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Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2018: Your Website Redesign & Overmarketing

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My Guests:

Oren Levine, Lisa Ghisolf, & Emily Patterson: Your Website Redesign
It’s your step-by-step guide to a website makeover. Let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Oren Levine with International Center for Journalists; Lisa Ghisolf with GizmoCreative Factory; and Emily Patterson, founder of BeeMeasure.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Overmarketing
Amy Sample WardIt drives Amy Sample Ward bananas. Let’s talk through her issues and preventative measures. She’s our social media contributor and the CEO of NTEN, Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

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Oh, hi, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a habit ood if you told me the dull idea that you missed today’s, show your website redesign it’s your step by step guide to a web site makeover let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is orin levine with international centre for journalists. Lisa gets off with gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measure and over marketing it drives amy sample ward bananas let’s talk through her issues she’s, a social media contributor and the ceo of n ten non-profit technology network i told you to, i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p well, you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give amglobal donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here is your website, redesigned from non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re hosted by the non-profit technology network, coming to you from new orleans in the convention center. This interview, like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, i guess now are orin levine, lisa gets off and emily patterson, or in his director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa is founder and creative director at gizmo creative factory, and emily patterson is founder. Be measured that’s b e like the insect welcome buy-in. Your seminar topic is gourmet taste on a pizza budget. Tackling a website, we design for small non-profits, and i noticed that in your session description, use the word small three times. That’s perfect for non-profit radio because our twelve thousand listeners are in small and midsize non-profits. So i don’t have to admonish you or remind you even taylor, your comments too small and midsize or no, i don’t, because it’s, you’re right, it’s in your dna, it’s in the dna of your workshop topic, anyway, get carried away. Personal. Okay. What what are the challenges? Let’s, start down there with emily on the far end? What are the challenges with website redesign? Hyre? Definitely, i compare website redesigns, teo doing laundry, at least at my house. Okay, that it’s something where it feels like you put all this work into it, and then when you’re done well, there’s a whole new basket of laundry, and you need to start all over again. Yes, it’s, a project that it could take over here and then it’s. You know, another year passes by and it’s, time to start redesigning your website all over again, because technology and trends change so frequently, something you have constantly have to keep up with. What do you part of what you described way? Have you done your workshop yet, or it’s coming? No it’s tomorrow at one thirty and that’s a preparation for you? Okay, she’s like a batting range, putting, putting green. I don’t know too much. I don’t be doing sports analogies that that was a mistake i don’t anything about. I don’t know anything about either of those sports, football or tennis, so okay, what do you need? What do you need to have in place? Could we start with you? Lisa, can you could you adjust that one? What do you need to let in place? But think about before you embark on hiring someone to do it or doing it in house? What do you need to think about? You really have to think about weirder site is now and if it’s working for you and if you comptel, if it’s working for you, since we generally have analytics, but also are you getting the results that you want out of it? Are your constituents getting what they need out of it all of that kind of thing? And then it’s just improving upon what you have if its content or design usability, all of those things, okay? Or you want to add wear at the pre stage now, exactly. And this is in some ways where the small comes in, because one of things your back of your mind is, is what resource is do you have realistically to approach the project, which will probably be less resource is than you would love to have? Especially if you know you’re looking at other websites and say, oh, i’d love to have a website like name your large corporation here and because you’re not small non-profit you can’t. And in addition to the questions, lisa was passing one of the question, in fact, you need to ask is, you know, why do i have a website at all? You know, it’s really gets down to what am i doing? I’m murcott what’s the purpose why do i want people to visit me in the web but who’s coming to visit? What do i want them to do when they get there? And by being really careful about asking those questions that helps you match what you could do there to the limited budget you’re going toe? How do you overcome this stick of the orange? How do you overcome not knowing what could do? It is not your site is not doing it now, but it could, but but you don’t know. What it could do because you’re not already exploiting that. How do you feel that gap, that knowledge gap? Well, it’s ah, sort of a balance between what what it’s already doing, what it could do and what you wanted to do. And a lot of what we talked about in our own organization was trying to distill down of all of our laundry list or went backto the laundry analogy, a laundry list, emily’s basket wish list of all the things you wanted to do or could do or might do an ideal world. It’s really important to try to focus down on a few very, very critical things that you want the website to do. Focus your efforts there that both helps focus the minds of the people who are responsible for the website and then focusing your budget on a realistic set of goals you can achieve. So you might brainstorm and then and then and then focus exactly two realities. Okay, okay. See about something else you pledged to cover in your workshop. Hold your feet to the fire. Think about who to hire. Whether you need is who wants to take this one first? Whether. Whether you need expertise, we don’t necessarily have to go in line. One, two, three, three, two, one, which i don’t i don’t like that, but we can now for now anyway. There’s soup for now, but i’ll bring it up if we keep up with us whether whether you should a lot of small orcs probably do need help, right, then we’re gonna need some technical help. This website project definitely on dh speaking as a designer and developer, generally i come in when they don’t have those resource is on staff, or if those people are overwhelmed and speaking to lauren’s point, sometimes you can brainstorm with those people and find out exactly new things that you may not be aware of ways that you can integrate databases better, etcetera on improving communication. So, you know, so much of it is just what you’re re sources are and what you’re willing to put forth. So you’re often in the role of having tio make the expectations fit the budget. Yes, we can’t do that yet. I know you would love to, but if you want to do these other things that you said were playing top three priorities. And we can’t do this. You can’t have six priorities. Yeah, i’m a big believer in phase development, so if you could do it in six months, then we’ll do it in six months when it’s more feasible. Okay, how do you, uh, how do you message that reduction down, too of reality when it when you’re talking to the ceo executive director? Oh, gosh, i mean, i basically put it the exact same way that we can do this in six months. We can still make it happen with the budget that you have, but if you want to put more towards that, then of course, we could make plenty of things happening now, so okay, so bring it down. Arika money. Yes. Way to spread it out. You can have it, but it’s gonna take longer. Okay? In fact, one of the things we talked about in the session is sort of tricks. I learned i was emily start going out orders don’t get going out at one point, i want i want to head over to emily because she’s really the expert on how to manage to ceo seo, i’d better let her speak for that. I’m not going sequence. I don’t want you to continue, okay? My my one question is that one of the now now a great host, it’s time for a break, pursuing their newest paper is pursuing e-giving outlook it’s a roundup of all the fund-raising data that you need, they took the latest fund-raising reports boiled them down to the essentials into a concise content paper, plus there’s a video archive of the weapon, or that they did around this whole subject. It’s, an ensemble piece, paper and webinar both on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now, back to your website redesign say something talk emily yeah, it was like they had a message to you, ceo message manage expectations about the top level uh, so i think one of the things that people don’t realize, especially at the top level around website redesigns is just yeah, how much, how much work and how much? And thus time and money is involved, and i think having teo yeah, message and set expectations around that is a big challenge buy-in vices that i’ve worked and now in a zoo independent consultant, my point of contact is typically, you know, you’re marketing director or your communications person who have, who handles all of communications and all of fund-raising so kind of a mid level person and being able to work with them to help them set expectations with there with their boss around the web website, because i think a lot of a lot of executive directors, you know, they’re a little bit detached from the project and, you know, they’re looking online, and they’re seeing all of this awesome stuff that other organizations or, you know, even for-profit companies are able to dio and they don’t realize, you know how much time and money needs to go into that. I’m going to pick up on on emily’s point, that becoming the position of being the non-profit that’s working with cos, you know, we were designing the web site, and one of the things we try to make sure of is we knew internally in our own organization who who is responsible to make the final decision so that, you know, family’s talking the communications director, she needs to know that when the communications director says we’re not going to do this, then hearst boss is not going to come down two weeks later and say, well, actually, we are let’s keep that anyway, because that’s, how you lied to basically blowing your budget and changing your plans. So it’s, very important as an organization is a nonprofit taking on the project to be clear in advance. Who are the decision makers? Who are the real stakeholders, who is going to make the decisions and who needs to stay out of the way? That’s perfect. So who should be let’s? Go to you family? Who should be part of this design team? I mean, i think having one clear a person who is ultimately one person is in charge. Yes, having been in the position where three people are making the decision, you know that doesn’t really work. So ultimately one person has to have the final say. So we are we are not doing this, but i think lots of people should be involved and be able to have their input because you will otherwise get in this situation. Where oranges years, months later i don’t know. How’d we get this? Yes or no? You roll that definitely derail your project. If all of a sudden you had someone pop up and say hey, what happened? Teo x y z i thought we were doing this, and then as a consultant to be the person who says, oh, sorry, that’s not in the budget, i think it’s so we need to think through in the beginning stages, who are the stakeholders? So but with the web, but at our website affects everybody. Lisa, how do we decide whose we can’t have too many people in the process? I already said that how do we decide who should be part of this process and who should be sidelined? A big part of that for me is design theory. Tio it’s basically starting off with talking to all of the people who are going to be using the site. So if it’s one person from the board, one person from the staff, one actual end user, et cetera, and they don’t necessarily have to be people who are involved in the decision making part of it. But fighting out how they actually use the site and how they would like to use the site and how it all fits into the overall organization makes a huge difference in the end result and how successful it is, okay or anything you want to add to this? Yeah. And that’s another reason why inside the organisation it helps to have somebody you can sort of manage some of those relationships internally in some ways be a bridge between the organization and the external party. I in some ways fulfill that role in my organization. I’m not responsible for the site, partially because i have experiences a web product manager, i’m ableto some ways mediate, i suppose, between some of the internal forces intentions and our external external vendors, and that makes life easier for them because they have fewer people to talk to, and we’re clear decision making it makes life easier for us and that we’re able to resolve some of our issues ideally before we start having to pay for it’s going to more detail on this, managing the contractors or contractor whatever that is doing the process. Emily, you’ve got something you want. I was going to say that i think having your communications director or someone at that level lead the project is a good call because they’re in a role where they khun both understand more closely, like the technical side of what we’ll need to go into this because they’re close enough. To the project, where they might be in a role where they’re updating the website. But then there also. Removed a little bit from it and more into the business side of things where they can understand the bigger picture and the business decisions and the important role that stakeholders play. Where i think if you put the website in the i t department and have that management come from that side, they might spend more time kind of focused on how is everything working exactly and ignore the business side of war on the into the code? Okay, okay, let’s, let’s talk more about managing the contract with doing this project for us out. How do you? How do you like to be managed? I don’t like to be managed, but well, essentially the biggest thing is always communication on both ends of it and setting expectations. Some people love to talk only via email, some are i need to get on the phone with you to make you understand this and it’s an inter generational thing, it’s just it’s. Everybody certainly has different feelings on that bye, setting up expectations of how often we’re going to talk, how we’re going to talk, how we’re going to be managing all of these assets, all of these things that makes things so much easier down the line, and you don’t have developers who disappear or gaps in knowledge where well, we have no idea where we’re hosted right now, which is a huge deal, because so many people don’t really know all their passwords and everything. So let’s, let’s move to something else that you were are going to cover tomorrow. Use of data, you said data tio dr better flew and better engagement. Who’s the everybody plays family, right? Emily, you’re got two thumbs pointing to you. Yes. Yeah. That’s. The data portion of it is really my specialty. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about what the stakeholder they wrote to me in for the stakeholder section because i had had this other presentation that oren saw where it was about using data to kind of manage people’s personalities, but definitely needed to manage personnel. That was that was different. There was somewhere else. Yeah. Is that another? Another kind of interested? Okay, about how you can take the day that you collect and then use it. Tio appears the different sort of questions and issues that pop with your different stakeholders, but definitely before you embark on your redesigned some suggestions about, you know what sorts of data people should look at, a lot of it depends on what sorts of issues pop up with your various people who are involved. I really kind of feel like there’s kind of three basic types of issues that it will happen, you know, there’s the sort of person who doesn’t you might have it from your executive director or from another person, your organization, they don’t necessarily want to spend any money, so helping to make the case that we need to make this investment and we need to invest in better technology, you can use your your google analytics user testing surveys a variety of different things to get a good picture of what’s going on with your audience because who’s using your website is not necessarily reflecting the needs of the person using your website isn’t reflecting. You know the needs of the people in your audience, they’re not in your office, they’re not the same. Okay, what else about data? I’m so you also get the person who is has all the fun ideas, maybe, you know, reads a lot of things. Online about the latest trends, and we need to have this widget and that widget and helping them get a good perspective on, you know, what’s really going on with our users where we really having problems with our site right now that definitely need to be fixed in the in the redesign, you can use google analytics things like back-up they have a funnel feature to see you. Nowhere in your process is people you’re losing people dropping out, leaving your side, and then i love surveys and user testing as a way to hear from riel people how frustrating it is for them to use certain functions on your website. So who would you send those surveys to? Is that that cut across all your constituents metoo donors, board members, people who are engaged, engaged with your programs, receiving your service is all those people get survey like that? It depends. I’ve done ones on the website, which i think are nice. Google has ah, very low cost pop up sort of survey you may have seen them before that you can answer a couple questions, and then there’s typically kind of an open end response, which is a great source for people’s france. Ok, things are kind of questions. Do we ask? You can certainly ask about user rolls if you want. If it’s important for you and your your website to understand who’s used what constituency you would word it this way, but what constituency they fit into. We’re delivering services, etcetera. Okay. What? What else do you want to find out? That’s? Fine, but you could totally keep it super simple. And just as something like, you know, what brings you to the site today? Are you satisfied with your experience? If not, you know what recommendations do you have for us? Those three questions? I think we’ll get you a good picture of what’s going on. I mean, i’ve had guests on who say the best survey is, like, five fewer questions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so short is not problematic. It all it’s preferred? Yeah, especially if you you know, you’re kind of you’re popping up at them. They’re coming to your sight because they’re trying to do something else. So you want to keep the survey short because you’re kind of interrupting their experience? What else can wait? Talk about around this? You’re going, you’re going to feel ninety minutes tomorrow. Well, let me add another more point about data again. I’m coming at this from persuaded emily. So i thought the data when emily stop, okay or you can talk about data. Whenever we took a breath, i thought that was the end of the day that i could talk for days about data e talking about okay, just the one small point i wanted to make again back to managing expectations, it’s away to also manage expectations your stakeholders had about people who are wedded to. We’ve always had this section on the website i love this information is valuable and it’s useful to be able to go to analytic state and say twenty, people visited this page in the last five years. We don’t need it. Okay? Spell, myth it’s also a legacy pages that people are tied to strongly, but nobody else cares it’s also testing out processes to like, how long does it take someone to actually make a donation or to find the volunteer form or something like that? Does it take to long for them to get there and they get tired of it? And they just leave, or does the executive director have an idea that they love this particular feature, but no one’s clicking on it or they wantto accident actually everyone’s clicking on it. And we don’t know that unless we actually get true user data, so it helps it. A lot of scenarios are based in reality. You know, the numbers no like yeah. All right. Uh, okay, so we still have you just took it five or six minutes together. What else can we talk about on this topic website? Redesigned. You promised a step by step guide. We missed any step. Well, there’s, plenty of stuff. Cemetery. Alright, so name some names, something we haven’t talked about it content auditing of your current site. So actually, i’m going to cut you off there, like three or four sessions ago, we talked about content, name another one and another step way of linking on it that we haven’t talked a lot of sessions, police about post launch care and the whole yeah, because to me kind of the laundry analogy to but to me, a website is a living, breathing thing. And just because you’re done with it, because it launched does not mean that it is done. You need to keep feeding that for google to pay attention to and for your users to pay attention to. You also need to be aware of the ongoing costs of maintaining the site and keeping it secure. Ilsen and already you have a laundry. Now you wanna bring laundry and maybe a lot of what you want. I’m thinking more about sort of laundry all of a sudden, you know, chris created out of no where in your hamper, because what happens is part of the consequence. If you’ve been really successful, i think in managing expectations and limiting the scope of your redesign and coming up with a very clean site, that means there are going to be items that fell off the must have list that are now on the might have list or nice to have list, but after launch that’s an opportunity to sort of incrementally add in some of the things you may have wanted to do earlier as budget becomes available. That’s part of what lisa was saying about it’s, an ongoing project not only maintenance but ongoing improvement i remember, but i used to work at a large non-profit before people with sort of a background in your television program, you would say that keep iooking cleanse the website done, and i think least i mentioned at the beginning of our talk it’s never done that’s an ongoing lisa, do you see? Oh, our emily also commonalities around things that people want but don’t really need or, you know, durney generalities about things that they say is a top priority, but really it’s, not any any generalizations you could make around that. How about home paint sliders? I was just thinking that way, but everybody loves big sliders, right? No one clicks on them. They really don’t know. They don’t stop it to go back. So many guys attract many home page sliders. Yes, they get teo slide too, i think. Yeah, they and then they go to what they really want. Okay, i think people, maybe this is at least as different impressions. But i think there’s just too much emphasis and too many politics around the home page and what goes on on the home page because most sites people are coming in sideways, you get a lot of people coming in. From search, especially if your sight is well designed and has, you know, all the ceo best practices. People will come in to your bog post or to your content pages, and they’ll never see your home page. And so in projects i’ve been involved with, the home page gets very political and can stall things. Okay, that’s, old thinking that everybody’s coming directly to our our main, our main domain. And everybody wants a piece of it. Yes, there’s a lot of fighting about. Okay, so you are generalizing about okay, george, as i was going to bring this up before, but yeah. There’s a lot of oh, you know, my department needs to go on the home page. This is very important. Very important to this organization. All right, all right. What else could we were going to flush out? A little bit more? Got another couple minutes left. What one thing is, i was going to advise i came up with a bunch of sort of tips and tricks. If you’re inside the organizations that have ways too, to keep your stakeholders, i was going to use the word under control. But that’s a bit of a loaded term, but back to the prioritization, you know, prioritization is really critical, you know, making those choices about what you want to do and there’s been lots of cases in several projects i’ve worked on when you know your stakeholders might have a long list of things they want to do. And as somebody who’s running a project it’s really important to learn how to say pick one really focuses the mind i sway for, you’re not going to need that. That sort of thing to really help helps sort of focus the issue. Everybody gets one right, you could. You could name as many as you like, but you’re gonna get one priority. Okay, okay, yeah buy-in talking to clients. I used to say to people, you know, we can do this, you know, or we could do this and that response, wass, what can we do both. So i have learned to rephrase it and say, here are three options, pick one, okay. We asked what you, uh so what do you love about the work that you do? You know, organizations i work within cos they’re so wide ranging that it always amazes me what you can learn, what you can pick up and all of the commonalities of them too, you know, there there’s so many things that they’re all trying to get across, even if they’re a tiny little organization. So it’s, um, and making a difference with it with the actual and product from what they can about you are what you love about this work. I think what’s really interesting about the work is one year’s going setting off on a website redesign you think you’re doing a technology project, and it almost inevitably ends up being a management project because i think we’ve alluded to it before that the company’s your organization’s website is really related to how it’s organised how the organization works and you end up sometimes having more conversations about how the organization works and how we’re running on what our strategies then, about technology, about the actual some introspection. Okay, emily, i’m gonna give you ten or fifteen seconds. What do you like? What you love about this work your work about the work that i d’oh. I mean, i like that it’s always changing. I specialize in data stuff and it’s a field that’s constantly evolving. So i like that aspect of being able teo, keep up on it and always be just like our websites. Yeah, conley evolving. Always changing. Never finished. All right, they’re orin levine, director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa lisa it’s. A guess off. Yeah. Sounder and creative. Director of gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measured. Thanks so much for being with us. I think this interview like all of them here it eighteen ntc sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with non-profit video coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps for pete’s sake, talk to you. Eat huge tomb. You know the man. You heard him on our four hundred show. Did he sound high pressure to you? Of course not. He sounded like the gentleman that he is gentlemanly and professional. Check out the farm of course. Got to do your due diligence. Do your research weinger cps dot com then pick up the phone. Talk to you, wagner, cpas dot com then moved to real life now tony steak too it’s finger wagging time. I want you to plan ahead so that you make time don’t just look for it try to find it. You make time for yourself yourself over labor day weekend time alone, its restorative you heard last week steve rio talk about thie the benefits throughout your day of of mindfulness and presence, and even maybe ah meditation for a couple of minutes. I mean, they do virtual meditations of bright webb, he said, every day for five minutes, take time for yourself. Make time for yourself over labor day weekend, even if even if part of it is a nap. It’s restorative, you’re in e-giving profession you give you give, you have to be a little selfish and take make that time for yourself wagging my finger and there’s a little bit more on that in the video at tony martignetti dot com what a pleasure to have amy sample ward back. She is our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network her most recent court third book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample board, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. Welcome back, amy. I think having me back, it’s always a pleasure. You’re always you’re always welcome back. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Should be a surprise to you. We always work well, i hope that you’ll let me know if i get cut from the roster will stop taking your calls. Know that we’ll have to wait on the phone. I’ll call in with a different say. I have a question to make up a different name. All right. Um, we’re talking about over marketing over marketing. This is a, uh, a bothersome thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think it’s probably bothersome to everyone. That’s. Why it’s not successful? Yeah, it’s. In the long run, it annoys people and they turn off. Okay, i think that’s true. You know, maybe we’ll look att cem symptoms of over marketing so that you can do some self assessment. I think it’s it’s, probably one of these things is much easier to see in other people which may be coming totally right. I think it’s definitely hard to self diagnose your organization as an over marketer and instead very easy to look at other communications, other websites, what have you and feel like? Oh my gosh. You know and just to be clear, when i say over market and maybe this is a point of clarification between the two of us, i am curious how you define it. But for me, over marketing is when you market everything equally instead of choosing as an organization what your priorities are. Okay, so it seems very scattershot the marketing then from that those kinds of organizations very scattershot, everything is equally urgent. Everything is equal, equally impactful. Everything is, you know equally the thing that you want people to do right, then yeah. Okay, interesting might might my sense of it is it’s it’s i’m more looking at the frequency you know, if i get too many emails too many if i see your twitter you know, blowing up my twitter stream you know, i see i see too much from you it’s it’s too much it well in however, you define the time but e i’m seeing too much, um, well, and i think that that frequency piece could is, you know, one of the ways that over marketing manifest, because you could also say that it, um, you know, separate from frequency, it could just be type it could be that you are just like your web site is, you can’t even navigate it because every single thing has to have its own space on your home page that’s the call to action and whatever, you know, there’s different ways that it might manifest, but frequency certainly is a big one. Ok? And christie’s bleed over. I mean, you know, if your if your website has everything is an equally high priority, then that’s the trouble you were, you know, that’s, the trouble that you’re that bothers you the most is that every everything is urgent going on and everything has a page, every page is called action. You know, his first came to me as an idea because someone sent me an email with i printed it. It’s literally the the email signature is a half a page and i did not printed in eighteen point five i put it in twelve point fund. A very reasonable size. I’m this person’s email signature is a half takes up a half a page, right? I’m sure that the emails they’re sending two people are, you know, a very reasonable, like hi, tony, and then a couple sentences and thanks so much. And yet their signature is three times that. Yeah, yeah. Or more. It’s, you know, there’s itt’s. Well, i gave it away. It’s a he you know, it’s it’s it’s filled up with i mean there’s like zoho linked in you are el there’s a well there’s there’s web sites. There’s a you are elves, but then they’re not linked. And then separately there’s www the length number one w w was like number two and number three and there’s the mailing address and there’s. Ah, fax number off a twenty eighteen a fax number on then there’s and then there’s some congratulate, you know, self promotion stuff about anniversaries. How long he’s been in different lines of business and it’s it’s a half a page. So that’s what? Put this on my radar? You know, i guess i’ve subconsciously i’ve probably been thinking noticed it certainly, but tio got into my consciousness and i asked you about it and you said, whoa drives me crazy. So so here we are here we are. I’m just commiserating in the things that drives, but it’s for a good purpose, we’re helping where i’m not complained, my larry david, i’m not i’m not complaining, i’m helping, but, you know, what’s so interesting to me about that, like, the starting place where this conversation is that so many organizations, i don’t think, ever think about the signature line of there down both from the perspective that that, uh, i mean, that’s, you know, hundreds if you count all of your different staff, hundreds of messages a day to community members that could be reinforcing your organization’s brand or voice or mission having a standard, you know, signature block for everyone in your staff that, you know, great, everybody has the right information there, we probably don’t need to list our fax machine, you know, for all of those things because i see so many times where you know, one person, one organization writes at one way another person you can’t they don’t have a signature block, all you see is like, thanks, amy and me, but who? Are you, you know, co-branded spectrum that’s a missed place for just reinforcing the brand of the organization, but so few organizations know that you’re their signature block is kind of a passive called toe action space. Um, and at intend, we test that and we have a we use our goal for non-profits account, and that allows us if anyone listening uses the google suite for your organizations, you have, you know, females, you know, you could just administer as an organization what everyone’s you could add, like a call to action at the bottom of of the signature, and you don’t have to worry that some staff forgot to put it in, like, you could just administer that, and it is immediately in place for all of your emails, and we change that regularly, but we also track that and, you know, there are people that click on that signature link where we’re promoting that and you see and actually click through and register. So it is a place to call people to action. It is not necessarily a place to successfully call them toe action with eighteen different things that you’re saying, you know, it needs to just be one and have it be something that’s actually relevant to why you’re emailing people vs maybe, you know, links all of these different awards and promotions. You actually test different signatures. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Eminently doable. Eminently testable. You know us, we test everything. Okay. That’s, you technology network? Yes. Bonem all right. So let’s, let’s encourage some self assessment. We just have about a minute or so before before taking the first break. Um, i thought of i thought of some symptoms that you might that that that maybe hitting you in the face if you’re if your engagement numbers are declining, if you’re if you’re of actual follower numbers or connections, if that’s, you know, if people are dropping off that way, so i thought of either one of those, you know, people might still be following you, but they’re not engaging that’s, that’s bad or they might just stop following you or being connected. No thing can in fact, tonight, adam a nuance to those numbers. Certainly it’s healthy to have people stop following you on twitter or toe unsubscribes miree male because it means people are reading it and it no longer, you know the priority in their life, it’s not the topic that they care about it’s. Fine, you don’t need to feel bad of someone on subscribe to the newsletter but that’s the point you’re making tony is that if you are getting in ten people unsubscribes sections one new person subscribing then your ratio is a little off you want tohave, you know more people continuing to subscribe. Then you have a fall back off. Thank you for refining my point. Thank you. I mean, i mean that generally we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us enough with the talis moughniyah. Lt’s you’ve heard them. You’ve heard them from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, those charities air getting that revenue each month that long tail you’ve heard the talis moughniyah, lt’s from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing. I bet you could use more revenue. Tell us long stream of revenue. You know how this works? You refer cos they take on tell owes you the non-profit get fifty percent of the revenue from those fees. Watch the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now. Back to amy sample board. Thank you for that indulgence. Yes. All right. So, indeed, big numbers, you know, that’s bad and unsustainable. You know, you’ve got your tenant followers a day and one new follower, your that’s that’s, not sustainable. Um, let’s. See, um, if you i thought you know how about reading your own stuff reading your own to spend a little time romping through your own, you know, your own twitter stream your own instagram, facebook, these things boring you your own website, have you read? Have you read the last a couple of weeks of content on your website? A few if you have something that’s regularly updated that that often does it bore you? I would say that’s a bad somebody i think what’s interesting about that suggestion and that so many people we’ll overlook is that we, of course i have read all of it listed it, right? So the idea that we would go back and look at it feels like some time wasted because, of course we wrote those tweets. Are we, you know, posted those pictures? Never, but the value in what you’re suggesting is not look at any of those. Single post it’s look your feed without looking at your whole timeline or whatever, right? Like, just look at for twitter, profile and all the content in order that’s been posted or your instagram profile or your website, because that’s where you can really start to see from your followers perspective or your community’s perspective. Whoa, you know, this is this is what it felt like, or this is what it sounded like. I think that’s something we don’t do often enough it’s organizations because we don’t feel like we need to, because we’ve already reviewed all that content when we posted it individually. Yeah, we wrote it ourselves see, this is this is why you’re an author, co author of two books, and i’ve never written a book because you you put a finer point on it. No, i’m the shallow guy, i got this idea and then you refine it, give it depth and meaning and eso like on the comic book writer, and you’re the you’re the writer of books that actually get published by, you know, by well known publishing companies. Yeah, but i haven’t even done one of those yet. Yeah, ok. Er and you just and i’ve been thinking about it, and you just heard it. And you you put you put, you add depth and, uh, greater meaning to it. So thank you. What a team. You know, good teamwork. Yeah, work. If i didn’t have this show, you could because, you know, i don’t think you need me to get started, but i need you to add the depth and the color enough beating myself up. Okay. Um, no. I’m having fun doing it. So what are you? Nobody. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so nobody here’s the nobody here is the self loathing. Oh, that’s not true. Thousands of people listening. Yes. Don’t remind everybody said you have more in your list in this moment. Don’t remind me more of my list more my list. What of these of these things? I have more. I have things on my list. I can add, um, i have one more staff complaints if the staff, if the staff is feeling that their content is you know, however, they describe stale o r, you know, repetitive. You want to pay a lot of attention to that because they’re the ones producing the content. So if staff or if you’re hearing from staff, i think that’s a bad sign, what do you what do you have totally eye? You know, now i feel obligated to add depth and color all of your suggestions, but the piece that i would add there is i feel like it’s, not just staff saying that it’s repetitive, but the conversations that you might over here amongst your staff that are kind of like a warning sign warning flag that you’re maybe doing over marketing is when people are saying, you know, i’m marketing this in someone else’s say, no, the postcards you know, went out yesterday for this someone else, eh? Zoho on twitter were saying that you have people, you know, you’re cross team isn’t talking about the same thing, then you’re probably doing, you know, equal parts promotion of five different things at once and that just naturally not going to be a successful your community members can’t take in five different request to do something that are different and actually do them all for you. Very bad sign if there’s conflicting messages across your across your team, i thought it was this i thought this was the priority, right? Okay, what else? What else do you have on your symptom symptom list? Well, i don’t have as many symptoms. I have a list that’s, more like things that you khun d’oh. Okay, um, yeah, okay, we could switch over there. I’m game for some guests. I would say you’re not a baby, we can talk about a few things underneath is i really liked the idea for organizations, you know, of course, we all know that we should have, like, a content calendar and marketing plan and all of these things. But the reality is i’m going toe just operate within reality that we don’t have those things or we have them and they’re not updated or or or whatever. So instead of saying, oh, just go finish off that editorial calendar that you should have instead of that recommendation, i’d say just pick a team. It could be every month it could be based on certain weeks that, you know, we’re leading up to events, whatever. And having a team i think, really helps people across the organization, you know, in whichever team there in know that they can still talk about their team. Or their program or their service. But do it in a way that still aligned and advancing whatever over our james focus organizationally needs to be the priority. So it maybe we can use in ten for an example. Course i could speak to that, so we might say, ok, this month’s needs to be focused on the ntc, but we still have membership campaigns that happened, we still have course promotions that need to happen, you know, where there’s still all this other work, but we don’t need to be saying register for the nbc become a member. Sign up for this course that’s happening next week, you know, apply for this program because that’s not going that’s, where we get into the half a page email signature, you know, someone said saint arthur, steam is auntie si lets people say culwell instead of just talking about membership, i’ll talk about how members engaged at the ntc instead of just talking about, of course, next week, i’ll say this course has a similar topic at the mtc, and this is a way for you to continue your learning. You know, it just gives people more oven umbrella that they can talk about their programs while still staying. Kind of on message. Okay, yeah. I can i can i can toss out one for recommendation, and that is to put yourself on your own lists, make sure that you are seeding yourself so that you’re seeing the feed, the posts, hearing the podcast, whatever it is the same way, same frequency as everybody else. Yeah, and then had a way to do that. It’s not just getting your own organizations emails, because to your point, there are lots of different channels were using in ten does this and i’ve talked to a number of our other organizations who do this, too, whether you use black, which is kind of an internal messaging tool, or you have an internet or whatever tool you’re using for kind of internal content and conversation. Most of those tools there’s probably a way where you can have your organization’s account, your twitter account, instagram show up in there and that way you have essentially, you know, one channel in slack or whatever you used that just is showing all of your tweets, so not only can you see when a tweet has gone out, but what it was about, and then you can very easily scroll through and say oh, my gosh, way! Look at what we have been saying or what we haven’t been saying or whatever on dh you don’t have to say, okay, now everyone on staff has to create a twitter account and go follow the organization and check it every day. You can just pull it into a central system so everyone can see it. I see. Excellent. Okay, okay. She’s, the co author times two. Amazing. All right, let’s, take another break. Okay, let me take a break text to give you’ll get more revenue because text to give makes e-giving easy for your donors. If your donors can send a text message, they could make a donation to u not only simple also affordable and secure the way to get more info and to claim your special listener offer you text npr two, four, four, four, nine nine nine couldn’t be any simpler. Npr. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine we’ve got about six more minutes for over marketing with amy um, we run really medicine, okay? Please go ahead. So this suggestion is coming from a place where at and ten, we have definitely seen return on the work, but also in recognition that if you’re if you’re organization is suffering from over marketing, you’re already putting in the time to do a bunch of work so let’s just move that work to something else, and that is the idea of promo, okay, it’s, not just for your big annual fundraiser or, you know, once a year event for anything programs for things that are year round, even creating again, you’re already doing this work because you’re already over marketing, so instead of putting it all out as an organization, all the work you did to come up with those tweets or those block post or whatever put them into, you know, a a shared document or a wiki or google doc or whatever, and instead of sharing them on your own feed, share them with community members that can that are interested in that that maybe participate in that program before whatever that they want to be out in the community scene is talking about your work and promoting it and it’s still getting out there. People are still hearing about your programs, but you aren’t saying okay, well, our twitter feed today is going to have to cover all ten of these topics you say today we’re covering this topic, but we know that we’ve supported community members and they have access to these promo kits. Tio help us spread the word excellent using yes using your most dedicated constituents, friends, followers sort of a back channel way of getting them to help you promote board members boardmember could be idea for that, right? Okay, are for sure, all right, i’m going to get one out because i know you’re going to say it, i’m gonna get out first, okay? If you feel you’re over marketing on promoting your own work, share the work of others instead. So the obvious, you know, sharing on facebook, facebook shares, they’re so they’re so rare. Now facebook shares please share other people’s content obviously twitter, the re tweets on twitter or you go or spend that time going out and finding, you know, curating the content of others and sharing that because, you know, it’s relevant to your community. I know you’re going to say that yes, well and i think something to remember to when when you’re thinking about content and mixing it up so that it isn’t just you talking. About the thing that you want people to do over and over, another place where you could look to content in addition to sharing, of course, you know that i’m always going to say, share other people’s work and rise up the community is just as you are doing, too be the one that reminds your community that they can take a break, that they can have fun, that the world is really hard, it feels right now, and so much is going on, and we’re always asking our community to take action to support us, whether it’s fund-raising or advocacy or local actions. But maybe you are also building community and building trust with them by being the voice that says, you know, we hope that you take a saturday off and just be with your family or go to the zoo her, you know, go for a hike and and you aren’t always calling them toe action that you’re also treating them as full people that need to take a break and be healthy too. Yeah, that space space critical. We had steve rio on last week talking a lot about that he’s. Interesting do you know, do you know steve rio, bright webb? I don’t know. And i know i heard he’s, based in vancouver. Andi has twenty five employees. Maybe that includes contractors, but they’re all over north america. Very interesting. Okay. Um, they do. They have. They have virtual meditations. You probably heard me or not. Uh, not not mandatory optional, but they do a forty five minute virtual meditation every day a couple times a week. Sorry. Three times, three times a week? Um, yeah, i think yeah. Mindfulness, you know, presence. Oh, and, you know, there’s there’s research that shows that that that helps you be be more efficient in your in your workday. Um, every sample would really have, like, two minutes left. Um, you have another. You wantto recommend something else. If you feel you’re over marketing, do you have another recommendation? While the other piece that i was going to suggest is kind of the office that and that is just in case there are listeners who are, like, no, our problem is that we never marketed anything we never, you know, actually promote ourselves because it’s all you know, maybe they’re your web site is is just kind of content, because your programs or your round and you don’t feel like you have timely things, so if somehow you are on the opposite end of the conversation and feel like you need more help finding ways teo to market, i would say, just look through whether that’s, your social media accounts, your website, whatever and look for those empty spaces places that i think organizations could really take advantages putting in in their twitter bio or their instagram bio, or whatever that you know, a girl that shows up right there and the short kind of narrative box you have to write something, put what feels more like a timely kind of a call to action or reference a campaign that you’re running or whatever that is, and put a girl in there that doesn’t just go to your home page, same with your email signature. Look for those empty spaces where you can make it feel more timely instead of just the permanent kind of here’s our home page here’s, what we do here is our mission statement she’s amy sample ward she’s the author i’m not you’ll find her at, you’ll find her and amy sample ward. Dot or go! And also you should be following the woman for god’s sake, twitter is so much wisdom coming follow-up for god’s sake that’s the end of it just for pizza. Just follow at amy rs ward. Thank you, amy. Thank you, tony. My pleasure always next week. Maria semple returns with real estate for prospect research. If you missed any part of today’s show i deceit, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. We are sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four nine nine, nine a creative producers clam meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Yeah. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com hyre. You’re listening to talking on turn their network at www. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 17, 2018: Branding & Focus and Attention

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James Wu, Kristyna Jones & Rhiannon Tasker: Branding
How do you get people to care about your brand and your cause when there’s so much noise out there? It helps to be inclusive and authentic. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference (18NTC) explains how. They’re James Wu, brand consultant; Kristyna Jones with Brothers Empowered 2 Teach; and Rhiannon Tasker from The Public Theater.

 

 

Steve Rio: Focus and Attention
Steve Rio has been researching the intersection of mindfulness, creativity and productivity. He’s CEO of Briteweb.

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host today’s show is dedicated to my mom. She would have been eighty five today would have been her eighty fifth birthday. Hi, mom. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with zoho no sis, if you made me sick with the idea that you missed today’s show co-branding how do you get people to care about your brand and your cause? When there’s so much noise out there, it helps to be inclusive and authentic. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference eighteen ntc explains how they’re james woo brand consultant christina jones with brothers empowered to teach and ran in tasker from the public theater and focus and attention, steve rio has been researching the intersection of mindfulness, creativity and productivity. He’s ceo of bright webb on tony’s steak, too, baby boomers, we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four four nine, nine nine here is branding from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc that’s, a non-profit technology conference in new orleans hosted by the non-profit technology network interview like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests are james wou christina jones and ran in tasker. James is an independent brand consultant. Christina is co founder and ceo. Seo of brothers empowered to teach by here in new orleans. Andre hannan tasker is donor communications project manager at the public theater. Welcome. Thank you for having a pleasant have all three of you. Your workshop topic is branding for the apocalypse very ominous how to get people to care about your cause when everything is horrible. Okay, eyes the horrible that we’re, uh, is part of the horrible that we’re thinking about the current political environment and how there’s something new every couple of hours. Do you like he’s a crisis? Yes, that that is exactly what we’re talking. About that was certainly that’s the driver of the conversation and that i remember one day, you know, logging off twitter for about thirty minutes, coming back on and literally, there are six new horrible things that happened that we’re very much tied to the current political climate in the country we just learned a couple hours ago that paul ryan is not going to run for for the house in wisconsin. Well, there you go. Speak something about what’s going on on dh there’s news like that very, very often. Yeah, our challenge is to stand out, okay? Apocalyptic? Yeah, we have an apocalyptic e i mean, i think that the khan, the environment that we’re in right now is very divided. And no matter how quickly things change and how every how fast news is happening, it still feels like we’re in a very sort of divided world in the way that we’re feeling after post election, especially no matter what side you’re on it’s feeling very divided and very sort of there’s a lot of tension right now, and so it feels a little bit of tense and uncomfortable sometimes, okay, but, kristina, we can’t overcome your your organ has done it. I guess you’ve got some lessons to share. Yes, i think that we have overcome that because one of the things that we always do, regardless of what’s happening politically in the world stay true to who we are is an organization. So, you know, part of you know, your branding is sort of interpreting that message for what’s happening in the world as long as it’s a part of who you are. Okay, so, is that your first advice for rising above this noise is staying true. Yes, you are. I think so. I think what happens when we have these, you know, something, something that happens with non-profit sometimes is that wear always putting out a fire, right? We’re responding to a crisis. And in responding to those crises, sometimes we can lose a part of who we are or staying kind of on message of what we’re trying to accomplish or what our mission is. And so i think it was sort of like being i think i used on the panel today is like being a bully and a storm, right? So that’s, my part might take. Okay, so your panel’s already done. You’re relaxing them. That’s. Right, guys, take it easy on us. All right? Congratulations. Yeah, this is fun. This is not from radio. No, no, you got yours here. Anything okay? And i gather from the session description. Christina and rhiannon. You’ve taken two different approaches in terms of politics. Hyre christina apolitical. Pretty much staying mostly apolitical and reaction. Uh, using the arts to be political, using theater to be political. Yeah. Anything, something about the public theater as we try and represent all sort of views were opened everyone and we want to tell all stories and especially in our branding, we did the same thing where we said, very true to who we were as an organization and the urgency that people are few going in the community in the power of storytelling, to sort of tell people to share different perspectives and the power that storytelling really has. Teo help people feel like they understand a different viewpoint than their own, whether that’s, depending on all sides of the political spectrum, i mean the public theater being in new york city, we do tend to lean a certain way, but we try toe be as open just all, all voices in all stories on dh, hopefully help other people understand, especially as i said, we’re divided right now, helping understand other people and under perspective helps sort of refused attention and help people come in issues in a different way. James, i think it’s pretty well recognized that storytelling is critical. We’re not a theater group that has a stage literally, yeah, how can we effectively, compellingly is better. Tell tell, have the storytelling or telling ourselves yeah, yeah, that is a great question and one question, that question that doesn’t have fans, we have to have a fan, i have know that we’re seeing a james now you both way or lindsay is a small town, there was astra, everybody about each other’s people and your, uh, your home i’m leaving now way that was legitimate, okay, just kind of make up having any family. So how do we do this compelling? You know, that’s a great question is actually question that came up in a in our panel conversation today from the audience and ran and answered it beautifully, and i’ll try my best kind of encapsulate her great response in that. At the end of the day, yes, we might not be affiliated with an organization that is in the arts or in the future, or use this storytelling as the primary medium or platform. But the work that were in in the nonprofit world is all about human stories, right, it’s all about change and transformation within humans and communities that they dwell in, that we serve. And so i think at the end of the day, you know, you might not have art as kind of the channel for telling these stories. But the better you can get at telling very human stories that connect to people at a very human emotional level. I think that’s, where you get really, really, really power. How do you do drill down into that? Getting that making that connection with with the leader of the viewer? S o i think one of the mistakes that a lot of organizations do is they get caught up in kind of explaining their model like this is our theory of change. And this is here all of our programs, right? We invest in building community, we invest in entrepreneurs, whatever it is way train leaders instead of thinking about why, like, why do you exist? What is your purpose? What is your reason for being right? If you can start there, then you can begin inspire people in a way that if you start talking about your products and programs, you might lose them. Right? So if you can start with why you exist, really drill down and get to your core purpose. I think anyone can really identify with that. Begin. Teo, resonate with that message. It’s. Time for a break pursuant the round up the fund-raising round up it’s called the pursuing e-giving outlook. They took all the latest fund-raising reports. Boiled it down to just what you need to know. Plus they did a webinar on it. And you can watch the archive of that it’s, an ensemble piece, the content paper and the webinar both. Are on the listener landing page that is at tony dot m a slash pursuant remember the capital p for please. Now, back to branding. Cristina’s doing a lot of nodding. Yeah, i what’s your way, you know, brothers and power to teach, unlike the public fears only four years old, right? Um and so we’re still kind of a startup, but when we first started, it was very much like, this is our model. We have these three steps. This is what we do, and people would be like dahna and so when we started telling the story about why we do the work and why we think the way we do, it matters, it was much easier for people to connect. And so i think that that’s really, really important and you’re trying to get black men to go into teaching, right? Right? Education. That’s right, brothers? Yeah. Weather’s empowered to teach brothers and power to teach and sister bras and power to teach. But, yes. Okay. Okay. Uh, and you’re you feel like you’re creating a lot of boats and a lot of conversation around your mission. How? Yeah, on the way of rising above you, get talking about you? Yeah, i mean, uh, one of the things that i said today was that, like, show up, right? So we show up to lots of different things, and we show up in lots of different ways. So we participate in lots of activities going on around town related to the issues that we work on, but also on larger issues like there’s, an initiative in new orleans called forward together politicians non-profits people who work in the private sector come together, so we go to those things. We’re all constantly wearing a b, right? So that’s one of your share, one of the ways we show up the every way is that we know on your shoulder turned my shoulder way. We have young people who are very much engaged in the work that we do, and so they do a lot of videos for us. They do a lot of tweeting for us. They we do a lot of social activities, so people see us collectively together, and they’re like, what, that beaming? What hashtag real bro teach? What does that mean? So that’s how we really driven people to think about it, brandon, how about the public theater. How are you creating buzz conversation about about the pub. I mean, the public theater is a definitely a growing brand, especially in new york city. We had hamilton, which was like a huge, huge threat. Hamilton before was on broadway. Yeah, we created hamilton here the way we did the workshops and, like, sort of helped. It could be that show. And then we did the first production. That was the production that moved to broadway. So we had a lot of sort of, like buzz from that show. And i were now in the place of like, okay, now that hamilton’s sort of moved on, continuing those conversations and keeping us in the forefront of people’s mind as a theatrical in student as well. Civic inge institution. We hold a lot of talk are that are hosted the republic form team at our home in astor place. We also were doing them a delacorte. We hold other sort of initiatives. We did. Voter registration was a big thing. We had a table on our lobby on bistro. Participated with other non-profit geever okay. Interesting voter registration. That’s. Um, that’s. Not something that intuitively i would. Link with with a theater? Yeah, it was initiative that was started by believing playwrights horizons. They got theaters throughout the country to set up voter registration foods for when people came and saw shows they could register for vote while they’re like waiting in line or internet during intermission or after the show. And the idea is just to help people engage civically within their communities in the country by voting, and we had a huge turnout. We also did some pushes on our social media and through emails, and we got a lot of people registered to vote and it’s our way of sort of helping people just be active within our community and engage socially not just with the conversations that we’re having with the work we’re resenting, but just like in the real world outside of what’s on our stage is james, you’re our resident consultant. How generally, how can we create conversation and buzz around our work? I mean, i think we just heard some great examples, but beyond those, yeah, i think it does at the end of the day, come back to having a clear sense of who you are, but also who your audience is and we talked a lot today about authenticity, right? Yeah, doing here too, yeah, allowed on non-profit radio on and i think the theme of authenticity is something that we keep the three of us keep coming back to and is a common thread in all of our work. But, you know, like rian instead of beginning organization that’s yours and organizations that tend to shift their messaging or change, they are in response to what’s happening the world today without remaining true to kind of their core purpose or kind of their their identity. I think there’s a real danger, they’re kind of losing sight of what you’re all about and why you exist. I think when you have a clear sense of who you are and more importantly, how your audience connects with that, then that kind of authenticity shines through no matter what is happening around you. And i’m sure these to concede say more about that. Yeah, i think a lot of the questions we have today, no matter what the question was, are always kind of brought back to that authenticity and who you are and sticking true to who you are. Whether it is like a post election end of your campaign where there’s a little different urgency within it, it’s still about those fundamental things that make your organization what it is people are going to see right through you if you’re trying to, like, do something urgent, that doesn’t feel authentic or real because they don’t want to give money to an organization that’s not going to do something with it, that’s what that is fundamental to who they are, and so the public theater and, like we have always stuck true to those values that were theater of by and for the people on that culture belongs to everyone one and this is we are places, storytelling, and those are the things that are important to us and just framing it in the way of the moment of it, whether it’s urgency or what, no matter what it is, it is it’s still, those things at every question we got today, we kept coming back to that authenticity and who you are, because, christina, you’re not only alienating your mission, but you’re also alienating your core supporters, right? You’re awful, haley expecting work for you, you and your employees, your staff, they have certain expectations. Now we’re adjusting just because there’s tha multi in the in the political economy, right? Exactly. I mean, we think of our brand is a person, right? So one of the activities we did when we did our brand refresh was okay. His brothers and power to teach was a person who are they use a person? This ah, james is a user persona, or i think that’s part of it certainly part of it and so, you know, kept coming up with all the things that we already do that sort of reinforce who we are as a person, so we’re twenty something creative, collaborative, fresh and fashionable group what we read, what we listen to way to our podcast, you know, all about those things that connects our brand to people who want to hear about the work we’re doing in more detail, and it translates into the photos we take into our website. All of those things signify that you think, tony, you just used an interesting word a minute ago, and then there was expectation, and i think, that’s one thing that we actually didn’t talk a lot about. Directly today but certainly was a theme that i see woven in a lot of the work, especially the tactics that both of your organizations have used in the past year and can be something as small as the public theater in there. You’re an fund-raising campaign last year instead of their typical just we’re just going toe send email after email appeal at the end of the year asking for our audience to give us money they actually hand wrote notes on postcards thanking people for their contributions for their engagement, a very analog old school approach in this very hyper, you know, social media, digital world, and they saw a huge bump in terms of kind of hoping to see a big bump in terms of renewal sze but did see a big bump in terms of engagement, justin, based in response to that tactic, which so that kind of analog very old fashioned, if you will approach really, really cut through the clutter when you’re just getting bombarded on social media or email today and similarly with brothers empire to teach, i think one of the things that was really interesting when they were going through their brand refresh. They had an exercise where there, you know, looking at something as mundane as colors which should our color palette be that represents our visual identity. It’s a very standard part of any branding exercise. But the way that they thought about colors was really provocative for me. And i should probably just, like christina tell the story herself. But essentially, you know what? What i heard was correct me if i’m wrong that yeah, you tell us. Thank you. S r color palette is soft. So its environs so it’s yellow, teal of, like, a lavender. And i grayce right. And the reason for those colors is because we did this today we had all feel like you’re hearing. Yes, you’re going down going down with you. Eventually wei had everybody close their eyes and say and think to themselves, not necessarily share like you think of a young black man. What do you see? Right? And so when they open their eyes and said the reason these colors are the colors they are because they signify liveliness and collaboration and nurturing. So a softening of the idea of a young black man is because we want people to see young men as nurturers, right as having potential to nurture so that’s why our color palette is the way it is. We talked about this idea of i used to come from the international development world in this this expression or phrase club poverty porn. But if you’ve heard that but it’s kind of this, you know, in our imagery we either really negative imagery that’s very exploitive in an effort to raise money and awareness, right? So malnourished kids and sub saharan african with flies on their faces, right? That kind of creates this sympathy or pity. On the other hand, the pendulum has swung in the complete opposite direction in the last five, ten years, where everyone uses just images filled with happiness and optimism and joy. And i feel like there needs to be a recall calibration again and something that’s kind of in between that prevent presents a mork, nuanced complete hole and maybe complex picture of what the issues are that we’re dealing with in the communities that we’re serving. I think that there’s a real danger and kind of dumbing down your message rebrand or simplifying it to say, this is this is who we are, this is what we’re all about and it’s it’s kind of playing into what people expect right versus some little what brothers in power to teach duitz he said, how do we create an image that is more about fostering this nurturing environment? And then also in some of the photographs, you see it’s, like, sometimes it’s really struggle on diversity that you see sometimes it’s real celebration enjoy and just the complete humanity that’s presented kind of a whole human being, i think that’s um, something that we don’t see enough of today, christine what’s a home run for you is that when when someone decides to and embark on a career in education is that i like the grand slam home run and a stadium fans would be if a young man starts with us and doesn’t want to teach, and by the time he leaves he’s like you know what i’m going to teach. So that’s that’s a grand slogan, the basic home run is basically a young man who should, who may want to teach what isn’t really sure and decides to teach, but we’ve had a lot of success with guys who had no intention of teaching because only three percent of all the teachers in the entire country are black men, they don’t see themselves and teaching, so the idea that they now see themselves with the teacher or working in education period is like, phenomenal, really, yeah, and you talked a bit about inclusive hyre say more about that in terms of the public’s brand. How do you feel being inclusive sets you? Aside from competition in new york city, the public theater, it’s one of our fundamental sort of missions is tio provide theatre to everyone no matter what background you are. And i mean, if we dio free shakespeare in the park where we give one hundred thousand tickets, world class shakespeare every summer, all for free heart is held to get to former new york come on, we’re making i mean that’s the thing that they are hard to get, people have to wait in line for hours. So what? We’re taking steps to make it easier to get tickets for everyone. So we do distributions in all five boroughs. We like what they’re like throughout the week we’ll be, we’ll be in queens one. Week will be in brooklyn will be in the bronx and staten island dahna distributing tickets there so that they don’t have to come into the city, wait in line for hours, maybe, or maybe not, get a ticket and then wait until the show in the evening. It’s a more accessible moment for them to get tickets there. We also have a digital online lottery so people could do it from work or from where they are. We do a lottery downtown, it are after a place home. So again, you’re not waiting in line. You can come enter the lottery, get john, be quick, we so we are trying to you offer more and more opportunities to help like to help expand who is seeing the theater versus the people who are able to write in line. We also do the mobile unit, which takes shakespeare to prisons, homeless shelters and community centers do out all five boroughs, and we do that twice a year. Once a year, we’ve now expanded twice a year, their twenty stopped tour, and then they come downtown and dio a three week, three week run at our theater and astor place and all those tickets are also free inclusion. Yeah, well, i just want to talk about. No, but the wraps. Okay, what else could we talk about you, you had your your workshop. We’ve got another five minutes or so together. What happened? We touched on anybody that we want to. You did ninety minutes. I know. We’re all talked out questions, maybe questions you got that we haven’t talked about yet. Well, one thing that that we didn’t that didn’t come up, that some folks ask me after our panel was, you know, it’s it’s interesting because you have a very founder lead organising your small organization, you’re young organization upmifa on the contrary, public theatre has been around for sixty five years, almost and their founder is not, you know, directly involved anymore, but oscar eustis who’s been there for how long? It was ten years when i started so twelve, thirteen years he’s kind of an iconic institution in another sound. And so how do you think about brandon relation too? The founders personality, and if you work in an organization that doesn’t have a strong founder with that really influences that culture than then what do you do? I don’t know if you guys have thoughts on that. Well, i’ve worked in no book fired-up buy-in my previous career, i was investment banker, community development and one organisation i work for went through a big brand refresh the founder had long been gone and what they did. Internally was sort of theater does with the stash and sent out a survey. Like, who are we way say we are. Who do you think we are? Wait, you think we should be? And they did a whole entire brand refresh based on sort of who’s in the building. Now, who works for the company now? Why did they come to this place to work here? And i think they did a great job rebranding themselves. Enterprise community partners. I haven’t looked at co-branding lately, but a few years ago, they did that. I thought that was a really great way to do it when you don’t have a strong founding founders culture anymore. The founder has, you know, your organization has evolved over the years. You’ve had another executive director, but you still want to stay kind of truth to your original mission. I thought that that was a great way, actually. Survey surveyed the staff surveyed the stand. Why are you here? Right? Right. Right. And i guess you know another question. Taking that a step further that i get all the time. Okay? We were sold. We should go through a branding exercise. That brand refresh. If you will, how do we get the leaders of our organization on board? How do we get the entire staff on board to really buy into this? So this doesn’t just feel like a bunch of pretty words that we stick in a mark getting drawer, but has riel impact on how we show up in every department throughout the organization every single day. So how do we get that buy-in that’s my question, i don’t know, i mean, you guys are both live and breathe this every single day, and i’m happy to share my thoughts, but i mean it’s, the public theater is such a deeply rooted mission and oscar, whose artistic director really lives and breathes the mission of the public and truly the people who work there want to be there. I want to be there for the mission of the public it’s, you know, it’s non-profit you want to be there for that, you you want to be there to help give thousands of people free tickets in the park and the work that goes behind it and to create good work. So we are kind of in a a very lucky situation and that we are very, very rooted in our mission and our brandon who we are on it, it stuns from having a strong artistic director leader who any speech he gives any from, like a staff meeting, agreed to the delicate and opening night of shakespeare in the park. It is so rooted and who we are and so rooted in the deep belief of who we are every so it really helps everyone in the organization really get behind it because you know that you’re working towards something not for our leader believes and i also that’s something that we believe in a cz group and as a theatre, so we’re kind of we’re lucky and that our way it’s so embedded in us is a public you don’t know, a lot of cedars don’t necessarily even have that theater is not something that people think of in these huge, huge, deeply founded missions and values and big we have brought their broad and really lofti of culture belongs to everyone and theatre should be free for all and all those things that but there are things to aspire to and there things that we all are working towards. Is an organization, james, if we don’t enjoy that luxury that the public has yeah, you yeah, i think one of the biggest things that i tried it teach my clients is that when they’re going through branding, exercise, it’s really critical to bring the entire organization on board throughout the process, right? There’s, nothing worse than going through a six month rebranding and the leadership says tata, we’re done look at our new brand and he says, what, like, how come i didn’t have my how come i wasn’t hurt happened? I didn’t get a chance to weigh in or at least share my opinions or and so i think that’s a really, um, the fine line between, you know, a successful branding and co-branding that ends up failing one of the i think it comes down to when you’re when you’re developing a mission or purpose statement, if you’re developing core values for the organization that you don’t fall into the trap, which is choosing empty words, right? We’ve also core values like empathy, innovation, honesty, well, who’s, who’s not going to be honest, like, who wants to be the opposite of that, right? So those kind of be empty, meaningless core values. How can you create a set of values that really change the way we show up to work every single day? And so one of the things that i do is my clients is after we have this branding, we bring everyone along throughout the process there entirely bought in, we say, okay, now we have this new set of values. Now we have these new purpose. Maybe we’ve written a manifesto. Really? Look at these words break up into teams. So finance department, accounting department marketing department operations team i want you each to go and meet and look at these words and really understand what they mean and have a conversation about what’s going to change. What you going to start doing mohr of today that you’re not doing enough of what you going to stop doing as a result of the language on the words at the end of the day, a lot of rebranding tze come down to a language and words and the intention that you put into those really can go a long way. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there, ok? Alright, right they are james woo, independent brand. Consultant christina jones, co founder, ceo of brothers empowered to teach rehan in tasker dahna communications project manager at the public theater. Thank you all. Thank you all very much things interview scheduled sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for now. Non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen. Auntie si. We need to take a break. Regular cps, please talk to eat. Which tomb? You heard him on the four hundredth show. Plus he’s. Been a guest on the show a couple of times. Check out the firm. Of course. Do your research, then talk to e tell him what you need. He’ll tell you whether wagner can help you with your accounting needs. No pressure, all professional. Got to do your due diligence. Get started at wagner cps dot com now, tony’s, take two. I’m paying attention to baby boomers. Millennials get a lot of attention. Of course on dh that’s deserved. That could be a very, very important part of your fund-raising prospect pool course. Depending on your mission, they’ll be donors for fifty or sixty years. I am not saying ignore millennials at all we’ve covered in here on the show many times what the trends involving millennials, etcetera and will continue to but that i don’t mean that is the universal no gator along with that my consulting, and hence my focus is on baby boomers. They’ll be around because i’m one and i’ll be around for a good forty years. Actually, i’ll be around for another forty four because i’m living two hundred so they’ll be around there’s a lot of wealth in the baby boomer generation, they have proven to be generous with their wealth, lots of reasons to pay attention to baby boomers and to promote and market the state and retirement plan gifts to them, as well as paying attention a millennial’s again, this is not an either or depending on your mission and depending on the makeup of your constituents, they may both very well fit in. Okay, my video saying a little more on that is at tony martignetti dot com it’s my pleasure to welcome steve rio to the show. He is founder and ceo of bright webb, a social impact consultancy delivering strategy, branding and digital. He aims to build the world’s most flexible, engaged and efficient company. He’s, an expert in exponential organizations, remote and distributed teams and workforce, wellness and performance. He consults with impact leaders to reimagine their organizational strategies, systems and company cultures. The companies that bright webb b r i t e web dot com and he’s at steve rio. Welcome to the show, steve. Hi, how are you? I’m very well. How you doing? I’m doing great. Good. Were you calling in from? I’m calling from my home office on bowen island in british columbia, canada. Wonderful bowing island. How far offshore is bowen island? Probono island is the closest island to vancouver. It’s about a twenty minute fairy. But it’s a small little community about thirty, five hundred people. So just a small, small island. Okay. And you’re a good, uh, i don’t know. Six, seven thousand miles from new york city. That’s about right. That’s. All right. Right now. Yeah. Okay. That’s where i’m sitting so, uh, okay. It doesn’t matter who got twenty. Eighteen. It hasn’t mattered for a long time. Okay. Um, you’ve been you’ve been spending a lot of time learning about researching the science of focus and attention. What? What? What brought you to this? Yeah. So, i mean, i’ve been thinking about this, i guess, as a leader of a company of about five years ago, we moved to more of a remote model where we’re kind of embracing twenty first century practices around, you know, organizing people, so we started allowing people to work remotely and and travel while working and doing things like that. And then a couple years ago, we launched a distributed workforce of freelancers, so we have freelancers in twenty five cities around the world now and, you know, over that time, one of what i’ve learned for knowledge workers there’s an increasing onus on the individual to think about how they manage their time, their work have it how we organize our offices, whether those air, virtual or physical spaces and just really thinking about, you know, the capacity and capabilities of our teams. And so i guess even for myself thinking about how to maximize productivity and howto really achieved the most impact i can have in the work we do it’s become a key part of my thinking on howto really maximize their teams. So it’s been a few years now where i’ve been focused pretty heavily. On this subject did you used to have a more traditional office where all our most people worked in one place? Yeah, i guess that would have been about four years ago was when we started making that transition. We were we were working out of an office. So we have an officer, vancouver. But we serve clients mainly in the united states. So we have an office in new york as well. So as soon as we had two officers that’s when we started to think about howto have you no more of a distributed approach toe work. And so four years ago, we started making that transition. Okay, i see what drove you to that. All right. So you could have come to the studio. You you could’ve visited the new york office and come to our studio here. That’s, right? But it happens to be summertime and summer time on the island is pretty good. So i understand how you could be with you in new york. That’s okay? We tried, tio. We tried to, but the schedules were just, you know, i’m not in new york all the time, either. I’m, uh, i spend a lot. Of time in north carolina, where the beach yes, i have a beach house there, and the beach is also very nice. During the summer, you might have heard rumors to that effect the ocean and beach life. Very nice in the summer months. Um, yeah, okay, so you’re and you’re interested not only in the not only interested, but you’ve been spending time researching not only the conscious aspects of this, but unconscious earth. Yeah, well, so to me, there’s sort of a couple of key components. One thing is how we organize our time. You know, i think about this from if we’re thinking about the social sector, which is who our clients are in a lot of who i consult with and work with. I think about the capacity of our teams because i think we have pretty severe limitations on budgets on operational budget specifically and thinking about howto increase the capacity of our workforce. And i think one of the ways we can do that is by really looking at the way we structure our time and the way we you know what kind of habits we reinforce in the office place and i think first off, there’s the component of just getting focused, work done and thinking about distractions, thinking about how we’re implementing technology and the sort of core components of that, i think a second component is around creativity and around creating space and allowing people actually have the time to think big and come up with creative solutions, which doesn’t happen in a busy, distracted work environment. And when you’re right in front of technology all the time, it kind of requires ah level of space to be created for people and so let’s. Ah, let’s, get some ideas. How do you how do you create that space? So i think creating spaces, it comes with first off and understanding what it means, you know, what’s interesting, like, you know, we’re starting to work with universities in canada as well as the u s and thinking about how we start to educate people from a younger age about what it means to be productive. I think we have, you know, his knowledge workers. Most of us are knowledge workers in today’s world who were working in front of a computer, and we’re creating documents or information products or things like that. Were a lot of communications, so oftentimes we feel like productivity is time spent in front of the computer o r on our devices and and i think it’s really important to realize that productivity and creativity comes also when you create space, when you go for a walk, when you take breaks when you actually disengage from the, you know, actual document creation or the actual work you’re doing and take time to process what’s happened so what’s interesting is that we have a conscious mind in a subconscious mind, and, for instance, when we learn new information, um, about six percent of that goes into our conscious mind, which is immediately available, and the other ninety four percent goes in our conscious mind, and that takes time to process and that’s where we kind of put things together and think that’s where correlation happened, that’s where true creativity happens. So, you know, i think most people would, you know, relate to the idea of the best ideas might come to them in the shower when they’re doing the dishes or when they’re, you know, doing some task that requires very little cognitive effort and that and that’s when our creativity strikes, and so what i what i try and teach my team and what i talked to people about in our workshops and the work we’re doing is about think rethinking what productivity’s means and how creating space in your days and you’re weak can actually be a very productive way to be a more creative contributor to your work. This reminds me of the dark days when i practiced law, and in those days we didn’t have why didn’t you have a computer at my desk? We’re talking about nineteen, ninety four, nine, nine, nine nine to nineteen ninety two andi i i’d have to stare at a blank ledger every day, and i knew i had to fill it up with atleast ten hours of billable activity. Otherwise i’d be working that weekend to make up the difference, and there were all kinds of building codes for for producing tangible output, but there was never a code for thinking. You know what? I just spent time thinking about your case, thinking about what the best strategy would be thinking about how to manage the relationship with this adversarial party, but i could never build for i thought and i i i had to build it into some document, some letter memo to the file or to the client that i had written this thinking time was never a billable activity, that it wasn’t a recognized thing that we should ask clients to pay for. Yeah, sorry, we feel the exact same thing as a consultant, you know, we were able to build for designing a website or creating a strategic brief for leading a workshop, but a lot of that that the thinking time is sort of out in space that we’re not. We’re not ableto billed for, which creates on, as, you know, an inverse relationship with the actual quality of the work that we’re trying to deliver. Yeah, wait, we just have a minute before a break tell me how you enforce this. How do you get people to it’s create this white space in their in their work days? Well, i think you just i mean, it’s been very interesting trying to implement this with my own company over the last couple of years and the hardest route to do this with his with young folks with the millennials grownup as digital natives. In so it’s kind of repeatedly letting them know that they’re a part of their job is delivering value like deep, valuable thinking, and to do that, they need to create some separation from technology and from their devices, and they need to create space and so really encouraging people to get up and walk around to take way. Taking meditation moments through our days, we have these virtual meditations we do throughout the week that are just three to five minutes, because i don’t think it could be. It could be a short period of time or a longer period of time longer the better. But even to destry minutes can make a big difference in your day where you’re actually fully disengaged in either in a short meditation or even just day dreaming and looking out the window. Hold that’s all we’ve got to take a break. Yeah, tell us you’ve heard the tell us mony als from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, they’re getting the revenue each month on dh from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing can use more revenue big question can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue. Ah, i’ll bet you could watch the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s that’s the way to get started now back to steve rio. Steve, i am guessing that a part of this is the especially the millennials where the tougher nuts to crack, he said they need to see you doing these things a swell like you’re you’re taking the virtual meditations with them, of course, that’s, right? Yeah. So so i think i mean, i think what’s very key for organizations realized that has to start with leadership, and so i think in my case, i’m the ceo of my company, i’m the founder of my company, so i’m ableto teo live this toe live this thes recommendations and these ideas and to really create that opportunity for people to pick it up. Now, it’s a serious behavior change for a lot of people who are very accustomed and, you know, perhaps addicted to their devices into being engaged with technology and those things so really creating behavior change, which could take some time, but it does start with leadership. Mm. And i think it all you know, it also we also have to rethink the way we organize our offices and the way we organize our work days and start to create, you know, periods of the day where people are allowed to work uninterrupted without the expectation that they’re going to re responding to emails or or taps on the shoulder or slack black messages that air coming in. I mean, the amount of distractions were seeing in our workplace today is is pretty insane, actually, when you think about how the brain works and what we actually need to do, teo, to be focused, creative and productive. So again, maybe maybe enforcement is not quite the right word, but encouragement or, uh, seems sounds like you’re stronger than just encouraging. Do you have these periods where people are no, during which people are not expected to to respond? So that’s their long term, you know, sort of thinking time and creative time. Yeah, we yeah, we do. We encourage way encouraged people to to use their calendars as a tool to block out time for that they’re weak. Where it’s very clear to everyone if they’re looking at other, you know, trying to find a time to book a meeting that these, you know, we encouraged ninety minute blocks of time because that’s really the amount of time that the the brain can, you know, we can focus on a hard cognitive tasks without meeting a break. So these ninety minute blocks, we encouraged those in the morning whenever possible because that’s really the most, uh, energy or your brain is going to have for the for the day. And we also created some tools, so we use black, like many, you know, like many companies, we use flak for internal communications, kind of quick, quick communications, but we’ve created a tool where people can basically turn on a snooze button for their slack, which notifies others when they messaged them to say, this person is in a focus what we call a focus block for x amount of minutes, and it indicates the amount of minutes before that person will be available again. Okay, so both some tools as well as practices and then what we’re what we’re looking at now is looking at sort of a shared a shared timeline throughout the day that works because we work on both the primarily the west coast in east coast time zones in north america, but basically looking at a calendar format that works for both, where there’s specific periods of the day where everyone is encouraged to focus in on their work and other shorter periods of time where everyone is focused to then use those periods to collaborate, communicate, ask questions and do all the regular sort of things that are necessary to move project forward. When you’re interviewing people to work for you, do you bring up these topics and sort of assess their their willingness? We do we? I mean, i don’t expect i don’t really feel like it a subject that is taught in universities or that many workplaces have ever really considered, so i don’t necessarily expect people to come in with a knowledge of it, but i do expect people to be open to it and willing to adopt it, and actually, as we’ve developed this content, more and more we’ve done two things one is internally, we’re starting to build a curriculum for this that will be basically required learning it’ll be part of our onboarding process that people will go through over the first a month or two of being being part of our company, where they will, they’re basically build these habits up, and these will be poor expectations of our of our work, of our workforce. The second thing we’re doing is is creating we’ve created a new entity called right well on break wells, you know, mandate is to help train and educate people through workshops were working like i said, we’re about to embark on a university tour to start teaching this as a supplementary content to college students. So my my my goal would be that people start to recognize this is the core necessity for for the workforce, not just being a subject matter expert and say, fund-raising or marketing or whatever, you know, your your specific areas, but also your work habits. So really thinking about both as as critical to success. How often do you do the virtual meditations? We have those happening every day of the week and there in a couple different times and what they are, they’re basically optional five minute meditations where people can jump on a video call, yeah, like on a video link, and they every we jump on the video and we just start with everybody sharing a one word kind of update on where they’re at so it could be stressed or excited or tired or just something to check in really quickly. And then we have a three, three, two, four minute guided medication that we all listen to. What it was really interesting is that the the actual active taking those three to four minutes is really relaxing and rejuvenating, you know, energetically, but it also brings people together in a very interesting way that we always end the calls of people, the big smile on their face and kind of connected in a way, even though we’ve been mostly silent together for those three to four minutes pretty neat how many of those do you participate in? I try to do them at least three or four times a week. I participate in a lot of them, i don’t i don’t leave them, but yeah, i try to participate in them a lot. I mean, i think, like i say, a lot of this is lead by example and and show that even a busy ceo of the company can take that time, you know, creating that space is possible, it’s a matter of sort of changing your mind set around how you structure your day no, we’re going tow. We’ll take another break and when we come back, i want to i want to start talking about your encouragement for non-cash hour, mindfulness and and attention. Great text to give. You’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving easy for your donors is our newest sponsor welcoming them again? If your donor’s consent a text, they could make a donation. How much simpler could it be? It’s simple, affordable, it’s secure the ceo is chad chad boyd. You can talk to him. The way to get started is text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine for info and to claim a special listener offer. We got about six more minutes for focus and attention. And so, steve really let’s make that shift what’s your encouragement for people outside the work day. Yeah, this is to me is a such a critical area and it’s very interesting to try and, you know, impact people’s personal behaviors, right? And i think it’s a critical component of our success that work is their success out of work. And i think to me, they’re all combined these days. So there’s a few things we really focus in on one is people’s morning habit. So how did they start their day? Particularly the first thirty minutes to their day. So really encouraging people to wake up without technology. So just stay off of of the internet, on off social media and off their email and things like that for the first thirty minutes of the day. It’s proven it’s a very critical time where we’re shifting mind state from, you know, from asleep to a conscious state, and it is a key time to sort of tell the tell the brain what type of what type of hey, am i gonna have is going to be a fragmented, distracted day where there’s all sorts of news and e mails and alert coming in? Or is it going to be a day where i’m focused on my priority? So the morning routine, we talk a lot about there’s, other aspects of that too, where we wait, just think about can you get some physical time in o r sum? Like even if it’s just yoga or a walk or something like that? But how? Do you think about your morning? And similarly before you okay? Before you move on, i want to focus on the morning. All right, so so you’re recommending eso. Okay. So, it’s, fine to wake up with your phone. Okay, your phone is your alarm. Okay? You silence. That sounds like don’t put it on snooze taken extra ten to fifteen minutes. Right? That’s bad. Probably, uh, okay. And now set aside. Don’t check e mail. Don’t look at the latest alerts. Um, what do you want? What do you want me to do? Right after i hit that silence button on the alarm. Yeah. So i think probably the most. The healthiest thing you could do for your day is to wake up to spend the first few minutes of your day, perhaps thinking about your top, you know, maybe what you want to achieve that day, maybe thinking about what? Your great before, like, you know, taking a few minutes to have a bit of a gratitude practice. So a simple way to think about that is just every morning. Think about three things that you’re grateful for and those could be, you know, somebody important in your life some projects you’re working on, you know, the sun is out. It could be very simple things, but taking a few moments to be grateful and two to to, you know, feel good and excited about your day. And then i think also spending the first few minutes, uh, doing something physical, if possible, if you can get up in the first thing you do is get outside and breathe fresh air and go for a walk. That’s a very healthy way to start your day and to warm up your body in your mind so i can stop in the bathroom first, right on my way to the walk. Absolutely. Okay, but don’t eat anything, you know, okay, because otherwise out of bladder pain be terrible walk so yeah, and it could you might, you know, you could wake up and make your coffee or make your tea or, like, i think, just having basically a morning routine that is calm and present, where you’re spending time in the present moment, whether it’s like a lot of people for them it’s the ritual of making a great coffee and thinking about their day and looking out the window. And just, you know, taking a few moments to be very present at the beginning here today is a great way to ground your energy and be more resilient when you do start, you know, getting your work environment and you start getting emails or not you and all sorts of information, you’re a lot. You have a lot more resilience and ability to be, you know, president and capable of handling whatever stone at you. Now, this sounds good intuitively is their research that bears this out. What this is this effect throughout the day that you’re describing there is a lot of there is research around, yeah, around the way that you start your day. So when people, when people start today with technology, whether it’s, whether it’s work related, so se e mails rather kind of alert first off, any type of work e mails or things like that can immediately trigger an anxiety response, even if it’s not necessarily a negative thing, it could just mean hope there’s an urgent thing or something pops up, and so when you start your day with that way, you’re basically haven’t heightened, uh, heightened dose of what we call cortical zoho yeah, yeah, and this is where your stress is, one of those one of reaction to stress hormones well, basically spike right out of the gate without having a warm up to the day and then there’s also research that shows when you start your day with technology, your brain is basically triggered into a highly reactive state, which means that you’re more likely to be distracted on dh less able to stay on task through the morning after the day. I mean, so so you’re more likely you’re basically telling your brain if you think about our brain in a more about, you know, primitive sense, if you wake up and you’re immediately alerted to thirty different things, you’re basically telling your brain today is a day where i just need to be aware of anything that moves around me, which is not necessarily the state you want to be in when you wantto get him focused. Work done. Okay, so the research bears it out. All right, all right, all right. What? Anything else we have? Just about two minutes or so left. Anything else for outside the work hours that you reckon e i would. Say the at, like, the absolute most important thing people should be thinking about outside of their work is their sleep. And and in north america, we have a serious issue. One into adults are sleep deprived. You know, one in three adults in north america are working our surviving on less than six or left hours of sleep, and this is having a massive effect on not only our cognitive ability, but our health and well being and our mood and our mindset. And so i think, it’s one of the most undervalued, most important things we should be thinking about is getting the necessary amount of sleep there’s just an incredible amount of research, not only showing the health issues that are related to a lack of sleep and by a lack of sleep, i really mean six hours or less, or anything in that area which a lot of people consider to be a fairly normal amount osili but also the amount of cognitive decline that you that you experience. So i think a lot of times we have this this this relationship with time where we think, well, there’s not enough time to sleep. There’s so much i got to get done, but then when we don’t sleep, our productivity in our capacity and our ability to process is so low that we’re actually kind of creating a creating a negative feedback loop on where we’re getting less done with our time. I think sleep is the other area that i think people should be really focused in on and for optimal sleep. You want a dark and quiet space? I’ve done the way. Yes, we’re gonna leave it there those steve. But thank you for saying one hundred percent steve rio, you want to learn more from him finding that bright b r i t web dot com and treat him directly at steve rio. Thank you, steve. Thank you every day. Thank you. And a good night, too. Next week, amy sample ward returns with over marketing. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weather. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps dot com bye tello’s credit card. And payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna, slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine ah, creative producers, clam meyerhoff, sam leave lorts is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guys, and this music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz to get you thinking. Dahna cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 10, 2018: Your Media Relations Strategy

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Peter Panepento & Antionette Kerr: Your Media Relations Strategy
Co-authors Peter Panepento and Antionette Kerr want you to have a plan for earned, paid and owned media that’s G.R.E.A.T.: Goal oriented; responsive; empowered; appealing; and targeted. Their new book is “Modern Media Relations for Nonprofits.”

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d endure the pain of tacky fajita if you made me swallow the idea that you’re missed today’s show your media relations strategy co authors peter panepento and antionette car. I want you to have a plan for earned paid and owned media that’s great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted they’re new book is modern media relations for non-profits i told you, take two millennials versus boomers we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant wagner see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. What a pleasure to welcome peter panepento to the studio and his co author, internet kurt to the show by phone. Peter welcome, welcome back. I’m excited to be back on tony martignetti non-profit radio back to the show. First time in the studio, though first time in the studio, we’ve done it by phone. We’ve done it on site at conferences, but never in the studio. So it’s pretty cool to see you in your native habitat. Thank you very much. Peter’s cofounder and philanthropic practice leader of turn to communications, a pr in communications firm working with non-profits and foundations, he has deep experience in the media and non-profits he was a journalist for more than twenty years, most recently as a managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy that’s where i first met him even before he was managing editor. He’s at turn hyphen, too dot ceo and at peter panepento internet car welcome to the show. Thank you for having my pleasure. Internet is the founding ceo of bold and bright media, a multimedia publishing company helping non-profit writers tell their stories. She also works as a non-profit leader and a journalist. She contributes a weekly column for the lexington dispatch in north carolina, that’s where she started in journalism, she’s been a ted ex presenter and is a contributor to non-profit marketing guide that’s, a friend of the show give you the room, miller she’s been on a few times. Internet is at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t again. Welcome, antionette. Look. Thank you. Welcome from north carolina. Now i have two homes in north carolina, in pinehurst and emerald isle. Where is lexington? I think it is somewhat north of finders. But finders is beautiful and it’s a lovely place. Not like to go and visit. Great place to go. Yes, it is. I’m not. Yeah. I’m not a golfer. A lot of friends say that’s a waste of a house in pine er’s. Because it’s actually on a golf course. But i just watched them thankfully. It’s. A nice, quiet sport and i don’t know too much about sports. But it’s a nice quiet one. It goes by in the backyard. I don’t hear them. No golf balls in the kitchen, windows xp. Fine. Where so we should get together sometime. We definitely should have written for a pine straw, which is a beautiful publication there in-kind okay, so, yeah, you get a chance to pick that up? I haven’t written for them in a while, but it’s really great magazine. Excellent. Pine straw, i’ll look for it together. Peter and antionette have this book new book called modern media relations for non-profits creating and active pr strategy for today’s world antionette let’s stick with you. Why? Why do we need a media strategy? Well, we need a media strategy because i haven’t been on the other side of covering non-profit and then on the executive director side, i was actually exactly director of where q different non-profits i realized that there was a missing element of communication, and a lot of that has to do with not having a media strategy. Most non-profits don’t have a sign media relations coordinator, we we wish we all had the money to do that thing strategy is really a cost effective way to implement some tools. Second make you a media darling that can help you get promoted in larger publications or on television and radio, so that our goal in writing this book was just to help people with, you know, some constant, active and quick ways that they can improve their media relations strategy. Peter, you were at clark chronicle of philanthropy when i first met you. I think you were web. Editor. That guy was probably right. Yeah, i was on your podcast that’s right before i had this show. I’m pretty sure this is very meta. Yeah, we’ve come. Yes. The student has become the teacher. You have to obey me now. We were in the chronicle philanthropy studio. Um and yeah, i think you were web editor. Alright. So through web editor, you became assistant. Was this a managing editor? And they’re managing editor or one of the managing editor’s eye was a system managing editor. Yeah, go right. The point is through that time you had you received thousands of from press releases to enquiries to phone calls, maybe tenth out who knows from non-profits trying to get attention, right? What are i mean, we have an hour together, so we can’t say it all here. Okay? What? What do you what? One or two things you wish non-profits could do? Would do better around their media? Yes. So, it’s interesting. I’ve been on both sides of this equation now, and i know how hard it is to pitch stories that yes, but but, you know, like antionette i had twenty years of experience in journalism, so i got a lot of pitches over the years, and as you noted, the time i had at the chronicle, i got a lot of pitches from non-profits and i think i think the biggest, biggest turnoff for journalists and the biggest thing i wish i could do when i would get a bad ah pitch from a from on organization is give some really basic advice to actually get to know the publication and the person that you’re pitching. This is that of getting blanket pitches that you send everybody, you know, get to know who you’re actually pitching and and know what they cover and and know a little bit about what the reporter editor cares about and taylor your pitch to that to that reporter, knowing what she or he might be interested in covering and the angle that they would want to cover. Okay, duitz you get so many, you get so many pitches that really the ones that stand out are the ones that that kind of, you know, they show some research, they show some research, they know what they cover like at the chronicle, we’re not going to come and cover your charity gala. Every every charity in the country covers a charity gala, but i would get, you know, all these news releases from organizations pitching their gala. I’m not going to cover that, but if you tell me something unique about what that gala might teach other non-profits or can identify a speaker, that might be of interest to a broader non-profit audience that might get my attention. So do that little extra bit of research find out what’s unique about what you’re doing and how that that unique thing that you’re doing actually intersects with the interests of that reporter you’re reaching out, okay? We’ll talk more about your advice for press releases specifically, but okay, excellent. So cem basic do some basic research now. I was disappointed to read in the book that newsrooms are no longer like i saw in the movie spotlight. It doesn’t mean it’s not like that anymore. It’s not it’s, not and what’s really interesting about spotlight, too is that that was pretty reese, right? I mean, that was an investigative team at the globe about ten years ago that was doing some major investigative work, some of that’s happening now, but in a lot. Of cases newsrooms have been really cut to the bone, they’ve been commoditized, the business has really changed and and as a result, there aren’t thes robust reporting staffs in these big news holes that you’re going after it’s become a lot more competitive, especially for non-profits who may actually be reaching out to publications that don’t have anybody who actually covers non-profits as a beating the non-profit beat right? All right, we’re going, we’re going toe take our first break, and it is for pursuant your newspaper is pursuing e-giving outlook, they took the latest fund-raising reports and boiled them down to the takeaways you need in a concise content paper. Watch the archive of their related web in or do both it’s, an ensemble piece of paper with matching webinar through the coordination both are on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital p for please now back to your media relations strategy. So peter what’s the implication of this degradation of the newsroom loss of the newsroom, no longer a non-profit beat reporter for non-profits trying to get the attention of media there, some negatives and positives related to that, i would say the big negative is that it’s a lot harder to identify the people you need to build relationships within news organizations and it’s a lot also a lot harder to get your story place, because there’s there, our reporter now might be hearing, you know from from even more folks who are competing for the limited space and what we’re talking about a newspaper here in this case in the newspaper. But it actually goes across local television and other things, too. There’s just the news hole ott of a lot of news organizations now have less space, or they are part of a conglomerate and there’s some, you know, national coverage in your local newscasts that has that’s eating up time now to that’s kind of mandate and there’s no one devoted to the non-profit beat, right? So the surgeon or the people you’re pitching r r have multiple assignments? Absolutely. Nobody is devoted to your your category of existence that’s, right? And people are turning over quickly too, so i’m so the net result of all of that is is you’re competing with a lot more people for a lot less attention. The upside of that, though, is if you are really good about building relationships with a few key reporters out there, and they start to trust you their time is so short instead of you having to pitch to them, they’re going to come to you probably a lot more regularly when they need an expert on a specific topic. So if you’re able to break through and get the attention of that reporter and and they trust you, um, that becomes really valuable to you and that’s really a key basis of the book to its howto build those relationships and howto break through and get to the point where it’s not just you sending news releases out to reporters and hoping they cover it, but but that they’re actually coming to you when they need an expert on your cause or on what’s happening in the nonprofit sector in your community or, you know, whatever you’re really looking, push, we need our media relations strategy to be much deeper than spread what you caught spray and praise brain provoc press releases, you know, to one hundred outlets, none tailored and just and just hopeful weigh a lot deeper that we’ll get to it, we’ll get to it shortly antionette by the way, i love the name antionette that was my grandmother’s name on my father’s side. Antionette antionette do you do you go by and short or do admonish people know it’s antionette now, it’s just that it’s hard to fail, but when it was hard enough to learn that name, so i think i’ll just go by that name because i noticed you have a n t i o n e t t and i think the more common spelling is oh, i end absolutely catches everything i never yet it’s right on my show sheet. I’ll prove it, peter, i’ll show him i have it spelled right every time because you’re smelling it like a grandmother, but i know i noticed i noticed you spell it differently. I thought maybe you were saying antionette but no, not internet. It’s okay, antionette martignetti was grandma martignetti you spend all the time in the book talking about ethics? Why internet? Why? Why? If we’re approaching media, why do we know about? Why do we need to know what’s the some ethics guidelines basics for journalists? Well, this is an important time in an important environment you’ve been a journalist. So one thing one of my pet peeves is whatever i work on a story non-profits asked me if they can read it, which would cause me to lose my job. I really leave a lot of people don’t understand that, you know, it could be really offensive that crosses the line between advertising and paid yeah versus a really urgent media story. So you know, where you go to a television producer, for example, and working studio you might be ableto see it after it edited and sent you, but you don’t really get to have input in that process, so we wanted people to understand that, and to really it’ll help with your relationship. So we begin our book with some jargon in terms that we use like moon, where the peter just talked about you tell me why someone would want to come to your gala will for a journalist, you say here’s, why they knew where they are, ears perked up so that’s that will really help people in establishing relationships to understand the ethics and the jargon and behind the scenes scenario with newsroom another point, you make his offering someone journalist free admission to a gala. Or maybe, you know, can i buy you a lunch? You should. We should know that. There’s. A good chance. You know you’re polite offers will politely be turned down. Right, and most organizations have a have a policy about that on the other side of the news room, so don’t take offense if they say no, i can’t accept your ticket. I mean, it’s it’s for, you know, a ten dollar event that might be that might not be an issue, but if it’s for one hundred fifty dollars gala, you know that that might be an issue for journalists, except that it could be considered, and julie influencing their objective news stories on din the new york metro area, it could be a fifteen hundred dollar ticket right way. Okay, we’ll get there in north carolina. It’s coming, it’s going, well, i’m not i’m not saying that’s a good thing anyway, i’m just saying that that’s that’s the state of the state of some some dollars in the northeast or certainly in the new york metro area, i’m not saying that that’s something to aspire to by any means, right? So you antionette you touched on earned and paid versus owns you in the book the two of you call this the trifecta could you distinguish between earned payden and owned media for us? Absolutely. And the trifecta isn’t a unique term for our conversation when that is used quite often in the journalism world, but what i noticed is that non-profits we’re really focused on earth media, but sometimes their strategies weren’t connecting their own video, which earned media traditional journalism. So it is what a reporter on whether it’s radio on the radio are print, which cover and its objective information paid media is advertising, and then all of the media which people forget that they actually own their own media sources right now between social media and website, they they do have control over that i’m seeing people, for example, a community college that had a huge cam picking that they paid for with an advertising firm to say we want a traditional student but well written their website, it didn’t really correlate with the messaging that they have paid so much money through advertising and paid people to get stories and earned the other press releases, and then they didn’t coordinate that with their own owned media that we really talk about dating you cover that case in the book that they were paying to get nontraditional students, but then there’s social media and the website was highlighting volleyball and some other sport. You know, it was highlighting the sports, and so people are looking for coordination in message, and they weren’t finding it right. They were born. They were showing back about players, and they wanted older students, people to consider themselves a student. If they’re older, they had a violent past about being featured on the website. Let’s, see so let’s stick with you internet talk a little about the earned media. Peter gave some tips about press releases. What i like way like here, actionable, no actionable strategies tips. You know what? What, what, what some other advice around making press releases more likely to be acted on and not not trashed. We have a section where we talk about appealing for may have been working with pressure lisa’s much first job as an intern at a newspaper with a full presently about the fax machine and deliver it to the right. This doesn’t seeing press releases the good, the bad and before quite some time and for non-profits a particular thing after you that they’re not really appealing a lot of times that we’re having the same event. You know, we talked about the gala where a golf tournament, we just kind of recycle the same press release every year and again, that’s not showing what worthy and a lot of times when you read the press release, i tell people, if you get bored reading your own press release that, don’t they? So just to make him appealing is good and then as some really powerful quote. So once the happiest people has this really stuffy quote from the executive director, that doesn’t end quality to the conversation. So that quote from from your weather report chairs or eighty your communications director to me, something exciting, not great language, but nothing exciting. You even recommend you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person, even if you’re the internal. You know, if you’re the internal communications person, you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person you’re going to quote, you can get some of their active language and bring some of that passion out that theyve got for the subject. Absolutely, absolutely that’s part of making your strategy appealing. So, you know, just just kind of sprucing up the language and and again removing the jargon from your non-profit and your great language. I feel like people, especially if they receive a grant that cutting case, you know, part of their executive summary into the press release and the journal is not you. I love making this news worthy. So, peter, our press release is still valuable men. Should we even bother be doing them, though? Yeah, i mean there’s value to him. But i think they shouldn’t be the default any more. I think a lot of organizations think there think that by sending news releases out, whenever they have something to announce that’s their media relations, they’ve got made a strategy right right on that it should be part of the picture, but it shouldn’t be the whole picture, and they are valuable in a couple of ways. One is they actually can provide valuable information to a reporter when they’re reporting on a story they’re very helpful toe have posted on your website a zoo in an archive for when people are looking for information specifically when reporters are looking for information on a lot of times, if you have those news releases posted on your website, they may connect through a story they’re writing on. It may not happen the day you signed the release out, but three months from now, if you release an important report on something and reporters covering that issue let’s say you put a report out about hunger in your community and it gets to be around the holidays and reporters doing story about hunger and hunger charities around the holidays that release might actually get their attention when they’re looking for information so there’s value there. But when i think you’re sending them out, i i feel like you get a lot more attention and you do a lot better job of building relationships if instead of just sending a news release to everybody on your media list, you you identify a few people and actually send a personal note to that reporter talking about what’s coming up, you know, giving them a heads up about what’s there, talking about some things that might be of interest in that announcement to that reporter and then making yourself available is a resource for for follow-up either right then or whenever the reporter needs that, i think if you actually spent more time doing that and less time just cranking out press releases you, you get more of your news covered and you built some better relationships and that the personal note idea. You have a little section in your book where you say you’re recommending something, you say way, have we switched years to make this a fund-raising book? No, you’re talking about relationships with reporters? Yeah, yeah, and no. So, i mean, i know it’s. Just that relationships are important and the personal note goes above and beyond how many personal. You know how many personal handwritten notes would you get in a month? You know what? The chronicle of philanthropy? Very few. But you know what? Average it’s a stand. And it stands up, you know? So he’s going to get rid. Exactly, write something stupid in your hand written note. You know, it’s still gonna end up in the garbage, right? So don’t try anything stupid, but, you know, you can stand out absolute waste. And that z very, uh it’s perfectly consistent with what we say about dahna relationships, absolutely for fundraisers sends the personal thank you note from a boardmember or something? Yeah, the personal notes, the thank you’s are really crucial. Azan example on dh this has happened fairly recently. One of the clients i work with, you know, is looking to build relationships with reporters who cover philanthropy in wealth. And i’ve reached out to a really prominent ray boerner, who covers wealth and have built a relationship with him without ever actually pitching a story to him. Yeah. So, you know, i sent along a couple of of story ideas to him and explain to him who i was and who i worked with and how i could be helpful to him. And we had a bit of a back and forth, and it got to a point where he actually reached in some of the email back and forth, he finally reached out to me and said, hey, i’m working on the story. Do you have any people who can who can be quoted and and i got back to him with three people home run, yeah, he’s asking you, he’s asking me, and then on top of that following that and, you know, actually delivering on it and him getting the sources he wanted. I got our email back afterwards where you actually i thank him for the story and he replied back and he said, you are now in the pantheon of pr people whose emails all open every time. So if grand slam, if you can deliver on that, you can you can move yourself into that pantheon and and that’s way more valuable than that would’ve been way more that one relationship is way more valuable than me putting a release out on pr newswire and hoping it gets picked up a thousand times more. See all these ideas in the book you got to get the damn book that’s just the point where we can’t cover everything in an hour. It’s modern media relations for non-profits just buy-in panepento incur. Just get the done thing let’s see? Okay, little moron earned media. That was some good in the media for us, right? They’re actually very good. It wasn’t e-giving, but nobody. You’re welcome, but nobody listens to this show way. Have over thirteen thousand. Um, let’s. Stick with you, peter. Peter p on on beds writing your you can write up ed. You’re writing on spec though you might spend a lot of time. It may not get printed, but it could be valuable if it if it does absolutely, you can be purposes. That’s, right? Ok. Writes a little opera. Okay. So op eds. If you’re not familiar with what i’m not, that is if their opinion pieces that are written by outside writers. Thank you. You’re a newspaper keeping me out of george in jail. Well, my own show. I have jack in jail and i think it’s interesting s o, i’m about to put out an e book on top says, and we’ve had a really hard time titling it because way can’t assume that anybody knows what an op that is so it’s kind of an internal struggle i’m having right now too, but ah ah lot of people think that op eds are kind of ah dinosaur thing of the past that they don’t really exist anymore, but guess what? Newspapers are still running them, and in fact they’re probably running more of them now because they have smaller staff, so they’re actually looking for more writers to contribute to their pages. So if you’re actually looking to advance an idea or, you know, advance an issue trying to, you know, build awareness about, you know, health care and you’re in your community or some kind of gap there, this is an opportunity for you to build a, well, a statue, you know, well crafted argument written by a thought leader in your organization, your ceo, your executive director, you know, the head of whatever initiative you’re working on and and use that space is a is a a place to kind of articulate your argument about why that issues important and what’s being done about it, or what people can do about it and a cz you noted the great value of that, you know, there is competition for these so you you’re writing these on spec your you may send it into ah paper, and they may not pick it up. The op ed page is limited space, right? Exactly if it does get picked up. Wonderful, right? You’ve gotten you’ve gotten in there if it doesn’t get picked up now you have a piece of writing that you can use for other things, you can use it on. You’re on your own media, you can use it on your website. You could put it in an appeal to donors. You can put it in your annual report. You khun it’s, it’s, not wasted effort. You can you can do something else with it. And the great thing about the era of internet journalism now, too is if the if the peace does get picked up before you know, twenty years ago you pick up the newspaper, you’d read the op ed that day and you throw it away. Now it lives forever online and when people are searching on that topic, your op ed might show up six months later and you might win a new supporter. You might, you know, no, get somebody who wants to learn more about your organization and joined your email list, you can get lasting value from these now internet there’s. Also some services is that you can use teo to find out what generalists are working on currently, as they’re trying to source. Haro is one help a reporter out profnet say little about those would you please sure the one of the big things that we really try to emphasize that help people find you. So a lot of times reporters are working in a silo like peter mentioned before, they have us to worry they have a story idea whether they’ve pitched it to the editor of the editor, came that i really love you to write a christmas story about non-profits in the area, i get that i get that a lot, and so here they are. You know, out here looking for sources. Finding people on facebook is a really great way, but there are services like said president, helpful reporter out sourced bottle on pitch rate that you can, you can say, you know, here here we are, here’s our mission and we can provide stories on this particular topic so you can go forward and really and thinking about your strategy think about what stories you want to share. I worked with a community that serves families who are facing homelessness, and they wanted people to know what that looks like, and they wanted to challenge this stereotype. So when they had an opportunity to connect with reporters over the holiday, they really share different stories about who was living in their community and why, and that was great for them because it was a really empowered story versus just having an expectation that you’re only is gonna work out the way you wanted to. We have just about a minute before a break internet so we’re gonna spend a lot of time after this break talking about great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted for your media strategy started start us off with goals, and we’ll have plenty of time. The finish up talk more after the break, we’re gonna start with what your advice around setting goals for your strategy? Well, i wouldn’t say start with your with your team, so you know what if whatever role you’re in and you’re reading this book, i mean, we wrote it so that it could be helpful before members of your communications staff eighties, but really start with city now with her team and talking about what is your goal for your media relations strategy? That’s a measurable outcomes like you would for a grand opportunity and think what what comes out of that conversation? It’s really simple, but not something that people take the time to do in their non-profit daily work, you have some sample? Ah, couple of sample goals you can share. Yes, one of the big goals we talked about that before, with the with the community college i worked with was, do they really sell student enrollment going down? And they thought, has only increased enrollment, so their media relations strategy goal was to show that, you know, other that, you know, you just have to be a high school student high school graduate coming directly to the community college. They wanted to emphasize that college was open and welcoming to also they said, oppcoll around that i’ve also you know, i’ve had a personal goal of my last organisation, i work for housing non-profit that kept getting mistaking for the housing authority that our goal was just for people to know our name was a big old fred. All right, we’ll take, uh, take a break. Weather cps it’s personal now heat coach doom he’s a partner. You heard him on the four hundredth show just two weeks ago. Check out the firm, then talk to him. Very good guy. He’s no pressure, have you? I don’t know if you have you ever even heard of a high pressure sepa? I’m not sure that exists, but dahna you will listen to what your needs are and then he’ll tell you whether they can help you. They are wagner, cps dot com to start and then talk to him now. Time for tony steak, too. While there is a lot of talk about millennials, including on this show covered in many times millennials, donors, i’m pursuing baby boomers. I’ve got a different perspective. If you’ve got donorsearch or sixty and over, you need to promote plan gift to them that’s gift in their estate and retirement plans? I’ve heard it so many times loyal donor-centric boardmember they’ve been giving for fifteen, twenty years, maybe more, they die and there’s nothing in their state plan for the organization, everybody expected it, you know, people are saying we just assumed it would be there, but it’s not there they were never asked. I hear about it because it’s often the reason that people initiate contact with mito to start a plan giving program because they’re so disappointed about this, this gift that you expected and wasn’t there and they don’t want to repeat that they’re competitors are asking, your competitors are asking the other non-profits it might be a small community and, you know, they’ve found out that there was a gift to another organization in their will in the community that hurts a lot, but they were left out on against that they didn’t ask. So it’s it’s really not? You know, millennials versus baby boomers uh, you don’t you might very well need to be promoting to both, depending on what your causes and who you don’t what your donor looks like, but, well, the headlines and webinars you know often are going to millennial. E-giving i’m paying attention to baby boomers sabat there’s a north an enormous amount of wealth in that generation, and they are generous with it, and that creates potential. My video says a lot more, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com let’s go back to peter panepento and antionette car who are with me talking about their new book, modern media relations for non-profits, um, answer that we were talking about goals, the g and great, um, you need to identify who you want to be pitching once, you know what you want to do you to identify, you know, who you’re what, your audiences, right, who the right journalists are absolutely, and i need to pitch with purpose. So instead of spray and phrase talk about know, how do you how do you actually pitch with purpose? And a lot of that piers talked about with your delivery of, you know, sitting a press release but also sending a personal note or pitching or approaching them even when you aren’t necessarily pitching your no, i’m agreeing with you and cut you off there no, no, absolutely absolutely that’s that’s part of our goal oriented basically it’s what’s. Your game plan? What we’re asking people, you know, what do you each year you should sit down with your non-profit and say, what’s our game plan with our media relations strategy? You some people call it a campaign, you want to look at it that way, but that is important, and it can it can enhance what you already have going on. Maybe you’re having a big no anniversary fundraiser that really wants some great media attention around that. This could really help you with promoting your fund-raising strategy well and go hand in hand. You need to think of it as something long term to write a relationship building like you were saying, peter, absolutely, and in setting the goals, they’re really not goals there. Not so much goals for your media placements, but as much as their goals for your organizations and you’re connecting your media strategy to your organizational mole. So it has the huh? The maximum value free organization if you’re only able to invest, you know, twenty hours a month of media relations let’s, make sure we’re investing those twenty hours a month on something that’s actually going to move the needle for the organization not just necessarily get you media hits for the sake of media and in the in the immediate term, right? Like, you know, if you if you’ve got your, uh, let’s say you got a milestone anniversary. So you got a fifty if their hundredth anniversary coming up, you know, the time to think about your media strategy is not two weeks before the big gala celebrating the anniversary, right? Yeah. It’s, like, eighteen months before of the anniversary. Osili abila start building those relationships like you’re talking about exactly what you want to build the relation in ships, and then you actually want to think about all right, we have we have one hundredth anniversary coming up. What do we want to? Not only not only do we want to celebrate that, but what do we want that to say? What message do we want to come out of that? Who do we want to reach with that message and having some clear goals around that that actually kind of advanced the work of your organization, you know, really gets you off much bigger lift from the effort and the investment that you are putting in the media. In the in the end. And it requires more thinking and and work up front. But it’s going to lead to much better results. And i think. What? What always gets me and and i understand why it happens is is a cz you noted like you don’t you don’t just make it an afterthought two weeks before the event. Oh, no, we’ve got to invite the media to this that’s. What leads to those cookie cutter press releases? They don’t get into any impact, but if you are actually building the relationships, you’re thinking about what the key messages are your thinking about how they connect to the reporters you want you want, you actually want to connect with, ah, that time is really well spent, and you probably actually ultimately wanna spend less time chasing stories than you. You you are if you’re just kind of doing the dahna oh, no, we need a press release conversation two weeks before that, and you’re also so much more likely to have a positive outcome absolutely and less frustration, absolutely absolutely the are they are in our great is responsive. Does this mean that our media strategy should be responsive? We’ve covered a little this already in the conversation, but really it’s about making sure that you’re not just pushing things at a reporter that you’re being responsive to that reporter’s needs and what here she might be working on. So it’s it’s really media relations there’s two words in it there’s media, obviously, but there’s relations it’s it’s building that relationship on dh kind of being attuned to and responsive to the needs of that reporter that you’re tryingto work with. So it means it means being available, it means, you know, helping connect them the sources it means sometimes actually saying we’re not the best source for you, but let me connect you to somebody at another organization who is on, and it also means to having some basic information on your website and some other places that are actually helping a reporter when they’re on a deadline, connect with you and get the information they need. So we talked a bit about the fact that a lot of non-profits don’t have, you know, a media or a pressroom page on their web sites, and if they dio, they may include a bunch of press releases there, but no contact information for for their media person on dh having been in that reporters share and looking for sources if i can’t find your media contact. Or a place to to connect with you. I’m going to move on to the next organization s o being responsible in some ways being proactive, too. It’s, you know, it’s it’s having some of those basic kind of, you know, building blocks in place to make sure that you’re you’re responding to the needs of the reporters. Internet let’s say little about this flesh is fallible, but in terms of deadlines and you know the urgency that a reporter has when they’re on assignment first, let me ask a basic question is this i used to learn back when i had relationships with people like stephanie strong at the new york times who once upon a time had the new york non-profit beat in the times that ten a m was a critical time like that was a deadline time for a lot of newspapers. Is that is that anachronistic maya dinosaur? Or does that there’s something like that still hold true? I know you’re not a dinosaur at all. I would never say that. Hee hee. I never say that, but every publication as their own deadlines and that’s another thing that speaks to what? What peter mentioned. Understanding the reporters deadline and i love whenever i reach out to people and they say what’s your deadline because they know that they’re going to try to help me keep things moving in a timely manner. That’s a good question, and one that might impress your reporter friend of what you just did. And the other aspect of this being responsive is that when the news breaks that might be related to your organization, one particular organization talked, and we share this example in the book about how there was a domestic violence situation, unfortunately, with nfl player in there state that really launched this conversation about domestic violence, and they responded, but, you know, when you’re where they call newsjacking you have to be ready to go on dh and be prepared to be the scout leader for the person leading the conversation and really no sharing why this particular thing that happens, your organization have been working with families to help ensure that that just doesn’t happen. So they were i mean, you know, when reporters call you calling back, understanding their deadlines, but also if you wanna happen, teo a popular topic in news cycle reach out to a reporter and say, i know everybody’s talking about me too, here’s, how our organization within that conversation and that’s what newsjacking is ok, just try and keep you out of jack in jail. You’re paroled, okay, but longs to explain the term newsjacking alright, so it’s taking advantage of what’s happening in the news, right, and seeing how your organization fits into it and can lend its expertise to the conversation. Absolutely. Okay, um, okay, okay. Um, anything else about well, events? Yeah, internet hyre peter. Peter was talking about events, and, you know, the ubiquitous gala press releases that he would see, but but hey, touched on this little bit. I want you to flush it out for me. If there is something newsworthy about your event, then, you know, highlight that, like he mentioned, uh, maybe a celebrity attending or something like that. Absolutely so that’s a good way to get the media out, offer them a media representative of a time before or after, where they can talk to the celebrity or the expert. You know, i’ve seen a lot of people successful when they had data report, and they offered this expert as they made it relatable to a community need, and then they offered an expert who will interview we do have a section where we talked about what to do to make your event we’d hear friendly, yes. So having been on the other side of that, you know, it has been a challenge with reporters show up everybody’s busy at the gala for the event, and, you know, things are hectic and the reporter shows up looking for the executive director, and no one can seem to find that person who was it? Who was the media contacts and doing something as simple as making a little place where you tell the reporter here’s where you could check in is nice and important, and you really don’t want the reporter roaming around, you know, in some cases talking to random people, so i went to one of it. And i assure you that i was there on assignment and never find anybody who would take the time to talk to me, so i went back and told my editor, we weren’t covering that story. So that’s that’s really, you know, one thing that people don’t think about that think about it in the media there when they’re they’re sometimes they are prepared, so we talk about how to how to make your event media’s really before, during and after the event and share some of your coaching tips for for when they are talking to the executive director ceo, the person may not be so media savvy. You have you have a lot of tips in the in the book share a couple of those for coaching in advance to prepare so coaching and prepare. You want to make sure your media person is on message that’s part of that goal conversation. So, you know, whoever is responsible for coaching the scout leader, that could be a boardmember a lot of times it is, and, you know, that’s, even worse, they don’t do work on the day to day basis, so you want to give them the key. Points, and he did don’t overwhelm them with information, but maybe even a sheet to say no if you get stuff, bring it back to this message and bring it back to this place. I recently experienced that i am on a community advisory board, so i was in that position where our public radio stations and they had a white board and the communications director was like, ok, tell me why you like public radio, and then she would tie it to key messaging, lifelong learners. So she said, well, just keep saying lifelong learners get stuck just say and i’m a lifelong learner, so that was messaging that they wanted to promote it fit within something that was very comfortable for my story and that’s a tip that i also get two people to make sure that that you give them some practical tips. But i’m not why they why they like being a part of your organization that they’re boardmember if there is the executive director, make sure they’re not doing day to day work, they’re busy thinking differently. Make sure they have a personal connection to the story. Peter, you can probably give tips for foundations. Sure, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s really about kind of both preparing the spokesperson or the leader for with, with what those key messages are, but it’s also kind of preparing them for what to do when they don’t know an answer to something, and in some cases it’s, it’s, it’s, even them saying, you know, i actually don’t have that information in my fingertips can i have? Can i have somebody follow up with you after the interview, or can we send you some more information afterwards? A reporter often, especially when they’re dealing with non-profits isn’t out to get you, you know, they want to get accurate, useful information, so though they’ll respect that and and and if you don’t know an answer to something, just say you don’t know an answer something and yeah, by the same token, you talk about the hot mic problem and the fact that anything that a reporter hears is fair game unless it’s explicitly off the record. Yes, there’s there’s tons more tips. Yeah, no, i think the one thing to keep in mind, though, is that anything you actually say can unless it’s it’s agreed upon between you and the reporter that it’s off the record and they can’t use it it’s fair game is shooting after they put their notebook and that the men away. Some of the best stuff i ever got as a reporter was after i put my notebook, you know, i closed my notebook and the doug, and it wasn’t deceptive at all. The people let their guard down a little bit, and they start talking a little bit more contemporaneously, and then you go in, the reporter might go back and say, oh, hey, do you mind if i write that down or can you can you talk a little bit more about that kind of make it give them a signal that there are they actually are still on the record, but but always assume when you’re talking to a reporter, when you’re when you’re sitting in front of a microphone like i am right now, that it’s getting picked up way have a president who knows that very well right now. All right, so you know what you say in the presence of a reporter is is on the record, and there are a lot more tips about coaching your ceo. We gotta take a break, tell us you’ve heard me say the test. The tellers, moughniyah, lt’s, tell us, moughniyah, lt’s from from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and air. Getting that revenue each month, and from the companies who are using tello’s. Four credit card processing can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue. You’ve heard the tell us. Moughniyah, lt’s. Watch the video it’s at tony dot, m a slash tony. Tell us now, back to peter panepento and antionette car. Let’s, move on because we’re going to cover the whole word greek and there’s there’s more about were jumping around. We’re jumping to different parts of it a little bit as well. Just gr yeah, it comes e what do you mean, jumping around this a planned? Well, i mean, we’re kind of covering a little bit of empowered with some of the other things we’re talking about, okay? That’s what i’m saying? Yeah, you’re staying on target antionette hyre assault so anarchists but oppcoll look, i’ll keep you on a message, all right? I’ll help you with your media strategy, your media messaging. Okay, so yeah, there’s a lot more about being responsive. Just get the book for pizza. Alright? Empowered the ian. Great empowered what do this mean? Peter it’s really about kind of owning your message and being proactive in your in your in your work with reporters and wave touched on this issue at different points in the conversation here, but it’s really about not waiting for things to happen to you, but kind of being in a position where you’re where you’re taking an empowered and proactive role in talking about your organization and reaching out to reporters in showing up in the places where where they are so it’s not just again sending emails and press releases its making sure that your, you know your web page has the right information it’s making sure that yes, your own properties? Yeah, you know it’s actually properly it’s it’s, it’s identifying the reporters that you care most about uncover your beat following them on twitter and, you know, retweeting their messages and doing things they’re so you’re kind of showing up on their radar screen and getting their attention that way. It’s it’s really taking the steps that you can in little and big ways to to make sure that that, you know you are showing up and you are kind of putting yourself out there and all the places that really that really help your organization get a story told in the media also, if there’s some placement and it’s inaccurate o r you’re accused of being fake news or you have some rights in this process, absolutely too, and being empowered is recognizing what to do when when this story is wrong or, you know, you feel like something is mischaracterized you feel like somebody’s misquoted. They got a fact wrong, it’s it’s knowing that you have some tools in your toolbox to ask for a correction to run a write a response letter to the editor to take steps to actually own your message. Even in the cases where part of the story was missing or keep perspective was missing. Your organization’s left out of a story that you feel like you should have been in, you know, knowing that you actually have a right and and, uh and an ability to actually advocate for yourself and try to right those wrongs. And we have a lot of tips on how to do that. You also have advice on positioning your organization. Somebody within your organization is a thought leader. Yes. Power say little about s o and an answer not. And i both weigh both work on this issue quite a bit. It’s it’s. You know if and and ties back to your goal. Let’s, say your goal is to position your your organization, your community college as a place for lifelong learners. For people who are nontraditional students having and and by doing that one of the things you decide you want to do is you want to get the message out that there’s value in education in your thirties, forties and fifties, for instance, having an expert on your staff being kind of the voice for that issue, who’s out, advocating and talking about that in your in your own media, but also in her new media is really valuable. So having tony martignetti, the expert in our college, on lifelong learning and looking, you know, for opportunities for him to write op eds for him to be a voice in coverage of education around that issue. You’re branding a person and your organization is a thought leader, but by extension, you’re raising the profile of your organization and building relationships that will get you more media coverage and get you more attention from prospective students, prospective donors and others. There’s a lot of advice in the book about how to position yourself, how to make yourself ready, making organization ready for for to position yourself as as thought leaders plus thank you for the the durney talk pretty when he says my name martignetti martignetti three italians and thank you for that. Yeah, i should have made it about playing, giving. All right, because that’s where your i was going to admonish you that on very shortly start for our last break text to give mobile donations made easy, it’s, simple, affordable, secure. While i was on their sight for a few minutes last night, donations were popping up. The window pops up. Tells you with new donation the ten. Twenty, there are multiple fifties, there was a fifteen hundred donors are using them. Text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine for info on text to give and to claim your special listener offer. Got about six more minutes for your media relations strategy. Internet let’s. Turn to you, teo. Talk about the r is appealing. Your media relations strategy needs to be appealing. What do you two mean there? So we spent time interviewing other journalists about what they would like to see. Not just based on our experience, but we interviewed other people about what they wanted to see in covering non-profits and here’s. How that chapter came together. People told us what they what they wanted to see impressively. The list of them against the elements of a really good quote. I mentioned it. Earlier that people didn’t want to see, you know, great jargon were like, you know, since, um, you know, very it sounds like the official statement of the organization in the quote, but they were looking for something a little bit, you know, when one reporter described it exactly, like, give me something sexy and so that’s how this appealing conversation came about, and the other thing is visuals, a lot of people are under pressure, they might have one photographer that is going to cover breaking news or that that is really important because they high resolution, high quality photos and in some cases, officially, in the television side, videos for the website there’s a pressure we heard from television reporters to have other content on the web site outside of the interviews so that the media source can run that. So having me visuals are very appealing to people, and they’re very helpful when you’re covering something like data and report like, you know, some of us who like that, you know, like reports, but of others in immediate really need to know what’s appealing about your report, so having a very cool executive summary and maybe some really great brand messaging will be helpful. You know, something colorful, even a cover, read it and just spending that in your press early. So those are some of the things we talked about, and we also talk about if you are able to do that, it might be time that hyre announce that resource. So that’s, a question that came up for a lot of non-profit that we interviewed, like, when do we know it’s time to invest? We don’t have this ability to make it appealing or the time in our wheelhouse. So we just give some examples of when you might want to invest in and out, that a company that can help you get placement in coverage, like a turn to that, that that is a really question for non-profit. A little piece of earned media there, like like a turn, too. Yeah, turn hyphen to dr dot ceo that’s, right? Wow, yeah, yeah, bookmark it, everyone. I tell you something else. Ah, on appealing visual. Yeah, you sent you say in the book on lee on ly fourteen percent of the press releases that pr newswire hosts have have anything visual on them, even though it’s a very good idea was, like fourteen percent or doing it so you could be in the and you could be in the eighty sixth percentile. If you just start doing some writing, you’re having some visuals that a publication can not only get the attention of the reporter, but they could run with a story they might cover gives you a bit of a leg up having a photo having cem cem, you know, nicely produced infographics for report. You have those things actually can help tip the scales for you in a really big way, a little known secret at the chronicle, and i’m sure stacey palmer’s either going to be very happy or admonished me afterwards for saying this, but they don’t have a staff photographer at the chronicle philanthropy almost all of the photos they run, they either have to hire out or they get them from non-profits that air cover that that they’re covering, and having been inside the chronicle for years, um, you know, often it would fall on the reporter to actually find photos for a story and guess what if if i know a non-profit has an interesting perspective, and they have a great photo that could go with my piece and i and i and i know i can check that off my box and get that done, you know, i’m going to spend a little extra time talking to that non-profit making sure i can work them into the story because now i have a photo to go with the story so ah, a little piece of tip if you’re trying to get the chronicle, have some good photos available for him. Stacy problem, of course. Dropping names. She’s, the editor in chief? Yes, yes. Alright. Antionette i’m going to turn to you with a little bit of pressure. We just have about a minute. So would you explain targeted, please? I will indeed. We talked about it already in the we mentioned that somewhere in the goal oriented section again, this is identifying relationship. One of the things we talk about, we give an example of a non-profit that really had some great media coverage to a podcast that was related to the topic, so they work in the areas of george preservation, and they connected with george preservation podcasts and it’s the best media coverage they were able to receive, they were ableto have fun donors and boardmember through this relationship. So, you know, taking some time to sit down, we call it modern media relations because a lot of the other books were out before podcasts were even popular, but we really try to challenge people to think about a targeted strategy. And where is your audience? The best audience for you and your non-profit work? Yeah, i’ll give you thirty seconds on targeted. Yes. Oh, this podcast is example of that. Antoinette and i you know, when we were mapping out our media strategy for this book, we targeted a few outlets that we thought were really valuable. They were the outlets that reached non-profit leaders and folks who could benefit from this book. And guess what? You were on that list by implication buy-in non-profit radio is a valuable resource, absolutely. Bye. You know, we didn’t send this to folks who covered the textiles industry. We sent it to folks who cover non-profits and we were really targeted and who we knew we reached out to him. He’s peter panepento you’ll find him at turn hyphen too. Dot ceo and at peter panepento and she is antionette car at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t internet peter. Thank you so, so much. Thank you. This was great pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure, antionette next week. Not sure have ever let you down, though, except for that one show on fermentation. But that aside, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com bye tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, known to these teo co authors sam leaving, which is the line producer. You have to get the book to see how they know her. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. Thank you, cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in something potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 3, 2018: How We Got Here, Revisited

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Robert Penna: How We Got Here, Revisited
In June 2016, Dr. Robert Penna shared an early, partial excerpt of the book he was working on. The book is published and he’s back to explain the unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s nonprofit sector. His book is “Braided Threads.”

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I break out into papel idema if i saw that you missed today’s show how we got here revisited in june twenty sixteen dr robert penna shared an early partial excerpt of the book he was working on. The book is published and he’s back to explain the un project unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s non-profit sector. His book is braided threads tony steak, too sunshine and bees we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers whether cps dot com bye, tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine every. Glad welcome dr robert m penna bob back to the studio. He’s, the author of the new book braided threads ah, historical overview of the american non-profit sector he served five years as a consultant to charity navigator, and also as an outcomes consultant to the world scout bureau. Indeed, his last book was the non-profit outcomes toolbox, which we talked about on this very show he’s presented before non-profit organizations and associations across the u s and in canada, poland, kenya, saudi arabia and australia. Bob is a native of the bronx, new york, and he still sounds like it. Even though he lives in wilmington, north carolina. You’ll find him in his book at braided threads. Dot com welcome back, bob penna, thank you very much for a little closer, having thank you very much, ma’am ing my pleasure. Thank you. Get for coming to the studio. This braided threads overview overview let’s see what you know we’re i think i think you make the point, there’s just not enough of an appreciation among those of us in the nonprofit sector. Was it snow where we’re from, where we came from, where he came from? Well, i think a lack of knowledge about the east sector is probably throughout the population, but for those of us that work in it, most people never stop to think about where that’ll come from on dh like so much else around us, we americans are notorious for lack of a historical sense. Generally, we just kind of accept that, you know, okay, that mall was built for my convenience right before i was born, forgetting about what was there before being a former got in when they was wanting the same thing with sector people just accept it for what it is today, and you’d only don’t know the real size of the really dramatic economic impact, and i thought that that story ought to be told it actually started a zit. What i thought was a chapter in another work, and it got a cz bigas a book and it was to me a fascinating, fascinating story what’s the thread that you think is most important resiliently through the history resiliency in other words, it has changed. The reason was called braided threads is because it is not one unbroken series of events that took place in sequential owner and all in one line is a metaphor really, for the history on dh the strength i thought both of the sector that there are all these different things that were happening, that when they were woven together, gave us what we have today s so that’s where the title came from. But if you had to pick one thing, i think it’s a story of resiliency is it’s a story of before it was a formal sectors such as it is today, it still wasn’t movement, it was it was a things that people were doing, and it ricocheted off of reacted too, but also impacted events for over two hundred years. You’re clear to point out that it’s not a history of non-profits no it’s, how the non-profit sector evolved because of discreet events in history. Well, that’s, why it’s called overviewing in other words, i didn’t start out with day one and try to give chronologically month by month, year by year. What i did was i looked at what i thought were the most impactful things that happened during or to the history of the sector, and those are things i wrote about now, um, i’m not sure we’re going to go strictly chronological way made the book isn’t actually strictly chronological. They’re places where i have to double back now. When you were on last time, we talked about elizabeth, importantly elizabeth the first. But i know martin luther piques your interest. I thought more pre-tax pre-tax essex. His shame. By about sixty years i particularly thought it was interesting, because if you look at the sector today is largely secular humanist not that there aren’t religious or religiously affiliated organizations in it, but it is not a religious sector. I mean, generally speaking, not that there aren’t religious organizations and affiliations, but it is a very humanistic secular. In some cases, you might sit liberal. I don’t know of movement. And yet it’s roots were distinctly religious. So how did that break happened? Why did that break happened? Where’d it personally, i trace it. Back to a martin luther in the reformation. So you’re how? Because up until then i mean again, and this is not to be focused on just one, you know, ethnicity or religious tradition. This is certainly not to leave anybody else out, but the truth of the matter is that europe was catholic ever since. You know, constantine made it the catholicism of christianity, the official religion of the empire on three thirty, eighty europe was catholic, and then comes along martin luther and he initiates along with few other people of the reformation. And his biggest point was that unlike where the catholic church that it was faith and good works that got you in heaven, martin luther with sola feed a faith alone, you split them and he said, you could do all the good works you want. They’re not going to get you into heaven faces, and he divided it at that point and that crack that infant dismal hairline crack got wider and wider and wider and wider people began to realise overtime. Maybe they never even articulated it but became a sense that there were certain things you do because they’re right not because it’s an extra two points to get into heaven. This tradition had not existed there. Two four and that’s. Why? I peg one of the first first steps towards what we have today in particularly united states with martin luther and now s o and then queen elizabeth. Queen elizabeth was important. Yes, for now. If listeners want to go back, you could go back. Teo. June twenty, sixteen show we talked for about a half an hour. Not all about queen elizabeth, but we talked to fair amount about her more than we’re going to today. But you could go toe twenty martignetti dot com search bob’s last name penna p e n n a. And that june twenty sixteen showed last time he was on. Well, well, appear to you. Okay. Place very quickly. Queen elizabeth, wait time. Okay. Queen elizabeth in sixty, no one issued something. It was called a statute of charitable uses and what she did, wass andi it’s not say this had never happened before, but she codified with the idea that things that were of civic and civil benefit could be appropriate targets of charitable givings, what’s things. Founding of funding of schools self-funding of scholars, the building of bridges, the building of causeways though ransoming of prisoners. All of these things were in this list. So what was she doing there? She was a further secularizing charity. But be she was putting into the charitable pot things that their two four had not been considered charity charity. But charity was always personal to help poor now, she’s moving far away from help the poor bridges, bridges, bridges, cause whillans and ransoming hostages. Or also putting together a sort of a charitable part for the dowry for port maidens. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There was things that today you might call it the social engineering or what? What not. But the point is, it was no longer the idea that charity always was always had to be about helping the poor. So first, martin luther breaks off the idea of these good deeds to having nothing to do with getting into heaven. And then she comes along sixty years later and says, on top of that charitable activity, things that are good for the community and not necessarily what was the thought of his personal charity putting the coin in the beggar’s hand beyond martin luther religion, the evolution of religion i think it has something important, tremendous, particularly united states. We’re probably going to hit religion a bunch of times, but give us an overview of why, why you say tremendous? Well, i would say two reasons first off, because of the impact of puritans, if you wouldn’t mind me mentioning another author, collinwood guards book american nations, he makes that what’s his name colin would guard okay, american nations in yur forward or your introductions in the introduction. Okay? And he makes the point that they were founding culture’s here in the united states, and one of these founding cultures he calls yankee dm basically the puritan culture. And the thing of it is that that had a tremendous impact because their world view they were the on ly one’s coming here amongst the settlers amongst the french, the spanish, the swedes, everyone else who came here, who came with this idea of creating a better society. We’ve all heard that turn the city on the hill. Yeah, john winthrop, in their mayflower compact, was writing this down and was saying that amongst the things we’re going to do is every person has to be responsible for every other person built into the dna of that colony and what it became eventually, in terms of one of the i was so dominant cultures of the united states, was this concept that we have a responsibility, a civic, civil union, responsibility for helping each other. We’re going come backto winthrop, one of the new england puritans, right? We’re gonna take a break, okay? Pursuant they did a round up for you and included a video they’re paper is pursuing e-giving outlook. We took the latest fund-raising reports and boiled them down to what you need to know a round up the takeaways. Plus they have ah, webinar which is archived. You can get both the content paper and the webinar of naturally you know where they are. They’re on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for ah, please. And i guess pursuant also. Now back to how we got here. Revisited revisited. Eso let’s. Jump ahead. We may come back. Like i said, i may not chronological but you mentioned winthrop, new england puritan new england puritans were different than in terms of their there. The concept of charity then the southern it was also okay. The pioneer was also had a lot to do with was the way they set their society of if you think of the south, the first off there was the tidewater southie, maryland, virginia, northern north carolina. That was one society. But then there was what we came to know for better il as the south, eventually the confederacy it’s that will start in south carroll. It was a plantation. Both of these were actually plantation societies, and these plantations were largely self sufficient. So amongst the things they didn’t do, they didn’t worry about having a public school. It was the rich to care of their own children. They had tutors, or perhaps they sent the children away someplace, but they didn’t worry about public schools or didn’t matter, and the poor didn’t matter need education neither white nor black. It didn’t matter. So all the things that we take now as thinking their earmarks of society, their marks of civilization, they didn’t exist down there. Conversely, the first things you did in new england was you where’s, the village green. The church is going to be at one end congregations of course, the school’s going to be the other end. Everybody supported it through their taxes. So right there you have a division. This then later was reflected in terms of things like the pieces of civil society that you and i would consider to be a charitable efforts. They didn’t exist in the south since religion is a thread. That, yes, it’s very important. The congregationalists. In that time, they were the they were the state and the state religion in massachusetts. Just a massachusetts in massachusetts. Rhode island, connecticut. I’ve really askew for went for the south. It became the anglicans. In fact, the anglicans were minority in massachusetts. And what what became a pro? You know what? You don’t see a pilgrim church or a puritan church anymore. They became the congregationalists which were supported by taxes, taxes, taxes, the older. So i mean it’s a complete you know, this is obviously all pre revolution pre cut free constitution, but right in that in that day, we had state religions. Yes, yes. In every every, every colony, some of the northern state, every common. Okay, could not, you know, including eventually. You know, as things got more settled. Down south, the anglicans, the angle of the church of england was the state church. So for example, in virginia had to d institutionalized the anglican church so taxes wouldn’t go to it anymore. But it did have this thread tony of of how religion impacted it. It goes to his whole story, because when the minister is no longer part of the government, so to speak they had to find a new role. You had other sects that came along after the second great awakening amongst them, the baptists, the methodist, they were incredibly influential because they had they would have a little formal theology that others had it was that’s why you would hear a baptist preacher referred to his brother parsons or something, because they weren’t ordained ministers in many cases, and because of that lack of formality number one they could they didn’t church necessarily they get preach under a tree. But secondly, they also had a much more accessible kind of idea the way they approached it. And a lot of what we see today came from specifically the baptist evangelicals and the method like art. What about some of these traditions? That well, for example. The first first nationwide survived it. The first nationwide charities you want call were bible in tract associations, and they were all run by, funded by and pushed by these southern of evangelicals, methodists and baptists. And that became, like the first nationwide charities, the precursors of all the big ones. You know, today they were the first ones who are, like coast to coast. What else is there another tradition that you can? I think i think another tradition i would connect is ah, the activism of many, many groups. So for example, going back to the abolition of slavery, which, of course, started of all places in boston. Boston was the home of the abolitionist movement, and a lot of the people of there were religiously affiliated. But it is also true that during reconstruction and wanting a lot of the quote, charitable work that was done down there amongst the freedman, that much the freed slaves, etcetera, was done by northern methodist and northern baptists. So this this threat duitz involvement. But they weren’t doing it necessarily for the same reasons that going back to, you know, the fourteen hundreds the catholic slash christians were giving money to the poor that was trying to buy their way in heaven, it slowly, completely different. This was this was a our contribution to society. Exactly it was, it was like a second in the nation beyond was a secular act being done by people who for who belong to, ah, a particular denomination, in this case, it’s. Interesting to see the degree of do get things back, you know, go back to the anti war movement during the sixties, how many of those people marching there were protestant ministers? Many of the many of them were methodists, and they’re baptised. This strain never went away. What was, i’m jumping way ahead. Now we’ll come back to the constitution and separation churches, they but ancient greek, greece, rome, egypt what was what was the conception of charity that well, egypt is a vary by empire. Generally speaking, i mean, even in egypt there are their hyre hyre koegler fix have been found and has been translated that roughly say that you know your place in the afterlife, but depending on how you treated people people in this life, so you might say there was that kind of charity in greece in rome, charity was much more what queen elizabeth did. In other words, the idea was particularly in rome, if you want to get ahead and you want to be noticed. So let’s say you’re in the army and you want to move into politics. You were high up in the army, you would spend stuff, you would spend money on things that the public could enjoy, like you would build a public bath. Or perhaps you i would pay for a temple to athena or some small thing of this nature. But the idea was the charity in those days did the poor didn’t count to the poor didn’t exist on anybody’s radar screen. You had totally different perspective of human nature, human. Value. And it was for your own. It was very good for your own good. Everyone over here, right. Career. So writer’s career development. But the whole idea was to just i could spend four hundred bucks. Goto unconference then i would have had to build a temple to athena. Or you could today you could make a big donation to a hospital and put a plaque on the wall with your name. This is twenty martignetti wink. Yeah, i’d rather build a temple, but okay. That’s. Interesting. All right. Thank you. So so let’s go. All right. So now we have our constitution, our bill of rights, things first amendment geever obviously religion. No, no state religion and and separation of church and state. And so how did these factor into these factored in three different ways on the one part of those? The first amendment is the right of assembly, which the british kept an eye on when they were when they were in charge. Well, now you could formally have. You could have the group meetings you could organize again to worry about. Perhaps the king’s soldiers would come and say, break this up while you six. People was gathering here. One of the things that people did was they formed organisations do toqueville. I wrote back in eighteen thirty something when he wrote his famous his famous review of a matter of america based upon his tour that americans were already organizing for virtually everything you name the thought, music, culture of politics, something that they thought of americans were organizing. He hasn’t has a comment that says where in england you will find a a ah a personal great wealth for prominence heading up an effort will where in france you will find the government doing that in america you virtually always find it being done by a citizen’s organization interested. So this could be a total was here, and with the early twenties, you know, first twenty years or so of american independence. I mean, i believe he wrote democracy in america somewhere around eighteen thirty four and these were already his reflections by eighteen twenty the new england area already had over two thousand of these citizen voluntary organisations they were the precursors of today’s non-cash lorts yeah. And how were they structured? What do we know about their organ? It was structured. Like they were structured, sort of, as you know, an association they had by-laws they had officers what they didn’t have was either illegal corporate identity, nor did they have any sort of physical power because the laws that created what we call today a corporation, yeah didn’t exist back then. All right, so we’re doing, like, early to mid eighteen hundreds, are they? Are they doing their own independent fund-raising yes, they were well, they were doing the way calling us, and there were no bodies description that would call it a subscription to put out a subscription players subscription request. Andi, it was today’s. Fund-raising but they called it a subscription, but the key things in those days were threefold number one, they weren’t incorporated, so they didn’t have a legal standing identity, such as people don’t like about citizens united that whole idea that it didn’t exist. Secondly, they did not have any separate fiscal ability to buy to sell to they didn’t. And the third thing was that the officers or whoever was there, the officers were the identity. So if mrs smith or jones quit and or died very often, the operation would fall apart. Because there’s, no way to keep it going, it was very, very crucial for them to eventually get this right to teo. Incorporate. And one of the most key points about this was that they eventually incorporated under the state laws the laws of their home states. Now, who then control them did the state legislature because it charted them or allow them to incorporate control them? Or were they independent? And there was a crucial of a crucial of court case involving dartmouth university, where by the courts found that even if public money went to these entities and even if in fact he’s public entities these entities were incorporated under state law, legislature couldn’t touch. The legislature could not give the money, but the legislature could not tell them in this case, specifically dartmouth university. What to do that independence was crucial because it allowed these organizations to in many, many, many cases, proceed government in various efforts, whether it was schools for the children of freed former slaves, whether it was schools for today, you’ve called a handicap, the death, the blind they would very often create certainly would call them asylums. Today, in my column, orphanages. For children. And there was one in new york city that was specifically for the, shall we say. Children of prostitutes who might’ve been cold bastards back then or what we call illegitimate nobody. Where did these kids go? What did you do with them? And there were there was a privately funded asylum was created just for those people. Those children for the poor as well, but very old housing as well. Arms houses. They yes, very vory, largely funded by these private entities, but very often, particularly in their city near city under mayor de witt clinton high school androids clinton in the bronx. Yeah, right. Lincoln high. He became he was governor at one point. He was not only when he was mayor. He was also head of one of the largest charitable efforts in the city and was even back then. We’re talking early immigrants. They’re on guessing here, trying to remember eighteen twenty something like that. I don’t remember the exact years of his term of office, but the city was already paying what today would call non-profit to run that run the schools for the poor. So in new york state, particularly this tradition of public money going to a not what we today would call a non-profit to provide a legislatively desirable and socially desirable. And think about it. Tony, this is two thousand eighteen year almost two hundred years later, we’re still doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah, i love that around this period, let’s. Take the mid eighteen hundreds of what’s happening in the rest of the country way riese laid our charitable act. Well, slavery and civil war are percolating. And a tremendous number of of effort’s private government effort, a rather private citizen efforts. We’re trying to have a slave trade stopped because constitution originally said that the government could not do anything even in the slave trade, not slavery, but the trade for twenty years. So this effort was going on for a long time and was all be done by citizens in ninety nine percent of up north. Ah, a lot of them either spurred by or inspired by the culture of yankee dome, which was spreading across the country at that point. I mean, think about through from the mohawk valley to the ohio valley way spread from east west. And this culture came with us and the number of people who felt that this was a, uh, scar on our national character increased. And i mean, you’ve heard, you know, the missouri compromise bleeding kansas. We all know what? Well, the things that led up to the civil war, but what was while that was going on, there was this tremendous effort to, among other things, abolish slavery, but at the same time, penal reform. Ah, reform of t end was biggest show in new york. Hamilton, right? Hamilton and burr dueling outlaw dooling also thes air efforts by the various office or he’s working it by these writings organizations. Now, the term non-profit didn’t come along until nineteen. Fifty. Okay, yeah, we’re gonna get well the right to tax exemption. Ok, but by these are a penal reform. What can you think of other examples? What they were doing around this time? Well, was very, very interesting amongst the subscription today we have you know, this there’s everybody’s familiar with the term five a one c three. Well, the three denotes one level of five o one. See, they’re actually twenty nine of them. Well, one of them one of the earliest was what was called mutual society. Sort of mutual aid or mutual. Today there are mutual insurance companies which are non-profit they started back then the ideas you would again have a subscription and if a fire hit your house, this would pay money to you to get you back on your feet. This was another month non-profit effort that didn’t exist, benjamin, for every year where i guess i remember benjamin franklin, but every year i get my subscribers check from yusa, right? A mutual mutual benefit insurance conference company and now and bank, right, ben franklin. Ben franklin is credited with founding amongst the first off non-profit things in united states that volunteer fire court in philadelphia, one of the first libraries, the junior society, these were all today you’d call them non-profit ever efforts that he founded in philadelphia before the revolution. So again, this was but, interestingly enough, not down south, yeah, not down self. Once you started to get to his around the north carolina border, you didn’t see them because of the plantation economy because of the culture, but didn’t have a specific there wasn’t a civic civic sense. We have a community center. It was this my plantation, right? We take care of everything here. This is why two of the most revolution of things that happened down there was thomas jefferson’s, founding of the university of virginia north carolina’s found in one of the first state universities in the country because that was unheard of down there. It was just unheard of. So all of these efforts, as they say, we’re primarily northern. We have about a minute before the break the tax exemption. I feel like this is a good time. When did that? When did that attacks its first tax exemption started way, way, way back. Because you have to ask about which taxes so it’s probably gonna be more than wasn’t religion okay? Wasn’t religion, the religion first exemption religion and then also schools and things, things, things of that nature. So go back to them. Yeah, right. It broadened. But i started with okay, so we tease it together and always do. Thank you very much. Always a tease and i need to take a break. Weinger cps. He coached to you heard him on last. Week’s show the four hundredth very good guy. Check out the firm, then talk to him. Why? I g eat. Of course. No pressure. Tell him what you need that he’ll tell. You, whether weinger cps, can help you, of course. And if they can, then you know that help will extend beyond the numbers. Do the research talk tio get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for tony steak, too, who brings a sunshine to your mission? I’m urging you dive deep and think hard about who in your organ is critical to your mission. The worker bees, the hero worker bees often not seen tell their stories. Let’s. Start telling the behind the scenes stories, usual your digital storytelling capacity, and share this critical work with people who don’t see it. Because these air, not too forward facing people in your organization, your donors, you’re bored, you’re volunteers, even maybe even you know, if you’re big enough, maybe even employees. It’s, you know, this is the inside baseball, which is ironic, but that’s, as far as i could go with a sports metaphor. But i’ve heard of this thing it’s it’s called baseball and has touchdowns so people love this stuff. People who are outside it may be typical an ordinary to you but it’s not to people who don’t live it like you do every day. There’s more on my video at tony martignetti dot com we got to do the live love and were exploding west covina, california nan, you at new york pen sock in new jersey, rehoboth beach, delaware. Oh, i was in. I was in. Bethany had a very nice week. Very close to rehoboth. Live love, live love, delaware, new jersey. We got more in new york, but manual and california, tampa, florida west, long beach, new jersey looking new jersey exploding. Nan you at new york. Salt lake city, utah, new york, new york, multiple brooklyn, new york is here. New bern, north carolina is here. Live love to each of you, each of you on going abroad. Look, there’s! A whole page of going abroad. My god, it’s! Unbelievable! Manchester a sincere own paraguay ottawa. Tashkent, uzbekistan. Munich, germany. Iran, mexico city, mexico, santa catarina two new in guatemala, sudan we have a listener in sudan. We’ll show for the center in pakistan, so you know asia, oh, my goodness, live love, teo each of our live listeners love goes out thank you so much, and the podcast pleasantries to our over thirteen thousand. Now i’m pretty comfortable saying thirteen thousand, you know, sometimes some shows don’t quite reach that threshold, but enough have that i’m declaring it so podcast pleasantry store over thirteen thousand listeners you may be you may you may be listening six hours in a row. I don’t know, however you bunch them up pleasantries to you, thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country, like claire meyerhoff said last week, and as you’ve heard me say, terrestrial radio is going nowhere. It may not be blowing up like digital, but it will always be with us, so the affections go out to our am and fm listeners and stations across the country. Bob pen is with me. His new book is braided threads a historical overview of the american non-profit sector just get the book because, you know, we can’t do it justice. Of course, you’re interested in how our sector, our community evolved to what it is. Now get the book, you know, we’re hitting some threads, some braided threads, if you will, but you want the full story, you know, even, you know, bob mentioned something like oh, yeah, the dartmouth case, you know, i can’t remember it all just by the thing for pizza. All right, where were we see now i’ve ranted about bees and sunshine and all this live love, where were we? Well, and be me. Now tell me what you also screwed up the whole thing about how about your baseball? But that’s, another thing? Well, you have baseball doesn’t have touchdowns anyway, this donorsearch we’re talking about sex, we’re talking about taxes and tax exemption on that’s what you would ask about that. Thank you. So it started. Religion was the first one. Well, what period are we talking about now? We’re going going back to probably the sixteen hundreds of knows the point of matter-ness what taxes? Alright, what tax? Federal government levied very, very few texas before. That the state’s levy not that many taxes most taxes were on property and very early on churches were exempted from paying those taxes. Now it wasn’t just the church building. It also became the the parsonage where the minister lived. Then if there was a section of the building library, perhaps, then schools obviously we’re not text be they private or be the public clearly in public government is going to tax itself so public institutions like public school would never you were never text, but the idea was that it is the exemption list grew bigger and bigger new york state was obviously this was going on in all states, i happen to have a quite an extensive county in the book of how the new york state list just kept getting broader and broader and broader and broader. At one point, it was interesting because the law was changed to allow organisations that included in their charter or their mission. The enhancement of the minds of young people are something that’s. How the why, god and because the y had tried to get a tax exemption had gone to court, they’ve been turned down, they had to pay the tax bill, but everybody thought, you know why should be enough in this. So why is very interesting to er in the world wars? Well, that’s right in the book, right? That they were also involved. Yeah, this is the book. I don’t know, but what i’m saying is that the y was not really was not mentioned or organizations like yeah, why now you mention new york state? Yes, i love this one thing i want to read for this from seventeen, ninety nine new york state. You you cite new york state as sort of representative represent what was happening around them, what they’re worth, barry issues, but there’s very representative, this is an act for the assessment and collection of taxes new york state seventeen ninety nine excerpt. I won’t be the whole thing, of course, no house or land belonging to any church or place of public worship or any personal property belonging to any ordained minister of the gospel, nor any college or incorporated academy, nor any schoolhouse, courthouse, jail, arms house or property belonging to any incorporated library shall be taxed by virtue of this act, right? And that that was just kept going, as i said at one point, they amend it to include i figure the specific wording was something about the betterment of the minds of young men and women, because there was the y m c a, and the y w, c young, you know, young man’s and young ones christian association. So the law was changed. And basically what the courts said was that the’s operations were doing good. There were doing good things, and with beneficial to society and therefore society it was in society’s interest, but also as just the smart thing to do. We are going to do our bit by supporting them through the extent that we do so bye, alleviating them from the tax burden they were still not call non-profits because that concept him way later, but these organizations thes voluntary or for a long time was called the voluntary sector. The’s oh, yes, that was the name of these organizations increasingly became tax free. What we know today as thie people call them non-profits i’ll do this relatively quickly. One of the last revenue acts of the eighteen hundreds included this idea that these kinds of organizations could be should be exempted from federal taxes that particular revenue actors found unconstitutional. However, when things started to fall into place and you remember it was thie sixteenth amendment that made the income tax legal in the united states when that happened, the recognition that these organizations should be exempt was codified, and it had to be three things. Number one, it had to be incorporated as a non-profit what does that mean? It doesn’t mean they can’t make a profit that can make money know what it means. Is that what any excess extra it has to go back in? Well, it has to go back. And they can. This were contemporaneous with the sixteenth amendment. It was well shortly following them. But what is it? Non-profit means that rather mean doesn’t mean it can’t make money. No, that doesn’t that’s not what i mean what it means. They can’t take that profit and distributed to partners distributed to stockholders. Distribute it has to go back into the pot. That’s number one. The second thing is that no one of its activities can make money for any of the officers. Right? And the third, the third idea. Oh, is that the well, roll sunday, the ideas non-profit none distribute torrey and doing some sort of civic good and so very often was charitable and there was a charitable, educational and the list got, you know, bigger now fairly dilemmas in erry i like that word helium really, really lousy grayce let me share that’s what the reason? Every believe believe that it’s, but maybe you’re right a check, maybe. Alright, remember, i come from the bronx, so i’m different pronunciation. Um, well, you were wrong about you around baseball to sew our from president tax abilities. Alt-right president taxco comes from nineteen fifty four that was the first place where they laid out what we have today, this five oh, one c category and where the general exemption from originally, the idea was that if these organizations made money, they didn’t have to pay a corporate income tax on it. Then it became not legally, but in terms of practice that they are basically free from almost all taxes other than things like excise taxes or taxes on gasoline or something that you pay is part of a bill, which is why the local men’s association will go to a restaurant. And then have the banquet, and they give the the the owner hears my tax free by tax free number, and they won’t have to pay sales tax on the restaurant. Yeah. Okay. So that’s where all that came from, but it was in terms of its codification. Although the roots go back to the sixteen hundreds, codification goes back to nineteen. Fifty four. Okay. Is that the sixteenth amendment was at the sixteenth amendment? Was nineteen. Thirteen that’s? What? Allowed the ink allowed, permitted in income to federal income tax. Right. Okay. Okay. Let’s, uh, were world war i? We saw an expansion. Uh, yes, yes. What? Why? Why? Because because we really well, but because there was no functional way for the government to step in. One of the more fascinating things about it was that the human we’ve been told by the why? The why was the first organization two do what you think in terms like the red cross? You know, pow pow camps. You’re checking on status bringing, you know, president’s part. Nobody did that government sure affected neither the union or the confederate government. It was the why the y m c a that first started this. Bring this service to both sides to the confederates and northern. So they were they were in buy-in confederate pow camps ministering, so to speak, to union prisoners and vice versa. You say that the white was the first large scale service corps. Really? You could say that you you you can’t say that the other s o comes along world will once there was a knee for this but nobody else to do it. Okay, we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us you say you need more revenue. Have i heard rumors to that effect? Start your campaign. Talk to the businesses near you and those that are supporting you. Ask if those business people will consider switching their credit card processing to tell us. Explain to them that you will earn fifty percent of the fees that tell us gets you get half that’s the long stream of passive recurring revenue for your non-profit you’re voluntary organisation, check out the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s now back to bob penna the way the y y m c a initially or was and why it was there right now while there’s two there’s one. I am cia, young men’s, christian association and the young women’s which came first. William. Okay, i think so. First, large scale service corps and well, what happened was this. You know, there was when world war one started and there was a need when the americans got involved, when there was a need to again bring services to this army that was being raised, whether it was, you know, outside of fort dix or whether it was, you know, eventually when the ghetto got, of course, the the other side across the pond. Allied expeditionary forces, right? American expeditionary. The whole idea was somebody had to do the same sort of thing. And why was the first one to step in a red cross, eventually join the salvation army, eventually joined. But all of this was being done privately. Meantime, both prior to america’s entry into the war and after it was a tremendous amount of refugee. If you will victims victims, relief. I mean, you know, war is terrible. Whatever ward is and there’s always collateral damage, the people who were displaced, the homes of the destroyed well during war governments don’t stop to worry. About taking care of that, they move on, they want it, they have a war to try to win. So who took care of those people? The refugee problem was tremendous. Belgium became one of the worst sites of it because when the germans invaded belgium, the allies said, well, you have to feed the belgians because most of the belgians of food came from outside. German said, no, we’re not going to be bother doing that were, you know, feeding our trip. You want to give them food, you give them food? Well, it was a relief effort that began in the united states that started working to bring food to belgium. But it was not government. It was all private. It was all voluntary was a what you today with called non-profit before our eyes. Actual pictures, one of the few pictures that are in the book before the war, before the u s got involved in the war when we’re supposed to be officially neutral. Yes, there were organizations raising money for the poor and the suffering and the widows in belgium and france. And but there were also organizations doing the same thing directing money to the german empire, the austria hungarian empire on turkey because we were officially neutral. So there are actually a couple of pictures in the book. I wouldn’t have shaved more pictures, by the way. Well, i like, well, i’m sorry next-gen next book, more pictures, but the whole idea was this entire effort was being done privately after the war massive relief effort run by herbert hoover, most of it not all of it. At that point, the u s government was committing money, but a great deal of it, you know? I don’t know proportion sixty percent maybe was well private today’s uso was formed by a collection of a bunch of the collaboration of a bunch of the organization’s yesterday the y m y w c a regular yeah, that’s, today’s, united service organised, right? Right. And that’s where that it was a coalition that was found was one with first ever like that on the first ever efforts. I mean, there are all sorts of things that happened back then that we we today, for example, you’ve heard of united way everybody knows united way, you know, we’re united what came from i don’t community chest community. Chest and you know it today. Most people know community chess is a sort of a space in the car on the reporter community chest wass local fund-raising specifically for disaster, personal tragedy, private relief. So if you lost your job or the factory burned down and five people lost, the job community chest was was was the entity in each individual community that would they would go to for relief? I mean, maybe if they belong to a particular denomination in the church might help him out as well, you know, temple or, you know, there’s a lot of that. I mean both and there’s a whole section in there on both jewish and catholic specific ah, contributions to what we know today as the american non-profit sector and that that’s interesting reading on on its own. But this isn’t to say the churches were involved, but every community there was no public relief. There was no public welfare. And so if dad died or fell off the roof and broke his leg and couldn’t work, there was no unemployment insurance. It was the worker’s comp people. Very often they went to community chest. What wound up happening was one of the transformative events was, we’ll make coal cooperative fund-raising if everybody fund-raising for fund-raising fund-raising whatever the look, the past tense of that is by themselves, you want with competing appeals and the banging into each other. Well, it actually started to believe it was a cleveland was one of the first ones i know there was one in denver, there was one in detroit, it was one i believe was cleveland. Was this around the is this also the hoover administration non-profits complain where we’re basically testified before congress were basically running over each stepping over each other, trying to trying to help? Oh, yeah, we’ll also show it was at the great depression or no, yes, yes, i know now that was baby. What you’re talking about was world war two upleaf stepping on each other in front of me. All right, that was world war to know what happened was when the when the depression hit sort of the thought was that this community chest step up in community chest tried they would have instead of one annual drive, they’re having to annual drives, they try three, but the problem is we all know was much bigger than anybody could have completed for scene and their efforts were just not up to the fact that the entire economy crashed, which is why government had to get in that well, it was obviously fdr, fdr important appointed harry hopkins to run the relief effort. Harry hopkins thought that it really should be local government that was doing this local governments setting off for the side. They’re very happy not to be involved. So when harry hopkins did was he said, ok, we’re gonna do this and it’s gonna be federal money, but none of the money can go to what today would call non-profits they got completely cut out. That was not right. That was not to punish that i’m no, that was to encourage that was the force, the state’s unwilling states and that had not taken on public welfare right to do it or we do it give the money to the state, but we federal money won’t go to thes community chest exactly, right? They’re trying to force the hand and unwilling recalcitrant states and localities and localities. But but, yes, that’s and that was hopkins idea. Of course. Now what did the non-profits do i mean, this kind of left them out in the cold? Now, you also have to realize that at this point we were talking about community chest, but this was one. This is not to say that the arts efforts weren’t going on, and people were founding zoos and botanical gardens, and a lot of this was originally founded by private garden clubs or a zoological society, but the nation was in crisis and relief. I was always from the charitable sector, which is why i was cold, and now they couldn’t do what anymore krauz was too big a job and be the federal money couldn’t go to them, have you? You have no soul, we invent themselves. I mean, i said us made early on what was the theme? I keep seeing resiliency and one of the things that they’re one of the earliest tests of this resiliency was after the depression because basically the feds said you can’t have anyone for you no more money for you, yeah, yeah, so say little about the jewish contribution. Tio what we know, i think this is all really fascinating. There’s a book believe guys named wrote it. Was cahill cal in-kind how taylor count it’s called the gifts of the jews the gift of the jews book is probably twenty years old, this point, but he makes the point that one of the biggest contributions that the jewish culture the jewish religion made to us here in the united states was, in fact cultural, cultural. It had to do with how human beings reviewed when the jewish immigration here started and watch. Think about where these people come from. They were either, you know, they were persecuted in czarist russia. They were persecuted in poland, which was part of czarist russia. They were kicked out of spain. I mean, you know, a thousand years of this, they had an outsider perspective nobody else had, and they brought that here with them. And when they got involved in charity and they were the ones they were the biggest analyze of the black civil rights movement, because their idea that nobody should be an outsider was central to them. And they brought that, too, that you think about today’s non-profit space. We are concerned about the handicapped. We’re concerned about all sorts of groups that you might call marginalizes. Semi marginalized and thiss was antithetical to the jewish world view. So to me, whereas a lot of these other charities were taken care of their own. So, for example, there was the irish working in such and such, but you had to be irish. The jew said, no, inclusive, inclusive. We’re gonna take our last break. Okay, text to give. Welcome them to non-profit radio by checking them out, please. Mobile donations made easy, it’s, simple, affordable, secure. If your donor’s consent a text that can make a donation, you get more revenue because it’s giving made easy text. Npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine and that will get you info on text to give and that’s also the way to claim your special listener offer npr, too, for for foreign. Nine, nine nine. We’ve got about six more minutes for how we got here. We visited. Excellent. Thank you. The jewish tradition. I just i cannot emphasize that enough, because i mean, truly today if you look at the whole core of the non-profit mission, it is inclusivity. And i personally feel that without the incredible jewish influence that particularly here in new york and new york became kind of like one of those centers of the non-profit war with still is i cannot emphasize enough how strongly i believe that that that this world view yeah, that thread truly, truly helped imprint of what we have today. You got to get the book because there’s some things were not going to be a lot of the great depression. Kennedy’s, new frontier. And then johnson, johnson as and jesus or against four war on poverty way have what? Three, four minutes? Five. Okay, well, i want to talk about the future too. Okay? Then i’ll do. So just do johnson. Johnson set us on the road that we’re on the war on poverty, right? Warren? Right? The great society war on poverty. We are today farther down that road and that road is been fancied up. There are, you know, they’re curbs where maybe it didn’t. Used to be curbs there’s, a newer pavement, nicer pavement and original, but it is the exact same road. What johnson did was, he said, we’re going to take federal money and we’re going to change poverty. We’re gonna eradicate whatever his goal was, but it wound up that it wasn’t the government that was doing it. It was government money going to community action agencies and two non-profits now we don’t time now to go to talk about what happened to non-profits during the fifties between world war two and way, just get the book and, well, i have the book. Oh, you mean elation gets into the thirteen thirteen thousand we’re joining this mission, i hope to god you have a copy, then that’s a different story, but the whole point was that it was hard to get for me to get one lbj lbj set us on the road that we’re on, we’re on now and my feet feeling, and maybe there are people in this sector would argue, you know, this is my theory is that basically things have not really changed in direction, they’ve changed in degree. Now the nonprofit sector is not just the partner of government there’s, it’s it’s dependent upon the government. I mean, look what happened to the sector during the depression. It wasn’t the individual stop giving individuals even during the worst of the great recession we’re giving. Corporal was down the corporate snot that big. It was government money. The sector today is very, very reliant on. So again, johnson set us on the road that run now, and we are just farther down it and very much deeper into it. I want to look, look, look forward. You cite generational change too, and technology change as our biggest lorts opportunity, opportunities and challenges. I think i think two of the two of the three biggest things because we end the book on what’s happening in the future. That’s the last of the west. Thirty. Twenty five percent of the book, i think that’s the three biggest things that are impacting the sector and sectors largely unaware of it is number one the growth we’re adding fifty thousand a year in nineteen, ninety, there were a couple of hundred thousand non-profits in united states today there was a startling chart in the book of the pictures that was the charge. You know i have a dream that my son dramatic rise now there’s over one point seven. Six million, actually, nobody as is less to solomon who’s, one of the sages of the of the of the sector says, but nobody really knows how many there are. And it’s because there’s no registration, there’s reporting different story so the growth thiss can’t just go on fifty thousand new ones a year, even given three to four percent you know, dwindling and going away talk about technology and second missions technology you talked before about making online donations easy that is changing the paradigm between donors and organizations such as we’ve never seen before. You and i are oven oven age when we still remember ah, march of dimes going door to door. All right, that is all the canisters canisters, but think about it now we’re making so easy for online or text, but we’re also making very easy to give uninformed donations because it’s impulse it’s on the second and right there in your finger, the third thing is the generational change we’re already seeing the statisticians and the demographic demographer has already seen a great great great change in terms of values and behavior, almost the millennials and us, but not just us also the generation right behind us. So these three things churning bart have the power to totally change the non-profit sector as we know it over the course of the next fifteen years and all i’m saying is we as a sector should be aware of these things and be prepared for what could happen and maybe try to steer the ship instead of just being a cork bobbing along where the tides and the winds take us where they want. Just get the book for god’s sake, bob pender braided threads a historical overview of the american non-profit sector you’ll find bob and his book at braided threads dot com thank you very much, bob. Thank you. Valuable book. Just it’s. Well, it’s it’s it’s, amazon is bond’s amglobal dot com that’s where i would send everybody there in-kind braided threads dot com all right, wrap it up. Well, you’re done. I’m done next week. Peter panepento returns with his co author for your media relations strategy. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony. Martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools, small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com bye, tell us credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony that m a slash tony tell us on by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Bob and i were just talking about that. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz, is a line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent now that you know your history, go out and be going. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving nothing. Cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every tuesday at line to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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