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Nonprofit Radio for June 9, 2017: Youth On Boards & Crazy Good Turns

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Michael Davidson & Brett Carey: Youth on Boards

Have you considered reducing the average age of your board members? Would you bring on a teenager? What are the issues with millennial board members around recruiting, engaging and retaining? Dr. Brett Carey was on his first board at 18. Board coach Michael Davidson returns to add his perspective.

 

 

Brad Shaw: Crazy Good Turns

Rather than Nonprofit Radio, here’s the podcast you want to pitch to tell your story. They even have hats and bumper stickers. Crazy Good Turns host Brad Shaw shares what they’re about.

 

 

 


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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host one remind you our three hundred fiftieth show is coming up. It’s going to be july twenty eighth, number three fifty and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into apophis itis if you inflame to me with the idea that you missed today’s show youth on boards, have you considered reducing the average age of your board members? Would you bring on a teenager? What are the issues with millennial boardmember za round recruiting, engaging and retaining dr brett carrie was on his first board at eighteen, and bored coach michael davidson returns to add his perspective and crazy good turns rather than non-profit radio here’s the podcast you want to pitch to tell your story, they even have hats and bumper stickers. Crazy good turns host bradshaw shares what they’re about on that show. I told you, take two, take care of yourself, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, wee bey e spelling dot com. It is my pleasure to welcome back michael davidson hey has over thirty years of experience in non-profit board and managerial leadership. He successfully guided the boards of over one hundred organizations. He’s, lead consultant for the united way boards, serve new york city board training program and his past chair of governance matters he’s on the non-profit faculties at new school university and adelphi university. He’s been a peace corps volunteer and assistant district attorney here in new york city and then attorney in private practice, you’ll find michael at board coach dot com michael, welcome back. Thank you very much, tony. Good to be back here. My pleasure. And as i said, our three hundred fiftieth is coming up july twenty eighth and you were on the very first show when it was called twenty martignetti show flies with fun. It was called the tony martignetti show. We don’t even know what we were doing. And dr brett carrie is also with us. He is a physical therapist in hawaii. His board service began at eighteen with the march of dimes in virginia. At twenty five, he was inducted into the march of dimes hall of fame. He chairs the board at west hawaii community health center network. You’ll find him at d. R, for doctor he’s at d r. Brett, carrie, welcome, brett. Carrie. Bret cerini a little tony. Good morning. How are you doing? Aloha to you. Good to talk to you. Where are you? In there. Why were you calling from? So i am actually on the kona coast of the big island on the kona coast. Alright. Cool. Where’s the kona coast bilich chronicle? Yes, on the west side of the island of hawaii. So the east side is where all the volcanoes are and the west side of the dry, very arid side. Okay, now we have a little, uh, sounds like wear a little radio background or something. I know. Is that our thing? Sam it’s our thing? Okay? Its not you, brett. Sorry. Sorry about that. Um, welcome. We haven’t. We haven’t had a guest from off the mainland yet. We’ve neither had onalaska nor hawaii guest before today. So you’re our first welcome. Great. Great. Well, i’m proud to be the first. I’m so glad. And i’m so glad you came to me with the idea of, well, millennials on boards, but actually, teenagers on boards. You started it. Eighteen. How did that come about? Yeah. So how that started is at age seventeen, i was a lifeguard. And i was a sponsored surfer, and so as a surfer, i had different endorsement, and i came up with the idea that i should use my sponsorship. Teo, do something good. So i started looking at different charities to get involved with, and i found the march of dimes, and what i liked about the march of dimes in particular was they had a long tradition of very positive views, involvement, dating all the way back to the polio days of having young people actually go out and collect dimes. And so i approached the marcher done and said i wanted to a fundraiser to benefit your organization, and, ah, a couple of weeks later came back with a bucket of very damp checks in dollar bills that totaled around ten thousand dollars. And then shortly after that, when i turned eighteen, they asked me if i’d be interested and joining the board and you you took it on quite willingly. You were quick. I did, i did so at the time, my main goal of being a boardmember was probably stay on the same packet of the board, you know, board back is everyone else. I was very nervous? Uh, very young at that age, but, uh, luckily, the leadership of our regional board in hampton roads dahna something within me that they thought was work developing. So when they asked me to be part of authority, i was very excited. Okay? And how did it go? How did it go with the outset? Pretty well, where what we’re saying at the time? This is all the way back in two thousand two. Was that there’s a lot of college fund raisers around the country really doing quite well, there’s college fund raisers that are raising over five hundred thousand a year, some over million annually, and think of that time different non-profits were really, really starting to look at the value of young people. And so i was brought on to give that perspective into the youth and college world, and yeah, i was well supported by her board. I did have some good mentors and began to feel really comfortable as a boardmember. Okay, let’s. Bring michael in. Michael what’s your respective on a on an eighteen year old on a board, i think he’s fantastic. I mean, i think a couple of things that number one. A lot of organizations are, in fact, doing what you you know what you’ve described, which is bringing on groups of younger people, mostly toe work on fund-raising. But i’d be really interested in how you got involved with the other aspects of being on the board. Besides the fund-raising. I mean, what was that like to an eighteen year old to be looking at? Organizational finance review of the executive director. Compliance issues those kinds of things that you get involved on the governance end of things as well as on the fund-raising now, let me just remind michael hasn’t been here for over three hundred shows, so he’s he’s become an anarchist in this time asking the questions that no, happy to have a conversation. Now i ask the questions here. Obs are you know, i hope you realize i’m picking on a kid star occasionally welcome. So now, please go ahead. Michael. Yeah, i wouldn’t know. Yeah, yeah, i’d be interested in that perspective. Bright. How did you get involved in that part of it? Especially the reviewing, like, reviewing the ceo performance on eighteen year old reviewing. Ah, ceo. What was all that, like, your excellent. Thank you, michael. Right, right. Those are great questions. And so i was a regular boating boardmember just like all the other board members. So i did have so the rights and privileges for reviewing all the financial statements as well as reviewing our director performance. So when and if i ever felt uncomfortable, something i did have the opportunity to recuse myself from a vote. But for the most part, with the active mentor in had with the explanations that was given before the regularly scheduled board meeting. I felt pretty comfortable, especially with getting the board package normally a week ahead of time had plenty of time to look up any information that i thought i needed to make a good decision. Okay, okay, we’re goingto go out for our first break, and when we come back, of course michael and brett, now i’m going to keep flushing out this issue and we got a live listener love stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like kicking off with a little live listener love. We’re going to start domestic here. Uh, right. New york, new york. Got multiple new york, new york. I love it. Love it. Bayonne, new jersey. Just across the bridge and in between new york, new york and bone got staten island live. Listen, our love to each of you also woodbridge, new jersey. Tampa, florida. Brookline, massachusetts. And that looks like all that’s. Okay, domestic. So far, we’ve got hawaii too. But i suspect that that maybe bread. Because it’s ah, kahlua kona, hawaii. Is that you, brett? That may. Okay. Well, live listen, love live lesser love to each of you and the podcast pleasantries in the affiliate affections. Definitely coming. Second half. Never forget the podcast. Pleasantries or affiliate affections. Okay, um, you said you felt pretty well. Pretty well supported. Brett, you mentioned having mentors. They assign you a mentor because you were eighteen years old or everybody on the board gets a mentor. I would say i would say yes. No to that question where i was assigned a mentor, primarily because it was my first board experience, so, um, even new board members that were let’s say in their fifties, if they didn’t have previous board experience or had questions, they were also assigned mentors as well, okay, you were treated equally then. All right, all right. Um, assume michael hijacked the show, so i’m a little out of sorts now, right now, that’s it no, but it’s fine, of course. My michael let’s, go to you for a threshold question. What might this not even be appropriate for your board? Or or could you see a circumstance where i mean, just basically every board should consider having someone? Maybe not eighteen, but ah, millennial on yeah, i absolutely, i mean, eighteen is a little pushing it. But, you know, for organizations, for example, that a youth serving organizations, it is very hopeful, tohave a really young person on the board or brings that brings that perspective, but other than that, i think i work with a lot of millennials coming onto boards, that’s part of what i’m doing in the united way training and and and they’re wonderful on boards. The interesting challenge, though, is different work styles that they they used crime in very different ways, and sometime that creates are kind of a culture, not much of a conflict, but a culture difference in older boardmember okay, potential now now. All right, so that’s ah, yeah, a couple of things there. I mean, that’s an easy example if they’re if they’re serving a millennial community or youth community, then clearly you want to have the but suppose they’re serving an elder community? Yes, absolutely. Still, yeah. Still, because they bring a different perspective. They bring a very different perspective about communication. They bring a different perspective about what’s going on in the world now and the on any kind of organisation. The area where i find it’s most interesting is different work styles. You know, people of my generation in your suit, tony, you know, we used to face to face meetings. We said, why would people we talk? We hang out, right? Yeah, they’re not used to face to face meetings. They want to do things over the phone. They want to do him by videoconference. They work a lot faster and a lot more focused. And so there’s a kind of a culture thing. When when? They’re working together with older people on the board, but ultimately it works, but it creates a bit of a conflict. Alright, brett, did you see that culture, culture let’s not call it a culture conflict that you felt the cultural differences? I’m sure across across the different generations you were working with? Absolutely, and i see that even today sabat currently has my role of four, chairman of the west dwight community health center, and so what i’ve had to dio because, yes, we have board members in their seventies, too are not used two elektronik communications. So what we’ve done is we’ve decided what committee meetings make sense for what form of communication and what i mean by that is there’s some committee meetings where all we’re doing is reviewing information. And so those meetings it’s very easy, tio do through email, whereas perhaps the finance committee where there’s there’s a lot of explanations and understanding that have to happen within the term sheets, we’ve decided that those interactions are best done in person. And so as a board, we’ve come up with a consensus that stratified across different generations, that seems to be working pretty well o k interesting, cool, cool thing. You’re smart paris more. Okay, what about recruiting? Bret how would you recommend if we want to look for potential millennial members for our board? Where would where would we start to look? Sure, sure, i would think the best way it’s actually more passive recruiting where if you’re lucky enough, do you have a young individual come up to your boarder your organization and tell their story and say they want to be a part of the organization? Usually the conversion rate on those individuals into successful four members? Or perhaps a youth advisory council member i think is high, but otherwise to be to have a bit more of an active strategy, i think looking at perhaps student body president, individuals who have been involved in college organizations have shown some sort of leadership potential, and if you’re lucky enough to live in a college town, that should be pretty easy to have one of your staff for board members actually go teo a college club and give their talk about what your organization’s about and see if he’s interested. I can’t get any thoughts on recruiting. What have you seen your clients? Doing yeah, another. Another good outlet is volunteers. People who are have been recruited to be volunteers very often from corporations who maybe who maybe financial partners with the organizational contributes to the organization. They want their younger people tohave volunteer opportunities and the people than that service volunteers. You could get a sense from them. Of the people that are really committed would take on, for example, volunteer leadership roles who come back repeatedly, the volunteer and they’re a great source off potential board members. Okay, i think i remember on i’ve seen your writing to you like the idea of having ah, mentor for new board members, right colleague, another another boardmember as a mentor, and actually i think it applies to every boardmember even those that have been on other boards, and sometimes especially those it could have been another board’s going because they come thinking that they know everything that they’re supposed to know. And so you really wanna have them introduced into the specific culture of your organization and your board. So many organizations now that i know of, will have a mentor for every new boardmember irrespective of their prior experience, what about keeping? These younger boardmember is engaged ongoing basis now, after they’re on boarded well, that that’s a challenge not just for younger board members. It’s a challenge for all board members and one of the things that happens is lots of organizations don’t pay attention to exactly that question, tony and for example, they lose boardmember is very quickly lose touch with the mission, so they got attracted to the organization because of what it was doing programmatically, and then they no longer have any contact with what it’s doing programmatic, they come to board meetings and they meet with other board members, so organizations now do things to make sure that the board members keep some degree of contact with the mission, either by visiting programs, talking to clients, talking to staff or even bringing clients and staff into the board meeting so that they’re constantly refreshed with what’s this all about yeah, that’s what’s an important thing for that. I’ve heard that recommendation a bunch of times from from you and other guests do brett, i’m going to guess it warms your heart a bit that we’re we’re not focusing on what specific teo millennial board members that has. To be done differently, but rather, like michael is saying, these are things that apply to all board members, whether it’s engagement or having a mentor, i love that approach, ok? Absolutely don’t wantto segment you out waken treat you as if we treat all other board members. The teenage thing really, really gets me. I mean, that was that was pretty courageous of that. The local virginia march of dimes to invite an eighteen year old to the board a zoo. Michael what you perspective on that? I think it was courageous, but i think at the same time, it was really very smart. I mean, they saw somebody with energy. They knew how that person could be used. And i assume they figured, brett, you were smart enough to learn what you needed to learn. And they saw a great opportunity. They’re very smart. They weren’t stuck in a kind of a mold. This is what our board members need to look like. They were open for opportunity and for energy to bring new things in. So i think was very courageous of the organization is very smart. What’s that line from top gun. Gutsiest move i ever saw, which may be dating a za boomer. But i’m a young boomer. I’m young. Okay. Let’s. Brett, any any problems you encountered? You be as specific as you can. Difficulties? You recall from being an eighteen nineteen year old boardmember? Sure, i would say the biggest problem. And this comes up on your show all the time. It’s the jargon that gets thrown around, uh, jargon jail. Yeah. Yeah. Eso every organization very much benefit from having jargon. Jail because it’s very easy as a new boardmember tio here. A lot of jargon cannot know what it means to be embarrassed. Teo either ask the question or to become a little more reclusive and withdrawn once you feel like you don’t know what’s going on the board meeting? Yeah, how many times can you raise your hand and say, what does that mean? What, what? That acronym right becomes becomes difficult. Michael that’s a really interesting point about board members. Kind of feeling embarrassed to ask questions. And one of the things that many organizations do now is they add at the end of a board meeting, an executive session and the executive session has those staff in the room and it’s just the board members and it’s an opportunity to say whatever might have been on your mind that for whatever reason, you might have been reluctant to say, and so and that’s always a good opportunity for people to ask the questions that they think might be regarded as dumb questions. So it’s a it’s, a it’s, a structural thing that board’s khun due to get past that. But then you’re still sitting with your fellow board colleagues. Yeah, but is it likely you’re old? You still got the seventy two year old in the room? Yeah, but but somehow, without the staff in the room, it’s a little easier, it feels more informal. Okay, brett, you taking on anything like that? Or did you just cum it yourself? You know, how did you work this out? Oh, certainly, there were certainly some embarrassing moments, but i think michael’s right without staff in the room, sometimes things are a little easier, but that being said, a lot of times, there are boardmember that you’ll feel more or less comfortable asking questions to create understanding about. So yeah, i definitely have the moments where, you know, i felt a little embarrassed are i wanted to know more information, but again, i think that goes with any new boardmember to where, you know, even if you’re an individual in your fifties, maybe you haven’t had experience with human resource is with finance with fund-raising and so most of the time, when you recruit new board members there’s going to be situations where they feel a little uncomfortable, so i think that’s just important to recognize when recruiting any new boardmember okay, okay, um, michael, have you seen where boards will will recruit management from west where organizations will recruit management from the boards? Is that a is this a possibility that you might be a millennial might become the next ceo or ceo? It happens, it’s not a great idea because you really don’t want your board members looking at their board position as a as a potential personal career ladder, because then, if that if that becomes a possibility of the organization, they’re going to behave differently, and they’re going to be looking at the board position from a personal point of view. And so occasionally it happens, but it really is rare, it’s not something that happens very common, and the only time it sometimes happens is if a longtime executive director. Is stepping down and there’s nobody immediately available to fill in, and then maybe a boardmember might step in on an interim basis, but even that is not a great idea. So in general, board members don’t do that, and in general organizations don’t encourage it. Yeah, okay. All right. Bret you have any perspective on that? Sure. Where i agree with michael. Where? Through a succession plan succession plan. You might see that you might see, you know, a board chairman temporarily serve as an interim ceo, but, um, i would say also in rural areas like out here in hawaii, it’s probably a little more common for individuals to g o from aboard role to a staff role, but that’s purely out of necessity, we’re in a rural area like this, especially where it’s very hard to find someone with five year work history in a way, or even a ten year work history that probably more often than two more urban area, you will see boardmember going on and serving the staff members. But i completely agree with michael where you don’t want to set that up as an expectation toe where someone starts changing their views. Or use their role of boardmember differently, you know, they start auditioning to be the next ceo. Yeah, okay, getting at zoho on ah, a job interview almost on there being evaluated for that. Okay, okay, now the average board ages is about sixty eight and ah, and we have less than about two percent of boardmember zehr are under thirty, which is the millennial means not for money or cut off, but it sze close. Brett, you’re, uh you’re obviously encouraging greater age diversity, right? Absolutely, absolutely. Where we look at boardmember ship and a lot of time, ethnicity and gender are giving great priority, which they should be. But we should add aged ever see that as well? Millennials are now the largest generation to that was a pew research center early last year, like march or april of last year declared that they now outnumber baby boomers. Michael, you and i are under threat way r yeah, andi, i know. And you’re in your you also agree with the idea of greater age diversity? Absolutely. It brings in different perspectives. But whatever we talked about, yeah, we got, like, another two minutes or so. What else? You want to not necessarily leave people with but the things that we haven’t talked, something we haven’t talked about yet? You want to you want explain? Sure, sure i would. I would say that board should have a conversation about potential versus experience and what i mean by that is we’re in the air, the mark zuckerberg. So the world. So where you’re seeing young people do phenomenal, phenomenal things who ever thought we would have a twenty six year old billionaire? And in addition to being a physical therapist, i also create rehab fitness app so smartphone applications and when i go into different tech conferences, it’s amazing to see the value that different tech companies are putting in the young people, very young people sometimes eighteen, twenty years old, and i would suggest that perhaps the fund-raising and non-profit world can look at millennials and younger people in the same way that the technology industry has. So as a physical therapist, you see people’s potential. I love that, and you want to and on board, you want to balance that potential with experience? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, michael, final word. Thirty seconds or so. I’m right there with you. Bret that’s. Really interesting. The only thing is, i mean, it’s a much harder job to to read potential than to read a experiences is very it’s. Not a resume is on a resume, right? But i think you’re absolutely right. That is what we should be looking at is the potential and the march of dimes. And where was it in virginia? Brett hawaii. In the virginia beach area. You beach. They identified it. So it’s, it’s, it’s, eminently doable. We got to leave it there. Brett gary, physical therapist in hawaii. You can follow him at d r brett, carrie and michael davidson. Bored coach, you’ll find him at board. Coach dot com gentlemen, thank you so much. Thank you. Nice talking to you, brett. Pleasure. All right, take care. What do we have coming up? We’ve got crazy. Good turns coming up with bradshaw were going a little fun with this former home depot. See? Sweeter now with a with a dot org’s. Um, first pursuant, enormously rich re sources that are all free. Whether you hear me talk about week after week, whether it’s, webinars, resource papers, white papers, the other content that they have archives that they’ve got i’m just encourage you to check out pursuing dot com for the webinars for the for the for the content papers, click through and they just have a wealth of free resource is they are they’re they’re engaged in fund-raising they’ve got research on fund-raising you need to raise more money, i think you’ll find the resource is at pursuing dot com valuable and we be spelling you know them super cool spelling bee fundraisers and we’re obviously we’re just talking about millennials and engaging millennials. Maybe before they come before i become boardmember sze don’t want to check you out and what better way to check you out? Then? A spelling bee fundraiser bret was a fundraiser for the virginia beach march of dimes. Now you might do it as a as a knight of spelling and live like stand up comedy and live music and dance it’s a night devoted to fund-raising for your organization, check out the video at we be spelling dot com and then pick up the phone for pete’s sake pick up my voice cracked alot i hate it when i love it! Talk to the ceo, alex greer set up a night of spelling bee fund-raising for you now time for tony’s, take two summer is here, and i want you to take care of your self to get away from your work. Phone, email, social texts out of the office with you, get out! I did not have a video last week because i was taking time off for myself. Now i do have a video, so but that doesn’t mean that you take time off, and then you work twice as hard the following week. I’m not. I’m not suggesting that either it’s, like, don’t get carried away, but i do have a video. It’s got advice. It’s got some drinks, suggestions, it’s, too good to drink tips in there and, uh, an admonition for napping. Check out the video it’s at tony martignetti dot com. Please take care of yourself this summer, that is tony’s. Take two. My next guest is bradshaw he’s, the host and co creator of crazy good turns podcast telling stories about people who do amazing work for others. He’s been the chief communications officer at pepsico gateway and most recently, home depot, where he reported directly to three ceos during his more than ten years there, he’s been on the boards of the point of light foundation, ken’s crew kaboom and the metro atlanta area council of the boy scouts of america. You’ll find the show at crazy good turns dot or ge and at crazy good turns welcome bradshaw. Hey, tony how’s it going, it’s. Really great. How you doing? Down in atlanta? Uh, good. It’s a beautiful day here. Not too hot. It’s. Uh, just a stunning spring day. I’m glad i’m glad you’re okay. I’m glad you have good weather. Let’s. Get past the weather. You know, that’s, the basic everybody could talk about the weather, right? We all have that in common. So let’s, talk about this crazy good turns your co founder of this podcast, uh, frank blake was the former ceo of home depot. Correct? All right, so so this’s. An interesting mix. Tio two high. Level c sweeteners at home depot. I don’t know what you’re trying to atone for the for what you brought on the humanity as a cz corporate raiders waiting this right in my way. I like to think we did a lot of good in the world through home depot. And i will say that our experience there is actually what led us to do crazy. Get turns. And you want me to give you the back story on that? Yeah. If i could just starting just a tad. I know you were doing videos for home depot employees, right? Yeah. I mean, that was one of many ways that we communicated with over half a million employees across the country. That’s correct. So storytelling was part of how we communicated at home depot, both frank and me. And as you said, i’ve reported directly to frank, who was running the company, and clearly, storytelling and communication was critical in his mind to motivating, as i said, that half a million employees. Yeah. All right. So we see the sea, the qualifications you wanted. Your both are retired now from home depot. Is that right? Yeah. We both retired in the spring of two thousand fifteen. Okay, so wealthy okay, did well did well, home depot, we’ll leave it there. I won’t get carried away. Um, and so now e-giving back. And how you doing that through crazy good turns. Well, what? Uh, fundez over coffee. Frank and i were talking and discussing what we might be ableto do together post home depot. And he made the point that i just made, which was in the end, what we did really well, we’ll tell stories, let’s, figure out a way to do it for the greater good. And it was frank idea tio basically focused on non-profits we both worked with a number of non-profits at home depot, iran, our foundation and all of our corporate giving. And frank was obviously closely involved with that. So we got to know quite a number of non-profits would really cool back stories. And we said rather than just focus on what they’re doing and the good work they’re doing let’s focus on that sort of compelling backstory of their founding. And what inspired that founder to create that non-profit and that’s what crazy good turns us. It’s a roughly twenty minute podcast that’s a voiceover narrative, not just a q and a that set the music and tell the compelling backstories of non-profits let’s not be too critical of the q and a format. Okay, i wasn’t critical, so i was differentiate. Okay, okay. No, that’s. All right, i did see that i have to talk. You know, i was looking at you up and i did see some quotes in the atlanta journal constitution. Ah, but you’re fairly differentiating from from the format that i have on non-profit radio. Sure. Although i’ll tell you one thing, tony, we are looking at supplementing that narrative format with some possible cubine a content as well down the road, you know, we’re still young, we’re still growing. Ah, and that could be a path that we take in addition to the narratives we tell you’re in your second season now, is that right? That’s correct. Halfway through a second season. Okay. And ah, how often are you publishing? Every other week? Okay, we’re on a brief hiatus now till july. We’re just taking a little summer break and then we’ll be back in the lead after the july fourth holiday. Yes, very nice. I saw that nothing, nothing this month, but coming back after july fourth, we’re taking your advice t get out during the summer, which is what we’re doing. Okay, very good. Um, you are you get your how many listeners how you doing listenership so far? Second season midway through? Yeah, we’re right now pacing and over six thousand downloads a month, which for a podcast our size with no notoriety in terms of a celebrity host is pretty good. We’re ahead of the curve. Ultimately, we want to scale to a size where we can sell ads and get sponsors and will remain a non-profit we are non-profit, by the way, funded by frank’s family foundation, and we’d remain a non-profit if we become profitable, but we’ll push those profits back to the non-profits way feature so it’s a it’s, a pretty innovative model of fund-raising through storytelling if we can just keep growing now, as the as the host of producer of ah self-funding podcast, i got to say you’re, you know you’re in a very enviable spot where you’ve got a foundation helping you out. It is true, very fortunate to have the resource is that we do. Thanks to frank in a family foundation. It’s it’s. A blessing compared to a lot of other podcast. Start up. Interesting. So you count. I guess this is a little inside baseball, but but but you count downloads per month. I never i never counted that way. I was looking listeners per week. I mean, i could say, like, sixty five thousand downloads a month or something like that. Yeah, i never i never had. And i never looked at the number that big. I mean, i look at it, but then i divided by the number of show’s in a month and that’s how i get listeners per week, right? And i can, you know, we can see by weak as well, but and? And you know this well, when you, when you release new episodes, you see spikes with the automatic download on itunes that elsewhere? Yes. I’ve heard rumors to that effect. Right. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, but okay, interesting, because i could see, like, sixty five. All right, so, um, i’m not trying to be competitive, but you just you piqued my interest. Cause i never counted it that way. You got you got some? Very interesting stories can we can we talk about the the organization that helps the people who are living in the storm tunnels below las vegas? Yeah, that’s called shine a light and that’s that’s an interesting story. And it’s it’s basically one guy in las vegas, it’s not even an organization or non-profit it’s just one guy doing great work. He was a writer in las vegas who stumbled on the fact that there are three to four hundred homeless people living in the storm drains in las vegas, and he decided to just help him and that’s what he does, and it connects him with relief agencies, and secures donations for them. It’s uh, a cool story and it’s, one of those there’s there’s a number of stories that we tell that air really sense of discovery. You come away and say, wow, i didn’t even know that was an issue or ah, cause that i could actually look at maybe contribute to yeah, that wouldn’t move me, especially because what? You just said it za solo guy. Oh, and he hasn’t scaled it up. I mean, he’s got volunteers and things, but but he’s just he got moved. By the piece that he wrote for the i guess i gather it’s an alternative paper in latto rittereiser and ah, just even as a journalist he got he got so involved with the personal story that he had to help the people he was he had just covered. Yep. Moving. Moving so that i mean that’s, you know, that’s the beauty of what you guys are doing that that we’re not doing here on non-profit radio well, that i mean, we are trying to tell inspirational tales in the hopes of motivating others to do good things for other people. And even if it’s not starting a non-profit if it’s just holding the door open for someone one day, i mean it’s there’s, a lot of good that can be done in the world and that’s what we focus on and hopefully we’re an antidote to a lot of the nastiness in the world today. We were just talking about the eighteen year old boardmember let’s talk about the story that you you covered you of the ten year old founder riley pack? Yeah, right again. She’s amazing. Yeah. So she started that, you know, there are a number. Of organizations out there that gives school supplies to poor children, but the fact that this was founded by a ten year old she’s sixteen now was just remarkable to us. And when you, when you hear the episode as i’m sure you have, you come away so impressed at the complexity of her world view and her ability to actually marshall resource is to solve a problem at the age of ten it’s pretty incredible. Yeah, i again another moving one. What are you looking for, brad as your as your vetting the stories for for the podcast? Well, it’s it’s a great question, tony, because we get a lot of submission through a website that, frankly, we appreciate the submissions but can’t cover them all in frankly, wouldn’t what we’re looking for is just a compelling story. So what we tell everyone is all non-profits by definition, you khun say do good work, but do they have a good story? And so we always do a pre interview with the founder or someone on the founder’s staff to just sort of stress test what that backstory is, are there some interesting twists and turns in that person’s life? That maybe aren’t on the website or in any of the previous media coverage. And so we try to teach those out during the pre interview process so that when we go into it, we know that we’ve got a compelling story line before we even do the interview. Music is also important to your show. It is? Yeah. I mean, it’s it it it is an important part of the whole aural experience for us. And, you know, it brings a richness and sound and just way think, ah, highly polished professional product in the end. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, i noticed you have a you have a grant contest for radio for fifty thousand dollars. This is you got fifty thousand dollars to give tio one of your one of the charities you chronicle. This is that xero yeah. That’s. Right. And again, this is the generosity of frank. I mean, he gave a twenty five thousand dollar grant at the end of last year’s season, which we gave the team rubicon. That was our premiere episode this year. We wanted to just put a little bit of sort of soft criteria around it to say, hey, we want to get back to the non-profit that we feature, who does the most to help spread the word about crazy good turns through their social networks through their email blasts and just their overall dissemination of their episode? And so we’re just, you know, walking along this this season, keeping an eye on how people are helping promote crazy good terms and at the end of the season will give one of those non-profits fifty thousand dollar grant thanks, frank. Yeah, well, bravo, brad, i mean, you’re you got a bunch of organizations now stepping up their their social media and other games to help you promote the show and for the one that does the best there’s a nice fifty thousand dollar gift that’s yeah, that’s and i mean, you think about it, some of the non-profits we cover are very, very small and something like a fifty thousand dollar grant is an important grant to a non-profit of any size, but it could be game changing to one of the smaller ones if they should get it. Yeah, now, what about the musicians you’re i feel like i feel like you’re shortchanging the musicians because because those air all done gratis. They are on dh, so, yeah, they basically donate their songs to us, uh, to score the show itself on dh way went into it, saying it would be a nice vehicle to actually provide some music discovery as well. And that’s, that’s, certainly part of what we’ve been doing. Okay, we’re going to take our takeout break when we come back. Brad, i’m going to continue talking about crazy good turns podcast and how you submit and a little more detail about what they’re looking for. And, ah, a couple of other stories stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s, continue with that live listener love! We’ve had more people check in from new bern, north carolina and texas, texas we can’t see your city’s fremery masked in texas don’t know why, but welcome to the broadcast on dh, then let’s go abroad. We’ve got a lot of a lot of listeners abroad starting in germany, guten tag and also seoul, south korea, always always loyal listeners in seoul, thank you so much on your haserot comes a ham nida, ukraine! Ukraine is with us. We cannot see your city, but we know you’re there live list their love to you also, knox are in malta, mexico city, mexico bring a star days, el hadi dahna morocco live listener loved to you and team gear morocco to for two are they neighboring cities? I don’t know, barocco, welcome live listen love to you, and we’ve got to do on the heels of that. Of course, going the podcast pleasantries did i just say plod? Cast the podcast pleasantries come to the over twelve thousand listeners each week, whatever your task you’re doing while you’re listening whatever device whatever time, thank you so much for being with us means a lot. Thank you. Pleasantries to the podcast audience and the affiliate affections are am and fm listeners throughout the country. We’re gonna have some kind of a couple of new am fm affiliates to announce in the next couple weeks or so just tryingto close those up. Wrap those up, but we’ve got a couple new ones coming up so glad that you’re station fits non-profit radio into its schedule affections to our affiliate listeners. Bradshaw i got it. I got to send out the love. So thank you for hanging on while i do that. No problem let’s talk a little more about the submission process get can you can you be a little more detailed for the organizations that would like to submit about what it is you’re looking for in that compelling backstory? Sure, uh, if you go to our website, which is crazy, good turns dot or ge on, just scroll down toward the bottom of the landing page. You’ll see a little box that says, tell us a story and if you click on that it’s just an automatic email that you can fill out and send to us and we read everyone, uh, replied all and as i said before, we ask you to really tell us what is that compelling backstory in addition to what the non-profit does on dh it’s work and it’s focus and cause so sometimes that doesn’t necessarily confirming the e mail, but it looks like an organisation that eyes interesting to us. Then we’ll pick up the phone and talk to someone to try to get more details. Well, okay, all right, so cool. You’re you’re investigating investigative investigative journalists? Yeah, sort of. Okay. We’re not looking to blow the lid off. No, no, no. Yes. All in a positive. All in a positive light. Okay, um, i guess and the best way to highlight some of these interesting back stories is to is to talk about a few of them here. Let’s, let’s talk about team rubicon, which you mentioned. What? I guess i’m going to blow the headline for you. But what compelled me about this one was there was a comment about the addiction of war. Yeah, that’s. That was the first question that we featured in that episode when i ask jake can you miss war? And he didn’t skip a beat he’s, a former marine who was the co founder of team rubicon, which, for your listeners deployed veterans to disaster relief areas. It’s a it’s a really cool, well run, terrific at marketing organization, and jake would is the founder on dh is just one of the most interesting philanthropists out there today. They do just a fantastic job, they’re working, they’re helping vets by sort of tapping into the one of the adrenaline that they’re not getting in there daily routine back here in the states after they’ve left the service, and then they’re also helping victims of tragic, natural natural disasters. That’s, right, it’s a win win and i would say, in addition, that tapping into the the adrenaline which which jake describes well, he also goes to great lengths rightfully so, to talk about veterans commitment, the service in general, you know, you think about it, they they voluntarily joined whatever armed services branch they did, and by nature, their service minded and when they, when they leave the service and come home, sometimes there’s a pretty big void you need to fill in terms of service. To others and this’s a great way to do it into your point. It helps those victims and disaster stricken areas as well. You do your show from a studio. Is that right? Won a radio studio in atlanta? Yeah, we do. We are audio engineer is a gentleman named steven key who is a a m d j here in town. And sixteen. Ninety, uh, is the station and they very graciously loan us their studio when it’s not used. So we do all the interviews from there. We do the voice overs from there as well. Do you always have people come to the studio? Are they’re calling into? I’d say it’s about half and half when they do call in. We asked that they go to a studio so we can capture their audio and high quality. And, uh, and then we mix it after okay. Yeah, you do. Yeah. It it’s heavily produced, which is, is a different sort of format for then. A lot of the non-profit podcast that are out there correct. That’s? Correct. Yeah. That’s, you know, and by the way, purposely wanted it to appeal more broadly beyond just the non-profit sector. Clearly that’s a big target audience for us, for all the obvious reasons, but we know that a lot of our listeners aren’t affiliated with a non-profit or maybe they give to some but aren’t really in the world of non-profits and we wanted it to have broader appeal with just great stories about people doing amazing things for others. Yeah, for sure i mean, you’re you’re you’re you have terrific, i think commercialization potential too, because the audience is really the whole, the whole country that’s what we’re hoping we just need thio keep getting the word out and keep growing. Okay, well, if we can help you while we are helping you, you are you are you people let’s talk about another one that i thought was interesting, so i’m making it all about me. I didn’t even ask you which ones you thought were interesting. Maybe i should throw it to you. Is that why don’t you? So i did not listen to every single episode, so i don’t have the the breath that you have let me toss it to you, what’s one of the stories you cover that that sticks out ah, one of the ones that’s. My personal favorite, is, uh, stephen siller tunnel to towers. And that was one of our early episodes in our first season last year. And again, i mean it’s it’s, the backstory that makes it so compelling. Uh, stephen siller was a fireman in new york who, uh, i was off duty on nine eleven and grabbed all of his gear and drove as far as he could get that close to the towers as he could get ran across a bridge with his gear, ran into one of the towers and family collapsed and he died. His brother got him. Frank siller uh, took up the cause of veterans who have been catastrophically injured and decided the launch of a non-profit called tunnel the towers, and it basically built smart homes for catastrophically wounded vets. And one of those is a guy named top love who was a former marine. Who’s, a triple amputee. And we did that interview, actually in the house that frank sylar’s organization built for him. And it was just and todd’s a great interview. Frank’s a great interview. It’s just a great illustration of that really compelling backstory that brings the work. Together in a really insightful way, a lot of new yorkers know that story because the frank’s brother was in brooklyn and that’s, right? You had to run through the brooklyn battery tunnel. That and that, and i’ve run that i ran that that five k. Once you run, you run the path that he took that’s exactly right from brooklyn through the book of battery tunnel to get. And then it ends at the tower of what ends at the site of the former towers. Yeah, yeah, and again, this is one of the organizations in team rubicon that frank and i got to know so well through home depot because we were one of their largest funders, both tunnel to towers and on team rubicon when we were at home depot. Okay, cool. All right. If you have just, like, a minute left or so brad, what what should we leave people with? I mean, i’m certainly going to leave them with your girl, so you don’t have to say that again. What do you want to leave people with about crazy good turns? Well, we need more stories we always do. And you know, we’ve got plenty in the pipeline for the balance of the season, but we’re always on the lookout for compelling stories of people doing amazing work for others. So please do send him our way because we we love to see what’s going on out there and hopefully feature a few. Okay, we’ll leave it there. Bradshaw hosting co creator of crazy good turns podcast. You’ll find them at crazy good turns dot or ge and at crazy good turns brad’s so much. Thank you very much and good wishes. Good luck. Thank you, tony. Thanks so much for the time. Real pleasure. Thank you. Care. Next week, jonathan lewis is going to return to the show with his new book, the unfinished social entrepreneur. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam leaving, which is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scots. Time you with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio pony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for March 24, 2017: Fire Up Your Board Fundraising

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Gail Perry: Fire Up Your Board Fundraising

Consultant and author Gail Perry will reveal proven techniques to motivate your board to step-up to their fundraising responsibilities. Her book is “Fired Up Fundraising.” (Originally aired 11/12/10. And board fundraising is still an issue.)

 

 


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Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, sean congo. He e mailed me. I work in the innovation space and i find your non-profit radio podcast super relevant to what i do loved twenty seventeen legal tips episode thank you twenty seventeen legal tips episode that was aaron bradrick on january sixth. Jean takagi blew it. I invited him, but he couldn’t pull it together, so he had someone from his office do it. I’m not sure if it’s drugs or alcohol, it might be i don’t know. Maybe it is you tell me it might be drugs or alcohol. I just don’t know. Sean continues, i just put an awesome review and rating on itunes and just wanted to pass on the love, keep doing your thing and inspiring us to crush it. Well, it’s actually be great is what i encourage at the end of encourage it’s more than just an encouragement and explicit demand. Be great. So it’s not quite crush it. But it’s it’s i think crushing it is. Ah, is lesser than be great any case, shawn still grateful whether it’s crushing it or be great. Thanks for loving non-profit radio. Thank you for the itunes raid in review. Um, and you can find us on itunes at non-profit radio dot net. Just saying, i don’t know is that inappropriate self promotion? I don’t know you tell me, he’s shaun congo neo-sage a w n k a n ew ngo and he’s at sean congo dot com sean, thank you so much for the non-profit radio love. Congratulations on being this week’s listener of the week and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get hit with ridiculous oh, gangly own itis if you got me nervous with the idea that you missed today’s, show, fire up your board fund-raising consultant and author gail perry will reveal proven techniques to motivate your board to step up to their fund-raising responsibilities. Her book is fired-up fund-raising and that originally aired november twelfth, twenty ten this show’s been around a long time, you know, we’re coming up on seventh anniversary in july every every july is another fifty shows, so in november two thousand ten, we were about joy was never remember four months old. Is that right? Yes, four months old. So the quality of my questioning may not be up to what you’re accustomed to in these days, but the information still very relevant board fund-raising still very, very much an issue seven years later, and we didn’t only start talking about it in two thousand ten on tony steak, too. Naps and that’s right naps two weeks in a row are you gonna give me trouble with that? We’re about it off my back with the naps responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is gail perry on firing up your board fund-raising from november two thousand ten, fire up your board fund-raising i’ll be joined by gail perry. Gale is a consultant and the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action. Her book title pretty much says it all, she’s going to share proven techniques to motivate your board to step up to their fund-raising responsibilities gayle’s book is published by wiley, and it is available on amazon gail’s. With us for the hour i’m joined now by the president of gale perry associates, gail perry is a consultant and author. As i said earlier, her book is fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action, published by wiley, available on amazon dot com. Gail is an international speaker on this subject, and she leads her own has led her own consulting firm for over fourteen years. I’m very glad that gale’s practice brings her to the show today. She’s joining us from north carolina? Welcome, gail. How you doing? I’m doing well. Welcome. Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have you. Yeah. Why’s fund-raising important for board members. Well, actually, they they actually own for our big fun for it. And many say that they have a very bilich boardmember not agree with gail. I’m gonna interrupt you. I know you’re on your own. A vonage connection, i think. Is that you? Yeah. And it’s breaking up a little bit. Do you have another phone that you can call on and i will do a little a little song and dance while you call him. Okay. Please do this’s. Tony martignetti let me. Okay, i was all set for my song and dance like this, she cuts me off. We’re just having a little technical problem with trying to get a good connection from gail galley there matter-ness it sounds better. One we want to continue with the question why? And you cut me? I didn’t get to do my song and dance. You believe this? Alright, maybe. Maybe later notion. Uh, gail, you still there? There, gail that’s. Beautiful. All right. You know, this is live radio because this wouldn’t happen. Otherwise we have gale back, but we’re going to take this break. I’ll be joined by gail perry after this break. Please stay with me. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent dahna. I’m joined now by gail perry. Our subject is fired-up you’re bored fund-raising gail, you’re with us, right? Okay, excellent, much, much better and let’s go to that first question. Why is fund-raising important for board members? Gale? Well, boardmember have such a responsibility to make sure the organization is successful, but the problem is that many organs many boardmember zehr not enlisted a recruited on dh, told when they’re recruited that theirjob fund-raising so at the outset, they should be told they should be told, and it doesn’t happen. I think that non-profits or embarrassed to ask him or afraid to bring it up, and i think it backfired terribly because then the staff wants the board to helping fund-raising in the board says what? What do you what do you know? What about yes, you know, the chronicle of philanthropy just yesterday in the online edition had an article about the frustrations among non-profits that board members don’t step up to this important obligation. And on the side bar there were four articles going back to i think nineteen, ninety seven since then, and all of them had the headline’s something like non-profit boardmember sze don’t step up. To their responsibilities, and here was basically that four or five maybe articles since i think nineteen, ninety seven, i know this is an enormous area of frustration for non-profits yeah, it is, but the problem is that i think i think non-profits bear a lot of the blame because i think i think, frankly, i think their expectations are way too high. You can’t expect untrained volunteers to be successful in fund-raising when they’ve never done it before and they may not have the personality for it, frankly, i don’t want on that boardmember soliciting because they wouldn’t be good at it. You probably have to clean up. Okay, we’re gonna talk about that later on. But what other roles there are around fund-raising besides soliciting, but so you think you think the responsibility lies with the non-profit wants a little more about that? Yeah, there’s a there’s, a sinus flandez says, we all get the boards we deserve on that means that the more time and energy you spend on your board them or you get out of him, and i think that non-profit leaders need to take take a leadership role with their board and give them training and talkto them about expectations and talk to them about what it is that the job of the board members is to do because somebody boardmember don’t know, and i’m frankly, a frankly, i think a lot of people who serve on board are very well meaning people, and they want to do a good job, but you got to tell him what you need. Yeah, that’s always that’s always the case, they’re passionate about the mission, and i know part of your messages toe unleash that passion, we’ll get to that they’re always passionate about, otherwise they would have turned you down, you know, they care, but you gotta figure out a way to make it easy for him and make it fundez form and what are some of the challenges that that are either organizational or personal to board members? Well, you know, the one thing they don’t know anything about fund-raising they be racking, i think it’s unreasonable to assume that somebody can do a great job when they when they’re totally untrue ride and i’m a battle that weary, hardened veteran of twenty five years and fund-raising and i’m very comfortable with that i got his sessions, like write articles in conferences understand the techniques in the technology, so one of the rules is they don’t understand it at all. I think four members think that fund-raising is all about asking for money, and we all know that that’s not particularly good fund-raising because good fund-raising is much more of a cultivation process in the relationship driven process, but if boardmember think it’s all about asking and it’s all about money, then they freeze, you know, from from my perspective, i think fund-raising is about changing the world and helping children and helping the environment and all the things that you’re raising money for, and the board members get stuck in this mythology of what they think fund-raising years, and they make it into this horrible yucky, embarrassing, um, tacky, poor manners, you know, that they made it back-up also its myths about it, but when you do it right, it’s, a really joyful experience and your matching donors with causes that mythology often is carried on by the organization. Yeah, you know, i think i think i think fundrasing got a bad rap all around because a lot of people are nervous about it. And they don’t they don’t understand it. They don’t know how to do it well. And and it does take a special skill set really does. What about the the meetings that board members are attending and they’d be used for your left looking she’s laughing at me on my own show? You believe this? I know you. I know you’re laughing, but i’m a delight. Board meetings don’t think that board meetings are boring, and i think the board members would tell you that they’re boring and i would say to you, if you have boring meetings, what kind of a board? And you gonna have a board board? Uh, and if you have a board board, i don’t think they’re going to take action and fundrasing so it’s very important that we make boardmember into a cheerleading session and a and a exciting motivational experience now, that’s interesting. Sometimes, you know, something called a cheerleading session is used pejoratively, but obviously you don’t mean that. How would you turn boardmember into a cheerleading session? Well, you know, i think it’s gotta have some excitement in passion to it. I think the leadership has got to be passionate and excited? I think you’ve got to talk about important issues. You’ve got a door way. Shit boardmember time with crap. Excuse me. You know, um thank you. You bring in testimonials from people who who, uh, who are being helped by your organization. I mean, just last night i was doing aboard retreat with our local women’s center, and i asked the director to tell us a story of something that had touched her heart recently. And she said she told the story of this woman who had two children, preschool children, small ones. Her husband lost his job and he abandoned the family. And she was that her last resort. She didn’t know what to do. She was going to get evicted from her apartment. She has no money. She had nothing. Two small children had never worked outside the home. And when gene, the director of the women’s center, told her that that the women’s center could help her with her rent for a couple months so she got herself established. The lady burst into tears and gene in telling the story. Last night she cried, had a blower nose and and you know, it was in front. Of all the board members and the board members really got it about how important their work. Wass and it was a very touching and motivational. It was probably the most touching moment i experienced all weekend work. Yeah. That’s. An outstanding story. And in a in a board meeting. And what was the reaction to board members? Could you see any? Oh, yeah. Physical reaction. Thank you, teo. I think they feel that the energy. So i think a lot about energy. I think that energy probably maybe is the basis of all this stuff. Let’s talk a little more about that because you think about it a lot. What do you mean about energy? You know, do you let me give you a little example? Do you have a friend whose energy is like the cold, clammy kitchen sink? You know what has been friday night with them? Right? But do you have a friend whose energies like the warm sunshine and you want to spend time with them? And one of my great fund-raising motta’s is winding down. Throw a party because what if you could make what you’re doing fun? You would trap people, teo and it board meetings air fun. If the board members enjoy getting together, if, um, if they if you could make your boar biddies into a party and let people enjoy themselves, you attract more people to your cause. And if you’re having a fund-raising of yet turned that into a party and you will bring me more money. There’s a whole lot of this attitude about, uh, being gregarious and being i mean, you changed the world by expanding your energy and influencing other people. And if boardmember zehr embarrassed about fund-raising and embarrassed about, quote, hitting up somebody or something, their energy is going to be like the clothes cold, clammy kitchen sink. So i gotta get boardmember away from their myths about fund-raising being yucky and get him pointed toward maybe friendraising so they could be excited about what they’re doing and really inspired about the work. And and there are other activities which we’ll talk about that that are appropriate around fund-raising. It’s interesting that the act of fund-raising can be seen as yucky and clammy and dirty and embarrassing and begging, even which is a very debased form of human action or the same action at same activity fund-raising can be seen is one of the most powerful shining examples of compassion and human. Yes, i’m talking with gail perry she’s, a consultant and author of the president of gale perry associates, and her book is fired-up fund-raising turn board passion into action. Gail, aside from the’s, very poignant testimonials at meetings, how else can can we in live in this thiss passion? Well, i like, i’d like to ask for members by the care. What do you mean? Just go around the table and ask or, you mean, write it out? How? Well, how logistically detail? How would we do that? Development director for hospice tried the question with her group this way, she said to our board members, and they were very stiff bunch of noone who didn’t like they thought their job is to manage money, not to raise it, you know, that kind of people, and she went around the table and she said, tell me what? Legacy you’d like to leave from serving on sport, right? They went around the table. Whoa. And he said you would have thought i’d open the floodgates. She said she had never seen such emotion in such passion in these people and she said she changed way have a meeting she had had with these people in three years in a again a very telling story. Gale, we actually we have a call and i haven’t even said the number. Look at this. If you’d like to talk to gail are calling number is eight. Seven seven for eight xero for one, two zero, eight, seven, seven. Forty xero for one to zero and we have a caller. What is your name, please? Hi. My name is marion marion. Hi. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. What’s. Your question for gail might. My question is, what are boardmember sze? We’ve made the mistake. Scale is already, uh, discussed in terms of we didn’t pre educate them about the fund-raising aspect. I guess going forward, you know, live and learn. How do we go forward in picking board members? How do we screen them and educate them before we picked them that this is going to be part of their job duty. And also does she have any ideas in terms of resources that we could use to get people over this hump of feeling like fund-raising is yucky because i agree with friendraising legally, maybe the goal is to ask those friends for money, and how do we educate our board members appropriately? Barry and i’m going to ask youto take the answer off off off line on the air because you’re breaking up a little bit, but we have your questions. Thank you very much for calling again the number the number to call is eight seven seven for eight xero for one to xero gale, what about the marin’s? First question on on screening board members? Well, let me give you an example. I’m chair of the board governance committee for statewide boarding here in north carolina, and we were literally a fund-raising board and we have changed our mission to write be much more specific about fund-raising and it’s, my job to be the rude i’m sorry, it’s, my job to be in charge of the boardmember recruitment process, not surprised, and so we’ve had people in action all over the state all year and, you know, feel feeling and potential boardmember and i have gotten off the phone with thes women that we’re enlisting, and i said, listen, i just want to go over with you, the expectations, and i don’t you to be surprised i said the really number one job of boardmember xyz to be leaders in their local fund-raising event in their local towns and do you have any problem with calling people for sponsorships and blah, blah, blah? And they’re very explicit to him, and they usually say, no, i’m happy to do that, and then i say and, you know, i just want to let you know that most of the board members almost all of us are contributing at the thousand dollar level is trailblazers and out of what be surprised about that either? And do you think that’s, something you could consider and the people i talked to said, yeah, i think i can consider that so it’s been it’s been amazing? That has been so easy for me to talk about it because it can be embarrassing, but somehow i’m not the person who enlisted them. I’m sort of like the policeman to screen them before they come on the board because they want to be accepted into this group of very high powered women, and they don’t want any surprises, and so they’re pretty grateful for the for the conversation with me, and they’re really what about putting these expectations in writing nothing that’s very helpful. So after you’ve gotten their verbal but there’s, nothing there a lot of organizations that have lots of written expectations that board members have signed and nothing happened. Yeah, well, ok, of course, that the writings need to be enforced mohr essential than the riding it out. Okay, think about it because you gotta oddball people or get him on the phone and very direct people don’t read stuff anyway, right? Well, but so are you suggesting a conversation and then something in writing? Onda writing, of course, needs to be enforced. People don’t enforce stuff going just although i do know a couple of boards that they give their boardmember xero sort of a report card at there place every board meeting about where they stand on their commitment. Yeah, well, i think we’re going to talk later. That’s wonderful! We’ll talk later and we’ll talk later in the hour about self assessment in just a minute, we have left before a break. Gale, can you share with our caller the sum of the second question cem resource is for making fund-raising more appealing. Yeah, and if i could suggest a my website gai o perry dot com, i have a ton of articles, uninspiring board members and lots of different techniques in conversations to stage with them to help them change their attitude about fund-raising i think you need to have a frank fear of convert xero fund-raising ization, um, and that i think that’s very healthy and what you call it cleansing moment, so let him throw up about it. Uh, and then you’ve gotta have a conversation about abundance versus scarcity and about the importance of optimism and the connection to their passion and then friend making such a big deal because, frankly, i held my speak all over the country on this, and i’ll tell everybody i would rather have a friend to my cause than a donor. Excellent gail, we’re going to take a break. Those resources are available at gail perry dot. Com and you’ll also find a link to those resources, which are which are excellent. I was through them on my block it mpg a dv dot com under the show today’s show post we’re going to take a break after the rake. Of course, gail parry stays with us and hope you do too more with gail perry is coming up first. Pursuant, they have the replay of the break through fund-raising webinar it is up and it’s pursuing so you know that it is free if you want to break through two extraordinary fund-raising this is going to help you out, you’ll figure out the invisible obstacles that are holding you back. Affiliates here is another resource you can take advantage of if you couldn’t make the live webinar catch it now sometimes the timing doesn’t work out for our affiliates, but now you get the archive version it’s up it’s at pursuing dot com click resource is than webinars couldn’t be simpler. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for millennial fund-raising how about a game show in a local place as a fundraiser? That’s what these bees are spelling bee concert stand up comedy live music, dancing check out their video it’s that we b e spelling dot com very cool events now time for tony’s take two. I love naps and get off my back about it. Yes, it’s two weeks in a row, back off, it’s my show i’ll do whatever the hell i want and i’m a fan of napping you only need research says about twenty minutes toe work more efficiently for the rest of your workday so give in to that post lunch slump. Naps are encouraged all over the world and my video has links to research the twenty minute research. And i’ve got a link to worldwide nap culture and also a link to a video that i did on minute sweets when i was at the d f w airport, where i wake up from an in sweet nap and i review that service minute sweets at airports, they’re they’re cool. I got a link to that also, the video is at tony martignetti dot com all about naps gotta love him. That is tony steak too live listen, love goes out were pre recorded but the love goes out on the day that the show is live then not. Now i have love, but it’s got going out now it goes out. Then this day, today in the future, the live love, everybody who’s throughout the world. We know they’re in asia. We know we got asia. Ah, we know we got california. We know you got new york, new york, they’ve been. You’ve been very consistent. New york, new york, new bern, north carolina consistent so the love goes out to the live listeners and quick on the heels of the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listening in the time shift very, very glad that you are with us. That’s the vast majority of our listening audience pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections got to do him am fm affiliate stations throughout the country later station know that will be be glad i get occasional feedback, but not too much from our am and fm stations. Let them know you’re listening. Please do a service to them and for non-profit radio our affiliate listeners throughout the country on the am and fm stations, the family of the family of stations non-profit radio i’m glad you’re with us affiliate listeners here’s the rest of gale perry on firing up your board fund-raising my guest is gail perry, the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action that is published by wiley and available at amazon. Gail, you left with a very interesting ah sort of ah, phrase, repeat that for us and let’s let’s think about that. Grantmaking i don’t want to see it. I said i would rather have a friend to my cause than a donor rather have a friend in a donor, and people are shocked when i say that it’s a little more about the reason is that i ask everybody, what will a friend do for you? You know, and friends to your cause will do everything in the world, including give money, and so maybe we do need to change our fund-raising in the friend making, because if you make friends out of your donors and bring them much more deeply into the cause and get them really involved, then they’ll stick with you for the long run, and we have a terrible problem in fund-raising ofwhat we call donorsearch trish in which is, of course, the fact that donors give once and then they slip away. Or give twice and they don’t stick around. I mean, do you know that the donor attrition and i do not know them, but before you, before you cite wth, um, i do know that it’s it costs a lot more time and money to find a new donor than it does to treat well and retain an existing donor. You know, i was reading some statistic. They said it was it cost ten times more to get a new donor or a new customer for business than it does to retain one of those attrition way halling statistic is that across the board, the probability that i will make a second gift, your organization, after i made the first one, is only fifty percent at really that’s the high fifty percent, really some other studies cited even lower than that. And so i would say that non-profits are failing miserably, a customer service and donorsearch so therefore maybe maybe maybe we do need to focus on our current donors and love him a lot and involving more daily rather than going out and beating our heads against the wall in the much harder work bringing and, of course, every organization is going to have their own statistic, which they certainly should be tracking their own their own donor, tricia, while they ought to be, i think, tracking their own donor attrition on dh if they find that number to be hi, that percentage to be hi. What? What can they be doing, teo? To reduce that to reduce the attrition? Got lots of things they could do you that wee hollow. How old movement in fund-raising called donor-centric fund-raising and that there was just a twitter chat on that topic that i was following a little while ago. Donor-centric fund-raising means that you are thinking about your donor rather than yourself all the time. And you communicate with your donor frequently with cheerful news about the results that you’ve achieved in the world with their gift. And you do everything you can to make the donor feel passionate and connected. You invite, um, two special things you send him special mailings. You you do not, uh, meaningful information about what you’re doing does not include a boring newsletter because studies show that most donors fund that non-profit newsletters are boring and they don’t read. Um and you know, somewhere some organizations have what they call a donor appreciation of the end if something signs boring that sign sporting, i’d rather go to a barbecue. Some eyes have to settle, celebrate the donors, but not to a donor appreciation of. So i think non-profits need to think a lot more entrepreneurially about what donorsearch customer service really looks like and be creative with whatever the organization does in terms of programming to bring violent, bring donors in so programming communications. Well, thankyou statistics show that the phone call thank you probably is the most powerful to keep a donor giving and connected, and i think one of the best ways well, i don’t know. Ah, great way for donors for board members to be involved. Eyes making those thank you calls. Absolutely. I have some clients who do that, others don’t but just a simple just called to say thank you not to ask for anything more, not even to invite you, but just to say thank you, right? And i’ll be. Burke is the great canadian researcher has done a study after study on the statistical results of what happens when boardmember say thank you and interfere, make a phone call to say thank you and hurt her very first study that she’s repeated over and over with many different sides organizations. Here’s the first study is amazing, she’s working with the canadian paraplegic association and they were doing a phone mail campaign all across canada, and the average gift of this campaign was twenty six dollars. And she did a test and had the board members make a thankyou phone call within twenty four hours after the gift was received to one out of every ten donors on that big campaign. So they they made their phone calls. The boardmember had a great time. They enjoyed it. It was theory well orchestrated. Five months later, they re solicited both group, the group that hadn’t gotten a phone call and the groups that had gotten a phone call. And so guess how much muchmore money? The people who were phone called game i don’t know, did a double thirty nine percent there, nine percent more from the ten percent so here’s proof that boardmember can directly impact the bottom line and fund-raising without having to ask for money, right? And that’s what we alluded to earlier it’s, not it’s. Not all about asking. Oh, and so that’s that’s what all of my message is all about? And i think border treats around the country, and i’m very popular with boards because i give them easy ways to make a difference and fund-raising that don’t involve asking, so they like me and also try to turn the retreat into a party and they like that. Yes, well, you’re very popular with tony martignetti non-profit radio, but we got to call you before i had announced the phone number to call. Well, i’ve been a little tweet out a minute ago, you know, thereby calling like that she’s tweeting while she’s talking to me on the phone. Now, what about that previous guest? I had alice march, the attention factor and that’s that’s not good practice norvig i’m sure you did it on a break. Did it break? But the number to call if you do want to talk to my guest. Gail perry is eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero and gail is the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action. What else? Gail? Besides the simple and the thing that something that everybody would love to do besides those simple and pleasant, thank you phone calls, how else can we engage board members? That is not a direct solicitation. Well, one of the when i was writing my book, i interviewed a lot of the bank of directors, and one one person just said something so tellingly, she said, if i could just get my board members open doors, that that would make my make my life so much easier, but they are embarrassed about opening doors, and they think it’s all about money, and they won’t do it. And so let’s, let’s give some thought about how boardmember can open doors in a way that is easy for them and playful and fun and is like throwing all their friends onto the bandwagon rather than being stiff and awkward cause you know, i like i like the metaphor of a bandwagon latto boardmember that everybody they know, especially their family and close friends, needs to know that they are very excited about thiscause, and they spend a lot of time on this call, and i’ll tell, i’ll tell boardmember that, um, you know you’re familiar with the concept, of course, of barrel marketing and the notion that ideas are viruses and they spread and hotel boardmember they need to be sneakers everywhere they go, they need to be sneezing on everybody, you know, to spread a cunt contagious epidemic of happy news about the work that they’re organizations doing to make the world a different place, a better place. So that’s just asking them remember, laugh then light back-up thinking they understand the concept of sneezing on everybody, they know if they can do that, so we have to we have to in order to help them sneeze properly. The have found out that board members don’t know what to say. If you really think about the good book, they don’t know what to say and that even boardmember have come to me and they say for when i have a chance to talk to somebody what i talk about, wait before we talk about what it is you want them to say, who is that they should be talking to, well, sneezing on who they need every boardmember even if they say they don’t know any quote, wealthy people unquote, every boardmember has relationship that can help forward their organization, it might be with a church group or a club or a foundation or corporation or maybe they’re wealthy. And what about their co workers? Well, their coworkers too, although sometimes co workers, um, is your employee anyway, sometimes that can be a little touchy. However many businesses adopt causes for their employees to get involved in. Okay, that is part of a team building so it’s, very broad, mostly personal relationships, personal networks, and this is this is a country back-up all the social networks that any one person has. I mean, i’ve got my hairdresser, i’ve got my dry cleaner, you know, i’ve got my extended family, which is very large professional friends, social friends, you know, most of these people know that i’m wildly passionate about a couple of causes and that they’re always invited right now, your advice is your advice, gail is gail don’t matter that’s why they went down to a party it’s a matter of getting boardmember into a different spirit about their call, okay, but what should they be? What should they specific? Find a spirit of inviting people on a spirit of sneezing everywhere, talking about it and not being afraid or embarrassed about talking. And what should they be saying? Gale? What specifically? Well, you know, like the women’s center last night we talked about wait, we did a little bit of messaging, we did it, we did a mingle exercise, and i asked everybody in the room to get up out of his chair and find another boardmember and just tell him why they care so on, and we did that three different times, they find three different boardmember zor four different board members and just shared a conversation that while they cared, and so i think, what a boardmember should talk about it. Why think here about the organization? Because that is an impact statement it’s not specific, it usually doesn’t have programs and services and data, and it has an emotional story that comes from the heart. Give us an example of a statement like that. Well, i believe in the women’s center because alright, i’m involved this organization on the passion about, i think politics for hobby and it’s a pack and, you know, i’m a active democrat and also it’s all fundraisers to be active in. Any politically and either side, because it’s good it’s good, it helps your fund-raising at multiple levels, i’m passionate about the democratic collison selecting women office, and i just believe that when mohr women are in the general assembly of north carolina, we have better laws for children, for victims, for the environment, and women deserve the voice and they need the voice. And so that’s my personal opinion about why i think my organisation is important, okay? And so the women, they’re people, they could say, you know, i’m just so worried because these these homeless women and children are the most fragile people in our society, and they’re right in our backyard, and it breaks my heart to see him, and we really need help and it’s an ideal way of opening a conversation about the organization that you’re so passionate about and bringing more friends to it that’s the whole objective and you know it say, boardmember don’t have to have a big each prepared right. They can just talk about their own personal opinion about what’s important, and they could do that because they’re not going to forget that they might forget the mission statement in the three million marketing messages, but they’ll remember why they care, you know, what’s another way, way, actually, before we move on to the other additional ways, i do wantto put a disclaimer in that gale’s evidence of me. I mean, advice of sneezing is contrary to the centers for disease control recommendations that your sneeze into your elbow that is not. She does not want to seize a terrible shoretz you sneeze openly broadly, and the b aerosol ing your good message throughout the subways and your community do not sneeze into your elbow. Gail, how else again? Thiss to me, i think, is the crux of our whole conversation. Ways specific ways that board members can be engaged. That is not a solicitation. How else? Alright, now two of my favorite ways our host tours and host small social um, i think it’s just thinking your temple non-profit if every single boardmember hosted on event in their home just to introduce their friends to the cause no soliciting, just introduce. Um, just think what networks your organization would open forth for the future. Boardmember, for example, we had a new director of the carolina ballet here in north carolina and almost like a ballet boardmember and i had a porch party to invite introduce people to the new artistic director and it was way had about twenty people who came and forty people invited. And you have a very big porch. Yeah, well, having a big old southern front porch. I have a lot of parties here in new york city. We have a balcony. Party would be a boardmember in the executive director squeezed onto a balcony. It’s about fourteen inches wide deep. But that’s that’s only applies here. Wait. We have a national audience listening, right? Not your we certainly do. In fact, that i have a porch party really goes over well in texas and some of other places i worked. But from that porch party, the ballet got eventually a wonderful new boardmember and a major donor. And it was the first time these people had been introduced to the ballet and i the boardmember didn’t have to do anything. All i had to do was have a little party and tell everybody that needed to meet this hot new gun town. So it was very easy. And it was i wasn’t very one. Self conscious are anything. See, the problem is that boardmember think it’s all about money, they’re not going to do it because they’re energy’s gonna clam up, and they’re going to feel self conscious and awkward, and they’re going to back away it’s, not about money, it’s, about introductions, right? What about making friends? Because even if people can’t give, they may have other relationships they can offer that can open doors. And if you think about the vast possible network that your organization could make use of, its better it’s, good to think in a very broad picture. Yeah, we have to take a break. My guest is gail perry, the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action. Take this break, please stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s, aria finger do something that orc. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. Gale, let’s, let’s. Spend our remaining minutes talking about let’s. Get at least just one more idea how boardmember is khun do something fund-raising related. That’s not a direct solicitation. Yeah, something else that i find very helpful. I call it the v i p prospect game. Always like to make everything into a game for boardmember because it’s sounds a little bit more interesting and fun. And you’re gonna explain what the viper prospect game is, right? Okay, no dark in jail today and here’s the but the issue i’m tackling is that board staff always asked the board over and over for names of people and everybody boardmember every boardmember starts to give ten names san and boardmember won’t do it because they don’t know what’s gonna happen to these people after they name has turned our turned him. So what i do as i tell everybody to take out a sheet of paper that they do not have to turn in and just think for a minute, see if they could make a list of up to ten people who could catapult your organization to a whole new level catapults. And i’m not talking about messing around. And on and then i’m quite i give about five minutes and our mind and that these three people could be representative corporations. They could be a state attorneys, they could be government agencies are elected officials, they could be individuals, corporations, foundations, united club social club um, and i try to broaden the basis for the board members to consider all the possibilities of relationships they have, they could catapult their organization, and so i give them practice, right, creating a prospect list and thinking about this without being self conscious, that they have to turn in the name, and then that step one step two is that i asked them to turn to the person next to them and just discuss one of the names on one of their lives. So what i’m doing that there is giving them practice losing from prospect identification to actually considering strategy and it’s, a low key, low pressure exercise that help support members, get them warmed up to the whole idea of thinking big, talking about specific individuals and then moving to strategy of how we can open the door and cultivate a deeper relationship with this entity or this person. And what i do after the exercises that i’ve tried to create a viper task force committee and of the board members to need after the retreat because we used to do this in a retreat for man meet after the retreat and come up with the prospect lift and the staff is going yes, thank you, thank you, thank you, because the staff has been trying to get the board members to do this forever, but the way they were being approached made the board members feel uncomfortable and the board members would back away. So again, you know, master, a playful, lighthearted approach to a topic that can be very scary for people has been helpful. Yeah, we just have about two minutes left. What about board members that aren’t going to jump on board with this? They’re they’re just so let’s call them just difficult board members, they’re not coming on board with these with these ideas. How do we manage those? Well, you know, i started managing my expectations. Um, i think it any board, you’re gonna have a handful of people who are dead weight and if you beat yourself up about trying to get these people at you’ll kill yourself. I just been tryingto tryto keep him quiet on and hope they don’t cause any disruption. And then i’ll pull out my term limits to make sure that we can rotate them off the board. Yes, written term limits, which also need to be enforced. Absolutely latto don’t. Okay, what if eso you you’re really so your advice is just bide your time until the term limit ends, and it could be in the beginning of their term? Well, you know, i think i have a friend who was is in the second director he when he had boardmember you weren’t showing up doing what they needed to do, he would go meet with him and he would say, you know, is there another way you would like to be involved with our organization or serve our cause? Because since you can’t quite do the boardmember job well and i say that, and he said they were relieved because they were feeling guilty. Yes, they felt guilty and didn’t want to let the organization down, and i thought that peer pressure is a huge motivational factor because nobody wants to look embarrassed in front. Of their peers. Everybody wants to do come to that board meeting prepared and having done their list that they said they would do so i find pierre pressure very, very helpful. And so you have to board meetings, have to praise the people who are performing, and you have to honor and recognize them. And i think i think it’s all about motivation and team building. Yeah, we have to leave it there. I’m sorry. Our time is up. My guest has been gail perry, consultant as president of gale perry associates and author of fired-up fund-raising published by widely available on amazon piela one. Thank you very much for being on the show. Thank you. Yeah. Remind people that my web site is gail perry dot com and their lots of articles on resource is there that you can? All right. Thank you very much. Ok, bye, gail. Next week, who needs campaign counsel? Peter panepento walks us through his report on self-funding campaigns. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. Shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein, here with me next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great notice. I didn’t say crushing. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. 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Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 17, 2017: Your Board As Brand Ambassadors

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Roger Sametz: Your Board As Brand Ambassadors

Does your board know the basics of your brand? Do you? How many volumes in your story library and how do you build your board’s talent at sharing them? Roger Sametz is president and CEO of Sametz Blackstone Associates, a brand consultancy. (Originally aired March 20, 2015)

 

 


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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s st patrick’s day happy lafell napor egg. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of busan. O sis, if you made me cotton up to the idea that you missed today’s show you’re bored as brand ambassadors. Does your board know the basics of your brand? Do you? How many volumes in your story library and how do you build your boards? Talent at sharing them? Roger sametz is president and ceo of sam it’s blackstone associates, a brand consultancy on tony’s take two naps that’s, right? I said, naps. What about it? My show? I do whatever the hell i want. We’re gonna talk about naps. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here’s your board as brand ambassadors. Roger sametz is with me in the studio. He is the president and ceo of sam it’s, blackstone associates, boston based brand consultancy integrating brand editorial and digital strategy with design and digital media they work with academic research and cultural non-profits as well as corporations roger rights and speaks widely on brand building he’s at sam it’s on twitter and his company is at sametz se m e t z dot com. Roger sametz welcome to the studio hyre glad to be here. Pleasure, but it have you ah, why do we need board members to be brand ambassadors? Why important? Well, a lot of board members, you know, sign up to be born members and given of their time and money and expertise, and they don’t actually think they have to do more than that. But there’s no marketing or development department in any non-profit of any size that actually doesn’t need help, and board members have networks, so to the extent that they could be out there and actually talking to their networks in productive ways, are opening the doors for the fund-raising staff for being an extension of the marketing staff, that’s all to the good, and what does it mean to be a brand ambassador? Well, to be a brand ambassador means you have to sort of first sounds tautological. Understand the brand so that you could be out there and actually talk about the organization and what it means and what its vision is and how you might, you know, convince other people too participate, donate or even be another boardmember and this is something that can be trained, since, since people don’t come to the organization most likely with the skills, they can learn them, of course, well, boardmember is generally have no aptitude for learning things, or they might not be on boards, so sure, and a lot of the work we do with boards actually happens in ah boardmember ing setting, or perhaps a retreat setting or some sort of special meeting because if you come into a board and you know you’re the finance guy or you’re the you know, you’re the lawyer who helps out or, you know, help out and, you know, some particular aspect going out and chatting may not be something that you’re actually conversant in or have done, how come they’re not? We’re not natural ambassadors, brand ambassadors because it just come naturally? Well, i think part because we love the organization well, part of it may be that some people, of course, are better actually having conversations and drawing people out and others. But leaving that to one side, people come into organizations because they know some chunk of it. You know, you come in because you care about the kid’s education problems you came or you care about, you know, their hunger programs or something. But you may not know the full scope of an organization. You may only know that sort of bit that, you know, touched you. So part of the education process is getting people up to speed on the whole of the organization, and then, you know, coaching them like you would coach anyone to anything to be more comfortable. All right, on dh to start this coaching training we need we need to recognize that there’s a gap between i think, the way they weigh the organs, they perceive the organization on the way they like it to be perceived. The way they describe it on the way they’d like the organization to be perceived. Help him. See that there’s. Some dis constants there. Sure. I mean, often leadership in an organization or the person charged with stewarding. The board is pretty clear. That their boardmember zehr not really good ambassadors. And then there are plenty of board members who, when asked to go out and, you know, be ambassadors, sort of look at the clock or look at the floor or say, not my thing. Um, but there’s a sort of an easy exercise that one can actually do and it’s sort of fun. So take a board meeting, take twenty minutes onboarding pass out a bunch of four by six index cards and ask boardmember is on one side. Write down how you actually describe this organization, the friends of yours at a cocktail party or a barbecue or something. Give them seven minutes or whatever to do that, and then ask them on the other side of the index card to write down what they might like to see if the local newspaper we’re writing an article on the organization so typically a newspaper will write, you know, x organisation comma, eh blank comma. So, you know, there was three or four words there that come after the name of the organization that are sort of pinned to it in the first paragraph of some article, so ask the board. Members, what would you like to see their so the first side of the card is, how would you actually talk about this to some peer in a cocktail party? The second side is sort of this distillation, this aspirational take on how you’d like to actually have the organisation described. So you do that, and the reason you actually using index cards is so tony who’s sitting next to janice can’t say, oh, you know what jenna said so people have to commit to writing on dh. Then you go around the room and you share what people have written on both sides of the cards and two things. If history is our guide will happen, you either end up with or either or both, you’ll end up with very disconnected descriptions of the organization as you go around the room you start to get thes looks like, oh my god, we really are not singing off the same page, and then when you get to the second side of the card, the aspirational side, you’ll get these completely different visions, so just doing this exercise will make pretty clear to people that, hey, we could use some training. Yeah, sounds it sounds very eye opening, especially the aspirational side, the way you’d like the organization to be described. But in your experience, you see lots of lots of disparate answers to those. Well, you do. I mean, boardmember czar recruited or they sign up, but they’re not part of leadership. I mean, they’re not sitting in the, you know, ceo or executive director’s office, so they may never have actually been in on the vision of the place. So there’s some catch up to do ok? And, uh, they need to become masters of the the brand, the organization’s brand. What are what are some elements of brand this a very ethereal thing that a lot of people regrettably reduced to logo, logo in tagline or something? Dahna we know it goes a lot deeper than that i’ve had guests on who have made that very clear, but what are some of these? Whatever some of the concepts around in brand that we’re trying to grasp? Okay, so if you think of brand not as the label on the toothpaste box and certainly brand in the context of non-profits is fairly recent and there’s still a fair amount. Of resistance around that because there will be many people who think it’s too commercial. But if you think a brand, not as to your point not is the logo a locally sort of a symbol of the brand. But if you think about it as what an organization means, what it promises, the expectations it sets well, then that’s a whole different way of looking at brand so boardmember is have to sort of understand that, but took sort of get to that. I have to sort of get under that hood. There are some sort of grand basics to go over. So we started meeting to go to talk about what is an organization. Means so you need to understand. Okay. What’s the organization’s vision. They may not be clear on that. What are our areas of focus? Which means, you know, if we’re an anti hunger organization, how we actually, you know what? One of the areas in which we’re working to accomplish eradicating hunger. What of the roles we play? You could be a convener. You could be, you know, an inventor. You could be any number of things. But constituency out there are not gonna remember seventeen programs that you have, so you need to sort of boyle is down into a finite number. I don’t know three, five areas of focus and rolls that people can actually remember. And then the sort of more evocative side of this what are the brand attributes that you want? Associate it. So these air generally adjective. So to take commercial metaphor here, you know, volvo has always been associated with safety. Then they sort of managed the product and brand slightly differently, and they kept safety and added performance. So organizations tend to have attributes that they own that are already associating with them, and attributes that they would like to have associated with them, which will call aspirational. So if you work through these areas of focus, the mission envision the rolls and the attributes both owned an aspirational you get a pretty good sense of the underpinnings of how an organization can be presented externally. All right, we need to dive deeper into some of this because it sounds i mean it’s very basic to the organization, the its promise. What are the expectations? I know when you didn’t mention that i know is part. Of it, how do you measure success? This is not something that, you know, if it’s not already clear, we’re not gonna be ableto answer all these questions in a in a board meeting is strategic planning up a part of this process? Well, strategic planning certainly could be part of the process, but leadership also may know some of this, but the board may not, so no, some of it so you certainly could have sessions where you educate or you could use the board, too, actually surface these by putting a big post its around the room and actually putting these topics down and writing down different suggestions and then sort of figuring out where you are, okay, we’re gonna go out for a break and when we return, of course, roger and i’m going to keep talking about your board as brand ambassadors stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Let’s do some live listener love and let’s do it starting abroad. Tokyo, japan and multiple tokyo, japan and musashino in japan. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea always so loyal soul. Unbelievable! Anya haserot to our listeners in seoul and in china, we’ve got none jing and guangzhou konnichi wa live listen love here in the u, s st louis, missouri, sioux falls, south dakota, san francisco, california, new york, new york welcome each of you and, of course, podcast pleasantries to those listening wherever you are at whatever time on whatever device pleasantries to the podcast listeners over ten thousand of you and to our affiliates, affiliate affection love each of you let’s have a little rations on non-profit radio an abundance of them i admire. I like now. I like a little rations. Roger i yesterday i was speaking at a at a a present. I did a presentation on hosting a panel, and i met a boardmember for ah who’s on the big apple circus board. I don’t know if you’re familiar with big circus, there sure are a lot to new york and one of the things she lamented is that they’re not too well known, but i think she was an excellent brand ambassador because within a minute she had me understanding how first, reminding me that it is a non-profit which a lot of people don’t know, but that they use clowning techniques to help children in a bereavement program that they have, and also a clown, techniques in education, on some of the outreach in the school programs that they have, and she ticked off like three or four things within a minute or a minute and a half that i had no idea of the big apple circus did. Um, and i just i i complimented around being ah ah, an outstanding bruh broad no, outstanding brand ambassador that was jenny keim, virginia chambers kind. But jenny keim is what she goes by. I was really struck teo to meet a riel what i thought was a real good brand ambassador boardmember well, it seems like she was pretty clear on as we were talking about before the break the organization’s rolls? Yeah, it’s areas of focus, she made it clear to you, you know that it wasn’t on profit, which could have been ambiguous, and she clearly engaged you. So whether she comes by this naturally or it’s been soaking in it or had some training you, but i don’t know, but that is what we’re aiming for. I urged her i told her that if her fellow board members are not as good ambassadors as she, that she should listen to this exact show because you were coming on the next day, just yesterday, some of these basics that we were just talking about seems to me that the organization should already know all the stuff that you mentioned mission values, expectations who with constituents he should already be known factors leadership certainly should know all of that, but sometimes they actually get a little bit down in the weeds. So if you’re an organization that has seventeen different programs or you’re an academic research organization that has seventeen different labs or whatever, people often sort of stay at that program level and don’t actually think about how can we group thes into, you know, sort of higher level categories or buckets that people could more easily understand because they’re so focused on, you know, keeping the ship going. In the right direction, so sometimes they don’t think about that, and also there’s we determined over these over the years, people within non-profits see their value as self evident, you know, i work here, i believe in it. You should believe in it too, and they don’t quite understand that it actually takes more work to get someone who’s only connected tangentially or not connected at all to understand it. So there’s work to do to move from that sort of internal. Ah, phew! Point to being externally focused, what you need to do if you’re trying to, you know, get more donors or increase your participation or, you know, whatever, with people who are not in the fold, how do you find boards take to this work? Are they enthusiastic about the idea that we’re gonna be talking about brandy and being an ambassador or however it’s described to them? How did they how did they how did they take to it? We’ve always found that people were actually quite thankful because they’re they’re nervous. They know that part of their role is to be ambassadors, but yet they don’t really know howto ambassador for might arise, yeah. So, you know, any sort of help that gets them into position of, you know, both comfort and sort of fluency so that it feels natural and not nervous about it. That’s great and a lot of the exercises that we sort of put together, they’re helped by wine there, helped by camaraderie fluid. Sure. So you could make these exercises fun. And to the extent that they actually build fluency within a specific person, they’re also building deeper engagement of your board, you know, across all the members. Do you find red or white? Wine is a better, better beverage to accompany this. And then i think people could choose either one. Is you’re you’re agnostic. Teo. Totally. Okay. Okay. Um how let’s. See, when? When organizations are coming to you for for help in this area. What kind of symptoms are they showing? How do they know they have a problem? Well, we talked about that index card exercise before the break, which is sort of a diagnostic tool. But i think organizations khun simply know they need some more help from their board members. I mean, any non-profit board needs their board to help open doors for fund-raising and that’s only gonna happen if the boardmember is, you know, comfortable in fluent and can you no understand enough to actually make that happen? No, okay? And they so is it usually the case that the organizations do recognize themselves that they’ve got some some shortcomings around their their boards participation in fund-raising sure and or is just a good idea, okay? And do you describe when you’re when you’re when you’re about to come to the board, do you describe it as we’re going? We’re going to help you, coach youto be good ambassadors? Oh, absolutely, i mean, there’s no reason to hide around this kind of people, you know, they’re ashamed of it was just one oh, no, no, they’re generally up for it, okay? All right. There are for the help askew described. Okay, um, so let’s, let’s talk a little more about some of these some of the basics of the brand there’s, some more elements to it that we haven’t talked about, like like who do we serve, where we focus on what is a mother? Sure. So so almost any non-profit is going to have a range of constituencies, so, you know we’ve been talking about donors, donors are one constituency people actually take advantage of your services and offerings. That’s, another constituency, you may have partners, you may have government agencies you may have, you know, people you’re trying to recruit as staff. So all of these people have slightly different needs about what they need to know about your organization that orders or connect in ways that make sense for them. So you need to identify constituencies and what they care about so that you can sort of rearrange things in ways that make sense for them. I mean, you would do the same thing and planning a website. You named one very interesting potential potential employees, people who use you’re hoping to recruit to the organization. Ah, a brand ambassador, boardmember could easily be talking to the next cfo or or any person, any level? Absolutely. And, you know, given that non-profits generally pay less than profit organizations, you have to want to be there. So to the extent that the brand is another reason to want to work in that work for that organization that’s all to the good. But you have to understand that in order for that to be, you know, a magnet, our next step once we’ve well have we exhausted all the basics of the brand before we go the next step, i think we have i think, if we understand, you know, areas of focus and rolls and the only thing we didn’t talk about was sort of category, which sounds a little odd, but sometimes boards have a hard time articulating what exactly are you know, are you an anti hunger organization, or are you a social services organization really instant? You find that we often find that, and so that that sort of stymies people, that that first level of conversation, if they can’t even clearly say, you know what category the organization? So it sounds simple enough, but when you sort of put to the test, it isn’t that simple, and often it actually takes some work to both evolve and then subsequently get agreement on interesting. So so that actually it’s a good agreement on so there’s differing opinion as to whether we’re we’re social service or community based? Or, you know, however, we defining ourselves, you get your getting different opinions around that you will get different opinions. And you’ll get different language, even around the same opinion can share a any chance you, khun recollect what we’re working with, that we’re working with one organization at the moment. That’s a non-profit that actually helps. Non-profits and part of the organization thinks they’re in the capacity building business, which he’s probably accurate but not particularly mellifluous to talk about and part of the organization thinks they’re in the business of shifting power and influence to change values in society. These are two very different ideas. Yeah, now they actually do both. But if you’re out there talking about it and you pick one or the other, you get a very different picture. And how does the process mediate these different opinions? Well, this would actually happen at a leadership level and not a board level one would have one would have the chats, and we do have the chats with senior leadership to sort of nail this. All right? This is very, very esoteric stuff. You’re dealing with this brand well, yeah. It’s always interesting and there’s a lot more to it. Then, you know, the star burst on the side of the toothpaste box. All right, um we once all the board members are, are comfortable with the brand basics, then we’re going to help them put together a new elevator speech, right? Sure. Ok, everybody wants one. This is a couple minutes like, i basically what i heard about the big apple circus from from ginny kind well, everyone, you know, elevator speeches just shorthand for what’s your high level message, but implied in this it’s the notion of being able to have everybody on the same page. So one template that you can use actually comes from a game that some people may have played earlier in life called mad libs, which was, if you remember, there was sort of a story on a pad and there were blanks, and you were asked to fill in a noun or a verb or an adverb, and then when the story i read back, you know, some level of hilarity and because of the words don’t make any sense. So when you do this on a brand focused level, you’re actually looking for more specific things, so the template runs something like it will try to draw this in radio air, okay, for whatever constituency, so if you’re an arts organization. You could be art’s interested. Public could be prospective donors. Could be artists? No, for ex constituency. Your organization is what? So that’s, where you get that sort of category answer and you provide another blank. What do you provide? And then how we’re through, how do you actually provide it? And then what value to deliver? And how is the organization worthy of participation? And how is it worthy of support? So these are all blanks. So, again, it’s an exercise with big sort of post its up around the room, and you put lots of different answers in and then the board together sort of calls. Okay, what are the best response is here. And then you start to sort of string it together, along with adjectives that actually could come from your brand attributes. So an example might be so let’s. Take, for example, wgbh, which is a public television stations radio station in balkan. There we worked with. So the big category answer might be public media powerhouse or content engine, which were both a lot more evocative than television and radio stations. Um, the second part of that might be trusted. Guide to new worlds and new ideas that sze what the organization is. Yes, of course. So it’s a more evocative answer than a literal answer. Yeah, but that hey, you’re out being ambassadors so you can certainly be we’re not trying to divine this is not a definition that is not a dictionary process and it’s, not a tax form, okay, you know, in terms of areas, well, they’re they’re in news and drama there in public affairs therein kids programming, they’re in science, so you get to nail the sort of areas of focus they have signature programs like masterpiece everybody knows downtown and that what do they provide? They provide opportunities for exploration and interaction and an independent voice, especially if you’re talking about the news and public affairs programming. Where did they do this? Well, it’s locally, the boston area but now that everything streams it’s much farther, and of course, it’s multi platform so there’s a more complicated answer toa wear then there might have been in years past, and then you can end with, you know, it’s for you and supported by you. Or you could take another completely different example i referenced anti hunger organization a while ago so the constituency might be for those who care about in this case, we’re talking about massachusetts seven hundred thousand people in massachusetts who actually don’t know where their next meal is coming from. So that’s the constituency, the people who care about that and then project bread what’s the category, the leading statewide anti hunger organization. And what do they do? Offer fresh approaches, ending hunger? What are they? By pioneering funding, facilitating a range of programs and through education advocacy, they actually have programs that meet people where they are rather than just handing food out of back of a truck, and then you get into that next level of details? Well, you know, how do they actually do this? So it’s programs that are in the community programs that are schools with kids, programs that are building sustainable food ecosystem? So then you get into more detail and then what’s the benefit. Well, it’s all the sort of fulfill a vision that’s the opposite of hungry isn’t just full it’s healthy, which then musicians the organization differently against sort of just emergency food and nutrition versus full nutrition vs and then you go, you bring it down to donors, which is with the support of people. They also sponsor a large hunger walk. Those who walk and our corporate partners, we’re able to eradicate hunger in the state. All right, two two excellent examples. A little long, but but i think the examples help help us teo to fill in the in the template. Um, okay, we’re going to give ah, roger. We’ll give you a break for a couple minutes and there’s going to be mohr with roger coming up talking about brand ambassadors and tony’s take too, of course, before that more with roger’s sam it’s coming up first pursuing do you need to open a convo in your office on sustaining e-giving or persuade someone that it’s valuable or see for yourself? How much money gets raised? Maybe you go crazy for infographics on your pinterest boards? Is that you, mr or ms pinterest? Pursuing has a new infographic on sustaining giving it’s at pursuing dot com click resource is then intra graphics couldn’t be simpler, and we’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising how about a millennial game show in a local club as your fundraiser? That’s what? These bees are spelling bee concert standup comedy live music dance check out the video it’s at wi be e spelling dot com now for tony’s take do as i said, we’re talking about naps in praise of naps i’m a big fan of napping research shows you only need about twenty minutes to feel refreshed and be more efficient, and your brain is working better it’s getting better oxygen and blood flow. However, i’m not ashamed to say that i do not unfree quickly go longer than the research recommends. Naps should be encouraged in offices, i think. Why? Why? Why do we fight that drowsy drunk feeling after lunch? You can’t keep your head up, you know what i’m talking about? Givin put your head down and when you’re home, take advantage, indulge i even have a favorite napping blanket. I think everybody does. I hope that i don’t know i do, but i think lots of people do. I hope this mine is soft, it’s cotton, the soft as just the right weight. Very important the weight. Check out the video in praise of naps at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two you’re probably glad it’s over here’s more roger sametz. Roger. Sam it’s. Feeling a little under the weather, but he’s mustering? Well, if you hear your silence that’s ah that’s cutting rogers mikes that we can give him a cough. But he’s made the trip down from boston. Thank you for doing that. It’s. Been a tough boston winter, as most of your listeners probably already know we do. And it’s not been much better here. Today is the first day of spring. I believe march twentieth and it’s snowing outside. We look out the window right now, there’s pretty brisk snow coming down in new york city. Bob all right, anything more you want to add? We don’t need another example. But anything more you want to add about this this template, but helps with the elevator speech? Well, i think it does two things. I mean, you actually end up with an elevator speech is not going to be eloquent language by putting things up in this mad libs posted format, but it will give you the content. So then, you know, either some sub committee of the board or staff can then be charged with actually, you know, wordsmithing. It so everybody likes it, okay? But getting the content down is important, and then the other thing it does, of course, which all of these exercises do is get boardmember is engaged. So to the extent that people sitting around a board table or wherever you’re sitting in doing this are participating in developing messages it’s already getting into their heads. So we stand a much better chance of people becoming comfortable with something if they’ve had a part in evolving it much more so than if you just took, you know, a piece of paper and slid it across the table, foisted on them and say, memorized, memorized this on dh have it prepared for the next for the next meeting? Yes, quite. Okay. All right, so they’re involved in the involved in the creation of it. Um, this is going tio this is one of the tools that were empowering board members with basically i mean, this is what we’re trying to make comfortable, confident brand ambassadors and, uh, another tool that you recommend his stories. Yes, well, you know boardmember sze, can we, like anybody, can sort of talk about an organization either from the top. Down or the bottom up. So the top down would be starting with your elevator speech. And then presumably, if you haven’t run to get another ice cube, the person you’re talking to, you might tell a story another boardmember might swell around it a barstool and actually just start with a story and end up with the elevator speech. So a bottom up approach, okay, but this only really works if people have the stories one way or the other, and what happens is boardmember because they’ve experienced the organisation themselves in one way or another, you know, they might have a story, um, but they might have on ly that one story and, you know, the other board members would have different stories, so the extent that you can sort of pull these stories and even get a story library going, perhaps online, internally online, then people have more things that they can talk to and they can sort of pivot. But if you want to sort of think about a story there’s, of course, another template to try to actually do that, and you could sort of start by thinking, okay, if if this were a movie title. What would be the name of the movie? And that will lead you immediately to some sort of evocative top end to the story. And then, of course, you want to talk about, well, who’s in the story, who’s the protagonist. So this could be a person or it could be an organization. Then the next step to think about is okay. So where what’s the problem? What? What has to get solved? And then where does your organization come in? So what programs or services get marshaled to help solve that problem and then what’s the end of the story? And is thie ending? You know, finite? Or is the benefit ongoing? So you can use that very simple template and really think about okay? How does your organization, you know, participate in either other organizations or other people’s lives to make a difference? Where where else might these stories emanate from your example, was board board members. Maybe each person has a story or something, but they can also filter up from the program’s staff that’s out, actually doing the work. Um, i know a lot of organizations like to invite people who are benefiting from the work the people of the organization is serving, have them come to board meetings and tell their story sure, you could absolutely do that. What you’re going for is something that’s authentic where you khun, you know, show that you made a difference and that you’re not sort of, you know, overreaching, you’re not trying to say you made you more of a difference and people would believe, yeah, but sure, i mean, you know, every organization writes up profiles or highlights people, those are generally stories, whether they’re set up a stories that have sort of a, you know, beginning middle and an end that has a benefit, you know, that varies, but what you are going to make sure that you have it, you know, you have an impact statement at the end, you have a benefit to show that you know, why people should participate or why people should be donors and just, you know, give them a reason to believe we gotta get these stories down too, what under two minutes? Right? If if i’m in a conversation with somebody at a reception or something, you know, i can’t hold their interest too long list, i’m a master storyteller? Well, you might be, but yes, i think you’re right under two minutes or, you know, if you’re writing it out, you know, under two hundred words. Yeah. Okay. All right, um and you mentioned a story library like internally online. What? What is that? What you could do a story library in any number of ways. But if your organization has some sort of internal web set up that’s a great place to post them if it doesn’t have that, you know, you could just compile them. But the whole idea is you don’t want stories to just leave an individual’s heads if they’re really good and they could be shared and, you know, people can use them in conversation out there in the world. You might even be sharing them on the web. Well, with the public doesn’t have to be behind a, you know, an internet or anything, you know, a lot. Meet a lot of what we’ve been talking about because we’ve been talking in the board. Ambassador context is useful for word ambassadors, but of course, it’s useful for staff. It’s useful for senior leadership? Yeah, potential donors have thes stories air there’s quite a bit of talk among non-profits about around non-profits around around storytelling, right? And as i said earlier, you know, storytelling is simply sort of the inductive way of describing your organization that’s supposed to starting from the top down, which is sort of more than deductive way, but both are valid, and it has to do with how you’re comfortable talking with people, okay, what’s our next tool that we want teo arm, are board members within making them confident? Well, we started to talk about donorsearch let’s, let’s focus on that for a minute. So most organizations because they do more than one thing or not monolithic and as we already discussed their constituencies or not model to think either even within a donor community and if you think about major donors for the moment, they’re just not good do bees, they’re generally interested in giving money to some organization that they believe will advance goals that they personally care about. So if you take the goal around major e-giving to be connecting institutional priorities with donor passions and interests and you understand that the people aren’t monolithic and the organizations not monolithic, then it behooves. You to come up with different ways that people can connect, so this is another way that you can actually work with your board to evolve what we call ways in. So for instance, taken orchestra could be a tiny little orchestra, really big workers treyz some people are going to care about performing the traditional repertoire, some people are going to care about commissioning new music, probably a smaller number. Some people are going to care about the space that music is performed it, and you know what? What shape that’s it some people are going to care about kids education programs if there are such some people don’t care about building the audiences of the next generation, and the answer to that is yes, so some donors will connect in one way, and some donors will connect in another but it’s important that for your non-profit that you actually evolved what thes different ways in our so that if i’m, for instance, i’m going out to talk to tony, and i think he’s wants to support kids education, but he really wants to support community outreach. I’m able to actually pivot and talk to you about community outreach. Of course, implicit in all of this, and we could have talked about this at the top of the hour, is they need to listen because you’re going to have any conversation with someone outside your organization. You have to also understand where they are otherwise you’re just pushing things at them. Yeah, yeah, you’re a billboard. So you wanted you wanted to be a conversation, so you have to learn enough about the person you’re talking to two actually take what you’ve learned in terms of these areas focus and rolls and stories and mission in category and no talk to the person in terms that are meaningful to havers you like to rehearse this with boards once you once you farm doing with the tools? Is there some practice? We do a lot of role playing, which is also fun and also better served with wine. Ok, so you can set up small groups. There’s not much that isn’t isn’t helped by wine. I find my favorite is seven young blanc personally, but well, it depends whether your board meetings here in the evening at seven. Thirty in the morning. Yeah, well, bloody mary zahra possibility. No, i would not have not tried, but if their evening now most activities in life, i find very easy, well lubricated by wine. Well, you have an italian last name. I do, um but yes, a lot of these can be when you have after you evolve the kinds of things we’ve been talking about, whether it’s in small groups or people making, you know, presentations to the larger group, anything that has people actually use what we’re talking about rather than just sort of take it in because the more people use the information that we’ve been discussing, the more comfortable they ll get and them or it’s actually in their heads, and they make it their own. So never are we asking anyone to like, you know, memorize words or spew things back, it’s all about understanding that the content and the concepts and then being able to actually talk about it in words that are comfortable your own? Yeah, on your own that connect with the person that you’re actually talking with. How long is this process to build the board, ambassadors, brand ambassadors? Well, these air separate different kinds of exercises that we’ve been talking about it. And there’s, no, no fixed timeline are sequenced to any of this. You could certainly come up with, you know, three or four these workshops, depending on how often you want to meet so you know it, it may be better to do oneaccord er just because the board has other things to do and you have to hijack some time here, or you could do a concentrated session if you had, you know, a two day retreat and you, you know, take some of that time, okay? Yeah, the ways in i mean, they should be already known to the organization. There shouldn’t be anything new here in terms of identifying how you khun be supportive. Well, there’s always a difference between things that exist and actually sort of understanding it and remembering it. So if you, for instance, well, let’s, take a life sciences organization example, um, you may care about the work they’re doing in a specific disease area. I may care about how they’re using new technology. Somebody else may care about how their training scientists of the next generation. So you may know that the organization actually doing those things but you really care about that disease area that you care about. So in order for you to feel comfortable talking about the technologies that i care about, you do have to learn more about it and sort of, you know, soaking it a little bit. All right, yeah, so right, right again, everybody got their own perspective and reason that they’re with the organization. Exactly. We need to share all these and everybody’s converse and in all the ways right, because the goal of an ambassador is to be able to meet people where they are not to just go out, as you said earlier and be a billboard that, you know is inflexible and this is an electronic billboard isn’t going to change any so you need you need the information, the confidence, that fluency and, of course, the content, which is largely what we’re talking about during this hour to, you know, start someplace and be able to pivot to someplace else and, you know, not be flustered in the middle. You, you also work with boardmember is to overcome potential resistance points as their out ambassador rising? Sure. Well, i mean, everything doesn’t go smoothly. We’ve been talking about ways to make boardmember is more comfortable. That doesn’t mean you’re not goingto bump up against some donorsearch prospect that just, you know, says no or i don’t believe in you or comes up with, you know, some reason why, you know he or she should not entertain a conversation with you so there’s no guarantee it’s all going to just, you know, fall into your lap. So again, we keep coming back to role playing and the’s group sessions, but and leadership or bored or the fund-raising staff probably knows the points of resistance, so one thing the board can do is come up with what the arguments are for dispelling that. So this is a good thing to do in small groups, you could even sort of picture seeing a couple people on one side of a table in a couple of people on the other, and, you know, one side has the resistance, and the other side has to with what we’ve just been talking about, you know? The rolls and areas of focus and the impact stories try to convince the, you know, the first party. No, you’re wrong, you know, or give it another thought so that you can in fact, bring some more people into the fold. Okay, um, before we move on anything, anything more we can talk about with the with respect to these resistance points. Anything else there? Well, they’re different for every organization. I mean, we worked and some tell a story tell somebody you worked with has some are harder to overcome than others. I like stories. So for a large ballet company that we worked with. Ah, one of the points of resistance that we we heard often was, you know, i fall asleep hard to forget what the argument for that might be rather than take a nap earlier. Well, the persons of phyllis stein or whatever or, you know, write them up. We were just write them off. I fall asleep at the ballet or i fall asleep at the opera. Are we really going to get anywhere? Not necessarily. Ok, some of these you don’t get anywhere, okay? Or, you know, there aren’t any words or i don’t get the story or for modern ballet, whether isn’t a story, i really don’t get the story, so you have to explain, you probably have to actually sort of inculcated people about what they’re actually seeing in hearing. But there are some things that, yes, it’s harder to overcome. Some things are easier to overcome. So going back to wgbh, the pbs station in boston, one of things they tell you what done before you go kill the gbh story, we’re going to go out for a couple minutes, okay, give your voice a break, and we’ll come back and we’ll go right to the gbh story. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists. It’s! And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back again, too big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, as peter shankman just said, more live listener lovemore live listeners have joined us. Woodbridge, new jersey, east bridgewater, massachusetts, and brooklyn and queens, new york welcome live listen love to each of you schnoll a france bonsoir got shane i india somewhere in the uk uk unfortunately your masked we can’t tell where but we’ll presume it’s england, but live listener love to india and the u k listeners also and, uh also joining us moscow and kano, us, brazil. I apologize if i pronounced that wrong. But you know who you are listening in? Brazil also got italy, but we can’t see where you are. We don’t know what city or town i’ve been to italy four times, so i should be able to say hello in what am i missing? What am i missing? Child? Go must die. I can order a meal and i can find my way to hotels. That’s about by restaurant in hotel italian is about what i speak. You could start with bum jo know when jordan was really good. Thank you, roger. You don’t even have the italian. Name? I don’t. Thank you. Thank you. Um okay, let’s. Ah, so we were overcoming our resistance points. So anything and you were going to tell a story about wgbh? Sorry, that’s where we were. Yeah, well, it’s not so much a story as so it’s a little different from some other non-profits in that it depends not only on individual donors, it depends on sponsorship, so one goal of a particular board is actually to help with sponsorships. So many organizations, of course, do have sponsors and sponsors requires slightly different value proposition than perhaps an individual or a major donor is goingto have. So some of the areas of resistance were because it’s a public television station, for instance, i don’t want to support you because you’re too liberal. Okay, so then the board got together and came up with some arguments around that or it doesn’t congress pay for everything? Well, no, but so that’s a point of ignorance that you could then sort of overcome or isn’t your audience to old? Well depends, you know, too old. For what? And it’s also younger than you think. So there. You know, there are things out there that are often misperceptions that board members will get hit with or in fact, staff will get hit with that one can marshal arguments for so yes, that’s different than falling sleep with the ballet. How does staff support this? This whole ambassador rising process? Well, in a lot of these organizations that were working with, you know, we’re facilitating these sessions, but staff, of course, has to organize them and make them happen, and to our earlier point probably procure the wine. But an interesting side effect of all of this, not the side effect of the wine is how what comes out of these meetings then benefits staff so they’re learning right along with the board so they will be clearer on the organization. They will be clearer on some of these arguments. It will be clear they will learn new stories so there’s a definite, you know, relationship between, you know, staff on board, they’re not just there in a supportive role, it’s actually making their jobs, you know, more successful, actually, even though it’s a bra board process, the staff is vicariously elearning right and that’s a that’s a goal, even though it was not necessarily sort. Of, you know, a stated goal, but we see it happen all the time. You’re sort of raising both sides of the seesaw in the in the course of doing these exercises. Okay, then, it’s not a seesaw anymore. Both sides arising it’s some kind of rising platform. It’s just a seesaw that’s level a level level seesaw. But then that’s not really a seat it’s not really. See? So it doesn’t have a fulcrum in the middle. One side rises and the other side falls. But both sides rise. I don’t know. What’s that a jungle that’s a jungle gym. We’ll find another metaphor. Okay, beating you up, you know you don’t feel well, um, ok, we’ve we’ve we’ve covered the resistance points, and this sounds like something that would be valuable to revisit over over time, not just do once and, you know, kind of put on a shelf well, like brand building, which is also a process and not an event. All of these could be processes and not events. So to the extent that you take some of the exercise we’ve been talking about, instruction them over some period of time. It also serves an organization. Or well, to bring these back at some kinds of you have different periods, first of all, boards change, so everybody isn’t going to be always up to speed in equal way and this notion of fluency like practicing anything else, you know, piano, swimming, whatever you have to do it, so you can certainly come up with a short role playing exercises at some other point. You khun certainly revisit stories you could revisit rolls and areas of focus. All of this stuff could have a sort of rinse and repeat kind of cycle. We talked earlier on about strategic planning, something formal, possibly being a part of this. Do you find many organizations that really don’t have the basics in mastered so that they can carry on further? Well, lots of organizations have the basics and not have a strategic plan, which is fine, you know you’re not always in a strategic planning mode, but if you are, if your organization does have a new strategic plan, all of this is even more important, because there’s no stresses you playing that we bumped into that doesn’t depend on its success by having people think and act in your favor. So all of what we’re talking about on the board of the staff level is helping you to convince people to think and act in your favor, otherwise would be to plant. Just sit on a shelf. Yeah, well, they all depend on some actions. Yeah, that’s something i’ve had guests lament that a strategic plan gets done and then they’re really does just get parked on a shelf and it doesn’t live, doesn’t evolve, and the organization doesn’t really benefit from it. Other than it’s a checkmark the board can now move on to the next project. Right? So if you go back to either the ways in that we were talking about or just being sort of clear on the different aspects of the organization you could sort of back into ok here. These aspects are a strategic plan. What do people have to think and do and feel in order for this to be successful so that they will, you know, realize section to be of the plan. And then how can boardmember sze help? So sure you could bring that in as another discussion topic. Now we just have about thirty seconds left. Roger, but i want you to share with me what you love about the work that you do. Oh, all right, well, i have to think about that for a nanosecond here. I think that the top answer would be because we worked with so many non-profits and they’re in so many different fields that first of all, it’s never boring and there’s always an opportunity to help these different organizations achieve their different missions. You know, we’re all about brand building not just to build the brand, but brand building to help organizations evolve and to better navigate change and that’s just about every non-profit roger stamets president and ceo sam it’s, blackstone associates, they’re at sam it’s dot com and he’s at sam it’s. Sam eat easy on twitter. Roger. Thank you very, very much. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. You. You you must have done quite well next week. Trust me, you really have no choice. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee. Fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com. A creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. Shows social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit medio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. Buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address. Card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh. No two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for January 6, 2017: 2017 Legal Tips & This Year’s Board Retreat

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Erin Bradrick: 2017 Legal Tips

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent happy new year for sure, the new year twenty seventeen my voice just crack together come a fourteen year old it’s incessant with the voice i got to get lessons or surgery or something. Happy new year, that’s much more important, i hope twenty seventeen is going to be very successful for you. I hope you’re going to be doing some introspection and inspection and buy two guests today. You’re goingto talk about some topics for you to be the introspective about. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with ryan ola thigh assis if i got a whiff of you missing today’s show twenty seventeen legal tips are first introspection topic the new year means a close look in the corners we’ve got the legal issues you need to find tune aaron bradrick is senior counsel at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo and this year’s board retreat done right, your retreat will energize and focus your board and get them working as a team. Greg cohen nose out he’s a senior associate at cause effective tony steak too. Charity registration. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. I’m very pleased a real pleasure to welcome aaron bradrick when she calls in, we had her, but she’s gone, it wasn’t her. Okay, aaron bradrick is not here yet, but she ought to be calling in very shortly at ten a m pacific time, which is one o’clock eastern. So let’s see, well, some of the things that she and i are going to talk about, of course she’ll have the detail. Um, we’re going to start with this topic of charity registration, which i’m planning to fill in a little more on in tony’s take two, but you know, the general idea that you need to be properly registered in each state where you solicit our first introspection is the introspection show our first introspection topic for twenty seventeen. Yes, you need to be probably registered wherever you’re soliciting donations, you need to be registered with the state authorities, and we’re also going to talk about a board calendar. I’m not. Sure, i don’t know, maybe non-profits doing this routinely, i mean, i go to board meetings, but i don’t know whether they are planning the full year. Maybe they are. I’m not saying i’m not saying it’s not happening. Maybe greg cohen has all inside, and tonight we might talk about that later on, but it ought to be there ought to be a yearlong calendar of topics for your meetings, however often their car so that you got some strategy around it and some common sense. Um, let’s, see what we’re going to? Uh, yeah, all right, we’ll take a break and we’ll see if we can get i mean, i didn’t mind i don’t mind summarizing, frankly, but it’s bothering sam sam’s bothered sam doesn’t like it. I don’t know father was like, all right, it’s, my shot duvette piela i want, but i’ll take the advice. We’ll take a break, we’ll see if we can get aaron burr. Aaron bradrick on the phone. If not, well, you’re going to stay with us anyway. Nobody’s going anywhere, we’ll see what happens. It’ll be an adventure for everybody. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals, is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Hello, i’m j c. I’m joan, and welcome to twenty first century entrepreneur. We bring education in sight, knowledge, awareness, trouble, craziness and fun for you, the entrepreneur who’s looking to build your business and your community. Listen every friday from noon toe one eastern on top radio dot n y c, and you can tweet us at twenty first c e radio or talk alternative. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, and we did get aaron. It appears that i may have made a mistake. There’s an allegation that i made a mistake. I’m pulling a trump. This is me and i’m pulling a donald trump. This is alleged hacking. This is a land that there’s a mistake. I’m going to go back and check the record. I actually, you know, on dh i’ll apologize in advance, erin, because there’s a good chance. I did make a mistake. I’m usually pretty good, but maybe i did let’s see let’s give her air informal introduction she’s a senior counsel at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco where she is calling from she’s, a regular contributor to the very popular non-profit law block dot com and the practices devoted solely to non-profit and exempt organizations she’s at aaron bradrick and the firm is at neo-sage group dot com welcome, aaron the same story and sorry for that computer and i was planning to call in at ten. Thirty. So, uh, sorry about that, but i’m glad to be here. That’s okay, i may be the one who’s. Supposed to say sorry? I thought we ok, obviously i thought we said i i thought i said ten pacific, but i made you know, you there’s a good chance for because i’m booking a lot of guys glad. Glad we’re on now. Yes, and thank you for doing it. Spur of the moment. Okay, so i gave a little introduction into just a couple of the first two topics that you and i we’re going to talk about the filing requirements for charity registration and the board calendar, but i just gave glossy overviews so let’s talk about this charity registration filing thing. You think this is something good to look at in the beginning of the year? Yeah, i mean, i think the basic idea is that the new year it’s, good climb for organizations, kind of take a look in the mirror and see what they have coming up for the next year, make sure they’re organized, ready to go with a fresh start. And i think one of the things that we’re seeing lately is particularly at the state level regulatory agencies really cracking down due to the lack of compliance with registration and filing requirements. And it could be something that’s easy for an organisation to overlook. We recommend kind of the beginning of the year taking a look at what deadlines you have coming up for various filing requirements, which often turned on when your fiscal year and for the organization. I’m not just the annual returns that are filed with the irs and potentially with state tax authority, but also with potentially a charitable oversight and sees which is the attorney general and any ongoing filing requirements with the secretary of state or department of state and creating a calendar for you the year of when the silent or do and making sure you have a point person who’s designated to make sure the organization doesn’t miss the deadline. Yeah, that could be that could be a tough one for smaller organizations where the organization has a lot of filings to keep up with it’s it’s it can be difficult for someone to devote, like a quarter or a half of their time to these compliance issues. Yeah, absolutely. And particularly for all. Fall into your organizations where you don’t have a staff member, you can designate the responsibility of making sure these were met on the problem that we also see with a lot of these organizations is particularly when they’re all volunteer run when there’s a change in the officer structure there’s a change in the board, they don’t update these regulatory agencies with her new address, so even if they do miss a filing deadline, mostly agencies will send out reminders or have notices that the deadline has passed and that you have not seen an opportunity to make this filing before their adverse consequences from missing the deadline. But if you haven’t updated with a new address, sometimes organizations aren’t even receiving notices at all, not even aware that they’re missing with that fine, but we’re seeing greater consequences for missing these types of filing requirements, so it is really important for organizations to make sure they have some sort of system in place to make sure things don’t fall through the cracks. There’s something related to that that happened a few years ago? Now i know you’re talking about going beyond what’s required by irs, the form nine ninety whichever variation on organization may do based on their size, but but it was like three years ago or so ah, a couple of hundred thousand non-profits lost their tax exempt status for failure to file their version of the nine, ninety. Yeah, so the irs regulations we’re past that said that if an organization fails to file on exempt entity return for three consecutive years, then immediately upon the third missed filing, they’re exempt. Status will be automatically revoked. There’s no discretionary basis for preventing that automatic revocation. So if you missed three years of your nine nine year whatever for my ninety year required to file, then you can be automatically revote. There’s there’s some leeway, but for many organizations, if you are automatically revoked, you have to apply all over again to have your exam status reinstated. We’re actually up to almost seven hundred thousand organizations that have been automatically revoked over the last, i guess, six years, seven years now. Oh, okay, i didn’t know it was that large, and maybe that maybe that initial wave was now that the first wave of, like, three hundred thousand that wasn’t six or seven years ago, was it? No, i believe i believe they started them in two thousand ten, but i’d have to confirm falik automatic. Revocation put into effect, there was a big there was a big serge, a bubble, whatever in one year, but i think i was only, like three years ago or so roughly because because i know this show is six and a half years old, and it didn’t come at the beginning of that. I mean, those may have been happening, but then there was that huge one. Like i said, like close to three hundred thousand or so. All right, so okay, look in your look, look in the dusty corners, check your filing requirements, basically let’s say let’s, go to the let’s, go to the board calendar. You do you do you think most non-profits are setting their agenda for the year in advance? Are they doing that? I think probably not, but i think it could be a very effective tool. I think some larger organizations previewed organizations with large staff that helped to kind of coordinate the board meetings or, more likely, that be setting some sort of calendar for a full year. But i think he’d be helpful even for smaller organizations are entirely volunteer run organizations as well. I think it can just help. To set expectations for various meanings in advance to make sure the meetings are effective and efficient and that the board really covers everything it needs. Teo during the meetings throughout the year, yeah, it makes great sense. You you look at the whole year plan and make sure that everything is covered. So maybe you have some training on financials are you want to cover programs and you want make sure i would think you give equal time to all your programs or maybe wake them based on the preponderance that they proportion that they bear to your organization’s revenue or activities or something. But you won’t make sure everything is covered. It makes sense tow look at it for the whole year. Um, and you also suggest leaving some space for things that are going come up at hawk, of course, you know, it would be nice if we could predict in advance everything that was going to arrive throughout the course of the year, but i think that’s a very rare occurrence. So it’s important to make sure that in scheduling kind of topics for a board meeting, you’re not so rigid that there’s not opportunity for the board to discuss the really pressing issues that arise throughout the course of the year. You, uh you call this stargazing? I like that on time. Stargazing. I’ll have to give credit. I think jean takagi uses that term a lot. My colleague at any old locker. But we like the idea that, you know, a big part of the board function is really thinking big for the organization. So it’s not just necessarily thinking about the financials and the more procedural and legal aspects of government, but also thinking about, you know, what the organization can really accomplish, what its mission is, what is exempt purposes are and how it can best carry those out with the assets that has access to the kind of thinking big picture thinking about the potential of the organization. In fact, that could be a problem with a lot of boards is that they do get mired in the detail and they ignore the the larger role that they that they should be filling. Yeah, look at that time that’s looking critically at markets and competition and potentials, maybe scrutinising current activities to decide if we should be doing everything that we are doing etcetera, so these bigger picture items um and i think one of the hardest things for boards is actually to take a critical look at current programs and to make the tough decisions so, you know, if something isn’t working as well as it may be ought to be here isn’t necessarily the best use of the organization’s asset. Is there some kind of big changes that need to be made and those air filter big conversation? You know, there’s, not one that just happened in a short, you know, fifteen minutes section of ah one board meeting, so making sure that there’s room on the calendar for any of those types of conversations that should be taking place and perhaps will come up organically, you like to take a look att governance policies and there there are some that are in new marais tid in the form nine, ninety let’s get you why don’t you take those off? Go ahead. Yeah, the form nine ninety asks about a section has a section in the form nineteen doing be about policies, and it does actually say on the form nine, ninety itself that these policies aren’t required under the internal revenue code, but it is possible it somewhere required under applicability student law, so it is important for an organisation to be aware of any state laws that apply to it. But the policies that are mentioned on the form nine ninety are conflict of interest policy, a whistleblower policy and the document retention and destruction policy. The fact that they’re even included on this in a return form is just signal, i think, from the irs with either things that the irs was kind of thinking are important towards good governance of an organisation and are things that the organization doesn’t have in place, even though not legally required could be advisable and recommended from governance perspective. And then also from a marketing perspective, the ninety is so widely available that potential donors volunteers boardmember sze doing due diligence, whoever’s looking at your your nine ninety e i think it just doesn’t look so good to say no, we don’t have the conflict of interest policy, whistleblower policy, etcetera. Even though the irs, even though the form says they’re not required, i think it looks bad to check off those no boxes. Yeah, i could potentially and you’re right, you know, particularly, i think funders have access to nine, nine years and we’ll take a look at them and they are publicly available document the last three years, as you noted, so again, it it could be, you know, while not legally required, it could be a signal that you have good governance policies and good governance practices in place. You do, in fact, have these policies, of course, though having a policy in and of itself is of no use if you’re not actually making sure everyone is aware of the policy and following it and enforcing it so that’s another part of what we recommend, kind of the beginning of the year or some other time that the organization designate was appropriate based on its annual calendar, but taking a look at what policies you do have in place, whether they’re working for the organization or whether any changes should be made, whether everybody actually knows where to find the policies and his reviewed copies of them, and then also whether there are any gaps in your policy so there’s something that, you know, it would be helpful to have a policy on and you don’t yet and would it be appropriate to kind of put that on your task list in terms of coming up with an appropriate policy on that topic? Ok, one that’s coming to mind is it policy and the use of private personal devices for for organizational purposes? Do we allow it? What what do we require if we do allow it? You know, etcetera, what do you feel about that policy? We don’t see that as having been adopted by many organization, but i think it’s just becoming increasingly more relevant in the way that most organizations operate today, so it actually could be advisable, particularly for larger organization with larger staffs are a lot of volunteers that are potentially using technology resources that belonged to the organization. The use of of resources also comes up, particularly in the context of lobbying activities and political activities, which for five whillans trees you know, obviously, lobbying activities for public cherries have to be an insubstantial amount of their overall activity, but political activities are completely prohibited, and even you seven organizational resource for improper campaign intervention activity could be problematic, and i think a policy could be particularly effective in that area as well. Okay, lobbying ceo compensation is one that you like to see? Yeah, sometimes it doesn’t necessarily need to be in a formal policy, but it is something that the organization often need to be aware of the importance of and make sure it’s falling some sort of i’m specific process for determining appropriate ceo compensation, particularly here in california, we have a requirement that the combination of the ceo be approved by the board or unauthorized committee when it’s first offered, when the period of employment is renewed and then whenever it’s modified, even if it’s modified data word. So there are certain requirements in place with respect to ceo compensation and then also at the federal level under the internal revenue code there’s certain requirements with respect to how you determine whether compensation amounts are appropriate for having a policy in place could be good, particularly for an organization that has significant turnover. Andi it’s in its board, where there might not be a lot of awareness of what practices and policies should be followed with respect to determining compensation. Jean and i have talked about the competition hyre the presumption, etcetera, it’s, it’s in a previous share we’ve we’ve we’ve done something on that listen, sentiments and california because i said you’re in san francisco, but what are you hearing about the suspicion succession movement? Are we going? We’re gonna be down to forty nine six for you to start off the flag. It’s going to be a balance, therefore, i think probably not in my lifetime. I don’t think you do. People talk about a lot of talk about it. Do people talk about, like, over drinks and dinners and things? The result of the election have led to many conversations over drinks in my circle. I will. I will certainly say i’m not searching me. People are christian. Too hard for succession, but it’s definitely been floated. Okay? Yeah. All right, so it does come up. Okay. Okay, forty nine is, uh i was you were talking. I was thinking to forty nine as a prime. It would be hard to be weird to have a prime number, aziz Numbers, but not a prime 7 times seven is forty, so i was wrong there, but i mean, i hope it doesn’t happen. I there, there those who will we’ll send you off. Gladly, but i’m not among them. I hope we still, i’m glad to hear that way. In your mind. We’re keeping you in the union intact. Idealware okay. Let’s see so oh, and then, you know, we haven’t talked about any fund-raising policies, but you might have a gift acceptance and crediting policy and that’s something i work a lot with non-profits and i often find an existing one is not being followed. So in terms of either acceptance, i mean there’s a lot in there that non-profits forget is in there and then same thing with crediting they, i find it’s a policy that gets created and then often ignored. So, yeah, i can often be the problem with particularly these types of policies that are kind of thought of as the core required policies. People might even forget that they’re out there. So i think having some sort of process in place where the policy they’re easy to access and everybody that needs to be aware of them is well aware of what you know what they actually say. And i think the gift acceptance policy in particular, i think there’s often this conception that misconception, maybe that every gift is a good gift, but sometimes the strings that come with gifts for gift that aren’t actually easy to divest us can you be a little bit of a curse in disguise, i guess. And so it can be important to make sure that if there is a gift that isn’t no cash and there’s something that is more complicated or difficult to get rid of for the organisation or turned into value and that there’s some sort of process, we’re reviewing that gift and just making sure that acceptance really is in the best interest of the organization. Real estate comes to mind when you suggest that there may not be great. Real estate can be an enormously valuable and wonderful gift for non-profit on the other hand, i’ve had situations where it was a disputed strip of, like, four feet wide or so maybe ride, and it ran the depth of the properties. I was like two feet wide, one hundred feet deep, and somebody is trying to give it to us, you know, because it was denied and it was easier to give it to a third party and let us a trifle hassle with it. So there’s two ends of the spectrum, it can be magnificent, but around real estate in particular that’s, real estate’s, not the only kind of risky gift. But in particular you really you got to do your due diligence before your organization name goes on the deed for that property that let’s go to aa financials. You won’t take some time in the beginning of the year to do financial oversight. What do your thoughts here? Yeah, i think particularly for an organisation on a calendar year that has just wrapped up. You know, its last its last year. It could be a good time for the board and perhaps it a rather high level. But just take a look at what financials that has access to it. You know, the beginning of the year for the last year’s performance and then think about, you know, what needs to change in the future and then how it can arrive after those desired financial changes. So do any changes to the budget that’s been adopted for this coming here need to be made based on last year’s performance? Basically, just kind of taking stock. Obviously, reviewing the financials is, you know, an important part of board service and should be done more than just once a year. But i think reviewing it kind of that year and can be particularly important, i’m gonna have a guest next week. Diane leonard is going to talk about grant program, a grant calendar for the year, and one of the things that we’re going to talk about is timing your revenue with your budget when you expect when you’re expecting in her case, the grant revenue to come and make sure that’s appropriately timed so that you’re not, you don’t find yourself with cash shortfalls and a programming grayce program management, etcetera, timing those let’s see okay, oh, another thing with the financials to tony is that often you have boardmember zor even some gym staff members, they’re coming from just a range of backgrounds and have a variety of experiences, and sometimes not, you know, it’s not in everyone’s set of skills that they understand how to actually read financial statement something you could be really important as an organization to make sure that you have a process in place for providing some sort of basic level of training on reading financial statements, particularly for directors on denny cast members who don’t have that background, but who need to make sure that they understand the financial statements well, some people do it as part of an onboarding process with new employees or new directors and other organizations will set it up it’s kind of an annual or biannual sort of training that is available for anybody who hasn’t otherwise gone through it in the past elections. If you ah, if you’re going to be doing elections in the year, you want to make sure that you’re following your policy on elections, whatever your by-laws say, yeah, absolutely and, you know, we see sometimes organizations that have just always done their elections a certain way for years and years, and they’ve never taken the time to actually look back at what they’re by-laws actually say, and then one step further to make sure their current by-laws were actually in compliance with africa ble law right now, you’re by-laws were drafted twenty years ago it’s possible that the state law that governs elections and what has to actually be in yur by allies has changed, so can be appropriate to take a good look at what the legal election procedures are the requirements under the applicable law. Make sure your by-laws comply with that and then make sure you’re complying with your by-laws and it’s also kind of ties into the board meeting calendar we’re discussing a few minutes ago and making sure that if you do have elections that are required during this year that you have them scheduled in the calendar and notice that’s required in advance is also scheduled in the calendars that you’re not missing any deadlines, the risk there that he has some sort of disgruntled director or them voting membership organization and disgruntled member. If you don’t comply with the requirements of your by-laws or with law, then you could have potentially the decisions of the board or the or the members subject to challenge, and that just isn’t a good position to being from the organization we have just one minute left, aaron so let’s, let’s get teo, you want to review the articles and by-laws and are our purpose and mission statements? Yeah, and this is one of those things again that, you know, congested, good to counter for the beginning of the year. It was a good reminder. Take a look at what your articles say. The organization’s purpose is make sure whatever the bylaws say, it’s purposes is consistent with what’s in the articles and then take a look at what the organization is actually doing and make sure it’s still complies with the stated purposes. If the organization’s purposes have shifted somewhat over time, then it may be the right time to take a look your articles and by-laws and maybe make some appropriate revisions necessary. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there, aaron, thank you very much. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Don’t you have a great day? I pleasure. Aaron bradrick, senior counsel at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group, she’s at aaron bradrick, and the firm is at neo law group dot com, and her boss is jean takagi at g tack. So if you want to comment on aaron, all good comments, of course, then you could you contact gene. Thank you, erin, thank you for any happy new year. So long. Thank you again by this year’s border treat with greg cohen is coming up first. Pursuant, they can train you in a thoughtful plan to reach your twenty seventeen fund-raising goals. It’s a. What they have is basically a map to your best prospects. Strong relationships. It’s, a four week webinar, siri’s there’s one a week, and it’s called fund-raising like a boss. I’m going to skip the kick reference this week, not that i was asked to skip case germans, i mean, it’s, my show, i do whatever i want. I just i’m choosing not to make the cake reference this week, and this siri’s fund-raising like a boss, starts on january eighteenth, voice cracked again. If you can’t make the live webinars they have you covered, you give access to their archive of each of the four you’ll find the siri’s fundez like a boss at pursuant dot com quick resource is training and then webinar siri’s. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising it’s fun philanthropy. I like that philanthropy, it’s corny, but i’m not even sure i thought of it. It’s. All these things are only good when you think of them otherwise, thes puns are distasteful and hated, but if you think of it, you know it’s it’s genius, i’m not sure if i came up with this with a, i’m not sure that i saw it on their site, anyway. Philanthropy. It’s spelling bee plus comedy plus concert plus dance plus philanthropy that equals we be spelling. So that means spelling bee plus comedy plus concert plus dance equals we be spelling minus philanthropy if you move it over let’s change sign, but we’re well, we want to solve, for we’d be spelling, so keep over everything, everything else over on the left side, so don’t move it over so those things equal, we be spelling. Check out the video, the video there. Three minute video explains the whole thing highlights one of their fund-raising events. The video is at we b e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two, all right, i’m wagging my finger a little bit. Ah it’s an occasional admonition that i make around charity registration, which aaron and i touched on. I wanted to say a little bit more about your need to be properly registered in each state where your solicit donations it’s a morass, it’s awful. I wish it didn’t exist lots of people we should did exist, but it does it’s a morass because every state has its own forms and timetables and fees and definitions of what’s a solicitation, whether it talking, email or texting or u s mail, etcetera. So i’m just urging you to stay. On top of it, it is work that i do if i can help you, let me know, but it can be managed internally as well. However you do it, stay on top of it, please, because you don’t want to be the next headline. The trump foundation had a lot of problems with that. I did a video on that bunch of months ago, like, was that october november trump foundations very embarrassed that you don’t want to be the next headline. Stay on top of that and that is tony’s take two got to send live listener love the live love goes out tio, new york, new york, multiple new york, lovett, multiple new york, new york ah, union, new jersey red across the the river’s over there, the hudson river, staten island, new york. Right across the other way, actually, union and staten island. You could get to union through staten island. If you go across the verrazano and then staten island, then you go across the outerbridge, you get to union, so i don’t know if you all do. You all know each other just because you’re connected by bridges and i don’t know, stat now. Is with us, and so his union, the u k is with us. We don’t know which country and uk or it zing gland it is england, sam says, is england? We don’t know the city can’t see it korea’s with us on your haserot but we can’t see your city, but we know you’re with us. South korea always very generous. Thank you. We got hoochie minh city, vietnam and grow now germany! Good dog live listen love also to oakland, california, new bern, north carolina and, oh then go in south into obregon, mexico live listener love to you and the other live listeners podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand now. Yes, it’s the new year we’ve gone from ten, two thousand twelve thousand it’s happened. I’m ready to say it it’s it’s often enough that i’m calling it twelve thousand over twelve thousand podcast listeners each week pleasantries to you. I’m glad you’re with us and there’s affiliate affections to our am and fm station listeners throughout the country let your station no, please, that you’re listening whenever they fit us into your schedule throughout the week, i’m glad you’re with us affections to our affiliate listeners and i’m also glad that i can welcome back greg cohen he’s, a senior associate at cause effective, where he has trained and coached on fund-raising and governance for the boards and staffs of hundreds of non-profits since two thousand six, for over thirty five years, he’s been helping non-profits, including starting up and leading many he’s at greg cause the organization is at cause effective and that cause effective dot or ge. Greg cohen, welcome back to studio. I’m so happy to be here. Thank you. Cool topic. You brought it up to me late last year and i love it because we haven’t focused on this board retreats, border treats this can be valuable if you do it correctly and it could be a disaster if you screw it up that’s, right? So let’s talk about doing it right first they got don’t do things, but but just a little motivation. What can we get out of these if if we do them correctly what’s going to happen for our board? Well, this really fouls well from erin’s comments about shaping. You’re bored with intentionality. This is show has prepared, you know i’m gonna it’s it just happens and it’s beautifully coincidence, yes. So there it was on the menu. Okay, thank you. Start interrupting. So what you can gain if you think about your board is forming a high performing team? A zahren said for many of the things that she talked about, there isn’t time within the typical board meeting, particularly for areas that require reflection like let’s. Look at if our mission is still relevant to the activities of the community that we’re responding to. Maybe you’ve added knew board people and you have members who haven’t really gotten to know each other, like on any team you want people to bond, you want them to have a shared conception of their purpose, and you wanna have some ways of operating together might be the agreement on that schedule, that board calendar for the year of how we’re going to conduct our business, and what do we want to accomplish relative to the needs of the organization? So the retreat is about taking more time to reflect without the daily pressures on those key areas of governance and on how the board should perform itself as a team. Take out the bigger picture all these bigger picture items that aaron was referring to. Absolutely being more strategic and less, you know, in the in the in the forest stuck, and i’m stuck in the woods, right? It can range from how has our community changed other new populations and needs? It could be what changes in our revenue mixed dewey anticipating that’s going to be on the minds of everybody with a new administration in washington. And how do we get ahead of the possibilities and plan in advance and planning in particular as a governance function is best done at a remove from the monthly board meeting where you have a lot to accomplish in the agenda? How do you like to do these offsite weekend? How long? Give us a little flavour for right? Well, so it all depends, of course, on how much you want to accomplish and the availability of of your board. Ideally, i would say offsite someplace nice, relaxing that supports the conversation and people can into relate comfortably and there’s room for breaking out in smaller groups weekends, because that gives you blocks of time and i think it’s hard to do retreat in less than half a day. And many retreats actually go a whole day. Some organisations are extraordinary and devote a saturday in a sunday to a retreat. That’s a little unusual, but i think the more you remove it from the day to day constant context, the more you’re going to encourage people to interact and think differently. Okay? She liked to see a weekend day, right? You’ll also avoid people calling into their office checking email, you know, i mean, they you know, yeah. There’s. More of those distractions. You can control the circumstance of the meeting. That air offsite, it’s. Just a wifi ofthe exact it, of course. Those other access, but okay. All right. So what you want fairly distraction free, right? I mean, this is important. This is important time. Okay? Of course. That’s also going to depend on budget you have to spend for this. Maybe a board members home. Have you seen that? Can that work? Yeah. First for a relatively small group that can work very nicely. Okay. If there’s place tio sit around and actually deliberate, you need something like a conference table set up, but home can work very nicely. First board on the smaller side. Okay, okay. Um this, uh, could have some value around orientation for new board members. How we hardly fit that in? Yeah, absolutely, from okay, a number of perspectives, usually during a regular board meeting, there isn’t time to set context for the items under discussion. A retreat allows senior staff and bored leaders to explain a little history to put an issue into into context for new board members so that they get a better map of the environment in which the non-profit is working. Secondly, it’s really important that board members get to know each other on a social basis and interact, particularly if they’re deliberating on hard issues. It’s really good if you’ve had the chance to talk to someone more informally, you know, a little bit more about their background, what they do about their family, personal time, that makes for a stronger team, and you want to build team building activities into a retreat to make sure particularly there’s integration of those new members into what might have been, you know, a pretty cohesive group beforehand. It’s hard for the newest person to break into a club where everybody seems to have special knowledge way don’t have to do ah, walking over hot, broken glass. I love that you do? Yeah, i’m talking about what is it like? It was drew people to our board. What am i doing wrong? No, but i mean there’s, no question, a cohesive team. And you want to have interpersonal relationships that go beyond the business that’s conducted in the two hour board meetings every however often month, quarter, whatever you want to get to know each other exactly. And that’s one way not everybody is very forward and offering their opinions to establish some safety in the room for a really meaningful discussion of an issue. If i don’t really know how i’m going to be received by the person across the table haven’t built up trust, i’m probably going to be a little inhibited, particularly as a new boardmember from from knowing that i can speak my mind. Yeah, comfort with comfort level with that. Is there any favorite exercise? You have that the around team building and he, uh, like you play a little game? Yeah, all the classic ice breakers that involve won a lot of interaction between the board members and to some revealing at revealing some. Aspect of someone’s personal life that one wouldn’t ordinarily discover in the board introduction. I cross dress, you know, friends. Exactly. Exactly. That could be something. Could be a great accomplishment. I want philip boardmember to know exactly. Okay. Alright. Eso bringing drawing people out of right there. Business. And what do you do for a living and having them seeing in their full personality? Not just there. Jacket and tie image at the table. Okay. Okay. Um, let’s. See what else? What else? What else could we could we do around these do in this? Well, so retreats offer an important opportunity to develop leadership among the board, and we think planning is really important. So i know when i was an executive erect the first time i did a retreat, i waited too long. And then i realized g i need someone to run this. And the week before, i called someone who was a facilitator and said, can you run my board retread on saturday? And he said, well, what do you want accomplish? And i said, well, that’s, what i’m hiring you for and i really i recognize how unfair that was now that i look back. Because with a good border treat, you think you you wantto builds a common idea of what you want to accomplish during the day. So we like to form a planning committee of board members and staff and then a sine preparation roles so that many of the board members, if not all, get a chance to lead a part of the discussion and ah, shared leadership. Yeah, exactly. And that models the kind of back and forth and deliberation that you want to teach your board meetings. So this is a chance in a plan fashion to say each of us can have a role in guiding the discussion among our peers. So, like you rotating facilitators, friends, well, it might be on topic. So you have each chair, the chair of finances going toe provide an overview of how we did last year in finance and what the challenges are coming up in this year and that might be heavily supported by a staff person. But the key thing is it’s a boardmember who’s articulating it and the message below the the direct messages each of us can master this you like to see a facilitator? I was ah, instead of the board chair running the retreat, you don’t want to see that. I’d like to see every member of the team be able to participate in a full way without having to do that facilitator role of kind of looking down in saying how’s, this whole group interaction going that’s very demanding. Okay, we want full participation of the executive director and the board chair in discussions and save them from the facilitation role. Okay, facilitator is an outsider. It could be i mean, sometimes for the staff person broke, you know? Could be yes, it could be a fourteen year old like me. Okay. Ah, of course we a cause effective love it when people hyre outside facilitators. But if you had it a skilled staff person but that person could play that role too. I usually for the team building. If i’m working with an organization that uses that in their program, i have a staff person coming and running exercise like the ones they run with their clients. For instance. I see. Okay, we’re going out for a break. Greg and i are going to keep talking about this year’s board retreat on. Ghost. Gonna ask him to talk a little about what cause effective. Does stay with us? Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. And i am the doting uncle brillo head sometimes called tony, at least over the dinner table. Um all right, i want teo, have you explain what cause effective does greg as consultants and non-profit itself? Because it’s an outstanding organization, i refer people to you when they ask questions that they and they need help that that i can’t give, i refer them to cause effect of what you people doing over there? Great. So first of all, we have been around for thirty five years, as you say, we’re a non-profit but were organized like a consulting firm and that we have specific engagements with clients, and we work together to find a way to fund that our focus is primarily on helping groups learn how to be more effective fundraisers in the area of relationship based fund-raising so not so much grantspace ship from government or large foundations or large corporations, but more that one to one kind of fund-raising typically when on organization wants to start raising money from individual donors, and that hasn’t been their emphasis, because maybe they got most of their funding from government of foundations. Now they want to diversify, they didn’t recruit aboard for that purpose and the board is saying, whoa, that wasn’t in our contract that’s when we step in and starting from where each organization is paint the dance steps on the floor that lead them to becoming effective in reaching out and building a sense of community among perspective and other donors that’s the most common type of referral that i’ve sent to you is someone is basically asking, how do we get to the next level? We’re all event driven, and we want to have individual donors, how do we do it? I send them to cause effective great. The other area that relates particularly board retreats is that we think boards are the vanguard of that individual relationship based fund-raising and the best motor motivation for a boardmember to go out and fundraisers to be is to understand the needs of the community and the mission and be driven to raise money. So the group has the resource is to fulfill that mission in the fullest way. So to do that requires really connecting every boardmember to the conception of the potential for the organization to realize its mission if it found the resource is cool. Thank you. Talk to them that you you do. You only work in the greater new york city area were primarily focused on new york city region because our work involves a lot of coaching and being in place. We like to say we embed ourselves with a client. So were present at board meetings that staff meeting staff trainings and there’s. A lot of trust building. So the work has tended to be done best when we are local within the tri state area. Okay, i don’t know what to say for the rest of the country. There are there are we do go out and speak and share our methodology at national conferences. Okay. Everything from the junior league. Teo bi annual conference for social change. You also have an excellent newsletter that i get that julie levine, the executive director, puts out. So, you know, you can sign up for the newsletter. This is all you’ll find. Because if that door okay, exactly. All right, let’s, circle back to the border, treat staff roll what’s the staff role in supporting this. You mentioned they might. They might be facilitating or maybe not facility, but leading cem. Session more supporting the board members to do that to lead those sessions. So i think staff always in relation to board is providing the legwork and context to board members to carry out their governance work so it might be collecting data and might be helping the board members identify what are the most important issues to be discussing in a retreat. Now, particularly exactly the partnership between the executive director and the chair is is always key. But you know, the development director might work with the head of the fundraising committee to say, what is it that’s going to be most helpful to emphasize? To get the board members particularly jazz for fund-raising in the coming year or get him ready for the gala are whatever are the key challenges in each area of governance for the year in the appropriate staff person who provides support to the board members in those areas, i will say, generally speaking, most board retreats on ly include senior staff there. Ah, sometimes there’s a portion where there’s joint board staff as portion of a retreat but really, i believe boards need their own time, so and their own focus. Oh! I’m not in favor of bringing in a lot of staff to a country of their own retreats. Or they might come in for a session exactly on dh, support that somehow and then depart. Yeah, that shouldn’t be here, right to have staff come in and talk about successes in their programs, to give boardmember sze in a nice taste of mission and to get to know a key staff person better even bringing a client for that purpose. But they come, they do their piece, and then they leave. Okay, okay. If we do this on a weekend saturday or sunday, do you like to see a dinner afterwards? Should we be asking people hang around for dinner or are people more likely to just leave when the business is concluded and not stay for the dinner? I i’d like to pull the board because if you have a board that has young children, for instance, they’re the boardmember probably less eager to skip dinner with the family on a weekend. If you have a board that’s older, they may be willing to devote more time and it’s lovely to have to finish with wood dinner together that i said, check in and see what the majority of the board feels. Okay, okay? You have some ideas about things that we want toe stay away from things teo avoid in our in our retreat buy-in you don’t want people doing a lot of reporting when that stuff that they could be doing in a regular meeting, right? So that’s a tendency to say, alright, this, as i say, we want to bring people up to speed and be on the same page, so we’re going to say the same thing to all of them in the room, but what happens is that they sit as passive recipients of that information, so better as you say, provide a report and then figure out how to structure a discussion that that brings in the latest information that you want people to absorb but make them do a little reading and then use that information in deliberation during the the retreat, i will say there’s an exception, there’s a portion of it of a retreat where providing information is appropriate, which is if you’re training for a new skill. So aaron mentioned more you mentioned providing the ability to read financial statements or something for us it’s typically fund-raising techniques like doing a practice, ask for money or practicing an elevator speech where there’s a piece of training involved and we’re really conveying information that’s appropriate for retreat, but for bringing people up to date on the daily activities of the organization. Save that for report and use the time when you’re reporting for the bigger stargazing issues. Okay, you also want to be judicious about what you include so that you’re not packing too much into the day and nothing gets adequate time. Exactly so ah, common issue is we didn’t do strategic planning this year. We need to get the strategic planning process done when we have everybody together, because we’re not gonna have together again in a room for five hours for the rest of the year, so let’s do fund-raising governance, strategic planning and, oh, by the way, we’ve got a bunch of other governance things that we didn’t do, i’m going to put it all, and then people feel overwhelmed and they don’t take away the key lessons well and everything. He’s done sloppy then examine those air such big issues, any one of them could could be a five hour planning planning session. Exactly. Okay, so so you got a pair it down to just a couple. So everything gets the attention that that’s, right? And i think some key years, their touch on touch on mission, touch on fund-raising touch on how the board is functioning in its overall governance, and then you can pick some issues that are specific to the group to focus on, even have a guest speaker who relates to ah, the area of mission for part of it. And the thing is to keep it lively, have it very participatory. I like to say a successful treat is one where people are disappointed that the day has come to an end and they say, why don’t we do this more often? Cool. Let’s. Wrap it up. We just have, like, thirty seconds left. You like to see good food? Absolutely. And wine to have wine, not overload the end. Yeah, absolutely wanted to paint at the end to celebrate the success is no that’s cool. Yeah, yeah, but if you’re bringing piela people giving their time on the weekend, you want to reward them with a with a pleasurable experience. No booze at lunch. Great going, senior associate itcause effective. You’ll find him at greg cause and again, the organization is cause effective and also at cause effective dot org’s. Thanks very much, greg. My pleasure. Good to have you back next week. Digital inclusion furthers your impact and your annual grants plan it’s with diane leonard. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. A creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Thank you for that, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and the green. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s, not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 28, 2016: Get The Most From Your Board

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with calla boma lo bill, i if i heard that you missed today’s show, get the most from your board. Professor eugene fram returns to discuss his latest book going for impact the non-profit director’s essential guide book we’ve got the critical things your board needs to know and pitfalls to avoid. What’s your boards most important job how do you use your board members? Time, wisely and a lot more on tony’s, take two non-profit radio on youtube, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com my pleasure to welcome back dr eugene fram he’s, professor emeritus at saunders college of business at the rochester institute of technology. He’s served on twelve non-profit boards and consulted with dozens of others. Jeez, first gene’s first book policy versus paper clips brought him to non-profit radio in twenty thirteen he blog’s at non-profit management, d r fram dot com and there’s hyphens in between those so non hyphen profit hyphen management hyphen d r hyphen fram, dot com and he’s at eugene fram that’s what she’s your twitter jean welcome back. Well, nice to talk to you again. Pleasure to have you back with your with your new book going for impact. What what did you feel? It was necessary with this book versus the policy versus ah paperclips book. Well, i’ve had a lot of experience between then and now, and i wanted to talk about that experience, especially in the movement towards impact, as you well aware, that funders air looking for impact. Ah, or governmental organizations, they’re looking for impact and a lot of non-profits really don’t i understand that, especially non-profit board members, they think if you meet objectives and on develop outcomes, that impact but it’s really not, as you well know, right impact reporting. I’ve heard rumors to that effect. That’s. Okay, that it’s critical, uh, the the, uh, the classic case on that is the newark schools that you’re probably familiar with. So it’s not too far from you in new york city. Uh, is that, uh ah. Sucker burghdoff gave one hundred million dollars. Forty and five years later they had reached their their objectives. But there was no impact on students. Okay, so that’s, the classic lesson that there is a difference between out comes and impacts. Yes. Okay, you’re echoing what a ah, another two time guest has been on well saying it sounds like he’s two timing the show not thirty two times a show, but another guest has been on twice. Dr robert penna makes the distinction between outcomes and impact. Yeah, and more people are. But if you look at the total of non-profits that i meet, some of them will argue that this is only a fad. I had that argue with a a fellow colleague, boardmember uh, just about a year, six months ago on that she was claiming this is just another fad. Let’s forget about it. But actually, this has been, um, around for eight or nine years. At that time, the really thoughtful people in in the non-profit area were saying to me, forget about outcomes. It’s impacts that air that are very important. And where it’s coming really into the four right now i remember in nineteen ninety four or nineteen ninety five. I had a friend who who said that the internet was just a fad hey wouldn’t get an email address felt that that was unnecessary wouldn’t get a website for his company. I don’t know. I don’t know if he’s coming to the i know if he’s coming to the modern age, we don’t talk anymore. I know. Yes, i cut him off. They’re not kill those people around. And unfortunately there on non-profit board. Yeah, ok. Well, yes, i think it’s if it’s any kind of a fad. It’s a critical fad, but i don’t believe that it is. Yes, lots of funders, including individual donors, won’t want to see impact, impact investing. We’re talking about donors as investors. Well, they want to see the impact of their investment. Okay, all right, i i hope listeners, i mean, i need to pay attention to that indeed. Borden metoo okay, so you didn’t feel well. That was really not the emphasis of policy versus paper clips. That was mohr making sure. I mean, i’m summarizing an entire book and we listened to go back and check is you were on to talk about it in twenty. I believe it was november twenty thirteen, but i know it was twenty thirteen. You could research, uh, jeanne franz name at tony martignetti dot com and you’ll find it. So i’m summarizing. So forgive me for trying encapsulate a whole book into a sentence. But it was basically you don’t want your board micromanaging and dealing with details that are not appropriate for them. But rather they should be dealing. It hyre more strategic levels. Yes. That’s. Exactly it. Thank you. You remember? Well, cool for dr. Okay. Professor? Yes. Professor from dahna in rochester institute. Technology. That’s. Pretty good. And it’s. Pretty good that i went to that schlocky carnegie mellon university. So that’s. Another it’s in the same category. I don’t know. I think in a and rochester maybe, maybe, maybe. Ah, well, i guess. Why would you say that? Tonight’s debate that one, okay? Know what would be a seat so that we could be going the other way? Okay. All right. So now what i like about your ah, you’re going for impact. You have you have takeaways at the end of every chapter. I appreciate a little more than a conclusion. It’s a. You know, i like to take aways like not tonight, not that i only read two takeaways. I don’t not that people should buy the book and only metoo takeaways. You’re going to miss you a ton, but i like, you know, it’s a nice touch. I appreciate that, and also short chapters, you know, you’re in, you’re out like two, three pages. I mean summer longer chapters, certainly, but the most are, like two, three pages or so four pages, you know, in a topic and onto the next, because this is for board members, they’re volunteers. They don’t have time for treatises, that’s, right, exactly. All right, it’s. Only one hundred four pages total reading, but it also has a, uh, on index at the back with one hundred fifty different items on it. And if you really need a specific topic, all you need to do is to go to the index and you’ll find out where it’s mentioned throughout the book. Okay, okay. Um, a little more than one o four, though you cut yourself off. You got these? Yeah. You kept making your cut yourself short, it’s actually, like one hundred eleven and ah, one quarter i would say thank you. I’m glad. Because last seven. Glad your fact checking. Yeah, we’re all about and what some people did last night on the phone. All right? Yes. Last night was the last debate we’re pre recording. Yeah, i know. You know, those last seven and a quarter page is air important don’t don’t all right, um okay. So we’re going to talk about some of the things that were, you know, we only can hit highlights because i want you to listen to shit by the book for going to say, uh, we’re going to talk about you got six essentials that board members need to know we’re going to talk about that, of course, uh, we got some pitfalls to avoid way got the most important job that you’re bored has on, then using your board members time wisely and and utilizing an advisory board. So those that’s what we’re going to cover, i’ll tell you what, let’s, go out a little early for our break. Now, i’ve just tease the whole show, and when we come back, you and i have the whole hour together remaining talk about that and i know you’ve got some stories to tell. So jeanne, i know you’ll stay with us every else doing that i’ll be here, i know everyone else do the same. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Okay, dr fram. Let’s. Uh, hi. Yes. Okay. Let’s, get, uh, let’s. Get into this. We got we got six essentials. And, er, the first one is be aware of rose colored glasses what’s your what’s, your concern there? Well, there are a number of different concerns there. One i find that quite often, uh, that, uh, non-profit boards will tolerate a mind this size store type of ceo, uh, because they’re comfortable with the media. Ocracy in other words, they want to be good, but not great. And you hear that expressed every once in a while that says, well, when something goes wrong, well, you really can’t expect that of a non-profits yeah, this is not the same as for-profit mediocrity mediocrity, andi. And if you take a look at it from the point of view of some board members and remember, i only speak as a boardmember i’ve never been a needy, never been in the management of a and non-profit giving you the board members point of view. So when you do that here, you’re really, uh, moving towards the bottom, all right instead. Of the top. And so you gotta expect excellence from your ceo and the management staff as much as they can do within the finances that they have or to develop creative ideas. Uh, that will take the organization to the to the future. Okay, now, but you’re also speaking as a as a professor of business former retired professor of business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you bring in that room that respect you see and like in policy versus paper clips, i only seat major differences between the non-profit on the prophet and that is the non-profit has, uh, mission, vision and values as as their objective. The for-profit obviously has to have is the profit motive s o that is the major differences i see and and everything else to me is very much the same. Okay, excellent. All right, so so you’re you’re your your experience as a a business professor. Converts, i mean, and and i’ve also had, uh, for-profit board experiences too. Okay? Yes. Not quite as many, though you aren’t twelve non-profit points in only four or five of them, for they range from ah, national corporation listed corporations. Tio start up. Okay. You credentials are unquestioned. Don’t worry. Okay, you’re you’re on non-profit radio your bona fide. Okay, good. I want to make sure my non-profit bonified are clear. Yeah. No, no, you’re, you’re good. Okay, um, let’s talk about the next one. You have, um, being wary of the silent boardroom, or when i call it, i that’s what you call it? I’m calling it that god. Yeah. I’m concerned about deference to directors. Yeah. That’s mine. I’m adding that what? What? What’s the problem here. Too much deafness, what’s what’s the problem? Well, this all started a couple years ago when i was doing some consulting work and a young boardmember said to me, hey, you said, you know, i wished we had mohr uh what he said, conflict of discussion, he didn’t need to say me, i mean, to say in the extreme but he said more discussion in in the board room of the issues because what he was seeing in that particular situation is that the, uh, the executive committee er would make a recommendation from people’s would ask, um, passive questions. And then they would pass the emotion on de so he didn’t see any, uh, any riel discussion going on there or real probing of the issues? S so you know, when he said that i developed this idea of the silent board board room and this is very typical, and i ask your listeners if you’re a non-profit director when’s the last time you saw a person say, i’m going to give a no vote to that ah proposition, because i don’t want to be liable either personally or professionally for what the majority has saved in here on dh make sure you put my no vote in the in the in the minutes, okay? I had to do it about a year or so ago, and i stopped the whole the whole process with that statement, but typically, if the president wanted a ceo wants it, or the board chair wants that people exceed to that very, very easily, yeah, alright, too much difference given right? Not not robust, the conversation not really duitz not real due diligence and, of course, your point about liability that directors are potentially liable for them, the deeds and misdeeds of the failing to upper failing to act and misdeeds of the of the organization there, there, fiduciaries they have a legal. They have legal duties. Uh, yeah. Now ah, this all comes, then becomes part of a culture. You know, the typical even business person will say, well, i really don’t want to go against the board chair or i don’t want to go. I don’t want to go against the ceo on this on duh on and it just becomes a part of, for instance, the university trusty came to me once. And he said, we were asked to comment on a particular program which happened to be in the business area. And you can, uh he knew that i had some expertise in that area. And he said, i when i listen to the, uh, to the people there, uh, they were all saying, yeah, let’s go with it, he says, but deep down in my heart, i felt that this was actually reducing the quality of the program. And he said, but early in the hand, i didn’t want to be negative, so i went along with it. So she’s kind of doing a confessional to may, right? But that’s, what you will often find in these situations why should i cause conflict? Why? Should i be the outstanding a negative person in the area. So forth in the situation i said in the committee meeting, i says, if you pursue this and my ass and i gave my reasons for it, i’m going teo a vote no on it. Okay? And then i never heard another thing about it after that, right? But you you have to make the vote that that you’re you believe is right that your conscience guides you two. You have my conscience there, right? Right? Right. Because i felt instead of putting the money and for what they were planning to do with it was a legitimate type of thing. I’ve felt that it had been a it should have gone into programs. Now you can overdo that, okay? And really cut out the over set, uh, down the overhead. But on the other hand, sometimes that overhead is needed, the payment is needed. I want to move to the next one. But before i do, i just want to point out you mentioned deference to the board chair. The ceo, um another. Another together. Pardon me, nto and each other. And i wanted to mention also something you point out the book is about difference, teo major donors who may be on your board that’s always right, that that could be a real problem. That’s a tricky one putting putting big donors on your board. You know, nobody wants to upset the apple cart risk-alternatives bing risk the payment by the pledge payments that have been promised, etcetera, um, you have to you have to tread carefully. Alright. Yeah, very, very carefully, andi. And you might have to compromise your values in some instances, but there’s only so far. You you should go because you still have the mission that needs to be achieved on this let’s. Move her in kapin a typical question teo typical type of donation is people will may offer you property, but the property has value, but they may pace restrictions on it, and you can’t necessarily sell it and you might be able to use it. But who’s going to pay for it in the long run out that property so far that’s a typical situation really real estate khun b could be a tricky issue, a lot of due diligence required around that, whether whether to even have that, whether to accept it in the in the first place on we’ve got i’ve got a video about that on the youtube channel, which i’m going to talk about tony steak too. I’ve got i’ve got a video on yeah, about the due diligence required for real estate gifts. Okay, jean, we need to move on because i want to i want to make sure we get everything in this hour. Next of the six essentials you described, what makes a non-profit board great? Go ahead to find to find great for us. Well, i’ve handed it something. One is the quality of the board dialogue and discussion on duh that’s. Uh, and it should be at the policy level or this or the strategic level at all time would say should be ninety percent at that level, and but you’ll find that boards get quite comfortable with discussing operations because they’re more interesting. Well, that’s the policies in policy that’s the policy versus paper across our street strategy, i have yet to find the person who goes on ah goes home and says to a significant other or her significant other oh my god, we had a just of tremendous evening. And she lt’s a he or she will say, what did you do? Oh, my god. We just discussed policy and strategy and fascinating. Yeah. Find that person, will you let me know? All right. What else? What else? Hallmarks of greek board. Tough questions. The ability. Teo, drill down. And teo, talk about things that might be had happened with the decision. Okay, andi, what air the unintended consequences of the decision. Ok, so these all need to be laid out and that’s where the tough questions there. Okay. And what else? Uh, well, you need a board diversity and experience. Unfortunately, many non-profit board members are made up of for friends, family and neighbors. Okay? And you rarely see intra prin nouriel uh, board members, people who haven’t an enterpreneurs, rials streak in them or willing to take some some modest risks. When it comes to risks, the typical board will back off because they don’t want to be risked in a situation in which they might be liable. So so those are the three top things, as i see out out of that area. Okay, hallmarks of a great board on. Okay, let’s. Move. Teo, our fourth are our fourth essential straight straight talk about the board members responsibilities. Go ahead. Okay. One is she obviously have used fiduciary responsibility. Uh, overviewing the board, but at the same time not micromanaging it on dh. Also understanding the difference that we talked about between outcomes and impacts is one thing. Shall i go on? You have another one? Yeah. Yeah. Fund-raising yes. Boards have a responsibility for fund-raising, but you have to have, uh but, uh, except if you might delegate it to a foundation to fundraise for you and that is that is a perfectly legitimate approach, but boards totally have a responsibility for fundrasing, but there. But as a group, they’re really not effective. Okay? It usually takes about three or four people who are comfortable with fund-raising on are willing to drive it. Okay? No. And, uh, you know, that’s kind of the facts of life of jean. Do you like to see these? These expectations about director responsibilities in a written document for new board members off course. And, for instance, i saw one for a, uh, for a human service organisation in which their expectations for the board we’re all listed and pretty much followed. What? I had a policy for what i have in policy versus paper clips, but they they left off the fund-raising, but they had a separate foundation set up to handle fundrasing. No. Okay, so that’s, that that’s acceptable. That’s, that’s. Perfect that’s find acceptable. Okay, so they’re difficult when you get into foundations. You have to, you know, and and can lead to a lot of problems where the foundation says what we raised the money. We want to determine how it’s spent. Oh, that, you know, the way it works, right? Okay. But you even if you know, even if there is a foundation the the organization’s board members may have ah, ah, personal fund-raising, you know, give or get requirement to the foundation. Yeah, but i just want to point the example i gave you a hundred. A zing was not listed in the area of board’s responsibility. Okay, right. But they left it all to the foundations. They see. It is the board responsibility. But there might also be a personal requirement to give. Yeah, there might be a personal environment for the board. Teo getter give type of thing way that we can talk about later. I have here. Okay. Now, there’s there needs to be a good amount of trust between the board and the staff. Yes. And the board in the ceo? Yeah. Yeah, well and okay. That’s hinting at something we’re gonna get to write. But now another thing. I’ve kind of abstracted what i think they’re the important ones. You have a legal responsibility that quite often boards don’t even know about, uh uh for non-profits they have to live better different from a four for-profit board in a legal way. Otherwise their quarter, their corporations the same as a for for-profit businesses. And one is, of course, in the non-profit area you have the annual iris form nine ninety and the board has a legal responsibility. Teo to review that and make sure it’s correct before it is submitted to the irs. Uh, they will even have a system for getting e-giving extensions. If you can’t meet the data on on this. The other one that few people know about are the intermediates is the, uh i r s is intermediate sanctions act, and they know about it in the sense that if you pay above average wages to the ceo uh, you can be really responsible and fine for you, but what they don’t know there are a whole host of other things related. Teo uh, the intermediate sanctions act. For instance, if you sell a piece of property below market value, the board and the management can have and i additional taxes paid on their personal texts that bills for for the for doing for voting, for improving it and doing it something something below market fto sort of an insider is insider trading basically, uh, it’s equivalent to the insider trading? Oh, it doesn’t even have to be insider. For instance, if if you sell a ah a ah, a piece of property below value to a let’s. Say a person who serves on a committee on the board. Ah, serves as a volunteer to the organization you can. You can, uh you can define you took this. Have at a tax bill added to your bill. They’re contributing writer. I have an article thoroughly explaining that if any of the people were interested in it, if you send it to my ah requested on my at eugene fram and send me an address. Where i can? Well, i can send it through regular e mail. I’d be happy to send it to them. Okay. Okay. Cool. That’s your that’s. Your twitter id. All right. Okay, i need you. I need you to sit tight for a minute while i take a little business for our sponsors and delighted who’s. Hang on, just hang on right there because we got more with professor fram coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got another free resource for you this’s. Their donor line report card. It will help you evaluate the health of your donor pipeline spot. Possible weaknesses and identify areas of your greatest opportunity. It is an infographic, and it’s under resource is at pursuant dot com. Check out their infographic. The donor pipeline report card. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising they’re not like any other spelling bee that you’ve seen or been to there’s live music and dancing and stand up comedy fund-raising, of course and spelling you could check out their video. These are ideal events for millennials. Great fund. We be e spelling dot com now, tony steak too. Have you checked out? Non-profit radio on youtube? There’s there are over two hundred videos on the real tony martignetti channel. Lots of interviews over a dozen playlists. Some of them are event fund-raising dahna relations playlist, social media, standup comedy, bi weekly videos and there’s. A bunch of others. Yeah. Find what you need. Look for it on the youtube channel. Subscribe my channel israel r e l tony martignetti you could just go to youtube and search twenty martignetti on the only tony martignetti doing anything substantial on youtube. I regret, though, that you have to put in marketmesuite eye, and then you still get like martin martinez. You know, marketmesuite and then i pop up, so but i’m the only tony martignetti pops up, but you got to get that g in there. That’s tony’s, take two. Thanks for checking me out on youtube. Okay, gene, that was okay. Appreciate your indulgence. Thank you know, uh uh, the other a couple more issues. Okay, only one more because i see we’ve covered the trust point here. Go ahead. One more on board members really have to understand who who the board represents. And the borg does not represent the staff quite often. They think they have to look out for the welfare of the staff. Obviously they have to look out for the welfare of the staff that they want to be productive. But their obligations are made to the various stakeholders. It could be the community. It could be the trade association. It khun b to the, uh to the mission of the organization. Obviously, esso and and the people related to the mission is ah, is the one that’s most most common for enough for non-profit not to the staff. Okay, okay, i understand that. And that’s ah, you know, we don’t weigh can’t have staff doing and runs around their vice president or their ceo and going to the board members that’s, that’s all no, no, i want to move on way. Tio, your last two are what the board should expect from management and what management should expect from the board. So i don’t know if we can maybe deal with ease the same time. But wait, let’s, take the first. You know, doing the order. You got it in the book. What? The board should what the board should expect from management and you start with, you know, no surprises, no spin on bad news must rise. So just say a little about no surprises, no spin. Well, let me, uh, let me no surprises there. Spin. Let me start that with a war story. I was on a board of a non-profit which was a very active non-profit and serving its clients well and serving, uh, it’s mission well, however, the executive committee decided that they wanted to acquire a for-profit in another city, and they had enough finances to be able to do that, and so they went ahead and do that did it? And then they came to the board and ask them teo, to approve the acquisition after they had already signed the contract and every everything else and the reason they did it, they felt there was a banker on the, uh, on the executive committee who knew all about these things, and it turned out the banker did not know our about it. For instance, the banker didn’t tell them you don’t give the buyer full payment, and until you can see that they can fit into the nonprofit organization when you you stretch the payments out so forth. So what happened is that i went for ah state on the on the board for oh, maybe another month or two. And i resigned and used the usual excuse of work pressures because i just didn’t want to abolish the whole whole thing up, actually, you. Could have. You could have had a a legal situation there if you really wanted to pursue it on. And it worked out that way. It was just a terrible act was acquisition, but let me ask you wait. Owner, the former owner wanted to run the er the division, the way she wanted to run it instead of the way the acquiring non-profit wanted to run it. That seems so i don’t know what happened beyond it. But there was evidently a lot of conflict there. What? Why? I have to ask you a question. Well, hold on. Hold on. Altum. Why? Why did you not tell them directly? What the reason for your resignation was ok. I took the easy way out. Ok? Why wine? Because, uh uh, you got me all right. I took these because i felt that they were doing well enough, and i didn’t want to muddy the water. Okay? Okay. Okay. And that’s typical of of, uh, of a poor who looks out for the welfare of what they’re doing. They were doing a good job in the base organization. But the expenditure for the, uh, for the acquisition just turned out terrible. Ok, i appreciate you’re appreciate your being honest now under on it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay, now wonder what the board should expect from management. We don’t have time to cover all the points that air that are part of that. So it just one more? I just couple. Okay, now i just want to cover one more in this, and then we’re gonna move on to what? What management should expect from the board. But talk about bad news must rise. Well, well, often, uh, people board members will keep bad news from the ceo or the staff will keep bad news from the ceo and s o uh, cia management has toe actually seek bad nose on this. For instance, one of the things that i recommend the people right now eyes make sure you have a whistle blower hotline for years. You owe your staff or even perhaps board members who don’t want toe get involved with, uh, causing conflict within the organization, but feel something needs to be checked out there. Ok? Eso eso you you have to. If you’re a wise ceo or board chair or boardmember you look for these things on dh you have to have the venues opened for them. All right, let’s, move to what management should expect from the board of the last of the last of our six essential wait, hold on. We don’t have again. You know, we don’t have time to cover everything listeners. You gotta buy the book. Of course. You know, we can just summarize, i wantto suggestion. I want e i want to focus on i wanna focus on something we just touched on. Briefly trust, trust and confidence. The mutual, the the that the management should expect the trust and confidence of the board. Yes, you have to have that because quite often, uh, the attitude is, well, they’re not-for-profits people. They’re not for-profit people aside talked about before. And you have to have to trust and confidence that the ceo is a competent manager. And there are ways of doing that. One of them when we get to advisory committees, uh, can talk a little more about that, too. But there has to be the trust that the ceo and his direct reports and others are competent managers, depending on the size of the agency, because the traditional point of view is that they’re not competent. If they were competent, they could be working for for-profit organised, i think that i hate that nonsense. I do two on, i’ve seen very competent people, wonderful people, you know, my traditional comment about the people in the nonprofit world, especially these there that they figured really stand ten feet tall rule that’s, the way i always look at it, no matter if their their case worker or if they’re a ceo when they do their job well, they tend to stand ten feet tall and there are a lot of people in that category, of course, no that’s, not it love that. All right, all right. We’re going to go. Teo. Teo, the pitfalls you’ve got, you got many chapters on potential pitfalls. We’re going to talk about the the the bad poor practices for border for boards. So why don’t you want to just start us off? Go ahead. Okay. One is dumbing down board with croup. Mint uh, where you take, uh, what who’s available and, er on that khun b anybody? For example, i recently encountered a situation, and i saw it myself with that board chair. In the nominations committee recommended a particular person who may accepted simply on the basis that his wife recommended he be aboard nhis no do deal is it’s so far, by the way, he lasted about two years burghdoff had a lot of problems, is and that is just, in my estimation, is just terrible. Okay, i understand. Wait, hold on, hold on. Because again, you got so much in this chapter. There isn’t time to cover. What do you remember? Everything you see and hear? Oh, yeah. Get they get stuff. Yeah, yeah, come on. You okay? You know, haley paid a fancy prices this. You know, this is a prepared show. Come on here. So, that’s our failing to this. I hear this a lot. So that’s why i’m flagging it, failing to delegate sufficient managerial responsibility to the ceo because this gets sticky. This gets to your policy versus paper clips so don’t can’t recite ceo and see him as her as a competent manager. Yes. Alright on that. That goes to what you were just saying about presuming competence and excellence not you know you’d be somewhere else if you if you want, let me give you a story on that one? When i was head of a, uh, board chair of a non-profit in rochester, we also had on the board of ah, the human human resource director of eastman kodak at that time. And so i wanted to make sure that we and i felt we had a competent person and but i was receiving static from other board members such as, well, his response. They had one hundred. The the organization had one hundred employees and hay on the comment. Wass well, hey, has the responsibility of the system pastor at my church. You know, uh, so but fortunately, i had the hr director from eastman kodak, and he says no. He said this man’s responsibility is equivalent to what a good, uh, middle level manager at kodak would have. Okay? And he should be paid accordingly. Ok. So as a result, i was able to get the salary that i wanted for for the ceo. But it took that in order to that power to get it right. All right, all right. And there’s there’s a lot more in there. There’s. Not more in that chapter pitfalls. But i want to get teo, don’t make sure we cover everything. I want to get to the most important job for a bored. What is it? What is it? The most important job for the for the board, uh, is ah eyes, i think ceo selection and overviewing okay. Hiring hiring the right ceo, hiring the right ceo and overviewing the person making sure that he looks at you as a partner. That’s. Why? I like overviewing the ceo and the board is a partnership. A relationship? It is not a boss. Subordinate relations look any good ceo no knows that. Uh, hey, here. She can be fired by the board. But if you give a develop a culture where the two are working together as partners and that both people will make mistakes from time to time. Okay, but that partnership is very, very important. Okay, okay. We’re going to go out for break, gene. And when we come back, you’re not going to talk about the last two. Will have just about six minutes or so to do that. Ondo? No, little bloomerang that like a little more than nine minutes or so to cover our last two. How to use the board members. Time, wisely and when and how to utilize an advisory board. Stay with us. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time for live listener love we’ve got to send out the love because love is always in the studio through the internet and interweaves of the of the nets and the woman’s and the weaves the love goes out phone lines i don’t know, you know it goes out so if you’re listening live love to you, i’m very, very grateful that you’re with us if you’re in japan, which is a very good chance you are because there’s always japan japanese checking in konnichi wa for our chinese listeners and also taiwan, always checking in ni hao and south korea also very loyal listeners on your haserot comes our ham nida, if you’re listening in the us, the love goes out just thank you. What more can i say? Glad you’re with us following quickly on the heels of live listen love it’s got to be the pod class pleasantries did i just say pod classed? I think i just iconoclast the podcast pleasantries. They always go out to our over ten thousand. I think we may be pushing twelve thousand. I gotta look at the stats. God, don’t let me look at this every week or even every month but ah, down with the the download bandwith has been expanding, so it may be more than two, but podcast pleasantries if you listening via podcast doesn’t matter how many thousands there are pleasantries to you and the affiliate affections for our many am and fm station listeners seated strategically throughout the country in carefully selected markets, our am and fm station listeners affections to you, our affiliate listeners. All right, jean, we’re going to get teo. I’m well, thank you for checking in boardmember time should not be squandered. Is that correct? That is, that is absolutely correct. Because they need thio understand you appreciating what you are doing and making sure that, uh, that they’re spending their time wisely. Okay. That’s not always the case. Uh, for example, boards tend to want to a culture eight new board members to the culture of the board. For example, if you have a financial analyst it’s likely that they might ask the person to help the bookkeeper instead of saying, why don’t you help us develop a long term financial plan for the organization? The culture is that the finances, finances, bookkeeping, not financial analysis that will take you. To the future. Okay, that gets into the micro management a bit too, if you’re having a boardmember look over the shoulder, have a staff member. Oh, all right, you have some very simple tips, but i think, you know, worth repeating because because i’ve been to board meetings that this is not done so the stuff needs to be reminded board meetings should begin and end on time. That’s right on dh er people respect that, and they they respect what what that means to them and things of that nature go ahead as we’re not just talking about these old tapes, i don’t i don’t think you specifically mentioned agendas, but nor do i like to see in agendas is is a time limit for each discussion item on the agenda, and you take a step further. You don’t just keep it there in parentheses next to the item on the agenda you appoint a timekeeper, a timekeeper. He’s not was not running definitively, not agendas should be sent out well ahead of time with the briefing materials. Most ofthe that i’ve seen is, uh, the agenda in the briefing material come to you day before or sometimes. Two days before so if you’re busy, really don’t have a chance to really study and and know what’s happening. As as a plant e-giving consultant, i am occasionally invited to board meetings to present on status, you know our plans and dance and, you know, you can tell first of all, some board members come in and they’re studiously going through the folder that was sent to them of the binder that was sent to them. You can tell that this is the first time they’re looking at it. That’s right? That’s, right. That’s done a robbery. That’s not how you make robust. Good decision. Yeah, yeah. They’re flipping through pages in the ten minutes before the meeting opens. That’s, that’s. Awful, but oh, yeah, but you see that all the time, you know? Well, it’s, uh, you’ll even see that sometime in for-profit boards to go on. But that gets kind of dangerous there because you might vote on something that will yield some fancy liability for you. Fancy liability. All right. So you like to see things? Not only before the meeting like a week in advance, but also minutes, minutes done within a week of the meeting ending? Yeah. That’s right. That’s right, because contemporaries me contemporary iss meeting’s minutes are very, very important to cover you and to make sure that they are all correct is very important. For instance, if i wouldn’t wantto i don’t want to emphasize this. If i were to vote no on something, i want to see it there at that time. So i’m on record that i didn’t think that this is a good idea. Okay, so you don’t really like waiting until the package for the next board meeting to get those units to get the minutes from the last meeting? Yeah, wait, what we have with the internet and with email and whatever, uh, there’s no reason for it except for the ceo will say, well, i just don’t have the personnel to do that. Well, uh, you auto find ways of getting that done. Okay? Uh, in each ah, and for getting it done. Yeah, so that, you know, the ceo always say, well, we don’t have the money for it, but when you press hard enough, if it’s really important, the ceo will find it. All right, we need to move to our last topic. How and when to use an advisory board. Now we just have about two minutes or so to cover this. So please bear that in mind. You have you have shortened long term purposes for an advisory board. Pardon? You recommend that advisory board to be either short term or long term? Yes. Okay. All right. Uh, it’s, your term you need people for a specific project, maybe building a on extension on the bill aboard. So you need construction people or people like that who can help you on that? That short term? Ah, long term. You want people who get to know you on and get to know the mission of the organization over over a time period. And that should be a person who is not it’s, not advisory to the board, but should be advisory to the ceo because the ceo has the responsibility for taking action. And if it’s advisory to the c e o of course, he’s going to read rejects some of the ideas except some of the ideas. And you want teo have somebody who can take action and initiate some of them. Now he has. The ceo has an obligation to report what the advisory board is saying, but i think the ceo needs to be left alone with the advisory board so he or she can let their hair down in terms of what they’re thinking about long term and what their current problems the are today, we’re going to leave it there. Gene the okay, the book is going for impact the non-profit directors essential guide book. You’ll find it on amazon. You can tell it’s packed with information we could just scratch the surface. Dr jean fran, i want to thank you very, very much. Well, thank you very much for the invitation. And i look forward to listening to it. My pleasure. And again, you’ll find jean at eugene fram fr am and his block is non-profit management d r fram, dot com and there’s a hyphen in between each of those items. All right. Okay, fine. Go. Thank you. And thank you for the questions. My pleasure, jean. Thanks for being with me. Okay. Bye. Next week. Amy sample ward returns. She’s been on maternity leave. She’s coming back alive. You bet that i guarantee you she’s coming back if you missed any part of today’s. Show. Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant those online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com. Our creative producers climb meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Stuck. My voice is cracked again. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. 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