for real work. Those air still kind of the main options. But today, you know, you get, uh, tablets. And bones everywhere from three and a half inches, ten point, one inches long sighs and pretty much they’ll do all the same thing. But also pretty much all that same thing is, is usually less then, you know, real work, another one generally don’t have keyboards and those kind of things. So what kind of segment into those two categories? First, before you portable before you, scott. Before you do that, i want to point out, we know that you are the tech contributor, because you don’t just say screen size up to ten inches, you say up to ten point one, that extra tenth of an inch makes a difference. We’ve got to be precise. This is technology was the record, demands precision, and scott is the man who delivers it. Okay, i’m sorry, but it’s in a in a in interruption. Go ahead. So, again, in the form of unity passes on the kind of work you need to do obviously gonna be sitting in the office you can use either left up there and that that decision, general, i have to call back. Scott scott scott, stop for a minute. I’ll tell you what, you’re cutting out kind of badly. Give us a call back on the same number, but eight. One, eight, three, right? You know the number, but yours eighty one, eighty three. Okay. And while scott is calling back, i’ve got some more live listener love. Hopefully, he he taps quickly on those on the phone. Who else you got? Pittsburgh. Oh, i mentioned pittsburgh, germany. Okay. Um, new york city, new york, new york. Excellent. Finally, somebody from new york. How come nobody from new jersey? Where is my mother? My mother and father are not listening to this show right now unless they’re in lutherville, timonium, maryland. But i don’t think that’s them. I believe my mother and father are not listening. And ah, and this week is there my mom’s birthday and their anniversary? And i’m going out there and they’re not listening to the show. You believe that? I mean, i may not go. I mean, go school. We got scott back. Excellent. Scott, i don’t hear him. We have scott in the system. Scott o dial tone that never sounds good. Do i have to start and punishing my mother again? There he is. There he is. Okay. I’d rather talk to scott than admonish my mother. I’ll do that over the weekend. Okay, you’re going to break down our devices for us into two categories. I believe right. Let’s start with just desktop laptop as one category. And having said that, both of those generally well, i think, almost always have keyboards and keyboard is really key to the kind of things that people generally call work in an office or longfield but, you know, involves writing text using the keyboard for american trees and things like that and those air really much more suited to that kind of work than our, uh, tablets and cell phones and those kind of things. So, uh, the soft virtual keyboards that appear on tablets and phones were pretty well. But if you really need to get a lot done, you’re better off just having a keyboard under your hands. Uh, just, you know, more accurate. Better. Sure, sure. So it really depends on what you’re what you’re you’re functions are what you were like. What? Your goals are for the hardware, right? Exactly. Exactly. So let’s, just talk about the difference in key and, uh, laptops and desktops. One of the key difference of differences. There is the price. So the best tops are generally less expensive than laptops for a similar amount of power just because miniaturization that it is required to make a laptop cost extra money. Okay, i was wonder why the bigger one is less generally. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, they don’t care about the size. They’re just, you know, stuff all that stuff in there and stick it on the floor. So, uh, so that’s kind of one way to do that. So if you’ve got b b funds and you don’t need the larger screen that’s also available generally with a desktop, then you might want to opt for laptop because obviously it’s it’s portable and you can take it with you if you’re not always working at your desk. You khun move it. Otherwise other places taken home, take it on a on a scent or something like that. So there’s a difference there, of course. Sure, what else? Well, what about software availability? Well, software is always a key and a lot of software, especially non-profit kind of things are going to run on generally, windows happened windows operating systems, so that may even exclude using a mad uh, you need to really check your your software course. If you’re using a cloud based application, then you, khun pretty much use any kind of operating system doesn’t matter whether it’s windows or or mac or even kind of linux operating system. Very you make a very good point about what what platforms are supported by fund by applications that are important to you, there’s one that i using planned giving that does not support the apple os. So i have to have a programme called parallels on my apple computer to run windows just for that one program, but it is essential, right? Right, see that sometimes will dictate what you’ve done. And of course, once you’ve done that, not only have you spent more of your apple computer, but you spent more for the parallels, right? Exactly. So now you you know, you really enough there. So you really need to decide what’s most important to you, okay? And i i kind of touched on one of the reasons for getting a laptop, and that is the portability. And so now we start to talk about okay? What kind of jobs are you going to use that require portability? Uh, one that i think i said was that’s going to an event? Laptop is good if you’re going to have a table inside here. But if you’re going to be wandering around the event and you want to interact with people, take pictures uh, maybe do email sign ups for your newsletters. Those kind of things, uh, a tablet is probably the perfect device for that kind of thing. A smartphone, probably a little bit less than perfect, although you can certainly do those things. But again, you get smaller keyboard, you know much a little bit more difficult to use quickly. Okay? And there’s so many tablets out there. Besides, the ipad is the google nexus and the microsoft surface. Samsung has one, i think the galaxy i mean there’s so many. Tablets? Yeah, there’s a huge variety. In fact, while apples still dominates with the ipad, i just survey that the android operating system, which is what’s, used in pretty much every tablet except apple and the new windows tablet. Uh, so android is outselling apple. I’m a poor unit basis, so it just kind of the interesting. Yeah, so it doesn’t say if any better or worse generally means it’s less expensive, the devices, they’re less expensive. Okay, um, but at the same time, i’ve heard from a lot of people that it’s the application that counts, you know, if you can get to the internet and you can access the functions that you need, it really doesn’t matter. So look at your budget, see what it is that you need those the system that you’re looking at support the function you need and within your budget. Then go ahead and buy it, you know, they pretty much all work okay and the features on not necessarily just sticking with tablets, but just across all of them. I was looking i was when i was researching our segment on dh i actually do research. I know it doesn’t sound like it, but actually do research for the show and prepare the show. I found something the iphone headphones, you know, the white headphones that you get, and they have a little tiny panel on them built into the built into the wire and there’s there’s tend, i found a site that there are an article had ten different things that you could do with that little with that little panel like you, khun, if you tap the middle of it two times that’s to pick up a phone call, for instance, or, like, tap it once and that’ll put a put a phone call through to voicemail when you’re getting if you’re getting a call while you’re listening, and if you skip a song, you do a triple tap or what? It’s incredible just on this tiny little skinny panel the features on that are available, right, there’s? One more hidden one if you stand on your head and you stick it dunaj it’ll actually call your mother, okay? I don’t really appreciate sarcasm on this show. This’s i play things pretty straight. Pretty close to the vest. Now. Watch, watch. You know, sarcasm is a very dangerous thing. Uh but you know that point there’s there are many features on many systems, computers and even software, and the rule of thumb is eighty twenty, just like, you know, eighty, twenty rules where, uh, eighty percent of the people used twenty percent of the function. Yeah, just like you have an iphone, right? I do have that i do, and you’d never do those things. No, i didn’t know that i could ignore it. Incoming call buy-in long pressing the center button twice, so you know, i just i just usually hang up on it, but you know, you can do that. Yes, i’ve noticed, okay, what, we’re going to take a break. So when you were little chuckle mode here we’ll take a break, but i want to send more live listener love it’s it’s pouring in san angelo, texas, san diego, california, rockville center, new york. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We’re talking to scott koegler, the regular regular tech contributor about divine devices were going to keep talking about that subject. Maybe not with scott koegler might hang up on him after this break. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oppcoll dahna welcome back, scott. Kevin, did you hang up on us? I am still here. Okay, steer chagrin. Damn! Not yet. All right, now, all these features and all there’s about a pact with the stuff that most people don’t use, you have to. You have to wonder about what your employees are capable of learning. Well, exactly. And and how much do you want them to learn? How much extra time do you want have put in on finding out things that they may never use? Uh, there’s a big difference between buying a computer to operate your business and one for your personal life. I generally try to minimize the expense and the feature set of business computers because typically i you know, i’ve been unemployed. I need them to do three things for maybe five, generally, not twenty. And if i find buying something for myself on much more liberal in terms of the kinds of features and even the amount of money that i don’t want to spend interesting that’s an important distinction. Yeah, you don’t want to be thinking about you don’t want to be making that crossover. Yeah, this is this’s for other people to be using to be efficient in your business. Yep, exactly. And also, in terms of employees, abilities there, maybe training costs, but actually be hard costs not only in time, but but if, if the saw if the hardware is very different, i mean, you could end up having to pay somebody like the network it all together and then to train employees to operate the network and then as well as operate the devices exactly you want to make. It is standardized, as you can within the organization, so that one person could get up and walk in, walk to another computer and do the same job and not have to relearn. You know where the tabs on where the keyboard that’s, one of the things that happens between pieces and max, although it’s it’s less it’s less of an issue anymore. But, you know, the key and the maki kind of get confusing. Sometimes your people that try to make that transition, even though the actual applications may run exactly think yeah, yeah, i see that because my my office computing, his apple and all my clients use windows. And i do a lot of work in my client’s offices. Eso well, i’m and i have special challenges anyway, but talk about that’s a different show. Okay, there are you have some ideas for sites where we can find reviews. I love reading user reviews. I love that that the web enables that. Well, there’s two things that i would recommend one is just seen at dot com, which is not really user reviews, but they are there. I’m not going to say that professionally generated reviews, they’re actually automatically generated reviews, so they’re standardized. How they do that automatically is a whole other topic. Argast i used i used that scene. That site, those air not well, there you are, right. I knew they weren’t user reviews, but there isn’t a live person writing these things. Generally, not somebody looks at, um uh, really? Uh, yeah, they are actually generated by automated system. Okay, they pull your pretty well, um, i’m not sure right now they do a good job, but the other is just, uh, just do a search online for a review of this type in review. And then in the name of the product that you’re looking for. And, of course, the good part. About that is that you will get a just a huge list of possible reviews. The bad part is that most of them will be completely blow this schnoll and badly written so you never really know, you know, right now does like amazon dot com and you could you could go to amazon and read reviews, but not necessarily buy the product from amazon. Do that. Do you know if they do, you have to be legitimate user to review a product on amazon. Do you know you have to? You have to register on amazon, but you don’t actually have to have purchased the product. Okay, so that kind of, you know, in-kind negates some of the reliability hoexter tenses suggest that the credibility is not as high as it. What to be? Okay, right. Okay. But there are lots of consider. Well, there’s consumer reports. Yes. Yes. There are some, uh, some reliable reporting, you know, agencies, they used to be quite a quite a few more. In fact, i used to do computer and software reviews when i was doing, you know, muchmore freelance writing. Um, but, uh, those reviews have have gone away in favor. Of user reviews, you know, personally, i don’t think they’re coy’s reliable is my own my own wonderful ladies. Yeah, well, i can tell you and there’s probably a reason you’re not in that business any longer. Exactly. Yeah. All right. But now, you know, consumer reports, i subscribe to them for a year. I think i think it’s thirty dollars for a year and you can access all their online. Not not to the written subscription, but for the online. I mean, i go to them when i’m going to spend, i don’t know, like more than a couple hundred dollars on something. I go to consumer reports. Sure, their objective. They don’t have advertising. They don’t take advertising dollars. Yeah, so all right. Wait just another minute. A half or so before break before we wrap up. Scott, what else do you want? What else did i i keep you from saying i think, really the most important issue is, you know, people always asked, you know, help me buy a computer and i pretty much always start out with what’s your budget. Because it’s pretty easy to start looking and then, you know, feature creep sets them. And know what’s another fifty dollars here, what’s another hundred years there. And all of a sudden, you know that six hundred dollars desktop computer that i would actually do a wonderful job for you terms into a you know, fifteen hundred dollar laptop with, you know who knows what kinds of extra features agree. Okay, same thing is renovating. Same thing is renovating your bathroom. Your kitchen? Yes. Yes, exactly. Don’t you don’t need the stainless steel pulls on the kitchen drawers when? When grass will do just fine. Right? Alright. Hi, grayce. Okay. Excellent. Scott. Good time today. Thank you very much. Thanks for being on. Scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com. Thanks very much, scott figure and my thanks, of course. Also to juliet fund guest earlier. Um, let’s. See, next week, diane lansing. Principle of lansing associates. She’s she’s. Not going to talk about integrating your marketing and communications and using analytics to measure your short and long term outcomes. Also, maria simple returns seems like she was just here. That was the really a simple show, but she’s, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor not the host of the show frequent contributor and we’re going to talk with i’ll talk with her about recommendations for upcoming conferences live listener love, we got one left mexico city, mexico hola, welcome mexico! We’re all over the social web you can’t make a click without sparkle a testa smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio itunes, facebook, youtube, twitter linked in four square pinterest slideshare ah, on twitter, i’ll pick one on twitter i’m at tony martignetti you could follow me there, but wherever i see you, thank you very much for being connected, wherever that is. Thank you. You know, i also host fund-raising fundamentals that is a monthly podcast devoted to fund-raising i do it for the chronicle of philanthropy and therefore you’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy sight you’ll also find it on itunes, and the name of that podcast again is fund-raising fundamentals, our creative producer over here, a tony martignetti non-profit radio is clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media on our remote producer is john federico of the new rules oh, how i hope you will be with me next week. 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Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? 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Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you. Society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who wants a go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Dahna