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Nonprofit Radio for March 3, 2017: Prosperity Paradox

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Alexa Cortes Culwell & Heather McLeod Grant: Prosperity Paradox

(L to R) Alexa Cortes Culwell  & Heather McLeod Grant

Silicon Valley boasts 76,000 millionaires and billionaires and revolutionary innovation. Yet local nonprofits struggle to meet demand and suffer inadequate reserves. Researchers Alexa Cortes Culwell and Heather McLeod Grant explain the disconnect⎯and the lessons for your organization. Their report is “The Giving Code.”

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host we have a new am and fm outreach director betty mcardle she’s, based in portland, oregon. She has a long background in community radio, and she was recommended by her predecessor, gavin doll. I appreciate that, gavin, but he’s got lots of experience. She loves non-profit radio, so i know that we are in good hands as we bring mohr affiliate stations to the flock, the family, the foundation, the community very glad you’re with me. Betty, welcome. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with simpatico tonia, if you got me nervous with the idea that you missed today’s show prosperity paradox silicon valley boasts seventy six thousand millionaires and billionaires and revolutionary innovation yet local non-profits struggled to meet demand and suffer inadequate reserves. Researchers alexa cortez culwell and heather macleod grant explained the disconnect and the lessons for your organization. Their report is tthe e-giving code on twenty steak two i’ve got a plan giving webinar coming up. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com. I want to welcome alexa and heather to the show, but they haven’t called into our line yet, so we’re waiting. Sam, of course, is struggling. You’re sending them texts to sam. Okay, sam is trying to get them on the line. Wth e-giving code is their report, and this is based on silicon valley. New philanthropy and the paradox in silicon valley, where there is enormous wealth and enormous innovation and research going on, and yet silicon valley non-profits r struggling to meet what are actually growing needs, we’re going to talk about thea, the shrinking middle class in the silicon valley they ladies define the silicon valley with in terms of two, there are two counties, and we’ll talk about those that they define as the silicon valley area specifically for their research and the report e-giving code. So it’s ah it’s frustrating to hear that with the enormous wealth and, you know, we’ve got statistics like, um, well, it’s, a super rich place the number of millionaires and billionaires is has grown incredibly in six years from, like two thousand eight to two thousand thirteen, individual giving rose incredibly from, like two billion dollars to have almost five billion dollars, one hundred fifty percent increase the number of millionaires and billionaires now at seventy six thousand. In these in these two counties santa clara and san mateo counties, so enormous wealth and considerable growth in giving but the non-profits in those two counties, our ah are struggling. I’ll tell you what, we’re going to go out for a break and we’re going, so i’m going to try i’m going to regroup and see what sam has done, and maybe i’ll call the women myself and see what’s up with how come they haven’t called in to our line yet so let’s go out early for the break, we’re gonna come back with e-giving code and hopefully the two co authors of the giving code stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’ve got one of our co authors, i think, it’s, alexa, alexa, is that you? Yeah, okay, alexa, thank you, alexa cortez culwell, cofounder of open impact and a longtime philanthropy advisor, speaker and facilitator for the past twenty five years, she’s built and managed foundations and philanthropic initiatives for successful entrepreneurs, including serving as ceo of the charles and helen schwab foundation. She’s at alexa culwell and open impact is at open impact dot hi. Oh, welcome, alexa. Thanks for having me. You’re welcome, pleasure and honor to be with. Thank you. Is there gonna be calling in shortly? I am sure will be joining us soon as you can. Okay. All right. Well, we’ll see her on the panel. We have the dashboard for the the conference line. Okay, so let’s, then let’s, get get started. I gave a little overviewing while in the first block while we were waiting, hoping you were going to call silicon valley is very rich. I went through some some statistics about the number of millionaires and billionaires there. Seventy six thousand. But talk about the growing need. I didn’t. I didn’t cover this part yet. The growing need that non-profits air facing. Yeah, so we uncovered that there’s, this incredible growing wealth in the region and with it is growing philanthropy. And then there’s what we call a prosperity paradox and that’s exactly right. So it’s, this enormous economy and all of these wealthy people, and yet thirty percent of our residents are replying on some form of public or private assistant. Yeah, that’s! Incredible! A third. A third of residents need some kind of public assistance. Nearly a third. Yes, and one and one in three, which is a third of our kids are going hungry, so they’re on free. And reduced lunch programs. They’re accessing food from the food bank and other things. Um, what is the non-profit community like there? In terms of numbers and size? I know it’s ten, small and struggling, but give us more color than just that. Well, like the rest of the united states, the majority of our non-profits their small under a million dollars in revenue. And since in the last ten years, we’ve actually seen a lot of growth in the number of our non-profits almost thirty, one hundred non-profits in the region. And so and so we have a lot of non-profits a lot of small inns, and we also have non-profits that are struggling to get by. So they’re being displaced by this economy. They’re under siege and what’s. Interesting is not only are they kind of being displaced, they can’t afford actually operate in the region. The demand for their services is at an all time high, so people are on wait lists there being ah, dahna, you know? They’re just asking for help that these non-profits can’t keep up with that kind of thie irony of all of this and as a result, our non-profits they’re struggling, so they actually have deficit that are above the national average for organizations there and also being displaced from office base because it’s, the silicon valley on and i mentioned earlier san matteo in santa clara, county’s that’s how you define silicon valley office space is at a premium, so that’s costing them and that’s hurting them. Um, i have some of the stats from your executive summary eighty percent of non-profits reporting increasing demand for services over the past five years, seventy four percent don’t have access to high net worth donordigital works significantly hindering their outreach. We’re going to talk about that. The gap there, fifty one percent say they will not be able to meet demand for services this year and and on and on, you’ve got very nice multicolored summary there on page three of the executive summary, but of lots of lots of pretty colors in those in those stats, i like the electric i appreciate the color, thank you and think you’re actually reading the report and i do what you think of earth people to dig into our data. It’s awesome and there’s a lot of it. You think i don’t prepare for the show or what? What do you think? You’re very well off the cuff. Well, we haven’t. We haven’t spent the hour together yet. We’ll see what happens in one one fifty nine eastern rolls around. See if you still say that, but yeah, now the summary, i have toe critique a little bit because it’s my nature, i think the executive summary is a little on the long side. Sixteen page. I mean, i’m executive summary. I’m looking for like, two paragraphs. Well, then i won’t torture you with the full report, but it’s seventy nine pages of even more data graphics and deeper insight, and i really would urge people teo get into the executive summary and if and if they’re interested to really, really dig deeper into some of the analysis and implications for their work. Well, it doesn’t mean sixteen pages it’s a really tough topic and there’s there’s just i think we’re going to need to really kind of carefully consider these issues that were going to actually want to solve them. Well, i’m well acquainted with take point taken. Okay, now, but i’m well acquainted with the full report. I’ve read large pieces of it. I do not read all sixty nine pages, but okay, you know, executive. I mean, i’m a busy person. I don’t know. I’m sure you’re busy, but i’m busier. I need i need to paragraph executive summary. So, please, maybe you need a summary of the summary. Can you do that? Yeah, well, well, i think that somewhere you were pretty forward if we want to give it to people here and then they don’t even have to read the report. They can hear your interview. Go. Okay. Okay. I got it. Like i say, executive summary is the situation sucks. It’s bad and yeah, and we can do some things to help it. Is that teo teo to kurt? Well, i think i think that’s the set up to this report the set up is we have growing wealth and growing philanthropy in silicon valley. We haven’t even dug into that. So it ends up that all these wealthy people in silicon valley are actually giving a lot of money away where the disconnect is is that money is not making its way to a local causes an issue and the community based organizations, right, that kind of are the champions of those issues and those residents who need help and that’s the case in many communities, right? I think this is a trend we’re seeing across the country, you’re we’re seeing increased income disparity, we’re seeing growing need by the by the residents who are the most left out, and then a non-profit community that’s under siege. And so we’re interested. And yet we see this growing wealth and we think, well, are they giving money away? And if so, why isn’t it making its way to me? Where is this money going? And so in silicon valley, we track all of these statistics. We tracked individual giving the growth in private foundations the phenomenon called donor advised funds and also corporate giving. And there was mortgaging everywhere that was kind of the astonishing fact. But the majority of it does not go to our local organizations and heather’s now on the line, and can be brought into the call to add into this dialogue. Okay, sam, you’re ready way. Have heather. Okay, wonderful. Let me introduce her. Heather macleod grant is the other co founder of open impact she’s, a social entrepreneur, author and consultant with twenty five years of experience and social change. Both these women have twenty five years. Everybody’s got twenty five years today except neil fight host with twenty years she is. She is co author of forces for good six practices of high impact non-profits, which was named a top ten book buy of the year by the economist she’s at hmc grant and again open impact is that ah, open impact, dot io and also at open impact team. Okay, heather, welcome. Welcome to the show. Hi, tony. Thank you. And i apologize for the technical difficulties. That’s. Okay. Well, berate you later, it’s not, but not on the air. It’s ok, um okay. So alexa and i have been ah, diving in and let’s bring you in where? I guess we were really at the point where we’re saying that essentially the need is scaling much faster than the support is growing locally. Locally, that’s the point that election was just making heather let’s bring it in. Let’s bring you in with an explanation of what the giving code is, yeah, so the giving code, we talk about it in the report, and we talk about it being this kind of implicit approach philanthropy that many of these new donors have that is very much it’s, very much informed by their business background and experience, and they’re they’re they’re sort of expertise and technical companies, so for example, they’re very focused on impact, they’re very driven by metrics they’d like to measure outcome, not surprisingly, their innovative and disruptive, so they really like to think about, you know, how they can hack systems and change things like education or health care. They’re very connected and networked with their peers again. Many of these new donors are in their thirties and forties, they’ve grown up in the era of social media, they like to do things with their peers, so we see a rise and e-giving search kinds of group e-giving activities and you know, they’re they’re really again. Their approach to philanthropy is very much informed by their business background and experience, and so sometimes, unfortunately there’s a disconnect between this business like approach to philanthropy and the approach that community based organizations take yeah. And in fact, well, first, i want to make something explicit when we say they and they turned the donors were talking about newly wealthy philanthropist knew ah, high net worth ultra high net worth millionaires, billionaires in the inn, that to county area the way you, the two of you to find silicon valley there’s also ah, skepticism of non-profits heather, yes, absolutely. They look out across the landscape and they see this fragmentation among non-profit organizations, and they really think that non-profits aren’t being businesslike enough in their approach. So again, it doesn’t mean non-profits they’re wrong, they’re just not meeting the expectations of some of these new donors. Um, and and they do tend to be skeptical non-profits don’t inherently have scale. Almost eighty percent of them are operating on less than a million dollars in budget. That’s true for these two counties and it’s true for the rest of america as well. So these are the guys we’re used to running multibillion dollar companies, and they see these small, tiny non-profits and there’s just a massive disconnect you mentioned the growth of unicorns in silicon valley, which is the unicorn is a greater than one billion dollar asset value pre ipo and how the number has grown to twenty something right? I think in the region, yeah, there’s twenty one unicorn in these two counties now, i’m sure there’s i think there’s something like forty six forty seven nationally, but you know more than our almost half of the unicorns that we see now are here in silicon valley, and you’re correct those that’s kind of the local jargon or lingo for start up companies that have a billion dollars evaluation pre-tax haven’t, in two thousand eleven, there were three unicorns and twenty sixteen there were twenty one so again, just enormous growth in wealth and scaling. You refer to a bigger, better, faster, essentially, too, to summarize what the newly wealthy philanthropy philanthropists think and how they think, and then there’s the skepticism of non-profits of it, i mean, you don’t you don’t use this word, but would you say it? It suggests in a certain arrogance among these, these folks? Well, you know, some would say someone some would use that word. We wait, we don’t say it’s arrogance, i think it’s perhaps more ignorance or not understanding how. Social change works, but, you know, i do think some of these donors can’t come across that way in their approach to social change, they think, well, i built this billion dollars, you know, app that scaled in three years, i’m going to go fix public education, and they don’t really have an understanding of how complex social systems are, um, and again there really obsessed with scale and, yes, moving really fast and unfortunately, social change is an entirely different beast than building an internet company, right? It’s complicated and involved multiple stakeholders, you often have to find ways to work with a partner with government latto leverage the significant resources that are already in government, you’ve gotta engage communities, and you’re really trying to solve market dafs where they’re actually isn’t a paying customer sometimes, right? It’s, you know, solving homelessness is not something that you could do with the technical app, so so the complexity of these problems, i think sometimes pla mixes these new donors, and they do come in with this mindset of, you know, i felt this huge company, how hard can it be? And i think what we’ve seen many of them overtime. Bill gates, mark zuckerberg and others have learned that it’s actually really, really hard the’s air really big, intractable problems, and it takes time and it takes patience and it takes resources and it takes working in very different ways than just building an internet company. You and alexa are very nonjudgmental in the report, but it’s well, actually, tony, i’m going to jump it. I’m going to jump in here. It’s really not about judgmental or non judgmental, we find that not really going to help us get to a solution, and we call it the empathy gap because when people start relegating each other teo arrogant one percenters or social do getters, we find the conversation just stops and everyone walks away frustrated why heather and i wanted to write this report is we wanted to really probono deeply like, how could we get these two sides that are so disconnected? Who speaks such different languages who have such different mindsets and frameworks? How could we leveraged their strength to come together to really solve community problems? And if we stop at just going okay there too arrogant and you’re too much of a do better we don’t. Get to the solution, and the reason we wrote the report is we wanted to get past kind of those stereotypes and begin to bridge the empathy gap that is so wide right now. By the way, alexa, our listeners will know that earlier, when i said when i said i may be busy, but you’re busier. I mean, what did i say? I may be busy, you know, i said, you may be busy, but i’m busier. That’s what i said, listeners know that i was joking, but you might have rolled your eyes and said, who is this clown? But, you know, now i’m andi, i’m teo for twenty minutes, and yeah, he’s only takes about thirty seconds for people to recognize my i mean, i’m judgmental about myself, arrogant, certainly big doses of scare of sarcasm, so all right, we’re all busy, but heather, that was in the context of i was saying earlier, when i see executive summer, expect like, two paragraphs, not sixteen pages, and then the sixty nine full page, sixty nine page full report that i had to reed, you know, so i was that i was asking alexis to scale it down. But i understand it’s, a complex problem, and all right, but i expect to pay an executive summary. I was scrolling through the pdf. Is that what this is a summer? You need a. You need a summary of the summary? Okay, wait, we got a little ambitious. My last project was a book, and so i let you keep joking that i was trying to turn this into a book. So all right, well, you’re in the right trends in terms of least my attention deficit. So you know the next thing you could do instead of a report, maybe, just to a paragraph. Great. Well, we could try. I suppose you could sum it up. You could probably get into one hundred forty characters if you tried really hard, but yeah, basically, it sucks. I had said that earlier. All right, let’s, get to the to the challenges that you identify between that are preventing the two communities the newly wealthy philanthropists and the community based on non-profit organizations from coming together. Alexis let’s, go back to you. You basically the first one is they don’t they don’t know each other that’s how i know that that’s how i put i’m using my words you have different, you know, you live in silicon valley, it’s a pretty compact in place. We’re not talking about, uh, this enormous area, these air to counties and people live pretty close together. And some of our poorest neighborhoods are right next door. Some some of our wealthiest neighborhoods. And yet these two groups of people the ones who have all this capital and are giving it away, and the ones who desperately needed in order to help are most needy residents. They just are worlds apart. They have completely different networks and ways of thinking about place. And at the heart of it, it really is about community in place, so the donors are often globally minded. They’re working or running global companies, they’re traveling all over the world for those companies, and they will have homes in different places and relate and identify with different places as their home in community, whereas the nonprofit and community based organizations that we work with r really thinking about places, the place where we live and raise our families and our kids go to school where we go to work every day, and this is our community, and it deserves our attention, and it deserves to be healthy and vibrant for the sake of all of us. And so the social networks just don’t meet as often as you might think they’re like worlds apart, even though they may only be blocks apart. Yeah, you call it the more articulate that you called the knowledge and information gap. I was just saying they don’t know each other. Let’s let zach with you for another one. What you call the social network and experience gap. I just say they don’t have ways to get to know each other that’s, right? They don’t, they don’t, they’re not at the same cocktail parties, they’re not vacationing in the same places. They’re not even going to the same grocery stores, and even though they live sometimes within a mile of each other. That’s, right, it’s just a very stark contrast and kind of an odd conundrum, but it makes sense, right? I mean, there’s, a sense of place in community is different, and their social networks are really different. Let’s jump over to you and and continue this thread on the gaps that what you call the mindset and language gap, i just say it, they look at the world differently. Yeah, that’s, that’s going back a little bit of what i was saying before about this language of business and metrics and scale and that’s a language, you know that these tech entrepreneurs have come up and many of them have had almost no exposure to social problems or public policy or government or social work. And on the other side you have non-profit leaders, many of whom came out of programs for public policy or social work and who really speak a much more moral language, a language of ethics and social justice and taking care of the least well off. And so, again, we find that there is kind of a disconnect in terms of the language and frame works in the mental models, if you will, that the philanthropist use versus the language and framework and mental models that community based organizations in particular use and later on that that many of these community based organizations were serving low income population, sometimes there’s literally a real language kept sometimes these populations are speaking spanish or their low income asian communities, so you’ve got lots of different layers of disconnect, and and that leads to what we ultimately say is an empathy gap and that’s why we don’t like to use words like arrogant, we don’t wanna point fingers because we actually feel like that’s already happening too much it’s too easy to write off these business people is being arrogant and greedy and that’s actually oversimplifying and it’s not also taking their good intentions into consideration. We really think we need to get beyond the empathy gap, have each side try and understand the other in the world that the other is living in and that that’s what’s going. To ultimately help bridge the gap. Okay, perfect, ladies, we’re going to take a break for a little while. Your i have to do a little business for our sponsors, and of course we’re going to continue our conversation for the remainder of the hour. And now that we’ve talked about what creates the what the gaps are, you know we’ll spend the balance of time talking about bridging those gaps on the positive side and, uh, encourage you again to have ah, two paragraph summary of your executive summary, so stay with us. Ladies duvette there’s more of this prosperity paradox coming up first, i got a chat with you about pursuing because they have a new info graphic grow your monthly e-giving your problem, you need to raise more money solution in part monthly giving and that’s what the infographic is about. Ah, it helps you, whether you’re creating a program or trying to convince your board or your c e o of the value of a sustainers program or you need to grow your existing program and your fund-raising mix the infographic has got strategies to launch and grow tells you how long you can expect sustainers to stay with you and gives you tips for attracting new donors and there’s more to it as well. It’s all in mourning for graphic. Amazing, very, very highly concentrated, dense with value. And it is at pursuant dot com quick resource is my voice just crack get resource is fourteen years old quick resource is and then info graphics at pursuing dot com we be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising you need a fun millennial event, check out the video it’s from one night of spelling and stand up comedy music great fun! The video is that we be ee spelling dot com now for tony’s take two. I am doing a free webinar coming up later this month. It’s jump start your planned e-giving how to get started. Who the best prospects are were the types of gif ts that you can start promoting right away right away easily dispel yourself of the myth that plant e-giving is only for larger organizations and only for major donors. Both of those are incorrect. Both fallacies. I’m gonna explain plan giving simply ah, not using my legal background. I can explain it to you so that you will understand it. And understand how to get started. You know my focus is small and midsize shops that’s who the webinars for it’s on thursday, march sixteenth two o’clock eastern affiliate listeners there is time for you to be with me. I know sometimes the timing doesn’t work for you by the time i and i put something in the show and then by the time you’re your station airs, it may be too late. This one the timing is perfect for you it’s march sixteenth there’s still time you register at tony dot m a slash jump start your pg the link is also on my video, which explains a little more about the webinar and that video with the registration link is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two and i feel like doing live listen love podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections a little differently today we have listeners all over the country all over the world, but today i will instead of identifying city and state and sending love and pleasantries and affections, we’re all one big non-profit radio, family flock, not a church. I almost said church, not a church, but we’re one family. Whether you’re listening live right now or among our twelve thousand podcast listeners or among our am and fm affiliate station listeners, today, we’re one big non-profit radio family. So the love and the pleasantries and the affections go out irrespective of what your method of listening is. I’m very glad you’re with us. That is tony steak, too, all right, let’s, bring the ladies back, and, uh, you know, you, uh, you have something interesting. Anybody can comment on this, the you devote a page in the full report to the good wani brothers. They sold their company to netscape in nineteen ninety eight, and in two thousand three, the co founded a nonprofit to india community center. And basically, what i come away from that page is they recognize the brothers, recognized that this is hard work, having a non-profit. Yeah, i love that story in our report. And tony, it does prove that you’re you’re a much more diligent reader than you let on, because that’s all the way on page fifty for the report, but there was a couple of reasons we wanted to feature their story, their immigrant, uh, americans who came from india, they started a really successful company, that’s contributed to the economy in the valley, and then they decided to give back by starting a nonprofit that would serve the indian diaspora in silicon valley. That would be a gathering place for indians to come and to share culture and food and language and ping pong, which they love. And so it’s an enormous community center not unlike the jewish community center model we often see in the u s and they started the very first one and silicon valley, and we talk to them because we wanted to hear about there journey, starting a community based organization and also about how philanthropy work in other cultures and communities. And, you know, philanthropy is a rather novel thing to america, it’s part of our culture and its distinct distinct from other cultures and other parts of the world, and so they just shared how challenging it’s been to raise money from other indian americans around this really compelling non-profit that they’re building because they prioritize helping their families back at home. E-giving toe heart hyre roo i causes in india, where you can literally save someone play for set their whole life on a new trajectory by sending them to school for hundreds of dollars a year on get this incredible return. And so they’ve been on a journey to figure out how to build a sustainable business model for this very vibrant community center that they started some time ago. That was alexa, right? Or is that just alexis being? Yes, i’m a little disadvantaged cause you sound a little a little like, but i figured, yeah, that xero voices don’t don’t apologize, and i want to remind listeners that alexa cortez culwell and heather macleod grant are the co authors of this the of the study i’m called e-giving code and also co founders of open impact ladies, how come open impact your your your your consultancy around social impact and how come you’re dot i owe you? Didn’t you didn’t get in early enough to get dot com or dot or gore dot net, will you not dot org’s? But how come dot i owe on your for your very trendy, trendy and hip trendy in him, it is kind of the forefront of of the new. Yeah, but, you know, a lot of people buy up lots of names with dot org’s dot com, even though they’re not using them that we just went. Dad, i oh, okay. It’s. Another word you came? Yeah. It’s. Cool. Because why? Oh, i iove well, well, because that io is also open impact initial backwards, right? So it’s ah, it’s ah it’s a palindrome that’s, right? Oh, i i don’t. I don’t. I don’t know what kind of some kind. Okay, well, yeah, if you take just the initials but it’s not it’s, not a lie. Dot io it’s open impact, your honor name. We will tell you what, why open impact is such an important name and part of the value of the work we do, which is we think that non-profit leaders today are constantly balancing the tension of staying open and adapting to the complexity that they’re dealing with all around them, the external landscape is so volatile, but they’re also being required to really measure their impact and report that in clear terms. So we are really committed, teo writing and speaking and publishing about that. And we help our clients with that. Yeah. You have a very good video at open impact dot io who’s who’s fireplaces that that you’re in front of that’s. A beautiful fireplace. Is that one of your homes? No. That’s, a dear colleague of our living room. Okay, i kind of want to see the kitchen. I was hoping the second half of the video was gonna move into the kitchen because the fireplace is beautiful. Fabulous. Yeah. Labbate all right, maybe the next video, he’ll let you use the kitchen. Okay, let’s. Go back to the substance, though, so let’s, start bridging the gaps. I don’t know who want to take the first way, but, uh, you do something. You suggest something called connect to build empathy. We want to talk about that. Yeah, this is heather happy too. I’m happy to jump in on that. So so i do think bridging these gaps really starts by finding ways to bring these donors and these non-profits together and there’s a couple of examples in our community of organizations that are doing that we’ve also seen traditional intermediaries. Their role has very much changed in this landscape. I don’t think alexa touched on this before it joins the call, but just in brief our local united way has emerged, so we now have a bay area why united way that serving like twelve different counties and our community foundation is very nationally and globally focused on working with many of these donors on all levels of e-giving but not just community e-giving so what we’re finding is, as these intermediaries have kind of changed their role in the ecosystem, new intermediaries, air having to step in until some of these gaps. One example is to silicon valley social ventures, which was actually founded sixteen, seventeen years ago by laura, ari, aga and reasons and it’s e-giving circle, where donors actually come together, meet local non-profits vet them, they pool their money and their resource is so you don’t have to be a billionaire. You don’t even have to be a millionaire to join you can contribute six or seven thousand dollars pool your money with other donors and then vet local non-profits and find knows that you think are, you know, the most interesting, having significant impacts have leadership that you like and basically make an investment in that organization and what’s really great about this model is many of the partners in this e-giving circle actually take board seats or become mentors to the non-profit so this is, you know, one example, but we think it’s the perfect example of what we need a lot more with these opportunities for these donors to actually connect with these leaders, mentor and coach them start having a conversation where the non-profit leaders can teach the business with yours about social change and why it’s so complex and why it sometimes really hard to measure their impact, and at the same time, the business leaders could bring their technical and their marketing and their strategy skills, cities non-profit organizations, and really helps them be even more effective. So it’s again connection and learning together, we find it a very effective way to start. Bridget yeah, engagement if i put a five letter word to it, genuine up boat way just lose alexa, i don’t know. Heather used to with us, no, i mean, i’m here, i’m good, we’re here. Oh, you are okay. Whoever was whoever was listening on the call, the third party that wasn’t invite the third party that wasn’t invited, just dropped off. All right, they could have just listened online. It’s so much easier than calling the number. Um, yeah, and i think, you know, this is the section bridging the gaps that has the real value, i think, for our listeners, because these are things that non-profits can do in their own community. You know, there are lessons. That’s, why i wanted to have this conversation with ladies, because there are lessons for the entire nation’s non-profit community based on your findings. Just in two counties in california. What do we got? Well, this’s, alexa, you’re exactly right. I mean, the report is received a lot of national attention because issues of income disparity, issues of the wealthy and philanthropy, and the very unhealthy state of many of our local community based non-profits is something that is concerning in many, many cities, in urban areas and even rural areas in the country. So i do think we’ve been surprised at how much has been resonating, because on one hand, silicon valley is so unique. But, on the other hand, is part of the really odd story that we’re also so much like other places. Yeah, well, that’s, your it’s, a well written report, and that it comes out the value for the community nationwide comes out if i can call that a community. Oh, and all that national media attention has brought you to this moment non-profit radio. You see that, right? Yeah, and we’re grateful to you see that? Yeah, okay, what, i don’t know, whatever the national media you’re on, but it brought you two brought you here. So there’s, roger’s stepping stones, all right, let’s, let’s, let’s, continue to bridge the gap. Thank you for agreeing. You have no choice. I understand that let’s, continue bridging the gaps. Who wants to talk about creating educational opportunities in your your step two? Well, this is heather. I can jump in again. I mean, so two thoughts first on the like this resonates across the country mean, one thing we are doing, you know, we start to see up solutions in the report, but we’re actually starting teo focus even more on what would it take to implement execute some of the solutions in silicon valley? Because we actually do think if we can start to solve some of these divides here that’s a model that other communities might want to emulate, but going back to what you said, tony, i think it does come down to engagement, and one thing we’re realizing is that that both sides need to be educated that can happen through connection and experience are learning the both sides really need to build their capacity to engage with the other. So in this case, many community based on profits, they’re so resource strapped, they’re so focused on being head down, trying to serve the communities there, serving that often they’re not actually doing a good enough job of creating real donor engagement opportunities. Finding ways to connect into these networks happened to these networks. I get it that takes time and money, and when you’re serving the poor, the temptation is to spend all your resources on your program. But then you have nothing left to build your organization and build your outreach and build the donor engagement opportunities, or even to market and get your information out of these donors even know that you exist. So we think there’s education opportunities on both sides the opportunity to build the capacity of non-profits to be more sophisticated and how they reach out and engage these donors and how they have theories of change and strategies and how they measure their impact to the extent that they can and how they can tell stories used metrics, not just wonderful anecdotes, i think again playing both the head and the heart, same time donors need education to we were astonished as we talk to many this philantech how long it takes him to get up the warning firm, sometimes five or ten years, and there are some programs out there, the philanthropy workshopping one there are some other programs out there that focus really on donor education, but we need many, many, many more programs like this because there are many more millionaires and billionaires who are coming online with their philanthropy and our country stuck. They don’t even know how to get started, so so education can also be a stepping on dh, creating things. Circles are accessible and communities all over the country, and the data is showing that when a donor joins e-giving circle, they give more and they give more faster, they accelerate, they’re giving their more satisfied there, more confident, so really simple things. Non-profits khun dio is help think about curating e-giving circles or joining with partners, and if a donor is listening to the podcast, you know, joining a e-giving circle is just a a fabulous way to accelerate your impact. Also also just creating or seeking out volunteer opportunities, and i have to stop you. Alexa, hold on, we’ll take our last break. Hold that thought, please, andi will continue, okay, hang on. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m with alexa and heather, and they are co authors of the giving code that that is they’re reporting you confined their full report and the lengthy executive summary there’s my judgment, i’m not i’m not no, i am not nonjudgmental judgment confined the full report in all its robustness, both forms at open impact dot i oh, which is actually a very pretty sight, ladies. All right? And i do love the video. That’s a very good video of the two of you. Um okay, alexis, i think you had a thought that i cut off you wantto ex charity? Well, i was just saying that, you know, a creative thing for a non-profit to do would be teo curate e-giving circle on the cause that their organization is all about and to try to get some donors and learn about the issue and to learn how to give and donors likewise confined giving circles there’s lots of those in their communities. It’s an easy way. Easy, inaccessible way to plug in non-profits i think there’s lots of capacity building opportunities for non-profits and they really need to think strategically about building their capacity to pitch their organization proactively. So what a lot of donors told us is there often coaching non-profits on what they need rather than having a non-profit pitch some kind of anticipating what they’re going to need, and i think it’s pretty easy to anticipate what the donor’s need they want, like, a really clear narrative about what the organization does, and they want really clear numbers, they want to know very basic things in a very clear way, like, how many people do you serve? How deeply do you serve them? What’s the evidence you have that something is changing in their lives for the better, and how much does it cost to do that service and why? And non-profits really struggled to just step up and and frame those issues in a non apologetic way, never heather and i are out talking non-profits they they really struggled to just kind of state and the state it clearly, and so the best advice we can give in terms of educating yourself is to go out and really learn how to put together follow-up plan that you can pitch to donors that really anticipate their objections. Like, you know, overhead is a big objection donors donors often will express. And the leader who just, like gets ahead of that. You know, who really explains what the organization does and why how they do it so efficiently is really gonna win with owners versus one that’s kind of caught on their back foot trying to answer that question. Yeah. You refer to the overhead myth, and i thought we were i thought we were past this. I had back when this happened. When? When? Guidestar and charity navigator and better business bureau wise giving alliance. I created this problem. I had the three ceos of those organizations on and we talked about thea overhead myth letter that they all signed for the country. And this was back, like, three years ago. I think it was twenty thirteen. Are we not past the overhead myth among, well, let’s talk about the court you’re dealing with among newly wealthy philanthropists. Are they not overhead that? Are they not past that overhead myth problem? Well, tony, this is heather and it’s. Interesting. Because my book forces for good came out almost ten years ago and we started to take on the overhead myth in our book back then, and i think, unfortunately, even though those of us who are kind of insiders in the nonprofit sector feel like, you know, haven’t we gotten past that? Haven’t we said it’s really about impact and outcomes, not the inputs that it takes you to get to that impact? Unfortunately, i think some of these new donors coming online are not yet with the program, and these kinds of, you know, stereotypes and overly simplistic ways of looking at measurement, unfortunately continue to persist. But as alexis said, we’ve also seen amazing examples of community based organizations taking that argument and just flipping it on its head. So one great example. Peter forton bob, who runs the local boys and girls club in our community, serving literally thousands of low income students and kids and partnering with schools. He’s really been a subtle intra printer, and within the boys and girls club network, he’s really innovated around their core models and, you know, i went to a fundraiser they had two weeks ago, and not only did he have the ceo of youtube, susan would just be was a judge. On the panel, he had the ceo of lincoln in the audience, and he had cheryl sandberg is opener, the ceo of facebook. And when he got up to give the pitch to that audience, peter, by the way, has a harvard mba. It worked in tech. Former mackenzie really smart guys made some money now dedicated his life to service and running this grassroots community organization. So he knows how to talk to these donors. And he stood up and he made a pitch that you would hear kind of on sandhill road and the tony kind of blue chip venture capitalist offices. He stood up and he said, guys, this is not charity. This is an investment. This is an investment in the youth in our community. This is an investment and where we live, this is an investment in our future workforce. And by the way, we hyre top talent. We have a great organization, we have state of the art technology. We don’t work on twenty year old computers and guess what? That costs money. But if you invest in us here’s the return, you’re getting it on that investment and he walked through the numbers. Of the impact that they’re having, and i’ll tell you what, they raised a million dollars in one night in that room, unbelievable and that’s an example of what we don’t see enough non-profit leaders doing is getting out ahead of the argument, anticipating to push back and saying, yeah, you know, you want me to run a small, shabby organization that’s never going to scale or have impact? Fine, then we can talk about overhead, but if you really want me to have impact, you’ve got to pay for the things that it takes. So we would just love to see more non-profits in this country, learn from these examples and figure out how to do this and get on the front foot rather than being on the back foot. Excellent, excellent. Okay, we have we have just about, like three minutes left together, ladies. So and i want to get to the rest of the your specific methods of bridging the gap. Let’s just stay with you, heather, and talk about just in like a minute or so. Increasing coordination and collaboration among non-profits on dh and then also among i know that’s hard to do in a minute, but then also among the let’s, just talk about it for the non-profit just on the collaboration on the non-profit side. Okay? Please. Yeah, so this is all i’ll be quick, and then i’m sure alexis may have something to add as well, but, you know, i’ve done a lot of work over the last five, seven years of my career working on networks and collective impact, and we actually think this approach holds great promise when it’s done the right way because you have hundreds, if not thousands of tiny community based organizations, the answer isn’t necessarily to have them all merge because that’s not practical, but if you can get them more coordinated and aligned around the goals that they’re trained, the problems we’re trying to solve and setting shared goals and setting shared measurement and collaborating rather than competing against each other, you can actually have much more impact cubine also attract more resource is because donors look out and they say, oh, finally, all these small little guys, they’re working together on solving the problem that’s what i care about, i want to put my money into that so there’s a couple examples in our own backyard one called the big lift, which is an early literacy program for early childhood development, and they’re working with several hundred non-profits they’re working with school district, they’re working with the county government, and they have managed to create this kind of collective impact network. So we think again, we need to see more of this in our sector, we need to see more non-profits kind of stepping up and really getting aligned with other non-profits and coordinating rather than everybody kind of putting their head down and doing all right, you have, and then you have a fourth, which is building capacity and addressing costs, and we’ve pretty much covered that not under that rubric. We’ve talked about that so let’s, let’s wrap up with, we just have a minute left celebrating success. Please, alexa well, so whenever we see a philanthropist and a non-profit doing this the right way, we need teo tell their story. And in silicon valley, we actually have some really great stories of where this is working. Well, so it’s not all bad news. We have some extraordinary philanthropist who are commited locally and telling their stories why they’re committed locally how they give their money to smaller community based non-profits how they partner with them is just critical to raising awareness that it can be a great and satisfying thing to do is a donor and and go beyond just e-giving safe bets to your alma mater or to the things that are familiar to you. Stepping out of your comfort zone has huge rewards. Andi, start funding these organizations and we have to leave it there. Alexa cortez culwell she’s at alexa culwell heather macleod grant she is at hmc grant. You’ll find the report and the summary at open impact dot io ladies, thank you very much next week. Thank you so much for being a call. Alright next week doing good, better effective altruism for individuals with takeaways for non-profits of course, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz is on the board is a line producer, betsy mcardle. Is our new am and fm outreach director. Welcome, bette shows. Social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Do with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Kayman buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff latto deigned to add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation i expected to hell you put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for February 24, 2017: Your Online Approach Plan & Crowdfunding Law

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Tulani Elisa, Amanda Heidtke & Dottie Hodges: Your Online Approach Plan

Tulani Elisa, Amanda Heidtke & Dottie Hodges
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If you want to reach and engage effectively online, you have to plan. What’s the leadership role? How do you get buy-in? What about those who stray from your agreed goals? Tulani Elisa is with Threespot. Dottie Hodges and Amanda Heidtke are from Hodges Consulting. We talked at the 2014 Nonprofit Technology Conference. (Originally aired September 12, 2014)

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: Crowdfunding Law

If you’re raising money on one of these sites, do you need to register under state solicitation laws? Is it OK to give a gift in exchange for the donation? Can you raise money for an individual? Lots of issues for you, explained by our crack legal contributor, Gene Takagi, principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host we have a new affiliate station w m n b one oh, seven point one north adams, massachusetts hello northwest mass the call letters stand for western mass northern berkshire. You don’t see that very much with koehler’s actually stand for something, and they these call that it belonged to the original am station in north adams going back to nineteen forty seven what the world was like then non-profit airs tuesdays at nine a m w m n b welcome to the non-profit radio community. So glad to have you with us so glad, in fact, that i’d suffer the embarrassment of knocked old human yuria. If you let me down with the idea that you missed today’s show you’re online approach plan. If you want to reach and engage effectively online, you have to plan what’s the leadership role. How do you get buy-in? What about those who stray from your agreed goals? Tulani elisa is with threespot daddy hodges and amanda heidtke e r from hodges consulting. We talked at the twenty fourteen non-profit technology. Conference and this originally aired september twelfth, twenty fourteen and crowdfunding law, if you’re raising money on one of these sites, do you need to register under state solicitation laws? Is it okay to give a gift in exchange for the donations? Can you raise money for an individual? Lots of issues for you, explained by our crack legal contributor, jean takagi principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group i told you, take two sincerity and my hair. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here’s a panel of three smart ladies on your online approach plan. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen we’re at the marriott hotel, the marriott wardman hotel in washington, d c and with me now are tulani elisa, daddy hodges and amanda heidtke e tulani is social media manager for threespot daddy hodges is president of hodges consulting and amanda high key is director of digital strategy at hodges consulting. Welcome, ladies have all three of you your your workshop topic. His strategy is not a four letter word how setting a plan for your online approach reaps rewards tulani let’s still you’re closest to me let’s start what what do you, uh, at threespot? What do you think? Some of the shortcomings are that not necessarily at threespot, but that that non-profits generally are not strategic enough about what should they be doing? A lot better? You think so at threespot we design websites and make social media strategies analytic strategies in digital strategies for non-profits for ngos, for government organizations. So that’s what we deal with all the time. Ah, a lot of the time, what happens is non-profits think we need to do social and then they don’t think we should happen approach. We should make sure to go about it the right way. We should do some pre planning, they just kind of want to get into the space because it’s so fast moving fast paced on, always changing. So a lot of what kind of we are going to be talking about her panel is really you know how a digital strategy could play out things like social media? Eah, or website design or any kind of approach that you have online. So a lot of times, it’s the kind of leap without really knowing what snacks in. So we want to talk about what you do before you leave. Daddy. I imagine you see much the same thing at hodges consulting. We do. And you know, i think tulani is reference to what we call shiny object syndrome is one of the biggest players. Also kind of the collective sense of, you know, we’re looking at things from a organizations perspective. You know, our program work our mission. How were structured as an organization, the content we produce. But we find increasingly organizations need a little help and seeing it from sort of an outside perspective in terms of who are we trying to reach you? Our target audience is what are they looking for? And then what do we want them to do? What’s what? The engagement components that we want them to accomplish. And so having that sort of step back first really helped productive strategy gain results in the end, that shiny object syndrome you mentioned. What are some of those shiny objects that you see, clients? Reaching for you name a twitter blogger, we would read it. I mean, just last twenty sites. Yeah, we want this amazing he website that does everything from soup to nuts and really what they want to do is find out what that target audiences that will reach their mission will reach and do that thing, not try to be everybody’s everything not trying to be the website that gets thie program directors needs met the executive director’s needs met the needs of the membership services department, but rather figure out what the organization’s mission is and how they can leverage that website or that social media project and used it to get that message out, which is what the audience wants, not necessarily with the organization thinks s so we should be thinking about what our constituents are on doll in all their different varieties what their needs are everybody everybody’s nodding? Yeah, definitely really important for organizations to stop thinking like organizations and more like their constituents and and thinking about what they want to hear and the people that are looking at there. So so the media pages or their blogger, their website and what really connect. With them. And you can do that easily through doing audience research through, you know, going through and seeing you know what posts and what content is really working, resonating with people. What are they engaging with and and what’s not working? And how do we change that? And you can also really look at the landscape and look at your peers and say, okay, what are they doing that we’re not doing that’s working, you know, and it’s? So much of it is really, you know, taking what you see with your own stuff, taking what you see from people that have the, you know, the best in class work and saying, ok, this is working for them. How can we, you know, do that for our own selves? Actually could even go so far as to be sharing their content that you see doing well. Let’s, let’s give a shout out to our our colleagues over at whatever the other organization is that for? For sharing this mean, or, you know, whatever exactly it could be sharing content on dh using, you know, third party content is always a good way. Teo, you know, get people to show. That you’re a thought leader, and to show that you’re someone that really, you know, knows what’s going on because you’re observing other people in the space and it’s also a good way, you know, most people that are in design and articulation, you know, you’re stealing from everywhere, you know, and and then you’re you’re making that into something that works for you and that’s, okay? Because what you’re doing is is kind of making, showing that you understand what’s happening because you’re actually going back, creating your strategy and saying, oh, they did this, how can we work that into our goal of, you know, fund-raising how can we work that to our goal of awareness? So really, you know, yes, very party content, but also really using those things up for your own and making that your own as well to fit into your strategy? Okay, daddy, how are we going to get started in being more strategic and invoking the bomb? I’ll tell you what, it’s, not for start there. Uh, it’s, not panic. It’s, not panic central and i think a lot of organizations look at the different challenges or the different needs or perceived needs of the organization and and have a little bit of that panic moment. How do we start? How do we begin to know what to do? First, what tactic to pursue and so are you approach essentially is to say, we’re going to take a step back and look across the organization collectively, this is the key word right and agree upon what our goals and objectives are as an organization are our priorities to dr membership, which is okay, you know, let’s agree that that’s call it what it is and agree that that’s the case, is it advocacy, direct actions or some combination and getting everyone collectively to head nod in the same direction about those goals and objectives to then say, okay for that objective, let’s look at our audiences and do the research tulani is talking about to then roll out, and we could talk a little bit more the later stages, but i want to actually have a man to talk a little bit about, you know, sort of getting those heads nodding in the right direction and how that happened. Well, now, that’s the critical piece, okay, i know you’re president of hodges. Consulting, but i’m the host of tony martignetti you do what you like way are going to get that because actually i want to deal with the how twos we don’t want only be at the theoretical devil, right? But i do want to ask you a question about leadership if we’re going to get all these people seated around the table and ultimately, which could be a bit of a process like, but ultimately agreeing, we’re gonna have to have leadership heimans buy-in to this to this process, absolutely leadership engagement is critical, and that might be at the executive director level. It might even be the board involvement in some cases, depending on how the organization works but making sure that there’s a team assembled. We call it a core team that is generally a smaller group that has the authority and autonomy to drive the process because we want leadership engage, but we also don’t want leadership to get so involved in the granular pieces, let’s say we move forward with a website redesign, and we’re talking about those very particular components. We want that core team that have the authority to move the project forward and then engage others in the organization as appropriate, you know, external audience research, whatever it is, but that engagement of the leadership, the organization is critical to move the project forward and what’s also important with leadership. A lot of times you’ll see it’s that non-profit is really getting them to buy into that strategy like you were saying, so having them understand, you know, this strategy is going to help us reach this goal or this is, you know, this is what the r o is going to be. This is the return on investment that we’re going to get out of doing this out of, you know, making our website better or having a blogger doing that kind of thing and then showing them those results afterwards. So a really important part is to set metrics and to have analytics and to say, you know, we want to do this. We don’t want to put out this picture just hits a pretty picture of something we want to do this because we know this picture is going to get a decent amount of shares that’s goingto connect to more people, that’s going to get us more donations, so so really, like daddy was saying not being too granular, but showing them the bigger picture of, you know, here’s what we can get out of this, you know? And i would add it’s not even just getting their buy-in but it’s getting them to stay focused on what the goal of the project is, whether it’s a website redesign or a social media campaign, having served for eight years as the director of online operations, that trout unlimited, which is a large, large non-profit that has chapters and councils all across the country as well as the national office, and they all want to work in concert together and leverage digital media, getting everyone in the room together to pick a few key goals and then too, pursue a project with that premise so that every decision that you make along the way happens with the vision of these are the goals were trying to meet. And when you’re making a decision along the way, it has to meet that metric and that goal because it’s, very easy for non-profits internally, too have shiny object syndrome, but past that, too also change their mind midstream mid project about what? The goal of it is about it’s, horrible and it’s rampant. I find that having worked on the other side of the table worked for a nonprofit for so long, it was very hard to keep everybody who needed to be have that by and focused along the way as to what the end goal really is. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast after the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way so before we even get to what? What? What daddy was urging. I turned you to turn to you for and we will. We’ll suggesting it was it was an admonition. It was actually morning on admonishing me. I i that’s how i took it. He’s always talking about i am a leo. Ok, i see. I see my perception was not unbiased. On based what? Okay, so before we get to that, but what? What do you do when the cats start to stray and different different or teams within the organization start? Tio dahna convert the goal. Onda work. You know, i think converting the goal in the work actually is okay. As long as everyone is going to agree at the same time that the kitten, the herd of kittens, is moving in a show and it’s all justifiable on organizational basis across all departments, not just from our perspective in our department. Absolute. What do you do when somebody starts to stray? Well, well, i love having the key mission, and i love having the metric decision. So one of my favorite components of any strategic task is to have the metrics by which you’re going to gauge if it’s being successful and that does help keep the organization on task, because if you’re all looking to get the same piece of data and the same result, what the result is from it, you can kind of keep people focused on heading down that path. The trick comes in when your goals aren’t clear enoughto have a metric to follow it up by, and so making sure that your goals are very your tactics have very specific goals and that the actions you’re going to take to reach those goals are very well defined and that’s the strategy that a lot of non-profits don’t they? Don’ts don’t put their heads around what those tasks and components look like and understanding what those are before you dive down into a any project is critical to the success of that project. Give me an example of what you just said take it from from your own background or ah hodges, consulting client, whichever you like. Sure so from my own background, trying limited recently did a very large website redesign and by large, i mean, they scrapped the old site and started afresh on dh, perhaps the best. Example i have of that is the decision that was the website school going to be specific to growing the membership? Or was the websites gold going to be specific to growing? Engagement? Peer-to-peer engagement and the gold changed throughout the life of the project. So as a website redesign was commencing, the goals went from, are we going to simply grow our membership uses to drive increased donations through a membership drive to you know, really, what we actually want to do is create this peer-to-peer network of of people across the country who are engaged in our mission and offer them a place to do that electronically, digitally, through a website. And so it was a subtle shift in focus. Now, ultimately, i believe the organization was it was right, because the by creating that peer-to-peer network, you will in fact grow the membership it’s a different timeline, the tactics that you would take to grow the membership if that was simply your sole goal, are much different than the tactics we would take if your goal is to create a social network on buildup. Peer-to-peer right? And, you know, you kind of also asked a kind of not give credit, but understand that things in the digital, especially social media but all digital space are changing so much and so quickly, and people are doing so many different things that situations where people lose track of what their goal was or what they were going towards can happen so quickly, you know, you see a competitor, you see someone that, you know, your organs, they should admires, and they’re doing something that wasn’t in your strategy and you’re like, well, maybe we should be doing that, or maybe, you know, and everyone gets that not just the pang of envy, but that paying of, like, we’re missing out, we should be doing this, we’re behind where this and that’s, what the digital space kind of makes you feel like and so, as amanda was saying, you know, when you’re able to say, ok, we see this we’re taking account, how do we put that into our strategy? And also, how are we willing to hurt these cats in this direction? So that it saying, okay, we have to acknowledge that maybe this is it isn’t something that we thought about from the beginning, but it’s something that we can do we can work with because we still have that base, that strategy, you know, that the key words, the ideas that were following being being flexible, working within your, especially when non-profits work within the different programs of the organization to find ways to be tactical through a digital media it’s okay, too get off track a little bit if it meets a specific need in purpose along the way. And i think to you found that a lot of times as we went through this eighteen month provoc project that that subtly shifting it when you work with a program staff who has a very unique need, but it would fit in the metrics of the project or working with the development team so that their their goals were met even though fund-raising wasn’t perhaps the ultimate be all and all but that they still had a very hyre viable program, and they needed digital focus. It was fine one more. One more thing on the goals, too. When we talk about getting an organization to decide on priorities, the first thing we say is it’s okay? We’re not saying we’re not going to do these. Other things, but when we have to make decisions about, you know, the user experience or prioritizing even projects against one another, you know that we will let those overriding goals lead, that we will still be doing these other things, they’re not going to be scrapped entirely in the same with reaching different audiences when they do the prioritization. All right, so now, in my own good time, i’m going, and i’m going to turn now to a man i’m just giving you shit that you don’t. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so don’t that’s not true, it’s not thank you, but, uh, okay, amanda now maybe maybe it’s similar to what happens when people stray but let’s go to how we’re gonna create this process way have the leadership that daddy made clear is essential. How are we going to get all the different program fund-raising finance and business all the interests to agree? What is that process, doctor? What’s. The start of that process at the start of that process is, without a doubt having your technology lead on staff talk, teo the equivalent lead in every program area whether its development, major gifts, administrative, human. Resource is program, every person needs a voice at the table and i found the most effective way to do that is get everyone in a room for a full day workshop and you spend the day going through it’s it’s really and airing of the grievances i really, truly is what it boils down to. Everyone needs a minute to talk about what the websites not doing for them and what it is doing for them and to talk about what they wanted to do. And when you start to do the airing of the grievances, i always imagined what would happen is it would just be horrifying day, and it actually wasn’t it really put a spotlight on what some very specific areas of problem, where digital for the organization and with dottie’s focus around how that day was constructed, we ended up with some very clear problem areas that allowed us to turn around and come back and say, ok, these are the areas that seemed to be the problem now let’s talk about how we can effectively fix them and what everyone did was when they got their chance to air their grievances, they felt heard. And then the next step was buy-in getting all of your primary decision makers to share what was wrong, then turns around in your benefit and allows them to feel buy-in in the process, they now think their needs are going to get met because they are. Ultimately what you want to do is meet those needs through your digital strategy. You hear what’s not working for every one you say here’s ways that we can meet them well, let’s, prioritize those and then once you do that, you have your vision. Now you have your strategic vision. Now our organization says here’s what our web site didn’t do here’s what wasn’t working for you, here’s where we wanted to go now we have a vision, we’re all now working together, everyone now has that collective head nod. We’re all looking the same way we all have the same focus and then it’s just working through a series of tactics to get to the end result and that’s really? What? Dotty’s what daddy’s company brought to tryto limited was this very clear process that we would go through. Everyone was going to agree everyone’s heads were not in the same way. And then we move on from the strategic the strategic vision to tactical that efforts. So so, trout unlimited was a was a hodges consulting clients. And then you must have been such an evangelist. Yes, right. Yeah. Immediate buy-in. Well, eva, what daddy was doing that she hired you away. If i had been the director of online operations for eight years, so my time had come, i had run my course that try to limit it. It was it was a great organization, it’s a great organization were doing with us and we still have the man’s a client. So it’s all very good. Okay, excellent. All right, now i had mentioned on office that i’m having a hard time seeing how the website impacts then so help me out. I had mentioned bringing to this table finance finance? Yes. And the c f o in the business. What does the money? What? How does the website or even relate to them? I think it’s a little bit of how it relates to them in the overall of how the website relates them and also how the process relates them. So a lot of especially a man who is talking about is also the process of how do we get everyone on the same page? So what we do is threespot is that we do stakeholder interviews and see, you know what people are looking for, what they’re not getting, what they want, that kind of thing and the way something like finance please in is that if you’re hiring from outside or even if you’re doing it internally, there’s a lot of money and time and energy that goes into a digital strategy, a website, hiring people, that kind of stuff, having they’re having their perspective and having, you know, is it worth it? Is not that kind of thing? Also, in the thought of what if one of your goals is raising money or doing something like that and working with, you know, the finance team to say, okay, how much money is going to be worth it? You know, how much is is it gonna matter if we do this? And we raised, you know, five thousand dollars like, is that still impactful? Like what? You know, what really matters? So i mean, everyone really has a rule and it’s important to kind of as a man who said not ignore that because you don’t want to come back, as were talking about before you’re coming to the leadership in your coming to people on the board or something like that, and they’re like, well, this is not what we expected but it’s not what we wanted or just not answering any of our questions or, you know, it’s a great website, but why do we have this? You know, you should know better evangelize er for your mission than your staff, and if every staff doesn’t feel bought into your end product, then you’ve not done your homework. And so making sure that the director of human resources, which needs to post job openings on the website, has a clear and free way to do so is critical for that end product and on lee, you know, let’s, just say your primary goal is to drive membership or to build community that doesn’t mean that you’re going to do that to the detriment of process or efficiency for other staff in the organization that program director who’s still trying to do a very small, focused niche of your mission needs as much buy-in and as much voice in the process as the executive director, everyone needs a voice on the tape. Yeah, go and that’s, just the way you mentioned the power of the process really is part of it as well, not just the outcome. Amanda, you were talking about that earlier where, you know, people collectively begin to see, you know, if i’m a director of development, obviously i have a pretty clear priorities for the site, right? But if i’m suddenly at a table where maybe i haven’t really been converse in our, you know, had the opportunity to work alongside directly finance, hr, whatever, whatever we’re collectively, we start to have the conversation about the good of the whole, it really changes the perspective. Everyone still got what they need to get done right at the end of the day, but it really helps that perspective so that everyone’s kind of starting to look in the same direction. One of the examples i had it that for that try to limit it was to really sit and listen to membership services. The people are are on the frontlines answering the phone calls from people who are giving online or doing any number of tasks to the website and really hearing from their perspective what their feedback is specifically from the members where the sticky points are what they have to put up with when the fund-raising team puts out, you know, one hundred thousand emails or what or the the advocacy team puts out an action alert on an issue what the reciprocal event is for that person and it’s very, i think it’s very common for non-profits for programs and teams to work very siloed you have your task, you have what you do. You sit down and do it there’s not a lot of opportunity for the hole, for the whole organization to come together around a single project except for digital media thes tend to be the kinds of projects where the entire group the entire non-profit as a whole has a stake in the outcome. That really is where elektronik transcends a lot of what any non-profit does, daddy, i’d like to talk a little about the details of this this strategic day. Are there boardmember is there? Is the board represented in that or no really? Just just senior leadership? No that’s, a good question and can be historically, we have not seen that not by my design. Typically you get, you know, unengaged executive director seo, whatever the role, maybe you get, you know, the sea level in director level heads of departments in that sort of workshop environment, often times at key points with clients, for example. And amanda mentioned the strategic vision deliver herbal. It could go by other names. I think threespot uses a different name, but basically that’s, that touchstone document that says here’s, what we’re gonna accomplish together that’s the kind of document that often gets elevated to the board level. So oftentimes when we create a project timeline, one of the first questions with the core committee is okay. Who are decision makers who needs to be involved at certain touchpoint what are those timelines? We have a quarterly board meeting coming up, whatever it may be so that we can structure the project around that and get that buy-in you, like teo, do these offsite typically it’s on side of the client? Sometimes virtual were a fairly virtual company, actually. So it tends to be a real blend. And it really we look to the client. To dictate what their preferred, you know, method is okay. And, uh and you are the facilitator for the day. Yes, martin. Okay, what? We have just another couple of minutes or so. Let’s. See, uh, once you must leave cem cem parting thoughts let’s see two money? Let me ask you for money. It sounds like it sounds like threespot does more than just build websites. I mean, you’re sounds like you’re deeply engaged in the analytics that are going toe contribute to to the design of the website. Yes, threespot way started off mostly doing websites, but we also do social media consulting strategy sometimes requires in housework. I’ve gone to work for clients for a while, we do analytics, we do content creation and content strategy, user experience. And so it really kind of just range is everything which is again goes back. Teo, you know, you’re not just building a website, you’re creating experience, you’re creating a strategy, and so, you know, if we just build a website and we didn’t have conversations about how social plays into it, how we’re going to launch it on social media once it goes up, you know what? The you know, the analytics that we’re going to put behind it, you know how those going play and we’re going to google analytics? Are we tracking out all the links? You know, that kind of stuff, then you’re kind of just doing part of your digital strategy on dso threespot is an interactive agency, it’s, not just a web design agency, and we really, you know, make sure to touch on all of those things, and so it could be, you know, going through and going through every ounce of content and saying, ok, how do we have to change this? How do we migrate this over that kind of stuff? And it also could be coming up with a robust way to show analytics to the board, you know? So it really there’s there’s a lot of different things that we do all right on daddy wanted to leave us with some parting thoughts about the importance of the s bomb, sure, so the importance of yes, bomb i think in the context we’ve been talking a lot about in the context of web development, which is certainly applicable, we think of it a little more broadly and just echo what tulani saying about looking at the big picture that, you know, the bomb is in a four letter word? It’s not a dirty word, it’s not something. Where, you know, you hear someone say we need a strategy and people go, oh, you know, and they just think of many, many months and many, many stacks of papers that may or may never get examined, digitally or otherwise, and we want to create something for the organization that’s very viable, you know, creates and produces a road map, you know, creates buy-in ultimately gets to better product that’s gonna have a better r a y for the organization and and the truth is, we kind of cheat because we like the framework so much we use it for lots of stuff, whether it’s, a website, project or an organization says we need to look across the enterprise at what we’re doing with our digital program or we kind of just need any communications plan of attack, we’ll apply the same framework, so we think it works across the board, which to me means it must be at least relatively solid, and it also just helps to always say that it’s a working document. So understanding the digital space is changing all the time, you know, making sure that, you know, you create these documents in this strategy, but, you know, really bite-sized people, this is a working document. You know, another platform might come up for another way to approach fund-raising might happen. And really, you know, having people be open. Teo yes. So strategy, but it could develop. They can change and being willing to evaluate whether that new platform belongs in in our suite or or not exam avoiding that shiny object syndrome. All right, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much, ladies. Thank you for having us. My pleasure, tulani elisa is social media manager at threespot. Daddy hodges, president of hodges consulting. And, uh, the newest. It sounds like the newest employee of hodges consulting. Is that correct? Is amanda heidtke. She is a director of digital strategy there. Thank you again very much. Thank you. Thank you. This’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc two thousand fourteen the non-profit technology conference. Thank you very much for being with us. Crowd funding law with jean takagi is coming up first. Pursuant, have you checked out there giving outlook report? They bring in data from several industry reports, and they put it together with their own informed perspective as consultants to give you precautions, opportunities and questions for discussion in your office or with your board, you’ll find the e-giving outlook report at pursuing dot com click resource is and then content papers. I like the idea that these could be discussion points for your board. Valuable. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out their latest video? Lots of checking, checking to do this week all valuable you’ll see live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling, of course, and raising money from millennials who are having a great time at this party. It’s at we be e spelling dot com now for tony steak, too. Videos of this week is sincerity are your thank you sincere. Last thanksgiving, i got two messages that we’re trying to thank me and wanted to thank me, but they failed because they added in promotions and solicitations that really made them suspect and it’s pretty phony sounding actually plus, in this video, my hair makes a final cameo appearance a stranger kicks it literally kicks my hair down the beach. You believe that? Um, is not attached to my head anymore, but still, i think it deserves some modicum of respect for my hair, but it didn’t get it. You’ll see it. You see it with sincerity. The video is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two for today. Let’s. Do the live listener love, et cetera, et cetera. There’s. So many live listeners. It’s, it’s. Remarkable was starting domestic new york, new york multiple love that unless you’re all neighbors written the same apartment on the sixteenth floor and just three of you making me try to make me feel good but about not live listen love to new york, new york. Where else? Tampa, florida monroe, new york, upstate. Cool. Monroe. I think i got it. I think i got a traffic ticket once in monroe or monroe township. If that’s you well, you’re still welcome. Ah, send love to you, but not to the officer. Ah, would ridge, new jersey love my home? State checking in woodbridge. Thank you. And seattle, washington. Way up. Pacific northwest. Love the seattle a for that. What was that? Look at that airport lately. I don’t know, but they’re seattle live! Listen, i’d love to you, let’s goto we’ve got we’ve got someone in american a territory i believe these were called territories and this is in in puerto rico. Come, we cmu y i’m probably not pronouncing right, but puerto rico is with us live listener love to you first time listeners, puerto rico as far as i can tell, live love too puerto rico, japan, konnichi wa multiple japan multiple u k of course we don’t know which country could be well whales or ireland or scotland or england. We don’t know. I’m not getting myself in hot water like i did last week before over welchlin his english so live with their love to the listeners in the uk. Also germany. We’ve got multiple germany, gooden dog! We’ve got rods! Grodd, bulgaria. Remarkable bulgaria welcome and also in the caribbean santa domingo, dominican republic welcome and what else we’ve got? We’ve got bucharest and protest e in romani, romania. I love it. And brussels, belgium is with us. Ah, and sao paulo, brazil i know it’s, not san paulo. Les americans called san paolo. No it’s. Sao sao paulo, brazil welcome for us. Welcome live listen love to you as well. Probono gado, we got to do the you know, jean hang on there, gene. So many people to thank. I got to send the love if i could live listen, love i’ve got to the podcast pleasantries how could i go do one without the other to the r twelve thousand podcast listeners twelve thousand plus, of course, but it’ll plus sign after that third xero twelve thousand plus podcast listeners pleasantries to you. I am very, very grateful that you are with us and the affiliate affections, of course. Got to say again. Welcome to our newest affiliate, w m n b in western mass northern books here, but all the affiliate listeners throughout the country on our am and fm station family. So glad that you are with us now we bring in. Jean takagi has been waiting very patiently, but i have to send the thanks. Gene he’s, the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, california. He edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and is the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding. Non-profit lawyer, i’ll avoid the joke about now being twenty seventeen and moral resting. I think i did that already. He’s at g tack on twitter. Jeanne, i love you. You know i do. Welcome back. Thanks so much, honey. How are you doing? Wonderfully it’s. Terrific. It’s a good day today. I went to the beach. I went to the peach. I went to the gym before the show. Always get that, like there’s. Endorphins flowing. I love it. Um, how are you doing out there in california? It’s a beautiful day have been getting a lot of rain out here lately, which i guess we needed. But it’s a beautiful day today. Yeah, not as much as you’ve been getting, like, four inches an hour or something. Yeah, way. All no floods and mudslides and things, but okay, i’m glad you have a beautiful day today. I hope you’re not impacted badly by the flooding and stuff. All good here. Okay. Okay. So we’re talking about crowdfunding law today. Um, now, let’s, just make sure that ah, we, uh we know some of the biggest sites i think for non-profits. Check me. Check me on these donors. Choose where actually, charles best. The ceo. There has been a guest on non-profit radio. Go, fund me, andy. Go, go. Crowdrise and i want to give a shout out to someone else had been a guest on the show, the ceo of deposit, a gift, then ostomel do those ring true to you for non-profits? Yeah, absolutely. Although i think indy go goes now, rebranded itself for charity and generosity, but yeah, those are all major site. I did. You know, you’re right. I didn’t update. Yeah, indiegogo slash generosity. Is that them? Is that right? Yeah. Ok. Ok. Thank you. Check me on that. You wrote a very informative article, which were were touching pieces off for ah non-profit quarterly. And by the way, i got the executive editor of non-profit quarterly is going to coming on the show very soon. Roof roof, right? Yes. Your article is, uh, understanding crowdfunding after a tragedy, and you’ll find it. Uh, listeners will find it at non-profit quarterly dot or ge understanding crowdfunding after tragedy. Okay, you point out in that article that this is becoming crab and funny is becoming huge, like it’s it’s approaching or by twenty twenty five. Is going to surpass what global venture capital is today? Yeah. It’s amazing. I think it was productive to reach in two thousand fifteen, which already past thirty four billion and looks like the world bank is projecting nineteen. Ninety six billion dollars. Buy twenty twenty five. Yeah. That’s remarkable on that’s. The number that i think is your article says is twice what? The, um twice what the i want to take this correctly with the global venture capital industry is today that’s correct? Yeah. Remarkable. I mean, well, people are generous, you know, what can we say? People throughout the world wanna help causes now, sometimes you have to be careful where that money is going, what the cause is or what the person is. We’re going to get to that. So, um, you like to differentiate between businesses and charities doing crowdfunding? Yeah, and that’s actually a really important point. So, you know, not all of that, you know, thirty four billion in two thousand fifteen or the projected ninety billion plus in two thousand twenty five is going to be for charity. A lot of that, um, is going to businesses that are looking for funding. To build there cos it’s a new way for startups not just to seek venture capital money from very wealthy individuals or institutions, but now to go out to the crowd just to go out to regular people, uh and and asking them to invest a small amount of money or a modest amount of money, but which might be actually a kind of a big deal. Teo somebody you know who doesn’t have a lot of wealth t back back ideas that they love, and they might love it for pure business sake. Or they might love it in some cases because the charities involved. Yeah. Now that’s you ah, this is called investment fund-raising investment crowdfunding, where there may be an equity stake available to you as a as an early participant in this startup idea, right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Okay, cool. Now we want to focus on donation, crowdfunding and and a little on reward. Crowdfunding. Why don’t you explain those chris? Sure. So donation crowdfunding usually involves asking the crowds. I’m just going to go call the internet audience that that goes on to the site and looks it you’re solicitations as the crowd. You just go on to the site and have a page that’s asking for a gift of donation. It might be for a particular project that you have, or it might be more generally just to support the charity on dh. So that’s that’s sort of broadly donation crowdfunding rewards crowdfunding is kind of a little bit of, you know, within the realm of donation crowdfunding so it’s kind of a subtype of donation crowdfunding in one way in that you’re usually soliciting some sort of gift, but you’re goingto also promise back to anybody who gives you a gift, some sort of reward, and sometimes that reward is a negligible value, just like you might get a sticker. Oh, our coffee mug for, you know, a major donation that you make or, you know, the pbs type of gifts that you get for becoming a member of pbs and donating to them and sometimes it’s actually a more substantial gift where you’re going to get, you know, a new product that’s coming out from the charity ahead of the real market that’s out there, that’s going to purchase it when it when it’s fully launched our concern around these crowdfunding solicitations. Is something that’s, you know? And you’ve said to his near and dear to my heart and you’re well acquainted with it also the requirement whether to register in each state under their charity solicitation laws, because once this website becomes active and live, then you’re soliciting in all fifty states because it’s visible in all fifty? Yeah, i mean that’s a really good point. Let me just, um, looking face about whether, you know, simply having a site, i’ll take it back a few years and say, if you just had a fight with a donate button, are you really soliciting in states if you get no contributions from the states, so it gets a little bit, um, questionable whether having krauz pending sight, even though visible to residents of every state, is actually soliciting in that state, let alone you actually do attract, um, somebody that contributes to your campaign um then i would say, yeah, you’ve now triggered it you’ve now solicited in that state, and particularly because you’re going to have some communications going back and forth with with a resident of the state. So technically speaking, yeah, even even once, once you’ve launched that crowdfunding. Site. And then you receive ah contribution from resident in that state. Technically, you may fall within that jurisdiction, although, you know, for the legal geeks out there. There’s still minimum contact. Saand, whether state can actually regulate you if it’s just a really tiny, like donation. If you got five dollars from wyoming, does that mean you have to register there? Probably nobody’s worried about that. But we got something. You create some issues. You got something against wyoming. Is that what you’re saying? That’s fly over territory way may have live. Listen, we don’t have not in wyoming. Wait. No, i not incorporated or formed and which is not already registered. If it’s soliciting out side and gets a contribution from outside that state. So i didn’t mean to pick on why at wyoming other and has a great example of generous people. And you are more precise than i am. Which is why you are our crack legal contributor and i am not. What i should have said is you are potentially soliciting in lots of states, all the states when your when your web page goes live, that really depends on the definition of a solicitation. And in some states, as you said, gene it’s, how much you actually get back, whether it’s, big and dollars, or biggin proportion to your overall fund-raising. So there’s, there’s nuances there, and you are good at pointing them out. That’s, why i have you on to keep me clean, so i really should have said, you’re potentially soliciting. Ok, we got it. We got to go out for the break. When we come back, you and i’ll keep talking about crowdfunding law. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and a a me levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, tap trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m melanie schnoll begun managing director morgan stanley philantech management. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I am the imprecise and inarticulate host. Gee, takagi, thankfully is with me, jean one understands want to wrap up this state’s solicitation registration issue with this comes up a lot for me when i speak on the subject. The question is, what if the site where we’re crowdfunding says they take care of charity solicitation laws? I always encourage charities to go a step further and investigate what they actually mean by by that have they actually registered in all fifty states? Um, what’s your what’s your feeling on that if the if the site the platform says, oh, we took care of that for you, it definitely got investigate that way further. So there are special registration requirements from professional or commercial fundraisers, andi, if they’re if they’re serving in that role, they’ve got to figure out if they’re properly registered and that may not exempt the charity from also registering there. Just because you’ve got a professional working in that state. The other way that it might be done is if the is the party that you’ve contacted is a charity itself and running a donor advised funds. Ah, and network for good is an example of a donor advised fundchat pretty that attracts a lot of charities. Teo, use their platforms or widgets. T raise funds on behalf of them. But it’s not technically on behalf of them, they’re actually raising money for themselves and then re granting that money to your charity. But they have the legal discretion of whether do that or not. Now they almost always do that. So long this year, compliant with laws and still ah, domestic five a one c three entity but it’s definitely worth more investigation. All right, let’s, move to the reward. Crowdfunding. And what the implications? Maybe if a charity gives a ah a reward, give something in exchange, let’s, start with the insubstantial, the mug, the sticker, et cetera. If we were doing something in substantial, what? What are our potential? Pitfalls? Liabilities? Well, you know, i guess one thing is to define what insubstantial is. So you kind of think if you were giving just a very small sticker that was really worth nothing, then you’re probably not worried about it at all. I used to mug is an example. Maybe that was a bad one, because i guess it depends upon what you’re giving to get that. So if you made a five dollar contribution and you got mugged, they got back a mug that was worth five dollars and that’s probably a sale that’s probably not a donation that made and getting a gift back in return. And every state may view this in a different way, and it gets really, really interesting from a lawyer’s perspective, but complicated from ah charities perspective when they do, when you know, e-giving example in washington state, i believe, you know, if you made a five hundred dollar contribution and you’ve got a shirt in return for that, um, on the shirt was worth let’s, say, twenty dollars, um, under washington law, i think what it says right now is that if the minimum contribution is five hundred dollars to get that shirt that we think you should pay sales tax on five hundred dollars for that shirt because five hundred dollars, really a portion of that is a donation, i think there’s a bill in process in washington to correct that. Okay, good. So the laws are behind all of these just like new mechanisms for fund-raising and giving back rewards even though they’re there quid pro contributions on under the irs. So the irs and federal tax law has sort of recognise this for some time, but for sales tax purposes and sellers permit purposes, the states aren’t completely onboard, and crowdfunding is just exploding the way these things were used on dh the states air catching up. We’ve got a live listener in seattle, washington. What do you people doing up there? My god, you’re out of control, all right? But it sounds like they’re trying to remedy it. So that’s that’s okay, um, there’s a bunch of stuff i want to talk about. So what? I’m going to suggest we all do if you have questions about the quid pro quo thing related to fundraise related to crowdfunding at irs dot gov just searched the phrase quid pro quo contributions and there’s a page that comes up and tells you what your substantiation requirements are. If the gift is two hundred fifty dollars or more for the written acknowledgement and what the acknowledgement is to say, search that phrase that irs dot gov quid pro quo contributions jean will you permit us to leave that leave that topic there? Yeah, actually, maybe if i just throwing one last thing the irs considers a low cost article an artist, something that that’s of a token amount on dh certain items if they don’t exceed ten dollars and seventy cents, and that that amount is that adjusted every year. But for two thousand seventeen, if it doesn’t exceed ten thousand ten dollars and seventy cents in the contribution was at least fifty three dollars and fifty cents. I might be going into jargon jail there, but those are the two thousand seventeen figures, then it’s it’s sort of not counted as a sail for unrelated business income tax purposes, and so that’s something to think about, and also for deductibility of donation purposes. So something to think about, if this states would use that as guidance in terms of determining whether that’s a sail for their purposes as well. Okay, now that’s not jogging, joe that’s detailed that we don’t have detailed jail because details where the sale’s important toe fifty three dollars and fifty cents for twenty seventeen. Okay, all right. You didn’t hear me because we have this digital. Systems so when you’re talking, you can hear me. You don’t hear me call you an anarchist, but i wanted you want i don’t want to be dishonest and do it behind your back. So sort of because i know you didn’t hear me say it. Okay? Let’s, go to the individuals. Can. This is interesting. Can a charity? Oh, we just have a couple minutes left. Holy cow. All right, kenna charity raised money for an individual and we only have, like, two minutes left. Jean e charity conspiracy money on individuals who may be distressed or, you know, who fall into a charitable class, right? But they can’t actually tell their donors that the donors khun direct their donations towards a single individual. If the donor wants the deduction on their gift, if they want a deduction, it’s got to be a gift to the charity and it’s up to the charity to determine which individuals that it wants to help. Ok, you can certainly use an individual as an example of a class of people that you’re going to be benefiting. Of course. Right. Exactly. Okay, okay. So that’s cool. So yeah, i mean, it makes sense. We we have charitable deductibility is for charitable purposes, and individuals are not charities. Is that is that the basics of it? Yeah, that that is on dso. Crowdfunding is where? There’s a lot of abuse of this in terms of a lot of charity. Say, you know, you can raise money, you know, for this individual donate and we’ll send it to this individual. Just click on which individual you want us to send it to not technically done properly, but you might find a disclaimer in there somewhere that says, we don’t really mean that, and you’re really going to give to the charity. Okay? We don’t really mean that. All right. Um okay. So what we have seen we have in the man. We have a minute left with gene. Okay, what are you saying? Me? Three minutes or one minute? We have. We have thirty seconds. All right, then, jean. We’re gonna leave it there. How about that? Have a great talking with you. Okay? I thank you for holding my feet to the fire and being the precise attorney that you are and counter acting the loose lipped host. Thank you for that. He’s. A. Managing attorney of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group read the read the site, go to the block non-profit law block dot com and find him on twitter at g attack next week. The giving code what you can learn from this report on silicon valley philanthropy i mentioned mentioned that the gene one if he’s if he’s familiar with this, but anyway report on silicon valley philanthropy there are lessons for you from this. We got the two co authors on next week live. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com welcome again, you have men be one oh seven point one fm in north adams, massachusetts. So glad to have you with us. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. I got an announcement coming next week about our am and fm affiliate outreach director. Hang on show social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein, you’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for February 17, 2017: Don’t Burn Out In 2017 & Personalized Video

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Paul Loeb: Don’t Burn Out In 2017

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Paul Loeb has been doing social change since the Vietnam War and his most recent books are “Soul Of a Citizen” and “The Impossible Will Take a Little While.” After nearly 50 years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day-after-day, especially in a time when nonprofits may suffer federal cutbacks. We talked at Opportunity Collaboration 2015 in Ixtapa, Mexico.

 

 

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with ad elect assists if you deflated me with the notion that you missed today’s show, don’t burn out in twenty seventeen paul lobe has been doing social change since the vietnam war, and his most recent books are soul of a citizen, and the impossible will take a little while. After nearly fifty years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day after day, especially in a time when non-profits may suffer federal cutbacks. We talked at opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen in x top of mexico and personalized video or your videos engaging and deepening your donor connections. Are you taking advantage of video personas? Is video part of your donor onboarding and retention strategies? If you answered no to any of these, michael hoffman and jonno smith can help you. Michael is with c three communications and jonno smith is from make a wish america we talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two is your thanks sincere? We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is paul lobe with advice on not burning out. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen we’re back on the beach in x top of mexico with me is paul lobe he’s, the author, most recently of soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while, plus three other books before those those two have sold over a quarter million copies, you’ll find paul lobe at the impossible dot org’s polo. Welcome to the show. Glad to be here. Thanks. I’m glad we’re together on the beach. I want to talk about avoiding burnout. A lot of your work for decades. Going back to the seventies is in activism. Citizen activism, right? Um, taco, actually, let’s. Start with a cool story that i heard you tell about rosa parks. So it’s. Interesting. Because rosa parks is the sort of story that everyone thinks they know. You know i can go. I can be overseas and people know the name i can talk to eleven year olds and they know the name. Oh, yeah. She’s the lady on the bus. But what’s interesting to me is that most people know in a certain version and they know it as one day she was writing on this bus and sort of just feed retired. She just refused out of nowhere and single handedly launched the civil rights movement. You know, all by yourself is this lone heroic woman. And i get very frustrated when i hear that story because it strips away the context that’s so important understand that actually is much more empowering that that story and so i look in there several elements there’s the one he is that’s, their mistake, the element of community. So she at that point is the secretary of the end of the civil rights organization in montgomery, alabama. And she has worked for dozen years with the p co founded by her husband. That particular chapter was a barber in the city and she’s doing these sort of humble towns, like getting people to come to meetings and all the stuff that certainly is not going to make the history books. Or the network news or even page six of the local paper. And when you take that away and you take out all the other people that she’s working with, it becomes a sort of lone crusade, which is very much a mythology of our culture. I mean, you know, one of things i sometimes bright lad in the language around social on ownership is lone hero super person. Yeah, but she’s, part of a community that she’s built there’s, others in it. There’s ah, a union organizer, gotomeeting nixon who’s, the head of the local. At that point, he’s, the person who gets a very young and relics on martin luther king involved king is all these excuses. He’s young he’s, new in town is thing was reluctant to join. He was reluctant to join. Yeah, he’s reluctant step for we think of them as leaping forward, but at that point, he has not really fully he’s not embraced that path. He’s still, you know, well, i i’ve got divinity school. I’m going to be a minister and it’s not at all clear that that’s going to be his direction. So he’s looking, i think warily at it and there’s a phrase i used the perfect standard, which is the notion that you need to know everything be the perfect place in your life, be the combination of sort of albert einstein, gandhi, king wonder woman, mother grace, you know, add seven other people, you know, none of us is ever going to get there so and it’s also about the perfect time and place and, of course, he’s saying, well, it’s, not the perfect time in place. I’m too young, i’m do knew all the excuses, you know, in his case elements of truth, but he’s their excuses. And so it’s nixon, who persists, gets king involved, and montgomery is where the world hears the king as well as in rosa parks. So when you strip that away and you make it the long hero, it ends up, i would say, being very disempowering to people, even though think it’s an inspiring story because they have to be as her work as a perceived princessa rosa parks perceived rosa parks as opposed to the real heroism which is doing the stuff day after day after day. Um, and then the second element is that they think it is. A sort of accidental action one day, her feet hurt, but there she wasn’t. The first person refused to move to the back of the bus. There was a young woman who was actually unmarried and pregnant. They just died not from the youth section, not to build a campaign around because they’re up against enough as it is latto strategic decision and these parks had got the summer before arrests, going to trainings at a place called highlander center labor and civil rights center still going in tennessee despite being burned at once by the group klux klan and so she’s meeting with an earlier generation of civil rights activists smaller move but still certainly present and when she acts it’s intentional, intentional doesn’t mean she knows the outcome. I always said that there’s a two, two aspects one is, you’ve got to have a leap of faith. The minister, jim waller’s, from the social justice magazine sojourner, says hope is believing in spite of the evidence and then watching the evidence change. Yeah, so, you know, by your actions, you change and you have believe it faith about the possibility, but right next to that is intentionality, which just means you’ll be strategic. So you’re looking at you’re saying, ok, what do want accomplished? How do we get there? Who are allies are the obstacles? How do we get the resource is how do we carry it out? How do we tell our stories? All the practical stuff? Of course they had to deal with that montgomery and and when parks took that leap, she also knew that it was going to be part of intentional campaign. They would run his best they could. And, you know, they’d see where lead and it is. Yeah. I love the story because of the intentionality aspect, and that leads us to the social change work the people are doing now, right? And where we get to the potential for burn out in all this day after day after day after work that is so intentional and so time consuming, right? And and so and so emotionally fraught. And the stakes could be life and death and disappointing. Yes. And i just ate pointing. Yeah, yeah. You know, never enough resource is all of those kinds of things. So so i think there’s a third element. That’s missing is perseverance, which is okay, you know, twelve years, if she gives up in your tender rate, we’ve never so and so and so that that carries into that question of burnout persisted. You have to keep going. So let’s spend some time talking about sort of empowering people toe, right? Not burn out in their day to day work as they’re going about their struggles. Where? Wherever in the world yeah, you, uh you believe a lot in, uh, support and they do, and the disempowerment of isolation isolation is the killer. I mean, when you feel like you’re the only one you’re up against every but when you change it to okay, we’re up against a lot, but there is a way and the wii doesn’t have to be thousands of people. It can be three or four people that are the ones that you rely on, but it’s so easy. I mean, i i find myself i run a project that i found it that gets students engaged in elections using the resource is of the colleges and universities. Shut that out. What’s the name the campus election engagement project. Campus elect a door ad it’s really demanding on dh. You know, resource is and on also sometimes, you know, really hard personnel situations and, you know, because this comes up, you hire people and sometimes problems like you and i remember one particularly acute situation, which really, wass i mean, it was just the kind of thing we are going to details that just wrenches your heart wrenches your soul on it had the potential to destroy the organization and and just trying to deal with my own. And then, you know, call. I talked to a friend who we have really wonderful street newspaper in seattle where i live real change that where homeless people sell it and it’s partly professional staff partly almost poses a great model. And, you know, i just called my friend who who ran it was like, ok, tim, why don’t i d’oh it’s like, you know, you really you know, this is something that you can’t you’re not large enough to handle the son, you know, you know, when you know, you just hear this, you have to be ableto, you know, hard as it is to say, this person can’t be apart the organization because, you know, it’s just this otherwise you’ll be in constant crisis, so we need to have support. Yeah, it could be it could be colleagues similarly situated right in the community or across the country, right? Yeah, could be, yeah, with funders even made the tech with the technologies we have, you know, it doesn’t have to be geographically focused. Yeah, but you do have tohave and you have to have a team of folks. I mean, on the other side is we’re doing, like, i mean, i’m asking people in my election project to basically take the culture of us college or university, get access to the administration, and we go in through sametz works that they tend to work with, but even still, you know, and the student government convinced them to do something that they haven’t done before, or now that some of them now they have done because they worked with us, which is to make a priority of registering their students to vote and getting to reflect on issues and helping them turnout at the polls in all non partisan is this school has to be done lorts ad and i mean, we’re just think, okay, here it is, here’s how we’ve done it before go do it and so it’s hard. So, you know, part of even like working it’s harder working virtually, but we have our conference calls each, you know, in the heat of it every week and me, we’re gonna do a video or we don’t go hang out or whatever, and we’re supporting each other. We’re appreciating each other’s successes were brain streaming through the through the project. We also have coaching the cohesion in the group is what sort of were being extremely were being extremely intentional. The cohesion doesn’t happen automatically were laughing and making jokes talking about, oh, did something cool happened in your personal life? Two be able to sort of give people the sense that it’s not just because in our particular case, they really are physically on their own there’s not somebody in an office, but they’re off on a college campus know weather off where they happen to live, and then they’re either talking by phone or visit making site this is tow campuses, but they don’t have the calling next to them. So we try and very intentionally create that community because otherwise they would they will burn. Out, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna about in in recruitment, there’s gotta be there’s gotta be things that you look for bringing people to the organization that are going to help create this cohesion, you know, it’s a good question, i’m not, and i wouldn’t say i’ve always been perfect at it. I would have had my share of a fallibility, but i do think that, you know, as i learn and we all do, you know that being able to i mean, have a strong sense of self but also know that you’re not going to do it all on your own know that you’re going to be working with others no, that have a sense of humor. I mean, if you’ve got a sense of humor, helps help cement slim and you see people in just, you know, dealing with the hardest i lost the vote, heart wrenching situations and there’s a sort of i mean, somebody called gallows humor, which french trenches humor has in-kind wartime or whatever guys get you through it’s so important in prison culture, they talk about the brotherhood of suffering, yeah, it helps to be that cohesive group, right? And so, you know, one of the stories i tell in the impossible, take a little while. Um, is, you know, they’re breaking it robben island prison in south africa, you know, they’re telling mandela and all those other folks, you know, you are going to rot here, the world has forgotten about you, you will never leave here alive, and they isolate him in every way they can. And so they’re breaking rocks in a prison courtyard, and they start whistling a freedom song and just just that, you know, okay, we’re not allowed to have this political conversation, but we all know what this means, and they’re they’re ice. They’re denied newspapers and, you know, further isolate him. And they said guard who’s got his tuna fish sandwich wrapped in a newspaper and throws, you know, sandwich stores in his paper in the trash, take it surreptitiously under their shirt. They see a story that they think might give each other heart and in a kind of coded script on toilet paper’s only paper, most of them had access to the right, you know, just something that will tell that story of the outside world so that people are connected to the outside world to each other. And then they pass it hand in hand, you know, when they’re waiting, you know, had lunch or whatever the damn chance or in the yard. Yeah, so it’s just it’s those air extreme situations, but they also suggests to me that and this is the lesson of both soul of a citizen and be impossible to take a little while, but that in any situation, you know, you don’t have to be faced in prison. But if you’re doing difficult work, you need that camaraderie. You need that community. And you have gotta be we know recently intentional about trading it about, uh, the scope of the work of the organization being judicious about what the organization takes on, right. So it’s not straying from mission and and stressing stressing in killing staff? Well, yeah, i think we are. I mean, i think we all face that challenge because if you’re trying to do something, i mean, i was the needs are so great, the needs are so great, and i always encourage people to think really large and to tackle big systems on a lot of times. There’s a tendency to sort of yeah, which i describe it. It’s i think there’s a value in that more delimited personal work, it’s i don’t want to demean it in any way. Hyre but i remember stanford students saying very well meaning lee, i’ve learned so much volunteering at this homeless shelter, i hope my grandchildren get the opportunity to volunteer at the same homeless shelter that i have and as his friends sort of try to gently remind him that really wasn’t the point. And so if you’re working at the homeless shelter, which is great, you wantto look upstream and you want to be able to say, okay, what am i learning from this one on one encounter? And how do i buy-in with others and join together others to tackle homelessness on a larger platform? Because if you don’t it’s just going to the endless parade of need, so i think that that’s true and at the same time well, where do you draw the bounds? And you look around the issues and there’s poverty and inequality and climate change and, you know, on and on and on, you know, police violence, i’m not stone on on on how do you deal with all of it? And so i think part of it is just you do have to think about what your capacity is. You do have to think about the past people. I tend to be somebody who thinks large and tries to get my project on staff to think large and probably, you know, maybe drives them a little too hard. But by national directories is wonderful. Twenty eight year old is pretty good at balancing, like, all right, you know, this is what we can ask people to do. And if they do it, well, that will matter. But i have this wonderful friend who i nufer years who died at a hundred to is an environmental activist. And of course, you know what time she reaches her. You know, late eighties and nineties, you know, you’re asking your weather sees her secret of longevity is certainly but also her secret of being able to keep doing this work. Yeah, on and so, you know, one of the phrases she does that you know, you you do what you can, you can’t do everything you have to say no to people, but you can do what you can and then you could do some more and you could do that your entire life. And then she also another point she was talking about reviving our spirits and she said, you know, you go kayaking, you go hiking, she both into her nineties and she gets the mist of a smile and she says, then you come back ready to take on exxon, you know, so she’s willing to take on exxon, but she also knows that she has to go do those other things to renew her soul, you know? And, you know, and humor and just she and this sort of goes to the recruitment to you, right? You recruiting hole people? Yeah, you have other interests beyond the work that you’re you’re hiring them for your not recruiting robot? Yeah, no, absolutely. And so i think having, you know, having people who really are just i mean, it’s hard because i always want people who are passionate about the cause, but also but not one dimensional, but no one dimensional. Yeah, yeah, and not, you know, we’re not recruiting robots aboutthe aboard as potential support you, you know, in times again, times of burnout, we’re not talking about your fiduciary responsibilities. But hyre valuable to have a couple of trusted board members who, you know, i would you can’t trust confide in i mean, i would say the trusted people can be anywhere, so i think, you know, if they’re on the board that’s terrific, you know? And there was also i mean, sometimes you sort of worry, will you exposure in, er, you know, the afraid of the classic phrase about politics and sausage making it’s like you really don’t want to see how the sausage is made? I mean, there was there was at least those those sure are meat eaters and made sausage sometimes i really don’t want to see how it’s made and, you know, do you expose the inner workings that boardmember than thinking, oh, my god, this is like, you know, we’re in crisis, we’re in crisis, you know, you know, and the same thing’s true with funders, i mean, certainly myself, you know, there’s funders who i have a very serious, trusting relationship who really do want to know and who i trust if they recognise that, oh, everything is not going perfectly, but this is true in any organization and is not and he’s, perfectly compatible with doing astounding work, you know, i remember i had a staffer once was running operation brilliant, brilliant guy and you, you know, innovated. A lot of the things that moved us forward is an organization, but at one point he liked the plan, which is good because he brought. He brought us to a higher level of planning, and planning is really good. But at one point, he said, it’s supposed to election is that you planned all this stuff out and, you know, it’s all going out, it’s all happening, different blade, yeah, and i’m like and yes, and that’s always going to be the way it iss. It is gonna happen differently, and the planning was good and it makes us respond, you know more effectively, but there’s always going to be if you’re doing anything worthwhile, ambitious enough to be worthwhile, there are always gonna be things coming in from left field on her balls and what not and it’s just. How about sort of going backto what the one hundred two year old activist saying she kayaks, etcetera, right? And he’s mischievous? I mean, i remember a lot of us hundred to you talk. I think there are like he was busy in your party little chablis apartment lived on second, section eight subsidence dilgence social security, which, when she was twenty three years old, as a young union activists, should help lobbied through one of the first public pension programs in america became a model for social security, so something she did in twenty three or four benefits there are ninety eight, ninety nine, one hundred, and i think her i can’t see what she was talking about her landlord and said, well, you know what? If something happens, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole in the backyard. I’m pretty small. I don’t take up my face, you know? She just was she didn’t know there was one point there was was in central america, something there was a congressman she met. She was very active with the audubon society and and who very condescendingly in the way that when does towards the old than the young sort. Said to her, oh, so i hear you’re a birdwatcher like, isn’t that? And she said, yes, there’s a lot of birds in washington d c that need watching these days, but i was thinking of the kayaking, she she takes care of herself, she takes care of its just got this wonderful sense of humor, right? And she’s a kayaker and yes, you know, so having similar to recruiting people who aren’t one dimensional, not being one dimensional yourself. Yeah, i mean, you do have to take care of yourself. You do. I’m a big proponent of naps. Yeah, i’ve blogged about the the the the love i have for napping. But whatever it is, you do need to have something outside. Yeah, yeah, i know it and it’s true. And, you know, and again, i think we all wrestle with i mean, i certainly wrestle with that it’s like, you know, on, you know, my wife’s going out to see a play. I’m she works very. She works very hard, but in a more contained space probably dad, you know? And i’m like no, i got this deadline. I got to do this, you know? But, you know, if i over the years on a runner and run in my early sixties and been running since i’m fifteen and fortunately, my knees haven’t given out and so, you know, if i go run, i also live in seattle, so i get to run by water, but, you know, if i’m traveling, lecturing on the road, it’s, like i take a break, which because i met town, make my living, you know, i take a break and i run along usually if there’s water around, i’m going to run along the river or the stream of the, you know, whatever the lake and it just, you know, physically, it flushes me, you know, they did toxicity out of you, but it also just, you know, it gives you a space and it’s it’s, you feel better afterwards? Endorphins, there’s lot to be said for endorphins, flood flow. All that stuff suppressing the stress hormones. Yeah, yeah, i can think of offhand. Well, no, gentlemen. One of them? Yeah. Suppressing those. Yeah, and building up endorphins. And yet, yeah. And i think also things like diet. Yeah. He’s getting enough sleep? Yeah, yeah. I mean, i called. I mean, i called the holy trinity of, you know, exercise diet, which includes, um, good supplements. Yeah. Ok. And after? Yeah, not not on the suicide. Very practical. And you know what? Yeah, you are dealing with serious dressed. This will help. Uh, this will lower your cortisone there’s. Another right doesn’t stretch on and, you know, and sleep, were i my sleep tends not to be that great. So i just figure okay, i’m gonna log nine hours to get a where you get seven and a half, okay? Yeah. And, you know, and that helps about switch gears a bit to the teo donor-centric team. It don’t, er burnout, right? You know, i’ve been doing this. I’ve been supporting this cause a long time. I feel like it’s time to move on. I need any advice around that. Well, i think part of what happens is people have this constant pressure to sort of see the quick short term results and a lot of times howard’s in new york by accepting the impossible take a little while the greatest story. And he talks about the optimism of uncertain. You don’t know when the moment will turn you go backto parks. Of all, the wasn’t like she was doing lots of things for twelve years, as they all were one of them little spark, but you couldn’t anticipate which and so i think, it’s very it’s, very easy to sort of say that success is for human dignity that we’ve had were inevitable civil rights movement. Of course, eventually they would have revealed gay rights in eventually. Well, our environmental challenges open question whether we will be able you do what we need. Well, we are able to do what we need climate change, but they have the will is yeah, the will for it. I mean right now, you know, the technology is there, renewables have now passed, you know, they are cheaper than coal, there are equal with fossil fuel without any externalities at all. And you know, when next molly’s it’s not even close. So but will we have the political will? I don’t know, um, it depends on us and you and the stakes are pretty ultimate because, you know, we’re talking about the habitability of the planet. So you know, when i when i look at it, you know what i what i see is donors being subject to the same schools is the rest of us buy-in possibly possibly in a more mediate wet because they’re not actual sum of money, but a lot of making sure they aren’t in the field, they’re they’re dealing with, you know, with them, you know, then the publicans of hands, possibly and it’s so and they’re getting reports, but they may not even have time to read the reports and, you know, depends on how good the people are a storytelling and so i think and, you know, let’s be honest, at least on some issues, they they may be insulated by privilege, they’re not, you know, they’re not seeing in their social circle, and i remember talking with one of our funders, and she said, well, she has a couple different pieces, like one of her groups, they are just not always down in silicon valley, they are just not at all concerned about this stuff at all and, you know, so she’s an environment that is not reinforcing her concern. Yeah, and that’s what? You know, that makes it harder to continue as a donor, then everyone’s talking about these urgent issues and oh, yeah and, you know, here you are, so you’re trying to address them, so i think you know, the challenges well for the rest of us, to try and offer that perspective in our work, which is hard because we’re often mean again, the stakes couldn’t be life and death, you know, they’re huge, even if they’re not immediately life and death wait care passionate about our families to myself, it’s like this is what we can do, and we want to put these many people on the ground in our states in time to really work with the school’s for this election and the clock is ticking and, you know, so, you know, from the donor perspective, if you want to try and really see that long term, you know, i mean, and of course, you want to be rigorous and you want all the rest of this stuff, but not get but see that long term goal is his long term goal recognized the the the short term, the short term impacts we can have, right? And but you also see the longer the wait and see how things build on the other thing i think is, you know, there’s a certain, you know, i would argue that our our culture, including certain the non-profit donor intersection, has that has adopted dahna bh session with certain kinds of measurement to the detriment of other kinds of metro meant measurement. And so it’s, metrix, metrix, metrix, metrix and i mean, i mean, i’ve been seattle in a city where it’s particularly talks, because we’ve got a tech culture, and yeah, some of the numbers could be exceptionally important. There’s, no question about that, but here’s, a story that embodies the process of what’s occurring that can be equally indicative. And so when you’re trying to evaluate impact, which is a reasonable in good thing, you want to take that broad, long term picture, and you want to get the understand all the different ripples of a particular organization. You’re supporting our considering supporting. Yeah. That that’s that can be as warm or important. Then then the numbers, you know, and not to dismiss the numbers, you know, but another way of measuring there’s qualitative, this good storytelling as well. Yeah, but, you know, in which can include numbers which can include numbers the air of i mean, you know, when i talked to donors, they know we have some very good numbers on our project. Way from our best calculations. Couple hundred thousand students who voted our last year who wouldn’t have otherwise? This is huge, you know, for a tiny minute budget of well, i have less than half a million dollar budget for that level of impact is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, we just have about a minute left or so you’ve been doing activism. What? Forty some years? Forty something years. It creeps up on you. What do you love about it? Why do you keep forty you? Why so long? What do you love? Well, some of it’s that the work continues to need to be doing dahna but some of it is that you do. I think the old skills and you build a sense of capability. And you can see, things happen that you’ve done or and this is what i would say is that everybody wait the books that i write, try it like impossible and so try to connect people to a broader stream of people working for such for social justice that started way before any of us were born and is going to continue long after we die. And if we feel connected that stream, it can help carry us, and we can help carry others. And to me that’s a lot of what keeps me doing it because it means that not only do i have a community that supports me current time, but i have a community of historical time, which i could see is supporting, and that makes you an awful lot of difference. Follow-up he’s written five books, the most recent our soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while you’ll find him at the impossible dot or ge paul, thank you so much. My pleasure. Been a real pleasure talking to you. Thanks a lot. On the beach on the joanie martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration. Twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us personalized video coming up first, pursuing they have mohr free research for you. This one is a paper it’s their e-giving outlook report. They bring in data from several industry reports, different reports and put it together with their own boots on the ground perspective as fund-raising consultants to give you precautions, opportunities and questions for discussion in your office e-giving outlook report by pursuant and it’s at. Pursuant dot com click resource is than content papers we’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out this video? You’ll see live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling and raising money from millennials it’s that we be e spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two my video this week is, is your thanks since here less thanksgiving, i got two messages that said, thanks, but they added in promotion and solicitation that made them sound less than sincere like here’s an example. Just wanna wish you a happy thanksgiving and ask about your athletic fund-raising i’m kidding like, well, happy thanksgiving to you. And can i borrow five hundred bucks? Have you got all the insurance you need? Uh, might you be in the market for a used car happy thanksgiving i have another example of something less than sincere and a little more to say about sincerity. The video is at tony martignetti dot com that is tony steak, too, from ntcdinosaur sixteen here. Michael hoffman and jonno smith on personalized video welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is day three with e san jose convention center, and this interview is also part of ntc conversations. My guests now are michael’s, michael hoffman and jonno smith. We’re going to eat them in a moment. First, i have to shut out the swag item for this interview, doing one each time and this is a t shirt from canopy studios. What i like about this one is the pretty green tag i mean, they don’t just toss you a t shirt and throw it on, but comes a little pretty green ribbon, i should say pretty green ribbon. We had that to the swag pile the three day pile with a small thumb because that’s a soft item, alright. Michael hoffman and jonno smith. Michael is ceo at sea three communications. Jonno smith is director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you, michael. Michael, welcome back. Thank you, it’s. Good to be back two years ago and tc believe was twentieth. Twenty fourteen. Your workshop topic donor onboarding and stewardship using personalized video to create stronger constituent ties and raise more money. Okay. That’s a mouthful. Yes. Let’s, let’s. Start with michael. You’re the c three is a video production company and marketing what’s. What is personalized video? Personalized video is away. Toe put user data inside a video to give every individual a personalized video experience. So it may say hi, tony, in the video and you get a link to that video that’s for you. So it’s almost like mail merge for video. All right, what’s the okay, i have a couple questions. Can this be done on a large scale or were absolutely so we’re not talking about recording an individual video about now we’re talking about tony. Hello, michael. Hell, john, we’re not doing that. We’re talking about automated triggers with a c r m so that we can take any data out of your database and say tony gave fifty dollars, last year. Tony, will you give one? Hundred dollars this year. Or thank you for your gift of x and the ex comes from the database. Okay? And these are called triggers. Within a video, you create a trigger to make the video so it might be a first time gift. Or it might be trying to upgrade you. And then the system will produce a video on the service side and send you a link to a video that has your name in it on way. See that people are incredibly responsive when we are customized to their own experience. How okay, if if i am the person in the video howto my lips sync with each different persons also mostly we don’t do audio we just to text on the screen so it might say hi, tony in ah in words on the screen on then there’s kind of a generic voice over. We have done it with voice and basically the way you do that would be to record, you know, the top two hundred first names, for example, and then and then have a default for names that don’t fit so most people would get you know, something that that says their name. And other people get some default, but usually that’s not necessarily worth the effort, because just seeing your name on the screen and seeing a donation amount or something specific about you, i really had an impact. Upstanding how long have we had this personalized video technology? We’ve been doing it for years, mostly for peer-to-peer fund-raising sofer run, walk and ride fund-raising mostly tto help the person who’s raising the money, who’s just a donor really ask others for money, so it’ll say, you know, tony is walking in the in the important, you know, make a wish event. Yeah, and you should support tony and and so you could just send that video to your friends, and that does the asking for you because most people don’t like to do the asking, and most people aren’t very good at it. So we’ve seen that raise money we’re doing working now with the alzheimer’s foundation and alzheimer’s association, and we’ve done for american cancer society, and we’ve done for autism speaks we’ve done from video reference it’s a very successful company. Did you develop this? We did. Yeah, we did. And there’s other other folks doing it there’s some. Companies that just do this for the corporate side, which is really what got us into the question of onboarding and stored ship on retention because we’re seeing companies like a t and t uses technology to welcome new customers to say hi, tony, this is what you ordered this when you’re billing date is this is who you know and and it keeps people are connected. I saw jonno check his watch. He’s. Well, let’s bring you in there’s a part of this. You know what? I’m speaking at a ten o’clock. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Okay, it’s. Nine. Forty. All right, we’ll try to be mined mindful of that, but i got to get these twenty one minutes out of you. All right, so how is make-a-wish using this? Well, what we’ve done is work with michael’s team to create nineteen in nine different audience personas. And historically, all of our video has been very make-a-wish centric and not focus on our constituents. Oh, and so we created dahna personas volunteer personas medical professionals because they’re very important to our wish referral process, huh? And have rolled those out across all sixty two our chapters in the us. As a framework for them to think about storytelling and video storytelling specifically in a different way. I’m not just talking about make a wish and how great we are, which we are, but we couldn’t do what we do without hundreds of different people to make witches happen. And so by featuring these different personas in our videos, it really moves make-a-wish out of the hero role and more into the mentor role and puts our constituents ahs the hero of our story. So personalized video is just one tactic in a in a bigger strategy, which is to really understand who your donors are and speak to them, you know, clear directly, personally, thoughtfully, yeah, we’ve been just really privileged partner with make a wish on figuring out who those who those folks are today and who they will be in the future and on dh, then to be helping them shift the messaging so that it really speaks to those people in their role. Yeah, it really does mean using their name that speaks to them. Yeah, right, i’m saying, but even outside the technique of personalized video, we’re doing that through all other kinds of content. Development just wanna banding that, you know, the major donor is of this age or is likely to like these things. Then when you start to create content, you speak more clearly to those people, even if you’re not using their name. Okay? And this is one of many channels that you’re communicating with courses altum staying multi-channel sure, all right, you know, you’re specifically using this for donor onboarding and retention or stewardship? How, john, how are you using it in the end? Donor-centric video technique, it’s personalized video is just one tactic that we’ve used around this donor onboarding in sword ship. Oh, okay, but well, you have video personas, though yes, so just a little bit different. We’re not at the point yet where we’re featuring the person’s name in the video, okay, but we’ve just changed the storytelling archetypes, so to speak, to focus on these different individuals and make them the folks of the video instead of it being all about us, okay, makes a lot of sense. All right, so then for onboarding michael, how how are non-profits using it or how might they? Yeah, i i think i think it’s a powerful opportunity. To say when somebody doesn’t action or does a donation to say to them, you know what you just did was really important and organisations are so focused on acquisition all the time, it’s like that new name, that first gift that they forget to amaze and delight their donors afterwards. And so the theory and we’re seeing it again in the corporate world, is that if you treat them well at the beginning and you explain what they did and why it was important, then they’re going to stay with you longer. And so we know, for example, that monthly givers often drop off after a couple months when they see this thing recurring on their credit card, but if you keep them for longer than a few months, they might stay for seven years, so just using different techniques, personalized video being one of them to really speak to them in those moments and say, hey, what you’re doing is really important and here’s the impact that it’s having and here’s people like you who are doing it and doing incredible things and making them part of the story, one of our most important metrics is donor commitment. Score, which is the non-profit equivalent of the net promoter score and we measure that on an annual basis with our donors, you have to explain what the net promote. I have george in jail on sorry twenty martignetti non-profit radio i do not know what the net promoter score is, so and i’m the on the orbiter for jorgen shell. So? So when amazon asks you, how likely you to recommend amazon to a friend on a zero to ten basis, the nines and tens are considered promoters of that brand and the ones most likely to purchase again and to refer amazon and there’s a group that’s adapted that for the nonprofit sector and not only asks, how likely are you to donate to this organization? But are they your favorite charity? Do you love this organization? And they combine those scores to understand the donor’s commitment? And so we measure that on an annual basis and what we’ve seen since we’ve transitioned to the more personalized form of storytelling in general and specifically through video is that our donor commitment scores have started teo increase because the donor’s air really seeing themselves in our stories for the first time and in a long time, okay, and what are some of the other techniques that you’re using alongside the personalized video? So we’ve once we created these nine different personas, we actually built collateral around them for all sixty two of our chapters and developed with michael’s team, a flip book that sits on every marketer and fundraisers desk throughout make-a-wish way have a thousand employees throughout the u s and so having a shift like this and storytelling was a massive endeavor. We didn’t want the personas to end up on the shelf in the office, so to speak. And so literally we put these flip books on everyone’s desk, and when they’re getting ready to send an email or write a direct mail letter or create a video or whatever the case, maybe they can literally flip the persona and remind themselves about their demographics there. Psychographic sw what? What these individuals value so they make sure that they’re truly speaking to these individuals and personalized and segmented way, right? So if you’re writing an e mail or you’re writing a facebook post, you look at those pictures of those people and you say, well, will this person like that was this speaking to them now they’re not it’s not speaking to everyone. It’s, speaking to specific types of supporters donors wish, refers on making that really top of mind all the time when you’re doing content creation. Now the flip books are the persona. Yeah, the nine percent cracked and their posters on the walls and there’s, you know, an idea of like these air, our constituents, we need to be talking to these people, you’re not the audience, these in the audience. So when we think about the language we use, when we think about the things we want to share, when we think about how to ask for for donations, we have to look at these faces and their character, and we have to say, you know, will this resonate with them on dh that sharpens started to sharpen the messaging on, but also diversifies the messaging because it’s not just one one type, so make a wish kind of got caught in talking one way tau one type and the way to grow is really to think about, well, who were those other types that we weren’t speaking too? Okay, and it sounds like common sense, right? People have been talking about being donor-centric and constituent centric it conferences in presentations and white papers for ten years, but the reality is, most organizations have not really embraced that. And although it seems like common sense and doesn’t sound like a controversial idea, it was actually very controversial for many of our chapters, especially those with staff who have been there for ten, fifteen, twenty years. They’ve been used to talking exclusively about make a wish, make a wish being the focus, and when we said no, if we’re going to grow, if our donor commitment scores are going to rise, we need to flip that and people were resistant to that. And so the flip books really helps push that along. What are some of the other personas you mentioned? Doctors, volunteers, major donors? Who some what are some of the other? Sure so we created not only current heh personas, but perspective personas of those who were not currently reaching that we feel like there’s a good opportunity. Two one example of that is a volunteer persona of an older male. Most of our volunteers are younger females, but we thought there was an opportunity with men who are approaching retirement age to become volunteers who helped grant our wishes. A tte the same time, those individuals could potentially become candidates for plant giving, major gifts and so forth. Doctor’s on social workers and child life specialists, or court our mission. And they’re a really difficult audience to reach. Eso, we develop personas for all three of those individuals. And it’s enabled our chapters toe. Think ah, a little bit more strategically, about how they get into the conversation, in hospitals, in treatment centers and with nurses, and so forth. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I like the idea that it’s not only people you’re dealing with now, but perspective volunteers, for instance, the old er, the old er older guys, yeah, i mean, that was really an important insight that michael’s team helped us come teo and sell internally. Yeah, yeah, and also, for example, it fits in with the diversification of america as well. So, you know, we have a millennial donor-centric perspective dahna persona whose latino so, you know, those air communities that the chapters are starting to connect teo and don’t necessarily have the insight or the language to connect well, and so the persona is help them do that. Jonah, what kind of reactions have you gotten from donors who have received personalized video for whatever stage of their relationship with you? Yeah, so, ah, since we started implementing this about a year ago, ah, pretty much every single metric on our youtube channel has doubled subscribers, engagement, comments, shares, you name it, we’ve, you know, historically are channel had gotten a little flat. Excuse me, are these personalized don’t don’t personalize videos on youtube channel their videos with these personas featured in them on our youtube channel? Yes, not not the ones personalized each individual doesn’t. The person doesn’t go to youtube to watch it. It’s a it’s a private somewhere, as i said make-a-wish e-giving treyz you guys wait, give me a break elearning this now i’ve got about fifteen minutes of forty six seconds into personalized video. You’ve been doing it for years, okay? Yes, yes. Oh, no. Just saying that personalized video where the name appears in it is one tactic that make a wish is not using yet right? And they’re using the broader approach, which is to really see yourself in the video in the broad sense that there were somebody like you on the video, i think that’s having a great impact, i thought you meant they weren’t using them in donor onboarding but you’re not not using that. You haven’t personalized the videos yet, correct. Okay, you too. Metrics have doubled in views in every single way. Yeah, as you know, we believe as a result of changing the storytelling paradigm on youtube. Historically, all of our videos were about the wish, the child’s name, their disease and what they wish for organization centric or when you were talking about being donor-centric exactly, and now they can actually see themselves in these videos, riel live donors, medical professionals, volunteers contributing to our mission. We saw a video in the session that that make-a-wish produced that was these guys who created a polar plunge thing, and then they were somebody said, why don’t you make it a fundraiser? And they raised over five million dollars for make a wish and the video was about they spill it on you, but the video was about them, right? And there the donors on there, the fundraisers in the video was about them. It wasn’t just about the wish kids and the impact they had a huge impact. It had a huge impact on their life, right? They were incredibly moved by it. So this donor-centric heimans techniques is really saying, well, that’s an important story to tell and that impact is valuable, right? The impact on the child is a focus, but that impact on the donor is a real value and it’s something that make a wish is bringing to the world and let’s talk about it. Yeah, i mean, videos like this, i think, really make volunteering and giving contagious because people are able to see themselves in these videos more than they have in the past and they can say, well, if these these two guys from long island put together a polar bear plunge that raises five million dollars from make a wish, why can’t i do that? Why? Why haven’t i done something as simple as that that’s exactly how the ice bucket challenge took off right for for a l s purely organic and it was it was a beneficiary who thought of the thought of it, and it is now obviously took off from there. So in this case, a donor saw it and said, why don’t we do the same thing? So it’s our job to remind people every day how they khun get involved and and stay of involved? And if we’re just talking about us, we’re not going to be able to be doing that. Yeah. Grayce now, general, won’t be respectful of your time. It’s ah, about seven minutes of no it’s. All right, ten. Thirty i’m good. Oh, ten. Thirty. Okay. Okay. Because michael and i could’ve wrapped up in like, the next three, four minutes. But you’re good till ten. Thirty, i speak in ten. Thirty, so okay. Oh, yeah. We’re gonna get you wrapped up in a few minutes. Okay. Um, so we do have a few more minutes left. What what more can we say about this technique? The multi-channel that goes along with think, you know, important thing to say is that there’s a lot of shiny objects here. There’s a lot of technology is there’s a lot of good strategy, but in the end of the day, it all bumps up against culture and capacity. And and so you can say let’s be donor-centric you can say whatever, but if you have buy-in grain silos, if you have people have been doing some things for thirty years the same way that’s, what you’re going to run into, and so well we’re really focused on and what we’ve been working with jonno. And is this culture change and that’s not an easy process? That’s something. But if it’s not built in tow, whatever it is it’s it’s not gonna work. So when we think about strategy, we really think about that culture and capacity and, you know, how are we designing for change? Johnno talk a little about that. Because this this applies not only to a video strategy but really anything new where there are long term employees who haven’t been doing this way. Culture change, we all know, is enormously difficult. How did you bring along the recalcitrant ones? Yeah, absolutely so creating the percentage was twenty percent of the challenge, you know, eighty percent was rolling it out, and we work with michael’s team to create something internally. We call the content strategy collaborative, and we’ve broken our sixty two jap chapters into cohorts of fifteen, fifteen chapters with similar characteristics and are putting them through a nine months virtual learning program where each month they participate in a webinar on a topic related to one of the personas. Then they have personalized one on one coaching with a marketing and fund-raising coach, and then they get back together with their peers at the end of the month in a webinar that we call a share fest, where they share how they’ve experimented and tested and started to implement these personas in their storytelling and their campaigns and it’s been ah, overwhelmingly successful so far, the chapters love the program and have been extremely engaged in it and they’ll be spending literally nine months, five to ten hours per month. Just focused on this for the next year. Yeah. All right, so so there really weren’t people who were seriously objecting because they were brought along in the process and it was it’s a working product is the working process. I mean, even in this program, you know, there’s there’s, people, there’s, you know, resistance to specific things all the time. So it’s ah it’s working through it it’s saying, hey, we never did it that way or hey, look, we have events we’ve been doing our schedule a certain way, and we feel really full, like you want us to do these other things, you know? So that’s it it’s not a straight lying. So the program is great. And it’s moving the needle, but it’s turning a big ship? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Where we want to leave this? We have just like, another minute or so left. What? What happened? We set about it that that we should yeah. I mean, i would just say, ah, you know, every day if you work in marketing or fund-raising the non-profit you’re going to get an email from a vendor with a white paper about being donor-centric you’re going to go to a conference and see all the sessions air about that? But if that’s been going on for ten years, why have things not changed? And, you know, one of my former colleagues used to call it the mission megaphone. All we’re good at doing is sort of shouting our mission, but nobody’s listening, nobody cares what your mission is, that they care about what impact they can have on your mission. And until the sector really embraces this idea, e-giving will continue. Tio tio, grow at a at the small rate that it that it is. And so, you know, i would really challenge all of my colleagues to think seriously about this and start finding ways to implement in their organizations. Okay, outstanding. Thank you. Deep thinking civilization, right. They are michael hoffman, ceo of c three communications and jonno smith, director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america. Gentlemen. Thank you again. Thank you. All right. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us. That was interesting. I got i got a little confused. I feel like i wasn’t totally paying attention to what michael was telling me. So i apologize for that, michael his first time going through it. Sorry about that. Next week, jean takagi returns he’s, our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. You know, jean takagi, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com, a creative, producers clad meyerhoff sam leave uses the line producer. I’m still working on hyre, not am and fm outreach director. Social media is done by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Offgrid me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and i agree. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.