All posts by Tony Martignetti

Nonprofit Radio, March 26, 2013: Discover Your Brand & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Nadia Christina Tuma
Nadia Tuma
Nadia Tuma: Discover Your Brand

Nadia Tuma is a brand innovation strategist with clark | mcdowall. Your brand goes much deeper than logo and tagline. What’s the process to discover your brand strategy? Once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and I will discuss.

 
 
 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler returns. He’s our tech contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. What content should you post for consumption and where should you put it? How do you start your content marketing? Scott and I will discuss.

 
 
 
Both segments have survey questions. Please take a moment to answer three quick questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.
 
 
 

Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey , the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://tony.ma/Zpjgmr


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Metoo hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. I want to wish you cog, posca, so make i hope i’m saying happy easter in, i’m trying to say happy easter in hebrew and ah and happy passover in italian is born passat born peskay it’s march twenty ninth, two thousand thirteen and i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be disgusted to hear that you had missed irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explained, the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix the problems we talked about the common mistakes and what to do and compensation clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the san francisco law group, the non-profit and exempt organizations group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if camp is excessive? And what’s that automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t properly disclose benefits. We did a mock board meeting and i walked out remember i had sound effects and everything. I’m amusing myself if you refuse to be amused. I’m amusing myself last week. I want to make something clear. Last week i had said that gary vaynerchuk, gary v you may know him as had been on last week, which would’ve been two weeks ago. He was scheduled to but he had to reschedule for may. Well, have him in may and i just want to make it clear i was not drinking last week. I had recorded the show many weeks ago, back when gary was still going to keep his promise. But then he broke his promise, but he made up for it. We love we love gary. I’m just getting gary in case any of his entourage is listening. We like gary v and he’s coming this week. Discover your brand nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark i mcdowell that’s not an eye there’s no period it’s clark vertical line mcdonnell that’s very dramatic clark vertical line, vertical mcdonald, your brand i’m glad not he’s laughing. She hopefully realizes that i wrote this copy. So i know it’s, not an eye. Your brand goes much deeper than logo in tagline i hope you recognize that what’s the process to discover your brand strategy. And once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and i will discuss all that also content marketing scott koegler returns he’s, our regular tech contributor the editor of non-profit technology news what content should you post for consumption? And where should you be putting it? How do you start your content? Marketing scott and i will discuss that between the guests on tony’s take two planned giving is part of your fund-raising team that’s what’s on my block this week, i’ve got some simple ways that planned giving can support the rest of your fund-raising my pleasure now to welcome and introduce nadia christina touma she’s, a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdonnell i guess you know it’s probably supposed to articulate the vertical line. It was an ampersand you’d say clark end, but it’s not supposed to be clark vertical line mcdonnell just clark macdonald that’s where she’s an a brand strategy innovation ist her work is creating and revitalizing brands in our swiftly changing world. She’s on the faculty of the school of visual arts, s via the masters in branding program, where she teaches brand strategy. She has worked with non-profits such as slow food and why i see in the pittsburgh concert society and in college at carnegie mellon university. She had a minor in piano performance, and we’re going to talk a little about that, too. Nadia touma, welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. Glad to see you laughing already. Very good. Um, co-branding i think there’s a lot of misconceptions about what a brand is. What? What? What is branding? Well, that is a very good question. First one out of the box. Alright. Alright. Complimentary. You could stay the whole hour. With pleasure. Ah, i often get that question. A lot of people don’t quite know what branding is. I have a lot of confusion even within my family and my closest friends there. Not sure exactly what i d’oh. I think the best way to describe branding is to define it as what? It’s not co-branding is not. Ah, brand strategy is not marketing it’s, not advertising its not a logo it’s, not pr. It is actually the foundation. And the strategy is really the backbone of all of those things that it will then effect. So, you know, a brand strategy consists of things like a mission, a vision, reasons for being the dna of what a company and its products stand for you. And then all of those marketing pr efforts are executions off that strategy. All right? And then you have to maintain your strategy once you’ve once you’ve devised it well, not only maintain that’s very important maintain, but also stay relevant and state different. So it requires connection to the world connection to your consumer. You know, the world is not stagnant, and neither should have brand be stagnant. S o you have a very solid foundation, but you have to move with the times as well. Now, how do world renowned brands like apple? You know, nike, how did they create that that aura around them? And you just say apple and people think of steve jobs, and they think of beautiful design and innovation and slightly expensive products. But how did they how did they had to create that well, that’s, really the magic question and that’s, why people like me exist which is to help companies really create that magic, but at a very fundamental level there are couple characteristics that make a brand very strong, one of which is its first of all, that it’s relevant, that it’s relevant to people’s, lives to companies, lives. Another important characteristic is that its distinctive so it has to be relevant. But it also needs to be somewhat unique um, and somewhat special in a way that the delights people there’s also another really wonderful thing that strong brands do, which is they defined categories, and they almost shift culture in a way. So if you think about really strong brands like apple, for instance, you know they’ve really changed the way we interact with the world, with music, with movies, with people, you know, and those very, very strong brands are able to almost do that and shifting culture, which is really cool. All right, so let’s, let’s, bring this to the to the small and midsize non-profit level. You talked about a lot of things in developing the brand strategy, but so let’s let’s. Try to flush this out. How do you how do you start? Toe create your strategy. What? What you want to be? Yeah, and that’s oftentimes the biggest challenges actually understanding. What is it? What is our reason for being? Why do we exist? And that’s challenging? Because a lot of times there might be differing opinions or different objectives within an organization within a midsize non-profit but but every non-profit has a mission statement almost always go to the home page it’s a simple pull down it’s right there in front. They all have a mission and you in a vision. So, isn’t that. Isn’t that the basis or there might even be some the differences of opinion? Despite that? Yeah, i know a lot of times the mission statement it could have been written by, you know, someone who founded it years ago, and it may not be as relevant or the way in which it’s interpreted might not be consistent across people who are making decisions everyday within that organization. Eso when we think about a mission statement it’s, you know, it’s sort of a first level and that needs to be agreed upon, of course, but from there there other components like understanding who were retargeting what’s our consumer, our audience, you know, what exactly do we offer, even from not just a functional standpoint, but an emotional standpoint, even if you’re just a midsize non-profit that’s all very important. S o sometimes mission statements, vision statements are written without those components in mind. And so that’s what needs to be really fleshed out internally, say, a little more about the emotion? Yeah, so you know every organization, whether you know, whether you’re lady gaga or your you know, proctor and gamble, you’re offering functional things, so you’re offering toilet paper or you’re offering entertainment and music, but you’re also offering, and i don’t think lady gaga uses ivory, so probably not right. I don’t think she uses anything anyone else used, but from an emotional standpoint, you also have to deliver something right brands need to make you feel something on dh. So even if your say, you know a local music organization that promotes local talent, there needs to be something emotional that the audience gets from using you. Otherwise you become just purely functional, and a purely functional offering is not a complete brand and we can articulate all the all this i mean, we can pull all this into ah ah, cohesive statement and understanding among all our different constituents are bored are our staff are sea level people, the people who are benefiting from our services, whether they’re students or or the homeless way? Yeah, absolutely. And what’s actually critical when you’re implementing ah, brand vision or a brand strategy is to get buy in from every level of the organization. So everyone who’s doing the accounting? Teo being a spokesperson, teo, you know, being the ceo all need to believe it’s it’s the difference i often tell my students it’s a difference between interacting with a customer service representative it zappos, who clearly believes in the brand to buying something at duane reade and interacting with the checkout person, okay? Or maybe state government, maybe that’s all right, that’s a good example of the other end of the day. Yeah, okay. We’re gonna take a break. We’re going to dive more into detail about how to develop your strategy, what that process is about. So now he has certainly stays with me. And i hope that you do too talking. Alternative radio. Twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service, sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com buy-in durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got tons of live listener love china so well represented. Young jang kun ming chung ching, shanghai, shenyang, wuhan. I’ve been to wuhan and i’ve been to shanghai. Shi on is not there. I was in shi on to where she on left fans behind and she on i thought. But china chinese ni hao. Very nice to have you with us and seoul, korea and day. John korea. Very nice to have you with us on your haserot here in the u s new york, new york. Welcome, smithtown, new york. Welcome. Will smith times at long island, i think i think it’s long island welcome live listen, love tto all those live listeners and more to come. Okay, nadia touma. We’re talking about the importance of branding here. By the way, when you become a partner in your firm, i want you to tell them you want an ampersand before your name. Okay? Not the verdict. I don’t care what kind of equity they offer you a share in the corporate jet. You want not the vertical line. You want to be end too much, really? The memo percent um okay, let’s, go let’s, get into this process a little. Now all these all these constituents need to be involved. You mention from accountants to board members at sea level. Bonem what do we what do we start this this process with if we want to develop our brand well, there’s, just like they’re possibly dozens of definitions of what brand strategist do there’s also many ways in which a process khun begin. I’ll tell you my personal perspective. I truly i truly believe that partnering with whoever you’re working with is incredibly important. So getting together say, your ah brand strategy agency or you’re working on your own, getting together with that client and really sitting down and understanding what’s the issue what’s at stake what do your objectives try to understand? What’s our goal and together as a team really outline what a success look like. You know, it’s really define what those girls look like and parameters, you know, what’s what can we change what’s off limits? You know what can we not touch from there? I think it’s really important to get the perspectives of a lot of different stakeholders within that. Organization and try to understand is there are other inconsistencies among them in terms of what the mission is, what the vision is. Do they see the company going in different directions? Do they see in a different place in five years? What are the different strengths and weaknesses that various parties see? Understanding even that is an insight is to understand what’s our current situation. You know where the inconsistencies, where the commonalities and from there, we can start to create a common goal. So there’s a lot of conversation, a lot of interviewing focus groups. Is that is that it was that all part of this? Well, focus groups come a little bit later. So once you do wanna interview internally and understand what’s going on within, because the change will have to happen from within. So getting a good read on that is really the first step. Okay on, i did survey listeners before the show on dass cked in the past five years, have you given considerable thought to your brand strategy? A little more than half said yes. About close to sixty percent said yes. And then about fourteen percent said no and about a third said, i’m not sure what brand strategy means i better listen to the show, so i hope those listen, i hope you’re on. I hope they’re either in china, japan or smith down listening, all right, but no more than half have feel that they have given a lot of thought within the past five years. Well, i think in the past five years, there’s been a sea change in the perspective of brand strategy. I’ve seen it absolutely well, i think that brand i mean it’s still a nebulous term that clearly people aren’t quite sure what it means. I think that there’s been quite a shift recently in going going from financial measures on ly in terms of measuring success to trying to build in metrics that measure the quality of your brand as well. I think cmos and ceos are recognizing the importance of having a strong brand in addition to the bottom line. Now, cmo is a very common term for you, but here on the show we have drug in jail on i would hate wade. You have a female ward for for george in jail offenders cmo so that all the listeners know what you’re talking about, chief marketing officer excellent does a lot of non-profits certainly don’t have cme owes a lot of this falls right on the executive director or maybe a communications and marketing staff but might not be a chief marketing officer. All right, so we’ve gathered all this information from all the different constituents, and i think including importantly, people who are benefiting from the work that we do a zay said earlier, whether they’re students or they’re the hungry who you’re feeding the batter to your sheltering them in there, they’re certainly included, we have all this information. Now what? How do we coalesce this what we’re looking for, right? So i think that once we’ve understood what’s going on internally, we want to then turn r r face toe to the outside world and understand who are we affecting? So is that the hungry? Is that students and decide who was it really that were after? And i don’t mean after in a predatory sense, i mean, in terms of who’s, our audience, who are we trying to read? That’s actually an incredibly important part of it to really define that target audience on and i don’t just mean to finding it in terms of demographics, so you hear a lot of terms thrown around, like males eighteen to thirty four or moms with kids or the baby boomers. The reality of it is that each of those groups has shades and shades of different types of people so it’s more important to understand. Are you looking at moms with kids who are into organic food or, you know, are you looking at males eighteen to thirty four who are married and, you know, working full time or are things like that that that add texture to who you’re looking at and then it’s important to understand? Let me ask you when you’re doing that? Do you ever devise hypothetical people? Absolutely had guests? I’ve had two guests in the past. You have talked about that for in terms of marketing strategy. Yeah, about that oh, that’s. Incredibly important. So we call them creating personas on dh it’s. Really? It’s it’s wonderful to do with clients. Because i think one of the pitfalls of working all the time with inman organization is you start to see your audience as a number or, you know, a cell. In an exception, a stereotype of some complete stereotype and it’s. Amazing to see the way in which top level executives will react. Teo very well fleshed out persona and what i mean by persona is outlining the person as if they truly were a person. What do they like to do in their free time? What brands do they use in other categories? That’s incredibly important. What’s their education level. Where did they go to school? Where do they like to vacation? And you really bring that person toe life and they become someone that is relatable. And in that sense, i think you create better solutions, theun just saying, while we need to increase exp i twenty five percent and why by sixteen percent do you give those personas? Name’s? Vivian? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And a lot of work goes into that is, well, really the name? Yeah, sure. We’re okay. All right, all right. So i made you tigress labbate because that’s interesting cause the other guests i said have made the same point sabat so we’re coalescing this invention that we’re going outside. Are we doing interviews with with these potential personas? Were trying to meet people who fit the description of these different personas absolutely, i think that the most important thing to do is to talk to your consumer, and it’s really brings it to life. You, khun do surveys. My personal preference is to go out into the world and really interact with who you’re going to be speaking with on dh that could be done in a variety of ways. So ethnography zehr quite popular, and that means don’t get into that jail again, jack in jail ethnography xero when you go into the audience is natural habitat really so to speak? So if you’re studying, you know the way in which people consume alcohol, you might be going to bars or their homes before they go out. If you’re, you know, studying perhaps skin care, you might go and observe someone shopping for skin care. So you really want teo me? Clearly, it won’t be a pure experience because you’re their jotting down notes and you know, you’re obviously observing, but you do get to see those those nuances that you might you might not get if you’re in a focus group facility. Not to say that those air not incredibly valuable because they are one of the things you get from focused group that you don’t get in other types of qualitative research is that you get social interaction, so you’re watching people react to things, and then maybe another person says something that sparks another thing, and then someone else builds on that and you start to get these incredibly rich insights from whatever stimulus you’re bringing in. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdole, which you’ll find on the web at clark with no, no, eat the end. Mcdowell, m, c d o w a l l clark macdonald, dot com what types of questions are you asking these people? Well, that all really depends. It depends on the objectives of what you’re trying to find out. So if you’re if you’re doing just straight consumer package good type research such as skin care, alcohol or you nutrition shake or something of that nature you’re trying to understand really the needs behind it. One of the things that is let’s think let’s, bring it to a non-profit sure you’ve worked with a music and arts group in the past. Yes, i suppose it is. A small arts group. What what? What are we trying to find out from their their their constituents? Eso for example, for this small arts organization that i worked with, they sponsored and showcased local classical musicians in a recital setting. And they were having an issue with their audience. There wasn’t enough of coming to these recitals. So really it’s it’s not just saying, why are people not coming to a recital? That’s sort of just scratching at the surface? What you really want to try to understand or what are those unmet needs that is, is prohibiting them from coming, right? So what are those barriers that miss making people do something else rather than come here? And i think that’s really actually across the board what you want to find out and that’s incredibly challenging because people don’t know what they don’t want. So it’s very hard for them to tell you what they’re looking for, why they chose something else, exactly, or its group or a college why they chose it. Okay, so how do you start to get to this s o that’s? Really? Where the art meets the science it’s really that’s when you have to really sit down and create a solid methodology, and what that means is you really need to thaw. I almost think about what you’re trying to get first and work your way backwards. So if i’m trying to understand, you know what is really driving? Ah, consumer, not to go to our side and go to a football game instead really try to break that down in a way that gets sort of a roundabout way to get to them. You would never ask them. Why are you going to the football game rather than the recital? You’re trying to understand it a deeper level? What is that that makes them feel fulfilled? What is it that makes them feel happy with their free time? And then you have to do a lot of the back work to fill in those gaps. This is very esoteric. It’s. We call them leaps there you really have? Tio i almost asked around the question and look at that negative space in a way, and then make those connections to understand what’s missing. Okay, so all right, so now you’ve got your internal constituents, your external constituents. You’ve made some leaps. In judgment, there must be some kind of testing of what of the leaps that you’ve made, and the the early conclusion that you’re starting to draw? Absolutely. And this is when you bring it all together. So as you said, we spoke internally. We understood what was going there. We understand what’s going on in the outside world. And then now you need to bring it together and say, okay, what makes sense here if we have x and y parameters internally and this is what success looks like? And then this is the opportunity that we’re seeing in the outside world. How do we marry the two? How do we make a solution that makes sense given constraints, opportunities, but the organization and then what we see, as you know that that really juicy white space in the outside trying to bridge this gap you are between opportunity and on reality. Exactly. Okay, and so a lot of times, what will happen is you might have you might find these incredibly lofty, wonderful opportunities out in the world. And then what ends up happening is you do have to bring them down to earth based on what’s, actually. Possible on then. So there’s a process of testing on then what? What’s the end result of all this that’s a great question. Another one? Yeah, two out of twenty five. So it can take the shape of any number of things so it might end up being just a brief, you know, a word documentary, power point dahna document or it could be something that’s a little bit more of emmanuel, but essentially, what you’re giving is a set of guidelines. So, you know, you you should recount the journey that you’ve taken with the client so they can see how do we get here? You know, what does that look like? And then once you’ve told that story, you outlined things like, ok, what is our positioning mission vision statement? What does it look like when we apply that to our pr? What does that look like when we apply that to our visual identity? How do we talk about ourselves? All of these sorts of sort of guidelines to help you talk about that strategy that you’ve created? How do we talk about ourselves in terms of actual words and maybe stories that we tell or or things like that? Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s, all those executions i talked about at the beginning of our conversation. You know, what is advertising look like? What is marketing look like? Not from a here is a an ad, but thank you. Here are here’s a type of language you should be using here. The types of colors you should be using. The tone, the personality, all of these things that affect the way someone might interpret your brand. How do you feel that, uh, musical performance overlaps with with the work that you’re doing? How does that inform your work? Well, i would say that generally speaking toe work and brand, you just have to be curious. Keep your eyes open, be interested in a lot of different things because you have to make a lot of esoteric connections all the time. So music is just one of those other things that sort of opens your eyes and ears and fingers and a very different way exactly. And share what? What it is that you love about the work that doings. Clearly, you enjoy it very much. Very passionate about it. What? What is it that moves you? About what you’re doing, you know it, it’s it’s incredibly interesting because you are studying people and you’re studying societies and how people feel about things and make decisions, you know, ultimately, companies really are creating products and services for a changing world, and that means that you have to study the world and study interactions and connection and what you love about all that it’s incredibly interesting to be a part of and does the nature of the business is you’re always working on a different type of industry and a different type of consumer. So you’re always learning, you know, deeply about a lot of different types of things, thanks very much for being a guest, not here. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdowell at clark mcdowell dot com right now we take a break, and when we come back tony’s take two about plant e-giving as part of your fund-raising team. And then scott koegler returns and he and i are going to talk about content marketing. Stay with me. You couldn’t do anything to getting dink dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him! Nothing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team i’ve got there five strategies for using planned giving to help other parts of your fund-raising there’s no reason that plan giving should be silo or blackbox. It should be supporting all your different fund-raising methods on you will fund, for instance, when you’re meeting a planned e-giving prospect, certainly you want to know ahead of time whether they participate in the annual fund and if they have been giving annually, you want to thank them and if it’s appropriate asked them for an increased gift to the annual fund if they’re not participating annually. It’s appropriate to ask why? Maybe there’s objections that you can help to overcome and and find a new annual donor that’s one that’s one way of helping the annual fund corporate support, maybe corporate sponsorship if you know in advance or you learn in the meeting, that person works for a company asking about the possibility of corporate sponsorship. Not that they would be the decision maker, but maybe they’ll make the introduction to who the decision maker is and that entree is always valuable now than being strictly a cold call to that office. So there are lots of ways that plan giving khun support other types of fund-raising i’ve got more ideas on my block. The post is called planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team and that’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty ninth of march, the thirteenth show of the year. Where did march go before we bring scott on? I want to send more live listener love we’ve got guangzhou, china and nokia, finland and porta vallarta, mexico. Now, if i can figure out if we can identify those cities, how come it’s united kingdom? Why is that? We don’t even know the country and uk? Yeah, you well show you irish english, we don’t know what i’m going to say you’re you’re welsh because that’s the least likely so welcome from wales and if you’re not in wales, why is your what is your identity, your location being masked? We don’t want your street address, but certainly country would be nice, scott koegler welcome, i’m doing terrific, scott koegler we know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it and p tech news, dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor, and this month we’re talking about content marketing what do we mean? Marketing? Yeah, what do we mean by this? You know, i actually for a different name for that, i call it authority marketing because it’s really, you know, you’re trying to, uh, trying to put for information about things that you know about your so you’re asserting your authority and you’re letting the people that you talk to, hopefully that read, whatever it is you’re doing, i know that you are authoritative on then the short part of that is that you’re not really selling, although, you know, being an authority and something means that hopefully people will come to you when they need answers and when they need services and products, i see that that’s what we’re talking about, okay, authority marking is a little more more descriptive and and what would a, uh, what types of things would non-profit want to be demonstrating authority in? Well, you know, the short answer there is the things that the non-profit is about so the cause the methodologies they’re using again any anything that they that they know about so that’s kind of across the board for non-profits and also for-profit type organizations. But non-profits can talk about just all the things that they do. So it’s, you know, it’s putting forth your message in a non marketing kind of away. Okay, so you and i have talked in the past about surveying people to find out what their interests are. There might be value in doing that to find out what about your work or related to your work interests them? Sure, sure. You know, you always want to get feedback from your constituents. And sometimes you get feedback from from a survey. That’s that’s a very good way to go. You know that your percentage of respondents varies all over the place. You know, i’ve had i’ve had anywhere from one percent. Twenty percent response rate course, twenty percent is great. But it’s it’s tough to achieve. Yeah, has to be something very, very interesting to them. And you might heat, you know, so that maybe a second or third generation of your of your survey, you know, kind of homes in on those issues now, but you know, another way to get feedback on what’s interesting is to get feedback on as comments on articles that you post in a block and those you generally get significantly less percentage, but those are typically more insightful. They’re more direct, you know, you know that they’re interested in that particular topic because, well, they read the article on they’re responding to it. So it’s very good way to get get responses. Now you have an article at n p tech news dot com, which says that only we have a number of articles, of course, a couple you do, but this one specifically says that sixty nine percent of non-profits are not blogging. Yeah isn’t in that stunning in this age of every you know, every schoolkid has a blogger and, you know, uh, it’s tough to imagine that, you know, almost, uh, almost three quarters, certainly two thirds of non-profits are not putting out a block, so, you know, i won’t say shame on them, but shame on well and our listeners are consistent with that. One of the poll questions i ask before the show is is your non-profit blogging at least. Twice a month that’s not even very common, but i made it a low threshold twice a month and seventy one percent said no interest. Only fourteen percent said yes, the other fourteen percent they didn’t know. So this is very consistent, actually with with what your article is just within a couple of points dahna way believe that the block is a good place for all this content. How do you do get started with your block? If you’re in that sixty nine or seventy one percent is not doing it. I will say that it’s not surprising that the number is so high because even though the technology for putting together a blogger is really easy and really available and even free and i’ll talk about the specifics in just seconds, the time to do the blog’s is a very scarce commodity. You no way talk about operations and and events and all the things that have to go into a non-profit and there are a couple of things that are critical to writing a block one is the time to write the second thing is the ability to write, you know, cogent phrases and just, you know makes things that are right, things that are interesting on getting somebody to actually be consistent. So those three things are, you know, probably the killer’s toe actually producing a block on a consistent basis. So that’s one thing that’s this very difficult, overcome and that’s why a lot of organizations or maybe something not as many as we might think, actually hyre out there blogging, and they get professional writers or managers to produce content for them and manage the the website, the block, whatever it’s called and send for them, you could try soliciting content from your constituents could, whether they’re the people benefiting from your work. Or maybe if you’re a bigger organization, maybe some of your employees can contribute. I don’t have to be writing right could be video absolutely there’s all kinds of different blogging tools now one of them and we’ll just kind a segway into this. Yeah, you know what? We talked earlier about pinterest that was a couple months ago on dh pinterest, you know, i mean it’s really a blocking platform, but it is a way to put out dahna typically images or videos of of information that’s of interest to the organization and to the constituents. Another one that you well, let’s, step on pinterest, pinterest is not all that time consuming. Because you can be. You can upload your own content, but you can also be out on the web. You find something that’s interesting, relevant to your work. You you just pin it to a board using the earl. Great it’s it’s. Very quick and easy. The good thing about it is that it it keeps it can keep a consistent exposure. Uh, that if there’s a negative, i would say that it’s it really is not generally original content. It’s something that you you found and shared, right? Right. But it’s it’s bad, but it’s not really blogging, right? No. Right. But it’s jemaine to your work. And could be interesting to your constituents who are interested in the work that you do, right. And what you just said there is, you know, being interesting to constituents. That’s really the key to any of these you’re you’re content curator of of content, and you become an authority, hopefully within your within your sphere, right? I think, you know, tend to touch on that authority issue if you’re if you’re pinning some content that’s not your own, uh, that maybe, you know, kind of the reverse of becoming the authority. Okay, you’re a curator and that’s a good thing. So you’re bringing things of interest, but you haven’t really added to the authorities factor. So somebody who’s actually interested in what you pinned is just going to click on that pin and jump to the site. That weird originated, so i’d be careful of their, you know, but it is a place to get exposure. All right? Let’s, talk about the block you had. You have some suggestions about getting started with blogging? Yeah. One of them you talked about was was tumbler and tumbler is, i guess, it’s a version of interest and that it’s, highly visual. Um, but you actually can post content there. You can also curate it and post. So on it’s a free it’s, a free resource. You could just create a account you can upload pictures of your events. You can upload text about whatever it is that you’re doing. So so that’s. Ah, relatively easy way to get in. It’s, it’s, inexpensive and fur and supposes cheap on dh free i think? Yeah. Okay. And that’s t u m b l r write the word tumbler without the okay. Okay, so, yeah, i would suggest that maybe uneasy. Wait for an organisation to get in where there really isn’t any there’s. No overhead. It’s, quick and easy, todo. Now, wordpress is very popular, but that’s that’s maura, traditional type written blogged, right. Uh, correct. Right. Word press is probably the white, most rightly used blogging platform, although there are plenty of others but that that could be for you can actually do a you can set up your own wordpress block account by going tio it’s. Um, we’re press dot com, actually. And you could get the free option and start with that. And so you can set that up and you can actually just start to write articles. You can write the articles right within wordpress and just click save and it’s published so it’s very, very simple todo right there there are elaborate wordpress blog’s but you don’t have to shoot me not to start. You certainly shouldn’t start there. You start seeing i would say start with just the three one and go from there add content had pictures. If you have videos, you could do, those two do. Although the free site has restrictions on, you know how much you can actually upload and save to the site. Okay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we’ll talk a little about maybe creating cem video, that’s, that’s, simple to do, because that could be compelling authority marketing. Now i’ve had to change. The name of the segment accommodates got from content marketing now already marketing that’s. Ok, i’m flexible, you flexible, dammit! All right, we could take a break. You stay with us, scott will, and i hope you do, too. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com that’s, monte t m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oh! Welcome back. Tokyo, japan, fukuoka and metallica, japan welcome konnichi wa. Very nice to have you with us. New york, new york and memphis, tennessee live listener love and our listener in the united kingdom. We sussed you out. You tried to hide, but we learned that you are in manchester, england. So not welsh after all, which you may be pleased to hear that you’re not welsh. Well, you could be welsh, but listening from manchester but probably not. So we found you despite your efforts. Teo cloak on. Be deceptive. All right, scott koegler let’s, talk a little about video because video, you know, you and i have talked about this before, it doesn’t have to be high production phones that take shoot video are so common you could arm your employees or your other constituents with the phone, maybe at an event or maybe just on their own. This could be good authority, content authority, marketing, absolutely. And it’s uh, sometimes actually, most of the time, it turns out to be very current because the videos, as you just mentioned a lot of time, shot with their with their cellular cell phones with their smartphones, and we’re even just any kind of digital camera now takes video. Uh, of course, the smartphones. You, khun, take the video posted almost live on, you know, the face of people like to see themselves and people that they know so particularly had events. I saw one organization that recently kind of they turned around the old thing about putting the the, you know, the throwaway camera on the table? Yeah. And they put a card on the table that says, use your cell phone, uh, shoot a video and uploaded here, and they got i think they were just overwhelmed. They think they’ve got a couple of hundred up loads. So, you know, that’s good and bad, right? How do you use and select the ones that you wanted? But it did. It proved the point that it was a very popular option and something that people would engage with immediately. So just kind of take that idea further. What do you do with that? Um, you can either download those those videos and create a kind of a montage using your own software, or you don’t have to do that. You can actually use tools within youtube to, uh to mash up your videos on create, you know, kind of an overview doesn’t have to be ah long or complex or even, you know, two super high quality just paste a bunch of pieces together, right? You to diligently, of course, youtube has editing editing tools right now. There’s a sight that we know one listener maria simple likes because we know maria because she’s, a regular contributor and you talked about this site almost a year ago on a moto for video. Exactly an emoto is great. Um and, uh, i mean, what it does is it allows you to use both video and still images and create a you know, we’ll call it a video, and it actually is a video. Even if you have images there, uh, there’s basically photos, and it does very complex transitions. You can overlay text on it. You can overlay background music on becomes very engaging. So, you know, in a matter of probably ten minutes, you can produce one of these things. Yeah. Maria maria has been using it for a non-profit that she volunteers with, but she heard about it from you first. And like i said now, it’s been close to a year she’s using it all right? And we’re just, you know, a free tool that’s simple to use and, you know, sort of quick and dirty video that can be can be moving or informative, right, exactly an authoritative and that, again, just the good kind of go back to that word that’s really, what we’re trying to do here is to increase the believability that you’re just you’re not just somebody out there trying to raise a few bucks for, for who knows what you know, but you are actually an organization. You have a purpose, you know what you’re talking about, and it gives the people that you’re communicating with something teo grab onto teo to associate with and maybe even to, you know, get it personally and personal involvement with well, there you go, that’s that’s what this is all that we were trying to engage, we’re trying to have a connection, a dialogue so that you become affiliated with the work well aware of the work and then hopefully become affiliated with the organization, maybe as a volunteer, maybe as a donor, maybe just as a spokesperson and an advocate on the web right? Absolutely. And you know right back to the blogging section. And you mentioned, you know, get some of your constituents, your volunteers, whatever to to contribute content. If you have a relatively large organisation, you have a much better chance of getting, you know, five or ten individuals who are able to contribute something. If you could get them each to contribute something every two months, even you’d have a you have something to become consistent with. Consistency is one of those things that really counts. Okay, on dh there’s, your there’s, your sort of army of advocates and and volunteers. I mean, you may never make that. You may never meet the people, but if they’re contributing content once in a while, they’re supporting your work. Exactly. Exactly. We did have a correction for you, scott. The forward press sight is its wordpress dot or ge. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, i got sign up. Dot wordpress, dot com uh, so if you want to go directly to the sign up, but you’re right, wordpress dot or ge is where you go first. I am sorry. Okay? That’s okay. Okay. No, no, no. All right, but sign up. Dot wordpress dot com. But if you want to go directly toward press and learn more about it, that would be wordpress dot org’s. Okay, now you what? You’re trying to be an authority buy-in and i really messed up well, but i want to help you. It’s xero there only nine thousand dollars will do good. Only nine thousand people listening. Well, no. Nobody listens to this show. So it’s not gonna matter. It doesn’t matter what you say. Any closing thoughts you want to leave people with in their authority? Marketing? Um, i would say it’s it’s something that really people are hungry for, even though there’s plenty to read on the web. Uh, you know, the old thing, you know, you can’t publish anything. It is untrue. It’s untrue. On the web, right? Yeah, of course. But i would say just along with that, if you if you plan to go into this one of your main goals, should be to be consistent and to do it on an ongoing basis, you know, putting up one post every three months just is not really gonna do anything. It’s. Probably worse than doing nothing. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news at n p tech news. Dot com and scott remind us what your twitter ideas it’s xero scott koegler course spelling koegler is not easy. So it’s seo t k o e g l e r all right, scott, thank you very much, but with this, we’ll have you back next month. Thanks doing my pleasure. Thank you. More live listener love, new york, new york, memphis, tennessee and richardson, texas live love to all of you hope you’ll be with me next week when we’ll be talking about talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot is a consultant in cross generational communication. Ines boomer boss in a general i worker gen x boss and a boomer worker how about a general i fundraiser and a boomer or boomer plus donor? We’ll talk about strategies for working across the generations we’re all over the social web you can’t make a click without sparkle adoro testa, i hope i’m saying smacking your hard head backing your smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio that’s what i’m trying to say anyway, you can’t make a click without that. Ah four square, for instance, are you? On foursquare, if you are, then let’s connect because i’d love to see where you’re eating your breakfast in your dinners. I want to know what’s coming up before the show sign up for our weekly insider email alerts on the facebook page. There was a time when i had to say facebook, dot com forward slash tony martignetti non-profit radio that was, those are my dark days in social media. Now, i just say on the facebook page, and we all presume that you know where to find that our creative producer. Yes, we do have one is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor shows social media is barbara jean, a walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope to be with me next week. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Talking, alternative broadcasting talking alternative dot com on friday, one to two p, m eastern. I didn’t think you could do. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz get him. Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect. No more it’s time. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Told you.

Planned Giving Is Part Of Your Fundraising Team

Image courtesy of lumaxart on Flickr
Image courtesy of lumaxart on Flickr
Fundraising is a team sport and Planned Giving should be a team player.

Whether you’re a devoted Planned Giving officer or a solo fundraiser occasionally talking to a PG prospect, you can support the bigger effort in several ways.

Ask for annual appeal gifts. When you meet a prospect or donor, or have a “meaningful contact” of any sort, thank them for their annual gift. If appropriate, ask for an increased gift. For the person who doesn’t participate, ask why. Perhaps you can overcome their objections to giving annually.

Ask for help with corporate giving, corporate sponsorship and foundation giving. If your prospect is connected, inquire about possibilities. If they’re with a company–and after coordination with the appropriate gift officer, if there is one–ask about corporate support. As you prepare for a meaningful contact with someone who sits on a foundation board or has a private foundation, consider what might be a good funding match and raise that possibility with your prospect.

Share relationship info back at the office. A meaningful contact almost always yields new information: unknown relationship; a new grandchild; a home for sale; recent illness; a stock windfall or loss; business news; extended vacation; a new car. Whatever you find out gets entered into your relationship management database and shared with those who need to know. Data points are valuable to relationships and you need to preserve them.

Share info with administrative services staff. This won’t apply at smaller shops. If you expect a transfer of stock by DTC or cash by wire, let the staff know in advance what to look out for. DTC transfers come without easily recognizable identifying information, like the donor’s name. If your staff knows to expect 50 shares of Apple, you’ll make their job much easier when it arrives. Wired cash comes with identification, but let those supporting your work know you’re thinking of them. I guarantee they’ll thank you.

Share your knowledge. If you’re a Planned Giving pro, lead in-house training. You want as many people as possible leading you to potential prospects, so explain over a brown bag lunch who makes a good prospect and how to ask if suspects have included the organization in their long-term plans. Train other gift officers, program officers and receptionists–every person who has contact with potential donors.

Your Planned Giving work should support the entire fundraising team.

Nonprofit Radio, March 22, 2013: IRS Sale In Aisle 403(b) & Compensation Clarity

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Evan Giller
Evan Giller
Evan Giller: IRS Sale In Aisle 403(b)

Evan Giller, a founding member of the law firm of Giller & Calhoun, explains the IRS’s 50% off-the-penalty sale for 403(b) retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code and this is the year to fix the problems. We’ll talk about the common mistakes and what to do.

 

 

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan
Gene Takagi & Emily Chan: Compensation Clarity

Our regular legal contributors, Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group (NEO) answer these questions: how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if comp is excessive? What’s the automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t disclose benefits? Plus, we’ll do a board role play. Let’s see who chairs the meeting. (This is from the Nonprofit Radio vintage archive. Last October was a very good month.)


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You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Here is the link to the audio for the show: 134: IRS Sale In Aisle 403(b) & Compensation Clarity. You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you know me, i’m your aptly named host it’s friday, march twenty second i very much hope that you were with me last week don’t let me hear that you missed gary vaynerchuk. Gary shared insights and inspiration from his body of work and his book the thank you economy and amy sample ward and i talked about kindness, criticism and on honest online conversations this week i rs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explains the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix those problems. We’ll talk about the common mistakes and what to do. Also compensation clarity a regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if comp is excessive? What’s the automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t disclose benefits plus, we’re going to do aboard role play, and we’ll see who chairs that meeting. This is from the non-profit radio vintage collection last october was a very good month between the guest today on tony’s take to my podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy that i do monthly fund-raising fundamentals, some details about that, my pleasure now to welcome evan giller he’s, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun he’s worked on employee benefit plan issues, including retirement and executive compensation plans for over twenty years. He has extensive experience in plan, design and compliance and is a contributing author to the four o three b answer book. I’m very glad that his expertise bring us two brings him to the studio. Evan giller, welcome well, thankyou, tony, and very happy to be here. Pleasure. We’re all our lawyers, all lawyers and compliance issues today, but i’m going to keep you all of you on the straight, narrow, um, let’s start very basic so that we know that everybody i can figure out where they have a four o three b or they don’t. What is a four o three? B plan k so four o three b plan is a retirement plan that is only available to tax exempt organizations, not for-profit organizations or teo governmental organizations that are that are educational organizations like k through twelve public schools and state local universities and colleges. Okay, so the the reason that four o three b is in the code is because those types of organizations were deemed to need a very simple, fairly cheap way of providing retirement benefits to their employees. Now a tax exempt a charity could have, and we’re our audiences. The five oh one. See threes, no small and midsize charities. They could have some other kind of retirement plan for their employees. That that’s. Exactly correct. Until recently. Well, when i said recently, probably about the last twenty years, these types of organizations could not have a four. Oh, one k, but that’s not true anymore. They can have a four. Oh, one k as well or what’s known as a qualified for a one a plan. And i will keep the jargon to a minimum. A surgeon general has i know. Okay, is the rule but the ah that’s. A plan that although it’s under different section of the code looks kind of the same. It allows the employer to put in money on behalf of the employees accumulate amount that they could get when they when they were tired. Okay, so we have the former one case before oh, for a one. A cz. But we’re talking today about the four. Oh, three bees. Okay, what is the problem with some? I think maybe lots ofthe four o three b retirement plans. Right. So if i can i give you a little history here, please. On dh. We could go back far into the depths of the sun. Not too far from the nine hundred right? Stick by nineteen. Yes. Yes. But these plans were set up originally because it was perceived that college college professors could not retired because they don’t have enough teo enough money to retire on. And so these plans were set up, much like individual plans. Sort of like ira’s today. Individual annuity contracts were issued to the participants in the plans to the college professors. Ultimately, they were expanded to cover all five. Twenty three’s and these, you know, governmental educational organizations. And they were very lightly regulated for many years. And i should say that there are really two important regulators were talking about. As you said, we’re talking about the irs. We’re also talking about the department of labor and department labor also regulates these plans. And in the last since since nineteen, eighty six and on both of these organizations have decided that the four three v world was too big, too much like the wild west, but too big and needed to be increasingly regulated. Okay, so the plans became popular so popular that regulators got concerned about them. That’s, right? They became large, you know, with large for large tax exempt have giant plans on dso. The regulators did get concerned about them and wanted to make sure that they were being operated properly. Okay, because the ultimate concern is that we want to have money for the retirees that are participating in these plans. Exactly. And the other concern is that the three irises also two rules thes rules. Are they so the quid pro quo for the tax benefit that you get out of these plants? And the irs wanted to make sure that these rules were being followed. Properly. Okay, so rules are not being followed, and we have ah, we’ll get to this. But we have ah, we have a period where you can save some money on penalties for not following the rules. But what? What’s? The main problem is the, er, the plan’s. Right? So, okay, that’s, you and i introduce it, but you talk us through it. So the overarching issue here is that until two thousand nine, under the under the irs is rules. These plans weren’t required to have a document, a written plan that they had to follow, and a lot of these plans had they didn’t not have anything. But they had very sketchy documents because actually on the department of labor side, you were supposed to have a document as well. But nobody was looking too closely at it. And this is a document that it describes how your plan is goingto operate, right? So the document is you very often very detailed and it’s exactly how the planets to us to operate and also contains all the iris requirements. So in two thousand nine, thie iris the i recited set a deadline that by two thousand, by january first, two thousand nine every four three b plan with very narrow exceptions had to have this written document. This is the increased regulation that you were talking about it we’ll start to see. Okay, right. You had that january deadline, right? January two thousand nine deadline, right? And actually, in december of two thousand eight, justice everyone was scrambling to complete this deadline. The iris actually given extension to the entity. That’s. Nice. So it was a busy time for you when you got then you got eleven months. Reprieve. It was a fantastically exciting moment. Yeah, okay. Yeah, well, you were able to enjoy your holiday. It was in two thousand eight, although it wasn’t looking like you were going to exactly. Okay, so did they wait until december thirty first? They know one thousand deo, but was close. It was it was in the first week in december. It wass e-giving months. They like to suspense. Yeah. Yeah. So the but that deadline the end of two thousand nine came and went and held. And so all four o three b plants again. There are some very narrow exceptions. Had to have this written document adopted a formally by the organization by december thirty first, two thousand nine if you didn’t do that, you’re out of compliance. Your plan theoretically, the plan could be deemed to be failed failed very bad result. A failed plan means that all the money in it all of the contracts in that plan will be taxable. The contracts are all the all your employees that’s, right? Ok, that’s, right? So the so the danger of being out of compliance is what what’s what’s your employees going to suffer, they’re going to have a very bad tax consequence, and they go and they’re going to look to you as the employer, and they’re going to say, why did this happen? So the irs doesn’t like to invoke this nuclear penalty on plans very much disqualifying the disqualifying, pluck us, right? And so for a number of years, they have worked on a program that allows plans, and not just for three plants, but all kinds of retirement plans to correct errors so they don’t get disqualified. All right, so you were supposed to have been been had your plan document by december of two thousand nine, but since then they’ve been working. Tio get people into compliance because they know there are a lot that that didn’t make that deadline. That’s, right? Ok. And so they have said that the to the extent that you have failed to adopt, if you that you failed to adopt your plan on time by that deadline now att the end of last year they came out with a program the irs did. That said you khun submit ah, a plan document to the irs. Now pay a penalty and you will be absolved of having failed to meet the original deadline. Yes, you’re absolved. You brought into the fold. You’ll come to the flock, we will absolve you, but you have to pay a penalty. You are deemed to have to be in compliance. We have to pay a penalty. Okay. Okay. And that gets us to the fifty percent off no sale. So in two thousand and thirteen, if you have that one mistake and you could have other mistakes. But if you that one mistake that you veiled the plan document failed to adopt the plan document of time and you go in through this program, the irs is cutting the penalties in half for the course of the year. There’s. Your fifty percent off sale. It’s a sale. Okay, wei have just about a minute or so before before we take a little break. What? What needs to be? Well, first of all, you have to have your document, and then it has to be the documents to be correct. Is that right? Well, the actually when you go through this program, the irs is not going to give you an opinion as to whether the documents correct that’s. Another disney that’s. Another the process that we can talk about. You hear the irs just wants to see you have your organization has formally adopted the document. Okay, okay, all right. Why don’t we take that break? And when we come back, evan giller stays with me. He’s, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun. We’re talking about the irs sale in aisle four o three b. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance home? 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The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney welcome back, i wish i could send live listener love, but we are pre recorded its a few weeks before march twenty seconds. I can’t send live listener love, but you know that we do love our live listeners. Evan, you and i are talking about i’m goingto introduce something to save you from jargon jail because you probably wouldn’t set it this way. I like to i like, i like this the v c p for e p c r s is now we’re talking about the v c p for epi crs way r and i’m glad i didn’t say that you wouldn’t have because your prison well, i mean, sorry, practicing attorney or not, you know, jargon jail is open for you and would have had quite an impact when the board of bar examiner’s or the new york state bar association found out about your felony jargon jail. So i’m doing it v c p for epc rs what does that mean? Okay, so those air to acronyms that that describe the this correction program that we’re talking about s o a p c r s is the is the acronym for the overarching program the employees plan compliance resolution system. Thank you. S oh, every wrote that down, but known affectionately as cpc arrest everybody. And v c p is the one of the components of it voluntary correction program and that’s important that that one, though, is important too. Spend a little time what those words mean because it means that you’re turning yourself into the irs. You have found an error, and you’re turning yourself into the irs to correct that error for a reduced amount of a fee. But it’ll be lower than if they caught you. Right? Fifty percent lower, you know, know that something else is fifty percent. Is the sale on the v c p fee for this year? For that? For that non non compliance ever that we talked about? Okay, but in general document, right, but forgetting about this year forgetting with percent off if the irs catches you in violation, it’s going to cost you more than if you turn yourself in now. Really? That’s the basic theory. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um all right. So we know that the dangers if you’re if you haven’t adopted your plan document and there and i realize there are other things that could be wrong with your four three beer. We’re gonna have time to talk about those two. You have top five, evans top five, but so far now we’re just talking about not having adopted your plan document by the two thousand nine deadline. Um, your employees will face taxation. You’ll be embarrassed. Your planned disqualified there’s penalties for that? Of course, if the irs finds it. Okay, so what do we do now? If we we haven’t adopted our plan document. How do we enter this thiss rehabilitation program? So the irs has come out with a kit, actually, a compliance kit on blast. Three weeks or so. That takes you through all of the steps that you need to follow in order to get into this program and submit and get. Okay. And this is your doing. This is an outpatient, right? You’re not inpatient rehabilitation, right? That it’s? Yeah, that you basically are it’s all by the male, you know, you send in a document, sent it. But there are a bunch of forms that you that you need to fill out on dh sometimes, you know, you might find that you there kind. Of complicated there, an irs speak and you may want a little help but basically it’s a set of forms that you sent in with your document on proof that your plan has been adopted. Okay, now, what needs to be in this document, this plant? What is in what the parts yet so for three b document has to contain, at the very least, all of the requirements in that code section for four o three b flat. So what does that include that includes limitations on contributions that the irs provide requires? In other words, the irs says you can’t put in a zillion dollars for some rich. I mean, you the employee the employer can play okay. Limits on contributions. Ok? And those of of your listeners who are friendly with four three plans no, actually, one of the one of the most valuable and appealing aspects of it. His salary reduction contributions by employees where you put in money on a salary on it before tax basis into the plan. Just like four. Oh, one k plan and their limits on that as well. And those very strict limits on how much, how much input in direct, which in two thousand thirteen and seventeen thousand five hundred dollars okay, there are requirements that everybody in the organization has an opportunity to make those contributions on it before tax basis it’s called, and i know i’m sorry, i may be skinning a songs you define your jargon, i maybe yes, i’m you’re just skirting just but you won’t, right? You won’t be entered. So it’s called the universal availability rule, which means that, as sort of a zit says sounds that everybody in the organization with again narrow exceptions has to be allowed to make these contributions on it before tax basis. You can’t, they can choose. So this is who you invite to participate in your for three d plan, right? And you have to let them know that they’ve got that opportunity. You can’t keep it a secret on, believe it or not, i’ve seen some cases where they just the employer hasn’t told employees that they’re able to do that. Okay, so there’s that there’s their requirements for taking money out of the plan. They’re called minimum distribution requirements. When you get to be aged seventy and a half, you have to take out. A certain amount, because the iris really doesn’t want you dying with that money to pass it on to the next generation, same age at which you have to start your mandatory required distribution for ira that’s. Exactly right, it’s the same rule. Okay, it seems okay, there are there are other types of what it called nondiscrimination rules. You can’t give a lot of money to the top management a t the on give a lot less money to the rank and file give way give i’m sorry. I mean, make contributions to the plan at a higher level to the top management versus the rank and file. Okay, so they’re not discrimination. Discrimination on exactly can’t discriminate in favor of highly compensated people. Okay, so because this sounds like a very interesting. Now you draft these documents i’m way d’oh, d’oh! It’s good that there are people who enjoy the details of this it’s interesting to me, but i don’t have to write them so but what has to be in there is interesting. What? What? What are the little pieces? Should be so one of the things and this sort of bleeds over into you know things. That can go wrong. I mean, one of the ways these one of the things that you want to put in this document is let let’s say your plan says, were we the employees? They actually the employer i was going to make contributions on behalf of employees of five percent of compensation? That’s a typical plan or ten percent of compensation? You need to define compensation very, very carefully, it’s an area where there are a lot of errors, so some some places don’t want to include let’s say, bonuses some employers don’t want include bonuses some don’t want include overtime in the school world. They don’t want to pay perhaps coaches who get extra money for for coaching. So there is a very easy it’s, very easy to make an error in the way you write out your compensation definition, and then your plan is wrong you’re you’re making contributions on the wrong definition of company, okay? And as you said earlier, the irs is not passing on the correctness or the adequacy of your plan document under this under this correction plan under this period that we have, they’re just making sure that you have a plan. Adopted that’s, right? That under this very narrow piece that we’re talking about now, if you find other errors, let’s say you have the wrong definition of compensation, for instance, and you’ve discovered this. You can go in now, you can go in too. V c p okay, and you can say, hey, we found a mistake. We want to correct it in the correction programme for voluntary correction program under e p c r s and we we don’t, you know, we know we’ve made a mistake, we want to fix it and we’re going to fix it, and then you pay a fee on dh you tell the iris this is how we’re going to fix it now maybe you fix it by giving some people some additional money because you’re definitely comp it definition of compensation said that that you actually should have put in more money, for your definition was too low. There’s added compensation, which means added contribution by the employer correct, right? But now the fee that you paid this is not eligible for the fifty percent off correct only for adopting your plan that’s, right by well, failing to adopt the plan and correcting it. Failing to adopted on time, which was december thirty first, two thousand. Thie only place where you got that little sale. Okay, right? Let’s. See, how long does this does? V c p for the for the plan. Adoption correction. How long does that last? Is it just this year, or do we know? Well, dcp will be indefinite. Okay, cp, that fifty percent is just this year, but they but the process of going into v c p that’s an indefinite program that will be open for a long time. And and actually, there are other programs that the irs they’re going to know that it has said that they’re going to introduce that will work with the cp that will affect forthe brovey plans that this basically this area is evolving. Okay, okay. What is this? You get fifty percent off the penalty. What is the penalty based on how much is it? The penalty is based on the size of the number of employees that you have in the plan. So there’s a there’s a schedule? Um, and it starts at the very low end. It’s? About seven hundred fifty dollars, for really small plans. The penalty penalty. That’s the file gods called the filing fee. They could go into v c p but the penalty and it goes all. The way up to about twenty five thousand dollars if you’ve got a giant plan of ten thousand employees or more. Okay, so it’s based on the number of employees in your plan, is how much you’ll pay for filing fee euphemistically a filing fee, but you’ll get half off that if you’re if you’re adopting your plan newly in two thousand thirteen. Thirty right? If he’s missed the deadline and and this and you do that this year, okay? And that’s, your only issue, you know, if you’re going in with two issues, you know or three issues he found what? Look, i made a couple of other mistakes then that’s fulfill rate, but oh, you can’t piggyback you can’t pick you. You can slide in getting the plan adoption and then add a couple and quietly you’ve got a lot of other errors in quietly, you know? You know, tony have to wake up pretty early in morning to fool the irs. What? You okay? So suppose you adopt your plan, get the fifty percent off on that. And then later on, two months later or two weeks later, then you found other errors in your plan. You could do that, but actually it’s no point, because because the way the cp works and this is a good thing, you don’t pay anymore. If you’ve got one error with exception of this half off thing, you don’t pay anymore if you’ve got one hour or twelve hours, so you may as well just get him all fixed. Oh, so you’ll still get the fifty percent off on the plan. Adoption? Well, the penalty, but you’ll pay full freight on the other. Well, except that what will come out to is what if let’s say, if you go in, you failed to adopt and you’ve got two of the mistakes you’re just trying to game the system. You are, you are. But i guess they think the irs is a step ahead, right? It’s kind of embarrassing teo to sort of sum it up. The only way you get the fifty percent office is if you go in without one mistake that you failed to adopt the plan on time. That one mistake, that one was that the only way you get fifty percent off he’s going with two mistakes, you don’t have to pay the right, but what? Happens if you come in later with the second most? Well, then you’re paying one and a half times, right? You paying the fifty percent and then you’re paying a full fee. So why would you do that? You follow him saying so in other words, the if you if you buy for kate at the way you’re suggesting, then you’re paying fifty percent now and then you’re paying one hundred percent later. If you do both together now, you’re only paying on the feast get the penalty schedule is the same for the different. Oh, i thought maybe they were different now exgagement for different types of errors. No. Same. Okay, so okay. They thought of that. Okay. Um evan gillers, a founding member of the law firm of giller. G i l l e r and calhoun c l h o u n you’ll find them at giller calhoun dot com. Sounds like you should be out in the wild west. I don’t know oklahoma or wyoming. Just that. Calhoun. Well, you know, calhoun happens to be based in denver, so you’re not that far off. Really? Yeah. So this is you have two offices in new york. And denver okay, let’s spend time talking about some of the other errors that that maybe in your plan, you have top five and i think we’ve alluded to some of them, but we’ll make them make them explicit. What are let’s, let’s? Just get started. What what’s? The most common error that you see in in four three b plan. So you know, the most common error that we see again without without getting too deep into the weeds on that? Don’t worry, i’ll stop. You will stop, right? Okay, i’ll get lost, and then i won’t let you lose others. I said earlier that there are two regulators. One is the irs. One is the department of labor and department of labor. Is those those people who are at all involved retirement plans? We’ll know the dreaded a risa word. Arisa is the statute that governs were governed in play that you are, say, e r i s retirement income security act. Very excellent. Okay, okay, so the actual the most common error that we find actually isn’t a risa era and not an internal revenue code error and it’s worth mentioning because it’s a common error and it’s a serious error, okay? And that is when if you have a plan that allows employees to put money in on us on an elective deferral of salary reduction basis before tax basis like we were talking about before you have an obligation to send that money to the insurance company or the mutual fund for using mutual funds very quickly. You can’t sit on that money and let it sit in your bank account and say, you know, i’ll get to it in a couple of weeks. Really, even a couple weeks is not is too long. Yes, a couple of weeks, it will almost always be too long. Yeah, and in this day and age of automatic peril zsystems the department of labor thinks that two weeks is almost you could almost never justify. Okay, so what happens is that people get a little careless sometimes, and maybe the payroll person goes on vacation or they’re just the processes aren’t aren’t in place and the money sits there, and the and the department of labor thinks that’s a bad violation. They want that money going in quickly, because when the money doesn’t go on quickly, it doesn’t. It doesn’t experience investment return it’s sitting in your bank account in your theoretically getting interest on it, a zen employer. So the deal doesn’t like that. You need to be very vigilant about getting that money to your insurance company of mutual fund. What if we’re talking about the united states department of labor? We are right where we are. What if just, you know, like you mentioned your payroll person goes on vacation one time you were you were slow because the payroll person was on vacation and when he or she came back, they’d caught the mistake. But it’s been it’s been the two week vacation because they went, you know, they went exotic, maybe south asia or something took two full weeks vacation. Now they’re back. They realize the mistake, it’s only one time is this. Is this a big deal? Well, you know, you actually it’s a great question for a couple of levels. One is we really didn’t. We didn’t talk about this. I mean, there is a we talked a lot about filing with the irs and the fee and through the vc paid. In fact, when you have small violations on the ira side there’s something called self correction where you don’t have to file violations that fit within their their self correction program. Okay, khun, just be fixed without filing and the it means you don’t have to go and you don’t need to their approval. You don’t need to pay them anything. You just fix him and and i and that’s to a certain extent true with the department of labor to in that case, i would not call it a big deal. But i would say that if you found it, you should fix sit fix. It basically means giving the interest that the participants lost in the period of time that the person was on vacation. That two weeks it’s gonna be a tiny amount of money to weeks of interest on one one contribution you gotta give. Give e-giving. Okay, let’s, let’s hit another couple. We have just a couple minutes left zoho common errors. So another error is on dh. This also goes to what needs to be in the plan. There are these limits that the irs imposes upon these plans about how much money could go in in a year you’re mentioned earlier and they’re they’re two separate limits. They kind of work together, but there’s one limit that’s the total amount that can go in as an employer contribution and an employee contribution and there’s a separate limit that could go in as an employee contribution that’s the seventeen thousand five hundred we talked about the total limit is fifty one thousand dollars oversignt pretty little bit per year. Okay, and i’m guessing that the error is miscalculation. Correct the errors, miscalculation and and then there’s also a ah limit on the amount of money of salary that you can take into account in doing the calculations. So in other words, you say ten percent of compensation you can’t consider any amount of compensation above two hundred fifty five thousand dollars, so i’m making five hundred thousand dollars kazama. You know, i’m the executive director most of that much. Almost half of that can’t be included in my contribution. Okay, we have time for just one more top five. So so another another issue is this minimum distribution issue. You know, actually, i’m gonna go really one where i’m going gonna actually go to another one, which i think is probably more important. Which is loans and hardships. Many of these plans allow participants take loans, and they you can take a loan out of your own account and you have to pay it back. General, have to pay it back over five years a little longer if it’s to buy house or a hardship distribution, which is, if you have something really bad happened to you within the rules of the irs. What the irs considers to be really bad, including medical expenses within a sir. Certain limits. If you have a casualty loss, if hurricane sandy was a good example, if you get the house bilich list and what’s the what’s, the trouble with these hardships, they’re not. So the rules for the loans and the hardships are actually quite complicated, and they are often not applied correctly. Okay, we can we can correct these, though. All through v c p the voluntary correction programme. Correct. Okay. All right. Evan giller, founding member of the law firm giller and calhoun at giller. Calhoun dot com. Evan, thank you very much for explaining this. And being a guest. It was my pleasure. Pleasure to have you. Thank you. Right now we go. Away. And when we come back, tony’s, take two, and then compensation clarity with jean takagi and emily chan will stay with me. They couldn’t do anything, including getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef hyre. Welcome back time for tony’s take two again were pre recorded this week, so i can’t send live listener love i feel bad about that. I could guess a couple, i’m sure we have listeners from china ni hao and and we’re also we certainly have listeners from tokyo a bit there live listeners from tokyo and i forgot to have tio how teo konichiwa konichiwa for our listeners in japan and taiwan excuse me about taiwan is out there also where in the u s um, north carolina, california, new jersey, new york i hope i bet you’re out there. I’ll bet you’re out there durney stick to this week i wanted just remind you that i host a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy, and that is called fund-raising fundamentals. And this month i talked to consultant rosetta thurman about thie cycle in charities that causes fundraisers to be dissatisfied with their work and ceos to be dissatisfied with their fundraisers, which leads fundraisers to bail out of jobs all to the detriment of charitable missions. Now we talk with rosette about the causes and what fundraisers khun due to break the cycle and that’s on fund-raising fundamentals? You’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll also find it on itunes, and there are links on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty second of march twelfth show of the year. I now have a vintage version of non-profit radio. This is compensation clarity with jean takagi and emily chan. Right now we have jean takagi and emily chan on the line. We have them, don’t we both excellent. Jean is principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular blogger at non-profit law block, dot com and he’s at g tak gt a k on twitter. Emily chan is an attorney at d’oh and she’s, principal contributor to the non-profit lob log she’s the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer and you can follow emily at emily chan at emily c h a n a million gene welcome back. Hi, tony. Hi, tony. Good to have you back. We’re talking this month about compensation because it seems to flow from what emily and i talked about just a couple of weeks ago, so emily, why don’t you? Why don’t you lead us into this from from last month? Sure, so are lots. So he talked about the private benefit rules at at the ad buy squeezed in a very big phrase there the preventable cruise up to the reasonable miss, and we’re going to get not this show, but basically we’re going to look at the penalty that the irish usually while imposed when they find an inappropriate benefit going. Teo insider as we talked about last week, ok, so now we’re really looking at, i guess, practically speaking, the kind of penalties that organizations should be very knowledgeable about and also very wary of so that they could follow the best practices and make sure they’re protecting their organizations. All right, you were cutting out a little bit, emily, but we were able to fix the sound quality. Just say that. Say that. Say that very, very rich and wordy phrase again from from last month that will talk more about just say that again because you cut out a little bit there. Rebuttable presumption of reasonableness. All right, we look forward to getting into that gene. What are the general guidelines? For compensation for and who are we talking about? Whose compensation are we talking about? And what of those general rules? Well, practically speaking, we’re talking about the compensation of the executives, so that would be the executive director or ceo or president, and of the cfo or treasure the organization has compensated, chief financial officer okay? And what are the rules generally, that just that it has to be fair and not excessive, that that’s practically the rule, tony so it can’t be excessive and and the way we try to judge that is we try to look at what comparable organizations air paying, and so the big question is, what is a comparable organization and what is a comparable position to compare? You know who we want to pay to another organization and what what they’re paying, let me throw something interesting at least interesting to me, and maybe you have the legal minds may not find it interesting, but what i do over here, you said it’s only for executives, but what i see in ah lot at colleges and universities, the the highest paid people there are often coaches, sports coach is like a basketball football. Coach at at a big big, you know, big name program, does this this excessive compensation apply to them? Also are on ly to the executives of the organization that’s a great question, tony. Thank you. We’ll bring you back next month. Thank you. Dream the area when we’re talking about big institutions like colleges and universities and healthcare systems and big non-profit hospital, the range of what we call disqualified persons or insiders definitely goes up. People have substantial influence over the organization or a particular segment of that organization. So football coaches will probably be drawn in into that equation when they have a huge influence on on the institution itself. Okay, there are just more general rule beside the what we call the intermediate sanction rule. Their excess benefit transaction rolls the night i go into jargon dale for that. Oh, my god. Yeah. All right. We’re gonna get to that stuff, apparently. And broader doctrines that you could get in trouble for as well. Okay. Broader than just the executive. So it’s so it’s those who can exercise ah, lot of control over the organization, wherever they are, wherever they are in the hierarchy. That’s a good way to think of it. Okay, cool. That’s the late person. I’m gonna turn you, but you wouldn’t know it the way i talk. Okay. Let’s. See, what is this intermediate sanction? Emily what? Intermediate? To what? What’s, the more extreme. So the more extreme penalty comes from the world. We have that last month with private benefit private kermit, we’re technically really the penalty is replication of sabat on that thing’s pretty severe. Especially if a benefit confirmed it was only a little bit more than what it should have been. So what the irs produced then what? Something that they called their intermediate sanctions. Also the excess benefit transaction will which instead of replicating tax exempt status, so actually impose a penalty tax on that access benefits. So it can be suppose both on the insider who benefited. And it usually starts with a twenty five percent penalty talks of the excess amount. But also boardmember should know that they can also be taxed of ten percent of the access amount if they knowingly approve the transaction. Okay, knowingly mean let’s. Just stick with compensation at this point. Let’s not let’s, not get too the xx of benefits we’re just talking about direct compensation, cash, cash compensation. So so boardmember sze, who knowingly approved it meaning meaning they knew that it was excessive, right? So they have actual knowledge of the transaction, and when i use the term access benefit, i don’t mean the stuff on top of what say base salary, just an excess benefit itself, which could be a large compensation o just the way that i used that term in the way that fused with the rules. So um and boardmember, who would be considered knowingly approving such a transaction, would be someone who knows the terms of the transaction. I’m also aware of the possibility that that transaction might be excessive in violation of this excess benefit transactional on and also, you know, failing to make those reasonable tends to figure out whether it is actually excessive, but this goes back to the fiduciary duties of directors and making sure that there, meeting their duty of carrie’s, loves their duty of loyalty and making sure that they’re making informed decisions and that it is in the best interest of the organization by not being something that okay, and we have talked about those those duties those fiduciary duties previously can can these penalties that are levied against boardmember sze can they can they be paid by the organization? I’m generally no. So this would actually be triggered under state law of there are provisions that have to do is indemnification, which is the organization’s ability to cover expenses that would come out to a show like this. They’re being stewed in your capacity as like an officer dirac, the organization and generally that’s. Probably not going to be okay under state law, no matter what. Okay, okay. Let’s. See? Okay, gene let’s, let’s. Turn to you and let’s talk a little about the this the rebuttable presumption of reasonableness that emily mentioned before. What? What what’s that how does that play in here? So these procedures are useful wherever you’re know where you were, you know that you’re going to compensate one of these insiders amount that is not obviously way below market level, but you should go through these procedures just as a general rule. Anyway, if you’re anywhere near paying market rate compensation and their three step, the first step is getting advance approval by the board of directors before you. Enter into that confrontation transaction after the interested party there’s uninterested director in there is going to be compensated abstains from that vote and does not participate in that. Okay. And that would include on executive officer who’s who’s on the board. Because of that position, ex officio boardmember they should they should abstain as well if we’re talking about their compensation. Right? Okay, so you get the advance approval with with the abstention of the person who’s involved what it would else duitz step two is reliance on appropriate comparability data. So we’re looking at comparable salaries from similarly situated organizations for similar positions of similar work. So it’s all about getting the right comparable. It might be done through salary surveys, working with professionals that our salary experts in the non-profit area, or maybe looking at form nine nineties they’re different concerns about just taking other organizations form nine nineties to make sure that the right comparables but a lot of smaller organizations do it that way. What are those? Well, before we go on, what are those concerns about using the nine? Ninety? Well, they might not reflect in the nine, ninety special payments investing of like deferred compensation, though some organizations may look like they’re playing a really high salary, but those were just the result of past things that have been obligations that were paid in the reporting year. So you can’t really consider that a part of the the annual salary, for example, of that executive that showing on the nine, ninety that would not be good. Comparable. Okay, so i mean, can a small charity avoid having to hyre ah, compensation expert to do these comparability surveys? What are the other ways? Or maybe there is no other way. Well, there are some compensation surveys that are out there for free as well. You confined things from charity navigator. And i believe guys start might have some some compensation service for free. You have to be careful, though, because sometimes the ranges of the size of the organization don’t play in your favor. So, you know, they may say, well, this is the average compensation for organizations with annual budget between one million and ten million. And depending upon where you fit in that structure, using the average may not be appropriate for your organization. Right? Okay. Okay. Um and then add a couple more things to the comparability that it’s because you brought a small organization a general rule for organizations with less than one billion and gross receipts toe have at least three comparable so it’s not necessarily there. You know why spread search for comparability data. But tow have three is generally considered reasonable. And another thing to consider is really just giving you an idea of the band wins a salary that’s out there. But it would be problematic for an organisation to just look face purely on numbers and decide ok, just because it fits in the band with that that’s appropriate. I mean, that kind of goes back to your example of the football coaches where sometimes just so skewed that if you keep pushing the upper limit of the band, when you just start to see these ranges leaves up and up and you really do need a look that performance on the duties that are being like that? Yes. Okay, of course. The right, the person’s performance as well. Not just what other people are paying somebody similar in a similar organization. Okay, thanks so much. Thank you. Look at the geography because i know. In manhattan in san francisco, where we are the average salary’s going to be much higher than somewhere in des moines, iowa. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And there’s one more part to the rebuttable presumption. Can you can you explain that in about a minute, gene? Yeah, the third part is just timely. An adequate documentation of the board action. So that means really putting it down in the minutes on getting those minutes approved by the next board meeting. So you just want to make sure that you’ve documented it. And if you’ve got comparable, attach the comparable to the minutes to prove that the board has actually looked at these before making that determination and approval. All right, now that we’ve explained the three prongs of the rebuttable presumption gene, please explain what the hell a rebuttable presumption is. That’s great. What what it does is it shift the burden from your organization, have to prove that the salary is reasonable and shift it to the irs to prove that it’s unreasonable, which the irs doesn’t want to do because it takes a lot of work. So if you just go through these procedures, you kind of put a big barrier to the irs to go after you brew for paying excessive amounts because you say i’ve used the procedures that treasury regulations have approved this is the way it should be done in the iris used to get it back off at that point, unless they think they have a really big fight. So then write if you follow these procedures, the compensation is presumed to be reasonable. But the irs has the option, although it’s unlikely that it would exercise it to rebut that presumption and try to prove that the compensation was unreasonable. Is that right? If they want to take it to court, if there were. Okay. Okay. Likely. Okay, but it’s presumed rash reasonable if you follow the three prongs that you laid out, correct. Okay, we’re going to take a break. And when we come back, jean and emily and i are going to a little role play exercise, we’re going to be the board of directors and we’re going to decide on somebody’s compensation. Um, i don’t know. One of you two is going to chair the meeting, so you’re welcome over this break to figure out who that’s going to be. And i’m going to be a boardmember and then the other person be boardmember, too. So stay with us for that role. Play exercise. Don’t know what’s going to happen. I hope you’ll stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your object. Dafs. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I got more live listener love laurel, maryland bend, oregon, and tokyo welcome to our second listener in tokyo. We got more tokyo listeners than we have oregon or south carolina or north carolina listeners maurin tokyo than most other states listening. Okay, jean emily, we’re talking about compensation, compensation, clarity, and we’re going to our role play board board meeting now. Who’s the chair. I’m okay. Genes the chair. Emily, you and i are board members or way just regular boardmember zor is one of our compensation under discussion or what? I think we’re about boardmember okay, but neither of us has our compensation under consideration that person’s removed. Okay. All right. Go ahead, gene. You’re gonna share the meeting, okay, tony so right now we’re talking about approving the compensation of the candidate who is going to be our executive way, didn’t approve. We didn’t prove last month’s meeting meeting minutes. What kind of what kind of foisting? Of ah, fake what? We didn’t approve last minutes less months. Amina melkis consent agenda earlier, tunney and now we’re on the second part of our meeting. We’re okay. All right, go ahead. I’m taking my time taking my fiduciary. Duty very seriously. I want you to write that care, loyalty and what’s my third fiduciary duty. Besides karen loyalty, a lot of people like this, they obedience. Obedience. Okay, well, i’m not all right. Well, i mean, i’m failing on three, but but i’m taking my first two very seriously. All right, go ahead. Emily. Emily obviously doesn’t care, but she’s like lester, let me see lackluster boardmember i hope your term is up soon. Emily all right, okay, so we’ve got an executive director that we need to hire, and this executive director is pushing us for a salary of one hundred thousand dollars and the possibility of bonuses of up to twenty thousand dollars for pizza. We’ve got a million bucks in our budget, and we’re not really sure whether approve this compensation or not. He looks like a great candidate, but there’s some other candidates out there as well. What do you think, tony? Should should we hire this person that the salary they’re asking for? Well, do we have any comparable data by organizations that are similar to ours? Go thin geographics and also annual budget on dh with that data also be comparable in terms of this person’s responsibilities. Emily, i think you were convicted. You right? Collecting this data? Yeah. So i researched some organizations that of similar type similar size and similar roles of executive directors. And i found three different data points. So, uh, one and these they’re all in our geographical area. One is eighty thousand one. Report ninety thousand and another one report. One hundred and ten thousand. Okay. We’re looking at one hundred thousand with the possibility of a twenty thousand dollar bonus. What do you think, tony? Um, i guess the bass sounds or so we have. Eighty ninety. First of all, i’m assuming that emily knows what she’s doing when she says that these things are similar and putting a lot of faith in her because i could be personally liable if this turns out to be excessive compensation. Um, only if you know that it’s expensive. Funny, but that’s. All right, that’s. Right. Okay. Raise a good point about the line. What do you need? A reliable source. Okay, well, your outstanding young lawyer. So i’ll assume that you’re on. You’re on the board. Very in doing this. Surveys what i brought to the board. Meeting and we’re going to attach them to the minutes of the okay, i like the i’d liketo like the base of one hundred. I’m not sure about the extra bonus of twenty family. What do you think about that extra bonus of twenty when the high of our comparable is only one ten? I don’t think it’s necessarily problematic if we have adequate justification for allowing that for example, if thiss opportunity with this executive director is probably going to pass us by, we are in a bind because we’re now doing an executive director succession that we didn’t anticipate and the organization’s going to be really hurt if we don’t find somebody who’s qualified and this is the most qualified person we found and we’re actually getting a really good deal for this person and it is discretionary, so it’s going to be up to the board at the end of the year and we have put a limit on it, you know, maybe we should evaluate again looking at our revenues and looking again at the comparability data whether twenty thousand is reasonable, but i’m not opposed to putting the opportunity of a bonus into the contract. Right now, that’s. A bunch of malarkey. I’m walking out of this meeting. Did you hear me? Did you? My footsteps and i just slammed the door closed. I i’ll propose i’ll ask to see if there’s a motion to approve a one hundred thousand dollars based salary with a possibility of a ten thousand dollar bonus. And we will actually look at the possibility of a further ten thousand dollar bonus if we hit certain revenue goals that might allow us to look at other comparable, do you think that’s reasonable? All right, i’ll come back into the meeting. All right? I’ll go along with that. We have to wrap up our meeting very quickly. Yes, i would approve that. Okay, so family makes the most money. Wilbekin were approved. We’ve got it as a draft that being the diligent boardmember i am just a reminder that we need to have adequate documentation and our board minutes. So i’m going to write down the terms of the transaction. We approve the date it was approved, the board members that were present during the debate who voted. I’m also going to attack the comparability data on there and as well document the fact that we followed our conflict of interest policy and removed the executive director from the conversation that was emily chan she’s, an attorney at neo non-profit exempt organizations law group and our board chair was jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo. You’ll find them both blogging at non-profit law blogged, dot com, gene and emily, thank you very much. My pleasure, thanks to my guests this week, evan giller and emily chan and jean takagi next week, aziz said, i’m recording this show weeks in advance, so you’ll i don’t know what’s going to be on here the twenty ninth completely, but have i ever let you down? I have not. So hopefully you don’t think i have let you down? I do know, scott koegler will be with me on march twenty ninth. You can count on that good old scotty will be here. He’s, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news what’s he going to talk about the man is only human. I can’t ask him this many weeks in advance, but has he has? Scott koegler ever let you down? We’re all over the social web, but you can’t make a click without sparkle a testa smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio itunes, facebook, youtube, twitter, linkedin, four, square pinterest. Slideshare facebook. If you’ve been to the facebook page lately, if you love the show, please like the facebook page and more of our information will get into your news feed. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer on the assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you will be with me next friday, one, two, two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Oppcoll i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz get him. Thing. Good hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about so gain special access to the ivory tower? Listen to me very sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking dot com.

GrantSpace logo and title of prospect research chat, "What's in Your Donor Dossier?"

Web Chat Hosted By The Foundation Center

Screen Shot 2013-03-18 at 12.33.55 PMThe Foundation Center is hosting Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, and me for a free web chat this Thursday the 21st at 2:30 eastern.

What’s in Your Donor Dossier?
The Foundation Center says we’ll talk about the critical pieces of data you should gather on prospective donors. “Our panelists discuss strategies and methods for developing a stellar donor dossier.”

Maria Semple is eminently qualified to answer your research questions. That’s why she’s a monthly contributor to my weekly Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. I like to surround myself with smart people and pick their brains for our listeners.

Which leaves me wondering why I was invited. Maybe for color commentary.

Here’s the place to register and send your questions in advance. As you put together questions for me, imagine pitching wiffle ball to a 4-year-old.

This is a free, live chat and text-only. Should be interesting for two people who meet on my audio podcast.

Actually, I have thoughts on prospect research after 16 years in fundraising. I promise to share what I’ve learned.

Many thanks to The Foundation Center for hosting!

I hope you’ll be with Maria and me on Thursday.

______

Update: Prospect Research Chat Transcript

 

Amy Sample Ward

Nonprofit Radio, March 15, 2013: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guest:

Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward

Our social media scientist and monthly contributor has a new co-authored book, “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” We’ll talk about how your nonprofit can raise money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our anytime, everywhere world.

 
 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Here is the link to the audio: 133: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward. You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and it’s friday, march sixteenth. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. It would hurt me deeply if it came to my attention that you had missed integrate communications and marketing that’s integrate g r e a t communications and marketing. Diane lansing, president of lansing associates, had ideas for getting your communications and marketing in sync. She wants you to apply analytics so you’ll know what works and what doesn’t in the short and long terms sounds simple, but are you doing it? Diane had advice for getting you started and p r i programme related investments are prospect research contributor and the prospect finder maria simple was with me to explain why foundations don’t only make grants, some offer loans, loan guarantees, equity investments and other pr ise how do you find those foundations? That’s what we talked about last week with maria she also had info on conferences that you’ll want to pay attention to this week. A conversation with amy sample ward, our social media scientists and monthly contributor, has a new co authored book social change any time everywhere how to implement online multi-channel strategies to spark advocacy, raise money and engage your community the book is shorter than its title. We’ll talk about how your non-profit can raise money in fact, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our any time everywhere world. Amy sample ward is going to be joining us, but she’s not here yet, so we’re going to start with tony’s take two instead of doing that later in the show, and then we go to a break and we’ll hope that amy’s here the time that that break is over. Tony steak to my block this week is number one podcast and two in the top five i want to give many, many thanks to blogger cheryl mccormick she’s, the principal of ascend non-profit consulting, and she named her top five non-profit podcasts and this show to show that you are listening to right this moment was number one, tony martignetti non-profit radio and cheryl, thank you very much for that fund-raising fundamentals, which is my monthly podcast that i host for the chronicle of philanthropy was number three. Cheryl, thank you very much. Again for that on this show number one show, in case i hadn’t mentioned that she likes jargon jail, she likes my jog in jail, and she likes live listener love that i send out, and i like those things too, and i think they are. I think both podcasts are highly rated by blogger cheryl mccormick, but also doing very well outside that because they’re fund-raising to do, um, i just love the opportunity to meet people that i would not have met otherwise and not only meet them, but pick their brains today, it’s going to be amy sample ward for an hour if she ever gets here, but all the other people, all the other guests, you know, i get to talk to them for twenty five, thirty minutes or so. Ah, that is just a riel joy, knowing that you’re learning from them as i’m picking their brains and we’re all learning, we’re both learning. I’m learning as well and as you fund-raising fundamentals, that’s a shorter one that said that’s, a monthly podcast, it’s only ten minutes and it’s devoted to fund-raising, but again picking the brains of experts for the benefit of listeners that is a real pleasure. The fund-raising fundamentals you can hear on the chronicle of philanthropy website and it’s, also on itunes, cheryl’s only negative for the for each of the two podcasts was that there’s not enough of them, she what she wishes i did them more frequently, and that was very gracious of her. Cheryl mccormick. Thank you much very much again. Her company is ascend non-profits and you’ll find cheryl mccormick at ascend non-profits dot com, and she has a very cool logo. The check out the logo for their company, very nicely done, very smart, very clever there’s, more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two little extended version for friday, the fifteenth of march, the eleventh show of the year. We’re going to take a break, hoping amy sample ward gets here by the time that’s over on while we take this break, i’ll be putting together some live listener love and thinking about what we’re going to talk about. If amy doesn’t get here in time, stay with me talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’ve got live listener love forest grove, oregon welcome forest grove you haven’t been here before. Welcome. Lincoln, nebraska, brooklyn, new york and woodside, new york welcome live listener love out to all of you let’s. See in aa. Tokyo, japan. Osaka, japan, and fukuoka, japan. Konichiwa, welcome live love tto live listen to love teo each live listener amy’s not here yet, so we’re going do a little a little preview of her book, a little browse through her book. The first thing that i want to point out is that i wish it had more pictures when i’m when i’m picking books. I i flipped through looking for pictures and i probably would not have bought her book. It didn’t have enough pictures for me. I like pictures like more graphic, so it has graphics and has some screen shots. It’s very good that way, but i would like more. I would like more pictures in amy’s book. Aside from that, any simple word has just joined us. Well, i’m sure you did. All right. Pick moment. Take a moment. Impose yourself if we figured you were in the subway, i was just saying, i wish your book had more pictures. Oh, yeah. Pictures of what? Just it doesn’t really matter. I don’t know. A cute dogs, landscapes, landscapes. Yeah, i just look, i look for pictures as i’m i’m browsing through the book section. The books, it was meant more for reading than browsing, but okay, take another breath. Yes. You knew you knew that we were waiting for you, and yeah, i was going to be fine, but welcome. Thank you. Have you for the full hour? Yeah, exactly. I’m happy to be here for as much of the subway would let me to be our best majority. I did. Tony’s take two in advance. So? So when i’m i’ll have that time together. Congratulations on your book. Thank you. Its code written by allison. Is it keeping kapin kapin much? Tell us about alison she’s, the founder of radcampaign and the tele summit and network women who tech she’s based in d c uh, she’s. Pretty cool. Yeah, i met her because i was at your book launch. Oh, that’s right book launch that you did at the at planned parenthood parenthood federation. Yeah, yeah, that was very good to about forty people. If you got to meet your husband, max? Yes, very nice. Often left alone as your traveling throughout the country. Yes. That’s the that’s the first time he’s ever seen me speak in any capacity in public? Yes. He said that i didn’t talk to him. You know, first time i know. Lovely. Um okay, we’re in. Why do you let’s make this clear? Where? Ok, i need any time everywhere, what’s, what’s our anytime, everywhere world that you are trying to help people make social change in. Well, the anytime everywhere is really focused on the people, not the organization. So all of your constituents, donors, supporters, whatever you want to call them, they are, you know, living their lives basically around the clock, their life. And they are thinking about okay, if i want to talk to this person, i’m going to do it here. Or if i want to talk about this topic, i’m going to do it here. You just interact with your community, however you do as an individual, it might mean a friend calls you and then after you hang up, maybe you go look at facebook and interact with another friend there and then maybe send your mom and email, you know, but you’re not thinking okay, well, i only talked to sam on the phone, and i only talk to my friend barb in email, you know, you as people, we don’t treat our communications and our networks in that way, so organization shouldn’t be saying, ok, well, we only send you emails or we only let you talk about our campaign on facebook. We need to think about the way we communicate and allow our communities to engage with us as as a way that crosses all those channels as well, okay? We’re not segmenting our lives and write our community, our conversations, right? Stilted, like communications are conversations, right? I see somebody on foursquare check in, and i’ll make a snarky comment or something that i have seen one of those geever andi didn’t answer it as i recall, um, in fact, you were recently traveling, you were in south by southwest. I wass that’s ah, what i think of it is just a big music and party and drink fest. Is that what many people think of it that way as well? I’ve never been there at the beauty of being me is that i can know nothing about something and still be an expert in it. Yes, of course. Oh, i think i’m very well acquainted with south by southwest. Even though i’ve never been there. Why don’t you tell us what the rial tell people like me who think that everything that they know nothing about but it’s a very comfortable place to be. Actually i what is south by southwest? Well, it it are very originally was a music festival, but now has three components music interactive, which is really all kinds of technology, not just social media, including gaming and all kinds of interfaces hardware, software, etcetera and film. So film and interactive take place the same week. Concurrently on then the following week is all music. Were you there in your capacity as membership director of non-profit technology network? I waas so there’s a non-profit lounge there lounges of all different types sponsored by different people. So there’s, a blogger lounge meant for bloggers to find each other, etcetera. So the non-profit lounge is sponsored each year by beaconfire ah, long time, you know, and ten member organization sponsor, etcetera, and they opened it up for others to get to be in the space with them so and ten had a presence. We had a couple couches, if you will, and i was also working with them to manage the content each day so that people that were started in the lounge, what kind of concert we had was that we had a different topic each day. So we had one day was focused on measurement and metrics. One day was focused on engaging millennials. One day was focused on technology, staffing and the capacity around technology. Um, there were a couple more, and we so we highlighted little, you know, not not trivia because they’re real. But, you know, just little tidbits from our research each day based on that topic. So you come in the room and learn different things. And then at lunchtime we had panels on that topic so people that we knew were going to be either at south by southwest. Are actually based in austin that we could bring in to talk that day, just with whoever wanted to be there and engage with them. And then night times that was the drink fest in well, for some, i think drinking started as early is, like eleven, because i guess technically it’s noon on the east coast. Yes, yes, all right, anything. Did you learn a couple of one or two little things that that you didn’t know or maybe reinforce something that what was your was your take home from from south by the has to be something? Yeah, i think you know, they’re always different applications or tools that get launched itself myself west. So people, you know, waiting, teo, unveil some new application, and so there was a bit of that as well, but i think this year, the feeling that i got from a lot of the non-profit and social impact crowd at the conference was that people are really starting to get to a place where they feel really proud about some of the things they’ve done in their non-profit and they they wish, you know hey, what? Why don’t we get all the attention? You know, just because that really big organization, you know, that has tons of marketing budget and had tried and tried many things and then succeeded with something, you know, we’re a tiny organization, and we did that to, you know, they want a platform for their voices to but, you know, south by is always kind of mixing up the content and have had different tracks and and things like that over the years. So it’s not to say that there will never be a platform for them. But i think this year, there are a lot of organizations there, you know, looking for a place where they could stand on their soapbox and then get to share with everyone what they’ve worked on. All right and excellent that they got that exactly like to see that small, especially small and midsize shops getting attention. Craig newmark wrote the forward to your book. Craig is the founder of craig craig’s list, of course. And quick connect. He’s. Been our guest on the show twice. I think that was a trivia question once. How many times you been on the show? Oh, did we do that? Oh, i think we did i think for a giveaway and weigh just you were my guest for the hundredth show and we’re giving away? Yes, but the answer’s two way long ago gave away a lot of intense swag for us to give away. Yes, and he says in the forward that social media and good customer service or big deals you think we were going, you and i talk every month about social media, we know that that’s a big deal goodcompany mers service what? Why? Why is he talking about that with respect to the social engagement social change? Well, i think it doesn’t matter if you’re for-profit aura non-profit if you do true direct service or not, ah lot of the most basic day to day interactions that you could be having with your community take the form of customer service, even if you know, in a non-profit we normally don’t call them, but answering people’s questions or just being able to be present on social media, where you see people asking a question, even if it’s not about you being the organization that can answer the question for them and really playing a service role builds community in such a small kind of passive way, but that israel and you’re creating value with them, that it is a matter you know, if you are comcast and you want to use twitter to answer customer service questions or, you know you’re the humane society and you want to use twitter to make sure people know how to get help with their animals and and, you know, i like your just broad definition of what’s customer service. I mean, it may just be interacting on a day to day, right? You may not think of it as a service to the customer just having, you know, we’re just engaged in a conversation there on the engagement ladder and what exactly were just, you know, talking to them right, exactly and helping helping your supporters take advantage of all that they could do with you is customer service, you know, someone calling and saying, i want to volunteer, but i don’t know how and you pointing them in the direct in the right direction that is still a customer service function in your organization. We’ve got some live listener love we’re talking about texas austin, texas, where itself by was but we have san antonio on the line, santa or on the web? You know antonio, texas live listeners love welcome, welcome to the show and the conversation let’s, talk, talk a fair amount, i think about fund-raising and then how will we even, you know, engagement and advocacy get, you know, getting talking toa advocates and motivating advocates, and you spent some time talking about the different motivations to give why white people are giving on dh there certainly have been articles and books on this right by the the traditional, i guess fund-raising prose that are out there, you you spent a little time with emotions, emotions versus statistics, right? What would you like to say there? Well, obviously, we are humans, we are driven by emotion. Um, and i think that a lot of online tools facilitate that really well, you know, how many times have we seen a tweet or gotten an email where they say, you know, this many million people in this country are dealing with this issue and it’s like, okay, well, i don’t actually know a billion people, so i can’t conceptualize that very well, you know, but having a story that directly connects with you and is someone that’s already been served by that organization helps you understand the kind of person that is may be dealing with that issue and the way that the organization helps them because that’s really what we need thio conceive as the person who’s going to take action. Isn’t that what does it really mean for a billion people to be dealing with this issue? But what does it look like to help a person with dealing with that issue? If i can conceptualize what changing the fate is, then i can understand how i can help it and be a part of it. But if it’s just the raw data, it’s really hard to see what the action is in that, and social media really helps with storytelling because you can have, you know, people interacting people sharing their own story in response to that story, it really facilitates that, but the other part of emotion is our natural competitiveness and, you know, not really wanting to say, oh, yeah, my friend karen gave a lot more to that organization that i did. Who says that? Who says, oh, i gave the least of my friends. You know, and and tapping into that natural competitiveness, you know, using peer pressure for good is actually very successful. One of the research reports that we sight in the book was in pledges, so so, like a pledge drive over the phone, but still you could do this on social media, but when the collar you know, talking to the donor said that the previous caller had given more than they were about to pledge they then up to their pledge, and they upped it even more when the color sad. Oh, actually, the woman before you, if it was a woman collar and once they knew it was the same gender is them. They gave even more so just by presenting the opportunity to be outdone by someone else, people wanted to beat them. We’re going to talk that’s, outstanding. We had a guest i had guessed professor gen shang from the university of indiana, and she had done research with this was telephone based also with public radio and bloomington, indiana. When when? When certain whether she had five key words and when they were used to thank the person you’re or to describe the person as as a donor, so you’re very kind of you to give or it’s very compassionate of you to give that it increased the the donations right for that call. And actually i think that we’re doing it. I’m being a little inarticulate, but where they were doing it was i want to thank you for your kind donations in the past or your compassionate or your thoughtful donations in the past, and we hope that you’ll you’ll help us today. Yeah, those using there were five different adjective she had and they could trigger they would trigger hyre giving than someone who who was just thanked. Thank you for your past giving, right. So this is this is really interesting when it’s gender and when there’s a comparison to the previous calling out, how were they, you know, like with the language they were using? Because you don’t be snarky about, right? Right? Do you remember? I know they were introducing that it’s now the top of my head, it was something like, you know, similar like, thanks so much for your desire to give the woman before you donated fifty how much would you like to donate? So you’re just kind of using it as a context setting statement and then giving them the chance to say like, well, darn it, i’m given sixty five, you know? Yeah, excellent. Okay, um going back to your point about big numbers versus a face, i found a quote, i’m going to quote mother teresa, i found a quote that that’s pertinent to this, i think she said, never worry about numbers, help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you social media can make a story come alive, it could be a person near you, it could be pictures on instagram. It could be video youtube video on your blogged you can you can put a face to the the homelessness or the hunger that affects a billion people right, and show people how their gift will will impact that that story right? And i like the part of the quote that says start with the person nearest to because that’s too, what we’ve talked about many times in the show don’t go out there and try and find these new people. You already have a community of people that you work with, that you’ve served. Start with their stories and then other people will come out of the woodwork. You know that identify with that story or that have also been served, but maybe i hadn’t talked to you before, so start with the stories you already have and just show them out to the to the rest of the community. Ok, so some peer pressure, yes, about suffering a little point about about suffering can be a valuable, motivated give yeah, it’s kind of a weird nuance on competition. It’s it’s part of why things like walkathon tze and challenges of you know, if i if someone donates five thousand dollars, i’ll shave my head because we actually really liketo watch each other have to deal with something that we don’t have to deal with. And so it’s it’s part of why we can say great, you know, if you pledge, i’ll have to run this many miles. Terrific. I would like to see my friend have to run that many miles yeah, and again, doing that in a place where all those people, you know, in a like a thon process where all those people are competing for donations gives you both layers. Of the captain’s competing against each other for the most pledges, but then also all of their friends saying, oh, yeah, i want my friend to have tto shave his head back in the dark days before, before i knew you as well as i do, those were the dark days they were well, they were more your doctor darker for you if you’re going there were darker for you before you knew me then and then before i knew you, um, i was used to now, so you’ve even like you, really? You haven’t liked me because i used to pay more attention to vanity metrics, then you and i have talked about vanity tricks, and i’m going to give the quintessential example of it in a second. I pay less attention to those things now more involved in the more thinking about the engagement, and i was paying at that time very close attention to the number of facebook like likes, likes of the show’s facebook page, and this was a couple of years ago, and i wanted to get to three hundred and i don’t remember where we started, right? But i with some high school friends. Of mine, who were willing tto co chair the campaign. I issued the blue pedicure challenge and i said that i would get a blue pedicure if friends from anywhere but the two friends from high school with cochair radcampaign if we would get to three hundred lakes and of course we did get the three hundred likes within a certain time is like two weeks or so. We’ve got three hundred and and i went across the street from the studio here there’s this clip on the second floor there’s a salon and i got a blue pedicure and i had video it’s sons on the youtube channel. It was great fun. Yeah, and people said, you know, a soon as we got the three hundred are weighted the blue pedicure. Yeah, it’s tony gonna make good on the way we want to see the photo so i had video of me making my appointment, which was won. And then i picked my color. Nice. Different shades of blue, of course. Of course. I picked my blue color. And then i went back a week later for my appointment, and i upgraded to the powerful max. Also i got the paraphernalia. I don’t even know what that means, but well, they put your feet in warm wax. Oh, interesting wax. Okay, yeah, i don’t know what i’m supposed to soften. I think too interesting. That was my first and last boedecker left so many questions now, so well, they’re all answered on the video there i’ll go to the video i block i met blogged it too. I know it’s on the but certainly it’s on youtube blue pedicure challenge you took a multi-channel approach to this pedicure experience. I did that’s true because we campaign was in multi-channel and then the impact in the outcome were were probably blawg and certainly facebook and youtube e did take multi-channel provoc any other and plenty of engagement. Lots of engagement it was great fun. Yeah, it was good. So pie in the face you use the pie in the face example in the back. There’s. A picture of someone one of the few pictures in the book has someone getting those lots of graphs and good pictures. Has someone getting a pie in the face and there’s a picture of alison’s dog in the book leah leah lida lida lida. Like peter, with a now. Okay, why is why is there dog picture? Because they adopted her. And so there’s ah, case study in there about an adoption campaign. Okay, so there you go, there’s a picture and it’s a cute i didn’t say there were no pictures. I said it’s not enough to suit me. We’re coming out in the fall with color book edition, a graphic novel way have just about a minute before break let’s talk about the last area of motivation sharing impact you and i talked about this before, but let’s just remind listeners how important that is. Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, i think a lot of organizations, when they think sharing impact, they think, okay, well, you know where the campaign’s over will send an email that says, we got all of the money and now we’re going to do the thing. There we go, that’s the report, but but there’s versions of sharing impact that are kind of like evergreen content, you know, the putting, putting some of your expenditures or big, successful things in the footer of your email. So anytime someone goes in the photo of your website. Anytime someone goes your website, they see this is how much money is being devoted two programs, and this is what those programs have created, or whatever. There’s also reached the research that shows on donation forms, where you actually show the impact of the money, people donate more so, again, just just keeping it really clear, clear and present all the time as an opportunity, right? Wait, go away for a couple minutes, and when we come back, of course, amy stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get him. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent there’s a bunch of you on facebook, there’s a bunch of you on twitter and join the conversation with those already there on twitter, use the hashtag non-profit radio thanks for joining us multi-channel let’s see what you bring in-kind caroline, caroline, caroline xero eyes are san antonio is that i believe shut up, san antonio. Um okay, so we’re all about multi-channel we should have a plan for our multi-channel now engagement strategy turns out we are too, right? Yeah, you want to have goals? You and i have talked about some of this before, but right, putting it all together now and you’ve put it together in a book. So it’s ah it’s worth it’s worth revisiting the stop? Yes, because they are important. R r multi-channel plan goals. But how are we going to figure out where we want to be? Well, especially for fund-raising you know, goals have to be really specific. It’s hard to say we’re going to do this year and campaign because we would like to raise some money and you know where we’re soup kitchen, we do things that are important. Although important, not compelling has a goal for your staff to even create a campaign out of, but also for your donors to want to support. But if you can say if we raise this much money, it will actually give us this many meals in this much time, you know, three hundred meals over the course of the month. If we can raise this much money, people then can imagine both you know what their actual, like hundred dollar donation means as faras how much is served, but it also sets you up to do more than your asking, you know, if you say we’re we’re shooting for ten thousand dollars and that gives us three hundred meals for the month of january as soon as you get close to the goal. It’s really easy to say terrific. Now, if we get ten thousand more, we can feed everyone for february two instead of those campaigns that you see where they’ve done a really great job, they’ve activated their community, and once it starts, they actually start raising a lot of money and then they get to the end and they think terrific close down shop, you know, the thermometer reached the top instead, you’re setting yourself up to go is much, you know, raise as much as you can in the time that you’re planning to run the campaign and you also set yourself up. If in case you don’t reach your number, you’re still able to report back in a successful way of saying, you know, we had high hopes of raising ten thousand and we didn’t get there, but we’re still have enough to do two hundred bills this month, and this is how you could help us, you know, after the holidays to serve those last hundred or whatever. So giving yourself a really clear goal lets you iterated kind of as the campaign goes and respond to how it how it’s doing important, do you think tio, have a time limit to your your fund-raising goal? Definitely ah lot, whether you have one week or a one month or however long that the time is, you’re going to see an initial tick and then a big drop in the valley and then as it gets closer, you know, everyone starts donating again, so it doesn’t really i mean, technically, it matters you don’t want to say this is a yearlong donation campaign, but whatever the duration, is it’s really clear or it’s really important to be clear about when the end date is so that people know ok? It’s coming, oh, my gosh, i better donate now and and they actually respond to that e mail instead of just saying, oh, well, i could do it next time i remember or next time i have my wallet. In-kind now we’re gonna have to figure out how to message message just campaign, so that should be a part of our our plan also, exactly, and a lot of organizations, you know, when when starting to think about a campaign fund-raising or otherwise get really excited in that staff meeting when you start brainstorming like the catchphrase of the campaign, you know, and that can be fun and enjoyable, but very rarely are the witty catchphrase is actually the things that include the action and the ask, so don’t spend too much time thinking of like balloons for ur or whatever like crazy thing that maybe is related to the campaign is because you want to make sure whatever very simple phrasing you use and then build your campaign off of includes the aschen, the action so what, you know, give or do this thing for, you know, this many meals in this time? And then once you have that core message, ain you khun start planning out of communications calendar that’s reflective of all those channels you want to use remembering, of course, offline or direct mail and not just e mail, etcetera. The other part about messaging that i see organizations forget about is is they concentrate on how they’re going to launch the campaign, and their communications calendar will say, you know, here’s, the first email that goes out and here’s, how we’re going to decorate our facebook page and rebranded there’s no date in that planet’s launch plan and then exactly exactly for exaggeration plan. Sometimes organizations say, well, you know, we want to be responsive, we want a wait and see how it goes. Well, that’s totally fine, but you could still say our plan is to send a second email day three of the campaign, and we’ll be able to say what you contribute exactly. You need to have planned out when you’re going to message so that you can say great if day three, we’re going to send it on update email let’s, make sure later that afternoon facebook has an update as well, and not just another you know, status report or something, so it helps you maintain a good flow across your channel so it’s not always responsive and you’re you know, twitter isn’t just thanks, thanks, thanks, but also has things to share out, you know, that match your other communications you meant now you mentioned offline also. So this is that we’re not just talking about online social social networks, but the offline strategies should be coordinated, if that’s the way that you’re right, typically engaging with people right? And some organizations may plan an offline launch event the day that the campaign is launching. So of course, you know there’s a lot to do there, but it’s also a good reminder to to capture content from that launch event that you can use throughout the campaign. If you have a bunch of people in one place, make sure summer your staff have their phones or flip cameras or something to take some videos, and then you have maybe half a dozen videos you can use during the course of the campaign that again, just bring up on individual story, give you some divers content, etcetera, you know, whatever kinds of content you could pull from that live event but it’s also a good reminder that many organizations, even while running a campaign, have other work that you’re doing. And so maybe you have a press event about some of your other work use that as an opportunity. Once the press component of that piece is over, you know you’re done talking about that policy change, you have a room full of people, then say, great, you know, this is all done i had now want to talk to you about this campaign we’re running, and we’re on day five and it’s going really well and here’s the story take advantage of all those offline opportunities to engage people kayman sample ward is a cz membership director of and ten, which you’ll find it, and ten dot or ge and the book that we’re talking about whether that she co authored is social change anytime. Everywhere you khun follow amy on twitter she’s at amy r s ward at which we know stands for rene the artist for rene and her block is amy sample ward, dot or ge? Get some more live listener love madison, wisconsin, tustin, california. Salem, oregon welcome, salem. Welcome you’re in. So you were in salem several months ago. You were in somewhere in oregon. Weren’t portland, portland not very far away. Okay, italy, we don’t know what city in italy we just have a vague reference to italy. Buy-in giorno, chou. Welcome live listener love also tio sudbury in ontario, canada. And barnaby burnaby. Pardon me, burnaby in british columbia, canada two provinces welcome canada he’s offline strategies. Amy um, could also be so for aside from events direct mail if you usually using that channel telephone. Yeah, right. This these could all be coordinated in your three day or one week or one month campaign. Yeah, especially if you have stories that you know you’re going to use ahead of time in your campaign. You know, things that you’ve collected in the past, because if you khun send a direct mail piece, especially just something simple, like, ah, postcard or, you know, an invitation to participate in the campaign that is from that person or telling that person story has their photo, and then, two days later, you can send them an email that says, great. Now, the campaign’s open, and it has that same story. People then can say, yes, i know that story. I ready to kim. You know, i’m ready to join or actually remember that they’ve signed up with your organization at all, and that they should be engaging in this campaign. And that direct mail piece wasn’t a like a mistake in their mailbox in their apartment building. What do we know about how donors give across multi-channel versus more traditional the off, strictly off line? Well, that data is changing every year is we actually get more and more data at all have more people that we can ask survey, etcetera and and organizations are also becoming more sophisticated with being able to track there donors with they came from online or not, and then just able to report that data so it’s getting more it’s getting clearer every year, but really, we know that people that are online aren’t just saying because i found you online, i want to give to online or because i found you offline. I want to give to offline there’s actually a lot of back and forth that happens. And for most people, even if they are millennials, where people think for some reason, you know, young people only ever look at facebook even if they found you on social media, they still come to your website tto learn about your work and figure out if they want to donate to you so that relationship, maybe on facebook, that relationship may be off line at events they attend, but they still want to go to your website where they can kind of take control of what they’re looking at on your website and learn about your work? So it’s still really important that you have information on your website, but also that you provide that donation? Ask an opportunity button, what have you on your website so that once they go there and learn about you, they could take that action? We also know that activists are seven times more likely to be donors, so we can’t treat people like, well, this is my activist list in this database and over here is my donor list because those activists are totally primed to now give you money, they just put their name on a bunch of work for you, they might as well, you know, give you ten dollars, so it isn’t just about allowing them to come to you wherever you are, but also making sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity teo to engage in donation or fund-raising asks excellent keeping with our multi-channel a c said you could join us on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio there’s some folks on the facebook page and we have a phone call. We have tim. Tim, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you very much. Hi, dad. Ah, that’s. Adorable. Dad called yes. That’s to sweden. Where you where you calling from? Amy sample wards. Dad. Well, i work important oregon, but amy was raised, and we live out in the country outside of portland. Okay. And, uh, of course, her mother knew first and called me and said, oh, my god, going to computer your daughter’s on the radio. I just had to get on here listen and tell everybody i see how proud i am with us. Oh, thank you, dad. I love you. Now i hope you’re gonna listen. Other shows to tim, you know. Oh, i will now want you to be a regular water in there. Yeah. Do you have? Do you have a question? You really want to ask amy? Yeah. When’s. He coming home. This’s too sweet. I love this. I’ll see you on saturday. You will at a girl. All right. Find adal. Proud of you, amy. Thank you, dad. Nice to meet you to let me on it’s. A pleasure to meet you, tim. If you want to, if you want to ask. A question of amy. You can call eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. Or you can also treat us. We’re monitoring the hashtag and the facebook page. That’s. A very nice way of saying you’re stalking social media in case people ask questions. Here in the studio, i’m busy talking now, theo control. We want to engage people in our messages, whether they’re online offline and you talk about the hooks we have just a little we have a minute before a break, what just once you just tease the idea of of the hook a little bit? Sure, i mean, different people have different ideas of messaging hooks and what you can do, but i think for people really thinking about multi-channel campaigns, the important idea of a hook is that that’s, the consistent piece you’re going to throw in so that whether you’re maybe sharing a photo and a story of someone on facebook that day or you’re sharing a big infographic about, you know, all this work that’s going into the campaign or maybe it’s just tweets about simple actions people can take you use a consistent hooked to bring them back into the campaign. So when isn’t just like this photo or share this info graf or, you know, retweet this step, but there’s an additional hook that always connects it backto larger campaign so people don’t think, oh, the campaign must be over, and now they’re just sharing info graphics. But but that there’s always some peace hooking. It all together, so it, you know, you want to break the campaign and into individual stories, individual images and smaller actions, but they have to be connected. Otherwise, people don’t get why am i doing this today? And i did this other thing yesterday. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes when we come back, amy, and i’ll keep talking about your your multi-channel plan and what should be in it, including the goals and the messages in the hook that we’re talking about. Stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Durney welcome back. I’ve got more live. Listen, love asia so well represented in john china sold. I’m sorry. Inchon, korea in john career where the airport is. Everybody knows that on john korea. Seoul, korea. Welcome, manu haserot. If you shout china, shanghai, china taipei, taiwan ni hao. Amy, did you know all these languages? No, i have been to korea, but i don’t remember much more than hello. Were you at the airport in inchon? No, you don’t know. You went to the floor. Different airport. I flew into seoul and then hopped over. Teo, you know we’re other places. Okay, um, the these these little hooks you you have some ideas about matches the hook in as part of your your message plan might be that you have a campaign match which could be which could be motivating to people to give. I thought you meant matches like to ignite striking matches. Right, that’s. Why? I could see the look on your face. Keep talking until you come back till it’s. In my reality, we need to show some reality. Um, yes, matches are a great way. As you know, in a fund-raising like retirement today campaign especially. When you know that money is already guaranteed, you don’t necessarily have to just recruit a matching sponsor, you could say, well, the sponsors giving us ten thousand dollars anyway, let’s give this sponsor more visibility, give them more value as a sponsor, but also leverage that to get more individual donations. So saying, you know, this sponsor is goingto give for every one of your dollars, and we want to get up to ten thousand just like, you know, they will match more to say, you know, every time you do this action, they will donate so that way you can, you know, maybe you don’t necessarily have a fundraising campaign that’s pure fund-raising but you want people thio maybe donate, you have this sponsor that’s going to donate the bulk of the funds, but you really want to get some behavior change in your community. So the diabetes hands foundation did a great campaign. We’re actually fall diabetes hands, foundation spend, you know, they’re they’re focused on people with diabetes and really making behavioral change so that they have healthier lives and are healthier people. So they had a campaign where there was a matching sponsor, so they were going to donate every time people exercise for thirty minutes and then took did their test so that they were being able to see from their own results that when they took a test than exercise for thirty minutes and then took another test, how much better their results were blood a butcher on, and then you report that. So so go onto the website or goto instagram and share a photo of view exercising and to prove that exercising for thirty minutes doesn’t mean you drive all the way to the gym. You change your clothes, you know, you do the thing, whatever it could just mean taking your dog for a walk that’s twice as long as normal. So you actually get to thirty minutes instead of maybe, you know, ten or fifteen around the block and realizing you don’t have to go out of your way to be exercising every day and still see those positive results in yourself. So every time you posted that you did the testing and you exercise into the test again, then the sponsor was going to donate. So of course you have all these people that for one month no. Every time i do this thing that i should do anywhere, you know, they’re going to donate money and then because you’ve done it for an entire month, and even if you only did it once a week, that was already for five times that you’ve taken this positive action and seen how easy it is, and you’re that much more likely to continue that behavior outstanding. I love how it’s so closely tied to exactly what they’re what they’re mission exactly, exactly improvement of health, of people with diabetes. Exactly. So now, if we have these messages now, we need to identify who they’re going to go out, too and where where they’re gonna go out? What? Which way said you and i are always saying, you want to go to people where they are exactly, but it’s also not the same message, every single place i mean, we have all experienced those campaigns where an organization sends you an email and then post on facebook like the exact same two paragraphs that they just set you in an email and then you don’t hear from them for the entire month, and they’re just waiting for the response to come in, so recognizing that you’re going to have some consistent messages throughout the campaign, like we talked about with the campaign communications calendar, but also that they’re going to be slightly different and nuance so new macy on facebook people not really catching the campaign, not really engaging, and yet you see people on twitter going crazy and sharing that information, so you’re going to have to address the facebook community, maybe with less information about the campaign, maybe that community is just saying we’re not really interested, so don’t be posting every single day because otherwise they’re definitely going to tune out, whereas you could start engaging twitter more cause people are really responding there. So it’s it’s also recognizing where to pull back and not just okay? Well, we’re going to send the ask everywhere another channel that you and i haven’t talked about it, we just have about a minute left. So is mobile. Yet for people who have given you permission, yeah, say little about mobile mobile is great for engaging people, especially in the middle of the campaign where you could send a text that says, hey, reminder, tomorrow is going to be the last day. So today, when you get home, you should donate or even include in the text the link so that they could go from there, you know, text message on their smartphone over to the to the web and donate their so long as you’ve actually optimized your website. So from a phone, the for the forum doesn’t look like this weird gobbledygook. Amy sample ward she’s, co author of social change anytime everywhere i’m very grateful that she’s, our regular social media contributor thank you. I really enjoyed having you on. Do you have so much banter with others? I want to believe that i give you the hardest time. Okay, well, i want then i in that case, i want you to continue believing that the book is social change any time everywhere get the book. We just talked about a small part of it. We talked about the fund-raising part, but it’s all about engagement and increasing advocacy. Moving the needle on engagement get this book it’s ah it’s on you’ll find it on amazon social change anytime everywhere amy’s blogger is amy sample ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy rs ward amy, thanks so much. Thank you, real pleasure. Every time i got some more live listener love a story in new york, that’s, queens, welcome historia milton, ontario, canada, ontario. It checked in before we have had sudbury. Now we have milton welcome milton, and we’ll have to hold off on the rest of the live. Listen up until next week, so we’ll see who the live listeners are next week and next week, it’s going to be all lawyers. They’re going to stay in line, or i throw their ass is in jargon jail, it’s that simple, who writes this copy, i what i need is an intern, so i could blame for this shabby copy. If anybody knows an intern who wants that crummy job, please on twitter or facebook, let me know next week it is all lawyers first we’re starting with irs sale in aisle four o three b i’m going to say that word again because i’m pleased with that irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller is a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun and he’s going to explain the irs is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Trust me, i will keep him out of jargon jail and he’s he’s an interesting and very good natured guy, not your average lawyer. We’re gonna talk about the common mistakes in four o three b plans and what to do competition? Clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. They’re going to talk about the issues around proper compensation of your execs and others, there’s a lot to talk about there, and we’re going to a board role play also, we’re all over the social web. Amy amy sample word name a social network just name one lincoln, we’re not on lengthen. Yes, you know we are linked, and of course, we’re on the length. In group you go linked in group, you can ask the what we do there is, you can ask the asked a guest even more questions. Yes, the linked in group, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, but talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that dude is a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. 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