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Nonprofit Radio for August 11, 2017: Master Google AdWords & Master Your Decision Making

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Jason Shim & Mark Hallman: Master Google AdWords

With Jason Shim & Mark Hallman at 16NTC

Google has $10,000 of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign. Also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as AdWords evolves. At the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference I talked to Jason Shim at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman of Evergreen Digital Marketing. (Originally aired August 12, 2016)

 

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson: Master Your Decision Making

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson at 16NTC

You make hundreds of decisions a day: some simple and some complex. What’s the science and art behind making good ones? You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson are from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. This is also from 16NTC and the August 12, 2016 show. It’s 16NTC Canada Day!

 

 

 


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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with trapani mitosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show master google adwords google has ten thousand dollars of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as adwords evolves the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference i talked to jason shim at pathways to education canada and mark coleman of evergreen digital marketing. This originally aired august twelfth twenty sixteen and master your decision making you make hundreds of decisions a day, some simple, some complex what’s the science and art behind making good ones. You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karen headed niimi and jamie nelson are from the inside education society of alberta. Karen is director of business in human resources, and jamie is an educator. This is also from sixteen ntc it’s ntcdinosaur day on non-profit radio canada master day. Lots of mastering going on on tony steak, too solitude, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here’s master google adwords welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen auntie si the non-profit technology conference. We’re also part of ntcdinosaur say, shins, we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on day three of the conference. My guests now are jason shim and mark holman will meet them very shortly first have to shout out today this this interview’s not just one a day, but one interview swag item which is a brand dahna and it’s from ah on good from on good many ways to wear it and also ah ah yo, yo alighted yo yo which we don’t have enough not brought enough frame i can’t demonstrate my yo go pray yo, yo prowess i used to be able to walk the dog doo around the world, you know, rocket out horizontal butt now it was not to take my word for it that i can still do it, so this joins our swag pile. All right, jason shevawn jason is associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education in canada. Thank you. Very welcome back, jason. Thank you. Believe it was two years ago. It ntcdinosaur good memory and more. Coleman is president of evergreen digital marketing. Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. All right, gents, we’re talking about how to be a google adwords superhero waken rock this now let’s talk first about the ten thousand dollars per month program for non-profits who who knows this program best. Is it free? How do we where we find it? What is this? Who knows the best? Go ahead. Yeah. Basically it’s ten thousand dollars of in-kind advertising given by google every month. It’s rule over grantspace oh, there’s there’s no limit to it as long as you keep me in the grant requirements and basically it’s in-kind so the little adds it show up on the top the google search results and that’s what you get so it’s a great program be part of. Okay, where can we find info for people who’ve never heard of this before? Google’s website is, i believe it’s google dot com slash non-profits or for canada’s, google dot cn non-profits okay, and you get ten thousand dollars a month? Yeah, a month free. Edwards yeah, free. Albert is not a cash it’s non-cash granted in-kind advertising, but every month limited to three hundred twenty nine dollars per day. But every month on going, as long as you meet the program requirements, there is no expiration date. Okay, did you find it very hard to qualify if you’re i mean, if you’re in the u s and your five o one c three or if you’re in canada and you have the wherever the equivalent designation is, um, you’re a bona fide non-profit is that about all it takes are very much if you meet the requirements for being a registered charity, then you’re pretty much good to go. Okay, well, that’s outstanding, alright, i’m not sure how widely known that is, but it is now because everybody listens to the show. If they’re not, then they do. They ignored at their peril because then i don’t know. All right? Well, let’s, talk about some campaigning. Where should we start with our google now? We’ve got three hundred eighty nine dollars, a day forever where should we start our campaign? So i think that one of the first things to start off with is really identifying, you know what your organization’s your mission is, and then how you can align some of those add words to to align with, you know, with that that mission. So for example, for pathways to education canada, you know, our mandate is to help high school students that they’re living in low income communities to graduate from high school. So anyone searching for any topics that are related to, you know, dropout prevention or helping the high school students day in school or people that are living in communities that we serve, you know, whenever they’re searching for nothing’s, really to education and drop you? No, we make sure that we sort of an ad, so, you know, they confined our resources more easily and that we can get access to nothing’s like tutoring and mentoring and, you know, access to scholarships and things like that, so it really helps connect people with the resource is out in the community. Yeah, how do we think broadly about what keywords people might be searching for him and you know, i’m sure every organization could name half a dozen off the top of their head, but how do we go beyond that? Maybe listening on twitter? I don’t know. You tell me, how did it go beyond what it comes to it comes to mind immediately. I think it’s, you can start with a sort of ah thought experiment and just trying to get into that the heads of other people and really, you know, using your, you know, just general empathy. So when when you, for example, mark and i, we used to live in a way, we’re sort of used to work together in kitchen waterloo at a place called cries in family counseling services. And what we did was we were trying tio create ad campaigns to target people who are looking for things that couples counseling. Nothing is the market for key. Which couples counseling. You know, the bid rate is quite high, you know, for it. And then when you think about it, you know, by the times a couple realizes they need couples counseling. You know, you may have to pay more than what you have for those kind of words. You rewind it. You know, a month, six months prior. You know what? What kind of things might that couple be going through? And, you know, trying we want it that way. So the kind of things maybe bidding for it’s, like, you know, i’m having challenges, you know, communication with i suppose, you know, how do you resolve money issues? Fundamental difference of opinion about children. You know, things like that that, you know, you krauz you at the end of the path, you know, but for people who would require couples counseling you how to get to them a little bit earlier to connect them with the organization. So really, it’s just a lot of service sitting there and thinking, oh, i love that idea of thinking ahead because you actually beat the competition that is paying the higher price for couples. You know, for that phrase couples counseling, absolutely relationship counselling you can get. You can beat the competition if you’re thinking a couple of months earlier. What are they talking about? Like money? Children finance center? Yeah. Cool. On another example, i can provide and american and speak to this. Ah, as well. Let’s, when we part of the service that were offered was credit counseling, and the thing is, like payday loan places like they’re they’re willing to bid up to, like fifteen dollars per click and the google lad words krauz is limited to two dollars per click maximum. Okay, so you really have to be extremely creative when you’re thinking about, you know, for some of those services where you also, you know, essentially competing against for-profit right on do you know, how can you think about, you know, okay, so for people that are running into credit issues down the road, you know, what might have looked like six months prior? And, you know, maybe, you know, people are searching for, you know, troubles making their bills or looking for, you know, initial, you know, information about me, you know, loan consolidation or things like that, you know, before they get into that critical, you know, the moment where you know, they’re they’re living on sort of back to back loans and yeah, so it’s just a lot of thinking and but one of the greatest tips that i think we received when we first discovered head where it’s at it’s from the ultimate guide to adwords by perry marshall you know, way highly recommend that book through the ultimate guide to edwards yeah, it’s called okay. And if one of them was read cosmo magazine and, you know, i think cosmo magazine provides a lot of lessons around, you know that the way that it cost one magazine covers designed, you know, it’s it’s designed to entice, you know, people that are going through a shopping check out to pick up a copy immediately, and i mean, it’s been the best selling women’s back-up dean since nineteen seventy to know so you know, they really done that in the print industry on the transits quite well into design in-kind adwords campaigns as well, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it, tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna oppcoll is pathways to education canada using google edwards ten thousand dollar month program? Yeah, yeah, ok, and mark, you have other clients that are as well, successfully, yeah, a number a number and you’re going with jason’s saying as well to part of the big part of adwords is trying to think of you know how how our people need our programs and services are looking for us if you’re doing banner ads or magazine ads to to kind of show what your your services are in google search is very specific, you can’t think of what our people looking for it so how to use the wise all the questions for help versus the opportunity of having made a scene at where you can put a big, you know, big, full page description of what your services are. This is really an opportunity for people who are actively searching for your programs and services and bring them right back to website. So it’s a really important program tohave from non-profits okay, after we’ve set on decided on a set of add words, phrases that we can afford to bid on how do we? I’m thinking next stage is monitoring. Our our results day today is that if i skipped anything well, there’s there’s a process there’s the whole setup piece, which is your campaigns, i groups keywords creating your ads. But one side nuts and bolts piece of it is done gather it is the moderate peace and add words and google analytics are fantastic for that they show you clicked the rates that should you conversion rates if you have that set up impressions and something, and really manage actively and make wise decisions on a short term basis. And that’s what actually drew me, tio adwords and that grants program originally was the fact that i came from a auto background. We have the auto trader, which is it’s, a paper magazine, and anatoli, you’re hoping to see people come in and say, i came here because i read your magazine without words, jason first showing the dashboard the first day i’m like, okay, we can actually see that accent or people clicked this ad in this time frame. It went back to our website and took actions, so get the monitoring in the analytics part of is a really big piece it’s important? Okay, yeah, jason won’t you talk about this more? Yeah, what’s really great is that you can really make data driven kind of decisions, which is, you know, one of the hallmarks of working in digital, an example i would give us, you know, we we had run a campaign to get supporters to donate their air miles to our organization, and we worked off the assumption that, you know, people want to give their, you know, their airline miles, you know, the goodness of their hearts because, you know, you know, but what? We quickly realized that, you know, the think the ad copy was something along the lines of, like, hey, you know, i don’t need your airline miles to ah, charity focused on youth and, you know, the click to rates on that were abysmal, like they weren’t fantastic people kapin verdict, so we, you know, we sat down and went back and thought about it, and the ad copy that did perform better was, hey, i don’t have enough miles teo to go on a trip, you know, donate them to our charity instead, which reflected the kind of reality that some people face when you realize that you need like, maybe ten or fifteen thousand miles you wanna trip in just a thousand? Yeah. Dahna and they just want to, you know, do something good with it and, you know, because they can’t go anyway and that one converted three times better and it’s amazing to people to get, get the metrics around and really support some of those hypotheses around. You know how our people thinking, how are they behaving? And you can really test those out. And conversely, you know, sometimes you know the hypotheses that you come up, you know, fall completely flat as well. But it’s, you can always go back to the data rather than relying on some of these, you know, anecdotal, you know, kind of gut feelings. You can still have toast, got feelings, but you consistently validating them over and over again with the data, which makes us think, edwards, you know, one of most compelling platform’s teo, really experiment and run campaigns. Mark, you mentioned something. I want to die aggress to an add grants. You said adwords and add grants what’s with the ad grantspace program. Yeah, granted, we’re actually talking here for non-profits adwords is a platform. That google has five times in that sort of business is you and you pay for ads today, but i grantspace the non-profit program that’s just ten thousand dollars a month. Okay, exactly. Right. Keeping keeping a straight. All right. Okay. Well, all right. So now we can monitor results like day to day, right? I mean, we and at the end of a week, we can see one phrase, one word is performing quite well. Another is not so weii stop bidding on the on the underperformers that basically what what we do? Yeah, basically straight a be testing and if one odds working other ones not if it’s we’re talking incremental increases. Here is what we’re talking about. One point five click through rate versus the one point seven or two point three it’s not always an eighty twenty of this huge disparity. Okay, but over time, you can make these incremental increases and really improve your presence, and we’ll set up typically set up two ads per at group abila play them out like jason mention. We make assumptions about what’s going to work, and we’ll quickly learned that it does or it doesn’t, and they get to go on, we’ll pause the want ad, create new adam, obviously reset the process and move forward. So kind of a fun game that i have with my summer intern. So we get a summer intern every summer, and what i do is i challenge them to a competition, so every week will come up with an ad and you’ll see what the results are. And then we face off every week, so the lower performing at gets paused. And then we were both trying to create a better one every week. So, you know, by the end of the summer, you sort of have this, like, hunger games, you know, style of creation. You know, only the strongest survives the best click through and the best results and conversions. Okay, all right. Pathways, education canada benefits. All right, they’re the winners. All right, do-it-yourself time together. What? Let’s? See what else? You, uh, campaign what else can we say about a campaign but the ongoing but i think waken speak a bit to the google grantspace oh, program. So if you max oh, it’s, your ten thousand dollar grant does there’s a few of our requirements in there. You max out your the ten thousand dollar grant for two months out of the prior six months, a cz well as maintaining certain kind of quality metrics around new york like two rates and also setting up conversions non-profits are eligible to apply for the grants parole account, which is forty thousand dollars a month, which is nearly half a million dollars a year in in-kind ad revenue and, you know, that’s that’s a great way for, you know, larger non-profits or international facing non-profits to get additional kind of exposure grantspace pro it’s called that’s pro. Okay, ru is pathways, education and a grand pro now, yet we’re run away, but i know that a mark is pricked with several clients against pro against yeah, we we have a few that working with the grants provoc counts again. It’s the more than international reach or the national across the states reach the reality is a lot of our smaller non-profit to have a regional focus, a search based so there’s a limitation, sometimes near population, searching for programs and the relevancy in just the raw reach doesn’t there sometimes, but for the bigger the big organizations absolutely it’s. A fantastic way to actively manager account and and really reach out. Okay, okay. You are. You also spent some time talking about keeping your skills fresh. As as adwords evolves. What is that about? What happens? I think that the platform is constantly changing. And s o back in toronto, i teach a digital marketing classes in the evenings. And one of the things that i am costly, thomas students, is that in one working in adwords and analytics, that the platform can change at any time on do you have to adapt to it? That’s part of you know, being, you know, working in digital so an example would be, you know, if when, when google changes our algorithm for search, you know, you have to respond to that, and you read up on, you know what the new algorithm changes? Maybe an adjuster campaigns accordingly. Another one is sometimes the platform itself changes. So you log into the interface and, you know, the buttons of switch debate or there’s. A new feature or a new tab. It’s? Very disconcerting. Yeah. Especially people. We’re not, you know, native digital. You know, you just used to something for years. And then without an announcement, it’s different yeah, so you have to keep on constantly beating and adapting and everything, but part of it is that, you know, even though, you know, for people who have been doing it for a while, you know, and maybe a little bit disconcerting to, you know, have everything shift, i think it’s also an opportunity for people who are completely new to the platform, i mean, it hits the reset button for everyone, right? So if you’re if you’re brand new getting into edwards, i mean, it’s a great opportunity jumpin you’re at the same level of everyone else. So, you know, it’s it’s also, i think, a positive thing and, you know, for people, you do not feel intimidated about jumping into it cause i know that when you first log into the dashboard like it’s, a lot of buttons and everything, but, you know, it’s, you know, both of us, you know, we start doing adwords about seven years ago when we were working at a smaller non-profit and, you know, it’s been a constant kind of learning and evolution, and we’ve seen so much change on the platform, but you know, the more time you spend in it, you know, it’s, the analogy we used in in our in our session was, you know, we’re not the kind of, like superheroes i got bitten by a radioactive spider and wasn’t out with all these superpowers to do add words, we would be more like, you know, the batman or the ironman in-kind things where, you know, just a regular person who, you know, that man went away for, like, five years, you know, into the mountains to, you know, train and honed his skills and everything. So, you know, similarly, i think it’s a lot of reading, so i really start off with a you know, just that the ultimate guide to edward’s weii read that book cover to cover many several times. Okay, is there a i presume there is? Ah, blogged that block for edwards. So google keeps yeah, google keeps obl argast adwords dot black spot dot com and that’s not asleep. Grants focus but that’s where all the new updates come out. Oftentimes the update will come out a few days before they get around the block post. So part of the fun as your law again and you think things were happy? Like, oh, shoot where’s my reports button, but they are constantly changing things and they are constantly improving. That’s part of the fun of google’s, they’re always innovating and, you know, a few weeks ago they went from having ads on the top, the top the searches also and decide to just the top. So jason’s thing it’s an opportunity to have you say that’s what i noticed that s o for advertisers know we were used to having, you know, three or four spots across the top, plus five or six more down the side, and i were down too two or three or four at the top. It has become really competitive, so if you’re willing to spend the time and research and learn the program, you’re competitive, you could be up there. So it’s, not it’s, not it’s, not something you’re like. Jason said begin with immediately and be up there, but you can learn it quickly and to spend the time. That’s what? We both started a lot of reading a lot of time out the side of our deaths and a lot of time at night, you know? Just just learning the craft. So yeah, it is definitely a worthwhile investment in time because i think that for all the organizations i’ve been involved with after implementing the edwards grant, like, you see a good spike in traffic, you know, in your google analytics, because people are finding the organization and all the the services you offer much easier and better. And, you know, mark has a similar kind of experience with the organization that he works with, like just getting general traffic over to your site for better awareness and, you know, connecting with existing supporters who are looking to make a donation like no one, no one google’s like, you know, i have too much money, you know, how you know who can i give it to you? I don’t, yeah, yeah, me strategic, yeah, all right. Now you had a superhero theme your your session? I see now i am not a dc comics guy or, like, superheroes, guys. So were you challenging? You’re challenging audience members, too. I identify with a superhero name themselves a superhero now? Yeah, not actually named themselves. But the whole approach was that you could be a superhero as well, and you can learn the craft. You can hone your skills, you could be a superhero. And you really do have responsible of the digital marketing record in your organization. Tto learn this and you know it’s there. It’s free it’s free money from google’s free ahjumma, google if you dont having not using it is a bit of a disturbance. So step up. Be a superhero and you know, okay, take it up. What? What is excelsior in you’re in the god zoology is thin. The session description says excelsior that’s how you ended it, excelsior all right, so that was that was just like a superhero. Kind of like exclamation that comment is the marvel comics. Yeah, okay, sure. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Part of superhero theme is also, you know, the spider man quotation. You know, with great power comes great responsibility and that’s good if you have an opportunity to connect with someone and you miss that opportunity, you know, that could be someone who was searching for, you know, help with their rent to what their anxiety or depression or help, you know, with some of their personal challenges. You can’t you can’t be serious. You’re absolutely right. We have a couple more minutes left. What have we not talked about or what you want to see? More detail may be something we covered too quickly. You spent ninety minutes in a session, so i know you got more. I got more knowledge than nineteen and a half minutes. I think that one of the questions that we ask this, you know, how much time does this take, you know, to do adwords. And to be honest, i wish i could say that, you know, it’s, you know, you can always make you know the case and be like, okay, i’m going to spend this amount of hours and you know, you’re your organization is going to support you all the way to do it. But, you know, the reality is, you know, sometimes you get you know, you’re really busy and non-profits and no this’s another thing to do on top of the you know, the ten or twenty, you know, items on your list for the for the week. And i guess what i want when i want a share is that when we both started out doing add words like we really were doing it off the side of right ask you not to try and prove that viability that you know, to bring in new traffic for our site. So you two, i guess whatever advising people are looking into adwords is you don’t know that this way. Do you know if if you to have a passion for it and are willing to do, you know, a bit in your spare time to even, like, get the initial ball rolling like it’s worth it? You know, even just to prove the viability to the organization because i know could be hired to try, negotiate for that time and resources and initially to get started, okay, but you’re encouraging. Yeah, for sure and the other part, guys don’t expect you have to spend two, three, four hours per week and build all your campaigns the first it can be a slow burn, it’s non going grant you khun step a a few basic campaigns to start with you learn the accounts, learn how things work and build from there that’s often often times your clients of just become super overwhelmed because they want to have this full blown fifteen campaign hundred. Ads that i’m going to spend my ten thousand dollars but it’s a race today you don’t need to yeah, that’s actually very good point we always talk it’s not about spending ten thousand dollars of spending the money properly, and you might spend five dollars, a month or a thousand dollars a month. But if you’re reaching your target and the people need to find your finding, you dori with ten thousand dollars, worry about doing it properly and making sure you spend the money properly and i think one of the great things about antennas that there’s ah, a community of people that are using adwords a spell. So, you know, one of the things i was really important for our session is like it’s, not only to show people how to use adwords, the google adwords grant better, but also, you know, reminding people like, you know, don’t forget to reach out to those around you because we’re all facing similar challenges, and we’re all along, you know, a spectrum of you know, your movies to experts and, you know, whenever something changes in all the experts become newbies again and so making sure that, you know people recognize you, there’s always help, you know, just around the corner just, you know, don’t be afraid to ask for help when especially in the community for is there a, uh, maybe xero community of practice around add words, you know, in in ten? Not yet, but we should wait. Yeah, i mean, you know, they’re very liberal about ah, a couple people interested, and now they’ll support it. Ok, there isn’t yet, but yeah, the entire community is very giving. So even without a formal structure around around edwards, there’s still help. They’re absolutely just posted one of the one of the one of the community boards and examine you and ask, ask for help, ok? And the one thing i would mention is that american speak to some of the more advanced you. So just so you know, i think there’s there’s certain things that you khun dio with the free adwords grant, but it also helps pave the way for a charity to explore usage of paid advertising as well and that’s, you know, the edwards grant is a great way to sort of explore those initial kind of foundational steps before moving to the paid advertising model what you have demonstrated, no clear return on investment for you’re on schnoll can about what you can persuade the leadership that there’s value, then maybe they’ll start to invest some of the organization money. Is that where we’re headed? Yeah, exactly. A string itself is an expert, as you understand there’s gaps we might know jason talked about competing with the pity alone’s places are competing with payed counselors and professionals add words is a really competitive market, but if you can show yourself is an expert and say, you know what, here’s what we’ve done but there’s a few gaps over here would like to other, you know that on some paid, you know hyre big key words or potential duitz, um, banner advertising, the google display network, or even potentially do some advertising on youtube that’s all within the adwords platform on a number of my clients and people i work with have their google grants account and also separate google adwords account is paid and google’s fine with that they there’s no wish without as long as you’re not competing on the same let’s, same keywords in your paid account and you’re free account. Dahna wish you okay. Okay. So you can you can do both side by side. Exactly. All right. Um okay. We wrap it up there. You think we’ve anything else? Well, before we do any other good, you have to raise something that made me think any other good questions that came from from the audience in your session. You want toe one highlight. Eleven were around some of the kind of technical details and that there are quite a few kind of, you know, technical, administrative details, you know, related to, you know, properly administering your adwords accounts. The one question that did come up during our session was, you know, what if you’re inheriting account that, you know, it is quite old and, you know, it may not have been well administered in the past, you know, how should you even start to, you know, fix it up, and our suggestion for that was to, you know, to break it down into buckets and just start changing it one campaign at a time to try and use proper structures and applying very method a logical approach to it, rather than sort of the scattershot approach that may have been used, but if you’re inheriting a campaign that has been a total mess, theun, you know, chances are it’s not performing very well, you may as well just wait, you know, most paul’s most of the campaigns and restart everything on the other question that came as well was just, you know, are on general support. And one thing that i like some of the google reps here at ntc mentioned is that there is a support line as well. So, you know, it’s it’s amazing, because there was a lot of companies that don’t offer, like, direct phone support. We’re talking about telephone support. Yeah, from google. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was actually a number that you can call, you know, if you’re adwords grantee that, you know, if if you need help, you know, navigating, you know, the main panel or creating ads or whatever, you know that there is, you know, entire support team that you can pick up the phone and call and they will help navigate through some of those challenges. Excellent. Yeah. So that that number is available. Okay, that is rare. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s, leave it there. Thank you. Very much thanks, alright. Jason shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada, and mark coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing. Thank you again, gents. Thanks, tony, thanks, thank you very much for being with us. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much, master. Your decision making coming up first. Pursuant is your last chance to check out the archive of the state of fund-raising midyear checkpoint that’s, their webinar with ceo trent ryker and senior vice president jennifer balat. Midyear fund-raising reports they came out last month. What’s most important to follow. What if you’re not hitting the benchmarks? How do you keep up your good pace if you are doing well in comparison with the rest of the community? Pursuant is data driven. They’re gonna help you succeed in these all important third and fourth quarters by making sense of the data that you are inundated with its at pursuing dot com quick resource is then webinars. Let them help you make sense of data. We be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers it’s a night of live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling and raising money for your work. It’s a night devoted to your charity not a bunch of charities it’s for you that’s the purpose raise money for your good mission to help you make the world better. Watch the video at we b e spelling dot com and then talk to ceo alex career ninety nine to two four bees now time for tony stick too solitude i’m hitting this again this week. It’s essential if you want to do your best work helping other people, you’re in e-giving profession if you want to give, you got to take take time for yourself. It’s essential time away from phone, email, text, social media and work just me show your boss my video. I’ll get an extra view your boss will agree with you, they’ll see it. My way. And you get the time off. It’s called solitude, full cast and crew. Your boss is going to be impressed. You got to trust me. Just show this thing to your boss it’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two here’s karen headed niimi and jamie nelson with master your decision making welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, of course that’s, the non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on my guests are karen already said, karen headed niimi and jamie nelson and their session topic is the science and art of decision making. Karen is director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta and she’s sitting closest to me. And jamie nelson is an educator at the inside education society as well. Ladies, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Indulge me, please. While i just highlight our swag item for this interview, which is from think shout it’s a t shirt from think shout and according to our outstanding piela hanna this is a minimalist star wars theme. She can point out that there’s ah, minimalist death star and a minimalist. What else is there? Millennium falcon. See it. See the minimalist millennium falcon, that’s, an mmf, minimalist millennium falcon. For those of you who are not on the video, i’m sorry. Go to real tony martignetti dot com r e a l, and you can watch the video there. It’ll be there shortly, so we’re adding this to our second day swag pile. All right, that’s. Where it goes, the science and art of decision making. Karen what? What are our challenges around decisionmaking? Well, i’ll tell you a little bit of the back story of this session, okay. Came to the non-profit technology conference last year for the first, and i am not a techie, but i want to learn more about trends and issues. And after it was over, i was very overwhelmed. And i thought it would be really need if there was a session on another life. Important topic to kind of give my brain a break. So weii well, had to choose this one, but i don’t know. You know what? It just came out of the universe, but i was here to make decisions about technology solutions, and i was having some trouble, and yeah, so i just thought, you know what? I need to learn more about this. And so it’s been a good long years journey. And here we are spent a year curating content a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jamie wanted to share. What did you what have you learned in this curation process? So karen invited me in after she’s done. Quite. A bit of the legwork, which was wonderful on dh, so for me, it was really trying to look at the three different kind of areas of decision making, so we talked about the science on dh. Then we talked about what it’s like to take in additional information, and then we kind of talked about some of the the influences, and i think for me, one of the big things that i learned is is too to understand the systems that are happening every time that we face a decision. And that was really, really important because, like karen said, we’re here at the ntcdinosaur decisions a cz non-profits we’re faced with all kinds of, like, really important decisions on dh, so being able to kind of understand that process was really, really valuable as part of this whole, the building of the presentation, okay? So there’s, the science, the influences and the process all around our decision making. What did the count since you did most of the duration will give you the chance. What? What did you learn about the science of decision making? Well, it drew a lot from the work of dr daniel kahneman. Who? Wrote the book thinking fast and slow and he’s very respected in his field. He’s, a psychologist. And he also won the nobel prize in economics eggs for some of his work. So okay, smart guy. He basically proposed that our approaches to judgment and choice take their two mental systems or modes of thinking one of them is sort of fast and instinctual. Then the other is slower and deliberate. So that was sort of based on the different types of decisions we have to make, like whether whether it across the road now versus whether to buy a new home are hard wiring. You know, we could come free built right way. But we have different types of thes to these two methods of decision making. Break down into the types of decisions we have to make for sure, like one is mohr sort of natural. The fast thinking that we do is effortless is just something we do is we navigate our life. We drive the car down the road. Okay? Slow thinking is more deliberate, it’s more logical thinking through procedures. Little more algorithmic. So it takes more mental effort to do logical thinking decision making. It takes longer. Okay. More deliberative process. Yes, exactly. Um, is that all you learned on it for you in the years that all the science you master and that’s it? No. I mean, we boy, you could go on forever. I mean, a decision making is such a huge topic. You can look at it from a leadership aspect. Marketing behavioral economics. It’s huge. We just sort of focused in this session on, you know, information overload in an increasingly digital world. And how that’s we process that kind of information differently. Then then what? What we’re hardwired to do? Just perfect. Because that’s what you suffered after and twenty fifteen mental fatigue you were you were distressed and overloaded. Exactly, there’s. Not that you suffer from ntcdinosaur. The after effect was it was so much value, so much value. You were you were you were shell shocked. All right, um, so how can we start to help people in there decision making and let you know, let’s, take the the normal in our conversation. Let’s, take the normal day to day decisions. Not this. Something is simple minded is crossing the street. But, you know, some fair minded. Work decisions or personal decisions, but it is not his monumental is whether to buy a home, whether they have a child. But, you know, you know what? Like, what am i gonna have for dinner tonight or ah, whether i should have my parents over or, you know, i mean, average sort of day to day decisions, sort of in the middle of the spectrum, very fair, fair enough, very good point because our brain doesn’t doesn’t prioritize all the decisions we have to make in a day so we could be spending a lot of mental energy on things that are a trivial nature. Andi and then we don’t have enough reserves for the important ones, you know, when when we’re expending mental effort in our slow thinking we are we’re the brain is using twenty percent of our body’s energy, so we’re using up more of that energy in our in our logical processes. So if there’s a new way of losing weight, i just obsess about whether across the street now definitely can i can i lose twenty pounds? Not that i have a lot to lose, but but but, you know, yeah, i obsess about whether to put the stamp on the envelope right side up or upside down can i drop some pounds? You may drop some pounds. I know, i know. All kidding aside energy not calories, energy. Okay, assuming energy. Okay, but, i mean, you do. You are depleting some of your resources if you spend too much time on thing on decisions that just ultimately don’t matter that much. Ah, so, you know, some really good advice is to look at how you are. You know, how? First of all your energy when you’re making these decisions, you don’t want to make them when you’re tired and hungry? I mean, this is just obvious when you’re feeling emotional things, you can monitor about yourself. You know, in a busy life. We did go. Go, go, go, go. We don’t have this sort of transition zone to kind of recent reset our mental mode to the next transition zone. Right? We don’t. We don’t have. Okay. Okay, jamie, anything you want to add at this? Ah, scientific stage. Yeah, well, i think a lot of people can can relate to that. And that transferred really well from kind of talking about how as an individual, we make decisions and what influences us, whether it’s past memories, past experiences, you know, the time of the day how much you’ve had to eat, i think it really translates well when you’re talking about the non-profit world is a cz well, so if you are thinking about some major decisions that you need to make, you want to make sure that you’re you’re planning your board meeting an appropriate time of the day, you know, like so people are feeling fed if you feel really happy if you’re in a really good mood than that can actually make you less thoughtful in your decision making. And so we’re not saying that, you know, everybody should be kind of new thriller on happy in a board meeting, but just keeping these kinds of influences in mind. So in your day to day life, if you’re if you’re making decisions on what project to work on or if you’re making some of those bigger organization all decisions just keeping these influences in mind, khun b can actually have quite an impact, and that was really surprising to me to find out all of these external factors, aunt. How you know, just one of the stories that karen tell told in the session today was how if you’re holding a warm liquid like a cup of coffee? Yeah, you actually feel warmer feelings towards the people person that you’re chatting with, which makes sense culturally, like we get together over coffee all the time. And so and usually when someone asks you to go for coffee, it’s not because they want to yell at you, it’s, because they wanna have ah, positive, you know, productive kind of conversation, so that was was really interesting to think about and and that’s, what i loved about this session is it helped us kind of connect with our our own processes, but at the same time, we can think about how it influences our day to day work. Excellent, i liketo like that exploration of holding a warm liquid, what other other influences are there that we haven’t talked about yet? Well, we’re we’re influenced by almost everything in our environment, you know, our natural impulses when you know if i look at you and i see i might be able to detect that you’re angry, just buy one or two. Words that you say in the tone, you know, whether makes us happy if you ask someone if they’re happy and that’s a beautiful brightstep durney day, they’re more inclined to say that they’re happy than they are on a cloudy sort of moody day. You know, we are feeling beans before we are thinking beings and so, you know, this translates in our day to day life. All right, so how do we control some of these things? The one that we can control? We can control the weather, but our feelings, our state. How do we how do we sort of harness that? So that we do make better decisions? Well, you know a very simple thing you khun dio, is before you’re making a decision. Put yourself in a neutral state of mind. You know, you can. You can just say write down everything that you did yesterday, step by step in sequins i got up, i had breakfast, i drove to work had my day of work came home walk the dog you’re just sort of reset it’s like it’s like your computer, your rebooting your computer on then you’ve shifted your mental mode, you know? You’re not bringing in, maybe your emotion and your anxiety and whatever you’re kind of reset and then take the appropriate approach for what type of decision that that it is, you’re making. You want to just take a step back. You need this transition zone, you know, it’s hard, all the switching we do all the time, you know, between with multi task. And, you know, they’re really saying, well, what you’re doing is you’re you’re, you’re just doing attention switching, and that is very depleting in our mind, in our body. So, you know, having a little like, if you go to a therapist and you have an appointment, your appointments probably going to be about forty five minutes. It’s, not an hour, because they use some time to prepare. Have your session sometime to externalize what just happened and and collect some notes and be ready for the next person, you know, that’s logical. I see myself, yeah, i see my therapist for three hours, three hours, three times a day for a week, so i don’t know how she’s managing externalization she’s got just needs she needs to download, just like on the only person we could see each of those three days or practices suffering. I’m bolin pain, well, externalizing information. I mean it’s coming at us, and i mean, we we learn our brain like spatial, you know, and and the context of the environment that we learn in having all of this information coming at us. It’s. I mean, yes, lists are still important in this digital age. It’s still important to externalize some of what’s going on in your mind so that you can look at it as an observer in your environment, rather than you know, yeah, okay, yep, little dispassionate, yes, once removed, but but clearheaded. I see your head, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Anything else about these influences? Because we’re going now, we’re going to move to the process. Okay, but anything more about the influences? Well, i mean, biologically speaking, good moods. I mean, meant to us and our ancestors that environment was safe. We could we could relax a little. We could let our guard down, but that makes us less vigilant. You know, a bad mood. Singles tow us. Something’s wrong. I might need to protect myself. There might be a threat. I need to pay more attention. So, yeah, emotions. Like i said, we’re we’re thinking or feeling beings before we’re thinking. Okay? We moved to the process of of decision making. I mean, i feel like we’re sort of there, but okay, it sounds like yes. Yeah, well, i want to go there next. Well, one thing about the process, there is a lot of choice in today’s world, you know. Example, in the session we gave was going to pick out aspirin. You know, when you look at the isle of there’s, a spare for migraines and for sore muscles. And for all the different reasons you might have an ailment. But ultimately, maybe it’s the same. Product on homes have thousands and thousands of our possessions um, there’s research that shows that actually having too much choice leads us to make poor decisions, and we’re also dissatisfied with them. So having in the process fewer, fewer good options, but just a few and fewer variables, okay, karen is nodding a lot what you wantto into this? Well, i think that that ah, really translates well, when we’re thinking about that, the options that a lot of non-profits faces thinking, well, we can go in this direction, and we could do this kind of program or or use this kind of tactic, and what karen saying is is really like pairing that down and then making that decision and and the process of paring it down requires a decision as well. But i think a lot of us can agree that after a brainstorming session, it’s pretty obvious what some of the best options are, and then kind of taking a moment and taking a break, especially in, like, a working meeting where everyone has a chance to kind of reset and then that makes that actually makes the decision process easier on dh, that is really profound that sometimes people just want to kind of powerthru and say, it’s, getting towards the end of the day like we just need to make a decision. And that’s exactly right, you just need to make a decision. So in order to do that, you have to kind of think about all of these, all of the influences that air that are wrapped up in that. Okay, okay, we still have some time together. You spent ninety minutes on this and in your session, so has it goes quick, here’s a lot more to say and have enough time. This well, i mean, okay, the other the other part that we touched on in the session of the end was about creativity, because how can you choose the best option if you haven’t even imagined it? So part of it is developing some flexible thinking skills to, you know, be experimenting a little whimsical. And, um, you know, that requires sometime sometime in a calm mental state to do that kind of creative exploration. Eso we didn’t exercise in the session. We just ask everyone, what could you do with a marble? You know, similar to google? Asking what? Can you do with a pencil? Let’s? Try and see what we get. And some of the answers were like super unique. Jamie, can you ask the audience? Okay, what can we do with a marble? So it’s kind of fun? Yeah. Some people went really practical right away. Like i could hold it. I could put it in my mouth. I could put it in my head. I could put it on the table on dh. Then other folks also kind of went more creative right away. So one of our participants said you could write a haiku about it, which i she’s like it’s, not that left field, but but in the activity they had on an opportunity to work just by themselves and then to share and build upon. And i think what was really apparent is that a lot of the folks who participated said that that once they connected and started to build upon existing structure, then it it was really additive and really complimentary. And they started to go in more creative places. Yeah. Um, you know, along this line we were talking about the complexity of problems today and a lot of our problems are crossing borders and what is required. You know, i read something today about borderless leadership on dh you need a different skill set to address some of these problems. And so some of the things we talked about beyond creativity, where was critical thinking skills, you know, to look at all of the information coming at us and to be able to discern what is true and what is not true, what are some reliable sources, you know, and to be able to synthesise some of this information together with that we talked about being able to ask good questions, because that helps you ultimately make a better decision if you can clarify things so it’s kind of a lost art, you know, we reward people at work for having the answer rather than having a really good question and children asked several hundred questions a day on. Well, you probably ask a lot as an interviewer, but i do know i’m also child. I’m asking a thousand questions today in our day today, life like way asked everyone in the room, like, see if you can keep track of how many questions you ask today is probably going to be very few. Ah, very good skill to develop question answering how does that help us make better decisions? Jamie well, for me, i mean, in our work with the inside education, we we ask a lot of questions, so we do environmental programs with our students on we talked about natural resources in the environment and in that is this critical thinking piece. And so i found that if a student asked me a question and i turn it back to the rest of the classroom or or answered them with another question that it helps start to kind of peel back the layers and let’s folks realize they start to consider the question from a different perspective. So if i used the example in the session, you know, the first time a student asked me, well, what’s the difference between coal and charcoal? First of all, i couldn’t believe that i didn’t know the answer and it’s not a life changing thing, you know, like, i’ve gone so far without knowing that, and that was fine, but once i realised that it made me think to myself like, what else don’t i know about the world? Like, why don’t i know the difference between those two things and that’s the power of questions is that i know, like karen said in a professional life, sometimes if you’re if you’re in a meeting and and there’s questions about the reasoning behind the project that you’re working on, folks, khun bristle they can feel really defensive, but the power of asking a really good question is that it expands that horizon, and it helps you start to think about the bigger picture on dh then in that you’re able to think creatively and shift the paradigm and that that can only be helpful, you know? Okay, okay, we still have a couple minutes left. Let’s tease out. Come on. Did ninety minutes in a session. We’ll back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, never. I’ll never have your back-up billet. All related. Teo related to good questions and critical thinking is really about how we learn on dh and, you know, if you notice someone’s thinking process, if if if there’s a bias or they they they have a distorted reasoning, you know, we get defensive when people point out our errors. So the best way to help people see that they have maybe a flaw in their thinking is too created a learning experience for them to see the insight for themselves. Tohave a lightbulb moment an ah ha moment your mental mode shifts more easily when you discover it for yourself. How do you create this kind of moment? Teachers are good at creating this moment. What teachers are good you turned away from the mic, she said teachers were go to creating this moment on, i guess one of the ways that that i do that in a classroom with students is i you know, if we if we ask in opening question like what’s, a type of natural resource that we used to create energy, you know, some kids might have the answer right away and then others will be like lightning and it’s like, okay, so why did you say lightning? We don’t get electricity from from lightning, but why that? And then it helps them instead of saying no, you’re wrong because they’re they’re right. Lightning is electricity, but instead then we can kind of have a conversation about it, and then the student can come to the conclusion themselves working can work. Through the process themselves and say, okay, wait a second that doesn’t make sense, there’s nobody running around trying to capture lightning so that we can have power in our homes, but in that it doesn’t it’s that experience, and i think it resonates more with a student. I mean, this is such a trivial example, but like karen said, if, if there’s this this bias that occurs or this kind of error in thinking, i think everyone can relate to have someone if you have ah colleagues saying you’re wrong, the rest of the conversation doesn’t always go really well. So instead, you know yeah, you came, you can and it’s not avoiding the conversation, it’s just helping them kind of see, because that’s, the only way that that folks can kind of overcome is that if they experience that process themselves, it can be really hard to try to convince someone that they’re wrong and you’re right. But by building that experience by kind of understanding how our mind works and how thoughts are created, you can you can help increase that knowledge and expand the conversation instead of shutting it down and making it kind of antagonistic. Okay, okay. That sounds like a pretty good place to wrap up. Yeah, i think bernie’s consolation like you. All right. See, the closest to me is karen headed niimi, director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta. And if the same society is jamie nelson who’s, an educator at inside education, ladies, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. And this is that i thank you for being with us. Twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thank you. Next week. Definitely not fermentation. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is climb hyre off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scots time be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and i agree dahna what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. It took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for February 17, 2017: Don’t Burn Out In 2017 & Personalized Video

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Paul Loeb: Don’t Burn Out In 2017

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with ad elect assists if you deflated me with the notion that you missed today’s show, don’t burn out in twenty seventeen paul lobe has been doing social change since the vietnam war, and his most recent books are soul of a citizen, and the impossible will take a little while. After nearly fifty years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day after day, especially in a time when non-profits may suffer federal cutbacks. We talked at opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen in x top of mexico and personalized video or your videos engaging and deepening your donor connections. Are you taking advantage of video personas? Is video part of your donor onboarding and retention strategies? If you answered no to any of these, michael hoffman and jonno smith can help you. Michael is with c three communications and jonno smith is from make a wish america we talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two is your thanks sincere? We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is paul lobe with advice on not burning out. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen we’re back on the beach in x top of mexico with me is paul lobe he’s, the author, most recently of soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while, plus three other books before those those two have sold over a quarter million copies, you’ll find paul lobe at the impossible dot org’s polo. Welcome to the show. Glad to be here. Thanks. I’m glad we’re together on the beach. I want to talk about avoiding burnout. A lot of your work for decades. Going back to the seventies is in activism. Citizen activism, right? Um, taco, actually, let’s. Start with a cool story that i heard you tell about rosa parks. So it’s. Interesting. Because rosa parks is the sort of story that everyone thinks they know. You know i can go. I can be overseas and people know the name i can talk to eleven year olds and they know the name. Oh, yeah. She’s the lady on the bus. But what’s interesting to me is that most people know in a certain version and they know it as one day she was writing on this bus and sort of just feed retired. She just refused out of nowhere and single handedly launched the civil rights movement. You know, all by yourself is this lone heroic woman. And i get very frustrated when i hear that story because it strips away the context that’s so important understand that actually is much more empowering that that story and so i look in there several elements there’s the one he is that’s, their mistake, the element of community. So she at that point is the secretary of the end of the civil rights organization in montgomery, alabama. And she has worked for dozen years with the p co founded by her husband. That particular chapter was a barber in the city and she’s doing these sort of humble towns, like getting people to come to meetings and all the stuff that certainly is not going to make the history books. Or the network news or even page six of the local paper. And when you take that away and you take out all the other people that she’s working with, it becomes a sort of lone crusade, which is very much a mythology of our culture. I mean, you know, one of things i sometimes bright lad in the language around social on ownership is lone hero super person. Yeah, but she’s, part of a community that she’s built there’s, others in it. There’s ah, a union organizer, gotomeeting nixon who’s, the head of the local. At that point, he’s, the person who gets a very young and relics on martin luther king involved king is all these excuses. He’s young he’s, new in town is thing was reluctant to join. He was reluctant to join. Yeah, he’s reluctant step for we think of them as leaping forward, but at that point, he has not really fully he’s not embraced that path. He’s still, you know, well, i i’ve got divinity school. I’m going to be a minister and it’s not at all clear that that’s going to be his direction. So he’s looking, i think warily at it and there’s a phrase i used the perfect standard, which is the notion that you need to know everything be the perfect place in your life, be the combination of sort of albert einstein, gandhi, king wonder woman, mother grace, you know, add seven other people, you know, none of us is ever going to get there so and it’s also about the perfect time and place and, of course, he’s saying, well, it’s, not the perfect time in place. I’m too young, i’m do knew all the excuses, you know, in his case elements of truth, but he’s their excuses. And so it’s nixon, who persists, gets king involved, and montgomery is where the world hears the king as well as in rosa parks. So when you strip that away and you make it the long hero, it ends up, i would say, being very disempowering to people, even though think it’s an inspiring story because they have to be as her work as a perceived princessa rosa parks perceived rosa parks as opposed to the real heroism which is doing the stuff day after day after day. Um, and then the second element is that they think it is. A sort of accidental action one day, her feet hurt, but there she wasn’t. The first person refused to move to the back of the bus. There was a young woman who was actually unmarried and pregnant. They just died not from the youth section, not to build a campaign around because they’re up against enough as it is latto strategic decision and these parks had got the summer before arrests, going to trainings at a place called highlander center labor and civil rights center still going in tennessee despite being burned at once by the group klux klan and so she’s meeting with an earlier generation of civil rights activists smaller move but still certainly present and when she acts it’s intentional, intentional doesn’t mean she knows the outcome. I always said that there’s a two, two aspects one is, you’ve got to have a leap of faith. The minister, jim waller’s, from the social justice magazine sojourner, says hope is believing in spite of the evidence and then watching the evidence change. Yeah, so, you know, by your actions, you change and you have believe it faith about the possibility, but right next to that is intentionality, which just means you’ll be strategic. So you’re looking at you’re saying, ok, what do want accomplished? How do we get there? Who are allies are the obstacles? How do we get the resource is how do we carry it out? How do we tell our stories? All the practical stuff? Of course they had to deal with that montgomery and and when parks took that leap, she also knew that it was going to be part of intentional campaign. They would run his best they could. And, you know, they’d see where lead and it is. Yeah. I love the story because of the intentionality aspect, and that leads us to the social change work the people are doing now, right? And where we get to the potential for burn out in all this day after day after day after work that is so intentional and so time consuming, right? And and so and so emotionally fraught. And the stakes could be life and death and disappointing. Yes. And i just ate pointing. Yeah, yeah. You know, never enough resource is all of those kinds of things. So so i think there’s a third element. That’s missing is perseverance, which is okay, you know, twelve years, if she gives up in your tender rate, we’ve never so and so and so that that carries into that question of burnout persisted. You have to keep going. So let’s spend some time talking about sort of empowering people toe, right? Not burn out in their day to day work as they’re going about their struggles. Where? Wherever in the world yeah, you, uh you believe a lot in, uh, support and they do, and the disempowerment of isolation isolation is the killer. I mean, when you feel like you’re the only one you’re up against every but when you change it to okay, we’re up against a lot, but there is a way and the wii doesn’t have to be thousands of people. It can be three or four people that are the ones that you rely on, but it’s so easy. I mean, i i find myself i run a project that i found it that gets students engaged in elections using the resource is of the colleges and universities. Shut that out. What’s the name the campus election engagement project. Campus elect a door ad it’s really demanding on dh. You know, resource is and on also sometimes, you know, really hard personnel situations and, you know, because this comes up, you hire people and sometimes problems like you and i remember one particularly acute situation, which really, wass i mean, it was just the kind of thing we are going to details that just wrenches your heart wrenches your soul on it had the potential to destroy the organization and and just trying to deal with my own. And then, you know, call. I talked to a friend who we have really wonderful street newspaper in seattle where i live real change that where homeless people sell it and it’s partly professional staff partly almost poses a great model. And, you know, i just called my friend who who ran it was like, ok, tim, why don’t i d’oh it’s like, you know, you really you know, this is something that you can’t you’re not large enough to handle the son, you know, you know, when you know, you just hear this, you have to be ableto, you know, hard as it is to say, this person can’t be apart the organization because, you know, it’s just this otherwise you’ll be in constant crisis, so we need to have support. Yeah, it could be it could be colleagues similarly situated right in the community or across the country, right? Yeah, could be, yeah, with funders even made the tech with the technologies we have, you know, it doesn’t have to be geographically focused. Yeah, but you do have tohave and you have to have a team of folks. I mean, on the other side is we’re doing, like, i mean, i’m asking people in my election project to basically take the culture of us college or university, get access to the administration, and we go in through sametz works that they tend to work with, but even still, you know, and the student government convinced them to do something that they haven’t done before, or now that some of them now they have done because they worked with us, which is to make a priority of registering their students to vote and getting to reflect on issues and helping them turnout at the polls in all non partisan is this school has to be done lorts ad and i mean, we’re just think, okay, here it is, here’s how we’ve done it before go do it and so it’s hard. So, you know, part of even like working it’s harder working virtually, but we have our conference calls each, you know, in the heat of it every week and me, we’re gonna do a video or we don’t go hang out or whatever, and we’re supporting each other. We’re appreciating each other’s successes were brain streaming through the through the project. We also have coaching the cohesion in the group is what sort of were being extremely were being extremely intentional. The cohesion doesn’t happen automatically were laughing and making jokes talking about, oh, did something cool happened in your personal life? Two be able to sort of give people the sense that it’s not just because in our particular case, they really are physically on their own there’s not somebody in an office, but they’re off on a college campus know weather off where they happen to live, and then they’re either talking by phone or visit making site this is tow campuses, but they don’t have the calling next to them. So we try and very intentionally create that community because otherwise they would they will burn. Out, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna about in in recruitment, there’s gotta be there’s gotta be things that you look for bringing people to the organization that are going to help create this cohesion, you know, it’s a good question, i’m not, and i wouldn’t say i’ve always been perfect at it. I would have had my share of a fallibility, but i do think that, you know, as i learn and we all do, you know that being able to i mean, have a strong sense of self but also know that you’re not going to do it all on your own know that you’re going to be working with others no, that have a sense of humor. I mean, if you’ve got a sense of humor, helps help cement slim and you see people in just, you know, dealing with the hardest i lost the vote, heart wrenching situations and there’s a sort of i mean, somebody called gallows humor, which french trenches humor has in-kind wartime or whatever guys get you through it’s so important in prison culture, they talk about the brotherhood of suffering, yeah, it helps to be that cohesive group, right? And so, you know, one of the stories i tell in the impossible, take a little while. Um, is, you know, they’re breaking it robben island prison in south africa, you know, they’re telling mandela and all those other folks, you know, you are going to rot here, the world has forgotten about you, you will never leave here alive, and they isolate him in every way they can. And so they’re breaking rocks in a prison courtyard, and they start whistling a freedom song and just just that, you know, okay, we’re not allowed to have this political conversation, but we all know what this means, and they’re they’re ice. They’re denied newspapers and, you know, further isolate him. And they said guard who’s got his tuna fish sandwich wrapped in a newspaper and throws, you know, sandwich stores in his paper in the trash, take it surreptitiously under their shirt. They see a story that they think might give each other heart and in a kind of coded script on toilet paper’s only paper, most of them had access to the right, you know, just something that will tell that story of the outside world so that people are connected to the outside world to each other. And then they pass it hand in hand, you know, when they’re waiting, you know, had lunch or whatever the damn chance or in the yard. Yeah, so it’s just it’s those air extreme situations, but they also suggests to me that and this is the lesson of both soul of a citizen and be impossible to take a little while, but that in any situation, you know, you don’t have to be faced in prison. But if you’re doing difficult work, you need that camaraderie. You need that community. And you have gotta be we know recently intentional about trading it about, uh, the scope of the work of the organization being judicious about what the organization takes on, right. So it’s not straying from mission and and stressing stressing in killing staff? Well, yeah, i think we are. I mean, i think we all face that challenge because if you’re trying to do something, i mean, i was the needs are so great, the needs are so great, and i always encourage people to think really large and to tackle big systems on a lot of times. There’s a tendency to sort of yeah, which i describe it. It’s i think there’s a value in that more delimited personal work, it’s i don’t want to demean it in any way. Hyre but i remember stanford students saying very well meaning lee, i’ve learned so much volunteering at this homeless shelter, i hope my grandchildren get the opportunity to volunteer at the same homeless shelter that i have and as his friends sort of try to gently remind him that really wasn’t the point. And so if you’re working at the homeless shelter, which is great, you wantto look upstream and you want to be able to say, okay, what am i learning from this one on one encounter? And how do i buy-in with others and join together others to tackle homelessness on a larger platform? Because if you don’t it’s just going to the endless parade of need, so i think that that’s true and at the same time well, where do you draw the bounds? And you look around the issues and there’s poverty and inequality and climate change and, you know, on and on and on, you know, police violence, i’m not stone on on on how do you deal with all of it? And so i think part of it is just you do have to think about what your capacity is. You do have to think about the past people. I tend to be somebody who thinks large and tries to get my project on staff to think large and probably, you know, maybe drives them a little too hard. But by national directories is wonderful. Twenty eight year old is pretty good at balancing, like, all right, you know, this is what we can ask people to do. And if they do it, well, that will matter. But i have this wonderful friend who i nufer years who died at a hundred to is an environmental activist. And of course, you know what time she reaches her. You know, late eighties and nineties, you know, you’re asking your weather sees her secret of longevity is certainly but also her secret of being able to keep doing this work. Yeah, on and so, you know, one of the phrases she does that you know, you you do what you can, you can’t do everything you have to say no to people, but you can do what you can and then you could do some more and you could do that your entire life. And then she also another point she was talking about reviving our spirits and she said, you know, you go kayaking, you go hiking, she both into her nineties and she gets the mist of a smile and she says, then you come back ready to take on exxon, you know, so she’s willing to take on exxon, but she also knows that she has to go do those other things to renew her soul, you know? And, you know, and humor and just she and this sort of goes to the recruitment to you, right? You recruiting hole people? Yeah, you have other interests beyond the work that you’re you’re hiring them for your not recruiting robot? Yeah, no, absolutely. And so i think having, you know, having people who really are just i mean, it’s hard because i always want people who are passionate about the cause, but also but not one dimensional, but no one dimensional. Yeah, yeah, and not, you know, we’re not recruiting robots aboutthe aboard as potential support you, you know, in times again, times of burnout, we’re not talking about your fiduciary responsibilities. But hyre valuable to have a couple of trusted board members who, you know, i would you can’t trust confide in i mean, i would say the trusted people can be anywhere, so i think, you know, if they’re on the board that’s terrific, you know? And there was also i mean, sometimes you sort of worry, will you exposure in, er, you know, the afraid of the classic phrase about politics and sausage making it’s like you really don’t want to see how the sausage is made? I mean, there was there was at least those those sure are meat eaters and made sausage sometimes i really don’t want to see how it’s made and, you know, do you expose the inner workings that boardmember than thinking, oh, my god, this is like, you know, we’re in crisis, we’re in crisis, you know, you know, and the same thing’s true with funders, i mean, certainly myself, you know, there’s funders who i have a very serious, trusting relationship who really do want to know and who i trust if they recognise that, oh, everything is not going perfectly, but this is true in any organization and is not and he’s, perfectly compatible with doing astounding work, you know, i remember i had a staffer once was running operation brilliant, brilliant guy and you, you know, innovated. A lot of the things that moved us forward is an organization, but at one point he liked the plan, which is good because he brought. He brought us to a higher level of planning, and planning is really good. But at one point, he said, it’s supposed to election is that you planned all this stuff out and, you know, it’s all going out, it’s all happening, different blade, yeah, and i’m like and yes, and that’s always going to be the way it iss. It is gonna happen differently, and the planning was good and it makes us respond, you know more effectively, but there’s always going to be if you’re doing anything worthwhile, ambitious enough to be worthwhile, there are always gonna be things coming in from left field on her balls and what not and it’s just. How about sort of going backto what the one hundred two year old activist saying she kayaks, etcetera, right? And he’s mischievous? I mean, i remember a lot of us hundred to you talk. I think there are like he was busy in your party little chablis apartment lived on second, section eight subsidence dilgence social security, which, when she was twenty three years old, as a young union activists, should help lobbied through one of the first public pension programs in america became a model for social security, so something she did in twenty three or four benefits there are ninety eight, ninety nine, one hundred, and i think her i can’t see what she was talking about her landlord and said, well, you know what? If something happens, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole in the backyard. I’m pretty small. I don’t take up my face, you know? She just was she didn’t know there was one point there was was in central america, something there was a congressman she met. She was very active with the audubon society and and who very condescendingly in the way that when does towards the old than the young sort. Said to her, oh, so i hear you’re a birdwatcher like, isn’t that? And she said, yes, there’s a lot of birds in washington d c that need watching these days, but i was thinking of the kayaking, she she takes care of herself, she takes care of its just got this wonderful sense of humor, right? And she’s a kayaker and yes, you know, so having similar to recruiting people who aren’t one dimensional, not being one dimensional yourself. Yeah, i mean, you do have to take care of yourself. You do. I’m a big proponent of naps. Yeah, i’ve blogged about the the the the love i have for napping. But whatever it is, you do need to have something outside. Yeah, yeah, i know it and it’s true. And, you know, and again, i think we all wrestle with i mean, i certainly wrestle with that it’s like, you know, on, you know, my wife’s going out to see a play. I’m she works very. She works very hard, but in a more contained space probably dad, you know? And i’m like no, i got this deadline. I got to do this, you know? But, you know, if i over the years on a runner and run in my early sixties and been running since i’m fifteen and fortunately, my knees haven’t given out and so, you know, if i go run, i also live in seattle, so i get to run by water, but, you know, if i’m traveling, lecturing on the road, it’s, like i take a break, which because i met town, make my living, you know, i take a break and i run along usually if there’s water around, i’m going to run along the river or the stream of the, you know, whatever the lake and it just, you know, physically, it flushes me, you know, they did toxicity out of you, but it also just, you know, it gives you a space and it’s it’s, you feel better afterwards? Endorphins, there’s lot to be said for endorphins, flood flow. All that stuff suppressing the stress hormones. Yeah, yeah, i can think of offhand. Well, no, gentlemen. One of them? Yeah. Suppressing those. Yeah, and building up endorphins. And yet, yeah. And i think also things like diet. Yeah. He’s getting enough sleep? Yeah, yeah. I mean, i called. I mean, i called the holy trinity of, you know, exercise diet, which includes, um, good supplements. Yeah. Ok. And after? Yeah, not not on the suicide. Very practical. And you know what? Yeah, you are dealing with serious dressed. This will help. Uh, this will lower your cortisone there’s. Another right doesn’t stretch on and, you know, and sleep, were i my sleep tends not to be that great. So i just figure okay, i’m gonna log nine hours to get a where you get seven and a half, okay? Yeah. And, you know, and that helps about switch gears a bit to the teo donor-centric team. It don’t, er burnout, right? You know, i’ve been doing this. I’ve been supporting this cause a long time. I feel like it’s time to move on. I need any advice around that. Well, i think part of what happens is people have this constant pressure to sort of see the quick short term results and a lot of times howard’s in new york by accepting the impossible take a little while the greatest story. And he talks about the optimism of uncertain. You don’t know when the moment will turn you go backto parks. Of all, the wasn’t like she was doing lots of things for twelve years, as they all were one of them little spark, but you couldn’t anticipate which and so i think, it’s very it’s, very easy to sort of say that success is for human dignity that we’ve had were inevitable civil rights movement. Of course, eventually they would have revealed gay rights in eventually. Well, our environmental challenges open question whether we will be able you do what we need. Well, we are able to do what we need climate change, but they have the will is yeah, the will for it. I mean right now, you know, the technology is there, renewables have now passed, you know, they are cheaper than coal, there are equal with fossil fuel without any externalities at all. And you know, when next molly’s it’s not even close. So but will we have the political will? I don’t know, um, it depends on us and you and the stakes are pretty ultimate because, you know, we’re talking about the habitability of the planet. So you know, when i when i look at it, you know what i what i see is donors being subject to the same schools is the rest of us buy-in possibly possibly in a more mediate wet because they’re not actual sum of money, but a lot of making sure they aren’t in the field, they’re they’re dealing with, you know, with them, you know, then the publicans of hands, possibly and it’s so and they’re getting reports, but they may not even have time to read the reports and, you know, depends on how good the people are a storytelling and so i think and, you know, let’s be honest, at least on some issues, they they may be insulated by privilege, they’re not, you know, they’re not seeing in their social circle, and i remember talking with one of our funders, and she said, well, she has a couple different pieces, like one of her groups, they are just not always down in silicon valley, they are just not at all concerned about this stuff at all and, you know, so she’s an environment that is not reinforcing her concern. Yeah, and that’s what? You know, that makes it harder to continue as a donor, then everyone’s talking about these urgent issues and oh, yeah and, you know, here you are, so you’re trying to address them, so i think you know, the challenges well for the rest of us, to try and offer that perspective in our work, which is hard because we’re often mean again, the stakes couldn’t be life and death, you know, they’re huge, even if they’re not immediately life and death wait care passionate about our families to myself, it’s like this is what we can do, and we want to put these many people on the ground in our states in time to really work with the school’s for this election and the clock is ticking and, you know, so, you know, from the donor perspective, if you want to try and really see that long term, you know, i mean, and of course, you want to be rigorous and you want all the rest of this stuff, but not get but see that long term goal is his long term goal recognized the the the short term, the short term impacts we can have, right? And but you also see the longer the wait and see how things build on the other thing i think is, you know, there’s a certain, you know, i would argue that our our culture, including certain the non-profit donor intersection, has that has adopted dahna bh session with certain kinds of measurement to the detriment of other kinds of metro meant measurement. And so it’s, metrix, metrix, metrix, metrix and i mean, i mean, i’ve been seattle in a city where it’s particularly talks, because we’ve got a tech culture, and yeah, some of the numbers could be exceptionally important. There’s, no question about that, but here’s, a story that embodies the process of what’s occurring that can be equally indicative. And so when you’re trying to evaluate impact, which is a reasonable in good thing, you want to take that broad, long term picture, and you want to get the understand all the different ripples of a particular organization. You’re supporting our considering supporting. Yeah. That that’s that can be as warm or important. Then then the numbers, you know, and not to dismiss the numbers, you know, but another way of measuring there’s qualitative, this good storytelling as well. Yeah, but, you know, in which can include numbers which can include numbers the air of i mean, you know, when i talked to donors, they know we have some very good numbers on our project. Way from our best calculations. Couple hundred thousand students who voted our last year who wouldn’t have otherwise? This is huge, you know, for a tiny minute budget of well, i have less than half a million dollar budget for that level of impact is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, we just have about a minute left or so you’ve been doing activism. What? Forty some years? Forty something years. It creeps up on you. What do you love about it? Why do you keep forty you? Why so long? What do you love? Well, some of it’s that the work continues to need to be doing dahna but some of it is that you do. I think the old skills and you build a sense of capability. And you can see, things happen that you’ve done or and this is what i would say is that everybody wait the books that i write, try it like impossible and so try to connect people to a broader stream of people working for such for social justice that started way before any of us were born and is going to continue long after we die. And if we feel connected that stream, it can help carry us, and we can help carry others. And to me that’s a lot of what keeps me doing it because it means that not only do i have a community that supports me current time, but i have a community of historical time, which i could see is supporting, and that makes you an awful lot of difference. Follow-up he’s written five books, the most recent our soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while you’ll find him at the impossible dot or ge paul, thank you so much. My pleasure. Been a real pleasure talking to you. Thanks a lot. On the beach on the joanie martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration. Twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us personalized video coming up first, pursuing they have mohr free research for you. This one is a paper it’s their e-giving outlook report. They bring in data from several industry reports, different reports and put it together with their own boots on the ground perspective as fund-raising consultants to give you precautions, opportunities and questions for discussion in your office e-giving outlook report by pursuant and it’s at. Pursuant dot com click resource is than content papers we’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out this video? You’ll see live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling and raising money from millennials it’s that we be e spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two my video this week is, is your thanks since here less thanksgiving, i got two messages that said, thanks, but they added in promotion and solicitation that made them sound less than sincere like here’s an example. Just wanna wish you a happy thanksgiving and ask about your athletic fund-raising i’m kidding like, well, happy thanksgiving to you. And can i borrow five hundred bucks? Have you got all the insurance you need? Uh, might you be in the market for a used car happy thanksgiving i have another example of something less than sincere and a little more to say about sincerity. The video is at tony martignetti dot com that is tony steak, too, from ntcdinosaur sixteen here. Michael hoffman and jonno smith on personalized video welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is day three with e san jose convention center, and this interview is also part of ntc conversations. My guests now are michael’s, michael hoffman and jonno smith. We’re going to eat them in a moment. First, i have to shut out the swag item for this interview, doing one each time and this is a t shirt from canopy studios. What i like about this one is the pretty green tag i mean, they don’t just toss you a t shirt and throw it on, but comes a little pretty green ribbon, i should say pretty green ribbon. We had that to the swag pile the three day pile with a small thumb because that’s a soft item, alright. Michael hoffman and jonno smith. Michael is ceo at sea three communications. Jonno smith is director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you, michael. Michael, welcome back. Thank you, it’s. Good to be back two years ago and tc believe was twentieth. Twenty fourteen. Your workshop topic donor onboarding and stewardship using personalized video to create stronger constituent ties and raise more money. Okay. That’s a mouthful. Yes. Let’s, let’s. Start with michael. You’re the c three is a video production company and marketing what’s. What is personalized video? Personalized video is away. Toe put user data inside a video to give every individual a personalized video experience. So it may say hi, tony, in the video and you get a link to that video that’s for you. So it’s almost like mail merge for video. All right, what’s the okay, i have a couple questions. Can this be done on a large scale or were absolutely so we’re not talking about recording an individual video about now we’re talking about tony. Hello, michael. Hell, john, we’re not doing that. We’re talking about automated triggers with a c r m so that we can take any data out of your database and say tony gave fifty dollars, last year. Tony, will you give one? Hundred dollars this year. Or thank you for your gift of x and the ex comes from the database. Okay? And these are called triggers. Within a video, you create a trigger to make the video so it might be a first time gift. Or it might be trying to upgrade you. And then the system will produce a video on the service side and send you a link to a video that has your name in it on way. See that people are incredibly responsive when we are customized to their own experience. How okay, if if i am the person in the video howto my lips sync with each different persons also mostly we don’t do audio we just to text on the screen so it might say hi, tony in ah in words on the screen on then there’s kind of a generic voice over. We have done it with voice and basically the way you do that would be to record, you know, the top two hundred first names, for example, and then and then have a default for names that don’t fit so most people would get you know, something that that says their name. And other people get some default, but usually that’s not necessarily worth the effort, because just seeing your name on the screen and seeing a donation amount or something specific about you, i really had an impact. Upstanding how long have we had this personalized video technology? We’ve been doing it for years, mostly for peer-to-peer fund-raising sofer run, walk and ride fund-raising mostly tto help the person who’s raising the money, who’s just a donor really ask others for money, so it’ll say, you know, tony is walking in the in the important, you know, make a wish event. Yeah, and you should support tony and and so you could just send that video to your friends, and that does the asking for you because most people don’t like to do the asking, and most people aren’t very good at it. So we’ve seen that raise money we’re doing working now with the alzheimer’s foundation and alzheimer’s association, and we’ve done for american cancer society, and we’ve done for autism speaks we’ve done from video reference it’s a very successful company. Did you develop this? We did. Yeah, we did. And there’s other other folks doing it there’s some. Companies that just do this for the corporate side, which is really what got us into the question of onboarding and stored ship on retention because we’re seeing companies like a t and t uses technology to welcome new customers to say hi, tony, this is what you ordered this when you’re billing date is this is who you know and and it keeps people are connected. I saw jonno check his watch. He’s. Well, let’s bring you in there’s a part of this. You know what? I’m speaking at a ten o’clock. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Okay, it’s. Nine. Forty. All right, we’ll try to be mined mindful of that, but i got to get these twenty one minutes out of you. All right, so how is make-a-wish using this? Well, what we’ve done is work with michael’s team to create nineteen in nine different audience personas. And historically, all of our video has been very make-a-wish centric and not focus on our constituents. Oh, and so we created dahna personas volunteer personas medical professionals because they’re very important to our wish referral process, huh? And have rolled those out across all sixty two our chapters in the us. As a framework for them to think about storytelling and video storytelling specifically in a different way. I’m not just talking about make a wish and how great we are, which we are, but we couldn’t do what we do without hundreds of different people to make witches happen. And so by featuring these different personas in our videos, it really moves make-a-wish out of the hero role and more into the mentor role and puts our constituents ahs the hero of our story. So personalized video is just one tactic in a in a bigger strategy, which is to really understand who your donors are and speak to them, you know, clear directly, personally, thoughtfully, yeah, we’ve been just really privileged partner with make a wish on figuring out who those who those folks are today and who they will be in the future and on dh, then to be helping them shift the messaging so that it really speaks to those people in their role. Yeah, it really does mean using their name that speaks to them. Yeah, right, i’m saying, but even outside the technique of personalized video, we’re doing that through all other kinds of content. Development just wanna banding that, you know, the major donor is of this age or is likely to like these things. Then when you start to create content, you speak more clearly to those people, even if you’re not using their name. Okay? And this is one of many channels that you’re communicating with courses altum staying multi-channel sure, all right, you know, you’re specifically using this for donor onboarding and retention or stewardship? How, john, how are you using it in the end? Donor-centric video technique, it’s personalized video is just one tactic that we’ve used around this donor onboarding in sword ship. Oh, okay, but well, you have video personas, though yes, so just a little bit different. We’re not at the point yet where we’re featuring the person’s name in the video, okay, but we’ve just changed the storytelling archetypes, so to speak, to focus on these different individuals and make them the folks of the video instead of it being all about us, okay, makes a lot of sense. All right, so then for onboarding michael, how how are non-profits using it or how might they? Yeah, i i think i think it’s a powerful opportunity. To say when somebody doesn’t action or does a donation to say to them, you know what you just did was really important and organisations are so focused on acquisition all the time, it’s like that new name, that first gift that they forget to amaze and delight their donors afterwards. And so the theory and we’re seeing it again in the corporate world, is that if you treat them well at the beginning and you explain what they did and why it was important, then they’re going to stay with you longer. And so we know, for example, that monthly givers often drop off after a couple months when they see this thing recurring on their credit card, but if you keep them for longer than a few months, they might stay for seven years, so just using different techniques, personalized video being one of them to really speak to them in those moments and say, hey, what you’re doing is really important and here’s the impact that it’s having and here’s people like you who are doing it and doing incredible things and making them part of the story, one of our most important metrics is donor commitment. Score, which is the non-profit equivalent of the net promoter score and we measure that on an annual basis with our donors, you have to explain what the net promote. I have george in jail on sorry twenty martignetti non-profit radio i do not know what the net promoter score is, so and i’m the on the orbiter for jorgen shell. So? So when amazon asks you, how likely you to recommend amazon to a friend on a zero to ten basis, the nines and tens are considered promoters of that brand and the ones most likely to purchase again and to refer amazon and there’s a group that’s adapted that for the nonprofit sector and not only asks, how likely are you to donate to this organization? But are they your favorite charity? Do you love this organization? And they combine those scores to understand the donor’s commitment? And so we measure that on an annual basis and what we’ve seen since we’ve transitioned to the more personalized form of storytelling in general and specifically through video is that our donor commitment scores have started teo increase because the donor’s air really seeing themselves in our stories for the first time and in a long time, okay, and what are some of the other techniques that you’re using alongside the personalized video? So we’ve once we created these nine different personas, we actually built collateral around them for all sixty two of our chapters and developed with michael’s team, a flip book that sits on every marketer and fundraisers desk throughout make-a-wish way have a thousand employees throughout the u s and so having a shift like this and storytelling was a massive endeavor. We didn’t want the personas to end up on the shelf in the office, so to speak. And so literally we put these flip books on everyone’s desk, and when they’re getting ready to send an email or write a direct mail letter or create a video or whatever the case, maybe they can literally flip the persona and remind themselves about their demographics there. Psychographic sw what? What these individuals value so they make sure that they’re truly speaking to these individuals and personalized and segmented way, right? So if you’re writing an e mail or you’re writing a facebook post, you look at those pictures of those people and you say, well, will this person like that was this speaking to them now they’re not it’s not speaking to everyone. It’s, speaking to specific types of supporters donors wish, refers on making that really top of mind all the time when you’re doing content creation. Now the flip books are the persona. Yeah, the nine percent cracked and their posters on the walls and there’s, you know, an idea of like these air, our constituents, we need to be talking to these people, you’re not the audience, these in the audience. So when we think about the language we use, when we think about the things we want to share, when we think about how to ask for for donations, we have to look at these faces and their character, and we have to say, you know, will this resonate with them on dh that sharpens started to sharpen the messaging on, but also diversifies the messaging because it’s not just one one type, so make a wish kind of got caught in talking one way tau one type and the way to grow is really to think about, well, who were those other types that we weren’t speaking too? Okay, and it sounds like common sense, right? People have been talking about being donor-centric and constituent centric it conferences in presentations and white papers for ten years, but the reality is, most organizations have not really embraced that. And although it seems like common sense and doesn’t sound like a controversial idea, it was actually very controversial for many of our chapters, especially those with staff who have been there for ten, fifteen, twenty years. They’ve been used to talking exclusively about make a wish, make a wish being the focus, and when we said no, if we’re going to grow, if our donor commitment scores are going to rise, we need to flip that and people were resistant to that. And so the flip books really helps push that along. What are some of the other personas you mentioned? Doctors, volunteers, major donors? Who some what are some of the other? Sure so we created not only current heh personas, but perspective personas of those who were not currently reaching that we feel like there’s a good opportunity. Two one example of that is a volunteer persona of an older male. Most of our volunteers are younger females, but we thought there was an opportunity with men who are approaching retirement age to become volunteers who helped grant our wishes. A tte the same time, those individuals could potentially become candidates for plant giving, major gifts and so forth. Doctor’s on social workers and child life specialists, or court our mission. And they’re a really difficult audience to reach. Eso, we develop personas for all three of those individuals. And it’s enabled our chapters toe. Think ah, a little bit more strategically, about how they get into the conversation, in hospitals, in treatment centers and with nurses, and so forth. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I like the idea that it’s not only people you’re dealing with now, but perspective volunteers, for instance, the old er, the old er older guys, yeah, i mean, that was really an important insight that michael’s team helped us come teo and sell internally. Yeah, yeah, and also, for example, it fits in with the diversification of america as well. So, you know, we have a millennial donor-centric perspective dahna persona whose latino so, you know, those air communities that the chapters are starting to connect teo and don’t necessarily have the insight or the language to connect well, and so the persona is help them do that. Jonah, what kind of reactions have you gotten from donors who have received personalized video for whatever stage of their relationship with you? Yeah, so, ah, since we started implementing this about a year ago, ah, pretty much every single metric on our youtube channel has doubled subscribers, engagement, comments, shares, you name it, we’ve, you know, historically are channel had gotten a little flat. Excuse me, are these personalized don’t don’t personalize videos on youtube channel their videos with these personas featured in them on our youtube channel? Yes, not not the ones personalized each individual doesn’t. The person doesn’t go to youtube to watch it. It’s a it’s a private somewhere, as i said make-a-wish e-giving treyz you guys wait, give me a break elearning this now i’ve got about fifteen minutes of forty six seconds into personalized video. You’ve been doing it for years, okay? Yes, yes. Oh, no. Just saying that personalized video where the name appears in it is one tactic that make a wish is not using yet right? And they’re using the broader approach, which is to really see yourself in the video in the broad sense that there were somebody like you on the video, i think that’s having a great impact, i thought you meant they weren’t using them in donor onboarding but you’re not not using that. You haven’t personalized the videos yet, correct. Okay, you too. Metrics have doubled in views in every single way. Yeah, as you know, we believe as a result of changing the storytelling paradigm on youtube. Historically, all of our videos were about the wish, the child’s name, their disease and what they wish for organization centric or when you were talking about being donor-centric exactly, and now they can actually see themselves in these videos, riel live donors, medical professionals, volunteers contributing to our mission. We saw a video in the session that that make-a-wish produced that was these guys who created a polar plunge thing, and then they were somebody said, why don’t you make it a fundraiser? And they raised over five million dollars for make a wish and the video was about they spill it on you, but the video was about them, right? And there the donors on there, the fundraisers in the video was about them. It wasn’t just about the wish kids and the impact they had a huge impact. It had a huge impact on their life, right? They were incredibly moved by it. So this donor-centric heimans techniques is really saying, well, that’s an important story to tell and that impact is valuable, right? The impact on the child is a focus, but that impact on the donor is a real value and it’s something that make a wish is bringing to the world and let’s talk about it. Yeah, i mean, videos like this, i think, really make volunteering and giving contagious because people are able to see themselves in these videos more than they have in the past and they can say, well, if these these two guys from long island put together a polar bear plunge that raises five million dollars from make a wish, why can’t i do that? Why? Why haven’t i done something as simple as that that’s exactly how the ice bucket challenge took off right for for a l s purely organic and it was it was a beneficiary who thought of the thought of it, and it is now obviously took off from there. So in this case, a donor saw it and said, why don’t we do the same thing? So it’s our job to remind people every day how they khun get involved and and stay of involved? And if we’re just talking about us, we’re not going to be able to be doing that. Yeah. Grayce now, general, won’t be respectful of your time. It’s ah, about seven minutes of no it’s. All right, ten. Thirty i’m good. Oh, ten. Thirty. Okay. Okay. Because michael and i could’ve wrapped up in like, the next three, four minutes. But you’re good till ten. Thirty, i speak in ten. Thirty, so okay. Oh, yeah. We’re gonna get you wrapped up in a few minutes. Okay. Um, so we do have a few more minutes left. What what more can we say about this technique? The multi-channel that goes along with think, you know, important thing to say is that there’s a lot of shiny objects here. There’s a lot of technology is there’s a lot of good strategy, but in the end of the day, it all bumps up against culture and capacity. And and so you can say let’s be donor-centric you can say whatever, but if you have buy-in grain silos, if you have people have been doing some things for thirty years the same way that’s, what you’re going to run into, and so well we’re really focused on and what we’ve been working with jonno. And is this culture change and that’s not an easy process? That’s something. But if it’s not built in tow, whatever it is it’s it’s not gonna work. So when we think about strategy, we really think about that culture and capacity and, you know, how are we designing for change? Johnno talk a little about that. Because this this applies not only to a video strategy but really anything new where there are long term employees who haven’t been doing this way. Culture change, we all know, is enormously difficult. How did you bring along the recalcitrant ones? Yeah, absolutely so creating the percentage was twenty percent of the challenge, you know, eighty percent was rolling it out, and we work with michael’s team to create something internally. We call the content strategy collaborative, and we’ve broken our sixty two jap chapters into cohorts of fifteen, fifteen chapters with similar characteristics and are putting them through a nine months virtual learning program where each month they participate in a webinar on a topic related to one of the personas. Then they have personalized one on one coaching with a marketing and fund-raising coach, and then they get back together with their peers at the end of the month in a webinar that we call a share fest, where they share how they’ve experimented and tested and started to implement these personas in their storytelling and their campaigns and it’s been ah, overwhelmingly successful so far, the chapters love the program and have been extremely engaged in it and they’ll be spending literally nine months, five to ten hours per month. Just focused on this for the next year. Yeah. All right, so so there really weren’t people who were seriously objecting because they were brought along in the process and it was it’s a working product is the working process. I mean, even in this program, you know, there’s there’s, people, there’s, you know, resistance to specific things all the time. So it’s ah it’s working through it it’s saying, hey, we never did it that way or hey, look, we have events we’ve been doing our schedule a certain way, and we feel really full, like you want us to do these other things, you know? So that’s it it’s not a straight lying. So the program is great. And it’s moving the needle, but it’s turning a big ship? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Where we want to leave this? We have just like, another minute or so left. What? What happened? We set about it that that we should yeah. I mean, i would just say, ah, you know, every day if you work in marketing or fund-raising the non-profit you’re going to get an email from a vendor with a white paper about being donor-centric you’re going to go to a conference and see all the sessions air about that? But if that’s been going on for ten years, why have things not changed? And, you know, one of my former colleagues used to call it the mission megaphone. All we’re good at doing is sort of shouting our mission, but nobody’s listening, nobody cares what your mission is, that they care about what impact they can have on your mission. And until the sector really embraces this idea, e-giving will continue. Tio tio, grow at a at the small rate that it that it is. And so, you know, i would really challenge all of my colleagues to think seriously about this and start finding ways to implement in their organizations. Okay, outstanding. Thank you. Deep thinking civilization, right. They are michael hoffman, ceo of c three communications and jonno smith, director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america. Gentlemen. Thank you again. Thank you. All right. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us. That was interesting. I got i got a little confused. I feel like i wasn’t totally paying attention to what michael was telling me. So i apologize for that, michael his first time going through it. Sorry about that. Next week, jean takagi returns he’s, our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. You know, jean takagi, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com, a creative, producers clad meyerhoff sam leave uses the line producer. I’m still working on hyre, not am and fm outreach director. Social media is done by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Offgrid me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and i agree. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into vou care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show, grow your sustainers revenue you want more sustainers we’ve got the formula multi-channel up, sell benchmark avoid attrition. The panel is alison weston and chrissy hyre from chapman, cubine adams and husi and sabra lugthart with the trust for public land, this was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and protect your donor’s data. You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want to fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from sixteen ntc are tracy lorts and joshua alan, both with greater e-giving tony, take two seventeen and tc responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com here’s, our first panel on growing your sustainers revenue from the sixteen ntc, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california. My guests now our chrissy hyre alison weston and several lugthart chrissy is see you’re strategist at chapman, kyu buy-in, adams and pronounce all those hyre directly did even cubine you did? Yeah, i should have asked you before, but we’re rolling now. Alison weston is, uh, also with chapman, cubine adams and yep. Okay, what do you do there, though? Does have a title for you. I’m a digital account executive. Okay. Excellent. And say piela oneaccord is associate director of annual giving at the trust for public land. It was a very simple one. Thank you. We love everything documented here correctly. Thank you. Before we start with shot out swag arse crack item for this interview is from cornershop, cornershop, creative it’s ah it’s vegetables. We’ve got sure that’s an eggplant got tomato stress balls no pair stress ball also. But all the vegetables items are not stress balls. We have a banana pen. We had a chili pepper osili all from cornershop creative. So thank you very much. This goes into our swag. Pile ilsen would you help me budged? And those items put him up front. There we go. Oh, the implant. Okay, but all this way, swag pile. Thank you very much. Okay, ladies. Let’s, get serious about sustainers now, sabre, you have to depart a little early. So when sabelo leaves it’s not because my questions suck or anything like that because you have to go because we’re running a little behind. So let’s, start with you. Make sure you get. Yeah e-giving for some time. What is the problem that non-profits are not getting things quite right with sustaining don’t? Well, first, i’ll preface that i’m a client of cch that’s, right? I think we’ll give my organization has an example before i started working at the trust republic land way just didn’t have a sustainers program in place there nobody we didn’t have a dedicated staff member. Um, well, you know, sustainers air worth so much in revenue. So, you know, we did all of these things we work towards that teo grow our program and really recruit sustainers so i think, really the bottom line is is over time when you build your sustainers program, it just generates so much revenue for your organization so it’s worth focusing on okay, we’re we’re for some reason we’re not what we what we alison, what do we not quite getting right about building our sustainers base? I think a lot of regulations do get some things right. I wouldn’t marry you. What herself not getting quite right, i think you know, a big factor for continued, most like sustainers growth online is continue testing so there’s a lot of things to do with donation forms and, you know, i think once you find something that works, that doesn’t mean it’s going to continue to work. So i think one thing we talked about in our sessions, they was keep testing online and keep holding it on things in your donation form and making sure that, you know, you’re continuing to grow and try new things, okay, chrissy, if you want to add to our overviewing this point, i think, you know, maybe two things that i would add to what these ladies have said that, you know, having organizations make sure that they’re taking a multi channel approach to sustain a recruitment that they’re using all the same channels. That there, soliciting one time, gibson for sustainers recruitment and then really evaluating on the back end. Making sure that once they go to all of the trouble of making sure that folks have become monthly donors, that they’re staying monthly donors. And they’re staying engaged in the organization. Why do you think some organizations aren’t taking st multi-channel approach for sustainers that they are for other types of dahna with what’s happening disconnect? Well, i think that, you know, i think that people get a little bit overwhelmed sometimes by, you know, the number of thing are the kind of logistical set up that it takes to start a sustainers program, and so it seems, i think sometimes like, oh, the easy way to do this would be just to do it online let’s, just sell this through email let’s just do a light box, let’s just do it digital ads, you know? And that seems like kind of an easier kind of entry point into sustainers e-giving whereas you know something like telemarketing, for example, which is what i really focus on with my clients can feel a little bit scarier, a little bit more, a little bit bigger, maybe a little bit tougher to bite off, okay, yeah, i think also for a lot of non-profits data is just a challenge, even just getting everything set up in the back, and i know sabra, you had a lot of leg work to do before you got started so i would say, yeah, just getting your house in order before you can even get started and keeping it in order and keeping your data clean. It’s a big challenge, especially with this scene. E-giving okay, all right, so let’s, start with our multi-channel approach to sustain. E-giving now, of course, we’re talking about monthly monthly. Sustainers is that right? Is that we’re all so everyone’s on the same page, okay, monthly sustainers huh? Our multi-channel approach are we trying to convert existing donors to sustaining or we try to require new donors? Sustainers or both, you can do it all, you can have it all. So, you know, i think that’s sort of the lowest hanging fruit is converting the people who are already connected to your organisation as donors and two monthly givers. I think that a lot of organizations also find tremendous success with kind of warm prospects, online activists and that kind of audience and then certainly alison and sabelo could speak to this, but one of the things we find works really well, digitally is using sustainers e-giving is an acquisition tool. Yeah, so i mean, i think there’s, the biggest factor we’ve seen in converting to see here, has been doing a recent cso like christie said, making sure that you’re getting people that sustaining ask after they’ve made a one time gift anything there’s a lot of ways to do that online, trust me publicly, and they do, you know, a few different things. One of them is a rolling email out to you one time donors, ten days post donations so that’s a good way of you know, reaching out to people when they’re current. In recent donors, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna oppcoll okay, let’s, let’s, drill down. But what does that email saying? Thanks them for their gift? Sabelo what does it say? Yes, so the again the emails sent out ten days after the after donor-centric thank you, basically, thank you very much for your recent gift that builds a case for support of why sustaining gifts are so important and it’s all wrapped around the mission of our organization at the end, it says, would you please consider becoming a monthly donor and that’s about what’s in the mail and a link to click to, of course, yes, all of the links to other clip now, when they get there, do they also get a written acknowledgement for their one time give if in our organization, if they give online, they get an automated and they get an automated email and sustainers get a different kind of automated email. So okay, we’re not going out there, and i’m still the one time donor. If they make an online gift to get a in ordinated email on our ana made it basically, thank you eat tax receipt online and then if they don’t, it makes a gift off line they get, you know, they get mail ok in that in that offline, direct mail are they also invited to become sustainers in direct mail? Yeah, so we do dio way doo doo like a b r e slip and direct mail asking has a sustainers ask, and we do do some segmentation and email like we recently sent out a tax receipt that asked people to become, you know, if they had recently given a one time gift, asked them to become a sustainers consider becoming a sustainers and i think that that’s actually really speaks to kind of some of the multi-channel approach that we’re talking about, which yet, you know, it’s, not even just which channels you’re inviting people to become a sustainers through, but branding the program across everything that you send a donor so thinking them with that, you know, and making that sustainers asking, just kind of keeping that in the forefront of their mind as they go through. Sort of their donor life cycle. Okay. Uh r r one time donors asked again before their other once on gift if they hyre turn down the first sustainers nasco they then asked, like i said before there before their other annual gift. Yeah, good question we solicit our month. Well, we are monthly donors on a limited mail solicitation track, so we only send the mailings three times a year. Um and yeah, so we will when it that time is appropriate. The year and campaign. We will ask them to make a one time contribution or we’ll ask them to upgrade their gifts. So we do. Sorry, i’m kate reverting back to monthly donor is not one time your gifts. Sorry, my question was, how often do you ask one time donors to become sustainers you ask them the first time after ten days after their first there one time gift, how often after that? Before their next one time. We don’t have a player friend. Yeah, we don’t have a plan for that right now. Okay? Alison and christine, do you think that is advisable? Or should you just continue to wait until they made their other? Their next one time? Well, one of the things that we find to be really successful is again, kind of, you know, you’re asking the multiple times, but maybe you’re not asking them in the same way, so you’re, you know, you’re thanking them for their gift and there’s this kind of soft asked for them to become a sustainers then you send them an email and explain the program to them and ask them to become a sustainers that way, then you call them and ask them to become a sustainers and then you follow up from that and say, thanks so much for listening. Is this something you would consider so it’s? Not it’s, kind of a cohesive strategy that asked them multiple times, but it’s not necessarily like these kind of random, you know, isolated asks it’s, sort of an overarching okay, okay, that make sense. Yeah, it sure does. And allison, to your point about the importance of data earlier now, obviously way. Have to have good data for all these channels. Christy just described we need a phone number. I need their e mail. We need accurate mailing address, right? The importance of good data. Before we could do anything. Yeah, no, that’s that’s. Definitely right. Okay, way also need to know piggybacking on that how they want to be communicated with. So suppose somebody doesn’t want to receive phone calls. Yeah, i mean that that definitely has to be taken into account. You don’t make the donor injury. You want to communicate with them in the channel that they prefer to be communicated with thin. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who donates online is only ever going to donate online that’s. Why i keep talking about the multi-channel approach. So in fact, forty five percent of the stayner’s that we see recruited into programs are actually recruited as a sustainers by a different channel in the first channel, they gave a gift to the organization, and so we brought them in through mail. But then they became a sustainers through the phone or online, or they came in on line. And then we made the ms sustainers half convert. They’re giving channel. Exactly. Okay, use the right language that you did. It was very krauz. All right, so we still have a good amount of time together. Sabelo before you have to. Go now. Yeah. Okay. She was taken by your sorry have really thank you. Nothing duitz conversation. Okay, thank you for saying that. Even if not sabelo breaks down. So it was like that. All right, thank you. Say thanks for joining us. Okay, now we’re now we’re just left with the consultant. So now we’re in a big, big loss. I did play e-giving fund-raising. Well, it was not it was not serious. Where should we take this next? Right. We talked about how i’m gonna convert at a game. What else have we, uh, not talk about that? We should in this hole multi-channel topic. Campaign ideas. You have some campaign ideas? Yeah. I mean, i could talk a little bit out some different things that we’ve seen we’re calling, why don’t you? Okay, i hold out on non-profit radio. Sure. So i think one of the things we’ve seen work really well with a lot of clients in a lot of different areas has been sustainers up so light box. So that means basically, on your one time get form, somebody makes the onetime gift and before their gift actually process is a light box pops up. And says, hey, things for your let’s define like box everybody doesn’t know whether it’s opaque shoretz i’m not okay. You know, when you go on a site and kind of the site gray’s out and then something pops up to the forefront that’s basically what? George in jail on non-profit radio yeah, try to help you out of it. Sorry, so you can still see through? You can still see through it. So pictures yeah, so picture this you’ve made, you’ve made a gift, then you know you’re you hit process, and then the screen kind of gray’s out in a box pops up and it says, you know, has a nice image and it says, you know, thanks for your gifts before we process your one time gift, would you like to turn this into a monthly gift and you can click no or you can click x and x out of it, and you’re one time gift will still process. But if you could yes, then it will convert to you become a sustainers so you’re catching people right at the moment when they’re making a gift and you just get people to convert and we’ve seen that works really well for bringing a new sustainers, but also doesn’t depress one time. Revenue does not. Okay, okay, what do we know about what? What amounts to ask them to? Would you like to make this gift to sustaining you? Well know, the mountains is different. So in the back end of the light box itself, there’s kind of an ask string tree, so basically gives a range. So if you make a gift between, say, five and fifteen dollars, and you ask for a five dollars monthly gift or, you know, if you kind of move up and you make a thirty two fifty dollars, gift your ass for a little bit hyre maybe, you know, fifteen or twelve dollars monthly gift so it’s kind of tiered. So you’re making sure that you’re asking for the right amount from people what we call that strategy. That’s the sustainer, upsell, lightbox okay, sustainers yeah, i terminology, yeah, as long as you define it joining way don’t like talking about it. Criminology sustainers upset like box, of course, who doesn’t know what that is like? Everybody who listens to cop radio does now that you know, you just treyz down. So i don’t think so. Sustainers upsell white-collar christine woman a woman who sat in your seat before this interview was so that was misty magog a chrissy hyre christy, what other campaign strategy can you share? Well, campaign strategies? Um, you know, i think that as alison alluded to one of the most important things that we see for organizations to remember, no matter what channel they’re trying to recruit, sustainers through is really the recency of the gift. So i think that a lot of times organizations have a little bit of a fear that if they asked too close lead to this is to the person’s original gift that it’s going to seem ungrateful to be like. Well, now, could you do ten dollars a month? Like ten days? Seems to be okay. Ten days a spine. In fact, the most successful phone programs we do call people within thirty days, which that’s really close? I mean, they just gave a gift. But you really want their commitment and their passion for the organization to be top of mind. And any time in the thirty days, not the next day. Not the next day. No, typically. The window starts kind of two weeks after their gift for two weeks to thirty days, you’re safe in asking for sustainers gift after someone made a one time yep, absolutely and of course, you know you want you want to thank them, you want to appreciate them for the amazing donorsearch es are but that’s, you know, that’s totally acceptable. And i think the other thing that we talked a lot about today and that we could go into a little bit more now is sort of what to do with sustainers once you bring them on, and so i think that you know, sustainers support is great because it’s the stable monthly revenue, but it’s not a set it and forget it kind of strategy and so there’s a lot of work that has to be done once you actually bring these folks to the table to become monthly donors, to make sure that they stay engaged and passionate and interested and that they continue to give and you don’t lose them because their credit card expired or they just sort of became disa passion with your organization. Okay, very important too. Yes, yes, we don’t, we don’t. Want to lose? You don’t want to lose our donors. What do we know about out? After someone becomes a sustainers do they then keep up their their annual giving, too? So this is something that a lot of organizations kind of go back and forth with. Do you continue to ask sustainers for one time gifts? Do you try to just upgrade their sustainers gift, like what is the perfect mix of howto results in them? And so one of the things that we found is that, you know, thes air your most committed, passionate donors, and so it is completely acceptable to ask them for a one time gift. A lot of folks use a strategy called the thirteenth gift, where in december they’ll ask sustainers to give sort of the thirteenth gift of the year. If you have, like, a key matching gift campaign or something really urgent happening within the organization sustainers air great group of people to reach out to on dh, then organizations have seen success upgrading sustainers is close to their original sustaining gift is three months after they give it. So you know, there’s there’s really no hard and fast rule it’s kind of about testing and finding what works best for the organization. Okay, even okay, things. That that sound unusual to me, even just within three months of their first sustainers gift it’s okay, in some cases to ask the upgrade that absolutely so we worked with a really large non-profit that has an extraordinarily large sustainers program and what they they tested six months versus three months in terms of a sustainers upgrade and found no difference. At three months that is many people upgraded the donor’s weren’t displeased to be getting called again so quickly that folks felt really engaged and excited. They kind of under you just always have to explain what their support is doing. Why is that additional three dollars, a month so important? Allison, could you help us with went to be thanking our sustaining donors? I think is pretty well recognized don’t think them every month, but do we thank them every year? What’s appropriate? Yeah, i think i think they definitely need to think them, but not overthink them, but i think something else that you can do more often is kind of keep those engagement touches going, so send engaging emails that aren’t just asking people for money, sending them something that’s going to keep them tied. To the mission of the organization and kind of keep the organization top of mind without asking them for money every single time they’re opening an e mail from you. Eso whether that’s a quiz about your organization reading article, you know something, something fun like that to keep them engaged, it informed, i think, is really important and sustainers going, of course, be lumpkins that along with everyone else on your email list on your contact list, but i think you know it’s nice at the end of the year at the beginning of the year to send out a nice impact email or an impact, you know, whatever you’re doing to show, um, you know how much their support meant to you over the year and all the stuff that you were able to do because of all the, you know, consistent support that sustainers gave you okay? So generally recognized that end of the year is is the best time or if there’s, another key bowman in your organization? I don’t think it’s a problem to thank donors, but i think you can do really consistent engagement emails, teo, to keep folks, you know, tied to your organization okay, way too little a budgeting conversation. Okay. Dahna what? What are expense items that we need to factor into creating a sustaining sustainers? Provoc well, i think that in some regards and allison definitely jump in. I think that when you think about sustainers recruitment, you almost have to think about it in the same way you think about acquisition, and so, you know, you’re going to invest in acquisition, but it’s a long term kind of long game strategy and sustainers recruitment is the same way, so you know that obviously one of the biggest cost is making sure you have the back and systems to process the spokes monthly, that you’re not gonna lose track of that. And, you know, all of that is part of the organizational budget i would assume and then additionally, you know, making sure that you are kind of realizing that if you’re starting a program from scratch, this is like the long game, this isn’t something that’s going to pay off in three months. This is something that you’re looking at in some cases, if you really want to build a large program, the big net is going to happen. After a year, maybe two years, maybe three years, depending on how big you want to go. Okay, so you gotta be in it for a longer term, right? Any other budget type factors? Allison, you want to jump in? No, i think you pretty much well covered it, but i think, you know, if you’re sending out e mails, you obviously have to have a sierra. So i think a lot of the stuff you know, most organizations already have but it’s a matter of using it for recruiting sustainers but definitely i think the biggest hurdle for a latto organizations is getting that peanut processing set up. Okay, got a meat processing that you trust? Are there payment processors that you like? You want to give a shout out to particularly well. Okay, what about strength? Yeah. So, you know, i think that this isn’t so much about the actual monthly processing, but, you know, there’s there are a lot of great tools out there right now, like stripe or a man tive that help recapture credit card information before it lapses, which really helps organizations that are trying to build sustainers program stem. That sustainers attrition on. Dit could be a really huge factor and turning around sustainers avenue. Okay, now, what was the second advantage vantive used to be? Lytle now, it’s canton. Okay, so we know that when credit cards laps, we’re likely to lose sustainers donors so just kind of some quick stats i can share with you, so i work with pretty large sized political action committee, and they’re very committed growing their sustainers program, they spend a lot of money investing in this new sustainers growth and so this year or in twenty fifteen, rather we saw this pattern where we were exceeding our budget projections for new sustainers revenue every single month and our sustainers number was decreasing every single month, so just, like, made no sense, right defied logic, so we dug in to see, you know, what’s going on? Why are all these people falling off the file? Because the problems really attrition and of those folks who are falling off, eighty percent of them were falling off because of bad credit card numbers. So this was sort of during that time where we all got this new chip cards or their expiration dates were expiring, theyjust were getting new cards and we weren’t able to contact them quickly enough to get that new credit card back on file. So with this process all of a sudden, you know, we implement this in december, and we go from losing thousands of dollars every month to seeing, like, twenty three percent growth since december through february. Okay, so what are we doing in advance of the credit card lapse? So a little bit technical and that’s? Not really my bailiwick, i will tell you, but so basically, what thes companies do is they contract with banks so that they have a relationship with the bank to update your credit card before it ever even expires. So, for example, if you have a netflix account, you probably notice that your credit card never actually expires. No matter what. You know how many cards your bank is sending you in the mail and that’s because they’re contracting with them directly to get that information so that you, the consumer, don’t have to go in and update all of that. Oh, i see. Ok, so it’s all happening transparent to you. It happens automatically, right? You never have to decide. I’ve given enough. To this organization, exactly it’s a customer service convenience that actually saves organizations a lot of money. Yes, it’s also non-profit exactly. All right. All right. We still have a couple of minutes left. Zoho some benchmark benchmark’s is for sustainers growth. Allison, help us with that. Yeah. I mean, i think it depends where different organizations are in their sustaining journey about growing their program. So i think, you know, when folks are thinking about starting or growing at sustainers program, you have to kind of set your own benchmarks that i can throw it a couple stats. I think you know, some things to consider. You know, overall good, healthy benchmark would be about having ten percent of your revenue comes from sustaining, giving. So, you know, that varies from organization organization, but i think that’s kind of ah, national benchmark it like a good back of the napkin calculation on that. I also think some other things to consider are just, you know, benchmarking and kind of setting some goals for how much revenue goals you want to have come from a scene e-giving and also thinking through, you know, looking at how much you want to spend to acquire these donors and then what’s the return on investment. How long are these sustainers staying on the file? Are they lapsing off? Is there a certain channel that’s? Not really working very well. Maybe honing in on, you know, tweaking your strategy a little bit. So i think there’s different things and it’s it’s going to be different for every organization you know, not everyone is the same place in there seeing e-giving program. But those air something’s toe consider. Okay. Okay, christy, i want to leave us with i think that ultimately what i would say is that while building a sustainers program is an investment, it ultimately is so worth it. It is probably the number one thing that organizations khun due to help grow their files. Folks who become a credit card sustainers will stay on your vile for thirty seven months or longer. They’re your best prospects for plan giving. They’re your best prospects for mid level upgrading. And they are ultimately kind of the core of your fund-raising once you develop that audience is ideal, concise, beautiful. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Ok, they are christy hyre and she’s, a senior strategist. At chapman cubine adams and she was right. Okay on. Alison is also there doing marcus ellis, a digital account exec. You can’t exactly fucking watch, ladies. Thank you. Martignetti. Non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference san jose, california. Thank you so much for being with us. Protect your donor’s data is coming up first. Pursuant. Have you checked out their white paper overcoming the major donor dilemma? It’ll help you. The research is free. It’s valuable it is. I can make it any simpler. This stuff is helpful. This one, the overcoming the major dahna dilemma covers identification, engagement and cultivation of new major donors. So you’re finding them, you’re getting them active and then you’re cultivating for the solicitation. Overcoming the major donor dilemma it’s at pursuing dot com you click resource is and then content papers. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out their latest video, it’s from a night that raised money for help for children raised over one hundred ten thousand dollars, the organisation needed help. It turned to re be spelling. You can see it all documented. They’re documentarians it’s all there on the video at we b e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two, the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference so we got two interviews today from twenty sixteen. I urge you, i can’t be seat you because that belongs elsewhere, but i urge you, i implore you to check out the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference it’s march twenty third, twenty fourth, twenty fifth in washington d c there’s always there’s like one hundred or more there’s more than one hundred smart speakers, smart seminar leaders they’re all talking about how to use technology smarter, more efficiently, brighter all just better to help you do your work and is not only for technically oriented people mean, i go and i interviewed people and i can hold my own in the conversation so you can too on you don’t even have to converse with them. I mean, if you don’t talk to somebody and then just don’t talk, just listen but it’s not on ly for geeks, which is no longer a pejorative now than it was when i was growing up. But now it’s ah, people boast about being geeks but it’s not only for them, so if you’re using technology and ah, you’re odds are you’re listening on a smartphone, so guess what xero embedded in your life using it to do your work accomplish your mission. Then i would check out twenty seventeen and tc get latto all the info at and ten and tn dot or ge and that is tony steak too. Here’s, our second panel on protecting your donor’s data. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is also part of ntc conversations. We are at the san jose convention center kicking off our day to coverage. My guests are tracy lorts and joshua. Alan tracy is community marketing manager for greater e-giving on dh joshua is not listed in the program. How come? Last minute addition in addition, okay, joshua, tell us your title and your organization. So students engineer with greater e-giving what kind of engineer? Solutions solutions engineer with greater e-giving okay, they’re seminar topic is super boring. Crazy important p c i and protecting protecting your donor’s data. What? Thank you, joshua. Welcome. Thank you. All right, we have to acquaint listeners with what? P c i is i’m going to assume that a lot of people don’t know a post. We have jargon jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, so we want to start off with you in prison in george in jail. That was tracy, since you’re most concerned about prison justin, maybe you’ve done time, so i don’t know, but you’re not not it’s. Not about jargon. Jail. All right, tracy, what is p c i? So p c i is an acronym that stands for the payment card industry. So it’s, a set of standards that’s put forth by all major card brains around the world to ensure a set of security standards are implemented by everyone involved in the card processing services. Okay, security standards, if you’re involving card processing, is it also dependent on what kind of data you save and whether you save data? Yeah, s o p c i has a set of data security standards called tell them the twelve pc ideas s going to get more darken. And thats the data security standard. Okay, so it’s a set of twelve requirements that are kind of a minimum standard for anyone involved in card processing that you have to meet those standards in order to be compliant with pcs. Okay, joshua, you’re doing this session so safe to assume that a lot of non-profits i don’t know what pc is my assumption, correct? They may not know what it is or they know what it is, and i’m not sure how to start so that that’s what our purpose far session is to is to get people acquainted with with what they what they should start learning to know and then and protect themselves and their donors. Data. Okay, okay, what is it? What is the best way to get started with learning pc? I mean, is it just a matter of twelve gss is or is there a better way to make entry into this for people aren’t familiar? Yeah, you need to know more if they are a little familiar. Yeah. There’s a four different levels of pc i compliance and it’s, based off of the number of transactions that you’re doing on a yearly basis. S oh, that would be the number of people that would be impacted if your organization were to have a breach so larger businesses processing, you know, billions of transactions annually have more stringent requirements than someone on ly processing in the thousand thousand transactions per year range. I’m so most, you know, most large large companies air having to do really, really strict requirements for p s p c i but if you’re a smaller processor, you really just have to complete what’s called the self assessment questionnaire that’s put forth by the p c i council and you have to do it on an annual basis and it’s basically as self verification that you are complying with all the requirements of pcs. Okay, let’s, just take one step back. Joshua if people maybe you’re in a smaller organization on, they don’t really want to take this on which we’re going to be talking about for the next twenty minutes. They could just accept gifts by check. Yeah, that’s always a possibility. Absolutely they could. But as we’re as we’re going into the digital age it’s very important that organizations open themselves up to the other fund-raising streams, including credit card payments and okay, i just want to put it out there. Yeah, just briefly, you could. This really scares you. And it was really small shop. You could just not accept credit card donation, right? But you’re missing out on the town. Of donations. Okay, this is it. It’s. Really? Not a big scary idea. You know that twelve requirements are really simple. Concepts like having a firewall in place. That’s one of the twelve. So they’re things that should be a part of your security process and your security policies is a non-profit to begin with. So they’re things that you should already be doing. It’s really? Just about ensuring that all of the checks and balances are in place. Ok. Ok. What are what are the four different categories? There’s twelve? No, twelve other. There are four categories based on the tear, your revenue, your number of processes for per year. Yes. Okay. You just lay out what? Those forty years. You could just tears called him. Tier one tier don’t know the terminology. I gotta be on the terminology. Okay? Right here. One through four. There’s. Some specific data. So i think she’s. Yeah. So okay, a tier one eye merchants going to be processing over six million transactions annually. That’s, that’s. A lot of, um a tier two. Going to be processing one million to six million. Tier three is twenty thousand to a million and then tear. Forest. Twenty thousand or less. Okay, so we would expect most to be three or four correct, vast majority for yes, okay, but we’re looking in the three and forty years, yes, level for most for most. Non-profits. Okay, all right, we’re just going to go through the, uh, that twelve. Yeah, we can ok. Have all these twelve applied to the tiers three and four, they d’oh okay, no matter what, okay, okay. It’s, just that simple. Should we just took him off? We can. Twelve. Yeah, okay, is there anything else we need to any other ground work we need to set for people who don’t know this stuff like me and anything else i should know before we go through the twelve? Well, i think it may be important that even though you do these twelve steps, it does not automatically prevent you from being breeched or unable to continue with these steps, right? But this is the industry standard is the industry standard. So even if you are breached, you can at least say we’re meeting the industry standards. But we still got, you know, we still got our data stolen or reached, right? It’s it’s not the it’s, not the end. All prevention from right, there’s. Almost nothing. I mean, if you have a bad guy in your or bad woman in your office nothing’s going to prevent that or right out of your office or out of it, so okay, all right, well, we can’t prevent one hundred per cent. We could be industry compliant, and we’ll get into some trouble. If we’re not industry complaint, maybe we should just have a little a little more motivation. What happens if you decide? You don’t want to do the pc adhere to the pc high standards? Are there civil or criminal? Sametz people there can be yes, definitely if you if you have a breach and you’re not complain with p c i or even if you are and you still have a breech, there are some potential ramifications. There’s actually quite a if you um most notably there’s some fees associate it that that your non-profit can receive on and there could be legal action taken against you. Obviously, if there was something that came up, that was ah, a major issue for your organization. So you’re better off. Obviously, if you’re our complaint can’t find them, tracy can’t okay. Joshua said, fees it’s a lot of information. All right, give us an idea of a penalty regularly. Regulatory notification requirements that just be like letting people know that you had a data breach, which is not good. You’re bad organization. Weren’t you weren’t complaining? Definitely. Loss of reputation, loss of donors, potential financial liabilities like fees and fines. And in some situations, litigation could be taken against you. Okay. Okay. And and all those situations, you’re in a much better position if your pc i compliant. Definitely. Okay, alright. Still more motivation. All right, let’s, start with our, uh we got the twelve. These are the twelve gss requirements. Yes, right. And what is the ss again? Data security standard. That a security standard requirements? Yes. Okay, s the number one isn’t install and maintain a fire wall pretty commonly done across most organizations. But obviously important to keep in mind that it’s up to date and that you’re continually checking on its security and making sure that it’s working accurately. Um yes, but you don’t have a three year old firewall. No, no. That’s. Not gonna do you any good. Okay. Ah, number twos do not use vendor supply defaults for system passwords. Okay, let’s, dive into this a little more now. Passwords. Don’t you? What you want to amplify what we should be doing with our passwords. Don’t use password. Wei had panel yesterday. Password? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, six and p word or so there was another one. Password with a zero for the o that’s. Really common. We actually cover the top twenty five most commonly used passwords in the last year in our presentation. Right? We’ll roll a few off these. They’re all bad people do not use the first one to say this is a list of what not to do with your password. Not what to do? Yes, exactly. Please don’t use these this’s good information for your daily life as well. S o so some of the top passwords are one, two, three. Four five six password one two three four five six seven eight corti more number strings football baseball welcome let me in, master monkey princess, my two favorite that made the list this year were as solo and star wars solo and star wars. Yes, alright, so they’re related. All right, bad passwords don’t use these, don’t you? You’re opening yourself up means the top twenty five passwords in the country. You’ve got to have something a lot more secure than one of the top twenty five, and you have to bet that that hackers that are out there no thes passwords are commonly is and all the other, you know, simple variations like using numbers to substitute for letters in the top things, you know, just don’t do it for god’s sake, how much plainer can we make it? And if you have passwords protecting your donor’s data, don’t use it across all of your your different systems that use that your your organization that is very important as well you’re saying have different passwords for the different software system? Absolutely all right, so don’t use the user default. I mean, don’t use a default password. What else was buried in that one, tracy there’s, little more. I thought, um, that was it. Don’t use vendor supplies, defaults, orb system, password. Now you’re decent password. Joshua wanted to read the next one protect card stored cardholder data. So this’s big now, yeah, that starts going into your files and being sure that the information that you do collect is relevant and important, too, maintaining accurate files, handup, but keeping them in a locked, stored area where they tried to help me out here. What was the research on this one? You want to cut back your risk of someone getting access to cardholder dahna? Obviously on dso, you wanna make sure that if you were using digital systems that use encryption, truncation are masking of card numbers, which means masking would be if you are, if you have a set of credit card numbers that your entire string except for, say, the last four digits, which is the most commonly used, wait up tio mask a card number, all of those air exes except for the last four Numbers so that would be 1 way to protect to the data that you’re storing. Let me ask a threshold question similar to my, you know, accepting check questions. What have you do? Credit card processing? What? You’re not storing credit card numbers, you’re still going to be able to benefit from no credit card transactions, right? But just don’t they have to store the numbers with the advantage there you don’t. So i would say that most on profits or using some sort of external service to actually process card data they, of course, as the merchant in that situation are having they do have access to card numbers for a short period of time when they’re transitioning it from there, their hands into their processors hands isn’t microseconds it’s, it’s seconds, but you never know what could happen, and you also never know, especially if it’s in a digital situation who could be watching what you’re doing that also includes the last four digits of a number or the expiration date as well. That all pertains that cardholder data. So even if you’re only storing the last four digits, yeah, you have to do this. We’re going to make sure it’s secure, okay, so in storing all sixteen and storing all only for no difference, you have to do all these things. All right, it’s. All right, so all right, so back to my simple minded question, maybe. Do you do you need to start, right? So i’m asking, do you need to store it? You’re saying you do have it in your possession for a short time, the microseconds or whatever that it goes to the processor that’s still considered you storing it right? And how did you get that data? To begin with that’s? The other questions to come encrypted. It has to come in in some fashion. So i mean, could it be a donation envelope that had that information written down on it? What do you do with it after you’ve processed it donation envelope? Can you shred it? What if you just shred it? That would be a great way to get rid of it, okay? Or burn it burning well, about having that’s always dramatic, but it actually works. We’ve talked about having burned piles in the office. You have a pc. I burn party. You could end of every week. Yeah, yeah, but you just want to make sure that it is completely, you know, it’s completely out of your hands, you’re no longer have access to it anymore, especially when it includes all of that. Really important cardholder data. Okay? And we’re talking about address name? Just a number. Correct. Not just the card number, but they’re mailing address their zip code. That’s the kind of stuff you do need to save because you wanted to mailings. Correct? Yeah. And and most of the time, you know, that kind of information is stored on under management system and those those systems are secure, so you obviously have to have access to them using a log in and password on dh. That information generally is going to be going to be secure as long as you’re using a really good password. Obviously, yes, way covered, that one. Don’t go back now way, have twelve to cover. I’m sure we’re gonna get it, but they all were with each other. That’s, your sister, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll Joshua read another 1 please. The next one encrypt transmission of cardholder data across your open public networks. So if you are a larger non-profit working, you know, with the main central office, you want to make sure that any of the cardholder data that you are sending is encrypted, you know, meaning you’re using. No, sorry. What of encryption protocols are in place? Couldn’t find the words are okay. All right, so you need to know. You need yes. You need some kind of expertise to know that you’re encryption. Protocol is correct. Yep. Okay. And that includes obviously working with your particular vendor that’s processing your cards for you that the system that they’re using is goingto also encrypt the data for you. Okay, that was a two way street that they’re encrypting also. All right, what else we got? Joshua let’s. Go ahead. You would protect all systems and gets malware and regularly update antivirus software program. So that mcafee system that it’s always bugging you in your in your bottom, right hand corner to update. You want to make sure that you’re continually keeping up to date with those. Oh, and updating to the latest software, especially with your your your donor management system software as well. So any bugs could be worked out routinely and kept up to date on this. Okay, okay, that was that was malware was an anti virus that is now wearing it tomorrow. You want to make sure they’re europe today and that that that system wide, teo. Obviously, a lot of you know, large organizations have hundreds of computers that are using that network. So you have to make sure that every single device that’s accessing your network is secure and updated on a regular basis. Okay. Okay, tracy want teo, don’t you give us a couple all right, number six, develop and maintain secure systems and applications. S o that’s just basically saying, you know, there are tons of vulnerabilities out there to your security system, and the landscape is constantly changing, so you need to make sure they hear up to date with, you know, vendor provided security patch is kind of like what josh was mentioning with your dahna management system that you’re keeping it up today if there’s any updates that come out with that on dh, that all systems have software patches and are just, you know, you’re managing and maintaining them on an annual basis. Okay, this sounds like another one. That is a pretty common sense. You should be doing this anyway. Yeah, irrespective of your this storage or not, of your credit of credit card data. In-kind yeah, big cognizant of who has access to that. Data in your in your office as well. Okay. Okay. Area right. And what machines it’s on? Yes. All right. All right. S o the number seven is restrict access to cardinal data by business. Need to know s o that just basically means that the people within your organization that have access to cardholder data is limited. And then it’s on ly the people that really need to know what that data is. Eso you just, you know, you want to have someone who’s, the authorized person to take care of of those transactions and that it isn’t open to just anyone, you know, accessing that information. And you really should just generally have a deny all setting for things like processing cards, denial, setting. What does that mean? It just means that that for the baseline, no one has access to it. But that there is, you know, one or there are one or two people that do so the default thie developed is no one touches him. And then we work up from there. Correct? Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this should be in the hands of you’re donor-centric gift processing department. Wherever that is, someone on the development team, right? But, you know, like the director of development and the vice president for institutional advancement, do they need to know credit card numbers? Not necessarily not know. Yeah, probono depending on the size of your organization. That’s true, that could be the gift processors. Yeah, director development could be the gift processor. It’s alright, but yet fair. Okay, let’s. Give joshua shot hyre let’s. See, i identify and authenticate access to system components. So it’s really important. Tio this hyre goes back in and ties in some of the other, the last two. You wantto uniquely hold everybody accountable for their actions. So the people who do have access, who are processing the cards, you have a system set in place where they have the checks and balances needed to hyre go through the crucial data and systems that can be traced back to them. So a lot of the love, the systems that that are in place, you can you contract who actually process that credit card to access that person’s record because just record in their dinner, we should be able to track treyz back all all transactions and viewings and things like that all right? Yeah. Okay. Is that standard in in aa cms zsystems? Absolutely. Yes. You just have to make sure, obviously, that when you set it up for your organization that you make sure that each person has their own unique logging. So, like, for example, some limes, it’s like admin doc development that’s not really going to be effective and tracking before people could be twelve people. Exactly. Disaster. If it’s more than one. The chicken finger point yet. So all right. You right. You have to have unique log. Yeah. E-giving each person their own unique identification. Okay, report. All right, go ahead. Who’s. Next restrict physical access to cardholder data, which is ah, tracy is a really good example of this. When she used to work for a nonprofit, she is really embarrassing. Way won’t name the non-profit, but she probably could tell the story better, but i attended this organization’s fund-raising ah, year before i started working for them. And they tried to kind of daisy chain a system together to be able teo capture credit card information. A check in it failed them on of that night and their internet dropped and they couldn’t collect card holder information to process card payments for purchases. Made it the event. So they walked around with donation cards and just had people hand right in all of their credit card information on these donations. Pompel pretty common practice, you know, non usual, however, start working for the organization years down the road. I’m going through some old files and what i find all of the donation forms with everyone’s. Credit card information from that event, which was three years previous was laying in an old just laying in an old file disaster. God, numbers, addresses everything. Expiration date, everything. Security codes. Exactly what you don’t want to have happen. So i you know her. I can attest that. You know, this kind of information needs to be out there in the nonprofit world. And organizations really should be considering following the pc. I guidelines. You should be just doing it. Yes. Okay. What a fine. Oh, my god. I got a chill. I don’t think it’s the air conditioning today afternoon, the air conditioning came on. I would say maybe was the air conditioning. But today is it’s not blasting? Yeah, that’s. That’s really is chilling it. Is what did you do? I immediately started all of it. Yes, absolutely. I think they had a burn party, fire bond fire departments to be on call. And what about now? Did you bring it to the attention of of management? They’re absolutely yes, yes, that changed their yes behavior. Yes, definitely. You know, a lot of things. A lot of things have changed since then. It was just, you know, it was an oversight on someone’s part along the way, and it just kind of got for gotten and in the shuffle. And, you know, it was just one of those things that happened, and you just have to it does have to, you know, really you don’t you want to minimize the risks of exposure to that kind of problem within your organization. Let’s, move on. Go ahead, joshua. You want to track and monitor all access to network resource is and that called cardholder data. So if it is, if you if you are storing the physical copies of the last four digits of the number with everything else blacked out or anything you want, teo have that restricted access in a locked filing cabinet with one person having the key and you want to know who has it as well? Okay, excellent locked access, one person, one person. Qi is pretty common sense. Pretty simple, but, uh, they’re easy to spell out and miss one of these. Yeah. Okay. Now what if that person ah, is sick for a day? You know, should narrow. Shouldn’t be some redundancy. Like we have multiple people who consign checks should there be a second key holder so that if a person is out for a day, we need to access that? Yeah. You know, we definitely encourage that you don’t want to give all of the keys to the kingdom toe one person. There shouldn’t be one individual person that’s accountable for all of that. That data and access to that data so definitely should be more than one person that that’s that’s managing. But they’re still has to be controlled, like, maybe have to sign in cracked, you know which, which is an honor system. Okay? Or or maybe now, don’t we use this to, um where this where this data is stored in this physical location, maybe there should be a camera focused on that spot. Just like we have cameras that focused on the desk where the cash gets counted. Right? Ok, so that would be a method of determining who’s been in there. Okay, go ahead. Um, did you just do ten? Ok, alright, eleven regularly test security systems and processes test. Okay, how do we do this? So, obviously you know what? You know when you wanna have a security policy in place, but if you don’t test it to make sure it’s goingto work it’s not going to work s so there could be a potential gap somewhere along the way that you missed on dh the only way they’re going to find out that it was mrs by testing. All right. So what are we testing? We’re pretending there was a brief if you have that camera set up, are you actually actively looking at the camera? Occasionally. Are you testing? Were you testing your checks and balances? Right? Orders the video get get re recorded over every twelve hours. Exactly north. Maybe. You know, maybe seventy two hours is okay. I don’t know how long it may be. Should be a week. I don’t know, but yeah, if it’s too. Short, the video is worthless. What else? What else? I mean, how do you how do you run these tests? What do you what? You’re testing s o i mean, you want to test all of your, you know, excuse me, all of your software components, those need to be tested on a regular basis on dh that i’m that your network is continuing to be secure, that you’re updating and changing passwords to be able to access your network on you know, this is a this is ah, one of the areas of the pc i that’s kind of it it’s definitely the most important because lots of people don’t conduct those scans. I’m but it’s frequently overlook. Okay, how many do we have left on? I was eleven or twelve. Alright, maintain a policy that addresses information security for all personnel. Gotta have a policy, right? Absolutely information. Security name just took off a couple of things and then we got to wrap up. That should be in your policy. Yeah. So you want to make sure that you have ah, usage policy for technology. So if you’re giving access to computers to your users, you want to make sure that, you know, you have things in place to ensure password security. So you want to have restrictions on what passwords can be? How many characters it has to be on let’s. Joshua would give the last word another tickle. Fight him on this number twelve. And this needs to be policy. Yeah. This needs to be incurred grunts with your privacy policy that that that you display with your donors as well like that, they know that you’re being good stewards of their data. Okay? Data as well as biographical and all the other demographic info that you have on them. Absolutely. Okay, we gotta wrap it up there. That’s ah, tracy lords, community marketing manager for greater giving. And joshua alan is an engineer. Solutions lucien’s engineer that’s also a greater e-giving. Okay, tracy. Joshua. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us next week. A new accounting rule that you need to know. Do not roll your eyes. We will make it interesting. I will. I guarantee it. This is going to be with the huge tomb who’s been on. The show before. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enable pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows. Social media is by the excellent susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

Nonprofit Radio for January 27, 2017: Successful Tech Projects & Inauguration Social Networks

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week it’s caused you. They are a cr m platform causevox dot com and at causevox you, they blogged four fund-raising podcasts that can help non-profits of any size now, the other three were something about fund-raising authority and tiny, messy non-profit sparks like that, but for non-profit radio, they’re fourth in the in this block post said they said all encompassing, quote, if there were parts of the other three podcasts pod casts that appealed to you than twenty martignetti is non-profit radio may be perfect, perfect martignetti podcast has gained popularity and for good reason if you have a lot of time to listen, you’re in luck. Non-profit radio has hosted over three hundred episodes today is number three twenty four. By the way, like, thieves have ah, markham of specificity. Three, two, one for today. Touching on industry news, best practices and bright new ideas and quote thank you so much. Industry news. Um, yes. Check. Because last week’s review we have twenty sixteen forecast and the twenty seven. Twenty sixteen review on the twenty seventeen forecast who writes this copy? Look, i wrote twenty sixteen forecast i needed i need an intern so badly that was the news industry news best practices, of course, every guest shares best practices bright new ideas, we have ideas, let’s not get carried away break new, i don’t know, but we got good ideas cause you thank you so very much for including non-profit radio in this podcast roundup, congratulations on being our listeners of the week cause you oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with rubio. Sis, if i saw that you missed today’s show successful tech projects up to seventy percent of technology projects fail how do you manage tech change to avoid the fail smita ve arika column and sandy reinardy have the strategies to prepare, communicate and manage change in your projects. Smita is at heller consulting, and sandy is with the university of wisconsin foundation. We talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and inauguration social networks. Any sample ward returns to reveal what went on behind the scenes to make social networks buzz this month plus will have ah couple of the topics inauguration related she’s our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network on tony steak, too. Empower your volunteers responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here are smita arika column and sandy reinardy from ntcdinosaur sixteen welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california. Of course, in the convention center with me now are smita vatikay column and sandy reinardy, and their session topic is change workshop managing change to ensure a technology project’s success we’re gonna get to that very shortly. First latto highlight are on ten swag item and tc swag item of the of the for the interview you want each each session, this is a smartphone shortbread cookie from ray’s mohr. And then, of course, the obligatory napkin for wiping your hands and and your lips very gingerly, it says yea for those of you don’t have the benefit of the video and this was in our swag pile. Oh, that’s. All right. There it is. Okay, ladies. Um oh, let me give you a proper introduction. Smita is vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy is managing director for gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation. Welcome drinking. Thanks for having my pleasure. Thank you for indulging my swag swag moment. Should i presume, sandy, that you had a ah project. You’re a project manager on a project, a tte university, wisconsin foundation. Sort of. I came. I came in on the tail end rape as we went live doing a full implementation of a serum system website. General ledger, a portal for our campus users. Whole thing. And, uh, i came in about six weeks before we went live and have been working a lot on post project and reflecting on how ah, things maybe could have gone differently. And what’s thinks he did. Well, alright, some introspection. Okay, now. Oh, and, sweetie, you were involved in this project or with the university? Wisconsin or no, i wasn’t. It was not involved in that project, but actually, sandy. And i have worked together at heller for many years previously, and both of us were working with many clients and we would talk about this topic quite a bit, and i’ve kept in touch with sandy, and we would just sort of talk about lessons learned and what she’s experiencing at the university of wisconsin and the things i’m learning from the consulting perspective. So we just love this, you know, exchanging ideas about the topic. Have you done the workshop already? Yes. Okay. Went well, yes. Okay, i think now i read in your description that seventy percent of technology projects fail. What is that? When something fails, meet oyu there’s, our consultant on the panel with something fails? I mean, is that? Does that mean it just doesn’t work? That’s a great question in terms of what failure means, i’m going to take the generic definition of failure being it’s the project’s not meeting timeline, scope or budget and i wantto and any one of those and actually the part that i like to focus on it’s also not meeting employees, adoption or usage, which, really to me, is a key driving, you know, metric for success. So project users hated exactly yes face in thinking you don’t like. Ok, so you have ladies you have strategies for not well helping to minimize the likelihood, i guess i guess you probably can’t prevent it, but minimizing likelihood of project failure is that right? Yes. Ok, where should we start with sandy? Where should we start with this topic? We’re in the convention center and the hallway is noisy. So there’s, no food bins coming by or something you know, but not proper radio perseveres. We don’t care about your mere background noise. Meaningless. You’re very sophisticated audio system here. So you’re here just in the rumbling in the background. Okay, santa grecian rescue. We start with this topic. I think it start with the fact that it’s primarily in terms of change management, it is so people first on this and the because all of our organization’s air made up collectively of a bunch of people who find themselves in different personal positions with relation to change people that are i want to be quick to innovate, and they just you’ve got a lot of energy and they want to always be kind of moving to the next thing, all the way down to people who really would prefer just to more steadily and consistently improve on stuff that they have or and all the way across that kind of arc and organizations than can tend to take on their own profile based on the number of people in the nature of their leaders and things like that when it comes to change and so really understanding where individuals are and how that’s going to affect an impact as you go through a project like this, how you’re going to ensure strong adoption by meeting people where they are, and treating each of those people differently, and utilizing their their position with different aspects of the project because it was a lot in there. Let’s, let’s start unpacked. That’s fine overviews stage let’s. Try to unpack that bit when we’re in the women in the planning stage of ah of a project i’m guessing it’s important who’s in the who’s in the process from the beginning. Okay, metoo my my right. Absolutely. Okay, i think that way you should be in there. Yeah, one of things i like to think about a project and is to think about it, it’s like a campaign, you know, a sandy said, i project is it’s there’s a technology and there’s the people side of it, and if we just concentrate on the technology side of it, the people get left behind. And if you look at change, management is really about it’s the it’s, the methodology it’s the tools and processes to recognize there’s change in a technology project let’s, be proactive and manage it. And so, like you said in the planning part of the project, ideally you’re getting a head start in recognizing that this is what it is understanding who your stakeholders are in a sandy said, those stakeholders range from leadership, those seemed like the obvious stakeholders, and we’ll be business process users. But there’s, you have to really think holistically about your organization and think thoroughly about who is impacted by this change. And in the early start of it, i think it’s good to get buy-in from all of those groups and understanding where they are, sandy mentioned, let me let me just dive into that a little more, the groups you obviously can’t have all the users in in each office or team. Whatever’s going on whatever it’s called that are that are impacted by this, so there has to be a representative should that necessarily be a senior person within that team? Or is that not necessary? I don’t, so i think they’re i think there are different types of state groups and committees there’s definitely, for example, in a project it’s good to have, ah, way of of proving and making key decisions, you know, approval process, which sometimes you need the people who have that power and influence in the organization, but then there’s a equally as an influential and important group, which is your key users and those don’t necessarily have to be, you know, it doesn’t have to follow the organization’s hierarchy, it could be r really a power user or someone who’s going to really be impacted by this change, and they’re excited to work on this project, and they might be the best representative on that committee. So if yes, it’s really important to be deliberate and strategic about the people you choose, you know, in in in engaging them in this project was i’m guessing sandy if they’re not part of the process, but they’re going to be impacted by it, we’re going tow. We’re going to increase the likelihood of the bad adoption that we’re talking about. Exactly. And i think you really have to include people that are sort of on all sides of that rains. You need to have some of the resistors, some of the naysayers, so that you could understand what their concerns are and figure out how you’re going to strategize around that and and kind of take that holistic approach. Okay? Yeah. All right, so you want to have some of the difficult cases in your in your process, you’ll be happier even though even though there’s gonna be difficulty through the process and in the end, you’ll be happier that that they were part of it. Exactly. Okay, okay. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst. Metoo fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Where should we go next after we’ve assembled are our project team basically is what we’re called this group you’re ah, could project team yeah, and then you can get super depending on how big of a project is, you can get a simple as just a team versus many committees and big and infrastructures, but yes, essentially the key people who are going to be involved in this project what’s next? Yeah, i would say, you know, i like to think of the analogy of running it like a campaign. So think about naming the project thinking, aligning it, you know, explaining the why behind why we’re doing this? Actually, actually, if i had to say that’s probably the first step, okay? Because in order to get people engaged in order to get even, funding resource is to do this, we really it’s critical that were very clear about why we’re doing this project, and it should align very closely to the organization’s mission, and there should be a good business case that support set and ideally, you know, it’s clear enough so that everyone can get behind it and can just buy a few sentences, understand very quickly. Oh, this is why we’re doing this change. This is why this is so i think, it’s making sure that’s clear and understood by all parties and you’re nodding a lot, anything from the university wisconsin you won’t share at this point. Well, our project, we really had very outdated systems, and we were the environment that we were working and really changed in terms of the critical nous of the foundation as a fund-raising toe offset ah reductions in state funding and things like that. So it became very critical that we figure out how to advance our capacity to raise money. And while that was fairly clear, i think to most people there needed to be a lot of visioning for people to say, well, this is why in the big picture, what do i need to do in my own role if i raise money for this particular school or college? What are the things that i need to do to engage my constituents and to improve my capacity to work with them and have individual people really picking up on that vision on the why? Why should i do this? Not just why should we do? It as a whole. What does it mean and breaking it down into those specific things? Okay, okay. I can see how that’s going to contribute to end user buy-in exact and that the ultimate you know, we’re all our goal is great adoption and buy-in and exactly all right. All right. Uh, well, shall we go who’s got the next next idea after? Well, you know, you want to continue thinking about it like a campaign. Sure. Yeah. So we got, you know, in lining the vision mission and being clear on the why we’re doing it. Engaging the right people. Stakeholders. Being clear on what your communication plan is your strategy. So, like a campaign, you know what we communicate and what frequency to whom? Throughout the project from the start socializing concept. You know, before the project start socializing this idea with those various groups just so they get understand before it happens. What’s happening. Another idea, too, is once you start telling people about a big change, people immediately think about how is this going to be done? You know? And i think it’s important to build that knowledge up front, or at least show them a visual of, say, if it’s a technology project what that road map looks like at a very high level, show them different milestones, milestones, timetable. Yeah, that’s one way without getting into the nitty gritty. But generally, is this a two year thing? You know, in these, you know, first half of the year what happens generally, you know, because people have a lot of questions as much as you can in the beginning, too illustrate that will just ease people’s fears and anxieties. And also no. Oh, yeah, we have a plan for this. We’re not just diving into this without any knowledge and to set the appropriate expectations around it. Okay, okay, sandy, anything you want to add to that just in terms of the visuals, the before and after picture also something that shows them this is where we are now. This is what’s going on. And this is what it’s going to look like at the end. What their system, diagrams, process things, stuff like that. Okay, to the extent we know from things going change without without qualification. But here’s, the better world vision that we have for you. Exactly. Better vision we have. For your world. All right, all right. Uh, okay. So as we’re moving along now, was there. Sandy was there consulting assistance in the project management at the university? Wisconsin. There was way worked with our vendor with blackbaud on the project that did the implementation. Ahs well, as had external project management involved to help shepherd things through and keep a focus. We’re a fairly large organisation and had were able to fortunately dedicate a fair number of staff some full time on the project and budget, accordingly, to put those resources toward in the investment in the time which was right. Okay, what kind of thing this is? Maybe this should be a question for the end, but i’m too anxious to hear what kinds of things that sandy you came in six weeks before implementation. So you kayman thes e stage. Yeah, well, maybe not, but you didn’t come in. You missed. You missed the blood and gore, maybe i don’t know. Right? So what kinds of things were the people in your your team, the records gift, inconsiderate records. What were they saying about the process that you missed? Right? Well, we had a really interesting situation on my team, which is within my department. I’ve got three teams, and one of them are constituent. Records. Area had really excelled throughout the project, in the planning, in testing and definite, identifying their requirements in vetting the solutions and really working things through and spending a lot of time doing that on the gift processing side. For a whole number of reasons, they were less ready, and there was some some significant change resistance that that had gone on way too long and on, and also just capacity. There was not as much time able to be dedicated from that team. And so that’s been a very different thing that we’re we’ve had to do a lot of making up for that after we’re live, which has been a significant challenge in that area, and i went to go live. Thiss was in august two thousand fourteen, so almost, yeah, okay. All right, so one team didn’t really come along as well as give processing, right? Didn’t come along as well as the others. Okay, sametz all right, so what’s ahh let’s. See what’s next. What other strategies for helping ensure success? Anybody? Sure, i think one one thing that is important is if you’re still in the planning phase. Ideally, you are really assessing the abilities you have in house or the resource is you have to do this project project? Yes, whether you need to be realistic about what you need help exactly. So it could range from budgeting obviously being really stick about that, but also your team. So thinking about from the leadership level even do the leaders have a very specific role to play on the project to the understand what that role is to they need coaching our support. Teo, help them what’s the leadership role in this real leadership programs are now weak leadership leadership of the project team or leadership of the organization. The organization? Yeah, what’s the role of the ceo, executive director, maybe even the board and i don’t know if the board is wrong. Let’s talk about these, so i’ll talk about the ceo maybe sandy has an example, but the board, university wisconsin but at least the ceo because ideally, you’ve already articulated the case of why this is important, why does it aligned with the organization’s mission ceo or someone of, you know, executive director, executive director? Sure, they should be visible and just be kind of, you know, your cheerleader about why this is important, because throughout the course of the project, it’s going to take people’s time, it’s going to be challenging it’s just not going to be a lot of fun. Many touchpoint saying it is a task being added to evaluate wireframes and processes and after test and, you know, i have a job to do too exact looking this on top, all right? So the somebody leaders tryto help us stay on mission on mission, right on goal are mission focused? Yeah, and i think it’s just being vocal and articulating and being there and have a presence of why this is important, that this still this is the reason why we’re doing this it’s lying to the organization’s mission, and then i think that just it doesn’t feel like this is just a project thrown onto this particular department or group, and they’re on their own. But there is support from the organization as a whole that we’re all behind this. We all support this. This is important. And the organization’s i’ve worked with as a consultant that have had strong leadership, who have done that job have been more successful. Ok? And so sandy is there something board hated you? Well, maybe. And maybe not even just at the wisconsin but general engine, the board’s roll. And then if you want to and if there’s a wisconsin story, we love stories. Sure. Well, i will use their story just because i think that we were we had excellent leadership in this regard. From both our ceo president and from our board. They were highly committed from the start. Our our president had been there. This was a major initiative for him and he’s been there for five years now. So this is fairly early. The implementation was about a three year project on dso. He recognised where things needed to shift in the organization and really was pivotal in making that happen. Some of the specifics he did throughout the project is it became a regular part of his communication when you talk about a campaign every week posts that go out on our internet from him with updates for things, there was regularly a section about what was going on in the project in trying to keep people aware of what was going and constant positive, a reminder of why we were doing it and what the vision would be. In addition, our board has technology committee that received regular reports and asked excellent questions along the way they were engaged, and they still are, you know, that they still are interested in seeing the metrics and seeing things and what’s what’s happening on the adoption side at every quarterly board meeting, our ceo does a presentation and an update on adoption and utilization in various things as the outcomes that have come along, which i think is is excellent, so they’re asking for those metrics and wanting to see them is one of the best ways to, i think guarantee adoption is that if somebody at the highest levels is looking at the reporting in metrics and outcomes of what year bilich the of what you’re trying to achieve? So not just adoption for adoption sake, but when you embed those into these air, huh? Hyre measuring our performance in our effectiveness if they’re not looking at that than nobody’s going to wanna, you know, going care to adopt it. So, you know, so that’s going really well, i’m sorry. Did you say the board had a technology committee? They do. They was that for the purposes of this project or there had always been a technology committee. I’m not actually sure how long it’s been in place, but it’s an ongoing it’s a permanent okay, that’s a committee i’ve never heard of. Technology committee looks at the use of tech throughout the brothers, the foundation, right information and tech. Okay, excellent. All right for interest. What else? One of the strategies do we have as we either of you move along our project project process, we got one thing that i would say is when it comes to change resistance and and this is a little bit, you know, maybe idealistic, but the more comfortable that in organization khun b and that the leaders khun b with the idea that you’re going to lose people but some people are not going to be on board with a change in direction and that’s okay, and people mean they leave the organization organization and maybe that’s not going to fit for them and that’s that’s a tough thing. But if you’re really looking out for what’s best for them and what’s best for you, you work you want to see this is why visioning, how their lives are going to be different is really important and what these benefits are so that people can evaluate it. Am i able to really put into this and my ableto continue to be committed to my job? Do eh? Is success in this how it what i view as personal success, and if those answers are no, then maybe you could be supportive and helping them figure out their next step, and because it doesn’t help to have people, of course, and they’re going to hold it down and they’re gonna hold it back and they’re never going to be satisfied. They should. They should leave. That seems really extreme to me. Does that happen? Often? People leave. Do you know if it happened to us was constant? I don’t want to do. I don’t want a new computer system that have to work with, so i’m gonna leave absolutely it having fun. I think almost all of the implementation projects we’ve done you’ve got coming to do. They tend to be people who aren’t very tech savvy. Maybe they’re older. What kind of people do this? I know this is so alien to me. Yeah, maybe i’m narrow minded. I don’t, but i mean it’s, just a new computer system, and i understand it’s going to impact your your your work every, you know, eight to five or, you know, whatever you’re our lever, however lengthy a day you have, i understand it’s gonna be a big change, but quitting a job over it? Well, i think it depends on where people are at in their career to, you know, some people, certainly, if you are, i can completely understand being at a certain point in your career where, like, you know, i did this fifteen years ago were ten and i’m just i’m done, you know, like i’m i don’t have the energy to do this again, learning something new, you can take a long time and khun b really, i know i personally if i have to get a new laptop, i i hate it because i know even as even though i know it’s going to be a week maybe where i’m like getting reoriented and everything still dread having to do it. And so when you’re using a major system and you’re changing the actual way that you’re working, that’s, it’s really exhausting, and so i can i can see where some people, if they’ve been through it before, and they really know what it’s going to take would say, i’m just not up for this right now. Interesting speech. Do you see this? You definitely i mean, i think the sandy brought up a great example. Sometimes it is the organization it’s the time they maybe this person hasn’t been reforming necessary that well. And then when it comes to a technology project everything’s going to change and it’s their opportunity to make sure they have the right team in place because it’s going to be a lot of work. So i’ve seen sometimes decisions about staffing being made once the project starts that’s, the organization leadership bilich making that for the first direct manager, okay, and at the same time, there are some people who just disagree with that decision. And because if they’re usually going to a new system, it might be a completely different platform, totally different set of skillsets and training that they needed a lot of investment for that person and for the organization. So they may decide that this is not where the direction they want to go in and okay, you have to be prepared for this. Yes. Ok. And so and it’s? Not necessarily it’s. Painful in that it’s. Not easy, that side of it, but sometimes that’s for the best of the organization, for that individual and for the project. Okay, wei have just a couple of minutes left now, sandy, you already alluded to pretty well, i mean, like, what we should be measuring in terms of are our outcomes on dh, how we’re going to measure success on this. Anything more that you want to say or that smith so that you want to add about evaluating success? Oh, yeah. That’s a big, big topic. Yeah, i what? What? I will say that it doesn’t happen enough. And i do think that it is important from the start to set out what your success metrics are for the project and because otherwise you decided the outset. Yeah, okay, because it’s otherwise, there’s no way you can meet, you know, every something’s going to give, you know, so just being clear, what are those most important metrics? And actually, sandy had a really interesting thought she brought up in the workshop about being realistic about in the context of a project. Do you have the same goals for your organization? You know, in terms of goals, um, set of activities like are you expecting when you’re going through this technology change to have the same outputs, to have the same fund-raising goals like it might? Maybe you could elaborate on that for sure. I think so. Hopefully when you’re implementing a new tool, it’s, because you’re looking to measure something, you’re looking to change something in the way that you work and how how effective you are doing your work so inherently in that hopefully the tool, whatever reporting or whatever kind of metrics are part of the tool itself, are reflective of that that you’re establishing those in such a way that this is what we’re looking to measure in order to inform further changes in strategy or whatever it might be. How well is this fund-raising initiative working in performance compared to this one? And so inherently in those tools? By capturing that data, you’re seeing adoption and it’s a cycle at that point. So the reporting on the outcomes is helping to inform how do you change your strategy, which you, in turn, use the tools to measure again and to kind of go around so it’s a little bit, but self fulfilling in that way, in terms of success measurements, the one other well, can you make you want to make a brief point? That’s? Ok, that’s ok. All right. We gotta wrap it up chanpreet leave it there. Thank you very much, ladies. Thank you. Sweet about a cake alarm. Vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy reinardy, managing director. Gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation again, ladies. Thank you. Thanks very much for sharing. Thank you. Thank you. And sandy. Especially from the university. Wisconsin. You know, sometimes it’s. Hard to share introspection. Thank you for doing that. Thank you. Thank you for being with us, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference, thanks so much. Inauguration social networks with amy sample ward is coming up first pursuant, their latest white paper is overcoming the major donor dilemma. The dilemma is the possible gap between data and activity. If your data doesn’t help you decide what to do, which course to take, then it’s not valuable? Yeah, time not well spent collecting it. That is the dilemma, and i actually might call it a paradox that they were this is what they wrestled with and their advice for howto bridge this gap is in the paper, it follows the life cycle of your major donor relationships, identification, engagement and cultivation it’s very much worth reading. 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We know it’s the podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand now podcast listeners ten thousand for sure old number over twelve thousand podcast listeners thank you pleasantries to you. Thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. Thank you for listening on your station. Whichever day, whatever part of the week that you’re, the station fits us into the schedule. Affections to our affiliate listeners. Amy sample ward. I’m very glad when she’s on glad to bring her back. She’s, our social media contributor and the ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. Her most recent car third book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample ward dot or ge and at amy rs ward welcome back, amy. Hi. Thanks for having me back. Happy twenty seventeen, twenty, seventeen. We haven’t chatted that’s. Right. Happy to you. Thank you very much. I note that oren luis is going to be nine months in two days. Do i have that cereal? I believe the twenty ninth is his ninth month. Isn’t that? Right, i remember. I remember, uh, happy, happy nine, happy nine, teo xero another quarter, he will have been a year. I know it just goes by so fast, goodness gracious. Andi, in the meantime, well, a little after that. Ah, but before his first birthday, you have a little conference coming up seventeen ntc we do a small gathering gathering thousand twenty five hundred some like that a little chat, little chat group, community group until i like that. A little chat group of twenty five hundred people go oh, it’s a tight community. You’re going to be the warden in park marriott march twenty third, twenty fifth what can we expect? Well, um first it will be it really will be a packed house were on track to sell out in advance. So if folks are listening and are interested, be sure you register soon, but we are gonna have, you know, obviously by selling out the largest in-kind attendance so that we’ve had before. And that means we’re trying to have the most content that we’ve had. I think they’ll be eighteen concurrent sessions, so tons, tons of speakers, lots of great content and three days full, just like we have in the past on dh will be in d c so i imagine that inevitably there will be a folk using their attendance at the conference is an opportunity, tio go just a mile or so down the street, teo the large white buildings to connect it with some of their representatives and be a part of all all the different conversations that are happening now, too, which i think is exciting that that folks can come to the conference, talk about and learn about all different ways to use technology and their work to support their their organizations, and then maybe also get to be in the seat of our democracy and go connect with their representatives. Indeed, is there any part of the of the conference schedule? That’s ah around organized, so we don’t have a formal advocacy day or anything at the heart of the conference, but if folks are interested and support, we’re happy to help them make a plan for that, but we don’t have ah, because the conference really covers organizations of every different topic and mission and geography, etcetera. We don’t formalize an advocacy day in that way, but like i said, folks, they’re interested and need more resource is there aren’t sure how they would go about connecting with their representatives were happy. Teo, help them all the info is that in ten dot or ge? I believe there’s, we’re in the mid tier pricing now like the early bird is gone now aren’t regular and then comes late, but regular has another couple weeks, doesn’t i don’t yet regular is still open and it may be that we don’t even get toe late registration because we are like i said on track to sell out early. So be sure that you register now also, so that no matter what you do, get the regular rate and you don’t have to pay the late hyre rate yes or risk being blocked out completely and then exactly super disappointed, alright and ten dot or ge, it is an excellent conference all about using technology it’s more smartly, more efficiently to help you focus more time on delivering programs and services. So it’s not just for geeks by any means. I understand what people saying when i interview the man it’s tze for everybody who uses technology, and unless you’re still using index cards and pay a long paper sheets, then you’re using technology, so it is an excellent conference highly recommend seventeen ntc and ten dot org’s check that out. Um, okay, let’s, look at some post inauguration or around the inauguration social networks. You you do some research on the march? Yeah, what you have what you find out, what did you find out? They’re well, so a couple things to talk about. So i think there’s plenty that we could talk about as far as the march that happened last saturday. The women’s march, but just one. But if you are listening live to non-profit radio, which you should right now in dc live is another march happening called the march for life, which is maybe some overlap between those communities, but probably very different communities marching about a week apart and very kind of looking, comparing and contrasting that, too is interesting because there are some things that, you know, tony, you and i have talked about before best practices for engaging your community, calling people to action, things like that, that both marches really did well. And then there are some things that are very different in their approach. So first, kind of looking at the organization of it all. You know, one thing that we’ve talked about in the past, probably multiple times, is that you don’t just want something to exist in one channel he wanted to be able teo be found content wise, schematically wise, everything across different channels and i think bull marches, you know, there’s a website where the domain of the website is the same saying that you’re using the hashtag, which is really helpful for people who maybe don’t know what to look for if they see the hashtag and then the domain of of the website related to that march is the exact same words that is super helpful for making sure they know they’re in the right place on both have that going, though i am not able to go to the march for life website unless i go teo kind of a sub page from a knitter net search results, so i don’t know if their main domain is just got so much traffic that it’s down or what’s happening, but i thought that was an interesting note on that their their website maybe isn’t quite er up to speed there, and then, you know, another kind of and that’s something we’ve talked about before trying to remember when we would have talked about this, but you know, there’s there’s, the role of hash tags in in a campaign in organizing people across different geography is and, you know, i just said the two hash tags that were used were women’s march and march for life, but then there’s also inevitably other hashtags that people start using in association with those events. So then you start to see tweets that have, you know, two or three hashtags, and and it kind of creates, like a niche community within that that larger world and one that i have noticed, justin trying teo kind of pay close attention and analyze the two experiences from last saturday and then the march today is the use of the hash tag, why i march versus why we mark and there were, you know, lots of, um, signs and videos and pictures and, you know, content compilations from last saturday’s, women’s march, where people were trying teo share their story and i think also document maybe the diversity of issues that people were bringing to that march experience with the hashtag why i march and in i think, uh, a crowd setting where there’s millions of people having on opportunity to feel like you’re telling your story, there’s, there is a unique voice that you’re adding to that because sea of people can be really empowering. And i found it interesting that today there’s a number of folks within the march for life world using the hashtag why we march, which certainly you can make the cases, is a unifying message. But i think also loses a bit of that opportunity for it to feel like anyone is that’s, anyone’s, individual story and more than that, um, you know, maybe talking points or thoughts, or kind of larger ideas versus their own experience. That that was an interesting observation on dh may be lost opportunity, right? Feeling like it came from someplace central versus personal personal experience. All right, and we’ve got to wait for a break. Hold all those thoughts, let’s, keep talking, excellent. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Amy let’s, let’s keep comparing and contrasting these really interesting. The women’s march and the march for life going on today i love it. So the next big area and you know this is like the most important things for me when it comes teo technology. And that is how how do we use these tools to organize people? To call them to action and to have that action will be kind of either or offline, and towards riel impact, right? That that idea that social media is just kind of collectivism and no one’s really doing anything is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. If all you ever ask people to do is click on things, right? So one thing that i was paying attention to, of course, since that is my my area of passion, is how both of the kind of organizer’s behind the marches focused on that. And of course, that means what are they doing ahead of time? How are they planning that? How are they getting consistent messages out, etcetera? And one thing that i was very surprised about is that with the women’s march, there were, of course, you know, not everyone can go to d c so there were marches all across the u s and actually even internationally. And they were all organized to happen on the same day, so that your amplifying that experience it feels like a shared experience, regardless of where you may be participating. You know, everyone in all those different cities is using the same hash tag, etcetera. But with the march for life there are also some some local marches happening in various cities, and they are not all on the same day, they’re kind of scheduled on various days come across a two week spread which i thought that’s again. A huge missed opportunity when it comes to creating that shared experience that people are all kind of in support of and and sharing this message that they would happen on all different days just feels disconnected. What do you mean? Ok, i mean, smart people put these things together, what’s the what’s, the other side of that. Why might they just to extend the time of the messaging and the conscience consciousness? Really think you could argue that it is? Extending the time that also it’s enabling, you know, local organizer teo time the march with maybe other actions or speeches or things that are otherwise happening locally at a different time, i think another reasoning that i’ve heard in general when it comes to more distributed timings like this is that way people have kind of their own day locally, but then everyone’s paying attention to the central event. But i still you know, if i was in charge, that wouldn’t be my strategic think the shared experience stronger. Okay, right you wanted to buy the same day same hashtag we feel the feel the joy and the passion across the world all over the same six hours. Yes, exactly. On dh then the last piece that i wanted to kind of compare and contrast that i thought was really interesting is so so what are they doing to drive folks toe action, right? Like the march is one action but that’s not going to be what changes the hearts and minds of politicians, local and national. You know, etcetera. So? So what? What are the other actions? And because the march for life is happening right now, i noticed and took a quick screen grab that in their live stream they have been flashing up. Ah, tex call so you would, you know, text ah word, teo, a certain short code on dh the word that you’re supposed to texas march for life, but i’ve noticed that had changed for two the number for which i think is very confusing because then your hashtag is spelling out fo r so there’s, i think a quick place where people are going to get hung up, but that’s, what you’re texting into is basically prompt tio notify your congress people that you are pro life. Yeah, so that felt like a very narrow channel to me. Andi in the march for women right away with with all the energy from marches all across the world, they have used the same website to create a centralized action process that they’re calling ten, ten actions in one hundred days. So every ten days, there’s a new action that they’re kind of owning and pushing out from that central march website that, you know, everyone was already going to. And if you look on the march for life website, they also have an action center and at resource is etcetera, but the actions are all outdated. The very top one references ah mother’s day campaign so, again, you knew the march was coming right? It feels like a riel missed opportunity to align that energy with action. And i think the march for women organizer’s have had a very strategic eye on riel action and forward momentum from the beginning. And you can see that in the way that they’ve set up some of those. Come on, you know, both the online content in-kind of the process for getting people to move forward. Okay, wey have to leave that topic there. That’s excellent. Comparing count contrasting. Thank you very much. Way just that we have about a minute left and i wanted to get to something that that you noticed about president trump tweeting from treating from his personal account versus the at potus twitter yes, i find it so i mean, you know, i think there’s going to be a lot of opportunities where we say i have nothing to compare this to and this is surprising. But i have, you know, no idea what to expect anymore. But this is certainly one of those situations, i find it so surprising, i guess, is the word that our president trump continues to use his personal, you know, longstanding twitter account at real donald trump to tweet things out all day long, and that the official potus twitter account is just a stream of retweets of his own personal account at what i think feels very strange on dh. I think what i mean by strangers is a reflection on the voice on the message. You know that our official presidential twitter account is a is a retweet, makes it feel and is reinforcing this feeling that president trump is separated from from that role. If he’s tweeting as himself and the quote unquote, the president is retweeting it, that just reinforces to me a very strange separation. I understand, okay, thank you. We gotta leave it there. Amy sample ward. You’ll find her on twitter at amy rs ward and again, check out seventeen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference at in ten dot or ge. Thank you, amy. Next week, grow your sustainers revenue and protect your donor’s data both from the non-profit technology conference last year. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. And we have to say goodbye to him because he got promoted to station manager at que tiene que carbondale colorado. He’s been outstanding. He got us off the ground with the affiliate stations. I’m gonna miss working with him. This is what happens. The best people move on and they move up and it’s. Gratifying and disappointing at the same time. So i i need to hire more lackluster people. I think that’s the lesson. More, more mediocre. Sze, um congratulations, gavin que tiene que better be our next affiliate station. Start the music, please, sam. Congratulations, gavin. And lots of good wishes to you. The show’s social media is by susan. Chavez. Our music is by scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and greet. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 13, 2017: Digital Inclusion Furthers Impact & Your Annual Grants Plan

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Kami Griffiths, Karen Lincoln, & Alicia Orozco: Digital Inclusion Furthers Impact

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More people than you’d expect don’t have home access to the internet. This has implications for those you want to help. Our panelists from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference have each made digital inclusion a priority, and they share their wisdom. Kami Griffiths leads the Community Technology Network; Karen Lincoln is from The Stride Center; and Alicia Orozco is with the Chicana Latina Foundation.

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure amblyopia if i saw that you missed today’s show digital inclusion furthers impact more people than you’d expect don’t have home access to the internet. This has implications for the people you are trying to help. Our panelists from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference have each made digital inclusion a priority, and they share their wisdom. Kemi griffiths leads the community technology network karen lincoln is from the stride center, and alicia orosco is with the chicana latina foundation and your annual grants plan. We start with the basics, then move into goals and metrics. Finally, colleague engagement. So you’re not alone making your plan and executing it. Diane leonard is president and owner of d h leonard consulting attorneys take two, mohr ntcdinosaur goes responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is our panel on digital inclusion welcome. To tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference in san jose, california, at the convention center, i guess now are camby, griffiths, karen lincoln and alicia roscoe. Cam e is executive director of community technology network she’s seated next to me. Hoexter haris carry in lincoln director of business and operations, the stride center and alicia orosco is manager of administration special projects at the chicano latina foundation. Ladies welcome. Thank thank you. Thank you. You have a very provocative, interesting topic digital inclusion to further your impact. I’m going to start in the middle there. Karen turns out that everybody in the country does not have access to the internet at home. I’m shocked to learn actually you’re not alone in being shocked. A lot of people are very surprised by that. Somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty five percent of americans do not have access to high speed internet in their home, and a huge percentage of them don’t even have digital literacy skills twenty to twenty five percent throughout the country. Yes, does that include? Does that include in urban areas? Or is it mostly suburban sametz rule? No urban it’s both definitely. Is checking your nodding vory right here in silicon valley? Yes, right here and in san francisco it is incredible. Do we know what the percentages here? Just in the local area or i don’t have that number, but we know that there is an inclusion issue here and it’s broken down by income, age and education level. So in san francisco, they did a report recently, and it showed fifteen percent didn’t have access and that’s in san francisco where you think everybody’s connected all the time, but there’s pockets of poverty, there’s people who don’t have homes and where did they access the internet? So a lot of people are going to libraries and other places to get online. So san francisco’s, lucky in california in general, is ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the country. But there’s still a divide even though some people think that everyone’s go to cell phone, so we’re all connected. But that’s, not the case what we all hear about libraries as the alternative? Are there other alternate besides libraries? What are they? Anybody? So? Community centers, recreation center, senior centers, other non-profits that provides services sometimes also offer access to computers, but you don’t always get training at those places. So that’s, what a lot of our organizations are focused on is the training. Yeah, okay, so not only the access, but also literacy. Yes, setting for this machine, but i don’t know how to use it. Yeah, it’s not doing me much good physically. Okay? And children are failing in high in schools because they don’t have connection at home and they are in schools where they’re five to six students per computer at their school. Eso it’s really they’re they’re incredible, they’re doing homework, they’re doing essays on their phones, their parents, phones and i take my hat off to them because they haven’t given up. But that’s not right. Also having access to things like libraries and community centre of senators doesn’t serve everybody because if you are home mound are don’t have access to a vehicle are living in a neighborhood was not try safe to go out at night. You don’t have the ability to use those other surgery, even maybe cost travel it, zach public transportation. It’s not free. You know, some people may be a burden just to get to the alternative and we have met families who packed their kids who have homework with the computer. They haven’t go park in the library parking lot to get the wifi and the kids, they’re doing their homework because if they go inside, they get timed out within an hour. Most of the computer’s already occupied parking in the library parking lot for wifi access. Yes, this is happening right here in san will say yes, and if you don’t have a car, you’re outside on a bench or they call him the leaners there, leaning against the wall using the internet from in the building? No, yeah, yeah. All right, that should be enough motivation. All right, so now the issue is that we are in our organization’s trying to help these people. We’re trying to reach them. You know, i hear it ntcdinosaur talking about so much about multi-channel engagement, but if two people can’t access the channels and don’t have to use the channels again, we’re not reaching them. Andi, we’re we’re trying to provide services a lot of times to this population. How do we write this is talking about how our organizations supposed to duitz hair themselves. To reach these people, all right, let’s, start close this time. Cam e how do we start even assess what the problem is, omar, our constituency is that where we started? It’s a good place to start and not everybody does that they jump right in and they’ll have a bank of computers there are they literally let their clients use their own computers, which isn’t necessarily the best idea caused after, oh, yeah, and or you’re helping them apply for jobs? They’re sitting next to you and you’re applying for the job on their behalf because you just want to help them apply. But what i would encourage folks to do is to partner with agencies who are already doing computer literacy or adult literacy or some way don’t take it on yourself to train your constituencies or help them connect to the internet, but know who the partners in your community are and work with them tio get them the training that they need. So we want people to be able to apply for jobs on their own, ideally in their homes, privacy, some degree of privacy, exactly, and taking their time cause a job application isn’t something. You should send six out in an hour. It should take an hour just to find one application that you want to fill out and then several hours to do research and fill out the application, you know appropriately and it’s it’s a time intensive thing and at the library is alicia said you’ll time out after an hour, and so libraries aren’t always the solution for job seekers. So for non-profit, who has stumped by this issue of their clients not being online, we’ll go to where the training happens partner. But if you have a needs assessment that you’re deploying into great digital literacy or digital inclusion into that survey, see you have some data to prove to the foundations that this is a need that you should give us funding for. So we can help these people get online at home, that they can provide access to their children to do homework so they could do job search liking, connect with family using skype research information, entertain themselves, whatever it is, the internet is this amazing revolution, and they should be able to join in. Karen, what are some of the things we should be asking if we’re doing a survey the way kapin suggesting to determine if we have a problem among our constituency. For one thing, you need to be careful about if asking if they have access to the internet or if they have internet access because a lot of talk about that’s duvette right? Yes, i do. I’m gonna buy community foundation, which is a two and a half hour ride, and it cost me six dollars to get there and years to come back, and i get timed out after an hour. Are you using your phone and your phone isn’t really where you’re gonna build skills that are transferrable, et cetera in the morning, you all three of you a very good teacher because i feel like i’m mastering sort you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals. Archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna duitz what should we be asking in a in a survey tool. So i would ask things like, do you have access at home? What do you want to use the internet for? Is it because you have a sense of isolation and you want to connect with your family? Are you looking for a job? Are you trying, teo? Better understand your health. I would get a better understanding of what skills they bring to the table. They may say they know how to use their computer. But does that just mean that they know how to look up? Something on an internet page are? Do they know how to create a word document? There’s? You really need to dig into what skills they bring to the table with access they have today and what their goals are with that usage. Okay, elisa, you’re doing a lot of nodding. Absolutely. So are you connected at home? Do you have equipment? You have actual computer. Is it working yet? We find that a lot of them are. You know, door stops like you said, karen, but but someone might answer that question. Yes, yes, we have one. But it’s worthless. Exactly. So on and then you know, your questions are very important. How would you benefit from having a working computer and knowing how to use it at home? And, you know, i i ask everyone who’s listening to us to start listening everywhere you go, if we go to a hospital, if you see your doctor, if you go to unemployment anywhere that you go it’s school, everything is oh, you can get it online. Cam. He was at the tax place you can download of the forms online. Um, so a lot of people don’t have that ability. Well, but but if you can’t here’s the altum won’t know the idea that the thing we want people to know is that the world has gone there, but not everyone has access to the world. This is a social justice issue. Are we leaving a percentage of human beings out of the twenty first century and it’s not because they don’t want to? We live at least here in this area where we are one of the most expensive areas in this country. People have two and three jobs just to pay rent, several families living together um so when you tell them that they’re going to have to pay forty nine, fifty dollars a month for their internet and then buy a computer. Well, say so are our listeners are oppcoll in non-profits themselves it’s form so they know size non-profit so well, they may not, but, you know, we’re raising consciousness. But now we want to approach. The problem is, how do you ten thousand plus listeners approach to approach your constituents who don’t have access? I mean, how can you help them geever gain access? Or how can you deliver your own services knowing that we have this enormous void? That twenty to twenty five percent of population was much bigger? Go on. Okay, let’s, continue. Karen, you want to you want to pick up with where do we take this next? Now we’ve done some assessment work. We know what our constituents are lacking. How can we help? So it would say there’s primarily to things that we can do in both alicia and can we spoke about this earlier today, one has become familiar with the organizations in your area that are teaching digital literacy. Non-profit work is very self referential. Nobody could do everything. Become familiar with what services are available in your area for your constituents and additionally, get the word out there. It’s so so unknown how big of a gap is being created, our population and how many people are being disenfranchised. And the only way that change happens is through awareness. So we all need to start talking about it also fight now, if you have a refurbished or in your community, for instance, we did that a lot in our project. So because they usually make computers available at no cost or very low cost, and then they offer support for those computers wave they do break down, so refurbishing companies are important, and they’re springing up all over so low cost internet is other there’s. A lot of companies coming out low cost internet options. So internet essentials from comcast is one that’s been out for about four, five years, and now they have a pilot for seniors. That’s ten dollars a month and it comes with one hundred fifty dollars voucher for a computer. So comcast has something low caused it. And t there’s mobile beaconfire ogle citizen so know what the low cost options are in? Your community that people can apply for, you know, advocate to your city government or your region to get low cost of free accessed in low income areas. So google fiber is doing some really interesting things connecting low income housing to free too free internet and so getting the low cost or free option of both the internet and the connectivity is very important, but not everyone knows how relevant it is to them. So having the training is absolutely essential tell them understand why it’s relevant and then how to use it safely because the safety part, especially for older adults, there’s a huge amount of fraud and older adult community, and they’re getting scammed out a lot of money. So if we can make sure that people, once they’re getting trained online, they’re learning how to do it safely. Okay, karen e i will just mention that there’s also a lot of lobbying that has bean done with the p u c with our legislature in sacramento. Yes, because there are merger’s happening and the comcast offer of nine ninety nine. There was because they were so kind and wanted to help people. In fact, they were forced by the government and then they sat on it and did nothing. The california emerging technology fund had money to give dahna in-kind grants to all of us to get the word out and that’s how it began by us getting involved in telling people if you have a child in school receiving lunch, you know, free or reduce you qualify for this. Well, i invite you all to look up california emerging technology fund because they are very involved in lobbying and trying to get access to california. Their goal is eighty percent. By next year, twenty, seventy percent california’s connected access in home? Yes. What would we search if we’re not in california? I don’t know anybody else, but i just got this major breeze. Yeah, yeah. Shivering on anybody wondering why the air just got turned up. Eighty percent don’t bilich they’re just got turned up to percent if we’re outside california. What we be googling what terms should be searching to find the equivalent to what elisa is talking about in our in our home state. So there’s a national digital inclusion alliance and i think the earl is digital inclusion latto orders something nd eyes yeah, and there’s a list serv and there’s a lot of us on and there’s lots of conversation. So if you were to join that and say, hey what’s happening in salt lake city national digital inclusion alliance and there’s a conference coming up in a kansas city in may for folks who are interested in this world of digital inclusion and any other resource is weaken, we can shut out at this point nationwide, i think just put in digital inclusion in your google search, you know, and and i and some of these organizations, you know, ah, city c e t s california virgin technology fund might be able to help you to say okay, because they are involved, actually national ing to a certain degree, they latto washington got india, you can’t just give up, and i’m happy to point people to other resource is i’m wanting to build my own network of who’s doing what in sharing resource is and that’s the only way i think i can get better at doing this work and to help us build a movement where were training the trainer because that’s what si tiene dozes trains trainers to teach free computer classes and works one on one with individuals and and i really think that’s one of the only ways to meet the need is to meet people where they’re at in the language that is it that they speak using the device that they use and to show them the things that they need to know how to do. And so if we can replicate that in a large way across the country and eventually the world that’s a way to address the people we should reach you if they would like to participate taken email me at cam e am i at seti en bay area dot or ge? And we’ve got resource is on our website and there’s, another conference for people in this space called shelby schools health library, broadband coalition that’s a yearly conference that happens in d c i’ll be going to that speaking. Shelby shelby is schools, health library, broadband coalition, it’s a mouthful. But there’s really great folks that go there too. And it’s all about getting people access to the internet. And why do they need to use it in the skills to use it? Okay. All right, there’s. More. We have more time together, so way, haven’t beat this topic up yet. Let’s, take a look. I’ll give you a couple of seconds to think about, and we’ll take a commercial break because i have to highlight and ten swag item we have from upleaf. Coloring, coloring and are outstanding. Piela hannah has taken some liberties with the owl. I already started to color this in, but this is from upleaf and of course, they don’t give you the cold sheets, but coloring pencils as well. And karen, i need your help. You have this to the intend to my intense swag pile? Yes. Sheet and the pencils. You got a pencil? It is a color color. That’s okay, one fell sixty. Okay. Thank you. Arika god. All right, so what more do we have to cover on this very important topic? Let’s? See what e-giving who’s with me? I would like killing program delivering. We haven’t talked about program delivery. I just want encourage everybody to think about volunteering in their community to help make a difference in this area. If you know how to send an email and you’re a good communicator, somebody in the community could benefit from you helping them learn how to use the computer. So if you have two hours to give once a week, you could really change somebody’s life by helping them use their new smartphone that they got from their adult child or used their laptop. To apply for a job or improve their resume. There’s so many ways that we take it, we take for granted what we know on this could potentially be a volunteer opportunity for some of our organizations who listen, i guess they could create something around digital little received within their community way have, for instance, you cannot latina foundation supports latina women to go to school hyre education by wei have a programme for them. One of our alumni apply for a grant, and she got ten thousand dollars so that she could teach classes and have computer for people in santa cruz. So there’s really a lot of ways that you can figure out how to help your community. She has now taught ah hundred people how to use a computer. And it was a four week course in the old computers based on this grant, as she got on her own initiative work going to school and having a job. And then she recruited students from santa cruz, u c santa cruz to join her and teach. So it was a beautiful, beautiful project brought in students. College students obviously exaggerate and connected. Let’s, uh, i’d like to move to programme deliver how do we start to break this down if we know that there are people were trying to help who aren’t connected at home? Where do we start with this problem? I think some of the things you have to consider is not on ly what the community is, what they’re trying to do because the things you’re going to teach a group of seniors is very different than a group of job seekers, for example, but if you’re talking to people who are like food and secure or don’t have the money, you really have to find a way to integrate technology into their life so they can start to see the value of it. And i think a good way to do that is tio not on ly find out what matters to them to find some way to subsidize the program for the first six to twelve months, so it does become a part of their daily practice because if you’ve never had in your home, you don’t know what value it is, and you don’t understand why an investment of ten to forty dollars, is worth your time. The other thing? Is that for instance, if you are working with families who have children in school, we found that there are a lot of school laizans who are actually volunteers. Who are you doing this? They’re training parents on the internet. Well, not only internet how to use a computer so there is depending on who your clientele or the community you are serving is look around because i bet that there are these other organizations that are doing the work or groups that are doing this work, the school’s air, very interested in getting the parents on the internet and on their school loop or there’s different names for it. But they would love to let their computer labs to be used. We did that in santa cruz. We did there in selena’s. We did that in santa rosa. It was the school so open there, their computer labs to be used by the community school hours exactly the things we’re sitting follow-up exactly. Yeah. So okay, kayman anything you can about the program which focus on definitely part brings people. Yeah, partnering with other agencies and not taking it on yourself would be the first. I think you do. Look out into your general vicinity, and if you’re in a small town there’s no one else, you know it. Good. Take the next step, teo, learn more about other cities. They’re doing it, learn from people like us, but don’t try and do-it-yourself it it’s really difficult work, and it gets harder if you’re talking about older adults and cognitive disabilities or, um, multiple language is being spoken in any one area and that’s the kind of stuff that we’re dealing with and, you know, we don’t have computers of our only partner with senior center, so we don’t have to maintain the computers. We don’t have to run the non-profit that’s housing the computers, we don’t have to provide the meals that are drawing the seniors in there in the first place to then go to the computer center. So find an adult ed or a library or school or somebody that has perhaps something that you can you can glom onto, or you can work together. And if that doesn’t exist and then really try and build a network of people who want to help out and so good place to go would be if there’s a school or a university where you can elicit the support of a service learning program, we’re partnering with usf to do that and it’s a really great resource for us and, you know, utilizing volunteers is an amazing way to address the need, but they need to be trained and they need to be supported, and the volunteers like to get to know each other, so having a real robust volunteer program is is essential and continually helping them help their learners. So there’s going to be questions about iphones? We’ll have an iphone train there’s gonna be questions about this new website they’ve never heard of. So have that kind of training for the trainers, so they can be really good at communicating this technology to the to the learners. So it’s it’s, really? And then one thing that we’re doing is a monthly networking event we call bragan borrow so people come together just to talk and brag about the cool stuff that they’re doing related to technology, access and training, and then the borrow pieces saying, well, i’m having this challenge. Can you help me with that? So that’s the one thing i’ve been doing monthly for? About a year and a half, that’s resulted, and some partnerships and me learning a lot about the different communities are last. Braggin bar was at a veterans serving agency that had some computers, and so he had about eight veterans organizations. I’d never met any of these people before, and now we’re having conversations about technology, training and access for veterans, so that was pretty special co-branding borrow? Yeah, they were all taking ideas from others. Course or not or no, nothing want to formalize it looks let’s get together every thirty days, days or something. The one thing i want to add, if we have time is talking about evaluation and reporting on your impact is the hardest part of all of this. That, at least for us, is how do we show the impact beyond the number of people who attended a computer class or the number of hours of training that were provided? We just have a couple minutes left way get to some ideas of how to do it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So i would say for us, it’s, knowing what the goal is of the individual for or the group and we’re not. Doing it as well as i’d like to because we don’t even have ah data collection platform, we’re working on sales force right now, so we’re hoping by the summer will have that well built out. But what is the goal of the learner? And how do we show that they have reached that goal? If if it’s ending isolation so what are the things you need to do? Technology wise, teo health and get connected? They’re not feeling isolated or for jobseeker’s that’s a little bit more clear cut? Did they get a job? Or do they feel like they’re getting more hits on their resume? So it’s really figure out what? What are you hoping to accomplish? And then how do you build in the metrics to track that goal and it’s for small non-profits it’s really difficult to do that? Well, because you just don’t have the staff tio ask the right questions, collect the data in the right way to then be ableto run reports at the end of show that there was impact there. So what what’s the small organization to do? How can they? They just get as close as they can to reporting impact? Well, you just start talking about it first and, you know, don’t beat yourself up if you can’t do it, but at least try and find out from the individual learners. Are you mark comfortable now? Whatever the goal of it. So if they want to get on social media, did they get, you know, after six months today, were they able teo do facebook because to do facebook you need an email and then did he e mail you need to know howto open up a browser so there’s all these things that you need to layer on top so that would be one thing is like, did you are you doing this now? Whereas before you couldn’t, you could say, percentage wise that’s an easy one to say like fifty percent of our learners air now able to do this thing or one hundred percent, so that would be an easy thing, but you do have to track it regularly and have it in a database, so i would say, don’t overwhelm yourself with things to collect just keep it simple and start small i do think it’s important also in addition to saying if they know how often they’re doing it i mean, i know how to do it, how often they’re doing it because if you’re really integrating that technology, it’s not just the knowledge it’s, if you’re actually using it in a consistent manner, i absolutely agree. All right, ladies, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you again. Candy griffiths, executive director of si tiene community technology network. Karen lincoln, director of business and operations at the stride center, and alicia orosco, manager of administration and special projects for the chicano latina foundation. Durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference thank you for being with us. Your annual grants plan is coming up first. Pursuant they have mohr free research for you. Overcoming the major donor dilemma is the most recent. This paper will help you with the identification, engagement and cultivation of new major donors overcoming the major donor dilemma, you’ll find it at pursuing dot com, click on resource is and then content papers check that out. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising they’ve got a new video up it’s from a night that raised money for hfc, which has helped for children. The organisation needed help for its programs, and it turned to wi be spelling. They raised one hundred ten thousand dollars that night. You see it all in the video at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak too. I’ve got no videos from last year’s non-profit technology conference. I’m capturing these under the rubric virtual organizations and volunteers viv of love, one on i’ve won on how to manage remote employees. Another is managing remote volunteers where to find volunteers, and the fourth one is leveraging your expert or tech volunteers. My video that introduces these four with the links you’ll find it, you know, where do i need to say it? Do i need to say it? Tony martignetti dot com and by the way, are you going to this year’s ntc? You’ll find info at in ten dot org’s you know it’s, an excellent conference, the non-profit technology conference that is tony’s take to my pleasure to welcome diane leonard. She has been a grant professional for over a decade and is president and owner of d h leonard consulting and grantwriting services, she has secured over thirty four million dollars in competitive grants for clients from all three levels of government and private foundations. She’s, the co host of hashtag grant chat, a weekly twitter chat for grant professionals she’s at diane h leonard and there’s an e at the end of diane on only one end make that very clear. And her company is that d h leonard consulting dot com diane leonard, welcome to the show. Thanks so much. My pleasure. You have the credentials gpc after your name. What is that? Yes. So that stands for grand professional certified that’s, the grand professional certification institute, a sister organization to the grand professionals association. Very proud to have been in the field long enough to be able to grant professionals. Well, they just make it certified grantcraft sessional c g p it could be that too. You know what? Happy to have the initials into people that feel that way you might look into that just switch just kapin called c gp certifies otherwise have grant professional certified sound like just have a comma after professional like rifle comma and seventeen o or something like that. Or i don’t know, i would look into that, see if they’d switch. It around, you know what? If i grant professional? I mean, it doesn’t that doesn’t. That doesn’t roll off a little easier. No. Well, like i said, i’m just happy to be able to be a part of the community and having thought, ok, you don’t want to speak out against your professional suspicion because cause trouble i i’m not. I will never have the gpc. I’d be a gpu. I got grand professional, uncertified, but i’m not even grandpre fresh inal, so i’d be just a u uncertified. Just have the letter. You don’t martignetti you uncertified. Okay, let’s, get into our grant plan for ah for the year. Um, sorry. I like to start with some basics we should have. Ah, calendar. Right. Looking forward for the year. Yeah, absolutely. Should have a grand calendar that lets you is the person writing france in the rest of your team. Know what is coming? We have for deadlines. Where do we need to plan to be? Ableto be a part of the grand process. It’s a stress level down. Okay. And we’re going to talk about other people who are part of this. That may not typically be thought. Of but we’re tryingto break down these misconceptions about who’s, part of the grand steam it’s more than the grant writers were going to get to that. Ok, i also noticed you say that you would like to say grant professional, but i usually see grants professional. Is there, uh, is there a split in the in the profession among whether your singular rip plural? Oh, i think more than anything, there’s a distinction for some folks will call themselves a grant writer versus a grant professional that’s usually the question we get versus a grant writer grantspace writer or a grant professional grant professional? Yeah, i’m asking the pool of single plural singular question. Yeah, i’m usually way use singular. Yeah, yeah. Ok. On the personal preference there, i think okay, the the industry has not standardize itself. There’s some room for standardization still in the industry. Well, singular versus plural. And i think these things are important. Scrutinized these things? Um, like c b g o r g p. Okay, um and so what should be a part of our grant calendar? What belongs in there? There’s. A fair amount that belongs in there. So upcoming deadlines for existing funders that an organization already has relationships with those take priority. So what will be the deadline’s related to their report to their relationship maintenance with those existing funders and then renewal applications? Also on, there should be any known deadlines for potential new funders corporate foundation of family foundation, as well as the outreach that you might make to those foundations before you choose to apply. So whether you’re goingto a funder, former participating in a webinar technical assistance session, though, should be on there too, and then, if you’re looking at government funding, we’re usually forecasting we’re not exactly sure when things will be out, so those guesses of forecasts for when you expect to see opportunities amount through the different either federal or state systems should be on the calendar as well as a trigger point, so that you’re watching those opportunities open and reminding yourself to pre plan for them the the the the outreach part of of ah being a grant professional, correct me if i’m wrong in this, in the statement, please, and i really do mean challenge me if i’m wrong that the relationship part of grantspace nw ship or grant grant? Writing is underappreciated often it is, and it’s actually one of my dear friends and colleagues, heather starbuck of just right solutions, loves to say that people give to people right and that’s not usually debated in the fund-raising community or non-profit but the reality is this is where heather takes it. A step further is that people the foundations are granting two people at the non-profit so it really it does might not feel the same as a major donor interaction or an individual donor, but ultimately, people are making those decisions. And so there is that opportunity for some dialogue dafs questions toe have some interaction, not with all grantmaker but it really it’s an important factor that a lot of folks do skip over under the stress of a deadline, and ultimately, in the long run, they probably hurting their success ratio is a result. Is it worth talking to the the grantmaker while you’re in process, you’re preparing your application one hundred percent, so i started as a grantmaker and while talking to a programme officer isn’t ever a guarantee of anything when you find a grantmaker that has the preference and the capacity we should. Maybe say the other order capacity and preference for some pre award communications it’s going to help you is the applicant to write a more competitive proposal or potentially to realize actually, maybe we’re not a good fit, so save yourself the time and it does. It helps the thunder is well in the long run again if they have the capacity and the preference for that communication because they’ll ultimately they’re receiving stronger awards as a result of that dialogue. Now, how do we assess whether they have capacity and preference? Can we just call and say i don’t have any specific question about the application? I mean, like, i understand it completely, but what do you say? How do you open that conversation if you don’t have specific questions about the process? Right? So the way that we handle and recommend that our clients do that outreach is through their research when they’re looking at an opportunity, but they’re looking at the website and they’re seeing what is the thunder actually say? Community foundation for southeast michigan says right on there, please, paul, before you apply crystal clear in their materials, they want to talk to you others. Will say, please email us or please call the program officer, please call the program director. Please email. On the flip side, there will be those that in their materials will say no increase accepted, so a lot of them were being pretty clear if they have a printed website or if they have it and you will report, they’re putting out information to try and make it easier for focused, understand what it is that they want or could allow to happen for station. But i think really what’s important that you consistently developed talking points. If you find a thunder that you’re going to have the opportunity to email with or call, maybe even meet in person and the way that we develop the talking points, they worked just as well in person as they do on the phone, or they turn into a great female. So the first thing is to do a quick introduction. Who are you and who are you? Not the whole history of the organization, which is quick, okay? Calling because based on my research about your foundations, you’re granting organizations, i think that our organization is a really strong potential grant funding partner with you because give him a thirty second elevator speech. Why do you think that your work is well aligned with theirs? Why should they want to talk to you? Okay, elevator speech or you’re at a cocktail party without a quick thirty seconds with somebody before they run away. So you’re establishing upfront that you’ve done research and you’ve thought you’ve thought this through. Okay, okay, uh, here’s, why we’re a match? What it what else? And then the last part is that you’re gonna ask, may i ask you? I’ve got a few questions that will help me understand if we’re gonna be competitive in your process and make our application the best possible for you that’s the phone call going, they’re likely going to say yes or in person they’re going to say yes and email you just dive into it, you’re going to ask him to two three thoughtful questions, thoughtful questions are things that are not in a funders frequently asked question documents, they’re not things that are clearly outlined. On their web site, a thoughtful question is if you read all their materials and you haven’t you do you have a question? Do you prefer to do a matching grant versus a one year straight project france here? Are you willing to fund salaries? Is that an eligible expense? Those are legitimate, thoughtful question could be that the way that they’ve described how they support education, you’re wondering if indeed they’ll actually support after school activities vs heimans on ly in school tutoring programs or whatever the case might be something a little more programmatic and you might say, well, they’re materials are really clear, i don’t know, i’m not sure i have a thoughtful just like anything else with people, people love to talk about themselves, so a thoughtful question to a funder all that you might want to ask you, would you tell me about a recent france that did a great job of sharing their outcomes with you? Or they did a great job of publicizing the funded work? Get them to talk about something that they funded that went well, because that’s going to give you a good example? Something to think about for what? They like, help the work that you do. How could you talk about it to them in a similar way in the application? I love it. I love it now, if you do this, if you open the door this way and have this this delightful conversation what percentile of grant applicants would you say you’re putting yourself in? You’re putting yourself in the top tier for sure? Yeah, it’s just not that it just doesn’t happen. People don’t think of the relationship part of of grant work. All right, all right. That was an excellent thank you for that digression. I took us there, but that’s not our plan. But we call it the three r’s. So the research then you do relationship and lastly, you get to be your third are of writing. Of course doesn’t start with an r but we capitalize. Alright that’s, everybody but it’s a quick thing. People skip the second r that’s what we failed to do research they do writing everything in between. Ok, we know that you know how to spell the word writing so i declare we’re going for the alliteration i underst which i love very much appreciate so it’s fine. We will know you, khun spell. All right, all right. That’s cool. I like that. Uh, yeah. Okay, so ah, and putting our backdrop calendar. We’re putting this counter together, there’s, considerable time. We have to spend looking into all these things about deadlines and africa. Not all applications, but renewal, etcetera, mean there’s a lot of time up front goes into this. It is, but it really. It ends up saving you significant time in the long run and it’s usually well paired that you’re working on your grant calendar creations. While you’re working with your peers, your colleagues in your leadership for what is that grant revenue line item look like in the operating budget for the year ahead. At the same time that your organization is pausing to budgeting work, you should be creating your grant calendar so that they’re in synergy. Yes, and not only amount, but timing, too, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, it’s. Excellent. Nastya. I’ve had guests on talking about this hyre generally, but never heard that you have to align the revenue with with the budget. Otherwise, everybody’s gonna be disappointed if the grand budget revenue line item is off right. You is the person who was doing the right thing, and those that are in leadership responsible for that budget. Yeah, could be worse than your disappointment. Okay, let’s, take our first break. When we come back. Diane and i will continue talking about your your annual calendar, and we’ll get a little more in depth. A little more advanced. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth godin, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, tap trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m melanie schnoll begun managing director morgan stanley philantech management. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i gotta send the live love that’s, etcetera, etcetera, it’s gotta go out were pre recorded, so i can’t name you by city and state. But if you are among our live listeners today, the love goes out to you. Thanks so much for being with us. Not only love, but thanks gratitude and love podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand i’m brown prepared to say it now, you know it’s happened so often that it’s over twelve thousand that’s all there is to it. It’s over twelve thousand podcast listeners it’s just that simple we’re beyond that ten thousand mark ten thousand threshold so pleasantries to the vast majority of our audience, the podcast listeners, whatever device, whatever time, whatever you squeeze us into your busy hectic schedule pleasantries to you our podcast listeners, thanks so much for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. Affections to you. I’m glad that you’re listening. Let your station know that you do listen so they get some feedback. That’s always valuable affections to our am and fm affiliate listeners. Okay, diane. Leonard. Um, this this process necessarily involves gold setting. Let’s. Talk, let’s. Talk about that. Sure, having goals is really important for yourself, and so that the organization is in well alignment with grant seeking strategy and really articulating and achieving your strategic plans. Okay, so well, so what are some of the some of the goals you have? You have lots of good metrics here. I love all of these metrics that you list, um, like award percentage and percentage funded versus asked, we’re setting goals for for all these things, ideally, yes, what we find is that some organizations our only using one or two metrics to measure their grant seeking success. What’s really, there is a pretty long list of different metrics that can be used and if you together actually present you with a fuller picture of the success and where you’re seeing growth or potentially room for improvement in your grantmaking so that you can try and sharpen your skills, have better success percentages overall have a stronger return on investment on each koreans that you write as we’re setting our goals. What do we benchmark against? Is that to be organizations like us eyes that number even? Or those numbers even available to what degree does the previous year factory or the previous three years? Great questions? People tend to be pretty tight about sharing they’re different personal metrics, and so it really is about looking at your organization’s ask track record looking at one, two and sometimes three years back to see what those different their success presented percent of funders that are renewing percent of each year to see what dollar amount or what a number of total grantspace unders versus previously existing relationship. If you look at those numbers that you’ve got a longer terms history, it can show you sometimes there’s some blips, things that happened because of government funding, in or out that are beyond your control. That would impact your metrics. That’s what you want to look at more than just the past year hyre establish a benchmark where were you? And set some goals from realistic goals for yourself? For how could you improve your work? And hopefully your grant revenue is forward so it would be off color of me to ask you what you’re percentage of awards is that? Is that an inappropriate question? Not at all, totally appropriate, especially if you’re talking to a grand consultant were usually pretty public, so my success percentages stayed over sixty five percent for my eleven years in business. Okay, is that how does that rank? I don’t know two thirds proud. Of that, though, i will say that with pride. All right, so two thirds of the application that you submit over the past eleven years have been awarded. Is that right? Did i state that? Right. Okay. All right. Two thirds. All right. Excellent. Um, all right. So let’s, talk through some of these, um, percentage funded versus asked, like it’s that’s pretty straightforward. Um, again, you know, it’s it’s, i think the toughest part of this is figuring out where you fit in. Like, what? Which leaves should we be looking for ninety percent funded versus asked? Or is is fifty percent good? It’s tough it’s, very tough, and especially depending on what type of work you’re doing and what type of grantmaker you’re applying to what would be a good standard will be different. So, for example, and i ate when they publish their funded percentages mean there, so incredibly evidence all grantmaker czar, but at an age to think the last published that i saw was that thirteen percent of submitted proposals funded thirteen percent. But that’s all the work you’re doing, you’re probably gonna be happy with a different numbers than if you are solely working. With family foundations for britain families. Percent of funding renewed and increased. Can you say some something about that? Sure. So if you look back at the last year and you see which funders you received funding from, you’d be looking then to say, well, how many of those? Well, i’ve retained what percentage will i receive another grant from in this upcoming year? And ideally, what percentage could i increase in award from? So instead of getting another seventy five thousand dollars france, i should be great if i could increase and get an eighty thousand dollar grant eighty that’s modest, i was thinking from seventy five to one hundred it was eyes like crazy. I mean, you’re the pro eyes is that is that unreasonable to go expect somebody of thunder to go from seventy five to one hundred it’s so situational for something having the increase of a few thousand is a big deal for others, you’re right, you could make a much bigger jump depending on what you’re proposing mean, if you did a great job last year or over the past two years with them, um, and and you have a way of expanding the program, wouldn’t that be a credible? Argument for giving ah, what would my case would be? A thirty percent increase? It certainly could be, and i think you know, this actually goes back to that relationship point if you’ve done more than just implementer project, but rather you thought about how you can enhance your relationship with your grantmaker in addition to doing what you said you would when you said you would, how you said you wouldn’t your applications, i think you stand a much better chance of increasing your award in the future year. Yes, well, one of your metric is grant compliance. How do we measure that when you look at the different brands that are being implemented for some, if you’re talking government grant has got very strict standards from the ownby office federally, but we’re looking at grant appliance. You could measure yourself on percent of report turned in on time or early percent of grant bill turned in on time or early, even simple metrics like that go a long way, because as soon as you turn a report in late, you hurt your truck and your relationship with the grantmaker. Yes, very much. And and your credibility is diminished. Yeah. Um, labbate diane, we may have to have you back is we only have, like, two minutes left, but i i want to get to the use of your colleagues and expanding the definition of who belongs on the grant team. Please talk about that. Sure. So when we say grand team folks will say, i’m a grand team of one and what we really mean, when when i talk about grant team when those that i worked with when we talk about granting what we mean, are those organizations that play a key role in e-giving you helping you give it, tio put together competitive applications so it’s leadership for saying yes, good ideas in alignment with our plans, somebody from finance helping giving you the budget numbers it’s a vice president of programs or a program director that telling you here’s what goes in that logic model form here’s what goes in your work plan for they are they might not call themselves formally ever a grand team, but they are your pre awards frantic. Then you have a post award rant. Eam might be slightly different players. That are helping to make sure grant rented the way that it was proposed. That thunder information is being shared back by a report, if there’s a need for financial building or you do a revision to a budget there helping and working with you or your grandmamma jer, if your organization has one, they’re working together for that. So again, i might not ever call themselves a grand team formally. You might not ever see it on the organ chart. They exist. Not truly a solo role to be in grant. We have to leave it there. I hope you’ll come back again because there’s a lot more to discuss and some of these topics, and we gotta leave it there. Thank you so much. You’ll find diane’s company at d h leonard consulting dot com and she is at diane h leonard again. Diane, thanks so much. Thank you so much, tony. My pleasure. Next week, very special show atlas of giving. Ceo rob mitchell announces the fund-raising results of twenty sixteen and the forecast for twenty seventeen with us will be paul schervish, america’s professor at boston college, and professor doug white from columbia, commenting on the review and the forecast. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lewis is the line producer. Gavin doll is our am and fm outreach director. Shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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