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Nonprofit Radio for October 19, 2018: Your Tech RFPs & Donor Advised Funds

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Drew McManus & Ceci Dadisman: Your Tech RFPs
Two tech providers from #18NTC reveal what they wish you knew about crafting your proposal solicitations. Plus a few secrets their colleagues wish they wouldn’t reveal. They’re Drew McManus, principal of Venture Industries Online and Ceci Dadisman from Form.

 

 

Gene Takagi: Donor Advised Funds
Gene TakagiGene Takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press. It’s gifts for nonprofits, why all the fuss? We’ll find out. Gene is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law firm.

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with sheer adoni sis, if i saw that you missed today’s, show your tech r f p s to tech providers from eighteen ntc reveal what they wish you knew about crafting your proposal solicitations plus a few secrets their colleagues wish they wouldn’t reveal. They’re drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and sissy dad baizman from form and donor advised funds jean takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press it’s gets for non-profits where all the fuss we’ll find out. Gina’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm tony take two a driving rant responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wender cps guarding you beyond the numbers gregor cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four four, nine, nine, nine here are drew mcmanus and cc data zeman from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference we are in the convention center in new orleans, nola, louisiana, and we’re kicking off our coverage with this interview. This interview, like all, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profit i’m very pleased to welcome for our kickoff interview. Drew mcmanus and cc dahna sametz drew is principal of venture industries online and cc is digital marketing manager four for money and your seminar topic is everything tech providers wish you knew about reading an r f p plus the stuff you want they want, plus the stuff they want to keep secret. All right, let’s hope that the conversation is shorter than the title. Welcome well thinking. Well, you’re very welcome, let’s start off cc i love you. I don’t know, i don’t know if viewers of the video are not gonna be able to see your pendant, so show that off. No, all that off. Put that on the mission in camp. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Very striking. Thank you. Why do we need this topic ? What’s what ? What’s not going right with peace ? Well, i think it a very basic level as non-profits we all need to do our peas at one point or another. Right ? And sometimes they can be a source of a little bit of trepidation for, to write and to sort of put out there to vendors. And we felt that this was a very timely topic to talk about to help ease people’s minds a little bit about that. And really give them some deeper information into the r f p process. Yeah, okay. Drew there’s, there’s trepidation people people are fearing this this process, right as a web developer, we get extremes there’s either trepidation where people don’t know how to approach it because they don’t feel comfortable with how to evaluate proposals. They don’t know what to ask for. They just don’t know how to kick the process off or on the other side of that. They have this extensive laundry list of things they think they want without really knowing even what they can can’t ask for or what i knew. Platforms and options are available. The r f p process really should be more involved with learning what you have and what can be. Okay, so that’s, what we’re gonna be talking about what you have and what can be so both of you are on the receiving end of a piece. Is that right ? From from non-profits currently, although i’ve spent most of my career working full time at non-profit organizations and as a consultant working on behalf of the non-profit for these kind of things. So that’s sort of how we’re approaching this drew is definitely on the vendor side, but my experiences is farm or on the non-profit side. Okay. Okay. So, let’s, stay with u c c your description promised tio pull back the curtain. What ? Pull back the curtain of how tech providers are crafting their proposals. Okay, with you right now, he’s. The current can you ? Uh, yeah, yeah. I mean, i could talk a little about what’s behind this curtain. Yeah, i can talk about it a little bit from the from the non-profit side in creating the r f p you know, our peace can be a really big project, right ? They could be something has looked at that is that is very involved because you want to make sure that what you’re putting out there is is true to the project that you’re looking toa have completed, and you want to make sure all the right information is in there so that you get the right vendors because ultimately you want a good vendor experience. You had a good working experience and we want attracting the right exactly you want you want the right vendors toe look at that project and won a bid on it, and ultimately you want to find the best vendor for your particular organization on dso in this session, you know, we’ll talk a lot about, you know, really what needs to go in that r f p from the non-profit standpoint, it only in the session we’re going to sharing here, too, right here yet. Zoho back on non-profit radio listeners, i don’t know we’re going to be doing out here too, right ? Right now we are ok, we are right. So one of the big things that we’ll talk about from the non-profit standpoint is at a very basic level just being honest about what you need from this project to put into the r f p, you know, bring all of your assets together, bring your team together before you even start writing the r f p to, you know, figure out what you really want let’s say it is, you know, a website project. You know what ? You really want this website to do what you want, tohave it, what you want to have contained in it. You know what your delivery bals are, what type of conversions you’re looking at so that you can start the process out where everything is sort of laid out on the table before you’re even starting to write the r f p and then as you go through the r f p process, making sure that all of those things are in there so that you know it’s full disclosure for the vendors, okay, what i what should we have in place before we start typing words into r r r f what does stick with you ? Ok, the big things to have in place are number one, the team that is going to be working on this project and have a point person assigned. For the project and that’s a really big thing, making sure that there is somebody responsible for communicating with the vendors about the project, who, you know is going to make the time and the energy commitment to do that, and also gathering together all of the information that needs to go in the website, whether that’s text or photos, multimedia files, whatever that might be bringing all of getting all of that together because ultimately your vendor will need that you’ll have to give it to them eventually, so might as well do it right off the bat, and then you need to gather together all of your other sort of software providers. You know, any other piece of tech that might touch that website ? So if you have, you know, a fund-raising cr m ifyou’re in arts and culture organization, and you’re selling tickets to shows, you know that that software is well, you know, your email marketing software, whatever those things are that need to interact with that website in some way getting all of those things together. Okay ? It’s, time for a break pursuant they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and good practices to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is our it’s on the listener landing page. You know where to find that it’s tony dot m a slash pursuing the capital p for please now back to your tech or f p’s drew let’s, go to you. Who should be the point person ? Who’s the right person were now our listeners small and midsize non-profits so i’m gonna assume there is no director. Ok, correct. We should be in charge of this process. Dede was sisi was describing. I knew that was gonna happen that way. Have a dd coming later. I’ll answer to it. It’s not here. Now, it’s actually, cee cee cee is with us who should be in charge for most organizations is going to be the marketing director or the vp of marketing that’s typically the person who ends up becoming the point person because they’re going to be the gatekeeper for most of the content architecture that sisi was talking about. And so that’s usually a decent person to be able to be the point to contact oh, and process the art piece that are going to come in, you know, i’m one year earlier questions you had toss to see see about, you know, the things that we’re looking, i didn’t metoo i’m not gonna look at me, i’m gonna beat it up. Now i gotta beat it up now, so i focus on myself, okay ? On my my mistakes. I know it’s just but being able to actually educate non-profits into the things that they need to realize before they even start soliciting our peace and won the big ones is that that tech provider world, especially web development, is in a massive state of flux. Right now, there are really two large competing schools of how to go about being a service provider, which there’s the traditional old school model of you. Give us the specs, we build this for you, and then it’s yours. Hand it over, enjoy it. Yeah, and then there’s mohr of the annual license fee model. There are one ofthese for things like design and development programming, that kind of stuff. But then there’s an ongoing relationship that provides training support. I like to call it attrition insurance because you’re going in insurance, attrition, insurance, you’re going to have people who are going to turn over, and you need whoever comes in to be able to talk to someone who has some kind of institutional knowledge about that online presence, at least and that’s really not even just a non-profit but in the tech sector, especially that’s been around for years now, it’s almost expected oh, and it’s still a new concept to non-profits and so even understanding when they start soliciting are of peace, they could get some very radically different ideas coming in, and if they’re not prepared for it, you might out of hand, just toss something else that could actually be your better solution. Do latto on doing a lot of nodding ? Yeah, yeah, i mean exactly what drew just said about non-profits are used to this in terms of websites, the subscription model type of thought where, you know, you might pay a maintenance fee, monthly or yearly two, your web developer but really, i think for this particular industry, that is the way to go because there is so much turnover in terms of staff and knowing that you have someone there at all times to, you know, sort of help out, you know, god forbid something breaks or, you know, maybe you just have a question that there is somebody there at all times that can really take care of that. This industry, maybe more than others, should be using that sort of dahna i’m surprised to hear that non-profits air not acquainted with this attrition problem, i mean, they have it in having a crime, i mean, certainly in fund-raising where i mostly you’re saying that they’re not factoring that into this process, exactly, exactly there not really thinking about how that relates to their web presence and also having, you know, a monthly maintenance contract or yearly can be very helpful, even just when you need a little thing fixed or changed usually non-profits will go out and you don’t try to find, you know, a one off kind of developer project or, you know, hyre a freelancer to do something and and once you have, you know, all of these different people that are going in there and touching your website at any one time, ultimately that’s sort of going to dilute the integrity of the website so it’s best to just be able to keep with one person who really knows it in it. Out now, i highlighted. Beautiful necklace pendant. I want to highlight drew’s vest, very dapper vest and pocket square. Now, i am not to be outdone. Pocket squares, but yeah, exactly. Undo that. Drew is the king of the waistcoat. He has a warrior he’s, a waistcoat warrior hashtag waistcoat warrior he’s got a waistcoat for every occasion, and he looks damn good in them. Thank you very much for your marriage. You know each other. You know, it’s outside, outside the professional realm way. Do we’ve been friends for a very long time. And actually, one of the first ways that we met was doing a session. You contacted me to a website session. But when c z was a marketing director at the palm beach opera, they became client of mine, and they’re still clients. Oh, and we worked together on a number of sessions and mostly in performing arts based conferences. But yeah, way. Have a good report. Okay, show’s. Awesome. I love that this is a great energy. Great five kickoff kick off our coverage of auntie. Easy. Okay, drew let’s, stay with you. Something else that sisi mentioned next in the sequence. Gathering the right information that belongs as a part of this or ft flush out out more that’s the perfect question to ask yeah, number question number eight is it took me a while, we’ll slow out of the gate. Oh, it’s, just a number eight it’s one the best ones, because that’s also one of most difficult, because when organizations look at their content, i mean, they look at the stuff that they’re familiar with and what they know. So the actual copy, the media co-branding elements and that’s something that they tend to do fine with but where we encounter groups, having the most trouble is when they have to actually get all that information from point a to point b, meaning that let’s say they have a system built on julia or even wordpress, which is what we use in its open source. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy to extract the data depending on how that web site was originally built previously. And if in order to say what kind of data we’re talking about trying to get out, it could be anything from more complex information like customer data or event information there an event driven organization if they sell tickets. There’s all kinds of event. Meta, which are little bits of data, like the starting time, the location to find these terms. Because we have jargon. Jail on non-profit mirriam would hate to see you behind bars, but you live served time. You have. Not on this show. I don’t allow it. So you described it. You defined it quickly. Okay, so, yeah, little bits of data that right ? And so that they don’t know that that getting that from point a to point b isn’t a simple as doing, like a simple export. There’s no standardized format for something like a vent data. Even though google and apple have their own standards, it only covers a few bits of metal, so being able to move that might actually require a substantial amount of time and effort that they had no idea it was needed. But worse didn’t budget for, and that could sometimes be the most expensive element dahna project outside of something like developing an ap i connection to something like sales force or cr m or any kind of outside donor-centric connection between your data and some other outside latto yep, it’s the language that allows to different platforms to be able to talk to each other in the same language as opposed to having, you know, something in german trying to talk to someone in russian. Okay, now, how does it now ? I made you tigress thought your fault. How ? Does this all relate back to what belongs in our f and that’s ? Just it ? Those are the things that providers in my position usually don’t tell clients in advance because they well, do they even know i mean at the art of the stage ? Well, that’s just it most non-profits don’t they didn’t ask for that. But the provider doing replying to the r f p at that stage probably doesn’t even know that level of detail, do they ? They should, and they should be asking, and not every provider does that this goes into the heart of this stuff they don’t want you to know about the process is going to be iterated we’re not not just foisting an art of pee on a bunch of vendors, and then they return it within within this by the specified deadline. But there’s a there’s a back and forth there’s a community there. This conversation there should be questioning that’s a beautiful way to put it and that’s one of things that were going to be talking about is the r f in the traditional sense that we’re talking about way are is that the old school ? Throw out the laundry list of things that you want and get it back is not probably going to be in your best interest. We’re going to be talking about some alternative methods, which will be including project evaluations. We are talking about project evaluation, and a project evaluation is different than our pee. In that you will usually pay someone a small fee, a developer, aura potential provider to look at all of this stuff for you, and then be able to give you a legitimate fair estimate of what it cost will be. Okay, so that that’s sort of. Leading into your r f or is it in place of it could go in both one of the options is a migration where i’m sorry, ah, hybrid model where that can then let them build a detailed, accurate r f or they can use that as just the basis of being able to move forward after they’ve looked at a couple of groups to narrow down to a shortlist based on reputation and previous work. Ok, and this can only be good, really, for the non-profits because in this process, you get to know the developers who are responding to this r f p and, you know, that can help you choose what the right relationship might be, you know, rather than just saying, oh, well, these people look great, and there are f p submission looks great, but you don’t really know them. Yeah, all right, so we’re holding hands before we sleep together. Exactly. Get way. Get going. We’re going on a few dates before we sleep together. Okay, look on dating apps. A great wayto use that analogy. That’s. One of the things we have in the session that we’re talking about here now. Thank you. Is that if you wanted to go online and find someone to date and you just have a laundry list that’s called tinder ? If you actually want to find someone that you want to have a relationship with that’s that’s an entirely different story and shoot it might be in harmony, i would like to know the harmony, harmony, scientific that’s, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Profiles are more detailed, nothing no yeah, that i know from experience. I’ve heard. I’m happily married on dh, not on any any dating site. In fact, i’m happily married has nothing to do with other dating sites. That’s. True, i don’t know. I don’t see a ring, you know, you’re right, i don’t know. My wife has what she’s here, but we don’t wear rings right on. But, yes, i see your true oh, she’s on she’s, yes, okay, showing you just take that truth, okay ? So what was that ? Aggression ? Okay, all right, so so we’re dating, all right ? So how do we find the people who the potential vendors who could be valuable to us either for this project evaluation or for our f p how do we know where to send this thing ? We’re jumping around a bit, but listeners are accustomed to that that’s a good question, how do how do we know that’s actually really good question, and i know that, and i know that drew will have some thoughts, too, but if your friend on for non-profit that doesn’t really have a lot of experience in doing this kind of thing. I think the first thing to do is to reach out to colleagues for other organisms from other organizations who have recently been through a website, redesign or development project, or maybe you don’t even know them, but maybe it’s a non-profit or another organization that has a website that you like, reach out to them and see who did it see with their experience with and then also utilizing any sort of membership organizations or associations that you might be involved in convene helpful like a f p or a or p r s a and ten more any of those only, like number three any of those. And only after i prompted you. All right, let me sample warning would have been on my list. Trust me. Hyre where ? Seven it’s not there’s, no value. Nobody’s listening that yes, people listen. So all right, so i think that would be the first laurel referral to someone who did something you like or from among your or from among your professional network, including professional associations. Yeah. Putting. And i think putting it out there that you are looking for someone is really good as well. Even just on your social media on your linked in that hay, whether it’s personal or professional or both. Hey, we are looking to redo our website. Does anybody have any ? You know, recommendations, people you love people you worked with that you don’t love you no stairway from this kind of thing. Okay ? Do you have more ? That that’s a great way to go about it. I would say when you go the social media route or a public rout beep prepared for the onslaught. Yes, because there will be plenty of people who are in business development, we’re going to look for those sort of things reach out to you. The only thing i’ve really add to that is looking at other sites that you like as a starting point. You look at that that face is it pretty ? Do i like it ? Do i enjoy how it worked as faras the interaction and the user interface ? And if there’s, ah, website credit at the bottom, which not all sites do, but if there is, then start to reach out to those organizations. But most importantly, when you go to their websites, you want to try to find someone that has as much information about process as in the results because it’s the process that what we’ve been talking about here that really develops that relationship, that build a successful lives, you’re because you’re successful outcome ? Yeah, absolutely. Ok. Yes. You don’t want to just focus well said you want to focus on how great the site looks. It works. But was was it held to get here ? May not be worth it. It may not have been worth it. Is it a mistake to send out a dozen or of peas. I mean, is there an optimal like there ? Max, i don’t need. I don’t want to hear from fifteen vendors. I can’t r or just can’t process that much. Cc what’s. Your advice around how many descent ? I think that i don’t think that it’s a bad thing to get a lot back, i think in this kind of situation, because there aren’t there aren’t a ton, ton ton of developers that work with non-profits to start out with, you know, with some other types of businesses where you might get an onslaught of r f piece from web developers non-profits air a little bit lucky in that, you know, it’s going to be a relatively smaller number just to start out with, but i do think that it’s better to sort of see what your options are and that’s an important part of this process because what i find is a lot of non-profits when they’re doing a website project, they may be stuck, quote unquote stuck with a certain solution because they didn’t know what their other options were, and they were they were working with a developer aura developer was recommended to them that is saying, you know, this is the way that you need to do x, y and z and not that that’s a bad way, inherently, but maybe not the best way for that particular organization, but they just went with it because they didn’t know what there are other options were. So i’m more of the mind that the more sort of information that you have and it is it is a pretty good thing. Okay, so you don’t want to put our backs on it. Andi it’s likely to be a small number anywhere you’re saying, because right, and you’re going to sort of tear those things down. So once you get the first group of them, then you’re immediately going to be able to see, okay, yeah, these were not interested in so here’s, my smaller core group that we’re really going to look at, you know, and then from there, okay. We still have a few minutes left together, drew let’s talk about something that’s related to this development versus legacy costs. How does that relate to this sort of process and what listeners need to know about development versus legacy cost everything they don’t know, which is everything, and it is the biggest issue moving forward for non-profits is if you’re a non-profit like a performing arts organization, they already have a really good idea of what legacy cost is with labour expenses because their labor intensive organizations there’s no way to avoid that. Websites and technology platforms in general are starting to become mohr like that there’s, a minimum legacy threshold, cost wise from an expensive perspective that is increasingly going up because of how much organizations are relying on those platforms, but they don’t traditionally look att them from that perspective because of that one off here’s your website. Now i’m gone. We’re talking about the ongoing costs of maintaining the site exactly, but it’s not just maintaining the site, is maintaining that the ap i connective ity all the software in the scripts that make things do what they do change at haste, that is far more. Rapid than it used to be that’s a great example. Sites are goingto break connections, yes, and what other things are legacy costs that the last thing, the biggest one the next one is going to be with regard to how responsive design functions and responsive design is when you see a website on a desktop, as opposed to on a smartphone and everything shifts around so it looks better on a smartphone that works better. The underlying technology that makes all that work is also in a hyper state of developed and that’s, constantly changing. So it’s and it’s constantly changing to keep up with changes and things like iphones, they come out with new specs and new dimensions, and thing’s called media query thresholds change. So all the rules that go into how stuff shifts around has to change. And if your website or your online platform is a couple of years old, it may already be behind the times and not working well on those devices, even though you thought it originally was designed to do that. Now, listener’s, you’re gonna want to know that i did hear drew say the media query threshold we don’t have enough time to flush that out. So i’m gonna get you gonna get passed, it’s one of fury’s, everything but i’m letting this one go, but i did notice do not do not think that i didn’t catch it, okay ? And then sisi, why don’t you explain the different mean, what ? Drew was just describing those legacy costs and development costs, which i think is pretty commonly understood, but that’s just right, right ? So your development costs that’s really going to be, you know, the money that you’re putting out to make the site right in that first project to actually create what you’re trying to dio and it’s, i love that we’re talking about this because from an organizational perspective, it’s really important to keep a line item in there somewhere and some money in it for those legacy costs, you know, because a lot of times we’re just looking at it and say, okay, well, you know, it’s going to cost x amount of dollars to build the site and then that’s it or, you know, we’re given, you know, we get a grant for it or were given money from a donor to build the site or something like that and it’s looked at as just sort of a one off. You’ve got to think about keeping money in a line item for these ongoing kinds of things and also the developer that you’re working with. Khun give you a good sense of how much money that might end up being, depending on the functionality of your sight, because that’s really going to vary from site to site and from organization to organization. Okay, i should got they should another should from drew. All right, we gotta leave it there. This is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. I’ve been talking to drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and cc dat baizman digital marketing manager at form. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with accounting or your nine ninety thinking about a change of accountants ? Time to get a fresh opinion. Check out witness. Cps dot com start there. Then talk, you know. The partner to talk to you, eat each tomb. He’s been on the show, he’s a good guy. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether they can help you. Regular cpas. Dot com. Now time for tony’s, take two. I do a lot of ah long distance driving about twelve hundred miles every month, or or every six weeks on dh. I’ve got a couple things. Ah, couple things on my mind about that, that i’ve, that i’ve seen that ah, bother me. So the video talks about three of them. I was for here. I feel like the one i wanna talk about is getting gas. The gas lanes in ah, in a gas station are for getting gas and for cleaning your windshields on when you’re cleaning your windshield, that doesn’t mean wash your car with the squeegee that means clean the winter came the glass certainly get your glass nice and clean. Fill up the gas. Take your time doing all those things don’t trip don’t spill any gas, you know, dribbles over anything, nothing like that, but when you’re done, get out of the gas lane and park that car. Don’t be the person sitting still in the gas lane while you’re going to get iced tea. There’s a couple more rants along with that one on the video at tony martignetti dot com now time for gene gene the law machine you know who i’m talking about ? Of course. Well, who else would it be ? Jean takagi, the managing partner of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s, the american bar association’s. Twenty sixteen outstanding. Non-profit lawyer he’s jean takagi he’s at g tak. Welcome back, jean. Thanks, tony. How are you ? I’m doing very well. How are you this afternoon ? I’m doing very well, feelingood out there. Good. Good. I’m glad. Um, i’m overdue for a visit. I need to i need to come see you on the west coast. The ads actually the perfect time that we’ve got some nice weather. It’s a little cooler earlier this summer. But we’re headed out towards cem. Cem a nice weather at the end of september and october. September, october. There are good months. You’re right. I know, i know. I’ve heard that from others. I’ll get there because it was, like twenty. I think twenty fourteen may have been the last time was that when we met, i think it was twenty fourteen the time we met, i think quite awhile. Yeah. Yeah. Uh oh. But then i had another trip, and then you were. I think you weren’t available. Yeah. You blew me off my last trip. I think that was two years ago. Twenty. Um, okay, so we’re talking about donorsearch vice funds. You have some interesting stats about how popular they are that they’ve grown oh, since twenty twelve, give us give us just some basic numbers so we know why we should be paying attention to these things. Sure. And i think some of your listeners may know that that we have to start paying attention to donorsearch buy-in funds and and i’ll i’ll use the lingo dafs if that don’t get me into jargon, no that’s that’s approved. Yeah, okay, so dafs sir, like the fastest growing recipients of charitable giving now in the in the u s so donations of increased from just under fourteen billion in two thousand twelve two. Twenty three billion in two thousand sixteen. And meanwhile, sort of in two thousand sixteen, we’ve seen the top. I think six, uh, charities or six recipients of charitable giving in the country were dafs so, you know, the biggest one being fidelity charitable out doing united way and and american red cross and everyone else. So six out of the top ten recipients of charitable giving were dashed. Something to pay attention, tio sure on also the interesting that the growth rate so you cited uh, fourteen billion in twenty twelve to twenty three. Billion. Twenty, sixteen that’s. Two thirds growth, sixty six percent over five years, and individual giving over that was five years grew by only fifteen percent. Yeah, and you’ll see a lot of reports now saying, suggesting that they’re fewer and fewer donors e-giving teo to public charity, that air doing direct service work. Now, the big donors are still contributing, but fewer numbers of smaller donors, and part of that because of the tax incentive that are changing. But, you know, that’s, huge growth in the donor by fun, you know, in light of those numbers of lessening donors, the growth of donor advice on sixty six percent over five years. Any investment manager would love that. Yeah, no kidding. Shoretz naturally. My my portfolio would certainly love that. My portfolio buy-in buy high sell low. That seems to be my mantra if you look at my portfolio over the lifetime of my portfolio, um, so you and there are a couple of reasons why these air so attractive to individuals ? You know, you get that immediate tax deduction first ? Yeah. I mean, it works great. From the donor’s perspective from, you know, from the donor, you make a contribution. You khun taken immediate charitable contribution deduction, but you get to practically kind of control that gift on and decide who you want to ultimately give it out to in future years, even if it’s going to be two years later, five years later, ten years later, twenty years later, you can sort of hold it in that fund. Now, legally speaking, you make that gift immediately, and you get the deduction. Because your gift is complete. You have given it to a charity in the in the year you made that gift. But practically speaking, that charity that’s, the dafs sponsoring organization, that donor by sun sponsoring organization, which typically is associate it either with a financial services company like fidelity. Charitable that’s the biggest, you know, charity that that receives gibson in the world or hyre you can give it to a community foundation that’s, the other big sponsoring organization of bath and so legally they have control of the money. But practically speaking, they’re probably going to listen to where you want to make the donations to so long that it’s illegal distribution later, so long as you’re going to make the grant toe another public charity, even if it’s you know your intention to give it twenty years later, that’s okay ? Yeah, the donor’s make what’s called a recommendation to the to the charity fundez holding their donor advised funds and ninety nine times out of one hundred. The recommendation is approved. I think basically, they’re just looking to make sure it is a bona fide five o one c three charity that’s being recommended. And then the fund hyre approves that recommendation and makes a gift from from its fund to do that to that five. Twenty three ? Yeah, i think that’s right, tony. So, you know from from the sponsoring organizations by then they might have a little bit more in terms of little legal obstacle. Teo to live up to but from from the perspective of the donor, a lot of them feel like it’s still their money, they still get to control where they’re going to make a grant to even after they’ve taken the charitable contribution deduction, right ? And it’s, you know, apart from sort of getting an immediate charitable contribution deduction, it also allows him to do other things like it allows them to give annually i’m sorry it allows them to bundle up their donation, so maybe they give to a charity to the dafs sponsoring organization like once every five years, and they do that because the incentives for getting a charitable tax deduction have drop because, you know, i don’t want to get too technical, but the rise of the standard deduction that took effect earlier this year and we talked about that that already means only five to ten percent of taxpayers actually get a charitable contribution deduction anymore for making a gift, because the standard deduction is higher than their itemize, but by bundling there donations and say, bundling them up. So instead of making a five thousand dollar gift every year and not being able to use that to get a deduction, they can decide to make a twenty five thousand dollar gift over five years, and then that twenty five thousand dollars now, combined with their other itemized deductions, is big enough to get the value that deduction so they can use the dafs to give every five years. But the charity that they want to be the beneficiary of the fund could receive money from the dafs on an annual basis after they do that, so to the charities that looks like the donor is giving to them every year once that funded the death. So another another useful way that that an individual can use the donor advised funds that’s created by the new tax laws understand, right ? You gross it up to get the get the hyre deduction compared to the standard, and then you can give it out, uh, slowly over time, all right, but make it make it the gift huge big enough to take advantage of the larger deduction at one time or maybe a couple times over several years, exactly in the charity might like that, too, if they’re like saying, you know, we actually don’t need your annual contribution because we’re actually saving up to buy a building or to create this brand new project. So if a year five you give us the larger gift, we would really appreciate that, so it can work for everyone involved as well. Okay, we’re going to take our first break, but when we come back, we’re going to talk about this feature of being able to latto it’s, make your gifts directly to the to the charities over over lots of time and the constant nation that that causes tell us for pete’s sake. Oh my goodness! Think of the companies you can refer and start asking them. You’ve heard the charity testimonials. You’ve heard the company testimonials, it’s time to claim your own long stream of passive revenue from tell us fifty percent of the card processing fees that tell us gets from the companies you refer. Go to you fifty percent month after month after month. That’s your long stream of passive revenue. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony tell us now, let’s, go back to jean takagi. Okay, uh, sometimes i don’t remember where i am. But this time i do. So i made because i said it, okay, so this feature that you can give over time over many, many, many years causes consternation in the non-profit community. Do i have that right ? Yeah, you’re right. So what ? You know what ? If the donor is e-giving annually to their donors buy-in spun and saying to the charity, you know, well, i’ll give to you at the end of five years at the end of ten years from my donor advised funds, but, you know, in five or ten years that donor, right have other priorities, and so that charity that used to get the annual gifts from that donor might not be on that list anymore, and so they can’t really think about that in their budget, so it does create some concern by charity. Yeah. Now, in that case, i mean, if i were advising them, i would get that pledge in a written document and the legal enforceability of that, you know, we can we can write us that it’s got some enforceability weaken. We’re relying on your promise, we’re going to take some administrative actions. Buy-in reliance, you know, maybe there’s a small consideration, maybe there’s a small dahna yeah, so, you know, we can we can we could make that legally enforceable in a lot of states, if not all the states, yeah, i think that’s true, tony, but then you have to think about whether even if you win the battle with the one donor-centric it in court, what that does in terms of the long term and your relationship with every other donors who now knows you sue donors when i don’t clean get yeah, yeah, i mean, you got a definitely are you ? Yeah, i know you’re right. This is an interesting conversation because planned e-giving i’ve dealt with this and way we deal with it as gifts come, and i’ve dealt with the aftermath of it after afterwards, i’ve never had a client that that maybe i shouldn’t reveal this. I don’t know clients non-profits are very reluctant to sue their donors. They you rather work something out. Andi it’s true, i haven’t had a client that well, first of all, i haven’t had that many clients we have to enforce we had where we had to force agreements against, uh, right against the donors and that’s, very rare that you have. To hold this document up that they signed years earlier and remind them of the enforceability of it on ben, you know, charities are reluctant to do it and have to be, i don’t have to be a scenario where there’s a lot of money at stake and it’s a pretty clear case because you’re right, the pr is very bad, and, you know, it may never even make the popular press, but just in donorsearch coll’s within that individual organization, you know, things get around, especially if it is a large gift from a prominent donor. Back-up yeah, and especially that donors still alive tony versus in a plan gift where you might be contesting it against airs or for other recipients of that. But when the donor is still alive and saying, i don’t like your charity as much as i used to, i still like you a little bit, but i don’t want to give you my full gift that i thought i wanted to give to you that’s a tough i got a raise, so there is a practical aspect too the enforceability of these agreements that i’m saying can be made legally enforceable, but but the enforceability and itself sometimes is enough of a persuasive factor to a donor that, you know, i think they keep up their commitment when, when they think they might not have otherwise might never go to court. Yeah, but the donor might see the seriousness of the donation and know that he would hurt the charity he or she would hurt the charity if they didn’t go through with that pledge because maybe relied on it to partially constructed building, and you need the full funds to finish construction. Otherwise you can’t do it, and you’ve wasted a lot of money and may be created some lawsuits against you for not being able to do it. So the donors, you know, relying on that donor’s money to your detriment or twenty to your detriment is is the basis for a lawsuit, and that would hopefully be convincing to a donor, even without the lawsuit part that you relied on on their promised teo, meet their place. I like heidtke idea. Yeah. Okay. Um but the bigger issue so let’s take it away from an individual charity. The bigger issue is that there’s. A lot of money parked in dahna. Advice, funds and we really don’t know how much and the what bothers congress and a lot of people in the charity community is that this money is parked there and it’s not getting to the five oh one see threes that it’s that it was that the donor earned a charitable deduction for giving to you it could sit indefinitely literally, right ? Yeah, so under tax laws, it could sit there indefinitely. So the donor advice fun sponsoring organization is not legally compelled to make any distributions at all. If the donor says nothing about it for ten years, twenty years than the sponsoring organization doesn’t have to do it. Although some of started to say, you know what ? We’ll have an internal policy that says, if you don’t, if you’re completely inactive your fund, we will start to make distributions based on what information we have of where you want it to go, so they’re trying to do some self regulation there, but there are no external laws right now that required donorsearch funds, teo, make any distributions at all. Yeah, well, i suspect they see a lot of a lot of the the the concerns, especially from the isat, the senate finance committee, charles grassley, chuck grassley is chair of is that senate finance ? Yeah, right, well, the senate finance committee might be concerned with that asshole, but they’re really the argument is going on with academics and professionals and big organizations, including community foundations and these big financial institutions all over the place. And you’re seeing a lot of books on the non-profits sector now sort of criticizing no philantech be including through donorsearch buy-in funds and the controls that these donors have over large amounts of money even after they’ve taken the deduction. Interesting, interesting discussions out there now now it za parallel to me, you know it’s, it’s, it’s similar to a lot of the planned gift’s a similar principle or policy around a lot of the planned gif ts so take i’m thinking like the charitable remainder trusts or charitable gift annuities where basically ah, person let’s use the trust because that’s not that’s, not charity specific. So let’s use that example. Someone creates a charitable ranger trust. They leave the option. Teo name some charitable beneficiaries a cz remainder beneficiaries which means at the death of the donor what’s left, goes to these charities and in the during the life of the donor or donors, sometimes a lot of times, it’s a couple there getting income for their getting income. So getting income for life when they die, what remains goes to charities, and they reserve the right to change your those charities might be now they get an immediate income tax deduction for that. When they create that in the year that they create that charitable remainder trust. So i see a similar policy. No it’s it’s. An immediate deduction for a long term gift to charity. Although there is some guarantee because the difference is that the donors are going to die and when they die, the people getting that people died getting the income die, there will definitely be a gift to charity. So there’s there’s that right there is that limiting factor. But you could see the policy similarity, right ? Yeah. That’s. Definitely some similarities. But i think that the donor advised funds are more concerning, particularly because when you do a charitable remainder trust, for example, your deduction is going to be the value of the gift that ultimately is left over for the charity using you. Know, like actuarial tables. Yeah, that present value there going ? Yeah. So what is it going to be worth ? The likely could based on average, like bands and stuff. What will the charity likely get ? That’s what you can deduct the donor advised funds, especially if you give gifts of like real estate or privately, closely held stock, you get to not pay any capital gains on it. If you’re a donor on, then you get a deduction of the fair market value, which is big because if you gave it to a private foundation, if you formed a private foundation, you don’t get that gift a fair market value, that deduction of fair market value essentially get the deduction of cost. So being able to sell something that, you know, wildly appreciated in value and getting the fair market value deduction and not having to pay any capital gains on it and then still having the practical control of where to ultimately spend that money. Um, you can see how that might be even more attractive. A donation vehicle tow an individual donor, but why ? At the same time they’re concerned some from from congress and from from others. Who think that they are, you know, advocates for the nonprofit sector of saying is really going to be put to good use for charitable use, or is it going to sit in these funds, particularly in funds that are run by some of the financial institutions where their continued to get, you know, investment season stuff that that air being generated because they’re continually being invested ? You know what charitable good are those funds doing ? You know, professionally, you know, if they’re if they’re held by fidelity and being managed and no promise of went to distribute. All right, hold that let’s, take our last break hoexter give, you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving simple if your donor’s consent a text that can make a donation not only simple, affordable and secure ceo chadband oid very smart guy, he set up a smart company. You want to get the info, which you should, you should want to get the info text, npr. Two, four, four, four nine nine nine and you will ah, not only get info, but also be able to claim a special listener offer. We’ve got several more minutes left for fund-raising no, not fund-raising dahna advice funds where’s, my where’s, my lousy intern. I wish i had one. We’re not talking about fund-raising that was a big mistake. Sorry, jean. We’re talking about dahna advice funds. I need an intern. Esso, i have someone to blame for this poor copy. All right ? Yeah. Yeah. The fair market value. Yes. The donor donor advised funds gives a fair market value. You made several points, but the one that hit me the most because i do plan giving is dahna advice fund to get a fair market value charitable deduction immediately plan give to get a present value deduction based on your life expectancy. So it’s going to be less. And if you hold the money in your donor’s vice fund for twenty years, it’s, in fact worth less, then it was in the year you put it in. But you’ve got a face value fair market value deduction, didn’t you ? Well, actually, you know what ? What you holding to donorsearch buy-in fundez might appreciate wildly. So if you put a, you know, a million dollars investment or even a ten thousand dollar investment into a donor advice fund of apple stock, you know when it was nothing, and you held it for ten years, and all of a sudden you’re sitting on, you know, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody take capital gains tax for that, right ? But you are, you know, the donor advisor or the donor of one hundred billion dollars fund, you know, that’s held by financial institutions, affiliated charity sponsoring dafs sponsoring organizations. And, you know, you get all sorts of benefits for, you know, being, you know, the donor to donorsearch by son. You know, you get to go to the fancy cocktail parties and gala charity gallas and people swooning all over you because, you know, you can make huge distribution to the to the folks if it was your own money, but not your own money anymore. Yeah, well, it’s, not yours, right ? It’s yours to decide what to do with, but it doesn’t belong to you. The recommendation of where it should go belongs to you. Now, of course, on the other side of that, you could have invested in. Annoy ll start. I’m trying something the stock that crashed terribly, but you might have invested in something that depreciated on dh there’s going to be a lot less left for charity because you didn’t invest well, yet you got you got a deduction for what you put into the fund initially. So in that case, the charities really do lose the public loses out because a lot less money is going to go to charity. Then we gave you a deduction for sure that’s true as well, and i don’t mean teo be sort of a nay sayer of the donor advised funds because there’s a lot of good things that they do and, you know, they’ve been around for, like over eighty years, really, with community foundations and, you know, the original intent was sort of to collaborate. Have donors collaborate with the advice of the community foundation about how they could sort of use their money’s on dh use their donations together to fund some of the most important things to benefit that community. And, you know, that aspect of donor advised funds is, i think, a wonderful thing and the, you know, a lot of critics. Who are arguing against the critics of the donor advised funds so the ones who are the pro donorsearch buys fundez woobox are saying, you know, a lot of this money that is going into donordigital fun would otherwise not go into charitable goods anyway, they might they might never make the charitable sector. S so it’s not like saying that, you know, people are e-giving too don’t advise funds, and it never gets charity that way that, you know, the counter argument is some of those funds would never get to charity unless they went through donorsearch buy-in funds. And by the way, our distribution rate is much higher than private foundation grade, so even if the donor gave it to, you know, created their own private foundation, then they’re just required to invest or grant out essentially five percent of their investment assets per year and don’t advice funds are granting out, on average, somewhere about twenty percent of their assets for years, so we don’t even have a problem here. Why do you want to create rules to limit what we’re doing but there’s a counter to that as well ? That says well, that twenty percent includes donorsearch vice funds e-giving toe, other donor advised funds and that’s like when you want to shift your donors fund from fidelity to vanguard xero or to the silicon valley community foundation or did it new york community foundation ? You’re just moving money around from one financial talkto another one charity to another, but nobody’s actually putting it to use teo, do good for the community that the other arguments and counter arguments the other problem with that look atyou doing both sides. The other problem with those measures of distribution are they could be skewed by very large gif ts that come from one or two funds while lots of small funds aren’t making any any distributions jean, we have to leave here. Maybe we should have planned this for a whole hour. But we hyre is this your lackluster host ? He’s ? Jean takagi, managing attorney of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group he’s, our legal contributor just following for god’s sake non-profit latto blood dot com and at g tak thank you very much, gene. Great talking to you next week it’s website day https and getting more gift from your sight if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com, by tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Creative producer is claire meyer, huh ? Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. Marc stein is our web guy. How much mark silverman is our web guy, and the music is by scott stein. She we will be next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great better than me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hi, are you interested in blockchain technologies and crypto currencies ? Then tune in here on talk radio. Got n y c with me, david every friday, eleven a, m twelve p, m eastern time. As we answer your questions and interview, great guests live on internet radio on building the blockchain where you can catch the blockchain revolution. Oppcoll you’re listening to the talking alternative net, are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down ? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dot. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz buy-in

Nonprofit Radio for July 27, 2018: Nonprofit Radio’s 400th Show!

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Duitz ah, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s our four hundred show. You recognize it from that live music it’s our quarter centenary show. Eighth anniversary we have to listeners of the week charlie mcelveen he e mailed me. I’m a longtime listener and enough for-profit consultant i refer folks to your podcast frequently and quote oh, charlie, i like that very much. Thank you and daniel maori she tweeted, check out twenty martignetti for the roll up your sleeves work of keeping non-profits going. His four hundredth podcast is tomorrow. Danielle, thank you very much. I read that i got goose bumps. Charlie and danielle, thank you so much for supporting non-profit radio. Congratulations on being our four hundredth show. Listeners of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of octa phobia if you told me you missed today’s show our eighth anniversary, we’ve got claire meyerhoff, our creative director and president of the plan giving agency the pg agency she’s here to co host. And we got scott stein, composer of our theme song he’s, back with his mobile eighty eight and live music. We’ve got giveaways for anna from our anniversary show sponsor that’s cura coffee, year after year. Very loyal cura and lots of calls coming got listener stories of how you got into non-profit work thank you so much for all the stories you’ll be. I’ll be reading them. They’ll all be part of our eighth anniversary show. It’s tons of fun fur non-profit medios four hundred show, eighth anniversary tony stayed too. It’ll be live listen love podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant by regular cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tellers let me welcome claire meyerhoff. Hi, great to see you. Great to see you two. So nice to be in our new studio owner in new york city, it’s only the second show, second window in the new studio, lovett high ceilings, more light, nice and bright. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having making trip. Let’s. Say a little scotty stein. Scott stein. Hey, hey. Hello. Hey, dahna composer of our theme song, uh, chief red wine, but she’ll be performing as well as another song for us. Yes, i well, something off the most recent album, yes is well, alright. Cool. Yeah. Hyre having me it’s always a pleasure, scott. Absolutely. Absolutely. You’re part of the show. Um, clamor half what say you what’s going on with you in the pg agency? Well, all kinds of things helping non-profits big and small with their planned e-giving marketing efforts. Aren’t you an altruistic person? Yes. And i’m going to be an ignite a speaker at the charitable plane. Give unconference in october in vegas and thie ignite speakers are are some select speakers who get five minutes and twenty slides and it’s a really strict format. So you can’t go over five minutes and you take over twenty slides. So you’re putting the place on fire. I’m gonna put on fire and there’s this one where the slides go in a rapid like everything. I think so. Yes, exactly. You when you’re ready or not. The slide right answer, right. So i’m doing in five minutes and twenty slides. I’m doing twenty do’s and don’ts for creating donor-centric marketing efforts don’t profiles for your play e-giving marking do’s and don’ts so, like i do start way ahead of time don’t leave it to the last minute to get the donor that you want to feature because some people think, oh, i have this donor, they’ll do it and i can do it in a week. No, you should start six months ahead of time, okay, tow line up your daughter so and if you want to get the other nineteen or the other nineteen didn’t know he was claire in las vegas and you think it’s too terrible give planning conference. No, i’m not, but i know it’s cg ap terrible gift you know that’s that’s tell gift annuities the transfer conference for still dropping planning weight. I took a picture of it. I haven’t. Um i have my keep talking about to tell you what it is in a second. All right? Because i took a screenshot earlier so that i know exactly what it is. And it is the c g p conference. National association of charitable gift planners, which is the awesome, fabulous organisation. And together we’ll get school. October seventeen to nineteen. Let’s. See, we got anybody on the phone? No. Okay. Well, then, uh, scottie, you don’t know what’s going on with scott stein? Uh, well, i’m staying busy and just, you know, living the life of a professional musician here in new york. It’s my eleventh year here in new york. Right now, i’m doing. I’ve got a couple projects going. I just took over as the music director for a show that is running off broadway called wicked frozen it’s it’s kind of what it sounds like it is a mash up of the two blockbusters, and it makes fun of them. It’s very, very funny. It runs sunday nights through labor day at st lukes theater on west forty sixth street. And i have a monthly songwriter siri’s now in brooklyn, which is happening this thursday at bar chord out. Did ms park s o this thursday at nine p? M okay, i should be a lot of funds. Grayce, right? Yeah, we’ll chat again. We got we got telethon klain on the phone. Tell us shake on you with us. Hey, hey, hey, i’m here. I know you are, tony. Hello, she’s. The vice president of marketing. At pursuing on dh pursuing has little sponsorship announcement don’t you? For us, we dio we have got our latest pursuing e-giving outlook ready for your eyes and your ears? No. Even before that, i meant that you were going to renew your sponsorship of non-profit radio. Yes, you are. You’re welcome. Hey, thank you. We won’t partnering with you and we are really honored to to do so. We are all working for the good of small and midsize non-profits big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re all working on it. Ok, so tell me about the thiss pursuing e-giving outlook. Yeah, yeah, i jumped the gun. I gave away the goodies. Uh, front e-giving outlook is a report that we deal with. This is our third year in a row did to do this where we really take a bunch of the major industry trends in our sector. We look at the giving us a report. We look at target analytics donor-centric index. We look at the end, men are online sexual support, and we kind of digest those into one white paper that we put together with our insight from various fundraisers and marketers. Here on the scene. Cool. So it’s a it’s a roundup that’s around up there, claire. So, yeah. So, taylor, what would you say is the most surprising thing that you that you learned is you put together the white paper? I mean, it’s interesting to see, just like the magnitude of giving, you know, and it’s a four hundred ten billion dollar industry. I think that that’s just astounding. Um, one thing i think is an interesting thing to call out izz the growth in individual e-giving continues sort of surpassed growth and other areas when looking at e-giving by foundations, corporations uh, requesting like that all of it is growing, but individual were only makes up seventy percent of the land of the living landscape. And, um, i think that’s interesting to know that that’s the one that still continues to grow with the fastest pace. I also would say that the trends and online and mobile e-giving we’re starting to see that you know, traffic here once fifty percent of coming from mobile and hard about what you need to be thinking about global should have been yeah, you should have been for years now, so in addition to the paper, there’s, also a webinar that people could watch right, even though webinars passed, they can get the archive on the landing page, right? Yeah, okay, and that is that page for you to get the pursuing e-giving outlook, the paper, and also to watch the webinar is tony dahna slash pursuing capital, p capital p, for pursuing and please. Okay, taylor, i want to thank you very much. Hey, thank you, thank you. Having me on. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you again for your support of non-profit radio. Love you. Yeah, of course. All right, speculator. Okay, um, i brought a little history along. Claire. Come my love for you. Yes, history i love brought the you helped me devise these show sheets, which i’ve, you know, tweets a little bit over the years. But you gave me the basic format years ago, eight years ago, to be exact labbate started twenty ten started this gig and that’s a lot of things. And your first show, it was july twenty third, two thousand ten, and that was that was shown over two. You were only a second. Showed you on the second show you believe? That’s great. I’m not upset that you weren’t on showed over one. Well, i i think i helped you sort of get show number one together, and so i feel definitely a part of show number one, and i’m honored to be i think we are number two. You are. You wouldn’t come on number one because that because show number one was called tony martignetti show. Yeah, we never called it that thing i made you change told me that name sucks. Yeah, well, i need you need to have non-profit people are googling like non-profits. Yeah. Tony martignetti non-profit radio show that’s it twenty martignetti probably reinardy morphed eight years later. So you were willing to come on with the title improved show number two s. So what do we talked? We talked about oh, storytelling in jargon zoho jargon. And we came up with a guard in jail. So i have to admit george in jail is claire miree dafs construct? Yes, jargon. Jail sametz somewhere to seo non-profit order, right? Like we need to raise money to build capacity. So we conserve more you? Yes, i was passing building in way. Want to help more young people? Yes, young people not use right. Alright. So jargon jail was your oh yeah. And so so since july twenty third, two thousand ten it’s amazing is your first show sheet right there. That’s eight years ago it was donald trump was not president, right? No wass obama obama was two thousand ten force obama. Alright, way. Don’t do politics. I’m not properly. Please, uh, unless i say so. All right. So, um, one of the xero we have a bunch of listener stories. Why don’t you? Don’t you read our first story on dh then that’s who? It’s by okay, there you go and, you know, we’re joyce is from i don’t know, okay, so so tony and i, when we were trying to think of what a good topic would be for this four hundred show, we came up with the idea that let’s find out why people started working and non-profits people don’t go to college and major non-profit so don’t lend up in non-profits way collected stories from our listeners and others about why people working non-profits so here is a story by joyce heavy, and she says the seed was planted in the nineteen seventies when i was in my twenties. I’m sixty nine now. I was in mogadishu, somalia, living on the upper floor of a hotel. It was evening almost dark, and i looked down into a dusty alley. I saw a young man walking and carrying a large caught almost a twin size bed on his head later in the lobby, i mentioned it to a friend, and she said, don’t you know, he was looking for a place to put his bed down for the night that planted a seed in my heart to seek opportunities to work, to help others. Have a better lives? I did my first americorps year with volunteer maryland in two thousand five at the age of fifty plus at partners and care of maryland, and they hired me as a grant writer. Now i have moved on till langton green and annapolis. I’m in annapolis all the time. They provide homes and support two adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It is truly a privileged to write grand proposals every day for support for this wonderful organization. And then joyce goes on to say thank you you for the good work you trust well, thank you, joy you, joyce. Thank you. Coffee sometime in annapolis? Yeah, i love annapolis. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing your story, joyce. Two of our stories today, we’re going to win prizes from cure coffee. Teachers are show are always our anniversary show sponsored, always grateful toe cure a coffee. And you know, when i introduced you, i neglected to say the pg agency dot com and claire says claire says seeley i r e z fancy cc you find around a pg agency, dot com or the land giving agency llc but pg agency dot com is our website no, the just pg agency websites just peachy jutze okay, thank you. We got a little more time. According to my little schedule here. So why don’t we read another story? I was that’s what i was going to say. How about i do want you read one, please. This is, uh, kate cover line. She put it on the website. It was the employee culture that first got me involved with non-profit work non-profit office atmosphere is typically one of collaboration, creativity and scrappiness. Read adaptability here, a junior achievement of greater washington. We’re a close knit bunch, often working on many large projects across multiple departments development, education and operations as a young professional wanting to learn as much as i possibly could. The non-profit environment was a perfect match for me. I find myself wearing multiple hats on a daily basis, and i wouldn’t have it any other way. Awesome. Thank you. Keep cover line. And she’s in d c she was in dc. We got dc. We got annapolis. Thanks, kate. Great story. Thank you. Starting to see a theme of help, you know, helping others. Not surprising. Right? All right. And doing. Something for the common good, not just two. You know, the world is bigger than making profits for a big corporation than all of us. Yeah. Scott. Scott stein, yes, i should like a little music. All right, so your your music directing this show, first of all, i am not you okay. Any any recording coming up is that? Is that a bad? Is that a tough question? Asked a nen dependent position. No, it’s, a totally fair question. I’m just a little bit of a lull in terms of recording right now, so i’m just spending my time. I’m working on all right development timed other projects, including this, this off broadway show, i conduct four different chorus is here in new york city on de so those air that’s taken a lot of my effort right now, but i’m still playing, and i’m still writing, and hopefully, soon hopefully getting back in the studio. Ilsen okay, okay, awesome. Cheap red wine. That is our theme song. So i brought along the timeline. This claire’s clothes timelines are ubiquitous for this show. Chief red wine first debuted on non-profit radio on september sixth. Twenty thirteen. It was we were into scott and i were introduced by a mutual friend. A lawyer friend? Yeah, yeah. My friend josh becker. Yeah, she was my roommate. Okay, where was he? Where? Here. On the upper west side. Okay. Josh becker introduced us. I loved cheap red wine. I told scottie what i was looking for. He suggested this song. I listened to it and it was magic. And so, september six. Twenty thirteen i was the first time he was on that. That cheap red wine was played. And it’s been our theme song. Everything. So what did you have for music? Before that we stole something from beauty and the neo-sage treyz. I tried to find josh becker. The crack attorney tried to find who license who owns it. The light from its very hard. A lot of songs are like nobody will know it’s not us, it’s, not us. It was an old song free fried green tomatoes way could not find i did, we did. Dilgence i hired attorney, try to find the right find who that license it from. We could not, so we just kept stealing, and then the first time scott was on the show was our two hundredth show, which was july eighteenth, twenty fourteen. First time you were on with two hundred remember. Well, it’s got a plea. Would you please play this song that i love? I love this. I love this, thank you damn song. Alright, red wine is not going well with that kind introduction. Baby, just keep him talking. Sooner or later, i think around. Just so watch me. You see romantic advice from a bill. But i’m looking for answers on a tv screen. Wait till our ups from my down, just a bit game. And this love that we found. You know, you used to find charming, but it can be here on how you see. It was handsome, but doesn’t matter now. So give for land for my eyes along your time, allow because i’ve got her any promises, but i’ll let you read on. And now, no way living diamonds, and they won’t come back. In-kind clothe good stuff, and you’re too easily distracted to care. Wait, i got to minute options, so i’m gonna do the best that i can. You have some competition day when i’m wealthy, man. You know, you used to find it charming that i can’t figure out how you see your photos, hands, but it doesn’t now, so get for a long time, because i’ve got a big promises, but she brit who i am now wearing glasses, take your dream labbate days, the people can kiss my little black things. We see way, because the heavens no fast, all victory signs, is perfect for you. No! Nobody is way. Hyre hyre yeah, you know, used to famine, charming, but i can’t figure out how you’re saying your boat was handsome. Never mind it. Don’t matter now, it’s. Okay for a long time, allow gotta remmy krauz osili buy-in hyre. What? Neo-sage hyre cheap red wine. Scott stein. Thanks. Very absolutely. He’s you’ll find him in scott’s, time music, dot com and also at scott stein music and he’s gonna play the song they don’t show me another. Another one coming from scotty. What? We got something on the phone again. You don’t do you there. How are you? Hello, you. How are you? Good. Good. Very good. I’m calling today’s a thank you for your dedication to educating non-profit i think it’s really impressive to keep this going for eight years. I’m not keeping any burial show doesn’t show that face a little dedication. I know you were really hired. Thank you. Happy. Thank you. Thank you. I thank you very much. Really. Uh, for genuine. Thank you. I thank you because you’re a partner at weather cps. And when you see piela is one of our sponsors. So i’m grateful to you and wagner that you’re helping us keep this show going for the benefit of small and midsize non-profit so thank you very much. You guys are really happy to support your wonderful show. I think like our passion ofthe non-profits matches your passion so he really feel that they’re really good. And geever with connor’s off non-profits that are equal in the other ninety five percent dilgence in twenty different states. So and they really all that hate, all the education they get. So thank you. All right. And you’ve been a guest, and we’ll have you back when there are accounting topics to discuss in the meantime. Okay? Absolutely. Yes, but again. So thank you. And thanks for calling me and thanks. Really? Thanks for your kind words. Thank you so much. Thank you. You duitz tune there at wagner cpas. Dot com. We got time for some stories. We got jean online alert that’s so let’s. Jump to jean jump. Jean jean takagi latto keep this going. Jean takagi, how are you? Hey, and in great tony. Congratulations on four hundred. Oh, my god. Thank you, jean. Thank you for being our such a regular contributor. Legal are legal contributor. This is jean takagi principle of non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco and it’s. The wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com which you need to subscribe to he’s at g tak and jean i brought along your very first your very first appearance. I brought the show sheet for your very first appearance on non-profit radio. That was show number seven. That was august twenty seventh, two thousand ten that’s. Awesome. And we talked about governance. I think right board security or something? Yes, techniques to keep your board on, i might might voice just crackling on a fourteen year old techniques technics to keep your board on board and out of trouble. That was our first topic together. Yeah. That’s. Awesome. Eight, eight years kind. Alright, i recall that you met emily and i done here. We had a drink. That’s, right? That was when emily chan was with you, but so that you know, you’re our longest running contributor, jean. I’m so grateful to you. Thank you so much. Every month you’re thinking of topics developing them coming on the show and and sharing your expertise. Your wisdom. Thank you so much for that. Well, thank you, tiny. Now let go ye and say thank you for for helping that the other ninety five percent of non-profits that oftentimes get overlooked on educational shows. Another thing so thank you. Absolutely that’s our that’s, our core, the other ninety five percent of smaller. Midsize. So all right, jean, i want to thank you so much for calling. Thanks for being a part of our four hundred show and the show on the show month after month. Thank you. Congrats, honey. Thank you, jean. Um, so, let’s read some stories again now. Okay? Let’s. See what you got? Maybe a little background music for like, that was a short one from from daniela’s maori. Danielle mauer. Now, she was one of our listeners that we have a week this week. Yes, i think i know her. Hi, daniel. So danielle says i’ve always enjoyed working with non-profits from as a penn state student government to helping start new york cares day to working for international dyslexia association to amazing brooklyn book festival. You always feel better when supporting a non-profit volunteer staff donorsearch just do it. Just do it. Thanks, danielle. Just do it. Just work with non-profits help people. I’ve heard that somewhere before. Just gets to do something for me and tell me that that’s daniel’s? Yes. Okay, it’s. Not even a nike stolen from daniel. I know that. Some of what little i know about sports. I have t shirts and gave me it’s, a guy swinging a baseball bat, says touchdown, that’s, hard that’s, my sports, that’s, my sports repertoire. So i’m not even gonna ask you, mr yankees nick’s, because you’re in new york, this like may, when the knicks and the bucks on the hawk see you’re from new jersey, so you’re probably like a yankees fan. Your parents rocks the hawks, the jets, they all get together for the next hour past of those for the super series. What year? Tony what’s. Here we have a super siri’s, super serious. All right, i got one, i got one. This ah, karen graham she’s, the executive director of idealware she’s, been a guest. Idealware is a very good, very good non-profit helps organization’s used technology and mates, rates all kinds of different software. That’s, great before non-profits they should be on the show. Yes, it really is. Karen graham summer before i graduated college, i worked at a summer camp run by united cerebral palsy that was my first non-profit job camp sandy wheels, everyone helped out with the chores according to their abilities. One of the campers was a preteen boy who had limited control over his arm muscles, resulting in some erotic spastic movements. So maybe you can imagine what happened when it was his turn to help wash the dishes after dinner. I don’t think he’d ever washed dishes before he was having the time of his life, splashing soap and water all over the room and grinning from ear to year, delighted to be doing his part. That was heartwarming, but that’s not why i got into non-profit work what inspired me to a career in non-profits was his parents a t end of the week, they told me how grateful they were that he got to have this experience while they enjoyed a week of respite, hearing that help me to understand how our work at the camp was making a difference for families all year round. She’s no longer on the front in the front lines of helping people but she’s still got to be a part of the profession that is itself enriching people’s lives. Big, big support idealware can ground that’s great. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. All right, i’ve got a story it’s from diana in virginia. So diana says that after working a variety of jobs from commercial fishing worked up in alaska and like a salmon place to investment banking and private jet sails, she worked in a private jet sails. She said she wanted to be part of something that contributed to more than simply enriching already wealthy members of society, so she wanted to do something better. So she took the first non-profit job that caught her eye answering phones at an in house member call center for national wildlife group. Once she got her foot in the door, her previous experience and skills helped her naturally progress to development work by chatting with donors and fielding tough questions from their diverse constituency. She really learned what motivates different types of donors to give and participate or not, and why? So? She says, though her job responsibilities ended up including large direct mail campaigns in mass marketing, everything she learned from working with donors on that front line, answering those phone calls confirmed what she already knew. No amount of aggregated data can substitute for personal interaction with the donor. A quick, friendly thank you call can establish your strength of a relationship is easily as a crappy postcard can end one. So picking up the phone, chatting with a donor, you’ll learn so much more about why they give and why other donors like that give them just like senate. Crappy direct mail was buy-in dahna thank you, doctor. Thank you. All right, we need to take a break. Weinger cps, it’s personal now huge to you just heard him talk. That was him. You could talk to him yourself. Find out how the firm can help you with your accountant. He’s a partner. He knows all the stuff. He knows. All this accounting stuff non-profits in and out. You heard him say twenty, twenty states. They’re representing hundreds of non-profits twenty states. Check out the firm at regular cps dot com. Then you pick up the phone and talk to him. It’s easy. No pressure. You know the guy now? Pregnancy piela dot com now, time for take two. It’s alive listen right piela l l p p a i got to do the live listen love well p p a l i double r empty, eh? It’s going out live listen loves going out. Tio rockford, illinois. Portland, oregon. I love portland, new york, new york. Multiple, always multiple new york, new york lovett. A story in new york that my parents are from a story. Yeah, they grew up in a story. My love’s down to ah story as well as manhattan, tampa, florida edison, new jersey. Lovett, um open california adah latto california. Welcome, atalanta sounds like rapido latto latto ilsen loved all those. We got to go abroad. How about, uh oh, eight million nixon missouri. Sam spelled missouri. Mos es that’s what i thought was mexico. No. Nixon, nixon, nixon, missouri. Like live love out to you, germany. We can’t see your town, but i know to say guten tag germany’s with us and one john ville john ville, brazil open it! God! Oh, my god! Oh, to brazil, large of portuguese. Thank you. On the heels of the live listen, world has become the podcast pleasantries because we got a tank that’s the bulk of the audience that’s the thirteen thousand people listening podcast pleasantry so pleasantries out to you. Thank you so much for being a part of our four hundred show for sending stories. Thank you for supporting the show. What can i say? Pleasant trees to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections go out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. It’s got to have a little background just for the am and fm affiliate as i send affiliate affections. Here’s a little music because i don’t want over them to get lost because i had them. I thank them last. I don’t want them to feel it’s, you know losers last or something like that. Actually, they’re they’re like radio. That was first terrestrial regular. Exactly radio this is the video from the twenties, twenties teamviewer. That means my own age. Nineteen teens i work in radio in the stone age you were a technology that long island g b b the pulse of long island. And you were in a washington station too. I was the wto’s news radio fifteen hundred. So the am and fm was going nowhere on what happened with digital media. Minister. Mazarene next-gen radio. So the right kayman perfections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Thank you to your stations for so much for hosting non-profit radio. I’m gonna read you more stories. Yes. Your ship back-up music, scott. I’m really grateful. Thank you. It’s. Got in a frame. It’s got there? Yes, there. His head. Okay, we’re on facebook live. I ended with non-profits very organically because the needs of our special needs son were so great. I didn’t rejoin the workforce after his birth. Yet being a little gregarious, i found opportunities to volunteer and sat on two boards of directors as well as volunteering with girl scouts. One of the board president said to us, we’ve had a shortfall, so we’re asking everyone to raise one hundred dollars. That was twenty years ago. So one hundred dollars. Twenty years ago, i decided to email ten friends latto asked for ten dollars each. I had four responses totaling two hundred forty dollars. I knew then that this could be fun. The rest of this say, is history that’s? Interesting? I love they. So they emailed ten friends and asked ten french for how much apiece white-collar so that’s a hundred which really was looking for donors gave and two forty? Yes, exactly. On average of sixty bucks each write some for. Yeah. So i’m gonna know that’s that’s from tricia magic baker treyz imagine baker, i’m nominated for prize. You’re pounding your plastic that’s pretty good. Would you care? Uh, claire, would you mind reading for for patricia? Exactly. Whatthe cura mission is mission is in blue there for us. We have such a pretty voice. Thank you, tony. Cure a coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee dance with every cup of cure, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. Way ara direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cura coffee dot com cura coffee dot com don’t you talk? Pretty that’s. Beautiful coffee, dot com that’s beautiful. And you know the ceo of your coffee is a dentist. That’s? Why? They do throw in dental care dental care for their for their independent being farmers yeah, i love that cause that’s near and dear to his heart and that’s a you know, authentic. You know charity for him to set up that’s. That’s that’s him he’s, the coffee guy. All right, so just, um, matty magic baker. You’re gonna get a prize. You’re going to get a pound of cure. It will be sent to you. Just get your address later on. Let’s. See where? Uh, where we are now. Amy, we got any simple ward on the phone. Yes, it is an amy and amy. Amy, several ward. How are you? I’m doing great. Other than spending a couple seconds reflecting on the fact that it’s the four hundred show and i was on on the one hundred show and calculating how many years that went by other than that, i’m doing great. Okay, well, you are doing great. You’ve been great for six years. That’s out. That’s the calculation you came up with, of course. There’s. Any sample ward? Our social media contributor. Ceo of entender non-profit technology network at inten dot organ. Of course, amy, is that amy r s ward? The artist for rene? Any simple word. So? So i have your first show sheet here. You were on? Yeah, you were on the first time you were on. Was indeed the one hundred show. Exactly. That was july thirteenth. Twenty twelve. And where had you on for the full hour? It was an all social man show that show. Yes. One hundred show jamie sample. And i’m so grateful. Amy, you know, we have such good conversations. You spend so much time, you know, curating topics for the show, we talk about it in advance, and then you come on and, you know, like, wherever you are, you’re so giving, you know you’ve called from hallways you’ve called from home when little lauren lewis was sick. You’ve called from home, you know, of course, the inten office. And i’m very, very grateful to you for all these six years of being r social media contributor. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. It’s. Certainly been fun. I do, though, miss. Uh, you know, when i first started about one hundredth episode but the episodes after that when i was living in new york and we got to do the show in the studio together. That was fun. I i enjoy getting to call in from anywhere and make the same kind of show happen, but it was definitely fun getting to call in from the studio together. Yeah. Yeah, that was there was one. You you were running. You were out of breath. Remember that one? Yes, because i would it’s live. I don’t usually late, but if new york and you don’t get to control the subway. So i was feeling very, very late. That was okay. Yeah, we know you were on your way. We of course you could. You couldn’t call because you were in the subway. Actually, i knew you were on your way. And, you know, i kept everybody occupied. Oh, well, you stalled out there. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course. But so grateful. I mean, back then that when you started back then you were just you were the membership director of that. I i shouldn’t say just because there’s a membership director now, then ten. Of course, you were the membership director of inten and then, uh, quickly promoted to ceo. And thanks for being on non-profit radio high was fired-up ceo it’s a credential? It’s a credential? No question about it. Absolutely. So thank you for all these years, you know, thank you for having me on and six year i’m raising my pen. What i happen to have in my hand, here’s to many more years. Thank you. Okay. And we’ll see you with, uh, we’ll see you in portland. A toe non-profit technology conference. Twenty nineteen? Yes. Wait. All right. Thank you again. And simple. Ward. Thank you, everybody. Bye. Scott. Yes, but you do a second song for us, ok, tell us about it. Sure, i’m going to do a song from my most recent album, the records called traveling companion, and this song is called the goodbye road to baltimore, and if you check out the recording studio recording of it, you’ll actually hear my wife sing ing on it as well. She sings the back-up for so little fun. Fact. Okay, andi, the name again, it’s called the goodbye road to baltimore. He was supposed to be good bye to the road of baltimore, but i was really tired of the time, and i wrote it down wrong. And then i decided that was better than what i had in mind. So it stuck. So here we go. Wait, sunrise on ninety five, four thousand seven times on each day, wass the day that you’d come out on time, but the gas lads on and you got a stone on the good bye, rhoda ball. More driving south through the move. A lot of use turn shore. If the winds at back in law always be perfect in awhile and care sand free, no way riza come to blows me on signs. Making friends with white daughter lives takes a laura hero to make it this far. Sometimes you’re not sure which one you want on the good bye road ball, more driving south through them, a lot of the eastern shore, and if the winds at you back, it will always be perfect in a wild and careless and free. How do you know? Oh, your new with five is in more than the distance to the mirror. Life, you’ve been offgrid soul. Is it just tio hyre get back, all right, dahna son runs on ninety five, or whatever makes you feel alive, maybe tomorrow’s the day break through and, if not someone’s, waiting for you on the good bye road ball. More driving south through them, a lot of the eastern shore. But if the winds at you back a long way, wild and careless, perfect, wild and careless, perfect in a wild care, less and free way. Dahna absolutely perfect and wild and careless and perfect and wild and careless, careless and free at some point in that song i close my eyes and i thought, who does he sound like? Enough? James taylor that’s me altum they will happily take that. Thank you. Agree? Yeah. He’s. Amazing. He’s. Amazing. Schnoll yeah. That’s says my wife amy’s here. She also says billy joel oh, and there’s. Someone in the background, there’s a there’s, an intern there’s, a studio in turn up to the mike nobody, nobody is an anonymous on non-profit radio. Just tell us who you are. Studio in turn reminded. Remind me, please. Hi, my name’s, darryl. Hi, my name’s. Darryl beaker, can you see me up? There we go. Yes, your intern. Right. You have the studio. Thanks for being here. All right, no problem. Thanks for having me. Pleasure. You’re in the background there on facebook and we can’t have that, you know, just like who’s. That guy back there. Okay. I think we got some time for more stories. Okay, reasonscall little hasn’t touched fixing the facebook frame there. Okay, um, yeah, we got first. We’ll take a break, though. Actually. Tellers. I have a new company. Tell us moughniyah lll quote tell us, provided us with great customer service throughout the initial process and that same top notch service has been provided through our working relationship. Additionally, tell us was able to offer us the best pricing and to top it all donates fifty percent of the processing fees to the charity of our choice. There is no doubt that teller is one of the best companies to partner with the credit card processing and quote you, khun b that charity of choice that’s the whole point. Watch the video at tony dahna slash tony tell us now clear my ralph, we got time for some more stories. I’m going to read one. Okay, can i think i think they could jump. Okay. This is from let singleton she’s been she’s been a fan of the show for a long time. Then she she was on hiatus for a while. But national back then that singleton thanks to the Job training partnership act of 19 eighty two summer after i turned sixteen, my very first job was administrative clerk at a crisis center as a disadvantage you, it was eye opening, life altering experience. Since then, i’ve spent my entire adult life protecting and supporting people’s dreams, volunteering and working to improve the lives of others. I’ve been fortunate to leverage that passion to build a well rounded career in non-profit and small business operations, and i now serve as the vice president of operations to support the partnership for southern equities mission to promote racial and economic equity in atlanta and the american south. And then she says, tony, congratulations on your eighth anniversary of four hundred show, thanks for all you do to strengthen the other ninety five percent. Well, thank you and thank you for sharing your story. Thanks for being so loyal to non-profit radio i’m glad you’re back got your back. Would you, uh would you be kind enough to read one clear my love to read one. Okay, there you go. This is from joanne telser. Freyre literacy chicago. I have lived and worked in france, egypt, pakistan and guitar where i learned many of the skills i need today, i started out simply teaching english and ended up becoming academic director in a french language school training sl teachers. I also spent nine years as a journalist on q b, s radio q tv television and for the newspaper, the peninsula and guitar, where i learned about how to communicate clearly and effectively so very important. Everything i’ve done in my professional life has led me to what i do today. Reading has always been a passion, and i’m thrilled to help other people enjoy the written word and that’s joanne from literacy chicago. Thank you so much for your lovely story. Thank you, joined she’s, a program manager, i believe literacy chicago. Yes, thanks, joanne, she emailed me. She mailed me that two days ago. Wei had, of course, we just add any sample ward on on ten ceo here’s, somebody who works for and ten she’s there, i think, finance, so she says it. Okay, patty carlin carlin from n ten. After working in mental health research, hearing the experiences of the participants compelled me to do something to help them. I became director of a peer support organization and it’s been non-profit ever since as the finance director for in ten, i’m living the non-profit dream, patty carlin, nice story, there’s. Uh, like if she was on, i would like to probe a little more hearing the experiences of the participants. You know what? What what was it about? What were they doing? What was she seeing that that compelled her would go a little. I’d like to probe battle it more, you know? I mean, this is a real story. This is fun, cholera there on here. I’m gonna nominate this one for a prize, would you? Would you read? You read this one from mildred devo, devo, founding director of pen parenthesis i have always been an artist first a singer than an actor than fiction writer, i started a reading siri’s to disprove the stereotype that people give up creative careers when they have kids. It was a smash we were booking authors a year in advance who wanted to read read for us to shatter the stereotype, people told us it changed their lives. A lawyer in new york city started attending the salons she heard of these writer lee stories and was moved. She offered to sponsor us to her firm to give us counsel probono to become a non-profit accepting her generosity was the first step to creating pen parenthesis. Five oh one c three devoted to helping writer stay on creative track after starting a family. We’re going on ten years that you know, that’s, a very specific mission, but really cool, she goes on to say, i’d say starting a non-profit was a win all around my work, encouraging other parents to maintain focus on their creative careers inspires me. To keep on creative track. That’s, mildew, devo. Founding director at penn parental. All right, mildred. You’re gonna get a pound of cure coffee sent to you. And she started her own non-profit i mean, that’s, that’s, that’s! Not that easy and regular non-profit yeah, yeah, and around writing. You admire that? Totally like communication arts short. Would you be good enough, teo? Read for us again? What? What? What? The mission of kira coffee is to remind mildred milled a building that she’s going to get well. Mildew. You want some coffee and it’s provided by kira coffee directly connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of cura, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are a direct trade company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cura coffee, dot com that’s cura coffee, dotcom. Thank you. Thank you. I love that cure. Coffee mission that’s. Awesome. That is also, um we, uh, hold that. One more story we got. We got maria simple on the phone. She’s? Uh, yes, maria simple. That she’s. Here. Yes. Hello, maria. Simple. How are you? I’m doing well. How are you, she’s? Our prospect research contributor, of course. Are the rounds out? Rounds out our our triumvirate of of contributors. She’s, the prospect finder. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and at the prospekt finder and maria, you, uh, write your show. She’d along first time you were on our twelfth show. Twelfth show. Here he goes. Our first one was your first one was october first, two thousand ten way had just started in july of two thousand ten. Thank you, maria non-technical. I’m thrilled that you asked me for for participation in that first show and and all the subsequent shows as well. Yes, i am too. I’m grateful to you. You know, you spend so much time thinking about topics emailing, you know, we go back and forth. Then you come on the show, you share your experience and wisdom in prospect research, you know, for the benefit of our listeners and small and midsize shops. And i’m very grateful to you. Very grateful all these years. Thank you so much. Oh, you’re very welcome. And congratulations to you and the entire team that, uh, has really, as one of your other listeners said, really participated. And every week, coming up with a terrific content for the other ninety five percent that’s what we’re about. Thank you. Now we just read milton devos. Story and milled is goingto win the coffee from cura coffee. She e mailed me something. Quote, any show with maria? Simple is a show worth listening to forever. How about that? How about that? That’s, a testimonial? Who put that on your web site, maria. Thank you. You know that building devo that’s? Amazing. Congratulations for that man. Awesome. She’s using to you. Well, all right, all right. So i know you’re gonna be on. You’re gonna be out in a couple weeks. Going pre recording next week, maria simple. But, you know, until then and after then one. Thank you so much for all your contributions to non-profit radio over. You know, eight years. Really remarkable. Thank you so much. Thank you. And a shout out to all of you in the studio today. Great show. Thanks, brandon. Thank you. Thanks, maria. We’ll talk soon. Okay. Um, here’s sam will let me know if anybody else. Way chat. Good job, chad, chad. Okay, i was chadband is on, and we have a major announcement to make a major announcement for the four hundred show. Like we have a new sponsor, and it is chadband boyd’s company. Chadband welcome to non-profit radio. Hey, thanks, tony. Glad to be here and, like everybody else, congrats on the four hundred show that a huge milestone provoc a podcast before and to do four hundred shows. We’ve got to leave that. Thank you, man. Thank you, and welcome to the non-profit radio family. You’re you’re ceo of text to give dot ceo and a new new sponsor going to starting next week. Sponsorship that’s, right, that’s, right, we’re started, yeah, glad. Glad to be a sponsor, because you’re you’re doing mobile, giving for small and midsize non-profits and, uh, that’s, our core that’s that’s, who we produce the show for week after week. So listeners going to hearing from you and from for me, you know, promoting onboarding text to give that ceo and for now, and this is going to be continuing if if you text npr that’s november, papa romeo in alphabet, in military talk, you talk hoexter npr tio four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Then you’re gonna get more info on text to give and there’s a special offer for listeners. Is that right, exactly right, you gotta correct, okay, all right, we’re doing so good, we’re doing good so far, okay, i got the got the first yet the first announcement done. The first announcement, correct, all right, chad. Oppcoll you want to say a little bit about text to give that ceo? Yeah, yeah. So, um, we are a mobile first donation platform, the text enabled. So, you know, you text them to make your donation, and our thing we’re trying to do is break down the barriers e-giving to make you know it really easy for donor to give to small and non-profits out there. So perfect for your target audience. Okay? And as i said, listeners will be hearing about it. Week after week will be, we’ll be shutting you out. And, uh, and again, chad, i thank you so much for sponsoring non-profit. Is there some, like triumphant music? Kottler is good. Yes, something triumphant for a brand new sponsor wave. That’s the fanfare. Thank you, scott. Now now, yeah, eleven. Thank you again. So much. Thanks for being thank you and welcome. Welcome to the show as glad to be here. Thanks, tony. All right, chance along. Wei have one more story i got get time for. Okay. It’s from jeff. Jody, lighthouse counsel. My parents set the example of being involved in the community. So this is the parents e-giving volunteering and leading in college, i was part of my first campaign raising funds to restore the historic home of a debate society. I began to volunteer at the colleges advancement office. I moved up while working in a major medical center. My boss volunteermatch volunteered me to be chair of ah, march of dimes chapter. So i went from being a very young board chair to becoming a very young ceo for most of georgia, either working in the arena on loving it ever since. Jeff jody from white house counsel neo-sage podcasting with beacon podcast. We gotta wrap it up. Okay. I want to thank. I want to thank scott stein. That scottie. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you for having me and getting congratulations on four hundred. My pleasure. Thank you. And you you fill the room with an energy playing. Really? They love it. Glad to do it. Claire miree off our creative producer. Thank you so much for tony was great to be here on the four hundred show. I can’t wait to be on the fourteen hundred forty. Thank you so much. Thank you. Twenty ninety eight. Oh, my god! What? And also thanks tio teles shanklin huge tomb chadband void jeanne takagi, amy sample ward marie a simple thank you all for being with us were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven end technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing by legacy piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com bye tellers credit card payment processing to pass of revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give text npr for for for nine, nine, nine for info. If you missed any part of today’s show it’s your life, i watched it clear myer off sam lee woods is the line producer show social media’s by susan chavez thiss music is by scott stein on mark silverman is our web wiz a special shout out to mark silverman he’s working for me for ten years on, i’ve never shattered him out on the show with the closing credits. I don’t know why it’s terrible, i know alistair, you federally never i’m doing it now i’m doing it now! He’s our web is mark silverman, so remark dahna mom, you with me next week for non-profit medio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out on be great. Great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Good, you are listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Fired-up comics, movies and pop culture at large. What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dulled, your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio. Dot latto. You’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Nonprofit Radio’s 400th Show

It’s coming up on July 27th! Live music, giveaways, all our contributors & sponsors—and you! Tell us how you got into nonprofit work & be part of our 400th show forever! The 2 best stories get read on air & win a bag of Cura Coffee. Share your story here or with #NonprofitRadio on Twitter.

Nonprofit Radio for June 1, 2018: Tech Mindfulness & Fringe Benefits Trigger UBIT

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Beth Kanter, Carrie Rice & Meico Whitlock: Tech Mindfulness
Our Nonprofit Technology Conference panel wants you to avoid technology burnout or overcome it if you’re already there. They have mindfulness advice for your entire office, your teams and you. They are Beth Kanter, Carrie Rice from Carrie Rice Consulting and Meico Whitlock of Mindful Techie.

 


Gene Takagi:
 Fringe Benefits Trigger UBIT
Tax law now requires your nonprofit to pay unrelated business income tax on parking and commuting expenses you provide for your employees. Our legal contributor, Gene Takagi, shepherds you through the new land. He’s principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law firm.

Gene Takagi

 

 

 

 


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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of zoho iq andthe assis if you stung me with the idea that you missed today’s show tech mindfulness our non-profit technology conference panel wants you to avoid technology burnout or overcome it if you’re already there, they have mindfulness advice for your entire office, your teams and you. They are beth cantor carry rice from carry rice consulting and miko whitlock of mindful techie and fringe benefits trigger you b i t tax law now requires your non-profit to pay unrelated business income tax on parking and commuting expenses you provide for your employees. Our legal contributor, jean takagi shepherds you through the new land he’s, principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm i’m tony, take two, show your gratitude. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue. Stream tony dahna slash tony tello’s here’s our panel on tech mindfulness welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc you know what that is? It’s the two thousand eighteen non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in new orleans. This interview, along with all our eighteen, ninety si interviews, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are beth cantor carry rice and miko whitlock welcome all three of you. Thanks for having us. Our pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you very much. Carrie with cantor is master trainer, speaker, author, blogger and her latest book is the happy, healthy non-profit carry rice is principal at carry rice consulting, and miko whitlock is founder and ceo of mindful tiki. All right, your workshop topic is had a conker technology distraction and burn out and be more present for yourself, team and organization. All right, that’s pretty lofty presents. I feel like starting right in the middle. Carrie, we’re not so president so often, are we? Well, we broke up our session into our presence for ourselves, our presence for our team and our presence. For our overall organization, that was my focus was really about what are we doing to make it possible for those of us who aren’t members of the paid staff necessarily to remain present for the organization in a way, that’s not pushing them past their use of technology in a mindful way that to their own benefit as well as for the organization. Okay, so so each of you, i guess, has has ah, part of this three tiered presentation. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. So then carry is the organization, right? Isn’t in the organization. Okay, the host needs some notes to keep this straight. And beth was yours. Climb the we the wean? Yes, ourselves that we being of teams or internal organization staff working together. Okay. And, miko, what is your part of this? The eye, the individual? Oh, you’re the individual. Okay. Okay. So how do beth and carry distinguish the two? The two years of years the organization so you’re outside the organization, extra marries outside the organization and remaining being present. And you’re here in the internal. Okay. Got it. Yeah, i do. Alright. So far. I hope i don’t lose it. I got it? Okay. We’re also trying to overcome tech burnout. You’re we’re all concerned about tech burn out what’s the trouble here, rico? Well, the trouble is twofold. So one is what i described his intention deficit disorder, where we have a lack of clarity about what it is. We’re actually focus on it in a particular moment. I don’t think that’s a crazy coin. I mean, i think that’s out there is an attention deficit disorder. Intention? Oh, intention. Attention. Oh, well, i’m glad i okay. Intention. Definite deficit disorder. I’d yes idea. Okay. I made that clear. Yes. And so part of the work i do is around people to take a step back and really reflect on what it is that you’re trying to do in particular the context of a non profit organization, what’s your role. And what are you pushing in terms of the actual mission and the outcomes for this one aspect of it? The other aspect of it is that we have to recognize that the technology is designed in such a way that is intentionally draining our attention. Right? So is, you know, we have push notifications that are set up by default, for example. For social media, for our mobile devices. And we have to understand that that’s intentional. But they’re also ways for us to control that we can turn off those modifications. We canoe certain absent applications to regain our attention, to be more present. But those are sort of two aspects of it lack of intention and then also the intentional effort by companies to actually take and hold and keep our attention. Attention. Okay, thank you. And welcome back to non-profit radio. Thank you. And i talked in twenty sixteen and the other person on the panel who i spoke to in twenty sixteen was best cancer. We’re talking about your was then your new book? Yes. Ok. Healthy non-profit healthy non-profit, which is still you can still get it. It’s. Not like it’s out of print or anything. But in twenty sixteen, it was new. And your co author wass lisa sherman. He’s a sherman. Is she here? Not this year, but this year. Okay. And how is this work today? Different than what we talked about in twenty sixteen and happy, healthy number off it. Well, if we go back to that radio program in your archives, we talked about self care and taking care of ourselves and talk on a culture of well being. So this is a subset of it on dh specifically how staff working together can be highly productive unless distract less distracted and get their works done. And i think what we’re faced with is something called collaborative overload, which is back to back meetings, too many emails, too many platforms, and that keeps us from getting things done. So a lot of what i talked about is how could you be more intentional about your work together to combat this distraction? Okay, we’re cement wristing phrases that lack of intention intension deficit disorder, collaborative overload. Carrie, did you come with the special phrase? Welcome to non-profit a radio is very ous a newcomer. Welcome, i always surround myself with the best, so you’re you’re non-profit radio. Exactly. I’m a non-profit radio way with you and beth in mikko doesn’t get much better than that. Um, well, i come from a world where my branding is called empathetic non-profit management, which is basically that all the stakeholders of the organisation should be treating each other the same way that we treat the recipients. Of the services that we provide so the empathy that we have towards the poppies or the homeless people, we provide the same level of empathy tours, donors towards board members towards members that we’re looking at each of those groups through that same empathetic lens. And so by doing that, and then combining that with technology it’s about changing the expectation of what we do internally on our team or what we do is individuals based on the work that meeko is suggesting that we’re saying, well, maybe that doesn’t all apply to the external stakeholders who aren’t actually getting paid to do the work that we’re doing as professional does not okay, there’s a lot here, we’re gonna unpack it. I’m the remedial person on the panel, okay? Because you all have been thinking about this for years, or at least, you know, it’s, right? I mean, years or at least months in collaborating around this on the newcomer. Well, same way. Okay. Right. Well, ok. I want everyone thinking out of an average. Okay, on average are so you’re quick learner. So bring me along. Yeah. Be respectful. Okay. Uh, it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing they have a new paper, the digital donation revolution how do you keep up in our one click to buy amazon world? Can you use more revenue? A loaded question? The paper has five online fund-raising tactics proven to work and save money proven tactics you will find the digital donation revolution on the non-profit radio listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to tech mindfulness look, i don’t know where should we go? I want to start with the i’d like to start with the i actually down the end. Okay, i will start the individual. This the lack of intention this is all around helping us to stay focused right now so that we can be more mission successful ways all it’s all for the good of the of the of the social yes, there’s the societal good. But if we don’t bring it down to the if we don’t start with the individual, we can’t be maximally efficient in helping change the world. Yes, my yeah. Is that a decent contacts i put in an early yes, and so it it starts. I use a framework to people to sort of have ah place to go when they get distracted, right? So distraction is inevitable. So we’re talking about is getting a tool, a framework that they can walk through. It starts with understanding your why or your purpose. So why you showing up? Why are you committed to the work that you’re doing and then understanding based on your based on your wine, your purpose? What your actual goals? And you might have many goals that you’re focused on any point in time. And once you identify what your goals are, you actually prioritize because he recognized that with multitasking were actually mohr effectively be focused on a few things, that we’re not very good. Multi taskers, actually, are we even though we think we are what there’s actually wait, i thought we were not. Are we? Am i wrong? Well, you could say i’m wrong, i’m wrong. Why? In the technical sense, one way you could talk to this is not only me and nico, am i wrong about them? I’m walking about multitasking, i thought we were not really, truly you can’t really multi task exactly on what it when you’re doing two different task, your brain is just switching back between. The two on every time it switch treyz delays, and it also uses up brain cells and raises quarters all of cortisol levels that raises cortisol levels. So i was right. Okay, how come nobody said i was right? I am going to tell you that i think you’re right. It depends on the way to find monisha audiocasting so silent when i know for me i was seeking information that wasn’t next time, i’ll give it to him as long as it’s deserved. I mean, of course, it’s wrong if i’m wrong say, i’m wrong, but if i’m right jump on it, you know, it doesn’t happen that often. There you go, give credit where credit is, tio. Yeah, i actually like transitioning between projects, it’s just that for me i have to set aside an amount of time that works best for me to make those transition and that time is probably more than ninety second i s actually it is more than ninety seconds. Another thing about multi tasking is it takes you several seconds to re find yourself. We acquaint yourself with the task that you left, but you’re not going back to that could take his lorts nine or ten seconds for more, you know, when you’re like bouncing just quickly. I mean, it could take it could take ten minutes if you were writing something, you know, if it is a bigger piece or something. All right, because it’s not just the switching cost is also the cost of actually getting back to the place where you left off, right, and then take some time, they sort of speed up again, right? Right. Okay. Okay. All right. So good. We’re focusing on the on the you know what? I have a question for you, though. Sure. How does the eye how does what you’re describing relate to what carries part of this is she’s here you’re talking about carrie, talk about the individual as off site worker or as a as a consultant to the organization, but you’re also talking about individual. How do your how do your topics today differ? Well, i was so that they overlap, and so when we talk about why we’re talking about obviously, the individual right organizations are not just things they’re made up of people and the same thing when we talk about boards and other external stakeholders, we’re talking about people and individually way have to be able to show oppa’s out best cells so that collectively, when we come together, we can maximize our collective right, carrie okay, carrie where’s the overlap, right? So if someone were following amigos presentation yesterday about thie ability to say yes and to be able to say no with intentionality, then i want a board member who feels comfortable saying no to me because then when they say yes to me, i know they really mean it because i know that they have the skill set to say my schedule is too busy to be doing that right now or it doesn’t fit into my why of why i’m involved with this organization specifically. Okay. Okay. Um, i saw you nodding. You wanted you wanted anything with beth that’s about this promise not to swear this time you can go back, tio? No, it was twenty sixteen. Or was it fund-raising day in new york city, so, like twenty, fourteen or something? My boys just cracked fourteen and the two thousand thirteen thirteen remember better than okay. Two thousand thirteen fund-raising day n y c and best drop the f bomb, but she promised not to do now because i have affiliate stations that are governed by the fcc way, we can’t use the seven, we can’t use the seven words that george carlin had a lot of fun with, okay, okay, in any case, the whole context or yeah, long term listeners will remember best dropping everything twice in the same, the same discussion that certainly new visitors can go to your archives. Thirteen was only on one time that year, you find cantor at twenty martignetti dot com get the twenty thirteen appearance from fund-raising day in new york city. Okay, with that contact. Well, there’s something you want to add to the discussion. So, yeah, i think the collaborative overload is made up of four, four things the four piece and they’re not bad words. I don’t get what you don’t sow planning, planning priorities, being president and then people. So our relationships, interaction with staff and how we work together, communicate and collaborate on projects can lead to burn out in stress and certainly having, you know, just for example, let’s say my phone’s here, right? Yeah. This is like techno fear in ce and a bunch of people are doing this at a staff meeting it’s getting in the way of getting things done. We’re not giving each other our full attention and intentionality. I even considered that maybe you have a word for this cycle of insulting, well talking techno fear with techno parents? Yeah, insulting technology. A little offended you? No, i’m not talking in a meeting and people were picking up their phones. I’d rather they walk out this way. I think they’re going to the bathroom and i’m not tracking their time, so they’re gone for fifteen minutes do-it-yourself trouble may i’d rather they leave and come back and do it while i’m talking. But here’s the thing and it’s a lot of what i talked about in terms of the week. We have to be intentional about the way we’re working together. So if there are work and we’re being explicit at a meeting, we’re not checking our phones during the meeting or a technology unless it’s supporting the technology or else it’s a device free meeting. Okay, all right, so waken new can help with policies. Ground rules were also are also trying. Teo set norms that have to do with acknowledging riel life happening. So for me, some having someone come into a staff meeting and say, i’m waiting to find out if my father’s okay in the hospital. So i’m going to be looking at my phone during the meaning of exception exactly, but sat having that norm set so that someone is sneaking away to look at their phone and distracted from the meeting, but to be able to share with the members of the team. This is why i’m distracted right now i’m doing the best i can than everybody else khun give that person support and make them more successful. I agree, and then the knot intentionality around it. Here’s the reason why? Okay, okay were rough about halfway through and we we’ve talked around way talked about this. Why this is important. I want to spend time on strategies. What is our listeners? They’re in small and midsize non-profits how can they apply this work to them? Or if they are an outsider? Or maybe even a virtual employees carry reitman might you’re you’re part of this. I told myself i also applied a virtual employees. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, i don’t want to drill down through yeah, yeah, and specifically, when it comes to technology wellness with external stakeholders, my rule is simplicity is that sometimes the complicated solutions like using, for example, slack for us to keep track of our conversations for a lot of people who don’t work in a corporation or in an office or in a non-profit they don’t know anything about that program, so coming up with a simpler solution and saying, oh, let’s, just use google chat or let’s, just use text messaging or something like that it’s a simpler solution for an external stakeholder than an internal stakeholder like the teams that that’s talking about where you can actually say, okay, everybody needs to get up to speed on this particular technology, but it’s really hard to do that when it’s someone who is a donor or a boardmember or an external consultant or someone who’s working off site, so you’d probably rather i didn’t say we’re willing it down for the lowest common denominator. I prefer not to use that phrase whenever possible, but i will i’ll stick with simplicity because that people keep it simple, silly, i won’t say stupid keep it simple, silly. Okay, good enough. Miko, how about cem cem, drill down tto strategies. Teo, you know, overcome this tech burnout. So the first thing i will say is that not every solution is a digital technology solution. And so starting with just taking time to really get clear about your intentions and as i was saying, establishing norms in terms of policies around how you actually meet and how technology is involved or not in those meetings and using the time at the beginning of the meeting just run through really quickly. Hey, guys, this is what we agreed to. No cellphone today. Is everyone okay with that and running through it that way? Don’t think i was out, and that would be the time to raise your hand and say my father’s in the hospital. I do. I’m doing the best i can. Okay. Okay, so but if you’re looking for a technology solution, there are a number of aps out there that are really cool that really help you too be clear about their intention and to help you not to spend as much time on your device is doing things that aren’t moving your mission. Or your wife forward. So i think a moment for example, moment is an app that you can download for the iphone and for android moment, yes, moments ok? And it simply keeps track of how often you’re actually using your phone and how often you’re actually using different aps. And so you can look at the data that you’re getting from this and actually haven’t awareness. Oh, i’m spending two hours a day on facebook. I’m spending three hours, you know, looking at instagram like us five hours out of my day. Maybe i could be spending that time doing something else so that simple awareness could be oh, really begins to instigate a shift in behavior. Okay, okay. Strategy strategy for the we the team one one one that’s real popular’s tohave an email charter which includes things like what is your policy around after hours emails which can cause a lot of stress. It’s not so much the amount of time it’s this sense that you’re on call all the time it’s just it’s just the just the existence of it. Right? So having a really formal policy about, you know, for normal business email, i mean emergencies and disaster relief and all that it’s an exception way. Don’t expect youto at reply to your email right away between seven p m and seven a m sometimes it takes, you know, making sure that the senior leadership understands this and is modeling that behaviour as well. Yes, i know it does not. If not c e o on down buy-in none of these strategies, they’re going to be our gonna be adopted, right? Exactly those exceptions ceo is allowed to look at her phone during the meetings. The whole thing crumbles, right? I mean, we got nothing to bases, all right? And that came up in our session as well. Someone asked that my ceo’s looking at the phone all the time and what i know there’s so many things i want to implement, but i can’t and i ask that person well, do you manage a team? She said, my senior management won’t listen to me and i said, you managed to team and i said, yeah, just your team listen to you well, most the time they said we’ll create that culture on your team exact change. You can change the way we roll yet. Okay, okay. That came out and came out on the previous conversation today to try to think about what the the context of that was. Oh, it was trying to get buy-in from above, actually way. Label them buy-in bitches. Bitches is okay. All right, all right, all right. It is ok. Carrie and laura, i think they’re very good team. They’re very good together that used to be at the humane society of us. And anyway, we dump them two buy-in bitches, but one of them said, if you can’t, you can’t make them get get the buy-in above. Then manage what you can on your on your team. So same same idea and then show it off to you know, when your boss sees how productive your name is being, they say what’s the secret why’s your morale so good, why is your productivity so good? And then you’re able to say, because we we managed expectations, we set norms and you’re actually you’re managing up and there was another, another instance that came up with in this case, it was a consultant, mike. My clients expect me to respond to them right away. How do i address? That expectation and it’s kind of well, you. If you reply, you set up the expectations. We know you break the norms. Yes. You know, when that you teach people how to treat you essentially you notice that the boundaries early? Yeah, yeah. Beth is right the first time if you respond immediately, that’s that’s the rule and that becomes, however, if you reply with or if you maybe make make a call instead of replying with email, you know, i don’t i don’t do after hours. I don’t do after eight p m e mails or whatever. I mean, i you know, i have my own life. You said the boundaries of the expectations early and i ninety nine people out of a hundred going to respect that, i think. And i read it it’s in my consulting contracts, actually, that i only do work between norvig snusz hours. Okay, well, you’re the mindful technique. You if your story miss up and get off that shot his mic off. Great, but but i saw kivi, larry miller speak recently if bloom khan and she was talking about the types of roles where we want to be responsive to our members in real time, and so having there be certain members of your staff who have a different work schedule where they’re in the office only twenty five hours a week and then they’re available evenings and weekends fifteen hours a week to be checking so that if someone posts and says, oh my gosh, what do i do about my dog there’s someone who can respond in real time and say, we can’t help you with that? Why don’t you try calling this emergency number but that they don’t have to work full time in the office if they’re going to be available during alternative hours? That’s something that they actually negotiate with their workplace and the expectations air managed and that it actually works really well? Kibby it was an example that give you gave, and i thought that was it great way of thinking of it when we do want to be able to be responsive during weird times, that’s also has implications across time zones yes, yeah, likewise world where the people on the west coast what’s the expectation and carrying your you know, maybe you’re a consultant to a virtual employees on the west coast. Are you? Are you expected to be up and working at six a? M or do you work the hours of your zone? There are policies that cuts both ways, right? But what are what is our policy? That’s when it gets back to the normal? No, we need to go with the norms are what the ground rules are. Yeah. What’s bloom con it’s a balloon khanna blew the bloomerang unconference they do a column around here? Yeah, yeah. Bloomerang does an educational conference, which i know a lot of other vendors do as well so that their their clients are actually getting a lot of information as well as using excellent products, you know, across the board. Okay, that j lo j love involving bloomerang, i guess founded bloomerang. Actually, i think he’s been on the show. A lot of good people now and even more good people. Like i said, i only i only surround myself with the best company. All right, you can place carrie. You still got a couple minutes left. Let’s. Go back to yumiko. You got another another strategy. Tip tool. Best practice? Yes. So you can take control when you come to digital vices like your tablets in your mobile devices, you can actually take control so the defaults might be set to push notifications to you. For example, every time you get an email every time someone likes a post on facebook, but you can actually adjust those setting so that you’re not getting pained every time. Is it really necessary to get a get a email every time somebody likes a post your comments on it? Is it really? That is a really essential? Is it essential? I don’t, i think not. Right? Well, israel, i imagine that could be circumstances where i might be the case. If you’re managing social media on behalf of her brand, maybe it does make sense if you’re monitoring comments, but as an individual, maybe not if it’s, especially if it’s getting in the way of you getting meaningful work. Okay. Okay. Excellent. So look at those defaults. Yes, because the platforms want you engaged. Exactly. Uh, that’s how they make their money? Yes, yes. Yeah. Linked in with the with the what is like that you can you can vote somebody with you. Give somebody a endorsement. Endorsement? Yes, with the endorsement. Oh. My god, it’s rampant? What do i mean? That first of all, they’re meaningless. It’s just an engagement hook. Yes, i think. All right, we don’t need to be notified. I’m obviously i’m sure you’re sharing my bias. Uh, sorry. Okay, but its host. No, no smiling. Now, you don’t think it is all right. Listeners are accustomed to this he’s rants. Okay, another strategy. Ground of something else we can do within the organization. Uh, what? What could we do? Root. Nice reflection. Okay, right out. How are your liberation? Okay, so, uh, because the stress and burnout is what i call fired-up leadership, our fire drill culture, which is basically oh, my god. The grants to tomorrow. All hands in the conference room let’s, get this done and and kind of if there are fired rell’s, you know which happened? It’s having the discipline toe push the pause button and figure out, is there a bigger systems issue or something we can address toe? So we don’t have this fire drill next time. Yeah. Weekly fire drills latto program. No, no one. And it pulls people off their work. It creates a lot of stress. And if the leader has that fire drill, leadership, culture, it’s, the shrill voice. It just causes a lot of stress. Yeah, and that’s, not productive, it’s giving me. I got a chill. I mean, i got a i got a physiological reaction, just as you were, and i didn’t even do it. And full fire drill voice. She didn’t run around or anything. I think it is all my fault. Okay, excellent. Zoho what about you said you call that routinized reflection? Yes. Ok. Ok. What about what about in the organization? Dahna dahna i don’t know. A collective time together. Devoted collective time. That’s not devoted to work. Well, i was kind of other reflection or something. Well, well, two things too quick. Tips. Okay, so so there’s the five wise, which is an exercise. When the fire drill happens, sit down with the team, do a twenty minute brainstorm. Why did this happen? Oh, because we didn’t have the grant on the calendar. So why did that happen? Oh, well, we don’t have a grantspace started before you drilling down, asking why? Why? Why? Why so that’s a really good practice? We actually find out the root cause we’re right through all the symptoms, right? If your record and try to fix it, thie other one is because we have bad time management tools were not using time management tools or headline management, right? Well, saliva flying there that’s mine. You know, sex on that time i was on the table didn’t hurt anybody. Okay? And the other thing is having look ahead. Rituals and ah, latto non-profits do this many don’t just like looking at you probably do this because you’re scheduling what’s coming up the next quarter, the next month, one organization that i know they have stopped days and stop days are they don’t have any internal meetings that one day a month, it’s actually a development team, and they work on getting that deep thinking done the creative planning, finishing up the proposal they didn’t right so it’s not filled with all the meetings and deadlines and stress. Carrie, i’m gonna give you the last shot. Unbelievably, this is we’re almost done last last tool tip strategy tech. I mean, idea what what you got both of my tools would be empathy and empathy. It would be self empathy. It would be taking a moment and assessing yourself and looking at all the expectations you have for yourself and others have for yourself and then empathizing and really thinking about what you’re actually going through. And then every other stakeholder you work with just walking a mile in their shoes and just imagining what’s challenging them. And how can you make it easier for them as well? The empathetic, empathetic also. Thankyou. All three. Very much. This one flew. Flew. Sometimes i gotta pull teeth. This one. Not like that. Okay, they are beth cancer, master trainer, speaker, author, blogger carry rice principal carry race consulting mika whitlock, founder and ceo mindful techie. And you are with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc this interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with us. Need to take a break, wagner. Cps before they go beyond the numbers, they cover the essentials for you. Nine ninety and your audit. Check them out at wagner cps dot com. You get to know them in one dimension on the screen. Then go three d real life. Pick up the phone. Talk to the partner. You huge tomb. Or of course, you can use the contact page on the site. If you prefer. I like to talk to people. I like to get on the phone with you. Very nice guy. Not going to let you down. Wittner, cpas, dot com they will take care of you and your auditing. The end accounting needs. Jean takagi is coming up now. It’s, time for tony’s. Take two. I hit this last week, the ninety six year old secretary um i didn’t know who writes this crap. I didn’t hit the ninety six year old secretary she’s already dead. But i did mention this last week and i should write this. I need an intern to blame. She this woman gave eight million dollars to two non-profits in her will had very unassuming lifestyle all of our old life. Nobody knew that she was anywhere near ah millionaire, you know, able to give away eight million dollars in her will. Ah, my takeaway from this is in the video, the little teases i want you to show gratitude toe all your donors. She was not a donor, but she could have been. And she if she had been, she would have been very modest. So that’s sort of a tease. Take a look at the video at twenty martignetti dot com leinheiser love we got we got we got tons where’s it going to it’s going tio let’s start with cambodia and ottawa, canada you’ve been with us a few times. Ottawa welcome back. Germany, gooden tog gergen, india i’m sorry. I can’t i don’t know. How to say hello in indian but the live listener love goes to you brooklyn, new york that is not foreign att least not in my in my book, maybe from people in queens. It is taipei, taiwan ni hao where’s our china. No one in no one checking in from china today. Um, bring it back to the u s, tampa, florida, brooklyn, new york, multiple new york, new york get the to get the two borrows know staten island, queens bronx not checking in today. San francisco, california is with us washington, d c and new bern, new bern, north carolina. The live love goes toe all each and every live listener and the podcast pleasantries that the vast majority of our audience over twelve thousand listeners each week the podcast pleasantries to you. Whatever. However you fit it into your schedule, you binge listen. Six hours on a time on on sundays, pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections to our am and fm station listeners throughout the country. I’m grateful that your station carries us in your schedule and i’m grateful that you are listening. Analog analog will never die. I don’t care what anybody says analog is not going to die am and fm listeners affections to you now it’s. Time for fringe benefits trigger you b i t i i i can hear his heart beating it’s racing. He knows he’s coming in and he’s jean takagi he is managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Of course he’s, our legal contributor he edits the non-profit the popular non-profit law blogged dot com you should you should be bookmarking that are subscribing to that non-profit law block dot com he’s the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tak welcome back, team takagi. Thank you, tony, how are you? Hey, you’re coming in booming. I love it. I’m doing very well. Thank you. Thank you, it’s. Good to talk to you, it’s. Been it’s been some time? I think it’s it feels like it’s been too long. I don’t know what has been but it feels like it. Welcome back. Thank you so much. Great to be back, tony. Thank you. So we’re talking about ah, cem cem tax law changes one specifically regarding is narrow category of fringe benefits and you be i tv. Ah, unrelated business income tax. We haven’t even talked about this for quite some time years. So remind us what unrelated business income tax is. Please? Sure. I mean it’s a great starting point. Because, um, a lot of folks have never had to deal with it before. And i are going all of a sudden have to have to have to deal with it now. But generally speaking, the unrelated business tax is on income tax that’s imposed on unrelated business trade income, which is income from a trader business that’s regularly carried on. So basically, with the same frequency and continuity is for-profit would do it. And that’s not substantially related to the organization’s advancement of its own charitable or other five a onesie three purpose unrelated business taxable income. That’s what? What? The income tax is going to hit now that people call it. You bit right, cubine? Yeah. Cubine for unrelated business tax. The acronym? Yeah. I’m wondering why it’s not a bit. Because it’s it’s unrelated to not eun it’s, not eun related. So i was. As i was thinking about this, i may adopt a bit you can stick with. You but if you want to be a dinosaur but the trend is moving now because one data point creates trend. It’s now moving toward a bit. Okay, so, quite roll off the tongue is nicely, but it really doesn’t. I think it’s coming is better because it’s unrelated itt’s a it’s, a sin tactically, grammatically, you know. Ah, naturalistic. All right, um all right. So, wait. So we have taxes on we have in minor ways or in, in narrow ways has put it that way in narrow ways on tax exempt organizations because the irs says that they’re primarily tax exempt, right? That what’s up. Yeah, well, i think what they are, they’re tax exempt on income from donations and on income from related activities that those air activities that substantially contribute to advancement of their their charitable purposes, and we never look at how their profits are deployed. So if, for example, a social services organization runs the coffee shop that had nothing to do with job training or anything like that, it was just ah, they bought a franchise coffee shop and they were making money. But using all the profits to go back into the social service stuff. That’s still unrelated, so any earnings coming out of that business would be taxable. Okay, um, and this gets to the three pronged test you mentioned it’s, trader business regularly carried on and, uh, not substantially related to the organization’s exempt purpose. That’s. Right. Ok, ok, we may. We may come back to these because i want to i want to get to the crux of this thing, and then i wanted tear it apart a little bit. I have a lot questions about why, why we’re getting, why, why this is being imposed on us. It doesn’t seem to fit, so you’re going to help you, khun, help all of us out. Hopefully, other people are questioning this, too. Although it’s, too late, it’s not like this is a proposal, i mean, it’s, it’s. A done deal. You have to deal with this thing so so if you have a bit liability, then you have to calculate how much tax you owe to the irs each year. Is that right? That’s? Right? So you’re gonna have to pay now, it’s a flat rate of twenty one percent attack on your puppet and you have to file. Thank you, john. Thank you for that thousand dollars arm or of of the unrelated business taxable income you’re going to have to file form nine, ninety with the irs, so that goes along with your regular form nine ninety siri’s filing, and this is important because this is going to hit churches as well that otherwise don’t have to file nine nineties, but if they’ve got unrelated business taxable income of a thousand dollars or more now they’ve got a file in nine ninety and paid twenty one percent tax on it. Oh, very yes, very interested, right. Churches are exempt from the nine ninety requirement, but now they’re going to file this nine ninety t assume t is for tony handup pick up. Okay? Yes. Interesting churches were swept into the nine. Ninety requirement under this. All right, what? They’ve always say if they if they had over a thousand dollars about unrelated. They always had to file this. But we’re creating new sources of this. We’re gonna have a lot more organizations and that’s. Why it’s important for churches to be aware of it now as well. Interesting. Yes. All right. Let’s, let’s. Get to the crux of it. What is the new source? What are the new sources that we are here talking about today? New sources of of it. So this all stems from what’s known as the tax cuts and jobs act on dh that’s basically congress’s new tax act. So i think most of us and we on an earlier show we talked about the tax reform act that hit and started to apply as of january first of this year two thousand eighteen. So under this tack fact there’s several provisions that affected non-profit on tax exempt organizations and one of these had to do their several that applied to to the labbate unrelated business income tax. But one particular thank you. Thank you very much. When in particular that’s. Quite distressing. Is that now a qualified transportation fringe benefits that’s provided by an employer to an employee is going to be taxable so it’s not any income that the non-profit is receiving it’s, actually, for most of them, an expense that they’re paying for a fringe benefit for their employees. Um and all of a sudden now they didn’t have to last year, but starting this year, they have to pay tax on giving a qualified transportation prince benefit to an employee. Okay, now it sounds like you’re you’re ah, you’re consistent with my thinking because you just drive. It is distressing, and i didn’t see how it was income because typically pre-tax income, but all right, so let’s, let’s define what is a i guess the acronym is q t fbi? What is a qualified but i’ve drug in jail, so, you know, i’m not could put myself in jargon jail. What is a qualified transportation fringe benefit now that is going to trigger a bit under the tax law, so it would include things like any employer provided shuttles to work transit passes that that you might give teo your employees so that they can take the metro or whatever hyre transit that that they have to get, get to work and workplace parking. Zaf employers air providing any of these things to their employees? Not that they’re getting any income from it, but the expenses that they pay out. You’re gonna actually have to pay an additional tax on that now. Yeah, i can’t believe this. Well, it’s dis incentivizing mass transit because they’re going to get tax, the organization that gives you money toward your transit pass or pay, but gives you the transit pass directly. Uh, this is like it’s, like the global warming and climate change enhancement act. Dis incentivizing that’s a lot of levels. I can’t believe the dis incentivizing mass transit usage by taxing the benefit. Ah non-profit employer giving it to employees it’s ludicrous. So i’ll give you a little bit of their ration. Now, if you call this a restless since jean so calm of the calming voice as i’m ranting. All right, go ahead. Yes. Give us the rational please. They’ve taken this away as a deduction from for-profit sa’s. Well, so before a for-profit employer that provided thes qualified transportation bridge benefits, upleaf shuttles and transit classes, workplace parking could deduct it. Yeah, before they pay income taxes on their net income, that kind of made sense, right? You know, it’s an expense to run your business and you’re trying to do do a good thing. Yeah, trying to attract attract labour that may come from a distance, so you’re helping them pay for or offset the cost of their commute? Yep. Then durand non-profits for-profit do not get teo. They lost that deduction. They lost that as of this year. So that’s part of the text you no cuts in jobs act so that that’s one area of new revenue for the government is despite the tax cuts. This is one area new revenue that businesses can’t deduct this and non-profits have to be taxed on it. So it’s kind of ridiculous, but this sweeps end a ton of charities, small charities included and churches that have no unrelated businesses they’ve never had to understand. You bet or a bit because i’ve never had any unresolved business better elearning income so that they would never file the nine, ninety they would never worry about paying this type of income tax, and all of a sudden they’re not making any more income, but they have been providing parting to their employees. Yeah, park and now i’m in transit. If they don’t file the night nineteen, they don’t pay the tax and they could get it, you know, with interest and penalties as well. What’s the rationale for equalizing corporate and non the corporate and nonprofit sectors. Why? Just because one loses a deduction, which also is a disincentive, teo mass transit and commuting it’s equally. But, you know, removing that deduction for for the corporate community is unequal disincentive tio teo taxing it on the non-profits but where’s, the what’s, the reason for having two equivalent make these two equivalent way if we remove the deduction for corporations and we have to, we have to tax it on the on the non-profit sides like they’re competing. What? What? What? What’s the rationale for trying teo equalize thes yeah, it’s a good question, tony, and i don’t know that i have a policy answer just no that’s, basically, that their explanation is to put everybody on the same playing field. But this doesn’t make sense. Non-profits inc organizations, because they’re doing public good, that businesses aren’t required to do so. I don’t get it either. All right, thank you. Let’s. Take a break, gene. Tell us moughniyah lll have a talisman eal ly elementary school is receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company one of our parents owns likely the easiest donation source we have ever secured. End quote, monthly passive revenue that’s what? Tell us we’ll get you the easiest donation source ever think of people who are close to your organization? Who owned businesses who would be willing to switch their credit card processing. That’s what it’s all about. You get passive revenue indefinitely. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now, let’s. Go back to fringe benefits that trigger labbate with jeanty jeanty. That could be like you could be a deejay. Or so our rapid jeanty. You like it? Jean d’you did a rap for us once. Didn’t you think you write a rap ones? I’ve written a few you well, i only labbate really perform. Yeah, you did one. You have many. But you performed one on the show like jean t gene t the gene gene t the law machine. Remember, jean, you could be ging t the legal of machine. Remember rum? What was that with chuck barris? Oh. Gosh! Oh, gosh. Oh, don’t got anything geever gene, gene, the dancing machine. Oh, yeah, i remember him. You’re going to be your gene gene the law machine. Gene gene, the law machine gt. All right, jean jean don’t think i’m going to forget this either. Gene gene, the la mission. All right, gene t i love it. Um, okay, so you’re you’re is as dismayed as as i am i i just i cannot see them. Well, i’ve ranted i can’t see the rationale for the equivalent ing equalizing the corporate and nonprofit sector dis incentivizing mass transit. All right. And then so let’s go through. I mean, how does this work in the in the three pronged test? Trader a. You bit a bit of it. I made a mistake. Labbate is has been, um um created when it’s something that’s ah non-profits carrying on a trader business that’s regularly carried on and not substantial related to the organization’s exempt purpose. I mean that this is not even doing this for-profit it. So, it’s not it’s a trader of business. This is not a profit. This is a fringe benefit, employees. How does this fit? And there’s no. Income generated either so it doesn’t fit. They just threw it in because there’s a system of taxing non-profit that has nothing to do with prince benefits, but they found a way to teo just stick it in, and it doesn’t fit your right so that part of the problem, although in one aspect what you said was true, you know, this is the law now, there’s, not much we can do about it, but in another part we can actually do something about it. So while the basic laws are there, there’s just a lot of open questions and a lot of misunderstandings and ambiguities and no way to understand exactly where it applies and where it doesn’t apply in certain circumstances and a whole bunch of organizations, including the national council non-profits the american institute of e p, a american society of association executives are calling on the treasury department, the irs to say, hey, don’t implement these, you know, laws yet because we have no clear guidance and we don’t have a way to tax plan for this because we don’t understand where it applies and where it doesn’t apply, and you’re saying it already takes effect. As of two thousand eighteen, the laws were rushed through without understanding. There are no regulations yet, so treasury hasn’t built regulations yet, right? So how do they enforce something where nobody understands exactly what it means? Our eddie, these organizations challenging the existence of this prevision or they’re just asking questions about it. Do you know? Well, they’re asking for a delay and implementation until there are regulations that are promulgated and regulations require comments. And so it takes a while to get done. But there are so many open questions, i don’t know that they can change the law in and of itself on left congress to become the law, but the regulations that are underneath it and we can discuss some of the open questions that are out there, they’re asking people to comment to the irs directly. And you, khun, you know, if you googled irs comment and tax forms ah, and you put the form nine ninety it’s it’s on ly basically email form nine ninety and say delay. You know, uh, imposing any liability on us until you tell us exactly what the rules are you all right? Now we will get to some. Of the questions i do want to make it clear that we’re not talking about employee’s losing the income exclusion for these benefits, right? That that remains intact. That’s that’s, right? So employees that get these fringe benefits don’t have to pay tax on it. So it’s pre-tax you’re not losing your pre-tax benefits up to two hundred sixty bucks a month for commuting and two sixty month for parking. That’s not right, that’s not employers that are paying for it are now being advised by some of their accountants. It doesn’t fit into their budget additional tax cut that benefits. Yeah, because the tax rate is twenty one percent, right? Correct. So twenty percent of two, sixty is fifty two. So this is costing if you’re giving your if e-giving the max for either commuting or parking, of course will be one hundred for if you’re doing a max for unemployed e you know, this could be roughly fifty bucks to one hundred bucks per employee in tax. Well, it will be over a year, you know, five hundred twenty bucks expand on this. All right? I was just doing it by the month. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. One hundred sixty bucks per person? Yeah. Additional tax on the non-profit. So if you have ten employees that you’re doing it for that over five thousand on dh that’s, a modest size non-profit right? All right, um okay, so you have to. So what? What’s what’s your guidance before we get to the questions? What do you recommend? Non-profits do gene be the voice of reason while i’m ranting, please? Well, first you got to understand how many employees you’re actually providing these fringe benefits to and do do you think that they are covered by the tack? So there are these open questions that that we haven’t started to talk about yet, but open questions. So if you’re providing parking transit passes or shuttle bus service is tio any of your employees consider how much tax you may have to pay on it, then you’re gonna have to figure it out in your budget. Can you continue to provide all of these fringe benefits and pay the tax, or do you actually have to do something else? And one of the other things he might do is take away the fringe benefits and just pay employees the income. For them to do with themselves now, that’s not a very attractive option toe a lot of employees. So it’s more than just the money you’re gonna have to think about in doing this. But those discussions have to be had now and comment to the irs and say we can’t we don’t even know how to plan for this until you tell us what the rules no. Yeah, because giving them giving it to the employees of straight income obviously raises their income tax liability. Exactly. All right? Okay. Any any, any more guidance how to proceed or that that exhausted? But i think that’s all the guidance i can give now, but the one area that we’re really uncertain about it, the whole parking area, okay? What’s going to pass the question and stuff on shuttle buses, which not too many small non-profits would do it’s pretty clear, but parking is like it’s just so full of opening that we don’t know what that means. Like suppose you suppose you offer parking too. Ah, guests of your office, you have a parking lot next to your building. My boys just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old building. On dure employees use that, too. What? What? What does that mean? Yeah, that that’s. One of the questions that we have is if the parking is available for anybody for free, then presumably allowing your employees to use it to shouldn’t count. But what if there are a limited number of spaces? So so we know that really, the general public is not using those bases. Or what if the spaces say employee parking only. So those are some of the questions that we have about parking. And what if you know what if the building is is owned by the employers? That doesn’t cost them anything to provide the parking. How do you figure out what the cost is? And how much do you pay tax on it? A lot. A lot of open questions. Okay. Uh, yeah. Um all right. So should we suppose were in that situation. Suppose we do. We we have a parking lot. We owned the building and the lot. Um, we should be talking to our tax adviser. Yeah, but times are tax adviser, and you ask for help again. Delay implementation of the rules. The irs should tell us in treasury. Department should tell us exactly when it applies and when it doesn’t apply, and right now they’re not saying anything because they happened figured it out yet either. So ah, and one more area i wanted to touch on sometimes it the charity isn’t really even providing the benefit themselves because it’s subject to this salary reduction, so basically the employees saying reduce my salary by two hundred bucks and, uh uh, you know, because i want to use that for parking is a pre-tax benefit, so the charity isn’t even paying for it, but the irs seems to have told us at least unofficial coyness when when officials, you know, told attendees at a big conference a couple months ago that the irs would impose you bit on these payments. Employers are made, you know, it’s coming from the boys themselves, it’s over jean okay, committed to this and and what aren’t there some some towns that require ah pra vision of transit benefits? And so aren’t there circumstances where employers might be doing it? Because it’s required by law? Yeah, and that’s so it’s not really a fringe benefit? Is it it’s a required benefit that you have? To give in new york city, washington, d c san francisco shot out. I’ll tell those cities and then the non-profits there you you’ve got some issues. Those are places that require require the benefit is a pre-tax salary reduction. Oh, come on. I mean that. Well, yes, clearly this has not been thought through, but that has to be an exception. That’s that’s not a fringe benefit. That’s ah that’s following the law that’s a legal requirement wrecks that are going to make that clear. But right now, we’ve just got the word of one official that says yes, they’re going to oppose you bit on it. And so that’s the best guidance we have right now. But we have no official guidance labbate gene of it. Um, did we know this was in the in the tax law? I know the thing was enormous. Nobody in congress read it. That was notorious. It was too big to read. It was rushed through. Didn’t have those the hearings that air routine and major tax revisions. Do we know this was buried in there? We well, only those who are paying a lot of attention. I knew it was in there. But it wasn’t the biggest problem that charity, you know, we’re facing. There are other issues with bill, so this particular provisions didn’t get a lot of attention until more recently. Ok, i see. Yeah, there were. There were concerns about. Taxes on large endowments, which we did get on the very high end right there. Remember, there was discussion about whether churches would be exempt from the the politicking. That’s, not the right word, what’s. The help me actually election nearing election, hearing that that still is a big concern for a lot of people that it’s been put into another bill again that that the irs can’t enforce against five twenty three’s, not just churches, engaging an election year. Oh, that’s in a bill that’s in the bill now it’s in the bill. Next. Oh, so and they’re certain factions of congress that continue to slip it into all sorts of bills because there’s a very strong republican platform buy-in that that is to really destroy, and i think that was president trump’s words destroy the johnson amendment, which is the part of five a onesie three that says five, twenty three can’t engage in election hearings, can’t, you know, become partisan political actors? Yeah, right, the johnson amendment yes, we’ve heard a lot about that. All right? Um, we got like, we’ve got to wrap it up so jean, i don’t know if the next time i talk to you will be ah, we’ll be the four hundredth show on july twenty seventh. Maybe we’ll get you in june. We’ll try. I’m not sure, but thank you very much for today and i look forward to talking again. That’s so do i, tony. Very excited. Teo, join you on the four hundred show as well. Cool. Congratulations, creek. Preliminary. Congrats. Thank you again. He’s at g tak e ta ke subscribed to this thing for pete’s sake. Non-profit law block. Dot com read it subscribed to it next week. Henry tim’s with his new book, new power. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio weather. Cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and tell us. Credit card in payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dot mm slash tony tell us. A creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be glory. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving geever e-giving hello, this is bruce chamois, coast of the web design and technology coach. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 19, 2018: New Tax Law & Your 2018 Plan

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Gene Takagi: New Tax Law & Your 2018 Plan

Gene Takagi

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act includes sweeping changes that impact nonprofits in fundraising and beyond. Our legal contributor and the principle of NEO, the Nonprofit and Exempt Organizations Law Group is Gene Takagi. He walks us through what you need to know.

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-cash over radio big non-profit ideas to the either in ninety five percent, i’m your athlete named oh, i’m glad you’re with me. You’d be speaking with a phony a if you lost the ability to tell me that you missed today’s show new tax law and you’re twenty eighteen plans, tax cuts and job back include using changes that in fact non-profits in fund-raising and beyond legal contributor and the principle of neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group gene takagi. He walked us through what you need to know. Authorities take you twenty eighteen plans all this month. Reported by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enables tony dahna i made last pursuing and by wagner citing you beyond the numbers piela dot com hello. Starting credit card processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna a blast. Tony. Hello. What a pleasure to welcome back scotty. For the new year. He is managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the phenomenally popular non-profit law block dot com. And if the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer at ease, happy. New year team happy new year, honey. Great to be back. The pleasure. Thank you for joining us in the month of january and talking about the monster new tax law and how it impacts non-profits twenty eighteen. Um, what? Just for the years of the details? What? What? What? What have you seen in terms of non-profits reaction community reaction to the fact? Well, i think monstrous wasn’t a bad term. Teo described from the perspective of non-profits i think overwhelmingly non-profits leaders who are kind of aware of all of the details provisions that may affect them think it’s a really terrible teo that’s blackbaud either, in some cases, a lack of understanding of what non-profits charities duitz for the country and in some cases, just think that there’s a lack of care, but sadly, it’s not a very good bill and non-profits me to be aware of what? What about them? Okay, uh, let me explain. Listen, if you were working on oddly rigged system, were going through my phone so there may be some delays. Naralo echoes so bear with us there. I want to get this done miles. Jean and i are in the studio. Are available. And you need to ask you if you could remember, speak up a little bit louder than usual. Okay, well, okay. Thanks very much. Um, yeah. Uh, you you believe the conventional and widespread with belief that most of his tax bill is benefiting the wealthy one percent or one tenth of one percent. Yeah, i’m kind of in line with that. That frame of thought that ultimately the richest one percent will end up with by far the majority of the benefits of the tax cuts. And i heard someone. You’re the richest one tenth of one percent are gonna benefit from about sixty percent of the benefits of the tax cut that comes from robert ray’s shut in an article published by newsweek overviewing week early in january. So this is going to be the expected by twenty, twenty seven. A lot of the benefits that cruise teo little income and even lower income individuals made this here. There’s some temporary, uh, deductions and carrots that are given out, if you will, to make it seem like they’re getting to benefit from it, at least initially. And then those disappear. And by the way and deficit get larger there’s going to be a spending cut which made the that’s the social security, medicare and medicaid. I believe the republican congress is there in talking about that let’s call ryan and decrease spending on a social safety nets will increase the needs. Of course, charitable services, the decrease spending from the government and the government supplies about one third of the revenues for charity, so they get their job done through charities by e-giving grass and contact public services that decreased spend spending will mean that charities have less money to address ever increasing metoo duitz a bad results all the way around. Remind me what we talked about in the depths of the recession. In that case, individual giving head declined because unemployment was so high and because unemployment was so high the need, especially in the social services sector, were vastly increasing. Exactly that’s the problem with doing the same thing is that the cause of it is the cause of the individual e-giving decline is, uh, anticipated decline is different. All right, so what do you think we see in terms of brovey fund-raising and how it’s going to be impact, by the way? The send out the increase in the standard deduction, talk us through that. So, sure, but one of the big provisions that that affects everybody is that going to be a doubling of the standard in-kind almost doubling of this from about sixty three hundred fifty dollars to twelve thousand dollars for individuals and double that for married couples. For some people, they would say, you know, we’re getting a bigger deductions, you always taken the standard deduction, and that will seem great, although that’s just temporary, but there are a lot of potential deductions that have gone away, and that maybe means that a lot of people will actually end up paying more in taxes and the impact specifically the charities is that by doubling the standard deduction roughly, you know, thirty percent of taxpayers were ableto itemize their deductions, and only ida miters itemizers would get the benefit of the charitable contribution instructions, because that is one of the itemized deductions that are allowed, but from thirty percent of tax cares itemizing deductions once you double the standard deduction, it will only mean that a thousand five to six percent of taxpayers will now itemize or get the benefits of speeding says the level of the standard deduction by itemizing so basically, what you’re saying now is from thirty percent of the population that could have benefitted tax wise from a charitable contribution deductions lax here this year and going forward because this is already it’s, not a bill anymore. This is the law’s going forward, only about five percent of taxpayers can actually get a deduction for charitable contributions that that is meaningful in any way, so that goes into the so the estimate is that only about five percent of taxpayers will itemize going forward. Yeah, i think it’s about five stick percent going forward is that you going to be subject to some of something that happened, including with state taxes and some states trying to react to all of this as well and creating different measures that’s really hard to really get it, just sort of based on on current conventions, the joint committee on taxation of everyone you know from from the federal government believes that it’s going to be about six percent, five percent of taxpayers that are going to itemize from now on, all right and that’s down from, he said. From thirty percent historical yeah, so i thinking rough numbers are in ron numbers. I think we’re going from about forty six million taxpayers who itemized in two thousand seventeen will go down to less than thirteen on dh that dejected to result in twelve to twenty billion dollars per year, less charitable giving a credible e-giving is tied in part tax benefits. Now a lot of people don’t have tax benefits is their main reasons for giving but it’s fundamentally expect how much leftover incomes have, yeah does play a part in some people’s decisionmaking twelve to twenty billion dollars per year, again from the joint committee on taxation, and they’re estimating that’s going to cost two hundred twenty thousand two hundred sixty four thousand non-profit jobs lost, so okay, zoho all right, i hate to break it there, but what? We need to, um, let’s, pick it up right where we are right now, we need to take a break record they’ve got another testimonials quote, this is my first year, and we are a growing non-profits weinger gps was completely attentive and gave the impression that they were right next door and handling our review engagement even. Though we’re in different states, they made me feel like we were the only client they had and they were able to walk me through starting up our accounts, finishing our yearly nothing was too small of a pastor than tto handle. There are always available for questions, concerns customer service was exceptional, which is a rarity these days and greatly appreciated. I receive great advice and guidance for better business practices from a professional a while, feeling supported and generally cared for in the process, grantmaking piela really stood out as a partner and supported and generally cared for you just don’t hear that from hey ready. You need to check him out. Magnus dot com that’s not for tony to back-up. Oh, no! That’s! That’s! That’s! Time to go back through. Sorry, jean. How are you? I’m doing great. Okay. Let’s, let’s, continue where we are from. Where? From where we are. All right. Those are some pretty dismal sounding numbers now. Okay. You mentioned that charitable are with charitable deductions. Is not there is a lot of evidence that that that’s not the main reason that lots of people give because they get a child abduction. It’s because of their love of the world, yeah, you know. And i think that’s going to be the main reason why people give but there’s the entire industries, including the plan e-giving industry, is, you know very well that that that really considered tax benefits is part of the equation, and it might not impact what who they did, too. But it might impact how much they give. Yeah, now i know it is. It is a factor you all through this in other other changes that have come in the twenty years since i’m doing playing e-giving. I’ve always just stayed with the belief that taxes aren’t the main motivation. Yeah, i agree. Not the main motivations that we’re not seeing a reduction of, you know, fifty per cent of charitable chiming in it’s going to be more expensive of single digit Numbers maybe 42:5 percent production is in charitable giving, but again, that amounts to twelve, twenty billion dollars per year around two hundred twenty thousand one hundred sixty four thousand jobs latto because of that and on top of it, only job friends, yes. And that’s that’s really? I haven’t heard that member. Yeah, heard the iter dollar nasco hadn’t heard the job. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. So on top of that, we’ve got the other issues, you know, which is a kind e-giving issues well and that’s the state tax exemption durney so this affected very wealthy, but these state taxes being doubled up to eleven point two million dollars for an individual. And basically, this means that if you pass away and you have more than eleven twenty million dollars, you’ll have to take a very, very heavy a state tax to the government. Now it’s the limit before with half of that about five and a half million dollars to take, but now, going up to it’s doubling, which means again instead of e-giving charity people could give to their family members and said, and that may be a consideration for many of the wealthy were announced it’s going to be shielded by this this hyre state tax extension, and that again, is estimated to cost another four billion dollars for a year in charitable giving, so in percentage numbers of overall charitable e-giving again, we’re talking pretty small overall, but the impact of five percent let’s say e-giving reduction of percent translates to a lot of things that cherry’s can no longer. Yeah, now i hear you’re pounds let’s go back to that deduction. It sounds like this younger, sorry deduction increase the standard deduction increase. It sounds like this is going to be making potentially major donors maur important on more of a focused area than saying younger and, most likely, smaller donors. More modest owners who will no longer be able tio teo take the deduction claim the charitable deductions that but that made the donor’s become to the outside, even greater, even more selling in focus because they didn’t want to be more likely to be able to. Profit from the charitable deduction and which which you know, that charitable deductions reduces the cost of a gift because you’re getting your saving money in taxes, right? Precisely. And we’ve actually been seeing that trendy that even before these new laws and that they have to do with the widening income gap er, or wealth down that exists. So in two thousand fifteen, twenty four percent of taxpayers reported that they had made a charitable gift in their returns, according tto, not analysis of the irish state a decade earlier, so in two thousand five, that was thirty two, thirty one percent. There was already a reduction from thirty two, thirty one percent of taxpayers reporting charitable give twenty four percent reporting charitable give before this tax latto and basically it is because some of the lower middle income people just have less full income than they used to have, and they need to be needed to divide. And so this is going to be doing the same thing it’s not going to impact the wealthy so much unfavorably because they can still get higher than the standard deduction, not for low and middle income people, the increased defended. Deductions might seem like a good thing. They might be able to take more off than the use of the benefits will hooted. And there won’t be the value of making a charitable gift anymore. So the question will be is with that extra income will they make a charitable gift the middle income so our incomes or will they feel that this is unstable? Particularly because this is only a limited or temporary? A doubling of the standard deductions. You will go back to normal after a few years. So that’s that’s kind of the quest? Yeah, and historically, when charitable giving has it like it did in during the great recession. Andan tax laws, tax law changes before then it’s been like three years or so three to four years for charitable giving to ride back to the level it had game before the events that causes according to our country’s history of giving always does rebound. But there have been, like a four year, three, four years, so historically historically it has rebound. It’s that place out here too. Time you mentioned some changes to deductions. That’s good actually result in a loss for individuals, can you? Can you flush out a couple of those? Bilich well, i think what’s happening for for individuals. The idea was generally, the simplified says sort of deductions, but now interpreting it is actually gotten more complicated. So a couple of things is, is there’s no deductions anymore for state and local taxes on a limitation on the deduction for mortgages? First, individuals were coming from high state tax states like new york and california, jersey, massachusetts and connecticut, particularly those with high real estate values and hyre local and state taxes that the double ramming their right so they’re not going to get that deduction on the federal income tax insurance anymore, so if they were paying a lot in those taxes, are getting a big mortgage interest deduction because they have a high mortgage boy? Is that doubling the sanders defections? It may not be so it you know, that may not be enough to offset which may not be enough to offset what they’re losing. Yeah, now, now the mortgage interest deduction was cast right with ten thousand dollars. I’m not completely familiar with the i think what happens is it doesn’t no longer applied to kind of what we call the second mortgage, but it it implies the mortgage for which you purchased you’re home. And i believe lim wass and i’m trying to think it was mortgaged about five hundred thousand or a million dollars under the house from senate till they were slightly different. I’m not okay. That’s all right, all right. Wait. You still have that production, but its kapin its value has been reduced. Correct. Okay, okay. On oneaccord teo. Yes. Definitely going to impact homeowners with high mortgage is especially in new york and california teachers, right? Right. Okay. And also you’re point about state local factories no longer no longer deductible. And that hurt people. Pre-tax. Yeah, and the ten thousand dollars that you mentioned is actually the property tax deduction that you formally take. And that would be captain. Ten thousand starts before i was talking about the mortgage. Oh, i confused, too. All right. Thank you for keeping me straight. All right. I see. I complete things. Okay. Sorry about that. It’s complicated. Still hopes we understand. All right, but you know, it’s. Okay. Um other e-giving e-giving backto non-profits there’s. Been a change to the unrelated business income tax? Sure. So that’s that’s kind of. Ah, more what’s. A little simple to understand. So if you have unrelated business income and it’s taxable, and you’ve got one trader business that’s making a profit and it’s unrelated against those you’re supposed to take cubine or unrelated business income tax on it. But you had another trader business that’s also isolated, but that was that was incurring a lot. You used to be ableto officer of the law from one unrelated state of business against the profits of the possible i’m related. Yeah, that’s, good that’s what investors were allowed to do? They’re allowed to offset capital losses. The world turned their lives off capital gains capital losses, right? So that’s basically is what you’re doing here. Although it’s income rather than send your offsetting, you know, one one area business with another areas business because it’s the same taxi fare that we’re talking. But that’s no longer the case can wait. Put them in silos. So if you’ve got a game in one business that change, you know the taxes. If you have a lost another unrelated business, you might be ableto off that gains in another year from that business alone that was completed. Buy a load out. You’re different. Unrelated. Okay, on there are increasing numbers of non-profits who are engaged in activities that, you know, they they count on, uh, unrelated business thing comes, uh, all right, a lot of pressure on him now, especially with less charitable giving and lessons for charitable giving more non-profits they’re looking for a dink ventures, and some of that will be unrelated. We’re not talking about related income, so it’s, if the activity is related to further a year charitable purpose and you don’t wear the profits just if the activity itself, even if it made no money related, you’re terrible service don’t attack if you do happen to get a part, okay, i understand. Um oh, if you’re okay. So let’s talk about the attacks on endowments of colleges. Yes. So that’s that’s going to be an interesting one, but it only affect very few colleges. I think they’re only going to impact twenty seven colleges and universities. So this was after much haggling between the senate and houses and lobbyists, obviously different colleges and universities. Oh, one point four percent excise, but it is important because now our policy for tax exempt organizations with they should be paying taxes on their income and all. Of a sudden now we’re paying for your college and universities and big yeah, okay, you’re going to wait for it a reversal of an important principle, right? And i guess the danger is that this is a slippery slope i don’t hey, if we can, if we can do it with big colleges and universities, what about smaller colleges universities? What about the charity let’s? Attack them as well? It has been a trend in that on the state level, two of looking for property tax on dh things called highlights, which are krauz payments in lieu of taxes that states they’re trying to charge tax exempt organizations looking for more income from tax accents, and obviously, that that diminishes with charities content to be able to do because they’re gonna have less income because there’s enough today, those pilots are justified because the charitable entity is consuming services of the town but not paying nothing local property taxes, right? That’s the justification that that some room that they again with very well right now they’re frauds get say, well, even if they’re not using the service. Finally, finally, if i were defective, buy-in altum uh, unfortunately, you’ve got another new excise tax. Also, talk about yes, there is there is there enough number of excise taxes, but one that again applies to stake non-profits is on excise tax on compensation of more than one million dollars. Uh, which only a prize. You’re five highest employees and doctors and medical professionals sort of exempted from this, but it doesn’t apply to excess parachute kayman which are kind of seven big severance packages, so it’ll be attacked with corporate rate and again, most for most of your listeners, perhaps almost ology listening longfield anything to them other than the policy of federal government looking to get more more tax money from non-profits on, they’re looking for ways to do that and course, they’re going to get the big ones first. But what? How houses that people down so twenty one percent napor pre-tax rate on compensation of more than million dollars state your five highest employees for tax exempt organization for charity? Well, i wanted to spend time on the excise taxes that only apply at the highest levels of the charitable community because of what he said on what i said earlier hutchisson erosion is brilliant in the national front is the destruction of a longstanding principle in this in the federal tax code, that’s non-profits charitable organizations don’t pay tax, they’re a tax exempt, and now you’ve way are with things the destruction of that principle, and i i think it was it was worth standing up for before it’s still worth standing up for even though the battle the battle has been long, hopefully the war will not be lost, but this is something that is reversible, but as it stands now, we’ve seen that defamation of a long standing three people in this in our federal tax code. Yeah, so it’s a double edged attack and so well put what you said, honey, but it’s a double its attack where authorities are going to get less money, governments are goingto fundchat ortiz last, you’re going to have to have a spending cuts in orderto fund that deficit has created bythe new ac on and then at the same time they’re going to actually tax tax exempt organizations now where they had not done so the floor so it really is a double yeah, onda geun, the principal. Even if you’re not, you’re your organization is not impacted slippery for jean talk about it. It’s at the highest levels now of the non toxic community, but in a couple of years or the next tax code iterations, it could be the midsize organization. Then we could be looking at community colleges so you know, principles that were standing for on dure point well taken about there also being a loss of revenues and that that impact a cross section of non-profits from the smallest to the largest revenue decrease. All right, gene let’s, take let’s, take a break and we’ll come back. We’ll talk about the things that weren’t included, and then you also have some predictions for twenty eighteen and what you think this is gonna lead to? So you take a break, pursue it, data driven fund-raising field guys, that is their store on the listener landing. Of course, she’s probably got a name last pursuing capital p there was a lot more data generated in twenty, sixteen, twenty, seventeen and in all of history, that remark that is remarkable in two years leave out pain data data creations for the hundreds of years that we’ve been tracking, creation of data on dit leads to too much some people call this analysis paralysis, but you need to break down what is important in your data and that’s. What the field guide is something you do to translate the data that you already has into of active inside that are going to help you in your own mostly fund-raising strategy you’re acting on your data and you know you’re not you’re not stuck in overwhelmed and paralyzed. Some people say, because reports being nothing, you got the fancy reports, but if you don’t know howto act on the data that no, no values pursuant has taken what they’ve learned from working with lots of big organizations, and they boiled it down to basic principle to help you on the small and midsize level follow-up you may have heard rumors too effective big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent that’s what we’re talking about that’s what the field god is all about, you know that data? Uh, pursuing data driven thing, david driven technology enabled. We’re talking about a data driven apart they’ve gotten down to basic principles to help you data driven fund-raising field guide tony dahna slash pursuing capital now. Time for tony. Thank you. You got your twenty eighteen. Covered all this month, as he and i are doing right now, we did a couple weeks ago last weekend before, and we’re doing it next week as well. Uh, next week, it’ll be me and any sample ward i’m gonna be talking about starting your plans e-giving in twenty eighteen and then amy is gonna have her twenty, eighteen plants. Wei had maria, twenty, eighteen plants now there’s time for a plan and gene were in the midst of it right now, so i’m going to spend time on bake off to play e-giving who best prospects are i’ve got a bunch of marketing tip talk about the stewardship of your recognition society, all four toes next week’s show so over a month you covered for the years, all you do is keep listening, lovely listeners and that, tony, thank you. All right, i am going to actually abandon the live listen love podcast fund-raising osili affection, success to say you know that they are going out to use which category you fit in and the reason on contamination my my my love and my pleasantries in my affections because jean and i have so much to cover with. The new tax laws. So i want to get right back into it, okay? James, um, let’s, let’s. Talk about what? The things that could’ve been worse. There are some things that weren’t included. Yes. So the thing i think for her non-profits that was not included that was, uh, in previous iterations of the filthy became a law that was the repeal or the weakening of the johnson amendment. And the johnson amendment is essentially the provision under five a one in three that prohibits charities from engaging in election hearing that is spending their resource is endorsing or closing kennedy with latto so it’s really made charities kind of non partisan in that matter is that they were not engaged, are not able to engage in election area, right? And this was not included. Okay, i know that charitable community is divided on this. Uh, was that was one of the proposal just related to religious organizations. What started out that way on dh? It was trained as a free speech issue. So they there those who had promoted repealing or weakening the johnson amendment to allow for election hearing. We’re really kind of the major’s big evangelical churches. I wanted to fund campaigns basically, um, on and so on by taking away the prohibition o r by taking away that prohibition against election neary they could do that. But, um, it’s really was a weak argument to say that there was a constitutional space for a tax exempt organization to be able to engage in an election year, and certainly churches are open to engage in election hearing and half free speech rights, but for the privilege of past exemptions that’s something that charities give up on, but the general idea is and remember that one third of the revenues they’re coming from the government way don’t really want to spend public funds to fund campaign. We want them to be spent on their charitable purpose and opening it up or even weakening assad still has done it again. We’re talking three twelve on disability stoners to say, hey, i’ll be a million dollars, but only if all of your social media messages on your email blast how everybody to vote for candidate act dahna and that’s the only way you’ll get my money now that was about charity almost nothing, right? Just put that in their email blasts and all the social media messages, but they would be beholden to donors in some cases, or just demanding that they become very part of that. You know, that was problematic. Yeah. There was great potential for that. All right? Well, so thankfully not included, but i don’t think that johnson amendment’s of steel is a dead issue, is it? No, it’s not so it got thrown out of this tax still because they needed to pass something by the end of the year that was that was there their goal, so they knew that that was going to be a battle that was hard going to be hard to resolve right away, but i’m sure we’ll see it hopping up in other bills, including quickly to make sure that we don’t have a shutdown on government. So yeah, we’ve got another bill, right? Our next eleven, and i was gonna call you the next spending bill. We’re only funded through january, is that right? You think that i think they have to do it by january to fix it on extension by january so that maybe their own back instant into play and and again, you keep saying that with the affordable care act provisions as well, they getting thrown back into other bills on, i guess that’s how politics works it’s not very pretty that way haven’t seen the end. Of the movement obliterated, johnson amended, which is explicit core. Also, thankfully, we didn’t lose the charitable contribution deduction completely, which was which was talked about. Yeah, and not only was it talked about this, i found really surprising, but it’s. Just a few days ago, the wall street journal’s, the ford of editors, spent out an article criticising the charities for complaining about attack still, and that that’s, really what should have happened with the repeal of the charitable contributions. And i thought that was quite shocking. But so that was from the wall street journal just a few days ago. I’m saying that charitable contributions, deduction, repeal of that deductions were completely justified, so they don’t go over there. They don’t see the over there and down the street from where i am, a couple miles, they don’t see the double extorted non-profits now facing. Today that they either don’t see it or they don’t think it’s important. And i think the argument is that, you know, just like we talked about earlier, that people should give from their generosity of heart, um, and not for tax purposes. But it doesn’t started taking to attend well, that tax purposes play a price because people, how much income they’re going have left over, you know, with which to live so that a part of this it is something. Thankfully, the repeal of the terrible contribution deductions, thankfully, was not included in any of the pills or in the final law. And i think some of the big charity advocate in the country moving into sectors that council non-profits pompel foundation association fund-raising professional writer. They were very helpful and ensuring that way didn’t provision. Okay, all right, well, if it wasn’t either bill, then it seems to be a good sign that it’s not it’s, not something that is likely to come up again. I won’t be enough political backlash not to see it come up again, but i think people have to be delicious. Yeah, we thought to be vigilant about it. Yeah. Okay. Anything is under attack now, so potentially because a lot of things being being questioned bonem uh all right, what else? Volunteermatch island breeze? That’s the same thing is still gone low dahna you know, i think that was ridiculous. So it’s been suck it fourteen cents for miles to charity, vilified the most of your listeners. You want teo, take a deduction of the volunteer for driving on behalf of charities. Maximum production, you khun sake is fourteen cents per mile. Of course. Doesn’t miree doesn’t taste in the cost of your gas and the wear and tear on your ears. But that’s what? We’re stuck it. And there was no assessment made even though it was in one of the earlier still that never got finalized. The business raises like fifty six. Fifty seven cents. Yeah, exactly. So it’s kind of ridiculous here if you work for business and you drive in the mid fifties area. Dr charity? Yes, i think about that. Right as, uh, you are driving around doing business, the business of your non-profits, and you can deduct that somewhere around it’s over fifty five cents a mile. But your volunteers, we’re doing the same work you’re doing well, not exactly, but they’re further in your corporate your charitable mission, you’re volunteers were giving their time, unconference stated, and driving around, using their vehicle to further your charitable mission, just like you’re doing, they can only deduct fourteen cents per mile, so that as you’re as you deduct and you calculate your your deductions for for twenty seventeen, think about your volunteers and the low rates you know there will be multiplying by point one four while you’re multiplying by point five, six something, yeah, fifty four point, five cents a mile for a business deduction this morning. All right, so fifty five, fifty five. Yeah, and the fourteen cents has been there for twenty years. So the last time, nineteen, ninety seven, so, yeah. All right, so we couldn’t get that one done. But that would have been that would have cost. Uh, money is what it would have reduced the federal revenue, and they don’t know they had to. Tio had to balance it out, so that was something we lost. What else? What? Anything else on the good side that’s that wasn’t included that it’s good for non-profits that wasn’t included. Buy-in yeah, i think there’s a few things, so well, it started out bad. There was there was initially in one of the bill over appeal of private activity bonds, bonds used by non-profits to build schools or hospitals, affordable a thousand organizations for finance purposes, but they wanted to kill that. But that was fortunately, thrown out of the final law that that was taken out. But there still is a repeal of fancy self-funding bonds, which actually has to do with refinancing outstanding status. Lower interest, though there, there is a a portion of that that has gone away, so you can’t get in the van three funding fonds without having to pay the penalty. But unfortunately, private activity bonds are still okay, so that was that was good, all right and again, that’s worth mentioning because you want to preserve the principle that that have been so long standing in on benefiting charities in our federal tax code. So, uh, of course, it was good that they want repealed, but they could have been. And if it had been you, that was been yet another blow to the charitable communities in the federal tax code. The things they think they’re worth standing for, whether whether it affects your five, one, two, three or not, it’s may trickle down. Wait a minute. Buy-in. Yeah, wei have just a couple minutes before, before another break. Uh, okay, what else? What else is beneficial? That wasn’t that could have been worse. But what another thing that could have been worse? It is a penalty that exists if you pay somebody is a charity case. Somebody excessively and often times that’s fraudulently done take give money away to some individuals who used music to charity. Yeah, we’re talking about the benefit is, you know, the person that benefited from that on excellent benefits transactions penalty, which could be a hired one hundred percent of the excessive amount. But if they got accepted unconference duitz but the charities was never hit with a tax on that. It was the person that benefited from the tax and potentially board members who approved it, knowing gives to be excessive. They could get hit with penalty tax to writhe. Bill one of the bills that came out out of the house and senate can remember which one says, no less hit the charity with attacks as well with charity which is now lost money to somebody who’s unscrupulously taking advantage of them is now with for that loss. Well, fortunately, that didn’t make the law, but that would have been another blow to charity? Yes, and that was in one of the bills. That was in one of the bill. Maybe a smaller, really important ones for us is one of the bills wanted to eliminate something called a rebuttable presumption of reasonable and the rebuttable assumption of reasonable is his guide that way get from the irs on under treasury regulations that say he followed these rules to ensure that people are not going to overcompensate themselves with directors are officers and they’re going to enter into some sort of financial transaction with the organization handup fifty, are looking to do that in a good space on the board approved this by a majority of disinterested directors. They’re independent, they’re not related to the director officers is going to get the condom station. It might be, you know, to be paid as the ceo or might be leased out on office or whatever it is. You follow these rules with independent boardmember moving in and getting comparability data and make sure that it’s not excessive, then there is this rebuttable presumption of reasonableness that that the irs was gonna say, i presume it’s to be reasonable if we’re going to attack it’s going to take you to court, we’re only going to do that really they wanted eliminate that. Procedure. So everything was before we’re not quite sure whether we can justify this salary or not, but they didn’t. So, yes, that’s, a part of that was not in there, that we didn’t lose that safe harbor. Okay, you gotta take a break. In-kind hello, credit card, payment processing. Please check out the video, which is that tony dahna may last. Toni keller explains the process of businesses switching to tell us and how you are going to earn fifty percent of the revenue that teller get from that relationships. So that is passive revenue for you each month. Nice long revenue tail. The video also explains there one hundred percent satisfaction rate and they have a price sametz guarantee. But you, as a non-profit radio listener, you get more than the mirrors. Humbug, humbug. On the match, you will get two hundred fifty dollars. Hello? Cannot say this money on it. Credit card processing odds are hello can save money. But if they can’t, you will profit under fifty dollars. Video covers switching process on dh. But that is all free and there’s a nine days. Many days. Policies. Business isn’t satisfied. You go out in the first month newsjacking needed because of that fact. But it’s there, if you need it that you wanted. Um, so take a look at the video. Think about the business is that i can help you by switching their processing two tellers. And that is all that tony got an a flash. Tony, tell us now, let’s, go back to chicago. And this, uh, you tax law. Well, it’s definitely knew, but, uh, no, no it’s. Not that great. I don’t think, um, anything else? I mean that that that wasn’t included. And then i want to i want to get to your predictions for twenty. Anything else you want, share that baby? Isn’t news that it wasn’t included? Well, i just say one thing, which, which isn’t perhaps, um, good news. Is that the individual tax benefit that we talked about a little a little bit earlier, i said they were temporary, just to know that those just here after two thousand twenty five. So, yeah, doubling the standard deductions and some of these other favorable provision for individuals will disappear and that’s, because they couldn’t reduce the deficit created by the tax laws. Again, bonem benefits going to the wealthy and stick businesses with folks that we see, statements. Five republican congress with the hope of this whole trickle down and eventually benefit employees and everybody else. So individuals have the corporate like carrots. Yeah, the individual benefits sunset in twenty twenty five, right? Yeah, we don’t even get them. Get them for ten years. And this will be done officially that corporate they have no sunset. Whatever longer. I don’t think they have the sunset of their government. Okay, well, that’s. Good for them. Okay, i’m glad. Yeah. Okay. See the reflection from thirty five percent. Twenty one percent tax write corporations almost reduce the tax burden. Yeah, well, those Numbers again to say that 1 more time. From what? The what from thirty five percent. Twenty one? Yeah. Good. I’m happy for them. Okay, now you have the love some predictions about what’s gonna be happening and you wave these from allowed its non-profit law blog’s dot com the first twenty. Eighteen year ahead. Addiction for non-profits twenty eighteen. But you don’t have to go there if you don’t want to get too cocky right here. I want you to know i want him to get traffic on by-laws. What? You don’t have to got it right here. What’s gonna happen to you, what’s that gonna look overall really do well with just one prediction on and that’s going to be the rise of five o went for social welfare. Or is that what that is? About five months support? Social welfare organizations are pretty well known. May not know the code as well as five. One, two three. They include piela used they lose air sierra club and are a onda was w now the’s are advocacy organization and they’re kind of flight five. Twenty three organizations that they are tax exempt and exists for the social welfare of the community. But what’s different inside his stem contributions, not respectable. And the reason for that is taken lobby their hearts, success without limitations. They spend all their money on lobbying to change laws. And they also spend uh along with this has their primary activity. They could devote their activities to endorsing an opposing political candidates so you could see very aggressive positions. That’s not what i would recommend, but it’s very aggressive positions. We could see these five one for organizations. Spend forty nine percent of their income distort things. Can and individuals don’t get a charitable deductions for giving to them. We just spend a long time talking about how the incentives charitable giving has been reduced anyway, right? And that’s. Why? I think we’re going to start to give five, one four organizations because they are unhappy on either side. They’re unhappy with certain latto on e-giving five, one four organizations. Those organizations have a lot of power, and they have a lot of cardio intervene in election. Well, and we’re talking now about twenty five or six percent of taxpayers getting the benefit of any charitable contributions. So for ninety four, ninety five percent of taxpayers, it doesn’t make a difference from attacks positions, whether you give to a five, one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four for that matter, if you just give it to a for-profit business, if you want bonem so where i think we’re going to see people who are unhappy with long on both leinheiser buy-in, say, working at a fund social welfare organization, really, dramatically change elections changed. By-laws and don’t ask the limitations. Work-life and we are going to be seeing a lot of importance battles in congress you mentioned earlier around the social safety net, so security, medicare, medicaid, you mentioned the affordable care act, i think they’re all going to be coming up again and again in either in their own bills or as part of seemingly unrelated koegler they are really good deals that get stuck in so there’s going to be a lot of political battles team thought on dh saying five o once before can can engage people buy-in yeah, possibly be more powerful that way, which is why i think more money will flow into them. This is a highly onesie course are also where guards money goes money where the public doesn’t know self-funding political candidates because they’re shuttling their money through five o one for organization, again from an aggressive that i spent forty nine percent of its income endorsing for opposing a particular political candidate. Five twenty three could be none of that a cz longer johnson and then it’s not repealed, they still do five months before it can so scary thing and along the other issues that are really hot and up for advocacy. Immigration dreamers, for-profit inequality gap, a gender discrimination, disability, dahna there’s, just so many hot buy-in issues right now and again, i understand there’s arguments on both sides, and so we’re going to keep money flowing into these organizations to affect election because they are elected. Officials have the power to change law, so you’re predicting more flowing into existing before and more tea for inc. Yeah, more. C four’s incorporated dark money going into the fund elections than influence elections and change elections. Absolutely. All right, we got another prediction. Check it out. Twenty eighteen year ahead as the non-profit rob log dot com team. Thank you so much. Thank you. They’re usually problem genes. Thank you very much. Happy new year following at pre-tax. Okay, if you want porter, great content following the guy next week, start your plans e-giving in twenty eighteen and twenty eighteen plan like that before you missed any part of that, james. So i’d be you find it on twenty martignetti dot com, supported by pursuing online tools, more mid sized non-profits data driven and technology labor dahna regular guiding you beyond the numbers piela and tell her credit card and payment processing tax revenue stream. Tony got a last toni taylor creative finish with claire miree family is the line producer shows social media is buy-in shudder, and this music is, by time you really next-gen non-profit video taking non-profit ideas for the other ninety five cents. Go out secret. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.